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Thursday, August 24, 2017

Priming is confirmed fake science

It's sometimes a pity that science doesn't have a simple "that's obvious BS" card. Because I absolutely would have played it when the hypothesis of "priming" was not merely hypothesized, but asserted to be solid scientific fact:
In 2011, Nobel Laureate Daniel Kahneman published a popular book, “Thinking Fast and Slow”, about an important finding in social psychology.

In the same year, questions about the trustworthiness of social psychology were raised.  A Dutch social psychologist had fabricated data. Eventually over 50 of his articles would be retracted.  Another social psychologist published results that appeared to demonstrate the ability to foresee random future events (Bem, 2011). Few researchers believed these results and statistical analysis suggested that the results were not trustworthy (Francis, 2012; Schimmack, 2012).  Psychologists started to openly question the credibility of published results.

In the beginning of 2012, Doyen and colleagues published a failure to replicate a prominent study by John Bargh that was featured in Daniel Kahneman’s book.  A few month later, Daniel Kahneman distanced himself from Bargh’s research in an open email addressed to John Bargh (Young, 2012):

“As all of you know, of course, questions have been raised about the robustness of priming results…. your field is now the poster child for doubts about the integrity of psychological research… people have now attached a question mark to the field, and it is your responsibility to remove it… all I have personally at stake is that I recently wrote a book that emphasizes priming research as a new approach to the study of associative memory…Count me as a general believer… My reason for writing this letter is that I see a train wreck looming.”

Five years later, Kahneman’s concerns have been largely confirmed. Major studies in social priming research have failed to replicate and the replicability of results in social psychology is estimated to be only 25% (OSC, 2015).

Looking back, it is difficult to understand the uncritical acceptance of social priming as a fact.  In “Thinking Fast and Slow” Kahneman wrote “disbelief is not an option. The results are not made up, nor are they statistical flukes. You have no choice but to accept that the major conclusions of these studies are true.”

Yet, Kahneman could have seen the train wreck coming. In 1971, he co-authored an article about scientists’ “exaggerated confidence in the validity of conclusions based on small samples” (Tversky & Kahneman, 1971, p. 105).  Yet, many of the studies described in Kahneman’s book had small samples.  For example, Bargh’s priming study used only 30 undergraduate students to demonstrate the effect.
I pay very little attention to "studies show" science for this reason.

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114 Comments:

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 11:56 AM  

Color me stupid, but is priming supposed to be an effect besides normal recognition? Because it sounds an awful lot like normal recognition.

Blogger Mocheirge August 24, 2017 11:59 AM  

For example, Bargh’s priming study used only 30 undergraduate students to demonstrate the effect.

Small sample size and simple-minded, easily-led test subjects. How could priming fail? The only way to have a more amenable sample is to use post-grad students instead.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:01 PM  

Oh, never mind, I found the Bargh study. This is straight retarded. It's basically literal magical thinking. I forget the exact word for it, let me see if I can find it. Affinity comes to mind, but I don't think that's quite it...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:02 PM  

Oh, there we go.

The word I was looking for was "Sympathy".

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 12:06 PM  

It is beyond astonishing how often my (teacher) wife has to adopt some new (usually a retread of some failed idea) program for teaching or classroom discipline because "data show..."

It's BS. It's BS all the way down, and essentially 100% of it defies common sense.

Whenever I see the term "evidence based" I figure what follows is actually ideology- or high-personal-profit- based.

Medicine is stuffed with this crap.

Blogger OGRE August 24, 2017 12:06 PM  

"Studies show" is right up there with "an argument can be made" as a strong indicator of a lack of convincing evidence. Any time I see either of these qualifying phrases I immediately assume the suggested conclusion as false until proven otherwise.

Blogger Ingot9455 August 24, 2017 12:10 PM  

There are incredibly well known priming effects. Like the old kid joke where you have someone say. 'Bread' ten times then ask, "What comes out of a toaster? " If he's not thinking, he'll say 'bread' when obviously it's toast that comes out, bread that goes in.

Priming is an effect of moving reflexes from long term storage to immediate access storage. Boxers shadowbox right before a bout to prime their reflexes and bring their techniques to the front. Many other examples.

The article also includes effects where the body affects the mind, like how standing up straight in an 'alpha stance' and breathing deeply strangely makes you feel better. Not really 'priming '

But the studies they refer to in the article are far more tenuous bs, like talking about old people makes you walk slow and crochety, and how walking by a poster with an old person on it will subliminally make you act old. It's the same as the idea of subliminal advertising. Which they discovered, if you hide it too much, no one sees it, really.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:10 PM  

@6. Ogre, kind of like the phrases, "With all due respect, ..." and "Just a friendly reminder, ...".

Communication red flags.

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 12:13 PM  

@Azure
I think the point was that every movie that has a black gangster as a bad guy primes people to hate all blacks, look at the science, priming is real, therefore we need constant thought policing.

Similarly, they're already declaring epigenetics to be The Hip New Science, because maybe epigenetic PTSD could explain hereditary differences in a way that's still whitey's fault, and also that we can solve if we just totally suppress all speech that hurts their feelings.

Anonymous Orville August 24, 2017 12:14 PM  

Medicine is stuffed with this crap.

Don't get me started. Evidence shows coffee is bad. Evidence shows that coffee is good. The social sciences are nothing more that poking at chicken entrails and making wild guesses.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:14 PM  

@7. Ingot9455, like I said, the unassailable parts of it can all pretty much just be called "recognition" or "training". What they actually mean by "Priming" is bat**** insanity, they just throw the obvious effects of recognition and training in there to make it look better.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 24, 2017 12:16 PM  

Disbelief is not an option. The results are not made up, nor are they statistical flukes. You have no choice but to accept that the major conclusions of these studies are true.”

Wait, does this mean "priming" was part of Global Warming? Who knew?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:17 PM  

@9. CPEG, "Similarly, they're already declaring epigenetics to be The Hip New Science, because maybe epigenetic PTSD could explain hereditary differences in a way that's still whitey's fault, and also that we can solve if we just totally suppress all speech that hurts their feelings."

B-b-but, epigenetics is practically the polar opposite of based on heredity...

Maybe you're thinking genetic memory?

Regardless, you're probably right. If it can be folded, spindled and mutilated to fit the agenda, it will be.

Anonymous Avalanche August 24, 2017 12:24 PM  

@5 Medicine is stuffed with this crap.

Surely you all must have read this in The Atlantic?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/

Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors—to a striking extent—still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging his peers by exposing their bad science.

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 12:24 PM  

Some epigenetic factors can be passed in the gametes, most notably, prolonged smoking in men can increase the obesity risk in their children.

This has been interpreted as "What if Holocaust survivors and slaves passed PTSD to their descendants, so blacks and Jews are still directly oppressed today?"

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:30 PM  

@15. CPEG, wouldn't that only last for a single generation though?

If not, shouldn't I still be dramatized for life by the enslavement of My People the Slavs by the Moslems (hence the word "Slavery") and My People the Ashkenazi Jews by the Black Egyptians?

Hmmn. Smells like potential.

Anonymous Corrox August 24, 2017 12:31 PM  

@1 "Color me stupid, but is priming supposed to be an effect besides normal recognition? Because it sounds an awful lot like normal recognition."

It goes a lot further than recognition. For instance, one experiment claimed that if you prime participants with pictures of old people they will walk slower afterwards than if you shown them pictures of young people.

The general theory is that various stimuli prepares you to do different things. Which kind of makes sense for some things, listening to heavy metal before or during working out intensely likely is good. It's just taken much too far.

Probably the reason for its popularity is because it sounds plausible and gives stupid/dishonest people a way of blaiming poor performance of holy groups on white males for priming them to do poorly. Similar to how the theory epigenetics were really popular for awhile to do the same thing.

It's actually fairly close to the idea of subliminal influencing that was popular much further back.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera August 24, 2017 12:34 PM  

Studies show...that studies don't show. The science are settle.

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 24, 2017 12:35 PM  

I do believe that epigenetics is legitimate, but there's no doubt it will be abused by the left to push heritability to the side and validate their Blank Slate vision once again.

But they're totally shameless, so there's no stopping them no matter what the actual science shows.

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 12:37 PM  

@Azure I don't know if there' even been any research on multi-generation epigenetics.

But.

What if?
I'm just saying. What IF it was all our fault, and we could only solve it through autogenocidal self-hatred and totalitarian censorship?
And Slavs are white and have white privilege, so that doesn't count. Besides, didn't you hear they oppressed immigrants by putting then on spikes?

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 24, 2017 12:39 PM  

The social "sciences" have been so totally taken over by lefties that you always have to look at any results with a gimlet eye as they're probably up to no good.

On the other hand if they can't make the results look good for their side (e.g. Putnam re: diversity) then you can be pretty sure it's solid.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 24, 2017 12:39 PM  

I think there's a subset of priming, in perceptual tasks, where effects are real and measurable. For example, if you're in a bad mood you're more likely to find negative stories in the newspaper. But the effort to generalize these findings into PERVASIVE SYSTEMIC RACISM is obviously going to fail, because the researchers are *looking* for specific results.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd August 24, 2017 12:40 PM  

CPEG wrote:I'm just saying. What IF it was all our fault, and we could only solve it through autogenocidal self-hatred and totalitarian censorship?

Another option would be to send the damaged goods back where they came from. They all have to go back, anyway.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:41 PM  

@19. Duke, I'm inclined to agree, however my understanding of epigenetics was that they function via stimuli "activating" or "deactivating" certain DNA sequences for RNA encoding, so there's no way this could persist for more than a single generation unless the encoded effects were self-reinforcing (pathologic) somehow.

Now that I've got that idea in my head, excuse me while I go parse the mind-screw potential of "sin" being pathologic epigenetic effects. This should be fun.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:42 PM  

"Besides, didn't you hear they oppressed immigrants by putting then on spikes?"

Only after the immivaders oppressed them by deposing their legitimate rulers and setting up a puppet-archy, then decapitating it (actually) repeatedly.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:44 PM  

Also, CPEG, NEVAR FOOOORGEEEET the J000s.... enslaved in Black Egypt.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 24, 2017 12:44 PM  

Interesting that within the field of psychology, psychometrics is the most replicable area, and within that area, IQ testing is the most replicable. Yet voodoo like "priming" is accepted uncritically, and IQ testing is held to be "problematic."

Also, another article from the same site-- ranking of psychology journals by replicability bears no resemblance to their ranking by impact factor. That doesn't sound good.

https://replicationindex.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/2015-replicability-ranking-of-100-psychology-journals/

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:45 PM  

For stewarding too capably, of course. I'm sure it's nothing they learned from Father Isaac and Uncle Laban's interactions.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:48 PM  

Or for that matter Jacob/Rebekah vs Esau/Isaac interactions.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 24, 2017 12:53 PM  

"On the other hand if they can't make the results look good for their side (e.g. Putnam re: diversity) then you can be pretty sure it's solid."

infogalactic.com/info/Declaration_against_interest

"But the effort to generalize these findings into PERVASIVE SYSTEMIC RACISM is obviously going to fail, because the researchers are *looking* for specific results."

Are you saying that they're primed to find those results?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 12:54 PM  

"Are you saying that they're primed to find those results?"

That's exactly what he's implying.

Now excuse me, I reaaaally need to sleep.

Anonymous Iron Spartan August 24, 2017 12:55 PM  

Social Studies are not science, no matter how much they screech. Insinuating they are is an insult to real science.

Blogger SteelPalm August 24, 2017 12:57 PM  

As a scientist for a living, I can confidently state that psychology research is a cesspool of Fake Science. Not that other fields, even the hard sciences, are completely immune to dry-labbing, lies, or the more innocent worthless/shitty research, but psychology is a trainwreck of Scalziesque proportions.

Although even I didn't expect only 25% of studies in social psychology to be reproducable. Wow. (Even 80% would be a horrible figure, incidentally)

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 1:00 PM  

Sure, if you're thinking logically. But then, they wouldn't be SJWs. As long as they can contradict what you say at least as fast as your dialectic corrections, they can maintain the illusion of intellectual and moral supremacy. And they need that to live.

Anonymous Ted Thetford August 24, 2017 1:05 PM  

Get educated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFkIG5do34I

Anonymous Charlottesvillain August 24, 2017 1:07 PM  

18-year-old children and deranged anti-empiricism Leftists find happy homes in 21st century "social sciences". Draw your own conclusions.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 24, 2017 1:10 PM  

CPEG wrote:I'm just saying. What IF it was all our fault, and we could only solve it through autogenocidal self-hatred and totalitarian censorship?
If the effect is genetic and subliminal, then self-loathing and totalitarian censorship won't fix it, as current society clearly shows.
Why, the only tenable solution is monoculturalism! We have to separate Blacks from Whites, perpetually, lest they be tainted by us.

Anonymous VFM #6306 August 24, 2017 1:16 PM  

The science will be settled after the rubble stops bouncing.

There was a study in the 1930s with more participants than the priming study above that validated ESP. Repeat studies never got anything close to the same results, so the published report showed no validation of ESP.

Of course, this was back when science was allowed to use the scientific method, instead of prize counts.

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 1:23 PM  

@Snidely
Our failure to embrace sexual diversity and our insistence on colonial oppression through white supremacist concepts like "age of consent laws" proves that we just can't coexist with other peoples. We should have our own lands, for their own good.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 24, 2017 1:39 PM  

Agreed, @CPEG. Give us a reservation or 50. It's not like we're fit for civilized society.

Anonymous praetorian August 24, 2017 1:42 PM  

Communication red flags.

"Honestly, ..."

I see this passive-aggressive tic online all the time. Drives me f'n nuts (which might be the point).

Are you not normally honest? Quit ye like men!

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr August 24, 2017 1:43 PM  

There's engineering, there's speculation, and there's superstition. "Social science" is the latter.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain August 24, 2017 1:47 PM  

Napoleon 12pdr wrote:There's engineering, there's speculation, and there's superstition. "Social science" is the latter.

Mythology: A set of stories or beliefs about a particular person, institution, or situation, especially when exaggerated or fictitious.

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 1:48 PM  

@Snidely As a white man, it is obvious from history that we deserve to go extinct.

And since I have been reliably informed that white nations need multiculturalism if they are to survive, the solution is obvious.

Anonymous map August 24, 2017 1:51 PM  

Kahneman himself is a bullshitter. The famous example of the bank teller and the feminist is a perfect example of weasel word methodology being used to meaning out of empirical evidence.

The man's name can literally be mispronounced as "Con-man."

Anonymous Panzer Man August 24, 2017 1:52 PM  

There's a photo of a black soldier somewhere in Africa munching on an enemy's severed leg. How the hell was this primitive critter primed to act like that by eeeeevil whites while living for its entire life among its own kind in some remote s***hole?

"Whites make everyone else do bad/stupid stuff" is just the latest witchcraft craze. White skin is the sign of the witch! It can curse you with its sorcery -- er, privilege -- just by being alive! Burn the witch -- er, kill Whitey!

Blogger Dedd Sirius August 24, 2017 2:00 PM  

It's about time to establish a White Anti Defamation League (WADL) to counteract the corrosive anti-white, anti-western agitation by the JADL.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 24, 2017 2:00 PM  

@46 Primed by a KFC ad, obviously.

Blogger Kentucky Headhunter August 24, 2017 2:01 PM  

I've recently become somewhat fond of "studies show". The quickest way to get an SJW to shut up is to use that phrase. Why? Because they're almost all lacking any real knowledge on any serious subject and they (secretly) know it. If one of them tries "studies show" on me my rejoinder is the triple-dog dare "ACTUALLY studies show" which no can be defeated.

Blogger Lovekraft August 24, 2017 2:14 PM  

@49: or use the expression 'from what I gather' to indicate your position that anything you get pegged on can be explained as not having enough info, referring to the opening statement.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 2:15 PM  

@ Avalanche, Dr. Loannidis should save his breath; nothing of substance has changed since Semmelweis' times. Talk about closed minds...

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 2:22 PM  

@ praetorian,
People often say honest when they mean frank. The problem is our shrinking vocabulary within Idiocracy.

Pretty soon teens won't be able to text because you can't keystroke grunts.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 24, 2017 2:29 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:Pretty soon teens won't be able to text because you can't keystroke grunts.
meh
D'oh!

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 2:30 PM  

I prefer, "in my opinion."
In my world, there are
Opinions
Axioms
Hypotheses with finite amounts of support.

The last is never more than a blend of opinion & "as best we can tell."

A vast house of cards arose these recent decades based on turning the last one into "because we told you so," the answer a parent gives a small child.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 2:32 PM  

Snidely, future keyboards will only have five keys. People won't be able to count past the number of fingers on the hand they can see (the other hand is holding the phone.)

Anonymous BBGKB August 24, 2017 2:36 PM  

Another social psychologist published results that appeared to demonstrate the ability to foresee random future events

I see major chimpouts ahead when the Cville guy who killed a cat lady walks because the jury saw 5 secs before FAKE NEWS with his car being beat

I pay very little attention to "studies show" science for this reason.

I believe the one about studies show diabetics who shove more bad food into their pie holes than metformin can handle are more likely to lose limbs, but (((Better call Saul))) shouldn't be able to sue for those taking stronger/more expensive/riskier meds.


OT: ACLU apologizes for twaating a pic of a little blond girl
https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/900459882989600768

To be fair no one on the right wants to see little blond girls to be walking around without parents nearby as much as Lena Dunham & John Podesta. I guess ACLU didn't feel comfortable explaining themselves

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club August 24, 2017 2:50 PM  

I'm just saying. What IF it was all our fault, and we could only solve it through autogenocidal self-hatred and totalitarian censorship?

How about a program of highly experimental and dangerous genetic engineering to see if we can "free" these poor benighted sufferers from the bonds of their forebears' horrific existences? Could be fun.

Blogger mark auld August 24, 2017 2:51 PM  

After the rubble stops bouncing. ..that's when reality and science hit the fan.

Blogger Quadko August 24, 2017 3:08 PM  

They say to make fortune cookies funnier, append the words "in bed" to it.
To make science more accurate, append "in a group of doped up 20 year olds" to the phrase "studies show", as in:
Studies show, in a group of doped up 20 year olds, Yoga can help to treat depression.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain August 24, 2017 3:24 PM  

Quadko wrote:They say to make fortune cookies funnier, append the words "in bed" to it.

To make science more accurate, append "in a group of doped up 20 year olds" to the phrase "studies show", as in:

Studies show, in a group of doped up 20 year olds, Yoga can help to treat depression.

Use their language against them; demand diversity of participants.
The study is inadmissible unless it's inclusive, with gobs of deplorable out-of-work factory workers.
They must bus them in to the university study site.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 3:25 PM  

To be fair no one on the right wants to see little blond girls to be walking around without parents nearby as much as Lena Dunham & John Podesta. I guess ACLU didn't feel comfortable explaining themselves

I see an entertaining intersection between the "bait car" concept, Japanese sexbots that are 3 feet tall with long blonde hair, and 440 volt electricity.

Blogger pyrrhus August 24, 2017 3:27 PM  

Yes, in The Undoing Project (Michael Lewis), a big point is made about Tversky and Kahneman having taught statistics, and questioning small sample results (with Tversky confessing that he had fallen for some of the "studies" too), but the lesson doesn't seem to have stuck....In Physics, for example, massive amounts of replication are required before unusual results are given full credence...

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 3:32 PM  

Isn't much of this a case of trying to spread the same testable, repeatable principles found in mechanical engineering to social engineering?

"Scientific" socialism, indeed.

These clowns really envision engineering New Man, with Job One constituted by having all guilty of Bad Thoughts lobomized.

All Nazi thoughts must end, which in practice means every human on Earth save one gets a lobotomy.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 3:42 PM  

Did I misinterpret Kahneman's point? It sounds like he argued that adding a bunch of small samples together can yield useful information, something I thought honest statisticians rejected out of hand.

We're awash in meta-analyses that are the epitome of lying with figures.

Silly me, it's all "settled science," and all professional (grant-supported) people who claim to be scientists agree with the consensus. Why is anyone wasting time or money to replicate what consensus tells us is established fact?

In other news, socialists tell us that competition just wastes money and causes duplication.

Blogger Silly but True August 24, 2017 3:44 PM  

Silly social psychologists: L. Ron discovered priming half a century ago. People are primed because they retain the thetans of the people Xenu eradicated with atomics 60 trillion years ago.

Ok. Maybe Hubbard's theory is the more credible one than Bargh's.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 August 24, 2017 4:04 PM  

"priming"? Gosh, sounds just like "grooming" in another Social Science/ Social Justice" field.
CaptDMO

Blogger szopen August 24, 2017 4:14 PM  

In the meantime: f*, there is a possibility of first terrorist attack in Poland. It's hard to say anything certain right now, but "Arab-looking" individual, confirmed citizenship of Israel, attacked policemen with knife in Poland. Policemen was wounded, his life is in no danger.

If this will be confirmed - because right know we don't know, this could be some deranged or drunken individual, not terrorist - this could be first terrorist attack in Poland since... I don't know, 1905 or so. In this world of open borders no country seems to be safe from crazy people.

Anonymous Icicle August 24, 2017 4:39 PM  

The social "sciences" have been so totally taken over by lefties that you always have to look at any results with a gimlet eye as they're probably up to no good.

Yes. It really is a pain as I read through them. Sadly even some physics areas have this now.

Anonymous CPEG August 24, 2017 4:52 PM  

"Sadly even some physics areas have this now."

... Please explain.

Anonymous JAG August 24, 2017 5:03 PM  

CPEG wrote:"Sadly even some physics areas have this now."

... Please explain.


The colossal waste of resources that is string theory and especially multiverse theory. They are both make work for physicists on the government dole/welfare.

There's also the increasing evidence that Einstein was wrong so unicorns and fairy dust like dark matter and dark energy are invented to rescue relativity which is already ruled out by Zeno's Paradox on logical grounds anyway.

Blogger Matthew August 24, 2017 5:09 PM  


In “Thinking Fast and Slow” Kahneman wrote “disbelief is not an option. The results are not made up, nor are they statistical flukes. You have no choice but to accept that the major conclusions of these studies are true.”


Uh, yeah. Sure. Totally not a liar.

Anonymous daddynichol August 24, 2017 5:09 PM  

While this comment is not about priming specifically, I do believe it's relevant to the discussion.

Social sciences, especially psychology and psychiatry, are just high level quackery. Not long ago, the profilers in the FBI and other behaviorial experts we're positive that the DC Sniper was white, angry and uneducated.
They were wrong. Very wrong.

Blogger Matthew August 24, 2017 5:10 PM  

map wrote:The man's name can literally be mispronounced as "Con-man."

That's not the first thing I thought of when I saw his name.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 24, 2017 5:13 PM  

Here's some priming for the meme artists out there:

The new face of white supremacy

Anonymous Grayman August 24, 2017 5:14 PM  

@46 Panzer

There's a photo of a black soldier somewhere in Africa munching on an enemy's severed leg

https://paworldandtimes.wordpress.com/2017/04/19/what-the-talented-tenth-are-running-from/

Yes, that is what the west is importing full bore.

Blogger tublecane August 24, 2017 5:16 PM  

"In the same year, questions about the trustworthiness of social psychology were raised"

When were questions about its trustworthiness ever lowered? Which is to ask, when did it ever become trustworthy? I never trusted it, or even thought of it as a real intellectual discipline, let alone a science.

But I guess since people pay good money for it, and it gets put in books that actually get sold, people had been taking it seriously.

Anonymous Grayman August 24, 2017 5:24 PM  

@DC and crowd

a fun chart someone put up in the cannibals comments

https://paworldandtimes.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/gr6.jpg

Its probably a fairly accurate.


@70 JAG
When physics moved away from experimentation and towards theoretical math it was bound to jump the tracks. A talented mathematician can justify all sorts of wondrous suppositions but they have little meaning in relation to the real world until observed.

Im an engineer not a physicist, but it would be interesting to see the main stream run some of the experiments the Electric universe guys propose. Their ideas on comets seems to be more accurate then the mainstream from the recent comet encounters.

Anonymous Jeff Kent August 24, 2017 5:37 PM  

More white supremacist violence

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/24/us/charleston-active-shooter/index.html

Blogger Johnny August 24, 2017 5:38 PM  

CPEG wrote:"Sadly even some physics areas have this now."

... Please explain.


By way of example, the settled science in global warming. Looks to be at least 90% fraud.

Blogger Johnny August 24, 2017 5:44 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:@ praetorian,

People often say honest when they mean frank.


Or to put frankly another way, "This is not intended as a deleberate insult."

Or it can mean I am not pandering to your vanity, as in, "Honestly, you really do have a way with words."

Or it can mean you are kidding yourself or lying, as in, "Honestly, you believe that?"

Anonymous BBGKB August 24, 2017 5:52 PM  

By way of example, the settled science in global warming. Looks to be at least 90% fraud.

Oy vey its so hot that sea levels dropped the last 2 years, that will make them rising even worse.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-27/nasa-confirms-falling-sea-levels-two-years-amidst-media-blackout


OT: We should have a poster contest for anyone going to the women's indivisible march on the 26th in most states
my submission:

Pretty girls leave feminism
before your only options are
(Loser, dyke, brown or black) + cats

Anonymous grayman August 24, 2017 5:53 PM  

Global warming, while a complete scam has been excellent for the justification and facilitation of asset stripping the west and transferring our industrial base to China and India

Blogger Resident Moron™ August 24, 2017 6:03 PM  

OT: Woman Lies About Rapes By 15 Men, Women Worst Affected

Prosecutor Madeleine Wolfe told the court police spent 6,400 hours investigating Beale's lies at a cost of at least £250,000, and the trial cost at least £109,000.

"Cases such as this bring a real risk that a woman who has been raped or sexually assaulted does not complain to the police for fear of not being believed", the judge added.

"False allegations are likely to have the perverse impact of increasing the likelihood of guilty men going free."


Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 6:06 PM  

I hear Ayn Rand's character in "Mozart Was a Red" saying "check your premises" instead of "honestly, you actually believe that?"

Honestly, isn't that an improvement? (Grin)

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 6:11 PM  

Dr. Mercola had a column up today about how loneliness is more life-shortening than obesity & smoking.

He writes: An estimated 42.6 million Americans over the age of 45 suffer from chronic loneliness, and census data reveals more than 25 percent of the U.S. population lives alone.

Feminism leads to a solitary life.

Feminism literally kills.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 24, 2017 6:14 PM  

So what about false allegations having the effect of innocent men being imprisoned?

Apparently NOT perverse at all. Feature, not a bug. Blackstone weeps.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 24, 2017 6:27 PM  

I've yet to see a prosecutor concerned that an innocent man will go to prison.

Ever.

Anonymous Icicle August 24, 2017 6:32 PM  

"Sadly even some physics areas have this now."

... Please explain.


What those replies all said, plus guys like this just making sh*t up:
https://infogalactic.com/info/Sch%C3%B6n_scandal

That's just the ones they know about. I bet there is more (especially with China).

Another of my favorites (not really physics, but still hard science):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk


Oy vey its so hot that sea levels dropped the last 2 years, that will make them rising even worse.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-27/nasa-confirms-falling-sea-levels-two-years-amidst-media-blackout


What the actual f*ck?

Anonymous Icicle August 24, 2017 6:42 PM  

There will be some innocent victims in this fight against Fascist agents. We are launching a major attack on the Enemy; let there be no resentment if we bump someone with an elbow. Better that ten innocent people should suffer than one spy get away. When you chop wood, chips fly. - Nikolai Yezhov, during the Great Purge

Blogger Cecil Henry August 24, 2017 7:39 PM  

Listen Guido:

Studies will show EXACTLY what we WANT them to show.

Capice???

Blogger GraceIronwood August 24, 2017 7:42 PM  

Reminds me of the Implicit Bias "research".

Blogger GraceIronwood August 24, 2017 7:44 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Oh, there we go.

The word I was looking for was "Sympathy".


Or "Sympathetic Magic" ?

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents August 24, 2017 7:47 PM  

Oy vey its so hot that sea levels dropped the last 2 years, that will make them rising even worse

Mr. Triggered has an explanation, I'm sure. It will be tl;dr for me.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 24, 2017 8:49 PM  

A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents wrote:Mr. Triggered has an explanation, I'm sure. It will be tl;dr for me.
No, he'll have a bunch of name calling and a claim that we simply don't understand anything.

And 40 paragraphs of rationalization. Can't leave that out.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents August 24, 2017 8:59 PM  

people have now attached a question mark to the field,

It would be better to attach a millstone to the field.
Then drop it into the Mariana Trench.

Anonymous grayman August 24, 2017 9:20 PM  

@A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents

I have a fancy new plasma gasifier at hand. Might be fun to try a new feedstock!

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 24, 2017 10:45 PM  

Icicle wrote:Sadly even some physics areas have this now.
They'll never get as crackpottish as the electric-universers and flat-earthers.

Grayman wrote:Im an engineer not a physicist, but it would be interesting to see the main stream run some of the experiments the Electric universe guys propose. Their ideas on comets seems to be more accurate then the mainstream from the recent comet encounters.
I'm an engineer with a crapload of physics under my belt, and I'm wondering how you could be bonkers enough to take that stuff the least bit seriously.  But do explain.

Johnny wrote:By way of example, the settled science in global warming. Looks to be at least 90% fraud.
Exxon-Mobil's own internal studies backed the IPCC, while their advertorials sold "not proven".

Note that XOM followed the exact same script as the oil companies about tetraethyl lead and the tobacco companies about the dangers of smoke and the addictive nature of nicotine.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 10:55 PM  

@92. Grace, Exactly.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 24, 2017 11:02 PM  

@97. Rational, you're the poster boy for IYI, as we've noted before.

The problem with the whole Global Warming thing is that anyone with even a basic grasp of certain dynamics, such as Ozone replacement, Floral growth/inhibition based on gas concentrations, and relatively recent recorded history (!) etc. can see right through it. Everything beyond that point just becomes rapidly more absurd and intentionally disingenuous.

As for Electric Universe... I don't know anything about it, but just from the title I'd lean towards it being an oversimplification hypothesis.

Blogger Thad tuiol August 25, 2017 1:20 AM  

"Disbelief is not an option. The results are not made up, nor are they statistical flukes. You have no choice but to accept that the major conclusions of these studies are true.”

Anyone who adopts that tone with me can GTFO right away.

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Anonymous Ain August 25, 2017 2:38 AM  

"Global warming, while a complete scam has been excellent for the justification and facilitation of asset stripping the west and transferring our industrial base to China and India"

That's the purpose behind inventing it.

Blogger trigger warning August 25, 2017 7:32 AM  

Bargh's "social" priming is garbage, as is virtually all of social psychology. Priming in lexical decision making is not (see Schvaneveldt. In fact, it is an essential factor for memory operations in fluent reading. Failing to make the distinction is garbage, too.

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 25, 2017 9:00 AM  

Icicle wrote:Sadly even some physics areas have this now.

Yes, our whole society is corrupt and rotten from head to toe. There's almost nothing I trust these days. Very few areas of life are not rife with political implications, and thus lefty corruption. Question everything.

As for string theory, etc. I have all along been very skeptical, though I have no expertise. My B.S. alarms just ring loud when I hear this stuff.

I remain open, as with (just about) everything, but I'll not be surprised in the least if this stuff is roundly refuted in my lifetime.

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 25, 2017 9:01 AM  

Matthew wrote:Uh, yeah. Sure. Totally not a liar.

Say it isn't (((so)))!

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 25, 2017 10:51 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:The problem with the whole Global Warming thing is that anyone with even a basic grasp
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."  Your grasp is TOO basic and leaves you unable to understand second-order effects.

anyone with even a basic grasp of certain dynamics, such as Ozone replacement, Floral growth/inhibition based on gas concentrations, and relatively recent recorded history (!) etc. can see right through it.
The biosphere at large is not carefully cultivated, fertilized and watered.  Anyone whose knowledge base doesn't include Liebig's law of the minimum is going to reach the wrong conclusion every time.

Know what our most effective climate-change mitigation program has been?  The Montreal Protocol.  CFC levels in the atmosphere have peaked and are now falling slowly.

Everything beyond that point just becomes rapidly more absurd and intentionally disingenuous.
This is the kind of thing I see from Black people.  If they don't understand something you say, they assume that you're stupid or lying.  It comes from being a low-trust race and assuming that everyone is like them.  That's evolutionarily stable but makes them unfit for civilization.

You should be better than that.  You especially shouldn't be getting your "education" from the caricatures and half-truths put out by the propagandists of the fossil-fuel interests.

Ain wrote:That's the purpose behind inventing it.
You think Svante Arrhenius was trying to take over the world with his 1896 paper?

You spout utterly anti-factual, a-historical nonsense and even clubbing you over the head with facts can't get you to take a second look.  MPAI, indeed.

What you are is a herd animal.  You need to spout the shibboleths to stay in good standing with your herd.  Say "baa".

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 25, 2017 11:53 AM  

@107 Mr. Triggered
What you are is a herd animal. You need to spout the shibboleths to stay in good standing with your herd. Say "baa".

How ironic.

Blogger Rosabie August 25, 2017 12:10 PM  

very good. only 11 paragraphs. He's got himself under control. Almost.

Blogger tublecane August 25, 2017 6:43 PM  

@85-The title of (((Saul Bellow)))'s novel More Die of Heartbreak derives from a line of dialogue from an expert botanist being pressed to shill for a guy who's promoting the idea that civilizational decay was caused by lead poisoning. It's a similar idea.

I can easily believe more people die of loneliness and heartbreak than purely physical causes.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 25, 2017 10:24 PM  

A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:How ironic.
I'm the one here, in territory quite hostile to the ideas I'm advocating... and you're accusing me of following the herd.  Ironic, yes.  But you can't see it.

Rosabie wrote:very good. only 11 paragraphs. He's got himself under control. Almost.
I kept the longest one down to 4 concise sentences so you could understand it.

Blogger James Dixon August 26, 2017 10:03 AM  

> I'm the one here, in territory quite hostile to the ideas I'm advocating... and you're accusing me of following the herd. Ironic, yes. But you can't see it.

I do have to grant that point. :) And you at do at least try to back up your arguments with actual scientific information.

You're still wrong, of course, but your courage and sincerity are not in doubt.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 26, 2017 12:04 PM  

Don't just tell me I'm wrong.  Show me how I'm wrong.  (I'm afraid that the propaganda war has long since passed the point where web sites written by hostiles can be trusted; as error-filled as they may be, peer-reviewed papers are the least that's required to make a serious case).

I've changed my mind based on evidence before.  Let's have some.

But be open to changing your own mind as well.  Blathering about how the whole thing is the creation of Al Gore is risible when Arrhenius wrote his paper 52 years before AGjr was born.  If the former was so good with time travel, he should have done something useful and killed Hitler in his cradle or something.

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