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Wednesday, August 16, 2017

From the Nazi's mouth

A number of historically ignorant defenders of national socialism have tried to claim that it is not a left-wing socialist ideology. This is utterly and absolutely false, and can be easily and conclusively proven to be false in a number of ways, including by reading a number of direct quotes from Mr. Hitler himself. Note, in particular, that the ultimate goal is "international socialism".
  • It is not Germany that will turn Bolshevist but Bolshevism that will become a sort of National Socialism. Besides, there is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it…. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communist always will.
  • We National Socialists wish precisely to attract all socialists, even the Communists; we wish to win them over from their international camp to the national one.
  • I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit… The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it… National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order.
  • After all, that’s exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism.
  • The Revolution we have made is not a national revolution, but a National-Socialist Revolution. We would even underline this last word, "Socialist."
  • There is a difference between the theoretical knowledge of socialism and the practical life of socialism. People are not born socialists, but must first be taught how to become them.
  • I, on the other hand, have tried for two decades to build a new socialist order in Germany, with a minimum of interference and without harming our productive capacity.
As you can see, no adherent to this ideology has any place on the Right, nor can he reasonably describe himself as being Alt-Right. I direct your attention to the very first point of the Alt-Right:
  1. The Alt Right is of the political right in both the American and the European sense of the term. Socialists are not Alt Right. Progressives are not Alt Right. Liberals are not Alt Right. Communists, Marxists, Marxians, cultural Marxists, and neocons are not Alt Right.
Being socialists, national socialists of any stripe can never legitimately claim to be Alt Right.

UPDATE: I will be debating Greg Johnson about that contention. Tara McCarthy will host. More info about when it will be broadcast tomorrow.

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249 Comments:

1 – 200 of 249 Newer› Newest»
Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 4:27 PM  

Now now, I'll hear nothing against that nice Mr. Hilter, always pays the rent on time. Mr. Bimmler is bit taciturn but he does make a fine cup of tea. I'm just a bit concerned though about these Boncentration Bamps they seem to go on about.

Anonymous Tipsy August 16, 2017 4:28 PM  

My Russian friend, Boris, also quotes Lenin: "We seek international socialism. To achieve this, we must first build a national socialism." Two peas in a pod.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 4:30 PM  

The Jeff Bezos blog reports Anti Goolag protests postponed due to "credible threats from the alt-Left".

“The Peaceful March on Google has been postponed due to credible Alt Left terrorist threats for the safety of our citizen participants,” organizers wrote on a blog post on the protest’s website.

Blogger Zaklog the Great August 16, 2017 4:31 PM  

A couple of months ago, I read The Vampire Economy by a German businessman shortly before WWII about what doing business in Nazi Germany was like. It absolutely, undeniably was socialist, and anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or a fool. And socialism kills—always, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but socialism kills.

Blogger Mike X August 16, 2017 4:32 PM  

Wanting low taxes is not a prerequisite for being right wing.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 4:33 PM  

Stop confusing people with hatefacts.

(Hatefact: (n) 1. a fact some people hate because it makes what they believe look stupid in their own eyes. 2. a term used to discredit the relevance of any fact because it undermines their prior conclusions. For related terms, see Hatescience.)

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 4:34 PM  

Can I ask, who exactly penned the 16 points of the Alt-Right?

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 4:34 PM  

Wanting low taxes is not a prerequisite for being right wing.

But not being a socialist is.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 4:34 PM  

Can I ask, who exactly penned the 16 points of the Alt-Right?

Sure, go ahead.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 4:36 PM  

International Socialism: Communism
National Socialism: Nazism
Democratic Socialism: Fabianism
Fascism: Corporatism

The first three have something in common...but I can't put my finger on it. The last two have something in common as well: They describe the sides of the base-metal coin with which we in the West are stuck at this moment.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 4:36 PM  

@7
Can I ask, who exactly penned the 16 points of the Alt-Right?

I don't like microwave popcorn. But it takes less time to prepare.

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 4:36 PM  

Alright, Who exactly penned the 16 points of the Alt-Right?

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 4:38 PM  

Alright, Who exactly penned the 16 points of the Alt-Right?

I did. Exactly. I did not do the translations.

Blogger Mastermind August 16, 2017 4:39 PM  

Vox's take on left and right is pretty much "How do you do fellow right wingers" libertarian BS. Libertarianism is in no way a measure of what is left and what is right anymore than vegetarianism is. Overwhelming majority of the public does not think in terms of liberty as a principle vs authortarianism as a principle and never will. Our value of liberty is purely practical. Economics only became heavily associated with left/right because Hitler's failure made nationalism toxic and the right was castrated from upholding most of its original values. So the defeated right latched onto economic freedom in a futile effort to rid themselves of liberal influence. So far they seem to have failed to the exact same extent as the alt-reich has failed in rehabilitating Hitler. So it's amusing for me to see one group of failures try to brownbeat another group of failures about failed methods and tactics.

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 4:41 PM  

Thank you for the clarification, VD.

Blogger tz August 16, 2017 4:42 PM  

First, half-OT, SJWs always project - I didn't realize it was such an irresistible compulsion.

One problem with the alt-right is it is so new it is still sorting itself out. I think many are NATIONAL-socialists, with only a few national-SOCIALISTS, but it is a dividing line. Many right-libertarians are now more ethno-nationalistic, at least the ones where reason and evidence overrules the virtue signal reflex. Even beyond that, and one of the unfortunate things about Charlottesville is that the conversation needs to continue. Christendom isn't the only faction, and we must not let the devil co-opt the righteous desires as he has done with the left (charity to the poor and sick) so as to pervert it.

The perversion of the alt-right is perhaps its main and only threat.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 4:43 PM  

Economics only became heavily associated with left/right because Hitler's failure made nationalism toxic and the right was castrated from upholding most of its original values.

The original Right was King, Church, and Nation. Anyone advocating for secular international socialism fails on all three counts.

You have no case.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 16, 2017 4:45 PM  

If you restrict yourself to criticizing socialism that's fine, there are worse ways to spend your time. But if you're going to use individualist political philosophy to undermine the institution of Christian charity just to excuse yourself from responsibility, then you and I are going to have a real problem. Don't pull that trigger.

Anonymous Tipsy August 16, 2017 4:45 PM  

By the way, the great 20th century political philosopher, Eric Voegelin, identified Nazism and Communism as gnostical mass movements, ones which sought to achieve heaven on earth (i.e., immanentize the eschaton) through the implementation of their history ending ideology.

This is completely at odds with a Christian society, whose citizens (ideally) seek heaven elsewhere, recognizing that we are mere pilgrims in this world. The Christian therefore concerns himself in becoming more holy, by the action of grace and through the love of God and neighbor, to make him fit for eternal life with God. He knows, deep down, due to our wounded nature (original sin), that any attempt for perfect society on earth is doomed to failure, particularly if it is based on Godless ideals.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 4:46 PM  

My issue with all this is that to me the more important divide is between nationalism and globalism. If there are capitalist, socialist, or communist nationalists then they should all be able to unite under some movement to fight globalism where globalism is defined as the movement to mix the races and homogenize the cultures of the world. So if the alt-right is not that movement then maybe the alt-right doesn't really represent what I care about. To me it is pointless to be fighting over the type of economic system your nation is going to have when everything worth loving about your nation is being otherwise destroyed. And no "muh freedum" and "muh capitalism" isn't the thing about one's nation that is worth your love even if it is what the idiot propagandists constantly crow about.

Blogger tz August 16, 2017 4:48 PM  

On the low tax thing, in a homogeneous society, most people realize they spend the same amount on the same things so those who are in need where it would be provided by charity, direct taxation, even at moderate levels is merely a substitute.
In heterogeneous societies, the moochers care nothing but want to live off the subsidies, the looters have them as a constituency, and the rest who are otherwise charitable eventually resent the moochers.
A little socialism in a uniform, high-trust society works, it would happen via the church if not the state. Any socialism in a heterogeneous or low-trust society will end up as Venezuela or Zimbabwe.

Anonymous Ck August 16, 2017 4:54 PM  

For those who need a picture since the word socialist doesn't spell it out well enough:

Commies, Nazis, Democrats, Neocons CENTER

CENTER Conservatives----------------Alt Right.


OT: "What is Antifa" is the number one Google search when you type in "What". Thanks, Mr. President!

Blogger Ransom Smith August 16, 2017 4:55 PM  

Utter morons.

I'll call my grandmother and great uncle and ask how fun Nazi Germany was. With the food shortages and drafts and Hitler youth.

I want to beat these retards until they're as red as the flag they wave.

Blogger Rabbi B August 16, 2017 4:56 PM  

VD wrote:Can I ask, who exactly penned the 16 points of the Alt-Right?

Sure, go ahead.


lulz ...

Blogger Mastermind August 16, 2017 5:01 PM  

[b]The original Right was King, Church, and Nation. Anyone advocating for secular international socialism fails on all three counts.

You have no case.[/b]

Nearly all socialist countries to date have ended up with de facto kings.

That's one solid count.

Hitler's public views and actions were pro-Christianity and anti-secular, albeit heretical and subjugated to his own power. Some individuals have claimed he trash talked Christianity in private, but those testimonies are largely self serving and unreliable. Either way, National Socialism survived just fine as a quasi-religious ideology, so even if Hitler hated religion in private it makes no difference to an aspiring national socialist. I'll give only half a count to this point out of charity.

Hitler's idea of "international socialism" was other countries subjugated to his own nation, not multicultural globalism.

That's two solid counts and a half.

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:02 PM  

Well...that's a bit pedantic. Today, when a person is accused of being a Nazi, they aren't talking about their economic views. The are accusing the person of being a virulent antisemite and bigot.

So yeah...the Alt Right and Nazis are true bedfellows in today's rhetorical marketplace.

Claiming otherwise is sophestry and not a little stupid.

Blogger Jeff Wood August 16, 2017 5:03 PM  

Many, many years ago, I had an interesting chat with a former British officer, who had interviewed/interrogated a number of Nazis in 1945/46.

My friend cited a German WW1 veteran who had fought with the FrieKorps after the War, later joining the Nazi Party.

The German guy had taken part in, and organised, street battles with the Communists, in Berlin if memory serves.

One of the tactics was to kidnap a commie, take him to a cellar, and appeal to his conscience. After the bruises had healed, and the Nazi programme explained to him, the communist would be invited to apply for membership of the Nazi Party.

According to the old battler, a majority of Leftists signed on the dotted, and became faithful Nazis.

More recently I was told that after WW2, Fascists here in Italy were welcomed into the Communist Party as well-disciplined comrades, but I cannot claim a witness to that story.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 5:03 PM  

A little socialism in a uniform, high-trust society works, it would happen via the church if not the state.

Welfare via the State is what makes the -ism. A 'Socialist Church' is word salad.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 5:04 PM  

Dialectically this makes sense...but the enemy has the upper hand rhetorically - I get this sense from speaking to the normal folks. This includes my own family and Christians who are generally of the right leaning libertarian/moderate stock. Alt-Right has been been made synonymous with racism and Nazi.

How do we win the term back or is time to abandon it and make a new term?

Blogger Nick S August 16, 2017 5:05 PM  

Well done, Vox!

This article from August 2011 seems particularly relevant today given all the aspersions being hurled at Trump claiming he was making false equivalencies.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 5:06 PM  

@20 have you seen the Unicorn that is any kind of nationalism you propose, that actually fought against this version of globalism? What part of NOT LEFT is unclear? Nationalism is not RIGHT if it's still left (ex: National Socialism or Corporatism.) As VD notes the RIGHT was KING & Country (synonymous, at one time.)
@21 you're confusing socialism (state) with charity (NOT state.) State "charity" is compulsory. Anyone with an IQ above 80 should know that "charity" isn't charity if it's compulsory. Charity is BY DEFINITION voluntary, and whatever level the state subsumes, it is damn straight NOT voluntary.

Definitions matter if we're to actually converse.

Anonymous VFM #7916 August 16, 2017 5:06 PM  

@26

Wake me up when the Alt-Left begins attacking muslims due to the criteria you describe.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 5:09 PM  

Nearly all socialist countries to date have ended up with de facto kings.


You do grasp that what makes a king is hereditary succession, right? I.e., that the opportunity to rule is not in any way open to all comers. Ruling monarchies were essentially eliminated by Wilson's War. By your definition, the CIA is in all likelihood a monarchy.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 16, 2017 5:09 PM  

Nice

Blogger Jeff Wood August 16, 2017 5:10 PM  

That would be "Freikorps". And me such a Grammar Nazi too..

Anonymous Jordi August 16, 2017 5:11 PM  

I don't identify as Marxian . I am alt-Right

Yet I would be happy to read a little about how "Marxian" and "alt-Right" are incompatible

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 5:13 PM  

Halo wrote:Well...that's a bit pedantic. Today, when a person is accused of being a Nazi, they aren't talking about their economic views. The are accusing the person of being a virulent antisemite and bigot.

So yeah...the Alt Right and Nazis are true bedfellows in today's rhetorical marketplace.

Claiming otherwise is sophestry and not a little stupid.


So I'm a Nazi if I would rather not have neighbors who pound the air with 130 db rap music at midnight?

You think the lowest common factor should rule? I had a (white) neighbor like that once. Cops had to break us up a couple of times. That's the world you think we want? Go F Yourself and the Horse you Rode In On.

Sophistry indeed. Clown.

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III August 16, 2017 5:14 PM  

Speaking of playing dress-up, some Alt-Left "women" showed up to that chicks funeral with matching helmets, shields, and bats. They seem to have taken weev's troll, seriously.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/antifa-protesters-crash-heather-heyers-funeral/?utm_source=site-share

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 5:17 PM  

Halo is unfortunately right. The Neo nazis disqualify themselves not on marginal tax rate policy but for outlandish street theater

Anonymous Aeoli Pera August 16, 2017 5:17 PM  

dc.sunsets,

https://aeolipera.wordpress.com/2016/10/29/culture-war-part-1/

You are failing to grasp how outclassed you are. Why persist?

Anonymous Icicle August 16, 2017 5:20 PM  

Look, all you have to do is look at the words nationalism and socialism. If you take just the -alism, they can be transposed and are identical.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 16, 2017 5:21 PM  

Mastermind wrote:Nearly all socialist countries to date have ended up with de facto kings.

That's one solid count.

Hitler's public views and actions were pro-Christianity and anti-secular, albeit heretical and subjugated to his own power. Some individuals have claimed he trash talked Christianity in private, but those testimonies are largely self serving and unreliable. Either way, National Socialism survived just fine as a quasi-religious ideology, so even if Hitler hated religion in private it makes no difference to an aspiring national socialist. I'll give only half a count to this point out of charity.

Hitler's idea of "international socialism" was other countries subjugated to his own nation, not multicultural globalism.

That's two solid counts and a half.

No, dictators are not kings. Kings are both legitimate and limited.
No, Hitler was Imperialist, not Nationalist.
And no, Hitler was objectively anti-Christian.
That's 0 of 3.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 5:21 PM  

@Halo, I hear it's bigotry now to object to importing people who think it's normal to copulate with donkeys.
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2017/08/225797/15-teenagers-treated-for-rabies-after-engaging-in-bestiality-with-donkey/

Damn Nazis, who wish to stop such people from emigrating to the USA. Man, I can't stand those bigots who want to stop unaccompanied 19 year-old MS-13 members from emigrating to the USA.

Same with TB. It's BIGOTRY to try to stop people carrying one of the most horrifying diseases to ever afflict humanity from emigrating to the USA. Man, we have to BURN those Nazi bigots.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/11/43-percent-latent-tb-rates-among-sub-saharan-refugees-san-diego-county-interviewed-jobs-starbucks/

Makes me want to go right out and get a half-calf mocha latte made by a barista who's coughing a little.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 5:24 PM  

@40, because I encountered people like you in Colloquy Society, only they actually had the test results to prove it.

I believe it was VD who pointed out that at a 20+ point difference in effective IQ, the lower mistakes the higher for stupidity. (wink)

Wake me when you get to the altitude at which I'm cruising.

Blogger Peter Jackson August 16, 2017 5:24 PM  

Who the hell cares what the political philosophy of the five Nazis in the United States is? If they want to march, let them march alone; the rest of us will ignore them. They should not be allowed to tag along in other marches, left, right, or center.

Blogger Wanderer August 16, 2017 5:27 PM  

If Nazis being leftists isn't a good enough reason for the LARPer and cosplayer fags to abandon Nazism then simply remind them that Hitler's ideology also splits white people in half, pitting Western Europeans against Eastern Europeans (whom Nazi believed were subhuman apes and murdered 20 million of them).

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 5:27 PM  

I have to agree with Halo in 26 though I suspect he is on the other side.

When someone calls you a Nazi he is not talking about your economic views.

Saying "Nazi's are the real socialists" or "Socialists are the real Nazi's" is weak rhetoric in my opinion and it's a distinction not worth being made.

The fact is that we are in a racial and cultural struggle and we need to come up with better rhetoric.
What that rhetoric is, I don't know, but decrying Nazi's as the real socialist isn't it.

Anonymous Anonymous August 16, 2017 5:27 PM  

The real disagreement between Nazism and Vox's Alt-Right isn't Point 1, it is Point 4, 10, 15 and 16.

Hitler's entire program was built around invading Eastern Europe and seizing for the Germans the land inhabited by the Slavs, in the process dominating and then genociding the Slavic peoples. This is crystal clear if you read Mein Kampf.

Hitler's seeming embrace of socialism in these quotes is likely tactical, an attempt to lure German workers drunk on Marxism into the Nazi Party.

More importantly, the entire issue of socialism vs. capitalism is of minor significance compared to the moral issue of Hitler's grotesque plan to invade, dominate, and genocide several irreplaceable European nations, in defiance of all the moral teachings of the Christian religion.

The Nazis were murderers! Griping about them maybe also being socialist pickpockets makes one seem to have a poor sense of moral proportions.

Anonymous kHz August 16, 2017 5:27 PM  

'How do we win the term back or is time to abandon it and make a new term?'

Abandoning the truth for expediency's sake is a root cause of this mess we're in. Hold the line.

Besides which, as a term it has widespread recognition and yet remains a complete mystery to most. When they finally hear it defined properly, or see it defined, it'll have a lot of impact. Many will recognise the extent of the lie.

My 0.015p

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:28 PM  

"So I'm a Nazi if I would rather not have neighbors who pound the air with 130 db rap music at midnight?"

No, that makes you anti Midnight Music.

Blogger Mastermind August 16, 2017 5:30 PM  

"No, dictators are not kings. Kings are both legitimate and limited."

Wrong. The Mandate of Heaven is a Chinese idea. The Divine Right of Kings is the European standard.

"No, Hitler was Imperialist, not Nationalist."

The idea that the two are mutually exclusive is another VD invention. American style globalist imperialism is not the only form of imperialism.

"And no, Hitler was objectively anti-Christian.
That's 0 of 3."

Even if he was (dubious), Nazism was not and does not need to be.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 5:30 PM  

Boot the clowns sure, but we would be more effective if we convinced normies to go join one of the alt-left groups

All the cucks should be forced to choke on that as well.

Blogger Elizabeth August 16, 2017 5:31 PM  

tz wrote:On the low tax thing, in a homogeneous society, most people realize they spend the same amount on the same things so those who are in need where it would be provided by charity, direct taxation, even at moderate levels is merely a substitute.

In heterogeneous societies, the moochers care nothing but want to live off the subsidies, the looters have them as a constituency, and the rest who are otherwise charitable eventually resent the moochers.

A little socialism in a uniform, high-trust society works, it would happen via the church if not the state. Any socialism in a heterogeneous or low-trust society will end up as Venezuela or Zimbabwe.


Back in the latter half of the 1980s, I subscribed to The National Review and remember an observation one writer made: People in Germany didn't mind paying high taxes because they figured they were helping their cousins. Of course, back then, most people in Germany were Germans. Only a small number of Turkish guest workers.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( You are Welcome ... to go back to the hell hole you came from ) August 16, 2017 5:31 PM  

26. Halo August 16, 2017 5:02 PM
Claiming otherwise is sophestry and not a little stupid.



*golf clap*

i love how you demonstrate your assertion with the example of the assertion itself.

very elegant.



27. Jeff Wood August 16, 2017 5:03 PM
More recently I was told that after WW2, Fascists here in Italy were welcomed into the Communist Party as well-disciplined comrades



well, duh?

before Mussolini wrote the Fascist Manifesto, he was upper tier leadership in the Italian Communist Party ( ICP before ICP started wondering about magnets ).

it's where they get their economic policies.

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:31 PM  

"Halo is unfortunately right. The Neo nazis disqualify themselves not on marginal tax rate policy but for outlandish street theater"

Yes. I'm right. But in the strictest sense there are no Neo Nazis. However, in today's world, "Nazi" is merely a synonym for anti-semite, bigot, Alt Rightist. You may not like that rhetorical tool, but you can't argue over what the "Nazi" epithet means today.

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:36 PM  

"@Halo, I hear it's bigotry now to object to importing people who think it's normal to copulate with donkeys."

What is it with the Alt Right. When they don't think anyone is looking they are happy to call all Jews nasty names. When no one is looking they make the case that a person is bad because their skin isn't white. But when people start to look the Alt Right starts talking about economics.

I mean, look at the this post. Vox Day is telling us that the "nazi" label isn't fair today because German National Socialism didn't embrace Austrian economics. Talk about beside the point.

If you want to rid the country of all but white people, then say so. Don't hide behind semantics and economics.

Turns out when the shit hits the fan, the Alt Right is a bunch of rhetorical cowards.

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 5:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau August 16, 2017 5:40 PM  

Most of the ACTION/Occupy/Antifa Neo Communists groups are more AntiSemitic than the Alt retard Kluckservatives.

Blogger Stilicho August 16, 2017 5:40 PM  

Those Hitler quotes sound like an alt left manifesto.

Losers and free-loaders of the world unite!

Blogger Mastermind August 16, 2017 5:41 PM  

"nazis are far left" is the rhetorical equivalent of "Dems are the real racists!", a failed tactic the right has been trying to pull for ages with little effect. It's easy (trival even) to argue against nazism without playing silly word games that won't persuade not just a single nazi but won't persuade normies either.

The only reaction to the Nazis from the right should be to pretend they don't exist as much as possible and when the left tries to hoist them on the rest of us, uniformly make liberal use of "tu quoque" rhetoric. But the right doesn't have the balls, discipline, or sense to pull this off. It's why Trump was left with open flanks when he tried it. The cuckservative politicians, the entire alt lite and most of the non-nazi alt right were tripping over each other to abandon their posts and wave the white flag. Absolutely terrible performance. Charlottesville was Hiroshima for the right.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 5:42 PM  

@56 I'm not talking about economics. I want homogeneous countries and a diverse world, not a homogeneous world and diversified countries. It is the liberal side that always avoids the argument and immediately hides behind rhetorical accusations of "Nazi" every time there is a debate.

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 5:42 PM  

I think it's kind of funny, the whole debate over people LARPing as "NAZI's" (A slanderous term). When Hitler himself felt "the profoundest disgust at their miserable play-acting."

IN Context:
"Besides, only a fragment of all these people come into the new movement to serve it, but in most
cases, under its protection or through the possibilities it offers, to warm over their old cabbage
They do not want to benefit the idea of the new doctrine, they only expect it to give them a
chance to make humanity miserable with their own ideas. For what kind of ideas they often are,
it is hard to tell.
The characteristic thing about these people is that they rave about old Germanic heroism, about
dim prehistory, stone axes spear and shield, but in reality are the greatest cowards that can be
imagined. For the same people who brandish scholarly imitations of old German tin swords, and
wear a dressed bearskin with bull's horns over their bearded heads, preach for the present
nothing but struggle with spiritual weapons, and run away as fast as they can from every
Communist blackjack. Posterity will have little occasion to glorify their own heroic existence in
a new epic.
I came to know these people too well not to feel the profoundest disgust at their miserable play-
acting. But they make a ridiculous impression on the broad masses, and the Jew has every reason
to spare these folkish comedians, even to prefer them to the true fighters for a coming German
state. With all this, these people are boundlessly conceited; despite all the proofs of their
complete incompetence, they daim to know everything better and become a real plague for all
straightforward and honest fighters to whom heroism seems worth honoring, not only in the past,
but who also endeavor to give posterity a similar picture by their own actions."

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros August 16, 2017 5:42 PM  

"What is it with the Alt Right. When they don't think anyone is looking they are happy to call all Jews nasty names. When no one is looking they make the case that a person is bad because their skin isn't white. But when people start to look the Alt Right starts talking about economics."

Did Vox Day call all Jews nasty names? Did Vox Day make the case that a person is bad because their skin is not white? Is anybody here stupid enough to miss your blatant equivocation?

So much of Leftist trolling idiocy is based on subtly shifting back and forth between multiple definitions of the same word or phrase.

Some of them are dumb enough to believe it. The rest are dumb enough to think they can keep getting away with it.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 5:43 PM  

@56 Halo
If you want to rid the country of all but white people, then say so. Don't hide behind semantics and economics.


If you want to genocide white people, just say so. Don't hide behind your diseased donkey from Morocco.

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:43 PM  

"Most of the ACTION/Occupy/Antifa Neo Communists groups are more AntiSemitic than the Alt retard Kluckservatives."

No they aren't. That's absurd. It's not the Left saying, "They have to go back". It's not the left suggesting all "kikes" have it out for white people. That's all yours.

Again, either own up to your anti-semitism or find some new rhetorical dog whistles.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 5:44 PM  

"Abandoning the truth for expediency's sake is a root cause of this mess we're in. Hold the line."

I never said anything about abandoning the truth or the line - I'm speaking of the term Alt-Right. If I speak with a normal person who only knows of the Alt-Right in terms of Richard Spencer and Nazis, I'm fighting an up hill battle to change their minds and I have to figure out ways to fly under the radar - the term has been rhetorically neutered by the media and the other thought leaders in America (I speak of Christians and other "right" wing thought leader as well as the MSM and other leftists).

Call it demoralizing or what you will, but this is what it has become.

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:45 PM  

"@56 I'm not talking about economics. I want homogeneous countries and a diverse world, not a homogeneous world and diversified countries. It is the liberal side that always avoids the argument and immediately hides behind rhetorical accusations of "Nazi" every time there is a debate."

I'm not all that concerned with what you want. I'm only making the point that denying the "Nazi" title by claiming your economics are different than the original Nazis is a bit stupid.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 5:45 PM  

If you want to rid the country of all but white people, then say so. Don't hide behind semantics and economics.


I don't want to rid the nation (or anywhere) of anyone. What's wrong with you. I want to be free to associate, or not associate, with people. And yes, I don't want to pay taxes or anything else to import people into commons I inhabit.

You think that's bigoted? Seriously, you need a new playbook. The old one has lost its mojo.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 5:45 PM  

We got a trillion dollar hate machine breathing down are necks, yeah duress

Most people here are conservative intellectuals, they have spent their lives thinking like they are cast extras in Plato's new production and under duress they go back to what they know best.

But there will be the day when they reach for disqualifying and Discrediting our enemies instead

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros August 16, 2017 5:47 PM  

"The cuckservative politicians, the entire alt lite and most of the non-nazi alt right were tripping over each other to abandon their posts and wave the white flag. Absolutely terrible performance. Charlottesville was Hiroshima for the right."

What EVER will Donald Trump do without the support of Mitt Romney?

It is a decent sounding board for which Alt-Lite figures have more attachment to reason than to the Call of the Cuck.

Paul Joseph Watson‏Verified account @PrisonPlanet · 8h8 hours ago
"The establishment is clearly desperate to hide the violence of the alt-left. NEVER stop talking about it."

Good man.

Blogger pyrrhus August 16, 2017 5:47 PM  

As Mussolini said "All for the State. Nothing outside the State."
Nazism is just Communism with a slightly more favorable attitude toward Big Business......

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 5:51 PM  

"What EVER will Donald Trump do without the support of Mitt Romney?"

Pffft! Ha!

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 5:51 PM  

@67 If that is your only point, the I agree. But don't say that our side always deflects the "Nazi" accusation to economics. The fact is that that "Nazi" is a rhetorical nuclear bomb that the anti-whites always drop at the hint of nationalist sentiment. If any side is cowardly or hiding it is the side that immediately drops the "Nazi" bomb.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 5:53 PM  

@67 @73 The Nazi card is like the God card...it obliterates all argument and closes any further discussion...

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 5:56 PM  

Out of Nod wrote:@67 @73 The Nazi card is like the God card...it obliterates all argument and closes any further discussion...

The NAZI of the gaps argument? "Can't answer that? Must be NAZIs!"

Blogger Stilicho August 16, 2017 5:57 PM  

@pyrrhus no, the difference is that communists put their own commisars in charge of big business while the nazis invited the owners into the party and made them commisars.

Blogger AOL-Reader August 16, 2017 5:58 PM  

There were leftist elements in National Socialism, but its was more right than left.

Why? Because in the hierarchy of ideological priorities, the most important core value as the 'Aryan' Tribe. Socialized medicine was NOT the highest value among Nazis. It was ideology of racial identity and unity. Thus, it was more right than left.

Just because National Socialism had some leftist elements doesn't make it a 'leftist' ideology.

Same is true of Soviet Communism. Stalin brought back high culture and classical music. He favored traditionalist aesthetics to experimental or avant-garde ones. And Soviets promoted some degree of Russian nationalism. And even though communists eradicated certain aspects of the past, they also restored respect for classic literature and culture. So, does that mean USSR was 'conservative' or 'rightist'? No, it had some rightist elements but its core ideology was about class egalitarianism, therefore, it was essentially leftist.

Anonymous Halo August 16, 2017 5:58 PM  

"Did Vox Day call all Jews nasty names?"

On numerous occasions Vox Day and those in his comment section have broad brushed jews and lumped them all together

"The Jews in Europe are doomed because they spent the last 70 years undermining European nationalism and supporting the transformation of European population demographics."

"But why should the United States not have been any more unwilling to take Jews in than the Jews are to take in Africans?"

"If the Jews in America do not wish to see America follow Europe's lead in this regard, they are going to have to do a complete 180 on immigration, do it fast, and do it hard."

"Neither the various Asian identity groups nor Jews are actually on the side of Whites."

"Jews are no longer welcome among the political elite on the Left or the Right because both sides now realize that their primary motivation, "is it good for the Jews?", is no longer of any benefit to the objectives of either the Left or the Right."

Blogger FALPhil August 16, 2017 5:59 PM  

@21 A little socialism in a uniform, high-trust society works, it would happen via the church if not the state. Any socialism in a heterogeneous or low-trust society will end up as Venezuela or Zimbabwe.

You could have left socialism completely out of that statement and still have had a true statement.

Anonymous James Parliament August 16, 2017 6:00 PM  

Just when I thought the popcorn joke was played out.

Anonymous Gingas August 16, 2017 6:01 PM  

"The idea of the Nazi Party is expressly that we are the German Left. Nothing is more hated by us than the national property-owner's bloc." -- Joseph Goebbels, Dec 6th, 1931 in "Der Angriff".

"My overwhelming inclination is towards the Left." -- Adolf Eichmann, in his memoirs.

"We have liquidated the Leftist class-warriors but, unfortunately, we forgot to carry the attack to the Right, That is our greatest sin of omission." -- Adolf Hitler, 24. February 1945, "Tagung der Reichs- und Gauleiter", cited by Rainer Zitelmann in "Hitler–Selbstverständnis eines Revolutionärs“, page 457.

"I am not, and never have been, a man of the right. My position was on the left and is now in the centre of politics." -- Oswald Mosley, Letter to The Times, 26 April, 1968, page 11.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 6:02 PM  

The mere fact that we are still arguing over race, identity, and Jews in 2017 proves the need for ethno-nationalism. I hold these truths to be self-evident...

Blogger FALPhil August 16, 2017 6:03 PM  

@25 Hitler's public views and actions were pro-Christianity and anti-secular, albeit heretical and subjugated to his own power.

LOL! Thanks for the laugh!

I have been called a midwit by the smartest guy on this blog, but I would have to be at least 2 or 3 SDs lower that what I am to make a statement like that.

OpenID Sidehill Dodger August 16, 2017 6:04 PM  

The very best book on Hitler and National Socialism is Rainer Zitelmann's HITLER, SELBSTVERSTÄNDNIS EINES REVOLUTIONÄRS (Hitler, Self Image of a Revolutionary. Ernst Klett Verlag, 1990, paperback 1991). Regrettably, this book is available only in German. If you do read German, I think it is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand Hitler's goals, how he saw and shaped National Socialism, and his psychology.

Zitelmann agrees that Hitler was a socialist, albeit a socialist of a new and revolutionary type. The quote that sticks in my mind was Hitler's response to the question of whether he would nationalize German industry: "Why should I? I will nationalize the German people!"

The two salient characteristics of Naziism were 1) It was socialist and 2) It was a German nationalist movement. This contrasts with the international Communism of Lenin (later reduced to a symbolic vestige by Stalin's purges). National Socialism was for Germans only. Hitler had very little interest in imitators that sprang up in other European countries. To be sure, he used them politically when necessary, and allowed Himmler to recruit his very inclusive Waffen SS from them, but he did not try to change the shape of the conquered European societies to fit the National Socialist mold. Yet another reason why those cosplayers who dress up in Nazi uniforms today are so contemptible: Hitler would have sneered at them.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 6:06 PM  

@75 Haha a little explanation seems to be in order. In Christian circles, some people get these crazy ideas to do something and say that God told them to do it. The God card is usually used in an effort to shut down any argument or reason when someone else challenges them on it.

Anonymous kHz August 16, 2017 6:09 PM  

'If I speak with a normal person who only knows of the Alt-Right in terms of Richard Spencer and Nazis, I'm fighting an up hill battle to change their minds and I have to figure out ways to fly under the radar - the term has been rhetorically neutered by the media'

Why fight uphill when you can fight down? Convince them of the wisdom of the principles first. Once they believe in them and adopt them, then call them Alt-Right.

What I meant by hold the line was, don't panic and don't concede ground.

Anonymous JamesD August 16, 2017 6:09 PM  

How is it Christian Charity to turn over relief of the poor to the State? Christian Charity is inherently individualistic.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 6:12 PM  

@78 Dude, you really are all twisted up on defending the Jews. Why are you so defensive of Jews? Are you a Jew? Fact is that the world has a great many amazing and beautiful tribes scattered about it, each with their own strengths, weaknesses and interests. It's OK if you are Jew. What's not OK is when Jews act in their own selfish group interest while pretending to be members in good standing of another tribe. Honestly, it sounds as if you need to go back (to Israel).

Anonymous JamesD August 16, 2017 6:12 PM  

It has to happen via the Church.

Blogger Whisker biscuit August 16, 2017 6:15 PM  

Good blog!

Blogger S. Misanthrope August 16, 2017 6:17 PM  

@56 Nothing in Vox's post is about the Nazi label being unfair. Are you illiterate?

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 6:18 PM  

@Halo: We don't care what you think. You are old news.

OpenID Sidehill Dodger August 16, 2017 6:20 PM  

VD wrote:The original Right was King, Church, and Nation. Anyone advocating for secular international socialism fails on all three counts.

Well put, Vox. If you don't understand this, you can't understand why all the real resistance against Hitler came from the Right; you can't understand what motivated the aristocratic Wehrmacht officer corps to hate Hitler, and to repeteadly try to overthrow him. It was not love for democracy that moved them! They would have had the Kaiser back, if they could. They certainly weren't going to tolerate socialist rule!

Blogger S. Misanthrope August 16, 2017 6:21 PM  

Pretty amusing how many commenters have managed to "misinterpret" this post as being about rhetoric. It's almost like the goal is to derail productive discussion!

Anonymous Joe Blowe August 16, 2017 6:27 PM  

The "Unite the Right" kids weren't getting beat up in Charlottesville to advance socialism and imperialism over the Slavs. They couldn't care less about that BS. They think Hitler was cool because he fought to protect the German nation from the Homo-Globo-Commie-Jews and their 3rd World Hordes and didn't give a fuck while doing it. Whether its true if Hitler did that or not doesn't matter. That's what they think. Nobody else has defended them and their nation the way they think Hitler and the Nazis and the Waffen SS did to protect their people when they literally took on the whole world. This cucking about "Nazism is really Communism" is academic BS that isn't going to persuade them or anyone else.

Blogger John Morris August 16, 2017 6:28 PM  

No disagreement as to what Hitler and real Nazis were. And yes I have watched enough to know there are some actual Nazis trying to be on the Alt-Right bandwagon. "Actual Nazi" defined as having read enough of Hitler to know what it really means and exhibited understanding thereof. They can't mean to do anything good as we would define it because Nazi.

But a large portion are LARPers who have been told their entire life that anyone who disagrees with the Progs is a Nazi and decided to go ahead and wear the jackboots, more as an act of rebellion than actual understanding. Those we should be trying to educate. Much like the Alt-Light is seen as a fertile field to recruit from, there are many potential converts out in the Alt-Reich. If nothing else as shock troops, if you didn't mind being called a Nazi, being called transphobic won't be a problem.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 6:28 PM  

Saying "Nazi's are the real socialists" or "Socialists are the real Nazi's" is weak rhetoric in my opinion and it's a distinction not worth being made.

It is not weak rhetoric. It is not rhetoric at all. It is dialectic and it is correct, factual dialectic.

The fact that you cannot even discern that is why you are not capable of even participating in this discussion.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 6:31 PM  

This cucking about "Nazism is really Communism" is academic BS that isn't going to persuade them or anyone else.

It will convince them once they fail a few more times and start seeking to understand why they are failing.

Why do so many of you have a complete inability to think beyond later this week? I'm not trying to convince the cosplayers now. I'm simply laying the foundation for them to jettison those that have misled them once they see what failures they are.

And they will. Some of them already are.

Anonymous Crew August 16, 2017 6:36 PM  

More importantly, the entire issue of socialism vs. capitalism is of minor significance compared to the moral issue of Hitler's grotesque plan to invade, dominate, and genocide several irreplaceable European nations, in defiance of all the moral teachings of the Christian religion.

It seems that Angela Merkel wants to do the same now, only to the German People. What would the Nuremberg Trials say about that?

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 6:37 PM  

@Joe Blowe: You clearly have a very low opinion of those who were needlessly placed in harms way in Cville. Which is unsurprising, as Leftists have typically treated their soldiers as mere cannon fodder.

Unlike you I believe that most are quite intelligent enough to understand the difference between Socialist Nationalism and the Nationalist Right.

Anonymous Anonymous August 16, 2017 6:37 PM  

"They think Hitler was cool because he fought to protect the German nation from the Homo-Globo-Commie-Jews and their 3rd World Hordes and didn't give a fuck while doing it."

In that case, they seem to have Hitler confused with Viktor Orban.

Only a tiny handful of participants had Nazi symbols, and they were probably mostly provocateurs hired by the government or the SPLC.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 6:37 PM  

@94 The blog post is all about how Nazi's are not and cannot be a part of the Right and ergo the Alt-Right. They are socialists which violates Point 1.

This is true! The truth often contains a call to action. To those who are logically minded, Vox's post is sufficient to convince them.

The problem is that people are generally prone to derive reason based on emotions, not logic. Thus the discussion of rhetoric. What do we do with the truth when Nazi LARPers and the Leftist/media/influencers insist that Nazi's are on the Right? Some people are trying to figure out how to act on the truth with rhetoric in mind because this is how you speak to the masses.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 16, 2017 6:39 PM  

No they aren't. That's absurd. It's not the Left saying, "They have to go back". It's not the left suggesting all "kikes" have it out for white people. That's all yours.

Again, either own up to your anti-semitism or find some new rhetorical dog whistles.


@65 Halo
It's funny how the idea that it may be best if Jews lived among their own kind rather than as a small minority in non-Jewish countries is "anti-Semitic". Care to explain?

"Did Vox Day call all Jews nasty names?"

On numerous occasions Vox Day and those in his comment section have broad brushed jews and lumped them all together


@78 Halo
Those aren't "nasty names". They're statements of fact. Statements of fact cannot be "hate". Get it through your thick skull.

Blogger Ingot9455 August 16, 2017 6:40 PM  

@65 Apparently Halo is not familiar with the alt-Left. Or with the normal Left, if he doesn't think they're antisemitic.

Anonymous Gingas August 16, 2017 6:45 PM  

And by the way, I borrowed the translated quotations from John J. Ray's document "HITLER WAS A SOCIAlIST". A very informative article.

http://ray-dox.blogspot.com/2006/08/this-article-is-published-on-internet.html?m=1

Anonymous kHz August 16, 2017 6:45 PM  

The Nazis and Commies had better fast decide between them who will be called Alt-Left, and who will be called Alt-Alt-Left.

Blogger Ransom Smith August 16, 2017 6:51 PM  

Oh my God. Have I actually read from some of you spergs that Hitler was Christian and the Nazis were as well?

I'd ask Dietrich Bonhoeffer but he can't exactly come to the phone.

Blogger Geoarrge August 16, 2017 6:51 PM  

Would it be fair to say that Richard Spencer was presumed to be the alt-right figurehead because, to the mind of a traditional journalist, someone with an actual magazine must be important?

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 6:52 PM  

The problem is that people are generally prone to derive reason based on emotions, not logic. Thus the discussion of rhetoric. What do we do with the truth when Nazi LARPers and the Leftist/media/influencers insist that Nazi's are on the Right? Some people are trying to figure out how to act on the truth with rhetoric in mind because this is how you speak to the masses.

Fine. Discuss away. Just don't make the mistake of assuming that I am involved in that discussion at the moment, because I am not.

Anonymous Joe Blowe August 16, 2017 6:56 PM  

VD wrote:It will convince them once they fail a few more times and start seeking to understand why they are failing.

I'm not sure they view Charlottesville as a failure. Have you seen the comments on Breitbart, Free Republic, and even on places Yahoo? This event seems to have completely galvanized the Right and the Trump base. I mean you won't see Normies throwing Roman salutes down on Main Street but the Right has show them a lot of support if only in reaction to the underhanded actions of the Democrat authorities and the rabid attacks by the Corporate Media on Trump and themselves over this whole incident.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 16, 2017 6:58 PM  

Stilicho wrote:the difference is that communists put their own commisars in charge of big business while the nazis invited the owners into the party and made them commisars.
That is a very concise summation. Thanks

Blogger Geoarrge August 16, 2017 6:58 PM  

@83 If you look at all of Hitler's religious references in his speeches, you'll note that any specifically Christian language abruptly ceases in 1938.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 6:58 PM  

@109 I second this. I say what I say for myself and do not speak for Vox nor do I presume to speak for him.

Blogger Salt August 16, 2017 7:02 PM  

According to FoxNews, the Republicans have achieved full cuck.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/346867-foxs-shepard-smith-we-couldnt-find-a-republican-willing-to-come

Blogger Elder Son August 16, 2017 7:04 PM  

But, but today's Nazi's are a different kind of Nazi'eez!!!

And other such kinds of nonsense.

I really hope the Alt-Right gets its shit together, as a whole. I watched this same kind of crap infest the Patriot Bowel Movement, III Percent, Oath Kidders, and etc. to irrelevancy. Define yourself, stick with it, make no amends. Antifa and the globalists KNOW who they are.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 16, 2017 7:07 PM  

VD wrote:once they fail a few more times and start seeking to understand why they are failing.
This expectation embeds a HUGE assumption about the alt-Retard that is not obviously true.

Anonymous Joe Blowe August 16, 2017 7:12 PM  

Anonymous wrote:In that case, they seem to have Hitler confused with Viktor Orban.


Do they even know who Orban is? They haven't been incessantly reminded their whole lives how bad Orban is. And he doesn't have a million documentaries of his army blowing shit up. I think Assad might have more cache among them.

Anonymous wrote:Only a tiny handful of participants had Nazi symbols, and they were probably mostly provocateurs hired by the government or the SPLC.

Yeah, they dig the Nazi mystic and the rhetoric but they weren't getting bloodied up and sprayed by bear mace and piss filled bottles to revive the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 7:17 PM  

The original Right was King, Church, and Nation.

King Trump sounds a lot better than President Trump right about now.

Anonymous map August 16, 2017 7:19 PM  

VD,

I think there is a severe misunderstanding about what fascism and national socialism really is. Neither NS nor fascism are political movements. They are, instead, antibodies. The purpose of National Socialism and Fascism is to remove the Bolshevik from society as soon as it appears. It is a reactive movement that is activated when society comes under threat from the Bolshevik enemy.

Now, this starts from understanding what Bolshevism is. Bolshevism is a political movement whose main purpose is to use violence and intellectual dishonesty to undermine a high-trust society from within. The weakened society is then primed for takeover by a smaller, well-organized group.

Think of Bolshevism as a computer hack or cancer. Computer malware looks and acts like any other program, but operates in ways not wanted by or expected by the user. The similarity to the operating system’s form and function and to the function of other benign programs hides the small malignancy that is there and that is ultimately lethal. Cancer is a similar problem. Why can’t the body develop antibodies from cancer? Because cancer cells resemble healthy cells that are in the process of dividing. Only the cell division is so rapid and uncontrollable that it eventually kills the patient. Yet the body only sees a benign process so it does not react to it.

Bolshevism appears in society like computer hacks or cancer. It looks like something familiar and benign…but it is not. Yet, this familiarity is no defense, so the Bolshevik is free to operate uninterrupted, while normal society (Wiemar Germany, Modern America) is helpless to stop it.

If, for example, the strength of European society is based on a series of nuclear families mediated by complex, fair and transparent institutions that facilitate competition and cooperation among these groups, then the Bolshevik will attempt to institute underage cousin marriage…while calling it liberation or some other nonsense.

A perfect example of Bolshevik propaganda writ small is Game of Thrones. We’re supposed to regard as a hero a White Woman who was descended from a royal lineage of tyrants who were justifiably overthrown. Instead of spending her life in a brothel servicing the Lannister army, we’re supposed to cheer her plan of amassing an army of dusky foreigners for the purpose of coming back to Westeros and murdering White People. At her side is a dwarf who betrays his family…the same dwarf who designed a security flaw in the castle sewage system making it easy for the Dothraki and Unsullied to attack his own family’s castle. These are the value systems the Bolshevik is trying to present as honorable and wholesome: betray your family and your people and you are Good.

The fascist emerges to destroy the Bolshevik, by hacking Bolshevism the same way Bolshevism hacks normal society. This is why you see the charge that fascism and socialism are so similar: fascism adopts the cloak of socialism, but turns it against the Bolshevik. If the Bolshevik screams “Workers of the World Unite” the fascist screams “why must the Polish worker benefit at the expense of the German worker?” If the Bolshevik demands that all property be confiscated and shared, the fascist demands that Bolshevik property be confiscated and shared. Thus, Bolshevism is broken on the Terminator-like zeal of the fascist.

Of course, if the Bolshevik cancer goes to traitors like Churchill and Roosevelt to demand help, spewing nonsense like “we were always a nation of cell division” then the proper cleansing of the Bolshevik may be arrested and reversed. That is how we got a world war whose result was to make the world safe for Bolshevism.

Anonymous map August 16, 2017 7:20 PM  

(continued)

"We National Socialists wish precisely to attract all socialists, even the Communists; we wish to win them over from their international camp to the national one."

Exactly, thus bolshevism is destroyed.

"I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit… The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it… National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order."

You mean it’s absurd ties with internationalism as the defining democratic order, where the Polish worker benefits to the detriment of the German worker. What else would democratic order mean, but a UN-style internationalism where foreigners have a say in your nation?

"After all, that’s exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism."

Exactly…against the international, all-workers ideology that races to the bottom, in favor of an order of nations that look out for their own people.

"I, on the other hand, have tried for two decades to build a new socialist order in Germany, with a minimum of interference and without harming our productive capacity."

Whereas the international Bolshevik destroys from within.

Under fascism, the helpless equivocation of Wiemar Germany was reversed and the Bolshevik met the fate of what he intended for the German people. For the German people to live, the Bolshevik had to die.

Once Bolshevism is removed, Fascism withers away, like in Spain under Franco.




Anonymous Bowman August 16, 2017 7:27 PM  

Mastermind wrote:"nazis are far left" is the rhetorical equivalent of "Dems are the real racists!"
Absolutely not. You didn't get it.

Playing the racism card is stupid because it's supporting the underlying leftist narrative ("racism is the supreme evil").
Socialism is objectively from the Left, and objectively evil. When we denounce it it doesn't backfire, and it serves the cause.

OpenID Sidehill Dodger August 16, 2017 7:27 PM  

VD wrote:Fine. Discuss away. Just don't make the mistake of assuming that I am involved in that discussion at the moment, because I am not.
Vox, I understand your point: you have made a dialectical case against the assertion that "Nazis are right-wing, and therefore should be lumped together with you alt-right people". Also you want to undercut the legitimacy of any claim made by self-identified nazis to march side by side with us because they are on the right just like us. I agree.

However, I think we ought to address the rhetorical side of the issue; it's obviously a big concern to many. Maybe you could start a separate discussion of that? Dialectics might influence political thinkers, but thinkers of any kind are scarce on the ground these days.

My opinion of a proper rhetoric is that if we are at a meeting called by us, and see some cosplayers hanging out, we should ask them to leave. If they don't, we should beat them with sticks until they do. (A stout stick is sometimes the most effective rhetoric.) If someone accuses me of being a Nazi, I hear what he is really saying: "I hate you, badthinker!". Well, what's to say? I shrug my shoulders and go on with what I was doing. Sometimes silence is also good rhetoric. Silence or the stick, as appropriate.

Blogger S1AL August 16, 2017 7:37 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 7:37 PM  

I realize this is a digression from what Vox is actually discussing about the facts of the matter, and I apologize for that as well as my misuse of the word rhetoric before.

My hang up is that I just don't see how an argument along these lines would be very helpful to an ethno-nationalist cause.

In the popular mind the Nazi's were evil on the basis of their Nationalism, not their Socialism. So they call us Nazi's and we defend by saying that we are not Socialists and therefore are not the equivalent of Nazis. To a normie however, this is a disingenuous deflection because the modality of us and the Nazi's being evil is that we are both Nationalists, which is true and not something we would deny. Furthermore, by resting your argument on the denial of socialism, you are basically excluding a good many people from the ethno-nationalist movement who may have socialist tendencies.

I just don't see an effective way to counter the Nazi-Bomb.

Blogger Desdichado August 16, 2017 7:37 PM  

The rhetorical counter to the alt-aight being associated with Nazis, especially if talking to your friends and family is: "I'm alt-right. Are you saying you think I'm a Nazi?"

The answer to (((Halo)))'s whining about anti-semitism is for the Jews to quit being such bad guests. And rage Jews that actually want to be guests should stop trying to browbeat the hosts with dishonest and womanly guilt trips and worry more about those of their fellow Jews who are taking a crap in everyone's pool.

Blogger S1AL August 16, 2017 7:38 PM  

I still contend that Vox is too generous. Those who willingly *identify themselves* as Nazis or willingly embrace them are both too stupid and too foolish to go looking for honest answers to why they're despised. Some might, under extreme circumstances, but I find it unlikely.

But it's a noble effort.

Blogger DonReynolds August 16, 2017 7:42 PM  

Great summary, Vox.
Thank you.

OpenID tonsplace August 16, 2017 7:44 PM  

Fuck Hitler. Don't give a shit how many, if any, jews he killed. Not my tribe, not my kin, not my problem

He got a fuck ton of White men killed for no damn reason. Let him burn in hell

Blogger Gary Eden August 16, 2017 7:46 PM  

OT...

ICANN is engaging in internet wide DNS censorship of Andrew Anglin...

https://gab.ai/AndrewAnglin/posts/10790362

Anonymous An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents August 16, 2017 7:47 PM  

@119 map
Neither NS nor fascism are political movements.

Short bus. Not reading further.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 7:49 PM  

Nazis are definitely socialist and of the Left in historical terms, unless one's perspective is that there is no alternative to socialism, which is currently almost entirely the case.

Given socialism, they are rightist.

However, socialism always fails, and cannot be sustained throughout the human cycle, therefore the victory of socialism is temporary.

Therefore Nazism is objectively Leftist, and indeed obeys the chief characteristic of the Left, the uncontrolled and suicidal holiness spiral.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants August 16, 2017 7:49 PM  

I'd like to put about 70% of the people in America currently, in the dustbin of history, but I can only speak for myself, and I tend to be a tad bloodthirsty.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 7:54 PM  

Decades of conservative intellectualism and still can't overcome the left's rhetorical kill shots.

Yet

Blogger Lazarus August 16, 2017 7:57 PM  

It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism."

Omninationalism is a requirement before any kind of global voluntary co-op system can be implemented.

Successful globalism REQUIRES nationalism.

Blogger Otto Lamp August 16, 2017 7:58 PM  

Debates over Nazism is exactly what we don't need to get bogged down in.

We ain't Nazis; Nazis ain't us. Zero tolerance for Nazi LARPERS and the use of Nazi imagery.

That's it; period; fini; done.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 8:02 PM  

Another key difference between objective Left and Right is rule by priests vs rule by warriors. Nazis superficially appear to be ruled by warriors, but are actually ruled by priests who make a religion out of being a warrior, which is not the same thing. That is why a corporal outranks a general.

Nazism is warrior-flavored theocracy like Keynesianism is capitalism-flavored socialism.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 8:15 PM  

Have no fear Congress is getting involved, gonna hold hearings on white supremacisim or something and nahtzees included

Anonymous peter August 16, 2017 8:15 PM  

Guys.. all this talk about hitler and nazi's just got Voxday tagged by forcepoint... its now in the websense and blocked ... thats about 100M computers that now will be blocked to start, and they share monthly with other filters so it could grow.

This nazi stuff is a white hot turd with nothing to be gained... the alt right needs to stay the heck away from this becuase it will not go away and your enemies will paste you with it...

Blogger Chris Mallory August 16, 2017 8:22 PM  

johnc wrote:The original Right was King, Church, and Nation.

King Trump sounds a lot better than President Trump right about now.



No thanks. We stabbed a bunch of Germans to death in their beds on Christmas to get rid of a King. The only King an American follows is King Jesus.

Blogger Out of Nod August 16, 2017 8:24 PM  

The Left also has more collectivistic tendencies and seems to assume that the Right is as well. It's all binary...

Anonymous AB.Prosper August 16, 2017 8:24 PM  

tz wrote:On the low tax thing, in a homogeneous society, most people realize they spend the same amount on the same things so those who are in need where it would be provided by charity, direct taxation, even at moderate levels is merely a substitute.

In heterogeneous societies, the moochers care nothing but want to live off the subsidies, the looters have them as a constituency, and the rest who are otherwise charitable eventually resent the moochers.

A little socialism in a uniform, high-trust society works, it would happen via the church if not the state. Any socialism in a heterogeneous or low-trust society will end up as Venezuela or Zimbabwe.


Social Democracy works fine in high trust homogeneous societies . The TFR among Whites is nearly identical in Scandinavia as the US , its sometimes higher and its among the highest in Europe , near replacement in every country , none of which are in the "doomed zone" like Eastern Europe or near doomed zone like Germany

Also as technology increases , there is less work anyway

Say you have a teenage boy who wants to work. In the 80's he might mow lawns, , work in food service, deliver papers that sort of thing

even without illegals and regulatory hassles there are robots to mow lawns (they cost a bit more than a mower now but will go down) kiosks at food service, no one takes a physical paper

we don't have demand for labor like we did and this means a lot more welfare or a lot lower birth rate

Sending many people back is a good start but its not a solution long term

In fact I'd argue that the Left going Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs on Cultural Marxism and Immigration is the reason we are not more massively more Social Democratic

Had the Democrats managed the gun control issue better and been socially moderate and the US looked like it did in 1970 say they'd control everything.

Upside of that failure it is gives a chance to try some combo of economic nationalism
and Distributism that is far better for the human spirit than a welfare state

Anonymous AB.Prosper August 16, 2017 8:26 PM  

Koanic wrote:Another key difference between objective Left and Right is rule by priests vs rule by warriors. Nazis superficially appear to be ruled by warriors, but are actually ruled by priests who make a religion out of being a warrior, which is not the same thing. That is why a corporal outranks a general.

Nazism is warrior-flavored theocracy like Keynesianism is capitalism-flavored socialism.


That doesn't make sense. Trump was never in the military and he is Commander in Chief

Anonymous Grinder August 16, 2017 8:38 PM  

Socialism is not inherently leftist. It was not even considered a thing when the original left right paradigm existed. Marxist or international socialism is anti-nation. Racial nationalism can freely adopt elements of socialism that serve the nation like universal healthcare, or sanitation, or education on personal hygiene. The right is about king and country, order hierarchy, traditional values. Liberty and the original liberals were about individual liberty and liberals are of the left and it includes laissez-faire capitalism and totally free trade as its ultimate ideal and hence the withering away of the state as the Communist Manifesto describes. Todays liberalism has run so far amok in individual hyperliberalism that we have purveyors of degenerate smut to our youth and constant encouragement of normalization of ever more vile debauches and mental ilnesses. The right is the community or nation asserting the right to decide who gets to come in and when to draw a line at individuals expressing their liberty in ways that harm the nation. A free people and a free nation is one that can collectively decide what goes on in the nation rather than being dictated to by foreigners. NS is about the people of the nation asserting their collective rights as superceding the rights of the individual where the best interests of the community are in question. NS is right. Laissez-faire capitalists assert the rights of the individual taking precedence over the rights of the nation and after decades of constant steady pressure now promote free trade and internationalism and are of the left like the original left wing in Thomas Paine's day. You can whine all you want and say NS are leftists because socialism while individual liberty is right wing and I laugh. I'll really be impressed if you can undo the decades of usage of the left-right paradigm and get the mainstream media to call them leftwing. I think you have a better chance of reclaiming 'gay' from the homosexuals. They haven't had it for nearly as long, even episodes of the Flintstones created in the 1960s has in the theme music "...we'll have a gay old time" and Flintstones was NOT about faggotry at all. Language is molded by culture and culture is molded by those who help create it. Right wing or alt-right will be defined by who makes it happen. No one is telling you not to hold your own (better) rallies. Go for it. Monomania attacks on NS IS shooting right. Personal liberty is great only to an extent until the people is harmed. If personal liberty always takes precedence over the community's rights then you are properly left wing. NS has no such reputation whether by Hitlerite practise which I don't give a piss about or by the NS I subscribe to as described by Rockwell.

Anonymous Bob August 16, 2017 8:40 PM  

I may not be classically trained, but I see only two differences between fascism and marxism; Marxism's goal is to be achieved by 1) violent revolution 2) on a global scale. Fascism is content with 1) political upheaval 2) within a set nationality.

Otherwise they are pretty much a wash for the average prole. Totalitarian Federalism with no checks.

Do I have that about right? Seriously asking.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:40 PM  

Marxist or international socialism is anti-nation.

You don't know what you're talking about. Leninism isn't. Stalinism isn't.

Anonymous Grinder August 16, 2017 8:42 PM  

A minor edit:"... A free people and a free nation is one that can collectively decide what goes on in the nation rather than being dictated to by foreigners or by international globalist elites who have loyalty to no one nation, and whose religion is the pursuit of wealth above all else..."

OpenID deconstructingleftism August 16, 2017 8:43 PM  

Capitalism is a progressive ideology that works symbiotically with communism. Opposition to both capitalism and communism- white nationalism- is then right wing.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 8:43 PM  

> That doesn't make sense. Trump was never in the military and he is Commander in Chief

Trump doesn't rule the USSA. Harvard does. And Trump wasn't elected for his holiness, but for his winning as a tycoon celebrity boss. Hitler was elected for his holiness.

So Trump might double down by raising his net worth to 20 billion, but Hitler doubled down by going insane.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 8:45 PM  

@142
Marxist or international socialism is anti-nation.

Trotsky thought so, too. Stalin disagreed. Who won?

https://infogalactic.com/info/Socialism_in_One_Country

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 8:46 PM  

There's little doubt that "Nazi" is a kill-shot for the left. But it's an epithet beyond ones like "sexist" and "homophobe" in the sense that it is also useful for justifying violence against the subject.

They've managed to make a Nazi worse than a pedophile. Does anybody really care if a pedophile dies?

That is why if you pay attention to their language, you see that they believe that anything and everything is justified to suppress and deplatform Nazis. After Trump's inauguration, they tried to push the idea that simply voting for Trump makes one a Nazi. That wasn't received too well by the general public, but they are going to keep trying.

They are now trying to get the whole Alt-Right swept into it; and already you see many sites and accounts being banned with the justification that one can never do enough damage to a Nazi. Even the tame AmRen was just banned from Facebook.

The Right has never been an effective fighting force and "Alt-Right" isn't going to get the job done either. To win you have to have power. It's as simple as that.

Blogger Meimou August 16, 2017 8:53 PM  

Halo
What is it with the Alt Right. When they don't think anyone is looking they are happy to call all Jews nasty names. When no one is looking they make the case that a person is bad because their skin isn't white. But when people start to look the Alt Right starts talking about economics.

Name one notable alt righter who claims people are "bad" because of skin color. Fyi: race realist don't believe race is skin color.

If you want to rid the country of all but white people, then say so. Don't hide behind semantics and economics

If you hate the idea of white solidarity and white self determination just say so, don't cherry pick comments on message boards.

Anonymous Walter Oleg August 16, 2017 9:01 PM  

Vox Day is a daily read for me but this campaign against Richard Spencer and Alt-White "socialists" seems beneath him?

The Alt-White (including RS) are concerned about race/nation first. So they'd rather live in old soviet union conditions with just Whites than modern America. It's not that they like the USSR, they just see it as less harmful in the long-run than what the modern West has become. I'm pretty sure most people on the Alt-White are more capitalist than socialist.

My IQ is probably half of Vox Day's and I know this (as read above), so why is he breaking Richard Spencer's balls? I can understand not being friendly with the Daily Stormer or the Right Stuff, but Spencer's been doing a fine job. He had an excellent interview with the media the other day.

How about he (Spencer) stops breaking Cernovich's balls, and Vox stops breaking Spencer's balls?

this bickering is pointless.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 16, 2017 9:09 PM  

tz wrote:

A little socialism in a uniform, high-trust society works, it would happen via the church if not the state. Any socialism in a heterogeneous or low-trust society will end up as Venezuela or Zimbabwe.


Worked out real well in Plymouth, that was also way more of a homogeneous society compared to what you could realistically create today. Since I can see you don't know your history I'll point out this is sarcasm.

Why? Because in the hierarchy of ideological priorities, the most important core value as the 'Aryan' Tribe. Socialized medicine was NOT the highest value among Nazis. It was ideology of racial identity and unity. Thus, it was more right than left.

Try reading something other than Aol for a change. The idea that identity politics is a rightist ideology is laughable. You would have to discount BLM, La Raza, the Black Panthers, The KKK, NAACP, ADL, CAIR etc. Of course I am sure all those groups have very nuanced policy positions and the identity elements are some kind of rightist corruption that snuck in.

Blogger DonReynolds August 16, 2017 9:11 PM  

@141 AB.Prosper
"That doesn't make sense. Trump was never in the military and he is Commander in Chief"

Neither was Obama, or Clinton, or Reagan, or FDR, or Hoover, or Coolidge, or Harding, or Wilson, or Taft.

Notice how many of these presidents, who never served in the military, were wartime presidents?

Blogger Meimou August 16, 2017 9:13 PM  

AOL-Reader
There were leftist elements in National Socialism, but its was more right than left.

Why? Because in the hierarchy of ideological priorities, the most important core value as the 'Aryan' Tribe. Socialized medicine was NOT the highest value among Nazis. It was ideology of racial identity and unity. Thus, it was more right than left.


Who says an ideology of racial identity is right wing? Why would it be? Your using the political spectrem and not the policical grid anyway, neither takes into account racial identity or nationalism.

Just because National Socialism had some leftist elements doesn't make it a 'leftist' ideology.

Just because NS has right wing elements doesn't make ithe right wing.

If the Nazi Germany government acted as a mother figure to Germans, that would make it a left wing ideology.

Blogger Retrenched August 16, 2017 9:15 PM  

Jonah Goldberg's book has a very good chapter on the lefty roots of Nazism.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 9:26 PM  

I think the names in the white Nationalist game should take up the title White Identity Politics and crowd in some ways the left

If white supremacist cannot be neutralized than white Nats probably will be

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 9:27 PM  

this bickering is pointless.

The truth is never pointless.

Anonymous Okay August 16, 2017 9:29 PM  

Poor rhetoric, Vox. The Right will not buy that Nazism is Leftist and the Left will not buy that Nazism is Leftist. These are actually meaningless labels that carry no depth.
You can call Nazism what you like, it will not change it, and the Alt Right was built on this foundation - this conflation of bloggers and vloggers who like so much to voice their opinion only came later, insignificant they were before, indeed, solely because by pandering they gathered an audience they only dreamed having earlier.
You're included here too with them, Vox.
By your standards, actually, you're a Leftist too, Vox, if you're so unaware.

Blogger Lovekraft August 16, 2017 9:30 PM  

The strength or upper hand of one's movement can be tested by how long one pauses before continuing expressing the view that's being assaulted.

When you type 'alt-right', knowing the eyes are everywhere, how hesitant you are is a measure of your position and authority.

Those who post badthink blindly and erratically versus those who choose labels wisely and appropriately.

The left's been compared to a religion or cult for a long time. If they are going to be facing the same hysterical condemnation as they bestow unto others, the left's next move should be closely observed.

Anonymous AB.Prosper August 16, 2017 9:30 PM  

VD wrote:This cucking about "Nazism is really Communism" is academic BS that isn't going to persuade them or anyone else.

It will convince them once they fail a few more times and start seeking to understand why they are failing.

Why do so many of you have a complete inability to think beyond later this week? I'm not trying to convince the cosplayers now. I'm simply laying the foundation for them to jettison those that have misled them once they see what failures they are.

And they will. Some of them already are.


This is the most important lesson of Charlottesville.

The Costume Nazis and Roman saluting dingbats need to go. They aren't Right wing in any way shape or form and while we can appreciate their willingness to fight for the White to party as it were, they are a liability

They won't listen to the simplest requests to not act like an idiot in public and to avoid the press and we don't need their fixation on that genocidal idiot Hitler , National Socialism or the theatrics

Meme games aside the .Alt Right is about the only serious minded group actually trying to save the West . we have grievances, sure but this isn't a grievance group or BLM Paleocon edition or something.

Its about the future of the West, nothing more, nothing less. Its about what works and Nazism doesn't work and Communism doesn't work. Hell we eschew genocide in all its forms and are strongly pro nationalists for everybody including Jewish people.

Now in the broader sense , Charlottesville was not a complete failure, we learned we MUST dump the Nazis and keep them from parasiting off our movement,

In addition we are learning to be organized the Normies got Red Pilled about the violence of AntiFa and maybe depending we'll learn not to allow mentally ill former Leftists come around oh and yeah we learned the Republicans are mostly cucks be kind of already knew that .

Not great , not even good but could be worse and despite the Nazi related fluster-cluck it was worth doing . Hell despite media aid the AntiFa came out worse than the Nazis who everyone hates so there is that.

In the end, the faster we learn to act in an organized fashion , the better it will be and the better chance we have of avoiding really bad outcomes

Anonymous Death Ray August 16, 2017 9:43 PM  

@Retrenched "Liberal Fascism"s best arguments were exhausetd before the 100th page. After that, Goldberg just flips over every liberal rock he can and finds fascism there, whether it comports with his basic theory or not. It would have made a better pamphlet than a book.

Nazism (which is just fascism plus race supremacy) may have lifted this or that from the other revolutionary movements of its time, but it is absolutely of the right, as it is concerned with all the things the right wing is always consumed with: nationalism, the failure of the establishment to preserve the status quo, fear of fading glory, and a resuscitation of chauvinism (amongst other details).

These are all things the alt-right is concerned with as well, which is why the alt-right is correctly called a neo-Nazi movement.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 16, 2017 9:53 PM  

That "idea" is and always has been the cowards code for "F_ck You, Jew...I hate you cause your a Jew".

Why the Alt Right can just come out and say what they mean is unknown. Well, maybe not. It's likely they are just all cowards.


@161 Halo
Okay, let's put it this way: do you think it's better for Jews to live among their own kind than as a small minority in non-Jewish countries?

If yes, then does that make YOU anti-Semitic? If it doesn't make you anti-Semitic, then why does it make the rest of us anti-Semitic?

Anonymous HoosierHillbilly August 16, 2017 9:58 PM  

@158 "poor rhetoric"...long, boring screed..."then you are a leftist too!"

Yes...now you get it! Poor rhetoric always causes people to take the time to type out comments on internet blogs...then use the exact "poor rhetoric" as their closing point in a refutation to make their point.

Come on cuz.

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 10:00 PM  

Hell despite media aid the AntiFa came out worse than the Nazis who everyone hates so there is that.

Wait, what? The following day Antifa were hoisting their flag at City Hall.

What this year has shown is that the left has a green light for political violence. The next push will be establishing it to be a civic duty.

Anonymous Death Ray August 16, 2017 10:01 PM  

@163 Halo, the alt-right doesn't KNOW why they think the way they do. The attacks on Jews are more a reflex than anything else. Fascism in any generation has to honor its ancestors, if only to anchor itself in history and draw from the last generation's resources. But the movement itself is more gut level. It seeks its justifications after the fact.

Blogger Unknown August 16, 2017 10:02 PM  

Be sure to mention Grindr Greg's 'Homophobia is Jewish' canard, Vox. He won't like that.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 16, 2017 10:05 PM  

Just unsubscribed from The Rebel after Levant's clueless piece on the alt-Right. Exceedingly substandard for them.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 10:09 PM  

Whoo. I thought I could be long-winded.

This thread got further into the weeds than might a combined thread about 1911's, Glocks, and Boomers.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 10:11 PM  

Gawd almighty, the Jews just won't give it a rest will they? They're like that Star Trek space parasite that crawls into your ear and causes insufferable pain and agony until you die. The solipsism is strong in them.

Blogger Lazarus August 16, 2017 10:13 PM  

Halo wrote:Why the Alt Right can just come out and say what they mean is unknown.

You have to go back. Your God said so.

Blogger Lucas Evans August 16, 2017 10:14 PM  

Socialism can work at certain scales with debt-free currency and eugenics. You're pooling the resources of a certain volk and using those resources to improve their lives. Under "Socialism" the Nazis built rockets, submarines and the world's first ballistic missile.

The United States used to be National Socialist for all intents and purposes. We had a eugenics program, the Boyscouts acted as our Hitler Youth, the community funded all welfare and medical needs via donations to churches and church-run hospitals. The biggest difference between National Socialism and America's National Capitalism is that almost all the major social institutions are private instead of public. Otherwise, the societies end up being quite similar and Hitler admired key aspects of American society.

Blogger Desdichado August 16, 2017 10:19 PM  

"That's a similar response to the proper response to the Alt Right's whining about white genocide: White's should be better Americans."

We're working on it. Are (((you)))? Sure looks to me like you're doubling down on the same failed, caricaturish Jewish behavior that seems to always cause your problems. Instead of working on distancing yourself from the bad actors in your tribe, you circle the wagons around them and continue to antagonize your host.

It'd be interesting to follow up in twenty or thirty years to see how well that works poor for you.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 10:20 PM  

I wonder if the zealots "fighting Nazis" realize that they're being used as cannon fodder, in particular that the MSM and assorted "stasists" fully intend to see leftists target an attendee from the right who is armed and is cornered by a violent mob.

If you don't think ABCNNBCBS, WaPo, HuffPo, NYT etc. aren't itching to put half a dozen martyrs' faces on the front page, you're truly stupid.

On the Right we have people familiar with the experience of Reginald Denny. On the Left we have zealots who think the cops & political establishment has their back, and that they're fighting a holy crusade.

Behind the scenes we have people more than willing to break a few eggs in hope of bypassing the POTUS & SCOTUS on the way to civilian disarmament, as ludicrous as we know it to be.

Naw, nothing to worry about.

Anonymous Death Ray August 16, 2017 10:23 PM  

@173 There is no similarity beyond the cosmetic between the Scouts and Hitler Youth, private charity has never been able to fund more than a fragment of the needs of the poor or desperate, and capitalism has never been patriotic except by coincidence.

Blogger Desdichado August 16, 2017 10:23 PM  

@Lucas Evans. This is why it's so hard to talk to the alt retards. "This American program that actually delivers what socialism promises, but which works because it's structured completely different than socialism is actually the same thing as socialism!!!1"

I don't know or care of its denseness or dishonesty, but either way, it's not worth the effort to try and penetrate.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 10:23 PM  

"Whites should be better Americans."

Oh, like women should be better rape victims...don't resist, just lie back and enjoy it?

(Chuckle.) Got your number.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 10:24 PM  

That Halo....

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 16, 2017 10:25 PM  

Halo: "Oh hey goys wassap?"

So, when are you going back?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 10:28 PM  

@dc.sunsets
This thread got further into the weeds than might a combined thread about 1911's, Glocks, and Boomers.

The Germans invented the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, you know. Just saying.

Anonymous HoosierHillbilly August 16, 2017 10:28 PM  

They built rockets! Rockets I tell you!

Just like...the British...under not socialism! And like those subhuman Mysoreans...150 years earlier...and...and submarines! Like the Confederate Socialists of America

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 10:30 PM  

Pro-white is a huge step Right for Americans just as pro-nationalism is a huge step Right for Europeans. That is the primary claim to Right-ness for the US neo-Nazis. Perhaps ReichTards tend to be stupid about the European nationalism question because it doesn't serve their interests to understand the divisions between the European nations when US whites currently need to unite to survive. Nevertheless the main project of the Left in the USA is the destruction of the white race. That is why identity politics for American whites is Right-wing.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 16, 2017 10:31 PM  

This thread got further into the weeds

Yes, it drew in a remarkable amount of tardery for something that, on the face of it, looks like it should be a dry discussion of economic systems.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 16, 2017 10:33 PM  

@173. Lucas, you're looking at the thing precisely backward. The Church receiving donations and taking care of the sick/injured and medical needs stems directly from the function of the early believers, where they went to extremes (with their own personal resources) to help each other out.

Where do you think Marx got the ideas that led to socialism and communism? He explicitly said that he got the idea from the Christians, but that it could be done better without God.

Turns out you can't take God out of the equation.

America wasn't National Socialist, Communism/Socialism were trying to ape Christianity (which is a big part of the foundation of the USA), not the other way around. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents August 16, 2017 10:35 PM  

@dc.sunsets
This thread got further into the weeds than might a combined thread about 1911's, Glocks, and Boomers.

And Gaston Glock is Austrian. So was Hitler. Just saying.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau August 16, 2017 10:40 PM  

Seems like it's the Left that's trying to destroy Israel by supporting the BDS movement to give the country to the Bedouins.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 16, 2017 10:43 PM  

Communism/Socialism could be seen as Christian Heresies, if you stretch the term far enough.

So could Islam.

Is there any wonder why "BURN THE HERETIC!" was so popular if you look more than about 250 years back in history? We're only deceiving ourselves if we think it isn't still popular, to be honest. The only difference today is that we have a bunch of cults and religions around that refuse to be called what they are, so they use different words than "heretic" when they try to execute the people they can't abide.

Blogger John rockwell August 16, 2017 10:45 PM  

@snidely whiplash

Not only was the King's power limited but the council of Knights made the decisions in the High Middle Ages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMCBe9p35Sc

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau August 16, 2017 10:48 PM  

Franco survived WWII because he was the only one of the Right Wing Dictators dedicated to the Old Conservative values of God, King, and Country.

Blogger John rockwell August 16, 2017 10:50 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash

Actually I was wrong. Its consisted of the great men like Bishops, Knights,Dukes and Princes

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 16, 2017 10:52 PM  

IMO, do pretty much all people follow and believe religions? Yes, the vast, vast majority. Really, I'd say that all of them do, every single one, but a lot of people would disagree by taking things like Agnostics at face value. It's hedonism, folks. Agnostics follow hedonism, they do what's comfortable and pleasurable to them. Atheism doesn't even try very hard not to be a faith. It's definitely faith based rather than fact based.

Do witches and warlocks still exist? Absolutely, although our understanding of their defining characteristics has decayed cartoonishly over time. Seeking power for its own sake is the defining characteristic, whether it comes from consorting with supernatural powers or from abuse of science, it boils down to exactly the same thing (and if you think there's not a "spirit of science", hoo boy, you've got another think coming).

I could go on for hours about things like sports-worship being a form of idolatry and such, but you'd probably mostly just assume I'm crazy.

Blogger Lazarus August 16, 2017 11:01 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:I could go on for hours about things like sports-worship being a form of idolatry and such, but you'd probably mostly just assume I'm crazy.

Hey, go for it. You sure will not be allowed to do it on an NFL thread. You will be banned and spammed so fast you will turn into a real-life bobble-head doll, which of course, is a type of idol.

Blogger Lemur August 16, 2017 11:03 PM  

Vox is wrong. Fascism is a perverted version of right wing values, but it a tumour on the right nonetheless. What divides the true right from the left is placing cultural, spiritual, and ethnic values before economic ones. Nazi Germany certainly did that, albeit in a retarded way. Unless you're a full blown communist, you can classify yourself as right wing so long as you posit higher values than 'muh free market' or 'muh proles' (look up Red Tory). Vox has concluded Nazis were leftists because he's applied a reductive framework of analysis.

Laissez Faire economics were liberal in their time. Unless you believe Adam Smith was the founder of Western Civilization, you can't locate 'socialist' economics exclusively on the left. THIS IS ONLY A LEFT-RIGHT DICHOTOMY IN TERMS OF THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN CONSERVATIVE LIBERALS (ie classical liberals/whigs) AND PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS. In the Anglo context, all stripes of whigs are on the left, opposed to High Tory rightism.

Look at traditional catholic social theory. It was based on the 'corporate' idea, derived from the teaching on the body of Christ in Corinthians. 'Socialism' has taken different forms down the ages, some good, some bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys7iCmJqHFI

Anonymous quaybangz August 16, 2017 11:06 PM  

They're working on something, #175. @Desdichado, and it sure seems to rhyme with 'you gotta go back' from my reading of just normal, right of center sites today...Dr. Suess is racist, white-sounding English is racist, ban free speech for people that we don't like, Antifa is just misunderstood, complete submersion in mainstream narrative from 'skeptic' Ken White...
http://www.vdare.com/posts/ken-at-popehat-to-vdare-com-die-slowly-of-cancer
http://www.vdare.com/posts/atlantic-is-dr-seusss-the-cat-in-the-hat-racist
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9589
https://archive.is/YZdW1#selection-1345.0-1351.0
http://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/08/15/yeeeah-thats-not-the-ticket-jon-lovitz-gets-schooled-on-the-1st-amendment-and-free-speech/
http://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/08/15/lol-wapo-significantly-softens-headline-calling-white-millennials-raaaaaaacists/
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9585
I just don't understand the psychology of this perpetual pushing against fellow white folks.

Blogger Lemur August 16, 2017 11:09 PM  

@Mastermind is right.

Vox, look up Spengler on Prussian Socialism, which he distinguished very clearly from both Marxism and Laissez Faire capitalism

Blogger Lemur August 16, 2017 11:18 PM  

"We just want to fuck up your national integrity and then demand you thank us for doing so" - (((Halo)))

The Jew cries out as he strikes you.

Who the hell do you think you are, dictating to the Europeans who founded America as a member of neurotic Levantine tribe? Why don't you fuck off back to your little nuthouse in CousinMatch.com and kick the shit out of the Palestinians? Or, learn to live like a normal people.

The times are a changing. Lotta people are getting woke on the Jew Question. Even normie conservatives are pushing against Jews by supporting Trump without being consciously aware of doing so. Oh, and the brown hordes you're letting in? They're getting pretty close to ending Dem support for your insurance policy.

Blogger pnq8787 August 16, 2017 11:22 PM  

So much of what we fight over is just word games. Right now it seems what we are fighting over is what it means to be an "American". Of course the Jewish propaganda machine would have you belive that "American" is anyone who sets foot on American soil and all their families and friends back home. The Cuckservatives would say that being "American" is a state of mind. A man with a brain might even bring in racial or cultural criteria as to what it means to be "American". But the reality is that the divisions among the people of this land are clear. It doesn't matter what the word "American" means. We are different peoples and that's all there is to it. And one day there will be differnt countries in this land to match the different peoples. And there is no amount of argumentation or word games or Jewish lies that will change that fact.

Blogger Lemur August 16, 2017 11:26 PM  

"Today, the U.S. is so far down the road of accepting its position as an ideological nation made up of peoples of numerous cultures and backgrounds and no longer a white man's culture"

Well make up your mind. Either the US was always this proposition nation (which we 'don't understand'), or it was a Northern European nation that let itself be talked into opening the floodgates by glib Jews.

At any rate, the counter-revolution is on its way. Generation Ziclon is breaking right, and nationalism dogs every (((door))) in the West. Globalization is a dialectic. Paradoxically, the closer it comes to realizing itself the further away that possibility is as it triggers the forces of the Thermidore.

Anonymous rando August 16, 2017 11:28 PM  

Disappointing.

Takes Hitler's statements when he was managing a coalition of actual revolutionary socialists (Strasserites and SA) and German supremacists/ethnonationalists (who generally did not have sophisticated economic theories) at face value. If Hitler was a revolutionary socialist, many of the killings during the Night of the Long Knives should not have been necessary.

Hitler was from the former camp and his statements about the Nazis having no economic doctrine are consistent with this, but inconsistent with his use of socialism as anything other than a sop to the revolutionary elements within German national socialism.

Anonymous rando August 16, 2017 11:29 PM  

Former should be latter in previous post.

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