ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, July 03, 2017

I hate midwits

I really do.
Suzan Zaner‏ @szaner15
Ad hominem attacks are not an argument

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
They literally are. That's why it is called argumentum ad hominem. It is also a logical fallacy, but that's beside the point.
That smug, self-satisfied air they all manage to blithely convey while erroneously "correcting" people never ceases to make me want to erect vast pyramids comprised entirely of average-sized skulls across the landscape.


UPDATE: the exchange above was apparently insufficient warning to midwits here on the blog.

No they're not. Logical fallacies are NOT arguments.

You're flat-out wrong. Argumentum ad hominem is both an argument and a logical fallacy.

You shouldn't make them because they don't address the argument made by the other person, and VD, with your self-professed superior intelligence, you should know that.

Whether you should or should not make a form of argument is irrelevant to whether it is an argument or not. Furthermore, thanks to my well-established superior intelligence, what you are referring to is a debate, not an argument. A debate usually requires a reference to an argument made by another, an argument does not.

One shouldn't have to insult someone, pointing out the flaws in someone else's arguments is all that is needed to show them and anyone watching that they stupid.

Aristotle said you were wrong 2,500 years ago. Your position is not merely wrong, it is outdated by millennia.

Labels:

202 Comments:

1 – 200 of 202 Newer› Newest»
Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 11:04 AM  

oh, come now.

you know perfectly well that "literally" literally always means "figuratively".

Anonymous Clueless Cuckservative July 03, 2017 11:07 AM  

But...but...but...muh average averageness of the average man!

Blogger Zaklog the Great July 03, 2017 11:12 AM  

Of equal importance is that an insult is not the same as an ad hominem fallacy. I can insult you and also provide an argument. My use of an insult does not invalidate my argument. Far too many people who use the term "ad hominem" think that saying something unkind about your opponent means everything else you said can be dismissed.

Anonymous Sertorius July 03, 2017 11:14 AM  

You still might have to rethink that whole "genetic posterity" thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1PMt8bnz34

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 11:19 AM  

That smug, self-satisfied air they all manage to blithely convey while erroneously "correcting" people never ceases to make me want to erect vast pyramids of average-sized skulls across the landscape.

You have the patience of Job. And, you are kind.

Blogger tz July 03, 2017 11:19 AM  

Argumentum ad balaculum aka clue stick

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams July 03, 2017 11:20 AM  

Where are the 50 pages of footnotes to explain one tweet?

Blogger OGRE July 03, 2017 11:21 AM  

Ya gotta love it when people get their talking points from RationalWiki and Stefan Molyneux at the same time.

Also, if the quality of a person is parcel to a premise of an argument, then an ad hominem attacking that quality of said person is not a logical fallacy.

example:
1) Sam Harris is super smart.
2) Sam Harris is an atheist
3) If a super smart person is an atheist, then God doesn't exist.
4) Therefore, God doesn't exist.

Response: Sam Harris is a fucking idiot.

This is an ad hominem that denies premise 1 of the above argument. Thus, its not a fallacy as it directly attacks the soundness of the argument.

Anonymous LES July 03, 2017 11:22 AM  

OT: why can't I post a comment from my iPad? I'm signed in.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 11:22 AM  

5. Rabbi B July 03, 2017 11:19 AM
And, you are kind.


their suffering isn't needed.

only their flensed skulls are necessary as raw materials for pyramid building.

they can keep the rest of their bodies ... and their precious feels.

Blogger praetorian July 03, 2017 11:23 AM  

That smug, self-satisfied air they all manage to blithely convey while erroneously "correcting" people never ceases to make me want to erect vast pyramids of average-sized skulls across the landscape.

Coupling this with the recently uncovered architectural preferences of Vox's ancestors leads to some interesting speculative thoughts on the cyclical theory of history.

Anonymous damntull July 03, 2017 11:24 AM  

You're being pedantic.

Anonymous Looking Glass July 03, 2017 11:33 AM  

VD has a real Skulls on Pikes theme going today. I guess it is Monday, after all.

Anonymous Harambe July 03, 2017 11:40 AM  

Ad Hominem: You're wrong because you're a douche.
Not Ad Hominem: You're a douche. Also You're wrong.

Anonymous Tipsy July 03, 2017 11:49 AM  

Suzan would do well to read Love is a Fallacy by Max Shulman

Blogger Lazarus July 03, 2017 11:55 AM  

LES wrote:OT: why can't I post a comment from my iPad? I'm signed in.

Remember now, nobody likes a whiner.

Blogger pyrrhus July 03, 2017 12:10 PM  

That can be your next book, Vox, Pyramid of Skulls....

Anonymous JamesD July 03, 2017 12:11 PM  

Speaking of Midwits: Trump strikes again. He throws out the bright shiny object (Mika comments) for the low IQ Fake News to chase, then announces a major policy decision. Tillerson just announced we are deescalating Syria and Russia will decide things.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 12:19 PM  

Trump is more pro life than the Pope.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/03/donald-trump-offers-help-save-terminally-ill-baby-charlie-gard/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_fb_tmg

Anonymous TS July 03, 2017 12:25 PM  

"make me want to erect vast pyramids comprised entirely of average-sized skulls across the landscape."

Jesus! Over react much?

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 12:29 PM  

18. JamesD July 03, 2017 12:11 PM
just announced we are deescalating Syria and Russia will decide things.



well, that's pretty much the definition of the status quo. Syria has been a Russian proxy since, what, the 1960s?

the USA isn't going to be ABLE to have much in the way of direct control within Syrian borders so long as Assad is in power. and we don't seem to be declaring war or making serious efforts to assassinate Assad.

therefore, it's stupid of us to continue attempting to jack with Assad in a half assed way.

much better if Assad / Russia take care of Daeesh in Syria while we concern ourselves with the cross border control in Iraq. do some moderate cross border coordination and that should be the extent of our involvement there.

oh, and John McCain needs to be shot for Treason for fomenting insurrection and unilaterally conducting foreign policy.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 12:30 PM  

@20 TS

"average-sized skulls..." heh...

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 12:31 PM  

20. TS July 03, 2017 12:25 PM
Jesus! Over react much?



trust a TranServative to Concern Troll and retreat to his fainting couch.

shut up and put your anal pacifier dildo back where it belongs, fag.

Anonymous Very Dumb July 03, 2017 12:40 PM  

Dude, you are wrong. You fail to understand the original term, its history and the modern usage of the word argument.

You are ignorant and now you are crowing in front of your followers. You are absurd.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 12:42 PM  

@24 Very Dumb

Can we see your lobotomy scar?

Anonymous Bob July 03, 2017 12:45 PM  

lol, I'm not sure who is the midwit in this exchange.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 12:46 PM  

Always amusing to see the poster boys for the OP out themselves.

Every.Damn.Time

Blogger Bob Loblaw July 03, 2017 12:51 PM  

...comprised entirely of average-sized skulls...

Heh. That made me laugh.

Blogger seeingsights July 03, 2017 12:54 PM  

Vox is correct, an ad hominem is an argument. Usually considered an invalid argument, however a grad student in philosophy pointed out to me a possibly valid ad hominem argument. It was Nietzsche attaching Christ. Attacking Christ as a person could be valid if one were arguing against tenets of Christianity.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 12:56 PM  

24. Very Dumb July 03, 2017 12:40 PM
You fail to understand the original term, its history and the modern usage of the word argument.


both wikipedia and the online dictionaries say you're LYING, both accurately defining it as a form of Argument. which was Vox's point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
"However, in some cases, ad hominem attacks can be non-fallacious; i.e., if the attack on the character of the person is directly tackling the argument itself. For example, if the truth of the argument relies on the truthfulness of the person making the argument—rather than known facts—then pointing out that the person has previously lied is not a fallacious argument."

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ad-hominem
"An ad hominem argument is one that relies on personal attacks rather than reason or substance."

Blogger VD July 03, 2017 12:58 PM  

Dude, you are wrong. You fail to understand the original term, its history and the modern usage of the word argument.

You're wrong about the original term, you're wrong about the history, and you're wrong about the modern usage.

You are ignorant and now you are crowing in front of your followers. You are absurd.

You're wrong again. You're clearly far too short for this ride.

Blogger VD July 03, 2017 12:59 PM  

Usually considered an invalid argument

No, not an invalid argument, but rather, a logically fallacious argument. An argument can be logically fallacious and incorrect, logically correct and incorrect, logically correct and correct, and even logically fallacious and correct.

And all four types are valid arguments.

Blogger VD July 03, 2017 1:01 PM  

You're being pedantic.

Not in the slightest. An argumentum ad hominem cannot be anything but an argument. That's not pedantic, that is being rooted in reality.

Blogger VD July 03, 2017 1:01 PM  

lol, I'm not sure who is the midwit in this exchange.

If you're not sure, then you are. At best.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents July 03, 2017 1:08 PM  

Since sperg week is obviously continuing, I want the fedora concession. At least for this comment thread.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 1:12 PM  

31. VD July 03, 2017 12:58 PM
You're wrong again. You're clearly far too short for this ride.



best of all? VeryDumb's "argument" is an unfounded assertion that Vox is "ignorant" and therefore wrong due to his lack of knowledge.

ie - he's using an Argumentum ad Hominem to disqualify whether Vox understands the proper definition of ad Hominem in his discourse with Suzan.

that kind of puts the cherry on top, doesn't it?

Blogger Koanic July 03, 2017 1:21 PM  

> vast pyramids comprised entirely of average-sized skulls

It's time to have a national conversation about melonhead racism.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 03, 2017 1:22 PM  

Very Dumb wrote:Dude, you are wrong. You fail to understand the original term, its history and the modern usage of the word argument.


The arguments of the person:
argumentum ad populus : Everyone agrees with this, therefore it is true

argumentum at expertus : I'm an expert, and I believe this, therefore it is true

argumentum ad consensus : same as above, but throw in the word consensus

argumentum ad hominem : You're bad and therefore this is false

These are all arguments. They are also logical fallacies, in that the conclusion does not follow from the premise. It may be true, it may be false, but it does not follow.

Not argumentum ad hominem : You're wrong, and you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny

This is an insult, in your case, deserved.

Blogger OGRE July 03, 2017 1:34 PM  

An argument form is valid if its premises logically imply the conclusion. An argument is sound if it has a valid argument form and all its premises are true. An argument can be sound and thus must have a valid form, it can be unsound and still have a valid form (if it has a false premise), or it can have an invalid form and then necessarily be unsound (even if all its premises are true). It should be noted that an unsound argument does not imply the negation of the conclusion; all it means is that the set of premises taken together do not necessarily imply the conclusion. An unsound argument may still have a true conclusion, it just doesn't provide a convincing basis for accepting the truth of the conclusion.

A formal logical fallacy is a judgment on the argument form, essentially claiming that the logic used to reach the conclusion is invalid. But there are a bunch of informal fallacies that don't speak to the validity of the argument's form or the truth of its premises; instead they make claims immaterial to the argument itself.

Ad Hominem is one such informal fallacy. As it makes no comment on the argument itself, it does not assert that either the argument form is invalid or that the premises are untrue; instead it makes an attack on the proponent of the argument unrelated to the argument itself.

But there are a number of arguments that do include as a premise the quality of the argument's proponent. The premise may not be stated outright, but it is suggested, and this is usually found in inductive and abductive arguments rather than strict deductive logic. Any argument that in part rests upon a claim such as "X is intelligent" or "X is highly educated" is bolstering its persuasiveness using such unstated premises. An ad hominem attack in such an instance is a direct and proper attack on the argument and not at all a fallacy.

This is common in trials where an expert witness is used. The opposing side may attack the experts credentials or personal history related to his area of expertise in an attempt to discredit the experts conclusions. A trial can be won or lost based on how effective such an ad hominem attack may be.

Anonymous Unknown (Google) July 03, 2017 1:41 PM  

We all hate in others what we see in ourselves.

Blogger Duke Norfolk July 03, 2017 1:47 PM  

JamesD wrote:Trump strikes again. He throws out the bright shiny object (Mika comments) for the low IQ Fake News to chase, then announces a major policy decision.

Heh, heh. They're never going to catch on, are they? OTOH they're incapable of not responding to the rhetoric that so effectively tweaks their amygdalae and emotions (which they are ruled by).

Ah well, really tough break for them.

Anonymous View July 03, 2017 1:52 PM  

Re are ad hominem attacks an argument... one recent time that i was on the receiving end of an ad hominem attack comes to mind...I would call it a decent argument but there was one incorrect fact in it...... I went to the beach with my wife and i had on a superman t shirt and this white guy yelled out the window from his car - u r not superman u faggot- His argument in my not being superman was absolutely irrefutable but wrong in me being a faggot.....perhaps the key with ad hominem attacks is brevity less is more

Anonymous VFM #6306 July 03, 2017 1:56 PM  

"Not an argument" is not an argument.

Blogger Tuatha July 03, 2017 1:56 PM  

After reviewing my personal ideology, I am greatly unsure if I am even an american. Despite having lived in Yankland for all of my life with the purity of 300+ years of ancestors, I completely abhor all that is american and republican as both lack authenticity and integrity. I disagree with the constitution and only see it burning in the future.
Where would I or anyone like me fit in the scheme of the Great American Reconquest? Deported or segregated?

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 1:58 PM  

40. Unknown (Google) July 03, 2017 1:41 PM
We all hate in others what we see in ourselves.



the failure in your attempted insult is that you left the set of ( Hated Things ) unbounded.

indeed, it may well be that we hate in others things that we see in ourselves.

this does not exclude that i can hate others for things which are no part of me, Objectively or Subjectively.

otherwise, you're telling me that Audie Murphy hated cowards because he considered himself a coward.

go back and try again, simpleton.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 2:03 PM  

44. Tuatha July 03, 2017 1:56 PM
Where would I or anyone like me fit in the scheme of the Great American Reconquest? Deported or segregated?



you told us what you don't like. that doesn't tell us what you do like.

and you can't find like-minded people until you do that.

though if you're not going to agree with us, i think most of us simply Don't Care.

Blogger dvdivx July 03, 2017 2:03 PM  

Satan has a far higher IQ than you but that does not make him good. Its like Hawking griping about the fallacy of global warming caused by man. There is no point worrying about critics not capable of reason.

Blogger Matthew Taylor July 03, 2017 2:06 PM  

After reviewing my personal ideology, I am greatly unsure if I am even an american. Despite having lived in Yankland for all of my life with the purity of 300+ years of ancestors, I completely abhor all that is american and republican as both lack authenticity and integrity. I disagree with the constitution and only see it burning in the future.
Where would I or anyone like me fit in the scheme of the Great American Reconquest? Deported or segregated?

Shot for treason most likely.

Blogger SirHamster July 03, 2017 2:10 PM  

TS wrote:"make me want to erect vast pyramids comprised entirely of average-sized skulls across the landscape."

Jesus! Over react much?


Imagine being punched in the face daily every day of your life. How do you feel about the people punching you?

That's what blatant stupidity is to those who value truth and intelligence.

Anonymous Didas Kalos July 03, 2017 2:18 PM  

Sam Harris is fat! (ad hominem)

Blogger Gordon July 03, 2017 2:21 PM  

No, no. Let'stand keep the alliteration going. Next book: A Midden of Midwits

Blogger VD July 03, 2017 2:26 PM  

Where would I or anyone like me fit in the scheme of the Great American Reconquest? Deported or segregated?

No one cares.

Anonymous Kek July 03, 2017 2:30 PM  

VD: "No one cares."

Except for Bob and Matthew...

Anonymous patrick kelly July 03, 2017 2:41 PM  

I care, but I'm trying to change.

OT: Did anyone come up with better rhetoric than cuck/cuckservative? I saw the 500+ comment count and I'm just too damn lazy to read it all.

Blogger Johnny July 03, 2017 2:44 PM  

VD: "No one cares."

If things go as expected it will not be possible to fine tune the outcome. The identity thing will be white, or (culturally) European, or Christian, or whatever the excitement of the moment dictates.

I doubt the country will break up because people never go for losing territory, but spinning off portions of the Southwest would be workable. Or maybe just an expulsion of the illegals. But regardless, it will be whatever is supported politically based on the excitement of the moment. And I will pass on talking about the blacks.

Anonymous Credo In Unum Deum July 03, 2017 2:46 PM  

They literally are.

No they're not. Logical fallacies are NOT arguments.

You shouldn't make them because they don't address the argument made by the other person, and VD, with your self-professed superior intelligence, you should know that.

One shouldn't have to insult someone, pointing out the flaws in someone else's arguments is all that is needed to show them and anyone watching that they stupid.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 2:47 PM  

Midwits. Midwits everywhere.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 2:49 PM  

One shouldn't have to insult someone, pointing out the flaws in someone else's arguments is all that is needed to show them and anyone watching that they stupid.

You're a moron.

QED

Anonymous Eduardo July 03, 2017 2:49 PM  

You guys are going at each other's throats for a difference in definition of the word Argument people...

calm down...

Anonymous patrick kelly July 03, 2017 2:51 PM  

Do words still mean things if they don't mean what you think they mean?
Is the meaning of the word mean mean?

Anonymous TS July 03, 2017 2:54 PM  

The correct phrasing is:

ad hominem argument is a very, very bad argument.

Anonymous Mike July 03, 2017 2:59 PM  

"make me want to erect vast pyramids comprised entirely of average-sized skulls across the landscape."

You can't do that! Where would we get our school administrators and newspaper editors?

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 3:00 PM  

You can't do that! Where would we get our school administrators and newspaper editors?.

And a number of commenters at VP.

Blogger Krul July 03, 2017 3:02 PM  

"I hate midwits"

*500 midwits appear* "Actually..."

Blogger Happy LP9 July 03, 2017 3:02 PM  

Well, perhaps its (always) about being the hero of the story or having the last word or seeking a medal of honor at twitter. MPAI in that alot of people don't know was ad hom really means.

Blogger Happy LP9 July 03, 2017 3:03 PM  

At least you tried to help her.

Blogger Beowulf the Geat July 03, 2017 3:05 PM  

@56 "No they're not. Logical fallacies are NOT arguments."

Yes they are. For example: "Manchester Utd. is a better football club than Liverpool F.C. because I support them" is logically fallacious, but it is still an argument.

And as Vox said, an argument could be logically fallacious and yet still correct. For instance, "bees have wings, bees are insects, wasps are insects, therefore wasps have wings."

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 3:06 PM  

@64 Krul

*I hate boomers.* "Actually, ..."

Hey, I think you might be on to something.

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook July 03, 2017 3:08 PM  

Please don't add mine to the pyramid.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 03, 2017 3:08 PM  

@59 There is no substantive debate over the definition of argument here, only those who demonstrate that they don't understand what an argument is.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 03, 2017 3:10 PM  

Ad Hominem: You're wrong because you're a douche.
Not Ad Hominem: You're a douche. Also You're wrong.


Insult: You're a douche. (Also an argument)

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 3:14 PM  

No it's not.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 3:16 PM  

An argument is a series of connected statements intended to establish a proposition.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 3:17 PM  

62. Mike July 03, 2017 2:59 PM
You can't do that! Where would we get our school administrators and newspaper editors?



the second lowest rung of college degrees are the Teaching Majors.

the lowest rung of degrees are Education Administration.

ergo, statistically there are no skool administrators with average-sized skulls.

and thus, Vox won't have any interest in harvesting their heads for pyramid building due to the fact that the raw materials would violate the symmetry of the structure and destroy all attempts at generating Pyramid Power effects.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 03, 2017 3:27 PM  

@73 In modern usage, that's one definition but not the only one.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 03, 2017 3:31 PM  

Johnny wrote:The identity thing will be white, or (culturally) European, or Christian, or whatever the excitement of the moment dictates.
I was talking with my next-door neighbor yesterday, working on the fence. He went off on a tear about Mexicans, immigrants, coloreds and welfare. "Why isn't a White man allowed to make a living any more? Why do we need to import Indians and Africans to drive trucks? Don't we have enough Blacks in the country already? He ended up with "The damn Mexicans have to go back to Mexico."

He's a Portuguese immigrant.

Granted, he came here as an infant, pre 1965, but still.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora July 03, 2017 3:32 PM  

Only good arguments are apparently arguments now. Of course the quality of the argument is to be determined by the people with the 'I Win' button.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 3:34 PM  

Never seen the Argument Sketch, I take it? Why doncha Google that, buddy.

Blogger OGRE July 03, 2017 3:35 PM  

I could be arguing in my spare time

Blogger slarrow July 03, 2017 3:38 PM  

@78, I wondered if anyone was going to take the bait.

Blogger VD July 03, 2017 3:38 PM  

No they're not. Logical fallacies are NOT arguments.

You're flat-out wrong. Argumentum ad hominem is both an argument and a logical fallacy.

You shouldn't make them because they don't address the argument made by the other person, and VD, with your self-professed superior intelligence, you should know that.

Whether you should or should not make a form of argument is irrelevant to whether it is an argument or not. Furthermore, thanks to my well-established superior intelligence, what you are referring to is a debate, not an argument. A debate usually requires a reference to an argument made by another, an argument does not.

One shouldn't have to insult someone, pointing out the flaws in someone else's arguments is all that is needed to show them and anyone watching that they stupid.

Aristotle said you were wrong 2,500 years ago. Your position is not merely wrong, it is outdated by millennia.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 3:39 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Anonymous FrancoWasRight July 03, 2017 3:39 PM  

4. Sertorius: That Ancestry.com commercial (propaganda) shows the absurd duplicity of the (((common culture))). You see the angry, defiant look of those "descendants" who, in other forums and parts of our culture, constantly BASH the signers of the declaration, as "slave owners" and old white men, and all that "privilege" that they are supposedly so against.

So which is it? Are you PROUD that you are a descendant of those "old,white male slave owners" that left such a horrible legacy that has to be destroyed, or are you ashamed to be associated with those old white male slave owners and should your NAME BE PLASTERED AMONG the despicable s as the privileged descendants?

Anonymous Icicle July 03, 2017 3:41 PM  

Everyone is a midwit to me.

Blogger Happy LP9 July 03, 2017 3:42 PM  

8 I noted that too.

(Rogan will talk to Sam Harris over Cernovich, Sam is so so creepy. Sam wont even debate Vox.)

Blogger Krul July 03, 2017 3:45 PM  

I'm a midwit to everyone.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) July 03, 2017 3:48 PM  

I'm disappointed we didn't get a single WELL ACTUALLY SKULL SIZE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IQ comment

Blogger Jemison Thorsby July 03, 2017 3:49 PM  

@82 - I wondered when that was going to come up. Surprised it took that long.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit July 03, 2017 3:52 PM  

@82 bob kek mando

Damn, beat me to it. That was my first thought too.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 4:04 PM  

I am starting to think 'midwits' may have been a bit generous.

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:24 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:An argument is a series of connected statements intended to establish a proposition.

Not always. Look up the term Triumvir, the three tools an educated man needs. An educated Roman man was expected know Logic, Rhetoric, and Grammar.

Rhetoric is a tool of argument, whether you like it or not. You use Logic on people who use their heads, Rhetoric on people who follow their hearts. Both used together are more powerful than each used seprately.

Blogger Cubby8126 July 03, 2017 4:25 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cubby8126 July 03, 2017 4:25 PM  

When idiots use an ad hominem it's because their arguments have disolved into nothing, but when a bright guy like vox uses it it's because your position is idiotic, and by affiliation, so are you. If he insults you just walk away and don't sperg. I hear sperg and gamma attracts the vfm to the court

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 4:27 PM  

Never seen the Argument Sketch, have you?

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:29 PM  

LES wrote:OT: why can't I post a comment from my iPad? I'm signed in.

Because Apple hates you. They are hatemongers. Dropping the Apple rainbow log for their new all-white logo proves this.

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:30 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Never seen the Argument Sketch, have you?

Did so!

Blogger Andrew Taylor July 03, 2017 4:30 PM  

Even Stef "Not an Argument" Molyneux knows this, and regularly deploys rhetoric to spectacular effect.

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:31 PM  

Cubby8126 wrote:When idiots use an ad hominem it's because their arguments have disolved into nothing, but when a bright guy like vox uses it it's because your position is idiotic, and by affiliation, so are you. If he insults you just walk away and don't sperg. I hear sperg and gamma attracts the vfm to the court

Which is why encouraging sperg and Gamma is a good thing.

Blogger weka July 03, 2017 4:34 PM  

Jellyfish goanna jellyfish.
Observation not argument.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 4:34 PM  

No it isn't

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 4:34 PM  

I don't believe you

Blogger SmockMan July 03, 2017 4:34 PM  

VD, you are correct. If anything you should be more belligerent about the joys of the ad hominem argument. As philosophy teacher Keith Burgess-Jackson says, your arguments MUST be ad hominem to be persuasive.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 4:35 PM  

84. Icicle July 03, 2017 3:41 PM
Everyone is a midwit to me.



impressive.

i had no idea that a single digit IQ would be capable of typing a covfefe sentence.

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:40 PM  

Matthew Taylor wrote:After reviewing my personal ideology, I am greatly unsure if I am even an american. Despite having lived in Yankland for all of my life with the purity of 300+ years of ancestors, I completely abhor all that is american and republican as both lack authenticity and integrity. I disagree with the constitution and only see it burning in the future.

Where would I or anyone like me fit in the scheme of the Great American Reconquest? Deported or segregated?

Shot for treason most likely.


I'd go with the Pinochet solution. Give him 24 hour notice to get his ass to the Swedish Embassy and request asylum. We are no more cruel than we have to be.

Blogger Matthew July 03, 2017 4:42 PM  

Argumentum ad fontem:

You are wrong because you expressed your position using Comic Sans.

Blogger Matthew July 03, 2017 4:44 PM  

Argumentum ad smokem:

Texas BBQ sucks because it is not limited to pulled pork.

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:44 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Johnny wrote:The identity thing will be white, or (culturally) European, or Christian, or whatever the excitement of the moment dictates.

I was talking with my next-door neighbor yesterday, working on the fence. He went off on a tear about Mexicans, immigrants, coloreds and welfare. "Why isn't a White man allowed to make a living any more? Why do we need to import Indians and Africans to drive trucks? Don't we have enough Blacks in the country already? He ended up with "The damn Mexicans have to go back to Mexico."

He's a Portuguese immigrant.

Granted, he came here as an infant, pre 1965, but still.


He is culturally an American.

People of other cultures can earn a residence permit, if they bring something useful to the table. But they should not be citizens.

Blogger Matthew July 03, 2017 4:47 PM  

Not Argumentum ad fontem:

What kind of goofball uses Comic Sans to write his dissertation? Were your examiners all clowns with ADD?

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:48 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:I don't believe you

Do not. You believe every word I say!

Blogger Matthew July 03, 2017 4:49 PM  

That's called poisoning the well.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 4:51 PM  

No I don't

Anonymous Nick July 03, 2017 4:52 PM  

Speaking of pyramids of skulls: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-archaeology-skulls-idUSKBN19M3Q6 And we've imported millions of the descendants of these people, at least we get burritos.

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:53 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:No I don't

OK, you believe some of the words I say.

Blogger Bobo #117 July 03, 2017 4:54 PM  

An argument is a series of connected statements intended to establish a proposition.

No itisn't

Yes it is!

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:55 PM  

Bobo #117 wrote:An argument is a series of connected statements intended to establish a proposition.

No itisn't

Yes it is!


Would you like to pay for another two minutes?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 4:56 PM  

No I don't

Blogger Kristophr July 03, 2017 4:56 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:No I don't

You are not an idiot. I admire your logic.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 03, 2017 4:58 PM  

@108  When your dissertation is on the Fontifex Maximus, it's mandatory.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. July 03, 2017 5:01 PM  

We are in a Dark Age. "Accurate" is now synonymous with "pedantic"; he who is accurate is little more than an eccentric.

Keep calm and Alt-Right on.



Anonymous DonReynolds July 03, 2017 5:04 PM  

Reminds me of Pothead Libertarians. They were tolerable as long as they confined their activities to huffing pot and playing video games parked on the old couch, but recently they have taken a keen interest in "history" and "civics" and "political science" without bothering to read a single book on the subject. They are armed with "expert knowledge" and inspired by the popular press with cute one-liners that prove nothing. Maybe now that the election is over (somebody tell them), they will go back to their callous indifference and libertine sex. The big anxiety lately is that Trump might cut off their monthly "disability" check. Yes, that is the talk. The taxpayers should be so lucky.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs July 03, 2017 5:10 PM  

Anyone else have a hankering for some Monty Python?

Blogger Bellguard July 03, 2017 5:12 PM  

This thread is reminiscent of a game of tug of war.

No it's not!
Yes it is!

Anonymous DonReynolds July 03, 2017 5:21 PM  

Argument is pretty pointless these days.
The purpose of argument (hopefully) is the discovery of the TRUTH, not simply an exercise in logic.
In the first place....There is no basis for argument when the parties have no common agreement (before the argument) on what constitutes good and what is bad. The Bizaro World will find nothing bad about evil and nothing good about things we hold to be of value.
In the second place.....When there is no agreed search for the TRUTH and no basis for determining what is the TRUTH, then the TRUTH cannot be discovered by argument. For argument to lead to agreement, there must be acceptance of an objective TRUTH. Lacking that, the argument only ends with an agreement to disagree or they cave just to shut you up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.....just go away.

I try not to engage in pointless argument. Either I have a piece of the TRUTH that they are not aware of.....or they have a TRUTH that I have not known. Once we find out that neither is the case, then the argument becomes pointless and we can stop the ride.

Anonymous Iron Spartan July 03, 2017 5:30 PM  

I need more popcorn for this

Anonymous Avalanche July 03, 2017 5:33 PM  

@5 Vox: That smug, self-satisfied air they all manage to blithely convey while erroneously "correcting" people never ceases to make me want to erect vast pyramids of average-sized skulls across the landscape.

Rabbi B: You have the patience of Job. And, you are kind.

Me: And your VFM, Dread Ilk, and Ilk will happily labor as long as you'd like to BUILD you vast pyramids out of skulls. You have only to say the word!

Blogger #7139 July 03, 2017 5:36 PM  

More skulls for the Supreme Dark Lord.

Anonymous Stickwick July 03, 2017 5:39 PM  

Argumentum ad prequelem:

You're wrong, because you think the Star Wars prequels were good movies.

---

Argumentum ad captainem:

You're wrong, because you think Picard > Kirk.

---

Argumentum ad Starbuckem:

You're wrong, because you think drinking frappuccinos means you drink coffee.

---

Argumentum ad sockem:

You're wrong, because I'm gonna punch you in the face.

---

Argumentum ad capsicum:

You're wrong, cuz you ain't got no chili.

Anonymous Avalanche July 03, 2017 5:40 PM  

@21 "oh, and John McCain needs to be shot for Treason for fomenting insurrection and unilaterally conducting foreign policy."

But then, we've known (agreed on) THAT for a decade plus!!)

Blogger Matthew July 03, 2017 5:41 PM  

Girl why you ain't come over no more?

Anonymous Stickwick July 03, 2017 5:43 PM  

Girl why you ain't come over no more?

You got tequila?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 5:45 PM  

No it isn't

Anonymous Avalanche July 03, 2017 5:46 PM  

@45 "go back and try again, simpleton."

Or, better yet, go AWAY and don't try again.

Blogger Bellguard July 03, 2017 5:47 PM  

Russ, is that you?

Blogger tz July 03, 2017 5:47 PM  

What we really need is a Catchpa that will filter the midwits out.

A pyramid of skulls. Empty containers?

Anonymous Mathias July 03, 2017 5:50 PM  

Anyone who would say that Texas BBQ sucks is a miserable cretin, and their cretinous-ness invalidates their argument. :P (P.S. Only Beef + Pork Ribs are real BBQ.)

Anonymous Avalanche July 03, 2017 5:51 PM  

@75 "ergo, statistically there are no skool administrators with average-sized skulls.
and thus, Vox won't have any interest in harvesting their heads for pyramid building due to the fact that the raw materials would violate the symmetry of the structure and destroy all attempts at generating Pyramid Power effects."

Grind up those mini-skulls and use the resulting 'sand' for the paths around the skull pyramids for the visitors to walk to.

Anonymous Avalanche July 03, 2017 5:58 PM  

@51 Next book: "A Midden of Midwits"
@57 "Midwits. Midwits everywhere."

(The short story spin-off for the anthology)

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis July 03, 2017 6:05 PM  

Regarding pyramids of skulls - see: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/HowTo:Build_a_Pyramid_of_Skulls
I recommend hiring project managers, architects, skull collectors, skull cleaners and stackers - it all costs time and money. Of course you could try and do it all yourself, but that will take a while...

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 6:06 PM  

I have tequila

Blogger Jack Ward July 03, 2017 6:16 PM  

@130 Stickwick
Stickwick, dear lady and first rate scientist, are you imbibing this afternoon?
OK if so. A

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 6:17 PM  

Milady

Blogger James July 03, 2017 6:22 PM  

Stickwick wrote:

Argumentum ad prequelem:

You're wrong, because you think the Star Wars prequels were good movies.

Argumentum ad captainem:

You're wrong, because you think Picard > Kirk.

Argumentum ad Starbuckem:

You're wrong, because you think drinking frappuccinos means you drink coffee.

Argumentum ad sockem:

You're wrong, because I'm gonna punch you in the face.

Argumentum ad capsicum:

You're wrong, cuz you ain't got no chili.



An argument with the left:

An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
No it isn't.
Yes, it is!
No, it isn’t!
Yes, it is! Look, an argument is an intellectual process. You are just contradicting me.
Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
Yes it is!
No it isn't!
Yes, it is!
Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. It is not an argument.
It can be.
No, it can’t!
Yes, it can!
No, it can’t!

Blogger Credo in unum Deum July 03, 2017 6:23 PM  

It wasn't me at @56. The guy who stole my name is back again.

Blogger Matthew July 03, 2017 6:44 PM  

Pick a better name, papist.

Anonymous CoolHand July 03, 2017 6:45 PM  

Tuatha wrote:After reviewing my personal ideology, I am greatly unsure if I am even an american. Despite having lived in Yankland for all of my life with the purity of 300+ years of ancestors, I completely abhor all that is american and republican as both lack authenticity and integrity. I disagree with the constitution and only see it burning in the future.

Where would I or anyone like me fit in the scheme of the Great American Reconquest? Deported or segregated?


Shot several times, left in a ditch somewhere.

Next question.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 6:48 PM  

New name: Augustine Off The Heezy

Anonymous Causal Lurker July 03, 2017 6:52 PM  

Skull size IS related to IQ: Insertion Quotient. An average skull gives 100 value insertion, so a pyramid of average skulls will take perfect shape.

At least until the VFM want to chew the fourth skull from the left, second to bottom row, and ... oops.

Blogger modsquad July 03, 2017 6:53 PM  

This whole thread really...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvcnx6-0GhA

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 6:56 PM  

Do we know that the internal volume of each skull is fully utilized? What if it's not average skull size, but how much utilization occurs? I'm fully convinced I use 17.567% of my internal brain volume.

Anonymous Stickywicket July 03, 2017 7:14 PM  

People keep asking me if I'm boozing it, but this is my normal, charming self.

Blogger Rabbi B July 03, 2017 7:35 PM  

*sigh* I miss Sheldona...

Blogger OGRE July 03, 2017 7:37 PM  

@149 What do you mean? African or European skull?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2017 7:39 PM  

OGRE,

Did you just assume the skulls' ethnicity?

Blogger Eric Slate July 03, 2017 7:39 PM  

Susan Zaner's statement from Twitter is based on the American disrespect for rhetoric. She's used to thinking of only logical arguments as "real arguments".

Lack of rhetorical study helped lead our culture to be vulnerable to rhetorical influence. The result is that a policy of rhetorical surpression backfired.

Blogger The Aardvark July 03, 2017 7:55 PM  

@35
It's a trilby.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 03, 2017 8:18 PM  

127. Stickwick July 03, 2017 5:39 PM Argumentum ad prequelem:
You're wrong, because you think the Star Wars prequels were good movies.


not a fallacy.

heck, that's practically 9th dimensional David Icke Objective Truth.

Anonymous Simplytimothy July 03, 2017 8:46 PM  

OT: Dilbert says that Trump, in a brilliant act if political rhetoric and a stunning display of the art of the deal, is considering putting solar panels on the wall.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/161543620451/solar-panels-on-the-wall

Blogger Credo in unum Deum July 03, 2017 8:50 PM  

@144. Why should I run?

Blogger WhatsThePitch July 03, 2017 8:51 PM  

I think modern politicians are empirical evidence of the strength of the ad hominem. They do everything they can to avoid it, but use it repeatedly against their opposition. And it works. Every time. The media uses it to no end, and lesser IQ populations live and die by it.

And, to be honest, it works on me, too. When I read about the stuff the Clinton's did and were involved in, I couldn't care less how carefully reasoned their political stances are. If ad hominem wasn't the most powerful argument in the history of mankind, why is Jesus Christ's life so squeaky clean?

Anonymous E. July 03, 2017 9:12 PM  

152 comments and this has probably already been said but tl;dr

"I came here for a good argument."

"No you didn't - you came here for an argument."

Anonymous JI July 03, 2017 9:13 PM  

"They literally are. That's why it is called argumentum ad hominem. It is also a logical fallacy, but that's beside the point."

Well duuuhhhh...

Blogger OGRE July 03, 2017 9:18 PM  

@153 Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.

Blogger Ken Prescott July 03, 2017 9:36 PM  

Argumentum ad rectum?

Blogger Mad Dad July 03, 2017 9:50 PM  

Argument from fallacy is the formal fallacy of analyzing an argument and inferring that, since it contains a fallacy, its conclusion must be false.[1] It is also called argument to logic (argumentum ad logicam), fallacy fallacy,[2] fallacist's fallacy,[3] and bad reasons fallacy.[4]

Anonymous Bernard Brandt July 03, 2017 9:54 PM  

I hate several things about midwits, which I define as educated folk with IQs of between 120-135.

First, these people are generally intellectual bullies. They've long known that they are 'smarter than the average bear', and capitalize on the fact that they are superior in knowledge and smarts to most people.

Second, borne out of the fact that they are bullies, is that they play conversations, and in fact all of life, as a zero-sum game. They win, you lose.

Third, because they are neither as smart nor as knowledgeable as they think they are, they are incapable of recognizing someone who is smarter or more knowledgeable than they are.

This is the species of critter that does Ivy League, and which Nassim Nicholas Taleb calls 'Intellectual Yet Idiot'.

A prime example of this type of critter can be found in the movie, 'Good Will Hunting', where Will and his friends crash a Harvard bar, and Will has a brief but devastatingly brutal talk with a first year grad student.

Personally, I find midwits so personally offensive to me that I switch from my normal mode of playing conversation as a non-zero sum game, and do my best to trounce the louts. I applaud Vox for doing the same.

And, in what my first late wife would call 'an abrupt and graceless change of subject', it is so good to see that you are still writing here, Stickwick. My best regards.

Anonymous Bernard Brandt July 03, 2017 10:00 PM  

And, having found the scene from 'Good Will Hunting', here it is. Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnZ0Y4rvz6E

Blogger Miss Carnivorous July 03, 2017 10:15 PM  

Arrrgghhh!!! I live in a cottage complex. The cottages are 10 ft away from each other. A half hour ago, my neighbor was underneath my window rearranging her shed, whilst yammering on and on about nothing in particular. Her conversation was completely inane. I could not stand it, so I went out and began to water my plants, thus wetting down the neighbor's shed contents which were piled upon the path ways between our cottages. She got the clue and removed the contents from the path way, as I had flooded it with water and her belongings would have been wet and moldy had they been sprayed with my hose. Seriously, I hate to listen to the conversations of people of substandard itelligence. It hurts my mind!!

Anonymous andon July 03, 2017 10:44 PM  

@ #166 - what i noticed, big puffed up egos all around

also, i was expecting "how do you like them apples"

Blogger tz July 03, 2017 11:03 PM  

Aristotle said you were wrong 2,500 years ago. Your position is not merely wrong, it is outdated by millennia.

But millenials date often, especially the online apps. Millenials may be logically fallacious, or outright stupid and insane, but that is not an argument.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit July 03, 2017 11:47 PM  

@105 That is one of the many hidden little jokes in our comic.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit July 03, 2017 11:50 PM  

Oh. And I forgot to add, even though (redacted for kindness sake) posts like this one by Mr Vox Day are golden.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop July 04, 2017 1:14 AM  

Bellator Mortalis wrote:Regarding pyramids of skulls...

I recommend hiring project managers, architects, skull collectors, skull cleaners and stackers - it all costs time and money. Of course you could try and do it all yourself, but that will take a while..


There is a unique structural quality about a pyramid constructed of identical sub-components (bricks, stones, skulls, etc.). This particular geometrical property allows a pyramid- and only a pyramid- to built as tall as desired in a uniform gravitational field.

For example, a cubical structure made of granite bricks can only be built about one kilometer tall in a one-gee field before its base is crushed by the weight above it, a failure in compression. (I did this calculation years ago and am quoting from memory.)

The tip of a pyramid, even one made of organic material such as bone, can reach to outer space. There is no limit imposed by the ultimate compression strength of the material. Each sub-component ("brick"), no matter where it is located in the structure, only has to support, at most, the weight of two identical components located above it.*

This is why the ancient pyramids have lasted.

*I'd have to look up my ancient notes to double check this claim.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 04, 2017 1:31 AM  

I know some folks who are still making shrunken heads, and they have no idea what to do with all the leftover skulls. The only real obstacle is shipping. Have your people call my people if you're interested.

Blogger Tuatha July 04, 2017 2:06 AM  

"Shot several times, left in a ditch somewhere"

Well, excuse me for my lack of patriotism towards a 'country' built by freemasons.

"Next question"

How exactly do you reconcile your fervent nationalism with an oligarchic corporation posing as the nation you love when the 1% prefers you dead in a ¢10 plastic coffin rather than alive and fed for $100?

Blogger Deplorable July 04, 2017 2:39 AM  

One shouldn't have to insult someone, pointing out the flaws in someone else's arguments is all that is needed to show them and anyone watching that they stupid.

that *he stupid

Blogger VD July 04, 2017 3:20 AM  

I hate several things about midwits, which I define as educated folk with IQs of between 120-135.

I think it's more like 110 to 125, but otherwise, yes. Remember, most "smart" people don't score as high as you think they will. 130 is an Oxford or Ivy League professor.

Anonymous Rip his tits off July 04, 2017 3:26 AM  

If this is midwittery, we need to recalibrate the scales.

VD namecalled, and a 110 IQ random Twitter Catholic called him out on it. VD was 100% correct, and simultaneously 100% Asperger.

Also 100% noted was either end of this 100% Twitter fight. I guess if this was important it would have appeared on Gab.ai.

Anonymous Tanjil Bren July 04, 2017 3:53 AM  

"That smug, self-satisfied air they all manage to blithely convey while erroneously "correcting" people never ceases to make me want to erect vast pyramids comprised entirely of average-sized skulls across the landscape."

This.

(By an order of magnitude.)

It's just so...*irritating*.

Anonymous Rip his tits off July 04, 2017 3:55 AM  

Rip his tits off.

Anonymous Stickwick July 04, 2017 4:07 AM  

Rabbi B: *sigh* I miss Sheldona...

I miss you all, too. I wish FB wasn't so evil.

Anonymous Jill July 04, 2017 4:20 AM  

Damn @#$%&%$ Twitter. I forgot I couldn't share your articles there. This one is everything I want to say all the time.

Blogger Dane Prywatne July 04, 2017 4:30 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Blogger Dane Prywatne July 04, 2017 4:39 AM  

https://www.coursera.org/learn/understanding-arguments/lecture/UonGV/what-is-an-argument

1. If you say: "You are stupid" it is not an argument.
2. If you say: "You are wrong, because you are stupid" it is an argument, but it is fallacious, an example of fallacy called "argumentum ad hominem".

So "argumentum ad hominem" is contained in "fallacy arguments" that is contained in "arguments" therefore "argumentum ad hominem" is a part of "arguments"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mathematics)

Anonymous Do you want to live forever? July 04, 2017 4:40 AM  

Come on you apes.

Blogger Happy LP9 July 04, 2017 4:50 AM  

180 Stickwick, I think highly of you, your a great person. Yes, FB is evil like apple to google to the antifa.

Anyhow, I sympathize with smarter people like Vox, SB (etc) those around here. Its sad that Vox has to teach pple so often at twitter or really everywhere, it seems exhausting as a MPAI person (so slow to the game it just appalls me) looking in from the outside.

I reviewed Susan Zaner's feed and was depressed to some degree by her.

But he tried to help so it was productive.

OT: I did email and BCC RE: Greg as he is still at the OK's board of misdirected directors, never heard back from Stewart as its a holiday really. But I noted and photographed Greg is still listed as of 7/3 and today which is a mournful day.

Glad for POTUS but the heretics need educated.

Here is to a day of love compassion peace. Not that it ever works out that way. I dont want a summer of rage or violence or stupidity.

I want virtue, values, good things for America.

I wish stupid ple would not vote but we're stuck.

Anonymous Nobody cares. July 04, 2017 5:07 AM  

Happy LP9 wrote:180 Stickwick, I think highly of you, your a great person. Yes, FB is evil like apple to google to the antifa.

Anyhow, I sympathize with smarter people like Vox, SB (etc) those around here. Its sad that Vox has to teach pple so often at twitter or really everywhere, it seems exhausting as a MPAI person (so slow to the game it just appalls me) looking in from the outside.

I reviewed Susan Zaner's feed and was depressed to some degree by her.

But he tried to help so it was productive.

OT: I did email and BCC RE: Greg as he is still at the OK's board of misdirected directors, never heard back from Stewart as its a holiday really. But I noted and photographed Greg is still listed as of 7/3 and today which is a mournful day.

Glad for POTUS but the heretics need educated.

Here is to a day of love compassion peace. Not that it ever works out that way. I dont want a summer of rage or violence or stupidity.

I want virtue, values, good things for America.

I wish stupid ple would not vote but we're stuck.



Stickwick is kinda nome de pulme.

Blogger VD July 04, 2017 5:09 AM  

VD was 100% correct, and simultaneously 100% Asperger.

It's hardly sperging out to observe that an argument is an argument. FFS, it's actually a freaking tautology.

Who denies a tautology?

Blogger wreckage July 04, 2017 10:12 AM  

Actually, if you can logically tie stupidity to the argument, then "you are stupid" is no longer fallacious, even if it remains a formal fallacy.

Committing a formal fallacy does not render a conclusion incorrect, and if the argument as presented depends on the reliability of its proponent, then attacking their credibility is not fallacious.

Blogger wreckage July 04, 2017 10:15 AM  

THAT, ladies and gentlemen, was sperging!

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar July 04, 2017 10:43 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar July 04, 2017 10:46 AM  

This was a fun-filled thread. I will probably revisit for chuckles.

After some thought, it seems to me that shooting right is sometimes justified.

Perhaps the SoCon's followers will wander in a more beneficial direction.

Blogger SirGroggy July 04, 2017 11:25 AM  

It's hilarious that people can't recognise that argumentum is 'argument' in latin.

It's staring you in the face, midwit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 04, 2017 11:34 AM  

VD wrote:Who denies a tautology?
Stupid people, of course.

Ad hominem is often the correct and most logical response to a logically fallacious argument. i.e.

"You sound gay and your stuff's all retarded" is the proper, logical reply to "All the cool people agree with me."

"You're a cretin" perfectly addresses the ever popular "You can trust me because I'm always right and I never lie."

Blogger John Wright July 04, 2017 12:14 PM  

An invalid argument is not an argument in the same way a cure that fails to cure is not a cure.

People use the word argument both to mean any arguments and to mean valid arguments.

Likewise, people use the word cure both to mean any cures and to mean only cures that work

You are getting worked up over a semantic argument. Which is also not an argument.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar July 04, 2017 1:00 PM  

I think that we are sniping at shibboleths.

Getting worked up adds to the drama.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar July 04, 2017 1:29 PM  

Not to over-analyze here, but when the unfortunate person spoke against using a paticularly effective rhetorical device she had to be destroyed.

She would have been much better off just admitting her error in the beginning.

I wonder who the next target will be?

Blogger VD July 04, 2017 4:14 PM  

People use the word argument both to mean any arguments and to mean valid arguments.

That's fine, but when they mean only valid arguments, they are using the word nonsensically. Because if that were an appropriate use, then it renders the very concept of arguing incoherent, because only the correct person can be presenting an argument.

And if both persons are advocating incorrect positions, neither person is presenting an argument and therefore neither of them can be said to be arguing at all, which effectively destroys the language as we have no word for the not-arguing they are doing nor for the not-arguments they are presenting.

The semantics are not irrelevant here.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop July 04, 2017 4:43 PM  

VD wrote:It's hardly sperging out to observe that an argument is an argument. FFS, it's actually a freaking tautology.

Who denies a tautology?


I'll take that one. The same people who deny that A=A. Tautology Deniers are found in many places- in fake law, for example. If you go to court as yourself, lawyers call it In Propria Persona or Pro Se (these terms have been conflated recently in the ever-shifting legal dictionaries). But a thing cannot "re-present" itself without adding a Not-A quality, the representation itself. It's either you or it isn't you, not {you + a facsimile of you that represents you}. Persona of course means "mask", so the original, Actual-You (A) has become a "proper" representation of a mask of you, while still claiming to be you. I don't know how to write that in math symbols, or even if there are such symbols.

A=A is constantly violated in mathematical physics, too, a process I call "sleight of variables" and "slick substitutions". The illegal algebra of Special Relativity depends on it, for just one example. "It's all relative", they like to say.

Blogger ViciousCreep July 05, 2017 8:53 AM  

From Aristotle.
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/sophist_refut.1.1.html

Anonymous c matt July 05, 2017 12:19 PM  

An argument, in its simplest form, is setting forth a conclusion supported by premises. It does not need to be true or accurate in any sense (hence, good v. bad arguments). If you are proposing a particular conclusion purportedly supported by premises, then you are arguing.

1 – 200 of 202 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts