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Saturday, June 24, 2017

They broke their oaths

Oathkeepers are no more keeping their oaths to defend the American Constitution and thereby secure the Blessings of Liberty to the posterity of the People of the United States than conservatives have conserved anything.
Rich @itswildrich
White Nationalism - the radically "racist" idea that Whites have a right to preserve their homelands and culture. Just like everybody else.

Oath Keepers‏ @Oathkeepers
That is NOT what white nationalism is all about. They advocate 'saving' their race at expense of harming innocents; i.e. anyone not white.

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday  now
Why do you support the elimination of American posterity? A nation is a people, not borders or an idea. You have failed your oaths.
They have broken their oaths. They are rightly dismissed with contempt as "Oathcuckers". They may not like to hear that, but it is obvious to anyone who understands the purpose of the Constitution they are sworn to uphold.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Posterity is not an idea. Posterity is not geography. Posterity is not paperwork. Posterity is descendance and DNA. Far too many U.S. citizens today are no more the posterity of We the People than they are of the Iroquois, the Cherokee, or the Mohicans, whose ancestral lands they now inhabit.

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511 Comments:

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Blogger roughcoat June 24, 2017 10:28 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:You mean you're not going to try to find out? How very disappointing, takes-it-rough-up-the-ass. Then again, I didn't expect better of a coward.

You some kinda homophobe brah? I thought you oathcuck boomer types were all about the manlove. Tolerance and all that.

Don't worry sweetie, you're safe. Also, more with the cliche! I'm definitely submitting your picture to Merriam Webster and asking that they add "boomercuck" to the dictionary in 2018.

Anonymous Anonymous June 24, 2017 10:28 PM  

John Jay argued it was appropriate to unite the states politically under the constitution because the American people were *already* ethnically united by shared race, language, religion and political ideals.

"Our posterity" must therefore refer to people for whom the constitution is appropriate for the same reasons it was appropriate for the Americans of 1788: "strongest ties" - shared northwest European race, English language, Protestant religion and Whig political ideals. This can only mean the physical descendants of the Americans of 1788, or newcomers similar enough and few in number enough to radically assimilate to the American ethnicity.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 24, 2017 10:30 PM  

Kratman you incorrigible fool.

It's like you have some sort of masochistic need to be mocked.
Just quit.

Why would I or anyone else fight you? when we can make you look like a shell of a man. Reduced to insults and the need to prove himself with the strength of his arms.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 24, 2017 10:32 PM  

Watching Tonya self - immolate is really quite the treat.
Please don't stop Col. Queef, PLEASE.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 10:32 PM  

You probably are stupid enough to believe that, Takin. Everything you've written here, so far, indicates it. Poor you.

I'm not actually afraid of anything that doesn't involve the health and safety of my family, I don't think, takes-it-rough-up-the-ass. I will, of course, deal with anything that does in an appropriate way or, at least, a way that seems appropriate to the ultimate judge of such things, me.

Coward.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 10:35 PM  

Sorry, Ransom, you contemptable pussy, but that doesn't work with me. See, I enjoy this. I really do. I'm sure you can find someone as stupid, undiscerning, and cowardly as yourself to tell you you won, but that answer will be as good as he is or you are, which is to say, worthless. As for being mocked, being mocked by idiots is no shame or problem.

Coward.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 10:38 PM  

An interesting leap of logic, anonymous, but a) we weren't entirely any of those things and b) no, our posterity still has no necessary genetic component, while c) when you admit "newcomers similar enough and few in number enough to radically assimilate to the American ethnicity" you've already self refuted the pure descent argument, and we're just talking about how much non-descent-driven citizenship is prudent.

Blogger roughcoat June 24, 2017 10:38 PM  

Do you keep a spreadsheet of the crappy insults you come up with for people who make fun of you online? Honest question. I know old age is rough on the memory.

I do find it amusing being called a coward by a guy who sat out OIF/OEF.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 24, 2017 10:39 PM  

>Coward
>Pussy
>Stupid
>Undiscerning
>Worthless
>Coward (Redundant much are we?)

I need one more for the bingo card boys. Kartman should know. He's of bingo age after all.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 10:43 PM  

I went to the first one, pussy. Which war have you gone to? No, no, you're GenX or Millennial skin was just too precious for that, wasn't it? Not for mommy's little darling boy; oh, no, never.

Coward.

But you're more cowardly than ordinary, ransom. You deserve it twice.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 24, 2017 10:45 PM  

407. roughcoat
Haven't you seen JAG ? That's like Col. Tonya Kukmann's life story. JIDF needed him here, no time for that stuff.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 10:48 PM  

I actually pity you Kratman

I don't remember much of "Caliphate" except the hare and hawk scene and the titillating under-age rape scenes and the one Philippines rape/bombing scene.

Otherwise, you were as boring as "Gargantua and Pantagruel". There was more world building and character development in many b books I read such as "Antarktos" or "Ancestor". or anything by Max Hawthorne or Warren Fahy.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 24, 2017 10:49 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:@384

"NCIS Civic Nationalism Larping is not going to work as a form of government."

Course not. The question - the legitimate and useful question - isn't between a Himmlerish wet dream of purity but how much can we take or should we take, how much can we leave here and how much should we.



Minus all the posturing bullshit is there anyone here who actually disagrees with this?

In a country where perfectly good White people have touches of all kinds of bloodlines, Jewish, Asian, Amerind and even the ones that don't have them aren't any specific ethnicity to speak of, its stupid to be on about White Nationalism

Ain't no such thing

And Europe has its own national identities.

If you wanted a serious policy proposal if it could be done I'd start with this

A ban on all future immigration except for a very limited number of family/spouse/service visas and one time only Boer refugees. They'll make shit Americans but its simply to prevent genocide. One time only, USG helps, they leave or refuse. Not our problem . Drop them off with two year of welfare in places like Detroit and boom done

Deport all non Christian Middle Easterners any non assimilated Asians ,Africans Mestizos , Indios and others even Eastern/Southern Europeans as many as quickly possible. Lets say 40-50 million over 10 years, Children do not get citizenship

Build a system where our Black countrymen can either behave or leave or get locked up This means meaningful employment and stable families at the skill level they have. This isn't efficient but no matter what anyone says , these people are our countrymen and deserve a chance at the new republic

The ones that don't get it can be dealt with.

At least that is a specific idea, it may not be possible but it sure as shit beats trying to repeat the NDSAP regime or arguing over bloodlines or any other bullshit . Spend the energy on building better social models not dreaming about Hugo Bass uniforms

Baring a collapse and some Northwest Front thing, we are going to have some or more than a bit of civic nationalism . Not optimal but better to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.



Blogger Ransom Smith June 24, 2017 10:50 PM  

Does anyone want to tell Kratman America hasn't actually been at war since Vietnam?

Double coward. I think in that case it's a double negative? So it's a reverse coward.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 10:53 PM  

Does he break out into twanging country & western when ratings get low as well John Mosby?

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 10:59 PM  

For example John Mosby

I remember the actor who played Harm was supposed to sing some twanging C&W song

https://youtu.be/wkfjnDAHkUM

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 24, 2017 11:00 PM  

I think he's more into the Salsa,musica, Takin.
Tonya, some clarification here, por favor ?

Blogger roughcoat June 24, 2017 11:01 PM  

> attended war that lasted 42 days
> calls people online cowards when the only millennial soldiers who spent less than 42 days in country in the middle east are dead or permanently disabled

Good one boomercuck. I got me a CIB too, Tommy. Difference is mine didn't grant me special snowflake powers.

Anonymous Sharrukin June 24, 2017 11:04 PM  

412. A.B. Prosper

The problem is..who is 'we'?

Who decides these things if you aren't going to exclude anyone?

Blacks have their own ethnic agenda as do the Hispanics. Do they get a vote, or a voice in the decision making?

Does democracy get the boot along with women voting? If not, women and minorities will dominate the political election cycle as they currently do. And they will vote their way back to where we started.

What of substance in your proposal are you changing over the long term?

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 11:07 PM  

Not a bad idea, perfect is indeed the enemy of the good.

@A B. Prosper.

But the Jews and non-Jap Asians all go back. Think I'm being mean and heartless? Read this, all of it and absorb it to your core. Even the niggers and spics aren't as ultimately horrifying and deadly long-term as these f*ckers are.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/ashkepathy/

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 11:08 PM  

Timocracy, Sharrukin.

Doubt it, takes-it-rough-up-the-ass; you're too much of a coward.

You think wrong, Ransom, you pussy.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 11:16 PM  

I think all of that sounds good, A.B., however, wrt to "Build a system where our Black countrymen can either behave or leave or get locked up," if we'd just go back to common sense law and execute all, and I mean ALL, common law felons + certain breakers of fiscal duties (Bernie Madoff types), plus shoot or gas 22 million or so liberals and lefties, it would be better. However, we would still have the problem of not enough black males, and not enough of them good marriage material, for the remaining black women. All the solutions to that have their own problems, but the problem will never go away until the damage done to blacks by liberals (Forget slavery and Jim Crow, liberalism was the real insurmountable atrocity) is undone.

Anonymous Sharrukin June 24, 2017 11:21 PM  

420. Tom Kratman

Timocracy, Sharrukin.

Wasn't that already tried in most (nearly all) American states and England as well? It didn't work. It vanished in the US in less than 50 years. It would take less time in this day and age.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 11:26 PM  

Damn, either we touched a nerve or you have a rotating staff spouting out the same nonsense.

Clean up the black women of stds and offer them as wives and second wives to beta white men. Could do the same to a lot of the red women as well.

I actually sort of agree with you on this. It would result in the "she's beautiful" demographics for about 50 years, then white genes would take back over rather rapidly. As long as we had a moratorium on non-white immigration(including Jews) for the next 500 years.

Anonymous DMV June 24, 2017 11:32 PM  

Almost-Colonel Kumbaya has no answer for a logical argument so he must resort to insults. Nobody is shocked. Boomers are nothing if not blustering, self-righteous assholes. Time is not on your side, old man. Neither is history. You might live long enough to see your Disney World ripped to shreds, not by your Nazi boogeymen, but by reality.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 11:32 PM  

No, though I think I know what leads you to that.

Timocracy actually means "rule of virtue" or "rule of the virtuous." In ancient times, where one's place in the line of battle depended on one's wealth (soldiers bought their own equipment) there was possibly some correlation. However, in more modern times, ever since governments undertook to supply armies with all their needs, really, wealth has had no particular virtue associated with it.

In the sense I am using it, I mean the civic virtue underlying Heinlein's Starship Troopers, and as expanded upon in my Desert Called Peace series and also in a string of everyjoe columns. Hence, civic virtue as demonstrated by a period of _voluntary_ difficult and dangerous, plus low paid, service.

I do not, by the way, necessarily think I should have the vote since, a) i was well paid, b) I not only enjoyed the infantry, but my life would have been blighted had I not been a soldier.

Anonymous Nobody in Particular June 24, 2017 11:33 PM  

If the Founders had wanted to write "descendants", they would have written exactly that.
Some of them saw the American Revolution as the dawn of a new age of liberty, a hope that briefly seemed confirmed by the French Revolution.
It's at least plausible that some American revolutionaries wanted to secure the blessings of liberty for all future generations on Earth, in the sense of lighting a fire that should never be extinguished.
Some of the American revolutionaries may have thought along the same lines as Vox Day, posterity=descendants, but what about Thomas Paine? Strange, to say the least, to never see his name come up.
It's too easy to find quotes supporting my interpretation:
"The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Many circumstances hath, and will arise, which are not local, but universal, and through which the principles of all Lovers of Mankind are affected, and in the Event of which, their Affections are interested."
"But admitting, that we were all of English descent, what does it amount to? Nothing."
And most significant here:
"This new world hath been the asylum for the persecuted lovers of civil and religious liberty from every part of Europe. Hither have they fled, not from the tender embraces of the mother, but from the cruelty of the monster; and it is so far true of England, that the same tyranny which drove the first emigrants from home, pursues their descendants still."
The "new world" that was the "asylum" was the British colonies that covered most of North America, at the time home to English, French, and German religious dissidents.
This is only a pamphlet and not legally binding. But it may give a view of what people were thinking at the time of the Declaration of Independence, especially about securing the "Blessings of Liberty".
Far from rejecting foreigners, Thomas Paine was making an explicit appeal to foreign sympathy and abjuring his English roots. Also, he was claiming his land as "the asylum for the persecuted lovers of civil and religious liberty from every part of Europe".
Some American revolutionaries probably saw themselves as noble and fighting for the common cause of all mankind. Their choice of words may reflect that.
The aspects mentioned above are not conclusive, but neither should they be swept under the rug.
It looks more likely to me that "posterity" is a compromise formulation, ambiguous and open-ended by intent.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 11:34 PM  

When I hear a logical argument, DMV, you limp wristed pervert, I will respond to it as such. I have not heard any from you, however.

Idiot.

Coward.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 24, 2017 11:35 PM  

Col. Tonya Katfish,
What about you lawyers ? Like my Daddy ( God rest his soul )
said to me " When you got more Attorneys than Auto Mechanics in the yellow pages, you know this country has gone to hell. "
How about we start thinning the herd with you guys ?

Blogger roughcoat June 24, 2017 11:37 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Doubt it, takes-it-rough-up-the-ass; you're too much of a coward.

I gave it a bit of a wait to see if reality would change because of your pronouncement and I'm sorry to say, no dice. Still got my CIB, still got my DD-214.

Oh well. Maybe your special snowflake powers will come back with some rest.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 11:37 PM  

Since I don't practice, anymore, Remus, I can contribute a list of names.

However, shitty as lawyers typically are, at least they're not as stupid as you.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 24, 2017 11:38 PM  

Sorry, just don't believe you. Anyone so much of a coward is not fit for line of battle and doubtless never served in one.

Anonymous DMV June 24, 2017 11:44 PM  

Well, Almost-Colonel Kumbaya, you've got your head stuck up your cucked ass. Not likely you're going hear anything.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora June 24, 2017 11:44 PM  

So the definition of posterity in this case either means what Kratman says it does, or it is impossible to determine. Either way, does it really matter? A lot has changed since the late 1700's. It's up to people today to decide what they want and to fight for it without being shackled by men long since dead. Who knows what will happen when the US breaks apart but I would support ethnic nationalism in such an event.

Don't know why people have trouble accepting both the fact that posterity as it was used in the constitution doesn't make a solid constitutional case for Anglo nationalism and the current necessity for ethnic nationalism. It's not like accepting the first argument negates the reality of the second. So people can't strongly appeal to the constitution, they still have science, history, and reality itself to appeal to.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 24, 2017 11:44 PM  

Okay, I'm just gonna skip to the end.

#1: The Constitution hasn't been particularly pertinent to what is happening in reality in some time.

#2: The founders, grateful to them though we may be, were human. You try to think of everything, you get a heck of a lot of things, you miss some things, and everything eventually goes to hell regardless, because humans aren't perfect.

#3: Cowardice? They have a point, Kratman. Look, you can stick your chest out into the firing line and get it filled with bullets, and do it because pride (read: vainglory) demanded it of you, (like I probably do, if my name were less common and my typical activities weren't so low profile as to defy description), but honestly, if you don't have a reason to do so it's stupid to do so. Just plain stupid. For you, you can afford that little bit of vainglory, for many people, they have to save it for when they think it will mean the most.

Ultimately, your "cowardice" jabs attempting to get a rise out of these guys, well, you don't know why they use pseudonyms. To be more fair, if they've been using them since before they've irritated you, it's not only unfair of you to assume that they do it so that they can be jerks, but rather vaingloriously (stupid) on your part to assume that you are so important to them that they should do that just for you. In all likelihood, you just aren't. Not even close. No, I'm not saying that you consciously thought that that was why they were doing it. Yes, if we're all being honest here, that's exactly what you were thinking, whether consciously or subconsciously.

Even beyond that, as others have pointed out, Vox himself has encouraged not using actual names on at least one occasion that I am aware of, so, what, you're gonna call people cowards for taking good advice? Step off your ego trip for just a second. Yes, by the way, this is my real name.

#4: The most obvious and straightforward interpretation of the word "posterity" is children and grandchildren and so on and so forth. I don't really see how anyone can argue this any other way without attempting to apply some rather thin rationalization. Frankly, I don't think they cared a hell of a lot about race, or at least they didn't care enough to specify. Perhaps they just didn't even suspect it would get at crazy as it's gotten. No one ever expects that leaving the door to their house unlocked will end with things stolen if they've never had experience with (or stories of) thieves. Yes, "posterity" is obviously genetic, because your descendants are obviously genetically related to you. No, the founders didn't specifically say "white". Were the founders all white themselves? Were they close enough? Hmmmn. Psychological projection works in all directions... not only idiots do it, really everyone assumes that people are like them at some level.

#5: The Constitution is no longer terribly constituent to the present day. Should X be X (X is X)? Should Y be X (Not without some really, really good reasons, and maybe not even then)? These are the questions that should be occupying our time. If you're digging into the Constitution to try to find what exactly went wrong (for the next ring around the rosies), be my guest, but anything else is definitively less than a productive endeavor.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 11:47 PM  

Goddamn....you'll still be spouting off legal decrees when you are rattling your last breath on your death bed....smh.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora June 24, 2017 11:48 PM  

Anonymity gives you optionality, which is wonderful. You can always choose to drop it, but this doesn't work the other way around. But to be fair, he already said anonymity is fine, it's how you use it. Not that insulting people with your name showing means much online. It's all cowardice unless you're face to face.

Anonymous Sharrukin June 24, 2017 11:49 PM  

425. Tom Kratman

Timocracy actually means "rule of virtue" or "rule of the virtuous."

Well the Obama and Clinton crowd think we are already living in that paradise at least until Trump showed up.

Which again brings up the problem of who 'we' are.

Virtue to the blacks of Baltimore, Detroit, Somalia, Nigeria, Brazil, etc is probably not the same virtue that Hispanics or women would choose.

Until you decide who 'we' are and who 'we' are NOT, you can't even begin to make rational plans.

Ideology is not a basis for such decisions because ideology in many ways is a function of the nation and the culture. This is one of the reasons western democracy and freedoms can rarely be exported.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 24, 2017 11:56 PM  

@solaire of astora

He's a baby boomer who made his fortune within the last 25-40 years as a mercenary and various other arts without the laser scrutiny of the modern-day interconnected world. He fucked up many times and easily got away with it. For you and I to do so would require skills only a very rare few with high IQ have. He knows this which leads us to wonder if he is attempting to dox people for money.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 24, 2017 11:57 PM  

What democracy?

Blogger roughcoat June 25, 2017 12:01 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Sorry, just don't believe you. Anyone so much of a coward is not fit for line of battle and doubtless never served in one.

Good. Wouldn't want you dragging down the average quality of the men who respect me.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 25, 2017 12:16 AM  

The truth is, Kratman is womanly, he keeps acting like the feminists who gave unenlisted men white feathers during ww1.

"Why aren't you dying overseas you coward?!?!" except he doesn't even have the enticement of a stable homeland or hot, young, fertile pussy on hand. Hell, even a feminine twink trap would be more convincing than him. No... he's just a weird old Mischling mudsharker trying to play that tired old patriot game.S

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 12:17 AM  

"It's all cowardice unless you're face to face."

Depends on what it is you're afraid of, no?

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 25, 2017 12:25 AM  

Sharrukin wrote:412. A.B. Prosper

The problem is..who is 'we'?

Who decides these things if you aren't going to exclude anyone?

Blacks have their own ethnic agenda as do the Hispanics. Do they get a vote, or a voice in the decision making?

Does democracy get the boot along with women voting? If not, women and minorities will dominate the political election cycle as they currently do. And they will vote their way back to where we started.

What of substance in your proposal are you changing over the long term?


Truth is, it comes down to whoever has the interest, will and raw force in cases like this.

As for the remaining groups, having a single dominant power base should curb problems, Hispanic interests were a minor issue when Hispanics were 5% of the population

Still it may may come down to collapse and competing ethno-states though in which case the WN crowd if they are hard enough might get a shot at what they want.

Problem is that the separation will lead to perpetual continental war either with divergent ethnic or religious groups or Damned Yankees or some other starry eyed shit for brains wanting to rebuild this Damnable republic.

Female suffrage won't go away until the population is decucked enough

As to Timocracy, it was tried on the US and found wanting and frankly owning property doesn't grant any virtue in age with the amount of wealth we have. It might be the minimum needed to vote but its inadequate to lead or rule an frankly we need people who do that don't run off to Monticello 2.0 before the ink is dry . Building a nation is a ton of work and our rebel class is too lazy and thus unworthy to rule.

Timocracy may also not be compatible with a mostly urban post industrial economy like we have, I don't know for sure.

Anonymous The Shadowed Knight June 25, 2017 12:28 AM  

Plenty of us served. The difference is that we have no illusions that our service did any good. We went to fight them over there so we did not have to fight them over here, and... oops, shit, we are fighting them over here anyway. While the Millenial military men were away, the women and politicians invited our enemies into the country. Now we have people with names like Mohammed and Ahmed shooting and bombing in America. So much for defending America from the scourge of terrorism, and we can recognize that.

Your service was likewise useless, you just refuse to face that. You made the world safe for democracy or something? Good job, bro. Glad you had our back all these years. What a relief. no, wait... looks like the unelected government in America is doing its best to prevent the actual elected leader from doing anything. Looks like you did not do nearly the job you thought you did. Oh, well, that is life.

The Shadowed Knight

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 25, 2017 12:34 AM  

@444 the shadowed knight

Excellent trips and quite true.

Darkness approves.

https://youtu.be/ZbQgvnX0hk8

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 25, 2017 12:38 AM  

Oathkippahs!

@373 Tom Kratman
"And speaking of cowards, why, it's our own B'rer Remus, come up from the plantation and his cotton picking, to associate with real folks"

Das rayciss.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 25, 2017 12:41 AM  

". No... he's just a weird old Mischling mudsharker trying to play that tired old patriot game"

And to expand on this... You are looong past your sell-by date... Pee-yew! (pinches nose at eau de ancien Kratman)

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 12:44 AM  

Soldiers buy time, SK. Time is worth buying. Time must be bought, because there is neither perfection nor eternity other than in the hands of the Almighty.

@443

You might want to see the explanation I gave to Sharrukin, AB. I didn't intend or imply that version of timocracy.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 12:46 AM  

Yawn. It's getting late, Takin, so let me leave you to the no doubt warm embrace of the love of your life, complete to gaps in her teeth, bad skin, stretch marks, and a tramp stamp, down in your mom's basement.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 25, 2017 12:50 AM  

It’s instructive to watch how the SDL argues with the Colonel.

Colonel, to follow up on @142, I have no idea what perspective you hold on the ACW, but were I was going is that Lincoln destroyed the first Constitution. It is farcical to say that the post-CW Constitution was intended to guarantee the blessings of liberty to Southern-Americans or their posterity.

As far as your interpretation of ‘posterity’, tying it it with some of your later comments re: war propaganda, I point out that we are currently in a war, and the bulk of the people likely to side with us believe in the Constitution. Regardless of what any particular Founding Father (or any particular Radical Reconstructionist) precisely intended by the term, the strict dictionary definition is a powerful rhetorical tool to rally them against Invader-Americans.

Is interprereting a modestly ambiguous term in our favor really that bad, given the circumstances? Especially if the alternative is turning the Constitution into a sucide pact for white Americans.

Anonymous Sharrukin June 25, 2017 1:05 AM  

443. A.B. Prosper

Hispanic interests were a minor issue when Hispanics were 5% of the population

Agreed. Which means that Texas (and California) for example with nearly 40% Hispanic is going to be a battleground and the US in general would lose 35 million somehow.

It won't happen without widespread bloodshed even if we get off as easily as the Soviets did during their collapse, which we likely won't. The Soviets had ready made ethnic Republics already in existence. The US does not.

The US also has the dependent black population and other urban groups. They have no where to go and nothing to offer anyone as far as products or skills. If no one needs their votes any longer the gravy train ends for them.

They will turn violent and take whatever they can before they starve or barter that violent behavior in return for more handouts.

The cycle of violence will be exploited by the more radical and extreme elements who will emerge as defenders of their respective communities.

Radicals have less invested in the status quo and less to lose. The guy who punched out Moldylocks in Berkeley is an example. Nathan Damigo is a white nationalist and many were applauding his action despite disagreeing with his beliefs. Large segments of the population will become radicalized by what they see and what they suffer.

In Prijedor, the massacres were carried out at a mine where mere days before the killers and victims had worked alongside one another. "... Serbs, Bosniaks, Croats. They were workers for this company," says Sudbin. "And now you have a place where those living together were killed.

My point is that what you now think is currently possible or acceptable to decent people holds no meaning. Those aren't the people who will be around because those same people will have become something else entirely.

It also won't be done by the people you might imagine. Leftists are by and large very comfortable with thinking along ethnic lines while conservatives tend not be be.

You will probably over time see more leftist recruits in the white militias than you will conservatives.

I also think the leftists will be more formidable than we on the right imagine because unlike the right they tend to follow orders and do as they are told and this makes them inherently more organized than the right even if less skilled. The right is more apt to get into a fist fight in the parking lot about whether to put anchovies on the pizza.

It also won't be perpetual war as we have seen elsewhere because there exists no power on earth that could exert that sort of limiting force in an American Civil War. There will be no intervention like we saw in Yugoslavia and no brakes on the train to hell.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 25, 2017 1:10 AM  

@Kratman

I know you're a Mischling, but stop projecting your sick fantasies on the gentiles. That got old with Freud. At least drug your mystery meat wife like your fellow Mischling Bill Cosby does to his women before humiliating her.

Anonymous The Shadowed Knight June 25, 2017 1:15 AM  

You bought time? Time for what? Constantly losing today for the victory tomorrow, then tomorrow comes and it becomes the next loss today for tomorrow's victory. You spent all of your time losing. Why would we ever listen to you?

The Shadowed Knight

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 25, 2017 1:15 AM  

@451 Sharrukin

I... Love this post. No homo, no bs, it is quite literally the best tl;dr I have ever read.

Blogger Student in Blue June 25, 2017 1:22 AM  

I used to have respect for Col Kratman. That went away pretty quick over the course of this thread.

Now all he's doing is making me hate boomers even more, somehow.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy June 25, 2017 1:25 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Puppy, on the contrary, absent the 14th Amendment there were no restrictions on state restrictions on arms. The bill of rights was only a defense against the federal government. That's a basic error you need to purge yourself of. I am surprised, given the tone of the board, in general, that you've fallen for the notion that the bill of rights did anything but limit the feds.
The First Amendment specifies that ‘Congress shall make no law’. None of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights limit their scope to Congress's actions. There is no other plausible interpretation than that the First Amendment was intended to restrict only the Federal government, and the other amendments were intended to restrict the states as well. Would you expect us to believe that the First Amendment was meant to allow the President to establish a national church?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 25, 2017 1:27 AM  

453. The Shadowed Knight
He bought time for ((( coin clippers ))), Pedro and Juanita , Tyesha and her 8 hood rats, and Achmed ,who has a lifetime subscription to Playgoat . Also for his fellow lawyers So we can have Julie and Joanie get married and little Billie can be a shim. It's the American Way,dammit !

Anonymous Raker Tooth June 25, 2017 1:34 AM  

@43 Names, yes, but other terms, not so much. People will have to stick with 'Red Pill', as a recovering cuck shouldn't go into recuckery.
@84 Take away the Hollywood and Hapmton walls, and see how fast they want the southern wall.
@VD Killer blog; and, glad to see you're not committed to borders as they are, the pragmatic part of me disagrees with people who criticize Californians who talk of secession. I say yes, and please keep your sanctuary cities too, so we have a place to send progressives and criminals. There's a need to revive those billboards hailing the benefits of Sunny California. If we are headed toward civil war, that would be a merciful arrangement.Which leads to:
@166 I know California agriculture is diverse, and huge, I lived there. But maybe the predicted saline trouble they're talking about in the flooded rice fields is a harbinger of an entire state that is dependent on irrigation?
@159, 178 That applies to isolated farmers, but the Russians have a history of allowing armies to penetrate. Indeed, one might think that the residents of Eastern Ukraine took a page from Russian tactics in the recent conflicts there. I think there has been more than one encirclement there; they call them cauldrons.
@192 (?) not sure this is related, but the Continental soldiers found the captured Hessians to be a curious lot in that they didn't grasp the independence from government concept that was being fought for. They were regarded as nice enough fellows, but badly in need of enlightenment. (Red Pill goes WAYYY back)
@194 They will NEVER consider a point of enough immigration, as the goal is destruction.
@193Tom, you really know how to present your case. However, and this is to everyone, something I'm negligent about if I don't make this case over and over again, here, Gab, everywhere:
People must be careful about thinking in horizontal terms, while omitting the vertical consideration. Years ago, this blog had LENGTHY, and I mean lengthy debates a between creationists and atheists. I don't wish to revive that, but I must say that I was raised in the indoctrination machine, until I was challenged with the idea of design and creation. It was my Red Pill turning point. (I've asked at Gab, to no avail, I sure wish someone would have a page or thread about peoples' testimonies regarding their red Pill experience) At this point, I hold to a theory that Christ is not the God of the Deists, He does work in and on behalf of nations. That we offended Him in the early 1960's, the country went freefall, and that our adversary is too clever for us to outmaneuver without Christ's help. The left has the delusion that there can be accomplishment in equality, that there can be peace in diversity; but does the alt right have the delusion that we can have Christianity without Christ? That is, as a quasi-political system? Granted, it wouldn't be at a national level only, in fact, the more Christian individual responsibility, the less need for state. I saw the economic discussion, and wondered if there was an analogy about drops and oceans, but I'll contemplate that later. For now, please remember His words:
"Without Me, you can do nothing".

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 25, 2017 1:42 AM  

455. Student in Blue
You are just seeing the brilliance that some of us have known about Katfish for a long time. And he is a Katfish : all mouth and fulla crap.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 25, 2017 2:04 AM  

Kratman should win an Oscar for Best Boomer Cliche.

Anonymous zebedee June 25, 2017 2:12 AM  

Over half the framers of the Constitution were lawyers...

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 25, 2017 2:45 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 25, 2017 3:27 AM  

I didn't expect to read to the end of the comments but it was too amusing watching this guy humiliate himself. Boomer, liberal interventionist, civic nationalist. Gross. It was like reading the NRO if written by someone with Tourette's and no self-respect.

Blogger John Wright June 25, 2017 5:32 AM  

"Posterity is not an idea. Posterity is not geography. Posterity is not paperwork. Posterity is descendance and DNA"

Your statement is not false, but it is not the whole truth. If Posterity were descendance and DNA and nothing more, the Alt Right would not object to their grandchildren living in America speaking Arabic rather than English, and worshipping Allah rather than Christ.

The Alt Right does and should object to Political Correctness and SJW because even though they are Whites with DNA going back to the Mayflower, they are attempting to destroy the ideas of America no less than the Mohammedans. Your grandchildren living in America speaking Newspeak rather than English and worshipping Obama rather than Christ are idolaters and foreigners in every way but literal. If the homegrown SWJs displace us, they do the same hurt as foreign migrants.

If you cannot raise your children in your way of life, they do not inherit your legacy.

Blogger VD June 25, 2017 6:02 AM  

If the Founders had wanted to write "descendants", they would have written exactly that.

If they had, then we'd have seen the same result and you'd be arguing that if they meant GENETIC descendants, they should have written "posterity". The dishonest always redefine the clear meaning of terms.

Your statement is not false, but it is not the whole truth. If Posterity were descendance and DNA and nothing more, the Alt Right would not object to their grandchildren living in America speaking Arabic rather than English, and worshipping Allah rather than Christ.

Agreed. I could have added "and language and cultural tradition." Possibly even more.

Anonymous Bobby Farr June 25, 2017 6:43 AM  

JQ Adams writing to his father in 1811: “The whole continent of North America appears to be destined by Divine Providence to be people by one nation, speaking one language, professing one general system of religious and political principles, and accustomed to one general tenor of social usages and customs”

I think there are earlier quotes from John Adams stating that he envisioned all of the Western Hemisphere eventually being populated by Americans.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 6:58 AM  

@455

You have no idea how relieved I am at that. Having the respect of contemptible, worthless little shits, is nothing to be celebrated. Losing it, however, is.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 7:01 AM  

Once again, Remus, you really need to stop using the name of a real man. Not only is it insulting to his memory, but it doesn't change you to anything; you remain the idiotic, cowardly bumpkin you are.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 7:04 AM  

Vox:

No we wouldn't because we understand that there is a difference between descendants and posterity, that the one is only genetic or, with adoption, legal serving in place of genetic, while the other has the three meanings I have already given.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 25, 2017 7:21 AM  

Kratman. Of those three definitions, which one is OBVIOUSLY the one they most likely intended? This isn't hard.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 25, 2017 7:24 AM  

People don't talk about nebulous groups of people who just happen to exist in a place after they do. They talk about their actual, direct, physical, genetic descendants when laying out that type of plan for the future.

To be perfectly blunt, on some level people just don't care about others' descendants. Not in anything like the same way. It's blood or bust.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 7:30 AM  

@470

Given the plain words allowing folk who were not born citizens to hold the highest elective offices in the land, Benjamin, it is very unlikely that the one was the most restrictive one, genetic descendants only. You didn't miss that part, did you? Perhaps you tell me; how do we reconcile "genetic descendants only" with Article 1, Section 2, Clause 2, and Article 1, Section 3, Clause 3? Was there, perhaps, a pool of genetic descendants overseas somewhere who needed naturalization? News to me, if so.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 7:40 AM  

@456

Frankly, you are the first person I've heard / read who ever articulated that the lack of mention of congress in the subsequent 9 amendments means they were intended to apply to the states. I think it's nonsense; the whole tenor of the thing, and the reason for having it, was to restrict it to the feds, but it's at least unique nonsense. Case law, too, would appear to be silent on any such notion. Moreover the history, beginning with Madison's attempt to get nine of them incorporated into the body of Article One, suggests rather strongly that it was a federal matter, only. Then, too, it was pushed by anti-federalists in the states to apply to the fed.

Still, as I said, unique and interesting.

Blogger Stilicho June 25, 2017 7:46 AM  

@Tom Kratman: did the posterity referred to in th preamble include the 3/5ths of a person slaves?

If posterity includes something beyond genetic descent, then that something has to be the cultural and religious posterity that JC Wright refers to above. Otherwise, posterity becomes diluted to virtual meaningless babble.

We have a bit of a mess in America today, far worse than the mess that led to an immigration moratorium in the 1920s. and make no mistake, the solution to the earlier mess was twofold: the moratorium and a world war whereby civic virtue, service, and shared sacrifice let us claim and share a common nationality. While I am fine with a similar moratorium today, I would prefer to avoid another world war, so to have any chance of success, the moratorium has to include deportations and likely some level of violence to destroy the left (i.e. The executions you speak of). In other words, war is inevitable and I would prefer a little civil war to the full blown civil war (Spain, etc.) or another world war. But without some crucible, balkanization along ethnic lines is inevitable.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 25, 2017 8:14 AM  

@472. Kratman, let's think about this for a second. You can both make plans specifically FOR your posterity AND make plans for people who aren't. You can make plans for potential immigrants AND clearly state that what you are doing is for the benefit of yourselves and your posterity.

You may make plans for immigrants, but that IS NOT the core focus of what you're doing. Your direct descendants, your posterity are, and no matter what words you use to express that elemental concept, if you don't go into excruciating detail (really, probably even if you do) apparently someone is going to try to twist and re-define your words at a later date.

If I open a shop, I can open a shop that has the potential (and even some amenities) to serve people who aren't myself and my descendants. I'm still running the shop in order to provide for myself and my children, full stop. Outsiders happen, I realize that. Maybe I don't realize how big of an issue overlarge quantities of outsiders are, but if I don't at least to a lesser extent, how exactly did the sign on the front door that says "no shoes, no shirts, no service" get there? Immigration was not at all simple and easy to start out with, and even then you should realize that the only people with both the opportunity and the motivation to come into my shop would be quality people. I mean, it's the best of its kind. We may not outright state that we don't serve X or X on a sign outside the door, and yet if the local mob (or anyone related closely enough to them) shows up with baseball bats demanding protection money, we greet them with shotguns.

Obviously the above is an analogy. Clearly and obviously you can make some provisions for outsiders without that being your core goal or motivation. It doesn't even have to be remotely like your primary focus.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 25, 2017 8:17 AM  

@472. In addition, Kratman, you're not being perfectly honest. People who were not born citizens CANNOT, in reality, hold the highest elected office in the country (at least, not legally).

If this is you argument, you just shot yourself in the foot, repeatedly, because that's not the first time (not even close to) in this thread that you've made that patently false assertion.

Blogger VD June 25, 2017 8:20 AM  

Clearly and obviously you can make some provisions for outsiders without that being your core goal or motivation. It doesn't even have to be remotely like your primary focus.

That is my point. I further note that "natural born citizen" has been similarly perverted in much the same way that "posterity" was. Now it might as well mean that the individual wasn't constructed by scientists in a petri dish.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 25, 2017 8:31 AM  

And posession of the land is conditional ... Israel must follow THE LAW.
Their Elders opted to have a king. Where and who is Istael's king?
Read the whole of the Old Testament.
Is today's Israel true Istael? Or is it an idol leading many away from the true Church?

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 8:50 AM  

Benjamin, if you're making plans for immigrants then you are including as posterity, for whom you intend to secure the blessing of liberty, something besides genetic descendants. And I believe I said earlier, "every office but one." My bad for leaving it out this time.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 8:53 AM  

Stil, I am pretty sure it did not include them, as they were property rather than "people." It _may_ have included free blacks, in the limited cases where they were accorded the right to vote, as they were much more "people" and not at all property.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2017 9:02 AM  

Kratbeacon:...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward ...coward...
Tommy: Wholly inadequate assertion of superiorty, Kratman! The Kratbeacon is virtue signalling, but it's having no effect!
Kratman: Turn up the volume, chum! Maybe if I add more generic personal isults from my Krat Utility Belt.
Kratbeacon:coward ...mom's basement ...masturbation ...coward ...ugly fat skank girlfriend ...coward ...Nazi ...coward... coward ...anime
Tommy:It's still not working Kratman! It's like our opponents have heard the same lame, inapposite insults so many times that they just laugh them off! It's like they don't care!
Kratman:That's okay Tommy. It makes me feel better about my weak and sometimes spurious argument to hear it.
Tommy:Gosh, I'm 100% with you there, Kratman!

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 25, 2017 9:03 AM  

if you're making plans for immigrants then you are including as posterity, for whom you intend to secure the blessing of liberty, something besides genetic descendants.

No. You are not. You are thinking of your posterity by tangentially including the possibility of ancillary accommodation of future outsiders.

Just because you can squint and retroactively discuss a past period's future as a generic posterity does not mean you can also ascribe an unlikely definition to a document.

Never go full attorney.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 25, 2017 9:09 AM  

A revived Roman Empire!

Blogger Student in Blue June 25, 2017 9:25 AM  

@467. Tom Kratman
You have no idea how relieved I am at that. Having the respect of contemptible, worthless little shits, is nothing to be celebrated. Losing it, however, is.

The only evidence you have of me being a contemptible, worthless little shit is that I don't have respect for you anymore.

Thus, anyone who doesn't respect you is disrespectable.

And that absurd leap of rationalizing emotional kneejerk is precisely why I had lost all my respect for you. I had thought you were better than that.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 9:26 AM  

Speaking of idiocy, good morning, Snidely.

@482 I think that's just horse manure but to continue to try to talk someone out of it, when they're so desperate to believe it, would make me even dumber than they are. And I have other business, today. If you are not pure descent from people present here in 1776, you need to follow Vox's lead and _leave_. It's the only principled thing for you to do.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 9:30 AM  

Don't take yourself so seriously, shit for brains. You meant nothing to me before, and you are nothing but a convenient target now.

By the way, interesting little take on the trophies for participation generations, of which you seem to be a member. DMV actually launched three insults my way before I hit back once. But, poor baby, he's the offended party. It's hilarious. It's also contemptible. My generation were swine. Your's are just turds.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2017 9:36 AM  

Speaking of weak and sometimes spurious arguments, hello Tom.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 25, 2017 9:36 AM  

@479. There's where you're going off the rails, Kratman. I'll put the important words in bold again, okay?

It was not primarily for immigrants.

It was not primarily for immigrants.

Both emphasese are true.

The second one is the more definitive and meaningful one. The first one is (perhaps)more technically accurate but it still contradicts your argument.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 25, 2017 9:43 AM  

Immigrants are not, and cannot be posterity of non-immigrants, full stop. Possibly THEIR posterity and YOUR posterity can be the same. This is your current situation.

I don't care about the possible definitions.

I care about the likely definition.

I care about the reasonable definition.

I care about the blindingly obvious definition.

All the lies, evasions, and post facto rationalizations can and will rot in hell for all eternity... exactly where they belong. Only the truth matters. Reality justifies. Justifications do not mandate reality.

If you're part of the founders' posterity (genetic) then your posterity are also included.

Blogger VD June 25, 2017 11:23 AM  

Benjamin, if you're making plans for immigrants then you are including as posterity, for whom you intend to secure the blessing of liberty, something besides genetic descendants.

That's an incorrect assumption. Immigration law is not the Constitution. It's not necessarily intended for the same purposes. The annual budget is not intended to protect the Blessings of Liberty for one's children and grandchildren either.

And, of course, if making plans for immigrants benefits your genetic descendants, that may or may not be worth doing, but no matter what plans you make for immigrants, that does not make them posterity any more than it makes them giraffes.

I've posted a more complete response up that will appear in a few hours. I believe it to be conclusive, but we'll see if you can punch any holes in it.

Blogger Sheila4g June 25, 2017 12:00 PM  

I really hesitate to comment here, particularly at the end of such a long and virulent thread, but I feel compelled to add my two cents, so hope the ilk and other regulars tolerate this. I, too, have lost respect for Tom Kratman for all the reasons others have stated. To personalize it {sorry, I am a female, and am relating this to what I personally know}: My late father in law was, like Kratman, a Colonel. He earned his Ranger tab. And his jump wings. And various other honors and awards. And served in combat. And he was the most incredibly humble individual you could meet. Courteous, soft spoken. The grandchild of a mixed group of immigrants whose home countries and heritage he only obliquely acknowledged if at all, and devoted only to America. He would never make any issue all about MEEEE. And never, ever, would he have used his military service as a club to bludgeon those who legitimately disagreed with him.

Blogger dienw June 25, 2017 12:40 PM  

How to know if you're one of the founder's posterity? Are you on a list to access an undergroun nuclear shelter?

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 25, 2017 1:43 PM  

Look, there is a certain amount of generation gap in play here. I'm Gen X , Kratman a late boomer and I'm sure others here are X and Y . I get it.

Its going to create friction but instead of slinging insults and posturing aim your rhetorical guns LEFT not at people who are allies.

TL:DR

Tom is an ally and good people, aim left jackass not at allies.

Anonymous God Hates Cucks June 25, 2017 2:06 PM  

The idea that America is a country based on an idea, and citizenship determined by weather one believes in that idea, is not true in any meaningful, practical sense.

1. What, precisely, is that idea, and who gets to determine what it is? Is it strictly what the founders envisioned, or is it a 'living idea' that can change with time? Are conservatives right when they say Obama is a traitor, or are liberals right when they say Trump is a traitor? The current state of American politics suggest we don't even have a coherent view of that the supposed idea is, much less a common consensus.

2. Suppose we did have a clear consensus on what the idea that America is. Would we take away the citizenship of a native born in the U.S. who did not agree to that idea? Would they lose their right to vote? Would they be deported? For example, what we see a lot with muslim immigrants is that the first generation might agree with the 'idea', but the second and third generations do not. This is why most terror attacks are committed by the later generations of the immigrant, who are unable to assimilate. Should we be constantly screening them, and take away their citizenship if they do not conform to the American 'idea'? Remember, if we allow people who disagree with the 'idea' to be citizens, the claim that "America is an idea" is false.

3. If America is an idea, than 90% of post 1965 immigrants cannot be considered citizens eligible for voting because the prime motivation for immigration is economic, with little regard or knowledge for the political 'ideas' that made the economy that way. Though they may enjoy the benefits of a free market, Hispanic voting trends suggest they do not understand how it works. Rather, their voting trends resemble the socialist big government ideas from whence they came. Should they lose citizenship?

A proposition U.S. versus a historic ethnic and cultural English U.S. actually ends up being more closely related than most melting potheads realize. If the U.S. is defined as an 'idea', that idea would most likely be based on the English enlightenment philosophy of limited government described by the founders - ideas which are mostly non-existent amongst Hispanics, blacks, and muslims, so the majority would be ineligible for citizenship.

Interestingly enough, said proposition U.S. -if honestly followed- ends up being even more exclusive than the western European ethnostate of the white nationalists, because the waves of German and Scandinavian immigrants who vote along the lines of big government socialism would be excluded for citizenship as well, as their ideology resembles German and Scandinavian politics, rather than Proposition U.S. small government.

The idea notion that all humans are interchangeable blank slates and should live together in a mixed population bound solely by some nebulous idea is like communism in the sense that it requires humans to behave in idealistic ways that do not resemble human nature. In fact, soviet communism is preferable to the current political idea of the "proposition nation" because while the former results in mere poverty and economic collapse, the later has a track record of civil war and genocide.

Blogger roughcoat June 25, 2017 2:29 PM  

@493

"Tom is an ally and good people"

Kratman implicitly stated he doesn't want people like me as allies, cuz we're just cowardly scummy nazis or something like that. So, fuck him.

And why exactly are you scolding us? We didn't make him act that way. Maybe you'd have a point if he was just a clueless boomer who wandered in to argue in good faith, but that's obviously not what happened.

More generally, what exactly does it mean to "aim left"? I'm not sure I understand the way people use that term because it often seems prima facie misapplied. Left of what? Left of me, or left of some arbitrary, ill-defined center? Because if I were to attack Kratman--which I have not actually done to any significant degree--I would be aiming left of myself. Clearly.

Blogger Tom Kratman June 25, 2017 2:56 PM  

By the way, Patrick, if you're still following this: Recall that I mentioned how forces in conflict tend to come to resemble each other. Well, you have, in this thread, seen another fine illustration of that with regard to the alt-right and the SJWs. Do but note the alt-right demand for ideological conformity, the piranha-like swarming against contrary positions, and the willful suppression of anything resembling intelligent discussion. Now go pick your SJW board, Vile 770 would perhaps be a good example, though Whatever and Tor are also fine for the purpose. It is exactly the same thing. That the causes are different (if they are, both seem determined on and delighted at the prospect of the death of the United States) makes no difference; they act precisely the same way.

It is not something people ought aspire to.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 25, 2017 3:17 PM  

" Tom is an ally and good people, aim left jackass not at allies. "
Tom's as much an ally as that illegal alien oafcuck that choked that guy at the rally.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 25, 2017 3:19 PM  

" Tom is an ally and good people, aim left jackass not at allies. "
Tom's as much an ally as that illegal alien oafcuck that choked that guy at the rally.

Blogger roughcoat June 25, 2017 3:35 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:By the way, Patrick, if you're still following this: Recall that I mentioned how forces in conflict tend to come to resemble each other. Well, you have, in this thread, seen another fine illustration of that with regard to the alt-right and the SJWs. Do but note the alt-right demand for ideological conformity, the piranha-like swarming against contrary positions, and the willful suppression of anything resembling intelligent discussion. Now go pick your SJW board, Vile 770 would perhaps be a good example, though Whatever and Tor are also fine for the purpose. It is exactly the same thing. That the causes are different (if they are, both seem determined on and delighted at the prospect of the death of the United States) makes no difference; they act precisely the same way.

It is not something people ought aspire to.


> spends all evening slinging nasty insults
> gets savaged
> plays the noble victim from atop his high horse the next day

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 25, 2017 5:06 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:I used to have respect for Col Kratman. That went away pretty quick over the course of this thread.

The only part that matters is the discussion with Vox and the others who have something substantial to contribute. I doubt Kratman's putting any serious effort into any individual comment in the sideshow. That's what happens when it's hundred-to-one; the one tends to adopt the tactic of carpet-bombing all opposition.

Just watch the debate unfold. Even if you have a valid point, if he doesn't know who you are, it's going to get lost among the noise of random people shouting slogans.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 25, 2017 5:21 PM  

That's what happens when it's hundred-to-one; the one tends to adopt the tactic of carpet-bombing all opposition.

That's not it. We've seen the same carpet-bombing before in situations where only one person had offended.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper June 25, 2017 5:41 PM  

jOHN MOSBY wrote:" Tom is an ally and good people, aim left jackass not at allies. "

Tom's as much an ally as that illegal alien oafcuck that choked that guy at the rally.



First I'm not just aiming it at y'all here though I'll admit that it came on like that. Mea Culpa

Also the biggest problem we face is purity spirals , people just outside our movement have been saying this for some time now and I'm coming to agree.

we only have to agree on the very basics, Righter/Whiter/Better and use our energy on people who oppose this not on doctrinal difference

This does mean toning down civic nationalism and making sure the Oathcucks and "Anti Nazis" are dealt with

way I figure it Tom is basically mostly .Alt Right even if he is stuck in the old world of the Boomers at times (sorry Tom but its true)

Close enough is good enough and a man who wants to deport fake Americans in numbers and restore a socially conservative environment with a restricted franchise and execute the worst of the worst is on my side even if we disagree on some particulars

I do agree that the Nazi name calling bullshit is annoying, Nazis suck but we don't care and we'll tolerate them as useful idiots.

Still you have to understand that his generation was subject to Anti Nazi propaganda 24 fucking seven and that its reflex to consider these guys "worse people ever" when they were roughly as sucky as our ally Stalin

Its a generational quirk like the Boomers fondness for American Indians or Gen X cynicism on roids

I will say though that baring a complete implosion the more racialist elements of our movement aren't getting what they want, we aren't deporting every half breed, Jew and Non white out there.

Even once the Boomers are out of the picture, its still not going to happen the will isn't there and a ton of .alt right people are half breeds , mixed whites , have non white spouses and a few aren't even White at all.

Its a political movement somewhat civic nationalist that understands this is a White Christian designed civilization not a racial movement with political aspects

I'm not arguing the value of the goal either, I don't care. Its not going to happen as the number of actual people who want it are tiny

If America is to live we need a Whiter society and a more Christian one.

It does not have to be pure and repatriation of fake Americans combined with natalism while it won't bring back the Founders society , will render something recognizable to them worth living in . Time will heal all wounds

Right now though Tom is not your enemy and frankly he needs to understand, y'all aren't his either. Same team, doctrinal difference

Compromise , live and let live and don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

In other words, the Left and its Cultural Marxist zombie army is the problem not each other

OK? Good

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 25, 2017 6:43 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:That's not it. We've seen the same carpet-bombing before in situations where only one person had offended.

It's going to happen the same way no matter who throws the first blow. If it's hundred to one, the one is likely not going to spend a lot of time rationally discerning each comment. If they're not willing to slog through it all, they're going to carpet-bomb or blanket ignore. Being a military man, he's quite willing to go with the rough-and-tumble option.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 25, 2017 6:53 PM  

If it's hundred to one,

You missed the point. We've seen the same scorched-earth, name-calling bullying when there was only one person drawing the fire.

I'm not saying it's wrong. Vox's blog, that's for him to decide. But it's a mischaracterization to say it's a posture of self-defense against being teamed up on by a crowd. That may not be obvious if you didn't witness the previous occasions.

Blogger Student in Blue June 25, 2017 7:01 PM  

@500. Ezekiel Cassandros
The only part that matters is the discussion with Vox and the others who have something substantial to contribute.

That's the part I've been trying to read, but it's getting buried under pointless crap. And Kratman is a large part of either provoking said pointless crap, or providing it himself.

I don't know the other guys, so I have no expectations of their behavior, but I thought Tom would at least ignore them if he thought they were wasting his time. In retrospect, it's probably that Alpha behavior where they can't ignore personal slights like that.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 25, 2017 7:21 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:I'm not saying it's wrong. Vox's blog, that's for him to decide. But it's a mischaracterization to say it's a posture of self-defense against being teamed up on by a crowd.

Well. Not so much self-defense as starting a scrum on the side for the hell of it.

Student: Can't ignore personal slights, and thinks it's fun to pick fights with people he doesn't know. He came out to attack people and he's honestly having such a good time right now. Annoying to be on the receiving end, because he's good at it, but it's all ad hoc bluster.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY June 25, 2017 9:28 PM  

" Right now though Tom is not your enemy and frankly he needs to understand, y'all aren't his either. Same team, doctrinal difference "
Don't take this personal, AB. Kratman is just a loudmouthed turd to me. I don't need him as an ally, maybe you do.
I'm not about to tell anyone here who to like, trust, listen to or anything else, that's your call.
But for me me, I got as much use for him as a used piece of T.P. My dealings with Tonya go way back further than this here thread,sir.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2017 10:41 PM  

He's the one calli,g everyone who disagrees with him a Nazi, but we're the ones in a purity spiral.

Good to know.

Anonymous readthedailystormerdotcom June 26, 2017 2:24 AM  

"Probably the most evil leftism since it caused the Holocaust."

Citation needed.

Anonymous SigOther June 26, 2017 11:30 AM  

As long as they are irrationally reacting to FakeNews, someone should tell the Oath Keepers that their guns and ballistic vests are patriarchal tools of Nazi oppression. Then they might recoil in horror and give their toys to someone more suited (ie with a spine) to use them.

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