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Sunday, August 27, 2017

Bake the damn cake

Instapundit observes that the Kennedy Ministry's case against the SPLC may have interesting implications for Amazon:
BAKE MY CAKE OR SUFFER THE PENALTIES: As Ed Driscoll reported yesterday, the D. James Kennedy Ministry is suing SPLC, GuideStar, and Amazon over “Hate” labeling. I’ve had a chance to go through the Complaint, and my view is the defamation claims may have enough merit to proceed, the Trademark claims are weak, but the most interesting thing — and what may be the most impacting aspect of this suit — is the claim under the Civil Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. 4 2000(a), which the Plaintiffs point out:

“Because the Amazon Defendants are operating a public accommodation(s), it is a violation of Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, specifically 42 U.S.C. § 2000(a), for the Amazon Defendants to deny the Ministry the privileges and advantages of the AmazonSmile program on the basis of the Ministry’s religion and the beliefs that are inherent to that religion.”

Now here’s where it gets interesting. If the Commerce Clause gives government the authority to trump a businessman’s personal beliefs, even if couched as a First Amendment expression, then the same logic that requires Christian fundamentalists to bake “gay” wedding cakes against their beliefs ought to mean that Amazon has no right to deprive the Ministry of a public accommodation because they “don’t like” that Church’s view on gay marriage.

I’m betting if Amazon doesn’t settle, that this issue is headed to the Eleventh Circuit, and maybe even SCOTUS. This is right in Justice Gorsuch‘s wheelhouse. Stay tuned.
It occurs to me that the Big Tech Left is handing the Right a golden opportunity for profitable lawfare. Whereas it might have been difficult before to argue that one has been materially harmed by defamation when falsely labeled a "Nazi" or a "White Supremacist", the demonetization and deplatforming of various "Nazis" and "White Supremacists" is putting a material price tag on those labels.

If you're a licensed attorney in the USA, the UK, or Australia, and you're interested in helping out those who are being defamed in this manner, shoot me an email. It would appear to be an increasingly target-rich environment.

Labels:

60 Comments:

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 27, 2017 2:05 PM  

I am interested but my experience is primarily as a corporate attorney, not a litigator.

Blogger VD August 27, 2017 2:06 PM  

I am interested but my experience is primarily as a corporate attorney, not a litigator.

Most cases won't get anywhere near a court. A litigator can always be brought in later, if necessary.

Blogger Timmy3 August 27, 2017 2:09 PM  

This must be tested against unpopular political opinions, not just religion, although the first amendment implies this. Deplatforming the political right is a major problem.

Blogger Salt August 27, 2017 2:15 PM  

Much deplatforming involves demonitization. This makes me think of Black Friday, after Thanksgiving. First one gets in, then two, then the doors get ripped off and it's Welcome to Wally World.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 27, 2017 2:18 PM  

Well, either way, this will end up being a benefit.

Either the Supreme Court will say that the left has to play by the same rules they made up for lunch counters, OR they rule that private businesses are not public utilities....and bakeries and photographers across the nation can rejoice.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 27, 2017 2:19 PM  

I've found that "Remember, you've got to bake the f***ing cake" makes more Leftist's skin crawl when I've used it. Switching it from the original Left on Right action, into a dreadful Sword of Damocles over them. They seem to react at the instinctive level to the massive errors they've made, even if they can't admit it. Part of the reason Alt-Left works so well.

Though the contrast of a forced action & cake does wonders. Plus, playing Offense is a lot more fun than playing Defense.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore August 27, 2017 2:25 PM  

The Leftwing collectivists wielded the Commerce Clause like a weapon and it now seems that it will be wielded against them.

Moral of the story: seeking to have tech giants like Google to be declared a public utility in the pursuit of your own interests also hands your opponents a weapon to be used against you.

Blogger Jan Minář August 27, 2017 2:31 PM  

There's always a third option with SCOTUS.

Blogger peppermint88 August 27, 2017 2:39 PM  

Individual small businesses shouldn't be seen the same way as monopolies and near monopolies like Amazon and Google, and the fact that none of the ICANN registrars will accept a registration for The Daily Stormer on the US's ccTLD's means the US government is violating the first amendment.

Anonymous Kreator August 27, 2017 2:44 PM  

OT, but:

The "The Amazing World of Gumball" is making fun of the term "SJW". We are winning the cultural war, dudes!

https://streamable.com/ehvub

Anonymous Crew August 27, 2017 2:45 PM  

Meanwhile, the Jew and the Jewess are going back, as they should!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4813496/Jewish-businesswoman-52-leaving-UK-anti-Semitism.html

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 27, 2017 2:50 PM  

It will be interesting to see the Left disqualify the Right from civil rights laws.

Legitimacy is the word going forward

Blogger LonestarWhacko August 27, 2017 3:05 PM  

Well, I reckon it depends on if the Left is concerned about the rule of law. Obviously not. The point is rapidly approaching where the law breaks down and open mob rule is how it is. You see, it doesn't matter if we win a case, leftist judges will overturn it. That's where we are right now.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs August 27, 2017 3:16 PM  

@10: that is just awesome. Maybe we can call it SJKD (Social Justice Kune Do).

Blogger ZhukovG August 27, 2017 3:26 PM  

@Kreator: Perish under the sword of my self righteousness! LOL!!

Blogger SteelPalm August 27, 2017 3:34 PM  

It's a good approach.

On a related note, I have always wondered what portion of lawyers have right-wing, or at least anti-SJW views. One of my lawyer friends, while politically agnostic a couple of years ago, is now very strongly against SJWs, antifa, and loves the politically incorrect/Pepe memes.

At the same time, I imagine the majority of lawyers are leftists, and often virulently so. And whereas the right-wing lawyers often have to keep their heads down (think Google's SJW-converged corporate culture), the leftists are well-connected through a myriad of organizations.

Blogger Quilp August 27, 2017 3:39 PM  

I do occasionally use Amazon smile when making a large enough purchase that it will throw some appreciable money to the pro life charity of my choice. I wonder how long I will be able to continue aiding that particular charity via Amazon. This fight over public accommodation going only one way has been brewing for quite some time. Things take too long to reach the SC. Long before that happens, that battle in the culture war is usually declared over, and the Court is merely acting as a rubber stamp for the cultural Marxists claiming "progress" can't be stopped.

Blogger Dedd Sirius August 27, 2017 3:47 PM  

I'm not skilled at blogging or making memes. But I am skilled at going to work every day and earning money that I can donate to various organizations.

I looked up the websites of the organizations suing the SPLC etc., and I intend to donate money so support their proactive lawfare.

Blogger Robert What? August 27, 2017 3:49 PM  

People argue that Amazon, Facebook, etc, are private companies who can do as they wish. That no longer holds water since it now affects people's legally conducted livelihoods. They have become more like public utilities and should be regulated as such. The power company has no right (yet) to cut off electricity to my business because they disagree with my politics.

Anonymous Deplorable me August 27, 2017 3:59 PM  

@13 LonestarWhacko

Well, I reckon it depends on if the Left is concerned about the rule of law. ... it doesn't matter if we win a case, leftist judges will overturn it. That's where we are right now.

The rule of law might not matter to the Left/Progs, but it matters to normies, who still believe that is applies in this country.

Blogger Ron August 27, 2017 4:03 PM  

the demonetization and deplatforming of various "Nazis" and "White Supremacists" is putting a material price tag on those labels.

Holy shit. You're right. You are absolutely right.

They have this coming.

They REALLY have this coming.

Blogger Ron August 27, 2017 4:07 PM  

@Robert What?

People argue that Amazon, Facebook, etc, are private companies who can do as they wish. That no longer holds water since it now affects people's legally conducted livelihoods.

I was guilty of thinking that myself. But I completely forgot that these bastards had already changed the rules.

Rule #4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."

they created these filthy rules, now let's make them choke on it.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 27, 2017 4:13 PM  

Either the Supreme Court will say that the left has to play by the same rules they made up for lunch counters, OR they rule that private businesses are not public utilities.

I suspect a Roberts court with an Obama/Clinton replacement for Scalia would have had no trouble threading that needle and finding for the Left in both cases. Fortunately we're not facing that prospect.

Blogger seeingsights August 27, 2017 4:17 PM  

'At the same time, I imagine the majority of lawyers are leftists, and often virulently so. And whereas the right-wing lawyers often have to keep their heads down (think Google's SJW-converged corporate culture), the leftists are well-connected through a myriad of organizations.'

As a paralegal who has interacted with, I estimate, over 100 lawyers: the majority I've dealt with are not left wing; however, the percentage of those who are left wing, or even mainstream liberal, is higher than the population at large. I think based on my sample it is reasonable to extrapolate to lawyers as a whole.

It should not be surprising that that is the case. A good amount of legal work is tied to the regulatory/welfare state. A legal career is one of the very few careers where a left/liberal can pursue his values and yet earn a good living. They see suing a business as wealth redistribution. Suing someone for discrimination is social justice. Und so weiter.

Blogger Ransom Smith August 27, 2017 4:17 PM  

Legitimately hoping this goes to SCOTUS. I feel confident enough in Gorsuch.

Dare I say, could a return to free association be in our future?

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club August 27, 2017 4:32 PM  

What if the Supremes refuse to hear it (assuming it gets that far)? The Eleventh is full to bursting with Obama and Clinton appointees.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 4:49 PM  

Coincidentally the Coincidence Detector finds "SPLC" to be highly coincidental.

"Aequus infra Lex." Leeet's just see how that works out...

"Make America Fair Again!" Ehh, it doesn't ring.

It's not so much a target rich environment as the entire environment being the target. This sounds like a good target for colonization!


Aww wait, cr**. A thought occurs, if people can't deny service from, say, a "public business" (provider) of any sort for any reason, tons of people will just "not be public providers".

This is very bad, because when the market moves away from the regulation, regulation grows to cover the market. I.E. there won't BE such a thing as "barter" or "simple man to man trade" for long. It'll be black market or world-wide-whore.

This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that ushers in the "One Mark to rule them all." That you must have in order to buy or sell.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 4:55 PM  

F*** me. The more I think about it the more this fits the pattern. F***.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 4:55 PM  

I guess the saving grace is that it will only apply in the USA. For now.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 27, 2017 4:57 PM  

I speak for BBGKB

"I am the fag who has the patent on "don't garrote fewer Islamics and (((globalists))) then a fag with a steel-wire rainbow feather boa" game show" when he says "I approve of this message by Vox Day."

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 5:12 PM  

I guess we just need to push for the courts overturning the earlier judgements, rather than following through into the "boot vs human face forever" double-down nightmare.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 5:15 PM  

Or maybe we're all for the thousand years ASAP? I could certainly use a break and a new body, even if this one is still in good shape.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club August 27, 2017 5:27 PM  

Related somewhat: things going predictably bad in Berkeley.

Anonymous johnc August 27, 2017 5:37 PM  

Related somewhat: things going predictably bad in Berkeley.

Color me shocked. It's almost like the people organizing these events are trying to make our side look weak.

Getting the snot beat out of you and running to the police for help does not do us any favors. It makes us look like a bunch of faggots.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat August 27, 2017 5:40 PM  

Sue them in New Zealand. Call someone a Nazi, racist or white supremacist here and you'd better get your cheque book out. It's not just the demonetisation & deplatforming. Defaming someone as a Nazi, etc., brings the threat of physical violence, public scorn and humiliation and loss of income & employment. Not only is it defamatory but the safe harbour rules make it very plaintiff friendly.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 27, 2017 5:58 PM  

@32
Or maybe we're all for the thousand years ASAP?

No man shall know the day and hour. That includes women.

Blogger Rodger James August 27, 2017 6:16 PM  

I have been posting this same argument everywhere I could for the past week. I was hoping someone would pick it up and run with it. The only difference being the terms of service agreement. If it comes down to this argument alone, then Christian bakeries only need a terms of service agreement to get away with not having to bake a cake. Didn't someone already point out several times that this would eventually come back to bite the ass of the Left? The argument was always that a Jewish bakery would be forced to bake a Nazi cake. Well now the Left may be forced to accept a hated political opinion.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 6:24 PM  

@36. Deplorable, "No man shall know the day and hour. That includes women."

I'm not sure exactly where or how females entered into this. I'm also not sure how implying "soon" extrapolates out to such precision as a day and an hour. Am I missing something?

Anonymous BBGKB August 27, 2017 6:27 PM  

Bake Me a Red Velvet Cake with Moohamad on it.

"I am the fag who has the patent on "don't garrote fewer Islamics and (((globalists))) then a fag with a steel-wire rainbow feather boa" game

Its "Don't garrote fewere felons than a faggot" & paracord strands not steel wire. Paracord can go thru a metal detector & can support 550 lbs with just 7 threads.


OT:OY VEY (((BETTER CALL SAUL))) teachers union lawyer brags about getting guilty teachers off who forced students to give BJs at his home at knifepoint, drugs & booze. Project Veritas


https://secure.anedot.com/project-veritas/cf0e89b233f7ba58bb54c

Blogger roughcoat August 27, 2017 6:37 PM  

Related somewhat: things going predictably bad in Berkeley.

I think the alt left terror squads are just attacking anyone who isn't wearing black at this point.

Blogger bobby August 27, 2017 7:16 PM  

"At the same time, I imagine the majority of lawyers are leftists, and often virulently so."

Nope. Keep in mind that for every lawyer suing for imagined slights, there's at least one working for the defense.

And everyone should keep one more thing in mind: It's not illegal to discriminate.

I can refuse to do business with someone because I hate their hair, their wife, or their politics.

What the law prohibits (if I fall under the purview of the law by offering "public accommodations" or the like) is discrimination based on "immutable" (unchangeable) characteristics.

That's how the left gets to apply its preferences in our legal system. If I hate you for your politics, I can refuse to serve you. If I hate you because you're black, or a woman, or gay (now that the courts have decided that being gay is an unchangeable part of you and not just a choice), I cannot refuse to serve you.

So, as long as Kennedy isn't claiming the protection of having been discriminated against because of some immutable characteristic, I just can't see his lawsuit going anywhere.

This is why Twitter and FB and Google can discriminate against alt-R speech. They claim that alt-R speech is expressing hatred against people because of those people's immutable characteristics. They don't ban left-wing speech expressing hatred of conservatives because that speech isn't based on some unchangeable characteristic.

It's not just a matter of "you cannot discriminate." You can. Just not for the wrong reasons.

Blogger bobby August 27, 2017 7:20 PM  

(P.S. - I should have made it clear that I was commenting only on the civil rights aspect of Kennedy's lawsuit. Nothing I said applies to defamation or trademark.)

Blogger Rez Zircon August 27, 2017 8:09 PM  

@41 They may not want to go there...

"They don't ban left-wing speech expressing hatred of conservatives because that speech isn't based on some unchangeable characteristic."

Well then! Turns out conservative and liberal brains are wired differently, and have naturally-different proportions of critical brain chemicals. And that's probably an "immutable characteristic" (at least for a given age group):

https://mic.com/articles/95234/psychologists-discover-the-striking-difference-between-conservative-and-liberal-brains

[I'd hazard that "liberal brains" are a manifestation of neotany, which is to say, not being completely mature per the species norm. Of course some will mature with age and become conservatives... but some won't.]



Anonymous Kel August 27, 2017 8:12 PM  

SteelPalm wrote:On a related note, I have always wondered what portion of lawyers have right-wing, or at least anti-SJW views. One of my lawyer friends, while politically agnostic a couple of years ago, is now very strongly against SJWs, antifa, and loves the politically incorrect/Pepe memes.

At the same time, I imagine the majority of lawyers are leftists, and often virulently so. And whereas the right-wing lawyers often have to keep their heads down (think Google's SJW-converged corporate culture), the leftists are well-connected through a myriad of organizations.


I'm a lawyer and you're right - you do have to keep your head down. It is infuriating. I left a very well known company due to SJWs taking the place over. And both at that company and at the Biglaw firm in NYC where I worked, it is painfully apparrent that (((the tribe))) favors their own over others for promotions/partnership and general discretionary bonuses.

Anonymous BBGKB August 27, 2017 8:23 PM  

it is painfully apparrent that (((the tribe))) favors their own over others for promotions/partnership and general discretionary bonuses.

How much harder is it to win a case if both opposition & judge are jews? Does it have to be glaringly obvious slam dunk in your favor & newsworthy?

Anonymous Kel August 27, 2017 8:52 PM  

BBGKB wrote:How much harder is it to win a case if both opposition & judge are jews? Does it have to be glaringly obvious slam dunk in your favor & newsworthy?

I'm not a litigator so I couldn't say, but in my opinion judges always have their thumb on the scale - particularly since legal realism has infected judges and law schools everywhere (and I've been practicing for a while). Hell, not for nothing, but it's a cuck thing to say that judges should be umpires. If I was a judge and a chance came to screw over a major SJW, I would leap at the chance.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 27, 2017 10:34 PM  

@9 peppermint88
"Individual small businesses shouldn't be seen the same way as monopolies and near monopolies like Amazon and Google, and the fact that none of the ICANN registrars will accept a registration for The Daily Stormer on the US's ccTLD's means the US government is violating the first amendment"

Ah, but the US government "gave away" control of the Internet, remember? The 1st Amendment no longer applies to ICANN. Of course, they're still physically located in CA, but they're no longer contracted with the Commerce Dept., so now the system of domain names is "internationally controlled."

Plausible deniabilty, anyone? That was quick. Less than a year. Makes one wonder whether that was the reason for "relinquishing control" of the Internet in the first place. It's in the hands of "global multi-stakeholders" now. Who exactly are these stakeholders? Now why would you want to know that? Just accept that they're not subject any to 1st Amendment limitations, goy.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 27, 2017 10:43 PM  

bobby wrote:What the law prohibits (if I fall under the purview of the law by offering "public accommodations" or the like) is discrimination based on "immutable" (unchangeable) characteristics.
There's an increasing amount of information suggesting that political orientation is inherent.  The idea that people don't have any inborn characteristics (except gay, trans, and other things favored by the left) is Blank Slatism.

Ah, @43 got that right away.  It's a sharp bunch here.  No wonder I like it.  (Though he mis-spelled "neoteny".)

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 27, 2017 10:43 PM  

@47. Francis, " That was quick. Less than a year. Makes one wonder whether that was the reason for "relinquishing control" of the Internet in the first place."

And of course they were pooh-pooing that and trying to paint us all as tinfoil hatters when we said it was an obvious censorship power-grab and yet another treasonous bird flip from the departing Oblammlim Brotherhood.

Blogger Mountain Man August 27, 2017 10:57 PM  

My business and personal reputation has recently suffered due to defamatory statements left on both Yelp and Google+. One attorney who read what was written - concluded it rose to the level of criminal defamation. Neither Google or Yelp will remove them. Unfortunately funds are limited - preventing me from suing. Its been a nightmare.

Anonymous ha August 27, 2017 11:39 PM  

"It is painfully apparrent that (((the tribe))) favors their own over others for promotions/partnership and general discretionary bonuses."

Goes to show how low IQ white leftards are, being led around by Zionista jews.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning August 28, 2017 12:44 AM  

bobby wrote:So, as long as Kennedy isn't claiming the protection of having been discriminated against because of some immutable characteristic, I just can't see his lawsuit going anywhere.

This is why Twitter and FB and Google can discriminate against alt-R speech. They claim that alt-R speech is expressing hatred against people because of those people's immutable characteristics.


Any claim can be rebutted.
There isn't anything in Vox Day's 16 Points of the Alt-Right that expresses "hatred against people". There is however an explicit acknowledgement of specific and immutable characteristics of the various peoples. "Whiteness" is one of those immutable characteristics.
Twitter, FB, Yahoo, Google, HuffPo, MSFT, Apple, etc. are implicitly, constructively, and often quite explicitly anti-White. Why has this angle not been used before?

Anonymous CoolHand August 28, 2017 6:04 AM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:@9 peppermint88

"Individual small businesses shouldn't be seen the same way as monopolies and near monopolies like Amazon and Google, and the fact that none of the ICANN registrars will accept a registration for The Daily Stormer on the US's ccTLD's means the US government is violating the first amendment"

Ah, but the US government "gave away" control of the Internet, remember? The 1st Amendment no longer applies to ICANN. Of course, they're still physically located in CA, but they're no longer contracted with the Commerce Dept., so now the system of domain names is "internationally controlled."

Plausible deniabilty, anyone? That was quick. Less than a year. Makes one wonder whether that was the reason for "relinquishing control" of the Internet in the first place. It's in the hands of "global multi-stakeholders" now. Who exactly are these stakeholders? Now why would you want to know that? Just accept that they're not subject any to 1st Amendment limitations, goy.


So we (the US Fed Gov't) take it back. Repossess it. Nationalize it, pay them 150% of the going rate for such things, and dare the UN or whoever to come take it from us.

I suspect that they will grouse and complain but quietly decline to invade CA to "liberate" ICANN.

These fuckers want "State Action"? Give 'em so much they choke on it.

Blogger justaguy August 28, 2017 8:55 AM  

If this case works and attaches civil rights laws of public accommodation to Amazon, then Facebook and many of the remaining SJW converged internet empires will have to follow. This will be the biggest threat to the independence and power of Facebook.

Anonymous TheTruthIsAlwaysUnacceptable August 28, 2017 1:59 PM  

Would like to see what 30 well trained modern "hoplites" with shields and 4 foot bonkers could do to an ANTIFA group of any number.

Anonymous Katt Brenner August 28, 2017 7:53 PM  

No offense, as your comment isn't worth anything. The civil rights act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion, which is NOT an "immutable" characteristic.
Nevertheless, the left will win in court, as the leftist judges don't care what the law actually says.
A violent bloodbath is necessary for the right to win.

Anonymous Luke August 28, 2017 9:20 PM  

43. Rez Zircon August 27, 2017 8:09 PM
"@41 They may not want to go there...

"They don't ban left-wing speech expressing hatred of conservatives because that speech isn't based on some unchangeable characteristic."

Well then! Turns out conservative and liberal brains are wired differently, and have naturally-different proportions of critical brain chemicals. And that's probably an "immutable characteristic" (at least for a given age group):

https://mic.com/articles/95234/psychologists-discover-the-striking-difference-between-conservative-and-liberal-brains

[I'd hazard that "liberal brains" are a manifestation of neotany, which is to say, not being completely mature per the species norm. Of course some will mature with age and become conservatives... but some won't.]"


This has been known for a while.

From http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/the-theory/rk-selection-theory/

"...a lack of adversity in the environment will fail to develop a drive or ability to confront adversity, through a failure to develop a brain structure called the amygdala."

Yes, it's true. Liberals tend by definition to have some brain damage.

Blogger Tom Terrific August 29, 2017 1:50 AM  

I have been saying this ever since I became a regular Facebook user and then a regular Twitterist. Call Social Media a public accommodation or a public utility, whatever. It is clear that by their size and reach they are not publishers of the content on their sight, but the tool individual citizens use to publish their opinions and ideas.

It is the difference between a newspaper publisher not wanting to print a letter to the editor and the electric company refusing to provide electricity to a religion they don't like or believe in. The first is a protected right. The second is a public accommodation or utility, governed by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 et seq.

Blogger Anthony August 29, 2017 10:14 AM  

Speaking of Berkeley, the Rent Board offices are kitty-corner from Civic Center Park, where all the action is happening. Would be amusing if they we to sprout a bunch of Trump posters the night before the next big antifa magnet.

Blogger jdwalker August 29, 2017 12:57 PM  

I have bar admission in Washington and California if I can help.

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