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Thursday, August 31, 2017

Change or fall behind

Snidely Whiplash fails to understand why he's not employed. Crew, who is not only of the Silicon Valley hiring class, but is the #2 Techstar and a member of the Infogalactic Star Council, is unable to set him straight.
Bob: The companies who try to move don't succeed. They can't convince their employees to move with them, and they can't find the people they need in other locations.

Crew: I think this is not true. What you have in Silicon Valley is enormous numbers of H1Bs, some of whom have been laid off in the latest layoff rounds but they vary greatly in quality and putting together a good team can be very difficult.

Crew: Certainly, where I am we need people but we cannot find them and we are in the heart of Silicon Valley, so we do without and things just take longer to do. And the real problem is finding people who know how to balance short-term business needs (implementing what the customer wants to get their business) with longer-term company needs (doing it in a way that is supportable over the long term and doesn't paint you into a corner.)

Crew: Despite that I still find time to work on Infogalactic and a couple of open source software projects. The reality is that people don't go for those who have been laid off in most cases. Personally, I would prefer to employ Americans ... but Silicon Valley has driven many of them out ...

Snidely: And with pathetic attitudes like that, you're helping to drive them out.

Jack: You still looking Snidely?

Snidely Whiplash: Sadly, yes, Jack. White, laid off, and over 50. Crew up there won't hire me, no matter my skills or experience, because he's an idiot.
I suggest that Snidely's difficulty has less to do with his skills, his experience, or Crew's purported idiocy than his personality. I'm not at all surprised to hear that he's unemployed. He complains that Crew wouldn't hire him, but I wouldn't be inclined to hire him either. It's one thing to not play particularly well with others, it's another thing altogether to pride yourself on your complete inability to do so; even his self-selected moniker is an indication of misplaced pride. It's not an accident that someone who elects to call himself "snide" reliably goes out of his way to say unnecessarily negative things about almost everything and everyone.

Snidely, that's your main challenge. Not anti-American discrimination in tech. The moment I hear that negative, superior tone in a man's voice, I immediately cross him off the list, whether he's a programmer, an artist, or a writer. Sure, he may be directing it at something we mutually despise now, but I know perfectly well he's going to be directing it at a co-worker, at the project, or at me before long. My experience has taught that such individuals never prove to be worth their downside, no matter how talented they are.

I'll give you an example of that negative communication style right in that same thread.

This is how a normal person expresses his opinion: "Hey, it would be great if you would release audio-only versions of the videos. I would prefer to listen to those."

That is a helpful, positive way to express an opinion. It's a good idea too. Why not be sure to release the videos in podcast form or make them otherwise available for audio download? I expect we will do just that.

Now, this is how Snidely communicated the same idea: "One thing I would encourage, as it's probably a make-or-break for me, is to have just the audio portion. Frankly, you're not that attractive, and both my money and my bandwidth are limited."

Same idea, different delivery, and it inspires an entirely different reaction: What the Hell? Fuck that guy! One has to read it twice to even register what the relevant opinion is, so distracting is the negativity.

There are three problems in just two sentences. First, the tone is heavily negative (make-or-break, frankly, not that attractive, limited). Second, he twice tries to make the entire subject about him when it isn't. Third, he insults my appearance, and even worse, he does it without any need to do so in order to make his case. It's just egregious. Now, I could not care less what some 50-something man happens to think about my appearance, but that sort of comment is not going to go over at all well with the average individual who is vain enough to be making videos.

So, Snidely, why would you EVER say anything like that? You didn't need to justify your preference for audio over video, because I was openly asking for everyone's opinions. And why are you whining and complaining about who Crew hires or doesn't hire? You not only haven't given him any reason to consider hiring you other than empty public posturing, you've given him excellent cause to not even accept you as a volunteer for any of the high-profile projects he manages. That's not intelligent. That's self-sabotage.

Now, I understand that this is a very challenging labor environment. It's stressful for everyone. Even those with seemingly secure jobs know that they could lose them at any time due to an untimely comment overheard by the wrong person, a corporate acquisition, or a corporate move. One friend of mine, long self-employed, was convinced by his wife to take a great job offer at one of the strongest, most successful Fortune 50 technology companies in the world, in the interest of stability. He was even assigned to a mission-critical project. I would have sworn he had some of the best job security on the planet.

Nine months later, the CEO announced that the corporation was shutting down all its activities in my friend's state. Since my friend was mission-critical, he was given the opportunity to uproot his family and move across the country to a place they knew no one. He wisely declined. So much for stability and job security.

The point is that in this environment, you have to continually up your game. And whether your weakness is on the skills side, the experience side, or the personality side, you have to shore it up. As I mentioned in last night's Darkstream, video was never my medium. It still isn't my preferred one, but I have upped my video game, and I am going to continue to increase it because that is what I have to do if I am going to be at all relevant to the 90 percent of the population that is post-literate.

The times always change. We can either change with them or we can fall behind.

Labels: , ,

205 Comments:

1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 31, 2017 6:21 AM  

Good advice. As somebody soon to be in the same boat as Snidely, I'll be taking it.

Blogger Felix Bellator August 31, 2017 6:29 AM  

If you are not growing, you're dead. Change in ways that are value added to others. I hire can-do utility players that can do any job I throw at them. They may not be the most efficient outside of their expertise, but I know they will get it done without a lot of carping.

Anonymous JamesV August 31, 2017 6:31 AM  

The popular thing these days is to be edgy funny. Most people can't do it well and it comes across as an insult, especially when written. It reminds me of a guy new to game trying to neg women, "You go out in public with that nose?"

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 6:40 AM  

OK, Vox. Allow me to disagree.

Snidely is almost certainly a professional. The tone and "personality" he exhibits here probably isn't present in his professional interactions. Different environment, different interactions.

And having seen both sides of what he's going through (I've survived half a dozen events like your friend above and not survived two, including the most recent one just over two years ago), I'd say Snidely's evaluation of the situation is probably more correct than yours.

The key line in Crew's comment that makes me think so is this one: "And the real problem is finding people who know how to balance short-term business needs (implementing what the customer wants to get their business) with longer-term company needs (doing it in a way that is supportable over the long term and doesn't paint you into a corner.)"

Any professional IT person does that every day. All it takes is management being truthful about what their longer term needs are. At 50+ with a long job history, Snidely has to have been doing exactly that for years now.

Simply put, if Crew can't find people who can do that, something else is limiting his pool of acceptable employees. There are far too many experienced IT people out there who can for that to be the limiting factor.

Does that mean Crew is an idiot (as Snidely unwisely states)? No, but it means he's not telling us the entire story. Depending on his position, he may not even know the entire story.

Blogger SemiSpook37 August 31, 2017 6:46 AM  

Flip side of this is a willingness and/or support of learning new skills. Tough to do when money is tight, but making a point of finding a legitimate way of getting the necessary training secured (whether it's through a free/inexpensive MMOC, direct impact funding for a particular project, etc.) goes a long way to help mitigate this.

As for efficiency, that improves a lot faster the more you do something. I've personally experienced this first-hand in several positions over my career, and it helps to fuel that desire to learn.

OpenID aew51183 August 31, 2017 6:51 AM  

Going to concur with @4 here, especially from a devops perspective.

Placation and diplomacy are reserved for clients and upper management.

There's no time in the trenches for "muh feelz", problems and task status must be as honestly reported as possible to know how to prioritize tasks.

Blogger The Kurgan August 31, 2017 6:52 AM  

Vox,
This is one of your best posts. Personally there isn't much in it that speaks to me directly, BUT, the gentle and detailed and simple way in which you express an obvious lacunae to at best a midwit is enlightening.
My skill set in dealing with average humans is definitely in need of upgrade.
It was SB that actually sparked my thought process in that regard when she asked if my "personality" was due to genetics or environment.

Blogger Felix Bellator August 31, 2017 7:00 AM  

@6 aew51183 - 'There's no time in the trenches for "muh feelz", problems and task status must be as honestly reported as possible to know how to prioritize tasks.'

Yes, honest reporting is required, but in many work areas treading on "muh feelz" of a co-worker will get you fired.

OpenID aew51183 August 31, 2017 7:03 AM  

@8
It's one thing to avoid friction in the workplace, but if it's converging or converged you're better off working fast food or picking fruit than staying there. Thankfully I have republicans all the way up my management chain :^)

Blogger Felix Bellator August 31, 2017 7:03 AM  

@5. SemiSpook37 "Flip side of this is a willingness and/or support of learning new skills."

This.

Blogger Felix Bellator August 31, 2017 7:05 AM  

@9 aew51183 - True, count your blessings. :)

Anonymous CrystalBlue August 31, 2017 7:06 AM  

I was "amused" by this comment of Snidely's in the parent post:
Please specify what exactly a "specialized software skill" is.
Software is like medicine. While a neurosurgeon can treat your strep throat, or a gynecologist can prescribe medicine for high blood pressure, there are nevertheless specialized areas of practice. Software has real-time embedded systems, mobile applications, backend server development, language expertise (supposedly people who learn Cobol can get a job), etc. Want to do iOS development? That's 2,000 pages of Apple documentation to master on Swift 3 and iOS programming and that barely makes you a beginner. And I've been doing all kinds of software for 45+ years.

And, having been in the market for several months, there are no such things as companies that want to staff up quickly.
Wanted an experienced iOS developer. Four days from first interview to signed contract. On the other hand, it took me months to find the right candidate (for my definition of "right". YMMV).

Blogger ZhukovG August 31, 2017 7:07 AM  

I am in a similar situation. Laid off, in my 50s etc. I have worked that last two years as an independent contractor. It's definitely a little scary when you're used to a steady paycheck, but overall I have seen my income increase considerably.

That said, it's one thing to tear a Soros Shill a new one. It's another entirely to insult your host in their own living room, so to speak. I can certainly empathize with the frustration and bitterness that comes with unemployment, I've been there. But whether you are a corporate employee or independent, you should always consider yourself the owner of your business and treat business encounters as sales opportunities.

I will also add that from an Alt-Right perspective my situation has been a godsend. As a corporate employee I was stuck in either a laboratory or cubicle. Now I get to travel all over the country, both with an ear to the ground and with chances to do a bit of proselytizing.

I have to be subtle of course. If you are sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ you don't shove a Bible in someones face. Likewise if you are talking the 16 Points, you have to be careful not to over do it. In both cases, as C.S. Lewis put it, we have to 'sneak past the dragons that guard peoples hearts'.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 31, 2017 7:10 AM  

This is one of those posts where running down the interests & interactions gets messy. Vox obviously works with Crew, so the "defend an ally" effect is going to exist. But, I also don't know the nature of any previous VD-Snidely or Snidely-Crew interactions.

Vox's point of the post should be well taken at the abstract level he's presenting it, however Snidely's reaction to Crew isn't necessarily off. Someone(s) in the chain of hiring at Crew's company is incompetent. Along with Age & Race discrimination being quite common in Tech these days, which is why Snidely's comment didn't strike me as out of place, even if it's from a position of frustration.

Again, though, I don't know how VD & Snidely have interacted over time, so I don't know if this is something Vox had noticed and just chose to comment on when presented with it. As I said in the original comment thread, HR & hiring, especially in Tech, is in a pretty horrible place because no one has found a way to actually ask properly for what they need from people. (There are rare exceptions, but they prove the current rule.)

Anonymous CrystalBlue August 31, 2017 7:16 AM  

James Dixon wrote:Simply put, if Crew can't find people who can do that, something else is limiting his pool of acceptable employees. There are far too many experienced IT people out there who can for that to be the limiting factor.
Just because someone is experienced doesn't mean that they're any good.

I once interviewed a candidate who claimed 3-5 years experience in the C programming language. He wasn't able to write one line of code. Another candidate claimed to have a PhD but we later found out that it was from a degree mill.

The number of people that I would hire is an order of magnitude less than the number of people I've worked with.

Blogger Whisker biscuit August 31, 2017 7:21 AM  

I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree. Cult of personalities never go far until the inevitable revolt.

Anonymous Ulick McGee August 31, 2017 7:22 AM  

The world would be a better place if we had more real talk like this. Tough on Snidely but that might teach him the humility necessary to land a good job. Excellent for young men to hear this message. Some technical guys come across as arseholish on email even though they are cool in person. Don't be an accidental arsehole.

Blogger VD August 31, 2017 7:25 AM  

Snidely is almost certainly a professional. The tone and "personality" he exhibits here probably isn't present in his professional interactions. Different environment, different interactions.

Snidely is not new here. This is neither the first nor the 100th time Snidely has exhibited this "negative superior" tone. It is not a consequence of his current situation, it is how he regularly communicates. Again, I point you in the direction of his self-chosen appellation. He sees himself, and he publicly postures, as a snide and smarter superior individual. No matter what professional face he puts on, that mentality is going to leak out.

And the smarter and more perceptive a potential employer is, the more likely it is that he will pick up on it.

Vox obviously works with Crew, so the "defend an ally" effect is going to exist. But, I also don't know the nature of any previous VD-Snidely or Snidely-Crew interactions.

It's not about defending an ally. Nor do I have anything against Snidely, other than my instinctive dislike for that form of communication. But he's far from the only individual who uses it here, so it's not a big deal one way or the other. Because I work with Crew, I know how resourceful and reliable he is, and I can state with authority that Snidely's portrayal of him is entirely false.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 31, 2017 7:27 AM  

@15 CrystalBlue

I do appreciate the addition to the catalog of "Fire your HR department": how does someone get that far along the process with a fake PhD? Though it also explains why people do it. Apparently no one noticed for a very long time.

Blogger VD August 31, 2017 7:29 AM  

I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree. Cult of personalities never go far until the inevitable revolt.

Do they now? Ah well, such is life. Perhaps you've mistaken me for someone who cares?

Anyhow, I'm not trying to humiliate Snidely. I'm trying to snap him out of a self-sabotaging tendency while taking advantage of a teachable moment for others prone to the same attitude/behavior.

Anonymous Viiidad August 31, 2017 7:32 AM  

Whisker biscuit wrote:I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree. Cult of personalities never go far until the inevitable revolt.

Everyone despises Vox! Everyone!

Blogger For 8 billion, sparky should have bought a hawter asian. August 31, 2017 7:33 AM  

In the last year, respect for Vox has increased markedly. That's what happens when you're right about all the important stuff. Also, he is a consistent white piller.

We are no longer used to masculine communication styles and are propagandised against accepting natural hierarchies.

Snidely needed to hear that. Only good people tell you what you need to hear when the message is harsh.

Blogger Tupla-J August 31, 2017 7:33 AM  

For the record: I'm immensely pleased in hearing about future podcast versions of your shows. I had been downloading and converting them to .mp3's ever since our friend Judeo Christ began posting them to Youtube.

I tried Periscope, but found it difficult due to playback stopping if I locked my phone et alia. Now it's like listening to a talk show, not unlike Stefan Molyneux, in that sense.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 31, 2017 7:34 AM  

Looking Glass wrote:@15 CrystalBlue

I do appreciate the addition to the catalog of "Fire your HR department": how does someone get that far along the process with a fake PhD? Though it also explains why people do it. Apparently no one noticed for a very long time.


It's more common than you think. We hired an employee who promptly had "medical issues" week 3 and quit showing up to work or communicating. HR finally went back and looked at their transcripts and noticed that they were listed in semesters for a school that was on a quarters at the time. They asked the person to send a copy of their diploma and it looked distinctly different from the diploma of another employee who graduated in the same year from the same school. That was enough to get rid of her with cause.

Blogger ZhukovG August 31, 2017 7:34 AM  

@21 Viiidad:

Or perhaps?:

Every Gamma despises Vox! Every Gamma!

Anonymous Looking Glass August 31, 2017 7:34 AM  

@18 VD

Fair enough. As I stated, I don't know the nature of your previous interactions.

Though these threads have reminded me why, for as bad as LinkdIn is, that it's been so popular with recruiters. We have a 100+ billion dollar industry that can't figure out how to ask for what it needs most of the time.

Anonymous CrystalBlue August 31, 2017 7:36 AM  

Whisker biscuit wrote:I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree.

Are you projecting? Or maybe you're a tender snowflake who can't take criticism? What you see as an attempt at humiliation, we software engineers see as a debugging session. But we don't have gdb, or front panel switches, for the brain. Best we can do, then. Unless you think doing nothing is better.

And afraid to disagree with Vox? Do you even read this blog?

Anonymous Looking Glass August 31, 2017 7:37 AM  

@24 basementhomebrewer

Well, at least they made a more consistent effort to fake it, in that one. But I still can't get the thought process for what they expected of the "job" they got hired into.

Blogger Michael West August 31, 2017 7:39 AM  

This is the origin of the handle: https://infogalactic.com/info/Snidely_Whiplash

Blogger Doom August 31, 2017 7:44 AM  

Actually, I just took a hint. Thanks for the kick to my psychic man parts. Sincerely.

I'll get to work on that. Never work again, but would like to socialize a bit. Free good advise, Snidely. I'm taking it, for what that is worth.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 31, 2017 7:47 AM  

@ James Dixon, thanks for the balance. I recall a discussion about how "naturals" don't notice what they do and thus are quick to heap criticism on those who land in a dark place & let their anger, dismay and worry spill out in the impersonal medium of the Internet.

Losing a job/occupation to a man is no less devastating than a major amputation. Lasting unemployment doesn’t bring out the best in us. Advice to rein it in is good, but judgment served alongside might be kicking those who are down.

Blogger Ben Cohen August 31, 2017 7:51 AM  

Thank you for the advice Vox. It's a great reminder to kill the ego.

Blogger RobertDWood August 31, 2017 7:51 AM  

Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser; teach a righteous man, and he will increase in learning.
Proverbs 9:7-9

Vox, excellent example of quality Christian admonishing and exhortation. Ill be using this as an example of how to lean on other men to step up.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 31, 2017 7:54 AM  

There are either a lot of 50+ unemployed men or a fair number of them gravitate to this blog.

Blogger Lucas August 31, 2017 7:55 AM  

Snidely's wording makes him repulsive. Sounds like those post-Wall women who cant accept that Alphas dont chase 40 year old women.

And what's with the "VD, you ize hug-lee!" nonsense?

Anyway, VD, suit up!

Blogger Desdichado August 31, 2017 7:59 AM  

Totally disagree. You're sexy as hell!

(I dunno; I'd tend to give him the benefit of the doubt and probably assume that it was supposed to be friendly banter that went awry.)

Anonymous The Original Arrogant PK Subban Bobble-Head-Off-the-Ice Courtesy of NHL Hockey Master and Supreme Commander Sir Sidney Crosby August 31, 2017 8:14 AM  

How To Win Friends And Influence People, By Dale Carnegie... timeless classic for improving one's personality game.

Blogger William Meisheid August 31, 2017 8:15 AM  

As someone who has had a difficult encounter with VD on this blog, there is one thing I can say with absolute certainty, when presented with a reasonable and accurate reply that contradicts him, VD is honest and reasonable in response, having said to me, "I can see where you thought that," after a particular difficult exchange. Like another poster, my respect for the man has grown over the years (I have followed him since his beginnings on WND) and continues its upward trend. As a Christian, which both VD and I am, it is expected that we grow in grace and become more like Christ as time passes and God does His work in our lives and the evidence is there.

One thing one gets from his videos is his essential reasonableness. There is no rough hardness to him, no bitter edges bristling to find expression. Though obviously highly intelligent he comes off with simple directness and while blunt does not appear to me to cruel or unnecessarily harsh or mean. We are not used to seeing men be real men much anymore, so when presented with someone who exhibits those characteristics, we can easily misinterpret. Also, since his videos are unscripted, you get to see the real man, the real thought process, the honest presentation of who he is. Think about that. He is not an actor playing a part.

As to this blog and the comment section, written communication, to be fully effective and not unreasonably pejorative, takes time and not inconsiderable effort. People who write for a living and therefore write a lot get better at quick communication, but we all say things that need editing, sometimes serious editing, that quick discourse, like posting comments on a blog where we don't often have the time to go through the editing process, require. Mistakes happen and these posts cannot be edited.

With that in mind, I actually wrote this in Word first, with at least one editing pass, just to make sure I didn’t fall into any obvious traps that quick postings often fall victim to and to make sure I said what I intended to say. If you have the time, you might want to consider doing likewise.

Blogger William Meisheid August 31, 2017 8:18 AM  

And, even with that editing I failed to notice the missing "be" in "and while blunt does not appear to me to "be" cruel or unnecessarily harsh or mean."

Such is life online.

Blogger Johnny August 31, 2017 8:20 AM  

While Snidely is far from the most nasty person here I have noticed his particular style. Perhaps being memorable is part of what is going on.

Remarkable sometimes how far a pleasant personality can get you. I have known people of no real utility in doing there job who none the less get promoted.

Anonymous phunctor August 31, 2017 8:28 AM  

I'm 69 and still working as a programmer. I've been contracting for 30 years. Since about 2001 I've followed the work around the country. My longest gig in that period was 9 years. My shortest, two months.

Yeah, it sucks. So?

Blogger Ingot9455 August 31, 2017 8:32 AM  

If you call yourself a villain, you might be setting yourself up for a self fulfilling prophecy.

Villainy has its uses but not every day.

Anonymous BBGKB August 31, 2017 8:33 AM  

They can't convince their employees to move with them, and they can't find the people they need in other locations

Brandon Eich managed to make BRAVE in Detroit of all places.

I suggest that Snidely's difficulty has less to do with his skills, his experience, or Crew's purported idiocy than his personality

Does he not know how to compartmentalize, I certainly wouldn't use the words "cared for tranny crack whores" on anything connected to my real name that HR could find. In fact I can say things I have learned from working in the inner city(which you will never hear me mention here).

Frankly, you're not that attractive, and both my money and my bandwidth are limited

Complaining about what you get for free. Also you get to see Vox dance sometimes

Just because someone is experienced doesn't mean that they're any good.

Snidely missed the boat of being able to just say your are gay and playing WOW all day as a programmer for the government.

Everyone despises Vox! Everyone! In the current year

But I still can't get the thought process for what they expected of the "job" they got hired into.

Before the election the conservative treehouse site posted about how hard it is to fire people with fake identity documents. They said you have to accept them((or better call Saul)) & a year later when the govt sends you a message you have to ask them nicely to clarity it when they just run. This means that illegals are getting affirmative action token jobs like my gay white friend Eric who was a programmer for the govt but played WOW all day..

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2017 8:38 AM  

@22

Snidely needed to hear that. Only good people tell you what you need to hear when the message is harsh.

The wounds of a friend...

Blogger dc.sunsets August 31, 2017 8:42 AM  

The most difficult of obstacles to overcome are those we ourselves create. Almost all of them qualify as vices (actions undertaken for a short-term benefit that ultimately cause us harm) and, like alcoholism, are highly resistant to change from the outside.

That said, I prefer consciously separating the action from the person. We don't tell our kids they're unlikeable, we tell them a behavior is counterproductive. I think this approach is not limited to childrearing.

Blogger Unknown August 31, 2017 8:49 AM  

@43 I remember when Sundance did that, and I had a hard time believing things could really be that screwed up.

After I learned more about what the Holder DoJ had been doing(Vox, you probably know all about what has been going on in Minneapolis schools WRT disparate impact, since you hail from there.), I no longer doubted it.

As for dealing with people, while looking for work you should consider potential employers as your customers. You don't treat your customers like crap and prosper afterwards.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2017 8:51 AM  

I suggest that Snidely's difficulty has less to do with his skills, his experience, or Crew's purported idiocy than his personality.

I am approaching my fifties and am currently in a good, stable job. But for family considerations and with the addition of more professional credentials I am currently looking to relocate and find a job that offers more challenges, responsibility, and yes, more money.

I have had few interviews recently, and what one discovers (if you have the requisite skill sets the job demands) 80% of the time it comes down to a question of personality and if you will be a good fit for the work culture. In other words, will they like you and what you have to offer as a person.

In fact, I remember my current employer telling me a few months later after I was hired, that it was one off-handed remark which I had made in the interview that convinced him I would be a good fit: "Nothing I enjoy more than a good crisis once in awhile." Who knew? For some reason it resonated and I got the job, beating out 13 other candidates, most of whom who had far more experience than I did for this particular position.

Be positive, convince the employer that you're there to serve the interests of the company and of everyone around you, and do not bad-mouth your previous employers no matter how you were treated. You never know what's going to get you hired.

Blogger Harris August 31, 2017 8:52 AM  

I'm involved with a couple of comment forums. On one of them (an NFL team site), I routinely block out comments from those who are consistently negative about the team. It's not that I don't see the flaws in my particular team. It's that I prefer to be optimistic, and look for the good things.

At work, I'm about to start a $20 million renovation of a building, and have to work with a guy that is relentlessly negative about the company we work for, and about other employees. I don't think I've ever been around him when he didn't have something bad to say about someone - most of it true. The truth of it doesn't matter. I don't want to be around him, and am considering asking for management to pull him off that job and reassign him simply so I don't have to deal with his relentless negativity.

As for Snidely Whiplash, I have to admit when I see his moniker, I skip the comment completely. Just from observation, he's not only negative, but he's abusive towards others in his commentary. He brooks no disagreement at all, and it is virtually impossible to hold a civil conversation with him online unless you simply slavishly agree with him. And that's just me observing how he treats others. It's hard to imagine he doesn't do the same thing in his personal life. As someone who's not above a little occasional anonymous internet flame throwing myself, it's hard to be sympathetic for someone who does nothing but that.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 31, 2017 8:56 AM  

Sage advice I got, and have to learn to remember is - a job is a job. Get *any kind of job until you get the one you're looking for.

Snidely is bitter and at an age where he doesn't want to sling shakes at Sonic. Understandable. I get and have been there. But sometimes we've got to make work too - freelancing, doing side jobs like cleaning windows, shoveling snow, etc. (I'm also from Michigan where *everybody's got a side hustle...a bit different than some regions, I've seen...)

What Crew is saying is pretty straightforward - we need technical experts who can work with people. It's hard finding that balance. US workers in the valley don't have it and are charging more than a startup can afford (it is Silicon Valley after all - not Nebraska). H1Bs don't have the skillsets they're looking for either. Pretty straightforward.

I like Snidely - smart guy, has seen eye to eye with me, and has been courteous to me over the years. And I get the bitterness when looking for jobs and a gaggle of illegals or a pillhead gets hired over you. It sucks.

My take - underbid and work part time for a company and freelance the computer stuff. Then make your own company (LLCs are still pretty cheap to register in the Midwest, and many have low or no state income tax).

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 8:59 AM  

Snidely, you're one of my favorite commenters here. I generally agree with your points, if not always the tone, and I've been an unemployed IT guy. But man, you had this coming. I've been trying to find a way that wouldn't be overstepping my bounds to suggest that you ease up and stop picking fights (especially with every damn troll) because I wish you well. I hope you'll take this in that spirit.

Snidely is almost certainly a professional. The tone and "personality" he exhibits here probably isn't present in his professional interactions.

Unfortunately, when you're looking for work, any situation may have professional potential. There are people here who might have or know of jobs that are right in Snidely's wheelhouse. I got my current job through someone here, and while I'm not in a position to do it yet, I hope to return the favor to the group. I'd say you're far more likely to get work in a tech field through connections on a blog like this than by sending applications through all the H-1B-infested headhunter web sites added together. (That's not why I'm here, but it's a bonus.)

There's an old piece of advice for job-hunters that says you should always look sharp when you're out in public. That doesn't mean you wear a three-piece suit to the grocery store; but you don't roll in there looking like you just crawled out from under a bridge, because you don't know whom you'll run into who might be able to offer you work or point you to some. The same logic would seem to apply online.

'Please specify what exactly a "specialized software skill" is.'

Snidely can correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect the reason he reacted strongly to this is that it's the kind of phrase that is frequently used to justify rejecting applicants, especially by employers who want to hire foreigners. You'll see job postings that require a list of specializations that would take a decade to acquire, and that don't necessarily even make sense together, attached to a $10-20/hour offer and a requirement to move across the country. It's frequently just part of a lie.

However, the fact that a phrase is used dishonestly sometimes doesn't mean it is every time. That's the problem with reacting so quickly to little things in comments. Again, I could be wrong, but I took Crew's comments to be generalized advice and perhaps a bit of devil's advocate, trying to show the employer's perspective (which is useful to the job-seeker whether or not you agree with it), not him personally complaining about the quality of applicants. Whether tech companies actually need "specialized software skills" or just think they do, you have to deal with that if you're looking for work.

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis August 31, 2017 9:00 AM  

Speaking bluntly -- there are a number of people here who are bitter and angry and complain. The world sucks, its the (((jews))), the blacks, the feminists, the Left, we're all doomed, civil war - etc. They whine and whine darkly. Now imagine having someone like that as a coworker.

Yes. The world has problems. Including those at places of employment -- that's why we get hired and hold a job. To SOLVE problems! If you can solve problems and maintain a "positive face" you will be employed.

And yes, if you are an older white male, it is much harder to get a job than it was 20 years ago. But usually it only takes 3 to 4 months to find a position. At least with contract work you know when to start looking. (It takes 3 to 4 months because by the time you are a senior guy, your skill set is both advanced and specialized, so you as a key are not a good fit for common locks. The flip side is, you get paid very well when you do match a position.)

Anonymous Rollory August 31, 2017 9:03 AM  

I quit college without getting a degree, I'm socially inept and an introvert, and even I have nailed every interview I've done in the past dozen years where I actually wanted the job.

I did go through a phase, early on, where I had to beat it into my head that what I wanted wasn't happening and what I was doing wasn't working and therefore I had to radically change my approach. I did. It wasn't exactly what Vox outlines but it correlates. Bitterness may feel good but it gets you nowhere and it's a luxury you can't afford.

There is no doubt in my mind that the only way to be unemployed in the present economy is by choice.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 31, 2017 9:03 AM  

What gets me, all this tech ballyhoo about connected world and shit and still everyone has to run off to a centralized location to sit in a cubicle WTF?

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 9:06 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 9:09 AM  

OK, let's try that again.

> Just because someone is experienced doesn't mean that they're any good.

Just because someone claims they're experienced doesn't mean they're not lying.
> There are either a lot of 50+ unemployed men

There are a lot of 50+ unemployed folks in the it field, yes. I've heard that it's actually getting fairly hard to land a job in IT if you're in your late 40's.

> As someone who has had a difficult encounter with VD on this blog, there is one thing I can say with absolute certainty, when presented with a reasonable and accurate reply that contradicts him, VD is honest and reasonable in response,

See his response to me for a perfect example.

That said....

> This is neither the first nor the 100th time Snidely has exhibited this "negative superior" tone. It is not a consequence of his current situation, it is how he regularly communicates.

How he communicates here, yes. That's not going to be how he communicates in a work environment. The two have little in common. If he communicated that way at work he wouldn't have been employed in the profession into his 50's.

> No matter what professional face he puts on, that mentality is going to leak out.

Assuming it's not a persona he affects for this environment, you would be correct. Everything I've seen to date indicates that it is though.

Now, history has shown that I'm not infallible, and when we disagree I've found that I have at best a 50/50 chance of being right, so readers would be advised to take my analysis with a grain of salt.

That said, you are absolutely correct that the persona he affects here is a negative when it comes to looking for work, and this blog is an excellent resource for contacts. Also, his calling Crew an idiot was uncalled for.

> Because I work with Crew, I know how resourceful and reliable he is, and I can state with authority that Snidely's portrayal of him is entirely false.

Vox, the fields you work in aren't the same ones "normal" people work in. If you work with Crew, then he's unlikely to be running a standard IT shop, and his requirements for employees are unlikely to be the same as the majority of the industry. That's probably the limiting factor I mentioned above.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 9:17 AM  

I'm trying to snap him out of a self-sabotaging tendency

For the record, Vox did this for/to me some years ago. I was lucky in that I'd written to him privately, so when he wrote about it on his blog, he kept it anonymous. It still stung, though. It was also probably the best advice I've ever gotten. He saw past the superficial things I was asking about and drilled down to my real problem, which no one else in my lifetime had been able to see or willing to point out.

I'm not suggesting that everyone try to make Vox his personal Dear Abby, but in my experience he's pretty perceptive about people. If he goes to this much trouble to give you some advice, it's probably worth listening to.

Blogger VD August 31, 2017 9:22 AM  

How he communicates here, yes. That's not going to be how he communicates in a work environment. The two have little in common. If he communicated that way at work he wouldn't have been employed in the profession into his 50's.

I am extremely dubious. As a general rule, we fool far fewer people than we believe we do.

Blogger Student in Blue August 31, 2017 9:24 AM  

@52. Mr.MantraMan
What gets me, all this tech ballyhoo about connected world and shit and still everyone has to run off to a centralized location to sit in a cubicle WTF?

I'd chalk it up to human behaviour. If you have a location set aside for a specific thing, you're far more likely to do that thing and only that thing.

Such as if you separate out where you read at night from where you sleep, you're far more likely to get to sleep when you get in bed. Or if you have a separate "office" area for work at home, then you're far more likely to actually accomplish work in that office area, and far less likely to goof off.

Central locations for work even for positions that can easily work from home can be beneficial for that reason.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 9:24 AM  

> Snidely can correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect the reason he reacted strongly to this is that it's the kind of phrase that is frequently used to justify rejecting applicants, especially by employers who want to hire foreigners.

Yes, it is. Through (as far as I can tell) no fault of his own, Crew exactly mimicked a current standardized rejection letter. Is it any wonder Snidely reacted negatively?

> If you can solve problems and maintain a "positive face" you will be employed.

I know too many people who aren't that fit that description to agree with that as a blanket statement.

> But usually it only takes 3 to 4 months to find a position.

I'd say more like 3-6 in the current environment. There may also be things affecting Snidely's situation we're don't know (inability to move, for instance).

> ...all this tech ballyhoo about connected world and shit and still everyone has to run off to a centralized location to sit in a cubicle...

Telecommuting is the future of work, and always will be. :)

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 9:29 AM  

> If he goes to this much trouble to give you some advice, it's probably worth listening to.

I've found Vox's advice is always worth listening to. Nothing I've said above is intended to disparage his advice in any way.

> I am extremely dubious. As a general rule, we fool far fewer people than we believe we do.

As I said, I've found that when we disagree, I have at best a 50/50 chance of being correct. But reasonable people can disagree. One of us is right and one wrong. If I'm wrong it won't be the first time.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 31, 2017 9:37 AM  

I'd say "do me next!" but I already know how that would go. So I just need to fix my shit.

Blogger SemiSpook37 August 31, 2017 9:38 AM  

A lot of this boils down to perception. James and aew bring up a valid point, but oddly enough, so does VD.

I'll bring up an example (somewhat unrelated, but in a similar vein):

Earlier this week, I reposted something on FB (I'm only there to maintain contact with my family and the smaller group of friends that aren't immediately available; strongly considering a switch to Minds...eventually) related to good ol' engineering humor.

The gag itself was two square waves that were direct inverses of each other, with the y-axis representing "Quality of Life" and the x-axis representing time. The comparison was between Liberal Arts majors and Engineering majors, where said quality of life changes at graduation (drops for LAs, rises for engineers). I had quipped that while it wasn't that blatant, it was a fairly accurate representation (for me, as an engineer), based on my personal experience.

I had three responses to this. The first was from a friend, who I knew was an English major in college, and who I also know works in a "stable" gov't job. who stated the view was inaccurate for him, which is true, as he is working as a writer, but not as his prime gig.

The second was from an acquaintance, who I met via a number of mutual friends, who has had a 20 year career in semiconductors while holding a PoliSci degree. He posted a NYT article on how LA folks CAN succeed in tech, but it is difficult. I agreed with him on that point, and added my point about folks being willing to learn, along with the fact that some of the best leadership I've had being LA folks. Even mentioned that management's focus on adhering to the base requirements of a position (i.e. 5 yrs experience with a skill that's only been in existence for 2) was putting folks at a disadvantage, regardless of where your skill set is.

The third was from another friend, who allegedly started college as an engineering major, but then switched over to music education. Over the course of his 19 year career, he's been at three different public school programs (on average, 3-4 years, and when renewals for his contract didn't come up, it was NOT due to these districts cutting arts), he's started a semi-pro performing group, and currently teaches at a cyber charter school. I see regular complaints from him regarding the state of the school's funding, the revolving door of students leaving, and that he has to resort to doing online studio training, blogging, and other sorts of self promotion to make ends meet.

He accused me of stereotyping. My response, while terse, was blunt: only looking at my situation, had experienced some unexpected good fortune in recent months, and that's why I made my comments the way I did. Told him to read into that however he wanted to.

I should point out that I didn't get a response to that.

The point here is that people are going to perceive a situation however they want to, or more accurately, how they are accustomed to. It's not a criticism in terms of who's right and who's wrong, because it's primarily based on how the person viewing the situation has seen things happen in the past. One person's negativity may be another person's candor. It's all in how you take it in, process it, and proceed with it.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2017 9:45 AM  

"I had three responses to this."

Writer snowflakes, engineer spergs, artist whines.

Funny, that.

Anonymous It's good advice, take it August 31, 2017 9:55 AM  

I understand Snidely's attitude a bit. Being a jackhole on the Internet is a hoot, and can be cathartic on occasion. You have to be careful, though, because Itinerant Asshole isn't a real job no matter how much fun it is.

But VD's advice is spot on. Even if you take a lesser job to keep working, always have two or three irons in the fire, personal projects that mean something to you. If they teach you new skills, all the better. In your 30+ years of working, there was at least a dozen things you ran into that could have been better. Pick one and do something about it.

If nothing else, turn your snark towards writing fanfic and publish it on Amazon. That's at least something.

Anonymous Avalanche August 31, 2017 9:58 AM  

@3 The popular thing these days is to be edgy funny.

"Popular"? Or pushed by our enemies to make our social interactions more difficult, to further atomize and alienate EVERYone who has ever participated in social interactions?

Two examples I see all the time now -- and resist... One is: in our almost all White subdivision, driving opposite any car / apparent neighbor, I wave. NOT because I know them, but because it's what WHITE folks do! it's "neighborly." It creates a sense of neighborhood. People my age tend to also do it -- or respond and do it. Young folks? Were NOT raised to do it.

The other, weirdly enough, is rescuing box turtles trying to cross a roadway! I slammed on the brakes, threw on my flashers, raced out and waved to stop cars in both directions, and helped the little guy make it to where he was headed... Again, (White) people MY age recognized what I was doing and smiled, laughed, waved, gave me a thumbs up.

The black driver opposite just looked annoyed and confused. Attribution of motive through my own dislike? Maybe so... But I have NEVER seen or heard of a black person doing this; I HAVE heard of black drivers speeding up and crushing a turtle... "cause it's fun." (Also, burning cats and harming dogs... "cause it's fun." Stuff only White psychopaths do "for fun.")


Resist the 'urge' to be edgy -- it's not our way. It's part of the coarsening and destruction of our social more's: part of the destruction of our people!

Anonymous Stickwick August 31, 2017 10:02 AM  

Whisker biscuit: I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree. Cult of personalities never go far until the inevitable revolt.

My very first encounter with Vox on this blog was a public critique followed by the commenters piling on. In the first year or two of commenting here, I was the recipient of more than one painful smackdown by Vox in the comments. I'm still here nine years later.

I saw those critiques and smackdowns as opportunities to up my game. I ignored the momentary humiliation and stuck around, because the bang-for-the-buck here is far beyond what you get anywhere else. The result: I'm a much sharper debater and clearer thinker than I was nine years ago.

It's unfortunate that so many people on the Right apparently despise Vox*, because: a) his intention is always to improve the situation; and b) despite his reputation as a cruelty artist, he is extraordinarily forgiving. Despite my early missteps here, Vox went on to offer me numerous opportunities to be involved with his projects, some of which I think will pay off nicely in the long term.

When someone who is unusually successful and has proven to be an astute judge of character gives you advice, even if it's delivered in a way that stings, attitude adjustment pays off.

[* To the extent this is accurate, I suspect we're talking about hordes of Gammas who resent Vox's masculine mode of helpfulness.]

Blogger Chiva August 31, 2017 10:02 AM  

"How To Win Friends And Influence People, By Dale Carnegie... timeless classic for improving one's personality game."
Very much agree. This book helped me learn to effectively network with people.

Anonymous Avalanche August 31, 2017 10:06 AM  

@21 Everyone despises Vox! Everyone!

OOPS! I'm doin' it wrong!

Blogger Jimmy The Freak August 31, 2017 10:07 AM  

@50 - It's funny, I was just telling my nephew the other day (he's 17) that you should always do you best and take the the time to do a job right. You never know when the one-off job you are doing today can lead to better opportunities in the future.

Unfortunately, we had to have this conversation after I gave him a job cleaning a house that I'm flipping. He half-assed it and ensured that I'm not going to use him again. Of course, this was a good illustration of how he is only hurting himself.

Blogger Koanic August 31, 2017 10:08 AM  

I have faith that old Snidely will find a way.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 31, 2017 10:13 AM  

"I ignored the momentary humiliation and stuck around, because the bang-for-the-buck here is far beyond what you get anywhere else. The result: I'm a much sharper debater and clearer thinker than I was nine years ago."

Ding ding ding!

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 10:13 AM  

> I have faith that old Snidely will find a way.

So do I. Whether it's in IT or not.

However for the faithful amongst us, a prayer on his behalf may be called for.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2017 10:16 AM  

Heartiste, of course, isn't "right". He's an elitist NatSoc at heart.

Anonymous BBGKB August 31, 2017 10:16 AM  

FAKE NEWS makes its own fake news rescues
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/08/31/something-very-odd-in-that-cnn-crew-rescuing-man-in-truck-video/

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 10:16 AM  

> He half-assed it and ensured that I'm not going to use him again.

Did he know how to do it right? I only ask because I've been surprised how often people don't know how to do jobs you'd think they would.

Blogger Desdichado August 31, 2017 10:18 AM  

Stickwick wrote:I saw those critiques and smackdowns as opportunities to up my game. I ignored the momentary humiliation and stuck around, because the bang-for-the-buck here is far beyond what you get anywhere else. The result: I'm a much sharper debater and clearer thinker than I was nine years ago.
In other words; if you can't take a hit, stay out of the ring. It's happened to me here before too—and what can I say? When it did, I spent a little bit of time doing some research and found out that I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about, so being told that was completely accurate. The Red Pill—like every other type of learning—is a process; line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. So along the way, we're all wrong a fair bit of the time as we deprogram and learn more and more of what is actually true.

The "pain" of being corrected is better than the sure long-term pain of being delusional and wrong. I suspect most people are too proud to take correction well. Especially when you're being corrected in a long-standing habit of behavior.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 31, 2017 10:20 AM  

Or maybe Snidely Whiplash grew up watching the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show and took the name of a mustache twirling villain? No, it has to be because he sees himself as "snide".

Blogger rycamor August 31, 2017 10:24 AM  

I simply don't understand the fear of layoffs for a competent IT person. Several times I have been laid off or lost jobs due to business closings or other problems. Each time I have simply looked at that as an opportunity to pursue freelance work. If you are a developer of any caliber, there is almost zero reason you can't find freelance work. It is everywhere.

For this reason, my resume never looks like job...GAP...job...GAP, but job...freelance...job...freelance. Prospective hiring managers barely even shrug when they see the layoffs because they see lots of other stuff happening in between.

Or, as Crew mentioned, volunteer on open source projects. If you really can't find a job in your field, get any lesser job and work on open source projects in your spare time, and once again your resume can come out looking pretty good.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 31, 2017 10:25 AM  

Good managers want to manage projects, not people. If they think you're going to create drama at the company, why would they hire you? It's not hard to be professional.

Blogger dienw August 31, 2017 10:25 AM  

The ability to perceive the tone and put it in word form of another person's words is a marker for higher intelligence; it is like painting: as a painter, I can do things that influence you but you will not perceive them; in addition, the artist unknowingly puts his spiritual state in his work and the response of the viewer may include an attraction to that underlying spiritual state: this is why I finally decided not to keep a friend's art work when I moved even though I was the only one in his group of artist friends who recognized his technical breakthroughs and was willing to explore further the meaning of what he did.

Anonymous Anger Is A Virtue August 31, 2017 10:25 AM  

Good career advice but also recognize that attitude policing can be a form of manipulation and social control. "STFU and keep that smile on your face, goy!" No. That's what cuckservatives have done to us for the past 50 years, while tearing away at the foundation of our beautiful societies. AltRight is a revolutionary movement fueled by LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCE. Yes there really are (((enemies))) who are working every day to destroy you, your people and your culture. It's OK to be angry and to fight back. Pray that our righteous rage grows and spreads like wildfire.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 31, 2017 10:26 AM  

I simply don't understand the fear of layoffs for a competent IT person.

Scarcity vs abundance mindset.

Anonymous Scott August 31, 2017 10:29 AM  

Whisker biscuit: I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox.

That's just silly. Have you talked to anyone at Heartiste much less everyone?

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 10:29 AM  

> I simply don't understand the fear of layoffs for a competent IT person.

If you work in a major metropolitan area and are under 40, IT jobs are easy to find. If you work outside of them and are over 50, not so much so. Circumstances vary.

Blogger Mountain Man August 31, 2017 10:32 AM  

Nothing will destroy group morale faster than a negative spirit. It's nothing short of cirrhosis of the spirit. In business dealings I make it a point of avoiding toxic negative people like the plague. This post was pertinent. Sorry SW but your talent and smarts not withstanding, it's been painfully obvious for quite some time, that your negative attitude holds you back.

Blogger rycamor August 31, 2017 10:33 AM  

@James Dixon, I have lived outside of a major metropolitan area for the past 9 years, and have gone through two jobs, three stints of freelance work, one long-term subcontracting arrangement, and am now being hired full-time (remotely) by said contracting firm. You just keep adding skillsets, focusing on things that can be done remotely. I do some travel, but most of it is in my home office, and meetings are done through webconferencing. Welcome to the 21st century.

Blogger SemiSpook37 August 31, 2017 10:33 AM  

S1AL wrote:Writer snowflakes, engineer spergs, artist whines.

Funny, that.


It was almost as if it were on cue.

I did have a fourth response, from a friend who got a business degree. He just asked where his curve was and what that would look like. I didn't respond to that, because he initially used a laugh reaction to my original repost. I know he was being a smart ass.

That's okay. He's speaking my language. :-)

Blogger tuberman August 31, 2017 10:36 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tuberman August 31, 2017 10:38 AM  

If SW is in his 50's and has any kind of a network with people doing programming/computer work on the side, they will often get overwhelmed with too much work coming in too fast (feast/famine thing), and he could restart by helping to take off some of the excessive work load.

Blogger Jimmy The Freak August 31, 2017 10:39 AM  

@74 - It wasn't that he didn't know how. It was that he thought the job was beneath him. Because he went into it with that attitude, he didn't take the time to do it properly (such as sweeping dust into a hiding place rather than use the dust pan).

Now, I paid him the $150 I had promised him for the day. I also took the time to explain to him that I have other houses that would need to cleaned before sale in the future. I also have friends who do the same thing that might be willing to pay him to come in and clean. However; due to the job that he did for me, I would not be able to use him again and I would not be willing to recommend him to any of my friends in the future.

Just to be clear, I will probably give him another chance with a different type of work in the future (he is my nephew after all), but I did not tell him that. Maybe he will learn the lesson, maybe he won't.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker August 31, 2017 10:44 AM  

Sometimes kicking a man when he's down is the best way to get him back up again.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 31, 2017 10:49 AM  

Good career advice but also recognize that attitude policing can be a form of manipulation and social control. "STFU and keep that smile on your face, goy!" No. That's what cuckservatives have done to us for the past 50 years, while tearing away at the foundation of our beautiful societies. AltRight is a revolutionary movement fueled by LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCE. Yes there really are (((enemies))) who are working every day to destroy you, your people and your culture. It's OK to be angry and to fight back. Pray that our righteous rage grows and spreads like wildfire.

No one wants to work with a rage monster

Blogger Whisker biscuit August 31, 2017 10:53 AM  

Read the comments when Vox's name comes up. You got hands and a CPU, go dig. He's universally loathed except by VFM. Go figure.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 11:00 AM  

> It wasn't that he didn't know how. It was that he thought the job was beneath him.

Thanks. That's all I wanted to know.

> You just keep adding skillsets, focusing on things that can be done remotely. I do some travel, but most of it is in my home office, and meetings are done through webconferencing. Welcome to the 21st century.

Been there, still doing that (not the remote work thing, I'm tech support, not programming).

We know almost nothing about Snidely's situation. At this point we know he worked in IT, is unemployed, and is over 50. That's it. We're not in a position to judge whether he's doing the right things in his job search or not.

> Sometimes kicking a man when he's down is the best way to get him back up again.

And sometimes it's not. Negativity can be a two way street. Snidely may need encouragement at this point far more than he needs criticism. Or maybe not. I'm not in a position to determine either way, nor are most of the commenters here.

Blogger Giraffe August 31, 2017 11:06 AM  

@92

We don't care.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2017 11:11 AM  

You don't care so much that you bring up your monomania on subjects that aren't actually related?

I do nazi how you think you're feeling anyone.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2017 11:12 AM  

Feeling, fooling, close enough

Anonymous Scott August 31, 2017 11:13 AM  

@92 - Read the comments when Vox's name comes up. You got hands and a CPU, go dig. He's universally loathed except by VFM. Go figure.

You can't help but double down. We've already established you haven't spoken to a single person.

Now, how many people view the websites and how many people post negative comments about Vox? 1%? 5% maybe?

Learn your lesson and stop using absolutes.

Anonymous I give it a 3.7, needs more trollbell August 31, 2017 11:15 AM  

Whisker biscuit wrote:Read the comments when Vox's name comes up. You got hands and a CPU, go dig. He's universally loathed except by VFM. Go figure.

You're gonna have to give examples. I did look, and came up with nothing but one drive-by.

"Universally" probably isn't the word you should use.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 11:29 AM  

Tough love and sound advice, certainly not just for Snidely.

Anonymous Stryker4570 August 31, 2017 11:29 AM  

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
Vox's rebuke is actually very kind and helpful if Snidely pays attention to it. It's the rare person who will call you on your BS with the intent of helping you improve your life.

Blogger Clay, Bill Clay August 31, 2017 11:32 AM  

Yeah. I thought it was oddly caustic but chalked it up to jocular ribbing or something.

Blogger Robert Coble August 31, 2017 11:36 AM  

@92:

I very much admire Vox Day (especially after reading The Irrational Atheist and SJWs Always Lie) AND I am NOT now and have never been a VFM. Q.E.D.: you are WRONG.

I strongly suspect (based on comments here and elsewhere, without having to "dig" for it) that I am NOT an "exception to your 'rule'." You go figure out the logic flaw in your usage of "universally loathed"; you've got hands and a CPU.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2017 11:41 AM  

Universally loathed? He's not the freakin' Dark Lord for nothin'. Reputation is everything.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 11:41 AM  

@101 I interpreted it the same way. Benefits of a classical education, I guess.

Blogger Elwin Ransom August 31, 2017 11:46 AM  

Snidely pointed out that Crew is a hypocrite, so what, Crew “would like to hire Americans” but excuses.

“You’re not that attractive” was a stab at humor, Vox’s reaction is uncharitable and a bit silly coming from a man, I would expect a teenage girl to react that way, not 50 year old man.

Snidely’s style is disagreeable, but I’m not sure how far one can read into internet combox comments.

Anonymous Sarafina's Ghost August 31, 2017 11:50 AM  

Snidely is a complete dick and always has been. It matters not whether his opinion and ideas are informed. He's a dick. He's mean. He's obnoxious. This kind of personality impairment is guaranteed to come through in a job interview.

Blogger DeploraBard August 31, 2017 11:50 AM  

I wish Snidely the best. I enjoy his comments and hope he takes to heart Vox's advice. Sometimes I am frustrated I know nothing about computers, but then it sure seems like a lot of readers have a damn hard time making a living.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 11:53 AM  

Universally loathed?

True or not, that reminds me of something funny: there was a thread on 4chan a few weeks asking /pol/'s opinion of Vox. (They do those a lot, where they post a person's picture and ask for opinions. In this case the picture was Vox's mask image.) I thought, "Oh, here we go," because they basically hate everyone and consider most prominent people on the right to be (((controlled opposition))). They're also very wary of the Alt-Right because they associate it with Spencer, and because they distrust all attempts to organize or label. So I was surprised when the consensus on Vox was pretty much, "Eh, he seems okay." High praise, from them.

Blogger DeploraBard August 31, 2017 11:56 AM  

"Universally loathed"
What are you known for Universally? Anything? Also, you are a liar. Plenty respect Vox at all the major players.

Blogger DeploraBard August 31, 2017 11:57 AM  

That was not to you Cail

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 11:59 AM  

Vox,
Thanks for the critique.
You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?

Blogger Panzerdude August 31, 2017 12:00 PM  

Snide's comment is too common among some of my employees.

For example: a mistake is made on a paycheck. Negative attitude employee, "I think the company is ripping me off by missing a commission. You need to fix this. I've talked to the other agents and they agree."

Sounds like Snide.

I'll point out an example from someone else, such as, "I think I've found a mistake on my check; it looks like a commission was missed. Will you please check it?"

I'll ask, "See the difference?" When you point out their negativity, I'm amazed at how few can see it and then defend it.

Then they wonder why they've been passed over for advancement or part of a "reduction in force". I know, because we're anti-American.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2017 12:00 PM  

@111. Snidely Whiplash

RESPECT, Snidely, much respect.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 12:05 PM  

James Dixon wrote:And having seen both sides of what he's going through (I've survived half a dozen events like your friend above and not survived two, including the most recent one just over two years ago), I'd say Snidely's evaluation of the situation is probably more correct than yours.
You realize that that doesn't matter right? Whether my assessment is correct will not get me a paycheck.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 12:06 PM  

> You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?

Well, it's an excuse, but it's beneath one of the Ilk. :)

Best of luck Snidely. You have my prayers.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 12:14 PM  

The Kurgan wrote:BUT, the gentle and detailed and simple way in which you express an obvious lacunae to at best a midwit is enlightening.
Definitely NOT a midwit.

Anonymous fop August 31, 2017 12:15 PM  

On the practical side, Snidely, there are dozens of apps that will strip the audio off a video and give you an mp3.

This speaks to personality and hireability as well. Managers prefer to hire people who simply find solutions rather than complain about problems.

In this case, the solution was one google search away.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 12:16 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:Again, though, I don't know how VD & Snidely have interacted over time, so I don't know if this is something Vox had noticed and just chose to comment
Vox has never been rude to me, and I hope I have not been rude to him.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 12:17 PM  

Whisker biscuit wrote:I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree. Cult of personalities never go far until the inevitable revolt.
Not everyone is that fragile.

Anonymous Avalanche August 31, 2017 12:19 PM  

@80 AltRight is a revolutionary movement fueled by LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCE.

Legitimate grievance is entirely appropriate and true. Letting that legit anger come out at anyone not at fault (OR at someone partly / mainly at fault, from whom you need something) is not going to serve you! (Flies, honey v. vinegar? Y'all know that old old saying?)

Alt Right HAS legit positions; whacking people at random -- sending your pain and anger out at people who may even share it doesn't best serve.

attitude policing can be a form of manipulation and social control.

What POSSIBLE "manipulation and social control" could Vox Day want or need over Snidely?

The whole 'courtesy' thing is (artificial) lubrication for (necessary) social interactions. It's not native to humans, it's not EASY to do when angry or hurt (or cheated or shut out), it's not even standard across nations and peoples. (And it's entirely artificial because it has to be TAUGHT and chosen. And it's necessary to play in that artificial realm in order to achieve things in the social milieu you find yourself in. Being the 'ugly AMerican' in most not-America countries will NOT help you succeed at whatever you're trying to do!

NOT all manipulation is illegitimate or inappropriate manipulation; ALL social interactions are manipulations of one sort or another: you want the store owner to take your money is return for an item you want more than you want that money. You want your 6-yr-old to eat her veg! You want your idiot Repub neighbor to finally wake up and quit watching CNN. You want your golf buddy to reschedule for you to make a round. ALL Of those interactions are attempts at manipulation; and the reverse is true for those folks 'manipulating' you.

However, the CORRECT want to manipulate people into doing what we would like them to do is with kindness and a desire for a compromise if one is possible, so both of you succeed at whatever.

Think of a man you respect (hell, think of Vox Day). Does that man 'get his way' by snarling and barking and being unpleasant? Or does he calmly and (usually) dispassionately describe both the good and bad points of you continuing to do what you're doing or not doing what he'd like you to do? EVEN when he's dropping the ban hammer, or slapping someone down on the blog: he isn't (often) angry and snippy; he states his position and takes his action. The God Emperor doesn't need to snark (although he does it brilliantly); mostly he just calmly describes what he objects to. "Fake News" -- is that snark or just truth? (Or both?)

(I used to work for a woman whom I watched with awe and astonishment: she was a sweetest (Southern <-- clue there!) woman; and yet she managed, with kindness and grace, to "force" (i.e., entice) people to do whatever was required and needed. I TRY to emulate her, but I think it's bred into Southern bones... NYers REALLY don't do it as well!)

Anonymous Avalanche August 31, 2017 12:21 PM  

@84 Nothing will destroy group morale faster than a negative spirit.

Hence Vox's 'rule' that despair is not allowed here. Brilliant. Instead of 'black clouds' sucking us down into a pit... we are required to maintain equilibrium and carry on.

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 12:21 PM  

@111

Damn.

That's how you earn respect boys. That right there.

Anonymous Korbin Ransley August 31, 2017 12:23 PM  

@111 I respect your intellect, enjoy your humor, and like your post. This one is exemplary. Inspirational response. Wishing you well Sir.

Anonymous fop August 31, 2017 12:25 PM  

I hope I have not been rude to him.

Didn't seem rude to me as a bystander, just tone deaf. Familiar jibing often does not come off well on the internets. Usually it seems presumptuous and negative.

Anonymous Stickwick August 31, 2017 12:31 PM  

Snidely Whiplash:

Vox,
Thanks for the critique.
You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?


What a contrast to the way Gammas respond to Vox.

Well done, Snidely.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 31, 2017 12:33 PM  

Vox,
Thanks for the critique.
You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?


Outstanding response

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 12:36 PM  

"You're gonna have to give examples. I did look, and came up with nothing but one drive-by."

he's to new to bother educating. One of the reasons Vox has such thick skin is the community here has busted his balls worse than anything any of his actual online enemies can do.

And that's not even remotely close to what his wife can do. Jesus.

Blogger Clint August 31, 2017 12:36 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Vox,

Thanks for the critique.

You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?


This folks, is how you respond to critique.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2017 12:39 PM  

Clint wrote:Snidely Whiplash wrote:Vox,

Thanks for the critique.

You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?


This folks, is how you respond to critique.


Like oil on your head -King Solomon

Blogger LP9 August 31, 2017 12:44 PM  

Well SnidelyWhip isn't someone to stay jobless forever but yeah he can be melancholic to negative. I hope things turn around for him and I hope he does well.

One of the reasons I use terms like team this or team that is to be positive, cheer the good on in life, given no one needs another positive comment but one positive comment among many is great energy. Cheering others on is what God would want.

Blogger Rabbi B August 31, 2017 12:47 PM  

Sarafina's Ghost wrote:Snidely is a complete dick and always has been. It matters not whether his opinion and ideas are informed. He's a dick. He's mean. He's obnoxious. This kind of personality impairment is guaranteed to come through in a job interview.

You're now offically the dickiest thing here. #PotKettle

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 12:48 PM  

Stryker4570 wrote:Proverbs 27:6

Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

This was the second thing that came to mind when I read the OP. The first thing was not worthy of repeating.
I had a problem when I was young accepting criticism, probably incipient gammatude. I recognized it, and made it a policy always to thank a person who criticized me honestly. It's made an enormous difference in my life.
Yes, Snidely is a persona, but yes, I am excessively negative and sometimes (especially lately) bitter. I try to keep a rein on it in a work situation.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 12:56 PM  

> Yes, Snidely is a persona, but yes, I am excessively negative and sometimes (especially lately) bitter.

We all have times when life gets us down. Been there, done that. Keep trying and eventually something usually breaks your way.

Blogger VD August 31, 2017 1:05 PM  

Thanks for the critique. You're right that I've not been upping my game. As much out of frustration as anything else, but since when is that an excuse?

You're welcome. Channel that frustration. Use it. Don't let the negativity become a vicious circle.

I was surprised when the consensus on Vox was pretty much, "Eh, he seems okay." High praise, from them.

/pol/ is always right.

Anonymous Korbin Ransley August 31, 2017 1:05 PM  

Definitely intend to come back to this Blog Post and comment section to look for insight, and tips for self improvement.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2017 1:08 PM  

If I might make an observation, Snidely, once definitely noticed the shift in attitude in your posts lately - but also in that you've really started spoiling for a fight. A lot of your comments are aimed to either incite or exacerbate a fight. And that has its place, but you've focused it on a lot of petty crap.

Maybe time to focus that frustration on something productive?

Blogger RobertT August 31, 2017 1:08 PM  

" And the real problem is finding people who know how to balance short-term business needs (implementing what the customer wants to get their business) with longer-term company needs (doing it in a way that is supportable over the long term and doesn't paint you into a corner.) "

The problem here is these people are making decisions they shouldn't be making. The real problem rests with senior execs who let these people do whatever they want. Eventually they will get the company into trouble.

Anonymous GregMan August 31, 2017 1:10 PM  

"Since my friend was mission-critical, he was given the opportunity to uproot his family and move across the country to a place they knew no one. He wisely declined. So much for stability and job security."

This. You simply cannot trust a company to provide you with a career anymore. I have been laid off a few times, and I never looked out-of-town. The thought of uprooting my entire family to another state with no friends, no family, and no support system, and then getting laid off anyway, simply horrified me.

That having been said, I have also accepted jobs that were "beneath me" just to not be unemployed any longer, and I always managed to clamber back to the level I should be at, maybe even a little better. It is ALWAYS easier to find another job when you already have one, even if it is "beneath" you. It may be frustrating, but it's important not to let that frustration show.

Anonymous fop August 31, 2017 1:16 PM  

It's like golf. A slight adjustment and your game takes off.

I predict Snidely will be getting some good offers very soon.

Blogger RobertT August 31, 2017 1:17 PM  

The internet is full of great mentors. Find a someone who is great at whatever you want and spend a week devouring everything he has produced. In a week you will now more about that topic than 99.5% of the world. Everything eventually evolves into giving paid advice or selling books. And to get to that point, they have to impress a sizeable number of people. If you really like them you can subscribe or buy their books. But it has been my experience that some of them make it very difficult to cancel a subscription.

Blogger William Meisheid August 31, 2017 1:22 PM  

Snidely, may God's best blessing be yours today. May they cascade upon you in overflowing fruitful plentitude. May jobs come knocking at both your front, back, and side doors. May opportunities overflow in your inbox and I pray you find, in addition to a decent job, what you really seek and find it in abundance.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira August 31, 2017 1:31 PM  

I'm working in a dirty old strip club for min wage while I hunt for my next programming job. Many are reluctant to hire me in Toronto because I'm a veteran, in spite of my warm and friendly personality.

However, Snidely's arrogant and superior tone is exactly what I've come to expect from most of the programmers, at least in my city. They look down their noses at anyone that's ever put a boot in the mud during the course of a work day.

Maybe I'll look into contributing to Info-galactic. I don't know how many more of these "roast beef sandwiches" I can hawk over here.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 1:51 PM  

S1AL wrote:but also in that you've really started spoiling for a fight. A lot of your comments are aimed to either incite or exacerbate a fight.
I do like a good scrap. It's a form of entertainment, really.

Daniel Paul Grech Pereira wrote:However, Snidely's arrogant and superior tone is exactly what I've come to expect from most of the programmers, at least in my city. They look down their noses at anyone that's ever put a boot in the mud during the course of a work day.
That's just false. Shall I tell you about scrubbing floors at SeaTac airport or scrubbing toilets at the evergreeen state college?
Yes, they do capitalize it that way.

Blogger Nate August 31, 2017 2:14 PM  

Snidely... Congratulations. You are officially Dread Ilk.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 2:35 PM  

Nate wrote:Snidely... Congratulations. You are officially Dread Ilk.
is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Blogger Clint August 31, 2017 2:37 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Nate wrote:Snidely... Congratulations. You are officially Dread Ilk.

is that a good thing or a bad thing?

It is always a good thing.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 31, 2017 2:39 PM  

@77

"I simply don't understand the fear of layoffs for a competent IT person."

Because sometimes, competence has NOTHING to do with it.

You're competent, but the project you're working on got cancelled...therefore, your whole team goes.

Or your entire department has been outsourced to Wipro and a band of H1-Bs here on fraudulent paperwork (H1-B law demands that the H1-B *NOT* be replacing an employed American worker. Wipro almost always lies about this.)

Anonymous Deplorable Winning August 31, 2017 2:57 PM  

Whisker biscuit wrote:I now know why everyone at Heartiste and every other blog in the alt-right movement despises Vox. He likes to flog loyal readers and try to humiliate them by posting a critique and letting the commenters pile...knowing everyone here is afraid to disagree. Cult of personalities never go far until the inevitable revolt.

1. You lie. You do not know "everyone's" opinion of anything. That's an extraordinary claim.

2. It wasn't a "flogging", it was a- successful!- lesson from a teacher. Learn the difference.

3. I've been "flogged" by VD on more than one occasion for being a massive retard, and I have appreciated and applied the lessons. Example:

Hey Vox, you really should... uh, nevermind. I retract and repent.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 2:58 PM  

Clint wrote:It is always a good thing.
Is this some fraternity hazing?
"Please sir, may I have another?"
"Congratulations, Pledge, you're now a Delt!"

Blogger Clint August 31, 2017 3:00 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Clint wrote:It is always a good thing.

Is this some fraternity hazing?

"Please sir, may I have another?"

"Congratulations, Pledge, you're now a Delt!"


Even better. I hear that you have been sent an email, so you might follow up on that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 3:00 PM  

Was I flogged? I seem to have missed that part.

I was criticized, for being an arsehole with a negative attitude and letting my bitterness air in public.

Maybe if I was a Gamma this would feel like a flogging.

Blogger Scott Birch August 31, 2017 3:02 PM  

Whiskey, I think the Mean Girls' table has plenty of seats to spare.

Blogger Scott Birch August 31, 2017 3:03 PM  

I'm in a similar position to Snidely and I've found this episode to be instructive.

Blogger Matthew August 31, 2017 3:04 PM  

What's funny is that I used the term "flogged" in the email without having read this far.

Blogger Matthew August 31, 2017 3:04 PM  

Scott Birch wrote:Whiskey, I think the Mean Girls' table has plenty of seats to spare.

Crap, for a second I thought the actual (HATE HATE HATE) Whiskey had showed up again.

Blogger 1337kestrel August 31, 2017 3:28 PM  

This is a depressing thread, but on the bright side, being roasted by the Dark Lord is a $500 value that Snidely got for free!

Blogger tz August 31, 2017 3:31 PM  

1. Misfortune is stressful, and sometimes you can't control the bitterness when you've just consumed a very bitter cup.

2. I once heard a description of heaven v.s. hell as simply a banquet where people's elbows were locked so arms were straight. So they could not get food into their own mouths. But they could pick up something and give it to another person. In hell it didn't happen. In heaven everyone was delighted to eat though they were feeding each other.

Constructive criticism is like that.

The hard part is accepting it without becoming defensive or combative, but listening and then deciding if it is valid or applicable or not.

It is hardest with art and aesthetic things since it is hard to find objective standards. And it is hard to separate I like X or his persona from I like X's work. Sometimes ugly people produce beauty and vice versa.

Blogger S1AL August 31, 2017 3:33 PM  

It's a shame we can't turn ALL of the gammas into remorseful dragons until they get better.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 31, 2017 3:35 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:I still can't get the thought process for what they expected of the "job" they got hired into.
There's your error.  They weren't looking for a job.  They were looking for a paycheck, and maybe a title.

dc.sunsets wrote:There are either a lot of 50+ unemployed men or a fair number of them gravitate to this blog.
The former is definitely true.  It's behind a good part of the "White death".

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 31, 2017 3:43 PM  

It's a shame we can't turn ALL of the gammas into remorseful dragons until they get better.

We just need a Night King

Blogger OneWingedShark August 31, 2017 4:02 PM  

CrystalBlue wrote:I once interviewed a candidate who claimed 3-5 years experience in the C programming language. He wasn't able to write one line of code. Another candidate claimed to have a PhD but we later found out that it was from a degree mill.
Personally, I think it would be better for "the industry" to start suing schools that issue degrees to the incompetent for fraud.

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Stryker4570 wrote:Proverbs 27:6

Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.


This was the second thing that came to mind when I read the OP. The first thing was not worthy of repeating.

I had a problem when I was young accepting criticism, probably incipient gammatude. I recognized it, and made it a policy always to thank a person who criticized me honestly. It's made an enormous difference in my life.

Yes, Snidely is a persona, but yes, I am excessively negative and sometimes (especially lately) bitter. I try to keep a rein on it in a work situation.

Well, I can certainly empathize; when I was younger I didn't take criticism too well, either. (Honestly, very few people take it well.)

And I can certainly empathize with the unemployment situation, being there myself presently -- it's really quite frustrating & demoralizing out there: from the auto-reject HR systems to the "5+ years experience entry level position" (probable H1B scam-posting) to the "you're overqualified" to the "just disappear on you after an interview" -- it's all pretty terrible.

Blogger daddynichol August 31, 2017 4:10 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Was I flogged? I seem to have missed that part.

I was criticized, for being an arsehole with a negative attitude and letting my bitterness air in public.

Maybe if I was a Gamma this would feel like a flogging.


What to stand tall, Snidely. Most of the older commentators here, including yours truly, have all taken a shot from Vox or other Ilk. Iron sharpens iron.

Blogger LP9 August 31, 2017 4:14 PM  

I don't think Snidelys a jerk, he is suffering from unemployment, it wears upon a persons mind and heart; prayer, compassion, dont give up, perhaps a mindset change would help.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 31, 2017 4:32 PM  

This was the second thing that came to mind when I read the OP. The first thing was not worthy of repeating.

Would have been my exact reaction. I'm still laughing over this.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 31, 2017 4:33 PM  

Also, I'm pretty sure "gamma" is now a worse insult here than "SJW" or "cuck".

Anonymous Deplorable Winning August 31, 2017 4:37 PM  

Matthew wrote:What's funny is that I used the term "flogged" in the email without having read this far.

How DARE you! I shall flog thee mightily for to win m'lady's good grace.

Blogger Nick S August 31, 2017 5:09 PM  

It's sometimes cathartic to write long drawn-out responses here, re-read them and then delete them.

Jumping the shark can be a pitfall of regularly visiting this blog...especially in the first few years.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 31, 2017 5:14 PM  

@145 is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends. How do you feel about Glocks?

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 5:28 PM  

> Jumping the shark can be a pitfall of regularly visiting this blog

Oh yeah. Most of us have done it. Some of us still do on occasion.

Blogger Nick S August 31, 2017 5:32 PM  

James Dixon wrote:Oh yeah. Most of us have done it. Some of us still do on occasion.

I almost did it...again. :)

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 5:53 PM  

OneWingedShark wrote:to the "just disappear on you after an interview" -- it's all pretty terrible.
My biggest gripe.
"We'll make a decision within a week and let you know."
Two weeks later you send an email or call and the cat lady HR flunkie apologizes and tells you that you weren't hired. Just call and say it lady!
It's so unbelievably unprofessional and so routine. It's happened to me 3 times in the last 3 weeks.

Anonymous Ze Swede August 31, 2017 6:07 PM  

VD, you truly are kind.

Despite his efforts i quite like Snidely but he is indeed too negative and bitter. I recognize myself in his behavior. I used to be in a very bad place and had been for a long time and iIused and some times still use the coping mechanisms snidely uses. Just hours after a terror attack while I was still in affect I posted some more correct info than what was posted here and snidely bit into me personally and basically called me a cuck without knowing anything. After I explained the situation in USian terms he sort of backed down but did not apologize or explicitly admit he was off. Because he cant. His self esteem is so low that he can not admit that he is skilled or that others are good. The only way for him to square his obvious superiority to normals is to minimize others because he cant bear to openly consider himself skilled it would mean his failures are his own responsibility.

Snidely, if you can, take Vox's advice to heart. Admit to yourself that you are pretty good and that others are too, even the middle of the bell curve that you look down on even while the are happy and employed and you are not because you think your competence and relative intelligence makes you not as bad as them. Stop your inverted pridefulness it leads to nowhere but unhappiness.

I might just be projecting but I think I got your number. Be humble and listen. I hope you find yourself in a better place soon. Good luck!

Blogger Mountain Man August 31, 2017 6:33 PM  

Just sent up a prayer that God will bring you work. You're a good man whose been dragged through the knot hole. Things will get better. I've known what it's like to be in your place...not that long ago.

Blogger OneWingedShark August 31, 2017 6:49 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:OneWingedShark wrote:to the "just disappear on you after an interview" -- it's all pretty terrible.

My biggest gripe.
"We'll make a decision within a week and let you know."

Two weeks later you send an email or call and the cat lady HR flunkie apologizes and tells you that you weren't hired. Just call and say it lady!

It's so unbelievably unprofessional and so routine. It's happened to me 3 times in the last 3 weeks.

It's often worse than that: no sort of contact to even say you didn't get the job... hell, I even told the HR guy at my most recent interview about it, and he said he'd be sure to call either way... he didn't.

Blogger JimR August 31, 2017 7:11 PM  

@167 "jumped the shark"

I first read that as "jumped the snark" it seemed oddly appropriate.

Kudos to Snidely for his responce.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 31, 2017 7:14 PM  

VD wrote:Channel that frustration. Use it.
This frustration has gotten me onto a number of odd channels in the past year, first celestial mechanics, and now chemistry.  With luck, you'll have a chance to read some of the results of the latter in the not-so-far future and possibly even use actual physical products yourself someday.

One of the fascinating outcomes of having filled my head with so many different things over the years is that I don't think I've been truly bored in a very long time.  Boredom was my nemesis in K-6, when the schools would not LET me learn what was actually new to me and my time outside of schoolwork was most of my real education.  So glad that's in the past.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 8:01 PM  

It's sometimes cathartic to write long drawn-out responses here, re-read them and then delete them.

I write and then delete at least one a day. Not as a matter of policy, but there will be at least one that I write and then decide would be better left unsaid.

Blogger dienw August 31, 2017 8:32 PM  

The thought of uprooting my entire family to another state with no friends, no family, and no support system, and then getting laid off anyway, simply horrified me.

Justifiably so. When you move about from town to town, the long term residents of the town look at you as a rootless, temporary denizen; they are reluctant to form long lasting business or social relationships, even political ones.

The same afflicts your children when you break their web of relationships. It becomes very difficult to develop professional relationships -- I write form the perspective of a Yankee artist in a fairly northern town -- in town wherein the majority of the members of professional groups know each other from cub scouts and up to AA.

Blogger rycamor August 31, 2017 8:44 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Nate wrote:Snidely... Congratulations. You are officially Dread Ilk.

is that a good thing or a bad thing?


It is a good thing, but it brings with it some dire burdens. Be ready.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat August 31, 2017 8:44 PM  

A minor point in the above raises an important question. Why are H1Bs who have been laid off still in the country?

Anonymous Crackle August 31, 2017 8:55 PM  

"My biggest gripe.
"We'll make a decision within a week and let you know."
Two weeks later you send an email or call and the cat lady HR flunkie apologizes and tells you that you weren't hired. Just call and say it lady!
It's so unbelievably unprofessional and so routine. It's happened to me 3 times in the last 3 weeks."

It's unlikely your problem isn't with the way they told you the job wasn't yours. It's more likely your problem was telling the interview they are "a stupid, dipsh*t SJW with no credibility and who will be a delightful victim when the worm turns" when they asked you why you were at your last job for only 2 weeks.

YOU are the dipsh*t and you can't erase stripes once they are on.

Anonymous Crew August 31, 2017 8:56 PM  

@Scott Birch: Got any PHP experience, or even C++ experience, or even just a willingness to learn. We need more people helping out at Infogalactic.

Send email to rifleman@infogalactic.com or crew@infogalactic.com telling us of your experience.

If nothing else you will gain some more experience and we can always give you a reference.

OpenID Sidehill Dodger August 31, 2017 9:08 PM  

LP9 wrote:I don't think Snidelys a jerk, he is suffering from unemployment, it wears upon a persons mind and heart; prayer, compassion, dont give up, perhaps a mindset change would help.
Certainly. But Snidely acts like a jerk. And he acts like he enjoys jerkiness. I think Vox is doing him a favor by asking him to look closely at whether or not this attitude might be carrying over into his work life (or work search). If it is, he is hurting himself, and he should stop. There have been times in my life when a good hard kick in the butt did me a whole lot more good than kind words.

For what it's worth, Snidely, I was once in your place. I was in my mid fifties when I got the boot. The previous 15 years had been the greatest of my work life. I had morphed my job until I wound up doing more stuff I liked than stuff I hated. I had my own office. I successfully avoided promotion to management. My boss listened to me, and listened to my advice. The fact that she was a lesbian with two kids didn't stop her from being a great boss. She didn't bring it to work, and I paid it no mind. Did I mention that this was in North Texas? That probably moderated the climate.

Then the company got acquired by one of the big dogs in the tech industry, with headquarters in San Convergio or something. They turned up the temperature slowly. In fact, things stayed relatively good for another couple of years.

But then I started experiencing little rude shocks. For example, on Tuesday, November 5, 1996 I was forced to attend a sensitivity training class. I remember the exact day, because the convergence of this class and the re-election of Bill Clinton had an overwhelmingly depressing effect that required the self-administration of a memorably immoderate dose of spirits.

Then I noticed a distinct cooling off in my relationship with my boss. Much too late, I realized that I had made what might be interpreted as a derogatory comment to a woman at a meeting. (Something like, "C'mon, it's not rocket science, Gina"). Well, Gina and my boss went way back. They spent a lot of time giggling in her office (which was right next door to mine). I realized I had made a Serious Tactical Error, but what could I do about it? You can't apologize for saying something true--or at least I've always found that impossible. Gina was simply a bubble-head. She spent her time doing things nobody cared about, and complaining to HR about men harassing her.

Then I had a heart attack and triple bypass. By the time I came back, some managers who were my friends had quit, and a reorg had taken my job and moved it to California. I scrambled, and found another job in the same building (thus keeping my nice office), and lasted another couple of years. But I distinctly felt a cold wind at my back.

As it happened, I wasn't singled out when the end came--the company laid off the whole organization I was in. The only upside was that Gina was part of the same group. And my erstwhile boss got the axe, too.

Or so I thought. A week later, they were both back. Huh? The lesbian and her girl-friend were the only ones of those 100+ people who got their jobs back. Hard to explain, eh?

Well, I tried not to think about this, found myself a contract job, then a "real" job--thus having two jobs at once and making more money than I have made in any other year before or since.

If I stop the story here, it has a reasonably happy ending.

Blogger James Dixon August 31, 2017 9:57 PM  

> I think Vox is doing him a favor by asking him to look closely at whether or not this attitude might be carrying over into his work life...

Well, if Vox had said that might be the problem, I don't think I would have disagreed. That's not exactly what he said.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 10:02 PM  

Crackle wrote:It's more likely your problem was telling the interview they are "a stupid, dipsh*t SJW with no credibility and who will be a delightful victim when the worm turns" when they asked you why you were at your last job for only 2 weeks.
A thread like this really brings out every gamma whose ass I've kicked over the years.

Blogger Sevron August 31, 2017 10:12 PM  

How do employers see somebody who was in a round of layoffs and started their own company, but it didn't work out?

Anonymous Deplorable Winning August 31, 2017 10:28 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:A thread like this really brings out every gamma whose ass I've kicked over the years.

You already won. Bounce the rubble at your pleasure and peril. (Fwiw, I think Snidely Whiplash is an hilarious appellation.)


Mr. Rational wrote:This frustration me. With luck, you'll have a chance yourself someday.

the fascinating outcomes my head I don't think I've. my nemesis would not LET me to me and my time of my real past.


Thanks for sharing but let's talk about you.

Blogger rycamor August 31, 2017 11:00 PM  

Sevron wrote:How do employers see somebody who was in a round of layoffs and started their own company, but it didn't work out?

Generally positively, as someone who doesn't just sit around when unemployed. Some actually like to hire a failed businessman because that guy is likely to be thankful for a steady job, and so exhausted from the last attempt that he'll stay put awhile.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2017 11:03 PM  

Deplorable Winning wrote:You already won. Bounce the rubble at your pleasure and peril.
Thing is, I have no idea who this clown is, and don't care enough to look it up. But his butt still hurts, so there's that.

Anonymous Crew August 31, 2017 11:26 PM  

@rycamor: I promise I will review the document. Probably this long weekend.

I fixed my kernel hang so now I am less stressed.

Anonymous Rolf August 31, 2017 11:27 PM  

@143 – Snidely, if you are still in the greater Seattle area, drop me a note and let’s get together for a metaphorical beer or something.

Anonymous Just another commenter August 31, 2017 11:29 PM  

@30 – ditto
@34 – yes. Not only in tech, though.
@55 – thinking hard about what he said now. Yes, I’m capable. Yes, I’m smart. Yes, I’m my own worst enemy. So… how to fix?
@60 – I suspect you speak for many folks.
@102 – ditto
@103 – LOL
@111 – Bravo!
@132 – I hear you. People look at me funny when I say I really want honest feedback and critique, especially if negative, because they are not used to it and are uncomfortable giving it. I tend toward being contrary. If surrounded by wet blankets, I’m very upbeat and looking for the good side of things. If surrounded by people who see nothing but the good, my first urge is to point out potential problems and pitfalls. It’s a hard nature to fight, in part because it comes across as sarcasm too often; they do not see the truth or help intended. But acknowledging reality, and making a conscious effort to keep aware of it and correct it as appropriate, is a much needed first step I’m working on.
@177 – yes, indeed. Several unsent emails in the DRAFT folder to remind me of that.

Anonymous Crew August 31, 2017 11:29 PM  

Heh, now I can go do some shit-posting on @Gab!

Point out just how much winning the God Emperor Trump is allowing us to have!

Blogger Elder Son August 31, 2017 11:38 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Crackle wrote:It's more likely your problem was telling the interview they are "a stupid, dipsh*t SJW with no credibility and who will be a delightful victim when the worm turns" when they asked you why you were at your last job for only 2 weeks.

A thread like this really brings out every gamma whose ass I've kicked over the years.


Bwaahahaha. So, there's that. I'm betting you come of as a legend in your own mind at every interview. And then wonder why you never get the, call back. Because, you were fired, before you were hired.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 31, 2017 11:39 PM  

@193

Speaking of winning, the Awan trial begins tomorrow. Potentially one of the biggest stories of corruption in US history, and almost no one is talking about it yet. I don't know if it will get interesting on day #1, but it should at some point unless he rolls on bigger fish for a deal.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 01, 2017 12:19 AM  

It was pretty clear to me Snidely misunderstood what Crew was saying. Maybe chalk it up to frustration. Vox's criticism was correct, and Snidely's response as well.

None of us are prefect. But all of us can be better tomorrow than we are today, if we want it.

(and Crew, I apologize I've been so damn awol. paid work has swamped me like I couldn't believe. )

Anonymous Mr. Nateural September 01, 2017 12:53 AM  

"The moment I hear that negative, superior tone in a man's voice, I immediately cross him off the list, whether he's a programmer, an artist, or a writer. "

Pot. Kettle.

Blogger OneWingedShark September 01, 2017 1:58 AM  

Crackle wrote:"My biggest gripe.

"We'll make a decision within a week and let you know."

Two weeks later you send an email or call and the cat lady HR flunkie apologizes and tells you that you weren't hired. Just call and say it lady!

It's so unbelievably unprofessional and so routine. It's happened to me 3 times in the last 3 weeks."

It's unlikely your problem isn't with the way they told you the job wasn't yours. It's more likely your problem was telling the interview they are "a stupid, dipsh*t SJW with no credibility and who will be a delightful victim when the worm turns" when they asked you why you were at your last job for only 2 weeks.

YOU are the dipsh*t and you can't erase stripes once they are on.

No, he's right: I've had several HR-types say they'll contact me with information about getting or not-getting the job only for them to never send word of any kind -- then when I contact them it's exactly as Snidely says: an insincere "apology" and a "you didn't get the job".

It's really quite frustrating.

Anonymous Evolve, or remain chimpanzees September 01, 2017 3:01 AM  

5343 Kinds of Deplorable wrote:Also, I'm pretty sure "gamma" is now a worse insult here than "SJW" or "cuck".

When VD introduced the concept of the "Sigma" nearly everybody here at the time decided they were a Sigma. It could be that they were all lying then, or it could be that all social hierarchies are fluid.

In any event, all name calling is juvenile. You're as much a Nazi as somebody else is a Cuck or a Gamma, and vice versa. You'd think we'd have learned this from decades of Liberals and Conservatives name-calling each other every election period, but in the end, we're all lightly evolved chimps and we like to fight.

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