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Tuesday, August 08, 2017

Google takes a stand

It's a bold move by Sundararajan. We'll see how it works out for him. It was inevitable, because SJWs always double down, but the irony of Pichai Sundararajan, a high-caste Tamil Brahmin, firing an employee for expressing his belief in biological inequality, is practically off the charts.
Google has fired an employee who wrote an internal memo that ascribed gender inequality in the technology industry to biological differences. James Damore, the engineer who wrote the memo, confirmed his dismissal saying that he had been fired for "perpetuating gender stereotypes," in an email to Reuters on Monday. Damore said he is exploring all possible legal remedies.
As I observed after reading the Google CEO's memo, Damore was doomed because Sundararajan had to mollify his insane SJW employee base, which right now is dancing and celebrating its own inevitable demise. Damore will be fine; he's better off out of the SJW-converged madhouse and has already been offered jobs by Gab's Andrew Torba and WikiLeaks's Julian Assange. But Google will not be, because this is a clear signal to the key engineers in Search and AdWords that it is Time To Go.

DH, who is one of the Dread Ilk's expert data guy's, explains.
All of Google is kept afloat by one thing only. Adwords. They have no other significant source of income after a decade or more of trying to diversify. Every other business is borderline trivial when compared to AdWords. All the moonshots have failed. All the R&D has failed. It's. All. AdWords.

The money-making core of Google is a tiny speck of its workforce, a tiny core of people who make AdWords work. The fear is not that 2/3 are SJWs, it's that one or two or three of the key engineers, who are working on the next version of Search and Adwords, who are actively fighting and hardening against existential threats to the product, might walk, or even just do a slightly less great job.

Google is actually a very fragile company. They are ripe for disruption from a new player, or alternatively, to be drained from a few deep pocketed rivals. The entire bubble of online advertising stems from a belief that is often irrational that online advertising is effective at certain definitions of cost effectiveness.
In other words, as the AdWords model fails, which is already happening, Google's massive market cap is going to rapidly decline with it because all of its other businesses have failed to find traction. The company has observably entered the ideological death spiral that is the inevitable result of the Impossibility of Social Justice Convergence.

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137 Comments:

Anonymous JAG August 08, 2017 5:09 AM  

The company has observably entered the ideological death spiral that is the inevitable result of the Impossibility of Social Justice Convergence.

And we get to watch it all in real time. I got my popcorn ready...

Anonymous dh killed a man, and VD fought in a dojo August 08, 2017 5:11 AM  

dh is exactly as worthy as VD.

Blogger lowercaseb August 08, 2017 5:14 AM  

those of you with gmail accounts...now would be a good time to familiarize yourself with the export tools. Even if the crash is a ways off, I would not be surprised if they started reneging on their "right to export" promises.

Anonymous Icicle August 08, 2017 5:31 AM  

Google has only been around since 1998. It looks like its time is almost up.

It's a shame.

the irony of Pichai Sundararajan, a high-caste Tamil Brahmin,

Hinduism has some major problems. Problems that Buddhism later corrected.

OpenID aew51183 August 08, 2017 5:32 AM  

As a plus, the #GoogleManifesto tag is an absolute gold mine of SJW's coming out of the woodwork and volunteering for archival into sjwlist

I suspect confirming who half of them are and archiving their tweets will expand the database 20 fold and take months

Anonymous AOL alone dominates all your time August 08, 2017 5:37 AM  

lowercaseb wrote:those of you with gmail accounts...now would be a good time to familiarize yourself with the export tools. Even if the crash is a ways off, I would not be surprised if they started reneging on their "right to export" promises.

Spoken like a person who has never controlled a mail server.

Anonymous Adam August 08, 2017 5:43 AM  

I don't know why Gab is offering this guy a job. The very first line of his memo stated that he supports diversity and inclusion. He is an SJW like the others but just made the mistake of questioning the narrative.

OpenID anonymos-coward August 08, 2017 5:44 AM  

The entire bubble of online advertising stems from a belief that is often irrational that online advertising is effective at certain definitions of cost effectiveness.

I actually work in online advertising. No, it's not a bubble, and the belief isn't irrational. It just requires lots of statistics knowledge to make it work; contrary to how Google sells its product, it's not an easy and painless way to advertise.

Blogger Wolfman at Large August 08, 2017 5:45 AM  

We don't have enough popcorn for this timeline.

Anonymous Alice De Goon August 08, 2017 5:46 AM  

So this is the "double-down on the virtue-signalling in the hopes that some NGO or other converged institution will hire you" phase of the Death Spiral. But alas, there are only a few makework activist jobs to go around. I've seen pictures of the inside of Google HQ which make it look like PeeWee's Playhouse and I've come to the conclusion that there exists no more coddled group of people on the planet. The only workplace I can think of that was more degenerate was Atari headquarters in the late 70's which (according to the documentary I watched,) a nonstop pot orgy. But we all know what happened to Atari and the video game industry in the early 1980's. Party's over. Time for y'all to get REAL jobs...

Blogger Midnight Avenue J August 08, 2017 5:46 AM  

What are the alternatives for email? I have Yahoo and Gmail, both accounts for so long and I have so much stored there I don't want a new email, but I don't care for either company and would rather not.

I have an email from my ISP, Comcast, but that's just for account purposes. I'd rather not do business with Comcast either but they're the only game in my town.

Set up my own server?

Blogger Al From Bay Shore August 08, 2017 5:54 AM  

It's becoming too difficult to keep tabs on the many fronts of the culture war.

Blogger SteelPalm August 08, 2017 5:59 AM  

@7 anonymos-coward

Eh, I've worked in the field myself (not presently but some years back) and agree with DH. Yes, search is a very math-intensive field and has shown an ability to be profitable, but ad clickrates have continuously dropped since the invention of the Internet, and there are no shortage of existential threats, as DH noted.

Regardless, it's a field that literally requires some of the smartest people on the planet, and Google going through Social Justice Convergence might well make the difference between success and going out of business.

Anonymous PAC August 08, 2017 6:07 AM  

Meanwhile in Sicily...
https://www.rt.com/uk/398850-prince-harry-google-summit/

Anonymous roughcoat August 08, 2017 6:12 AM  

Midnight Avenue J wrote:What are the alternatives for email? I have Yahoo and Gmail, both accounts for so long and I have so much stored there I don't want a new email, but I don't care for either company and would rather not.

I have an email from my ISP, Comcast, but that's just for account purposes. I'd rather not do business with Comcast either but they're the only game in my town.

Set up my own server?


I use Fastmail and Protonmail. I don't know that they're the absolute best options but I've had good experiences so far.

Blogger Shimshon August 08, 2017 6:13 AM  

"A Really Smart Guy’s Response To A Smart Guy’s Memo Accidentally Explains Why Modern Software Is Utter Garbage"

http://jackbaruth.com/?p=7152

I can't say I've heard of Jack Baruth before. But I like his fisking of Yonatan Zunger, of whom he summarizes:

Which brings me to the funny part. From what I’ve read, Mr. Zunger’s primary accomplishment at Google was…

wait for it…

Google Plus. Which is

a) utter garbage
b) currently serving a user base that is 74% male.

Anonymous Man of the Atom August 08, 2017 6:15 AM  

Midnight Avenue J wrote:What are the alternatives for email? I have Yahoo and Gmail, both accounts for so long and I have so much stored there I don't want a new email, but I don't care for either company and would rather not.

I have an email from my ISP, Comcast, but that's just for account purposes. I'd rather not do business with Comcast either but they're the only game in my town.

Set up my own server?


Protonmail and now ProtonVPN

OpenID markstoval August 08, 2017 6:35 AM  

"Numerous individuals alleged to be members of Google’s management team have been caught bragging about forming blacklists to impact the careers of colleagues with different political beliefs."

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/revealed-inside-googles-sjw-cabal-blacklists/

The SJW crowd are all socialists at heart, and socialism leads to totalitarianism and thought control as the socialist system fails to produce. Here we see Google has "enemy lists". Had to happen.

Anonymous grayman August 08, 2017 6:36 AM  

I've had success with this to replace google drive:
https://www.owncube.com/index_en.php

Anonymous quaybangz August 08, 2017 6:40 AM  

Whether technically a 'bubble,'@7 aka anonymous-coward, or something of an unexamined assumed positive, data like that shown below doesn't lead to positive conclusions for me. https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232279 "Eventually advertisers are going to figure this out. P&G already has to some small extent; they cut $100 million off their digital ad spend last quarter and saw no decrease in revenue growth. While $100 million isn't a large percentage of the total advertising budget for a company like P&G it underlines the point; that money was literally a cash bonfire handed to the people running the ads as it bought them exactly zero increase in business."

Blogger Bodo Staron August 08, 2017 6:44 AM  

@19

Exactly. This was from the Wall Street Journal. I imagine a CEO thinking "Hmm, I spend 100 Million on ads that do nothing or I buy a new yacht."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cuts-more-than-100-million-in-largely-ineffective-digital-ads-1501191104

Blogger Lucas August 08, 2017 6:50 AM  

Alt-Tech or bust

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2017 7:05 AM  

While it's lovely that gab and WikiLeaks have offered him a job, it's quite unlikely that either can pay him the $300k plus a year he was getting if he was a well-established 5 or greater. He still needs to sue.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera August 08, 2017 7:13 AM  

It's impossible for brahmin to perpetuate systems of inequality, because they're brown. Think about it!

Blogger SmokeyJoe August 08, 2017 7:14 AM  

Hmmm....Now, just time the shorting of Google stock correctly....hmmmmm

Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 08, 2017 7:17 AM  

Okay then. Vox, are you going to leave Blogger?

Anonymous 360 August 08, 2017 7:18 AM  

Unless the government bails them out.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 08, 2017 7:20 AM  

Site Reliability Manager Paul Cowan warned to employees that “freedom of speech is the right to freely express an opinion. It is most assuredly not the right to express an opinion with freedom from the consequences.”

They are building their lists and checking them twice.

If you work at Google and expressed anything other than complete condemnation and disgust for the Damore Memo, update your resume... You are a marked man.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) August 08, 2017 7:21 AM  

Hmmm....Now, just time the shorting of Google stock correctly....hmmmmm

Even if this is the tipping point of Google convergence, and Google is doomed to go to zero, we don't know how long it will take.

Anonymous rien August 08, 2017 7:27 AM  

Well, I am firing google...

My sites don't do much traffic, so they won't hurt too much... but if enough other people follow suit....

I am currently removing adsense and analytics from my sites.

I am still on blogger, but that too will change.

PS: I have already been using duckduckgo.com as my primary search engine. While not quite as good as google, it is more than enough for 99% of all searches I do.

Blogger Jan Minář August 08, 2017 7:28 AM  

The pain of blackballing is financial & social ruin. It is very hard to be bravely outspoken if the bravery equals loss of ability to be bravely outspoken. See journalists / academics. In comparison to taking away the ability to pay bills, do meaningful work, and be respected by your own peers, taking away merely a lot of disposable income while increasing fulfilment & fame doesn't quite have the sting.

It is much easier to sue if you're not homeless & not worried about your own future.

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 08, 2017 7:30 AM  

@22 $300k? for a guy only four years out of school and on the job?

Blogger YIH August 08, 2017 7:38 AM  

In other words, as the AdWords model fails, which is already happening
Sure is, Proctor & Gamble has figured out that spending a ton of money on online ads haven't ''moved the needle'' on sales. Not really a surprise, when it's being claimed that if 50% of the ad's pixels could have been viewed for two seconds it's considered a successful ad!
Instead of, you know, did sales increase after the ad started running? Or did the ad include some sort of offer that could be reflected in sales, such as a discount/bonus? Granted, Google at least tries to fight 'bots and click fraud.

Blogger VD August 08, 2017 7:40 AM  

Okay then. Vox, are you going to leave Blogger?

Of course not. If you read SJWAL, you will know why. And you will note that I do not use AdWords or AdSense.

Anonymous Monster Hunter Inc. August 08, 2017 7:41 AM  

I don't get you guys at all. Three years ago you would be defending Google (righty) because Google is a private company in the free market. They can hire and fire as they will (see Jeffrey Tucker's article for context.) But now you Trumpsters are for government intervention? Why? Because you hate the Jooooooooos? Because you are afraid of strong women? No wonder Trump is going down the toilet. His entire "base" is fat racist losers who worship government!

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 08, 2017 7:45 AM  

Moral of the story for leftist spergs. When they say they "F'n love science" they don't really mean it. Do not attempt to present them with science that goes contrary to their beliefs. They will only state that "you are wrong" with no attempt to show you evidence contrary to your facts. In fact, do not even educate yourself in areas they care about. It can only end in pain for you personally.

Anonymous SAK August 08, 2017 7:49 AM  

I think most here still want Google to be able to hire and fire as they wish.

I am hoping they do just that: hire the SJWs and move out the Damores, because I understand that whom the gods would destroy they first send mad.

Blogger Stilicho August 08, 2017 7:51 AM  

@ Josh, yep, there's a lot of fail left in that company. Of course, having a CEO named Sundar isn't going to help, especially when, as Vox pointed out, he has deliberately chosen to ride the SJW tiger. It will eat him someday, but until then, it will be fun to watch Googlers demand that male employees stop promoting gender stereotypes by wearing pants, working hard, and succeeding. Then it's a short step to demanding employees stop promoting racial stereotypes by using indoor plumbing, embracing western hygiene, or engineering standards.

New meme suggestion: a mud hut with the caption "Google HQ 2050".

Blogger Bobo #117 August 08, 2017 7:51 AM  

@MonsterHumper

Urine idiot.
We're saying that the market will handle Google, not the govt.
And who loves the joooos, really?

Blogger Desdichado August 08, 2017 7:52 AM  

Monster Hunter Inc. wrote:I don't get you guys at all.
You should have quit there while you were ahead; before you showcased exactly how stupid and ignorant you actually were.

Anonymous MPC August 08, 2017 7:59 AM  

"Much of the initial response to this memo on the part of shitlibs on reddit/twitter were snarky comments like...

:gay: OMFG SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE WHITE MALE WANTS A SAFE SPACE!

...which I found particularly interesting. Wanting a safe space used to mean advocating for the closing of discussion. Now, shitlibs have morphed it to mean advocating for open discussion. Uhm, you want to be able to speak your mind? f**king whiny baby snowflake.

This was couple with the usual derision like...

:gay: UH, TECH IS ALREADY DOMINATED BY WHITE MEN AND OPPRESSIVE TO MINORITIES...WTF IS THIS GUY COMPLAINING ABOUT?

...which, again, is always interesting to hear coming from the s**tlib mob. Because that's what it is, a mob aggressively asserting its power. Indeed, for people so finely attuned to power dynamics they appear completely unable to actually understand and apply the concept. One man writing a private memo for a small mailing group within one company is indicative of industry wide oppression of PoCs and women. Meanwhile, in criticizing this man they are joined by Google's hiring managers, its CEO, leading figures within the SF tech industry at large, dozens of major media outlets, and the blue tick mafia. From this they draw no conclusions, lacking in self-awareness that they are. This lays the absurdity of the s**tlib oppression Olympics to bare - it does not matter that everyone with any degree of power or control agrees with you...as long as there is one f**king white male who disagrees then bigotry abounds.

And of course, the reaction to his inevitable firing is similarly blinkered...

:gay: WELL WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? HE CREATED A HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT (BTW GOOGLE EMPLOYEE HERE IF I SEE THIS f**kING SHITLORD IM GOING TO PUNCH HIM IN HIS BIGOT FACE!!!), PLUS HE CAUSED ALL THIS BAD COVERAGE!

...you'll notice that when it comes to issues of speech the s**tlibmagically transforms into an acolyte of Rand. Employees can, and indeed should - they are expected to - fire anyone who's speech causes the slightest bit of bad publicity. Needless to say, this only applies to wrongthink. The CEO who tanks the company stock by a few billion through the promotion of transgender ideology deserves a raise!

But there's a curious subtext here. Random guy writes memo, techno-media oligarchy throws a shitfit, guy gets fired for "causing" shitfit. "He just had to be fired, that's the way it works" says the person directly participating in the very process that they insist must lead to his firing. There's something very disingenuous about it. Your typical s**tlib doesn't want to come out and say "this f**ker should be fired for daring to speak his mind" because, well, it just doesn't sound very liberal. So instead you say he had to be fired because of "negative publicity", the very negative publicity you knowingly and unnecessarily (this was a clear overreaction) gave him. They are doing something even worse than calling for him to be fired, they are getting him fired and then acting like it was some unavoidable process...just had to be done!

It's all so f**king disgusting and shameless. How low can they go, I ask again and again, and the answer is always lower."
https://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/8602-the-general-tech-poz-thread/page__st__520#entry372729

Anonymous JAG August 08, 2017 7:59 AM  

Monster Hunter Inc. wrote:I don't get you guys at all. Three years ago you would be defending Google (righty) because Google is a private company in the free market. They can hire and fire as they will (see Jeffrey Tucker's article for context.) But now you Trumpsters are for government intervention? Why? Because you hate the Jooooooooos? Because you are afraid of strong women? No wonder Trump is going down the toilet. His entire "base" is fat racist losers who worship government!

Because f*** you!

That's why.

Anonymous Someone August 08, 2017 8:01 AM  

Is that Larry Correia attempting to troll the VD audience?

Anonymous LurkingPuppy August 08, 2017 8:11 AM  

Someone wrote:Is that Larry Correia attempting to troll the VD audience?
No, and The Green Knight's Impersonation isn't John C. Wright.

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 08, 2017 8:12 AM  

What are the opinions of the Google SJW swarm of the Caste System of India?

Anonymous Someone August 08, 2017 8:13 AM  

Looks more like sclz, then.

Blogger Avalanche August 08, 2017 8:17 AM  

@8 "We don't have enough popcorn for this timeline."

Eh, popcorn nowadays is all made with GM corn -- best to find a new party food! The GM is probably slowing our reactions anyway...

Blogger Stephen August 08, 2017 8:27 AM  

Monster Hunter Inc. wrote:I don't get you guys at all. Three years ago you would be defending Google (righty) because Google is a private company in the free market. They can hire and fire as they will (see Jeffrey Tucker's article for context.) But now you Trumpsters are for government intervention? Why? Because you hate the Jooooooooos? Because you are afraid of strong women? No wonder Trump is going down the toilet. His entire "base" is fat racist losers who worship government!

Who here has said Google is not free to crash and burn their company? I have not seen any calls for government intervention. What a tard Monster Hunter is.

Blogger Student in Blue August 08, 2017 8:33 AM  

@47. Stephen

That's what happens when your only understanding of a position is a laughable flanderization -- nothing makes sense, so they can only continue to reduce you to what they believe is the lowest common denominator.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 8:35 AM  

ad clickrates have continuously dropped since the invention of the Internet

And that's why it's a bubble. That doesn't mean it's going to pop immediately, or that you can't be succesful with online advertising right now, either selling or buying. The bubble hasn't popped because no one's come up with a better system yet, so all the advertising dollars and the content wanting to be monetized still uses it. But the numbers keep getting tighter, limiting profitability on both ends. In 2005, it was easy to make money selling ad space. It's not now.

lowercaseb wrote:
those of you with gmail accounts...now would be a good time to familiarize yourself with the export tools. Even if the crash is a ways off, I would not be surprised if they started reneging on their "right to export" promises.

Spoken like a person who has never controlled a mail server.


Really? Well, I have controlled mail servers, so could you explain to me why his concerns are unfounded? I'll try to keep up.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( You are Welcome ... to go back to the hell hole you came from ) August 08, 2017 8:50 AM  

34. Monster Hunter Inc. August 08, 2017 7:41 AM
I don't get you guys at all.



because you're a fag.

Blogger Shimshon August 08, 2017 8:54 AM  

Monster Hunter Inc., we don't care.

OpenID anonymos-coward August 08, 2017 8:57 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:ad clickrates have continuously dropped since the invention of the Internet

And that's why it's a bubble.


No. Declining clickrates are normal for a market where all the obvious good pickings have already been picked.

And anyways, advertisers aren't paying for clickrates or views, they're paying for conversions.

And selling conversions means handling complex long-tailed probability distributions.

It's obvious that P&G's online advertising spending amounted to nothing. P&G is another converged megacorp that has trouble finding its ass with two hands, much less the Bayesian parameters of a complex unknown probability distribution.

(That said, Google won't be the one selling the conversions either, Google's advertising product is remarkably shitty. Google wants out of the complex math-heavy business and wants to make money selling your private data to anonymous third parties and the NSA instead.)

Blogger Michael August 08, 2017 9:02 AM  

What other search engines are folk using?

Anonymous DissidentRight August 08, 2017 9:12 AM  

DuckDuckGo

Also, the process of removing all my files from Google Drive will be completed in a few minutes. Time to start switching all my accounts to match my Protonmail...

Blogger Dangeresque August 08, 2017 9:23 AM  

A bold move by Pikachu Carrageenan.

"All of Google is kept afloat by one thing only. Adwords. They have no other significant source of income after a decade or more of trying to diversify."

Maybe Google should open a Patreon account...

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 9:24 AM  

And anyways, advertisers aren't paying for clickrates or views, they're paying for conversions.

I haven't used Adwords/Adsense in a few years, but when I did, you paid for clickthroughs. You could use the analysis tools to tie that to conversions and see what was really working, but I don't know how many people did. Maybe they've made that easier. Whatever remaining value there is in the model, I'd agree that conversions are where it's at.

Adwords seemed like a godsend at first, because finally you could know what your ad was accomplishing. A newspaper could tell you they reached 27,000 homes, but what did that mean? How many of those people would read your two-column ad on the bottom of page 5? Same thing with TV, radio, and the early Internet banner ads. Now you could know. But that also means now you can know when your ad is worthless, and people are starting to notice.

And selling conversions means handling complex long-tailed probability distributions.

Right. The thing is, the need for all that analysis is returning advertising to the province of advertising experts and stat-heads. You can still squeeze a lot of value out of it, but only if you really know what you're doing. If a small businessman sells fishing rods online, so he thinks he'll take some spare cash and buy Adwords units tied to the context of "fishing rods," he might as well just set the money on fire. He's going to need to become an expert, or hire an expert like yourself, who can figure out the long-tail search terms that will produce actual conversions, how to narrow it to the best demographic, etc.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a different thing from the model that made Adwords huge in the first place. It'll be interesting to see what replaces it.

Anonymous Second-hand Observer August 08, 2017 9:28 AM  

@19 and @20: Procter & Gamble achieved its "digital" ad savings by defaulting on contracts. This drove its major "digital" ad wholesaler out of business.

Of course, that ad wholesaler was badly managed, at both the strategic and the operational levels. At the strategic level, it was risky to rely on Procter & Gamble for most of its revenue, and it was folly to forgo any possibility of selling products through the "advertising agency" sales channel. At the operations level, there were many examples of mismanagement that were obvious (at the time) to everybody but those making the decisions (and their bosses).

Blogger Jew613 August 08, 2017 9:33 AM  

Does anyone know if YouTube is profitable? They sure seem to run a lot of ads.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 9:34 AM  

Site Reliability Manager Paul Cowan warned to employees that “freedom of speech is the right to freely express an opinion. It is most assuredly not the right to express an opinion with freedom from the consequences.”

Of course, when leftists weren't in power, that's exactly what they insisted it did mean, and then some. It meant the freedom to have women dance naked for money and not have your club shut down because the community disapproved, for instance. Or recall when Madonna came out with her porno coffee table book, and leftists screeched because some libraries said they weren't going to carry it. Never mind that libraries can't carry every book in existence, so they must pick and choose; leftists called that censorship.

What's funny is he could just say, "It's a private business. Freedom of speech doesn't apply. Keep your mouth shut and do your job." That would be both true and accurate to the situation. But that would give the game away. The SJWs want to believe this intolerance is in the service of a greater tolerance, not in the service of mollifying their feels so that Google doesn't burn down.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 9:35 AM  

I don't get you guys at all.

Don't feel bad. Lots of 'tards are living kickass lives.

Anonymous Crew August 08, 2017 9:37 AM  

That's a pity because Google has been sucking up all the SJWs and keeping them out of companies where I would work. Maybe now there will be more of them distributed among smaller companies because "worked at Google, must be good even if only at making sandwiches".

Blogger tz August 08, 2017 9:47 AM  

Fastmail is what I used to replace GMail.

AdBlocking is alerady around 25%.
Facebook has the quarterly oops, overestimated, Twitter can't monetize. Someone mentioned P&G finding it doesn't work. On the other side, clickbots and farms.

Blogger tz August 08, 2017 10:03 AM  

Amazing that with all the diversity fem feelz Google's customer service and support is still a python script with all the empathy implied.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer August 08, 2017 10:05 AM  

/politely raises hand

Ummm, what is a conversion?

Anonymous Athor Pel August 08, 2017 10:12 AM  

" 34. Anonymous Monster Hunter Inc. August 08, 2017 7:41 AM
I don't get you guys at all. ...
But now you Trumpsters are for government intervention? Why? Because you hate the Jooooooooos? Because you are afraid of strong women? No wonder Trump is going down the toilet. His entire "base" is fat racist losers who worship government!"



You're projecting.

If you're going to get any traction here at all you're going to need to be much more subtle. So use that university degree and think yourself out of the paper bag in which you keep your mind.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 08, 2017 10:18 AM  

Google doodle is nothing today. How about that.

It took 5 hours and 41 minutes for the shill to show up, that's pretty slow response. Sure, the OP went up in the wee hours US time, but what's that in India?

Maybe GoogleShill+ response time is slower because triggering?

Blogger J Melcher August 08, 2017 10:21 AM  

So, having already established the policy of lying to telephone pollsters, what is the procedure for lying to AdWords?

I think that AdWords surveys my browsing habits to determine I'm likely to (just for instance) buy an American Made automobile, from a dealer near Dallas Texas, at a price point below $20,000, with no interest in diesel or electric. So how do I go about pretending to like Yugos imported from China to dealerships in Los Angeles powered by electric motors and lead-acid batteries, transplanted from food processors, at an MSRP of $50k?

Anonymous Dan August 08, 2017 10:25 AM  

Damore should sue! Maybe a national group will take up his cause.

It appears that California has a law that prohibits people from being fired for their political views. It is worth a shot!

http://www.dhillonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/20140128_Punished-for-Politics_HKD_MR-Article.pdf

"California employees are entitled to special protections of their political rights under Labor Code Sections 1101 and 1102, which were passed in 1937. These provisions protect employees from being retaliated against, excluded from, or controlled by their employers with regard to the employees' political affiliations and actions. Section 1101 bars rules, regulations or policies that would forbid or prevent employees from engaging or participating in politics or from running for office. Section 1101 also prohibits companies from directing or controlling an employee's political activities and even from "tending" to do so. Section 1102 bars employers from coercing, influencing, or attempting to coerce or influence an employee's politics by threatening to fire the employee."

Blogger dvdivx August 08, 2017 10:28 AM  

Its like zerohedge. A promise of a fall that never happens. Twitter shouldnt exist either and the entire market is propped up by printed money. I really don't see an end as those that oppose the system are fired or killed. And its not just America this time its pretty much the entire globe. The only way it changes this time is if God takes up the deep state on their offer of war.

Anonymous Maxwell Smart August 08, 2017 10:33 AM  

I stopped using Google directly years ago. Switched to Ixquick and Startmail, and Tor and Freedome. Downloaded my Picasa pictures to several thumb drives. Have a leftover Gmail account; I use that for businesses that need my e-mail. ( I'll begin eliminating that one, too...)

Anonymous Jeff August 08, 2017 10:33 AM  

For those who can't short GOOGL directly (perhaps because you don't have a short account or option account) there is an ETF Technology Bear fund (symbol TECS). It basically tracks 3X the inverse of XLK, which isn't ideal as GOOGL is only about 10% of that fund. Apple is 15% and Faceberg is 7.5%.

But better than nothing.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 10:34 AM  

Ummm, what is a conversion?

"Converting" an ad view to an actual sale.

At first, ads on the Internet were a lot like ads in the newspaper: you bought ad space on a page, and they could tell you how many people viewed the page each month, but that was about it. You had no idea whether anyone read your ad. Then it advanced to the point where you could pay only for actual clicks on your ad. But spammers and click farms found ways to game that -- if you pay too much, it's actually profitable for someone to pay third-world drones to sit and click on your ad a thousand times. So you'd get clicks, but no sales.

So the next advance was to track the visitor from the point of entry -- clicking on the ad -- through your web site, shopping cart system, whatever, to the actual sale. That's a "conversion." Now, at least in theory, you can know that your $X in ad spending resulted in $Y dollars in sales. Except that you don't know how many of those people might have bought from you anyway without the ad, especially if you're a big company with a large online presence.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) August 08, 2017 10:36 AM  

For those who can't short GOOGL directly (perhaps because you don't have a short account or option account) there is an ETF Technology Bear fund (symbol TECS). It basically tracks 3X the inverse of XLK, which isn't ideal as GOOGL is only about 10% of that fund. Apple is 15% and Faceberg is 7.5%.

But better than nothing.


This is a bad idea

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 10:36 AM  

"Converting" an ad view to an actual sale.

Let me correct myself before someone else does: converting an ad view into whatever you're trying to get the viewer to do. That's usually a sale, but it could be getting him to sign up for a newsletter, join a petition, whatever the goal of the ad is.

Blogger dh August 08, 2017 10:48 AM  

So the next advance was to track the visitor from the point of entry -- clicking on the ad -- through your web site, shopping cart system, whatever, to the actual sale. That's a "conversion." Now, at least in theory, you can know that your $X in ad spending resulted in $Y dollars in sales. Except that you don't know how many of those people might have bought from you anyway without the ad, especially if you're a big company with a large online presence.

That was state of the art 9 years ago.

Now, state of the art is that you are tracked, because of Google's pervasive network, across hundreds of thousands of sites. Google claims credit for a sale if you come close to an item, and the later buy it. They are able to track you through something like 60% of the web, with that number ticking up more and more each month.

Google, Facebook, and Amazon all have projects where the they marry up your online habits with your in-person and offline purchases.

All this is to increase sales, because the average cost per click has been decreasing quarter over quarter. That means to maintain revenue as flat or expand you must continued to capture more and more views and clicks. It's deflationary spiral.

I am not as bearish on Google as VD; they have a strong business and there millions of people who are in the AdWords ecosystem selling, manipulating, promoting, or otherwise rigging the AdWords system for Google's implicit and their own explicit benefit. The network is stunning.

However, everyone in the high-ups at Alphabet knows that the rug could be pulled. It's why the focus on "moonshots" - new businesses that they can invest heavily in and dominate for future survival.

The real problem is however that all their other lines of business all exist to support AdWords. The phone business originally started to be a money maker. Now, a decade plus out.. they're main purpose is to sell mobile ads. If you take away adwords revenue from mobile, Android is a very expensive business in a commodity market (that they have invested tens of billions into to get patents, buy in from partners, and global presence).

Anonymous Jeff August 08, 2017 10:56 AM  

This is a bad idea

Yes, leveraged ETF's require exquisite timing, i.e. short time horizon.

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III August 08, 2017 11:06 AM  

>Does anyone know if YouTube is profitable?

No, it hemorrhages money. They are not even close to monetizing it to the point of profitability.

Blogger dh August 08, 2017 11:18 AM  

No, it hemorrhages money. They are not even close to monetizing it to the point of profitability.

They don't even account for it's costs correctly, if they did, it would be even worse.

Put it this way, YouTube uses 20% of the all bandwidth on the entire internet, worldwide. The cost for supplying the upstream for 20% of the internet is unbelievable. Netflix is the about 30%, and there accounting, which is more transparent, suggests they are spending 4x - 5x what Google is paying.

(To learn about Netflix's model, which is built on AWS/Amazon, read here: https://stephenfollows.com/the-economics-of-netflix/).

Google is very likely sharing bandwidth costs between their other products and YouTube, and allocating costs more favorably to YouTube, to make it seem like its utilizing less capital than it really is responsible for. Which basically means the are over-allocating expenses to search to hide how bad many of their other products and properties are doing earnings and cost wise.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 11:18 AM  

Now, state of the art is that you are tracked, because of Google's pervasive network, across hundreds of thousands of sites.

Which is why it's hard for anyone to compete, even if he has a better model. That ubiquity is a massive advantage. P&G and a bunch of other big companies who don't feel like they're getting their money's worth could pool some resources and create their own Adwords clone, sharing the data between them. But they wouldn't have anywhere near the footprint that Google has achieved.

millions of people who are in the AdWords ecosystem selling, manipulating, promoting, or otherwise rigging the AdWords system for Google's implicit and their own explicit benefit. The network is stunning.

Yes, and I think for many users, it's what other choice do they have? Maybe it's not as profitable for them as it used to be, but there doesn't appear to be an alternative on the horizon, at least not one that provides the same advantages and ease of use. When I read people talking about getting off Adwords and doing something else, it's always more complicated, like going back to buying individual banner ads from sites that actually relate to your product. That's more work and doesn't scale up well. I hear people saying Facebook's system costs/pays much better, but it's more complicated and doesn't reach as far. It's pretty hard to get people to switch to something that's more trouble to use.

Blogger dh August 08, 2017 11:22 AM  

Cail, agree, the network effect is why Google has a $50B advertising business.

The disruptor threat is there, but the other one I mentioned is being bled dry by Facebook and other threats. One such threat is that the click through and completion rates become so low that advertisers just decide to pass. That is the type of sudden zeitgeist switch that can happen quickly. It has happened in TV advertising before, where in the space of one or two season advertiser sentiment shifts and a block of programming is left dangling without sponsors.

Google very narrowly had a major run in this last year with extremist content, and they had to hire thousands of censors to essentially babysit their AI/machine learning content approval system. Google accidentally monetizes the wrong YouTube video or website and advertiser sentiment could shift very quickly.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 08, 2017 11:23 AM  

They are not even close to monetizing [YouTube] to the point of profitability.

And the squeezing they did recently on the creators' cut already has some of them looking for alternatives. I know of Twitch streamers who used to put all their videos on YouTube as well, but now they're wondering if it's worth the trouble. It doesn't make much, people can already view them on Twitch, and that gets the user closer to where they make their real money from subscriptions. Now they're experimenting with: what happens if we don't put them there, or just put some of them there? How much does that hurt our traffic, or does it just move it? New questions are being asked.

Anonymous Bell Worthington August 08, 2017 11:26 AM  

If you don't have an ad blocking extension on your browser, you are feeding the enemy. Simple as that.

Anonymous Heywood August 08, 2017 11:32 AM  

Does anybody know if it is true that Adwords is basically the only profitable Google business? I would have thought that all the Google Cloud Platform offerings drew a pretty penny - or has AWS and Azure cornered that market?

Blogger bw August 08, 2017 11:35 AM  

High-Caste Elitism.
Gassing is next.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 08, 2017 11:35 AM  

@68.

Note how long that law has been on the books? CA is a one-party state and the law, if enforced, is only enforced against something like a Christian bookstore. Of the criminals with J.D. degrees in CA, how many are not SJWs of the worst type themselves? 5% at the outside? Go beyond lawyers and you get to judges - the J.D.'s who graduated at the bottom of their law-schul classes, generally even more rabid than the typical law-firm shyster (keep in mind, with lawyers, the slimy Saul Goodman types are the less rabid ones). Judges pay no attention to laws, constitutions or anything else except their feelz - especially in one-state Californistan. While it would be good to see a successful action filed against the converged Google, this is another example of ghost-dancing. There is no rule of law in places like California, only arbitrary opinions of SJW judges and politicians. CA is an excellent example of anarcho-tyranny - the near-perfection of what those who run the Fake Banana Empire see as the utopian future.

Blogger dh August 08, 2017 11:41 AM  

Adwords is the only profitable business. By far. Alphabets "other bets" are making about $1 for every $5 they lose. I.e. they would be running dry if they didn't have Google's revenues to cushion (easily) the losses.

Here is a recent recap of finances from late 2016. It talks about how those other bets are going.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-results-idUSKBN17T2ZZ

Alphabet doesn't really report it's Google Cloud seperately, but in a typical quarter, all of advertising is something like $20-22B in revenue with everything else - all other lines of business at Alphabet - clocking something like $3B in revenue.

Blogger bw August 08, 2017 11:49 AM  

BTW, Google IS CIA and the US Military Intel/Banksta Network. (In-Q-Tel, etc).
Anyone mentioned keeping eye on ball?

Blogger Were-Puppy August 08, 2017 12:06 PM  

@10 Midnight Avenue J
What are the alternatives for email?
---

Someone on Gab suggested protonmail.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 08, 2017 12:30 PM  

Google is now mining my Gmail account to provide me unsolicited reminders of upcoming bill due dates. It's a new Android phone app I most assuredly did not request.

Bailing on everything Google is now a personal priority. Rooting the phone, abandoning Gmail and Google calendar are Job One.

Now, if only I could give up the cash-back programs on credit cards. The ONLY valid reason they exist is to capture and sell my purchasing habits. Even though I know what they're doing, even I have difficulty paying the price of privacy.

Is it worse that I know and still choose serfdom?

Blogger dc.sunsets August 08, 2017 12:32 PM  

Google, FB & credit card companies are the Matrix.

Blogger kurt9 August 08, 2017 12:34 PM  

A friend of mine, who is a self-published author on medical issues, has told me that he has been consistently been billed for about twice the number of click-throughs on a monthly basis than what his site counter shows. This has resulting in a class-action lawsuit against Google for deceptive billing for adwords advertising. I used adwords advertising about 8-10 years ago for my own instrumentation business, which is how I learned of the class-action lawsuit. I received the solicitation from the litigating law firm.

The so-called "moonshots" are over. Google recently hired a female CFO (who is actually competent) who has forced them to divest themselves of all of the "moonshot" stuff, including Boston Dynamics, that robot "dog" start-up as well as several AI acquisitions. That Google is SJW converged as reported here and elsewhere makes clear they had absolutely no possibility of success in any of their "moonshot" endeavors. Productivity in R&D and technology commercialization is simply impossible in an organization as dominated by lefty SJW's as Google.

It is true that the only commercial source of income for Google is the adwords. However, I suspect that Google, along with Facebook, Microsoft, and others are receiving tons of money from the NSA and CIA as intelligence contractors not to dissimilar to the aerospace contractors in SoCal during the Reagan defense buildup.

"Silicon" Valley today (I use silicon in quotes since no actual silicon is made there these days) is a financial house of cards just waiting to fall. The only companies that create any actual value are Apple (which is likely SJW converged but not to the same extent as Google) and Amazon.

Blogger dh August 08, 2017 1:22 PM  

Now, if only I could give up the cash-back programs on credit cards. The ONLY valid reason they exist is to capture and sell my purchasing habits. Even though I know what they're doing, even I have difficulty paying the price of privacy.

The cash back and rewards have nothing to do with capturing your data. Most issuers are moving towards L3 data capture, which is line-item data capture of exactly what the charges going to the card consist of. First it was just basic categories, but recenty revisions include line-item detail. This is regardless of any reward and cash back program.

Rewards and cash back programs divert a portion of the interchange and processing fees to good customers to induce them to make low-risk high-volume transactions, which drives about 50% of the credit/banking industries revenue from card processing (the other being finance charges and credit extension).

I.e. if you want to avoid data capture you basically can't use cards.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 08, 2017 1:31 PM  

If it weren't for the cash-back system, every single local purchase I make would be in cash. I know card co's don't need cash-back to compile their dossier on me, but they do need it 1) to acquire customers in a competitive market and 2) to funnel as many purchases as possible into their database.

Privacy, like any good or service, has a price. The lack of privacy has a cost (price), too.

The PERCEPTION of that relationship is quite literally a function of trust.

Under a regime of pathological social trust, privacy costs way more than does swimming naked or living in a glass house.

Wait until the tide goes out, or stones begin to be regularly thrown.

Blogger Peter Jackson August 08, 2017 1:53 PM  

Note the sleight-of-hand in substituting the word "gender" for sex. Of course there can't be gender stereotypes since you can declare your gender to be whatever you like.

This ignores the inconvenient fact that >99% of people have a gender that aligns with his or her's birth sex, and sex differences are as real as the computer I'm typing on.

So it's OK for the DOJ to look at statistics to conclude that Company X doesn't have enough female engineers, but it's not OK to use statistics to suggest that there should be more male engineers in a pure, bias-free meritocracy.

Anonymous franklinjennings August 08, 2017 1:58 PM  

@dc.sunsets

The research suggests that no matter how rational you think you are, the convenience and deferred payment offered by credit cards lead to overspending vs. the psychological pain of paying for everything with cash with reduces spending. The difference in monthly spending depending on which payment method you use is huge, at least 20% even for hyper-conscious, hyper-rational types. That's approximately TEN TIMES more money than you're getting in cash back. There is no cost to abandoning credit cards; there is only benefit.

Blogger tz August 08, 2017 2:15 PM  

@89 went to Fastmail.com, which has pages on escaping from GMail. I never used GMail itself for much but to aggregate other mail. When they started populating my calendar with birthdays of long ago colleagues, I dropped that. GMail was the stickiest thing because of the volume, but I'm off it (dataliberated into MBOX archives for the really old stuff). But I just keep it open and that is my Google account. I'll have to see about rooting my latest tablet. I have one last spreadsheet I use to track things in Google Docs that I haven't found an easy alternative (and Microsoft Office 360 is not one). But my Google Footprint and what they can mine has shrunk considerably.

On cashback cards it is really convenience, and that debit and other cards don't have the protections against fraud (If someone does false charges). Many have fees or other problems. Though I really should use one from my Credit Union - I suspect Visa/MC will still mine the data, but my local CU won't pull a Wells Fargo.

Blogger weka August 08, 2017 2:15 PM  

@Avalanche, there is only one party food for watching Google burn itself down.
Bacon. Our gracious leader will, of, course, use prosciutto.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 08, 2017 2:25 PM  

Our gracious leader will, of, course, use prosciutto.

Or grilled SJW.

Anonymous AB.Prosper August 08, 2017 2:34 PM  

Monster Hunter Inc. wrote:I don't get you guys at all. Three years ago you would be defending Google (righty) because Google is a private company in the free market. They can hire and fire as they will (see Jeffrey Tucker's article for context.) But now you Trumpsters are for government intervention? Why? Because you hate the Jooooooooos? Because you are afraid of strong women? No wonder Trump is going down the toilet. His entire "base" is fat racist losers who worship government!

Ah no. Got to give you credit for being a better grade of Soros Hasbra though. Kind of on topic and slightly entertaining. Earned your Soros bucks I'll say

So anyone else who might actually be a libertarian and not Hasbra understands, the .Alt right isn't libertarian and has no problems using similar methods to the what its enemy does

The want to age economic war or lawfare or use the Rules for Radicals we'll do it better and harder and the old bleat of "we'll all lose if you do that falls" on deaf ears around here. What ye shall sow, ye shall reap.


two differences .

We are not beautiful losers as Sam Francis put it, we want to win

and second the .Alt Right is honorable and if the foe keeps a truce, so will we.

Otherwise Ad Victorium! VAe Victus and all that Latin coolness

Blogger Roger G2 August 08, 2017 2:36 PM  

I told a google software engineer to get help yesterday(on Twitter).
Why?
Because she said the memo made her "sick to her stomach."
Unbelievable.
"Someone, somewhere, where I work, has an opinion on things that doesn't match what I've been told by feminists!"

Anonymous franklinjennings August 08, 2017 3:10 PM  

Great summary, Roger G2, of what causes SJWs to freak out: "Someone, somewhere, where I work, has an opinion on things that doesn't match what I've been told by feminists!"

Blogger Ingot9455 August 08, 2017 3:27 PM  

@89 If you manage and work the game right, like an expert couponer, you can still make gains depending.

It used to be that one got a dollar-a-mile on certain cards with certain airlines, and you could pay your college tuition on your credit card. Put on card, pay off immediately - my parents and my husband's parents both got two family trips overseas on that mileage.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 08, 2017 3:40 PM  

@ franklinjennings, seriously, they didn’t study ME.

I pay the bills and I know (via a comprehensive spreadsheet) to almost the dollar what comes in, what goes out, the difference between the two and a two-year projection of the accumulation.

I don't spend more than a few dollars a year more on plastic than if I counted out the green-stained pieces of paper.

I do, however, recognize the general truth of your statement.

[More astonishing to me is the number of often well-educated or intelligent people who revolve balances on cards. Even in some cases well-paid employees in the card industry itself. (!)]

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 08, 2017 3:42 PM  

Heywood wrote:I would have thought that all the Google Cloud Platform offerings drew a pretty penny - or has AWS and Azure cornered that market?
Cloud is quickly, very quickly, becoming low-margin commodity. This is due to the nature of what they're selling, which is virtual machines and services that can easily and quickly be deployed, ramped up, ramped down and decommed with no capital investment. If Nike needs a hundred more webservers to handle traffic during the World Cup, they can spin them up, serve their customers, spin them down when the traffic spike is over and then have them magically disappear.

The transient nature of cloud services means that it's dead easy to move your AWS load to Azure or Google. In fact, if you're a heavy user of cloud services, you'd be crazy not have a footprint in each provider. Does everyone remember the AWS outage a few weeks ago? That resolves into constant and heavy downward pressure on prices and hence margins. Within 5 years, you'd be very very lucky to make 10% on a very capital intensive business.

Where money could be made right now is creating a cross-platform dashboard that provides a single management system for multiple cloud services. That's the sort of thing that Google used to be good at. now I doubt they could even identify the opportunity, let alone capitalize on it.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 08, 2017 3:46 PM  

Google is not a private firm. It's corporate fleet of aircraft used US government refueling tanks (tax free, mind you) for years before getting caught.

Like the phone carriers, all the tech corp choke points are captured by or de facto subsidiaries of Uncle's three letter agencies.

There's little in America larger than a lemonade stand that's not a subsidiary.

Anonymous Bell Worthington August 08, 2017 3:47 PM  

@96

Good to see people spreading alternatives to google's spyware.

protonmail.com is another solid email provider that stresses privacy and offers a free service in addition to their paid tiers. They're based in Switzerland. Can't go wrong with that one afaik.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 08, 2017 3:50 PM  

Denninger's rants about Cloud insecurity indicate it is yet another elephantine signal of too much trust.

When that trust finally evaporates, there will be an ENDLESS stream of scandals come to light, and "everyone" will wonder who TF was stupid enough to sign up for any of it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 08, 2017 3:51 PM  

Gmail is for spam magnet accounts.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 08, 2017 3:53 PM  

dc, "cloud" is another term for "someone else's computer".

Anonymous franklinjennings August 08, 2017 4:02 PM  

Good headline: The Company That Knows Everything About You Is Now Punishing Thoughtcrimes

Blogger James Dixon August 08, 2017 4:34 PM  

> So how do I go about pretending to like Yugos imported from China to dealerships in Los Angeles powered by electric motors and lead-acid batteries, transplanted from food processors, at an MSRP of $50k?

By browsing the sites which list them and clicking on the ads for them. Preferably with Chrome so there's no intermediary step of scanning for cookies and it goes straight to Google.

No, you don't have to buy anything. Just browsing for them should be enough.

> ...or has AWS and Azure cornered that market?

From what I've read, Google's cloud is a distant third or fourth. IBM is the other second tier player.

> What are the alternatives for email?

I'd recommend Fastmail/PoBox. Or set up your own hosted domain and receive your mail directly. You can do that for less than $10/month.

Anonymous Perfunctory Quotidian August 08, 2017 5:17 PM  

Tutanota has a good email system, doesn't ask for much information when you sign up. They have an annoyingly robust password requirement though.

Anonymous Heywood August 08, 2017 5:24 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote
The transient nature of cloud services means that it's dead easy to move your AWS load to Azure or Google.

I find everything you wrote about the economics of cloud hosting convincing. But the quoted part here - not so much. My company has a significant multiyear investment in BI on Amazon Redshift and DynamoDB, and these things are different enough from Azure and Google offerings that rewriting the code that drives them would be comparable in many respects to rewriting native applications. We are approaching three quarters of a petabyte of data in regular crunches, and it takes some serious implementation fiddling to make that dance and sing. It certainly would not be a cut-and-paste job to move all that to say, Google BigQuery and Hadoop.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 08, 2017 6:21 PM  

Heywood wrote:I find everything you wrote about the economics of cloud hosting convincing. But the quoted part here - not so much.
True enough. I view things from a system administrator POV, and it's all systems and resources from here. DynamoDB is another beast entirely. One I'm pretty sure Google isn't going to try to tame.

Blogger peppermint88 August 08, 2017 6:28 PM  

The White AdSense and Search essential employees need to be made aware that literally everyone hates them. If the SJWs win they will be killed for being White, and if the Nazis win they will be killed for being traitors.

Blogger Thucydides August 08, 2017 7:02 PM  

It is difficult to imagine that Google will continue to innovate (or even continue to maintain its hold on advertising revenue software dominance) when everyone is looking over their shoulders waiting for the axe to fall. We can always hope the 1/3 of the people who supported the manifesto who leave/are purged can for the nuclei of enough alt tech startups freed of SJWism to lead a new alt tech revolution against Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and all the other converged tech giants.

Sadly, Google's cash cushion is probably large enough to last for almost a decade, so we won't be rid of them that easily.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer August 08, 2017 7:04 PM  

@ Cail Corishev

Thanks.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 08, 2017 7:18 PM  

@116
It is difficult to imagine that Google will continue to innovate

I'm trying to think of an innovation from Google in the last 2 to 5 years. Help me out, here.

Longer term, the Google ranking was a clever algo. Making their computers available via GoogleDrive and Docs has been popular, but not monetizable (I defer to dh on such things).

When the convergence really got going, the innovation stopped. It always happens.

Blogger Abdul August 08, 2017 7:28 PM  


@9 Someone posted The Psychopath's Bible on /pol/ recently and it reads just like the MO of some "activist" businessmen I know. (Atari sounds familiar too...)

@30 Once the fog lifts you find many of these people were never your friends in the first place.

@108 The only Google account I use is for here and to filter spam from my forwarded university alumni account, which I used for years on Usenet and gets hundreds a day.

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2017 10:03 PM  

What are the alternatives for email? I have Yahoo and Gmail, both accounts for so long and I have so much stored there I don't want a new email, but I don't care for either company and would rather not.

I have an email from my ISP, Comcast, but that's just for account purposes. I'd rather not do business with Comcast either but they're the only game in my town.

Set up my own server?


Actually .... I'd recommend this. It's an investment in time to learn, and you have to sacrifice some sanity to the Penguin gods, but why not become a first class citizen of the internet?

Running a server is actually a lot of fun. I have two: One through a hosting service called bluehost.com (linode.com looks like another good one), and one on a random box in my house. Bluehost costs me order $100/year, less than some people spend on world of warcraft. Unlike the time sunk into an MMO, everything on my server actually was created by me, and the skills learned teach you a lot about how the internet goes together and actually works. Bluehost allows the creation of arbitrary numbers of e-mail accounts and management of the memory used on the server.

(Anonymous)

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2017 10:08 PM  

Also, if you start and run a site, in addition to being able to put anything you want on it (not just the standard blog software - there is a whole raft of internet software out there - chatrooms, paper servers (useful for school), anything you can bind to a port: it's entirely yours. You can create soft backups of everything on it. You'll never have to answer to a bunch of Maoist punks until they go full Maoist in person. You can have your cloud server and also have it be *your* cloud server.

Take a trip down memory lane and discover what it meant to own a computer back before everyone piled all the products of their creativity on a few monopolist servers. (Also, run into all the technical headaches :-P But that's part of the fun with the right mindset.)

OpenID frankluke August 09, 2017 12:19 AM  

Had a bad run-in with Adwords at work recently. Programmer, and I was doing some DATETIME parsing and data manipulation. Google took all my searches for "date functions" and decided I needed to see ads for dating sites. At work.

"No fake profiles!" "Women will call you!"

OpenID Sidehill Dodger August 09, 2017 12:33 AM  

Midnight Avenue J wrote:What are the alternatives for email? I have Yahoo and Gmail, both accounts for so long and I have so much stored there I don't want a new email, but I don't care for either company and would rather not.
...

Set up my own server?


Maybe it's because I was there when Algor invented the internet, but the naiveté of today's users about how e-services like email or remote data storage work just makes my jaw drop. Actually, it's mostly not technological ignorance, but ignorance of the basic principles of business and commercial transactions. It's as though because it's "done with a computer" the ordinary rules of human nature and commerce don't apply.

A large segment of the pupulation seems to be scarfing down what they think are free lunches. Look, if someone offers to perform a "free" service for you, it stands to reason that he is benefiting from this relationship in some way. You ought to ask yourself what those benefits are, and what they are really costing you.

In the case of email or data storage services (euphemistically known as "the Cloud"), you are giving up control over your private correspondence and whatever data you entrust to the "free" service. To whom are you surrendering this control? Certainly you are giving it to the up-front purveyor of the freebies--most likely Google. And you are also giving it to the real customers of Google--data mining companies, advertising agencies, purveyors of goods, NGOs, PACs...and various governments.

If you enter into a commercial agreement with a service provider, then this is a business arrangement, and is governed by some sort of understanding that both parties will profit equally from the arrangement. (Or at least that is the ideal). There may be a formal contract written by lawyers, but at the very least there is the implied contract that the service provider will do certain things for you, and that in return you will pay him money. The very fact that you have paid the provider money puts him under an obligation to perform. If he fails to do what he agreed to, there are legal remedies to which you can resort. And because you are paying money, you are likely to scrutinize the agreement you have entered into with at least some care. The act of paying out money raises your awareness that something of value is at stake. In fact, it's not just the money: if you are paying out money for data services, then you know that your data is worth something!

Article too long--part 2 follows

OpenID Sidehill Dodger August 09, 2017 12:34 AM  

Part 2:

Contrast this with the free lunch: the "benefactor" is not bound by a mutual and fair contract--no, YOU are bound by something called the Terms of Service (TOS), which spells out the provider's rights and privileges in mind-killing detail, while making clear the utter futility and dreary consequences should you ever even think of disputing whatever he chooses to do.

People accept this because they believe that they are getting something for nothing. Google (or Microsoft, or whoever) is giving them freebies. It would be small-minded to cavil, wouldn't it?

Perhaps...if you were truly giving away nothing of value, and receiving some value in return. Consider carefully: is your private correspondence truly worth nothing? Is your private data without value? If that is so, why do you even bother writing? Why bother owning a computer? You are wasting electricity.

Consider also who benefits. Even if you don't value your privacy, there are agencies who are willing to pay for your email and whatever data you consider worth keeping. Who are they? Do you really want to do them favors? How certain are you that Google and the third parties who contract with Google for access to your data will not use it to do you or your friends harm?

I don't know about you, but I have never used such free services for my private or business purposes. Here is what I do:

1. I register my own domains. This is done through a domain registrar who provides this and related services in exchange for a quite reasonable fee. I pay a little extra so that my real name as domain owner is hidden, and can't be found by simple whois search. (GoDaddy.com is the company I have used for this.)

2. I use a web hosting and email service (in my case, again GoDaddy.com). They give me a couple of hundred email addresses using my domain name. Again, I have to pay for this--I think it's about $80 per year.

3. They also give me a couple of gig of email storage space, but it doesn't really matter because I don't leave my email sitting on their server for more than 24 hours anyway--I download it to my computer using the POP 3 protocol, and send it using good old SMTP.
4. Cloud storage...uh, why would I want that? Disk space is so incredibly cheap, I've got 8 Terabytes of disk connected to my PC via USB 3.1. Why should I send my backups, collected e-books, articles, music, etc. etc. across the internet and have it stored on somebody else's drives?

There are plenty of alternatives. But they require you to do the honest thing: do the research, then pay some money.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2017 12:46 AM  

Sidehill Dodger wrote:Look, if someone offers to perform a "free" service for you,
TL:DR
If you are not paying for an Internet service, you are not the customer. You are the product.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 09, 2017 1:11 AM  

Cloud storage...uh, why would I want that?

Heh. I had to laugh the other day when I saw someone explaining how he downloads videos to his PC, converts them to audio podcasts -- and then uploads them to a cloud service so he can listen to them on his phone which was sitting right there next to his PC.

People have so much bandwidth now that they have to find dumb ways to use it.

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot August 09, 2017 1:27 AM  

Mostly on-topic but slightly off-topic: is the code base for Android in a state where it could be forked and maintained post-Google?

I think it's becoming interesting to start talking about the holes that large companies are going to leave behind. What's post-Apple going to look like? How about post-Amazon?

If you can fork-and-forget, it's less of a worry.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 09, 2017 1:59 AM  

@128,

The Android OS is open source, so yes, you can take it and use it in a non-Google product, and several projects are doing or have done that. The Google apps, however -- Gmail, Maps, Play Store, Docs, etc. -- are proprietary. So you can take Android and make it work on your device, but you'll have to come up with other apps and a way to get them.

Also, the name "Android" is trademarked by Google, so if you want to call your Android-running device an Android device, you'll have to license the name from them.

There are alternatives. I've heard you can get an Ubuntu phone in Europe. There's a fork of Android called Replicant that is trying to replace all the proprietary stuff. Google (and Apple) managed to confuse and dominate the market for a while, but their control is slipping. I figure it's just a matter of time until your phone OS is as open as a good PC OS.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 09, 2017 3:20 AM  

dh wrote:Now, state of the art is that you are tracked, because of Google's pervasive network, across hundreds of thousands of sites. Google claims credit for a sale if you come close to an item, and the later buy it. They are able to track you through something like 60% of the web, with that number ticking up more and more each month.
And this is why one of your Firefox/Palemoon plug-ins is Google Disconnect.

I used to have a hosts file that did a lot more, until some worthless "antivirus" deleted it w/o asking and locked the directory to the point where I can't figure out how to unlock it.

@82  That's another element of privacy enhancement:  keeping data from advertisers.

@108  I report a shitload of them.

Cail Corishev wrote:the name "Android" is trademarked by Google
If they haven't trademarked "Clonedroid", "Forkdroid" and "Yourdroid" (and dozens of others), you have a clear route of entrance to flush Google out.

Blogger Vikki Wilson August 09, 2017 4:46 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Vikki Wilson August 09, 2017 4:48 AM  

"MEME GENDERING"
wow. Saying "You will make me commit suicide" is passive aggression taken to the level of psychosis.

The fact that this is expressed as POLITICAL speech in the public sphere is mind-boggling.

Blogger Jimmy The Freak August 09, 2017 11:32 AM  

Shimshon wrote:"A Really Smart Guy’s Response To A Smart Guy’s Memo Accidentally Explains Why Modern Software Is Utter Garbage"

http://jackbaruth.com/?p=7152

I can't say I've heard of Jack Baruth before. But I like his fisking of Yonatan Zunger ...



The part that stood out in the linked post is:

"Mr. Zunger is a very smart man, and he is a scientist to boot. But here’s the thing about modern scientists: they are only trained focus on very small things. The days of the Victorian gentleman chemist are past us now. All of the big ideas that could possibly come to a classically-educated man relaxing on the Louis-Quatorze-era chair in his family estate’s library have been discovered. Today’s science is done by putting laser-like attention on finite areas of effort."

Maybe this is why we have lost the spirit of innovation in the US. People no longer see the forest for the trees. They are too busy obsessing about their hyper-focused specialty that they no longer understand how the pieces fit together to form Big Ideas. And the people that can fit the pieces together don't ave the right credentials to be taken seriously. Now and then you have someone who "Gets Lucky" and forces their Big Idea through. This is the problem with credentialism.

Blogger James Dixon August 09, 2017 1:01 PM  

> There's a fork of Android called Replicant that is trying to replace all the proprietary stuff.

There are several alternatives to Android. How many of them will break your contract with your carrier I can't say. https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-cyanogenmod-121679

Anonymous Quartermaster August 09, 2017 1:28 PM  

But, but,.....don't be evil.

They went full retard, tho, and are evil to their core.

Blogger Shimshon August 10, 2017 4:35 AM  

The problem with the phone software stack isn't really the OS layer, despite the current pathetic state of open source efforts. It's the baseband. It's closed, all the way down. It's like Intel's Management Engine, but worse.

Blogger Fen August 10, 2017 11:48 PM  

Odd. Last week I realized most the hyperbole at CNN, MSNBC etc is to boost ratings for the advertisers. Even at the expense of national security.

Now I see that Google is also enslaved to advertisers.

Why aren't we hamstringing the advertising companies? Seems like they are causing the most trouble.

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