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Friday, July 21, 2017

Pseudo-Patreon

As you may know, both Brittany Pettibone and Lauren Southern were kicked off Patreon this week. That's one reason why I've never bothered with it; I knew that I wouldn't last 24 hours there. However, there are several alternatives that have been founded, one of which is sufficiently trustworthy from both a philosophical and a structural aspect, and so I'm probably going to set up a Patreon account style there.

So, two questions:

1) What sort of rewards are of interest? Gab TV and a YouTube channel are all in the works.

2) Should I simply focus on project-related crowdfunding instead? You see, I do not wish to disincentivize people to support Infogalactic or ALT HERO, which will be launching its crowdfunding soon. On the other hand, simple observation dictates that more people are more willing to support an individual on an ongoing basis than a specific project.

Anyhow, share your thoughts, please. I have not made any decisions as of yet.

Labels:

86 Comments:

Blogger Gloriam Deo July 21, 2017 6:08 PM  

A reward level which allows the backer to email (or communicate one on one somehow) once a month with Vox would be interesting.

Blogger Ingot9455 July 21, 2017 6:14 PM  

@1 I believe there is already a stated price to purchase an hour of the Supreme Dark Lord's consulting time on matters of great import.

I like a 'funnel' idea - we minions support the Supreme Dark Lord and he points the torrents of our filthy, hate-filled lucre into appropriately listed percentile buckets.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable July 21, 2017 6:14 PM  

I don't know, honestly. I'd probably support either. Alt Hero is less my thing, but I'd pony up. If it's just you generally, you know I'm in. There's enough good stuff happening in the Voxiverse to make it worth a regular piece of the pie, whatever weirdness that may yet entail.

Blogger Gloriam Deo July 21, 2017 6:18 PM  

Ingot9455 wrote:@1 I believe there is already a stated price to purchase an hour of the Supreme Dark Lord's consulting time on matters of great import.

I like a 'funnel' idea - we minions support the Supreme Dark Lord and he points the torrents of our filthy, hate-filled lucre into appropriately listed percentile buckets.


Seriously? where? Thanks for pointing this out. Even so, getting an answer to a question from him would still be a good reward. Not a full consultation, just an email to him and a single response back.

Anonymous VFM #6306 July 21, 2017 6:18 PM  

No way would that work: he hasn't got the time to sell. You are better off buying a brainstorm pass.

I think the only rewards that make sense are latent ones: real digital goods.

Blogger Gloriam Deo July 21, 2017 6:21 PM  

@5 I thought of that, but those are already sold on amazon. unless he is creating new stuff (which would take time away from other projects), he would have to give away product from existing ventures.

Blogger VD July 21, 2017 6:24 PM  

Jordan Peterson appears to have an interesting model. Not all of it is relevant, but I like it better than early access to stuff that is going to come out anyhow.

Anonymous Looking Glass July 21, 2017 6:25 PM  

I think you'll find that stuff isn't mutually exclusive. People pay for the content they want, the "I SUPPORT THIS PERSON!" people aren't generally in our expected groups. Everyone can run too many mental optimization functions and just pick.

I would roll out your Funded-Support at the same time as Alt-Hero. Use both together.

If you're going into producing more content yourself, I'd highly recommend using the Funded-Support stuff and rope your oldest sons into actual paid work on it. Going to Video beyond just popping up on Periscope/GabTV is going to eat up TIME. You're already a bit stretched as it is. You're also going to want to build out your Camera, Audio and Computer systems, especially as Rendering takes time. (And good Audio is the biggest key.) [Plus the kids could learn a useful skill in Video Editing/Rendering. It's used all over the place now.]

Lastly, on the Funded-Support, be careful with the Tiers. I see far too many people that offer tiers that simply don't make a Cost-Benefit analysis work. Something like X-tier gives people access to vote on a list of topics to do a Darkstream on. Allows a form of Viewer-Presenter interaction that Periscope Trolls prevent.

Anonymous Looking Glass July 21, 2017 6:27 PM  

@4 Gloriam Deo

http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/dark-lord-consulting-initial-consult/

There you go. :) The Dark Lord has a consulting business, because every Dungeon could use improvement.

Blogger dvdivx July 21, 2017 6:30 PM  

My kids are YouTube addicts. I'd love a YouTube channel that's conservative and appeals to kids but that might be just a part of empire building at this point.

Anonymous Battlefrog July 21, 2017 6:32 PM  

Personally, I would only be inclined to give in case 2).

I reserve patreon type giving for people who are mainly providing a free service that they cannot monetize easily. Youtubers who refuse to monetize to avoid censorship, for example. Someone like Brittany Pettibone, on the other hand, might not have a stable income without that kind of funding.

But that's just my perspective. I'm sure plenty of people would donate that way.

Anonymous Battlefrog July 21, 2017 6:35 PM  

Battlefrog wrote:I reserve patreon type giving for people who are mainly providing a free service that they cannot monetize easily. Youtubers who refuse to monetize to avoid censorship, for example. [CUT] Someone like Brittany Pettibone, on the other hand, might not have a stable income without that kind of funding.

I accidentally cut a sentence.

[CUT] = "You do pretty well for yourself, and I would show support by buying a book or funding a project.

Anonymous Looking Glass July 21, 2017 6:36 PM  

Someone that has an interesting spin on their Patreon approach is http://sfdebris.com/

At the exact moment he's being tortured by the supporters with terrible, terrible anime. (The anime faction of Chuck's viewers must like torturing him. Kannazuki no Miko got names like "Rape Nuns" during its run; it's rather infamous.) But, he has a schedule and sells his time for specific requests, when he opens them up, and his tiers of support aren't that stretched out. The top-tiers allow him not to think about certain scheduling decisions, so he's actually convinced people to pay for him to have less work.

It's all about the Business Model Synergy. :)

For the most part, you'd want to setup the Tiers in such a way that paying some money gives more access/communication with the Dark Lord, but not so much as to be troublesome. The selection effect alone will make the interactions more valuable, as the people are already your supporters.

Blogger Joe A. July 21, 2017 6:38 PM  

Perhaps a free e-book as a reward?

Blogger Matthew July 21, 2017 6:38 PM  

Gloriam Deo wrote:A reward level which allows the backer to email (or communicate one on one somehow) once a month with Vox would be interesting.



Vox is pretty busy. That would have to be at the $10K level.

For $125, I would inspect photos of you and make judgements based on physiognomy.

Blogger Abdul July 21, 2017 6:41 PM  

Tell the ladies to make a feminist string game call Money Laundering Quest.

As for ongoing, we don't seem to engage in the cult of personality as much as leftists, so project-focused may be better.

(As an aside, this is what specifically turned me off PBS pledge breaks. And Wayne Dyer still won't do away even after death.)

Anonymous Looking Glass July 21, 2017 6:43 PM  

The easier Patreon-like tier would be something where people could vote on a Darkstream topic. For those nights when you really don't have anything big to chat about, just toss up a list of ideas that have been rolling around and do one of them when their is little news. As with SFdebris' approach, finding ways to offload certain tasks to people paying to be involved is very valuable. It's less thought for you, more supporter interaction and builds a sense of understanding with what your viewers are more curious about. (Positive Feedback loop, really.)

The place where a lot of Patreon's fail is either they offer too much work for too late cost, they turn themselves into puppets for their supporters or they simply offer the impossible. Keeping it light but consistent seems to always come out the best, from what I've seen.

It's a business model like any other, it's just different than Point-of-Sale where it's Vote-of-Confidence-With-Money.

In related news, once Gab has Micro-transactions/tipping, it's going to skyrocket in revenue. The Video Game industry is bigger than Hollywood because people love buying little things, though much of that is China. I want to give someone 10 cents for a spicy Meme. We're getting to a micro-transaction Internet slowly, but we're getting there.

Anonymous Stickwick July 21, 2017 6:46 PM  

Vox, I think the Peterson model would work well for you. A dedicated session just to have the Dark Lord answer your questions? Heck, yeah. You get so many questions here and on Periscope, that it'd be worthwhile to do a special Q&A just for your supporters.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable July 21, 2017 6:58 PM  

Mark Steyn has a $200 model that involves a free book, the right to have your questions considered/answered in a video once a week, and a whole lot of dedicated stuff sent to your inbox that you wouldn't otherwise receive. Worthwhile, I'd say.

Anonymous TJ July 21, 2017 6:59 PM  

Seems like there's a replacement already: https://hatreon.us/

Anonymous Ichabod July 21, 2017 7:01 PM  

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.
Are you trying to save the west or just looking how to make money...or both?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable July 21, 2017 7:05 PM  

Are you trying to save the west or just looking how to make money

To a certain extent, saving the West requires money. Street people can't do a whole lot to preserve your civilization.

Anonymous Eduardo July 21, 2017 7:07 PM  

Smooth name there playa... Hate... treon XD.

The LULZ bruh.

Anonymous roo_ster July 21, 2017 7:07 PM  

You'll need both a general Vox-centered account _and_ discrete project accounts to maximize funds raised in this fashion. Some folks support the man, some support the mission. Make it easy for both to donate.

I never gave to a cause in return for trinkets and I suspect there is no trinket that would induce me to give were I not so inclined.

Good luck with your ventures.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY July 21, 2017 7:19 PM  

How about those two gals get themselves a husband that will support them, pop out at least 3 white babies each, and quit playing around with married rice grinders or getting fox piss thrown on them, just to get a few shekels from mostly beta orbiters ?

Blogger weka July 21, 2017 7:20 PM  

Time to copy the tactics of the chluthu, or their B list author (I have just read the latest Laundry Novel and have a one word review: Don't).

Tell those who want to support you to buy your books in hardback. Castalia house is Antifragile. Youtube, Patreon etc are not, and their replacements have not won.

Yet.

Anonymous CoolHand July 21, 2017 7:33 PM  

It's damned hard to say what you ought to offer as reward for backers. You're already busier than a one legged man at an ass kicking contest, so I'm not sure how you'd find any time to reward the backers personally (like with direct comms, extra content, etc).

Perhaps you could instead turn to some simple swag (like physical goods) for the lower tiers and save the time sink stuff for the super high end backers (if any should materialize).

I dunno, this is kinda outside my wheelhouse, because I'm usually focused on manufacturing things.

On a related note, I too recently set up a Hatreon account to assist with my subversion of gun control laws.

They seem like an OK bunch, but I guess we'll see how it goes when/if money becomes involved. Their organizational model seems fairly SJW proof (to me at least). Time will tell.

Regardless of what you ultimately end up offering as incentives, I'm glad to see you embrace the platform.

Blogger Cloom Glue July 21, 2017 7:35 PM  

bitchute.com says their TV bandwidth and storage is web-torrent. I think that model might be more sustainable and less easy to dismantle than the centralization of youtube and facebook, because torrent can grow organically as more people volunteer bandwidth and space. So maybe back them instead of starting over.

Blogger Cloom Glue July 21, 2017 7:39 PM  

#28 I misunderstood the question. haha ... nevermind.

Blogger SirHamster July 21, 2017 7:42 PM  

Joe A. wrote:Perhaps a free e-book as a reward?

I'd be interested in a support tier that acts like a CH book subscription (get a copy of all new releases).

Vox's choice to price it at a discount (bulk buy bonus) or at a premium (support Vox, get a bonus).

Blogger David The Good July 21, 2017 8:14 PM  

Personally, I hate the entire Patreon thing. Just sell stuff instead.

Blogger Ceasar July 21, 2017 8:19 PM  

Any chance of setting up an email disto for willing recepients that could list all projects and where to help fund?

Blogger JimR July 21, 2017 8:39 PM  

Challenge coins, limited in number, and dated, strike new ones when the series 'sells' out. Quality ones, not the cheap plastic crap. I'd donate $100 for a decent one. I see them on Amz for $10 or less, have one Kek coin that sells for $7.77 so I am assuming that it costs significantly less to make in whatever quantities the company is making them in.

Blogger Forge the Sky July 21, 2017 9:03 PM  

Jordan Peterson has been mentioned 1-2x already, but it's relevant. The primary value people derive from VD's work isn't t-shirts or ebooks; it's a sense of purpose and direction, a sense that the sorts of values they hold matter. Jordan Peterson is in a similar circumstance.

His Patreon account gets him the better part of a million dollars a year, and I think most of that is simply because people trust he will use these funds in a manner that is useful and effective. Not because of the rewards. It is about his vision, and his perceived chance at implementing it.

VD has people following his endeavors for similar reasons (though his ideas are less palatable to the center). I think the way forward is to make visible, comprehensible moves toward enacting that vision and allowing people to support that as a general measure - rather than trying to drum up support for each venture individually. Accountability, (reasonable) transparency, and results will be crucial for continued support.

Fun things for small-level donors (maybe exclusive update livestreams sometimes) will just help to make the support seem 'real.' Some small degree of personal access - Q&A sessions, for example - for high-level donors - will do much more than some material crap. People aren't following VD for the t-shirts.

Anonymous Hawk Spitui July 21, 2017 9:09 PM  

I'd heard of this alternative. On the strength of the name alone, you've got to love it.

https://hatreon.us

Blogger Alfred Genesson July 21, 2017 9:13 PM  

Reward tier for Patreon like backing: posters of book covers. One a month. Moth & Cobweb, Appdendix N, and No Gods Only Daimons have great covers. Posters make sense, provide value, and can create interest in the books.

Blogger S. Misanthrope July 21, 2017 9:19 PM  

I like to pay content producers and would still donate to specific projects if I were also sending a little cash your way monthly. I don't care about the incentives/rewards and always tell the creators I sponsor not to send me any.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable July 21, 2017 9:29 PM  

Accountability, (reasonable) transparency, and results will be crucial for continued support.

To a certain extent this is true, certainly for relative newbies. But those of us who've been around for a while know who we're dealing with. Having watched Vox pretty closely for nearly a decade now, I'd probably toss money into a black hole on his recommendation, not because it would be guaranteed to pay off but because however weird the notion, it would likely end up mattering in some way.

Blogger lowercaseb July 21, 2017 9:31 PM  

I have to agree with the earlier folks. I'd love to support a personal account to pay back for content you produce daily. (I would not be exaggerating to say that Vox Popoli is one of the big motivators for me to lose 40 pounds since April.) However, if the administration wasn't too much of a time suck, it would be great to have separate project campaigns as well to contribute to as well. I support a lot of campaigns and it's helpful to me to keep track of what I am supporting at the end of the year.

As far as rewards...I get three or so posts a day, plus a video almost every day. I am pretty well rewarded.

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 9:36 PM  

1)

You should upload everything to YouTube as a minimum. You could upload the same videos to GabTV and then you are anti-fragile with a minimum of fuss and without compromising anything except upload bandwidth usage.

Suggestion for the reward is to do what Jordan Peterson does: Once per month, the paid supporters get to submit questions, Peterson answers what he thinks are the best questions, in a video which he uploads to his YouTube channel. (No gaurantee your question is answered but you at least get a shot once a month).

So the privelege of the paid supporters is to be able to submit a question, but the other viewers all benefit anyhow as they get to watch the video in which the questions are answered. So everybody is happy and actually the non-paid viewers are not excluded. It's a good straight-forward reward, easy to follow and does not complicate things too much, and only comes up once a month.

2)

No, keep those side projects project-oriented and crowd-funded where appropriate, but for your own video channel it should be open-ended and ongoing because the things you cover will be contingent upon emerging political and historical events, just as with your blog and your Darkstreams. There is no foreseeable end-point when we can say "OK, job's done". It's a much longer-term transcendent project of dissenting from, and building up a resistance to, the cultural destruction of Western Civilisation and the horrendous rotting of its foundations, as I see it anyhow. Just as the blog has no definable end-point, nor would the video channel, so best not make it project-oriented.

I think your first instinct when you first brought this up was the right one which was to (roughly) take a page from Stefan Molyneux. By the way I only learned about you from Molyneux's show, so I may be biased as I am a Stef fanboy.

In a way, what we are funding is the addition of a video channel version of the blog. As Jordan Peterson said, for the first time in human history the spoken word, via YouTube and such, is now able to rival the written word in terms of accessibility, the quality and quantity of what is available, the permanence and reproducability of the recording, and furthermore many people are able to listen at times of the day when they are not able to read due to work, driving, shopping, exercising, etc. Peterson also says when you provide good quality free content to people, eventually some of them feel they ought to pay something, even if they don't have to.

simple observation dictates that more people are more willing to support an individual on an ongoing basis than a specific project.

Yes. If we are asked to come up with a system of project goals or milestones with a number of concrete rewards then in a way we are being asked to provide direction for the activity, but if we can just fund somebody in whose vision we trust and who has a rock-solid track-record, then we are able to leave the direction to them, which is probably for the best and keeps things simple. E.g. when I'm donating to Stef, I know I am simply funding Stef Molyneux continuing to do Stef Molyneux stuff on YouTube, which is precisely what we want him to do and that's easy to follow and easy to understand. The religious analogy is, Christianity is complicated but even kids can follow Jesus because he's a man with a story you can follow. So when I'm supporting Stef it's just a linear extrapolation - "Keep going Stef, thanks for your great work, keep doing what you're doing! More of the same!". I don't have to know about Freedomain Radio and everything Stef is involved with, but I trust Stef, learn from him and appreciate what he provides through his channel, and know he is absolutely on the right track and is capable of leading the way. If you took a page from Stef then I think the people supporting your video channel would probably view it in a similar light.

Anonymous Patron July 21, 2017 9:42 PM  

What sort of rewards are of interest? Gab TV and a YouTube channel are all in the works.

For those who pay enough, Brainstorm membership seems like another obvious choice. Sneak previews of stuff (like your books) is another one, and of course a monthly Q&A (like Jordan Peterson and others do) might be worthwhile. You could also do Daily Meme Wars stuff, rank badges (I'm sure there's a Dread Ilk or VFM who can do some snazzy badges or banners people can use elsewhere to show their support)...

Should I simply focus on project-related crowdfunding instead? ... simple observation dictates that more people are more willing to support an individual on an ongoing basis than a specific project.

Most of the people in that category seem to do little else, though. You edit books, write books, run Castalia House (right?), oversee InfoGalactic, do game design work, are gearing up to launch Alt-Hero, oh, and you have one of those family things, do a bunch of behind-the-scenes stuff with Mike, Stefan, Milo et al... point is, there's a lot on your plate already, and this has the potential to be quite time-intensive, because people WILL be wanting more content from you all the time.

At any rate, I'd at least make sure you get the project-related stuff done, and after that, if people want to chip in a bit as a thank-you for the daily Darkstream etc, well why not.

Anonymous Stickwick July 21, 2017 9:45 PM  

David: Personally, I hate the entire Patreon thing. Just sell stuff instead.

I rather like it. There are a few people I support on Patreon, because mostly what they offer are videos and other intangible products that I find very helpful. The more they offer quality stuff for free, the more I want to contribute.

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 9:46 PM  

Gloriam Deo wrote:A reward level which allows the backer to email (or communicate one on one somehow) once a month with Vox would be interesting.



The problem is that Vox has limited time and this doesn't scale up very well.

Monthly Q&A ala Jordan Peterson would address this but be more manageable.

Blogger newanubis July 21, 2017 9:55 PM  

What may be of greater interest is a general corporate strucyure as in Vox Enterprises. DBA-Alt Hero. DBA-Infogalactic. CH, etc.

This way, funds for shares amass in the VE treasury and are allocated as needed to the various ventures as deemed appropriate by the board.

I would like to support all the ventures, having faith in Vox that those selected to spearhead the various undertakings represent the right guy in the right position.

Plus, the idea of an SJW-free enterprise my money supports is downright wood-worthy!

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 9:58 PM  

weka wrote:Tell those who want to support you to buy your books in hardback. Castalia house is Antifragile. Youtube, Patreon etc are not, and their replacements have not won.

That problem has already been solved.
For YouTube, demonetisation is generally the worst they've been doing so far.
But if YouTube falls, never fear - GabTV to the rescue.
Upload the videos on both - antifragile already.

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 10:00 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning July 21, 2017 10:05 PM  

Alfred Genesson wrote:Reward tier for Patreon like backing: posters of book covers...

A personalized, signed hard copy of a VD book and maybe also of certain other CH books.

Blogger Vikki Wilson July 21, 2017 10:06 PM  

I support several people via Patreon because I think they are doing important work. I contributed several large sums (for me) to Geert Wilders' legal defence fund.

I want to support. That's my "reward".
# 1
Getting "personal emails" from busy individuals is a distraction and, in the aggregate, quite onerous to those I want to support.

Blogger Vikki Wilson July 21, 2017 10:08 PM  

#1
Vox doesn't strike me as one of Nature's agony aunts.

Anonymous Post Alley Money Changing Crackpot July 21, 2017 10:11 PM  

"... both Brittany Pettibone and Lauren Southern were kicked off Patreon this week."

How about crowdfunding for a Patreon replacement?

Seriously, what happened to just shutting up and taking the money?

I don't get these social justice wankers at all.

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 10:12 PM  

David The Good wrote:Personally, I hate the entire Patreon thing. Just sell stuff instead.

CH already does that. So if you don't like the Patreon-style thing - just don't sign up to it. You can safely ignore it and carry on as you do.

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 10:17 PM  

I don't get these social justice wankers at all.

VD has written a book, entitled "SJW's Always Lie", on just this subject, you may be interested to read it.

Blogger D. July 21, 2017 10:19 PM  

Mr. Day,

A translation of "They have to go back" into the various
European tongues may be useful.

Blogger SirGroggy July 21, 2017 10:25 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 21, 2017 10:58 PM  

The more they offer quality stuff for free, the more I want to contribute.

It surprises me how well it works, because I remember shareware in the 1990s. For the youngsters: that was where you could freely download or copy software and use it, but if you liked it and wanted to keep using it after a trial period, you were supposed to pay for it. Almost no one ever did, so very few people ever made money distributing software that way. And no one felt bad about violating the license, either.

Something's changed. I think it's partly that the closer contact with the seller through social media makes the consumer feel more obligated, compared to when it was just a name and address in a nag screen. It's also a lot more convenient to make/take small payments now, and rewards provide an incentive. Whatever the reasons, I see people doing very well with it.

I soured on the idea originally because all I saw was blue-haired SJWs begging for money because they couldn't hold a job, or asking for donations for their tranny operations. But now that I've seen people using it to jumpstart and/or fund normal businesses, or for decent causes, I've gotten over that. It does seem to work as a funding model if you're providing regular content of some sort that people really appreciate.

Blogger DJ|Bonky July 21, 2017 11:12 PM  

Not obligated, but instead a partner in the work.

Anonymous Nick July 21, 2017 11:14 PM  

Three models that I am part of:

Vdare.com- quarterly PayPal donation of $25 that gets me a print edition of their quarterly journal (basically a best-of articles from that period)

Mark Steyn- annual $150 membership to become a "Founding Member of the Mark Steyn Club" includes a personally dedicated book of your choice (out of about 10 options) and the ability to comment on articles.

Rush Limbaugh- $75 for two years access to the website and podcast (I mainly do it for the podcast)

If there's one thing that's missing that I would be glad to pay for Vox it's a podcast. I'm a big fan of Mike's as well, but since hes gone all Periscope and stopped podcasting I barely watch since it's not convenient to do so. I go out of my way to watch each of your Darkstreams, but I'd MUCH rather listen on a podcast so I can do it when I'm at the gym or going about my day. The downside of what Rush does is that even though you can get the podcast through iTunes (special link through the member's website that subscribes you on iTunes) it doesn't sync with the Podcast app, you have to do it manually. I'd even be happy with an MP3 file of your Darkstreams to upload to my iPhone manually if need be.

The comment system on your blog leaves much to be desired too, I'd be glad just to see your comments and replies in an easier way than scrolling through all of them or searching for "VD". You don't promote Brainstorm memberships much, if you updated your offering I'd probably bite. I support Infogalactic monthly already.

Blogger SteelPalm July 21, 2017 11:40 PM  

I would go with 2), focusing on crowd-related projects. The problems with a Patreon-like system are twofold;

1) There is a large investment of time and energy in satisfying perks for the patrons. Considering all your other projects, it might be too much, especially since there is a possibility of overlap with Brainstorm members.

2) As you noted, a Patreon might simply redirect support that would otherwise go to Infogalactic, which is also a monthly subscription.

But a one-time project? That's probably the way to go. (And remember, you can always switch to a Patreon at some point in the future when considerations change)

Anonymous soutlan July 21, 2017 11:48 PM  

1) To hear SJW squees turn to shrieks of dismay is reward enough.

2) I suggest both. If I had to choose one option, I'd go with project funding.

Blogger Gospace July 21, 2017 11:52 PM  

I subscribe to changing content on only one internet site- gocomics.com. No one newspaper carries all the comics they do, and it's nice to get a daily dose of humor, ad free, in my inbox each day.

I might support a crowd funded project if it looked worthwhile, to me. I'm not a gamer, so crowdfunding games is out.

I have bought ebooks from various sites, not just Amazon. Baen is the one I frequent most after Amazon. Most content provider sites I expect to be ad supported in one way or another, and I don't mind static ads sitting on the page like they do on a newspaper. I hate autoplay and pop-ups/unders. I looked at Patreon briefly, and it appears a little like kickstarter. I've bought one album from kickstarter from an established artist I like who couldn't get studio support for another album. And custom sized sandals that I'm still waiting on. And I've looked at, but not purchased a whole bunch of other things. A lot of kickstarter items I see are just Chinese merchandise repackaged and improved. And not worth it. Where do I see all the kickstarter items? They show up on my facebook page with a link. I have checked out Castalia House but haven't purchased anything yet.

If you started up a facebook type platform with no censorship, I'd very likely set up a profile, and encourage others to do the same. I use facebook to keep up with far flung family and friends. With work and play and time zone differences, it's much easier to post and read on facebook then it is to even call. As if anyone answered their phones, anyway. I get better response from my own children by texting them.

Blogger dfordoom July 22, 2017 12:32 AM  

@47. Deplorable Winning

A personalized, signed hard copy of a VD book and maybe also of certain other CH books.

I like the idea of signed copies of books as well. Something with a personal touch like that is worth more than baubles.

Anonymous Ignaz Semmelweiss July 22, 2017 1:38 AM  

1. T-shirts and/or e-books.

2. Do both. Cernovich is now telling his crowd (I paraphrase)

"Give to these specific projects (Hoaxed, CernoPAC, etc.) and I get 0% of the money - it ALL goes to others/reinvested for future projects. If you want to support ME then buy my books."

Anonymous Carlos Danger July 22, 2017 4:38 AM  

I would like to see a variety of special purpose channels, some benign like a home improvement or DIY style video upload channel to a series of politically focused documentary channel or channels. Would love to see no prisoners style sci fi films too.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 22, 2017 5:36 AM  

I'm unsure if anyone mentioned it in the comments, but give rootbocks.com a gander. It's about a week old.

Blogger Orville July 22, 2017 9:50 AM  

Personally, I hate the entire Patreon thing. Just sell stuff instead.

Patronage has produced many fine things over the centuries, but I'm with David on this one. Maybe it's because I see so much panhandling everywhere I go, whether the real or supposed homeless, or just mom's and their kids bumming money on a street corner for sports camp. Then again, we wouldn't have much from Mozart without his benefactors support.

OTH crowd sourcing ideas and/or work, as suggested above, is a great way to build community cohesion. Example, I enjoyed the several opportunities to spare you from the slush pile. I learned from it, and you got some additional time and the intagible that I'm even more interested in CH products.

Blogger Orville July 22, 2017 9:56 AM  

Peterson also says when you provide good quality free content to people, eventually some of them feel they ought to pay something, even if they don't have to.

Ditto what Sir Groggy said. The best marketers like Jeff Walker and others, overwhelm you with loads of quality free content leading up to the sale. Plus, you can rightly charge a higher price for the patronage doing so.

Blogger Kerryman86 July 22, 2017 10:03 AM  

Henry Ford

My best friend is the one who brings out the best in me.

Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.


If there is any one secret of success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as well as from your own.

The competitor to be feared is one who never bothers about you at all, but goes on making his own business better all the time.

Wealth, like happiness, is never attained when sought after directly. It comes as a by-product of providing a useful service.

Try to seek the best talented self motivated honorable men you can find, reward them as if it was you in there shoes, show leadership, courage, integrity, humility and strength. Always strive to make the seemingly impossible an achievable goal and watch the windows of possibility explode before your eyes.

Blogger VD July 22, 2017 10:17 AM  

Maybe it's because I see so much panhandling everywhere I go, whether the real or supposed homeless, or just mom's and their kids bumming money on a street corner for sports camp.

Says the guy commenting on the free site....

See, that's the thing. People simply devalue what is offered to them freely. It's just a fact of life. Now, I'm never going to lock down or paywall the blog. It will always be free. But I find it a bit ironic to have it suggested that a Patreon would be "panhandling" by people who would almost certainly object to the blog going to a paywall model.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 22, 2017 11:20 AM  

That's the thing: the ad-supported free-content model, where you start a blog or something and get a check for putting context-based ad units around it, is a bubble that's been inflating for years and it starting to pop. Click rates and per-click payments keep dropping; YouTube just slashed the cut that creators get. People who need to get paid for their content (which isn't everyone; many use free content to funnel viewers to other products or services) are going to have to find other models. Subscriptions are one model, patronage is another. Some successful ones I've seen get paid enough by patrons that they're able to give a lot of stuff away for free, which seems pretty win-win for everyone.

The one downside I've seen is that some patrons get kinda possessive and feel like they're "owed" more than is specifically promised in the deal. Part of the sense of being a partner in a cooperative endeavor, I guess. If you're a people-person or someone who frets over each lost subscriber and can be manipulated through that, it might not be for you. I don't think Vox would have too much trouble with that.

Blogger Matthew July 22, 2017 11:25 AM  

I'd love to write a commenting system where paid members have access to extra features. Viz. ostracism, where if enough people hate you, you're banned for a month.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning July 22, 2017 11:31 AM  

1) What sort of rewards are of interest?

A silvered-skull goblet (or set) with an appropriate inscription.

Blogger Nym Coy July 22, 2017 12:02 PM  

I give to Stefan without any reward, just to support him. Maybe move brainstorm membership to the patreon rewards? I think a lot of people are unaware how to subscribe to that.

Blogger VD July 22, 2017 12:11 PM  

I give to Stefan without any reward, just to support him. Maybe move brainstorm membership to the patreon rewards? I think a lot of people are unaware how to subscribe to that.

We will do that, eventually.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 22, 2017 12:18 PM  

No thoughts, except that patronage from peasants is not a sustainable model for anyone except religious leaders.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 22, 2017 12:18 PM  

That's not meant to be defeatist- the short term is important too.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning July 22, 2017 12:20 PM  

1) What sort of rewards are of interest?

A punching bag that bears a remarkable resemblance to John Scalzi's head.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 22, 2017 12:22 PM  

Culture is traditionally funded by peasants buying it directly, aristocrats funding it from taxes/rent/tithes, or artists donating their free time.

The good news for the former model is there's nothing on Netflix I want to watch.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning July 22, 2017 12:24 PM  

Deplorable Winning wrote:1) What sort of rewards are of interest?

A punching bag that bears a remarkable resemblance to John Scalzi's head.


Along with an instructional Darkstream to demonstrate proper form.

Blogger Orville July 22, 2017 1:19 PM  

People simply devalue what is offered to them freely.

Not all of us. This blog has directly and indirectly lead to a lot of personal transformation. I'm not alone in saying that.

I think you should profit, and I would certainly pay for it knowing your track record.

Have you considered a lecture series that people could subscribe to? I've paid over $500 to belong to one such group where I can revisit the modules, and where new ones are added occasionally. There are some really great platforms that make it fairly easy to market and manage that kind of online material.

Anonymous Killua July 22, 2017 1:56 PM  

How about paying supporters in some form of publicity? Like, if they give some money you promote their blog/website here.

The disadvantage is this only incentivises people who have their own blog/produce content, and that is a minority of people.

Anonymous Constantine the Great July 22, 2017 11:30 PM  

Would a platform regardless of ideology be of interest to anyone? Or maybe an alt right only patreon be of interest? In my day job I develop web platforms for a Fortune 10 company. I am not sure if I have the time or resources for it but if there is interest I could try and divert some of my time to it.

Blogger Flair1239 July 23, 2017 12:13 AM  

I like being able to give $25-$35 a month.

Special projects are interesting sometimes. But really I am paying for someone to sort the noise Out of the daily information in an entertaining way.

So when I give someone a monthly payment, it is more because I like what they are currently doing, rather than what they may due in the future.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable July 23, 2017 3:04 AM  

I would do a Patreon-like thing for Robert Stacy McCain because he's doing a valuable, unique service that I already intermittently PayPal to support. For you?

A philosophy of peon patronage of Vox Day must account for how many pans he has in the fire already. At the same time, bonuses based on stuff you already have available are lame, and for ones that don't exist yet are better placed in their respective crowdfunding.

So Ingot9455's notion of a 'funnel' idea has merit, but would remove the price signal so prized by capitalists.

And small decisions have darn near as much cognitive cost as big ones, so... don't do the 'just one question' thing. Unless it's for a lot.

As I consider it, VD has a force multiplier in the VFM that mostly lies fallow. So that would maybe be a direction to go in, if for some funding level you could request for the SDL of the ELE to take a serious look at thus-and-such situation, to see if they would be an appropriate resource to be deployed.

A serious decision to make. But at least he'd consider it.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 23, 2017 5:57 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 23, 2017 5:58 AM  

I'm punchy and my last comment was poorly communicated. Basically, a tip jar that can process values in nickel, rather than dollar, increments could really add up quick. Such a program might not solely sustain anyone, but it would certainly help matters if such a thing existed.

Blogger idprism July 24, 2017 1:44 AM  

Whatever you do, please leave some room for those of us who are already nickeled and dimed to death.

The people I support on patreon, I support with $1-$2 /month and I am happy to contribute and get my minor rewards for patronage and miss out on the "nicer" stuff that they produce or offer (personal video chats with creators and all that fun stuff). This way I can support about 5-10 people and get little news and tidbits from them while supporting.

The people who offer a minimum tier of $5 to get any patron-only content, I just skip.

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