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Thursday, June 29, 2017

Oh, the irony

In case you didn't believe my observation that Americans simply do not grasp the concept of distinct European nations.
Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
White Nationalist fantasies notwithstanding, Europeans no more identify as Europeans than white Americans identify as European-Americans.

ItalianaforTrump‏@LifeLuvr1205
European American here. 👍🏻🇮🇹
Sometimes... communication gap... I can't... what... it... no... WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU MORONS?

Now I recall why I was so relieved to leave Twitter. It's not just the combination of stupidity and ignorance that I find unnerving, so much as the gloss of gleeful smugness that coats it.

Labels:

260 Comments:

1 – 200 of 260 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Sillon Bono June 29, 2017 12:27 PM  

European American here

Sillon spits all the coffee over the screen. X-D

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 12:30 PM  

Listen, @EuropianaforTrump

--wait, that's not her name

Anonymous Grayman June 29, 2017 12:33 PM  

Vox,

to be fair your working against full spectrum social programming that has been applied to most minds since before pre-school. You are fighting decades of social conditioning. Very little short of blood and fire will undue that to any significant degree.
Those who share your views and the general alt-x spectrum are most likely those who were able to transcend the programming or at least recognize that it was a facade and look for whats behind it.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 12:35 PM  

I'm gonna sperg for a second here - "European-American" is a result of conflating genetic origin with modern notions of ethnicity. It all started with the "African-American" political correctness crap. This is what a shifting vernacular looks like. She's "not even wrong".

/sperg

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 29, 2017 12:36 PM  

Well, she is Italian instead of a white American so it isn't an entirely inaccurate label. European-American is an appropriate term for an American to use to describe a foreigner from Europe with a US passport. But I think they are still just generally called ethnic whites.

But it makes no sense as a term of self-identification unless she just wants to emphasize that she is a migrant without an identity. It would be like living in Japan and having "gaijin" as your only cultural/ethnic identity.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 12:39 PM  

Vox's point is that no European self-identifies as European. And even the ONE person who gainsaid this, managed to identify herself EXACTLY as Vox claims.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 12:39 PM  

Well, she is Italian instead of a white American so it isn't an entirely inaccurate label.

Whoosh.

Blogger Nationalist Flicka June 29, 2017 12:45 PM  

Funny thing is--she's probably got a great, great, great grandmother from Italy.

Anyone with 5% of Italian ancestry here likes to put forth some fantasy that they just got off the boat.

If I see one more meme saying "Italian girls be like...."



Anonymous carnaby June 29, 2017 12:47 PM  

American American here. Although Canada considers me an honorary Canadian. I sometimes identify as a Canadian American, but mostly I'm an American Canadian. On odd days I identify as a toaster. And my neighbor enjoys espresso.

Anonymous Proud WASP June 29, 2017 12:48 PM  

Wops are not white. Like the Irish, they are not even human. Grease Balls need to go back!

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 12:50 PM  

Same with the damn Irish, Flicka. I have trouble wrapping my brain around the notion, since the only identity I've ever held is "American". It doesn't make any sense to me to give a damn which boat your ancestor 4 generations removed stepped off.

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2017 12:50 PM  

And even the ONE person who gainsaid this, managed to identify herself EXACTLY as Vox claims.

To continue pointing out the obvious:

Her name is ItalianaforTrump. Not EuropeanistaforTrump.

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 29, 2017 12:52 PM  

@10 Exactly. But if they want to be called European-American to distinguish them from lesser foreigners, we can extend that courtesy as long as it takes them to pack.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky June 29, 2017 12:52 PM  

So many people cannot handle any talk that uses collective nouns. They have zero facility with concepts. They cannot be stopped from NA_ALT anecdotes and so forth, and thinking they've made a great contribution. Can't be stopped.

You can't teach them the ropes on this, they cannot learn, they will not.

Blogger Nobody of Consequence June 29, 2017 12:56 PM  

American - any one from a couple dozen countries in the Americas. American - ignorant use of word for people from the United States of America. What are the United States? Well the US IS NOT a nation. How do we know? In 1787, all references to the USA as a nation and the government as national were removed from the preliminary document BECAUSE the Framers were NOT forming a nation. See Elliot's Debates. No where in the Constitution is the US referred to in the singular. Every reference is plural as in "their enemies" or "any of them". The socialist lie that has been used to brain-wash the idiots of America is known as the Pledge. So the idiots of today are brain-washed and have no idea that the US are 50 nations assembled in a Union, that is SUPPOSED to have EXTREMELY limited powers. The Framers spin in their graves when the lie is recited. Each of us in the US is from a nation, usually called a state which is === to nation (See Declaration of Independence).

Blogger Keyser Soze June 29, 2017 12:58 PM  

I'm so sick of those people, in particular Americans of Italian heritage. Ask'em, I'm Italian? Ever been to Italy? Born there? Speak Italian? Nope you ain't f'ing Italian. Then they do the mafia connection bullshit! "I know people". Bullshit!

Anonymous zip zap rap June 29, 2017 1:02 PM  

Speaking of morons, drop your idiotic belief that mestizos will ethnically cleanse the U.S. The "evidence" you cite, tens of thousands of dead in Mexico over the last few years, is mestizo-on-mestizo violence from the drug war. Every Central and South American country has minority races who are living in peace.

By the way, since you're a proponent of ethno-nationalism why are you living in Italy? Should they repatriate you?

Anonymous Anonymous June 29, 2017 1:02 PM  

Just recently I chatted with an older woman while going through the security line at O'Hare Airport. She insisted to me that she was European. I had to pin her down to get her to admit she was from Alsace. She hated admitting she was anything but European. It was a weird conversation.

Thuvia

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 29, 2017 1:05 PM  

@4 Yeah, in addition to being inaccurate, African-American seems insulting to blacks. Instead of being called black, it is like they are saying "please put me on the level of a foreigner in my native country". African-American and European-American are really just useful for Americans to use if they want to describe foreigners with US passports and feel the need for a more specific term than "foreigner" (perhaps in the context of pointing to the correct boat home). They are completely inappropriate to apply to native whites and blacks and seem to be an attempt to shoehorn them into the nation of immigrants terminology.

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 29, 2017 1:07 PM  

@7 Nah

Blogger praetorian June 29, 2017 1:07 PM  

I think to some extend an European-American (White) identity is being memed into existence, mainly by the left. Whites are attacked as whites in America and are increasingly responding as whites. But it is an emerging identity, not an existing one.

I don't think it will last very long: I expect it will eventually fracture along regional lines: Cascadia, Midwest, High West, Deseret, etc. and while I defer to Vox on European matters, I do think the situation in america is different and more fluid.

Anonymous Mathias June 29, 2017 1:09 PM  

Texas, it's a whole other country. Mostly filled with Carolinan Scotch-Irish and Czechs. You can make similar statements about any State of the USA. What is an American again?

Anonymous The Marble Man June 29, 2017 1:18 PM  

The commenters insinuating that the Irish and Italians "have to go back" are out-retarding the alt-retard by a country mile.

Blogger seeingsights June 29, 2017 1:20 PM  

Every European I've interacted with does not identify as "European" first, but identifies by nationality. Even in the UK, a Scot says that he's a Scot, not a Brit.

Anonymous Stickwick June 29, 2017 1:20 PM  

carnaby: American American here. Although Canada considers me an honorary Canadian. I sometimes identify as a Canadian American, but mostly I'm an American Canadian. On odd days I identify as a toaster. And my neighbor enjoys espresso.

Same here, except on even days I identify as a Cuisinart.

Blogger August June 29, 2017 1:22 PM  

I got a strong impression that mitochondria might have more to do with race than skin color. I may need to go look some of this stuff up, but it seemed like there's more different mitochondrial dna among whites than in other races. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding, or something to do with how many studies have been done in the West versus everywhere else.
But, if mitochondria is mostly responsible for race, then this could explain why plenty of our own 'race' make us want avoid them- assuming there's some kind of selection for similar mitochondrial dna.

Blogger Mastermind June 29, 2017 1:24 PM  

So if Europeans don't identify as European why did they create the European Union and keep voting for pro-EU politicians? I think VD is grossly overstating the lack of European identity, nor are European identity and national identity mutually exclusive in the first place.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar June 29, 2017 1:24 PM  

I blame media and public education.

Anonymous Northern Observer June 29, 2017 1:24 PM  

Is 'white American' a thing? If so, what's the different between a white American and a European American?

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 29, 2017 1:27 PM  

Make Europe America Again!

Blogger Some Guy June 29, 2017 1:27 PM  

@Northern

There is such a thing as a white American. There are no European Americans, so there's that.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 29, 2017 1:27 PM  

This is why I can't take white nationalism seriously. There is such as a white person from an ethnic standpoint, even in the US. Virginians don't have a lot in common with Floridians who don't have a lot in common with New Yorkers.

If we want the US to survive past this century, this is one of the realities we need to accept.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 1:29 PM  

So if Europeans don't identify as European why did they create the European Union

Because it was not sold to us as an identity, but as an alliance that would allow us to compete with USA. Every step of the way they assured us that we'd retain our national identities, and only cooperate for business.

Anonymous Urban II June 29, 2017 1:31 PM  

True. Besides, this fact isnt limited to the Irish and Italian. Croatian Americans celebrate Croatian Independence Day during Memorial Day weekend. They wave the flag of Croatia, not the flag of Europe.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 1:31 PM  

So if Europeans don't identify as European why did they create the European Union and keep voting for pro-EU politicians? I think VD is grossly overstating the lack of European identity, nor are European identity and national identity mutually exclusive in the first place.

You clearly have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about.

Basta bugie,
No UE!


The EU lied, blatantly and repeatedly, to Europeans, and bought them off with massive loans and grants.

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 29, 2017 1:33 PM  

Kim Jong Un is Chicago Bull-Korean. That's why he's so good at maintaining space between himself and the other two post players in the area.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 1:33 PM  

It's still an effective pro-EU meme. That any anti-EU sentiment is just a ploy by Americans or Russians (whoever happens to be the number one rival at a time) to keep us divided, so that they get to be the only economic powerhouse out there.

Blogger Ceerilan June 29, 2017 1:36 PM  

@6
"Vox's point is that no European self-identifies as European. And even the ONE person who gainsaid this, managed to identify herself EXACTLY as Vox claims."

This. Vox, please tell us you mocked her for her stupidity...

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2017 1:36 PM  

It doesn't make any sense to me to give a damn which boat your ancestor 4 generations removed stepped off.

Previous generations cared more about that, and we will again. The question in America is: when whites get fed up with the multi-cult globalist program, will they rally under the banner of "white American" (which I gather is the alt-White's goal), or will they, like the Europeans, split more narrowly along real national/ethnic lines? Will Scots-Irish Southrons, German Midwesterners, and Puritan Yankees all come to think of themselves and each other as "White," or will they divide into those different groups and fight to preserve their own group?

I tend to think it's the latter. There are already far more Americans who take pride in their German, Irish, Italian, etc. heritage than those who take pride in being generally White. As whites decide it's okay to be interested in and proud of their heritage again, that interest will lead to discovering their true heritage, not stopping at just "White." While some people are a true mix of white ethnicities with none dominant, most aren't. Most family trees lead mostly to one source.

That doesn't mean we'll split up and go to war against each other; it just means the hope of forming a "White American" nationality is probably a forlorn one. At best, that looks like a transitional phase for individuals who get interested in their white heritage before going deeper. We can still ally against the globalists -- perhaps better -- as multiple, internally cohesive, American nations.

Anonymous Mark June 29, 2017 1:37 PM  

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU MORONS?

Whites around the world generally do have shared values, culture, history - moreso than between whites/arabs, whites/asians, whites/latinos or (dareisay) whites/jews. GENERALLY SPEAKING. (pointing out the rare counterexception cough albania is a cultural-marxist tactic!) And GENERALLY we share the same physiological/social affliction that has led to demographic displacement in MOST of our countries. (GENERALLY imo we would agree that this is a core problem)

I haven't seen anyone argue for the establishment of a white United States of EU. Red Herring.

I have seen calls for cooperation, learning between nationalists across various white nations. IMO this is proper and useful. Even indispensable. Focus on what unites us, not on what separates us.

I see many very useful points of view on this blog. If there is failure to communicate, perhaps it lies with Vox. A leader's job is to build unity and shared vision. That requires a great deal of message tweaking and repetition, empathy and even love for our allies despite their flaws.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 1:40 PM  

I think the guy was just being honest. The butthurt scoffing at him wreaks cosmopolitan coastal elitism. I think you folks need to ask yourself why you're working so zealously to deny these peoples' identities. What do you care if young people identify as white or European?

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 1:41 PM  

"ItalianaforTrump" is obviously a girl.

Blogger Some Guy June 29, 2017 1:41 PM  

@Mark

" If there is failure to communicate, perhaps it lies with Vox. A leader's job is to build unity and shared vision. That requires a great deal of message tweaking and repetition, empathy and even love for our allies despite their flaws."

Vox is clearly laying out a vision. Love doesn't work historically like you think it does. Historically, a swift kick in the ass is preferable.

Blogger Some Guy June 29, 2017 1:43 PM  

@Old Ez

"What do you care if young people identify as white or European?"

For the same reason they can't identify as ze, zer, xe, or xer. They are categorically wrong. Vox is attempting to get people to talk in a way that matches what we see in the world. Our inability to see the world as it is without our unnecessary abstractions is our own fault.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2017 1:43 PM  

drop your idiotic belief that mestizos will ethnically cleanse the U.S.

Ask the blacks who used to live in places like Compton how good mestizos are at ethnic cleansing.

Anonymous Mark June 29, 2017 1:44 PM  

What do you care if young people identify as white or European?

Bingo.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 1:45 PM  

I love how practical observations are consistently treated as attacks by the same specific group of people...

Blogger roughcoat June 29, 2017 1:48 PM  

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:This is why I can't take white nationalism seriously. There is such as a white person from an ethnic standpoint, even in the US. Virginians don't have a lot in common with Floridians who don't have a lot in common with New Yorkers.

If we want the US to survive past this century, this is one of the realities we need to accept.


A rural Virginian will get on a lot better with a rural NYer than he will with a city boy Virginian. Big cities form their own cultures and only retain a patina of the culture their state started with.

I think the US breaks down along generally regional lines, but with a strong lifestyle component. Call it self-reliance vs insect behavior. I don't think it breaks much along state lines at all, except coincidentally.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 29, 2017 1:48 PM  

"I haven't seen anyone argue for the establishment of a white United States of EU."

NPI does.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 1:48 PM  

We are mocking her because the comment is the intellectual equivalent of a parrot hearing a key word in a conversation it doesn't understand, and blurting out a sentence it doesn't understand.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 1:48 PM  

@some guy can you enlighten me on what the 1790 Naturalization Law was all about? Were all those congressmen kooky SJWs? If not, then why did they very clearly intend "white" to be the default racial standard of "American"?

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 1:50 PM  

Because white IS an identity in USA, and it was an identity which was supposed to define a federation. Which is not a nation.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2017 1:51 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:The question in America is: when whites get fed up with the multi-cult globalist program, will they rally under the banner of "white American" (which I gather is the alt-White's goal), or will they, like the Europeans, split more narrowly along real national/ethnic lines? Will Scots-Irish Southrons, German Midwesterners, and Puritan Yankees all come to think of themselves and each other as "White," or will they divide into those different groups and fight to preserve their own group?
I think, on a rhetorical level at least, it will resolve out to "Real Americans" "Fake Americans" "Foreigners" and Blacks.
In other words, the category will not explicitly be "White Americans." Instead, we'll fall back on our WWII-era nationalist programming, with explicit "you go back" categories for people who don't belong.

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2017 1:53 PM  

@47. roughcoat

You have to admit that a rural Virginian is going to have more in common with a rural North Carolinan than a rural Montanan, though.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 1:53 PM  

The default for "American" is white. Everyone knows it, regardless of the individual's willingness to admit it. That's why you have "black Americans" and "American Indians".

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 29, 2017 1:55 PM  

@30 There has to be a "European American" or similar term for white Americans to use to refer to white foreigners with US passports (e.g. people of Eastern and Southern European ancestry, all recent European immigrants). If you say all these people are the same ethnic group (or alternatively try to make natives label themselves like foreigners, "English-American", etc), you have effectively eradicated the native white identity and placed us on the same level as foreigners (although fair to argue that this identity died in the mid 20th century). Of course, these foreigners can call themselves Italian, Jewish, etc. but European-American, ethnic, foreigner, or other suitable term is needed for natives to differentiate themselves from this particular group of "others". 

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 1:55 PM  

I would suggest that people who are angry about white people organizing for their own interests just get over it. You don't have to take your own side if you don't want to but stop crying about it when others do. If you want to be a faceless, identityless, cosmopolitan individual without an ingroup, that's fine. I mean, you will regret it, but we don't begrudge you that. Just please stop getting so upset at the white people who are taking their own side. You just look like a bunch of petulant whiners sniping from the safety of the sidelines.

Blogger roughcoat June 29, 2017 1:55 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:@47. roughcoat

You have to admit that a rural Virginian is going to have more in common with a rural North Carolinan than a rural Montanan, though.


Yes, I think there would be cross-state-lines "nations" exactly like that. Mine would be Southern Tier NY and north-central/west PA, maybe some of eastern OH. It certainly would not include NYC just because that's technically part of NY.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. June 29, 2017 1:56 PM  

Great googlie mooglie, it's Sperg-O-Rama Thursday or some shit.

Are drinks half off?

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2017 1:57 PM  

I loved the BIG thumbs up at the end of the tweet!!!

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 29, 2017 1:57 PM  

Old Ez wrote:I would suggest that people who are angry about white people organizing for their own interests just get over it. You don't have to take your own side if you don't want to but stop crying about it when others do. If you want to be a faceless, identityless, cosmopolitan individual without an ingroup, that's fine. I mean, you will regret it, but we don't begrudge you that. Just please stop getting so upset at the white people who are taking their own side. You just look like a bunch of petulant whiners sniping from the safety of the sidelines.

That was actually really good.

Blogger Elder Son June 29, 2017 1:59 PM  

What whites need to accept in America, is that no matter what flavor of white you are, they want you dead. Gone.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 1:59 PM  

I would suggest that people who are angry about white people organizing for their own interests just get over it.

We're not. We're saying, don't talk about Europe unless you really understand the identity of Europeans, because if you do, it will sound maddeningly stupid to someone who does. It will sound like the very EU project we hate so much. We WILL support other European countries' nationalists, but only because it will help us in our own nationalist agenda. The more we chip away at EU, the easier it is to push it into collapse. The end game is always for the nations to become independent, and not try this damn project ever again.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 2:00 PM  

@Old Ez - You're the only one here who's mad.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2017 2:03 PM  

@Vox

Actual question for you.

In college I had a professor that said that Italians don't really think of themselves as Italians.

That they think of themselves as Florentines, Milanos, Romans, Genoans (etc). Regional identity, rather than a national one.

And that it was only when they came to America that they got lumped together as Italians and a new identity was created, the Italian-American.

I didn't think to question his word on that at the time but now I am.

You are the one that lives there, Vox. Which way do Italians think of themselves?

Blogger Mastermind June 29, 2017 2:03 PM  

34 You clearly have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about.

Us Europeans get that a lot from you Americans.

Basta bugie,
No UE!

The EU lied, blatantly and repeatedly, to Europeans, and bought them off with massive loans and grants.


Your theory is that Europeans sold off their national identity for a few shekels? And that the most well informed and educated population on the planet was taken in by the lies of an organization they continue to support? Sounds like an implicit admission that white nationalists can easily create a white identity, given that:

a) Europeans are retarded and easily misled.
b) Europeans will sell their national identity for 20 pieces of silver.

Richard Spencer just needs to start doing some fundraisers.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:05 PM  

In college I had a professor that said that Italians don't really think of themselves as Italians.

This is absolutely true. Hold on, I'll get our Venetian Giuseppe here to talk about Italy. This will be entertaining.

Blogger Kentucky Headhunter June 29, 2017 2:06 PM  

A rural Virginian will get on a lot better with a rural NYer than he will with a city boy Virginian. Big cities form their own cultures and only retain a patina of the culture their state started with.

I agree with this and also with the geographical corollary stated by SiB.

If the terrorists took out the 10 biggest cities in the US and their immediate surrounds, the country would be >95% deep red and the democrat party gone forever.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:07 PM  

Whites around the world generally do have shared values, culture, history - moreso than between whites/arabs, whites/asians, whites/latinos or (dareisay) whites/jews. GENERALLY SPEAKING. (pointing out the rare counterexception cough albania is a cultural-marxist tactic!) And GENERALLY we share the same physiological/social affliction that has led to demographic displacement in MOST of our countries. (GENERALLY imo we would agree that this is a core problem)

They don't even share one, or TEN languages. And you're full of shit. Albania is only one of several obvious counterexamples. You simply try to wave them away and pretend they don't count, but we here in Europe know white Albanians and Bosniaks and Bosnians.

I haven't seen anyone argue for the establishment of a white United States of EU. Red Herring.

Oh, FFS, what the hell do you think the EU is? What do you think Identity Europa means? Have you never heard of either Richard Spencer or Greg Johnson? They both argue, specifically, for A white ethnostate.

That is absolutely anathema to all the nationalists across Europe. We will utterly reject the American white nationalism rather than accept that. That is a non-negotiable. Either deal with it or be lumped in with the globalists and every other enemy of the European nations.

I think you folks need to ask yourself why you're working so zealously to deny these peoples' identities.

We are not doing so. You are. Their identity is not "European". It is Italian. It is Swedish. It is Catalonian. It is French-Swiss. Tell a French-Swiss that he's French. It will NOT go over well.

You don't seem to grasp that your blithe "well, you guys over there are all just whites like us Americans" is insulting, offensive, and blitheringly stupid to most Europeans. I haven't been a straniero for 20 years because everyone over here is all just the same.

Your stubborn ignorance is almost mind-blowing. I'm telling you this. The Finn is telling you this. Other Europeans are telling you this. And you guys just keep repeating the same idiotic "the wurld is all jess like us Waaht Murkans" that George W. Bush used to assert.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:11 PM  

Your theory is that Europeans sold off their national identity for a few shekels?

No. Look, just shut the fuck up. You moronic Murkans might as reasonably try to sell the Japanese on your One White World nonsense. It is becoming increasingly evident that you're not nationalists at all; you certainly have zero respect for the European nations.

Blogger WhatsThePitch June 29, 2017 2:11 PM  

It must be hard being highly intelligent, constantly surrounded by fools. Is it any wonder why God seems so separated from humanity?

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:16 PM  

"No. Look, just shut the fuck up. You moronic Murkans might as reasonably try to sell the Japanese on your One White World nonsense. It is becoming increasingly evident that you're not nationalists at all; you certainly have zero respect for the European nations."

See, this is why every European country with the possible exception of England, loathes Americans. We get this all the time, every single time.

NB: "loathe" is not "hate".

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2017 2:17 PM  

Send help, Vox is falling into the famed Italian belligerence!

It must be the magic dirt!

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:19 PM  

You are the one that lives there, Vox. Which way do Italians think of themselves?

Italian is the linguistic identity. So, I'm regarded as functionally Italian even though I am not. But I'm not of any proper Italian town/region. The main identity is based on the city, if it is major, or the region. So, I know people who are Romans, Napolitani, and Veneziani, but also Calabresi and Toscani. For example, no one who lives in Milano would say they are Lombards, they are absolutely Milanese.

To show how this works, we went several times to an Italian gelateria in France. The kids discovered that if they ordered in Italian, they got nearly twice as much as when they ordered in French.

Blogger Salt June 29, 2017 2:19 PM  

Markku wrote:This is absolutely true. Hold on, I'll get our Venetian Giuseppe here to talk about Italy. This will be entertaining.

I'm Pennsylvanian, though I'd say a Pittsburgher as not to have anyone possibly think I'm from Philadelphia.

Blogger Mastermind June 29, 2017 2:20 PM  

72

But I was born in Europe. Vox is an immigrant born in America. I've never even set foot in the States.

His crazy rant only makes sense if he aimed it at himself.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 2:21 PM  

@Markku -

Oh go eat a croissant, ya damn tea-swilling gyro-maker.

Heh.

OpenID paworldandtimes June 29, 2017 2:21 PM  

Whites across various nations will regard other (non-muslim) Whites as human, be it on friendly terms or as an enemy -- and that is the extent of shared identity among various European nations.

It's no small thing though. In extreme circumstances, they will gravitate to one another on the basis of a their recognized shared humanity, as we read about European tourists from various countries plus Americans, at the Superdome after Katrina.

In contrast, non-Whites are instinctively seen as something removed from what Whites feel in their gut as "human." As such, they can be objects of pity, idealization, or contempt.

PA

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:22 PM  

Whites across various nations will regard other (non-muslim) Whites as human

This is exactly right.

Blogger Happy LP9 June 29, 2017 2:22 PM  

That had to have been a joke tweet.

10 great but the moment an American arrives in any EU nation, its obvious that is an American never Irish, Greek or Italian. Right? Confusing.

OT: http://nightwind777.blogspot.com/2017/06/vox-days-alpha-minions-humiliated-by-12.html

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:23 PM  

His crazy rant only makes sense if he aimed it at himself.

No, it also makes sense if you are a dishonest European national pretending not to know something that you know perfectly well. Which, apparently, is the case.

Born in Europe. On what continent do you actually live?

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:23 PM  

Whites, on a gut level, feel like they have moral agency. That's why we also hate them more intensely, when they betray.

Blogger Desdichado June 29, 2017 2:24 PM  

Italy (and Germany too, for that matter) have existed as nation-states for less time than America has. On the other hand, long before the consolidation of Germany, there was an awareness of a German identity as a nation. The same is not necessarily true for Italy. The Northern Italians; north of the Hajnal Line, from the old Piedmont-Sardinia always looked in askance at the Two Sicilies. The diaspora of Italians to America and elsewhere are largely the Sicilians and Cantabrians, etc.—the real losers in the unification of the Kingdom of Italy, to be honest.

Anonymous George June 29, 2017 2:25 PM  

I think the bigger issue is that the Globalists are attacking, and want to replace all people of European descent, and a common identify is being formed based off of that alone.

Italy, U.S, Canada, Germany etc doesn't matter. That's where this 'identify' comes from.

Blogger rumpole5 June 29, 2017 2:27 PM  

As to the USA/nations, check out the Jayman blog or his contributions to Unz.com .

The USA is actually a much older "nation" (and only a semi nation at that) AND an older political entity than Germany or Italy. Those 2 countries barely even speak the same language in different regions, and only came together as political entities well into the 1800s. The USA only barely held together as a nation in a terrible civil war, but at least we all speak intelligible English.

The idea that Europe is a nation after a few years of semi political union is ridiculous! Haven't you all ever heard of Czechoslovakia, of Yugoslavia, or Catalonia? Europe is constantly fracturing.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:28 PM  

I still call them Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia unless I manage to catch myself.

Blogger Mastermind June 29, 2017 2:31 PM  

"80 No, it also makes sense if you are a dishonest European national pretending not to know something that you know perfectly well. Which, apparently, is the case."

No, it makes absolutely no sense to have an American accuse an European of being an American. You're a pure walking parody of an American, literally like that joke about Americans calling people foreigners in their own country.

And I am not being dishonest or pretending anything. My grandmother, who never touched the Internet, had no idea who Richard Spencer is, had zero contact with any americans, white nationalist or otherwise, had an european identity and explicitly praised the achievements of "European ethnicity".

Despite claiming to be a nuanced thinker, you seem to be stuck in a binary mindset when you simply cannot comprehend the idea that someone can have two or more overlapping identities.

"Born in Europe. On what continent do you actually live?"

I'm in Canada right now, not that it matters.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 2:32 PM  

The food talk actually bright something to my mind. You can go basically anywhere in the USA and get a burger, fries, and a soda. There might be regional variations (chicken instead of beef, or what you call the soda), but virtually everyone in the country will recognize that as a quintessentially American meal. Does the same hold true for European countries?

Blogger Todd Brown June 29, 2017 2:33 PM  

I don't remember this being a problem for "African"-Americans. Please Vox, tell me why I'm such an utter retard for making this comparison.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:34 PM  

About burger and soda being available anywhere and associated as American? Yes.

About there being some other, quintessentially European dish that works that way? No.

Blogger Lucas June 29, 2017 2:34 PM  

I live in Portugal and I can confirm VD's main thesis: for example, the Lusitanos dont like to be associated with the Spanish and I guess the feeling is the same over there.

"White Nationalism" erases all the distinct nationalities Whites have created.

Fun fact: "White Nationalism" is another form of globalism. But with a moustache.

Blogger Desdichado June 29, 2017 2:36 PM  

@83: Allies in the foxhole is not the same as common enemy. The biggest identity that anyone can really grasp hold of is probably civilizational. That excludes from my biggest, broadest identity, the Russian/Orthodox civilization, white Bosniaks or Chechyans, southern Italians and Spaniards, etc. I can't envision even the broadest identity as anything broader than Western civilization, which is defined by Hajnal Line culture.

And that broad identity is much less important to me than deeper, smaller identities, which is the whole point.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I can't see woke Russians as useful allies and friends, of course. Just that I'll never identify them as anything other than (at best) friendly foreigners.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2017 2:37 PM  

@66. Markku

It came up in class because of the British dish Speg-Bol (spaghetti bolognese). Which my professor insisted should rightfully be called Speg-Americano.

In Bologna, putting Ragu alla Bolognese on spaghetti is a horrifying concept.

According to him, the Italians that came to America at the turn of the century, had back-engineered recipes that they had only heard about but hadn't ever made. Either because they were too poor to afford the ingredients or they were from another region of Italy and you just didn't make another region's food.

British Speg-Bol was good old American Spaghetti and Meat Sauce. The dish had wandered off American bases during the Cold War. British cooks renamed for purposes of snob appeal.

Anonymous Mark June 29, 2017 2:38 PM  

What do you think Identity Europa means?

IE is an American group of young people with European heritage who advocate for American white interests. IE has watched and learned from many European right-wing groups, but I've never heard them advocate for a Europe-wide white superstate. What is the problem here?

Have you never heard of either Richard Spencer or Greg Johnson? They both argue, specifically, for A white ethnostate.

I've heard these guys advocate the white ethnostate - a goal I share. But the calls I've heard have been aspirational - not something to be practically achieved in the near term. I've never heard anyone call to replace German identity or French identity, only to preserve them.

IMO you should point out specific instances of 'wrongthink', rather than generalize, condemn broad groups and foster division.

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 2:38 PM  

"About there being some other, quintessentially European dish that works that way? No."

I meant for individual countries. Is there a "definitively Finnish" or "definitively Russian" or "definitely Italian" meal? Or is it more localized?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 29, 2017 2:39 PM  

@75. You were born in a specific country.

Anonymous Jeff June 29, 2017 2:39 PM  

I'm gonna give this Italian lady +1 for supporting Trump.

Blogger The Kurgan June 29, 2017 2:40 PM  

Vox is perfectly correct.
I am not Italian.
I am a citizen of the Serinissima Repubblica di Venezia, currently under interdiction by the globalist led "Italian" "government".

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:40 PM  

Correct, off the top of my head I can't think of any restaurant that sells a dish with spaghetti, but immediately at least five nearby that sell fresh pasta. With bolognese, or many other possible sauces on top.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:41 PM  

I don't remember this being a problem for "African"-Americans. Please Vox, tell me why I'm such an utter retard for making this comparison.

Because African-Americans do not know, and therefore cannot identify with, either their tribal or modern state identities.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 29, 2017 2:42 PM  

" 67. Blogger Kentucky Headhunter June 29, 2017 2:06 PM
A rural Virginian will get on a lot better with a rural NYer than he will with a city boy Virginian. Big cities form their own cultures and only retain a patina of the culture their state started with.

I agree with this and also with the geographical corollary stated by SiB.

If the terrorists took out the 10 biggest cities in the US and their immediate surrounds, the country would be >95% deep red and the democrat party gone forever."



Your corollary is a strong incentive for a future adversary to not nuke those population centers in a future war. At least not use nukes at the beginning to open hostilities but only at the end to kill the traitors that made conquest possible.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:43 PM  

Or is it more localized?

Combination of both. A certain type of independent grill that sells cheap fast food (much cheaper and simpler than the chain restaurants) would be the Finnish thing that is found everywhere, and then there's the regional dish in many cities. Mine doesn't have one, but my previous city did.

You wouldn't like it...

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. June 29, 2017 2:43 PM  

The inability to process what a proper Nation and therefore what nationalism is, is a testament to the now complete dis-integration of what the United States was intended to be. Americans, even very smart ones, generally cannot process definitive, 'dyed-in-the-wool' nationalism, let alone the nuanced sorts of (non-pejorative) provincialism extant in Europe. That so-called 'white' nationalism is a possible solution in America exemplifies the diasporic state of America and just how lost 'American' identity really is.

I always find it odd when Americans -- paper, posterity or otherwise -- want to tell me about how far gone Europe is. The root was pulled here in America right when it was easiest to do so. It's been confusion ever since.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:43 PM  

I've heard these guys advocate the white ethnostate - a goal I share. But the calls I've heard have been aspirational - not something to be practically achieved in the near term.

No European nationalist supports an ideal of a white Europe-wide state. That is the dream of Napoleon, Hitler, and the EU. As far as I'm concerned, you might as well be a dirty communist. I don't care how far away we are from the worker's paradise, it is not something to aspire to.

Do you not get it? True nationalists do not share your aspirations.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:44 PM  

That so-called 'white' nationalism is a possible solution in America exemplifies the diasporic state of America and just how lost 'American' identity really is.

Precisely.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 2:46 PM  

IMO you should point out specific instances of 'wrongthink', rather than generalize, condemn broad groups and foster division.

Very well. You are a specific example of wrongthink. As are Greg Johnson and Richard Spencer, because you all aspire to eliminate the European nations in favor of a Continental System/Third Reich/European Union/white ethnostate.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 2:47 PM  

Here's something you can get in literally every city and small town in Finland, and have it look the same:

http://www.turkulainen.fi/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/2801makkpekkhalistupa1.jpg?itok=qABHRlKf

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 29, 2017 2:47 PM  

"I don't remember this being a problem for "African"-Americans. Please Vox, tell me why I'm such an utter retard for making this comparison."

And yet, the Africans in Africa STILL don't have any sort of functional Pan-African Identity.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar June 29, 2017 2:47 PM  

@87
Where I grew up it is called "pop".
Or "sodapop" if you are speaking to a youngster.
Appalachian-American.

Anonymous Roundtine June 29, 2017 2:47 PM  

The Quebecois consider themselves more French than the French, including the language.

Anonymous Roundtine June 29, 2017 2:49 PM  

Here's something you can get in literally every city and small town in Finland

Looks better than poutine.

Blogger Elder Son June 29, 2017 2:50 PM  

White America: Your Future Is Now

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/06/trump-supporters-arrested-cudahy-illegal-aliens-verbally-accost-physically-attack-video/

And note the composition of the LASD. Multiculturalism/Babelism is White Genocide.

Here you are White America.

Imagine where you will be.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 2:51 PM  

I notice the Vox and The Chorus keep pointing out that Europe is not America; stop preaching WN to Europeans, etc. And that's fine. I agree with that. American WN is a non-starter in Europe, and we have always maintained that as well.

But you are all being dishonest because you are attacking the idea of WN not just in Europe, *but in America too*. If you limited yourselves to the honest critique of WN in Europe there would be no issue. But not only do you want to deny white identity to Europeans (which is fair), you want to deny it to white people in America too. You guys aren't being honest. If you want to make a distinction, fine. But you have to apply it *consistently* in order to not look dishonest.

Anonymous Roundtine June 29, 2017 2:52 PM  

Most people who are white nationalist are talking specifically in an American context, at least from my experience. Though Spencer is certainly a high profile exception.

What's interesting is I haven't heard (and maybe I missed it) the people calling for a white ethnostate across Europe, calling for a white ethnostate in North America. If you're going to start some pan-white movement, obviously the first step is USA absorbs Canada. But try convincing Quebecois!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 29, 2017 2:56 PM  

"But try convincing Quebecois!"

Free cheese to everyone who surrenders!

Anonymous Bill June 29, 2017 2:56 PM  

I don't believe many of those in the U.S. want all the European nations to become one 'European State'. That would never work and would be a disaster for true 'diversity' of the differing European cultures and nations.

Most are simply saying: Keep the European nations, but bring back a White (European) majority in the U.S.

Many simply want a return to the U.S. demographics in the 1950's with a ~90% White demographic.



Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar June 29, 2017 2:57 PM  

@106
That looks almost like fritjes oorlog.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2017 2:59 PM  

But not only do you want to deny white identity to Europeans (which is fair), you want to deny it to white people in America too.

I don't want to deny it to anyone; if you can sell it to them, be my guest. I just don't think it'll be effective, so I'm not particular interested in it. When white Americans become ethnically woke, I don't think they'll stop at "white."

The one reason I'm wary of trying to enforce an ersatz "white American" nationality is that, as I and others have pointed out, that really only holds together well when we have a world war now and then to make us gloss over our differences and rally together as Americans. I don't particularly want to keep stirring up global wars for that purpose, so if that's the only way to keep white Americans united, I'd rather pass and think about peaceful partition.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 2:59 PM  

Old Ez wrote:I notice the Vox and The Chorus keep pointing out that Europe is not America; stop preaching WN to Europeans, etc. And that's fine. I agree with that. American WN is a non-starter in Europe, and we have always maintained that as well.

But you are all being dishonest because you are attacking the idea of WN not just in Europe, *but in America too*. If you limited yourselves to the honest critique of WN in Europe there would be no issue. But not only do you want to deny white identity to Europeans (which is fair), you want to deny it to white people in America too. You guys aren't being honest. If you want to make a distinction, fine. But you have to apply it *consistently* in order to not look dishonest.


Yankees ≠ Southeners ≠ Midwesterners

Those are least three of the white American nations. Two of them literally fought a war against each other.

How is WN for Americans any different from Yankee Supremacy? A white alliance is all very well and good, but at the end of the day the Yankee Empire needs to be disolved so that the white nations of American can all live in peace. Don't you realize that essentially all of America's problems can be traced back to the international competition between Yankees and Southeners?

Anonymous Mark June 29, 2017 2:59 PM  

you aspire to eliminate the European nations in favor of a Continental System/Third Reich/European Union/white ethnostate

Thank you for focusing on a specific case. I am opposed to creating a single white ethnostate across all of Europe. Not practical or desirable. I am in favor of preserving ethnic cohesion in all european nations. Your characterization of my views is wrong and needlessly divisive.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 29, 2017 2:59 PM  

@Markku, in western Europe a "cutlet" is pretty standard whether French, Viennese, Suisse or Italiano. It won't look the same from place to place, but then again it might not look the same in two different restaurants in the same town.

I've met Florentines in North America. Some were residents of the US or Canada. They were still Florentines.

Blogger Orthodox June 29, 2017 3:00 PM  

But not only do you want to deny white identity to Europeans (which is fair), you want to deny it to white people in America too.

I don't deny it, but it is ahistorical. There has never been a white identity even in America. it has only been used in opposition to non-white Americans. Americans have at times purged/killed their own ethnic group for being on the wrong side of an issue (Revolution, Civil War). People pushing for a white identity and white ethnostate are pushing for something that only existed as a default setting. I don't know the answer to this question: What's The Schelling Point for Identity?, but I don't think it is white nationalism, even in America. That's not to say we won't end up with something that is racially indistinguishable from white nationalism, but if we formed a nation made up solely of property-rights/freedom of association libertarians or NASCAR fans it would also be indistinguishable from white nationalism.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 29, 2017 3:02 PM  

But you are all being dishonest because you are attacking the idea of WN not just in Europe, *but in America too*.

It's fine in America. The blacks and hispanics are already defining it for you. You'll know who you are when they come for you, if you can't figure it out beforehand. I hope you do.

Anonymous Stickwick June 29, 2017 3:02 PM  

Markku: See, this is why every European country with the possible exception of England, loathes Americans. We get this all the time, every single time.

There but for the grace of marrying a European go I.

This is intrinsically difficult for Americans to understand, but it helped when my Finnish husband described the various European nations as "tribes." Americans understand tribes. Few us who know anything about American or Canadian history would say there's such a thing as an "Indian nation." Just typing it out, it looks ludicrous. We know there's a difference between the Navajo nation, the Cherokee nation, and the Algonquin nation.

Well, it's no different in Europe, not only with the various geopolitical countries, but with the nations that exist within those countries. In Finland, Karelians are distinct from Savonians, who are distinct from Tavastians, who are distinct from the horrible Fennoswedes.

I could grasp that in an abstract way, but was astonished when my husband easily distinguished between people from those tribes just on the basis of facial features, to say nothing of their dialects and behavioral characteristics.

Those distinctions matter to Europeans, even if they don't matter to you. Consider this. Even though my husband's family moved to Finland from Sweden over 500 years ago, he's easily identifiable as an abominable Fennoswede, and nobody will ever let him forget it. He and his posterity will never truly be Finns as far as the other tribes are concerned.

If 500 years isn't enough for a person to be considered part of a country, how on earth could 25 years possibly unite all of the disparate European people? Europeans will never be a European nation.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. June 29, 2017 3:02 PM  

When white Americans become ethnically woke, I don't think they'll stop at "white."

It is where they will -- and do -- begin, however. Which appears to be the salient point of white nationalism.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 29, 2017 3:03 PM  

@112 Old EZ
But not only do you want to deny white identity to Europeans (which is fair), you want to deny it to white people in America too.

Who exactly is doing that? Point to a specific comment.
Then get some poutine and Siracha for me.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:03 PM  

The idea that anyone in the Alt Right is in favor of mixing all European nations together under one political entity is another canard. People promoting the idea that such people exist in any appreciable numbers are being dishonest or just repeating things they've heard.

I'm genuinely curious as to how European-race-deniers respond to an argument like this: as recently as 1870 there was no such thing as a nation of "Germany" or an national "German". There were Swabians, Thuringians, Prussians, Schleswig-Holsteinians, Westphalian Rhinelanders, etc. So at one time Germany was not considered a "nation" and many people said it could never be one. They were wrong. Why were they wrong about Germany becoming a nation but you're right about Europeans never being able to become a race?

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 29, 2017 3:04 PM  

The Kurgan wrote:Vox is perfectly correct.

I am not Italian.

I am a citizen of the Serinissima Repubblica di Venezia, currently under interdiction by the globalist led "Italian" "government".



So you're what the southern Italians call a Fritz - not even a real Italian.

Then again, Sicilians.

The Austrians of the northern Tyrol valley would laugh at the idea that any Italians of the southern Tyrol could be German, the Bavarians don't even consider themselves to be Germans but something else altogether (sort of like the Texas of Germany), and the northern Germans think the Badisch are lazy feckless Mittelmeeren.

Basically, people don't like each other much at all. Getting them to live in relative peace - like the Japanese VD keeps mentioning - takes centuries of ruthless culling.

Since other nations have refused to do this to themselves, we're going to have to take up the White Man's Burden once more, and do it to them, for them.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:06 PM  

"every European country....loathes Americans"

If I were European, I would loath the US too. The Americans fought World War 2 to make Europe safe for Communism and to turn the continent over to a gang of murderous, anti-European racial aliens. I would despise all Americans if I were a European too, but not for trying to awaken my European racial spirit. I would despise them for helping to destroy Europe in the 1940s.

OpenID paworldandtimes June 29, 2017 3:08 PM  

White Nationalism will be most effective when understood as an emergency alliance of independent Western (White) nations, as reflected by the "Stop White Genocide" and "No More Brother Wars" memes. That's how I've seen it since I started identifying myself as a WN.

PA

Anonymous Mark June 29, 2017 3:08 PM  

What's interesting is I haven't heard (and maybe I missed it) the people calling for a white ethnostate across Europe, calling for a white ethnostate in North America.

You didn't miss it. This is a non-issue is invented out of thin air by Vox, and he hasn't produced a single specific example of AltRight leaders, or even anonymous shitposters who call for a global white ethnostate. Red Herring.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 29, 2017 3:08 PM  

@126 Old EZ
The idea that anyone in the Alt Right is in favor of mixing all European nations together under one political entity is another canard.

Only the alt-White is that stupid.

Anonymous CitizenOutkast June 29, 2017 3:09 PM  

WhatsThePitch wrote:It must be hard being highly intelligent, constantly surrounded by fools. Is it any wonder why God seems so separated from humanity?

It actually says a lot for His mercy, too.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:11 PM  

@125 said "Who exactly is [attacking American white nationalism]? Point to a specific comment." Wow Deplorable if I have misread things I'm happy to be corrected. Are you saying Vox and the VD boomer nation commentariat *do not* oppose White Nationalism in the US? If so, that's great news! Why are we even fighting in that case?

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2017 3:12 PM  

"Why were they wrong about Germany becoming a nation but you're right about Europeans never being able to become a race?"

Because the noble houses and tribes that eventually became Germany *were* a nation, on the whole. "Europe" can't even be reliably separated from Asia Minor, the Middle East, and North Africa in terms of genetics and history.

Blogger Shamgar June 29, 2017 3:13 PM  

tranquillo. il treno e' bene.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 3:16 PM  

The traitors and the invaders see us all as equally white, and therefore all white Americans have a common interest in defeating/deporting them.

But that is where our common interests end. What's good for Yankees is not what's good for Southeners. We all need separate countries.

If the American "white nationalists" accept this, then what you're really talking about is a white alliance. Which, ironically enough, is to my reading what the United States was basically intended to be. Before the Yankee Supremacists mucked everything up and tried to justify their empire by ridiculously claiming that all white immigrants were just as American as the WASP colonists.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar June 29, 2017 3:20 PM  

"We all need separate countries."
States. We need the states to have their sovereignty restored for the Republic to operate as intended

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 29, 2017 3:22 PM  

@133 Old Ez
@125 said "Who exactly is [attacking American white nationalism]? Point to a specific comment." Wow Deplorable if I have misread things I'm happy to be corrected

Since you can't even remember what you wrote for a few minutes, correcting you is futile.


@112 Old EZ
But not only do you want to deny white identity to Europeans (which is fair), you want to deny it to white people in America too.


Get your story together.

@132
Are you saying Vox and the VD boomer nation commentariat *do not* oppose White Nationalism in the US?

VD boomer nation commentariat teh lulz.

You may be old, but that's not as important as how tall you are. Perhaps you are not tall enough?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 29, 2017 3:23 PM  

To note: Greg Johnson couldn't form a white ethnostate if he tried. He's too busy hooking up with confused teenage boys on Grindr. He fails in a most fundamental level to be preserve our civilization because he refuses to make more white people.

As for Richard Spencer, that guy would disappear if there weren't 100 people paying attention to him.

No, White Nationalism would need non-socially autistic white men going out and having five children on average with their wives, not these posers who are basically hyper-Calvinists without God.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:24 PM  

"ridiculously claiming that all white immigrants were just as American as the WASP colonists."

You mean those Yankees who drafted the Naturalization Act of 1790 which explicitly refers to America as a country for "WHITE persons"?

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:25 PM  

You're not a serious person Deplorable.

Blogger roughcoat June 29, 2017 3:26 PM  

Old Ez wrote:The idea that anyone in the Alt Right is in favor of mixing all European nations together under one political entity is another canard. People promoting the idea that such people exist in any appreciable numbers are being dishonest or just repeating things they've heard.

I'm genuinely curious as to how European-race-deniers respond to an argument like this: as recently as 1870 there was no such thing as a nation of "Germany" or an national "German". There were Swabians, Thuringians, Prussians, Schleswig-Holsteinians, Westphalian Rhinelanders, etc. So at one time Germany was not considered a "nation" and many people said it could never be one. They were wrong. Why were they wrong about Germany becoming a nation but you're right about Europeans never being able to become a race?


You don't understand the difference between a nation and a state. Figure that out, and you'll understand what we're saying.

Blogger S. Misanthrope June 29, 2017 3:27 PM  

I have to say, I really don't get this "European American" thing. I don't remember seeing it growing up at all. I'd see people (and still see people) identify with a particular European nation, like Poland or France, but the only people who had some pan-European conceptualization of themselves were leftwing douchebags who hated American culture. Even for those of us who are mutts, we still distinctly separate out "I'm Irish-Italian" or "I'm German-Hungarian" etc. But then, was there a black identity before it was forced on blacks? Maybe this is where a white European identity could originate from.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:30 PM  

Can someone please explain to me what the men who wrote the Naturalization Act of 1790 were talking about? If there's no such thing as white nations or white people, then why did some of our earliest statesmen specifically intend for America to be a "white" nation? What am I missing?

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2017 3:33 PM  

@129. paworldandtimes
White Nationalism will be most effective when understood as an emergency alliance of independent Western (White) nations, as reflected by the "Stop White Genocide" and "No More Brother Wars" memes.

In your opinion, why is it so often misunderstood?

Personally I think the term White Nationalism is rhetorically at a disadvantage, as it's been defined decades ago successfully by enemies. So in order to spread your angle, you have to add an additional step of re-redefining White Nationalism, and that adds a burden to rhetoric when you have to start with definitions.

Blogger Orthodox June 29, 2017 3:35 PM  

What am I missing?

For starters, Ben Franklin: "That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Compexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind."

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 3:36 PM  

Cluebat Vanexodar wrote:"We all need separate countries."

States. We need the states to have their sovereignty restored for the Republic to operate as intended


I think that ship has probably sailed. Do you really want to let Yankees have a voice in your government? I mean really? Do Southeners want that?

Blogger Elder Son June 29, 2017 3:36 PM  

They want want Whites of the the various White European flavors dead too.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2017 3:40 PM  

Apparently I don't exist and never did. Any description of my present existence is purely fictional. We're 6 months away from MSM equating identifying as white with white supremacy.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 29, 2017 3:40 PM  

@144 Old Ez
What am I missing?

A clue.

Blogger Desdichado June 29, 2017 3:41 PM  

Old Ez wrote:Can someone please explain to me what the men who wrote the Naturalization Act of 1790 were talking about? If there's no such thing as white nations or white people, then why did some of our earliest statesmen specifically intend for America to be a "white" nation? What am I missing?
Nobody wants to take the time to give you remedial tutorials. Go read about how those same people didn't count the Irish or the Italians or in Ben Franklin's case, even most of the Germans as white, and maybe you'll get it.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 3:41 PM  

Old Ez wrote:"ridiculously claiming that all white immigrants were just as American as the WASP colonists."

You mean those Yankees who drafted the Naturalization Act of 1790 which explicitly refers to America as a country for "WHITE persons"?


What you are missing is that by the time the Constitution was ratified, Yankees and Southeners were ALREADY distinct nations with distinct interests. You are missing the fact that the various Americans saw themselves as citizens of their respective STATES, and that even by State the people were distinct.

Nobody thought the people of Massachusetts were interchangeable with the people of South Carolina.

The fact that the naturalization was limited to whites does not magically mean the Americans thought all the people of the various states were equivalent and indistinguishable.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:41 PM  

@146 so Franklin says they excluded "all blacks and tawneys" and says nothing about excluding the "swarthy" people of France, Italy, etc. The implication being that for purposes of national composition the "swarthies" were in the same class as whites, if not considered indubitably white themselves. Did you have anything else, or just a Franklin quote "for starters"? In any case, the Franklin quote explains nothing as it is one man's opinion.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:42 PM  

@152 there are so many strawmen in that comment I'm afraid to approach for fearing of catching fire.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:44 PM  

"Nobody wants to take the time..."

I get this a lot here. I think its mostly because you haven't been instructed what line to take yet.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 29, 2017 3:44 PM  

"White American" isn't an identity; it should be thought of more as a developing alliance of British Isles and European ethnic groups and blends thereof against a common enemy.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:46 PM  

Glib amen-choirboys like Deplorable up there are an embarrassment to the VD commentariat.

Blogger Desdichado June 29, 2017 3:47 PM  

Old Ez wrote:"Nobody wants to take the time..."

I get this a lot here. I think its mostly because you haven't been instructed what line to take yet.

Think what you want. It's beneath my notice what you think. You're either too stupid or too dishonest to attempt to have a good conversation with anyway.

Anonymous Nicolai Zolnir June 29, 2017 3:49 PM  

Here's the thing: Pan-European White Nationalism is, at the end of the day, still multiculturalism - just with nicer aesthetics. If Richard Spencer wants me to salute a ring of yellow stars on a blue field, singing "Ode to Joy" while praising The White Ethno-state of Evropa, he is just as much my enemy as George Soros.

Blogger John June 29, 2017 3:49 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 3:49 PM  

The idea that anyone in the Alt Right is in favor of mixing all European nations together under one political entity is another canard. People promoting the idea that such people exist in any appreciable numbers are being dishonest or just repeating things they've heard.

You're lying. Mark even said, in the other thread, that doing so is an aspirational goal for himself, as well as Richard Spencer and Greg Johnson.

And in doing so, they follow in the footsteps of Napoleon, Hitler, and the EU.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 3:50 PM  

Pan-European White Nationalism is, at the end of the day, still multiculturalism - just with nicer aesthetics. If Richard Spencer wants me to salute a ring of yellow stars on a blue field, singing "Ode to Joy" while praising The White Ethno-state of Evropa, he is just as much my enemy as George Soros.

Precisely.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 3:52 PM  

Old Ez wrote:@152 there are so many strawmen in that comment I'm afraid to approach for fearing of catching fire.

White Nationalism is just a subset of Proposition Nationalism and therefore fundamentally no different from transgenderism. Yankees and Southeners are one people! Men are women and women are men! Why? Because I believe it!

Anonymous Glib Deplorable Amen Choir Boy June 29, 2017 3:56 PM  

I get this a lot here. I think its mostly because you haven't been instructed what line to take yet.

The actual problem is you don't think at all.

Anonymous Remember this old thing? June 29, 2017 3:57 PM  

I remember this old thing.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:58 PM  

@161 if you want to keep pushing these canards no one can stop you VD. But the Alt Right - which is a pro-White metapolitical movement in the *United States* - isn't taking notice anymore. You can try to to promote this "Alt-White" counter-brand as a smear if you want to dump your energy into that, but it will never gain currency anywhere beyond the realm of this blog and the gab network. If you want to alienate yourself from the Alt Right by spreading lies about it, fine too. No one can stop you. But the rest of us are going to continue working together.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 3:59 PM  

"White Nationalism is just a subset of Proposition Nationalism"

That's some Talmud-tier self-deception there boy-o.

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 29, 2017 3:59 PM  

"And in doing so, they follow in the footsteps of Napoleon, Hitler, and the EU."

With about the same chance of success.

Blogger Al Smith June 29, 2017 4:02 PM  

A flight from white is pretty logical, imo, even in America. People in Europe are being told that a black can be an Englishman and so on. The whole point is to delegitimize them in their own countries, to codify affirmative action.

I think you can call yourself a European without being for the EU or for transnationalism.

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 29, 2017 4:02 PM  

Remember this old thing? wrote:I remember this old thing.

They're talking about the nations (note the plural) of Europe the continent; not the EU, not a single pan-european state.

FFS.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 4:04 PM  

Old Ez wrote:"White Nationalism is just a subset of Proposition Nationalism"

That's some Talmud-tier self-deception there boy-o.

How many white nations participated in the American Civil War?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 29, 2017 4:08 PM  

" Floridians who don't have a lot in common with New Yorkers. "
A lot of " Floridians " ARE New Yorkers . A Florida native is as rare as a queer bull.

Anonymous Glib Deplorable Amen Choir Boy June 29, 2017 4:10 PM  

@166 Old EZ
But the Alt Right - which is a pro-White metapolitical movement in the *United States* - isn't taking notice anymore.

Are you the leader of the alt Right?

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 4:11 PM  

It is absolutely false that the Ilk want to prevent white separatism, in regions where things naturally work that way. But many in the South wish to retain their Christian black communities. I believe they also have the right to choose THAT.

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2017 4:14 PM  

A PSA to other commenters - for a good number of people, aka the average joe, you have to walk through your steps of logic all the way to the end conclusion.

If they mentally made the same deductions from the prepositions you make, they'd already be on your side.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 4:14 PM  

Nate lives in Alabama, and as he likes to say, "our blacks aren't your blacks". He couldn't care less if New York forcibly removed every single black person on its soil. But if Yankees came to him and told him that Alabama has to do the same to their Christian black communities, there'd be "words exchanged". And things that usually follow "words exchanged".

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2017 4:16 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:How many white nations participated in the American Civil War?
I can think of 5 that did, and 1 that did not.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. June 29, 2017 4:17 PM  

White nationalism fails and/or would ultimately fail for a reason much simpler than the minutiae thus far discussed.

It fails and/or would fail because it would first have to come into existence in some practical, pragmatic sense and then be around for awhile for people to find any gravitas with it. The Nation State and Ethno-Nationalism, on the other hand, not only already exist, but have an extremely deep, intricate root system in the respective histories, cultures, mores & folkways of the entire Western world.

So long as we can stop the destruction of these things we should be good to go without the need to push an inherently nebulous identity like "white".

I find White Nationalism to be... faithless, for lack of a better word. It lacks faith in white people.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:18 PM  

@166 yes, i am a leader Deplorable. I run and helped found one of the major city groups. Which Alt Right group do you run? I know you dont run Atlanta, DC, NYC, Erie, Akron, Philly, Pittsburgh or Boston because I'm in contact with those goys on a daily basis. Also does your group jave a womens auxiliary yet? Ours is setting one up right now.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 4:21 PM  

I'm in contact with those goys

Freudian slips are funny.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2017 4:22 PM  

Old Ez wrote:I run and helped found one of the major city groups.
30 followers is not a major group. Hitler had 2000 in Munich, and still failed.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:25 PM  

>Freudian slips are funny

So are tells that you don't actually consume any Alt Right content, or you would know that we call each other "goy" as a matter of course.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 4:26 PM  

So are tells that you don't actually consume any Alt Right content

Absolutely true, I don't.

Anonymous kᴴᶻ June 29, 2017 4:26 PM  

For Americans to take up 'white identity', is to do to themselves voluntarily what was done through coercion to the American blacks; to be utterly disinherited.

That you would model your identity on one that is cobbled together after dispossession and enslavement is bad enough, yet to propose it for the distinct nations of Europe as something desirable, is both absurd and obscene to us.

My family is English, not British. Do you understand how it works yet?

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:27 PM  

@181 sneer all you like Snidley, we're building something real while you snipe from your keyboard. The dogs bark but the caravan goes on.

Blogger VD June 29, 2017 4:30 PM  

if you want to keep pushing these canards no one can stop you VD. But the Alt Right - which is a pro-White metapolitical movement in the *United States* - isn't taking notice anymore. You can try to to promote this "Alt-White" counter-brand as a smear if you want to dump your energy into that, but it will never gain currency anywhere beyond the realm of this blog and the gab network.

First, they're not canards. Second, I have never taken any notice of whatever your movement is. I was interviewed twice by Greg Johnson and once by TRS, and hosted both Greg and Richard Spencer at Brainstorm.

You've made your prediction. We'll see how it goes. Regardless, I will keep doing exactly what I have been doing, with little regard for your opinion or anyone else's.

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2017 4:32 PM  

@154. Old Ez
And what parts of that were strawmen?

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:32 PM  

"I will keep doing exactly what I have been doing, with little regard for your opinion or anyone else's."

That's why I come here and will continue to.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:35 PM  

@187, you're right. Looking back they weren't strawmen, they were non-sequiturs. I misspoke.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents June 29, 2017 4:36 PM  

@175 Student in blue
A PSA to other commenters - for a good number of people, aka the average joe, you have to walk through your steps of logic all the way to the end conclusion.

How many times? 5? 100? 10,000? Some people cannot be taught, you know.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2017 4:38 PM  

Old Ez wrote:sneer all you like Snidley, we're building something real while you snipe from your keyboard.
"Something real", lol. LARPing Sheriff Clarke and Rockwell is not going to get you anywhere. Ever.

Blogger CF NEAL June 29, 2017 4:41 PM  

106. IMHO, the styro spoils the flavor. I. Am. Hungry, not Hungary.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 29, 2017 4:41 PM  


That's why I come here and will continue to.


You will continue to come here because we don't care?

First time I read the term "alt-Retard" I thought that it was overly harsh. Since then the accuracy has become obvious.

Old Ez, did Hitler do anything wrong?

Anonymous Glib Deplorable Amen Choir Boy June 29, 2017 4:44 PM  

@179 Old Ez
@166 yes, i am a leader Deplorable. I run and helped found one of the major city groups.

Oh, ok. You're a Federal informant, then. Explains a lot.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 29, 2017 4:45 PM  

Old Ez wrote:@187, you're right. Looking back they weren't strawmen, they were non-sequiturs. I misspoke.
Are you sure it's not begging the question? Or maybe an appeal to authority?

The fact that people have brought up points that you don't think are relevant does not make them fallacies.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:46 PM  

Great attitude snidley. I'm sure it's taken you far in life.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:48 PM  

Hitler did many things wrong, Dunkirk not least of all. Hitler was too magnanimous.

Blogger Markku June 29, 2017 4:48 PM  

Mark wrote:The AltRight needs strong leadership

A king perhaps. Only, he's still in secret.

Blogger Old Ez June 29, 2017 4:49 PM  

You're not a serious person Deplorable.

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