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Sunday, July 09, 2017

Christian civic nationalism

Would that the Christian churches had embraced this civic nationalist position rather than the cucked, anti-Biblical, globalist false Samaritanism that is their current creed. John C. Wright applies the Thomistic position to the immigration question:
No nation is required by God’s law to allow citizenship to any strangers not yet having the common good firmly at heart.

If divine law allows Mosiac law to forbid Ammonites and Moabite and other known enemies from being welcomed into fellowship, that is, citizenship, likewise the laws of a Christian nation can forbid Mohammedans from dwelling among them.

If divine law allowed Mosiac law to forbid friendly foreigners from being welcomed before the third generation, likewise the laws of a Christian nation can forbid the Christians who speak of different tongue, Mexicans and the like, from being granting the franchise to vote until their grandchildren have been born and raised here. Since this is roughly the amount of time it takes a group eager to acclimate and amalgamate into our customs and language to leave behind their Chinatowns and Little Italies and become true Americans, I see no evil in following the Thomist wisdom in that matter.

However, no matter how many generations pass, sad history has shown that children of Mohammedans born and raised in Western nations are too often still loyal to Sharia Law, to the brutal and vulgar practices of this alien and satanic religion, and too often are easily led to commit atrocities no votaries of civilized religions are wont to do.

The loyalty and the degree of Westernization by the first generation of Mohammedan immigrants has been proved by the harsh lesson of history to be immaterial.

Even if the grandfather is willing to be a citizen of a Western republic, or a subject of a Christian king, his grandchildren, upon reading the Alcoran and hearing the voice crying from the minaret, are subject to a strong temptation to forswear their civilian loyalties which, as history testifies, are simply not present in other faiths. It would be imprudent to assume that this temptation, which has operated often enough in times past to be noticeable, will sullenly and for no cause no longer influence future generations.
I would say that if three generations are required for citizenship, at least four generations are the bare minimum for political office, as that would have prevented Immanuel Celler, the man who is primarily responsible for the demographic destruction of the United States, from being elected to the House of Representatives and waging his successful 40-year jihad against White Christian America. All four of his grandparents were immigrants, thereby demonstrating the wisdom of permitting third-generation immigrants to set immigration policy.

Sadly, this sensible policy is no longer an option. The barn door cannot be barred after the horses escape. Which, of course, is why the civic nationalists, Christian or otherwise, are no longer relevant and the Alt-Right is inevitable. The fact is that the civic nationalists have never been willing to fight to defend or enforce their Proposition, but the Alt-Right is more than willing to fight to defend our various nations.

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106 Comments:

Anonymous Icicle July 09, 2017 11:06 AM  

would have prevented Immanuel Celler

(((Emanuel Celler)))

Blogger Dexter July 09, 2017 11:12 AM  

When the first name is Immanuel, the parentheses are redundant.

Anonymous Beresford July 09, 2017 11:14 AM  

No matter how much John dresses it up, nurture does not overcome nature. Immigrants can never fully assimilate, no matter how many generations pass. Blood always wins out.

Blogger ZhukovG July 09, 2017 11:17 AM  

I can see an International Sunni Caliphate being quite attractive to Globalists. Historically, for the elite, public appearance of devotion was sufficient, while privately they indulged all manner of perversity.

Anonymous MIG July 09, 2017 11:27 AM  

@2

As in "Kant."

Blogger Elocutioner July 09, 2017 11:32 AM  

Since the 19th won't be repealed we really should use it to our advantage to fix things sooner and cleaner.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 09, 2017 11:36 AM  

I would say that if three generations are required for citizenship, at least four generations are the bare minimum for political office

I'd say eleven.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 09, 2017 11:37 AM  

Because it's more than ten, is why. Families need to prove they aren't susceptible to the madness of the tenth generation.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 09, 2017 11:39 AM  

Actually, make that twelve. It takes at least a generation for a generation to ruin itself.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) July 09, 2017 11:42 AM  

I don't think the American church, particularly the evangelicals, is as cucked as some on this blog think.

White Christians express substantially more ambivalence about immigrants. Fewer than half of Mormons (45%), white Catholics (44%), and white mainline Protestants (41%) believe immigrants strengthen the country. Roughly four in ten Mormons (38%), white Catholics (41%), and white mainline Protestants (43%) say that immigrants present a threat to American culture. White evangelical Protestants stand out as the only religious community in which a majority (53%) believe that immigrants threaten traditional American customs and values. Only about one-third (32%) of white evangelical Protestants believe newcomers from other countries benefit the U.S.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 09, 2017 11:47 AM  

I don't think the American church, particularly the evangelicals, is as cucked as some on this blog think.

I don't think the people in the pews are, but they've followed the lead of their pastors and what the crowd was saying, at least in public to get along. But when their pastors and other leaders stop cucking (or are replaced), they'll be relieved and ready to respond.

Blogger Ransom Smith July 09, 2017 11:50 AM  

@Aeoli

On all sides? I'm ruled out then if it's ten generations on all sides.

I think there's other metrics besides just generations that matter. Some jews have been here for five or six generations, and can't be trusted still.

Just make it Christians only. No jews, hindus, muslims, etc.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 11:53 AM  

Personally I want to find out whether the civnat death rattle sounds like

"tooooooooone"

Blogger Elizabeth July 09, 2017 11:57 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:I can see an International Sunni Caliphate being quite attractive to Globalists. Historically, for the elite, public appearance of devotion was sufficient, while privately they indulged all manner of perversity.

That's a characteristic of Islamic society in general - personal belief is less important than going through the motions. The countries are hideously corrupt and the population is general is low IQ and they're obsessed with woman covering their heads with a bag.

Blogger ZhukovG July 09, 2017 11:58 AM  

@Josh: I agree. The cucked just have the biggest mouths and are frequently in positions of leadership. Pope Francis, the Flower Child, being one of the most obvious.

Blogger Bodo Staron July 09, 2017 12:03 PM  

Three generations? Depends. Even the great Aristotle was wrong if you look at the example of Germany and Austria. The third generation Turks are often worse integrated than their parents and grandparents.

Most of them have to go back.

Blogger Elizabeth July 09, 2017 12:04 PM  

Josh (the gayest thing here) wrote:I don't think the American church, particularly the evangelicals, is as cucked as some on this blog think.

White Christians express substantially more ambivalence about immigrants. Fewer than half of Mormons (45%), white Catholics (44%), and white mainline Protestants (41%) believe immigrants strengthen the country. Roughly four in ten Mormons (38%), white Catholics (41%), and white mainline Protestants (43%) say that immigrants present a threat to American culture. White evangelical Protestants stand out as the only religious community in which a majority (53%) believe that immigrants threaten traditional American customs and values. Only about one-third (32%) of white evangelical Protestants believe newcomers from other countries benefit the U.S.


Liberals have been saying for I don't know how long that "prejudice is ignorance," but it's been my observation that at least 50% of the time "familiarity breeds contempt." Live or work in close proximity with the vibrants is to have your eyes opened. One of the reasons for anti-discrimination laws is the idea that they are unjustified. Discrimination is frequently justified. A cab driver is justified is preferring to pick up a white woman passenger over a black male.


Anonymous Looking Glass July 09, 2017 12:04 PM  

It's bad in pretty much all denominations. Mostly because post-Industrial Revolution Christianity is formed much more like a corporation. The entire structure simply doesn't work, so all of the energy is put into making it work. Lots of "good" faith paid to proper up a failed system.

The Fire cometh and burns away the debris.

Blogger Elizabeth July 09, 2017 12:05 PM  

Bodo Staron wrote:Three generations? Depends. Even the great Aristotle was wrong if you look at the example of Germany and Austria. The third generation Turks are often worse integrated than their parents and grandparents.

Most of them have to go back.


In Britain, at least, the children of Pakistani immigrants are more likely to be radicalized than their parents.

Blogger praetorian July 09, 2017 12:06 PM  

No matter how much John dresses it up, nurture does not overcome nature. Immigrants can never fully assimilate, no matter how many generations pass. Blood always wins out.

You can tell that's true by how the British still enjoy bear baiting, and the Poles settle arguments with fox tossing.

Nature autistes > nurture autistes. But it's still autism.

Anonymous Grayman July 09, 2017 12:07 PM  

@7 ErEr

America's continued racist remnants with a future that recognizes a diverse country devoted to equal opportunity collective responsibility.

LOL!!! You envision a failed state. The only thing that allows even the semblance of functioning "diverse" society is massive payoffs through welfare and debt expansion.

You'll need a lot of chalk for that blank slate!

Blogger James July 09, 2017 12:08 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Because it's more than ten, is why. Families need to prove they aren't susceptible to the madness of the tenth generation.

It is interesting you choose this number. Deuteronomy 23:2-3 says

"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever"

So, if a White breeds with a non-White, his offspring are a "bastard" (mamzer). According to the above verse, this offspring's descendants shall not enter into the "congregation of the Lord" (the ruling body of citizenry) even after ten more generations of breeding with other Whites. For Ammonites and Moabites, the prohibition is given the added comment "for ever". This does not mean that mixed breeds and foreigners may not "reside" with the host population, it just means they have chosen to do so and must accept whatever restrictions are imposed.

I don't know what is significant about this 11th generation thing. It obviously doesn't mean forever because the "for ever" was added to the next verse. Anyone have any opinions? One drop rule or genetically pure after 11 generations of breeding back into the line? Any animal breeders out there?

Blogger Dave July 09, 2017 12:10 PM  

I would say that if three generations are required for citizenship, at least four generations are the bare minimum for political office

They also have to earn it. Must be a net positive contributor to society and even then it should only be if passed by community referendum.

Blogger VFM #7634 July 09, 2017 12:11 PM  

Three generations? Depends. Even the great Aristotle was wrong if you look at the example of Germany and Austria. The third generation Turks are often worse integrated than their parents and grandparents.

@16 Bodo Staron
They're already covered under Wright's proposed banning of giving Mohammedans citizenship in Christian countries.

Sub-Saharan Africans should be forever ineligible too, even though they've been here for many generations. Experience has demonstrated conclusively that they are too alien (not to mention irresponsible and amoral-racialist, i.e., their version of amoral-familist) to qualify for citizenship.

Anonymous Goy July 09, 2017 12:12 PM  

We need a rerun of the disputation of Paris. And Thomism is a good start.

Blogger wreckage July 09, 2017 12:16 PM  

One reason the alt-right is inevitable is because the people the civic nationalists voted for, time and time again, cucked them bleeding on the issue of immigration.

People will keep moving Right until they get their basic rights back. One of those is the collective right to the land they occupy. If the center won't do it they'll go alt-right, and if the alt-right fails they'll go alt-retard.

Blogger pyrrhus July 09, 2017 12:20 PM  

Truly, civic nationalism was the road on which the USA began, and probably would have worked. But capitalists and their banker friends quickly diverted immigration onto the cheap labor path, which was the plan all along, so now civic nationalism is a dead letter, and we are pawns of history.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 09, 2017 12:22 PM  

Blacks and Jews have been in America for how many generations?

Hasn't worked.

Europeans can over time get along with each other to some degree when taken from their native culture.

Others not so much.

Blogger pyrrhus July 09, 2017 12:27 PM  

@24 The "blank slate" hoax is promoted by (((academia))) precisely because it enables the destruction of white civilization...All research demonstrates that every human behavior and tendency is at least 50% heritable, so there is no assimilation.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 12:36 PM  

> Blacks, Jews, Whites, Slavs, Asians have thoroughly integrated into the American culture.

I think you'll find if you walk through Seattle SEAtac Airport and then Seoul Airport that the word you're looking for is "disintegrated".

That's ok though. We'll happily slaughter all the mud and tranny troops you've got to get to you kinky-haired wormtongues cowering in your TV antenna towers preaching the gospel of global fiat bondage.

What a crusade! What a time to be alive!

Thanks for keeping the motivation high.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 09, 2017 12:38 PM  

Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It’s Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself. Other races feel like subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and slavery have disappeared. The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don’t grasp what it really means: humiliation. The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn’t conscious of it. And, superiority excites envy. Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call minorities.

Joseph Sobran

Blogger wreckage July 09, 2017 12:38 PM  

The disparate ethnic elements of the USA could, and perhaps might, figure out their own path were it not for the mass migration of the last couple of decades. Many peoples have survived one or two stable minority populations within their territory. None have ever, historically, pointed the gun of mass migration at their own head and willingly pulled the trigger.

Blogger S1AL July 09, 2017 12:43 PM  

"I don't think the people in the pews are, but they've followed the lead of their pastors and what the crowd was saying, at least in public to get along. But when their pastors and other leaders stop cucking (or are replaced), they'll be relieved and ready to respond."

Just one of many reasons I've become more inclined towards the independent Baptist tradition of local church autonomy of late. You can't corrupt from the top down when the top can be removed.

Blogger praetorian July 09, 2017 12:44 PM  

Man, the VD comments section is in top form today.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 09, 2017 1:07 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:
I can see an International Sunni Caliphate being quite attractive to Globalists. Historically, for the elite, public appearance of devotion was sufficient, while privately they indulged all manner of perversity.

Absolutely. Look no further than the House of Saud, or the various oil-rich gulf-states, for examples.

However, no matter how many generations pass, sad history has shown that children of Mohammedans born and raised in Western nations are too often still loyal to Sharia Law, to the brutal and vulgar practices of this alien and satanic religion, and too often are easily led to commit atrocities no votaries of civilized religions are wont to do.

I note with interest that wright omitted the Talmudists, who are the ones who opened the city-gates of Visigothic Spain to the invading Musloids, just as Celler and the vast majority of Talmudists are the ones pushing hardest to enable the Musloid invasion of both America and Europe. The 2000-year hate is even more ingrained, possibly congenital by now, than jihad is with the Musloids.

At the end of the day Wright and his fellow civic nationalists are ghost-dancing - much as the Odinists and other pagans are. The Fake Banana Empire (1965-present) is not the United States, nor were its predecessors the Real-Banana Empire (1913-63), or the American Empire (1865-1913).

Blogger Gary Eden July 09, 2017 1:29 PM  

@33 S1Al Yes you can. Local 'autonomous' churches are usually one man fiefdoms; even if there is a board of elders or deacons that supposedly governs.

And most such churches are closely tied together in fellowships via colleges, seminaries, magazines, conferences or parachurch ministries.

Blogger Gary Eden July 09, 2017 1:33 PM  

If the people in the pew's arn't as cucked, why do they put up with cucked leadership?

Because while they may be woke in some matters, they're all cucked on the one thing that really matters: feminism. And so the women run everything behind the scenes.

With very very few exceptions anti-Christ feminism has subsumed Christianity.

Think yours is the exception? Maybe, but only if your women cover their heads in prayer.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 1:36 PM  

> Think yours is the exception? Maybe, but only if your women cover their heads in prayer.

Exactly.

Anonymous ANZAC July 09, 2017 1:40 PM  

>>>I note with interest that wright omitted the Talmudists, who are the ones who opened the city-gates of Visigothic Spain to the invading Musloids

I believe Wright's wife is a (((Chosen Person))) by blood.

Every. Single. Time.

Anonymous Berg July 09, 2017 1:44 PM  

"That's ok though. We'll happily slaughter all the mud and tranny troops you've got to get to you kinky-haired wormtongues cowering in your TV antenna towers preaching the gospel of global fiat bondage."

When is this carnage donna start? Right after you are done commenting on the Internet? LOL

Every time your type has tried to go after different colored people you lost. Every single time. I rather doubt you have it in you for another go at it. But you keep firing away on the Internet.

Anonymous Ted Yentz July 09, 2017 1:49 PM  

And so it begins

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/09/politics/trump-russia-meeting-campaign/index.html?sr=twCNN070917trump-russia-meeting-campaign1149AMStory

There is now PROOF that Trump and Russia colluded to steal the election. Its time for war.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) July 09, 2017 1:53 PM  

Think yours is the exception? Maybe, but only if your women cover their heads in prayer.

Do you regularly attend church?

Blogger James Dixon July 09, 2017 1:55 PM  

> I believe Wright's wife is a (((Chosen Person))) by blood.

Perhaps. I'd have to check. But my understanding is that she's also a faithful Christian Scientist.

Blogger S1AL July 09, 2017 2:00 PM  

"Yes you can. Local 'autonomous' churches are usually one man fiefdoms; even if there is a board of elders or deacons that supposedly governs."

Thus demonstrating that you know nothing about how autonomous churches operate.

"And most such churches are closely tied together in fellowships via colleges, seminaries, magazines, conferences or parachurch ministries."

See above. There's not even that level of uniformity among SBC churches, much less the dozens of conventions with less formal membership.

"With very very few exceptions anti-Christ feminism has subsumed Christianity."

I see this line repeated a lot... by people who haven't been in a church in over a decade. When did you last attend a church regularly?

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 2:01 PM  

> I believe Wright's wife is a (((Chosen Person))) by blood.

Communism and Catholicism are undergoing a merger anyhow. Can't have a one world religion with all this divisiveness. Guys like Gandalf destroy bridges. That's not who we are. Who we are is American. Human. Mammalian, except Hillary. Vertebrate, except Paul Ryan.

America must learn to embrace her estranged black son, like Bill Clinton didn't. We are all one big family, like coyotes and chihuahuas, dingoes and great danes, sheepdogs and wolves. Wag your tail into mutt utopia, or Mr. Dogcatcher will put you down at the federal pound. What a hero! He protects and serves.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 2:04 PM  

> Every time your type has tried to go after different colored people you lost. Every single time. I rather doubt you have it in you for another go at it. But you keep firing away on the Internet.

You're asking this on the blog of a Native American.

Just like last time, propaganda precedes and powers extermination. It takes a lot of talk to get the Saxon moving.

Is it glorious? No! Glory is the warrior's. Thanks for pointing that out. In case anyone wanted to get some glory, that's how.

Blogger Ransom Smith July 09, 2017 2:05 PM  

Mammalian, except Hillary. Vertebrate, except Paul Ryan.


Kek

Anonymous Icicle July 09, 2017 2:27 PM  

Remember when they were calling the Tea Party teabaggers?

Now they have Trump.

They really f*cked that one up.

Anonymous Eduardo July 09, 2017 2:32 PM  

But the tea party is teabagging them.... So they were correct after all.

Anonymous Icicle July 09, 2017 2:39 PM  

tea party is teabagging them

The Tea Party was gay?

Anonymous Sharrukin July 09, 2017 2:39 PM  

41. Ted Yentz

There is now PROOF that Trump and Russia colluded to steal the election. Its time for war.

A meeting about adoptions is proof?

Why was the Russian lawyer who was denied a visa given special permission to enter by the Obama folks?

Why did a Democratic group Fusion GPS arrange the meeting as they were the ones who were behind the fake dossier targeting Trump?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/09/trump-team-met-with-kremlin-connected-lawyer-during-campaign/

Veselnitskaya is associated with Fusion GPS, the opposition research firm behind an anti-Trump dossier compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele. Fusion GPS was paid by a Democratic ally of Hillary Clinton’s to conduct the research.

Sounds like you boys really do want a war given this sort of effort to arrange one, and you just might get one.

Anonymous Icicle July 09, 2017 2:42 PM  

When it begins, be sure to fire on them, not Russia.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 2:45 PM  

The Left is just confused because being a Russian spy due to ideological compatibility is what they would do if they were given the opportunity to imitate their parents.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 09, 2017 2:59 PM  

I have a serious question and I'm not going anywhere with this or drawing any conclusions from it. This is not a set up for followup response. Do you believe that based Christians or cucked Christians are growing at a faster rate at this moment in time? Every week I read stories of Christian organizations cucking as well as stories of Christians successfully rejecting Marxist bullshit. I have not taken the time to define a good way to measure this and find any sort of data. While it is true that leftist churches are losing membership, it is also true that many existing churches are drifting further to the left. Does anyone have any data as to which denominations are gaining or losing members and, if so, what the trends are geographically? It is entirely possible that Christianity is cucking in some geographical areas and uncucking in others. I am not making an assertion either way, just curious if any parties have any data that shows one way or the other.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) July 09, 2017 3:03 PM  

Does anyone have any data as to which denominations are gaining or losing members and, if so, what the trends are geographically?

This doesn't cover geography, but it's the most comprehensive data I've seen:

https://medium.com/migration-issues/the-beginning-for-the-american-church-6bb5654a91fc

Blogger Matthew Funk July 09, 2017 3:17 PM  

Thanks, that's a good start. I was unaware that there was such a thing as a non-Trinitarian Christian.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass July 09, 2017 3:24 PM  

It's the reason I voted for Trump in the primary and general; he was the only one serious about immigration.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 09, 2017 4:01 PM  

@Matthew Funk
I am curious why a self-described Odinist cares.

Anyway, I would say rather that more and more cucks within churches, and indeed any organization, are having to reveal themselves. Before Trump they could pose as True Conservatives(tm). Now is, as Reagan put it in very similar circumstances, "the time for choosing."

Blogger Matamoros July 09, 2017 4:05 PM  

The Stranger

The Stranger within my gate,
He may be true or kind,
But he does not talk my talk--
I cannot feel his mind.
I see the face and the eyes and the mouth,
But not the soul behind.

The men of my own stock,
They may do ill or well,
But they tell the lies I am wanted to,
They are used to the lies I tell;
And we do not need interpreters
When we go to buy or sell.

The Stranger within my gates,
He may be evil or good,
But I cannot tell what powers control--
What reasons sway his mood;
Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
Shall repossess his blood.

The men of my own stock,
Bitter bad they may be,
But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
And see the things I see;
And whatever I think of them and their likes
They think of the likes of me.

This was my father's belief
And this is also mine:
Let the corn be all one sheaf--
And the grapes be all one vine,
Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
By bitter bread and wine.

Rudyard Kipling

Blogger traderdoc July 09, 2017 4:31 PM  

Fake Christians with fake Christianity. Let's see what Paul warns...

2Co 6:14-18 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? (15) Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? (16) Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. (17) "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. (18) "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.

Anonymous Avalanche July 09, 2017 4:38 PM  

@11 "But when their pastors and other leaders stop cucking (or are replaced), they'll be relieved and ready to respond."

Yeah but HOW will they stop cucking or be replaced, if the congregation sits silent? Id allll these folks do not support/approve of immigration, WHY are their churches Churchian, and sending money to provide water in the TX desert to illegals or supporting arrivals who are neither asked for nor wanted?

ARE they all such sheep? (Apparently so.)

Blogger tz July 09, 2017 5:12 PM  

I think the difference and error are more practical.

I can't imagine Mr. Wright having his sons do a proper reconquista, rounding up Islamic refugees or clearing Dearborn Michigan into camps or repatriotation. He might help file a lot of lawsuits saying "you can't build the mosque in my neighborhood", or relocate refugees, etc. but that will take two generations to go through the courts.

The largest difference I see between the civic nationalists is that they are still Jeb!ified. Something must be done soon if not right now, here in meatspace, something physical or at least in whatever forum the problem originates.

Have Civic Nationalists ever hurled even one perfectly legitimate insult much less created one meme against CNN or MSNBC? Or Hillary?

They seem to wish a polite discussion, a bloodless war.

I can remember the original Star Trek where some computer simulated war and people just reported to death chambers, because it was less nasty than a real war. That is war between two civic nationalist planets.

I can barely imagine the memes Mr. Wright could create. His only imperfection is his prose and wrighting in general are not merely a verbal firehose but a water cannon. He could single handedly bring down CNN and the WaPo or NYT.

Anonymous kfg July 09, 2017 5:26 PM  

"Blacks and Jews have been in America for how many generations?"

If you include all the territory that now comprises the United States of America, all of them.

They were here before the English.

But then so were the aboriginal natives.

Anonymous Icicle July 09, 2017 6:04 PM  

Those who have rejected the Logos and Teleology of Western Civilization (not the Islamic or Jewish Logos)...

They should be west-splained to in struggle sessions.

Make Western Civilization great again!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 09, 2017 6:17 PM  

"Struggle sessions" are an Eastern concept.
"Summary execution" is a Western concept.

Blogger tz July 09, 2017 6:25 PM  

To clarify my post of 62, Trump is militant, active, aggressive civic nationalism, which is a rare combination.

Even when civic nationalism isn't half-cucked, they rarely have the verve, fire, or Deus Vult!.

The ethno-nationalists are ready to fight in a way the alt-lite isn't. There's a "unite the right" rally, and there was some other gathering and Cernovich and others like the Oath keepers said "ewww racists, we must have our own counter-rally". Guess which one was larger and stronger.

"If invited, you need to carry a confederate battle flag which will be provided". I think this is the kind of thing that will be the fracture line. Or perhaps more subtle. At least the alt-white, until being attacked (sometimes literally) by virtue-signalling alt-lighters (OathCucks in one instance) would be quiet about the disagreements.

If Cernovich starts disavowing Spencer daily then there will be a problem.

The key will be to praise the allies you like, but be silent instead of virtue signalling or condemning the others fighting to defeat the left.

Anonymous Icicle July 09, 2017 6:25 PM  

It's not really a good execution if they don't struggle.

Anonymous Bb July 09, 2017 6:47 PM  

"... Immanuel Celler, the man who is primarily responsible for the demographic destruction of the United States ..."

So, with Cold War at an intense level, we are to believe that the White House, the State Department, Congress, and on and on, consisted of a bunch of 105 IQ podunks -- mental midgets devoid of agency or foresight.

Notice that 10 and 20 years after the fact -- after this "jihad" -- that with the nation's people seeing with their own eyes the changes afoot, still no effective political movement emerged to repeal.

Maybe no small number of red-blooded Americans were deriving benefits from, and even coming to have affection for, their immigrant neighbors.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright July 09, 2017 7:42 PM  

@39 It is true that my father had been a Jew...before he became a Buddhist.

On the other hand, my mother's family came over from England just after the Mayflower and were definitely here at the time of the writing of the Declaration and the Constitution.

So, even by Vox's rigorous standard, I am an American. ;-)


That being said...

If blood tells, why are so many true Americans--by Vox's rigorous standard--total SJWs? Why isn't their blood telling?


The problem with Rhetoric is...it cannot stand up against reality. It is only useful for persuading sheep. Worse, when a person is persuaded by rhetoric, he will change his mind as soon as someone comes along with snazzier rhetoric.

The advantage of dialectic is when someone is persuaded by reason, they stay persuaded.

Vox is a bright and brave man with brilliant ideas. He is so smart that much of what he understands, most people cannot follow—and that is a harsh and lonely way to live.

But that doesn’t mean that he can’t use his brilliance to learn how to present real arguments in a simple and concise manner that the masses can grasp.

This rhetoric nonsense is beneath him.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 7:46 PM  

This is the part where somebody posts the graph of Ashkenazi vs white voting trend.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 09, 2017 7:56 PM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:The advantage of dialectic is when someone is persuaded by reason, they stay persuaded.
The disadvantage of dialectic is that very very astoundingly few people are ever persuaded by it. Was your husband persuaded to embrace Christ via dialectic?

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 8:09 PM  

The Communist treason of the Jews, quantified.

An anti-Semitic snippet to save!

Anonymous Sharrukin July 09, 2017 8:30 PM  

69. L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright

The advantage of dialectic is when someone is persuaded by reason, they stay persuaded.

People aren't persuaded by reasoned argument.

This doesn't mean that reasoned argument has no place, but it is useful AFTER people have been traumatized, or been psychologically prepped in some way to accept a new possibility.

People are most persuaded by reasons they find themselves which is where rhetoric and humor are useful.

It creates the mental conditions which inspire people to look further on their own without personally challenging them.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy July 09, 2017 8:33 PM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:But that doesn’t mean that he can’t use his brilliance to learn how to present real arguments in a simple and concise manner that the masses can grasp.
That's what rhetoric is.

Blogger James Dixon July 09, 2017 9:01 PM  

> The problem with Rhetoric is...it cannot stand up against reality. It is only useful for persuading sheep.

And yet that's all the majority of people have ever been persuaded by.

> Worse, when a person is persuaded by rhetoric, he will change his mind as soon as someone comes along with snazzier rhetoric.

So your rhetoric just has to be the best. If it based on truth, it will be.

> The advantage of dialectic is when someone is persuaded by reason, they stay persuaded.

No. The advantage of dialectic is that it reinforces a decision already made on the basis or rhetoric, and gives the person a philosophical and intellectual basis for their decision, keeping them from being swayed by "snazzier rhetoric". There is a place for both, but rhetoric is what gets you started with the vast majority of people.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy July 09, 2017 9:17 PM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:This rhetoric nonsense is beneath him.
Go read the first section of Book 1 of Aristotle's Rhetoric. (A tolerable translation is available here: https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/a/aristotle/a8rh/ )

Rhetoric is merely the art of persuasion. Aristotle wrote his book because bad people were using rhetoric, and the texts available at that time focused on using rhetoric for evil purposes, and therefore taught only bad (ineffective) rhetoric. He wanted good people to learn how to use rhetoric to convey the truth, because if good people do not use rhetoric for good ends, the bad guys win.

Opposition to rhetoric is exactly equivalent to gun control: The only thing that stops a bad guy with a meme is a good guy with a meme.

Blogger VD July 09, 2017 9:17 PM  

But that doesn’t mean that he can’t use his brilliance to learn how to present real arguments in a simple and concise manner that the masses can grasp.

I can't. No one can. Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing creature.

This rhetoric nonsense is beneath him.

If it's not beneath Aristotle, it certainly isn't beneath me. I strongly suggest you read his Rhetoric.

Blogger VD July 09, 2017 9:21 PM  

If blood tells, why are so many true Americans--by Vox's rigorous standard--total SJWs? Why isn't their blood telling?

Blood doesn't dictate particulars. It dictates tribe and loyalty. The different tribes have different inclinations and capabilities. The fact that the English can grasp the concept of small government does not mean they will choose it. The Germans, the Jews, and the Asians can't even properly grasp it, on average.

Anonymous Luke July 09, 2017 10:14 PM  

26. wreckage July 09, 2017 12:16 PM
"One reason the alt-right is inevitable is because the people the civic nationalists voted for, time and time again, cucked them bleeding on the issue of immigration.

People will keep moving Right until they get their basic rights back. One of those is the collective right to the land they occupy. If the center won't do it they'll go alt-right, and if the alt-right fails they'll go alt-retard."


I disagree with the last clause. I believe that if the alt-right "fails", that the [white] people will go alt-open civil war. Think tens of thousands of bodies at the very least, probably 1-2 orders of magnitude higher. We're in a Fourth Turning, after all, and those usually involve total wars.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 09, 2017 10:37 PM  

At the very least, a person has to be knocked loose from whatever position he's convinced is correct before you can persuade him to a new one. Reason can't do the first part of that; rhetoric can.

I was thinking about that today while reading an Ann Barnhardt piece where she called Francis anti-pope. She, like many others, used to insist that he was the pope, and they had lots of reasons they believed that had to be true. Then one day something happened that knocked them loose from that position and made them willing to hear something else. It wasn't a new line of reasoning that did that, and it wasn't that he did something specific that was radically different from what he'd been doing (though they might convince themselves it was). It was that lots of little things built up until the anger shook them loose from their position, and they became willing to hear arguments they previously wouldn't have considered. The reasons they found persuasive at that point wouldn't have touched them the day before.

Rhetoric comes first. Not just for us dumb sheep; for everyone.

Anonymous 036789345 July 09, 2017 10:38 PM  

"But the Alt-Right is more than willing to fight to defend our various nations", said Vox, an American, safely from his villa in Italy.

Blogger Koanic July 09, 2017 10:42 PM  

> "But the Alt-Right is more than willing to fight to defend our various nations", said Vox, an American, safely from his villa in Italy.

Herp a derp. It's propaganda phase. Intellectuals please remain well back from the front lines. You are required to fulfill your daily keyboard quota.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 09, 2017 10:46 PM  

81. 036789345

said Vox, an American, safely from his villa in Italy.

And you think if he was in South Dakota, or Ohio that would make his words ring truer?

Does that also mean that anyone in the United States cannot make a statement on Europe?

Or maybe you are just an idiot without an argument so you grasp at anything you can find.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 09, 2017 10:49 PM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:The problem with Rhetoric is...it cannot stand up against reality.

Rhetoric and reality are not incompatible. Indeed, the best rhetoric is a persuasive, memorable presentation of reality.

I think you know better, and usually you don't write nonsense.

Anonymous Martin from Germanz July 10, 2017 12:01 AM  

Bodo Staron wrote:Three generations? Depends. Even the great Aristotle was wrong if you look at the example of Germany and Austria. The third generation Turks are often worse integrated than their parents and grandparents.

Most of them have to go back.


All of them. The Turks in Germany not only are negatively selected IQ-wise -- 1st gen: 82, 2nd gen: 79 (see "Der mittlere IQ der Bildungsstufen", which is a PDF extracted from Volkmar Weiss' magnum opus, available on his website) --, but they are far too alien in character and temperament. And they are, as all non-Europeans, nepotistic and clannish. I don't even want most Poles in Germany. Just get rid of them, no matter how. I would leave Japan if I noticed I'm getting on their nerves, for example. But most immigrants think they have a right to live in my country -- which was handed to me temporarily by my ancestors -- and get on my nerves with their alien looks and alien languages. So fuck 'em. Let's just hope they haven't already done as much genetic damage as they did in Spain and southern Europe in general (the Greeks are almost completely gone, mostly Turk in DNA now; see Lynn's talk about Dysgenics at American Renaissance).

(I live in western Germany and went to a multicultural school. It was hell, but it took me several years [almost a decade after school] to become aware of the situation [race-aware, as some call it]. And now I'm not only hearing more and more foreign non-European languages being spoken around my town, but of course I am _seeing_ more and more foreigners, especially blacks and middle-easterners, which makes my blood pressure rise. What the fuck are they doing here? This is genetic warfare. And I know through my experience at school and the apartment block I'm living in that they despise Germans.)

Anonymous Hitler July 10, 2017 12:10 AM  

Soon brother, soon.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 10, 2017 2:32 AM  

@58 Snidely Whiplash

The reason a self-described Odinist such as myself cares about the political trajectory of Christianity on the macro level is that we live in the same world and the same societies. The less cucked people that exist (of any faith or none at all), the better the trajectory of the world my future children (not metaphorical, my fiancee is expecting our first) grow up in. Secondly, Christians are approximately 70% of the population in the United States. The way they view the world on the whole affects everything. For this reason, as well as several others, I am 100% behind Vox's campaign to uncuck Christians. Thirdly, I am deeply appreciative of the fact that the American Christian vote prevented a Hilary presidency. There is no way around it, if all Christians had stayed home on election day, the God Emperor would not be in office. There are obviously, in whole numbers, a lot of cucked Christians who preferred Hilary, but at the macro level the outpour of the uncucked ones swung the election. A lot of Christians, as individuals and for reasons not directly derivative of their faith, did the wrong thing, but many more did the right thing. Sincerely, fucking thank you. Fourthly, I am not anti-Christianity or anti-Christendom. My enemies are the enemies of Christianity. There are certainly plenty of embarassing Asatru in the world. Between the White Power types, the larping types (I occasionally toss out a "Victory or Valhalla" or similar phrase, but its more tongue in cheek for my own amusement than any serious sentiment) and the universalist ultra lefties, I certainly take plenty of Asatru to task for other reasons in other spheres than this blog. The degradation of Christians is the degradation of all Westerners. I certainly have plenty of issues with specific Christians or specific Christian groups, but this is for reasons beyond simply being a Christian. The same could be said for members of any faith. Even though plenty in the alt right are quick to insult me for my Asatru affiliations, I will simply shrug off such insults and still man up and do my part undaunted. I could go on forever with reasons why I care, but that's a pretty good overview. I'll leave it at that.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 10, 2017 2:35 AM  

@58

When great forces are at move in the world, we're spirits, not animals. Originally taken from Goldwater and later quoted by Reagan. That's one of my favorite. Based on this quote alone, I would prefer to think that Christians and Asatru could be seemless allies. Then again, what I prefer to think has no bearing on what will prove itself to be true in the future.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy July 10, 2017 3:03 AM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:If blood tells, why are so many true Americans--by Vox's rigorous standard--total SJWs? Why isn't their blood telling?
Are there any? I haven't come up with a single example.

Blogger Othmar Regin July 10, 2017 5:46 AM  

If you truly believe in Christian teachings than a Christian from Sub-Saharan Africa is no different from a Christian from Lapland(North Finland) and you have to give them equal rights and privileges - there is no going around this, "Christian Nationalism" is an OxyMORON you are a moron if you're Cuckristian one way or the other

Blogger John Williams July 10, 2017 12:00 PM  

Some time ago, Vox referenced a Mexican living in Texas, the Mexican said something along the lines of "my family has lived here for 10 generations, that makes this land Mexico." There is no time of occupation that will make nationalistic invaders Americans. Letting invaders occupy the nation is simply civic nationalistic enabling of White Genocide.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 10, 2017 12:02 PM  

Othmar Regin wrote:If you truly believe in Christian teachings than a Christian from Sub-Saharan Africa is no different from a Christian from Lapland(North Finland) and you have to give them equal rights and privileges - there is no going around this, "Christian Nationalism" is an OxyMORON you are a moron if you're Cuckristian one way or the other
If you truly believe in Christian teachings, then a Christian straight out of prison on a rape/muder conviction is no different from you own daughter, and you have to give them the same rights and privileges -there is no going around this. You must, for instance, let them both sleep in your home and drive your car. "

Blogger John Williams July 10, 2017 12:05 PM  

If you truly believe in Christian teachings than a Christian from Sub-Saharan Africa is no different from a Christian from Lapland
Don't be stupid. I would be lost if I found myself in a Christian African village. I would not simply fit in. I would seek to change their village to fit me. The same goes for them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 10, 2017 12:07 PM  

Your statement is ludicrous on its face Tiny Duck. It's amazing to me that someone like you thinks it's even remotely similar to persuasive.

Blogger John Williams July 10, 2017 12:16 PM  

said Vox, an American, safely from his villa in Italy.
Italy is the Fulda Gap in the Migrant Invasion of Europe. "From his villa" Vox has a front line view of the war. Please seek to disqualify harder, lowly SJW.

Anonymous Jack Murphy July 10, 2017 1:22 PM  

to 74:

"People aren't persuaded by reasoned argument.

This doesn't mean that reasoned argument has no place, but it is useful AFTER people have been traumatized, or been psychologically prepped in some way to accept a new possibility."

My personal story reflects confirms this assessment as well as all the research I've done on political transformations. Everyone I've talked to who switched from Democrat to Trump supporter recounts a "mind melting" experience, or some trauma which opens their mind to alternative view points. The current Democratic policies and philosophies seems to create these events at a higher rate than previously assumed. Pundits and researchers appear to be shocked at the rate of conversion in the last election, and given how the structural forces at work are still in place, those conversions should continue.

Interesting discussion here as always, thanks!

Anonymous Pennywise July 10, 2017 9:42 PM  

"I would say that if three generations are required for citizenship, at least four generations are the bare minimum for political office, as that would have prevented Immanuel Celler, the man who is primarily responsible for the demographic destruction of the United States, from being elected to the House of Representatives and waging his successful 40-year jihad against White Christian America."

I can't put my finger on it, but I once heard from someone who said, "I disagree. I consider their responses to be both observably incorrect as well as logically nonsensical, which is why I don't feel they merit addressing. Examine both of them again more closely."

Blogger Pteronarcyd July 10, 2017 11:48 PM  

Well reasoned, except that instead of allowing Jews to become nationalized citizens after three generations and hold political office after four, Jews, like Muslims, should be (should have been) banned entirely from immigrating. A fatal flaw of the Constitution was the ban on a religious test for office, and the freedom of religion granted beyond Christianity. The Declaration makes clear that we were founded on the principles of natural law, but Vattel's "Law of Nations" makes it clear that one nation cannot harbor people of multiple religions. We can give the Founders credit for being able to see that one coherent nation can arise among people of multiple Christian denominations, but they lose serious points by extending this concept to non-Christian ideologies, especially Islam (with which we were at war with, in the form of the Barbary pirates, from the beginning) and Judaism.

Supporters of Israel justify its nationalist policies on the basis that the country is a religious nation. The US should correct its flawed founding principle from that of freedom of religion to freedom of Christian belief.

Anonymous Luke July 11, 2017 12:16 AM  

This would never happen in Africa nor in (non-Japanese) Asia:

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/20170710/amazing-human-chain-formed-to-rescue-drowning-family-in-pcb

80 people made a human chain stretching over 100 yards to rescue a family in the process of drowning from rip currents off Panama City Beach.

=====================================

Oh, and the Israeli gov't took Hungary's side against Soros, agreeing that he's a threat: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-hungary-soros-idUSKBN19V1J4

Anonymous VD is a dialectician masquerading as a rhetorician July 11, 2017 2:31 AM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:@39 It is true that my father had been a Jew...before he became a Buddhist.

On the other hand, my mother's family came over from England just after the Mayflower and were definitely here at the time of the writing of the Declaration and the Constitution.

So, even by Vox's rigorous standard, I am an American. ;-)

That being said...

If blood tells, why are so many true Americans--by Vox's rigorous standard--total SJWs? Why isn't their blood telling?

The problem with Rhetoric is...it cannot stand up against reality. It is only useful for persuading sheep. Worse, when a person is persuaded by rhetoric, he will change his mind as soon as someone comes along with snazzier rhetoric.

The advantage of dialectic is when someone is persuaded by reason, they stay persuaded.

Vox is a bright and brave man with brilliant ideas. He is so smart that much of what he understands, most people cannot follow—and that is a harsh and lonely way to live.

But that doesn’t mean that he can’t use his brilliance to learn how to present real arguments in a simple and concise manner that the masses can grasp.

This rhetoric nonsense is beneath him.



VD decided to make the Preamble preeminent in discussing the Articles of the Constitution. Nobody does this, because it would make little sense where it doesn't provoke profound confusion.

Take his argument about original meaning of Posterity. Do we want to interpret the Constitution with an original meaning of "arms" with the same strictures he's put upon "Posterity?"

It's dialectical fun in the rhetorical space. Nerds love this kind of thing.

Anonymous My Precious July 11, 2017 2:59 AM  

My Precious

Blogger VD July 11, 2017 5:08 AM  

VD decided to make the Preamble preeminent in discussing the Articles of the Constitution. Nobody does this, because it would make little sense where it doesn't provoke profound confusion.

The core purpose makes little sense? Really?

Blogger James Dixon July 11, 2017 6:33 AM  

> Think tens of thousands of bodies at the very least, probably 1-2 orders of magnitude higher.

It was something like 600,000 last time. Roughly 2% of the population. Without nukes. Let that sink it. Six million is probably a low estimate.

Blogger James Dixon July 11, 2017 6:35 AM  

> Do we want to interpret the Constitution with an original meaning of "arms" with the same strictures he's put upon "Posterity?"

Why don't you tell us what you think the original meaning is?

Anonymous OMG REALLY July 11, 2017 10:39 AM  

VD wrote:VD decided to make the Preamble preeminent in discussing the Articles of the Constitution. Nobody does this, because it would make little sense where it doesn't provoke profound confusion.

The core purpose makes little sense? Really?


We also don't judge football games based on the merits of each team's cheerleaders.

The Constitution is a set of laws.

Anonymous Mathias July 15, 2017 3:13 PM  

@105,

I would hardly consider the Preamble, which contains the purpose, the END to which the laws are created, to be irrelevant to the interpretation of said law.

In other words, the first rule of the White Man's law is that it must benefit the White Man.

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