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Saturday, May 20, 2017

The insanity of the imperial USA

This is a solid analysis of the lunacy of US imperialism and its intrinsic weakness:
When the leader of some imperial territory or vassal acts against U.S. interests, or even just gets strong enough that they might, U.S. assets stir up “popular movements”, “moderate rebels”, and “refugee” crises, or subvert their internal operation with NGOs, diplomats, and “grassroots” activism. Or, if that isn’t working, in case we have all forgotten 2003, the U.S. military directly invades in the name of “human rights” and “democracy”, neither of which need to ever materialize for this to work. One way or another, the leader in question ends up deposed.

The occasional genocide, mass rape, persecution of Christians and actual moderate minorities, enormous expense, damage to civilization, loss of historic sites, damage to our reputation, loss of the cultural and material produce that order would bring, destabilization of regions and populations that later need to be bailed out at our own material and demographic expense, and hostile mass-migration into the lands of our own people, which are the byproducts of this indirect form of rule, are overlooked as necessary collateral damage, unfortunate random happenstance, or, when the victim is of our own white race, even celebrated.

Why does this happen? Why are we, good people most of us, caught up in an evil empire? It’s easy enough to blame traitors and Jews and the devil, but the problem goes deeper.

The root of the problem is the principles by which the empire is administered. To start with, we don’t call it an empire, we call it “the international community”, composed not of vassals, provinces, states, territories, colonies, and protectorates, but of “sovereign” “democratic” “nations”.

In other words, we don’t even have language to talk coherently about the empire, which means it’s hard to think about it; we can’t issue orders to our “sovereign” subordinates, have no widely understood imperial authority, and can’t extract straightforward imperial tax, but still have to administer an empire. So, American foreign policy grabs the next-best mechanisms available to it: rebel groups, NGOs, subversion, “human rights” and associated leverage and inconsistencies, petrodollar shenanigans, exports of easily subverted democracy, weaponized mass-migration, and so on.

The worldview attempting to govern the empire and build coherent sub-states fails, because it doesn’t dare recognize what it is actually doing, and doesn’t dare use the “enemy” methods of effective statecraft that actually work. Instead of clear rights and duties of imperial provinces, states governed by clear chains of command and authority, and open negotiation for tribute and protection, we are forced to use destructive, clandestine methods to govern our empire, which in turn create the evilness of the empire.

Obviously, the people in charge of it are the bearers and purveyors of this destructive ideology, but they are not senselessly evil; there is a twisted logic to it all that is generated from the deep structure of modern political thought. Replacing the elite would be insufficient to fix our problems without a new imperial and political ideology. Any replacement elites, though they might go in with the best of intentions, would have the same incentives and would develop the same characteristics and ideology, if the formal structure of the thing stayed the same.

If we had a different imperial ideology, it would be possible to allow the components of the empire a much greater degree of peace and leeway to do what is right, while simultaneously exerting more efficient and fine-grained control over those aspects for which it is in our interest to do so. And we would no longer have to bear the negative by-products of a destructive and evil imperial operating system.
Don't deceive yourself. The US is an empire that is held together by force and has been since 1865. The lack of a formal emperor doesn't mean that it's not an empire nor does its false veil of "democracy"; the US is observably less democratic than the Athenian and British Empires were. And the complete inability of the electorate to even acknowledge what the empire is means that it's not even possible to discuss what it should, and should not, be doing.

Moreover, the empire is divided and schizophrenic. As the author notes, this has not escaped the attention of the other two global powers, China and Russia. There is absolutely no chance either of them, or a number of the lesser powers, are going to be inclined to follow the imperial USA's lead, as it is inevitably leading to decline, collapse, and war. Indeed, if they are smart, they will gently assist the empire as it moves even deeper into self-destructive madness, in self-defense if nothing else.

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119 Comments:

Blogger Bodo Staron May 20, 2017 8:14 AM  

The other day I looked at this article on Infogalactic because Jared Taylor mentioned the story. The US forced Japan with gunboats to open up.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Perry_Expedition

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 20, 2017 8:22 AM  

Greer's "Twilight's Last Gleaming" was a credible scenario for overreach and breakup of the American Empire.

Anonymous Teapartydoc May 20, 2017 8:24 AM  

But right now the emperor is one of us. Let's hope it stays that way.

Blogger DeploraBard May 20, 2017 8:42 AM  

Note his itinerary: Saudi oil, Israeli influence, Brussels finance, Roman/Vatican religious power, then Italy for G 7 heads. No global empire here.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 20, 2017 8:43 AM  

In my youth I read a great account of the US occupation of the Philipines, written about 50 years ago by a true believer in democracy, who concluded that America had blundered into copying the European empire builders but had come to her senses and withdrawn.

It took me until my 30s to realize thst it was a change of method, not objective.

Blogger Dirtnapninja May 20, 2017 8:47 AM  

I'd be willing to bet you'll soon see chinese and russian aid flowing to the various secessionist and ethnic movements in the USA

Blogger Blunt Force May 20, 2017 8:48 AM  

Once the 10th Amendment was crushed the Federal government gained the supreme authority to move in any direction that solidified and increased it's empirical power. For the glory of the Union said General WT Sherman.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/4361/4361-h/4361-h.htm

Blogger Lazarus May 20, 2017 8:52 AM  

The author of the piece produces the solid analysis of the Empire, but begins with rejecting the idea of a balkanized America, then ends with a utopian vision.

It is like finding a pearl in a sack of garbage.

Anonymous Eric the Red May 20, 2017 8:52 AM  

It's the narrative. We can't admit to having an empire, we have to pretend that we're doing this out of the goodness of our hearts.

Blogger Lovekraft May 20, 2017 9:01 AM  

I think we're coasting on fumes as western nations are more willing to cater to Caribbean, African and Muslim voting blocs.

More like Disneyland country: the facade looks fun and bright, but underneath is sinister realities.

Blogger JWM in SD May 20, 2017 9:08 AM  

They're going to try to undermine TGE's authority and image with international leaders. I think that's part of what is happening with the attacks on Syria.

Blogger Orville May 20, 2017 9:12 AM  

Niall Ferguson as much admits we are an empire in "Colossus". However he is pro-empire. Trump ran explicitly against the empire with his "America First" platform. That is why he is going through this slow motion assassination as Scott Adam's describes it.

Blogger Johnny May 20, 2017 9:13 AM  

Well the usual: from one load of rubbish to another load of rubbish. From us all good to us all bad. Ah well...

The fact is our period of domination has produced the most prosperous and democratic global community that has ever existed. But now it is getting long in the tooth and time to pull back. So instead of glorifying ourselves we demonize ourselves to justify the pull back. As is usual; as the empire's sphere of influence declines the local tensions increase:

We are unfortunately duplicitous in what is going on in Arabia, but that would be happening anyway. Now that Turkish power is gone and British power is gone and American power is declining, the old race and religious animosities are stirring up.

Now that China is more powerful and our ability to dominate less, the whole South China Sea thing is stirring up with China extending its power over the region.

Unfortunately we are also duplicitous in stirring up tensions between Russia and the Ukraine, but that would be going on anyway. Left overs from the previous Tsar-ist empire along with Stalin's race mixing policies have produced endless possibilities for conflict. The best that can be had would be to avoid conflict with the more independent Eastern European nations. Perhaps that can be accomplished.

As for Latin America; a disorganized mess before we came and well remain so without our assist. And Black Africa hardly bears mention. Not really nation states but feuding tribes.

As for us and Europe, we don't need foreign influence. We are screwing ourselves up all by our lonesome. It is a cultural thing.

Anonymous Philalethes May 20, 2017 9:27 AM  

The author of the piece produces the solid analysis of the Empire, but begins with rejecting the idea of a balkanized America, then ends with a utopian vision.

An excellent analysis, yes; thanks for discovering this. Hope it gets around.

I don't particularly want my country to be a World Power – "power corrupts" and all that – but I have to admit he makes a good case against balkanization of the U.S. If this country splits into a bunch of mutually antagonistic small countries, and the Empire crumbles, that will leave, as he says, only two real Powers on the planet. Which is a pretty unstable situation.

Three major Powers, seems to me, would be better for the world as a whole. Like it or not, given human nature there will always be struggles for dominance, but a complex ecosystem is always healthier than a very simple one – where if something goes wrong, the results are necessarily catastrophic.

And, though Russia seems not to have imperial ambitions at the moment, I'm afraid that, again given human nature, such ambitions would surface if an opportunity appeared. Moscow is clearly the capital of Orwell's Eurasia.

The author seems like kind of an intelligent neocon; he's given me something to think about. From this perspective, I can even see the European Union – the idea of it at least, if not the execution – as a good thing: an attempt to create a fourth World-level Power, which could have added more balance and stability to the world system. Unfortunately, if predictably, human greed sabotaged its potential. Although the breakup of the EU is generally applauded here, I have to wonder if the end result might not be more intra-European wars such as those which exhausted Europe in the last century.

Latin America would seem to be another potential power center, but it looks like its tropical demographics – like Africa's – simply make that impossible. Note that the three Great Powers are all centered in the northern temperate zone – China extends to the subtropical region, but is ruled from the north (Beijing, in fact, translates as "Northern Capital").

Blogger Johnny May 20, 2017 9:29 AM  

@7 Blunt Force

I have been reading about the American Civil War. What a crock that was. And it could either have been avoided or made a much less damaging by delay. The South was losing ground no matter what happened. Slavery was not all that viable an institution.

As for Honest Abe, he was a mixture of usually good intentions along with wanting to please everybody. Unfortunately his judgment was less than sound and he aggravated the situation.

Blogger VD May 20, 2017 9:30 AM  

The fact is our period of domination has produced the most prosperous and democratic global community that has ever existed.

Translation: bigger credit boom. Debt-spending is not prosperity. And justifying empire because good empire does not make it any less an empire, or any less likely to go the way of all empires in time.

Blogger ZhukovG May 20, 2017 9:33 AM  

I have always said, that even without our stupid foreign adventures, the American Union constitutes a multi-national empire. Currently we make the 1918 Austro-Hungarian Empire appear a monolith of stability by comparison.

We will fragment. But will we remain fragmented? I believe the Southern, Midwestern and Rocky Mountain West folks(White) have enough in common to forge a US successor state. If this state develops revanchist policies it could remake the Union by force.

This would be made more likely if atrocities were being committed against traditionalist Whites in other nation-states that rise from the ruins of the American Union. It will be further more likely if those other nation-states are seen as hostile to the US successor state.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 20, 2017 9:34 AM  

The fact is our period of domination has produced the most prosperous and democratic global community that has ever existed.

If you want to look at real prosperity, pax Britannia easily defeats pax Americana.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 20, 2017 9:38 AM  

I believe the Southern, Midwestern and Rocky Mountain West folks(White) have enough in common to forge a US successor state. If this state develops revanchist policies it could remake the Union by force.

The Midwest is German and Scandinavian. The South is English and Scots Irish.

OpenID paworldandtimes May 20, 2017 9:41 AM  

our period of domination has produced the most prosperous and democratic global community that has ever existed.

Strip-mining human capital is not prosperity. It's fission that releases energy and leaves behind radioactive waste.

PA

Blogger The Other Robot May 20, 2017 9:42 AM  

Can we expect the empire to bomb Vienna if the Austrians take the expected direction in October?

Blogger ZhukovG May 20, 2017 9:43 AM  

@Josh: Exactly, the British Empire improved the standard of living for people in her colonial possessions. She may be the only Empire that had colonial possession gain independence only to then ask to return to colonial status (Newfoundland).

In fact I seem to recall a recent poll in Jamaica where the majority of respondents expressed a desire to return to British colonial status.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd May 20, 2017 9:44 AM  

Dirtnapninja wrote:I'd be willing to bet you'll soon see chinese and russian aid flowing to the various secessionist and ethnic movements in the USA

Can we place advance orders? I'd like an RPD and a PKM, please.

Johnny wrote:The fact is our period of domination has produced the most prosperous and democratic global community that has ever existed.

``Democratic global community'' has proven to be a very bad thing. No surprise: ``democratic'' and ``global'' are both bad on their own.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 20, 2017 9:44 AM  


The author of the piece produces the solid analysis of the Empire, but begins with rejecting the idea of a balkanized America, then ends with a utopian vision.

It is like finding a pearl in a sack of garbage


Yeah, the conclusion is peak full retard:

Our vision is a Restoration at home in America to rebuild the unity and strength of America along traditional reactionary lines. Then to formalize the American empire as a true empire, so that it may be governed efficiently and responsibly. With that in hand, use our resulting much stronger negotiating position and newfound philosophical commonality with Christian and reactionary Russia to negotiate a tight alliance. Together with our Russian brothers, negotiate an honored but subordinate position for China and all other sub-civilizations and nations, forming the unified Empire of Man before going on to conquer the stars.

Blogger Johnny May 20, 2017 9:45 AM  

@19. Josh (the gayest thing here)

If you want to look at real prosperity, pax Britannia easily defeats pax Americana.

The Brits did a good job running their empire, but our fault or happenstance, nothing comes close to the material progress that was made during the 20th century. Nothing even remotely close.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( forgive us of our baiting, as we forgive those who bait against us ) May 20, 2017 9:45 AM  

13. Johnny May 20, 2017 9:13 AM
and democratic



a - not a good thing, MPAI. by asserting so, you mark yourself as being of the Progressive Left.

b - not a principle of the Founding Fathers

c - however the local governments are administered is irrelevant to whether or not they must kowtow to the US. and i find it hilarious that you assert that they have 'democracy' ... and at the same time that we are often disrupting their governments and throwing them into civil wars when that 'democracy' produces results that displease the American commissars.

so much for your exaltation of 'democratic principles'.



13. Johnny May 20, 2017 9:13 AM
As for Latin America; a disorganized mess before we came and well remain so without our assist.



true for some, false for many.

Cuba and Argentina used to be leading economies with per capita GDP almost in 1st world rankings. gosh, i'm sure glad we gave aid to Castro.

Anonymous crushlimbraw May 20, 2017 9:46 AM  

The author does a good job of explaining the present conundrum, but did not outline how we got here except from the political angle.
Breitbart long ago said politics is downstream from culture, which itself is downstream from our education system and media - all of them now controlled by the Left or Blue Empire.
Antonio Gramsci anyone? And it took well over 100 years - but by golly - they succeeded maybe even beyond AG's dreams!
So why don't we do what was done to us?
Since the church (churchianity) fell asleep long ago, I propose that we begin a process of 'leavening' that produces mentors in our families, churches and communities - and in 100 years (or sooner with God's grace) we'll git'er done, eh? I'm serious - you can read the rest at my website. You might not agree with my plan - but it's better than sitting on our back pillows.

Blogger James Dixon May 20, 2017 9:46 AM  

> I'd be willing to bet you'll soon see chinese and russian aid flowing to the various secessionist and ethnic movements in the USA

That's to be expected. If it speeds the breakup or makes it less violent, that's probably a good thing.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd May 20, 2017 9:49 AM  

Vox, this article sounds like what Jerry Pournelle has been saying for a long time: the US is an incompetent empire.

Anonymous BBGKB May 20, 2017 9:53 AM  

It’s easy enough to blame traitors and Jews and the devil, but the problem goes deeper

I thought you couldn't go any deeper than that

Any replacement elites, though they might go in with the best of intentions, would have the same incentives and would develop the same characteristics and ideology

There is that every lottery winner will end up snorting cocaine off of kids argument.

The author seems like kind of an intelligent neocon;

That would be one who doesn't admit their favorite song is "onward Christian soldiers" while waving Israel's flag

Note that the three Great Powers are all centered in the northern temperate zone

There is very little land in the southern temperate zone. The farthest you can go in Africa from the equator on either side is the same growing zone as Florida.

Blogger ZhukovG May 20, 2017 9:57 AM  

@Josh(19): I speak from time living in these various regions and serving in the Military with people from these regions.

I observed, in the military, that Black, White and Latin servicemen tended to self segregate. Rarely did close friendships develop across these boundaries. However it was very common for close friendships to develop among Whites even from very different regions of the country.

Blogger Bellguard May 20, 2017 10:03 AM  

So do you believe the solution is a total embrace of autocracy at this point? Do you believe it is impossible to truly return to the founding ideals of Pre-Civil War?

Blogger pnq8787 May 20, 2017 10:07 AM  

With regard to post #6 is anyone on our side making contact and alliances with the Russians and Chinese. It may be a good idea to get ahead of the game. Better to be on the side getting supplied than the side getting massacred.

OpenID paworldandtimes May 20, 2017 10:13 AM  

making contact and alliances with the Russians and Chinese

The Empire's absurd promotion of sexual deviancy and violent dark-skinned people in recent years gives our side a solid starting point in any coming negotiations.

While the globohomo empire ma look like it's crushing and humiliating its opposition, it in reality is self-sabotaging.

PA

Blogger allyn71 May 20, 2017 10:23 AM  

Yeah, the conclusion is peak full retard:

Our vision is a Restoration at home in America to rebuild the unity and strength of America along traditional reactionary lines. Then to formalize the American empire as a true empire, so that it may be governed efficiently and responsibly. With that in hand, use our resulting much stronger negotiating position and newfound philosophical commonality with Christian and reactionary Russia to negotiate a tight alliance. Together with our Russian brothers, negotiate an honored but subordinate position for China and all other sub-civilizations and nations, forming the unified Empire of Man before going on to conquer the stars.

Yep, you beat me to it but that statement nullifies whatever nuggets there might have been in the rest.

Last paragraph is a neocon's wet dream.

Blogger VD May 20, 2017 10:23 AM  

Vox, this article sounds like what Jerry Pournelle has been saying for a long time: the US is an incompetent empire.

Not THAT incompetent. The elite financial class has done very, very well out of it.

So do you believe the solution is a total embrace of autocracy at this point? Do you believe it is impossible to truly return to the founding ideals of Pre-Civil War?

I don't know what the solution is. Yes, it is obviously impossible to return to the ideals of the Founders; their nation no longer exists thanks to immigration, adulteration, and faux assimilation.

Blogger John Lamb May 20, 2017 10:26 AM  

This is because the liberal philosophy the USA is built on is incoherent. Law & Authority are the foundation of political society, not Liberty & individual Rights.

Blogger John Lamb May 20, 2017 10:30 AM  

@35 It's not that stupid. The return of a Christian emperor - the Holy Roman Emperor - is exactly what is needed to save the West.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 20, 2017 10:30 AM  

It has always been too late for the US because it is not a nation.

Driving this point home is slow-going for people who grew up saluting to "One Nation Under God," and even defending that idea from the Left because of the "Under God" part.

If you think back to how it all started, there were a group of pre-existing States that formed a loose confederation for common defense. Even though they were nearly all of the same racial stock at that point, they saw themselves as quite different from each other, and wanted to maintain that independence.

Then, for reasons probably having to do with hubris, bad ideas floating across from the Revolution across the pond, and some ideas symbolized on the dollar bill, they decided to turn their loose confederation into a tighter Union. It wasn't an easy sell, because as similar as 18th century Virginians and Vermonters might look to our eyes, they didn't think they were the same at all. But the unifiers pulled it off, partly by assuring them the States would still do the bulk of the ruling.

As other States were added, many were created for the primary purpose of joining this union, so they didn't have the same internal cohesion and background of independence. They were subordinate provinces from the start, rather than independent nations that had decided to join a group of others. And then the War settled whether the States really had any independence after all.

By the time we were all growing up, this was all a done deal, and every American school child stood with his hand over his heart to recite the Pledge every day, so we came to think of the US as "One Nation" "from sea to shining sea." But saying something doesn't make it so. It's still -- in fact, even more so now than ever -- a collection of nations (whether divided on State borders or other lines) held together by a central governing body, for reasons that are becoming outdated and counter-productive. The Redcoats aren't coming anymore, and neither are the Reds. Common defense doesn't require an imperial Union anyway. So we're sticking together and paying for Leviathan for....what exactly? How many Americans would have an answer to that question?

Blogger Esmar Tuek May 20, 2017 10:32 AM  

I read somewhere that the British empire was administered by about 5000 civil servants. That's roughly equivalent to the number employed to administer the local job centre nowadays.

Blogger allyn71 May 20, 2017 10:37 AM  

@38 John Lamb: It's not that stupid. The return of a Christian emperor - the Holy Roman Emperor - is exactly what is needed to save the West.

If a Holy Roman Emperor comes to power forming the unified Empire of Man before going on to conquer the stars. you better get right with God. Think there is book out there that talks about this and the evil that will be let loose on that day.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 20, 2017 10:42 AM  

"Indirect mthods."

Evil grows best in darkness.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 20, 2017 10:43 AM  

@41. Good point, that sounds a heck of a lot more like perhaps The Dragon than anything else.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 20, 2017 10:44 AM  

Logic dictates that an "Empire of Debt" should establish records in its speed of dissolution when the party's over.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 20, 2017 10:47 AM  

Replacing the elite would be insufficient to fix our problems without a new imperial and political ideology.

America is an empire, not a colony or low-population state of Puritans. To think we can return to those golden 1776 years of post-Revolution glory is a romantic and unrealistic idea.

If this power, this place--America--is to survive, then it needs to be recognized differently than a quaint offshoot of England. I think this is where many on the Right err.

Either America becomes something new, or we get war and a fractured continent.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 20, 2017 10:55 AM  

Yes, it is obviously impossible to return to the ideals of the Founders; their nation no longer exists thanks to immigration, adulteration, and faux assimilation.

Vox, this sounds to me like how communists might talk. For example: "Sure, we failed with the Soviet Union, and Cuba might not be that great, but if conditions were better, our workers paradise could succeed!" How is this thinking any different?

Blogger VD May 20, 2017 11:02 AM  

How is this thinking any different?

Entirely. The Founders' nation actually existed. The Workers' paradise never did. Moreover, I am saying a return to it is impossible. The Communists claimed that it was inevitable.

Not only is the thinking different, it is the exact opposite, twice over.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 20, 2017 11:09 AM  

The return of a Christian emperor - the Holy Roman Emperor - is exactly what is needed to save the West.

This form of larping is even less of a non starter than Nazi larping.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 20, 2017 11:22 AM  

Would you say that the early Americans achieved their City on a Hill at some point before the Civil War?

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 20, 2017 11:33 AM  

It is like finding a pearl in a sack of garbage.

Agreed. I wouldn't put it that extreme but the author rather ended up unwittingly proving his own point. The non-existent empire with an imperium which cannot be named. The Empire of Brokeback Wind.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 20, 2017 11:38 AM  

Better yet, how about "The Empire of Fake"? You have fake education, fake money, fake news, fake democracies, fake countries, fake grassroots, fake Christians, fake charities, fake compassion, fake music, fake art, fake sports -- the list is endless.

Anonymous glosoli May 20, 2017 11:39 AM  

It's not just the elites that have done well out of the Empire.
US citizens have collectively lived beyond their means by many trillion over the past c. 50 years, thanks to Volcker's clever plan to cajole the rest of the world to accept USTs as reserves (heh, so stupid ROW).

But the world had nothing else to switch to back then, it was the dollar, or global trade would have dried up.

But the deal to buy USTs is over now, and settlement lies ahead, for any nation that is indebted.

The neocons know exactly why they destabilised the MENA over the years: to keep the oil price high. Saudi/Iranian oil costs less than $10 a barrel. But cheap oil = no demand for eurodollars, and the US ship sinks. Eurodollar balances have been shrinking since the middle of 2014. The BIS/Russian/Saudi/Chinese alliance has pushed the button, they are just sat waiting for the US to sink now.

Solution going forward: small homogeneous nations, small is beautiful. No empires, no Kings, no democracy, just small tribes (city states) and their God. It is a dream though, maybe it will be reality post WW3?

Blogger DonReynolds May 20, 2017 11:45 AM  

@1 Bodo Staron
"The other day I looked at this article on Infogalactic because Jared Taylor mentioned the story. The US forced Japan with gunboats to open up."

Bodo....did you happen to notice who was Secretary of War under President Pierce, ostensibly the person who gave orders to the US Navy for the two expeditions to open trade to Japan?

I will save you the lookup.....Jefferson Davis.

Blogger Elocutioner May 20, 2017 11:53 AM  

"The US is an empire" = "Dems are the real racists."

"we don’t even have language to talk coherently about the empire"

We need to define it. The left benefits in maintaining the charade that we're not. And you won't convince the Muh Constitution types because they're stuck on original definitions and their conception of pre-WWII empires.

One World Government is closer but has been subverted via mockery of "conspiracy theorists." The puppet masters are a shadow cabal. I don't think it's fair to say the US is an empire, we're just the largest and most powerful piece on the board, but we're still mostly just a vassal state to their globalist parasites who would just move on once we've served their purposes. An empire rules, we're being ruled.

Blogger Elder Son May 20, 2017 11:59 AM  

Bye-bye West. You are a has-been. Who no longer shares the same ancestors, language, religion, principles, manners, and customs. It has become nothing but a confused mixture of sounds and voices of tumult, turmoil, uproar, bedlam, and clamor.

Trump signs a 350 Billion arms package with Sunni/Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. The Sunni/Wahhabi Coalition is building a Sunni/Wahhabi "NATO" with Trumps support. What could go wrong?

The best metaphor, is a hook in the jaw.

Blogger Elder Son May 20, 2017 12:02 PM  

We need to define it.

Satans spearhead?

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 20, 2017 12:16 PM  

"Return to the Founder's vision" is an insanely suicidal notion anyhow, unless you are a) about 100% British b) will dissolve the Imperial Union and c) are beginning a mass deportation of the East Coast and a reconquest of the Western territories.

When the first current politician who comes to mind when I say "brilliant Constitutional legal mind" is Ted Cuba-Canadian Cruz...you KNOW the Day of the Document is dead, if it ever lived at all.

Blogger Stephen Davenport May 20, 2017 12:26 PM  

Ok, umm, weird post Vox, looks like you are heading to the deep end of the pool over there in Italy.

Blogger Bellguard May 20, 2017 12:30 PM  

@Stephen

I wouldn't say that at all. The only part I disagree with is the United States approaching collapse on the level he seems to think.

That being said, major reformation IS required here. The argument is about which change would be the best.

Anonymous BBGKB May 20, 2017 12:37 PM  

Trump signs a 350 Billion arms package with Sunni/Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. The Sunni/Wahhabi Coalition is building a Sunni/Wahhabi "NATO" with Trumps support. What could go wrong?

Saudi Arabia's rulers more afraid of their own generals than any external threat.

Blogger Elder Son May 20, 2017 12:41 PM  

No. It isn't suicidal. It just requires vast amounts of bloodshed. And brutality. And accepting the reality that you may die in the quest.

But then, if the "freedomistas" were given a golden platter heaping with freedom and liberty, it would react with horror, run around in circles screaming and shouting like it was holding a hot potato, throw it down the toilet, plug the toilet, then blame freedom and liberty for plugging the toilet.

Let's face it. Americans like to talk about all this freedom and liberty stuff, get outraged at the government, and talk and talk and talk and make "plans", but it isn't willing to actually do what is necessary to reclaim its freedom and liberty. This is all just spectator sports stuff. Cause it's exciting, and intellectual. And masturbatory.

And, when/if the stink happens, you won't be fighting for anything other than survival, like dogs.

But first, a major war. So the freedom and liberty plebes can get out their dusty flags and chant USA Bigly!

Blogger Flair1239 May 20, 2017 12:42 PM  

In Minnesota, we view Southern Whites as lazy and impulsive.

If the US does balkanize, and I agree that it is likely, the geographic areas will be smaller. I read an article yesterday about an Austrian town that is not going to accept Muslim immigrants. I think that is what we will see in the US. Counties and Townships will start defying state and Federal mandates.

At that point, the State is left with very few non-violent options. You see this happening on the left with Sanctuary Cities. How long is it before a school district upper midwest, decides that they will no longer push the indoctrination mandated by the Federal and State authorities.

I think we will see a gradual devolution of power back to the local level. However, I am also assuming that the military will not carry out an order to attack fellow Americans. That may just be wishful thinking.

Blogger Elder Son May 20, 2017 12:42 PM  

@60

Well. That certainly was stupid.

Blogger Bodo Staron May 20, 2017 12:42 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:@1

Bodo....did you happen to notice who was Secretary of War under President Pierce, ostensibly the person who gave orders to the US Navy for the two expeditions to open trade to Japan?

I will save you the lookup.....Jefferson Davis.



I don't know the significance of this. Could you elaborate please?

Blogger DonReynolds May 20, 2017 12:43 PM  

Always excellent comments here, most especially @39 Cail Corishev.

If I were tasked with the job of selling this to ordinary American citizens, not nearly as bright as Vox or as well-read as many of the good people who comment, I would have to put it in terms they CAN understand. Ordinary people do not know what EMPIRE means. Most certainly, what they have been taught in school or seen in the movies of ancient empires, does not connect to any modern reality.

The ancient empire builders were not stupid. They were organized and specialized and were prepared for the work. They made mistakes, human failures, but they made empire a very profitable idea. Most especially, empire worked well because somebody was in charge. The "elect" and aristocratic elements could debate in public and write clever laws, but none of it meant much until the one in charge added his ring and hot wax.

Unity of purpose was an essential element for empire building, and that is what is missing today. There is no unity of purpose, there is nobody in charge, and (borrowed) resources are being spent in a big way on projects and activities that do not have a positive return at all. If this is an empire, it is an empire of chaos....it is irrational and constantly distracted by an endless stream of nonsense. It is like the Land of Oz. It behaves like a disjointed bureaucracy, with petty fiefdoms, and nutty notions about respecting cross-dressers and whether little girls are allowed to attend school in other countries, and whether we should fret about global warming that might occur centuries in the future. All this while the "empire" is being invaded by barbarians and savages....well, they think they are invading, but our own government has been inviting them for decades. That would make our government (and NGOs) into Quislings.

This is already too long, so I will not tire everyone with any forecast, except to say that I agree with the consensus opinion that the present situation is unsustainable and has no future. There is no auto-correct and it will not be returning to any sort of equilibrium. Due to the present chaos, I do not see any sort of correction or repair in an orderly, deliberate, or rational way.

Blogger Elocutioner May 20, 2017 12:47 PM  

@Elder Son

Baal's Cabal?

Blogger Bellguard May 20, 2017 12:50 PM  

Some days I wish the U.S. would simply drop its pretense and simply declare itself an empire. But one, that is unlikely. And two, that may yield much more harm than good at this point in time.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 20, 2017 1:21 PM  

Thank you for posting Vox. I notice the author didn't even attempt to comment on how to resolve the conflict between the 'Red' and 'Blue' empires, which due to the nature of the Left is impossible through negotiation and compromise and therefore won't even be theoretically possible until the Alt-Right generation can overcome the Boomers' political influence.

At any rate, an honest American Empire is impossible for many reasons, the most important of which is that this American Empire is a specifically Yankee Empire. To be honest is to admit that the Empire's founding history is fake and therefore its moral legitimacy is a lie. It's as much a pipe dream as American National Socialism.

This is why the dissolution of the Yankee Empire ("balkanization") is the best case scenario, perhaps followed by the formation of one or more sets defensive confederacies.

Blogger Lucas May 20, 2017 1:27 PM  

And female vote.

Anonymous map May 20, 2017 1:56 PM  

Balkinization is not workable. The first thing California will do if it balkanizes is get invaded by Mexico. The second thing it will do is invite Chinese bases.

Every leftist entity that forms will make plans to invade the non-leftist entity. You simply cannot share territory or even borders with leftists.

The solution is to make the same observation about America that Lenin made about Russia: the nation is ruled by a handful of elites. Remove and replace the elites and you will go a long way to solve the problem.

Anonymous User May 20, 2017 2:21 PM  

Vox, what exactly makes debt spending bad? I agree with the obvious assessment that the current system is mismanaged by crooks, but that doesn't make the system itself bad. Double entry book keeping (including modern descendants) is a good way of tracking obligations in a somewhat resilient way. What really matters though is real activity, like industry, fertility, and creating beauty.

Blogger VD May 20, 2017 2:25 PM  

Vox, what exactly makes debt spending bad?

Skews the supply-demand curve by artificially inflating demand, thereby causing the misallocation of resources.

Anonymous User May 20, 2017 2:31 PM  

Which of your economics books should I read to get a general overview of your understanding?

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 20, 2017 2:39 PM  

Which of your economics books should I read to get a general overview of your understanding?

Return of the Great Depression.

Also, check the blog archives for the Great inflation deflation debate.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club May 20, 2017 2:58 PM  

what exactly makes debt spending bad?

Every government ever has spent every cent they can get their mitts on, and debt spending lets them spend cents that haven't even been produced yet.

Blogger DonReynolds May 20, 2017 3:43 PM  

@70 map
"Balkinization is not workable."

You are wrong to believe that something is unworkable because you do not like it.
WHEN the breakup occurs in this country, it will not be considered voluntary or elective, it will be the last choice. There will be no other choices.

To that end, Balkanization is inevitable, no matter how much blood or treasure you are willing to spend opposing it....and that end will be the result, for either side. Neither will be strong enough to completely defeat the other. Just a question of how much you want to bleed and burn in order to arrive at the same conclusion.

I had rather hope that we can skip a pointless civil war and both sides simply agree to go their separate ways, respecting common borders. The South is mentally prepared, having a history and regional identity, to go it alone. What will they do in Idaho, or Utah, or Indiana, or Vermont? They will do whatever they choose to do, just as we will, but that will not include a long bloody struggle to force the rest of the states to rejoin yet another version of the United States.

I agree that the Leftist cannot imagine sharing this continent with people not under their command, but I also know they are a tiny fraction of the ordinary people. They cannot take on a third or half of the country with any hope of success and their most determined efforts to mobilize Negro and Hispanic legions will only motivate their opponents. Charles Manson and his Helter Skelter will seem like a rational plan compared to the idea of white Leftists leading armies of Negroes and Hispanics invading the South.
Slave revolts had a better chance of success.

Blogger JWM in SD May 20, 2017 3:43 PM  

"what exactly makes debt spending bad?"

Or to put it another way, it artificially pulls demand forward by allowing for purchase before earning the necessary capital. It's that mechanism which causes distortion in pricing.

Blogger Alan Gould May 20, 2017 3:44 PM  

Was reading over Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War the other day, and was particularly struck by the directness of oration; emissaries addressed allied, rival and even enemy City States not with appeals to rash passion or through filters of saccharine or vicious propaganda, but rather by appeals to reason. Respective strategic necessities were acknowledged, and sophistry and rhetoric gave way to discussion of statecraft and game theory, the principles of which were fully understood and clearly enunciated. Neither side went into that war under any illusions about the causes or consequences of conflict. Yet these humane, reasoned, closely related peoples still razed each other's cities to the ground and put whole populations to the sword.

To contemplate what will surely take place when the current western nations are compelled by necessity to act according to principles they do not understand, in situations which they lack even the concepts to describe, using weapons whose destructive capability is so vast as to be near-unimaginable...

Well, it's shit-your-pants terrifying.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 20, 2017 3:46 PM  


Skews the supply-demand curve by artificially inflating demand, thereby causing the misallocation of resources.


And it amplifies high time preference behavior, producing a populace of permanent children who live in the Perpetual Now, which exacerbates every social pathology imaginable.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 20, 2017 3:50 PM  

The argument is about which change would be the best.

No, the argument is how to best prepare and how to mitigate. The nature of the change and the destination are already baked into the cake, and have been since at least the 1960s.

what exactly makes debt spending bad?
Government debt is backed by the income of the populace. In other words, government borrows by promising to enslave the people.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 20, 2017 3:51 PM  

Every government ever has spent every cent they can get their mitts on, and debt spending lets them spend cents that haven't even been produced yet.

No. No one can buy (spending cents) that which has not yet been produced. This is a critical distinction.

Debt-enabled spending simply disguises OVER-CONSUMPTION of the present. We are living in a period of unprecedented capital consumption, like farmers who feed the seed corn to the pigs.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 20, 2017 3:54 PM  

WHEN the breakup occurs in this country, it will not be considered voluntary or elective, it will be the last choice. There will be no other choices.
There is one other choice. It's worse than breakup. Let's pray no-one attempts it.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 20, 2017 3:57 PM  

Debt-based spending pulls vast power into the hands of the individuals who control it; it elevates the political sphere to Olympian heights at the expense of civil society; it causes individuals, responding to demand-pull, to structure their lives around an inorganic, unsustainable and imbalanced economic structure and results in a brittle condition whose inevitable end must entail massive hardship.

Anonymous Grayman May 20, 2017 4:14 PM  

My understanding of history would suggest that the major events and pathway are already determined regardless of our inability to understand the outcome of our decisions over the last 30 years.
The collective "we" can debate things all we want but the major course of events has already been set in motion

Blogger Alan Gould May 20, 2017 4:53 PM  

@Grayman
One of the best pieces ever written on the process of history and of decline is actually a poem: 'The Good Town', by Edwin Muir.

Read it and shiver.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable May 20, 2017 5:05 PM  

Philalethes wrote:I don't particularly want my country to be a World Power – "power corrupts" and all that – but I have to admit he makes a good case against balkanization of the U.S. If this country splits into a bunch of mutually antagonistic small countries, and the Empire crumbles, that will leave, as he says, only two real Powers on the planet. Which is a pretty unstable situation.

That is intellectually incoherent. A false dichotomy. Repeal of the parts of the Reconstruction Amendments that gave the Fed more power over the sovereign States would be sufficient to end the Empire, both inside and out, while remaining a Great Power.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 20, 2017 5:19 PM  

In other words, the lies that enabled the US' worldwide power grab have caught up with us because we've collectively made the classic mistake of believing our own bullshit.

Blogger liberranter May 20, 2017 5:32 PM  

And the complete inability of the electorate to even acknowledge what the empire is means that it's not even possible to discuss what it should, and should not, be doing.

Indeed. The ultimate "boobocracy," to cite Mencken.

Blogger Billy Ray May 20, 2017 6:53 PM  

so you alt right types hate American imperialism but cheer when the american empire bombs Syria and you want the empire you supposedly hate to bomb Iran and the norks... oh, right, alt right hypocrisy in action, got it

Blogger Montrose May 20, 2017 7:14 PM  

Culture is downstream from genetics. The media and educational culture is leftist because of ethnic composition.

Anonymous Mr Hyde May 20, 2017 7:39 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:so you alt right types hate American imperialism but cheer when the american empire bombs Syria and you want the empire you supposedly hate to bomb Iran and the norks... oh, right, alt right hypocrisy in action, got it

You poasted this on the wrong blog, Bill Mitchell is over there...

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable May 20, 2017 8:41 PM  

Billy Ray... You appear to have mistaken us for establishment "conservatives". Do you know what "alt" means? That is a serious question; your assumptions indicate that you don't.

Blogger Lazarus May 20, 2017 9:18 PM  

map wrote:Balkinization is not workable. The first thing California will do if it balkanizes is get invaded by Mexico.

No. The only states that can separate are ones not overwhelmed with Federal military installations. The Feds will not let Mexico have the ports of LA and San Diego. Don't be sily.

Blogger Lazarus May 20, 2017 9:18 PM  

add an "l"

Blogger Lazarus May 20, 2017 9:27 PM  

I hope someday Billy Ray stops being so screwed up. I think he is probably an alt-right guy deep down, but just not clued in yet.

Or, conversely, just another casualty in the panorama of the march of history.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 20, 2017 9:53 PM  

St. Bellamarine once said that there are three forms of government: democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. Though he admits people ought to be free to choose their government, he does have preferences.

When things are more tight-knit and under control, it may be that democracy works best. Monarchy should be chosen for when there is chaos, and things need to be better controlled. (If all three forms of government are utilized to one degree or another, aristocracy should be used as a go-between democracy and monarchy, though, there's always the danger of an aristocracy turning into an oligarchy.)

Aquinas believed monarchy was the best choice.

Like I've said, America is too big and insane NOT to be run like an empire. Unfortunately, the US is being run in many ways like a money laundering country club.

I imagine when we get to "Book of Eli" levels, the people will be desparate for a leader who will guide their populace for the full term of his life.

Until then, we get to play games.

Anonymous Homer Williamson III May 20, 2017 10:03 PM  

While you are right that in many ways the modern USA is an empire held together by force, your claim that "the US is observably less democratic than the Athenian and British Empires were" is demonstrably false, owing to the fact that the British Empire at its height was a worldwide empire held together by force in the same way that the USA is today, but on top of that, the British Empire was also headed by a hereditary monarch (the head of state was not elected, as it is here in the US - and as we see with the election of Trump, having a democratically elected head of state gives the possibility - however slight - that someone will be elected that is completely outside the "system.") Thus, the British Empire was NOT more democratic than the modern United States.

Blogger Scott Birch May 20, 2017 10:16 PM  

Billy Ray, alt-right does not mean what you think it means.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 20, 2017 10:25 PM  

@Homer,
You mistake formal structure for reality. The Queen has and had no political power she is/was able to exercise. The British equivalent to the president is the Prime Minister, not the Queen.

Anonymous Anonymous May 20, 2017 10:37 PM  

"The Queen has and had no political power she is/was able to exercise."

Kind of a shame. I find that warrior women like a bit of a turn on. Just sayin'.

Anonymous polarbearballs May 20, 2017 10:55 PM  

So many interesting comments (and the original article was thought-provoking). Lots of better brains here--but what does anyone think about the possibility that the world turns COMPLETELY racial and we wind up with some weird conglomeration of, for example, the WHITE STATE, comprising much of Russia, Canada, the US and...yes, even parts of Latin America, the white nations of Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, and Costa Rica?

I don't pose this as something to occur in 20 years, maybe 30-50...including Mars or anywhere else. Could their be a WHITE SUPERSTATE out of necessity (given that WE are the minority on the planet).

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 20, 2017 11:03 PM  

Could their be a WHITE SUPERSTATE out of necessity (given that WE are the minority on the planet).
Sure, as soon as you tell me how to force the Germans, French, English, Irish and Russians to get along together.
Or Yankees and Southrons, for that matter.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable May 20, 2017 11:24 PM  

@polarbearballs -- Short answer, no.

Longer answer, only an American could even imagine such a thing, because we're under so much pressure from racists that lump us all together and heap prejudice, scorn, slander, and institutionalized discrimination on us all the same.

Leftists failed to learn from American history -- presumably because they're fake Americans with a Dunning-Kruger understanding of it -- and created a singular White identity in much the same way that our country's singular Black identity was forged.

And it's actually quite recent, within my lifetime. I remember when I used to think of myself as part this, that and the other thing; now all that matters is that I have some Unhyphenated-American ancestors, and all of me is despised the same by all the right enemies.

Absent those external pressures, "White" doesn't even exist as an ethnicity. And your list isn't even linguistically coherent, which is necessary to a shared culture (but not sufficient -- viz. black culture).

But on the other hand, and for the same reasons, I believe that our foreign policy will undertake a re-re-alignment to focusing on the Anglosphere, specifically the high-trust relationship of the Five Eyes.

And on the gripping hand, your mental model is too uniform (which implies centralism). The future will be either subsidiarity, or blood flowing in the streets like a river from those who would rather die would-be masters than do for themselves, and those who would rather die free than live as serfs.

Anonymous Bubbahotep May 20, 2017 11:39 PM  

Plenty of scots Irish in Ohio and PA

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 20, 2017 11:46 PM  

An empire needs an emperor.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 20, 2017 11:50 PM  

@105

Yup. A lifetime monarch. Lifetime, so that the empire has stability.

And that emperor requires a religion and a culture, so that the people have something to rally behind.

I've argued this before.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 21, 2017 12:09 AM  

map wrote:Balkinization is not workable.

The fact that American balkanization will have terrible global consequences is irrelevant. Unless there is a realistic plan (which there is not) to renegotiate the balance of power between Yankees/Southeners/blacks/non-Americans/leftists, the Yankee Empire will dissolve. You had best stop complaining about a Chinese invasion and prepare for it.

And the problem is not the elites. It's not even, so much, the xenos, whose mass immigration is just a symptom. The problem is the impossible contradiction between Yankee supremacy and American principles. That cognitive dissonance is what enabled all this. If only the Yankees had been honest imperialists, eh?

If you want an American Empire, Yankee supremacy has got to stay intact. Good luck with that.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 21, 2017 12:22 AM  

polarbearballs wrote:So many interesting comments (and the original article was thought-provoking). Lots of better brains here--but what does anyone think about the possibility that the world turns COMPLETELY racial and we wind up with some weird conglomeration of, for example, the WHITE STATE, comprising much of Russia, Canada, the US and...yes, even parts of Latin America, the white nations of Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, and Costa Rica?

I don't pose this as something to occur in 20 years, maybe 30-50...including Mars or anywhere else. Could their be a WHITE SUPERSTATE out of necessity (given that WE are the minority on the planet).


1. States are formed in response to a national threat. Brown people are not a threat to any white nation due to the problem of average IQ. Period. Other white nations are a threat. So are Asians.

2. Race is not nationality, and nationality is not race.

So no white superstate.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 21, 2017 12:44 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 21, 2017 1:17 AM  

One more thing.

Bellguard: So do you believe the solution is a total embrace of autocracy at this point? Do you believe it is impossible to truly return to the founding ideals of Pre-Civil War?

VD: I don't know what the solution is


Okay. This is my opinion. Feel free to disagree. I think the solution is to continue talking about America as an empire, and raise the awareness of people and an acceptability of this issue. The government needs to change if it is to survive, and Americans have a phobia about this very thing that needs to be done.

It is nice to have a romantic idea about what America was supposed to be. But if this monomania hinders us from being practical, I would say it is a harmful attachment.

So, for now, I think spreading "monarchy talk" is something we ought to do. America is an empire that has NO BUSINESS letting oligarchs rule it, and allowing the feral masses to vote themselves national largesse is insane.

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 2:04 AM  

"Indeed, if they are smart, they will gently assist the empire as it moves even deeper into self-destructive madness, in self-defense if nothing else."

I dunno. If the USA goes cray-cray, the whole world is gonna get hit with the shite.

- TNB

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco May 21, 2017 3:54 AM  

"And justifying empire because good empire does not make it any less an empire, or any less likely to go the way of all empires in time."

Exactly right, Vox.

This guy, Perilloux, is hallucinating. As Sir John Glubb has demonstrated, there is a "life of empires":

The nation / Dates of rise and fall / Duration in years

Assyria: 859-612 B.C. — 247.
Persia: 538-330 B.C. — 208.

(Cyrus and his descendants)

Greece: 331-100 B.C. — 231.

(Alexander and his successors)

Roman Republic: 260-27 B.C. — 233.
Roman Empire: 27 B.C.-A.D. 180 — 207.
Arab Empire: A.D. 634-880 — 246.
Mameluke Empire: 1250-1517 — 267.
Ottoman Empire: 1320-1570 — 250.
Spain: 1500-1750 — 250.
Romanov Russia: 1682-1916 — 234.
Britain: 1700-1950 — 250.

Samuel Arbesman, in his paper entitled The Life-Spans of Empires, established the mean length of an Empire to be 220 years (remarkably close to Glubb’s own estimates). Whether one chooses the Monroe Doctrine as the beginning of the American empire, or some other event, it is clear that the game is almost over.

Anonymous Sam the Man May 21, 2017 5:43 AM  

# 99,

Until 1911 the monarch had a lot of power, in particular the army reported to the monarch and all commissions were owed to the sovereign. The loss of the monarchs power came when the house of lords lost their veto power (1911) and in essence the house of commons became the governing body, with both the monarch and hour of lords being able to do not more than delay house of commons legislation.

Second, as English are a mixture of Celt(Gaul) and German, Balts seem to do well with Germans given a common language that the old time "white" America could survive quite well under one system of government.

The Germans and Nordics had a form of representative governments going back to the roman times. Tacitus writes about the "thing" which was a early parliament. Given the nature of northern and mountain folks, the populations are sufficiently impulse controlled that they could make a go of it.

The real problem no one is mentioning is at this point there are significant numbers of blacks that really are beyond redemption. The general population views them like Europeans viewed the Jews circa 1900, except it is not resentment about in-group success, but rather barbarism that drives the dislike. A significant number of Blacks are simply feral, and a significant number of Mexicans are predatory (MS-13 types)

No small nation state with a significant number of feral blacks will prosper, they will end up like South Africa. California seems to indicate the same thing about indigenous American stock (Indians), at least the predator Aztecs. So any solution that fixes things has to deal with at least 15% (maybe up to 25%)of the population being less than useless.

Harsh times bred harsh men, The solution that comes to mind would make mid 20 century Europe look mild.

Anonymous PAC May 21, 2017 6:29 AM  

"The real problem no one is mentioning is at this point there are significant numbers of blacks that really are beyond redemption. The general population views them like Europeans viewed the Jews circa 1900, except it is not resentment about in-group success, but rather barbarism that drives the dislike."

Right, envy. Of course. That old philosemitic chestnut again.

What an absurd characterization of a people's reaction to usury, predation and subversion.

Believe it or not, Christian Europeans are by and large not judeo-calvinist Mammonites in the American mold. They do not worship money.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable May 21, 2017 3:46 PM  

Classic Empire came in second at the Preakness. No, really.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 21, 2017 10:37 PM  

@49

"Would you say that the early Americans achieved their City on a Hill at some point before the Civil War?"

Yes... but then the weirdos and collectivists started their planned communities/sex-clubs...
strange how those who are into central, planned societies ALWAYS have some overt sexual agenda in place, too.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 21, 2017 10:48 PM  

@116

It was a question for Vox, but okay. So, you say they achieved Puritan Revolutionary glory and utopia. What year? What marked this paradise on Earth?

Blogger Dirk Manly May 21, 2017 10:51 PM  

@55

"Trump signs a 350 Billion arms package with Sunni/Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. The Sunni/Wahhabi Coalition is building a Sunni/Wahhabi "NATO" with Trumps support. What could go wrong?

The best metaphor, is a hook in the jaw."

We get the $.. which keeps the $ from going to China or Russia or EU weapon-makers. Also, we control the spare parts.

Anonymous Qungrad May 22, 2017 6:40 AM  

@112
There's some facts skewing in that list.
The Ottoman Empire didn't "end" in 1570, only its unopposed expansion ended in mid-XVII century, and it has kept itself in shape up till 1683. Might have conquered Vienna then if not for the Poles.
Ottomans started decomposing from then up to 1922. 239 years to properly die from rot is quite some time, and they stayed relatively large multinational multiconfessional empire to the very end, however rump empire it was.

Same with Russia, and that is only Moscow-Petersburg phase is taken into account. Great Perm was added in 1505, and Volga Khanates fully conquered around 50 years later. Peter the Great was a reformer, not a founder. So you can easily add at least 150 years to the empire span.

Same with purely voluntary split of Roman "empires" into the republic and the empire. No qualitative difference.
I might as well say that multinational Rome started in 260 BC but properly died in 1071 AD only. And why does Roman Empire "ends" in 160 AD, when nothing happened at all? Why not 273 AD, when it actually split in three?


I see bullshit.

Same with American empire.
It might as well gloriously shrink and decompose for two more centuries, like the Turks did, with the ruling class still lording over their lessers and unruly vassals, with occasional punitive genocides or pop relocations here and there, so no White Pride Land or Sack of San-Francisco till 2200.

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