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Sunday, July 23, 2017

No, you can't be Chinese

Said the Chinese woman who calls herself an American.
A white scholar’s recent op-ed suggests he might need some lessons on his own privilege.

Daniel Bell, a white dean at China’s Shandong University, recently penned a piece in the Wall Street Journal entitled “Why Anyone Can Be Chinese.” In it, he laments how he’s not considered Chinese despite his self-proclaimed dedication to the culture.

China, he argues, should look at identity as cultural rather than racial, concluding the piece with his ultimate hope:

“President Xi Jinping describes his broad agenda for the country as the ‘China dream,’” Bell writes. “My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese.”

Bell claims to have respect for the Chinese. But his piece shows that he’s not looking at identity through the lens of the Chinese, John Kuo Wei Tchen, associate professor and director of Asian/Pacific/American Institute, NYU, told HuffPost.

Bell begins his piece, making comparisons between himself and a Chinese-American who “doesn’t speak Chinese or identify in any way with Chinese culture,” and “forcefully rejects” the label “Chinese.”

But the connections Bell makes are apples to oranges. Bell, a white man from Canada, ignores the real, human experiences that Chinese people live through, Tchen noted.

Bell isn’t someone whose family has been brought up in China through generations, communicating through insider references. His ancestors haven’t lived through events like the Opium Wars or the Cultural Revolution that have shaped the population’s outlook. Bell is a white man whose roots and values come from elsewhere.
Do you see, civic nationalists, what chaos and confusion inevitably must follow your incoherent madness? You denied that America was an actual nation, thinking that the nonsense would magically stop there. But it didn't, and now we're seeing your fellow proposition nationalists claim that England and Sweden have always been nations of immigrants, and that anyone can be Chinese as well as American.

The truth is that civic nationalism is a lie. Proposition nationalism is a lie. There is no melting pot and nations are groups of genetically related people sharing a common language, common traditions, common religion, and common experiences.

Everything else is just empire and ethnic conflict by another name. A reader who lives in China, but unlike the deranged academic, does not claim that makes him Chinese, adds his observations.


One of your daily readers here. I live in China and I'm writing to share some observations that you might find of interest. There have been some comments recently about the foundations of national identity on your site, which involve common language, blood, religion, and traditions or customs. A comparison of China and the US in light of this shows that they are moving in almost opposite directions, the former toward unification and the latter toward disintegration.

China is "diverse" in the sense that there are multiple ethnicities that reside within its borders. What's more, every province has its own dialect of the Chinese language, many of which are unintelligible to outsiders. People from Hunan Province speak "Hunan language" which is very different from Guangdong language which is very different from Shanghai language and so on. However, the state surmounts this problem by the institution of Mandarin (Putonghua, which means "common language") as the official language of the nation, which everyone in every province is required to learn. Even Hong Kong people are now required to learn it since the handover, whereas before there was very little Mandarin spoken there. Contrast this to America's increasing multilingualism, bilingual education programs, and the view of many people that we "can't have an official language." The only multilingualism that the Chinese are interested in is having large numbers of their educated people learn English, and this is for purely pragmatic reasons.

The dominant ethnic majority is of course the Han, and most Chinese would regard them as the standard of what it means to be Chinese. Of the other ethnic groups, there don't seem to be too many feelings of separateness, with the exceptions of the Tibetans and the Uighur people in Xinjiang. In both cases, religious differences are a key factor of why this exists. The Chinese government deals with this dissent and disagreement in their usual way - they crush it. Of the people who live within Chinese territory, they are taught that they are Chinese and that they owe their allegiance to the state and its rulers. Of those who do not reside in China, they are all "foreigners" (laowai) if not "foreign devils" (yang guizi). They particularly hate the Japanese because multiple generations have been raised on propaganda about the Sino-Japanese war i.e. WW2.

Contrast this Han standardization to the extreme denigration of America's former core identity, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

Their immigration policy reflects this distinction between "us" and "them." People that are not ethnically Chinese simply CANNOT become Chinese. In any way. Ever. You can get a visa for an extended stay, through work or marriage, but you cannot become a citizen, which means that you get zero state benefits. There are foreigners that have worked here for decades, some of whom have even made important contributions to Chinese society in one way or another, who will nonetheless only be able to retire in China on their own dime, if they are allowed to stay at all. On the other hand, ethnic Chinese in the diaspora can be granted Chinese citizenship, if they renounce whatever other citizenship they have, since China does not allow dual citizenship. Contrast this to American immigration policies and multicultural ideology.

As for common religion, this is perhaps their weakest link, since they're officially atheist, though somewhat tolerant of religion. Christianity is growing here, and they're worried about it, both because they see it as Western, and because it's subversive (from their perspective of maintaining their own power). The state under Xi Jinping (by the way, his name is pronounced like the English pronoun "she") has been promoting Confucianism again, which isn't really a religion, but is one of the "three traditions" of China along with Buddhism and Taoism. Some Chinese are "cultural Buddhists" the way Americans are "cultural Christians," but for the most part they seem to be an irreligious people. The state seems most comfortable promoting Chinese identity as the highest metaphysic, but they're willing to include watered-down versions of their historic religions within that identity. The anti-religion of the Mao years was even more severe than the anti-Christianity of contemporary America, but the Chinese seem to be recovering from the worst of it.

The somewhat disparate customs and traditions of the different regions in the country are easily homogenized by television and the internet, which gives the same "culture" to everyone. What they worry about in this regard is the influence of foreign media, both cultural and academic. Foreign films are officially banned except for those that are given permission (and censored beforehand) but realistically they're all available on the internet and pirate dvd shops, which are everywhere in every major city. However, their own film and television industry is YUGE, and increasingly it is Hollywood that kowtows to Beijing in order to have access to this market. Chinese-made films tend to be incredibly nationalistic, as opposed to Hollywood films (can we really call them "American" films?) which are often subversive and degenerate in one way or another. Where the Chinese have a weakness here is that, while they are incredibly sensitive to negative portrayals of China, and make their censorship decisions largely based on that, they are not as wise to the influence of cultural degeneracy that comes packaged in Hollywood films. You can already see the effects of it on the younger generations. Nonetheless, coming from America, it's remarkable how much less degeneracy there is here at present.

So - one country, one people, one language. They know that this means strength, and so it's what they're working towards, and have been for decades now.

One last thing - their economic nationalism. Despite being in the WTO for almost twenty years, China is protectionist and aggressively privileges their own businesses over those of foreigners. Part of the reason why Facebook and Google and Twitter are blocked here (along with Vox Popoli!) is that it forces Chinese people to use the local alternatives (which are also, of course, censored and controlled by the state). So Baidu is the go-to search engine, Weibo and QQ and WeChat are the social media giants. It keeps the money in China. Zuckerberg was here last year, pleading to have Facebook unblocked. Xi met with him, and said simply, "No." Why should they let them in, when it will mean loss of revenue for Chinese companies AND likely use by foreign agents to foment dissent and problems, as in the Arab Spring?

I'm not trying to shill for the Chinese. I live here, and I see their problems at the ground level. I could write a whole other piece on that. But I can't help but notice that, in regards to the above, they're doing a lot of things right, and they're exactly the things that the West is doing wrong. What that will mean in the future remains to be seen.

Labels:

139 Comments:

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 23, 2017 11:32 AM  

It is almost like mental illness is a prerequisite to a career in academia.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 23, 2017 11:34 AM  

Apparently the other reason elites preach equalism is so they can jump from one sinking ship to the next.

Anonymous kfg July 23, 2017 11:37 AM  

Dear Mr. Bell,

You have to go back.

Anonymous B July 23, 2017 11:41 AM  

I guess if enough people do this even the normies will start seeing how ridiculous it is.

OpenID paworldandtimes July 23, 2017 11:45 AM  

"Bell, a white man from Canada, ignores the real, human experiences that Chinese people live through"

The thought is always reducible to "human." And yes, that's in implicit opposition to "not-human" which is "not-us." It comes down to that with everyone's hindbrain, our own no less so.

PA

Blogger Sherwood family July 23, 2017 11:46 AM  

Exactly. Watching these same ideas play out in other contexts is a potent demonstration of their absurdity. Because Normies know, instinctively, that you cannot become Chinese. But since nobody tries they do not realize how ridiculous it is. And by analogy how silly the proposition nation is as attempted in the West.

Blogger Sherwood family July 23, 2017 11:55 AM  

The pertinent question is when is Tchen going back? After all, his ancestors did not come over with the Mayflower. They did not tame the wilderness or fight the Red Indians to expand their territory. His ancestors did not live in log cabins or sod houses. His people did not fight the British for independence or take part in the Civil War. Tchen is not someone whose family has been brought up in America through generations, communicating through insider references.

Blogger pyrrhus July 23, 2017 11:58 AM  

Apparently, Bell didn't notice China's very simple immigration policy. Loyal Han Chinese only, others will be used as organ donors....

Anonymous Stryker4570 July 23, 2017 12:04 PM  

Have a friend with a wife of Chinese descent. She is totally Americanized, doesn't speak Chinese, American mannerisms etc. They visited China on vacation. At the border they waved her through without looking at her papers. When she asked, the guards said "You are Han. You can come in."

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( more Natural Born Kekistani than if my mother was a native of Moorhead MN and my father came from Cockram Mill VA ... so to speak ) July 23, 2017 12:07 PM  

all you bitches need to understand, Kekistan isn't just the Original Proposition Nation ( ancient Egypt knew about Kek https://infogalactic.com/info/Kuk_%28mythology%29 )
...
it's the ONLY Proposition Nation.

all the rest of you are just Fake Proposition Nations, pretending to be Kekistani.

suck it.

Anonymous Crow King July 23, 2017 12:09 PM  

Actually, traditionally and historically China was a great melting pot and anyone really could be Chinese as long as they embraced the culture. This was the official Chinese position for millenia. Maybe you couldn't be Chinese in a generation, but you could soon.

Like all cultures which see themselves as the default human culture and as the center of the universe, the idea that anyone could be Chinese - indeed, should be - was central to official Chinese ideology.

And indeed, over time the Chinese assimilated countless people's. It's a myth that the "Han" are a pure race. Even Jews who settled in China became utterly sinicized, the only culture known to have completely assimilated its Jews, despite a vast ethnic divide. This was possible, clearly, because of the openness of Chinese culture.

Today, the idea of the melting pot is rejected and we have multicultiralism instead - that's suicidal and will lead to strife. But if we had a single unifying principle, culture, religion, etc - that everyone would be expected to assimilate to, immigration of different ethnic groups would be fine. But we have the opposite, so its crazy.

Otherwise if we had an empire different groups could live well together. But of course we have multiculturalism instead.

When I look at the history of the world, it seems to me ethnic divisions are one of the lesser divisions mankind fights about - the bloodiest and most vicious wars are always civil wars of some kind between people of the same ethnicity. The Russian Revolution, the French Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, the Thirty Years War, Pol Pot - ethnic conflict is peanuts compared to this stuff.

We always hate our brother who is like us far more than anyone else.

That's why I'm not really concerned about ethnic conflict so much, altho in the current context it will be a reality - historically, ethnic conflict was far less of a big deal than brother against brother who were disuinted by some ideology.

The focus on ethnic conflict on this site seems bizarre and ahistorical - but we will see.

Blogger Sheila4g July 23, 2017 12:17 PM  

@9 Stryker4570: " Have a friend with a wife of Chinese descent. She is totally Americanized, doesn't speak Chinese, American mannerisms etc."

Oh sure, she's absolutely utterly American. Until she becomes a tiger mother, or her husband says anything critical of the Chinese as a people, or until her children have to check a particular racial box for something. Too many still confuse protective coloring/camouflage as reality. Reminds me of Sailer's commenter who calls himself "Twinkie." He thinks he's being ironic, and talks about his White wife/children and totally White lifestyle, but while he may oppose certain aspects of Chinese politics and nationalism, he would never be genuinely anti-Chinese overall.

Blogger rcocean July 23, 2017 12:20 PM  

The idea that China is a "melting pot" is absurd. Its like someone stating England is a "nation of immigrants". Hundreds of years ago, the Chinese decided they were not interested in either expanding their empire or letting in foreigners. The West FORCED the Chinese to trade with them (just like they did with Japan). Evidently the Chinese have decided that 1 Billion is enough.

Looking at the Chinese example, the insane stupidity of our ancestors becomes plain. With an almost empty continent, they chose to bring over hundred of thousands of African slaves, because they didn't want to pick their own cotton.

Blogger traderdoc July 23, 2017 12:21 PM  

Fred Reed, who should know better, is due to put hit in the face with these facts. Maybe he went senile.

https://fredoneverything.org/working-toward-tripartite-racial-disunity-maybe-not-a-really-great-idea/

Blogger Sheila4g July 23, 2017 12:26 PM  

@11 Crow King: "When I look at the history of the world, it seems to me ethnic divisions are one of the lesser divisions mankind fights about - the bloodiest and most vicious wars are always civil wars of some kind between people of the same ethnicity. The Russian Revolution, the French Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, the Thirty Years War, Pol Pot - ethnic conflict is peanuts compared to this stuff."

The Russian Revolution was not particularly Russian against Russian - it was far more Jew versus Russian or, in the case of collectivization, Jew versus Ukrainian. The history of the secret police and who/whom tells us who prevailed, at least for a number of decades and at the cost of hundreds of thousands of Russian lives.

"But if we had a single unifying principle, culture, religion, etc - that everyone would be expected to assimilate to, immigration of different ethnic groups would be fine."

We tried that - perhaps you're familiar with the melting pot myth expounded by Israel Zangwill and company? A VERY small number of people can, in time, be assimilated by a very confident and assertive majority. The world's genetic history clearly demonstrates this, with certain vanished or at least vanquished people's DNA remaining only in the conquered, maternal side. To think otherwise is to be a proud civic nationalist - so why are you here?

Blogger VD July 23, 2017 12:27 PM  

Compromise your identity, compromise your intellect. It is an eminently reliable predictor.

It's rather amusing what mental gyrations people will go through simply because Grandpappy boffed a foreigner, Daughter Dear is a mudshark, or Cousin Sue adopted two Nigerians.

Blogger alt-deplorable.jezko July 23, 2017 12:33 PM  

On which side of 105 does this chi*k fall?

Anonymous Reenay July 23, 2017 12:39 PM  

Crow King crows the usual platitudes of civic nationalism without really understanding that his platitudes actually point to the exact opposite of his intended message. Even if we accept at face value the truthfulness of what he said, we see the end result is a collective Han people that recognize other Han people and are highly xenophobic of non-Han people. It doesn't matter if you're a race of mongrels or not; a race of mongrels will still recognize other members of that race of mongrels.

What we see in mixed-race people in majority-monoracial countries (e.g. half-black/half-white in America or Europe) is generally a sense of disconnectedness and rootlessness. They know they don't really belong with whites because they don't look white, and whites don't look like them. They also don't belong with blacks because blacks recognize that they have a strong white admixture, and black culture generally emphasizes that blacks avoid acting white as much as possible, even to their own detriment (e.g. whites work hard and study STEM, so don't do that, that's "acting white"). Even for half-Mexicans, they get that same sense of disconnect and rootlessness.

Now, if you had a colony that consisted of only half-white/half-blacks, or a colony of only half-Mexicans, or a colony of half-white/half-Chinese, you'd see what essentially became Mexico; a new race born from mongrelization. That race will still be racist in favor of its own kind. That is human nature.

We merely ask that you begin respecting human nature with respect to the European genotypes. After all, you do it for the other genotypes. Why not Europeans?

Anonymous badhairday July 23, 2017 12:42 PM  

His ancestors haven’t lived through events like the Opium Wars

-Mine did. We shelled the shit out of those uppity heathens.

Gags aside, is this an attempt to make the opium wars and the cultural revolution into a Chinese holocaust?

Anonymous BBGKB July 23, 2017 12:47 PM  

and the view of many people that we "can't have an official language."

Because the vast majority of non Asian minorities are too stupid to learn another language or read their native tongue. Taking a translation dictionary to point at a word like I did in europe wont work in black/brown nations.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 23, 2017 12:47 PM  

Oh, I was confused.

From the style, I thought Mr. Bell might be an avatar of Godfrey Elfwick.

I think everyone assumes that the 21st and maybe 22nd centuries will be China's oyster. The problem is, there won’t be a bunch of rich Rothschilds, Pritzgers, Bushes, etc. busy staying rich as kings behind Bejing's curtains.

The Western Elites who think they'll run China are too inbred to think straight. China's ascendancy will not look like anything in the Western world's history books.

The West faces a trip through the valley of shadows...of its own people's making.

We get the system we ask for, and apparently deserve to get it good and hard.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. July 23, 2017 12:49 PM  

OT: Coming to a convenience store near you: Nigger Drank.

From the makers of Kikey O'Krisp cereal.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 23, 2017 12:53 PM  

It's rather amusing what mental gyrations people will go through

And it will be equally amusing to see their about-face when social conditions change.

In just a few short years today's contortions for inclusiveness will likely be replaced by violent exclusion.

Anonymous Grayman July 23, 2017 12:53 PM  

No one sane wishes for war and collapse along with the 10's of millions if not 100's of million that will die in the west.....
But TPTB fail to grasp what a cathartic release it will be for the right to have free reign to rise up and slaughter the invading masses, reveling in the blood lust and carnage, artisan of death and machine. And the reprisals against the right will only make them stronger, with an ever greater thirst to see the invaders ground to dust beneath them.
Meanwhile few on the left have any concept of the wave of death, chaos and famine that they have given birth to through their worship of mammon and nihilism.
The west will not hear the lamentations of their women, for their women shall fall first to ensure that these invaders don't rise again in a generation. The west will only hear the howl of wind through the burned out ghettos with nothing but bones and ashes left of those who would see the west perish.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( more Natural Born Kekistani than if my mother was a native of Moorhead MN and my father came from Cockram Mill VA ... so to speak ) July 23, 2017 12:54 PM  

14. traderdoc July 23, 2017 12:21 PM
Fred Reed, who should know better,



Willis, what you talkin bout? Fred has been pro-La Raza for going on a decade now.

he lives in Mexico, he's got a Mexican wife, he's got a Mexican step-daughter. he's spending his retirement checks ( YOUR tax money ) in Mexico.

he damn near prefers Mexicans to his own flesh and blood daughter.


YOU are the one who ought to know better. Fred Reed has been *for* Mexican immigration and illegals since i've been aware of him.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 23, 2017 12:56 PM  

@ PA, some of us are clearly more in touch with our hindbrains, no? (Grin)

Anonymous Johnny Mayonnaise July 23, 2017 1:03 PM  

I read Yam's piece twice. In several sections it's unclear whether:

(a) she's stating her own opinion, and expects us to discern that through her lousy writing;

(b) she's inept at providing attribution;

(c) she wants us to believe it's Tchen who's speaking, when in fact it's her, hiding behind him.

More likely it's (d) all of the above ...

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 23, 2017 1:04 PM  

The reader's description of Chinese identity policy is a near-perfect expression of fascism. The only thing it's missing is the rediscovery of pagan metaphysics and the re-institution of the mandate of heaven (i.e. divine command via god emperor).

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 23, 2017 1:04 PM  

Divine command morality, that is.

Blogger Sam July 23, 2017 1:07 PM  

@11
The Chinese were still majority Han during that time and they assimilated ethnically closely related groups. It is a bit like the process where France or Germany was brought into being.

It is nothing like trying to form a country out of the population of Europe, or the population of the planet.

Blogger James July 23, 2017 1:24 PM  

This is part of the religious nature of those that promote the "human race". They can tell that negroes, Chinese, Indians (dot or woo woo) look different, but that is only external. On the inside, they are all the same!!!??? This is due, among other things, to the "historical fact" that everyone descended from the same two ancestors. First of all, at best it is theory and religion, not fact. Whether or not everyone descended from Lucy and her "companion/companions", and her children then inbred for generations, or they descended from Noah and his sons, this is nothing that the "we all bleed red" crowd would allow you to use as an argument if the shoe were on the other foot.

Why physiologically different groups, with completely different temperaments, completely different intellects, and completely different histories of accomplishments are required to be the same in non-measureable traits, like psychological nature or spiritual nature, is ludicrous to me. But, the left can never recognize their own hypocrisy. They need to destroy religions, but will fight to the death to impose their "one true religion" on everyone else.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction July 23, 2017 1:31 PM  

You missed his point

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 23, 2017 1:35 PM  

Bell can't be Chinese for the same reasom Yam can't be American.

Blogger kurt9 July 23, 2017 1:36 PM  

The situation is the same for Japan and South Korea (North Korea remains the "hermit kingdom"). A white person can live for years or even decades in Japan, married to a Japanese person, and can never "naturalize" as a Japanese citizen. I lived there for 10 years (1990's), fit in well with the culture, and never for a single instant considered myself "Japanese". I know a lot of gaijin that couldn't handle being "locked out" in this manner. For me, it never bothered me in the least. The NYT or some other pointy head figure of the U.S. establishment will rant about how Japan (generally) does not allow for immigration and does not take in "refugees". The people who write this stuff have never been to and lived in Japan.

The Japanese are Japanese, the Koreans Koreans, and the Han Chinese Han Chinese. That's just the way it is.

Blogger dvdivx July 23, 2017 1:47 PM  

Racial checkmarks and diversity only exist to eliminate whites. Other races get it and have no problems separating themselves out even amongst asians. Chinese can be very racist against Vietnamese or Koreans same with Japanese vs Chinese and Koreans. They don't talk about it publicly but in private it can all come out. Japanese from Brazil for example are aloud to return to Japan but foreigners no chance. Only white people have this sickness of there are no races and the media along with ((the tribe)) push this crap. Only whites however swallow this poison pill.

Blogger ZhukovG July 23, 2017 2:00 PM  

I felt much more 'at home' when I was stationed in the United Kingdom(1980s) than I did when stationed on Guam, an 'American' Pacific territory.

Toward the end of my stay in the UK my British friends even admitted I was learning to speak passable English.

Blogger Crusader Corim July 23, 2017 2:03 PM  

I need to point out that the Chinese are importing substantial amounts of African labor because they stupidly believe nonsense that is spouted by leftists.

They are at basically the same point the American colonies were at in the 1600s.

"Well, we'll import a few Africans to work our fields so that we don't have to, but we won't give them any rights"

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2017 2:03 PM  

> The focus on ethnic conflict on this site seems bizarre and ahistorical - but we will see.

We live in bizarre and ahistorical times.

> I think everyone assumes that the 21st and maybe 22nd centuries will be China's oyster.

They built their power on the backs of the American consumer with cheap exports. What will happen when America no longer can or no longer chooses to buy those exports?

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 23, 2017 2:06 PM  

OT:  The latest phenomenon of the left eating its own is "trans-dykes".  This is HILARIOUS.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/transdykes-the-anti-lesbian-antifa/

Anonymous two sentries July 23, 2017 2:11 PM  

"Actually, traditionally and historically China was a great melting pot and anyone really could be Chinese as long as they embraced the culture."

If I recall correctly, An Lushan was of Turkic/Sogdian origin. He was made a powerful general, then staffed the T'ang army with non-Han generals, largely Turkic. He then instigated the An Lushan Rebellion, which pretty much ruined what had been up til then the most advanced civilization the world had ever seen.

"But if we had a single unifying principle, culture, religion, etc - that everyone would be expected to assimilate to, immigration of different ethnic groups would be fine."

It wouldn't be fine for White people, not at all. The inevitable miscegenation would lead either to ethnic civil war, or else the eventual disappearance of the White race. When it comes to coupling, White + non-White = non-White. Racially, culturally, identity-wise.

Submitted for your approval: one Barack Obama. Half-Black, half-White, his Black father abandoned him nearly immediately, and he was raised by his White grandparents, attended expensive White schools, was fawned over without merit at White academies and universities, and identified as, and made policy about and for... Blacks.

Extrapolate times umpty-ziillion .





Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass July 23, 2017 2:20 PM  

"Bell isn’t someone whose family has been brought up in China through generations, communicating through insider references. His ancestors haven’t lived through events like the Opium Wars or the Cultural Revolution that have shaped the population’s outlook. Bell is a white man whose roots and values come from elsewhere. "

"The pertinent question is when is Tchen going back? After all, his ancestors did not come over with the Mayflower. They did not tame the wilderness or fight the Red Indians to expand their territory. His ancestors did not live in log cabins or sod houses. His people did not fight the British for independence or take part in the Civil War. Tchen is not someone whose family has been brought up in America through generations, communicating through insider references."

@7 Exactly. Both he and Miss Yam have to go back. They were not here for the war of 1812, the Civil War, etc. They do not speak frankly like we do. Their's is a face saving culture.

"Oh sure, she's absolutely utterly American. Until she becomes a tiger mother, or her husband says anything critical of the Chinese as a people, or until her children have to check a particular racial box for something. Too many still confuse protective coloring/camouflage as reality. Reminds me of Sailer's commenter who calls himself "Twinkie." He thinks he's being ironic, and talks about his White wife/children and totally White lifestyle, but while he may oppose certain aspects of Chinese politics and nationalism, he would never be genuinely anti-Chinese overall."

@12 Yep. Twinkles are yellow on the outside and white on the inside.

"Looking at the Chinese example, the insane stupidity of our ancestors becomes plain. With an almost empty continent, they chose to bring over hundred of thousands of African slaves, because they didn't want to pick their own cotton."

@13 My grandpa once sent me an email that read we should've picked our own cotton.

"Fred Reed, who should know better, is due to put hit in the face with these facts. Maybe he went senile."

@14 I could only read half of that before closing it. He takes the Mexican POV by using the words Río Bravo. Actual estimates vary from 12-40 million. Mexicans with bumper stickers in Los Angeles reading "F you this is still Mexico" and that small sliver given back to Mexico in the 70s, they put a gigantic flag up, speak that they are not friendly. What about all of those Mexican gangs that essentially control Brownsville, McAllen, etc.? Fred is either assimilated, senile, or both.

"and the view of many people that we 'can't have an official language.,

Because the vast majority of non Asian minorities are too stupid to learn another language or read their native tongue. Taking a translation dictionary to point at a word like I did in europe wont work in black/brown nations.

@20 They are too afraid of being called racist. What never ceases to amaze me about relatives who don't speak foreign languages, like I do, or have been outside of the US extensively, like I have, is they think the whole world just like us. Outside of the US race matters as do other things.

Blogger sykes.1 July 23, 2017 2:22 PM  

A number of years ago, when I was still teaching engineering, we had a number of native Taiwanese, native Chinese, and Chinese-American students. During one faculty/student mixer a Chinese-American woman stated that her parents would allow her to marry anyone with the proviso that he be ABC = American Borne Chinese.

Chinese self identity may not be as uniform as some think.

Anonymous Pennywise July 23, 2017 2:38 PM  

Sherwood Family...

"The pertinent question is when is Tchen going back?"

Never, for most normies are exactly like her, who realize it has yet to be definitively proven that nations only consist groups of genetically related people.

Blogger Sherwood family July 23, 2017 2:40 PM  

The article has a point. If these terms are floating around about everyone and everything then who so really going to care about them? If you can have a Honkey burger, Nigger Drank while watching the Red Skins who etc. then who really cares. I mean we already have a restaurant like that: Cracker Barrel. Sounds like a racial epithet to me.

Blogger VD July 23, 2017 2:51 PM  

Never, for most normies are exactly like her, who realize it has yet to be definitively proven that nations only consist groups of genetically related people.

That's why ethnic cleansing has never taken place anywhere, because it has yet to be definitively proven that nations only consist groups of genetically related people.

You are almost remarkably stupid. Seriously, your level of knowledge doesn't even rise to that of an elementary school dictionary.

This really is not the blog for you.

Blogger Sheila4g July 23, 2017 2:53 PM  

@42 sykes.1: " During one faculty/student mixer a Chinese-American woman stated that her parents would allow her to marry anyone with the proviso that he be ABC = American Borne Chinese."

No one here is unaware of exceptions; we're merely highly aware that they are just that, and in no way represent the norm. Just as no one here pretends there aren't differences between generations. Sure, your example's parents want her to marry another ABC. She may well do that, given the sheer number of them here and the highly ethnocentric communities they form. However, women (Asian women, in particular, are very aware of racial hierarchies and social and financial worth) don't always or even often marry to suit their parents. Surely you've seen/read of all the Chinese and Indian and Negro women who write anti-White screeds while having a White husband at their back.

It's irrelevant if the Chinese or Jewish or Mestizo cohort in America is monolithic. Pattern recognition and history tells us what's important, and it's rarely the exceptions.

Blogger Sherwood family July 23, 2017 2:55 PM  

Most Normies do not realize much of anything. That is why we call them Normies. When they realize they are not Normies any more. What people do not understand is a thing called a preference cascade where everyone agrees that X is the way things are and Y is not acceptable until suddenly Y intrudes and everyone decides that they really liked Y all along now that it seems like it is okay with enough people or with the cool kids. It is how the Cathedral has moved their agenda forward but those who think the ratchet only ever turns one way have not been paying attention because it is starting to turn back in a way that has not been possible for the last fifty years. When this thing unwinds you will be really surprised at where the Overton window is going to finally settle.

Blogger Kristophr July 23, 2017 3:16 PM  

You will never be Chinese:
https://youtu.be/Y2_L71lFItk

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco July 23, 2017 3:26 PM  

"A reader who lives in Chinese,..."

Typo.

Anonymous BBGKB July 23, 2017 3:29 PM  

the Chinese are importing substantial amounts of African labor because they stupidly believe nonsense that is spouted by leftists

The Chinese are willing to kill blacks that go on strike, I don't think they will have a problem

The latest phenomenon of the left eating its own is "trans-dykes". This is HILARIOUS.

No one hates women as much as other women.

Anonymous bobdobbs July 23, 2017 3:34 PM  

it's trite and well worn out, perhaps, but let's remember that the big O is half Irish, mostly half Kenyan-Arab and fractionally sub-saharan Black. Likwise, it also is important to remember that Kenyan Arabs are very proud they aren't sub-saharan Black.

The big O's ancestors (caught and sold) slaves or (bought and whipped) slaves. (Slave farmers and Farm slavers, respectively.)

He's nothing but a political slut.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer July 23, 2017 3:44 PM  

In 500, maybe even 1000, years from now, China will still be. The USA is disenegrating in real time before our eyes and will not survive my grandson's life time.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 23, 2017 3:54 PM  

Weeaboo doesn't exactly apply here.

Cheeaboo?

Blogger tz July 23, 2017 3:59 PM  

Who is the group today most interested in restoring the Constitution? Who is the group that is most descended from the English?
Same answer: The Mormons. Even to the point of their self-sufficiency and missionaries.

I watch, sadly, as John C Wright attempts to explain or define the "proposition" - I'm not sure I truly understand but can only grasp the ancient greek word "isonomia" which I expect more people here know the definition of than on his own blog, and I have retorts which I will save because it proves enough that the proposition itself is either different for each one claiming the proposition, or is so abstract as to be almost meaningless, or is insufficient. I can't imagine Somalis managing to make it work even if they understood it. I can't imagine Mormons failing to recreate it even if they lost all records.

The only competitor to ethno-nationalism might be cultural nationalism, which might be "civic", but deeper. Perhaps Ameriboo (see Vox's post of that title if you don't understand the reference). Even this post points out religion - cult defines culture.

And I think the proposition is opposed to the nation. A Christian nation might make exceptions for Jews they would not make for Muslims, but lets take isonomia - equality under the law - literally. Do we let parents mutilate their children's genitals or not? Male Circumcision and FGM. Allow both or neither with the force of law. What does the proposition say?

Solzhenitsyn noted the line between good and evil ran through each man's heart. Not outside of us. No law can change hearts, they can only run a blade or bullet through it.

Even Molyneux has realized this. He'd rather live among Constitutional Christians than his fellow libertarian atheists. Reason v.s. evidence and he chooses evidence.

Finally, I think there is an ethno-cultural distance as to whom can be assimilated and how fast. The Poles seem to have figured out things and might be more Jeffersonian than we will be. The UK acquired an empire and was infected with strange diseases and parasites, and the US with its empire is following. There is also a difference between accepting 0.1% actual Rothbardian Catholic Japanese here, and whatever. Under ethno-nationalism, they would be considered strange looking whites. Under civic nationalism, they would be under identity politics.

Blogger tz July 23, 2017 4:04 PM  

@45 In Genesis, the "Table of Nations" named the original male progenitor of the entire nation. They were scattered at Babel, but each had its own language. The Bible says Nations are based on genetics. And at the other end, Revelation mentions the Nations, not just Jews and the goyim brown blob. It even mentions Gog and Magog, not some institution.

Blogger DonReynolds July 23, 2017 4:04 PM  

Civic Nationalism is not only a Lie, but it rests completely on the childish notion that you can CHOOSE to be anything you like when you grow up.....and change your mind later, as often as you wish.

As children grow into adults, they soon find out that they simply cannot choose to be a NFL tackle when they grow up, or a US Senator, or a firefighter, or a great mathematician. Nor can a white American choose to be Chinese, or Eskimo, or a Negro. Choices are somewhat more limited and children find this out (usually) by the time they enter high school.

No Virginia, YOU cannot BE whatever you like when you grow up. You were born to whatever you are.

Blogger Gospace July 23, 2017 4:08 PM  

kurt9 July 23, 2017 1:36 PM
The situation is the same for Japan and South Korea (North Korea remains the "hermit kingdom"). A white person can live for years or even decades in Japan, married to a Japanese person, and can never "naturalize" as a Japanese citizen.


You forgot to mention that there are Koreans in Japan who speak only Japanese whose families have been in Japan for generations- and they're not Japanese citizens, with the rights of Japanese citizenship in Japan, they're Korean. I can tell the difference between Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. Most of the people I know, who've never been around Asians, can't. But then, if I went to the British Isles, I couldn't tell the difference between Welsh, English, Scottish, and Irish, but they can at a glance. Wasn't until I moved to where I am now, with a lot of people of Italian descent, that I actually recognized what a Roman nose was. Pretty accurate way of telling at a glance if someone has Italian ancestry.

Anonymous BBGKB July 23, 2017 4:09 PM  

Even Molyneux has realized this. He'd rather live among Constitutional Christians than his fellow libertarian atheists.

I was willing to flee the gayborhood


14 Traderdoc the best part of Fred Cuck Reed's story:

"But one thing I believe to be sure: Constantly attacking forty million American citizens as stupid, dirty, disease-ridden, criminal, given to rape and all the rest, will not make for domestic tranquility."

Look (((Fake News))) has not been reporting their crimes but it has not made things better. Is he seriously proposing mestizos will behave worse if we notice? Just because Reed bought a 22 handgun at the only store in Mexico that legally sells guns he thinks its just like America.

Blogger kurt9 July 23, 2017 4:26 PM  

You forgot to mention that there are Koreans in Japan who speak only Japanese whose families have been in Japan for generations- and they're not Japanese citizens, with the rights of Japanese citizenship in Japan, they're Korean.

Correct. It took them long enough to get such citizenship, which they got during the 90's while I was living there. As you say, they are culturally Japanese and being Korean, are genetically very similar to the Japanese. This is a totally different situation than myself, or the idiot academic that Vox has written about here.

Most Japanese, including my wife, do not want immigration into Japan. However, if its necessary, they prefer Koreans and, yes, Chinese; since all three groups are similar to each other and are "toyo-jin". Toyojin are preferable to non-toyojin as immigrants. One recent notable exception is that Japan is allowing Christian Indonesians long term visas to live in Japan. This is being done somewhat quietly as the UN makes a big fuss about discrimination on the basis of religion in immigration policy.

Anonymous Sr. Globalismus July 23, 2017 4:27 PM  

America, unlike other nations, is not actually a nation. It's the un-nation.

Anyone can be American because Statue of Liberty. Only Chinamen can be Chinese, hence Great Wall.

Blogger Cecil Henry July 23, 2017 5:12 PM  

These cucks and liars INSIST on not getting it.

Its the anti-White scam called White Genocide.

It goes like this:

Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White countries for Everyone!!

So China for the Chinese, sure!! But America is anything (or nothing) you choose!!!


So until you stand up and say no to it, and no to this faux 'civic' nationalism, you are contemptible.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 23, 2017 5:21 PM  

@37 Crusader Corim
They are at basically the same point the American colonies were at in the 1600s.

"Well, we'll import a few Africans to work our fields so that we don't have to, but we won't give them any rights"
---

I can hear the mournful voices working the fields now
"Sring row shreet chariyot, comin fo to carry me home"

Blogger Midnight Avenue J July 23, 2017 5:27 PM  

Sling row shreet rickashaw...

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club July 23, 2017 5:28 PM  

the Chinese are importing substantial amounts of African labor because they stupidly believe nonsense that is spouted by leftists

No, it's because they recognize cheap labor with little political consciousness (or much consciousness at all). I can gear-ron-tee there will be not Chinese civil war about the "rights" of African imports. They'll be shat out if the trouble they make exceeds their usefulness, and the Han won't give a wet slap if the rest of the world gibbers and moans about it.

Blogger Crusader Corim July 23, 2017 5:49 PM  

I realize you guys are having fun proclaiming that the Chinese are psychopathic monsters who will murder-kill all of their cheap labor at the instant it becomes inconvenient without realizing that so were white Europeans in the Caribbean and the New World for over a hundred years.

Look up how brutally the slaves were repressed in Haiti, the Carolinas, etc.

Yet here we are.

Anonymous Nibiru July 23, 2017 5:49 PM  

@22. I recall several years ago when a Belgian distillery tried to market its` brand of voldka, `Black Death`, in the US. The NAACP raised so much hell that the Patent Office made the distillery change the name to `Top Hat`.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 23, 2017 5:52 PM  

@65 Crusader Corim
Yet here we are.
---

Shtir fry don't bother me
Stir fry don't bother me
shtir fry don't bother me
cause I berongs to some bod ee

Blogger Crusader Corim July 23, 2017 5:55 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:@65 Crusader Corim

Yet here we are.

---

Shtir fry don't bother me

Stir fry don't bother me

shtir fry don't bother me

cause I berongs to some bod ee


Alright, now that was funny.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer July 23, 2017 5:57 PM  

So, no Chinese ebonics?

Blogger pyrrhus July 23, 2017 5:57 PM  

@65 Commenters are forgetting that China and Japan have millennia old civilizations which regard non-Asians as gaijin, or loosely, "foreign devils." And to this day, they regard Africans as little better than sub-humans. Chinese or Japanese who married blacks, if that ever happens, will be completely ostracized. And remember that they don't have a Christian "guilt" society, but rather are concerned only with shame. So the only problem with defrauding the public is being caught, though defrauding Westerners is not viewed as a problem at all.

Blogger pyrrhus July 23, 2017 6:00 PM  

As many minorities in China have discovered the hard way, if a minority group starts causing trouble, the Han respond with extremely brutal force, and the world will never find out, or won't care if it does.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 23, 2017 6:07 PM  

@70 pyrrhus
Chinese or Japanese who married blacks, if that ever happens, will be completely ostracized.
---

They just move to the US and go by Blackanese

Anonymous Pitcrew July 23, 2017 6:34 PM  

40. two sentries

White people adapted to their environment of Europe- Remove the welfare state, industrialized agriculture and the like and overwhelmingly white genetics would have a huge advantage in a European environment. Black and brown genetics would die out, with black dying first. If miscegenation is too high though, this process could take thousands of years. If statism was removed at this very moment, the process would take only months to return the continent to its prior state.

Anonymous Simplytimothy July 23, 2017 6:56 PM  

Frankly, I became frightened as I read the Chinaman's letter.

First, it was written to and printed in the WSJ. A paper who's god is.money; who's late editor declared "the nation state is dead"; who's proposed amendment to the Constitution reads "There shall be open borders". If, we replace the nationality of the letter with American instead of Chinese and ask ourselves if the WSJ would deign to print it or, should it be spoken as a speech by a figure such as Trump would it denounce it, then the answers are "no" and "yes", respectively.

The language of American identity is foreign to one of America's leading newspapers (can we name any where it is not?)


Secondly, the contrast in the author's pedantic prose vs our Alt-Right rhetoric is a lead slug to the chest. The Chinaman's people are.not.morally opposed to their own identity. Too many of my people are.

If China where to invade, mine are.a people ripe for slaughter.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 23, 2017 7:03 PM  

Crusader Corim wrote:I realize you guys are having fun proclaiming that the Chinese are psychopathic monsters who will murder-kill all of their cheap labor at the instant it becomes inconvenient without realizing that so were white Europeans in the Caribbean and the New World for over a hundred years.

Look up how brutally the slaves were repressed in Haiti, the Carolinas, etc.

Yet here we are.

When the Black slaves in China outnumber their masters 100 to 1, the way they did in the Caribbean, it'll be a problem.
Ain't it funny how the Carolinas never had a successful slave uprising.

Anonymous Jack July 23, 2017 7:35 PM  

@19 "Gags aside, is this an attempt to make the opium wars and the cultural revolution into a Chinese holocaust?"

Yes for the former but not the latter, because the opium wars were a case of victimization by outsiders, whereas the cultural revolution was their own folly.

Victimization politics in China relate to Aeoli Pera's observations that their policies sound a lot like fascism. National Socialism had the "stab in the back," China has their "hundred years of humiliation" which is taught to every student as part of "patriotic education" which is nationalist indoctrination. They resent the Western powers for dominating them for a hundred years, but their true hatred is reserved for the Japanese, who are hated racially because of what the Japs did during the war in places like Nanjing. This is not universally true among the Chinese, but it is the dominant feeling. There were anti-Japanese riots in 2012 because of the conflict over the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, in which Japanese-owned businesses were smashed up and Japanese cars on the streets were overturned.

On the other hand, diaspora Chinese who are educated in the West have imbibed Western-style victim politics, and have been taught to regard themselves as an oppressed minority because their ancestors built the railroads and because whitey is evil and all that. (The writer of the article is a good example.)

Blogger rumpole5 July 23, 2017 7:53 PM  

You can't meaningfully compare a nation (the Chinese) with 5000 years to coalesce into what it is with a nation (USA founders) that has experienced almost 300 years of constant introduction of new and alien cultures into its numbers. That being said, I do agree with the premise that there is a distinct United States Nation. I believe that the more European "founder stock" blood that a United States native born enjoys, the closer he will be to the essence of our Nation. On the other hand, the more blood of the "Ellis Island" variety one has, the further away he will be from that essence. This is why those parts of our country that enjoy a greater percentage of "founder" descendants are more likely to be red state areas. Those with the later arriving laborers, such as Irish, East Europeans, non German Jews, the second wave of Germans and the Scandinavians are more likely to be blue state areas. Trump's success with Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan suggests to me that the Ellis Island types are becomming more like the "founder" natives in their thinking.

The solution is to STOP IMMIGRATION NOW. And to give this virtuous trend some time to develop.

OpenID simplytimothy July 23, 2017 8:05 PM  

@74 ...never mind. The letter from the chinaman appeared here on Vox Popoli, not in the WSJ. Amazing what a second cup of coffee can do for reading comprehension.

Blogger Sillon Bono July 23, 2017 8:09 PM  

I have a question, a very obvious one...

Here it goes, does Japan or China make movies showing how bad their societies have been? Do Chinese intellectuals spend time and resources into creating a Chinese guilt, and make them ashamed of their societies?

I mean do the Japanese for example make movies showing how cruel they were to the Chinese? Do the Japanese make propaganda to show their fellow citizens they should be ashamed? Do Japanese intellectuals spend time and resources into creating a Japanese guilt, and make them ashamed of their societies?

Now let's go back to USA/Europe... do the Westerners make use of mass media... for over 50 years...

Cohesion... Cohesion...

Anonymous Cantostop July 23, 2017 8:12 PM  

@dc "I think everyone assumes that the 21st and maybe 22nd centuries will be China's oyster. "
Those of us who have spent considerable time in China find this laughable. The Chinese are not creators, they have no morals and cheat and scam each other as a matter of course, the whole thing is a house of cards. They succeed due to the altruism of the West and little more. And that Asian b*tch has to go back.

OpenID simplytimothy July 23, 2017 8:32 PM  

@79 Do the Israelis?
https://www.unz.com/isteve/joel-stein-asks-how-jewish-is-hollywood/

Anonymous two sentries July 23, 2017 8:40 PM  

"I mean do the Japanese for example make movies showing how cruel they were to the Chinese? Do the Japanese make propaganda to show their fellow citizens they should be ashamed?"

Actual Westerners don't do that, either. ((($omebody else))) does it for them.

Blogger MendoScot July 23, 2017 8:41 PM  

Crow King wrote:Actually, traditionally and historically China was a great melting pot and anyone really could be Chinese as long as they embraced the culture. This was the official Chinese position for millenia. Maybe you couldn't be Chinese in a generation, but you could soon.
The theory is nice, the reality is genocide.

Blogger Crusader Corim July 23, 2017 8:47 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:When the Black slaves in China outnumber their masters 100 to 1, the way they did in the Caribbean, it'll be a problem.

Ain't it funny how the Carolinas never had a successful slave uprising.


Are you arguing that the Carolinas do not have an African problem?

I am not arguing that China will be overtaken by Africans. I am arguing that they are repeating the same stupid mistake that America did, and that they aren't going to dodge the consequences either.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( more Natural Born Kekistani than if my mother was a native of Moorhead MN and my father came from Cockram Mill VA ... so to speak ) July 23, 2017 9:08 PM  

58. BBGKB July 23, 2017 4:09 PM
Is he seriously proposing mestizos will behave worse if we notice?



Fred has no problems noticing that the Fake News has likewise covered up the egregious crimes of Dindu Nation.

yet, somehow, he has no problem calling out Negroes for their intransigent refusal to integrate to American society.

this Cognitive Dissonance could not POSSIBLY have any relation to Fred not having filled a black sugar bowl, could it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJv-siu5FXY

Anonymous Raptor disrespect from behind July 23, 2017 9:16 PM  

Nope, but if you consume Chinese media you might think Japanese invasion was eminent and or WW2 never ended.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat July 23, 2017 9:27 PM  

Your correspondent is spot on. I've lived in China for almost 40 years. I speak the language like a native. My friends and associates are Chinese. I am not and never will be Chinese and my friends would think I was deranged if I said otherwise or if If I said I wanted to be Chinese (I don't.) The most I can get is to be acknowledged as Zhongguo tong, (like a Chinese).

Blogger tz July 23, 2017 9:28 PM  

If I can get people to accept I'm not my anatomical or genetic sex, why can't I identify as Chinese and force everyone to accept it?

Blogger Cail Corishev July 23, 2017 9:41 PM  

During one faculty/student mixer a Chinese-American woman stated that her parents would allow her to marry anyone with the proviso that he be ABC = American Borne Chinese.

Chinese self identity may not be as uniform as some think.


How do you get that conclusion from the example of Chinese parents insisting that their Chinese daughter marry a Chinese man, with the proviso that he also carry a financially advantageous citizenship? Is this Opposite Day?

Blogger Samuel Nock July 23, 2017 9:54 PM  

A further irony here is that Bell has largely made his career off of promoting the work of people such as Jiang Qing, who advocates for the reinstatement of a Confucian constitutional order, i.e. a government constructed upon indigenous and traditional Chinese norms, forms, structures and concepts. In essence, Jiang argues that the Chinese should be governed by the forms of government that they developed themselves as an ethny and nation. Jiang doesn't make explicity racial arguments, but he doesn't really need to: he has the luxury of all his readers understanding that it is a given that they will be racially homogeneous. It would be utterly incoherent for Jiang to say "China should adopt only indigenous Chinese methods of government, and - oh yeah - we can import people from all over the world and still remain China." That Bell fails to see this, and that it completely refutes his own desire to "be Chinese" is, well, ironic.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( more Natural Born Kekistani than if my mother was a native of Moorhead MN and my father came from Cockram Mill VA ... so to speak ) July 23, 2017 10:27 PM  

58. BBGKB July 23, 2017 4:09 PM
Is he seriously proposing mestizos will behave worse if we notice?



Fred has no problems noticing that the Fake News has likewise covered up the egregious crimes of Dindu Nation.

yet, somehow, he has no problem calling out Negroes for their intransigent refusal to integrate to American society.

this Cognitive Dissonance could not POSSIBLY have any relation to Fred not having filled a black sugar bowl, could it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJv-siu5FXY

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( more Natural Born Kekistani than if my mother was a native of Moorhead MN and my father came from Cockram Mill VA ... so to speak ) July 23, 2017 10:28 PM  

88. Cail Corishev July 23, 2017 9:41 PM
Is this Opposite Day?



nah.

i think Sarah just left Trig unsupervised near a keyboard.

Blogger Thucydides July 23, 2017 10:34 PM  

@54
I think you are right on the difference between "civic nationalism" and "cultural nationalism". I rather suspect many people who talk about the former are actually confusing it for the latter.

Samuel Huntington wrote eloquently about this, both in the "Clash of Civilizations" and in his lesser known book "Who are we?". The idea of civilizations as Huntington defined them revolve around cultural assumptions. Asking a Westerner and a Chinese to define concepts like "human rights", "Rule of Law" or the role of government will result in completely different answers to the same questions. Now try that again with other civilizations, even closely related ones like the Christian West and the Orthodox Slavic civilization and the result will be the same; largely different and incompatible definitions to fundamental concepts. These are not "wrong" the way mathematical answers are wrong, since they work inside their own contexts and places, but they are wrong when you try to import them into other places or use them in the wrong context.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 23, 2017 10:57 PM  

Dean Bell obviously hasn't noticed that when his Chinese colleagues refer to a "Canadian" they invariably mean a white person usually of Western European background--if it even gets beyond the white part. The same meaning attaches when an East Asian refers to an "American" or an "Australian." Why on Earth would his Chinese associates change the plain meaning of "Chinese," then? Dean Bell also apparently hasn't thought through why his op/ed was published in the Wall Street Journal rather than the People's Daily, which would be more helpful to promote his concerns.

It takes a whole lot of willful blindness on the part of Dean Bell and like-minded globalist utopians to promote diversity in a world that doesn't even entertain the notion it is a serious matter.

As an aside, the Soros/Economist crowd really has of late pushed the idea of open borders for East Asia. The fruit in the West hung low for them because that culture entertains degeneracy. Just as Zuckerberg has been shocked to learn, despite a convenient marriage to a Han Chinese woman, that neither he nor his children ever will be given entry to the Middle Kingdom due to their bloodlines, the other globalist utopians soon will discover nothing whatsoever will move East Asia and most of the world to their position. It will be fun to watch in no small part due to the casualty potential.

Anonymous Manwe July 23, 2017 11:00 PM  

It is a nonwhite privilege to be able to declare oneself a member of any particular white nation or ethnic group. Whites just do not have this privilege.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat July 23, 2017 11:49 PM  

That would be "wrongskin". Even the mighty Godfrey Elfwick was unable to master the esoterica of wrongskin.

Anonymous Pennywise July 23, 2017 11:59 PM  

Sherwood Family...

“Most Normies do not realize much of anything. That is why we call them Normies.”

Exactly why this arrogance will be the undoing of the Alt Right. Pigeon holing a group of people does not win converts or foot soldiers.

“What people do not understand is a thing called a preference cascade where everyone agrees that X is the way things are and Y is not acceptable until suddenly Y intrudes and everyone decides that they really liked Y all along now that it seems like it is okay with enough people or with the cool kids.”

X will probably remain the “go-to” for normies, considering that Y according to the Alt Right requires them to believe that the proposition nation is a falsehood, that deportation of family members or friends is mandatory to preserve the West, and that a Christian based monarchy is the preferred form of government.

“It is how the Cathedral has moved their agenda forward but those who think the ratchet only ever turns one way have not been paying attention because it is starting to turn back in a way that has not been possible for the last fifty years.”

Assuming that normies are even convinced in the concept known as the Cathedral or believe in its existence.

“When this thing unwinds you will be really surprised at where the Overton window is going to finally settle.””

Maybe, but probably not.


tz...

“The Bible says Nations are based on genetics.”

Let’s be clear here. All human beings are related. In truth all humans are fully human. No group of people is less evolved than another. In fact, the genetic difference between any two people is only about one-tenth of one percent, trivial at best.

The Bible teaches us that God has "made of one blood all nations of men" (Acts 17:26). Scripture distinguishes people by tribal or national groupings, not by skin color or physical appearance. Clearly there are groups of people who have certain features (e.g., skin color) in common, which distinguish them from other groups. But each nation is other than “unique race”.

“I watch, sadly, as John C Wright attempts to explain or define the "proposition"”

Sadly, as he and Col. Krautman offered cogent rebuttals, which led to significant butthurt.

“He'd rather live among Constitutional Christians than his fellow libertarian atheists.”

As well as the elites, the Churchians, and the normies. Wow, what a battle royale that could ensue if and when there is the impending breakup of America.

“Reason v.s. evidence and he chooses evidence.”

Evidence is borne out of reason. Reason explains evidence. It is a symbiotic relationship here; there is no “versus”.

Blogger Gospace July 24, 2017 12:29 AM  

@54
Asking a Westerner and a Chinese to define concepts like "human rights", "Rule of Law" or the role of government will result in completely different answers to the same questions. Now try that again with other civilizations, even closely related ones like the Christian West and the Orthodox Slavic civilization and the result will be the same; largely different and incompatible definitions to fundamental concepts.


One of the biggest differences will be "Where do your rights come from?" Anywhere BUT the United States the answer will be "from the government". In the United States they are preexisting natural rights that the government can interfere with, but not grant, since they already exist.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 1:27 AM  

Pennywise wrote:All human beings are related.
All are related to chimpanzees and gorillas, too.  And to monkeys; we share Rh factors with macaques.

In truth all humans are fully human.
Is Neanderthal admixture more human, or less human?  It has to be one or the other.

No group of people is less evolved than another.
Blatantly false.  West Africans are evolved against tropical diseases and tribal raids/warfare, which require little long-term planning.  Ice peoples are evolved against long cold seasons and other long-term threats which require completely different skills and sometimes even body types.

In fact, the genetic difference between any two people is only about one-tenth of one percent, trivial at best.
The genetic distance between Europeans and S.S. Africans is greater than that between chimps and bonobos, two different species.

Anonymous I think I know this one July 24, 2017 1:52 AM  

VD wrote:Compromise your identity, compromise your intellect. It is an eminently reliable predictor.

It's rather amusing what mental gyrations people will go through simply because Grandpappy boffed a foreigner, Daughter Dear is a mudshark, or Cousin Sue adopted two Nigerians.


They start identifying as Native American?

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable July 24, 2017 1:58 AM  

Kimberly Yam needs to go back.

Blogger John Morris July 24, 2017 3:16 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote:The genetic distance between Europeans and S.S. Africans is greater than that between chimps and bonobos, two different species.

Um, no. Don't try to oversell, once the reader starts eyerolling they probably ain't considering your ideas.

Any two random "humans" can be plucked up and dropped on a desert island and assuming you get a male and a female of appropriate age, etc. they will probably end up making babies.

Run the experiment with a human and chimp as many times as you like and while they might eventually get hard up enough to engage in unnatural acts you won't ever see a human - monkey hybrid pop out.

This is basic Biology 101 stuff.

Blogger Matamoros July 24, 2017 4:53 AM  

Try basic Biology 501 - Africans are genetically related to Bonobos NOT Whites (Europeans) - DNA says so, so your Biology 101 is bunk.

The bonobo genome compared with the chimpanzee and human genomes
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v486/n7404/full/nature11128.html

Blogger Dirk Manly July 24, 2017 4:53 AM  

Australian abbos generally cannot reproduce with non-abbos.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy July 24, 2017 4:54 AM  

John Morris wrote:Run the experiment with a human and chimp as many times as you like and while they might eventually get hard up enough to engage in unnatural acts you won't ever see a human - monkey hybrid pop out.
How do you know? Have you tried it?

Blogger Dirk Manly July 24, 2017 5:41 AM  

He used the ultra-reliable methodology known as a "thought experiment" , just like the global warming crowd.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 24, 2017 6:42 AM  

Did anyone do the obvious I-Think-Turning-Japanese gag?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LR4XNqrqxrU

Anonymous Matatan July 24, 2017 6:42 AM  

One of the main problems with the Western left is that they don't take non-Western peoples and raced seriously for who they are. They really believe that inside every African or Arab is a white reasonable middle class person hiding that with the right approach will come out and discard it's former primitive self. I lived in a 3rd world country for some years. The first thing I learned was that you can't count on anyone to be reasonable. Sure, there are reasonable people, but when you interact with someone you don't know, the best assumption is he is not reasonable and will behave according to his instinct and feelings. But for someone in the west who hasn't had this experience, it is almost impossible to imagine that there really are people who are not going to get convinced by your reasonable arguments and negotiations, but are just going to take from you whatever you let them, even your life.

Anonymous Gotta stay pseudo anon :( July 24, 2017 6:56 AM  

Is it Daniel Bell or (((Daniel Bell)?

Chair Professor of the (((Schwarzman))) Scholars Program at Tsinghua and director of the (((Berggruen))) Institute of Philosophy and Culture.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Daniel_A._Bell

It's like every single time?

Blogger w.w. wygart July 24, 2017 7:56 AM  

Can't understand what is happening with China? and why *you* white boy will *never* be Chinese?? You need to start watching ADV China on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/user/churchillcustoms

Two great western [white] guys on motorcycles with Chinese wives telling it like it really is in China.

Blogger J.M. July 24, 2017 8:21 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Pennywise wrote:All human beings are related.

All are related to chimpanzees and gorillas, too.  And to monkeys; we share Rh factors with macaques.

In truth all humans are fully human.

Is Neanderthal admixture more human, or less human?  It has to be one or the other.

No group of people is less evolved than another.

Blatantly false.  West Africans are evolved against tropical diseases and tribal raids/warfare, which require little long-term planning.  Ice peoples are evolved against long cold seasons and other long-term threats which require completely different skills and sometimes even body types.

In fact, the genetic difference between any two people is only about one-tenth of one percent, trivial at best.

The genetic distance between Europeans and S.S. Africans is greater than that between chimps and bonobos, two different species.


Thanks for showing us how it feels like abandoning reason, Mr. "Rational". Unlike you I don't need to make up facts to see that African immigration has deleterious effects to the well-being of my people https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2015/11/28/response-to-daily-stormer-article-black-africans-are-genetically-closer-to-bonobos-than-to-white-humans/

I guess the real danger in the pendulum swings is that once it swings completely to the other side reason and truth are abandoned in favor of Rationalizations...

LurkingPuppy wrote:John Morris wrote:Run the experiment with a human and chimp as many times as you like and while they might eventually get hard up enough to engage in unnatural acts you won't ever see a human - monkey hybrid pop out.

How do you know? Have you tried it?


No need to try it since other have done it since millennia (mixing white with whatever other race of humans dwells in this planet). So far no human-animal hybrid through natural means has ever been begotten, so that's enough evidence.

@Matamoros, you need to go back to 101 Biology.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 24, 2017 8:57 AM  

VD: The truth is that civic nationalism is a lie. Proposition nationalism is a lie. There is no melting pot and nations are groups of genetically related people sharing a common language, common traditions, common religion, and common experiences.

However one defines "nation", it doesn't change the fact that *in reality* the US has been a successful multi ethnic polity for a long time.

That some bozo was surprised that China is ethno nationalist is hardly the fault of the civic nationalists of the US of any era.

When did US civic nationalists claim that the whole world was civic nationalist? They usually stressed that US style civic nationalism is the exception and not the rule.

Not just rare, but better than.

Civic nationalist US is relatively powerful, prosperous, and free, when compared with the ethno nationalist states of the world.

US civic nationalists win. Ethno nationalists lose.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 24, 2017 9:57 AM  

rumpole5 wrote:
I believe that the more European "founder stock" blood that a United States native born enjoys, the closer he will be to the essence of our Nation.
On the other hand, the more blood of the "Ellis Island" variety one has, the further away he will be from that essence.


That fits the Alt-Right narrative, but is it true?

Those nasty Ellis Island Germans are the single largest ethnic group in counties all across the northern half of the country, starting from the industrial midwest all through to the coast. That solid block of Red from the midwest to the Rockies have a German plurality.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21642222-americas-largest-ethnic-group-has-assimilated-so-well-people-barely-notice-it

Map for all ethnicities here. All those Germans still in the same place.

Apparently whites in the South call themselves Americans. Though this article says many are Scots-Irish.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/10/the-scots-irish-vote/27853/

Maybe all those nasty Germans are why Trump could take the midwest.

Buzzfeed did their own poll of Whitey.

The Germans +18 and Americans +17 supported Trump the most. The English +6 significantly less. The Irish +1 the least.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 24, 2017 10:30 AM  

That fits the Alt-Right narrative, but is it true?

Yes, but you put it backwards. The Alt-Right narrative fits it because it's true.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 10:34 AM  

@101  I must be writing at too high an IQ level for you.  What you wrote shows a complete misunderstanding of what I wrote.

There are chimp-bonobo crosses.  I never said anything about breeding humans with chimps.

@110  You can't read either.

Here is a piece on genetic distance which is not directly on-point as it does not compare chimps to bonobos but it offers a view of distance between races of humans.

This piece claims 99.6% genetic similarity between chimps and bonobos, 98.7% similarity to humans.  This paper does not use the same measure as the previous one, and I'm not sure if the two scales even translate to each other directly.  However, a European with 2% Neanderthal mixture is at least that 2% different from a sub-Saharan African.  That's 5x the chimp-bonobo distance.

Blogger Sheila4g July 24, 2017 11:30 AM  

Just returned from a brief fruit-buying foray, where I passed a Chinese woman in the parking lot and said, in passing, "You all have to go back where you came from." I kept walking, and she sought me out in the grocery store to ask if I had woken up on the wrong side of the bed. I responded "You don't belong here." She answered "I'm an American citizen. I was born here." I replied "You may have paper citizenship, but you're Han Chinese and will always be Han Chinese. Your parents invaded my country." She muttered "I can't even . . . " and walked away.

Wish I was quicker thinking; when she said she was born here I obviously should have riposted that had I been born in China I would obviously be a Chinaman. Next time.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 24, 2017 11:59 AM  

Sheila4g wrote:... and said, in passing, "You all have to go back where you came from."

Good for you. The journey home of 30+ million invaders starts with a single comment in the grocery store.

Blogger rumpole5 July 24, 2017 12:26 PM  

Reply to Buybuydandavis, Re: Germans.

You are lumping two entirely different classes of people into one category. The first wave of German immigration in the 1730s, and on, was largely motivated by protestant Christian beliefs and to escape persecution for those beliefs. The present day Mennonite/Amish sects are a present day example of those beliefs. These sects were bad in that they produced a group of people who lived apart from the rest of the population, held up non violence as a virtue, and refused to engage socially and politically in American society. My mother's family arrived here in the 1730s and settled and helped found towns from New Jersey through Indiana. However, they spoke German at home through the 1940s. They were good citizens in that they worked hard, were productive, and did not cause problems. Because the anabaptists practiced shunning if one of their number left the church, those who left tended to assimilate well into the "English" culture. There was nowhere else to go.

The "Ellis Island" Germans were entirely different. Most of them were factory type workers, of a lower class, were more morally slack, and were much more susceptable to socialist and communist ideas These believed in unions, and went on to cause a great deal of political havoc in states like Wisconsin. They may be white in the sense of skin color but all of the "Ellis Island" type immigrants have caused a great deal of damage to our cultural and political thought. In my opinion they are not properly assimilated into the founder culture even now.

Blogger J.M. July 24, 2017 2:38 PM  

@115

It seems you still haven't understood and reading comprehension skills are needed. My comment was about the specific article the Daily stormer mis-represented, which you cited. In the end the graphic and the very paper they mentioned didn't say what they wanted it to say. It seems you didn't use your logic either when you unquestioningly cited their article as an evidence of such a claim.

I didn't deny Africans are very different from Europeans genetically, that has been proven again and again starting with the Neanderthal admixture that only Europeans and North East Asians possess to varying degrees. But that is very different from claiming that Africans are more related genetically to Bonobos whereas Europeans aren't or that they are from different species (another unsupported claim disproven by science and history). This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that should be reserved for rhetoric not for any serious discussion.

In the end, no lies are needed to defend one's land.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 3:25 PM  

@119  Anglin used a specific graphic which did not support his claim (he's sloppy like that, much better at satire than science).  I did not refer to that graphic at all, only the numbers on genetic distance.

Maybe if you had an IQ above the midwit range, this would have been apparent to you from reading the actual text instead of requiring multiple corrections and explanations.  Or maybe you're just falling over yourself to try to establish that I'm wrong.  Some Minoxidil will get rid of that hard-on for you.

Blogger Kristophr July 24, 2017 4:15 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:@101
...

This piece claims 99.6% genetic similarity between chimps and bonobos, 98.7% similarity to humans.  This paper does not use the same measure as the previous one, and I'm not sure if the two scales even translate to each other directly.  However, a European with 2% Neanderthal mixture is at least that 2% different from a sub-Saharan African.  That's 5x the chimp-bonobo distance.


Thanx for the clarification. I was almost ready to agree with J.M. there.

And I am proud of my Neanderthal heritage. Unfortunately, our poor communication skills required some of that pesky Homo Sap blood to get in on the Neolithic information revolution. But Neanderthal brains and Homo Sap. linguistic skills ( we could then actually pass on knowledge generationally ) did conquer the planet ( with a little help from a lactose tolerance mutation ... ).

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 5:29 PM  

@121  You are most welcome.  The truth will out.

Speaking of truth, I found this absolute gem in Chapter 6 of Culture of Critique (p. 22 of the PDF):
The fundamental insight of the Frankfurt School and its recent postmodernist offshoots, as well the Boasian School of anthropology and much of the criticism of biological and evolutionary perspectives in the social sciences reviewed in Chapter 2, is that a thoroughgoing skepticism and its consequent fragmentation of intellectual discourse within the society as a whole is an excellent prescription for the continuity of collectivist minority group strategies. Within the intellectual world, the greatest potential danger for a collectivist minority group strategy is that science itself as an individualist enterprise conducted in an atomistic universe of discourse could in fact coalesce around a set of universalist propositions about human behavior, propositions that would call into question the moral basis of collectivist minority group strategies such as Judaism. One way to prevent this is for science itself to be problematized and replaced by a pervasive skepticism about the structure of all reality.
The intended effect of such movements (and to a considerable extent their actual effect) has been to impose a medieval anti-scientific orthodoxy on much of the contemporary intellectual world.

(((This))) is why we can't have good social science anymore.

Blogger Gospace July 24, 2017 5:49 PM  

Dirk Manly July 24, 2017 4:53 AM
Australian abbos generally cannot reproduce with non-abbos.


This is the first I've ever seen of that. Where does that bit of information come from?

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 24, 2017 6:04 PM  

Gospace wrote:Dirk Manly July 24, 2017 4:53 AM

Australian abbos generally cannot reproduce with non-abbos.


This is the first I've ever seen of that. Where does that bit of information come from?


I've heard some interesting rumors about the abos in the past, but never seen documentation. I have also heard that black/white pregnancies in the US tend to be difficult, with a high chance of problems, but again, never seen documentation.

If someone has a pointer to journal articles which discuss this sort of thing, I'd also like to see them.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 24, 2017 6:12 PM  

@Pennywise
"...the proposition nation is a falsehood"
You're giving the creators of this concept too much credit by calling it "false." It's not even that. It's self-contradictory.

"The genetic difference between any two people is only about one-tenth of one percent..."

No. You are seriously confused on more than one level. Of course, you are pitifully incapable of providing a source for this "fact." That's OK, I'm starting to feel sorry for you, so I'll help you out. This false claim was originally made by Craig Venter back in 2000. Even Venter has long since admitted that he was incorrect, and that the correct figure is about 0.5%. Despite that, ignorant acolytes of the Far Left continue to parrot this "fact" to this day. Do a search for "The Diploid Genome Sequence of an Individual Human," and note that Venter is one of the co-authors.

So humans are 99.5% genetically the same? Still sounds like they're pretty close... unless you have a basic understanding of genetics. That's at the single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) level, not the gene level. Your genome is not like written language, where changing a single letter only changes the meaning of a single word. It can change the meaning of the entire paragraph-- even the chapter. What's the percentage difference between someone with sickle cell disease, and someone without? It's only a single base pair... out of 3 billion.

To put this in perspective, at the SNP level, a random human shares 98.7% of his DNA with a random chimpanzee. A gorilla? 98.4%. You're not some kind of "speciest," are you? After all, there's only one race-- the hominid race.

Another comparison: By this measure, the human species contains more genetic variation than the entire canid group, encompassing wolves, coyotes, and all breeds of dogs.

You also might want to look up a few basic concepts such as "intron," "exon," "intergenic DNA," and "noncoding DNA" in general, in order to better appreciate what the denominator in these percentage figures really means.

Just sayin'

Blogger Gospace July 24, 2017 6:41 PM  

I will mention that the first time I aw pics of aboriginal Australians my mind had a WTF moment. Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine being desperate enough to mate with one. I can believe they have genetic problems mating outside their group, but that's a big claim to make that there are problems. If you haven't done so, google them and look at the images. Then google Africans and do the same. The aborigines are just entirely different.

Blogger J.M. July 24, 2017 7:02 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:@119  Anglin used a specific graphic which did not support his claim (he's sloppy like that, much better at satire than science).  I did not refer to that graphic at all, only the numbers on genetic distance.

Maybe if you had an IQ above the midwit range, this would have been apparent to you from reading the actual text instead of requiring multiple corrections and explanations.  Or maybe you're just falling over yourself to try to establish that I'm wrong.  Some Minoxidil will get rid of that hard-on for you.


Hmmm, I accept my mistake, my response should have been directed to Matamoros, the one who put the original link and supported its assertion. However genetic distance doesn't seem to be the only factor that differentiates one species from another. As you yourself noted, the distance between bonobos and Chimpanzee seems to be greater than the distance between Europeans and Africans (on account of the 3% on average presence of Neanderthal genes in the former) however Chimpanzees and Bonobos are unable to produce any offspring, let alone a viable one through natural means whereas no such incompatibility has been documented between Human races, not even between Other races and Australian Aborigines, the latter showing the greater distance from the rest of the Human groups.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 7:04 PM  

@126  And they're abysmally stupid too (average IQ around 62, just barely above Equatorial Guinea at 59).

And just like in the USA, money can't buy them a clue:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/8688531/Billions-spent-on-Australias-Aborigines-yield-dismal-results.html

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 7:09 PM  

J.M. wrote:As you yourself noted, the distance between bonobos and Chimpanzee seems to be greater than the distance between Europeans and Africans
No, that's backwards.

Chimpanzees and Bonobos are unable to produce any offspring, let alone a viable one through natural means
Try using a search engine sometime, it can prevent a lot of embarrassment:
http://www.macroevolution.net/bonobo-chimpanzee-hybrids.html

You sound like a believer in "baraminlogy".  "Creation science" and its offspring are latecomers to the fake sciences (like Boasian anthropology), but it looks like you've got it bad.

Blogger J.M. July 24, 2017 7:37 PM  

You are right, thanks for the correction. In regards to Chimpanzees and bonobos, it seems they have produced offspring, but the they paper cited in the link (Vervaecke and van Elsacker 1992) doesn't indicate whether the offspring is fertile or not.

No I don't believe in "creation Science" Mr. Irrational, neither Boasian Anthropology, that's the province of your ilk.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy July 24, 2017 7:37 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Try using a search engine sometime, it can prevent a lot of embarrassment:
And on the same site: http://www.macroevolution.net/bird-mammal-hybrids.html

So much for ‘A Princess of Mars’ not being hard SF.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 24, 2017 8:30 PM  

J.M. wrote:neither Boasian Anthropology, that's the province of your ilk.
I'm not one of (((them))).  Born and raised Christian, atheist by application of reason to dogma.

@131  You're showing another gross misconception typical of creationists.  Sure, the platypus (and echnidnae) show signs of being the product of either (a) an inter-species breeding event very early in the divergence of mammals and birds, or (b) an independent line that split off along the middle during the process of divergence.

That was THEN.  This is NOW:  modern mammals and birds are far too genetically distant and incompatible to inter-breed.

Or maybe you're pulling my leg.  In cyberspace, no one can hear you snigger.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 24, 2017 11:53 PM  

@John Morris
"The genetic distance between Europeans and S.S. Africans is greater than that between chimps and bonobos, two different species."

"Any two random "humans" can be plucked up and dropped on a desert island and assuming you get a male and a female of appropriate age, etc. they will probably end up making babies"

And chimps and bonobos can mate and produce fertile offspring. Your point is? I don't think you understood his argument.

Anonymous He never reviews old threads July 25, 2017 3:28 AM  

I think I know this one wrote:VD wrote:Compromise your identity, compromise your intellect. It is an eminently reliable predictor.

It's rather amusing what mental gyrations people will go through simply because Grandpappy boffed a foreigner, Daughter Dear is a mudshark, or Cousin Sue adopted two Nigerians.


They start identifying as Native American?


VD still identifies as a native American.

By my count, I win.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy July 25, 2017 4:51 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote:@131  You're showing another gross misconception typical of creationists.  Sure, the platypus (and echnidnae) show signs of being the product of either (a) an inter-species breeding event very early in the divergence of mammals and birds, or (b) an independent line that split off along the middle during the process of divergence.

That was THEN.  This is NOW:  modern mammals and birds are far too genetically distant and incompatible to inter-breed.

Or maybe you're pulling my leg.  In cyberspace, no one can hear you snigger.

(a) The genetic difference between a human and a fictional oviparous hominid might not be too large. The claim that ‘A Princess of Mars’ was not hard SF when it was written was based on the assertion that egg-layers cannot possibly interbreed with mammals; that is false, and some evidence to that effect was known at the time.

(b) That's what ‘John Morris’ said about humans and chimps. (Wow, ‘Pennywise’ really derailed this thread.) Again, how can you be certain that X can't breed with Y without, at the very least, actually trying the experiment? (Good luck finding an egg-laying space princess for the experiment, but the principle does apply slightly more generally.) Biological systems are complicated enough and robust enough against many types of changes that I wouldn't rule out bird-mammal hybridization.

(c) The anecdote at the end of that article, about a rabbit who regularly mated with a hen (though in that case without offspring), may be the origin of the 18th-century myth of the egg-bringing Easter bunny.

Anonymous Pennywise July 25, 2017 8:38 AM  

rumpole...

"The "Ellis Island" Germans were entirely different. Most of them were factory type workers, of a lower class, were more morally slack, and were much more susceptable to socialist and communist ideas."

This elitist attitude of contempt is exactly why the Alt Right is not inevitable. Why on earth would tens of millions of Americans with German ancestry join a group that states their political and economic decisions over decades have caused irrevocable harm on America?

Blogger Matamoros July 25, 2017 10:48 AM  

@111. J.M.

You need to learn how to read studies. Go back to basic reading skills.

The study clearly shows that Africans and bonobos are closely related, while Europeans are outside the relationship.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org July 26, 2017 6:28 AM  

"Have a friend with a wife of Chinese descent. She is totally Americanized, doesn't speak Chinese, American mannerisms etc. They visited China on vacation. At the border they waved her through without looking at her papers. When she asked, the guards said "You are Han. You can come in.""

There is a zero percent chance that the story your friend told is true. Alternatively, you misunderstood it.

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2017 6:13 AM  

The "Nanjing Massacre" is their attempt at a Shoah.The opium wars and the cultural revolution are the equivalent of "muh grandfather got pogromed out of Russia".

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