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Monday, August 28, 2017

It appears diplomacy failed

North Korea fires a missile over Japan:
North Korea has fired a missile that passed over northern Japan today. The government's J-Alert text message warning system advised people in the area to take precautions and move to a 'sturdy building or basement'.

The Japanese military did not attempt to shoot down the missile, which passed over Japanese territory around 6.06am local time. It broke into three pieces off the coast of Hokkaido and landed in the Pacific Ocean, around 700 miles east of Cape Erimo, after travelling 1,700m in eight minutes. It is the first time North Korea has fired a projectile over Japan since 2009.

The launch, from Pyongyang, comes after Seoul's National Intelligence Service (NIS) told South Korean lawmakers at a closed door parliamentary session that it has detected signs of the secretive state preparing for another nuclear test at its Punggye-ri underground test site.
How fortunate that the USA has pledged to send more troops to Afghanistan. That should totally help, especially given the fact that the Navy is on stand-down due to its demonstrated inability to avoid deadly, high-speed cargo ships.

Labels:

149 Comments:

Blogger Salt August 28, 2017 6:44 PM  

Titan missiles work just fine.

Anonymous Killua August 28, 2017 6:46 PM  

We better start building bunkers in our basements.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 28, 2017 6:53 PM  

The Empire has one more good war left in it

Blogger Francis The Pope August 28, 2017 6:54 PM  

For diplomacy to fail one would first have to try diplomacy. US foreign policy is not diplomatic by any means, sanctions and threats are not the opposite to open war as many of the neocons/neoliberals seem to think.

Blogger pyrrhus August 28, 2017 6:58 PM  

The US can't deal effectively with IEDs in a 3d world country, or avoid cargo ships on the open seas, but it's ready for another war 6,000 miles away, sure it is..... I heard it from the Diversity Masters in the Pentagon....

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 28, 2017 7:00 PM  

It's Tex's fault for releasing Grimoire. We all knew the world would end but we were too caught up in the massive incline.

Damn you Tex!

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr August 28, 2017 7:03 PM  

Not sure a few thousand soldiers more or less will make a difference. From where I sit, our options are:

1. Do nothing and hope the problem goes away. Basically what we've been doing. Not working too well.

2. Aid the South Koreans and possibly Japan with the development of nuclear weapons and delivery systems. The thought of Japan with nuclear weapons is China's Great Big Nightmare.

3. Inform China that since they are North Korea's patron, we will hold China responsible for any nuclear attack. The Cuban Missile Crisis option. Nasty.

4. Cut a deal with China...they ease the Kim dynasty out, the US and South Korea are responsible for handling the humanitarian problems. This is my preferred option, especially with Option 2 as the Unpleasant Alternative.

5. Preemptive nuclear attack. A preemptive conventional attack won't be enough. Fallout will be nasty...and headed for Japan.

Anonymous Ages August 28, 2017 7:04 PM  

Considering the U.S. Navy is basically Japan's military, and the U.S. is required to basically treat Japan as U.S. territory where it comes to defense, and violating a country's airspace with a missile is an act of war...is it happening?

Anonymous Ages August 28, 2017 7:05 PM  

I think Trump now has justification to launch a limited but damaging conventional attack on NK military sites, reserving the right to go further if NK continues to escalate.

Blogger Ingot9455 August 28, 2017 7:08 PM  

@7 4. China is not ready for a deal, as too many companies connected to too many Party members make too much profit off of slave North Korean labor.

China did state that if North Korea strikes anyone first, they will step aside and cheer on any attack-back, which is actually great progress.

Anonymous glosoli August 28, 2017 7:09 PM  

And Goldman said: 'there shall be an Empire Of Chaos' and it shall do our bidding. And lo, a missile was reported in the East.

And many who saw reports of this missile did believe it, and did call for Kim to be destroyed, for he was surely a threat to the Empire, even as was his evil brother Saddam, with his weapons of technicolour destruction.

And Goldman did cause the Empire to destroy Kim, and install BIS usury and greed, and all was well in satan's lair once again.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 28, 2017 7:09 PM  

And Trump shall whack a few Chinese Banks next, more than likely.

There's a fascinating Old vs New Guard dynamic going on within Chinese leadership that we just don't know the details of from the outside. Expect some very interesting targeted tariffs/bans/lockouts of Chinese industries.

NK is China's dog on a leash. Trump isn't going to bother kicking the pooch when the owner is right there.

Blogger Ingot9455 August 28, 2017 7:09 PM  

Also there's that question - when do you try to shoot down one of their missiles? what happens if you screw it up the first time? Might be better not to try and soak one then counterattack overwhelmingly, than look incompetent and weak.

Blogger pyrrhus August 28, 2017 7:13 PM  

China might do a deal if the US agrees to demilitarize South Korea, and remove our X-Band radar. That would be a great deal for everyone except the Deep State....so it won't happen.

Blogger Dos Voltz August 28, 2017 7:14 PM  

The worm has turned.

Anonymous Incurvatus August 28, 2017 7:15 PM  

How fitting John McCain got plowed by the merchant.

Anonymous Were-Puppy August 28, 2017 7:15 PM  

Japan needs to be allowed to rearm itself.
We don't need to be dragged into this Asian conflict.
Too late now I suppose.

Anonymous Avalanche August 28, 2017 7:15 PM  

@9 limited but damaging conventional attack on NK military sites

TO be followed immediately by a massive conventional (OR nuke?!) barrage against Seoul? Maybe not our first best choice! (Or any choice at all?)

Anonymous Were-Puppy August 28, 2017 7:17 PM  

@12 Looking Glass
And Trump shall whack a few Chinese Banks next, more than likely.

There's a fascinating Old vs New Guard dynamic going on within Chinese leadership that we just don't know the details of from the outside. Expect some very interesting targeted tariffs/bans/lockouts of Chinese industries.
---

Did you see this ?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-told-john-kelly-to-bring-me-some-tariffs-report/article/2632708

Anonymous Ages August 28, 2017 7:21 PM  

Avalanche wrote:TO be followed immediately by a massive conventional (OR nuke?!) barrage against Seoul? Maybe not our first best choice! (Or any choice at all?)

If Cuba shot a missile over Florida, would we sit around and do nothing?

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 7:21 PM  

What's in it for us?

Shouldn't U.S. policy and actions have some benefit for the American people?

Anonymous glosoli August 28, 2017 7:25 PM  

@21,

It's just business, very profitable, especially to those Goldmans boyz short the markets at this seasonally volatile period.
Bang, I just saw another rocket, there's another 1% off futures.
Kerching.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 7:25 PM  

20. Ages August 28, 2017 7:21 PM


If Cuba shot a missile over Florida, would we sit around and do nothing?

Japan isn't an American state.
Japan is a whole other country.

They even have their own military and everything.

If they want to act then they can and could ask the U.S. for assistance...if they wanted.

Blogger mark auld August 28, 2017 7:25 PM  

Help arm up SK and Japan.Withdraw our troops when they're ready. ..you now have 30k new folks to Build The Wall!

Blogger Dos Voltz August 28, 2017 7:29 PM  

You guys talk like there is money to be made in markets when they only move maybe 1%. And like there are actually people who know when a war is about to start. That would be illegal folks, like insider trading.

I am not good at math, but I am pretty sure 1% of 100 billion can't even buy an average car.

Anonymous BBGKB August 28, 2017 7:32 PM  

South Korea isn't even paying for more than a platoon of US troops to defend them.

Blogger Geir Balderson August 28, 2017 7:33 PM  

"That should totally help, especially given the fact that the Navy is on stand-down due to its demonstrated inability to avoid deadly, high-speed cargo ships."

Yep! I betcha all the terrorist nations, including China are now investing in deadly, littoral Cargo Ram Ships! Why spend millions on actual weapons! Buy a few scrap cargos and send them arcing into the Navy Ships! No one seems to be awake on those pleasure craft.

Anonymous franklinjennings August 28, 2017 7:34 PM  

Come on, guys. This is a joke. North Korea is basically the least powerful nation on Earth. Much of their military hardware is fake. And not just according to the conspiracy theorists, according to our own military experts.

American consumers and taxpayers think the world revolves around them. They are half right. But it's not the North Korean dictators "hating us for our freedoms." It's the military industrial complex hungry for our tax dollars. The U.S. Federal government and the North Korean government both care much more about controlling and exploiting their respective domestic populations than about fighting each other.

People at this blog generally get this. Vox JUST wrote about how only idiots think the government is focused on our safety and well-being as opposed to their personal incentives and lust for power. And yet this post and all the comments so far take the "North Korean military threat" at face value.

Come on, high IQ gang. This isn't that complicated. Cui bono, follow the money, don't trust the mainstream media, etc. Worrying about North Korea is for suckers.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 28, 2017 7:35 PM  

Firing a missile over Japan is diplomacy. It worked in 2009.

Anonymous Heartsbane August 28, 2017 7:36 PM  

Vox, you aren't very bright are you? Militaries and nations are sometimes capable of chewing gum while walking. Afghanistan is next to Pakistan, which has the Taliban and Nukes. Ergo, eternal "war" in Afghanistan.

Anonymous Lawyer Guy August 28, 2017 7:39 PM  

Even with John Lehman as NAVSEC and Reagan as President there were issues. I was in troop berthing when the collision alarm went off in the middle of the night. Luckily they got out of it, but I was really scared.

Could just be bad luck and tired watchstanders.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 7:49 PM  

31. Lawyer Guy August 28, 2017 7:39 PM

Could just be bad luck and tired watchstanders.

They have radar, GPS, AIS transponders, infrared, electro-optical, and night watch.

They all failed in at least three or more incidents.

This is a military that claims they are going to fight a netcentric war and be aware of all incoming threats but can't seem to avoid a slow moving ship larger than a world war two aircraft carrier.

Anonymous Ages August 28, 2017 7:52 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:Japan isn't an American state.
Japan is a whole other country.
They even have their own military and everything.


Japan's constitution (written by the US after WWII) bans Japan from maintaining an army, navy or air force. They only have police. Under the U.S. and Japan Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement, the US is for all practical purposes Japan's military.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab August 28, 2017 7:55 PM  

Nothing will happen by the U.S. militarily. When have we directly attacked a nation possessing nukes?

Anonymous Ages August 28, 2017 7:55 PM  

franklinjennings wrote:And yet this post and all the comments so far take the "North Korean military threat" at face value.

Come on, high IQ gang. This isn't that complicated. Cui bono, follow the money, don't trust the mainstream media, etc. Worrying about North Korea is for suckers.


Nobody thinks NK poses a serious threat to anybody aside from SK. But violating the territory of another country cannot be ignored, can it?

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 7:59 PM  

33. Ages August 28, 2017 7:52 PM

They only have police.

Their "police" have 155 F-15 fighter jets, 70 F-4 Phantoms, 600 tanks, 4 helicopter carriers , 26 destroyers, 10 frigates, six corvettes, and 18 attack submarines.

Their mafia, the Yakuzi must be some really tough bastards.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 8:01 PM  

35. Ages August 28, 2017 7:55 PM

But violating the territory of another country cannot be ignored, can it?

Like Syria?

Anonymous eric the red August 28, 2017 8:01 PM  

Great. no healthcare, no tax relief and now a bunch of foreign wars. doesnt feel much like winning to me.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 28, 2017 8:03 PM  

Ages wrote:Under the U.S. and Japan Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement, the US is for all practical purposes Japan's military.

Japan has air, land and sea forces. The Japanese army is bigger than the British or Canadian armies.

The JSDF has over 500 tanks of various generations.

Blogger Cecil Henry August 28, 2017 8:04 PM  

I feel a Gulf of Tonkin incident coming in the future.

Don't let these warmongers do it.

If NK is a threat, get undercover troops in there and take out the head, or its support. Leave the other 20 million people to freedom

Blogger Chris Mallory August 28, 2017 8:04 PM  

The best option would be to bring all US troops home from Asia, give Guam it's independence. Let the Chinese, SoK and Japan deal with the Norks. It is none of our business.

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 8:07 PM  

"How fortunate that the USA has pledged to send more troops to Afghanistan."

I still think Afghanistan is a ruse to stage the NK asswhippin' force.

Remember Desert Shield?

Blogger Ransom Smith August 28, 2017 8:09 PM  

I still think Afghanistan is a ruse to stage the NK asswhippin' force.

Remember Desert Shield?


I hope to god you're right.

Blogger bobby August 28, 2017 8:11 PM  

"Japan's constitution (written by the US after WWII) bans Japan from maintaining an army, navy or air force."

Japan's constitution is amendable by its citizens.

It's just been much cheaper to not amend it, point to it, and wait for our expenditures.

Anonymous Ages August 28, 2017 8:20 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:35. Ages August 28, 2017 7:55 PM

But violating the territory of another country cannot be ignored, can it?

Like Syria?



Sure. I don't agree with any action in Syria, or Afghanistan for that matter.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 8:26 PM  

@7. Napoleon, you take that back. Option 5 is the nasty alternative. Japan still has buried onion layers of hatred from last time, and you can bet they'll come up in a jiffy.

When you watch Gojira, or NGE, or Akira, you can bet they were thinking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki while writing those, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"Maybe not our first best choice! (Or any choice at all?)"

I'd say there's no choice, but that would be a lie.

Fast, or Slow?

"Bang, I just saw another rocket, there's another 1% off futures.
Kerching."


Well aren't you just thoroughly Rothchildavellian?

"Japan isn't an American state.
Japan is a whole other country.

They even have their own military and everything."


Not exactly accurate. We're basically their defense contractor since they were Not Allowed to have an invasive-looking military force after WW2.

@25. Your sarcasm is very reassuring. Go sit in the doghouse with glosolalia.

"Worrying about North Korea is for suckers."

I'm sure Caesar said the same thing about Brutus. And it didn't even need to BE Brutus. A common house-slave could have done the same if he was mad (in any sense of the word) enough. NK is the common house-slave, and he's definitely mad enough.

"Could just be bad luck and tired watchstanders."

No, it's sh**heads and poor discipline. Guaranteed. There are far, far too many failsafes, but as they say "they always make a better idiot."

"Nothing will happen by the U.S. militarily. When have we directly attacked a nation possessing nukes?"

When has someone fired a nuclear-capable missile directly over a country that we were quite literally responsible for defending?

"Nobody thinks NK poses a serious threat to anybody aside from SK."

Nobody ever thinks the successful insurgent, rebellion, saboteur or backstabber is a serious threat, right up until it is.

"The JSDF has over 500 tanks of various generations."

I hear tanks are great in marine environments.

Do they have a military? Yes. Is it allowed to set foot or sail outside of their territorial waters? Basically no.

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 8:31 PM  


"Nobody thinks NK poses a serious threat to anybody aside from SK."

You're very mistaken. Everyone in the region from the Philippines to Australia take the threat seriously.

Anonymous MawBTS August 28, 2017 8:39 PM  

North Korea has a handful of crappy nukes that are about as powerful as Little Boy. And as soon as they use one, Pyongyang gets obliterated from the map and South Korea changes its name to "Korea".

They aren't an existential threat to anyone except their own people.

"When you watch Gojira, or NGE, or Akira, you can bet they were thinking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki while writing those, and that's just the tip of the iceberg."

Maybe the latter two. I believe Godzilla is a Japanese homage to American giant monster movies (like The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms).

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 8:39 PM  

46. Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 8:26 PM

Do they have a military? Yes. Is it allowed to set foot or sail outside of their territorial waters? Basically no.

That old skool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces#Naval_and_air_overseas_deployments

A contingent of the Japan Self-Defense Forces was sent in order to assist the U.S.-led Reconstruction of Iraq.

Japan provided logistics units for the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force Zone, which supervises the buffer zone in the Golan Heights, monitors Israeli and Syrian military activities, and assists local civilians.

The Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force deployed a force off the coast of Somalia to protect Japanese ships from Somali Pirates.

In May 2010, Japan announced it intended to build a permanent naval base in Djibouti to provide security for Japanese ships against Somali pirates.

The base now houses approximately 200 personnel and two P-3C aircraft.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 28, 2017 8:40 PM  

Nate wrote:You're very mistaken. Everyone in the region from the Philippines to Australia take the threat seriously.

Then let them deal with it. Not worth one drop of American blood or one ounce of American gold.

Anonymous 0007 August 28, 2017 8:47 PM  

IIRC several of the Japanese navy's destroyers have Agis and either have the BMD software installed or are in the process of installing it. The Standard Missle - Block III - I believe, is carried and capable of shooting down the relatively simple BMs that the Norks are spitting up.

Anonymous Jack August 28, 2017 8:54 PM  

China has said that they will be neutral if North Korea attacks first, but they have a mutual defense treaty with them and so they will side with them if North Korea is attacked first ... which is largely a matter of interpretation. Does this missile over Japan constitute an attack? Will some future event constitute an attack? Eye of the beholder.

There is speculation that China had tried to oust Kim and replace him with his brother last year, which is why the brother was killed in Malaysia and why another high level pro-Beijing guy in NK was taken out around the same time.

Regarding China and tariffs and going after select entities, it will be interesting to see who and how. Xi Jinping has been cracking down on corruption since he took office, but while the corruption is real, it's also true that most of the targets have been political enemies, so he kills two birds with one stone. If Trump and Xi really do have a good relationship (very questionable) then Trump will go after certain entities which are inimical to both America and Xi, and it will be a quid pro quo.

Blogger Frank Brady August 28, 2017 8:56 PM  

Why does the government of the United States believe it has the right or obligation to threaten any other nation that has not attacked our territory or people? Just wondering.

Blogger Orthodox August 28, 2017 8:59 PM  

Come on, guys. This is a joke. North Korea is basically the least powerful nation on Earth.

The Korean War never ended. The U.S. has obligations in Korea that go well beyond Cold War relics like NATO.

North Korea has been preparing for war with the United States and South Korea for 60 years. North Korea is backed by China. There is a saying that China and North Korea are as close as lips and teeth.

Seoul is by far the most important city in South Korea. North Korea has a lot of artillery pointed at Seoul. Their defense strategy is that if attacked, they will flatten Seoul. If it is knocked out, the Korean economy grinds to a standstill. Korea is a major trade economy, a hub in East Asia. Global recession will follow even if the war ends quickly.

The risk of dominoes falling is real. If China gets involved, it's WWIII immediately. Japan could announce it has gone nuclear in response.

North Korea can put a nuke on a missile and if it can detonate it at high altitude, it could knock out the power grid and electronics of any country within range. Say they hit Japan. This will be hugely popular in China and South Korea, and in other parts of Asia. Will the South Koreans agree to risk Seoul being leveled, and perhaps nuked, as part of a U.S. invasion plan to retaliate for the hated Japanese? Will the U.S. want to risk nuclear war with China? Or an EMP blast over the USA? Will Japan blame only North Korea or will Japan decide to sink Chinese naval vessels as retaliation and draw the U.S. into WWIII?

Blogger VD August 28, 2017 9:01 PM  

Why does the government of the United States believe it has the right or obligation to threaten any other nation that has not attacked our territory or people?

The USA is still at war with North Korea.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:04 PM  

Orthodox wrote:Seoul is by far the most important city in South Korea. North Korea has a lot of artillery pointed at Seoul. Their defense strategy is that if attacked, they will flatten Seoul.

Seoul has the kind of economic and political system that can rebuild. North Korea will become a wasteland. Remember, Samson did not eliminate completely the Phillistines, but he himself was annihilated.

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 9:05 PM  

"Come on, guys. This is a joke. North Korea is basically the least powerful nation on Earth."

False. Blatantly amazingly false.

Blogger David August 28, 2017 9:05 PM  

It may come as a surprise to some of the sperges here but a rogue nation threatening nuclear attack on the biggest economies in the world is a big deal. Hitting Japan or South Korea would have global ramifications that would be felt almost immediately by pretty much everyone. There's a reason China, Russia, Japan, and the Philippines are cooperating with the US on this.

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 9:07 PM  

"Then let them deal with it. Not worth one drop of American blood or one ounce of American gold."

sweetheart. When a psycho talks about serious plans and discussions about nuking american territory... You wreck his shit.

No other country on the planet would tolerate that. If he'd done it to Putin he would be disappeared.. tortured to death.. and his parts would be delivered to his replacement.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 9:10 PM  

54. Orthodox August 28, 2017 8:59 PM

The Korean War never ended.

Russia and Japan never signed a peace treaty either, so they technically are still at war.

It means nothing.

We can just leave.

Do you think North Korea built those nuclear ICBMs because of India, or Russia, or France and the nuclear threat they pose?

Or was it the United States?

Why are they so desperate to have an ICBM that can reach American soil?

Because they see us as a threat and want a deterrent.

It's not our circus, and those aren't our monkeys.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:10 PM  

Orthodox wrote:North Korea can put a nuke on a missile and if it can detonate it at high altitude, it could knock out the power grid and electronics of any country within range.

This is a perfect opportunity for the US to test the EMP theories.

Put an EMP on North Korea and see if they can launch anything before they are overrun.

Blogger Orthodox August 28, 2017 9:16 PM  

Do you think North Korea built those nuclear ICBMs because of India, or Russia, or France and the nuclear threat they pose?

Threats are NK's source of funding. If we left, they might fire an ICBM into San Francisco Bay. If we leave, they starve because then China doesn't have to put up with their bullshit anymore.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:19 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:Why are they so desperate to have an ICBM that can reach American soil?

Because they see us as a threat and want a deterrent.


One ICBM that can reach America is NOT a deterrent. It is an invitation to be annihilated.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab August 28, 2017 9:19 PM  

Let's say we win no casualties all of nk at our feet. Is China going to watch rok become their neighbors? I just can't see us start hostilities again.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 9:21 PM  

62. Orthodox August 28, 2017 9:16 PM

If we left, they might fire an ICBM into San Francisco Bay.

I doubt that. None of the leaders of North Korea have stepped over any lines that would lead to national destruction.

They are acting in their own best interests which includes extorting gold and loot from suckers if it can be done on the cheap.

If we leave, they starve because then China doesn't have to put up with their bullshit anymore.

Also not our problem.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 28, 2017 9:21 PM  

Nate wrote:sweetheart. When a psycho talks about serious plans and discussions about nuking american territory... You wreck his shit.

No other country on the planet would tolerate that. If he'd done it to Putin he would be disappeared.. tortured to death.. and his parts would be delivered to his replacement.


The North Koreans are hiding under your bed, the Muslims are in the closet.


Will you be signing up your kids to go and fight in Asia?

Anonymous User August 28, 2017 9:25 PM  

"The USA is still at war with North Korea"

The UN is at war with North Korea.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd August 28, 2017 9:26 PM  

Yes but that is pushing the limit we imposed on them.
They need to be freed to rearm totally. I'm not too sure how the naval portion stacks up to DPRKs.
What we should do is support them truly rearming, building the infantry and armor/artillery divisions needed to fight on the ground. Then we can let them defend themselves.
It's not really fair to bail on them now. We should start encouraging them to seriously rearm, though.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 9:26 PM  

63. Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:19 PM

One ICBM that can reach America is NOT a deterrent. It is an invitation to be annihilated.

The United States isn't trading even one American city, not even Los Angeles for a Korean city.

It's a deterrent against an American nuclear strike as are the sub launched missiles they are working on. More so if they are EMP weapons.

It should never have come to this, but it has.

Blogger Orthodox August 28, 2017 9:27 PM  

Is China going to watch rok become their neighbors?

It would be helpful if you know anything at all about politics in Northeast Asia. A lot of South Koreans already want the USA out of Korea with the NK threat still extant. If we won a clean victory they'd say thank you very much, now GTFO.

Blogger Orthodox August 28, 2017 9:28 PM  

South Korea's top trade partners:
China: US$124.4 billion (25.1% of total Korean exports)
United States: $66.8 billion (13.5%)
Hong Kong: $32.8 billion (6.6%)
Vietnam: $32.7 billion (6.6%)
Japan: $24.4 billion (4.9%)
Singapore: $12.5 billion (2.5%)
Taiwan: $12.2 billion (2.5%)
India: $11.6 billion (2.3%)

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:33 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:It should never have come to this, but it has.

If Mutually Assured Destruction is no longer operative, then Pre-emptive Annihilation is the only choice. All you have left to work out is the set-up.

Anonymous MawBTS August 28, 2017 9:33 PM  

"IIRC several of the Japanese navy's destroyers have Agis and either have the BMD software installed or are in the process of installing it. The Standard Missle - Block III - I believe, is carried and capable of shooting down the relatively simple BMs that the Norks are spitting up."

Don't the NK missiles use tumbling (so that they don't have a predictable trajectory)? Maybe someone else knows more.

"sweetheart. When a psycho talks about serious plans and discussions about nuking american territory... You wreck his shit."

I'd rather the guys in the big boy chair conduct a risk assessment, judge whether the psycho has the means or will to carry out his threat, judge whether it's worth the expenditure in money and human lives, ponder the long term consequences of starting a war of aggression in a region where some of America's closest allies live, and other things. But then, I'm not a Cowadoody player. Maybe Soap McTavish would handle it a different way.

Blogger DeploraBard August 28, 2017 9:40 PM  

Nate wrote:I still think Afghanistan is a ruse to stage the NK asswhippin' force.

Remember Desert Shield?


It is solely for more of the same. My BDE is going back in the spring. Fortunately, I retire in May.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 9:43 PM  

72. Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:33 PM

If Mutually Assured Destruction is no longer operative, then Pre-emptive Annihilation is the only choice.

So when do we nuke Israel and Pakistan?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 9:47 PM  

@75. Sharrukin, MAD is most definitely in play with Israel.

Actually, their version of the doctrine says "If we go down we're doing our damndest to take all of Europe and the ME with us".

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:48 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:So when do we nuke Israel and Pakistan?

Have they verbalized any nuclear threats against US territory?

Blogger Koanic August 28, 2017 9:48 PM  

Choices choices:

1. Leave Asia to the Chinese. They'll have it eventually anyway. The USA can afford to trade nukes 1:1 with North Korea. Ours are bigger. A good nuking would put the fear of GNON into Californians and stimulate civil defense programs. Nothing like a little fallout to increase the ambient K-selection. Look weak, preserve strength.

2. Attack North Korea and play brinkmanship with China while they bleed our failing empire and whet their steak knives. Win expensively. Look strong and become weaker.

3. Let the neo-cons discredit themselves with yet another fiasco. Nth times' the charm! Lose deniably. Look moderately strong, become moderately weaker.

4. Encourage the failing USSA empire to invade North Korea, get nuked, and fight China. Stage a coup ala WW1 Russia. Play Bolshevik roulette.

5. Secede to succeed. Drop all pretence of globocop. Invade Mexico for lebensraum and Canada for Reconquista. Impale Justin Trudea on the CN Tower.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab August 28, 2017 9:49 PM  

Assume what you like orthodox. I've been paying attention to the two Koreas for years. If you think China would be hunky dorry with the rok on their border and all that implies about the process good for you.

Blogger Orville August 28, 2017 9:49 PM  

@61 Put an EMP on North Korea and see if they can launch anything before they are overrun.

And put out all three of their lights? Have you seen the nighttime pictures of NORK from space? Sad.

The Japs have been having a resurgence of their militaristic culture along with all the goodies Uncle Sam has given them. Add to that a nice stockpile of plutonium from all their reactors and their fine ability to re-engineer other people's designs. It would not surprise me if they already had a number of un-assembled nukes in cold storage. JAXA, their version of NASA, has been launching satellites since 1970.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 9:52 PM  

77. Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:48 PM

Have they verbalized any nuclear threats against US territory?

Yes.

We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 9:56 PM  

Koanic wrote:5. Secede to succeed. Drop all pretence of globocop. Invade Mexico for lebensraum and Canada for Reconquista. Impale Justin Trudeau on the CN Tower.

I like the way you think. I will float that idea with my compatriots.

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 9:58 PM  

"I'd rather the guys in the big boy chair conduct a risk assessment, judge whether the psycho has the means or will to carry out his threat, judge whether it's worth the expenditure in money and human lives, ponder the long term consequences of starting a war of aggression in a region where some of America's closest allies live, and other things."

And they have all done all of those things for the last several years.

Everyone is in agreement that the man is a seriously psychotic that absolutely is capable and possibly likely to nuke someone just to watch the world burn.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 28, 2017 9:58 PM  

@78 Koanic

"Impale Justin Trudea on the CN Tower." Might be fun just in general. Though we'll have to figure out what socks he should wear.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/08/28/north-korea-launches-another-missile-attempts-escalation-by-crossing-northern-japan/

If you're not familiar with Sundance's work, you really should be. He's got a stupidly good grasp on Economic Policy minutia and the way the global multi-national corporations work. NK fires weapon over Japanese Airspace *after* Trump Admin gets closer to India and drops further sanctions on Chinese Nationals. This is Chinese escalation.

Trump can get 5% US GDP growth wholly off the back of putting the screws into China. Something that Chinese may be finally figuring out.

Important point: Most of the anti-missile tech has been co-developed with the Japanese. That missile was allowed to stay in flight. The Japanese were more than able to knock it down. Everything that happens from here on is showmanship and John McCain's Death Boner. Though the less seen of the latter, the better.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 10:00 PM  

@78. Koanic, we're already too weak as a people for option 1, and even if a politician had the spine, they'd lose their job, and they don't have the spine for that.

Option 2 is retarded, but it actually won't make us weaker, just bubbly-er, which is our version of Israel's MAD with ROW. It puts everyone on top of the thin ice.

Option three doesn't work at all, for anything. It's basically option two but with us losing in every metric including looks.

Four is just (((what the actual f***.)))

5 is God Emperor cometh. Be total badasses for a few years by basically lighting our blood on fire and burning up any hope of a future beyond about 200 years, if even that. TBF, ((())) would definitely f*** us over in that to. They don't make money when a man steps on an ant. They only make the big bucks when evenly-matched-looking gladiators duke it out to the death and bleed all over the arena.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 10:01 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:Yes.

We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.


1. Disingenuous. They did not specifically mention the US like the Norks did, and everyone knows their nuke enemies are Iran and Pakistan, with a little nod to the Euros and Russia on the side. They have the US co-opted. No need for threats.

2. Nothing on Pakistan?

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 10:01 PM  

Koanic... your faith in China is unwarranted. China is dying. It peaked around 1999 back before all the CHINA IS THE NEXT SUPERPOWER hype even started.

Its been in decline ever since... and that decline is now increasing in rate.

They are running out other people's money.. and they have already run out of slave labor. They're done. India is the next china.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 28, 2017 10:02 PM  

@80 Orville

Japanese could have a testable device in a long weekend. All of the important players know this. But, well, all of East Asia hates each other. A lot. No one wants the Japanese with nukes.

Blogger Tino August 28, 2017 10:03 PM  

Nothing will happen. No side is ready for WW3. In the meantime, maintaining the multiple military-industrial complexes running requires arms sales. Arm sales require threats. Now if NK misses the ocean and actually hits something, a lot plans will go very sideways...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 10:04 PM  

"The Japs have been having a resurgence of their militaristic culture along with all the goodies Uncle Sam has given them. Add to that a nice stockpile of plutonium from all their reactors and their fine ability to re-engineer other people's designs. It would not surprise me if they already had a number of un-assembled nukes in cold storage. JAXA, their version of NASA, has been launching satellites since 1970."

Giving Japan their head by renegotiating or "cooperatively curtailing" their "defense contract" with us is probably the best option. Additional assistance from us may or may not be meaningful or necessary.

If we've got people p***ed over here, you can bet that they're ready to make waves after the missile we're talking about actually flew directly over their heads.

OpenID aew51183 August 28, 2017 10:04 PM  

@88

-implying they don't already have an undisclosed stockpile capable of retaliatory strikes against China or NK.

Blogger Nate August 28, 2017 10:06 PM  

"Nothing will happen. No side is ready for WW3. "

yes.. because humanity has always had an abundance of sanity when it comes to war.

Anonymous Andrew E. August 28, 2017 10:07 PM  

I think Sundance is right and this move evidences that China is feeling squeezed by Trump on many fronts and is flailing a bit here by telling NK to shoot this missile over Japan. The cumulative effect of Trump's economic actions on China and China's clients (Pakistan, Venezuela) is taking a toll and China may even have realized they're being cornered. Hence the escalation to try and reset the board. I don't think Trump will fall for it. He probably recognizes it for what it is and is smiling.

Blogger DonReynolds August 28, 2017 10:07 PM  

Having seen United States Navy gunboats surrender to the Iranian Navy and cringe and crawl to their captors. I guess we can only thank the Iranians for returning sailors, and their naval officers, who surrendered their boats without firing a shot in anger. These are not the sailors and naval officers I have known in the past, so it does not seem to matter what the Hell the Navy decides to do with their boats. Just stand back and stand still.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 28, 2017 10:09 PM  

83. Nate August 28, 2017 9:58 PM

Everyone is in agreement that the man is a seriously psychotic that absolutely is capable and possibly likely to nuke someone just to watch the world burn.

No they aren't.

Neither Russia nor China are agreed on that.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/06/22/Poll-Most-South-Koreans-support-inter-Korean-dialogue/8491498149424/

80 percent of South Koreans support a resumption of long suspended inter-Korean dialogue

Nor it seems are the South Korean people.

Every leader that upsets the United States for the past 50 years is both crazy and he's Hitler.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 28, 2017 10:15 PM  

@93 Andrew E.

Sundance does miss 1 key aspect: the Chinese Yuan is running between 80-100% overvalued. "Overvalued"? Yup! Raw Materials into China are valued in USD. For as much as the Chinese have been making as many direct swap lines as possible, it's all just USD conversions. Yuan at the proper value & every bubble explodes in China.

The Chinese know this. Trump knows this. All of the EU knows this. The Chinese screwed themselves when they joined the SDR at the valuation they did. Now the European Masters will pillage China just the way they pillage everyone else. So much for all of that Joint Venture work. Trump, however, doesn't care. It's China's problem. He's given them the choice and they have chosen poorly.

Trump brought in "killers" to his administration. That's not just generals. Mnunchin & Ross are cold-hearted bastards as well. China got used to just buying their position with the UniParty. They forgot there's money to be made off their own hide.

Blogger comreich August 28, 2017 10:15 PM  

@78 Speaking as a western Canucklehead, for option 5, please let it be the Calgary Tower. That would be two layers of karmic justice.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 10:16 PM  

@88. Looking Glass, "But, well, all of East Asia hates each other. A lot. No one wants the Japanese with nukes."

Imagine you had a cat, that ripped up your bedsheets and curtains on a daily basis, tried to take a c**p in your plate if your ever even thought of using the restroom during a meal, went out and caught the biggest, meanest rats it could find in order to store them (alive) in your underwear drawer, tried to slit your throat at night with its claws, and somehow collected naked pictures of your wife.

That's pretty much how all of east Asia feels about all the rest of east Asia, and for basically identical reasons.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 10:16 PM  

The more actions North Korea indulges in , the more information is gathered by its foes. Keep shooting those duds Kim Jong. Test a few more nukes. Everytime you do that, you supply information.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 28, 2017 10:17 PM  

@93
I think Sundance is right and this move evidences that China is feeling squeezed by Trump on many fronts and is flailing a bit here by telling NK to shoot this missile over Japan.

Or this is just North Korean diplomacy, intended to test the new President. Just like they did in 2009. Hey, is Bill Richardson still alive?

Blogger DonReynolds August 28, 2017 10:18 PM  

@89 Tino wrote:Nothing will happen. No side is ready for WW3. In the meantime, maintaining the multiple military-industrial complexes running requires arms sales. Arm sales require threats. Now if NK misses the ocean and actually hits something, a lot plans will go very sideways...

Of the past two world wars, nobody was prepared, nor did they expect the war to happen when it did. Even the military experts who expected a major war, did not expect it to happen until 5 or 10 years later.
The people who initiate wars see a definite advantage of striking before their opponents can get stronger and before they (and their allies) get weaker. In short, NOBODY is supposed to be ready for a war. If they were ready, it would be postponed.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 10:19 PM  

"Nothing will happen. No side is ready for WW3."

ROFL.

Have you looked outside lately?

Now imagine being in Berkely.

Now imagine being in ROW where Berkely basically looks like a funny catfight.

You may not be ready for WW3.

But for every you, there are about twenty other people out there who are secretly, subconsciously itching for it.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 28, 2017 10:21 PM  

Shouldn't U.S. policy and actions have some benefit for the American people?

Silly boy. Murika has a government of the banks, by the banks and for the banks. One nation under Fraud. Kwa-bananaland.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 28, 2017 10:26 PM  

Every leader that upsets the United States for the past 50 years is both crazy and he's Hitler.

There are at least 36 Hitlers and probably many more. The ADL informs us so every minute. We have a whole damned legion of Hitlers - right here in Dindu City. Kim-Jong Crazy is quite unstable so maybe he's the mostest Hitlerish Hitler evah - the über-Hitler of the day.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 10:33 PM  

>"Everyone is in agreement that the man is a seriously psychotic that absolutely is capable and possibly likely to nuke someone just to watch the world burn."

>"No they aren't."


Ever played any of the fallout games? You know the Raiders? They're not exactly crazy, but they do have a certain, ...mentality. Something that comes with being either unable or unwilling to grow or produce your own sustenance, and completely willing and able to steal from, kill, or raid anyone and everyone else to get it.

The difference between the NORKs and the Sub Saharan variety are that the NORKs are much, much more capable, and much, much more brainwashed and crazy.

Psychotic? Yeah, most likely.

"Just to watch the world burn?" No.

>"Starve, or set the world on fire. Lose my power to not starve, or set the world on fire. Eviscerated by my brainwashed slaves, or set the world on fire?

World be lookin' awf'ly flammable these days..."

Blogger DeploraBard August 28, 2017 10:34 PM  

89) It rarely goes according to plan once the shooting starts and we can only assume what the major players will do. Best/worst case scenarios provide a false sense of control. The unpredictability of this is very real as is the potential for serious chaos.

Blogger JaimeInTexas August 28, 2017 10:39 PM  

P o l i c e A c t i o n
by the UN.

None of our business.

These uSA, under R. Reagan, introduced new weapons systems into S. Korwa on violation of the truce.

Blogger Koanic August 28, 2017 10:40 PM  

Did you know Trudeau is the cuckoo son of Castro?

Unbelievable. It's true doh!

> China is dying.

Said the hag about the nymph.

Why look out my window when I can get the news straight from Alabama?

C.f. Smart Fraction Theory II, La Griffe du Lion. Also John Glubb, cycle of empires.

Blogger Lazarus August 28, 2017 10:44 PM  

Gen. Kong wrote:There are at least 36 Hitlers and probably many more.

Germany existed under "a state of exception" since 1919 where the constitution was placed in a state of limbo and certain rights were suspended to "protect democracy".

As we have seen, the US constitution has been in a state of limbo for ? years. One of the 36 Hitlers needs to take advantage.

Blogger Frank Brady August 28, 2017 11:00 PM  

@VD at 55 wrote, "The USA is still at war with North Korea."

Vox, the USA has never been "at war" with North Korea. American military action in Korea in 1950 was conducted under U.N. auspices. War was never declared by Congress. Fighting ended with an "armistice agreement" in 1953 between the US. It's probably worth noting that the so-called Chinese People's Volunteer Army, represented by a North Korean Army General was a party to that agreement.

Blogger bw August 28, 2017 11:07 PM  

Muh Freedom McStain

Every "war" since 1812 has been bullsh^t and The Lie.
The Lifeblood of the State..

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 28, 2017 11:10 PM  

Chris Mallory sounds like quite the fitting name for your typical NAP open borders Libertarian neckbeard retard.

News flash: Ron Paul isn't right on everything. Trump is the much better president to handle North Korea than Ron Paul would be.

Blogger Tino August 28, 2017 11:12 PM  

@102

I am past the half-century mark and have helped build a part of the security blanket the U.S. sleeps under. I have had projects go eminent domain by the United States. And after we got caught with our pants down on a Pakistani nuke oh so many years ago, I helped build an automated system of finding WMD from orbit. But except for the occasional guest lecture, I avoid National Security these days. So, in an area where I am very, very intimate, let me say it again but with detail. Geo-politically, the U.S. is a pariah Nation. The Federal Reserve has written roughly 10 quads of useless paper. Yep 200x Global GDP. The economy is an artificial fantasy going back roughly 25 years at this point propped up by fantasy bits in a fantasy financial system. Supercomputers struggle every night to balance the books. We have defaulted on massive sums owed other Nations and Privates on a scale that would boggle your mind. BRICS does not exist by accident. Routing around SWIFT is not an accident. So, the next super-power will be EurAsia -- financially centered on London bolstered by the military power of China, Russia and India. The SilkRoads are not being rebuilt by accident. Russia and China have engaged in crash programs to achieve military power parity. Their strategic weapons are perfectly capable of glassing the whole U.S. at this point and we have no way to stop it. Fact. Calmer minds work behind the scene. There's no question that the NWO Empire is being blocked and China/Russia have said "No more". Our Deep State is a bunch of cowards and all God-bothering about dying, knowing that after the surface is annihilated, the Russians (or the Chinese) will dig them out of any surviving bunkers and kill them. On the verge of Transhumanism no less! So once again, Mutual Assured Destruction holds the Peace. If either side wanted WW3 right now, NK (or Ukraine or Syria or Chinese islands, not like we haven't given sufficient reason) could serve as a quick effective trigger with appropriate escalation. Instead, China is quietly telling NK to behave and the Japan launch will have repercussions. All sides are now developing their next level weapons in the hope of achieving superiority. Best guess is that is between 3 and 7 years out. All sides are frantic. So, hopefully I have clarified why nothing will happen, no side is ready for WW3. In the meantime, the embryo of EurAsia is gestating, probably 10 years before it emerges. A pity China is not ready to take world leadership yet. If they sank an aircraft carrier or two we really could all move on to the next phase of human evolution.

Have fun kids storming the Castle.

Blogger Frank Brady August 28, 2017 11:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Frank Brady August 28, 2017 11:14 PM  

Kim may be psychotic, but he's not a fool. He observed how the U.S. rewarded Libya's Muammar al-Qaddafi when he gave up his nuclear weapons program. He undoubtedly sees his nukes as a means to preserve his regime.

Blogger Ken Prescott August 28, 2017 11:16 PM  

"That should totally help, especially given the fact that the Navy is on stand-down due to its demonstrated inability to avoid deadly, high-speed cargo ships."

And that one can be laid at the feet of the Bush 43 administration. The Navy shut down the Surface Warfare Officer School in 2003. After that, students got 21 CD-ROMS (called "SWOS in a Box") to do as part of OJT.

If we trained Naval Aviators the way we train shiphandlers, we'd simply send newly-commissioned ensigns to the fleet squadrons with a fistful of CD-ROMS, strap 'em into a Super Hornet, and shoot 'em off the bow cat.

We now have senior commanders and junior captains who literally have no idea how to safely handle a ship in formation or in a shipping lane. And these guys are getting command at sea assignments.

This isn't the sort of thing you can fix with a "stand down" or "operational pause." It's a systemic failure of the Navy's most central culture--being haze gray and underway.

My dear, departed father drove destroyers for half of his career in the Navy. He had a navigation chart, a maneuvering board, dividers, number 2 pencil, compass, and pelorus. Never played bumpercars with other ships or ran into stationary objects. That's because the Navy expected him to be, first and foremost, a sailor. They trained him at Great Lakes how to be an enlisted sailor, proficient in basic seamanship, and at Annapolis how to be a blackshoe unrestricted line officer, able to navigate and conn underway.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 11:18 PM  

@111. bw, "Every "war" since 1812 has been bullsh^t and The Lie."

Barring the Revolutionary and maybe a few handfuls of other "outside vs inside" wars, you're something like six hundred years too late on that proclamation.

Even if someone wasn't manipulating them (however much) and profiting though, there'd likely be just about as many wars going on.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 11:27 PM  

@113. Tino, you've got me mistaken. I'll admit I may have exaggerated with 20:1, but I'm not actually referring to the most level headed heads of the most developed nations when I say that people aren't as war-averse as people here seem to think.

Next war goes nuclear? Maybe. Really, really hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me terribly.

That being said, it doesn't even HAVE to go nuclear to be terrible.

I'm also by no means advocating it myself. I'm just saying don't be so sure, because much smarter people have been totally wrong on this very question many, many times before. It's practically a law of nature at this point.

As to Eurasia being the next superpower, I'm quite inclined to agree. It might very well be the final one, and it's going to be a terrible, terrible day indeed, in all senses of that word.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 28, 2017 11:29 PM  

"He undoubtedly sees his nukes as a means to preserve his regime."

"Eviscerated by my brainwashed slaves, or set the world on fire?"

Blogger Frank Brady August 28, 2017 11:49 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Frank Brady August 28, 2017 11:50 PM  

He undoubtedly sees his nukes as a means to preserve his regime."

"Eviscerated by my brainwashed slaves, or set the world on fire?"

======================================================================

Yes, but Kim's "brainwashed slaves" bear a genuine hatred of the U.S. and, because they ARE brainwashed, most don't understand the reality of their position.

Of course, if we observe the reaction of far too many Americans to Charlottesville and events that followed, it's possible to wonder which population has been most effectively brainwashed.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 28, 2017 11:59 PM  

Ingot9455 wrote:Also there's that question - when do you try to shoot down one of their missiles?
"Able-1" was written about exactly that idea.

Blogger Buybuydandavis August 29, 2017 12:44 AM  

franklinjennings wrote:Come on, guys. This is a joke. North Korea is basically the least powerful nation on Earth.
...
Worrying about North Korea is for suckers.


North Korea has always been a hostage situation. The NK people. Seoul. And with maybe 20 nukes and missiles, a lot of other people too.

NK has been successfully playing that hostage situation to squeeze money out of the rest of the world. They will keep demanding more, as the number of nations they can threaten grows with their military capability.

Once you pay the Danegild, you never get rid of the Dane. NK isn't going away. And likely will encourage copycats.

It's silly to say that they have no power. They have the power to kill millions. The power to destroy a thing is control over it. They will continue to exercise that control until they are made to stop.

Blogger Buybuydandavis August 29, 2017 12:58 AM  

MawBTS wrote:North Korea has a handful of crappy nukes that are about as powerful as Little Boy. And as soon as they use one, Pyongyang gets obliterated from the map and South Korea changes its name to "Korea".

They aren't an existential threat to anyone except their own people.


NK leadership can kill millions. They use that power to extort money.

Analyzing this in nation state terms is a mistake.

It's a hostage situation. They are criminals with their guns to the heads of millions, and the millions would rather pay than take the risk. Pay or we kill people.

This is the kind of thing I'd expect Trump to be willing to engage in, depending on cost benefit.

No nation building, but destroy threats to the international order.

In Syria, it was chemical weapons proliferation. In Afghanistan, it's international Islamic terrorism. With ISIS, it's more international Islamic terrorism. In NK, it's a nuclear hostage situation.

People who thought non-interventionism meant an unwillingness to use military force simply read Trump wrong.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales August 29, 2017 1:08 AM  

"If they sank an aircraft carrier or two we really could all move on to the next phase of human evolution."

Wait... but didn't you just bash the NWO elites for being a bunch of transhumanists in the same statement you wrote? Why then did you use distinctly transhumanist phraseology, because really, aside from a transhumanist, what nutjob would honestly say that who gets to play world superpower has fuck and all to do with human evolution unless they believe this new superpower will bring about transhumanist wet-dreams, which, really, Russia is most certainly not trying to do, though China, which is an NWO state mind you, so I don't know why you're saying they aren't when they are, is certainly trying.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 29, 2017 1:10 AM  

124. Buybuydandavis August 29, 2017 12:58 AM

In Syria, it was chemical weapons proliferation. In Afghanistan, it's international Islamic terrorism. With ISIS, it's more international Islamic terrorism. In NK, it's a nuclear hostage situation.

And in Libya it was terrorism and human rights, in Iraq it was WMDs, in Syria it was fake gas attacks, and Afghanistan, etc.

Obama, Bush, Trump. S.S.D.D.

Anonymous I liked M.A.S.H. too August 29, 2017 1:50 AM  

VD wrote:Why does the government of the United States believe it has the right or obligation to threaten any other nation that has not attacked our territory or people?

The USA is still at war with North Korea.


I missed the memo. Somebody needs to update Infogalactic to reflect this new information.

The slur against the U.S. Navy is unwarranted. They are a lot more impressive when they are patrolling within 200nm of America's shore.

OpenID paulmurray August 29, 2017 2:02 AM  

The 9/11 attackers had one demand: US troops out of the holy lands. The USA capitulated, but had only one way to do this - send them to a different war. Hence, Iraq and suddenly CIA asset SH became a bad guy.

Same, same again. The Afghanistan war has cost a trillion bucks, all for nothing. There's only one way to get the troops out: send 'em to another war. Hence, North Korea and sudennly KJU is shooting missiles.

It's just the old cups-and-balls magic trick. The misdirection is there to hide the underlying fact: the US military is mainly a conduit for bribes and a vast employment program.

Blogger Cloudbuster August 29, 2017 2:52 AM  

Ages wrote:Nobody thinks NK poses a serious threat to anybody aside from SK. But violating the territory of another country cannot be ignored, can it?

I don't know. Let's go ask someone in Crimea.

Blogger AdognamedOp August 29, 2017 2:58 AM  

I get a bad feeling thinking about all this crap going on in the Far East. I know the Norks dont pose any real threat to the states and trust US command has a plan for any Nork aggression against mainland US. But then I see two strong pieces -guided missile destroyers-taken off the board and wonder if there really is a globalist cabal hell bent on setting the World on fire. I can understand one naval crew slacking off -Obama fundamental transformation-but two in the span of six weeks? Something aint right. Previous WW's were preceded by small, global conflict. It seems like the pieces are being set in place for the next one.

Anonymous Aristotle would have killed on Twitter August 29, 2017 3:01 AM  

Cloudbuster wrote:Ages wrote:Nobody thinks NK poses a serious threat to anybody aside from SK. But violating the territory of another country cannot be ignored, can it?

I don't know. Let's go ask someone in Crimea.


Because Crimea is the go-to source for up-to-date American military ventures.

As we all know, history is replete with examples of how history repeated itself when new information came to light.

Blogger Resident Moron™ August 29, 2017 3:14 AM  

OTOH, Japan has the most heavily armed "police" forces you ever saw, including F15s, etc.

The polite fiction of the post-war constitution written by MacArthur is visibly eroding, with the Japanese government openly advocating for their own military. And of course this dovetails neatly with Trump's recent calls for Europe to maintain their own defense.

Blogger AdognamedOp August 29, 2017 3:52 AM  

I\d love to see the Japs revive that old Samurai tradition. It's gonna happen eventually. I just wanna be around to see it. Especially with newer. cooler weapon than the famed sword.

Anonymous Punisher August 29, 2017 5:27 AM  

But we are tolerant, dammit!

Blogger Resident Moron™ August 29, 2017 6:09 AM  

Non-intervention only overlaps with being unwilling to use military force if you're talking about pacifists.

But the proper meaning is being unwilling to use military force to solve other people's problems.

Anonymous glosoli August 29, 2017 6:49 AM  

Hey Nate,

Did the guys who have been assessing the threat of NK for many years also do the assessment of Iraq under Saddam? Your faith in FedGov is touching, I'm sure they wouldn't make the same *mistake* again.

How can China run out of money, they have their own central bank.
Also, they are knee deep in physical gold, at sovereign level, at citizen level, and at 1km below ground level.

Gold will be revalued by ECB QE within 5 years, add a zero to its current buying power, at least.

The next 500 years will be Eastern hegemony again, it will not be Western, we've blown it.

You Yanks have a very Yankee-centric view. It's over, the fat lady is singing already, we're currently watching its collapse. The usurious rats are leaving the ship, and they're heading East. Smart rats.

Blogger Ken Prescott August 29, 2017 7:28 AM  

"How can China run out of money, they have their own central bank."

Which has over a trillion or so of bad loans, never to be repaid, to people with first names like "Minister."

"Also, they are knee deep in physical gold, at sovereign level, at citizen level, and at 1km below ground level."

The amount claimed at the sovereign level and the amount actually on hand are probably very different numbers, as a great deal has moved from the sovereign level to the citizen level (again, to people with first names like "Minister").

Blogger Chris Mallory August 29, 2017 10:09 AM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Chris Mallory sounds like quite the fitting name for your typical NAP open borders Libertarian neckbeard retard.


No, it is a fitting name for an American nationalist who wants to close the borders, end all foreign aid, bring all our troops home and start mass deportations.

Funny, I think American tax money should be used to defend Americans, not Poles, Koreans, Japs, Germans, or Israelis.

And your "muh freedom of the seas" doesn't wash. I don't see much reason to tax Americans to the globalists can ship American jobs overseas and have safe travels to ship those goods back.

If you want to go to war with North Korea, hey buy a parachute and a rifle and I won't stand in your way. But leave me and my nation out of your globalist fever dreams.

Blogger Frank Brady August 29, 2017 10:23 AM  

Chris Mallory wrote, "If you want to go to war with North Korea, hey buy a parachute and a rifle and I won't stand in your way. But leave me and my nation out of your globalist fever dreams."

Many of those who favor interventionism have never worn a uniform or heard a shot fired in anger. Being willing to fight to the last drop of somebody else's blood indicates neither understanding or courage.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 29, 2017 1:35 PM  

Orville wrote:Add to that a nice stockpile of plutonium from all their reactors and their fine ability to re-engineer other people's designs.
Their plutonium is not usable for weapons; it's a grossly wrong isotope mix, as is all ex-LWR Pu.  There are power reactors, and weapons-materials production reactors.  Never the twain has met.

Strangely, the Depleted Cranium post on this subject has been deleted.  Only Pu specifically prepared for weapons has ever been successfully used in bombs, but the WNA page on fuel recycling now declares "The two kinds differ in their isotopic composition but must both be regarded as a potential proliferation risk, and managed accordingly.". One wonders why.

Someone is trying to ramp up the fear-mongering, that's why.  Or maybe it's (((someone)))?

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction August 29, 2017 4:44 PM  

@33

Not remotely true, Japan does in fact have a military, they call it a self defense force but it is a military in structure and operation. Their navy is one of the largest and most advanced in the world, they have 114 ships, 46 of them are destroyers which makes their destroyer fleet larger than the both UKs and France's combined. Due to a rising China they have spent a considerable amount of resources beefing up their anti-submarine capabilities.

Anonymous Andrew Anglin August 29, 2017 6:45 PM  

NK is a sovereign State. Kim has noticed that States w/o nuclear weapons are prone to violent visitations from Uncle Schmuel, while States with nukes -
Russia, China - are less likely to be visited by Uncle Schmuel.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction August 29, 2017 7:01 PM  

@142

How's does launching artillery strikes, covert operations and violating other nations sovereignty with missile launches coupled with violent rhetoric play into that? On the basis of that alone Japan and South Korea would be entirely justified launching a military operation against the Norks.

The Norks also seem to be doing their damnedest to alienate their one true guarantee of protection China. China has already indicated an unhappiness with the Norks actions but they either do not see a need to, or perhaps more disconcerting simply unable, to entice the Norks. I don't want war in Asia but I don't think we can simply ignore North Korea.

Blogger Frank Brady August 29, 2017 7:31 PM  

@ 143. Theproductofafineeduction

So. would Syria, Libya, Iraq, Serbia, etc. be "entirely justified in launching a military operation against the" U.S.? If not, why not?

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction August 29, 2017 9:28 PM  

Yes, but also immaterial. I was specifically addressing this idea that the Norks were trying to acquire nikes simply to keep Uncle Sam away. It isn't. It's to apply pressure in the region and, if they ever chose to try and retake South Korea by force, make a counter operation prohibitive.

Blogger Frank Brady August 30, 2017 11:53 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Frank Brady August 30, 2017 11:53 AM  

129. Cloudbuster August 29, 2017 2:52 AM
Ages wrote:
Nobody thinks NK poses a serious threat to anybody aside from SK. But violating the territory of another country cannot be ignored, can it?

I don't know. Let's go ask someone in Crimea.
----------------------------------------------------
I'm sure you meant to write, "Let's go ask someone in the Ukraine". After all, that's the country which had its duly elected government overthrown by the U.S. in February 2014. The people of Crimea (who are ethnic Russians) voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia after the American-led and sponsored coup in the Ukraine.

Blogger OneWingedShark August 30, 2017 1:40 PM  

Ages wrote:Sharrukin wrote:Japan isn't an American state.
Japan is a whole other country.
They even have their own military and everything.


Japan's constitution (written by the US after WWII) bans Japan from maintaining an army, navy or air force. They only have police. Under the U.S. and Japan Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement, the US is for all practical purposes Japan's military.

Exactly so, and even if the Mutual Defense agreement didn't exist we would have the moral and philosophical obligation to defend Japan -- for when one disarms another, preventing him from defending himself, one takes the responsibility for the safety of that person: this is why soldiers are obligated to defend POWs.

Blogger RobertDWood August 31, 2017 8:02 AM  

Lawdy, thats funny

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