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Wednesday, June 14, 2017

John Piper celebrates mudsharking

I have gradually come to believe that John Piper may be the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing. There is not a single tragedy, there is not a single dyscivic or dyscivilizational trend that he does not celebrate as God's will or good Christian behavior in his mealy-mouthed manner:
Fifty years ago, on June 12, 1967, the United States Supreme Court declared unconstitutional all state laws that prohibited interracial marriage. The case was called Loving v. Virginia. Mildred Jeter (who was black and Native American) and Richard Loving (who was white) were married in 1958 in Washington, D.C. When they returned to their hometown of Richmond, Virginia, they were arrested. They pled guilty to “cohabiting as man and wife, against the peace and dignity of the Commonwealth.”

This is a court decision worth celebrating. But far more important than the legalization of interracial marriage in one nation is the fact that God’s revealed will for the world is not undermined but advanced when a man and a woman from different ethnicities marry in Christ. That is a startling and controversial claim in the face of diverse opposition to interracial marriage in our own day. (The following quotes appear in Bloodlines, pages 204–205.)

From the black community, one spokesman says, “Interracial marriage undermines [African-Americans’] ability to introduce our children to black role models who accept their racial identity with pride.”

From the white community, another spokesman says, “We are seeing the death of the American and his replacement with a non-European type. . . . White people . . . are going to have to struggle mightily to survive the Neo-Melting Pot. . . . Call it what it is: Genocide and extinction of the white genotype.”

From the white evangelical community, another says, “I would never marry a black. Why? Because I believe God made the races, separated them, and set the bounds of their habitation (Deuteronomy 32:8; Acts 17:26). He made them uniquely different and intended that these distinctions remain.”

Against all of these objections, I believe it is as important as it ever has been that Christians settle it in their minds that interracial marriage in Christ is not only a beautiful picture of Christ’s marriage to his church, but also a flesh-and-blood incarnation of the unity Christ achieved by his death and resurrection....

The freedom and the beauty and peace of interracial marriage is one ray of the glory of Christ that should be shining from this new humanity — this “chosen race” (1 Peter 2:9) — which Jesus Christ died and rose again to create.
That's right up there with "Tornadoes are Christ's fingers being dragged across the land." I have no doubt whatsoever that this depraved man is going to end up by endorsing Islam as "a beautiful, glorious demonstration of Christ's love for the Messenger of God, may peace be upon him". Frankly, it's a surprise that he hasn't changed his position on women in the pulpit yet. If he lives another five years, I expect he will.

I have always been convinced that the Calvinists are absolutely and utterly wrong when it comes to theology. And every single time I read something John Piper has written, it underlines my opinion in that regard.

After all, what can be a more beautiful picture of Christianity than white women working to support their black husbands - 98 percent of whom do not financially support their mixed-race children - when they aren't strangling or beating them to death? A reader writes of learning that a former college girlfriend recently enjoyed the freedom and beauty and peace of paying the toll:
Witnessing the blueprint of the problems often discussed in this corner of the web unfold in person is sobering. Looking back, as a mid 20's guy who wasn't redpilled until my senior year of college, and as even more so as a recently converted Christian: the immensity of how truly evil those forcing this upon the world are has finally hit me. A true modern liberal fairy tale. Happy ending and all. Upper middle class white woman goes to college, does well at first, but the school has the exact effect its intended to have. A corrosive concoction of drugs and dick lead to her having to leave and live at home her junior year. I lost touch with her for about two years, but I actually caught up with her a few months before this and she had more or less gotten her act together. But alas, past actions have consequences in the present. And in this reality sleeping with a historically violent black whose concept of forensic science leads him to believe leaving his underwear in the washing machine after a rape-murder is sufficient cover leads to the well-documented results.
Can't you just feel the rays of the glory of Christ shining from that new humanity?

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359 Comments:

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Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 10:06 AM  

My brother in law loves Piper. And I continuously tell him that Piper is just a charlatan. But have yet to make any real headway.

It should scare Calvinists that they hold a similar theology to Islam. Which also believes everything is as , in this case Allah, wills it.

That alone should freak them out. Yet it doesn't for whatever reason.

Anonymous Faceless June 14, 2017 10:06 AM  

I continue to be puzzled beyond measure that people who claim to be "in the Reformed Tradition" in America idolize John Piper and ridicule John MacArthur. John Piper believes everything he says in the moment because those are his feelings and so valid - now, who do we know who clings to "her personal truth" in that same way?

Anonymous Faceless June 14, 2017 10:09 AM  

Not only are we supposed to "man up and marry that slut", but now we're supposed to specifically seek out the most extremely culturally and genetically distant slut to marry as well? They just keep moving those goalposts.

Anonymous Muh Black Son June 14, 2017 10:10 AM  

I condemn you racists in the name of Judeo-Christ and the Golden Dindu!

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/martin-luther-king-changed-my-world-and-i-am-thankful

Blogger Student in Blue June 14, 2017 10:10 AM  

Judeo-Calvo-Christ, perhaps?

Anonymous Viiidad June 14, 2017 10:11 AM  

John Calvin would have executed this cuck.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 10:12 AM  

Calvinism is the theology of satan

OpenID paworldandtimes June 14, 2017 10:12 AM  

The human disgust reflex curs through all of that. A healthy White person will be indifferent to the sight of black kids or families, or the sight of a black woman with same-shade child (unless they trespass on White space)

But he will, in all circumstances, feel an aversion as though from prearticulate evil, when he sees a Mulatto child embedded among White kids or the other things that Piper celebrates.

In every magazine story that celebrates a miscegenated family, and in every normie verbal acknowledgment of someone's mixed orrspring, the word "beautiful" will appear. Nobody calls normal kids that. That's an overcompensation to stifle the horror.

PA

Blogger Whisker biscuit June 14, 2017 10:19 AM  

But, if you're a Calvinist, you get to vape, pub crawl, sport a pretensious beard, wear tight shirts, be a smug creep, and use snarky retorts to inquiring souls. Sounds like a cult to me...

Blogger James June 14, 2017 10:20 AM  

I have always wondered why these people don't understand what it means when God said his creation was "Good". His creation was as it was and supposed to be. But, somehow they believe he wants man to created mixed races, none of which he created. Mixed races are an abomination to God, but so many "Christians" believe he means for us to perfect his "Good" creation by bringing in man-made creations to augment his perfection. The adversary has deceived man to believe that races are a "social construct" and that there is no difference between the races other than external appearances. They ostracize and destroy anyone that points out that racial differences also exist in the spiritual, mental, and emotional natures of the different races, not to mention traits we aren't even aware of. A mixed breed is confusion and God is not the author of confusion.

Blogger Farnswords June 14, 2017 10:25 AM  

Someday we'll all sing a beautiful song... "We have a Piper down!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks7gsyah7PM

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 10:26 AM  

Of course he worships the Martin Luther King charade. Of course he does.

What a joke.

Anonymous Cuck Piper June 14, 2017 10:27 AM  

1) Lol at the claim black men marry... almost every mixed race couple I see is a black man fucking a fat white girl in acts of adultery. I gotta believe at least 90% of mulattos are bastards or in a broken home. Anyone got the stats?

2) Odds that Piper has mystery meat grandkids in his family tree? At least 50%?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 14, 2017 10:29 AM  

Revolting. I'm happy to report my wife is 95% NW European.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 14, 2017 10:30 AM  

But, if you're a Calvinist, you get to vape

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?

Blogger Student in Blue June 14, 2017 10:32 AM  

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?

Maybe sodomy. The jury's still debating that one though.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 10:36 AM  

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?

A soymilk and kale smoothie.


Confirmed for HRT.

Blogger Dave June 14, 2017 10:36 AM  

A reader writes of learning that a former college girlfriend recently enjoyed the freedom and beauty and peace of paying the toll:

A booty call that didn't quite go as expected, that's all. No other significance there.

Blogger William Hudson June 14, 2017 10:38 AM  

One scan-thru of his site, and I'm asking, Vox, why in the world are you still reading his purile tripe?

Blogger Dave June 14, 2017 10:40 AM  

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?

Just saying or writing it is gay.

Anonymous 360 June 14, 2017 10:40 AM  

It doesn't appear he is saying that interracial marriage is preferred but that it is merely one more way to display the gospel. If Piper came out and said that interracial marriage is the only way to display that, then I would find that objectionable.

I think there is sufficient evidence (scientific, sociologically, etc.) to show that interracial marriage is generally a bad idea. Hell, just being married will bring hardship (1 Cor. 7:28), adding race to the mix is asking for punishment. But I do believe the gospel can overcome such hardship that arise from interracial marriage along with any other baggage people bring into a marriage.

Anonymous Viiidad June 14, 2017 10:43 AM  

Nate is nothing if not bombastic and predictable.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 10:43 AM  

But I do believe the gospel can overcome such hardship that arise from interracial marriage along with any other baggage people bring into a marriage.

The same gospel that speaks of being unequally yoked? That one?

Sheesh. Just going on biology alone, interracial marriage is a bad idea. The kids are genetic half breeds. In a tough spot for organ and blood donation.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 10:44 AM  

Piper's colleague, John MacArthur Jr. whose congregation is in Southern California, said his church is now 50% Hispanic. They apparently don't realize that as this trend continues, interracial marriage will be moot because there won't be any white people left. He'll be teaching Hispanics to intermarry with blacks - which won't happen.

Blogger Mocheirge June 14, 2017 10:45 AM  

Cuck Piper wrote:2) Odds that Piper has mystery meat grandkids in his family tree? At least 50%?

I think Piper went through a virtue signalling phase and adopted a foreign daughter.

Ah, who'm I kidding, his virtue signalling is permanent, not a phase.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 14, 2017 10:45 AM  

It doesn't appear he is saying that interracial marriage is preferred but that it is merely one more way to display the gospel.

As often happens with the language of Modernists, he never actually says it's preferred in so many words; but that's the obvious meaning of everything he's saying here, and the one he knows his listeners will take from it.

Blogger Rabbi B June 14, 2017 10:45 AM  

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?

Josh?

Blogger ZhukovG June 14, 2017 10:46 AM  

@William Hudson: I think we have a few true believer, TULIP, The Lord is the Borg, Calvinists here. So its probably partially for fun and perhaps to educate a few of the not entirely Calvin Converged.

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 10:47 AM  

One scan-thru of his site, and I'm asking, Vox, why in the world are you still reading his purile tripe?

I'm not. Every now and then, his nonsense is brought to my attention.

It doesn't appear he is saying that interracial marriage is preferred but that it is merely one more way to display the gospel.

That's not true. He is actively celebrating the Supreme Court intervention to override democracy in order to permit interracial marriage. You are attempting to minimize his evil anti-American perspective.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 10:50 AM  

@28 TULIP? Yes, I believe Total Depravity is alive and well.

Blogger SouthRon June 14, 2017 10:53 AM  

I don't know about mystery meat grandkids, but I give you Talitha Piper his adopted, black daughter.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 10:55 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 10:57 AM  

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people;" -- Abraham Lincoln

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 10:57 AM  

I'm close to being convinced that the telltale sign is the step from "this is acceptable" to "this is preferable/exceptional/beautiful/etc." I don't give a damn about interracial marriage. But there's no sensible way to say that it's somehow better or more beautiful than any other marriage.

It's the same thing that happens in every other area, over and over again.

"It's good to learn foreign languages for (insert purpose)" becomes "Enough is evil and you're an uncultured heathen if you don't speak another language".

Over and over and over.

Anonymous Rfvujm June 14, 2017 11:00 AM  

"This study finds that 92% of biracial children with African American fathers are born out of wedlock and 82% end up on government assistance."


https://ssrn.com/abstract=2625893

Anonymous Steve June 14, 2017 11:01 AM  

Vaping helped me stop my 20 fags a day habit.

What's gay about that?

Blogger rumpole5 June 14, 2017 11:01 AM  

Anyone with a brain knows that it is a really bad idea for blacks and whites to marry. The cultures are simply too dissimilar. However, as I noted before, that ship has long since sailed in the USA in the 300 years since some of our greedy forebearers made the serious mistake of adopting the Muslim and African practice of slavery for short term gain, and brought these persons to this continent. In that 300 years, an irretrievable process of mixing has gone on, both culturally and racially. There are already 7 to 8 million existing "white" Americans of partial African descent. They are enough in numbers to introduce their racial makeup into millions more of the descendants of them, and pure European descent spouses. Likewise, thousands more Afros are just as light skinned as some of our Mediterranean whites, and many of them decide to escape their fellows and "pass" into the American white world. I say that we just let stupid fat white women whiten up a troublesome breed. As European genes are introduced into the AfroAmerican race I hope that more of them will assimilate into the mainstream culture. There really is no other viable alternative to our present predicament.

Anonymous 360 June 14, 2017 11:02 AM  

The same gospel that speaks of being unequally yoked? That one?

The same gospel that says "don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers" (2 Cor. 6:14)? Yeah, that one.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 11:02 AM  

"Vaping helped me stop my 20 fags a day habit."

There are times when British English is... unfortunate

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 11:02 AM  

@23. Ransom Smith

Nothing to do with race/ethnicity.
------------------------------------

2 Corinthians 6
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[b]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God.

Blogger SouthRon June 14, 2017 11:05 AM  

Talitha was adopted as an act of virtue signaling:

In adopting a black child we would embrace and affirm the value of personhood in God's image above racial distinctives. This is a crucial message for our day of cultural pride that may tend to minimize the utter uniqueness of humanity over against all other beings with a value as created in God's image that is infinitely more important than any racial or cultural trait. We would be saying that being a human person is so indescribably important that it should take priority over race and culture in governing what is good for a child.

So John was she an inhuman, nonhuman, or subhuman person before you adopted her?

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 11:06 AM  

@Jamie

I'm aware of the verse.

And the simple follow up would be to ask about spiritually within interracial relationships. As those are churchian at best.

I wasn't making a race argument with the scripture. Rather that more often than not, neither the man nor often the woman is a true believer.

Blogger Peter Jackson June 14, 2017 11:06 AM  

It's a darn good thing we have God up there establishing immutable, indisputable laws by which we should all live. Otherwise, we'd all have our own opinions regarding morality. /s

Blogger Out of Nod June 14, 2017 11:08 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Mocheirge June 14, 2017 11:08 AM  

I personally find it fascinating how Rushdoony was also a Calvinist, but he came to completely opposite conclusions about ordering society. With respect to this thread's topic, Rushdoony opposed unequal yoking, and he included social class, culture, and economics along with race as sources of inequality.

Anonymous 360 June 14, 2017 11:11 AM  

That's not true. He is actively celebrating the Supreme Court intervention to override democracy in order to permit interracial marriage. You are attempting to minimize his evil anti-American perspective.

I see your point. But isn't that conflating the legality vs the morality of the issue?

Blogger Gaiseric June 14, 2017 11:12 AM  

Steve wrote:Vaping helped me stop my 20 fags a day habit.

What's gay about that?

I see what you did there...

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 14, 2017 11:14 AM  

Maybe God wills that mudsharks are murdered and John Piper goes to Hell.

Calvin did nothing wrong!

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 11:14 AM  

@42. Ransom Smith

Regardless of what I think of interracial marriages, abusing and misusing Scriptures not kosher.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins June 14, 2017 11:14 AM  

If you are following your Bible, what is important is how the other person is following Jesus. And I mean action, not lip service. Talk's cheap. And I have seen many a man be faithful until he got the girl.

Having said that, the sad truth is that in following Jesus, much of black culture has to be rejected.

And for you non-Calvinists: nanner nanner foo foo. (Did you know Jack Daniels, yes THAT Jack Daniels, was a Baptist minister?)

Blogger Mr Darcy June 14, 2017 11:14 AM  

Revolting. I remember when that court decree was issued. My parents and grandparents were beside themselves. Thank God I'm a Southerner and never had to be "red-pilled" or "woke." No, nor any of my folks, including my children and grandchildren.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 11:16 AM  

Rahab the harlot. Rahab the Canaanite. Ancestor of Jesus Christ. There were exceptions.

Blogger Joshua_D June 14, 2017 11:17 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:But, if you're a Calvinist, you get to vape

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?


I THINK I COULD THINK OF A FEW THINGS, MANBUNS, ROMPHIMS, GLITTER BEARDS.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 11:18 AM  

@Jamie

Clarification maybe , as my thoughts weren't properly explained.

I'll agree though it came off as misuse.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins June 14, 2017 11:20 AM  

@52 Rahab's son Boaz married Ruth the Moabite. King David had a lot of Gentile blood in him, didn't he.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 14, 2017 11:29 AM  

@53 Johsua_D,

I dunno, those things are certainly very gay, that's true. But vaping is so gay that even women look gay when they do it. I don't know how that's possible.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 11:31 AM  

@55 I have no problem with exceptions as long as they are not the rule. The USA doesn't need to be 100% white, but I want it to go back to being at least 85% white as pre 1965. I support Vox Days 16 Points #10:

"The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means."

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 11:32 AM  

The consistent theme with the OT is the need for conversion. Let's not forget that Moses married an Egyptian, too. But the problems always arose with the wives who followed foreign gods. That's the key piece.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 11:35 AM  

Moses married an Egyptian

Ethiopian, not Egyptian.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 11:38 AM  

@54. Ransom Smith

I think that there is a principle that may apply.

The yoke reference is to farming after all and it references yoking a strong ox to a weak one and the extreme difficulty in guiding the till in a straight line. I guess, in modern times it would be to "do not put unequal tires on a car."

The principle may apply yoking unequally along economic strata, social, family/tribe, etc.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 11:39 AM  

Genesis 27:46  Then Rebekah said to Isaac, "I'm sick and tired of these local Hittite women! I would rather die than see Jacob marry one of them."

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 11:41 AM  

Right, my bad, I was thinking of Joseph and Aseneth.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 11:42 AM  

@Jamie

That's more or less what I was attempting to rationalize.

The yoking of disparate groups with totally different cultures and even theology. As the Black church is vastly different from the white.

Anonymous 360 June 14, 2017 11:46 AM  

The principle may apply yoking unequally along economic strata, social, family/tribe, etc.

I think it is pretty clear what that specific verse is implying. You cannot draw that principle out of that verse. I think a stronger argument would be the multiple instances of Israelites intermarrying with the surrounding culture and the detrimental effects that had on them political, socially, etc.

Blogger Leo Anodos June 14, 2017 11:47 AM  

Piper is cucked on race and patriarchy, and his positions on sexuality are unbiblical and repressive toward men (eg, he rails against polygamy and men even looking at attractive women).

But, at the risk of sounding like a concern troll, his recorded sermons show him to be a generally gifted exegete. I would definitely not call him a charlatan.

Anonymous somewhereone June 14, 2017 11:48 AM  

After reading through the Arrest Warrant Affidavit, it turns out the perp was arrested twice prior for sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault in 2012 and 2014 respectively. The accounts are rather graphic, but I think the most disturbing part of those cases is that the perp wasn't even charged and they let him walk. /smdh

Blogger DJ | AMDG June 14, 2017 11:49 AM  

I know! Right?!

I drink my kale smoothies with almond milk. Freakin' soy drinkers...

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 14, 2017 11:49 AM  

Rahab was a sex worker who conspired with Israelites to open her own home-towns gates, thus leading to everyone one in her town getting killed. Great if you're a follower of Moses- not so great if you're her family, town, neighbors.

Of course Jews venerate traitors and porn stars . What else have they got?

Mr Cellar probably got respected all the way to his spectacular funeral.

I bet the Spanish Muslims felt pretty great about their conquering skills, walking into open gated, prosperous communities! Of course Allah smiled on them, letting them enjoy themselves while Jews did the boring work of administering the glorious Moslem state!

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 11:53 AM  

@64. 360

Oh no.

2 Corinthians 6 is a command, a prohibition, a sin. God can still redeem, though but is is a principle that is being commanded to be followed in the specific instance of marriage to an unbeliever.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 11:56 AM  

@68. Ariadne Umbrella

My understanding is that Rahab's profession could be also be translated into "in-keeper." Rahab may have been a prostitute, an inn-keeper, or both.

Either way, she heeded the God of Israel and was redeemed. The rest is history.

Blogger jamsco June 14, 2017 11:57 AM  

Well, it had to happen sometime - Vox finally alerted to Piper's view on interracial marriage.

Obviously I disagree with this post, but it's good to have it on record. And I've put 6/14/22 on my calendar so I can show Vox he's wrong. Again.

Yes, yes, I know. A passive aggressive, gamma, virtue-signaling comment is what this is.

Anonymous Tower of Bagel June 14, 2017 11:58 AM  

In the current year, the Southern Baptists, Calvinists and Papists are all cucked.

This is how the Reformation ends: With my wife's black son, man up and marry those sluts, #NeverTrump, and open borders in the name of Judeo-Christ.

Blogger jamsco June 14, 2017 11:58 AM  

But you knew I had to comment, right?

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 12:01 PM  

@68. Ariadne Umbrella June 14, 2017 11:49 AM

Rahab? As in Jericho? As in the wall of Jericho coming down?

Anonymous Sensei June 14, 2017 12:01 PM  

Piper loves the Word, but he's 1) a very emotional man, weak to S'jwevangelical appeals about hurt feelings and historical injustice, and 2) he's getting up there in years. Some formerly strong men/theologians become weak to SJW type pressure as they get old, when "the fight" seems better left to younger men. They still have a huge platform but no longer have the intestinal fortitude to stand strong against evil, and they become indulgent theological grandpas. Piper seems to be suffering from a particularly bad case of this.

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 12:04 PM  

But, at the risk of sounding like a concern troll, his recorded sermons show him to be a generally gifted exegete. I would definitely not call him a charlatan.

I would. I would also call him a liar, a snake, and a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Obviously I disagree with this post, but it's good to have it on record. And I've put 6/14/22 on my calendar so I can show Vox he's wrong. Again. Yes, yes, I know. A passive aggressive, gamma, virtue-signaling comment is what this is.

No, it's just a dishonest one. But then, it's hardly a surprise that a follower of a snake like John Piper would behave dishonestly.

Blogger jamsco June 14, 2017 12:04 PM  

"They still have a huge platform but no longer have the intestinal fortitude to stand strong against evil, and they become indulgent theological grandpas. Piper seems to be suffering from a particularly bad case of this."

You say this like Piper hasn't been saying things like this for decades.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 12:05 PM  

Some formerly strong men/theologians become weak to SJW type pressure as they get old

Piper has ALWAYS been on this hobby horse. It's reaction against his preacher father who was based AF, and thought that interracial marriage is a horrible sin.

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2017 12:05 PM  

I'm close to being convinced that the telltale sign is the step from "this is acceptable" to "this is preferable/exceptional/beautiful/etc."

It's the next step afterward that bothers me: "this is obligatory".

Blogger jamsco June 14, 2017 12:05 PM  

"No, it's just a dishonest one."

It sounds like you think you can read my mind. You apparently can't.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 12:06 PM  

Also, I obviously think Vox is delusional.

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2017 12:07 PM  

Molly Matheson doesn't look like your typical mudshark (fat, tatted, fugly, rejected by all other men). She shouldn't have lacked for acceptable-quality (i.e., non-mud) male attention.

Blogger Tuatha June 14, 2017 12:08 PM  

The only thought going through my mind after reading this is that christianity needs more calvinism.

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 12:09 PM  

It's reaction against his preacher father who was based AF, and thought that interracial marriage is a horrible sin.

Obviously one of them must be wrong. I don't know that it is a sin as such, but it is certainly unwise and the fruits are observably negative.

The fact that Piper actively glorifies it while condemning Biblically acceptable polygamy shows that he's not merely wrong, he's a liar and an idiot.

Blogger Dave June 14, 2017 12:09 PM  

the perp was arrested twice prior for sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell ya.


I think the most disturbing part of those cases is that the perp wasn't even charged and they let him walk.

Dindu nuffin.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 12:10 PM  

Obviously one of them must be wrong.

Yes, it's clearly John who is wrong. Hopefully the next generation reacts the right way again.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 12:11 PM  

"It's the next step afterward that bothers me: "this is obligatory"."

Yeah, that's the logical extension. I'm saying that the predictor is the elevation of status. You know - legislated victim classes, token emphasis, etc.

It's the distinction between

"Ok, sure. You do you."

and

"Oh that's just so wonderful and special."

It's particularly egregious in liberal comment sections and the like. You can't help but notice it eventually.

Blogger pyrrhus June 14, 2017 12:11 PM  

The great Roger Zelazny called these people who have no true beliefs and blow with whatever wind is in fashion "trimmers." As in trimming their sails for convenience, I guess....Anyway, western society is loaded with them, and many of them in the pulpit like Piper.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 14, 2017 12:14 PM  

Rahab might have been redeemed- but that doesn't excuse the fact that she collaborated with her towns invaders, getting everyone she knew in town killed. She kept her family safe- brothers, parents- but that meant everyone else died a fiery, bloody death.

Remember, the book was written by the invaders. I'm pretty sure that Israelis today think the most virtuous Palestinian is the one selling out her neighbors, rather than the one peacefully doing her job at her loom.

Blogger Joshua_D June 14, 2017 12:14 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:@53 Johsua_D,

I dunno, those things are certainly very gay, that's true. But vaping is so gay that even women look gay when they do it. I don't know how that's possible.


That is a very good point. So gay it makes women look gay.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 12:16 PM  

"Rahab might have been redeemed- but that doesn't excuse the fact that she collaborated with her towns invaders, getting everyone she knew in town killed."

You should actually read the Bible before commenting on it, but that's probably too much to expect from an alt-retard.

Blogger jamsco June 14, 2017 12:16 PM  

"The fact that Piper actively glorifies it while condemning Biblically acceptable polygamy shows that he's not merely wrong, he's a liar and an idiot."

So, Vox, you think a man marrying two wives in today's America is Biblically acceptable?

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 14, 2017 12:17 PM  

I'm using non-specific words- but Jericho was the oldest continuously inhabited walled city. It was prosperous, safe, stable. This cat-lady decided to side with the swarthy, swarming strangers than her own people. That means the children of the people she grew up with, her neighbors, died. That means the teen girls around her were likely raped and then killed. That means the old people who had said hello to her, her beer supplier, her miller, her breadbaker, her loom-repair guy- they all died in fire.

Is Merkel virtuous? I'm pretty sure I can find a Haaretz article calling her virtuous and great.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 14, 2017 12:20 PM  

We have mixed marriages in the family. They are not easy on anyone. It's not a good thing to encourage. You can't even have a simple Thanksgiving dinner without tense encounters, even if people know and love each other.
On the other hand, they exist. A steady 10% intermarriage rate occurs, and it shouldn't be encouraged, but it's also part of who we are, as Americans.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 12:20 PM  

John looks up to his father in every other regard, except this. Says it's a generational blind spot.

That's exactly what it is, but the blind spot is not in his father's generation.

Blogger Darwinian Arminian June 14, 2017 12:20 PM  

Heh. There's another amusing aspect to all this. The couple that gave us the court victory that Piper so eagerly celebrates now also owed its existence to a few other sexual misadventures the church once tended to frown upon. The recent movie even acknowledged this. Richard Loving literally came from a "poor white trash" background and was decidedly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He first met Mildred Jeter when he was 17 and she was 11 and they dated on-and-off for a few years before the marriage took place after she'd just turned 18 and got pregnant out of wedlock and while he was in his mid-20s without regular employment.

One might ask if the church today smile upon a white couple with the same particulars to their marital arrangement, but then you realize there's an easy answer to that question: Of course not. No, today's enlightened and tolerant church would have quickly realized that the man in that relationship was a contemptible scoundrel, because in knocking up the girl before marrying her, he had just robbed the church from having the holiest presence that they could ever have in their pews: An unwed single mother, just like Jesus' mom was!

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 12:24 PM  

So, Vox, you think a man marrying two wives in today's America is Biblically acceptable?

Certainly. It's already de facto legal as well, thanks to all the polygamist Muslims who have been imported.

Anonymous Remove Kebab June 14, 2017 12:24 PM  

"because in knocking up the girl before marrying her, he had just robbed the church from having the holiest presence that they could ever have in their pews: An unwed single mother, just like Jesus' mom was!"

I see Jesus' face on every bastard niglet.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 12:26 PM  

Ariadne Umbrella

Rahab fled Jericho and was saved.

Jericho fell to the Israelites after a protest/celebratory march around the outside of the walls and when the brass section of the marching band played ... the walls fell.

Are you Christian?

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 12:26 PM  

On the other hand, they exist. A steady 10% intermarriage rate occurs, and it shouldn't be encouraged, but it's also part of who we are, as Americans.

If there is intermarriage, they're not Americans. USians, at most.

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 14, 2017 12:27 PM  

@97 You meant Judeo-Muslims, Vox. :-)

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 14, 2017 12:27 PM  

Piper is a Boomertard. He's been SJW converged to some degree for years, and p-whipped his entire marriage.

NACALT.

Blogger Durandel Almiras June 14, 2017 12:28 PM  

Not shocking to see another preacher supporting Babel while claiming it is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matthew 12:30-32)

Piper will eventually get his reward.

Blogger JACIII June 14, 2017 12:30 PM  

Boom

Anonymous Gart Williams June 14, 2017 12:30 PM  

This is why I follow Crom.

Anonymous c matt June 14, 2017 12:30 PM  

We would be saying that being a human person is so indescribably important that it should take priority over race and culture in governing what is good for a child.

But isn't race and culture part of being a human? Perhaps they should not be a determinative factor (race possibly least of all), but to say culture is not important in governing what is good for child is ludicrous. In fact, it is the most important factor.

Blogger John Williams June 14, 2017 12:31 PM  

Nate is nothing if not bombastic and predictable.
More like eloquent & consistent.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 12:31 PM  


So, Vox, you think a man marrying two wives in today's America is Biblically acceptable?


Just ask yourself who makes for better neighbors, the Mormon family with three wives and a school bus of kids?

Or mudshark mom and her three kids by three dads? (Literally my idiot cousin. Three kids. All different black dads)

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 12:33 PM  

Gotta cut the guy some slack. Not like he can change what his views are - he is a Calvinist, after all.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 14, 2017 12:33 PM  

It's reaction against his preacher father who was based AF, and thought that interracial marriage is a horrible sin.

Obviously one of them must be wrong. I don't know that it is a sin as such, but it is certainly unwise and the fruits are observably negative.


@84 VD
From my judgment as a Catholic, it can be a horrible sin under certain circumstances. For example, for a white woman to marry a Muslim man, or to listen to her vaj tingles and marry a worthless black man, given the problems that she should be aware of and willfully disregarding. I would also argue that it would be a sin for a Gamma or Omega white man to marry an Asian, for example, given the high risk any future sons will be not just Gamma/Omega, but half-Asian like Elliot Rodger.

Anonymous God hates cucks June 14, 2017 12:33 PM  

"
I'm using non-specific words- but Jericho was the oldest continuously inhabited walled city. It was prosperous, safe, stable. This cat-lady decided to side with the swarthy, swarming strangers than her own people. That means the children of the people she grew up with, her neighbors, died. That means the teen girls around her were likely raped and then killed. That means the old people who had said hello to her, her beer supplier, her miller, her breadbaker, her loom-repair guy- they all died in fire."

Except Rehab had nothing to do with it's destruction. Nothing she did made the walls more or less likely to fall down. Nothing she could have done would have saved Jericho from God's judgment. She did the wise thing and spared herself and her family.

Blogger Dexter June 14, 2017 12:41 PM  

it's also part of who we are, as Americans.

Speak for yourself.

Or let your son's father speak for you.

Blogger Desiderius June 14, 2017 12:42 PM  

"John Calvin would have executed this cuck."

Could be, but Jean Calvin was a French lawyer, so that's two strikes against him right there.

Could someone fill me in on the points of disagreement Vox has with Calvinist theology?

Blogger Matthew McDaniel June 14, 2017 12:43 PM  

Calvin had Muslim tutors. Absolute sovereignty in the sense of an absence of free will is a very Islamic concept.

Anonymous Tower of Bagel June 14, 2017 12:48 PM  

Piper is a literally a cuck.

This alone shapes my opinion of him.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 14, 2017 12:48 PM  

jamsco wrote:So, Vox, you think a man marrying two wives in today's America is Biblically acceptable?

Can't speak for Vox, but why would it be any different in today's America than at any other time? I have never yet found an instance in the bible where polygamy is called a sin. It's obviously not God's preferred arrangement, but it's never called a sin. It's a disqualification for elder-ship, but not a sin.

So, yes, obviously biblically acceptable in today's America as it always has been.

Blogger Sam Lively June 14, 2017 12:49 PM  

I think Piper’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing too, or at least a retarded sheep, and the pedestalization of interracial marriage is symptomatic of his folly, but I disagree that interracial marriage is inherently dyscivic or dyscivilizational. It’s one of the best tools for assimilation (hence Jordan Peele’s black nationalist outburst in Get Out – triggered by his fears of total assimilation into elite white culture after getting engaged to a white comedienne). Past a certain threshold it ceases to be assimilation and tends more to chaos (or reverse assimilation), but you don’t have to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 14, 2017 12:50 PM  

@65
“I would definitely not call him a charlatan.”

Piper thinks that everything that happens was ordained by God in eternity past. That makes God the author of evil. The man may, may, mind you, still be a Christian (that's up to God), but that one teaching, alone, is unchristian. There is much, much more than that. A gifted exegete, he is not.

While Roger Olson was at Bethel, Piper smeared him and made things so hostile that Olson left for Baylor. Olson has problems, but Piper lied about the man to get him out of the Twin Cities.

Anonymous Pennywise June 14, 2017 12:51 PM  

Of course, context is important here about “coal burning”.

Most studies conducted on interracial marriages conclude that same race marriages tend to last longer. However, the results of some studies led to the opinion that factors like the age of marriage and educational qualifications had greater bearing on the stability and longevity of such marriages than the racial identities of the individuals. When the background factors like the age of marriage and the level of education have been adjusted in these studies, the differences that cropped up in black male-white female and white male-white female marriages were negligible. Furthermore, it has been found through meta-analysis that the higher the educational level, the lesser the rate of divorce for both same race and interracial marriages. In addition, marriage between same race and interracial individuals which took place earlier in life had increased chances of ending in divorce.

Indeed, there is a tendency for interracial marriages to “swirl out of control”. But percentages vary across a certain period of time. The probability of divorce by the 10th year of marriage, in comparison to an all-white couple, changes considerably. In case of an Asian husband and a white wife, the chances of the couple ending up in divorce are 59 percent higher than a regular white couple. The percentage dips down to 50 percent when the couple consists of a black man and a white wife. However, there is a tremendous decrease to 4 percent involving a white man and an Asian woman in contrast to a couple consisting of a white man and a white woman. Marriages that took place between African American men and white women had twice the potential of ending up in divorce in comparison to marriages involving a white man and a white woman. This indicates that, compared to the earlier findings, the greater rate of divorce between interracial couples, especially involving African American men and white women, is not just due to the background aspects.

Regarding the Christian view toward interracial marriage, the wife of Moses wife was of another race. In Numbers 12:1-15, Aaron and Miriam were punished for criticizing this interracial marriage. The book of Ruth also details how a foreigner became part of the lineage of Christ. Rehab the harlot, also of another nation, is included in the lineage of Christ as recorded in Matthew 1. Colossians 3:11 makes it clear that from God's perspective all are one in Christ.

Refer to Exodus…“take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the people of the land where you go (the Promised Land the Israelites were to inherit), lest it be for a snare . . . 14. For you shall worship no other god . . . 15. Lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go whoring after their gods . . . 16. And lest you take from their daughters for your sons (marriages), and their daughters go whoring after THEIR gods and make your sons go whoring after THEIR gods (Exodus 34:12, 14-16)

To whom is God giving the above warning? To those who he led out of Egypt, a great mass descended not only from Jacob but also from other peoples and nations (Exodus 12:37). What does the warning concern? It concerns marriages between those who will enter the Promised Land with those already living in the area. Why is the warning given? Notice that "interracial" relationships for their own sake are the focus of the passage. The warning is given to keep those who worship the true God from being led astray to worship FALSE deities by their pagan mates. God is not forbidding interRACIAL dating and marriage in the effort keep people racially pure, He warned against interRELIGIOUS matrimony, meaning marriages between those who follow Him with those who do not follow Him.

From a biological perspective, mixed-race relations are desirable.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html

Blogger Matthew McDaniel June 14, 2017 12:52 PM  

Good answer.

Blogger KSC June 14, 2017 12:54 PM  

Vox, you have a habit of calling people liars without presenting any evidence to that effect.

Anonymous 360 June 14, 2017 12:57 PM  

@97 So, Vox, you think a man marrying two wives in today's America is Biblically acceptable?

Certainly. It's already de facto legal as well, thanks to all the polygamist Muslims who have been imported.


Vox is correct in that there is no proscription against polygamy in scripture. Though it is worth pointing out that it does not ever seem to end well anywhere you see it utilized in the Bible.

They are also barred from any leadership or authority in the Church.

Blogger James June 14, 2017 12:57 PM  

Markku wrote:Moses married an Egyptian

Ethiopian, not Egyptian.


This is one of those entries in the Bible that needs clarification. Was not his father-in-law Jethro the Midian? The Midianites occupied a land on the Arabic peninsula. The misconception derives from the mistranslation of Cush into Ethiopia. Cush was a son of Ham. The land of Cush has been used to deliberately misinterpret the lineage of Ham creating the black race, as if God needed to change the skin of White people to black.

Exodus 2:16-22 says, "Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father’s flock. And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock. And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock. And he said unto his daughters, And where is he? why is it that ye have left the man? call him, that he may eat bread. And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom: for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land." Reuel was another name Jethro. Cush, not Ethiopia was associated with Midian. Exodus 3:1 says, "Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb." Here Cush is associated with Midian in the northern Arabian Peninsula. Mount Horeb is associated with Midian as well. Moses was married to a woman named Zipporah from this area, not a woman from Africa in Ethiopia. Exodus 4:18-19 says, "And Moses went and returned to Jethro his father in law, and said unto him, Let me go, I pray thee, and return unto my brethren which are in Egypt, and see whether they be yet alive. And Jethro said to Moses, Go in peace. And the LORD said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life." Chapter 4 shows Moses dwelling in Midian where he met his Cushite wife. Exodus chapter 18 also mentions Jethro seven times and shows it in the context of a Midian priest and not a person from Ethiopia.

Blogger KSC June 14, 2017 12:59 PM  

@122
There are few to no examples of Christian civilizations where polygamy has been widely tolerated, let alone encouraged. Even the Old Testament commands kings not to amass multiple wives.

Blogger Whisker biscuit June 14, 2017 1:02 PM  

Welp, there it is. The Dailymail. That's real science there buddy.

I'm guessing mulattos discovered medicines, were brilliant engineers, built machines to produce goods, and constructed safe neighborhoods. Sure! I can look at Africa and see the proof!

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 1:03 PM  

Vox, you have a habit of calling people liars without presenting any evidence to that effect.

So what? A liar is a liar. A fact is true regardless of whether it is proved to your satisfaction or not.

And I can always back up my assertions. Every single time. I don't make them without cause.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 1:04 PM  

"Vox is correct in that there is no proscription against polygamy in scripture."

This is not entirely true. Bishops are explicitly forbidden from polygamy. And "each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband" is often interpreted as effectively forbidding polygamy in the Church. It's also worth noting that every major branch of Christianity and every offshoot has forbidden it until the Mormons came along.

Blogger Whisker biscuit June 14, 2017 1:04 PM  

Mulattos dunking a a ball in a hoop is proof mixed marriages are desirable!!!

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 1:04 PM  

There are few to no examples of Christian civilizations where polygamy has been widely tolerated, let alone encouraged.

Irrelevant. Polygamy is observably dyscivic and probably dyscivilizational. But it is not a sin, nor is it barred to the Christian.

Blogger KSC June 14, 2017 1:06 PM  

@126
Okay, then where, specifically, has John Piper given statements he has know or believed to be false?

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 1:08 PM  

This is not entirely true. Bishops are explicitly forbidden from polygamy.

That is pointless pedantry. Bishops are a very small fraction of the population. But since you are spergy enough to insist on greater precision, I will accommodate you.

Correction: "there is no general proscription against a Christian who is not a bishop, deacon, or church elder taking more than one wife in scripture."

Now, how does this change the discussion at all?

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 1:10 PM  

"This is not entirely true. Bishops are explicitly forbidden from polygamy."

They are also explicitly forbidden from having unruly children. I'll put more stock in you proclamations when you are calling for bishops to be defrocked because their kids got in fights at school.

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 1:11 PM  

Okay, then where, specifically, has John Piper given statements he has know or believed to be false?

I repeat: John Piper is a liar, a snake, and a wolf in sheep's clothing. And I have no interest in debating the matter with you, since I already know exactly how you are going to behave after I present you with incontrovertible proof of my assertions.

Do your own research and save your tortuous obfuscations for someone else.

Blogger rycamor June 14, 2017 1:11 PM  

So, interesting question arising out of this: if you could make interracial marriage illegal, would you? And how does one judge what level of mixing is acceptable?

So far, my reaction is negative (emotionally due to my social circles, Biblically--I see no exact prohibition, and morally on grounds of liberty), but I'm willing to be instructed on this one.

Blogger praetorian June 14, 2017 1:21 PM  

Calvinism is like autism: there is no point in trying to argue someone out of it, it's just a thing that they are.

Some good stuff comes along with the autism, in the right contexts.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 1:22 PM  

"Now, how does this change the discussion at all?"

The second verse that I mentioned, 1 Corinthians 7:2, is really the more relevant point. It has generally been interpreted as a "soft ordinance".

I'm not saying that polygamy is, absolutely and always, a sin. But there are lots of things that fall into the category of "shouldn't be done without exceptional circumstances" with regards to Christian behavior. That's my point.

---

"They are also explicitly forbidden from having unruly children. I'll put more stock in you proclamations when you are calling for bishops to be defrocked because their kids got in fights at school."

Yes, Nate, because the absolute prohibition on a very obvious situation (polygamy) is *exactly* the same as as defining "well-behaved".

That said, yes, I absolutely would support defrocking someone whose children are wild, *for the exact reason cited in Scripture* - that it's a clear indicator he's not capable of adequate leadership.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 14, 2017 1:27 PM  

Irrelevant. Polygamy is observably dyscivic and probably dyscivilizational. But it is not a sin, nor is it barred to the Christian.

@129 VD
The Catholic Church has historically banned it and declared it a sin, and I'm pretty sure Eastern Orthodoxy does too. And the early Christians AFAIK were all monogamous, suggesting that they've never allowed polygamy ever in history.

If polygamy isn't explicitly banned by Scripture, it is by Tradition. I really wonder why sola scriptura Protestants haven't ever pushed for polygamy... after all, it would be only consistent.

So, interesting question arising out of this: if you could make interracial marriage illegal, would you? And how does one judge what level of mixing is acceptable?

@134 rycamor
I'd make it illegal for whites to marry either blacks or Muslims at least, given how psychopathically hypocritical both groups are about the bad behavior of their own race/religion.

Not sure about other combinations. Maybe pure East Asians too.

Anonymous Anonymous June 14, 2017 1:27 PM  

Here is a relevant Piper video, shows how he thinks.

https://youtu.be/Q-VOyLgrEFU

Blogger SouthRon June 14, 2017 1:28 PM  

Pennywise wrote:Regarding the Christian view toward interracial marriage, the wife of Moses wife was of another race. In Numbers 12:1-15, Aaron and Miriam were punished for criticizing this interracial marriage.

This is the same incorrect argument Piper makes in point 4, God severely disciplined the critics of one interracial marriage.

Go read all of Numbers 21. They spake against Moses because he married an Ethiopian woman. That is what moved them to speak, but you and Piper both err by omitting what they said. "Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?" They were incensed by what Moses had done and sought to exalt themselves over the man God had chosen to lead Israel.

God makes it obvious that this is why he punishes Miriam, because they spoke against Moses as God's prophet. They are not just questioning Moses' judgement in marrying a black woman. They are questioning God's judgement in choosing Moses. God doesn't even bring up Moses' wife.

Instead he says if there is a prophet I will speak to them darkly in dreams, but not Moses. He's special. I will speak to him mouth to mouth and he will see the similitude of the Lord.

Also notice it is Miriam and Aaron not Aaron and Miriam. She is leading and she is punished. Aaron, again, gets to count his blessings when God mercifully does not punish him severely for going with the flow, just as happened with the Golden Calf. These two stories may it patently obvious why God did not choose Aaron as leader of his people. He was no leader and neither was Miriam.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 1:28 PM  

@119. Pennywise

Read Saint Paul as to who is Spiritual, true, Israel, in this economy/dispensation? Spiritual Israel is not according to the flesh but of faith. Whoever claims Christ as Savior are Abraham's descendant and fellow heirs.

The Law Of Moses was given to the Hebrews for a specific task. Sure, there are principles that we can learn and apply to different circumstances but that which was given to the people of Israel, in expectation to the coming Messiah, was not for anyone else. Exceptions being given to those who became God Fearers, and yet, excluded from inner court.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 1:31 PM  

@139. SouthRon

"They are not just questioning Moses' judgement in marrying a black woman. They are questioning God's judgement in choosing Moses."

Yep. Echoes of Adam's "the woman you gave me made me do it."

It all comes down to pointing the finger to God and blaming Him.

Blogger Out of Nod June 14, 2017 1:32 PM  

On polygamy:

Let's be clear, polygamy is not allowed in the bible as a whole. Polygyny (a man having multiple wives) was BUT it came with warnings. The law says that kings were to not increase many wives for themselves (Deut. 17:17) and it was a disqualifier for eldership (1 Tim 3).

Biblically, the pattern of adultery displayed is when a wife sleeps with a man other then her husband - David and Bathsheba, the adultress in Proverbs, and Israel chasing foreign gods - both parties are guilty in this regard.

The one wife rule is a civil social concept in western society - albeit the aristocracy was known for having their "mistresses".

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 1:36 PM  

So, interesting question arising out of this: if you could make interracial marriage illegal, would you?

It's largely pointless to make a law against. Laws only work for a law abiding citizenry.

It would be more logical if interracial marriages were shunned so to speak. Daddy needs to cut his daughter off.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 14, 2017 1:38 PM  

@114
Calvin had Muslim tutors.

Name these tutors.

Here is one of Calvin's teachers, a Christian:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Corderius

From
https://infogalactic.com/info/John_Calvin

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 1:38 PM  

"It would be more logical if interracial marriages were shunned so to speak. Daddy needs to cut his daughter off."

Oh, you think most of them have fathers in their lives? That's adorable.

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 14, 2017 1:43 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:
But, if you're a Calvinist, you get to vape

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?


You'll have to ask Josh I suppose....

Anonymous Tipsy June 14, 2017 1:43 PM  

VD wrote:There are few to no examples of Christian civilizations where polygamy has been widely tolerated, let alone encouraged.

Irrelevant. Polygamy is observably dyscivic and probably dyscivilizational. But it is not a sin, nor is it barred to the Christian.


It is clearly dyscivilizational. In fact, I would go so far as to say that high culture and peaceful societies are not possible in a world where monogamy fails. Take, for example, the high rate of child and cousin marriage as well as sexual violence in the Islamic world. It's a direct result of polygamy which Islam sanctions.

As William Tucker writes:

This is why human societies everywhere and throughout all time have enforced some kind of rules on marriage and have frowned on extramarital affairs. The stability of the group is at stake. If people start flouting the rules of marriage, then the equilibrium is upset as growing numbers of males and females are left without mates. These individuals become disruptive, and the cohesion of the entire society is threatened. Monogamy does not maximize the interests of every participant. What it does is optimize everyone’s individual outcome in a way that maintains the integrity of the entire society, whose credo is “a girl for every boy, a boy for every girl.”

and

"...monogamy is the most peaceful and progressive way of organizing a human society. Dislike and distaste for anything that challenges the monogamous contract - easy divorce, widespread pornography, legalized prostitution, out-of-wedlock child bearing, blatant homosexuality - are not just narrow or prudish concerns. They come from an intelligent recognition that the monogamous contract is a fragile institution that can easily unravel if dissaffections become too widespread."

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 14, 2017 1:51 PM  

Can't you just feel the rays of the glory of Christ shining from that new humanity?

This might be Vox's line of the year.

As someone has already said, Piper is a decent Bible teacher anytime he (a) prepares in advance, and (b) is not talking about Calvinism, which is almost never.

Any time he shoots from the lip he is a train wreck waiting to happen. He's said some of the most boneheaded things I've ever read online from a Christian of reasonable repute, usually when he's in some live forum answering questions.

The sooner his influence dissipates, the better for the church.

Blogger Dos Voltz June 14, 2017 1:54 PM  

A friend sent me this wonderful summation, apparently it took a woman of color to "teach" Christ the error of his ways. Praise Judeo-Christ, who showed us how listening to minority women could change your mind, chock full of racist errors

"Jesus is astounded, the holy wind knocked out of him. A moment before, she was but a dog to him. In the next, the scales fall from his eyes as he listens to her and sees her for what she truly is, a woman of great faith, a moral exemplar, his teacher."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davidhenson/2012/09/jesus-was-not-colorblind-racial-slurs-and-the-syrophoenician-woman-lectionary/

I'm guessing this is gonna be pretty easy for the Ilk to pick apart.

Blogger Out of Nod June 14, 2017 1:56 PM  

DeepStrength wrote an awesome post on the subject of polygyny and even explaons where it is righteous (who'd of thought):

https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2016/09/14/polygyny/

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:14 PM  


it is not without cause that I call Calvinism the Theology of Satan.

i'll provide an example.

A young couple got married in their early 20s... and after a few years had little boy baby. At around a year of age the little fella died. Very sudden. Doc's said it was a heart thing. Nothing to be done. No one's fault.

This sent the couple, particularly the mother, into a downward spiral. She was shellshocked. She finally started to pull herself up a bit by focusing on why it happened. Why did her child die? She started with the church.

They went to the UMC and they asked their minister... why did my child die? Why did God let my child die? The minister told them God didn't do it. its a broken world and these things just happen.

That didn't satisfy her. She wanted a concrete reason.

So she went to a local catholic priest and asked him. She largely got the same answer.

Finally she went to a baptist church.. and talked to the baptist preacher. His first question she told him her story was, "Did you and your husband abstain before marriage?"

She said no. They had not.

Then he brought up King David... and told her God killed her child to punisher her for her sin of sexual immorality.

2 days later that young woman killed herself in despair.

Calvinism is the theology of Satan. It takes all the acts of Satan and attributes them to God.

It is abomination.

It is the worst form of heresy... perhaps even on par with the satanist mahammad worshipping ragheads.

A pox on John Calvin. May he burn in Hell.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:17 PM  

"It's a direct result of polygamy"

no. its the direct result of ragheads being ragheads.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:17 PM  

"By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?"

Juicing.

Anonymous Bruce June 14, 2017 2:19 PM  

I think Calvinism is a poor, inaccurate reading of the Bible as well but I don't think Calvinist theology is particularly susceptible to racial-liberalism/leftism. I can imagine Arminians, Lutherans, etc. displaying the same attitude. If anything, I think some forms of Calvinism, particularly hyper-Calvinism are more amenable to racialist thinking. Calvinists might be more comfortable with inequality given their emphasis on unconditional election, limited atonement, etc. The Christian, explicitly racialist Faith & Heritage website seems to be mostly Calvinists.

You would think that racialism/ethnic-ism would be more natural for Eastern Orthodox because they see autocephalous, national Churches as the norm.

Blogger Mocheirge June 14, 2017 2:22 PM  

Gen. Kong wrote:Cail Corishev wrote:

But, if you're a Calvinist, you get to vape

By the way, is there anything gayer than vaping?


You'll have to ask Josh I suppose....


This raises the curious question: If a vaping "Christian Hedonist" and Josh are in a room together... will the hedonist call Josh raciss?

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 2:24 PM  

Hey now, let's not be blaming that on the pastor being a Baptist. Actually, Calvinist Baptists are a contradiction in terms, given the origin of the Baptist movement.

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 2:25 PM  

Calvinism is the theology of Satan. It takes all the acts of Satan and attributes them to God.

(nods)

Now, I don't entirely discount the possibility that God is the intentional author of evil; it is not difficult for a game designer to understand why you might want to introduce a negative mechanic into your creation. And I don't pretend to understand God's intentions or His purpose for His Creation.

But if free will genuinely exists and the Bible is essentially true, then God is simply not the gleeful sadist that the Calvinist conception of Him makes Him appear to be from Man's perspective.

And the conceptual dodge about Man's will being simultaneously free and entirely pre-programmed is simply insulting.

Anonymous Tipsy June 14, 2017 2:25 PM  

Nate wrote:"It's a direct result of polygamy"

no. its the direct result of ragheads being ragheads.


Have you considered that these dyscivilizational traits, encouraged and abetted by polygamy, eventually get selected for in that society? Is it just a coincidence that every society in which polygamy is normalized, sexual violence, tribalism, consanguinity, corruption, low IQ, etc. are endemic?

Blogger rycamor June 14, 2017 2:27 PM  

Nate wrote:

Finally she went to a baptist church.. and talked to the baptist preacher. His first question she told him her story was, "Did you and your husband abstain before marriage?"

She said no. They had not.

Then he brought up King David... and told her God killed her child to punisher her for her sin of sexual immorality.

2 days later that young woman killed herself in despair.


How is this Calvinism? I never really thought of Baptists as Calvinists. And that statement is really not typical of any of the serious Calvinists I know (Presbyterian PCA types). The typical spergy Calvinist would be more likely to say "God pre-ordained that your baby should die, and it is not up to us to ask why."

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 2:28 PM  

@Nate

I can't believe I'm disagreeing with you.

But juicing /can/ have its purpose.

Unless you mean steroids. And then I agree.

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 2:30 PM  

Is it just a coincidence that every society in which polygamy is normalized, sexual violence, tribalism, consanguinity, corruption, low IQ, etc. are endemic?

No. And keep in mind that the secular West is functionally polygamous now, we just don't bother making the "relationships" official.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:30 PM  

'How is this Calvinism? I never really thought of Baptists as Calvinists.'

Branches of the same satanist tree.

Blogger rycamor June 14, 2017 2:31 PM  

S1AL wrote:"It would be more logical if interracial marriages were shunned so to speak. Daddy needs to cut his daughter off."

Oh, you think most of them have fathers in their lives? That's adorable.


I think this is more likely the crux of the issue. I have not seen *uniformly* negative fruit with interracial marriages. But the positive ones I have seen were with serious Christian families who assented due to the character of the person involved, rather than just some angry young girl choosing a ghetto thug to get back at dad & Teh Patarichy.

Blogger Markku June 14, 2017 2:31 PM  

The freemason is gaslighting. Ignore it.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT June 14, 2017 2:32 PM  

Apparently interracial marriage is marriage of peace.

Blogger rycamor June 14, 2017 2:33 PM  

Ransom Smith wrote:@Nate

I can't believe I'm disagreeing with you.

But juicing /can/ have its purpose.


Nate things juicing is rhetorically gay, not dialectically. Ergo, it is pointless to discuss.

Anonymous Nate's Date June 14, 2017 2:34 PM  

Let us point out that both Moldbug and Catholic Neo-Reactionaries have proven that Calvinists are the biggest threat to America.

For example, who runs the banks, the media, Wall Street and Hollywood? Who are Trump's top critics? Who craps the most on Red State working class whites? The answer lies in a small weird ethnic-religious cult ... called Calvinists.

Blogger Mocheirge June 14, 2017 2:35 PM  

Nate wrote:Finally she went to a baptist church.. and talked to the baptist preacher. His first question she told him her story was, "Did you and your husband abstain before marriage?"

She said no. They had not.

Then he brought up King David... and told her God killed her child to punisher her for her sin of sexual immorality.

2 days later that young woman killed herself in despair.

Calvinism is the theology of Satan. It takes all the acts of Satan and attributes them to God.


Umm, Baptists generally are the opposite of Calvinists in modern times. The exception would be Reformed Baptists, but this anecdote is precisely the point where they differ from Reformed Christians. From infogalactic: "Presbyterian and Reformed Christians base their case for infant baptism on Covenant theology. Covenant theology is a broad interpretative framework used to understand the Bible. Reformed Baptists are in many ways Reformed yet, as their name suggests, adhere to Believers Baptism."

A Reformed preacher would have assured her that the child was saved by virtue of her membership in the Covenant.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:36 PM  

"Have you considered that these dyscivilizational traits, encouraged and abetted by polygamy, eventually get selected for in that society?"

Spare the nature vs nurture BS. That question has long been answered. They are savages because they are born savages. Their DNA requires them to be savages.

Savagery is just a symptom.

Blogger Mom June 14, 2017 2:36 PM  

"Illegal to marry blacks or muslums"
Wait...one is skin color, the other religion.
The only qualifier for Christian marriage is, "are they a christian?"
It is not a sin to marry one who has lighter or darker skin than you.
Very foolish for women to sleep with thugs, of course.
Part of the story about Miriam and her being publicly humiliated is that most likely they didn't like the new sister-in-law's blackness. Notice how God DID NOT rebuke Moses for marrying that Ethiopian woman.
Our blood isn't tainted by intermarriage, it's tainted by sin.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 2:38 PM  

"'How is this Calvinism? I never really thought of Baptists as Calvinists.'

Branches of the same satanist tree."


Oh come on, now you're not even pretending to be accurate.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:38 PM  

"Let us point out that both Moldbug and Catholic Neo-Reactionaries have proven that Calvinists are the biggest threat to America. "

Jesus... knowing that I am on the side as Moldbug is enough to make me completely rethink my conclusions.

Blogger rycamor June 14, 2017 2:44 PM  

Confusing modern Baptists, who are by and large Dispensationalists, with Calvinists. Nate, I think you've been hitting the hooch a little too early today.

Unless you are thinking specifically of Reformed Baptists, which is a pretty small group.

No, IMHO the Baptist you are referring to above made the statement not out of theology but just because he is an asshole.

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:44 PM  

"Oh come on, now you're not even pretending to be accurate."

i simply point to the calivist claiming them in this very thread. What did he say? Jack Daniels was a baptist preacher?

Blogger exfarmkid June 14, 2017 2:44 PM  

I was a Bethel College student at the time and went to Bethlehem Baptist - once - in .... 1982 or 1983. Was told how incredible John Piper was. Heard him preach, didn't like him, and didn't go back.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 2:44 PM  

Am I missing something with the Moses marrying an Ethiopian woman comments?

Miriam was Midianite was she not?
Which unless I learned incorrectly, is basically Arabian.

Which isn't that distant from Moses

Blogger Nate June 14, 2017 2:45 PM  

"No, IMHO the Baptist you are referring to above made the statement not out of theology but just because he is an asshole."

asshole. calvinist. Same thing.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim June 14, 2017 2:46 PM  

From the Texas Murder link: "In the 2014 case, prosecutors declined to pursue the case for an unknown reason." How about No Justice, No Peace in this situation?
It is a mission from Satan himself that he would instruct those open to his suggestion out into the world and ravage anything that has civilized, Christian Order to it. So often I have pumped gas in a quiet town only to have that peace disrupted by booming vulgarities, as if a national anthem were being blast into the surrounding order as some kind of warning. I have read and heard accounts of men bragging about defiling daughters, wives, fiancee's, St. Patrick's day being a prime time to go "find white girls" and it all feels like some kind of meta-physical arson. "Oh, you built something nice and functional? Well I'm gonna burn it down." "Oh, you raised a girl to be moral and have high standards? Well let's see if I can ruin her life."
I am beginning to think that the ultimate fantasy shared by a majority of non-white non-Christians is to make every decent white person experience the same thing Jake Van Dorn felt as he watched his virginal daughter being violated in a porno theater after she skipped out on the Christian Youth Camp she was supposed to be attending. Weaponized Depravity.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 2:47 PM  

@Nate -

Yeah, but... he's a Calvinist. He can't help what he thinks. The foundation of the Baptist churches is in the Anabaptist belief in, you know, free-will Baptism.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 14, 2017 2:59 PM  

@170 Mom

It is not a sin to marry one who has lighter or darker skin than you.

Skin color is probably one of the least important traits involved. A marriage between a white person and a South Indian Christian will most likely be less problematic than between a white person and an albino sub-Saharan African.

The only qualifier for Christian marriage is, "are they a christian?"

Another silly statement. The Catholic Church, at least, has also placed bans on marrying the divorced, the mentally retarded, the insane, and so forth, even if they're adult Christians.

Notice how God DID NOT rebuke Moses for marrying that Ethiopian woman.

Ethiopians are in the northeast of Africa and, as anyone will tell you, are quite different from the groids the U.S. and increasingly Europe are suffering with. Ethiopians and Middle Easterners resemble each other far more closely than West African blacks and European whites.

Blogger SouthRon June 14, 2017 3:00 PM  

@Ransom. No, Miriam was Moses' Hebrew sister. Zipporah, his first wife, was Midianite.

Anonymous Tipsy June 14, 2017 3:10 PM  

Nate wrote:"Have you considered that these dyscivilizational traits, encouraged and abetted by polygamy, eventually get selected for in that society?"

Nate wrote:Spare the nature vs nurture BS. That question has long been answered. They are savages because they are born savages. Their DNA requires them to be savages.

Savagery is just a symptom.


Agreed. Savagery is a symptom of polygamous societies.

My point is that over time savagery is reinforced in the DNA by a polygamous society, because savagery (violence, cheating, lying, etc) confers a positive advantage (along with r selection type strategies) in the game theoretical rules governing reproduction within that society.

Conversely, in monogamous societies, cooperative traits are selected for, because, simply put, monogamy requires it. The K selection strategies of European and East Asian societies would not be viable if they were not monogamous.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 3:11 PM  

@162. Nate June 14, 2017 2:30 PM

You are Methodist, right?

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 3:16 PM  

I am not a Baptist but I probably incline more to Calvinism.

I just laugh at any and all who claim they have the answer to the "sovereignty of God and free will of man" conundrum.

God is Sovereign and gave us free will.
God knows the end from the beginning. We do not.
God does not know contingently. We do.
God does not change because there is nothing for Him to learn. We change because we learn.

Anonymous Tipsy June 14, 2017 3:20 PM  

VD wrote:Is it just a coincidence that every society in which polygamy is normalized, sexual violence, tribalism, consanguinity, corruption, low IQ, etc. are endemic?

No. And keep in mind that the secular West is functionally polygamous now, we just don't bother making the "relationships" official.


Agreed. This, in the long run, will destroy Western Civilization.

As Chesterton wrote (clearly with monogamy in mind): "The family instinct is the indestructible minimum of morality; the one germ of social consciousness. Whatever institution or idea we trust as a substitute for the family becomes a cold temple. The builder of that cold temple shall see his folly: the gradual dehumanization of his own children before his own eyes."

Blogger Student in Blue June 14, 2017 3:23 PM  

I just laugh at any and all who claim they have the answer to the "sovereignty of God and free will of man" conundrum.

Eh, the concept of God existing outside of time as we know it, and thus being there both past, present and future, makes said conundrum make perfect sense to me.

So thus, while we have free will, God has also already seen what we have done.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 14, 2017 3:26 PM  

@SouthRon

Right yes. My brain spasming.

Regardless, Midianites aren't black? They're descendants of Ismael.

Blogger Feather Blade June 14, 2017 3:26 PM  

Pretty sure that the question of having many wives or no (for those with no interest in being church elders) falls under the whole "Everything may be permissible, but not everything is beneficial" discussion in 1 Corinthians 10.

Why would any man with sense look at the misery and backbiting between the wives of one man (as shown in the Scriptures) or the idolatry that Solomon's wives seduced him into and say "Yes, this is how I want my daily life to look"?

Blogger VD June 14, 2017 3:29 PM  

Eh, the concept of God existing outside of time as we know it, and thus being there both past, present and future, makes said conundrum make perfect sense to me.

That's not sovereignty as they describe it. Or properly defined, for that matter. I'm fine with divine voliscience. But they require Divine puppet-mastery.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 14, 2017 3:32 PM  

The spirit of Rahab animates any leftist single woman who brings in a MENA young man, and then sleeps with him. It's two chapters in Joshua, which is a book about a violent group invading a civilized, citified region.

I'm Christian, raised Southern Baptist. We had one good Vacation Bible School week all about 'the red thread' of history, which pretty much eroticized sleeping with dangerous, foreign young men to impressionable teenage girls. Men keep wondering why these lefty, Christian women keep sleeping with Moslem invaders, without asking what their female teachers were teaching them, back when.

If you read the plain text, the King of Jericho heard there were spies about. These spies were from a group that had already violently invaded and burned down a few other cities. He did the responsible thing, and asked around, sent military men around to see if the reports of recon missions were true. He needed time to prepare.They were true. The single female, with no partner, no children, lied to the rulers and guardians of her city. This meant, further down the line, that the neighbors she had lived with her whole life- the ones living on this side of her, and that side of her, died horribly. People she knew, people she had grown up with, young and old, male and female, died by the sword of the invaders.

Read any news report these days,and answer me if this does not sound like a flashback summary.

Also, men invade,women invite. Her speech to the Israelis is " our men lack courage. We're all afraid of you. Protect me, and my family." She leaves out "screw the guys who fail my shit test, and I don't believe in our army, and I also sat on a big Vietcong gun and celebrated the imprisonment of POWs, but it's the same spirit of defeat.

The Old Testament was written by the people who were pretty comfortable engineering Jesus' death, and then blackening his character afterwards,and all of his followers. As a Christian, it's in my interest to at least listen and give shrift to the lives of people they have also tried to blacken. This means I read about the Egyptians-a settled, civilized nation that kept perking along for millenia after Moses tried to pull and insurrection, and then was expelled. I read about Greeks as if they were my own ancestors, instead of filthy Phoenicians. I read about Roman emperors with sympathy- I mean, honestly, Pontius Pilate sounds like a reasonable guy surrounded by religious hysterics. Justinian putting down both Blues and Greens bought a millenium of peace for regular people. He didn't lay a hand on the genuine bishop, just the violent insurrectionaries, left and right, Jewish, pagan, and Christian.

Everyone burned down their opponents cities, back when. We still do. The especial sting is insisting that it happened because they deserved if for not worshipping a foreigner's god.Greeks didn't blame Trojans for that fall, nor Persians for their losses. It's a jerk move.

Anonymous TotalRedPillage June 14, 2017 3:36 PM  

For any Churchian white woman who defends Piper in any way...tell them what Piper has said and implied about how he would NOT defend his wife from a violent rape/murder if an assailant broke into their home. I have wondered how Piper's wife feels, knowing how HE feels.

Ask this woman if she would like to be married to a man like Piper--ask her that FIRST...then hit her with this (I heard or read it somewhere better than this piece):

https://calvinistinternational.com/2015/12/23/john-piper-guns-and-civic-responsibility/

Anonymous Jonathan June 14, 2017 3:40 PM  

I was acquaintances with a half white (mother), half black girl in college. She looked more black than white, but didn't have the dindu nose and lips so she was quite attractive. I felt sorry for her because even though she was smart and spoke like a white person, her marital prospects were poor. White guys weren't interested in anything serious and she would have to accept ghetto if she went black.

So even when a mixed relationship doesn't produce a moron kid, it's not good for blacks or whites.

Blogger Jew613 June 14, 2017 3:41 PM  

Jamsco, there's an old joke about polygamy lots of wives lots of suffering.

Regardless of if you approve of interracial marriage or not, the moment the supreme court decided states couldn't regulate the racial aspects of marriage it became only a question of time until gay marriage was legalized.

Blogger S1AL June 14, 2017 3:45 PM  

Ariadne -

12 “Now then, please swear to me by the Lord that you will show kindness to my family, because I have shown kindness to you. Give me a sure sign 13 that you will spare the lives of my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all who belong to them—and that you will save us from death.”

That doesn't sound at all like the woman you're describing. And I'm not even addressing the part where she points out that God Almighty is clearly in the side of Israel, by virtue of His miracles.

But yeah, better to be burned with everyone else out of loyalty to all the other Molech-worshippers than now to God's will, right?

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 14, 2017 3:48 PM  

@190. Ariadne Umbrella

Then, how do you describe the events surrounding the conquering of Jericho that it is just the victor's view?

There is no New Testament without first having the Old.

Or, do you think that the Old Testament as we currently have in the the original languages corrupt?

Blogger Leo Anodos June 14, 2017 3:50 PM  

@118

Charlatan: "a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud."

Having listened to many of Piper's sermons, I'm just not seeing it. It's true he is culturally compromised on some key issues, which alone may be enough to condemn him in the harshest terms. But, let's make sure we condemn him for the right reasons. The reason is that he is in grave error. It is not because he is unskilled or a fraud.

Blogger Freddy June 14, 2017 3:56 PM  

Great argument

Blogger Freddy June 14, 2017 3:59 PM  

Moreover, regarding a debate with an Arminian is fruitless. I have discovered that I don't agree with one letter in one word in one sentence of the debate.

Blogger Elizabeth June 14, 2017 4:00 PM  

Darwinian Arminian wrote:Heh. There's another amusing aspect to all this. The couple that gave us the court victory that Piper so eagerly celebrates now also owed its existence to a few other sexual misadventures the church once tended to frown upon. The recent movie even acknowledged this. Richard Loving literally came from a "poor white trash" background and was decidedly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He first met Mildred Jeter when he was 17 and she was 11 and they dated on-and-off for a few years before the marriage took place after she'd just turned 18 and got pregnant out of wedlock and while he was in his mid-20s without regular employment.

One might ask if the church today smile upon a white couple with the same particulars to their marital arrangement, but then you realize there's an easy answer to that question: Of course not. No, today's enlightened and tolerant church would have quickly realized that the man in that relationship was a contemptible scoundrel, because in knocking up the girl before marrying her, he had just robbed the church from having the holiest presence that they could ever have in their pews: An unwed single mother, just like Jesus' mom was!


She was knocked up by a white man, who stepped up to the plate and married her. A black man would have been less likely to marry her.

Blogger Freddy June 14, 2017 4:03 PM  

Rushdoony is the bomb. Christian theonomy to the house! Yeah, if not God's law, man's law rules. " By what authority?"

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