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Tuesday, June 20, 2017

Mike Glyer doesn't like Larry Correia

He really, really doesn't like him:
Ultimately Correia remains enraged at me today because four years ago, I was one of the people (as were some of you) who said no to him when he wanted to help himself to the Best Novel Hugo. Not that I could actually stop that from happening, but when I started covering as news what Sad Puppies, Rabid Puppies, and everyone else had to say about the controversy (in their own words, with links to the rest of their posts), I had an impact by facilitating the growth of a new community of people who wanted to talk about these issues — most of them opposing the vandalism of an institution they had spent years building up.

In 2013, Correia had decided that someone with his sales figures and blog readership, who had twice had a book on the New York Times bestseller list (for a single week) deserved a Hugo, and started organizing his readers to make it happen. He didn’t think of the members of fandom as his neighbors or colleagues; he approached it like the raid culture of ancient times where you go and steal somebody’s cattle if you think you can get away with it. Despite all of the agitation he stirred up among his followers, he got only 101 nominations and failed to make the ballot.

Larry knew that since the previous summer’s raid hadn’t worked out as well as he’d hoped, to sack Troy, he would need more boats and warriors in 2014. He wrapped his nomination campaign in the flag of the culture wars. Literary awards don’t fire people up, but political motivations do. He called on readers to nominate himself plus selected friends and editors as a way to ”stick it to those SJWs”. His book made the final ballot with the third-highest number of nominating votes (184) and lost to Ancillary Justice. Two hundred votes is enough to do any amount of damage to the Hugo nominating ballot — but after two years of effort by a bestselling author, it doesn’t seem like much of a number.

In 2015 Correia gave the project to Brad Torgersen, his Patroclus, who couldn’t wait to don Larry’s armor and lead the Sad Puppies 3 campaign. Torgersen put together a slate composed of both willing and unwilling writers (with some demanding to be removed), and spearheaded his campaign with a series of abusive political tirades against the Worldcon voters. However, his band of award pirates soon discovered that the Agamemnon of their scenario was really Vox Day. His Rabid Puppies slate blanketed nearly all the Hugo categories, and his followers dictated the 2015 ballot. Larry Correia’s latest novel was one of the things on their slate, but despite three years spent jacking up his readers and colleagues to get him this award, at this point he refused his nomination, went back to his tent, and let everyone else go forward without him.

File 770 covered that story and became a place people gathered to discuss it, and correspondingly became a lightning rod for Larry Correia’s wrath. In the past two years, whenever my name or this site’s name is mentioned in comments on his blog he can always be counted on to erupt in a spew of obscenities about me — in fact, one of his followers regularly injects my name into the conversation just to see him go off. And that same spirit controlled what Correia said on Facebook, and wrote in his post. Likewise the blizzard of comments from Correia’s followers, filled with playground taunts and references to Japanese pornography and prison sex. And these things can be expected to continue because of his example and that they’re encouraged in his comment community.
Then again, Larry Correia really, really doesn't like China Mike either:
For those of you who aren’t familiar with the seedy underbelly of fandom, File 770 is a garbage gossip column website run by a scumbag named Mike Glyer. His whole shtick is to be a news aggregator for the sci-fi/fantasy business and collect links from people who actually create things for a living. He play acts at being an impartial journalist, but in reality everything he does is slanted to screw over anybody he doesn’t like.

He chums the water for his horde of psychos so they can go about forming internet lynch mobs, boycotts, and black ballings. But then he pretends to be all impartial and above the fray. If you ever want to lose all faith in humanity, read the comments there. His regulars range between basement dwelling goons, creepy weirdo stalkers, and angry rainbow haired social justice warriors.

If you are in any writer’s groups with conservative or libertarian authors in them, then you’ve inevitably heard about this shithole website. We mostly call it Vile 770 or File 666. At one point or another that page has tried to start shit with every author who gets on Glyer’s bad side. Because when you are ever the nail that sticks up, the File 770 crew are the hammer that wants to knock you back down. Luckily, they’re about as effective as a Fisher Price squeaky hammer. So mostly we just mock them.

No matter how big or small you are, if you write something that draws their ire, Glyer will link to you, write some passive aggressive misleading bullshit, and then his little minions will go out of their way to slander you. You are evil and their side is all goodness and light. Usually the slander is about how insignificant and unimportant their foes are, and how they totally don’t even know who you are, which is ironic coming from comments that are bizarrely fixated with your personal details. Across the board they are jealous, spiteful, and really kind of pathetic.

I drew his ire several years ago with my campaign to show that the Hugos were biased. Since Glyer has like 40 something Hugo nominations he took that personal. Go figure. (Sadly, I wish I was exaggerating that number).  He’s been linking back to me constantly ever since, always muck raking and shit stirring. He’ll usually post some passive aggressive thing about look how evil I am, his flying monkeys get riled up, and then he acts all innocent and says he was just reporting the news.

Since I’ve got nothing but contempt for the two faced bastard, I just delete his track backs and move on. I still come up a lot over there . My guess is he really hates me because unlike most authors I don’t dance around with fake politeness. They love fake politeness. They screw you over with impunity, and when you fight back, then they are all about “tone”.
The thing is, for all their mutual dislike, there is an amount of nuance here that may escape your attention. Larry correctly identifies the real problem at File 770 being the commenters, who are as nasty as they are mid-witted. I've never been able to discern if Mike Glyer truly shares many of their opinions - unlike them, he seems to grasp that I don't care about awards and I'm actually pretty good at what I do - or if he's simply stuck riding the tiger of his readership.

Regardless, the point is that there is more to this than mere personal dislike. The Pink/Blue divide in SF is substantive, ideological, and real, and it is a reflection of the primary divide in the USA that is cultural, ideological, and identity-based.

As for me, I stand by Larry, because he does not throw people under the bus to spare himself. He had every opportunity to do so, indeed, he was actively lobbied to do so by more than a few well-known people, and yet he refused. That is what men of character and integrity do. But I do think there is hope for Mike, if he can ever find the courage to reject the dishonesty and partisanship of his commenters and embrace the objective position that befits the true historian. The ironic thing is that he'd probably a) gain readership and b) never win another SF award if he did so.

Speaking of Puppies, don't forget to get your Dragon Award votes in. My recommendations are here.

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59 Comments:

Blogger Jew613 June 20, 2017 5:37 AM  

My favorite part of their exchange is when Mike Glyer tried to show file770 was more popular only to have it blow up in his face. I suppose that's another example of the first rule of sjws.

Blogger VD June 20, 2017 5:46 AM  

That was pretty funny; at least Glyer has the wit to be rueful about it rather than trying to pull off some Scalziesque "I totally meant to do that" gamma nonsense.

The punchline, of course, is that Alexa is not a traffic measure at all. It's a link measure used, inappropriately, as a traffic proxy.

Blogger Alexandru Constantin June 20, 2017 6:08 AM  

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Ohh I see some of Glyer's readers hopped on over. Welcome.

Blogger VD June 20, 2017 6:17 AM  

Okay, I usually delete responses to spam and trolls, but that was a keeper.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 20, 2017 6:35 AM  

I wouldn't say Glyer is a bad human being, in a moral sense, but he IS more than a bit contemptible for his failure to exercise any control or ensure any civility on Vile 770 (sic).

Blogger Alexandru Constantin June 20, 2017 6:50 AM  

VD wrote:Okay, I usually delete responses to spam and trolls, but that was a keeper.

I figured you would but I couldn't resist.

Anonymous Fred Vampire Slayer June 20, 2017 6:51 AM  

Larry won my heart over when the whole "cuckservative" thing was going around (spread by Nazis) and Larry alone stood with Nick Searcy and Nick's black son. Rumor has it that Larry helped the Cruz campaign get Ricky Vaughn and a bunch of other Nazis banned from Twitter, which is also worthy of mention.

Anonymous Scazi June 20, 2017 7:16 AM  

Kind of sounds like Vox talking about me....

Anonymous Coal Fired Brisket June 20, 2017 7:18 AM  

You do realize moral posturing and not being racist won't save you from liberals?

Blogger Matthew June 20, 2017 7:27 AM  

Fred Vampire Slayer wrote:Larry won my heart over when the whole "cuckservative" thing was going around (spread by Nazis) and Larry alone stood with Nick Searcy and Nick's black son. Rumor has it that Larry helped the Cruz campaign get Ricky Vaughn and a bunch of other Nazis banned from Twitter, which is also worthy of mention.

Gay.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 20, 2017 7:37 AM  

Yep rabid teen aged girls trapped in fat man bodies.

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 20, 2017 8:07 AM  

I don't follow any of the SF soap opera at all, so I have no knowledge of the details. But this stuck out at me as utter B.S.: "Larry Correia’s latest novel was one of the things on their slate, but despite three years spent jacking up his readers and colleagues to get him this award, at this point he refused his nomination, went back to his tent, and let everyone else go forward without him."

Right. I'm supposed to believe that Larry is such a whoring narcissist just out for himself that he would walk away from the possibility of getting the award that he supposedly had worked tirelessly to obtain. Yeah, right, I'm buying that.

Sorry, try that crap on someone who follows your B.S. unthinkingly. Others will sniff it out.

Anonymous Blue Manticore June 20, 2017 8:24 AM  

Coal Fired Brisket wrote:You do realize moral posturing and not being racist won't save you from liberals?

Obvious random troll (unironic us of the N word + and 'X black son'). Having said that those things you mention don't seem to save liberals from liberals.

Moral posturing is a bit too harsh but a lot of the rhetoric constituting that is a knee-jerk reaction to brow-beating along the 'It's either us or them', 'You're either with us or against us', 'this is the only practical solution' lines.

(Being told Comrade Stalin is a good man, practically a priest we have no choice but to trust him and give him whatever he wants in return)

Blogger The Kurgan June 20, 2017 8:25 AM  

Vox,
I love you man, but sometimes you're as retarded as I am with certain topics.
At least my "topics" are very good in bed though.

Mike Glyer is pond scum and he should be set on fire before being forced to run into the no-man's land of the cultural war as a kind of night flare.

Blogger VD June 20, 2017 9:14 AM  

I love you man, but sometimes you're as retarded as I am with certain topics.

The difference is that I understand the difference between:

A rival
An opponent
An enemy who can be driven away
An enemy who can be defeated
An implacable enemy

You want to pile all their skulls into one giant pyramid. I am more moderate and seek no more skulls than are required for victory and peace.

Blogger Iron Spartan June 20, 2017 9:18 AM  

You don't get nominated for 50 Hugos for best fellatio skills and keep any redeemable traits.

Blogger The Kurgan June 20, 2017 9:21 AM  

You want to pile all their skulls into one giant pyramid

Well. Yeah.
But it's because I'm a true pacifist.
I want LASTING peace.
You moderates cause ongoing generational wars.
Also: Caanites. Deus Vult.

Blogger S1AL June 20, 2017 9:40 AM  

Going full Carolus Rex probably won't work out any better for you than it did for him.

Blogger modsquad June 20, 2017 10:01 AM  

Is this The Wives of Beverly Hills? No one cares about drama queens, no matter what field they're in.

Anonymous fop June 20, 2017 10:03 AM  

@5
Kratman laments lack of civility on internet.

Also, Ru Paul thinks TV is just too gay.

Blogger slarrow June 20, 2017 10:09 AM  

Oh, Glyer. SJW Law #3.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 20, 2017 10:19 AM  

15. VD June 20, 2017 9:14 AM
I am more moderate and seek no more skulls than are required for victory and peace.



equivocator! heretic! MODERATE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-gSJW3sHXE

sanity is for the weak.



12. Duke Norfolk June 20, 2017 8:07 AM
Right. I'm supposed to believe that Larry is such a whoring narcissist just out for himself that he would walk away from the possibility of getting the award that he supposedly had worked tirelessly to obtain. Yeah, right, I'm buying that.



yeah, that's the funniest part of Glyer's new post. Larry's actions prove that, just as he's said all along, he doesn't really give a damn about the Hugos.

but the guy with ~40 noms can't even conceive that it's possible that someone else doesn't care about them ... so projects his own fixation onto everyone else.

Blogger Jon D. June 20, 2017 10:26 AM  

This started on my facebook wall after I called Mike out for censoring my comments on the site. The site got very nasty to me in the weeks preceding my book launch, attacking me almost daily (funny how the commentors would unanimously declare how irrelevant I was while htey did so). I made mention, Mike showed up with a glib comment, Larry laid the smack down and it escalated from there.

Mike sets up the comments like this. He makes it look somewhat innocuous, but frames it as an attack and gets the commenters riled up intentionally. It's a nasty game. At first I tried to talk to him, because I figured okay, I used to hang with a lot of the crowd he hangs with, a lot now hating me but a lot also don't because they at least had some loyalty and real friendship. We talked SF, authors we both like, history, I thought we'd come to a mutual respect.

And then he dialed it up even further on his site. People posted weird poems about me, and then the comments went even further, swearing about me, calling me a liar, making racist comments about my hispanic last name, it was way over the line. Even Mike gave me a quote to say that it was unacceptable for my blog (though I'll note those awful comments were left up while he has censored mine that look a lot like this, so I'm going to have to take that as he endorses them now).

I responded by just responding. I'd take stuff that was important to me and talk about it in his comments. The attacks got even nastier -- and from bigger fish. Even President of SFWA Cat Rambo couldn't resist. I'd never talked to her before except helping out with an anthology where she had a short story published, but she was extremely rude calling my writing "egregious stupidity."

I took the tack of killing them with kindness. The bigger names and the tordotcom writers I'd just tag on twitter with my book promotions. They're supposed to be all about SF right? Well, of course they flipped the heck out with that as if they were innocent little babies who never came and attacked me.

Mike then messaged me repeating his commenters nasty lies about me, and blocked me. He followed up with a hit piece that had comments turned off.

That's the kind of guy he is. I tried my hardest. I reached out an olive branch. It was false platitudes on the other side. SJW through and through and you can never reason with or trust them, that's the lesson about this all. It sucks, cuz I'm just trying to sell fun books -- but the hate they have goes deeper, it's based on who I am, based on my identity that is contrary to their narrative. And the narrative is their religion, which makes me a heretic.

Larry was a lot harsher than I would have been, I just can't talk to people that way, but at the core of it, he's right.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 20, 2017 10:39 AM  

all hispanics are Mexican.

all Mexicans are rapists.

Mexico isn't sending us their best rapists, which is why we have to build a wall.

Anonymous Steve June 20, 2017 10:43 AM  

You want to pile all their skulls into one giant pyramid.

To be fair, the Kurgan is no mere headhunting barbarian. He also wants a ziggurat of femurs.

Blogger slarrow June 20, 2017 10:49 AM  

Jon, you're following the Brad Torgerson path. He also tried operating in good faith, hoping and waiting for it to be reciprocated. He learned how well that worked. But now he knows the nature of his opposition, and knowing the truth is healing. It helps you do your work, embrace your friends and allies, and not expect too much from your opponents and enemies.

Keep on keeping on. After all, it's great to be a heretic to a false religion.

Blogger B.J. June 20, 2017 10:53 AM  

Glyer is a liar, of course.

The genesis of Sad Puppies (as I understand it) was Larry mentioning that he would never win a Hugo because the Pink SF gatekeepers would never allow it. This statement alone could have been dismissed as sour grapes, but the SJWs couldn't leave it alone. They went and provoked Larry by taunting him saying there was no gatekeeping, he was just a terrible writer. Larry set out to prove them wrong.

So the purpose of Sad Puppies was never to win an award, but always to prove that gatekeeping in SciFi/Fantasy publishing existed, and it that respect it has been objectively successful. Larry said he ever received a nomination they would go nuts, he got a nomination and they went nuts. Point proven.

After that it became an attempt to just give authors who weren't willing to play ball and kiss ass more exposure.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 20, 2017 10:59 AM  

27. B.J. June 20, 2017 10:53 AM
So the purpose of Sad Puppies was never to win an award, but always to prove that gatekeeping in SciFi/Fantasy publishing existed, and it that respect it has been objectively successful.



reality conforms more closely to Larry's hypothesis than Gliar's?

get outta here, you and your facts and your historical knowledge of the situation.

Blogger Matthew June 20, 2017 11:00 AM  

Kurgan, why would you waste ammo shooting pond scum?

Blogger Matthew June 20, 2017 11:01 AM  

You can't destroy the pond scum (well, maybe with some Prussic acid), but you can point it out to others so they don't get slimed.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 20, 2017 11:05 AM  

29. Matthew June 20, 2017 11:00 AM
Kurgan, why would you waste ammo shooting pond scum?


a - he didn't say he was going to. he just said we should shove Gliar out into No Man's Land after torching him. it's not our fault if Gliar then becomes a bullet magnet for the Left

b - old inventory is liable to go off and give you a lot of misfires. best to rotate stock.

Blogger SouthRon June 20, 2017 11:16 AM  

When you're using Cameltoe Fapatron as source material your fan-writing days are coming to an end. That can only lead to the SF Bukkakalypse.

Blogger Rabbi B June 20, 2017 11:17 AM  

You want to pile all their skulls into one giant pyramid.

Nuclear Kurgan is best Kurgan.

Blogger David The Good June 20, 2017 11:32 AM  

Pond scum is good for compost piles. Rots down very fast.

Blogger Chiva June 20, 2017 11:34 AM  

Nuclear Kurgan is best Kurgan.

It's better to burn out than to fade away! - The Kurgan from Highlander.

Anonymous kfg June 20, 2017 12:08 PM  

"Mike Glyer doesn't like Larry Correia"

Who knew?

" . . . most of them opposing the vandalism of an institution they had spent years building up."

Oooooooooh, the irony.

Blogger Amos Bellomy June 20, 2017 12:32 PM  

Tb
He idea of Vox as a moderate makes me chuckle.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 20, 2017 12:32 PM  

I had an impact by facilitating the growth of a new community of people who wanted to talk about these issues — most of them opposing the vandalism of an institution they had spent years building up.
Gamma boy's whole self-image is centered around the approval he gets from his audience of pink-haired she-twinks, SJWs, low-talent affirmative action writers, masculinity hating low-T pajama boyz, pedophiles, and whatever you call Alexandra Erin.

Torgersen put together a slate composed of both willing and unwilling writers (with some demanding to be removed) because of the threats of lost publishing contracts and even physical harm. FTFY

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 20, 2017 12:44 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:whatever you call Alexandra Erin.
Just occurred to me, I could have listed him as "All of the above."
Low talent pink-haired, masculinity hating, low-T she-twink SJW pajama boy pedophile wanna-be affirmative action writer, Alexandra Erin.
Yep, it fits.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab June 20, 2017 12:50 PM  

Hey, I was calling him Cameltoe Fapatron first. Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Anonymous kfg June 20, 2017 12:53 PM  

" . . .whatever you call Alexandra Erin."

You can call it anything you want. Just don't call it early for dinner.

Anonymous VFM 6184 June 20, 2017 1:24 PM  

Miglie's particular flavor of passive aggressiveness sets my blood to boiling. Even weasels like Cameltoe Felfapton don't grate as much as Miglie does.

Probably because Miglie isn't even too clever by half, and what he thinks Machiavelli-smooth and subtle is more like Jim Carrey crunchy.

Yet another keyboard warrior who wouldn't have the fortitude to man up and speak his peace in person, I'd wager

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 20, 2017 1:31 PM  

VFM 6184 wrote:Yet another keyboard warrior who wouldn't have the fortitude to man up and speak his peace in person, I'd wager
He won't man up and say what he means on his blog, why would he do it in person?

Anonymous WaterBoy June 20, 2017 1:43 PM  

David the Good @24: "Pond scum is good for compost piles. Rots down very fast."

Composting those enemies is killing two birds with one stone....

Blogger tublecane June 20, 2017 3:59 PM  

That Glyer piece is very obviously propaganda, and I'm only passingly familiar with the Puppies saga. He is half-honest, which makes it ineffectual (except as a guide to people already inclined to trust him). Notice how, after he says Correia "wanted to help himself to the Best Novel Hugo" (ignore that snarkiness for the moment), he says "Not that I could actually stop that from happening." Implying he wanted to stop it from happening. I have no idea why he throws that in, because it gives away the game before he lays out the oh-so Imparting Journalist of damning the other side with their own words and incidentally riling up his audience. Oops.

Now he starts talking about "raid culture," but Correia was already "helping himself," and he already talked about vandalism. There's supposed to be some sort of escalation of hostilities, but the other side was wrong from the beginning, so what's the difference?

The worst part of the article is the way he butchers the Iliad. I presume he came up with that analogy in the midst of writing, and didn't go back and make it plausibly fit the narrative. So it's out of order and doesn't make sense,except to say the Greeks were thieves and Troy deserved to stand. Except as I remember it they were trying to steal back the wife a Trojan stole from them.

Blogger Koanic June 20, 2017 4:13 PM  

The Pink/Blue divide is biological, and winter comes.

Anonymous LGrin June 20, 2017 4:46 PM  

Tublecane; he says "Not that I could actually stop that from happening." Implying he wanted to stop it from happening.

He's not implying anything. Literally the sentence right before that, he says he "I was one of the people (as were some of you) who said no to him when he wanted to help himself to the Best Novel Hugo."

Of course he wanted to stop it.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 20, 2017 4:57 PM  

@20

Just to be up front here, you're an idiot. I did not lament lack of civility on the internet. I commented on the contempt I feel for someone who cannot maintain a justified and reasonable degree of civility on his own board. These, though you are plainly too stupid to see it, are different matters.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 20, 2017 4:57 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Jeff Weimer June 20, 2017 5:06 PM  

Canestros sowed up in Larry's thread to semi-white Knight on behalf of Glyer and got jumped on for his usual oily arguments. He likes to try to make everyone argue on his terms before engaging and they weren't having it.

Anonymous Ossified June 20, 2017 5:11 PM  

Larry?

Blogger tublecane June 20, 2017 5:45 PM  

@46-Maybe I didn't put that the best way. I meant to say implying that he would try to stop it from happening going forward with the next thing he did, which he presents as an objective news story which his audience used for its own purposes. This talking out of both sides of his mouth thing is tiresome.

Blogger Pseudotsuga June 20, 2017 6:29 PM  

The more I read about the kind of people who make up the (rotten) core of SF/F fandom, the more I lament the loss of liberal Western culture.

Anonymous VFM 6184 June 20, 2017 7:13 PM  

@Snidely

"He won't man up and say what he means on his blog, why would he do it in person?"

Precisely, though someone up-thread hit on the point of him being "half-honest". That, I think, in concert with him being "half-manly" is what I find contemptible.

Miglie would be better served being either honest or a complete liar...half measures.

Blogger Happy LP9 June 20, 2017 8:04 PM  

What and who is starting to hate on Mr and Mrs C Wright then on Larry Correia? just within 24 to 28 hours apart?

What the hell?!

You haters think this flies in your circles but it wont in mine, mine are larger, quiet and obscure, we or I like Wright and Correia

They have support.

Loyalty, linking and encouraging matters.

Blogger Happy LP9 June 20, 2017 8:05 PM  

This is almost a distraction from what is taking place in Georgia right now, votes.

Correia and Wright have my support. Stop attacking them.

Blogger sothea hy June 20, 2017 9:39 PM  

I agree that this is tricky and shouldn't by tried by the Vox Days or the Thomas Howards, but I think there are some who have the skills and the personal audience to pull it off.
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Blogger Were-Puppy June 20, 2017 11:52 PM  

I love LC but had to quit going to MHN during the primaries because of cruzlims.

Maybe time to go back and see whats happening.

Blogger wreckage June 21, 2017 4:21 AM  

I think my daughter said it best, when she said "All of Fandom is cancer".

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