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Wednesday, August 23, 2017

Cloudflare CEO ponders his action

And the answer is, no, Mr. Prince, you were not right to pull the plug on a Nazi website.
I helped kick a group of neo-Nazis off the internet last week, but since then I’ve wondered whether I made the right decision.... At some level, it’s easy to fire Nazis as customers. They don’t pay you much, if anything, since Cloudflare offers a free version of its service. Our terms of use give us broad discretion to choose whom we allow to use our network. Beyond the horrible content, the Daily Stormer began claiming that we secretly supported their ideology, causing a major distraction to our team. Firing a Nazi customer gets you glowing notes from around the world thanking you for standing up to hate.

But a week later, I continue to worry about this power and the potential precedent being set. The reality of today’s internet is that if you are publishing anything even remotely controversial, your site will get cyberattacked. Without a massive global network similar to Cloudflare’s, it is nearly impossible to withstand the barrage. Only a small group of companies—names you know, like Facebook , Google and Microsoft , along with a handful of others you may not, like Cloudflare—have sufficient scale to keep their users online.

The upshot is that a few private companies have effectively become the gatekeepers to the public square—the blogs and social media that serve as today’s soapboxes and pamphlets. If a handful of tech executives decide to block you from their services, your content effectively can’t be on the internet.

Before terminating the Daily Stormer, Cloudflare’s policy had been to stay neutral to the content that used our network. We’d comply with the law in the jurisdictions where we operate, but we wouldn’t bow to political or public pressure to boot anyone off our network. And make no mistake, there is pressure: Hackers actually tweeted to us asking that we get out of the way so they could take down the Daily Stormer.

When standing up to government requests or angry Twitter demands to silence unpopular speech, it was powerful to be able to say we’d never terminated a customer due to political pressure. I’m not sure we can say that anymore.
Dear Mr. Prince,

In answer to your question posed in the Wall Street Journal today, the answer is no. Here are five reasons why:
  • You sacrificed Cloudflare's moral authority and neutrality.
  • You contributed to the increasing fragmentation of the Internet.
  • You threw away any chance to meaningfully oppose the growing movement towards national Internet sovereignty. How can you possibly claim that China and Turkey, or any other government, don't have the right to thought-police you when you are thought-policing others?
  • You encouraged other big tech companies to do the same, thereby leading tens of thousands of people to initiate backup plans in the event they are deplatformed for their opinions.
  • You gave in to the SJWs and informed them that you are susceptible to their pressure. You can safely expect further demands to functionally deplatform other sites under attack.
I am no fan of the Daily Stormer. It is obnoxious and their writers have personally attacked me on more than one occasion. Nevertheless, I would encourage you to invite the site back to Cloudfare, while at the same time making a public statement that Cloudflare will no longer thought-police Internet content and will not deny its services to any site that is in compliance with the law.

Sincerely,
Vox Day

Labels: ,

128 Comments:

Blogger Elocutioner August 23, 2017 1:08 PM  

Vox's plan is the obvious one for Cloudflare to redeem itself and possibly remain a viable business long term. That Mr Prince is still wrestling with the problem indicates he should probably be removed as well.

Blogger random Earth dweller August 23, 2017 1:11 PM  

Daily Stormer was very funny. I miss the lulz

Blogger Paul Widdecombe August 23, 2017 1:12 PM  

Just download the Tor browser. Is still up on the dark web.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 23, 2017 1:15 PM  

Bake the damn cake

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar August 23, 2017 1:15 PM  

The Promethean was tagged over at InstaPundit.

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/273436/

FYI

Blogger maniacprovost August 23, 2017 1:18 PM  

I'm puzzled as to how one can be so morally incontinent as to not know whether you support A) free speech and neutrality or B) speech policing in the name of Righteousness.

Blogger Ostar August 23, 2017 1:19 PM  

If these companies like Cloudflare, Google, Facebook, etc., want to deny law-abiding citizens access to their public services for private reasons (i.e., having nothing to do with legal violations), then truly treating these companies as public utilities and regulating them to protect consumer rights becomes a valid argument.

Anonymous VFM 9054 August 23, 2017 1:20 PM  

Obvious implications of internet companies policing content are that anyone is vulnerable to being no platformed by them at any time, for any reason, including no reason at all. But also that anything that they allow to stay up, they support. Because if they didn't agree with the content they would remove it. So all the ISIS videos on YouTube? YouTube supports terrorism. And if you help YouTube by watching their ads, you are helping them support terrorism. Hell, at this point we can say for sure that CloudFlare supports terrorism.

A content neutral internet is best for everyone.

Blogger Lazarus August 23, 2017 1:21 PM  

I like Steve Sailer's take:

Silicon Valley monopolists are currently on the warpath against those who speak up for national solidarity. Those blessed with an abundance of private wealth are paying to demonize those whose main asset is their American nationality. Those with all the money in the world want to debauch the scarcity value of American citizenship in order to get even richer. And they don’t take kindly to dissent. …

This is class war disguised as race war.

Anonymous Casual August 23, 2017 1:23 PM  

Looking at this from a CIO standpoint, why would I ever trust a piece of my infrastructure to a company that will fold to pressure like this? If it happened once, you can be sure it'll happen again. These companies are damaging their brands even if they don't fully recognize it right now.

Blogger Sillon Bono August 23, 2017 1:23 PM  

The Daily Stormer was/is hilarious at times, but this chap from cloudflare while wrong to cancel the service, did hit one nail.

Andrew Anglin and the rest of the nazi-larpers should own their shit and stop the bullshit that public figures are secret nazi-larpers too, when you search a name online and it appears on questionable websites some people freak out, if not outright get upset about it.

This is the same thing when David Duke doesn't drop the word "Trump" from his mouth.

And I repeat, I think that what happened to the daily stormer is a crime against freedom in the internet, people doing edgy content should "own it" and do not use the name of others in vain.

Blogger Johnny August 23, 2017 1:23 PM  

I got upset when they closed the Daily Stormer, mainly because of how easy it is to impose censorship. Not that I see merit in pushing the Nazi cause. Somebody over there was a fairly good writer. Managed to keep it light despite the heavy duty topics. And they were over the top nasty at times.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 23, 2017 1:24 PM  

Elocutioner wrote:Vox's plan is the obvious one for Cloudflare to redeem itself and possibly remain a viable business long term. That Mr Prince is still wrestling with the problem indicates he should probably be removed as well.

If he doesn't see the huge opportunity afforded to him then he is a fool. He has very little to differential himself from google, facebook etc. If he stood up for free speech while the others throw it under the bus he both maintains the moral high ground and carves out a niche for his business that the others could not hope to capture. Instead he has chosen to be the other companies "me too" little brother.

Blogger Salt August 23, 2017 1:25 PM  

" the Daily Stormer began claiming that we secretly supported their ideology, causing a major distraction to our team."

Demanding cease and desist with retraction or termination would be proper, in that respect.

Blogger Lazarus August 23, 2017 1:26 PM  

First they came for the Nazi Larpers, and I was not a Nazi Larper so I did nothing........

Anonymous fop August 23, 2017 1:33 PM  

Pandora wonders, "Did I do the right thing opening up that box?"

Anonymous map August 23, 2017 1:35 PM  

Does AT&T have the right to cut off your phone service if they don't like what you say?

Does Commonwealth Edison have the right the cut off your power if they don't like what you say?

Does People's Gas have the right to cut off your natural gas supply because they don;t like what you say?

Do the totality of these companies have the right to collude to cut off your phone, power or gas?

What do all of these entities have in common?

They all thought they were "private companies."

Learn the language:

Common Carrier.
Public Utility.

Blogger Matthew August 23, 2017 1:36 PM  

Sillon Bono wrote:Andrew Anglin and the rest of the nazi-larpers should own their shit and stop the bullshit that public figures are secret nazi-larpers too

Anglin and weev have claimed this is a lie.

Blogger Johnny August 23, 2017 1:36 PM  

Lazarus wrote:First they came for the Nazi Larpers, and I was not a Nazi Larper so I did nothing........

Seems like that is where we are headed to me.

Maybe our kind of open democracy that has been run for a couple of hundred years no is no longer likely to produce good outcomes. Perhaps the globalist stuff, the bigger ethnic or cultural minorities, and the introduction of European style politics have damaged the system. If so we are headed for greater regimentation, and the major issue will be what faction implements.

Blogger Giraffe August 23, 2017 1:41 PM  

They also gave the Daily Stormer a some free publicity.

Anonymous Johnny Mayonnaise August 23, 2017 1:43 PM  

I helped kick a group of neo-Nazis off the internet last week, but since then I’ve wondered whether I made the right decision.

Actually, this hints that Prince knew upfront he was making the immoral and illogical choice. The rampant social pressures and the ongoing media indoctrination were simply too much for him.

Blogger Mocheirge August 23, 2017 1:43 PM  

Lazarus wrote:First they came for the Nazi Larpers, and I was not a Nazi Larper so I did nothing........

I think it should go more like this:

First they came for the Nazi larpers, and because I'm a Nazi larper, I did nothing.

Blogger Flair1239 August 23, 2017 1:44 PM  

Mr. prince does not want an answer. He wants to two-way virtue signal. He gets to be a hero to the Left for kicking out the Daily Stormer, then he tries to pander to Libertarians by pretending to be morally troubled by the decision.

It is just virtue signaling and damage control.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 23, 2017 1:45 PM  

He wants to two-way virtue signal.

Perceptive, and likely correct.

Blogger Jan Minář August 23, 2017 1:46 PM  

From a business perspective, it's a liability. Read the article. Free speech ain't free, and if you're using free-tier services and troll the company, it's easy to let you go.

People who value free speech would do well to give value and not rely on subsidies from their hosts. That way the eventual denial of business becomes its own punishment (see Twitter and plebbit).

Blogger Cail Corishev August 23, 2017 1:50 PM  

@7 That's exactly it. These companies (ISPs at one end and hosting companies at the other) have protected themselves by claiming to be like public utilities: "We just provide the service, and we don't care how you use it as long as it's not illegal. If the cops show up with a search warrant or we get a legal order to take you down, we will comply, but otherwise we're hands off, eyes closed." That way they weren't responsible for whatever you were doing, the same way the phone company isn't responsible if you make phone calls to plan a murder.

If they start proactively policing content, then they are clearly not like public utilities, and they are potentially liable for whatever content they transmit. So they could be sued if someone uses their server to transmit the recipe for a bomb and then uses that information to kill people, for instance.

It was one thing to shut down free social media accounts for charges of racism. Free stuff doesn't come with much rights. But these are paid, contracted services. A vague TOS that gives them the technical right to do it doesn't mean they aren't opening up a whole can of worms on themselves by doing so.

That's really not where they want to be. The Internet as we have known it can't function that way. Everyone in the business understood that until a couple weeks ago.

Blogger mark auld August 23, 2017 1:55 PM  

Homebrewer is exactly right, big opportunity for cloudless to separate itself from the pack...lost!

Blogger Jan Minář August 23, 2017 1:56 PM  

Reading the addendum to his original blog post, he got redpilled in a brutal way by what happened after he fired DS as a customer. He's Paul on the way to Damascus.

Blogger VD August 23, 2017 2:01 PM  

Anglin and weev have claimed this is a lie.

Who gives a quantum of a rat's shit what either of those Reichtards have to say about anything anymore? They are both shameless liars.

Weev's attempt to give the Obama infiltrator Jason Kessler an out after he admitted to his own words was particularly informative.

Blogger Zaklog the Great August 23, 2017 2:03 PM  

Also, an ideologically-neutral company merely can ignore political attacks. They have now opened themselves up to attacks that, because they host such-and-such a site, they obviously agree with them. They have put themselves in a very unstable position here.

Blogger FALPhil August 23, 2017 2:07 PM  

@7 ...treating these companies as public utilities and regulating them to protect consumer rights becomes a valid argument...

Be careful what you wish for. Personally, I don't see an up side to either approach.

Blogger sysadmn August 23, 2017 2:11 PM  

Oh Mr. Prince, you've opened the floodgates. Jewish? Demand those anti-semitic BDS (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) Movement websites be banned. Pro-BDS? Demand those Zionist websites be removed. Pro-LBGTQEIEIO? Demand the anti-LBGTQEIEIO hate sites be removed! Anti-LBGTQEIEIO? Demand those pro-pedophile LBGTQEIEIO websites be removed!

Best of all, since you've taken a stand on one issue, refusing to take a stand on any other is implicit support for that position. Now you're an anti-semitic Zionist-loving anti-LBGTQEIEIO pro-pedophile hater.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass August 23, 2017 2:11 PM  

I despise the Daily Stormer and Reichtards. Nonetheless, if Cloudfare's CEO was serious about his moral compass (which he talks about near the article's end) he wouldn't have dropped the Stormer as a client.

As others have said, it leads to censorship. What is interesting is how all of the Internet is not accessible at any one given time. If someone finds a way to weaponize that against Twitter, Facebook, etc. the results to stock and savings would be devastating.

OT but hilarious: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/23/firefighters-sausages-piglets-saved-blaze-wiltshire

Blogger Cail Corishev August 23, 2017 2:15 PM  

Anglin and weev have claimed this is a lie.

Something about the phrase "a major distraction for our team" sets my teeth on edge and makes me think they're probably right. My guess (and that's all it is) is that someone threatened to take them down, and DS said something like, "Good luck, our hosting company is behind us 100%," meaning, "Cloudflare supports the general idea that people should be free to say what they want online as long as it's not illegal, so they will stand behind us." But one or more SJWs at Cloudflare took it to mean, "supports everything we say," and screamed at everyone else at Cloudflare that Something Must Be Done because someone might call them Nazis.

OpenID aew51183 August 23, 2017 2:17 PM  

For a while the stormer was back up on a .lol gtld and bitmitigate

The domain registry has once again been pulled, but bitmitigate has established its cred for actual neutrality.

Either way, the continued hounding of the stormer's domain heralds the end of the surface net.

I can see the surface net being used to serve p2p protocols and torrent trackers with a white landing page, but anything resembling the pre-2014 internet will end up on .onion addresses at this point.

Smart libertarian-leaning lobbyists at this point should be asking congress to codify a legal framework by whereby registering yourself as an exit node with the justice department nullifies the use of your ip as "probable cause" for search warrants.

Anonymous krymneth August 23, 2017 2:18 PM  

If it was true that the Daily Stormer was claiming that Cloudflare supported them, I wouldn't have blinked if Cloudflare kicked them for that reason. I just reviewed their ToS and they don't appear to have an explicit clause restricting you from claiming endorsement by Cloudflare, but it's a common enough clause that had they cited that as the reason I'd have been fine. (Also assuming it is someone who is plausibly someone responsible for the site and not just random commenters.)

Instead, with this casus belli staring them right in the face, they explicitly and publicly made it a unilateral decision by the CEO for partisan political reasons.

Stupid.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 23, 2017 2:20 PM  

It should be sufficient for information service providers to state that they do not allow content that violates the law.

Anonymous Faceless August 23, 2017 2:20 PM  

I honestly thought Cloudfare would choose death before dishonor on this one and refuse to take anything down, ever. They are in the business of selling reachability when your site is taking incoming fire. I've not fully grokked this change that's come to the Internet in the last week, but the WWW as we've known it for 25 years is over.

Blogger ace August 23, 2017 2:22 PM  

Flair1239 wrote:Mr. prince does not want an answer. He wants to two-way virtue signal. He gets to be a hero to the Left for kicking out the Daily Stormer, then he tries to pander to Libertarians by pretending to be morally troubled by the decision.

It is just virtue signaling and damage control.


Exactly. He has made himself out to be either a worm or a dunce.

Blogger tz August 23, 2017 2:24 PM  

@6

The line is not between racism and diversity, it is between freedom and tyranny.

Racism is merely the excuse to become a tyrant, and hope that your dictatorship will be benevolent enough you won't be overthrown like Quadaffi.

This is the error everyone outside - including the alt-lite - are making about the alt-right. It is subtle, but the alt-right is about freedom, but a truthful freedom. Western Civilization and Christendom and the Rule of Law and Truth are all open and free for anyone to adopt. Only one narrow demographic managed to do so, and even then it slowly eroded.

Before, there was a goal of assimilation, and the 1965 demographic had a chance of being pulled further toward America 1.0.

Instead we let foreign views, cultures, etc. immigrate, and allowed minorities to descend into a barbaric culture.

In 1920 and 1960, most black families were the strong traditional nuclear type. Now it is a matriarchy of out of wedlock births from random men. It took one generation to unlearn. I doubt it can be relearned in one generation - 40 years - assuming anyone is willing to do what is necessary to attempt it.

But here is where a Civic Nationalist is either alt-right or cuckservative - which is MORE important since you can only have one - censorship or the freedom to use "hate speech". Are you willing to discuss and debate those who would have spoke at the Unite the Right or at least the issues they bring up or should they be shadowbanned from polite company (thinking Joe Sobran from NR).

If you look past the implementation details or lack thereof, the alt-right believes in freedom in all it's terrible glory. The cucks and alt-left wish to be tyrants, perhaps in a magnificent tyranny, and ultimately in theft, fraud, and violence if necessary to keep the bad-think out.

The alt-right makes memes and laughs at different views.

The left/cucks are offended and want to ban such expression.

So that is the choice. The freedom of association, thought, conscience, speech, and expression on the alt-right, or tyranny everywhere else. In this case there is no middle ground.

(Note that I didn't include reasoning or rationality - I can only deride stupidity, not ban it if I want liberty; the left bans wrongthink rational discussion).

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 2:30 PM  

It's like he just got home from buying his first Glock and is wondering, "Uh, what did I just do?".

Anonymous Chemist August 23, 2017 2:31 PM  

I have a legal question. Purely hypothetical

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online, doesn't my internet provider has the obligation to take it down and even inform the police about it? After all, it is something you can use to kill people.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 August 23, 2017 2:35 PM  

Occidental Dissent is back up and they have a functional link to the daily stormer under a Recent Post titled "the Daily Stormer Lives".

Hunter Wallace is too socialistic for me and I've never been to the daily stormer before, but they are defenders of White America and I'm glad they're aggressively defiant even though they're not truly Alt-Right.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 2:37 PM  

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online,

Just create it as a chain letter and use an overseas ISP in Nigeria or China to spam from. Subject line: Make Ricin Fast!
What could possibly go wrong?

Blogger DonReynolds August 23, 2017 2:38 PM  

Excellent and timely comment, Vox.
Of course, what nobody cares to mention is the FACT that these moral pigs have no qualms about hosting the most vile, violent, depraved, and outrageous sites on the internet.....everything from beastiatlity to rape and bloody brutality, including underaged children. Everything conceivable, and many other things I am sure I cannot imagine, can be found on porn sites.....57 genders? I don't doubt it. As long as they do not insist on calling themselves Nazis per se, then that is perfectly acceptable to the internet gods. (My sensibilities are not easily offended in this area, but even I have my limits.)

What about all those ISIS recruiting sites on the internet? Al Qeda? Muslim Brotherhood? Maybe a thousand other "separate" organizations, many featuring murder and torture on their web sites. Have they been disturbed, of course not.
(Think those are not Nazis? Check it out, they were allied with Hitler during the war....even the Grand Mufti himself.)

After the shooting in Charleston, there was a major effort by every major corporation to purge All Things Confederate from their catalogs and shelves....most especially Confederate battle flags or anything that included one. AT THE SAME TIME, that the retail giants were trying to ban the Confederate flag, they were selling other flags (much more sinister and threatening) than anything Confederate.....that includes ISIS flags, Black Nationalist flags, BLM flag, Antifa flag, Nazi flags, Japanese battle flags, Italian fascist flags, Viet Cong flag, North Korean flag, USSR flag, Red China flag. In fact, if you were a history buff and collected flags as a hobby (without any ideological bent or purpose), you could buy any flag you wanted from the big retailers....except the Confederate flag.

Anonymous Mycroft Jones August 23, 2017 2:38 PM  

National Sovereignty over the Internet will be a good thing. Necessary even. Foreigners are using it to "cruise" the people here, to list their assets.

When the Vikings came to England, it wasn't an accident. They knew where the gold and silver was. They learned by their earlier trade expeditions. The Internet has been sharing with the whole world, exactly where all the future slaves and gold are.

We only stopped the Muslim slave raids on Europe less than 200 years ago. Are we really going to go back to that?

The Internet is keeping people tied to their home countries like never before. Example: 13 year old African girl comes to visit my kids. While there, her phone is beeping non-stop. Adult African men are hitting her up through social media, wanting to meet her, marry her, come to Canada. A Muslim Asian girl comes to Canada. Her eyes are glued to the cell phone 12 hours a day, her father complains. Every selfie and photo she takes is scrutinized back home. No matter how slutty they are back home, once they are here, their whole social circle keeps tabs on them, scrutinizing every picture for signs that she has left the tribe or the faith. The males they don't seem to care about. Smart Muslims; they understand that the tribe has no future if the wombs are removed or corrupted.

Anonymous Johnny Mayonnaise August 23, 2017 2:39 PM  

@42 Chemist

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online, doesn't my internet provider has the obligation to take it down and even inform the police about it?

Maybe. So?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 23, 2017 2:42 PM  

@40 I don't see it as quite that clear cut, as I no longer support or value the freedoms of those who are intent on destroying America 1.0 or the European nations. And I believe this is the mindset that the Alt Right needs to adopt, especially those of us who have leaned strongly libertarian in the past.

We're well beyond simple disagreements of the sort Voltaire had in mind. What we have today is a set of people who habitually lie in order to gain popular support for enslaving us. It is said that the pen is mightier than the sword, and justice therefore requires that the media face appropriate consequences for their attacks on America and Europe perpetrated with the pen.

Anonymous Casey August 23, 2017 2:48 PM  

The SPLC is pissed because their Daily Stormer false front has been relegated to the shadows.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 23, 2017 2:49 PM  

I've not fully grokked this change that's come to the Internet in the last week

I think many people spent some time last week poring over Terms Of Service and Acceptable Use Policies that they'd only glanced previously. I was reading one and noticed that the modification date was fairly recent, August 1. Things that make you go, "Hmm."

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online,

When I search for that, not only do I get several recipes, but the fourth one is on a Google service, Google Groups. It's been there for four years.

No, your provider has no obligation to take it down or inform anyone, unless provided with a court order to do so. That was the whole point of how all this stuff was setup. Everyone between the content provider and the person reading it is just providing a pipe for content to flow through, entirely ignorant of what flows. That's the only way it can work the way it has worked.

Blogger Elder Son August 23, 2017 2:55 PM  

Wait until a Babelist centered Internet Governing Body shall think to change the times and the law. For peace and equality.

They are not going to care what you think. Much less muh free-speech.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd August 23, 2017 3:00 PM  

Chemist wrote:If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online ...

You will find that Kurt Saxon beat you to it decades ago.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 23, 2017 3:07 PM  

(Think those are not Nazis? Check it out, they were allied with Hitler during the war....even the Grand Mufti himself.)

@45 DonReynolds
Yet another indication that Nazis were leftists: they admired Islam and willingly allied with Muslims. Heck, Hitler thought it would be a good idea if Germany as a whole converted to Islam... despite the fact that that devil religion turns nations into low-IQ inbred perverted dunces.

Anonymous Thales August 23, 2017 3:10 PM  

If these companies like Cloudflare, Google, Facebook, etc., want to deny law-abiding citizens access to their public services for private reasons (i.e., having nothing to do with legal violations), then truly treating these companies as public utilities and regulating them to protect consumer rights becomes a valid argument.

If they won't police themselves...

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 3:10 PM  

How would Mr. Prince react if the data carriers he use decide that Cloudflare has broken their TOS, therefore they won't provide their service to Cloudflare anymore? Surprised outrage?


Some dead white male once said, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? but he was probably racist, sexist, maybe homophobic and even Fascist.

Blogger DonReynolds August 23, 2017 3:10 PM  

@42 Chemist wrote:I have a legal question. Purely hypothetical

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online, doesn't my internet provider has the obligation to take it down and even inform the police about it? After all, it is something you can use to kill people.


Why bother with the internet? Just cut out the middleman and send it directly to the FBI. Think that would take too long? The FBI has a listing in the yellow pages of the phone book. Just give them a buzz and tell them your plans. They will share the call with every org in Homeland Security...and don't forget to say "Alla Snackbar!".
Later you can tell them it was all just a joke....but you are a chemist and you do need the money. That should work.

Blogger Dave August 23, 2017 3:12 PM  

Chemist wrote:I have a legal question. Purely hypothetical

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online, doesn't my internet provider has the obligation to take it down and even inform the police about it? After all, it is something you can use to kill people.


How many people this year have been killed via trucks and van? Vehicle dealers advertise online and rental companies even allow reservations to be made online. Uh-oh, better put a stop to that.

Blogger Dedd Sirius August 23, 2017 3:14 PM  

Winning is racist.

Blogger Robert August 23, 2017 3:16 PM  

Am I silly to be worried about the government cutting off my Social Security and even state pension payments if I express sentiments the government, ruled by liberals, find unacceptable?
The immediate response (but, but, they can't do that!!) I don't find reassuring.

Blogger YIH August 23, 2017 3:19 PM  

Paul Widdecombe wrote:Just download the Tor browser. Is still up on the dark web.
I got it to work at http://dstormer6em3i4km.onion.link/ without using Tor browser.
It's working for me, I can't guarantee it'll work for you.
That said, now that Cloudflare, GoDaddy, ect. have taken it upon themselves to be the arbiter of what's OK and what's not OK on ''the surface web'', ask them why they think this stuff's OK by them:
youngcity.org
This is a chat site for pedophiles, both boy and girl “lovers.” The site is registration only. These types of forums generally include location information on where to find children and watch them.
world-unity.net
The homosexual pedophile wiki site BoyWiki gives this description of the site:
World-Unity.net is a new social network site (facebookish style) created for not only boylovers but also other Minor Attracted Persons and persons with “alternative sexualities”. The goal of this site is to bring the world of BL, GL, CL, diaper lover, and other alternative sexualities together in one place.
The site also allows pedophiles to arrange meetup events with one another.
virped.org
“Virtuous Pedophiles” actually has its own Wikipedia page, and was written up in the New York Times by Margo Kaplan.This site is different from the above two sites which are protected by Cloudflare, as it does not openly promote sex with prepubescent children.
Ostensibly, the site is designed to promote the idea that not all pedophiles are child molesters, and so should not be hated by society, instead viewed as mentally ill.
You can take that as you like, but it should be put in the context that the exact same arguments were made about homosexuality before it was promoted as good and wholesome. Many, myself included, view this attempt to promote acceptance of pedophiles as victims of a mental illness rather than dangerous, diseased individuals, is a step on the road to normalizing the behavior.
I am absolutely certain that you could find more pedophile advocacy sites protected by Cloudflare if you looked, but it isn’t really necessary. The point is proven by two sites which support sex with children and one which claims that pedophiles are victims who should be accepted by society as long as they don’t touch children: Cloudflare, while viewing the Daily Stormer as so morally evil as to not deserve to be on the internet, views pedophile advocacy as morally acceptable.

From https://dstormer6em3i4km.onion.link/cloudflare-explicitly-condoning-young-city-pedophile-chat-and-other-pedophile-havens/

Blogger Cail Corishev August 23, 2017 3:25 PM  

How would Mr. Prince react if the data carriers he use decide that Cloudflare has broken their TOS, therefore they won't provide their service to Cloudflare anymore?

Something like that may have entered into his decision-making. He says hackers were asking Cloudflare to turn off Daily Stormer's defenses. That's also a threat to come after Clouflare directly if they don't, and one way they could do that is by putting the same pressure on Cloudflare's upstream providers. (Personally, I don't take the "hackers" threat seriously; a place like Cloudflare should have no reason to fear them. If it does, they have bigger problems than Nazi web sites.)

Let's say I host web sites. Should I contact Anglin and offer my services? Better not, unless I can be sure none of my hosting, bandwidth, routing, or domain name service providers will get weak in the knees.

It's like being unable to buy a steak at the store and assume that it's not poisoned unless you first check with the farmer, the butcher, and all the truck drivers who delivered it. That's the mess these morons are creating for themselves and the rest of us.

Anonymous Orville August 23, 2017 3:27 PM  

@48 We're well beyond simple disagreements of the sort Voltaire had in mind. What we have today is a set of people who habitually lie in order to gain popular support for enslaving us.

Illustrated easily by watching last nights Trump speech and then reading Yahoo, CNN, ABC, etc. today. Absolute fucking liars.

And did you notice Trump nearly fomented a riot by focusing the crowd on the MSM at the back of the auditorium. I was watching on a Trump friendly youtube channel so I got an up close picture of the anger and hatred the crowd was showing the MSM. No wonder Don Lemon was unhinged.

Blogger DonReynolds August 23, 2017 3:28 PM  

@59 Robert
"Am I silly to be worried about the government cutting off my Social Security and even state pension payments if I express sentiments the government, ruled by liberals, find unacceptable?
The immediate response (but, but, they can't do that!!) I don't find reassuring."

Yes, Robert....you are silly to fret about such a possibility. It will never happen, not to you or me or anyone else.

Had Hillary or Bernie been elected president and the rad libs taken over the Executive Branch of the Federal government, they would definitely not cut off your Social Security payments.

Of course, while you are staying in the Re-Education Camp to get your mind right, those payments would be made to the Camp Commandant to pay for your blanket and rice and water. Use of the soap also costs money, as well as postage on all those letters to family trying to get you out. If it is run like a Residential Care Facility, they will keep all your Social Security but $25 bucks a month. You will need that money to pay for boot polish and laundry and haircuts and razor blades at the camp exchange. You would not want to fail inspection.....would you?

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 23, 2017 3:30 PM  

Just a quick note:

Cloudflare is not a host; they do not host websites. They are an authoritative DNS service/reverse proxy.

You change your nameservers to Cloudflare's; Cloudflare then stores in cache your site's static resources like JavaScript, CSS, images, etc; Cloudflare then serves those assets from their PoPs (i.e. Points of Presence) instead of the request going to your origin server, much like a Content Delivery Network.

I bring this up primarily to highlight the fact that Cloudflare is in the ethical 'sweet spot' as concerns content; they are literally doing nothing other than routing traffic and doing so faster and safer than it would otherwise be routed thereby improving end user experience.

As such, @23 wins the thread.

Blogger tz August 23, 2017 3:38 PM  

@42 No.
It is not a specific threat of violence.
Poisons are documented in books, or I think you could figure out something on Wikipedia on what plant contains it and general extraction and refining things and they are in books.
If you extend what you are asking, "Doesn't the paper and ink provider have a duty to read what is being printed and not sell?".
Or even try to point fault at wikipedia.

If there is a conversation about "what is the best way I can kill my wife and get away with it" going into specifics and soliciting assassins or something, it might be different, but it can't be at all speculative.

Agatha Christie showed how to do lots of murders. Should her books be banned too?

Blogger YIH August 23, 2017 3:43 PM  

Chemist wrote:I have a legal question. Purely hypothetical

If I make a super detailed post about "How to make ricin" and post it online, doesn't my internet provider has the obligation to take it down and even inform the police about it? After all, it is something you can use to kill people.

Not a lawyer, but IIRC, you can disclose the recipe for Ricin (or meth, or whatever) but you have to include the disclaimer ''This is for informational purposes only. Use of this information is solely at the discretion of the reader, We accept no responsibility for actions of the reader''
https://infogalactic.com/info/The_Anarchist_Cookbook

Blogger Quilp August 23, 2017 3:47 PM  

Excellent response, as always.
OT but fantastic meme of the day, and the 911 emergency meme on the original tweet was great too. Keep em coming.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 23, 2017 4:06 PM  

Voxxie, the Daily Stormer is "obnoxious", you are getting old.

Blogger peppermint88 August 23, 2017 4:10 PM  

A security company that lets its clients be attacked isn't a security company. Cloudflare is dead.

More importantly, DNS can no longer be trusted, and needs a censor-proof replacement.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 23, 2017 4:13 PM  

@17 Map,
Does AT&T have an NSA-owned room at its switching centers, and do the main communications carriers get PAID when they perform under direction of a National Security Letter?

If you said, YES!, you win a prize. Payments to such firms by Uncle Sammy are not an insignificant part of their revenue stream, as I read it.

Once you begin sleeping with the devil, don't be surprised to wake up with his parts in places you didn't they they'd fit. The margin between what is public and what is private in the USA is so thin, an electron microscope might be needed to find it.

Privacy and reach (via communications) are very real economic goods. They have a price. Nothing worthwhile is free, and what is free is worth what it cost.

I'm not shocked that so-called private firms are playing the censorship game. I'm shocked that anyone believed censorship was not pervasive and very much a part of the political economy.

What are y'all, a bunch of libertarians or something? (grin)

Anonymous JAG August 23, 2017 4:16 PM  

Robert wrote:Am I silly to be worried about the government cutting off my Social Security and even state pension payments if I express sentiments the government, ruled by liberals, find unacceptable?

The immediate response (but, but, they can't do that!!) I don't find reassuring.


Absolutely be worried. Remember, no matter how underhanded and conniving you imagine a leftist to be, you will always fall short of reality. There is no limit to what lows they will stoop.

I believe this is also behind the push for a cashless society. SJW converged banking companies could disappear your accounts for wrongthink. You could get it back, but not before a lot of hassle.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 23, 2017 4:16 PM  

@66, that's like reading all the addicts exchange info on how to get high, where they abbreviated "Someone Who Isn't Me" such that my first time reading it, all I could think was, Who the F is SWIM?

(I was selling a C2 opioid-like drug and was curious if the sky brigade liked it; they didn't.)

Blogger dc.sunsets August 23, 2017 4:19 PM  

@71 I read recently that one of the Big Moneycenter Banks was pressed to stop processing donations to "objectionable" (AKA on $PLC list) organizations. The response was blunt.

Not. Our. Money.

Should that begin to change, no way on EARTH the war doesn't go hot. People will consent to a lot, but I think that's akin to "parent, you don't have a choice, your son is going to do overnights with gay scout leaders who are on the sex offender list."

Blogger dc.sunsets August 23, 2017 4:21 PM  

As others note, this clown is trying to be on both sides of a war simultaneously, AKA being a little bit pregnant.

As a businessman, what a phenomenal moron.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 4:22 PM  

It's an obvious thing to point out, but the SJW's don't have a problem with anything ISIS or other similar groups put up on the web, including vids of executions.

Dutch concert in Rotterdam canceled because a van containing gas bottles was parked near the venue. The Dutch police were apparently tipped off by the Spanish government.

Real people were really killed real dead on Las Ramblas just a few days back in Barcelona, and more of the same was planned for Rotterdam tonight. But the SJW's don't care, so long as there's a statue of a white person standing in North America they will continue to ragehate on that. Because it's a safe hate.

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 23, 2017 4:25 PM  

YIH wrote:ask them why they think this stuff's OK by them

Yep, they need to be pounded with this kind of query. He has sown the wind and should be made to reap the whirlwind.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 4:28 PM  

@73 dc.sunsets
People will consent to a lot, but I think that's akin to "parent, you don't have a choice, your son is going to do overnights with gay scout leaders who are on the sex offender list."

Well, maybe. Transgender reveal in kindergarten class leaves parents feeling "betrayed", but it's California so I guess no one else should worry.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 23, 2017 4:43 PM  

It's difficult to imagine anything more degenerate than a transitioning kindergartener, but I'm sure the left will come up with something.

Anonymous BBGKB August 23, 2017 4:47 PM  

Bake the damn cake

Make sure there is a picture of Moohamad on it also.

Now you're an anti-semitic Zionist-loving anti-LBGTQEIEIO pro-pedophile hater.

OMG this isn't little Matty Prince is it? Zionists put up swastikas to scare jews into going to Israel, Anderson Cooper likes going to moslem nations for their anti-LBGTQEIEIO pro-pedophile stance.

Those with all the money in the world want to debauch the scarcity value of American citizenship in order to get even richer

That assumes they didn't make their riches by (((strip-mining))) the US

Subject line: Make Ricin Fast!

Secrete recipe fro Ungle Benji's Minute Ricin

I believe this is also behind the push for a cashless society. SJW converged banking companies could disappear your accounts for wrongthink.

Total monitoring of transactions, they could do a Cyprus 25% bank account cut whenever they like.

Anonymous Grayman August 23, 2017 4:53 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:It's difficult to imagine anything more degenerate than a transitioning kindergartener, but I'm sure the left will come up with something.

That is more depraved then a substantial portion of the experiments Josef Mengele did in WWII

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 23, 2017 5:00 PM  

Sillon Bono wrote:Andrew Anglin and the rest of the nazi-larpers should own their shit and stop the bullshit that public figures are secret nazi-larpers too
MPAI.  Anglin's satire is too deep for most (I didn't see his supposed "support" for the EU but I'm sure that was satire too).  Thing is, he's deep into the JQ which automatically makes you a Nazi.  He decided to own it.  It's the only thing he COULD do.  And he's not larping; he doesn't use that imagery or regalia outside the web.  He uses it to meme, and that's it.

Making people realize that A.H. had such broad popular support because he had a point is an inevitable side-effect of red-pilling on the JQ.  Might as well put that up front.

@26  Yup, I'm sure tort lawyers are rubbing their hands.  How many people have been hurt or killed by BLM thus far?  ISIS?  Child molestors? Every single victim and family now has license to go after any service which carried or protected their websites while denying service to DS.

That's not going to come cheap.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 23, 2017 5:32 PM  

Total monitoring of transactions, they could do a Cyprus 25% bank account cut whenever they like.

Inevitable anyway. South Park got this one right years ago. The whole system is geared to ONLY growing credit. Now that credit growth is stalling (b/c unlike counterfeiting, it carries the burden of repayment to borrow-to-spend), the banking system teeters on the brink of insolvency.

Most banks hold nothing but IOU's from people (including Corporate "persons") that are tapped out and running as fast as they can on the treadmill. When a few stumbled in 2006 it "almost caused the world to end" in 2008. As you know, it's an order of magnitude worse now.

Sooner or later, bank deposits will be...."aaaaaaand they're gone."

I've maintained all along, the scapegoat for the Great Depression was "low prices" (which FDR's brain trust tried to "cure" by making everyone poorer.) This time it will be blamed on a "shortage of money." I see no other path.

How long before even the kitchen sink is pawned in order to maintain this high-living-standards-without-jobs/production fiction?

Blogger dc.sunsets August 23, 2017 5:40 PM  

@77 coming soon: Crimethink punished by removal of the offending neocortex. After all, the child's genitals offend "xer" identity.

As Grayman implicitly asks, "Would Joseph Mengele's heinous experiments now be celebrated if the child-victims' parents consented to them?"

This has gone too far. We cannot share a polity with these people. I mean that sincerely. Let them sail away from us in their insane asylum, for as I've stated elsewhere, there is no way to mitigate the suffering of a child without enabling the dysfunction of the parent. It really doesn't take a village, if the village is the Children of the Corn.

I observe something else. Since it is thoughts that so upset leftists, and one can never know another's thoughts, their war is truly a war of all against all, for each Leftist must ultimately see every other human on Earth as a potential crime-thinker, and must thus be exterminated.

These people are mad in every traditional sense of that word.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 23, 2017 5:49 PM  

Let's just put it this way, Mr. Prince: I'm not a Nazi, but I'd never use CloudFare, knowing what I now do about their propensity towards censorship.

Blogger Daniel August 23, 2017 6:03 PM  

excelent post

Anonymous Jimmy James August 23, 2017 6:03 PM  

Thanks gab.ai for being the last place on the internet that accepts anglin. Nice to see someone has the stones.

Nothing Anglin writes is any more offensive than an eminem album. The only difference is their detractors.

Anonymous Icicle August 23, 2017 6:06 PM  

I liked how every famous person was a potential crypto-Jew on the Daily Stormer. Tesla? Jew!

South Park got this one right years ago.

They usually do. There's a reason I keep posting their clips. The world is nutty when you need a cartoon to get it right.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat August 23, 2017 6:10 PM  

That is a very good take from Sailer

Anonymous Helo Meme August 23, 2017 6:25 PM  

"I would encourage you to invite the site back to Cloudfare, while at the same time making a public statement that Cloudflare will no longer thought-police Internet content and will not deny its services to any site that is in compliance with the law."

All the while, Vox Day polices content in his comments.

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y

Blogger comreich August 23, 2017 6:39 PM  

@89
must. not. touch. the. dog. poop.

Blogger Kristophr August 23, 2017 6:47 PM  

Helo Meme wrote:"I would encourage you to invite the site back to Cloudfare, while at the same time making a public statement that Cloudflare will no longer thought-police Internet content and will not deny its services to any site that is in compliance with the law."

All the while, Vox Day polices content in his comments.

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y


Let me help you with your spelling, troll-tard:

P-R-I-V-A-T-E P-R-O-P-E-R-T-Y

Vox's website, Vox's rules. Vox supports your right to create your own website, and be a fucking retard there. He does not have to support your right to be a fucking retard on his own website.

Blogger VD August 23, 2017 6:51 PM  

All the while, Vox Day polices content in his comments.

This blog is not, and does not claim to be, an integral part of the core Internet infrastructure. And, unlike Cloudflare, I do not claim to not police content. Quite to the contrary, I make it very clear that I do.

Blogger SirHamster August 23, 2017 6:52 PM  

Kristophr wrote:Vox's website, Vox's rules. Vox supports your right to create your own website, and be a fucking retard there. He does not have to support your right to be a fucking retard on his own website.

Don't forget that Vox is not selling a public commenting service.

Cloudflare, on the other hand, is selling a service of reliable hosting.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 6:53 PM  

Just for dc.sunsets.

Connecticut drowning in debt, faces budget crunch

State lawmakers must agree on a biennial budget soon or else Governor Dannel Malloy's executive order to slash state aid to municipalities and eliminate school funding for some districts will go into effect in October. The state faces a $3.5 billion deficit over the next two years.

Among the wealthiest in the United States, Connecticut has been strained by already high taxes, outmigration, falling revenues and $50 billion of unfunded pension liabilities.

Blogger VD August 23, 2017 7:00 PM  

Voxxie, the Daily Stormer is "obnoxious", you are getting old.

Without question. But that doesn't change the fact that "nyuk nyuk we Nazis fam" is totally fucking stupid, and threatening to demonstrate at a dead woman's funeral is fucking obnoxious.

If you will note, I have never, ever, said a single positive word about either Daily Stormer or Andrew Anglin. Because they're both a) obnoxious and b) stupid. And I don't tolerate either.

MPAI. Anglin's satire is too deep for most (I didn't see his supposed "support" for the EU but I'm sure that was satire too).

There is nothing "deep" about it. There is literally a "hurr hurr" meme that is every bit as deep as his entire routine. I have no doubt it holds more appeal to 90 to 105 IQ whites than VP does. That's fine. But I have no more liking for it than I do for "Married With Children", "the Simpsons", or whatever the current equivalent might be.

Blogger VD August 23, 2017 7:01 PM  

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y

Do I refuse to sell books to Nazis? Or to anyone? If not, then you have no case.

Blogger Johnny August 23, 2017 7:27 PM  

>>SJW converged banking companies could disappear your accounts for wrongthink.

No need for the bank to do it, the IRS has the power and uses it.

Blogger Johnny August 23, 2017 7:32 PM  

Robert wrote:Am I silly to be worried about the government cutting off my Social Security

They won't do it because it would not save all that much money and would upset the other old geezers in a way that would not be helpful.

A more likely method is inflation. When the USSR fell apart, inflation took away something like 90 to 99 percent of some pensions. Guys who at great personal sacrifice and risk fought off the Nazi's, essentially lost their old age pensions. Surviving the Nazis, I wonder how many of them died from environmental stress in their old age F'in governments.

Anonymous Noah Baudie August 23, 2017 7:33 PM  

@70:

A now-deceased acquaintance of mine told me that he worked for much of the 1980s in Northern Virginia for a consulting firm that he suspects but cannot prove was a cutout to one or another of the US government's many spook shops.

His job was to call up telephone companies under assorted false pretenses, some scripted, some ad-libbed (he got the job by being a pretty good amateur actor who also knew enough about 70s-80s telecom tech to be able to talk shop with highly placed tech types at AT&T, back when they were The Phone Company, and pretend to be one of them without being caught out), and set up backdoor remote access to their systems, theoretically for diagnostic and testing purposes. He would then give the passwords and related account information to his bosses, who would pat him on the back and give him another set of numbers to call.

He suspected the real purpose was to give The Man access to make the various telephone companies' switching systems their plaything whenever and wherever it is convenient for them, whether to use them as some kind of tertiary backup emergency comms system in the event of nuclear war, or to be able to shut down nationwide communications in the event of what historians would later euphemistically call "civil disorder."

When the Berlin Wall came down he was laid off with no explanation and escorted out of the building, and that was the end of that.

I am not psychic, however he did not strike me as a bullshitter.

So, never mind the rumored "Internet kill switch." Some rainy morning someone in Foggy Bottom just might decide that allowing Americans to talk to one another by any means other than face-to-face conversation is just too much trouble, and press the button that turns the nation's phone systems off at the continental trunk-line level. I will let people more knowledgeable than I speculate about whether this would make cell phones stop working also.

@87:
We've been living in The Onion since 2002. I am convinced of this.

OpenID tonsplace August 23, 2017 8:10 PM  

The moral of this story isn't free speech. Free speech is fucking stupid and part of how we got into this mess

The moral of the story is we need our own infrastructure and such and when We're back on top, no free speech for the other team, none Whites etc etc

Blogger Stephen St. Onge August 23, 2017 8:17 PM  

        I agree with 46. Krymneth and 14. Salt: claiming you support their content is a good reason for terminating.

        I'd let them come back, but require they apologize and disavow claims they support the Daily Stormer, and warn them that a repeat will mean a permanent expulsion.

Blogger Matthew August 23, 2017 8:18 PM  

Does it bother anyone else when someone else has your name?

Blogger Koanic August 23, 2017 8:23 PM  

> Who gives a quantum of a rat's shit what either of those Reichtards have to say about anything anymore?

They are both extremely high-profile in the Alt-Right. Only more so since being censored.

> They are both shameless liars.

You're right, they are. Anglin has written a post on Posobiec, calling him a rat-fucker for excessive lying, while admitting he doesn't mind genetically adaptive lying.

Blogger Matthew August 23, 2017 8:28 PM  

VD wrote:But I have no more liking for it than I do for "Married With Children", "the Simpsons", or whatever the current equivalent might be.

Remember everybody, Vox also dislikes beer and thinks it is for peasants.

Anonymous Jack August 23, 2017 8:55 PM  

@104 But he likes Kid Rock. The man is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 23, 2017 9:20 PM  

I'm not shocked that so-called private firms are playing the censorship game.

I'm not shocked, because I watched as ISPs put up no resistance to DMCA. For the most part, if they get a takedown notice on official-looking letterhead, they follow it to the letter. Their attitude is, "We don't care, but we don't want to deal with lawsuits, so if you're going to bring us that kind of hassle as a customer, you're out. No hard feelings."

But if you'd asked me a couple years ago how the Left would come at us, I would have predicted that they'd do it through government like it worked with DMCA, with tighter speech restrictions by law (or judicial fiat) and then enforcing those through willing tech providers. I wouldn't have guessed the tech companies would start doing it directly without the fig leaf of government oversight.

The other thing that surprises me a little is how ham-fisted they're being about it. The normal procedure, even if what the CEO says is true about Stormer slandering Cloudflare, would be to send a cease-and-desist notice and demand a retraction, which could then lead to a full takedown if that isn't done. Everyone would see that as reasonable. But these companies aren't following their usual procedures; they're jumping straight to the kill. It's obvious that they're not just trying to disassociate themselves from these sites; they're trying to harm them as much as posisble in the process. That's how you can tell it's coming from internal SJW convergence, and not that they're bowing to external pressure out of expediency.

When you give someone 24 hours to get out (which might be in an email that isn't seen right away), that gets other other web site owners' attention, because most of them would be screwed and end up paying someone a lot of money to make that happen that fast. They're thinking, "Hey, I'm not a Nazi, but what if my weight loss site triggers some fat acceptance group and they bring a big publicity campaign against my hosting company?"

Anonymous Icicle August 23, 2017 9:21 PM  

e suspected the real purpose was to give The Man access to make the various telephone companies' switching systems their plaything whenever and wherever it is convenient for them, whether to use them as some kind of tertiary backup emergency comms system in the event of nuclear war, or to be able to shut down nationwide communications in the event of what historians would later euphemistically call "civil disorder."


I heard something similar from some people I knew at AT&T (off the record). Wikileaks can bust that one wide open.

calling him a rat-fucker for excessive lying, while admitting he doesn't mind genetically adaptive lying.

Looks like we are going to have to revisit St. Augustine.

Blogger Silly but True August 23, 2017 10:20 PM  

Oh, the irony! Even self-described misandrist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole, NK Jemisin says you have to go back:
https://twitter.com/nkjemisin/status/900004706185097216

Anonymous krymneth August 23, 2017 10:32 PM  

@Cail: My interpretation is this: The left-wing mindset is incapable of having a spendable asset without spending it. (This fits right in with the r mentality; resources are infinite and can not run out.) Having failed to win political power, they are spending everything they have on hurting their enemies. It is not that they don't care what it is costing them... it is that they have gone so Left that they are now incapable of realizing what it costs them. It is now thought crime to think that they are furiously spending all their remaining reputation for very little gain now.

It will get worse for them before they get better. They're clearly in a full-on purity-spiral, and the purity being demanded is even more fealty to the left, leaving them even less capable of realizing this.

Anonymous krymneth August 23, 2017 10:51 PM  

I would also like to point out that the tech companies are in fact immensely vulnerable and the SJWs are enormously overestimating the strength of their current position, despite the strength of the balance sheets. Google, Facebook, and Twitter's stock valuations are all based on the premise that they can grow to basically cover the entire world and then some. Or, in Twitter's case, the fact that they don't appear to be able to do so has already hammered their stock value, though if they showed serious decline it could yet take more of a beating. However, the more those companies dive deep into not only being liberal, but being Silicon Valley liberals, who hate not only everyone who ever voted Trump but would pretty quickly excommunicate probably 80% of the Democratic voters in the country if they had a chance (lots of Democratic voters who might not want 40-year-old creepy men taking a piss next to them, for example, or who consider the fact they haven't got a job or their neighborhood is drowning in "undocumented welfare consumers" more important than whether Bob can get government funding to become Bobina), the more they become companies that are not only going to be incapable of growth, but will be on track to actively shrink. Add to this that doctrinaire enforcement of Silicon Valley liberalism would also prevent these companies from expanding internationally as Silicon Valley liberalism can only be found in the United States and Western Europe, cutting off the other ~85% of the world from their future growth projections.

When Wall Street figures this out, the companies will rapidly flip from their Amazing Tech Growth Stock valuation narrative to Declining Company valuation narrative, and the decline will be swift and epic. I could very well see a 30% one-day decline on Google's stock price (probably after some earnings report that makes this clear), followed by another 20-30%+ decline in the following two weeks as the market catches up on the reasoning and realizes what has happened. I only wish I had a crystal ball as to when exactly that would happen. If Google is only to be valuated on the money it is currently making and on a diminishing income going into the future, it's still a lot of money, but it's not anything like what is currently priced into their stock; same Facebook.

Then Google and Facebook have a follow-on problem. A looooot of their compensation is in stock options and stock grants. Suddenly every stock option offered in the last 5-10 years will be worthless and the stock grants, while still perhaps valuable, will still be psychologically painful for those who have them due to the haircut they just took. All of their best employees and a lot of their solid middle-tier ones will have their golden handcuffs go up in a puff of smoke, and many of them will decide to leave the obviously sinking ship, even the ones sympathetic to the SJW cause. From there, it's hard to see what will happen; aggressive and solid leadership could pull a good company out of the result, or it could enter a total death spiral. (One interesting scenario for the death spiral is if the massive and extraordinarily complicated Google/Facebook infrastructure proves to simply be literally too complicated for the resulting company to maintain, in which case there would be no saving them.)

(The same logic, albeit writ smaller and playing out more slowly, can apply to some other industries as well, such as Hollywood.)

Or, short version, tech stocks are currently valuated on the company's ability to grow, not to purity spiral into political correctness enforcement. At some point the Street will brutally punish them for confusing the two if the companies truly go down this road. The market will likely remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent, as the old saying goes, but it will be inevitable and devastating for them if they truly double- and triple- and quadruple-down on this plan.

Blogger Lazarus August 23, 2017 10:59 PM  

Milo on similar subject material, almost at Steve Sailers position without class conciousness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSAAIMwFod0

Blogger Lazarus August 23, 2017 11:07 PM  

Jack wrote:@104 But he likes Kid Rock. The man is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.

He did not say he did not like peasants, just beer. Probably thinking of the beer in Minnesota.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 23, 2017 11:10 PM  

It is not that they don't care what it is costing them... it is that they have gone so Left that they are now incapable of realizing what it costs them.

Yes. /pol/ is running a brilliant campaign on them right now. I won't give it away here, but they already know about it, and yet they're falling right into it. They are what they are, and when you point out what they are with deadly rhetoric, they can't stop being what they are to prove you wrong. So they fall back on "correct the record," which....I think we know how well dialectic works against rhetoric.

One interesting scenario for the death spiral is if the massive and extraordinarily complicated Google/Facebook infrastructure proves to simply be literally too complicated for the resulting company to maintain,

That's quite possible. It's hard enough to maintain and develop code written by one stranger. When it's been written and refactored and patched and updated by thousands of other people, that has to be a nightmare. And the most important stuff was written by really smart people who will be the hardest to replace. By the time they realize they need to, odds are other, leaner companies will be pulling ahead of them and it'll be too late.

Blogger Lazarus August 23, 2017 11:23 PM  

Helo Meme wrote:Sniff:::::Sniff::::




Your ignorance parades itself as wisdom:


If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.

Malcolm X


Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 23, 2017 11:33 PM  

Well, I don't wanna give anything away myself but

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/768c307ecfc4b57ab23ce935e511fba60c246b21e9c324d5053de98be0a4c842.jpg

Blogger Koanic August 24, 2017 3:38 AM  

It's not as if Trump is a paragon of honesty. The public dislikes honesty coupled with intelligence, because it is corrupt.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club August 24, 2017 5:11 AM  

When Wall Street figures this out

Figure what out? They're co-conspirators, not dupes.

Blogger bosscauser August 24, 2017 6:02 AM  

Pick a side! The MSM has...

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger bosscauser August 24, 2017 6:04 AM  

I wonder how many of these companies have a far CIA contract, hmm?

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 24, 2017 7:46 AM  

Good for bitmitigate.

@4 Salt
" the Daily Stormer began claiming that we secretly supported their ideology, causing a major distraction to our team."

"Demanding cease and desist with retraction or termination would be proper, in that respect"

Mr. Prince failed to cite where exactly he felt that this claim had been made. Perhaps he merely couldn't be bothered to do so, but it's likely that he was unable to do so.

@23 Flair1239
"Mr. prince does not want an answer. He wants to two-way virtue signal."

Likely true. Though it is interesting to observe that he appears to be trying very hard to convey the impression that he made the decision on his own initiative, in the absence of any outside pressure, because of a random impulse. Trying a little too hard, perhaps.

Punishedstormer.com is up, btw.

Blogger SirGroggy August 24, 2017 10:00 AM  

Vox your point about legitimacy and the mandate of heaven in the darkstream was incredibly spot-on.

It seems it is the curse of these decadent times that folly abounds and madness and delusion run rampant among the people of the West and these internet Tsars are no exception.

They have unwittingly, at the height of this folly, given away a gem more precious than all their tribe, that is, their legitimacy to rule the internet.

If they stay on course, as it seems they will, it will be their ultimate undoing and they will be struck down for their hubris and their lust for the exercise of arbitrary power.

Blogger SirGroggy August 24, 2017 10:12 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tz August 24, 2017 11:28 AM  

Losertarians have managed to outdo the cuckservatives.
Brandon Navom was attacked by an SJW mob and fired by being listed as a speaker at the Boston FREE SPEECH rally
His response? Talk to the SJWs and join the counter-protest to the Free Speech Rally.
(Note Tom Woods was just the interviewer, and I wish there was video as his surprise at the response would be more visible).

Anonymous User August 24, 2017 11:54 AM  

The Daily Stormer isn't anything more than a modern incarnation of the old non-PC National Lampoon. It's essentially the same content right down to the happy merchant.

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot August 24, 2017 2:09 PM  

Where are the eminent domain proceedings for this public utility known as Cloudflare?

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot August 24, 2017 2:14 PM  

Attorneys, advocates, and solicitors: would you like to gain additional standing for your clients who have been harassed or shut down by Internet public utilities such as Cloudflare, Google, Twitter, and so forth?

Then start working together to draft an Internet Public Utilities Act 2018 for your country.

Blogger jdgalt August 24, 2017 6:52 PM  

I've started a petition urging Attorney General Sessions to use antitrust law to force Apple and Google to allow Gab in their app stores.

Blogger Patriotic Canadian August 29, 2017 9:32 AM  

They also support pedophilia which to me is worse

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