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Wednesday, August 09, 2017

Government theft

The federal government is literally the biggest thief in the USA. In fact, it steals more than all the private sector thieves combined. It now steals the equivalent of the GDP of Lichtenstein every year. "Rapacious" doesn't even begin to describe it.

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87 Comments:

Blogger Lovekraft August 09, 2017 8:12 AM  

Hearing Molyneux lay down this concept - taxation is theft enforced by state thugs - brings a lot of our frustration to the core.

How so many groups acting as morality police essentially are doing so with veiled threat. Hardly something to invoke respect.

Blogger RedMoonJournal August 09, 2017 8:15 AM  

The Institute for Justice is one of the organizations working to stop civil asset forfeitures.

http://ij.org/report/policing-for-profit/

Anonymous Liberty Mike August 09, 2017 8:21 AM  

Meanwhile, the GE's AG wants more asset forfeiture.

Anonymous Starbuck August 09, 2017 8:22 AM  

Wow, my dad was right after all. I just assumed he was. He told me several times that the government doesn't like competition. The older you get...

Blogger Odin Indaway August 09, 2017 8:24 AM  

What triggered the pattern of confiscation from 2011-14? Theft on steroids in 2011, then about a billion dollar drop 12-13 followed by about 1.5 billion rebound 13-14.

Anonymous grayman August 09, 2017 8:41 AM  

Good morning foul minions!

I've been using the following wiki tool for project management activities is a small business.

https://tettra.co/

Any suggestions for a better wiki option for a small business? The wiki approach has been very successful so far.

Anonymous ~A August 09, 2017 8:45 AM  

grayman - We've used Nuclino (reports, knowledge, etc) + Trello (tasks management) successfully, might want to have a look at that.

Blogger liberranter August 09, 2017 8:47 AM  

And in other breaking, earth-shattering news, the sun rose in the east this morning ...

Blogger Phillip George August 09, 2017 8:50 AM  

better money than children.
the Podesta's and ClintonFoundation went after both.

Anonymous Rocklea August 09, 2017 8:53 AM  

"And in other breaking, earth-shattering news, the sun rose in the east this morning ..."

It's been seized for the part it played in drug production.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 August 09, 2017 9:02 AM  

Rocklea wrote:"And in other breaking, earth-shattering news, the sun rose in the east this morning ..."

It's been seized for the part it played in drug production.


It's been seized without a warrant, which is illegal.

I know we live in a post-Constitutional country, but if we want our government to return to nationalist roots, we have to uphold the standards of the Constitution and impress them upon our leaders.

Also, notice that the spike happens under the Obama administration.

Anonymous Rocklea August 09, 2017 9:04 AM  

Enabling the photosynthesis of a proscribed substance. Open and shut. No need to gather evidence and go to trial, everybody knows it's guilty.

Blogger CynicalMan August 09, 2017 9:06 AM  

The fact of the matter is; the US government is the largest criminal enterprise on the planet. And if we are alone, in the universe.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy August 09, 2017 9:07 AM  

Odin Indaway wrote:What triggered the pattern of confiscation from 2011-14? Theft on steroids in 2011, then about a billion dollar drop 12-13 followed by about 1.5 billion rebound 13-14.
No, the graph shows one data point for each year, with a line connecting them. 2011 had the same amount of asset forfeiture as 2010; the spikes were in 2012 and 2014.

Based on the timing, I would guess that the Obama administration was quietly using asset forfeiture to suppress conservative political activity. The (((press))) reported on their targeting of ‘structured transactions’, i.e. any small shop owner who made regular deposits of less than $10,000 in cash into a bank, with asset forfeiture; in retrospect, it would be surprising if Obama's goons hadn't been trying to bias that toward stealing from Republican supporters. (For example, the Obama administration did carry out more deportations than Bush had, but Obama was hunting for law-abiding immigrants who had made honest mistakes on their paperwork, or who could be falsely accused of having done so.) But since the political component of the asset forfeiture conspiracy wasn't as obvious as in e.g. the IRS's activities, no one with a big enough audience to matter caught on.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 09, 2017 9:09 AM  

"if we want our government to return to nationalist roots, we have to uphold the standards of the Constitution and impress them upon our leaders."

By "impress" I take it you mean bullets. Most of the time nothing else the common man can do will leave any significant lasting impression on career mobstiticians.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 09, 2017 9:12 AM  

Rocklea wrote:It's been seized for the part it played in drug production.

This is a half truth and rhetoric at best. A large majority of it may have been legitimately seized from illegal operations. On the other hand there have been numerous examples of it being seized with very flimsy evidence, and no trial or warrant. The Obama administration seized several small businesses funds which effectively closed the business down. They made allegations that it appeared the account activity was similar to money laundering but they had no real evidence other than the deposit and withdrawal patterns. The major problem is that legitimate businesses fit that pattern and now you are putting them out of business and putting the onus on them to prove that they aren't doing anything illegal. This would be a major burden to a business to just afford the legal help, it is compounded by the fact that they don't have access to the money needed to pay that legal help.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 09, 2017 9:25 AM  

@16. basementhomebrewer, that joke whooshed over both of you guys' heads.

He was saying the sun was seized. Sol.

Anonymous Rocklea August 09, 2017 9:26 AM  

Ra Ra Ra, lol

Blogger Stilicho August 09, 2017 9:33 AM  

@Rocklea, there have been numerous seizures based upon the mere fact that a citizen had cash. Period. It's been reported that many police departments are trained to specifically look for cash without anything else to justify a search and seizure, then the victim has to go to court ($$$$) and try to prove that he is innocent of any crime.

It doesn't matter if it was developed as a tool to fight drugs, it is being used indiscriminately and illegally.

But, hey, what's the point of working for the govt if you can't prey upon the people you are supposed to serve?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein August 09, 2017 9:36 AM  


"And in other breaking, earth-shattering news, the sun rose in the east this morning ..."

It's been seized for the part it played in drug production.


Not yet, Chief.

Word down on the Rez/Kibbutz is that the God-Emperor will have a little something for that global warming SOB come August 21.

Anonymous Killua August 09, 2017 9:37 AM  

Anyone knows what are the main reasons for asset seizures?

@6 That seems like a good tool. I use workflowy for tasks/time management.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 9:40 AM  

"Civil Asset Forfeiture" is modern Newspeak sophistry at its best.

That any man or woman can, with a straight face, break the link between property and ownership, thus positing that a "TAKING" of property isn't a taking, is prima facie evidence of their evil, and they quite literally are guilty of a capital crime.

Taking property (by definition something that a person traded irreplaceable hours of their life to justify acquire or create) is fractional murder and should be treated accordingly

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 9:41 AM  

Justly, not justify.

Anonymous roughcoat August 09, 2017 9:41 AM  

Police departments usually get to keep most of what they seize. What could possibly go wrong?

Blogger dienw August 09, 2017 9:48 AM  

Odin Indaway wrote:What triggered the pattern of confiscation from 2011-14? Theft on steroids in 2011, then about a billion dollar drop 12-13 followed by about 1.5 billion rebound 13-14.

2012 was a campaign year: Obama's re-election; but this pattern does not occur in the other campaign years. What was unique about Obama's re-election campaign year? In fact, what explains the previous year's dramatic rise?

Blogger Nobody of Consequence August 09, 2017 9:52 AM  

Once again: The Constitution delegates six (6), just six, police powers to Congress. Because these six are explicitly granted, all others not granted are withheld from the federal government. If those not granted are not withheld, then the Framers of the Constitution were truly ignorant since they did not understand that powers were implicitly granted and they wasted time arguing for the inclusion of explicitly granted police powers. Or ... there are no implicit police powers and the feds are simply acting unconstitutionally in 99% of their criminal punishments.

The six:
punishment for counterfeiting current coin and securities.
punishment for piracy on the High Seas.
punishment for felonies on the High Seas.
punishment for offenses against the law of nations.
punishment of treason.
punishment used to secure copyright and patent.

We might add the power to enforce the 13th amendment. The other amendment enforcement clauses are limited to actions taken by state governments.

ALL other police powers are retained by the States or the People as per the 10th amendment. The feds have no legitimate authority of eminent domain or police power of forfeiture except in the above 6 explicitly granted areas. Once People know that nothing will change because the People are pussies.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2017 9:54 AM  

It's not stealing if they were only letting you borrow it in the meantime, that you may sacrifice it freely unto the GDP. Worship not thou the GDP per capita, for the True GDP is a jealous God.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2017 9:54 AM  

"Worship not ye"

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass August 09, 2017 9:55 AM  

@5. Two years into Dear Leader's reign (PBUH) it was probably his attempt (PBUH) to intimidate enemies and the press. Anybody remember the wiretapping of AP and others under him (PBUH)?

@19 That's what gets me about police: they're trained to be suspicious just because you use cash. That extends to the feds, including DEA. Given that I'm in the fed pipeline (Border Patrol) I wonder how I'll be trained...

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass August 09, 2017 9:56 AM  

Also asset forefeiture delenda est

Anonymous Tommy Chong August 09, 2017 10:09 AM  

"It's not stealing if they were only letting you borrow it in the meantime, that you may sacrifice it freely unto the GDP. Worship not thou the GDP per capita, for the True GDP is a jealous God."

Hey man, that's cool, I'm down with the burnt offerings, no what I'm sayin.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 10:15 AM  

We get the "government" our neighbors tolerate, or to which they acquiesce.

CAF is parallel to the income tax, especially any tax that is not the same, citizen to citizen. It stems from the concept that wealth is "owned" by the state (which is impossible, ownership is defined by exercise of control, so the elected officials & bureaucrats "own" state "property") and is amplified in evil by the concept of democracy itself, a kissing cousin of communism in its embrace of the idea that under democracy, the state is us and we are the state (via periodically choosing its management.)

CAF is another elephantine signal of how far we've fallen from Blackstone's position, that the judge's role is to discover the Natural law, not to create it out of whole (ideological) cloth.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 10:17 AM  

CAF tells us the state reigns supreme, its managers are demigods and we are their servants.

Anonymous BBGKB August 09, 2017 10:29 AM  

We need to keep it till TRUMP's last day. Leftists will never fear the whip if they are the only ones willing to use it. Even Project Veritas was happy to see peons slapped on wrist while the DNC kept all its ill gotten gains in the Battleground Texas bust. Lets seize the 33tons of Ukraine's Gold from Soros.

And in other breaking, earth-shattering news, the sun rose in the east this morning ...

Pope Commie calls for the raising of the tower of babel
http://yournewswire.com/pope-francis-world-government-rule/
Pope Francis: World Government Must Rule U.S. ‘For Their Own Good’

Anonymous fop August 09, 2017 10:33 AM  

FEDs: "By law, depositing $10,000 or more is suspicious activity and we can take your money."

Citizen: "I only deposited $9,000."

FED: "Yeah, well, that was kind of suspicious too so we took it anyway."

Anonymous BBGKB August 09, 2017 10:34 AM  

29 Given that I'm in the fed pipeline (Border Patrol) I wonder how I'll be trained

Did you see that case where wetbacks won ghetto lottery for telling someone to drink what he claimed was apple juice that turned out to be liquid meth killing him? Jews said they should have tested everything instead of trusting a wetback at his word.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-california/sd-me-cbp-meth-death-20170317-story.html

Anonymous Grayman August 09, 2017 10:49 AM  

Speaking of government theft..... With total retail sales at $5.5 trillion, heath-care now consumes 60% of retail sales and it is retail sales that are the backbone of the US economy that is holding up the entire world economy

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/obamacare-is-officially-destroying-the-economy-has-reached-60-of-total-retail-sales/


Even if the apparent top in bonds doesn't trigger an implosion in the next 6 months or so healthcare in combination with pensions will in 2020 or so.

Blogger OGRE August 09, 2017 10:53 AM  

The actual amount of asset forfeiture nationwide is likely much higher than the graph indicates. The graph states that it measures only assets seized by federal law enforcement. The vast majority of asset forfeitures are initiated by state level LEOs. But many states have limitations and regulations on what their police and prosecutors can do with seized assets, so they often transfer assets to the DoJ as part of its "equitable sharing" program. This very positively named program treats the seizure as if it were done by the feds so as to avoid state level restrictions on distribution of funds; the DoJ keeps a fraction of the proceeds and gives the rest right back to the state level agencies (usually a 20/80 split). So all the statistics are very murky as to the actual amount of asset forfeiture in the US; the lines are intentionally very blurred so it is difficult to determine who is seizing what and to where the proceeds are distributed.

Also its not clear how the value of assets are ascertained. Cash obviously is given its face value, but vehicles and real property and other major assets must be auctioned off or transferred to government ownership. Auctioned property never gets anywhere close to its market value, and many of these auctions are held almost secretively to allow the LEOs and their friends and family to acquire the property cheaply. Thus the market value of seized assets could be much higher than what the DoJ's records indicate.

Blogger James Dixon August 09, 2017 10:57 AM  

> Meanwhile, the GE's AG wants more asset forfeiture.

One of the few areas where I disagree strongly with Jeff Sessions.

Anonymous FP August 09, 2017 10:59 AM  

Some videos for any doubters on CAF, courtesy of the drug task forces in TN:

Note the cop's interview in the first video... especially this: "The safest place to put your money, if its legitimate is in a bank account". Oh the lulz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsIGtSRDy54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avSIsaI24fk

Anonymous Grayman August 09, 2017 11:10 AM  

@38 Ogre,

From that perspective increase the seizure estimates by 50% as a guesstimate, or about 2.25 billion

Blogger dvdivx August 09, 2017 11:22 AM  

The more diversity you see in government the more of this you will see. Its nothing new to those who have lived in third world s**tholes. This will get far worse as the government needs money for social security it doesn't have, flood of mudshark sprogs working for uncle Sam and amoral third worlders working for uncle Sam. Small business will be hit hardest along with whites trying to leave except Jews holding Israeli passports of course.

Blogger Elder Son August 09, 2017 11:22 AM  

...try to prove that he is innocent of any crime.

That his CASH is innocent of any crime.

You don't have to be accused of a crime and arrested to have your cash seized. Just the mere thought that your money is guilty of a conspiracy before or after the fact.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 11:25 AM  

@ fop, depositing $10k or more isn't a problem (unless someone who has evil in their heart can construe you did so in small increments to avoid triggering a CTR.)

It's getting "caught" with $10k, or $3k, or $40k, or $2m in cash on your way to or from the bank, that's the problem.

CAF is part of the war on cash, a subsidiary of the Elimination of Privacy program in the USA and almost all countries today.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 11:31 AM  

Cash (or other property) can be accused & convicted of committing a crime same as a gun commits a shooting.

Such is the reasoning of petulant children who seek to blame inanimate objects, imbuing them with magical powers.

We're surrounded and ruled by Perpetual Children in adult facades.

Magic talismans. Sounds suspiciously like Magic Dirt. Only it's often people who fancy themselves conservative who favor CAF.

Blogger Serge_Tomiko August 09, 2017 11:35 AM  

Since only the United States of America has the sole legal, sovereign right to create United States of America Dollars, it seems irrational to claim any such legal action is "theft". It is perhaps bad public policy, and bad law, but it is not theft. When the United States of America takes your money as a collection of a debt, whether as a tax, penalty, or civil forfeiture, the money simply ceases to exist. The United States of America does not "take" money. It destroys it and creates it as public policy dictates.

It seems Vox Day still hasn't extricated the libertarian madness from his brain yet.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 11:37 AM  

I'd sincerely like to know how often the clowns seize assets of well-educated whites who clearly have the means to beat them in court.

What are MY risks. This is the pertinent question. (Some states are clearly worse for this than others. I expect agents of the state to become far worse in their highwayman behavior once the Greater Depression gets going. We're already well on our way to importing Mexican Police Criminality.)

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 11:39 AM  

Serge, let me confiscate YOUR money & YOUR car, boat, house, farmland, etc., and then play your sophistic word games.

Anonymous BBGKB August 09, 2017 11:42 AM  

What are MY risks. This is the pertinent question.

My risks should be exponentially lower than a wetback with MS-13 facial tattoos.

Anonymous fop August 09, 2017 11:48 AM  

@ fop, depositing $10k or more isn't a problem...To the contrary.

Blogger bw August 09, 2017 11:48 AM  

It doesn't matter if it was developed as a tool to fight drugs

You mean the Drugs Inc. that the Government Itself traffics in and supports and maintains for the Families and always has?
Government workers are Evil.

Blogger Serge_Tomiko August 09, 2017 11:49 AM  

dc.sunsets: This is not sophistry. It is simply describing reality as it is, and not how you imagine it to be. Comparing civil forfeiture to burglary is as stupid as libertarians claiming taxation is theft.

Money is a legal concept. End of story. If you don't like how the laws work, focus on that. There is no private and public sector. There is the ruling sovereignty and the territory and people over which it exerts political power.

The problem we have here is that repeating these irrational analogies continues to compel libertarians to believe their madness, and it makes it impossible for them to understand how money works. Most importantly, libertarians have no conception of political power and hence cannot formulate any realistic plans for the future. Since money is one of the few nearly universal manifestations of sovereign power since the foundation of the very first city states, failure to understand how it works means you cannot possibly exercise any political power.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 09, 2017 11:53 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:I'd sincerely like to know how often the clowns seize assets of well-educated whites who clearly have the means to beat them in court.

What are MY risks. This is the pertinent question.


They tend to target out of state cars traveling on interstates. Being white isn't much of a defense, see Terrence Huff.

And unless they take a large amount of cash, getting it back will cost more than it is worth once you pay a lawyer and court filing fees. Plus you have the bond you have to put up. But the state will be nice and give you half of your money back after you sign this NDA.
Being white won't protect you from snitches fingering your house or a wrong number on the search warrant.

This was taken from an Oklahoma study:
"Of those cases, 59 percent sought amounts of under $1,000, and 88 percent sought amounts under $10,000. The median amount was $801. In hundreds of cases the amount was less than $100, but most of those also involved seizure of a vehicle or other property."

I have seen stats that show other states being in line with that.

If you go to gun or car shows you will notice most of the business is done in cash. So a white guy carrying 10k or so on his way to buy a car or to browse some gun collections could lose his cash pretty quickly if he gets pulled over.

Anonymous User August 09, 2017 11:54 AM  

Wanting to participate in an economy that has public spending without taxation is like wanting to program in an environment using malloc() without free().

Also, if you want to say taxation is theft, you also have to say interest is theft, since interest is nothing more than a private tax levied by the bank on users of its liabilities.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 11:56 AM  

Never consent to a search. Force them to bring the dog. Make it as difficult as possible.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab August 09, 2017 11:59 AM  

I suspect these numbers are vastly inflated. You cannot get the value from a seized property if it has been used for the storage and manufacture of drugs. Plus, a big number looks impressive.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 12:00 PM  

Interest is rent on capital. If I can charge rent on a D9, I can charge rent on the money to buy a D9.

The problem is banking. Creation of purchasing power sans-serif prior production of economic goods is quite literally fraud.

It is the charging of rent on water vapor, of a will-of-the-wisp. It's the most pervasive fraud in our lives.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab August 09, 2017 12:08 PM  

It's not the seizing, bad enough, that is the worst. You cannot use it while it is seized. If forfeiture of property is the punishment that's fine however the seizure should only come after a trial.

That would probably end most of it right there.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 12:09 PM  

Taxation is theft ONLY if you can live as a man on an island. In all other cases you WILL live in a social setting, and that ALWAYS comes with expensive strings attached.

You WILL live in a state of some kind, and your right to property will thus not be absolute.

You will have no choice but to owe something to someone. Whether it's a king, a manager, a homeowners association or any other required membership, it will cost you.

What is taken, how much, who decides and how it's apportioned are up for grabs (matters of moral and effectiveness debate), but it WILL exist unless you live alone on an island and even then you'll bear all the costs of defending it.

It is on this and the human nature issues that pure libertarianism fails.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 12:13 PM  

I object to CAF because it is rationalized with a childish lie.

The state takes too much as it is, IMO. The state takes in ways that harm society as a whole (progressive taxes are decivilizing.)

But that the state takes something is no longer objectionable to me. I just think the qty and manner are currently a disaster.

Blogger Robert What? August 09, 2017 12:22 PM  

Not to mention that the Sixteenth Amendment legalize government theft.

Blogger JaimeInTexas August 09, 2017 12:26 PM  

CAF is codified tyranny.

There are certain intetstate highways that are categorized as drug illegal alien smuggling corridors. Look it up.
When a cop stops you remember that you do not have to answer any questions. The moment the cop asks if you have cash on you, beware. Remember the questions "am I being detained or am I free to go?" and "what was your reason for stopping me?"
A cop on these corridors may have stopped you legitimately or will make something up.
Be respectfull but do not engage in chatter. You will say spmething you tjink innocuous but will give the reasonable suspicion.
Only do the minimal required by law.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 09, 2017 12:41 PM  

Interstate 40 runs East/West across Tennessee. There are several "Drug Tasks Forces" operating along it. They target West Coast vehicles headed West. The rationale is that WC cars going East are carrying the drugs. Cars going West have the cash.

Then it is "You don't mind if I walk my dog around your car do you? You don't have anything to hide?" "Well look at that, Revenoor alerted to your car, looks like I am gonna have to search it now." "All this cash, you got a paystub for it? Ok, I am gonna have to confiscate it. There was "shake" in your front floorboard. You have had pot in the car at some time." Of course the dog alerted on the signal from the cop and the pot residue was just debris from the last time you mowed your yard.

Anonymous TS August 09, 2017 12:50 PM  

"You WILL live in a state of some kind, and your right to property will thus not be absolute"

Does that include your person i.e., your body and soul? Beware the slippery slope.

Anonymous Liberty Mike August 09, 2017 12:52 PM  

No, libertarianism, at least the kind subscribed to by the likes of Hoppe and Woods, is far more cognizant of human nature.

Writ large, that man is evil is not a reason to give other men the power to rape, rob, and pillage.

Human nature dictates that the very worst of us will seek power. It is not the best and the brightest. It is not the inventors, the innovators, the tinkerers, the entrepreneurs, or the creators, or the ruggedly independent.

Human nature also dictates that the cucks, and the flag wavers, and the boot lickers, and the fly-over lovers, and the clovers, and the good government types, and the civic nationalists, will all salute those who wield such power.

Libertarianism, properly understood, recognizes this all too well.

Blogger Serge_Tomiko August 09, 2017 12:55 PM  

"Also, if you want to say taxation is theft, you also have to say interest is theft, since interest is nothing more than a private tax levied by the bank on users of its liabilities."

Excellent point. It is telling that libertarians are most apt to repeat a lie, which has never been true, that banks lend money and are due their interest as some sort of fee. It is extraordinary this is repeated today, when the word is very much out that the vast majority of money is created by banks and very little is created free of interest in the form of deficit spending.

The reality is banks were central to the rise of more complex societies because it is impossible for a central government to allocate capital over a large area. This was especially true in the past before advanced communications.

The power to create capital is delegated to banks, and their profit incentive - interest - is enforced by the sovereignty's civil court system.

This is what I was getting at before about misunderstanding money and public policy. In a democracy, money is obfuscated. In the not so distant past, your money had the likeness of the King emblazoned on it. You knew who it belonged to. Today, almost no one knows.

The reality is that banks are agents of the state. No one has yet devised a better means of decentralized capital creation and allocation, but this power delegated to the banks can be modified at any time.

The proper course of action is not to come up with castles in the sky of some ridiculous Hayekian fantasy of how banks should be. The proper course of action is political. Who should rule? By what right do they rule? And to what end? It remains the question of the good in the very classical sense.

Just as we should question the purpose of civil forfeiture, and how it benefits society, we should also be questioning how banks use this extraordinary power to create money and impose a future interest obligation.

Blogger James Dixon August 09, 2017 1:17 PM  

> Even if the apparent top in bonds doesn't trigger an implosion in the next 6 months or so healthcare in combination with pensions will in 2020 or so.

Trying to set a date within anything close to 10 years or so is a fool's errand. There are simply too many variables and the final triggering event is always unknown.

> Money is a legal concept.

Money is a concept, yes. But it does not have to be legal. Black markets and alternative currencies have existed throughout recorded history.

> Wanting to participate in an economy that has public spending without taxation...

Sounds right to me. So, how about we do away with as much public spending as humanly possible?

> Also, if you want to say taxation is theft, you also have to say interest is theft, since interest is nothing more than a private tax levied by the bank on users of its liabilities.

I can decide whether I borrow money from a bank. I can't decide whether to pay taxes or not.

> If forfeiture of property is the punishment that's fine however the seizure should only come after a trial.

That's the way the concept was originally sold. That wasn't how it was implemented.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 09, 2017 1:50 PM  

This whole thing is really scary. And Sessions loving this concept is even worse. Unless he's going to use this against pizza monsters and NWO freaks, it's not a good sign.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 09, 2017 3:04 PM  

TS wrote:"You WILL live in a state of some kind, and your right to property will thus not be absolute"

Does that include your person i.e., your body and soul? Beware the slippery slope.


"Your person."

Ever hear of conscription?

My point: The level of "takings," the form of takings and from whom they are taken are all legitimate topics of debate.

CRIMINALS make those decisions in the dark, autocratically. Victims are those who had no voice whatsoever, and usually didn't even know they were at risk of exaction.

Welcome to the USA, where Joe Citizen commits "three felonies a day." To those who rule, this is a feature, not a bug.

Blogger Chris Ritchie August 09, 2017 3:35 PM  

Literally made a change in plans specifically to avoid the chance I would get pulled over and be grilled over having cash in my car. Never mind that it was cash to close on a house. Never mind I could prove where it all came from. I knew I wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. So I didn't subject myself to even the possibility of robbery from the King's Sherrif. I made other plans and did not carry cash with me. Oh, and yes, I did happen to get pulled over on the Interstate by a Sherrif after midnight in north Georgia. "Failure to maintain lane." Yep. I'm sure that was it. Good thing I didn't look like I had any money to steal so I was let off with a warning. "Thanks"

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2017 3:50 PM  

Liberty Mike wrote:Libertarianism, properly understood, recognizes this all too well.
And yet, by and large, Libertarians so not.

Blogger James Dixon August 09, 2017 3:53 PM  

> My point: The level of "takings," the form of takings and from whom they are taken are all legitimate topics of debate.

Yes. But it's a debate in which we will not be a voice.

Blogger James Dixon August 09, 2017 3:54 PM  

> Literally made a change in plans specifically to avoid the chance I would get pulled over and be grilled over having cash in my car. Never mind that it was cash to close on a house.

Isn't that what a certified check is for?

Anonymous Grayman August 09, 2017 4:11 PM  

Who knows if it will continue to grow, but cryptocurrency looks like it may have the ability to give traditional banking a run for its money, literally and figuratively. Even if crypto never gains full dominance it is established enough that it already offers alternative routes around traditional banking and its tendrils continue to grow. The fact that there are many different types of crypto makes the field even more robust.

Blogger Jay in DC August 09, 2017 4:21 PM  

"I'd sincerely like to know how often the clowns seize assets of well-educated whites who clearly have the means to beat them in court."


I can answer this one for you. They will seize at will for the slightest reason or provocation because even if they lose it is just more wealth transfer on the taxpayer's dime.

I sent a text msg to a co-worker that was so absurdly over the top it was an obvious joke. But I made the mistake of sending that message to a NAM.

The cost of it that mistake has been life altering. Sensing an opportunity to stick it to the white boy, the person ran that text msg up the flagpole to management. Who also being mostly different shades of brown took this as a clear & present danger.

Within a few day at 0 dark 30 I had a SWAT team blowing the lock off my new front door (new house) in a nice little suburbia with a 12G breaching round. The Stasi continued their little terror raid through my home pointing select-fire weapons at me in the dark as I slept with my family thinking they were in a waking nightmare.

They got a warrant easily because I was a white guy with a firearm which meant "workplace shooter" despite having not only no history of violence but also working as an adjunct for LE myself for a decade.

So the terror squad came in with a warrant for my phone (The source of the threat) and walked out with 15,000 worth of computers, firearms, unrelated tech gear, etc.

Not a bad score eh for a text message? I'm also now a convicted felon even though I committed this "felony" sitting on my couch armed with nothing more than a telephone.

My career options are a bit more uhh "limited" these days and before that I was a pretty high paid consultant.

This can, and will, happen to you white man especially if you dance with minorities in places like you and I live. (Sodom on Potomac)

Anonymous tublecane August 09, 2017 4:39 PM  

@46-"Since only Tue United States of America has the sole legal, sovereign right to create United States of America Dollars"

Are you nuts? Take a look at a dollar bill. Notice how it says "Federal Reserve Note." The Fed's monopoly on the issuance of legal tender was granted by the U.S. government. But the simple fact that the monopoly is held by a private cartel instead of the government itself demonstrates the falsehood of your assertion.

"When the United States of America takes your money as a collection of a debt, whether as a tax, penalty, or civil forfeiture..."

A tax can or penalty can construed as a debt, but not asset forfeiture. That is justified by the idea that property can suddenly not be property, and that it is "guilty until proven innocent." Which has nothing to do with debt.

"the money simply ceases to exist"

No.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl August 09, 2017 4:43 PM  

I see the chart goes up to 2014. This was the Obama-Holder era, where there wasn't any legitimate business that wasn't up for grabs through extortion.

Remember the gun owner in Montana who was a medical marijuana grower (legal there) that the Feds went after for something like 100 million dollars?

Then there was Gibson guitars who were on the hook for tens of millions for "using possibly illegal wood" or something.

Then there were farmers, truck drivers, hotel owners, delivery services, video stores, UPS, FedEx...

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 09, 2017 4:54 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2017 5:38 PM  

Grayman wrote:Even if crypto never gains full dominance it is established enough that it already offers alternative routes around traditional banking and its tendrils continue to grow.
Cryptocurrency is in a bubble right now. The entire value of crypto is in the secret nature of the transaction. That can and will be broken, and probably already has been. Not the encryption, the secrecy. Compromising the transaction points will yield enough information to connect almost every transaction to real persons at real IP addresses.
Sooner, rather than later, some agency will announce that they've cracked bitcoin (even though they haven't) and convict someone on transactions traced through the system, probably one of the "encrypt your PC and hold it hostage" bastards. The world will cheer, and bitcoin will be a novelty for hard-core Libertarians and gold fetishists.

Blogger Michael Maier August 09, 2017 7:38 PM  

I do not believe the stats at all. Hasn't it been an open secret for over a decade that the pigs are not reporting a significant percentage of crime on their stats/reports/logs?

Blogger JaimeInTexas August 09, 2017 8:01 PM  

BS. The loan is voluntarily sought by the borrower.
Interest and taxes are not remotely analogous.

Blogger JaimeInTexas August 09, 2017 8:03 PM  

Yes. But what bidness of the gov to force you out of cash transactions?

Blogger Michael Maier August 09, 2017 8:27 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> Literally made a change in plans specifically to avoid the chance I would get pulled over and be grilled over having cash in my car. Never mind that it was cash to close on a house.

Isn't that what a certified check is for?


Banks are crooks. And there is NOTHING illegal about cash.

It's bad enough we're forced to lick boots... comments like this make me think way too many love the flavour.

Blogger Serge_Tomiko August 09, 2017 8:55 PM  

"Are you nuts? Take a look at a dollar bill. Notice how it says "Federal Reserve Note." The Fed's monopoly on the issuance of legal tender was granted by the U.S. government. But the simple fact that the monopoly is held by a private cartel instead of the government itself demonstrates the falsehood of your assertion."

Libertardian conspiracy theories. You don't understand how banks function.

You're exactly the kind of sad case I am referring to. Legions of people, just like you, massively deluded.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the hell is on a piece of paper. 99% of all money is a number in a computer, a system, by the way, which is very much centralized within the Evil Fed.

Money is whatever the ruling sovereignty says it is.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2017 11:48 PM  

Serge_Tomiko wrote:Money is whatever the ruling sovereignty says it is.

No, money is whatever people will accept in exchange for goods or services.

Anonymous Raker Tooth August 10, 2017 12:15 AM  

I don't know if there's anything to this; but it's weird enough to mention. Earlier in the year, I got an email from Stansberry Digest, I'm on their mailing list. They were saying that the US government is planning to make their own ecurrency later in the year. I know that there are a million & 1 conspiracy theories out there, but this struck me as different. These people are concerned with investments, they only touch on political things if it can affect one's portfolio. I've been reading their emails for a couple years, and the CT's are not their thing. I've spent the last hour, at least, looking for the email, or a link, but couldn't find it.
A search did turn this up at what looks like the bitcoin site:
https://news.bitcoin.com/fedcoin-u-s-issue-e-currency/
Here's the weird part: Earlier, I watched a video about a guy showing pages from a book written in the late 1800's, two books actually, same author. I'm sure you've seen mention of the book somewhere; it's the one about young Barron Trump's adventures. In the book, he's giuded by a mentor named Don.
Still not the weird part...the other book is called "The last president". same author. There are a few strange parallels, nothing alarming, but this one caught my attention: the president in the book issues his own currency.
OK, maybe nothing to be concerned about, but I would kick myself it it did happen, and I didn't say anything.

Blogger James Dixon August 10, 2017 9:33 AM  

> It's bad enough we're forced to lick boots... comments like this make me think way too many love the flavour.

Well, if you want to risk several thousand dollars by carrying it on you, when there's a relatively low cost option that avoids the problem, that's your business.

> Banks are crooks.

The bank I deal with is locally owned with only half a dozen or so locations, all within a 50 mile or so radius. All of the board members and employees live in the area, and we know a couple of them.

They're no more crooks than any other business owner in the area. Their governing authority (the federal governemnt)? Yeah, they're crooks, and their policies may override our banks local decisions. But that's the system we all have to deal with.

> Money is whatever the ruling sovereignty says it is.

Really? And what if people start refusing to accept it in exchange for goods and services? What then?

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