ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Saturday, June 17, 2017

Speaking of Southern Baptists

Lest you mistake from whence their denunciation of the Alt-Right comes:
Southern Baptists have long defended literal approaches to the Bible, but their recent translation of the Good Book might have them switching sides.

Last fall, the publishing arm of the 15-million member Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) released the Christian Standard Bible (CSB). LifeWay Christian Stores, America’s largest Christian retailer, which is owned by the SBC, sells the translation at hundreds of its locations nationwide and touts it as a work of superior scholarship. But patrons are largely unaware that the denomination-approved translation is gender-inclusive.

When several revisions to the popular New International Version (1984) appeared to employ gender-neutral language, for example, Southern Baptists condemned the translation by name and chastised its publishers. A 2011 resolution even instructed LifeWay to cease selling the translation in its stores. (LifeWay has continued to sell the NIV despite the resolution to remove it; the translation remains the most popular among Southern Baptists with a 40 percent share.)

The rationale behind the rebuke was two-fold. First, inclusive translations abolish many gender-specific terms. For example, they may change “father” to “parent,” “son” to “child,” and “man” to “mortal.” And second, these translations added words and phrases not found in ancient manuscripts for the sake of inclusion. A common example is the translation of “brother” as “brother or sister.”...

In response to this perceived menace, the SBC commissioned its own Bible translation, the Holman Christian Standard Bible, which was finalized in 2003. It was intended “to champion the absolute truth of the Bible against social or cultural agendas that would compromise its accuracy.” The translation was well received and the Bible battlefront quieted for more than a decade. But when a revision was released last fall, a number of the same “gender-neutral” elements that the SBC previously condemned were inserted into its own translation.

The CSB now translates the term anthropos, a Greek word for “man,” in a gender-neutral form 151 times, rendering it “human,” “people,” and “ones.” The previous edition had done this on occasion; the new revision adds almost 100 more instances. “Men of Israel” becomes “fellow Israelites;” when discussing Jesus’s incarnation the “likeness of men” becomes “likeness of humanity.” The CSB translates the term adelphoi, a Greek word for “brother” in a gender-neutral form 106 times, often adding “sister.” “Brotherly love” is translated “love as brothers and sisters.”

The gender-neutralizing pattern is also present in its translation of the Old Testament. For instance, where the NIV “gender-neutral” revision uses the term “human” or “humanly” for a masculine term, the CSB concurs with a “human” “humanly” or “human being(s)” 67 times. As the CSB translates the Hebrew term ‘dm (the word for adam), the generic “man, men,” it uses gender-neutral language of “human(s), humanity, human kind, people, person(s)” 242 times. The CSB also uses the term “mortal” or “mere mortal” to replace a masculine term 6 times. Numerous other instances of gender-neutral translations of masculine terminology exist across both testaments.
It appears that the SBC has not only been converged by SJWs, but has switched sides at their behest. This gentleman argues that they haven't, that they've only given into gender-inclusive language to the point it is approved by a group of James Dobson-led evangelicals.

And that's supposed to be comforting?

Labels: , ,

99 Comments:

Blogger SamuraiJack June 17, 2017 1:26 PM  

Vox, which translation(s) do you recommend?

Blogger Matt June 17, 2017 1:31 PM  

KJV

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim June 17, 2017 1:31 PM  

To counter for consideration...
http://www.dennyburk.com/have-southern-baptists-embraced-gender-inclusive-bible-translation-not-by-a-longshot/

Like the "Alt-Right" resolution... I think the Atlantic sees an ant and screams "RAT!" on this one.

Anonymous Stryker4570 June 17, 2017 1:34 PM  

They were weak on the Sacraments anyway.. If it is any consolation, they will probably split into several different denominations once it becomes widely apparent to their members what is going on. The SB's I used to know won't put up with that crap for long.

Blogger Gaiseric June 17, 2017 1:39 PM  

KJV is not only a wonderful translation of the Bible, but it's also an important artifact of Western civilization in its own right.

Blogger Melampus the Seer June 17, 2017 1:41 PM  

NKJV from the Textus Receptus.

Blogger Stilicho June 17, 2017 1:46 PM  

Last time I attended a Baptist Church the KJV and only the KJV was acceptable. My how things have changed.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 1:47 PM  

Stryker4570 wrote:They were weak on the Sacraments anyway
One of the theological points of Baptistism is that they don't believe in scraments at all, at least not ibnt he way that Catholics, high church Anglicans and Lutherans do.

For a very good translation, in modern language, the RSV is very difficult to beat, but by no means should anyone use the New Revised Standard Version. The Jerusalem Bible is quite good and more poetic. KJV is the standard Protestant translation, with the contemporaneous Douay-Rheims for Catholics.
New American used to be pretty good, prior to the 3rd revision, but also suffers from the gender-inclusive pox. Since it only has one publisher, the older versions are not available new.
Other than those, it's pretty bleak.

Anonymous Ain June 17, 2017 1:48 PM  

@6, that's largely what makes it the best one.

Blogger Kevin Blackwell June 17, 2017 1:49 PM  

People don't even know what the word person means.

Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward

Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

A person is not a man and a person is not a people, this should be obvious just from the grammar of these sentences. Yet I don't see anyone even mentioning this perversion.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 17, 2017 1:52 PM  

The King James Version now becomes an instrument of oppression, triggering and feelbadz...

Excellent. Let us smite the Social Justice Warriors, the Cucks, the feminists, etc.

Anonymous m June 17, 2017 1:53 PM  

NKJV from the Textus Receptus has it's own issues. I'll keep my KJV.....: http://jesus-is-lord.com/nkjvdead.htm

Anonymous Just another commenter June 17, 2017 1:53 PM  

They thought God needed an editor because he got it wrong the first time?

No, no arrogence there at all.

Anonymous Curlytop June 17, 2017 1:55 PM  

The convergence of the Southern Baptist Convention occurred 20yrs ago when their missions/evangelical wing started funding the Rick Warren Purpose-Driven Church Movement. All those megachurch campuses got their start via the SB congregates tithing to their local church who is a member of the SBC.

This latest abomination, which was completely predictable by those of us paying attention, comes after the SBC condemned HomeSchooling, supported the funding of illegal immigration, and the Muslim invasion. When our family moved out of state over 7years ago, we left the denomination as well.

Blogger JACIII June 17, 2017 1:56 PM  

Sickening. Further proof SJW's seek to rot an organizaation from the top down. If they had only obtained a copy of SJW's always lie.....

Blogger Cynic In Chief June 17, 2017 1:58 PM  

I've bounced between NKJV, ESV, and NASB, and KJVA. It all depends on what you're want in a translation (awkward but more literal, older English in the KJV, etc) and what your church uses (to make it easier to follow along). I also like translation with the Apocrypha/Deuterocanon since I find the books in it helpful and full of wisdom, even if we can't be 100% sure about the text (the original Hebrew is lost, they are from a Greek translation of them).

Unless you're reading from the original languages and know the original culture, you're going to miss some of it. But you can avoid the translations that intentionally twist the Biblical text and you'll get 99% of what God is teaching.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 17, 2017 1:58 PM  

The social justice convergence in Bible translations has shown up in other ways, too. This came up here a couple of weeks ago... compare what the different translations have for Matthew 15:27. One must conclude that they're intentionally altering the Bible to make it more acceptable to leftists.

Anonymous Icicle June 17, 2017 1:59 PM  

And second, these translations added words and phrases not found in ancient manuscripts for the sake of inclusion.

So, lying?

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky June 17, 2017 2:01 PM  

So ridiculous. Every language present in the bible, Hebrew, Aramaic and Ancient Greek, employs gendered nouns. The very idea that you can police a language for political correctness on this front is only possible in a language like English, which only very loosely associates gender with nouns.

It is a complete and massive failure of philology, anthropology, and linguistics that this ridiculous debate isn't squashed like a bug the second it comes up. It's a transparent attempt at thought control from the beginning, anyway. This idiotic attempt is simply unsupportable in any substantial way by any scholar worth one iota.

The insane and sustained level of SJW convergence we face is just appalling.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 17, 2017 2:03 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:The social justice convergence in Bible translations has shown up in other ways, too. This came up here a couple of weeks ago... compare what the different translations have for Matthew 15:27. One must conclude that they're intentionally altering the Bible to make it more acceptable to leftists.

Noah, it gets even worse. Check out Romans 13:1

http://biblehub.com/romans/13-1.htm

Blogger kh123 June 17, 2017 2:04 PM  

Moderns playing word games with plainsville wording in the Bible. Never seen that before.

Hopefully this doesn't veer off into singular/plural issues. "But the stone cut out without hands, really, 'This is my son, hear him' means there are several million Judeo-Christs, some of which may be deaf-mute, and are the product of geologic forces over time. "Man" singular is used to denote Mankind plural, right? And what, no women?"

Blogger Achilles June 17, 2017 2:04 PM  

I've always been a Douay-Rheims man but I look forward to reading the Castalia House version.

Anonymous Icicle June 17, 2017 2:06 PM  

One must conclude that they're intentionally altering the Bible to make it more acceptable to leftists.

They would never do that. Just like they would never scrub newspaper archives and Facebook pages.

The very idea that you can police a language for political correctness on this front is only possible in a language like English, which only very loosely associates gender with nouns.

I wonder how Luther Bibles are going to end up.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 17, 2017 2:07 PM  

@20 Truly ovenworthy.

Blogger Michael Maier June 17, 2017 2:08 PM  

Vox: That's kind of funny. At one point you stated that you preferred the NIV. My own copy is from the 1970s so I guess it's safe.

Anonymous roadrage June 17, 2017 2:13 PM  

Geneva.
1560 or 1599.
Very accurate.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky June 17, 2017 2:14 PM  

kh123 wrote:Moderns playing word games with plainsville wording in the Bible. Never seen that before.

I'm waiting for them to go full Luther, and start chucking out whole books from the Bible that they deem problematic. Once again.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 17, 2017 2:14 PM  

New American used to be pretty good,

I have an old NAB from school, the first version from 1970, I think. It's funny, because it doesn't have gender-inclusive language, but it does have almost an apology for that in the introduction. Something like, "We're very very sorry if this offends anyone, but these words do have meaning, so we had to leave them alone." I don't know how much they've messed with it since then.

That translation isn't terrible, but it's just kinda pedestrian somehow. It doesn't have the grandeur of the older translations, with or without the thees and thous. But it's better than a lot of the spin-offs that came from it.

I was surprised when I learned that the RSV-CE (RSV Catholic Edition) is largely based on the KJV, since the RSV was a revision of the KJV, and the RSV-CE is the RSV plus the deuterocanonical books. It's probably the best in terms of a translation that's easier to read than the KJV or Douay-Rheims, while staying as true as possible to the original. For online lookups, I use latinvulgate.com, which gives the English and Latin side by side, which is handy.

Blogger ZhukovG June 17, 2017 2:15 PM  

The are not trying to make the Bible more acceptable to Leftists. They are trying to make Leftism more acceptable to believers, in accordance with their true Father's will.

Anonymous Sensei June 17, 2017 2:15 PM  

Biblical translation theory was fascinating to study, it forced me to strengthen my faith and also realize that God is very much more concerned with obedience on what is clear than debates over what is not.

Since then I have also realized that in the modern evangelical church the default is to let secular culture decide for us which passages are the tricky ones that can be debated rather than obeyed.
It's one of the primary ways that satan keeps much of the Church busy trying to put out floods with fire extinguishers, to borrow that very useful analogy from Lewis.

Blogger Joseph Dooley June 17, 2017 2:16 PM  

My go-to is the NET. NRSV is 2nd.

Blogger DeploraBard June 17, 2017 2:22 PM  

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men, women, and trans to do the same, xzshe shall be called the greatest in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, xzshe shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven."
Judeo Christ MT 5:19, NIV (New Inclusive Version)

Anonymous Donald Trump June 17, 2017 2:23 PM  

Look at what Twitter does to my tweets! Now imagine what happens with more complicated writing. If only they paid the same attention to biblical pronouns but covfefe. Disgusting!

Blogger Admiral James June 17, 2017 2:25 PM  

I never understood the cowtowing.
If you are a Christian or a cuck, the SJWs are going to hate you and justify destroying you just because of who you are or what they say you are.
What is the point of trying to conform?
Might as well fight for what is right and just

Blogger Admiral James June 17, 2017 2:25 PM  

I never understood the cowtowing.
If you are a Christian or a cuck, the SJWs are going to hate you and justify destroying you just because of who you are or what they say you are.
What is the point of trying to conform?
Might as well fight for what is right and just

Anonymous Ain June 17, 2017 2:26 PM  

Oops, I didn't notice the "N" in there. NKJV is as bad as the others. The KJV is also based off of the Textus Recepticus.

Changing The Word is a great lecture on Youtube that compares the KJV to modern translations.

Blogger Yarnwinder June 17, 2017 2:26 PM  

I that is the case, they have no business calling these versions 'translations'. I don't think ancient languages had a concept of 'gender-inclusive'.

I'll stick with my ancient King James version, thank you.

Anonymous Icicle June 17, 2017 2:29 PM  

Oops, I didn't notice the "N" in there.

Never use the N word.

Anonymous Cyclone Bob June 17, 2017 2:30 PM  

Gaiseric: KJV is not only a wonderful translation of the Bible, but it's also an important artifact of Western civilization in its own right.

An old pastor read Psalm 23 at my grandmother's funeral, from one of those new gayass translations.

It was worse than the holocaust.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 2:31 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:The are not trying to make the Bible more acceptable to Leftists. They are trying to make Leftism more acceptable to believers, in accordance with their true Father's will.
Very nice distinction. I will use this in the future. Thanks.

Anonymous roadrage June 17, 2017 2:32 PM  

Check out Romans 13:1-7.
"The Establishment and Limits of Civil Government" by James M. Willson(1858) and "Lectures on Calvinism"(Abraham Kuyper,1898)
are quite helpful.

Blogger praetorian June 17, 2017 2:32 PM  

> tfw the book autistes finally figure out that translations can be used as a tool in ideological warfare and hermeneutics is a thing

Blogger Ezekiel June 17, 2017 2:33 PM  

Dylan Roof did nothing wrong.

Anonymous Mao Zedong June 17, 2017 2:38 PM  

We will use big-character posters 大字报 to strike fear into the hearts of bourgeois anti-revolutionaries wherever they may be.

Blogger Ezekiel June 17, 2017 2:38 PM  

Deliver our church from cuckservatism.
Deliver our people from multiculturalism.
Deliver us from Heretic, Black, and Feminist.

St. Roof, pray for us.

Anonymous Hitler June 17, 2017 2:42 PM  

HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG

Blogger Kristophr June 17, 2017 2:48 PM  

If you control the past and the present, you control the future.

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 17, 2017 2:51 PM  

There is no authoritative translation. You are better off studying at least three English translations for some of the finer points, and make sure you have a Greek copy to consult if it gets really whacky.

For just introductory stuff or review, something like the NIV is fine. Just know that English hasn't had the masculine even close to right since about 1000 AD, so it is always going to be screwy. Even the KJV muffs it in several areas.

Put it this way, if English could perfectly transmit the meaning of the original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek in one go...well, that would sort of diminish God's work at Babel, now, wouldn't it?

Yes there are complete shit translations, and Christians should be fighting the vague malaise of SJW gender-neutering.

But don't put your faith in one "true" translation.

Because such a thing does not exist.

Anonymous p-dawg June 17, 2017 2:57 PM  

That's one reason I prefer the Vulgate. It's not perfect, but it's *better*.

Anonymous MDZ1985 June 17, 2017 2:59 PM  

"[The NASB] isn't terrible, but it's just kinda pedestrian somehow."

I've always thought so too, but I still like mine (1970's edition). I don't know any Greek or Hebrew, but I'd like to think the NASB preserves some of the feel of the ancient languages through its literalness. Not very good for memorization, though. Original KJV is still the best for that.

The constant attempts to make the Bible more "inclusive" is part of the whole modern trait of trying to change God to your liking, rather than the other way around. Good luck with that to them.

Anonymous logprof June 17, 2017 3:00 PM  

Personally, it annoys me when people call the Holy Spirit "it."

The Holy Spirit is a Person.

He, not it.

Blogger Elder Son June 17, 2017 3:02 PM  

KJV because it's nostalgic and has cool old english words. And because James. ESV because it is as close to the literal translation as you can get.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 17, 2017 3:05 PM  

Reciting the NASB as you raise your holy sword to smite thine enemy just doesn't have the same gravitas.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 17, 2017 3:06 PM  

@49, Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about the New American Bible (NAB) put out by the Vatican after Vatican II, not the NASB, which I'm not familiar with.

Blogger Conor Foran June 17, 2017 3:06 PM  

Once, in a Catholic Seminary, there was a priest who taught Latin. He had been brought to the Seminary by Raymond Cardinal Burke, who wanted him to teach the seminarians how to properly sing the music of the Church, Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polyphony.

In order to instruct his students in Latin, the priest would give them passages from the Vulgate, and other Church documents, to translate. One day, he gave them a document promulgated by the Holy See, to whom all Catholics owe obedience of faith, immediately following the conclusion of Vatican II.

The seminarians translated selections of the document. After they were done, he gave them the Official United States Council of Catholic Bishops translation - 'translation' - of the document. This 'translation' they had promulgated amongst the people and each bishop had ordered their subordinate priests to obey.

There were many discrepancies between the Latin text from the Vatican, and the 'translation' approved by the USCCB. Finally, they came to one particular segment. "This can't be right," one seminarian said. "The Latin text clearly says that, if the priest so desires, it is now permissible, but never compulsory, for the altar to be removed from the wall of the church when constructing a new church building."

"That's right," said the priest.

"But the English translation says that no matter what, every altar must be removed from the wall, that older church buildings must be altered to fit the new standard, and the priest must say Mass facing the congregation!"

"That is also right," the priest said. "When they released the official 'translation', the USCCB deliberately mistranslated the text to say the exact opposite of the original Latin, and added words of their own.

"If even one bishop had spoken up to defend the Faith, this abomination, which destroyed so many old church buildings and caused such liturgical disaster, could have been prevented. But none did.

"This happened in 1969. They've been doing this for forty years."

The class went away silent. Some were in tears.

Less than two years after Raymond Cardinal Burke was taken away from the diocese and assigned to Rome, the priest was silenced and sent into exile in the country.

Blogger James Dixon June 17, 2017 3:06 PM  

> One must conclude that they're intentionally altering the Bible to make it more acceptable to leftists.

Changing the language is always one of the left's primary tools. If they can't change the text, they'll try to redefine the words.

> It's probably the best in terms of a translation that's easier to read than the KJV

I've never understood why people claim the KJV is hard to read.

> There is no authoritative translation.

True. Pretty much any of the ones listed approvingly above will meet most people's needs. I'll stick to the KJV simply because the meddling that was done on it was long ago and is well known.

Blogger Matamoros June 17, 2017 3:16 PM  

The most accurate is the REAL Douay Rheims of 1610, translated as a "slavish", i.e. literal, translation from the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome - www.realdouayrheims.com

It has copious annotations and marginal notes, and is excellent as a study bible.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 17, 2017 3:22 PM  

Depending on the manuscript tradition you believe is most accurate, the New King James is a solid modern version from the TR side and either the NASB or the ESV are excellent translations of the Alexandrian / Westcott and Hort text tradition.

But you need to decide what principles are important to you in picking a manuscript tradition before you worry about how well it was translated into English -- let alone how much they've buggered it up with their ideological changes.

I like to compare 10 of 15 translations of anything questionable before deciding. BibleHub is a good quick way to research that.

Blogger RobertT June 17, 2017 3:25 PM  

One of the great phrases ever uttered is KJV Jeremiah 33:3. "Cry out to me and I will answer thee and show thee great & mighty things that thou knowest not." For no reason at all, it loses its punch in other translations.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 17, 2017 3:29 PM  

RobertT wrote:One of the great phrases ever uttered is KJV Jeremiah 33:3. "Cry out to me and I will answer thee and show thee great & mighty things that thou knowest not." For no reason at all, it loses its punch in other translations.

One of my favorite statements of foreboding:

"I AM the Lord, I change not. Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

Anonymous Icicle June 17, 2017 3:32 PM  

Personally, it annoys me when people call the Holy Spirit "it."

The Holy Spirit is a Person.


Is it?

Blogger Dangeresque June 17, 2017 3:49 PM  

I always wonder how this push to make everything gender neutral is going to go over once the left gets around to realizing that a large amount of its tentative political alliance speaks Spanish. Ya know, with every single noun in Spanish having either a masculine or feminine polarity and all... I'm absolutely shocked at the anti-Hispanic bigotry of these SJWs... hehehe

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 17, 2017 3:58 PM  

Personally, it annoys me when people call the Holy Spirit "it."

The Holy Spirit is a Person.

Is it?


It's not hard to demonstrate. Can you "grieve" a force?

Blogger Sheila4g June 17, 2017 3:59 PM  

My first bible was a gift from a friend, the 1977 New American Standard. I used that for years, but my children used the KJV in school so I primarily read that now. I also bought a large, fancy bible with pages for family genealogical records and including illustrations from the Vatican, but didn't clearly pay attention at the time of purchase {not at a specifically Christian store} and so didn't realize one was the Protestant and one was the Catholic, so I accidentally ended up with the Catholic one, including all the contested books at the end. It's the 1990 New Revised Standard translation.

There's literally no reason for multiple translations unless the translators are deliberately attempting to obfuscate what is clearly written. A gendered noun from a gendered language has a clear translation, and "man" is not "person" is not "soul." Just as "Thou shalt not kill" means something distinctly different from "Thou shalt not murder."

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 17, 2017 4:06 PM  

56. Matamoros June 17, 2017 3:16 PM
the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome


Jerome was no saint. the fact that the RCC calls him one is an indictment of them.

the fact the Jerome is responsible for the Vulgate translation is an embarrassment.

compare and contrast the reaction of Jesus to the death of Lazarus ( whose death was no fault of Jesus', except that Jesus did not attend to his healing earlier )

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A28-37&version=KJV

versus the reaction of Jerome, to a woman who took his advice subsequently dying:
https://infogalactic.com/info/Jerome
"Additionally, his condemnation of Blaesilla's hedonistic lifestyle in Rome had led her to adopt ascetic practices, but it affected her health and worsened her physical weakness to the point that she died just four months after starting to follow his instructions; much of the Roman populace were outraged at Jerome for causing the premature death of such a lively young woman, and his insistence to Paula that Blaesilla should not be mourned, and complaints that her grief was excessive, were seen as heartless, polarising Roman opinion against him."


which of these responses is Satanic in nature? for they cannot both be Godly, as they are in direct opposition to each other.

Jesus mourns Lazarus with Lazarus' family, whom Jesus knows he can resurrect.

Jerome rebukes Blaesilla's family and tells them they shouldn't mourn her at all.

the Catholics claim that all Saints have to have verified "miracles" in their name. doesn't it seem a bit odd that Jerome, whose advice is deemed "holy", couldn't heal a woman who was attempting to follow his prescriptions for a holy life?

things that make you go, "hrm."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 4:26 PM  

Did it occur to you bob that Jerome was telling the truth?

Anonymous b3k June 17, 2017 4:29 PM  

ESV2011 is my go-to for a good, modern language translation. Though it's always good to have 1599 Geneva and 1541 Luther to cross reference.

Blogger J A Baker June 17, 2017 4:31 PM  

KJV is for me. People say it's hard to understand, but it's really not because it's been gauged at a 6th grade reading level, and even if it is what's wrong with a little challenge any way, besides it's the only doctrinally sound version I know of, try debating a Jehovah Witness of Mormon with anything else and you will look like a bumbling idiot. Some people argue that the new modern versions are based off of older manuscripts which differ doctrinally from the later known manuscripts we have which were the sources fir the KJV, to which the answer to that is that though a manuscript may be older, age does not equal accuracy. The reason we do not have very old copies of the manuscripts from where we get the KJV is because the older ones were used and copied so many times that many of them were lost, discarded or destroyed from natural wear and tear, they weren't kept hidden from history for so many centuries. The manuscripts that the modern versions are translated from it is said were authored by a cultic off shoot of the first Christians and who denied the devinity of Christ, and their manuscripts reflect this denial.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 17, 2017 4:31 PM  

Anyone using the Youngs Literal Translation?

Anonymous Stryker4570 June 17, 2017 4:36 PM  

MZD1985, Re:the NASB translation. My friend who studied the Biblical languages in college and Seminary all used the NASB to check their translations. They said it was literally word for word translation even preserving the word order where possible. That's why it's not as smooth reading as some other translations because it preserved many of the idiosyncrasies of the original languages. It is my go to translation when I study. For general reading the ESV is decent and the NKJV I like even better.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab June 17, 2017 5:02 PM  

Speaking as a Catholic, I enjoy the KJV, the language is beautiful. Other modern translations not so much. Does this version have Elizabeth telling Mary, 'Blessed art thou among people'?

Blogger S1AL June 17, 2017 5:11 PM  

The ESV is the most accurate translation for modern American English, based on my comparisons between it and the NIV/NKJV/random others. It's a very strict word-for-word first, contextual phrasing second translation. And the authors don't play games with pronouns or give preferential treatment to viewpoint-based translation on tough issues. Even the study version presents a huge variety of views on difficult passages. I'd recommend it as a "daily reading" translation for any English speaker (there's a British variant as well).

Blogger Robert What? June 17, 2017 5:16 PM  

Interesting. If the Bible is now gender neutral how do we reinterpret the admonition from Leviticus? "A person shall not lieth with another person as if with a person."?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 17, 2017 5:21 PM  

If the Bible is now gender neutral...

Ah, but you see it's selectively gender neutral.

Blogger Robert What? June 17, 2017 5:23 PM  

How long before we see a trans inclusive Bible? "A man identifying as a woman shall not lie with a woman identifying as a man unless they both feel like it."

Blogger liberranter June 17, 2017 5:23 PM  

The rationale behind the rebuke was two-fold. First, inclusive translations abolish many gender-specific terms. For example, they may change “father” to “parent,” “son” to “child,” and “man” to “mortal.” And second, these translations added words and phrases not found in ancient manuscripts for the sake of inclusion. A common example is the translation of “brother” as “brother or sister.”...

Much as I hate to give them credit for anything, the Muslims might be on to something by strictly defining the Quran as the original Arabic text dictated by the prophet Muhammad. Any translations of the text into other tongues are referred to as "The Meaning of the Quran," and are not trusted as liturgically authoritative. The founding generation of Islam seems to have realized early on the risk of bastardization of the Quran's meaning through endless translations.

It used to be that we in the Christian West had a means in place to mitigate this risk to the Bible - by including Hebrew and Greek in the curriculum of classical education. We need to reinstate this, PDQ. The future integrity of the Christian faith may depend upon it.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 17, 2017 5:26 PM  

65. Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 4:26 PM
Did it occur to you bob that Jerome was telling the truth?



ah.

so Jesus was lying when he mourned with Mary and Martha.

yep, that's pretty much the only alternative to explain diametrically opposed approaches to the identical situation. call me ca-razy, but i think i'm going to go with the example Jesus provided.

otherwise, Jerome could have admitted being a dumbass and expressed regret that his crappy advice had gotten "Saint" Paula's daughter needlessly dead. only, sociopaths don't do personal responsibility. much easier to accuse the stupid mother of being theologically unsound.

need i point out that you're also saying "Saint" Paula is theologically wrong, for mourning her daughter in the first place? silly, silly "Saint" Paula.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Saint_Paula

Anonymous Brick Hardslab June 17, 2017 5:27 PM  

@74 You forgot the part about consent. It's got to be in there somewhere.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 6:04 PM  

Bob,
Suppose, for just a moment, that Lazarus was not the same person as Blasilla. Perhaps, just perhaps, her adoption of monastic life was a ruse and a lie, and that her death was inded a punishment from God.

No, you're right, the wages of sin aren't death, and Blasilla was exactly the same person as Lazarus. It's obvious.

Blogger Stilicho June 17, 2017 6:06 PM  

Christians can take heart at this and similar developments. The leftists and sjw's, not content with persecuting Christians, have decide to attack scripture and God himself. It's a bold strategy. Let's see how it works out for them.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) June 17, 2017 7:03 PM  

78. Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 6:04 PM
Perhaps, just perhaps, her adoption of monastic life was a ruse and a lie, and that her death was inded a punishment from God.



so Blaesilla is going to Hell? and her death signifies that there is no longer any opportunity for her to repent?

and your position is that her mother should NOT mourn that? that 'Saint' Paula was first deceived by her daughter's "false repentance" and then fails to rejoice in Blaesilla's eternal damnation?

so ...

why did the Church canonize Paula, then? she seems to be fumbling and bumbling all over the place doctrinally, according to you.


either that or you might want to reconsider how many contortions you're willing to put yourself through in order to justify the abhorrent actions of an obvious clown show.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 17, 2017 7:54 PM  

"50. logprof June 17, 2017 3:00 PM

Personally, it annoys me when people call the Holy Spirit "it."

The Holy Spirit is a Person.

He, not it.
"



That's because you're a trinitarian.

Blogger Gary Eden June 17, 2017 8:01 PM  

KJV is a good translation, but its not in our language; several words have changed meaning in the last 400 years. And there are several intentional mistranslations in it.

NKJV and NASB are both very good modern literal translations. Highly recommended.

ESV is converged. There are several poor translations in it. One howler is in 1 Cor 11, due to a historical revisionist attempt by Grudem to confuse the message in that anti-feminist passage.

I can't stand reading the NIV, written at a 4th grade level, feels like reading a kids book.

There was a need for a modern literal translation, but that need is well met now. Anyone making a new translation at this point is just angling for money or to compromise the Word.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2017 8:23 PM  

((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Give us this day our daily bait, that we may crush our enemies, see their weaksauce driven before us and hear the lamentations of their women, thank you Baby Jesus, Amen ) wrote:and your position is that her mother should NOT mourn that? that 'Saint' Paula was first deceived by her daughter's "false repentance" and then fails to rejoice in Blaesilla's eternal damnation?

so ...

why did the Church canonize Paula, then? she seems to be fumbling and bumbling all over the place doctrinally, according to you.

either that or you might want to reconsider how many contortions you're willing to put yourself through in order to justify the abhorrent actions of an obvious clown show.

What the hell is wrong with you, bob?
Maybe St Paula is wrong. Maybe St Jerome is wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Just kidding, I'm never wrong.
Sainthood is not some magic imprimatur, guaranteeing everything a person did is entirely in accord with the mind of God. Hell, it's not even an imprimatur that everythng they taught is okay. Augustine was famously heretical.
You remind me of my history teacher who would literally fly into spittle-flecked rage over Gracchus' election as tribune.
You don't know the state of Jerome's soul. You don't know the state of Paula's soul. You don't know the state of Blasilla's soul. All you know is that Jerome was a jerk about it. Even if he was wrong and in sin, which is far from proven, it has literally nothing to do with anything, particularly the quality of Jerome's translation.
I don't worry about the sins of the people in my immediate vicinity. You really shouldn't worry about the sins of someone who's been dead for 1500 years.

Blogger John rockwell June 17, 2017 8:27 PM  

See many more examples here:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/cbmw.niv2011.2.pdf

They even mad the male only monarchy of ancient Israel gender inclusive by replacing "man'' with heir.

Anonymous Jack June 17, 2017 9:06 PM  

"Forgive them, Parent, for they know not what they do."

"Foxes have dens and birds have their nests, but the Child of Mortal has nowhere to rest his - or her - head."

Yeah, that's got a real ring to it. This is sure to fill the pews like never before.

Blogger Farnswords June 17, 2017 9:21 PM  

This is my favorite tool for Bible study. It is very easy to use, and I enjoy seeing the flow of thought in the ancient languages.

http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm

Screw the SBC.

Anonymous republican mother June 17, 2017 9:55 PM  

I've seen that presentation. Very powerful! Most people don't realize that there are really just two bibles in the world. Also check out "Tares among the Wheat" by Chris Pinto-the backstory on codex sinaiticus you won't learn in church.

Anonymous Simplytimothy June 17, 2017 10:30 PM  

I never understood the cowtowing.>

My guess is they don't know the living God. That they are in bondage to their chosen dogmas, trusting themselves rather than the risen Christ who dwells in them.


A Catholic friend pointed out that early Christians had no New Testament.

Clearly the SBC is lacking something essential be that our early brethren had.

Anonymous Simplytimothy June 17, 2017 10:51 PM  

I see the mobile version of Infogalactic appears with search results.


https://infogalactic.com/info/Bible



Very nice work

Blogger Connie Chastain June 18, 2017 6:33 AM  

SBC is losing members and committing suicide. They'll figure it out when it's too late, probably.

Blogger bw June 18, 2017 9:13 AM  

James Dobson-led

Game theory nails this one:

Physiognomy is Real.

trusting themselves rather than the risen Christ

Most friends and family I know are of this evangelical type bent (except for the Marxist feminists and their manginas).
Mixed with the pre-mill and Israel schtuff, this has been the conclusion I've come to as well.
They believe in Institution and false dogma (heresy) and cult Marx over the shed blood - diluting the Finished Work and the Person.
Hell, they can't even read Gospel of John and book of Acts and name the protag and antag..

Anonymous Didas Kalos June 18, 2017 1:13 PM  

The NIV is a HORRIBLE translation of a corrupt underlying text.

Should we hold our breath for the SBC to pass a resolution condemning La Raza?

Blogger szopen June 18, 2017 2:22 PM  

Fund the nationalist churches :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0qMGuqwW1w

Blogger szopen June 18, 2017 2:24 PM  

damn, FOUND, not fund :D

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club June 18, 2017 3:46 PM  

"the Colorado Springs Guidelines allow for certain instances of anthropos to be translated in a gender-inclusive way."

Well then that's okay then. It's not like letting progtards get a foot in the door has ever led to a suicidal downward spiral.

Footnotes to the the guidelines indicate that the SBC is down a million since 1997, and this looks to be a move to furthr accelerate the shrinking.

Blogger jandolin June 18, 2017 7:08 PM  

Cuckwatchers are wondering when the SBC will release the trans-gender inclusive Bible.

Anonymous Icicle June 19, 2017 1:12 AM  

That's called the Talmud.

Anonymous vfm 9499 June 22, 2017 11:19 AM  

That article in the Atlantic is full of lies and half-truths, completely misrepresenting nearly every pertinent detail of the issue. You have made one of the most elementary mistakes -- you are allowing a person/organization/event to be defined by its enemies, rather than listening to him/her/it:

http://www.dennyburk.com/have-southern-baptists-embraced-gender-inclusive-bible-translation-not-by-a-longshot/

http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2017/june/gender-hscb-csb-christian-standard-bible.html

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts