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Thursday, August 31, 2017

Alt-Internet

Slate planned a hit piece on the Alt-Tech movement, then realized that perhaps the Alt-Right may have a point with regards to Internet censorship being an all-too-slippery slope.
However distasteful its views, the alt-right has smartly framed its battle in terms of “free speech.” This argument has currency elsewhere on the right, too. President Trump is fond of calling out Amazon, perhaps chiefly because of Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos’ ownership of the Washington Post. Fox News’ Tucker Carlson said on his show earlier this month that “Google should be regulated like the public utility it is, to make sure it doesn’t further distort the free flow of information to the rest of us.” Former Trump aide and Breitbart executive chairman Steve Bannon has also argued that tech platforms should be regulated like utilities. Combined with Democrats making antitrust regulation a central tenet of their new policy platform, the internet’s gatekeepers could soon be put on notice as never before.

It would be hard not to spot the irony if one of the most significant threats to big tech’s monopolistic power ends up being caused by hate groups. Gab’s Sanduja believes that Apple and Google shutting out his company from their app marketplaces prevents it from accessing 70 to 75 percent of its potential U.S. market. Even if you agree with banning Gab, the power of a handful of companies to banish anyone from the internet should give you pause. And it is one reason why the arguments of alt-tech advocates may find more and more friendly ears in Silicon Valley, where many entrepreneurs increasingly worry they can’t compete.

It’s also hard not to see this conundrum as big tech’s fault from the start. In a way, the alt-right is calling out the essential tension of the major internet companies, which espouse “don’t be evil” philosophies and want to “bring the world closer together,” yet also owe their popularity (and profits) to an internet where seemingly anything goes, until they say it doesn’t. Banning Nazis may be a perfectly defensible stance, but given the inconsistent transparency and enforcement of community guidelines from tech companies, it also has the whiff of the arbitrary.

In a more plural market, Facebook and Google and GoDaddy would be just as free to boot odious ideologies—but they wouldn’t face the same accusations of speech suppression, because places like Daily Stormer would have more places to go for their social-networking and domain-hosting needs. The early ideal of the internet was that of a great commons where all kinds of diverse opinions could be shared, where people could come to understand each other and to be convinced of new, challenging ideas. That particular utopian wish list may have always been naïve, but the notion that an open internet should not be controlled by a small group of corporations beholden only to shareholders continues to hold sway for a reason. Facebook was only ever supposed to be part of the public commons; the walled garden was never meant to subsume it.

Which may be why Gab and its Free Speech Tech Alliance has gained the trust of Nazis but can also invoke the rhetoric of left-wing antitrusters—well, to a point. “If Google and Apple are straight-up corporations for their political sides, they should openly declare their discriminatory behavior. They should be proud of it,” said Gab’s Sanduja. “They should not be mendacious and talk about change and be different. Stop engaging in sophistry. Come out to us as the major SJW platforms you are.”
The funny thing was that they really wanted to talk to Gab's Torba, not Sanduja. Because, of course, Sanduja didn't fit the original intended Narrative of Alt-Tech being nothing but white supremacist Nazis.

Labels: ,

102 Comments:

Anonymous TheSmokingMan#3424 August 31, 2017 12:52 PM  

the wheels on the bus are coming off...
coming off...
coming off...

Blogger Elmer Jones August 31, 2017 12:53 PM  

Apple funds SPLC. Amazon owns WaPo and now Whole Foods. Everything WaPo publishes is to support Amazon feeding at the EBT trough. It's profiting off Black Bodies, people. See Genius T. Coates.

Blogger LP9 August 31, 2017 1:00 PM  

Sure 2; six eight corps run the world so to speak. EBT pple are not really into health foods but I can be wrong.

Critics are about to HAVE TO kiss the ring of these outlets;

Castalia House
Infogalactic
IG News | IG Tech

The hit piece writer didn't even read the 16 pts thus entire article is null and void, if you can, give Gab.ai at startengine $201, load your kindle with great books, pertinent to this matter is the 4gw handbook, must read.

I'[m thrilled for alt tech as the gatekeepers are crying in their coffee as googles evil and fakeness got exposed, wonderful times.

Blogger Silly but True August 31, 2017 1:01 PM  

Never forget that these people tolerated, nay, - supported - all manner of horrible depravity and crimes including bestiality porn, child porn and facilitating underage sex trafficking.

But, Daily Stormer was the bridge too far.

Silly but True

Blogger Student in Blue August 31, 2017 1:05 PM  

LP9, I don't think Alt-Tech is the same thing as the Alt-Right.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 31, 2017 1:09 PM  

The framing of the article is interesting. They're pushing hard the "alt-right Neo-Nazi" association, but even the writer can't avoid the 800,000 pound elephant in the room. In Slate, no less.

My sense after the Great Purge started that Anglin & Weev might have trolled the Internet so hard to start the downfall of Web 2.0 and the current Silicon Valley oligarchs is starting to look real. Also, there's going to be a lot of money to be made there. Clearly, it's starting to filter through.

Also, @u is pretty dang awesome at these interviews. I love that Gab has taken your Media approach to heart.

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 1:15 PM  

" the walled garden was never meant to subsume it."

walled garden.

gee... where have we heard that phrase before...

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 1:17 PM  

"But, Daily Stormer was the bridge too far."

Anglin made an incredibly stupid mistake of claiming that Cloudfare was with them ideologically.

it was completely retarded. He was literally asking to get thrown out.

Anonymous fop August 31, 2017 1:25 PM  

Sanduja must be one of those "high-caste" Nazis.

OpenID doktorjeep August 31, 2017 1:28 PM  

Bake the cake

Anonymous glosoli August 31, 2017 1:32 PM  

Trigger the libtard (or the alt-righter?) with the following:

'There is no free speech, never has been, and never will be. Just restricted speech'

https://infogalactic.com/info/United_States_free_speech_exceptions

Choose your authority wisely. Choose God, and Godly men, not politicians or heathens.

(Aside: I wonder who invented the terms 'boy/girlfriend' for someone with whom you casually fornicate? Apparently it emerged in the early 1900s, same time as a load of other leftist BS).

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2017 1:35 PM  

All those words, no mention of Infogalactic. Slate demonstrates their function as "gatekeeper of the walled garden".

Blogger Dirtnapninja August 31, 2017 1:39 PM  

My guess is that they are worried that the internet havens of their far left antifa pets are about to be threatened.

Blogger Thomas Henderson August 31, 2017 1:39 PM  

It would be hard not to spot the irony if one of the most significant threats to big tech’s monopolistic power ends up being caused by hate groups.

This Slate writer is un-self aware. Ms. Glaser is on the side of angels where dissent from the narrative is, by default, hateful.

As Ann Coulter said not long ago: "When liberals club people, it is with love in their hearts."

Anonymous kfg August 31, 2017 1:44 PM  

"It would be hard not to spot the irony if one of the most significant threats to big tech’s monopolistic power ends up being caused by hate groups . . ."

It is only irony to you. It is utterly predictable to The Deplorable People. It's like you're playing Stratego with your own pieces blanked to you.

Blogger VD August 31, 2017 1:46 PM  

All those words, no mention of Infogalactic. Slate demonstrates their function as "gatekeeper of the walled garden".

We didn't talk to them. Also, we can't be reasonably characterized as being Alt-Right, or really, anything political, since neutrality is designed into it.

Blogger Elmer Jones August 31, 2017 1:49 PM  

LP9 : EBT pple are not really into health foods but I can be wrong.

In this case you are wrong. Not only do hipsters use food stamps but Whole Foods is expanding into under-served communities. You will soon hear news about Amazon's commitment to serving vibrant neighborhoods and people of color.

Blogger Kentucky Headhunter August 31, 2017 1:50 PM  

but the notion that an open internet should not be controlled by a small group of corporations beholden only to shareholders...

The shareholders aren't throwing people off the internet or donating millions of dollars to SPLC, CEOs are and generally are not held accountable as long as the quarterly report is smiles all around.

Here's hoping that Camping world idiot will be seen with a bindle over his shoulder down by the railyard real soon.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 2:02 PM  

Surprisingly honest article for Slate. So much so that I wouldn't be surprised if those responsible get some heat for it.

But, Daily Stormer was the bridge too far.

Similarly, last I checked, Dreamhost is still fighting the DoJ on behalf of Antifa. But they dumped Daily Stormer's domain registration within 24 hours. They claimed a technical ToS violation for it, but it was really because they came under DDOS attack. In July they posted on their blog about how they welcome "hate speech that makes your skin crawl," but in reality....not so much. Depends on who hates whom.

Whatever happened between Stormer and Cloudflare, at this point, none of these companies are even pretending it's about Nazis or real violations of rules anymore. Ron Paul is getting demonetized on YouTube, for cripes sake.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2017 2:07 PM  

@16 VD
We didn't talk to them. Also, we can't be reasonably characterized as being Alt-Right, or really, anything political, since neutrality is designed into it.

Just as well that they didn't talk to IG. But Infogalactic is an alternative source. A real journo-list would have found out about it in the course of researching the alternative web. The leftards really are not competent at this whole "learn about other people's ideas" thing.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 2:08 PM  

"Surprisingly honest article for Slate."

For a leftist publication, that usually means someone is about to get fired.

Blogger Desdichado August 31, 2017 2:11 PM  

Even WaPo just posted an article where they're "troubled" by the "problematic" influence Google has. The writing's on the wall for Big Tech. When people on both sides of the aisle are all saying the same thing, it's just a question of them getting around to it.

Blogger Sevron August 31, 2017 2:15 PM  

My understanding wrt to Daily Stormer was a reader made a comment that CloudFlare supported DS, not Anglin himself. If so, this was total bullshit from the start.

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 2:16 PM  

"We didn't talk to them. Also, we can't be reasonably characterized as being Alt-Right, or really, anything political, since neutrality is designed into it."

I suppose Gab could make the same claim. Gab is neutral. Of course Gab spoke to them...

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2017 2:20 PM  

My understanding wrt to Daily Stormer was a reader made a comment that CloudFlare supported DS, not Anglin himself.

Moot point.
Read @19. The YouTube / Goolag commissars are going after Ron Paul. The Silicon Valley SJW purity spiral will continue until it is stopped or it eats itself. Perhaps that last bit is what's inspiring some of these throat-clearing, "well, hmm" pieces in Slate and the Jeff Bezos blog.

Anonymous Difster August 31, 2017 2:34 PM  

The article starts off with a big fat lie. What we're striving to build has nothing to do with whether or not we're "welcome" on the internet. That just sounds like we're butthurt. No, Alt-Tech is happening because we're being actively shut-out and being deplatformed.

Blogger DonReynolds August 31, 2017 2:35 PM  

"In a way, the alt-right is calling out the essential tension of the major internet companies, which espouse “don’t be evil” philosophies and want to “bring the world closer together,” yet also owe their popularity (and profits) to an internet where seemingly anything goes, until they say it doesn’t."

"In a way", they get it completely wrong.

"Don't do evil" does not mean do not do evil things. It does not mean do not say evil things, except that evil is defined as whatever contradicts the Liberal Leftist freakin agenda.

Confederates are not evil. The Founding Fathers of this country are not evil. Joan of Arc is not evil. Christopher Columbus is not evil. To doubt that global warming is caused by human activity is not evil. To admit that crime is disproportionately committed by one or two ethnic groups is not evil. To admit that unchecked flooding of our domestic labor markets with foreign citizens (illegally) has an adverse effect in a country with 95 million citizens already pushed out of the labor market is not evil. To agree with the president is not evil. To vote Republican is not evil.

To "bring the world closer together" does not include displacing our own citizens with foreign citizens. It does not mean that Federal immigration laws cannot be enforced. It does not mean that Muslim terrorists have a right or a religious duty to murder our own citizens or rape our female relatives. It does not mean we will look the other way when the same terrorists toss homosexuals off tall buildings or behead prisoners and civilians. "Bringing the world closer together" does not mean switching alliances from old friends to older enemies. It does not mean we should split the country in two, alienating half of our own countrymen, in order to curry favor with our most determined enemies.

They really do not get it at all.

Blogger Bruce Wayne August 31, 2017 2:43 PM  

Andrew Anglin has become the poster child for free speech.

God works in mysterious ways indeed.

Anonymous IContainMultitudes August 31, 2017 2:43 PM  

Leftists troubled by extensive centralized control? I suspect that's too much to hope for.

Anonymous Thales August 31, 2017 2:47 PM  

...has started his own alt-right crowdfunding platform called Counter.Fund. There’s also Hatreon, a free speech–centric Patreon alternative, which states in its guidelines that “Hate speech is protected speech.” There’s an alt-right-friendly version of Wikipedia called Metapedia. There’s even a small alt-right dating website, Wasp.love...

Free advertising! Just make sure they get the hyperlinks right.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 31, 2017 3:02 PM  

@8 Nate
"But, Daily Stormer was the bridge too far."

"Anglin made an incredibly stupid mistake of claiming that Cloudfare was with them ideologically"

Citation needed.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 31, 2017 3:12 PM  

Apple funds SPLC. Amazon owns WaPo and now Whole Foods. Everything WaPo publishes is to support Amazon feeding at the EBT trough. It's profiting off Black Bodies, people. See Genius T. Coates.

Your math doesn't work. Why would Amazon spend 14 billion to enter a market that is a total of 70 billion?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 31, 2017 3:13 PM  

"The early ideal of the internet was that of a great commons where all kinds of diverse opinions could be shared, where people could come to understand each other and to be convinced of new, challenging ideas. That particular utopian wish list may have always been naïve"

Reading between the lines here, it appears that what they meant by this was "B-b-but the other side was supposed to be convinced by our ideas!"

Anonymous Merv Geffen August 31, 2017 3:19 PM  

Earth to white men Earth to white men. ALL People of Color agree that you racists should be kicked off this planet! We need equality to be a priority not all of your privilege and hate!

What you want is to be able to harass people and stir shit in mainstream venues, and the left and center won't move to Gab to mainstream it

Bigotry is bad for business, no one wants to associate their brand with racists! What did you expect when you came out from under rocks?

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr August 31, 2017 3:20 PM  

What's shocking about the YouTube business is how very broad a net they cast. Like demonetizing reviews of antique firearms.

Somehow, I don't think someone shooting a flintlock musket is a Very Bad Person.

Blogger Quilp August 31, 2017 3:25 PM  

"The early ideal of the internet was that of a great commons where all kinds of diverse opinions could be shared, where people could come to understand each other and to be convinced of new, challenging ideas. "

I remember the university free nets, and I don't recall any such utopian thinking even back then. History always has to be altered for better or worse by the SJW's in order to push the narrative of the present.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2017 3:25 PM  

Over 2 hours 15 minutes for the first shill to show up and it's probably just one of the regular pests. Holiday weekend in the US, but what about India?

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 3:29 PM  

"Citation needed."

hardly.

Google is your friend. The CEO of cloudfare specifically said the claim is what pissed him off.

If it was a commenter or Anglin himself I couldn't care less. It doesn't matter. differentiating between which strategic idiot made yet another strategic mistake is really nothing I care to bother with.

At some point they are going to have to stop crapping their pants.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 31, 2017 3:33 PM  

@35 Napoleon

But any kind of a gun ever is bad and evil! EVIL!!

Blogger dh August 31, 2017 3:35 PM  

I remember the university free nets, and I don't recall any such utopian thinking even back then. History always has to be altered for better or worse by the SJW's in order to push the narrative of the present.

Isn't that the truth. There was no concept of the "commons" back at the beginning. Even Tim Berners-Lee, who is a nice guy but also sort of a dolt, never envisioned the web as a "commons" or a place for any of that.

It's always the non-technical people who can take a protocol and layer in emotion, utopian ideas, and fantasy land thinking.

Blogger Student in Blue August 31, 2017 3:37 PM  

@34. Merv Geffen

On a scale of 1 to 10, how mad are you that we have a sizable number of women and people of color who are on our side?

Blogger tz August 31, 2017 3:42 PM  

1. Free Speech's main problem is prior restraint. You can speak a true threat, copyrighted material, incitements, "fire" to cause a stampede, but you will face consequences.
2. Gab seems to merely ban things which are specifically illegal or directed to hurt a specific person (e.g. revenge porn). "Political Speech" IS completely free. No idea is going to be censored - though it might be debated.
3. "Walled Garden" is a prison farm for the fanbois that don't recognize the incarceration. Tim Cook is the feudal lord they pledge an oath of fealty to when they click "I agree".

Blogger dh August 31, 2017 3:45 PM  

Bigotry is bad for business, no one wants to associate their brand with racists! What did you expect when you came out from under rocks?

This remains to be seen, actually.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 3:52 PM  

it appears that what they meant by this was "B-b-but the other side was supposed to be convinced by our ideas!"

That's exactly what they meant. A lot of SJWs got online in the last decade or so and assumed that their bubbles represented the entire Internet, and that any "debate" that went on would have the same sort of boundaries and result as what they experienced in college. They had no real conception of the wide-open nature of what went before, and never thought about the fact that their freedom to discuss pot smoking and law-breaking meant other people were also free to talk about bringing back the Third Reich -- and that some were doing so long before they came around.

I remember the university free nets, and I don't recall any such utopian thinking even back then.

Yes, that's highly overstated. There was some of that sentiment early on, especially at places like Berkeley. The book Hackers talks about people at Berkeley who wanted to put networked kiosks around the city so that the public could use them to create world peace through better communcations or something. But that was in the 1960s and 70s, and it never really happened.

By the time of the personal computer boom of the 1980s and the networking boom of the 90s, it was about, "Hey, here's a cool thing we can do." If we hook computers together, we can play games against each other. We can read files in digital libraries at universities. We can team up to analyze radio waves from space for signs of intelligent life. We can buy/sell/share software without having to mess with disks in the postal mail. There wasn't much organized planning behind it, just a lot of people doing things that sounded cool.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 3:53 PM  

I can't find a direct quote of Anglin claiming that Cloudfare supported Daily Stormer in an ideological sense. According to Anglin's blog, he was just saying that their site was supported and protected by Cloudfare in a tech sense.

Anglin's version of the story makes sense, which means that Cloudfare has intentionally misrepresented the nature of Anglin's original statement in order to excuse its act of censorship. It's almost as though SJWs always lie or something.

Blogger Feather Blade August 31, 2017 4:01 PM  

Desdichado wrote:Even WaPo just posted an article where they're "troubled" by the "problematic" influence Google has.

Well, that's got to be slightly awkward for Bezos.

Blogger szopen August 31, 2017 4:06 PM  

Truth has strange attraction, speaking to the torturers even when tormented and trampled, always whispering even to the unwilling. And that's why, over the long term, truth must win.

And I hope, looking over the average lifespan of my grandparents, that I will still be alive to witness this tryumph.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 4:07 PM  

The CEO of cloudfare specifically said the claim is what pissed him off.

Yes, he did. I'd like to see the claim he's talking about before taking his word for it, though. I have no reason to believe Anglin, but he's not the one making a claim about being defamed; Cloudshare is. If I were in the CEO's position and about to take what was clearly going to be a controversial action, I'd damn sure keep a screenshot. Maybe that's out there and I just haven't seen it.

Anonymous Nike August 31, 2017 4:15 PM  

OT - white nerdy libertarian creates website to find a girlfriend... gets attacked by howling femcunts and SJWs:

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/should-you-date-nate/

http://www.refinery29.com/2017/08/169606/should-you-date-nate-website-internet-reactions

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a12106109/date-nate-website/

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 4:17 PM  

If Cloudfare felt that it had been libeled, wouldn't it have made sense for Cloudfare to demand that Daily Stormer carry a prominent retraction instead of just outright banning them? But they didn't.

Cloudfare's CEO even (and I'm paraphrasing here) described his banning of Daily Stormer as arbitrary and troublesome; something that no single individual should have the power to do. It's doubtful that he would have described his action that way if it was a legitimate response to defamatory speech from Anglin.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 31, 2017 4:20 PM  

@38 Nate
"Citation needed."

"hardly"

I'll explain it further-- and more slowly this time. Not a citation documenting that the Cloudflare CEO made this assertion. A citation document that this assertion has at least some passing relationship with reality. Sorry, but your laziness, and willingness to parrot someone else's unsupported assertions, is hardly my fault, now is it?

Blogger LP9 August 31, 2017 4:20 PM  

5 Thank you for pointing my confusion out, my comment above is hilariously null and void.

Anonymous BGKB August 31, 2017 4:33 PM  

Bigotry is bad for business, no one wants to associate their brand with racists! What did you expect when you came out from under rocks?

Are you kidding me people whisper the names of all white employee nursing homes & draw pirate maps to them.

Bake the cake Make it red velvet

Here's hoping that Camping world idiot will be seen with a bindle over his shoulder down by the railyard real soon

Big RV show sep13-17 I know there is ilk in PA Less than $7 for 2 black/white posters at staples.
http://www.visithersheyharrisburg.org/event/detail/americas-largest-rv-show/4889/

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 4:38 PM  

If Cloudfare felt that it had been libeled, wouldn't it have made sense for Cloudfare to demand that Daily Stormer carry a prominent retraction instead of just outright banning them?

Yes. I haven't read Cloudflare's contracts, but my own provider's ToS/AUP says that if a web site hosted on my server breaks their policies, I will be contacted so that I can deal with the offender within a reasonable time frame. They may take the site offline in the meantime if the offense is serious enough (normally they're talking about spam or DDOS attacks that can't wait). But this business of "You've got 24 hours to get your shit and get out" really is unprecedented.

And when other companies follow suit -- especially when they're not even being asked to host any content, just to register the domain name -- that's gotten ridiculous.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club August 31, 2017 4:47 PM  

I remember the university free nets, and I don't recall any such utopian thinking even back then.

The "internet" was just geek stuff until Al Gore invented it and then it turned all Star Trek utopian. Of course, "technology will save us!" is a lefty/Marxist materialist favorite.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2017 4:53 PM  

Geeze, it's not like the Cloudflare incident happened years ago.
Vox posted about it on the 8th of this month

The article by Cloudflare's CEO is still resident.

This quote:
Beyond the horrible content, the Daily Stormer began claiming that we secretly supported their ideology, causing a major distraction to our team. Firing a Nazi customer gets you glowing notes from around the world thanking you for standing up to hate.

is still available. CEO Prince admits between the lines that his decision was made emotionally.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2017 4:54 PM  

And when other companies follow suit -- especially when they're not even being asked to host any content, just to register the domain name -- that's gotten ridiculous.

They don't want to risk wearing the scarlet N.

Blogger Peter Jackson August 31, 2017 5:01 PM  

Banning Nazis may be a perfectly defensible stance...

No, it's not.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 5:06 PM  

@55 But lately the internet has really gone downhill with all the censorship, and the shiny utopian feel is gone. I blame climate change.

Blogger Peter Jackson August 31, 2017 5:08 PM  

Banning Nazis may be a perfectly defensible stance...

To clarify, if, as is the case, the Nazis are so small in number as to be irrelevant politically, then there's no harm in publishing their views on the internet. If they are relevant politically, then they have a right to be heard.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 31, 2017 5:09 PM  

"Cloudfare's CEO even (and I'm paraphrasing here) described his banning of Daily Stormer as arbitrary and troublesome; something that no single individual should have the power to do"

He actually seemed to overdo the whole "I did it. Me. Myself. On a whim. No one else influenced my decision. Not in the slightest way. Unh unh." thing.

Anonymous Mr Hyde August 31, 2017 5:13 PM  

The Alternet

Blogger Ezekiel August 31, 2017 5:14 PM  

“Google should be regulated like the public utility it is, to make sure it doesn’t further distort the free flow of information to the rest of us.”

Is this really a good idea... or will it just lead to the concept of deplatforming spreading to other public utilities so that, when they take your website down, they also turn off your water and power?

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 5:20 PM  

"Sorry, but your laziness, and willingness to parrot someone else's unsupported assertions, is hardly my fault, now is it?"

This was a major news story. its not my laziness... its my not caring enough about the opinion of someone so grossly uninformed to bother.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 5:28 PM  

What it all boils down to is that we have no evidence that the Cloudfare CEO, Prince, is telling the truth about Anglin's supposed claim that Cloudfare backed Daily Stormer ideologically. And there's no good reason to take Prince's word over Anglin's.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 5:34 PM  

We're going to have a long debate internally about whether we need to remove the bullet about not terminating a customer due to political pressure. It's powerful to be able to say you've never done something. And, after today, make no mistake, it will be a little bit harder for us to argue against a government somewhere pressuring us into taking down a site they don't like.

From https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/

Cloudfare's claims aren't consistent or well defined. On the one hand they suggest they were defamed, on the other they suggest that they bowed to political pressure.

Blogger Weouro August 31, 2017 5:36 PM  

Alternet

Blogger Weouro August 31, 2017 5:37 PM  

Nevermind, probably been said

Blogger LP9 August 31, 2017 5:38 PM  

17 well in WV, (we in WV have to farm and farm) OH its Poverty Row but in PX EBT sure its giant eagle special nongmo foods.

5 love your comments, its just the moment I saw those some symbols flashed leading the piece I just thought they never read the 16pts.

Blogger DonReynolds August 31, 2017 6:12 PM  

Peter Jackson wrote:Banning Nazis may be a perfectly defensible stance...

To clarify, if, as is the case, the Nazis are so small in number as to be irrelevant politically, then there's no harm in publishing their views on the internet. If they are relevant politically, then they have a right to be heard.


I think we can be a bit more assertive than that and imagine a General Rule, which most of us have always been governed by, that should apply to everybody else too.....

If you are on the internet and there is someone you do not like, that is your problem.....not theirs.

WE have waaaay too many people who insist that their preferences, grudges, historical feuds, and beefs are somehow important enough to drive the people they dislike, or disapprove of, or feel owe them a pint of blood, from the internet. They are sadly mistaken. Their tender sensibilities are not nearly that important to anyone else.

If EVERYONE on the internet were bumped off or banned because there was SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE who objected to them being there.....we would not have the internet, we would have CompuServe or AOL.

Those who appreciate Freedom and the Internet need to step up and say in a single voice.....YOUR gripes and feuds mean nothing to anybody else. As long as they are not doing anything illegal, you need to take your troubles elsewhere. If they are doing anything illegal, you should call the FBI. In the meantime, STFU.

Blogger Kristophr August 31, 2017 6:17 PM  

Francis:

Your whining is noted, and ignored. We Don't Care.

Anonymous johnc August 31, 2017 6:18 PM  

Anglin is hardly the only example.

Ann Barnhardt's site was outright terminated by Site5, and they even kept her money, too.

Blogger Kristophr August 31, 2017 6:19 PM  

DonReynolds:

Exactly. I want an internet that includes all voices. I do not want an internet that is censored because some dumbfuck like Frances yells "Nazi!"

Blogger DonReynolds August 31, 2017 6:39 PM  

@73 Kristophr wrote:DonReynolds:

Exactly. I want an internet that includes all voices. I do not want an internet that is censored because some dumbfuck like Frances yells "Nazi!"


I am all about being Fair and Reasonable. I happen to believe in the power of Reason.

The Leftist Liberals say they are all about Equality. So why not tell them we will have some of that Equality too. If they have the right to not be offended, we are at least as Equal as they are. We certainly do not want to be offended either.

So we can take turns....they get to veto ten web sites today and we get to veto ten of their web sites tomorrow. Keep it up, as long as they want to play that game. It won't take long for every Leftist, hispanic, communist, radical, anarchist, LGBTQRS, abortion, Democrat, Muslim web site is dumped from the internet.

WE have to do this for the children, ya know.

Blogger Sam August 31, 2017 6:46 PM  

@74
Reason doesn't work. It relies on the premise that people won't lie to get ahead; if they do then being able to detect lies and trustworthiness is more important then being able to see if arguments are logically coherent.

Also, you are assuming liberals have principles. Given their attitude towards rape, no one should believe that anymore.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 31, 2017 6:54 PM  

@64 Nate

"This was a major news story. its not my laziness... its my not caring enough about the opinion of someone so grossly uninformed to bother"

Yet you cared enough to make a (solely feelz-based) assertion. Just not enough to be able to back it up. That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Or are you truly unable to distinguish between primary and secondary sources? To realize that "some other dude, who was unable to cite a primary source for his claim, believes that this happened" is not the same thing as "this happened-- here's the evidence." In other words, repeating someone else's baseless assertion does not somehow magically make it an empirically-supported assertion; it's still a simple assertion, just one that someone else has mindlessly parroted.

How many heads of intelligence agencies assured us that Putin hacked the election, hmm?

Blogger DonReynolds August 31, 2017 6:57 PM  

@75 Sam

No, my big mistake is believing it is possible to negotiate and bargain with Leftist Liberals, when they have never held up their end of the deal.

They are notorious for moving the goal posts every time the ball is moved.

WE have compromised with them a thousand times trying to come to an agreement and end the conflict.

WE try to trade land for peace, and we end up with less land and even less peace than before.

WE trade amnesty for millions of illegal aliens in return for more effective enforcement, so we will never need amnesty again, then they claw back every enforcement mechanism.

WE move the Confederate flag from the state capitol building to a flag pole and they come back later and demand the flag pole.

WE simply cannot negotiate with Leftist Liberals because they have no integrity or honor. They lie and cheat and steal, and they see nothing wrong with it.

Anonymous Big Bill August 31, 2017 7:24 PM  

@8: I disagree that it was an "incredibly stupid mistake". To have ALL the major ($$$) internet players (registrars, Cloudflare, ISPs, Google, Facebook, etc. kick him to the curb and head stomp him gives even regular folks the chills, as this Slate article suggests.

Read the free speech decisions by the USSC. It wasn't Nice Church Ladies that had their speech suppressed, it was nasty lefty mad-bomber communist anarchist types that no decent human being would even talk to.

The USSC pro-free-speech decisions always protect scum.

Anonymous Simplytimothy August 31, 2017 7:28 PM  

The early ideal of the internet was that of a great commons where all kinds of diverse opinions could be shared, where people could come to understand each other and to be convinced of new, challenging ideas.

Well, it is. That is the problem. It's problematic where the Truth leads us...problematic for some, anyway.

Anonymous Korbin Ransley August 31, 2017 7:38 PM  

@67 kek 8^)

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 7:59 PM  

They don't want to risk wearing the scarlet N.

They also don't want to get DDOSed and lose customers and money over what, in the case of a domain registration, amounts to maybe $5/year. That's understandable. But in that case, just say that: "We would like to register this domain because we think everyone should have a right to be heard online and it's our policy to be hands-off about content, but we can't afford to have our business destroyed over one client."

Let people understand what's going on here: leftists are extorting private businesses into driving certain beliefs off the net. Don't dress it up with nonsense about how a particular site doesn't agree with your values, when you never gave a damn about values before.

Anonymous Rum August 31, 2017 8:16 PM  

What has been happening in Houston these last few days is massively important in regard to the thrusts and subjects of this blog. A really huge number of ordinary people have found a way to get along with total/genetic strangers better than they normally get along with their own family. Discuss...
Seriously.
From a guy who lives in Houston, by God, Texas.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain August 31, 2017 9:28 PM  

"Sanduja didn't fit the original intended Narrative of Alt-Tech being nothing but white supremacist Nazis"

Sanduja might be Indian. Sanduja might be Aryan. Aryans are Nazis. Checkmate, bigot.

Blogger tz August 31, 2017 9:43 PM  

Meanwhile Glenn Beck lays off a large number of employees.

Cheetos never prosper.

Blogger DonReynolds August 31, 2017 9:44 PM  

@82 Rum wrote:What has been happening in Houston these last few days is massively important in regard to the thrusts and subjects of this blog. A really huge number of ordinary people have found a way to get along with total/genetic strangers better than they normally get along with their own family. Discuss...

Seriously.

From a guy who lives in Houston, by God, Texas.


I am sure everybody remembers hurricane Rita, which hit Houston the year after Katrina.

My significant other has parents who live in Rockport, and her sister's family next door, and her daughter. Her brother-in-law is a career first responder in law enforcement.

We just visited Rockport and Corpus for a week, just before the 4th of July. Flopped in a cheap motel next to the Rockport Marina.

Many of the boats in the Marina were sunk. Total loss of family's rooftops, flooding in the houses, trees uprooted....but everyone survived.

Thanks Be To God.

Blogger SirGroggy August 31, 2017 10:10 PM  

However distasteful its views

A rock solid argumnet: "I don't like the taste of this"

Blogger Lazarus August 31, 2017 10:31 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:Many of the boats in the Marina were sunk. Total loss of family's rooftops, flooding in the houses, trees uprooted....but everyone survived.

Thanks Be To God.


Indeed. Now, it is time for modern technology to design dwellings in hurricane prone areas to have lower levels that withstand flooding and roofs that don't blow off.

A lot of houses in Belize are on stilts or have cement and tile lower levels so they easily withstand flooding from storm surges.

FFS.

Blogger Junior August 31, 2017 11:03 PM  

I don't like all this fleeing to a safe space everybody is doing. Talking about this shit is the only way we'll ever get over it, so stopping us talking about it is counter-productive.

Anonymous Random Name August 31, 2017 11:08 PM  

Speaking of censorship and deplatforming, Google just pulled the plug on Paul Kersey's "Stuff Black People Don't Like" blog, presumably due to excessive HATEFACTS and THOUGHTCRIME.

Perhaps he was speaking truth to power. Google's response is to speak power to truth.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning August 31, 2017 11:14 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:Let people understand what's going on here: leftists are extorting private businesses into driving certain beliefs off the net. Don't dress it up with nonsense about how a particular site doesn't agree with your values, when you never gave a damn about values before.

How much trouble would it be to pressure the ISPs, domain registrars, etc. & whatever, to revoke the internet privileges of an SPLC or an ADL? Idk how this stuff works. Would the threat of a lawsuit help? (Deceptive trade practice, libel, reckless endangerment, sedition, genocide, aiding and abetting, etc.)

According to /pol/, the SPLC has been wiring their dough to the Cayman Islands for the past 2+ years, btw. Elders of Wye not?

Anonymous hoots August 31, 2017 11:30 PM  

Bryan Lunduke, a pretty normal apolitical geek type, gets it. The real techies hate nothing more than being policed by their mental inferiors.

The Daily Stormer & the Right to be on The Internet - Angry Lunduke

It's time to break up Google - Lunduke Show

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 11:47 PM  

#winning

First contracts for The Wall being announced and Mexico is going to pay.

Blogger Off The Wall September 01, 2017 12:34 AM  

Latest news on Southern Poverty Law Center:

http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-poverty-law-center-transfers-millions-in-cash-to-offshore-entities/

Somebody's been naughty ...

Anonymous Irredeemable Deplorable September 01, 2017 12:43 AM  

The war on the vermin left continues, and we grow stronger by the day - de-monetize the human garbage:

https://hooktube.com/

"HookTube is a hook for YouTube that uses its media files directly without tracking you or activating any of its scripts, enabling you to download YouTube music and videos or just share YouTube videos without giving Google and its partners ad revenue or views."

And for those who may have missed it the other day:

"4 chan/pol has declared war on Google, #OperationGooGone - using an ad-blocker named "Ad-Nauseum"
https://adnauseam.io/

Clicks on every ad on every webpage/popup you visit, sending a false "click" (response blocked by the built in ad-blocker, nothing will show on your device) - destroys Googles business model by de-valuing the price of keywords/1,000 clicks that Google can charge, towards zero, and forces them to refund money to complaining Adwords customers. /pol has scripts that target the top selling keywords in a Google search (but never install a script from 4chan lol, write your own).
http://www.wordstream.com/blog/ws/2017/06/27/most-expensive-keywords

Works on Firefox, Chrome, Opera. Install it and do your part to put "Do Evil" Google out of business."

Blogger Ezekiel September 01, 2017 1:02 AM  

Junior wrote:I don't like all this fleeing to a safe space everybody is doing. Talking about this shit is the only way we'll ever get over it, so stopping us talking about it is counter-productive.
Worth noting that the casus beli for all this was the likes of Spencer (and Milo) doing the exact opposite of fleeing to a safe space. They're not trying to truly shut us down (yet), because the only way to do that at this point is to start killing us. What they're trying to do is send dissident rightists back to their echo chambers where they only get a chance to talk to other rightists.

Blogger Ezekiel September 01, 2017 1:09 AM  

...they'll probably succeed after a fashion; if Zuck the Duck wants to make sure that no normie ever again sees a Pepe Meme on his facebook feed then it can probably be done.

We should respond by doing more of what we did in Charlottesville, only bigger and better. Hit New York City next, or Chicago (Trump Rally II?) or Detroit. Do a country music concert instead of a rally. Don't run over anyone this time, or at least use a dumptruck if you do...

Anonymous Graduate of University of Katrina September 01, 2017 1:47 AM  

Lazarus wrote:DonReynolds wrote:Many of the boats in the Marina were sunk. Total loss of family's rooftops, flooding in the houses, trees uprooted....but everyone survived.

Thanks Be To God.


Indeed. Now, it is time for modern technology to design dwellings in hurricane prone areas to have lower levels that withstand flooding and roofs that don't blow off.

A lot of houses in Belize are on stilts or have cement and tile lower levels so they easily withstand flooding from storm surges.

FFS.


It's easily done, but there are a few problems with it. Concrete houses had a popularity boom on the Gulf Coast after Camille in '69, but they didn't catch on because they're expensive, hard to modify, and hard to make beautiful. Stilt houses have similar problems. Stilt houses, unless done very, very well (read "expensive"), are ugly.

The biggest problem is it doesn't matter what you do unless you can get it insured after you build it. Homeowners insurance companies aren't impressed with clever ideas, they have actuarial tables and will stick to them by God.

Of the two ideas, concrete or some kind of reinforced block masonry ground floor is the best one. You build this on a slab and you're done. You may not be able to insure anything on the ground floor, but it's cheap to build. Stilts are another matter. For coastal areas, you really need to sink caissions or something similar for the stilts to rest on. Depending on the water table, this can involve quite a lot of engineering. But concrete lower floors isn't the complete answer, because Katrina's 28-foot storm surge is the new metric.

That said, I agree that there is a technical solution to this problem without resorting to bamboo stilt houses without electricity. Problem is there's so many societal issues tied up with it that no technical solution is sufficient.

Blogger Zylax Computer September 01, 2017 1:50 AM  

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Anonymous Graduate of University of Katrina September 01, 2017 2:21 AM  

Forgot to add that for storm and flood resilience, a solid alternative is a nice think fiberglass hull. I know a guy with a 44' sailboat who weathered Katrina in Back Bay. Another friend weathered Georges in a 42' Grand Banks. You have to stick around to let out anchor rode, and you have to be somewhere where huge flotsam aren't likely to run into you, but it does work. Oh, the 42' Grand Banks was from 1968, so it had a wood hull. Fiberglass not required.

To contrast the above, I did know a guy who lost his Pearson Triton in Katrina. This is a tank of a sailboat, definitely in the all-time top 10 of production sailboats, but he opted to evacuate, and the boat was a loss. He made the correct decision because she was harbored where the monster landed her right hook. But I believe that she would have survived with her skipper aboard, if he had valued his life as less worthy than a 40+ year old plastic boat with mostly Tom Cruise-level headroom.

Blogger wreckage September 01, 2017 6:33 AM  

Big companies really should know better than to give politicians a loaded gun.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 September 01, 2017 9:20 AM  

Government is the entity that frightens and, therefore, conforms corporations.

Here's just a few weapons mexifornia inc. has available to push corporations further into the Leftist black hole.

a) deep pockets for endless lawfare.
b) denial of lucrative contracts.
c) a huge and highly politicized workforce.
d) a compliant lawyer funded local media.
e) government dependent academia.

It's critical for Alt-Tech to be established safely away from these leftwing black holes.

Blogger Benschachar September 05, 2017 8:38 PM  

These people can't stand Nazis but are A-Okay with selling out non-muslims and keeping the ISIS propaganda coming.
It serves them right for their utter hypocrisy.

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