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Wednesday, August 16, 2017

On the Fake Right

Neither neocons nor national socialists are of the ideological Right. Both groups are 100 percent Fake Right and rely upon deceit to try to worm their way into the genuine Right to drum up support on the basis of a few points of commonality because they are defeated left-wing factions.

This is nothing new. I was writing about this in 2004.

"Over a third of the 1920 Munich Manifesto precisely matched goals put forth by the American Democratic party, and that percentage more than doubled if one eliminates the historical aspects of the Nazi platform that simply have no application today." 

And before that, in 2003, I looked at the ideological spectrum on a party-by-party basis.

The most common error is to postulate a Communist left-wing extreme opposed by an extreme Nazi right wing. Not only does this leave out a substantial body of political and philosophical thought, but the construction falls apart the moment the two socialist ideologies are compared. Any reasonable comparison inevitably forces the confused advocates of such a definition to assert that the spectrum is actually a circle, in which case the terms left and right, much less left-wing and right-wing, are wholly nonsensical.

Nor is the original usage of much utility today, since it represented the fundamental division of the pre-revolutionary French national assembly. Since very few nations feature a monarchy these days, and even fewer political parties espouse positions with regards to the Bourbon kings, this definition is now defunct. And the notion of basing the spectrum on progress, of course, begs the Marxian question. In other words, progress toward what? The worker’s paradise?

To find a stronger foundation for a proper political spectrum, it is necessary to delve into intellectual history. Looking back to ancient Greece, one finds striking similarities between the collectivism of Plato’s Republic and modern leftist thought. And likewise, the close relationship between the Aristotelian regard for the individual, the American Bill of Rights and today’s Libertarian Party is equally hard to escape.

Taking this fundamental dichotomy between the supremacy of the community and the primacy of the individual as a starting point, it becomes relatively easy to determine where an individual or party happens to fall on the political spectrum if communism is accepted as the anchoring point for the extreme left wing. The figure below illustrates where some of the most familiar political philosophies fall upon the spectrum based on an analysis of what I consider to be the ten most significant elements affecting individuals and their relationship to their government, followed by a point-by-point breakdown of how these positions were determined.

The ten issues were: Religious Freedom, Right to Life, Gun Control, State Money Standard, Private Property, Freedom of the Press, National Sovereignty, Standing Army, State Schools, Central State Authority

The totals:

00 COMMUNIST
15 NATIONAL SOCIALIST
36 DEMOCRAT
52 REPUBLICAN
85 LIBERTARIAN

This is conclusive evidence that all National Socialists and all Alt-Reichtards are 100 percent Fake Right. They are not only to the Left of the Republicans, they are observably to the Left of the Democratic Party and the DNC.

Nor is the claim that they are pro-white even remotely convincing. First, the German national socialists killed more white people than anyone but their fellow left-wingers, the Communists. Second, the overwhelming majority of genuine national socialists in the world today are not white at all, they are Asian and Arab. And the Chinese version of national socialism both preceded and survived the German version.


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235 Comments:

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Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass August 16, 2017 7:34 AM  

Bbbb bbbut the National Holocaust Museum says the Nazis were right wing!!!!

Solid quantitative numbers on them all, Vox.

Just spoke to the gf: all her brother's injuries are internal and brain pressure isn't dropping. The earliest a priest can get there to baptize him is 11:30. Thanks to all who prayed yesterday.

Blogger Tallen August 16, 2017 7:35 AM  

VD, given your shift over the last decade and a half from libertarian to alt-right political leanings, would you change the scale from how you described it in 2003? For example, instead of using political parties, perhaps replacing them with representative nations or nation-states during a block of history?

Anonymous Muh free market August 16, 2017 7:36 AM  

A key plank of the National Socialist platform was "We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts)

See Trump's tweet today about Amazon this morning...

Also: "Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery." OY VEY!

"We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality."

"We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race."

"We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order."

"We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press.

Blogger maniacprovost August 16, 2017 7:37 AM  

The most useful definition of "left wing" and "right wing" in the USA fromm WWII to 2008 were
left-wing: utilitarian ethics / ends justify means
right-wing: rights ethics / process oriented

Which isn't necessarily correct but as far as accurately capturing all the groups it worked. However I believe this definition may be losing relevance as other factors are becoming bigger political issues.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 16, 2017 7:39 AM  

Hitler was essentially a hippie with an army uniform. The big difference in his platform and the modern Left's is his utopia was to be ushered in by the chosen people, the Aryans. Replace that noun and change Hitler's ethnicity (say, generic "brown") and you have a modern Democrat in the US.

Nazism is a convergence of paganism with 19th century Progressive Marxism, where eugenics was needed to usher in the socialist paradise (one of the justifications for Planned Parenthood). Modern Progressives are basically followers of Hitlerism, just with a different ethnic group in mind.

Also, I do find the link between Plato and the 20th century Left's metaphysics to be pretty strong, especially in regards to Lacan and Zizek's unknowable "Real." Plato's "geometric forms" and all that.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 16, 2017 7:41 AM  

POST: Hitler also wanted to basically kill off much of what we would consider the white race. Slavs were dirty and to be eradicated; "white" Americans he felt were mongrels of whom only a few could live.

He should be the Progressive Left's hero, really.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 7:42 AM  

VD, given your shift over the last decade and a half from libertarian to alt-right political leanings, would you change the scale from how you described it in 2003? For example, instead of using political parties, perhaps replacing them with representative nations or nation-states during a block of history?

Yes. But I don't have time at the moment. And regardless of how you shuffle things around or tweak them, the same general results will entail. The biggest single mistake that the Alt-Reich made in trying to respin their claimed ideology is that there are much larger parties that are active today and provide much more legitimate definitions of National Socialism than they do.

Blogger McChuck August 16, 2017 7:42 AM  

So, to be alt-right, one simply has to stand to the right of the current Republican party. That shouldn't be difficult, as they are simply Democrat minus twenty years.

Anonymous Dems Are Da Real Nahzees August 16, 2017 7:43 AM  

"And likewise, the close relationship between the Aristotelian regard for the individual, the American Bill of Rights and today’s Libertarian Party is equally hard to escape."

Jeffrey Tucker is extremely right wing. He believes priests should marry trannie couples inside every Taco Bell.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera August 16, 2017 7:46 AM  

Individualism works well enough for civilians, presuming we mean individual fathers acting in the rational interests of their families. The Nazis' mistake was to assume every Aryan would forever be a part of the war effort, keeping the conquered slave peoples in line and enjoying aristocratic status. This is nonsense but it follows from fascism.

The opposite mistake os the curse of the neanderthal. Those who refuse to organize in large groups will be replaced by those who do. Therefore individual economic production must be subservient to national strength.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 16, 2017 7:47 AM  

Since, apparently it's a thing, just remember to punch an Alt-Left Nazi if you see one.

That's what the kids are saying, right? :)

Blogger McChuck August 16, 2017 7:47 AM  

The difference between libertarians and alt-right is one of active versus passive. Once you determine that rights and liberties can't be passively defended, you are well on your way to the alt-right.

The majority of Americans are (little-L) libertarians, whether they think of themselves that way or not. They simply want to be left alone, and to leave others alone in peace. They don't want government to get in their way, but are not adverse to the concept of a safety net. (We used to call the safety net 'charity', and it was administered by the churches and other, local, civic organizations.)

So, if we want to grow our numbers, we should focus on means to wake up the populace to the need for action. Which will not be easy, as the defining trait of that large group is inactivity. 90% of progress is accomplished when somebody gets sufficiently pissed off at something to get off their duff and do something about it. So, along that principle, a lot of people are going to have to get really annoyed before a substantial proportion of the people join in the cause.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera August 16, 2017 7:48 AM  

I make it my business to learn from the neanderthals' big mistakes.

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 7:56 AM  

It sounds like there should be a chart something like this:

--------Establishment
-------------|
Left-----------------------Right
-------------|
---------Challengers

The current Establishment is Globalist which is by nature Leftist.

Challengers would be:
Alt-Right(West)- Right
Right Libertarian - Right
Left Libertarian - Left
Bernie Sanders Socialist - Left
National Socialist - Left
Various Marxist flavors - Left

Something like this anyway.

Blogger Old Ez August 16, 2017 7:58 AM  

Man, this is why conservatives and right-wing ideologues are and always will be perpetual losers. They can't just take a victory for their side and run with it, they have to turn it into a signal fest and start shooting at their own side. Sad! Losers! Good thing no one important reads or cares about the effete, over-boiled intellectual schlock on display in this article.

OpenID paworldandtimes August 16, 2017 8:00 AM  

Lawrence Auster's deathbed blog post is a touchstone of the Right:

My highest beliefs

I have had this thought going back decades.

I believe in two things: God, and white Western civilization.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:01 AM  

Man, this is why conservatives and right-wing ideologues are and always will be perpetual losers. They can't just take a victory for their side and run with it, they have to turn it into a signal fest and start shooting at their own side. Sad! Losers! Good thing no one important reads or cares about the effete, over-boiled intellectual schlock on display in this article.

You're not on our side, you're just a Fake Right parasite. You guys are rapidly going the way of your fellow national socialists in the Quốc Dân Đảng.

Anonymous Magus August 16, 2017 8:04 AM  

Yeah. For people coming from an Objectivist background like myself, this is how we tend to characterise things. We tend to fall "right" of Libertarians on this scale you describe (well, those of us who spill-over into all-out Anarcho-Capitalism go right off the deep end).

But then Nationalism is interesting. It throws a spanner in the works that I'm not sure how to reconcile. My politics centres around the individual and the need to protect his values but... I think it's correct to say that "atomistic individualism" is the problem. Treating yourself as if you came into existence ex-nihilo, and that everything you're capable of doing - that *who you are* - is a product of your culture and your history.

The structure of society can't come down to just "freedom of the individual" because this grossly ignores everything that made that individual possible. For one thing: your free expression wouldn't have been possible (speaking to a hypothetical person like myself here) if your great-great-grandparents had invited in everyone from the Colonies to live here. The very things that make individualism possible require society to be structured in a certain way. They are pre-requisites (and, given how fond my fellow Objectivists are of talking about conceptual pre-reqs, I'm surprised they don't get this).

Anyway, yeah, Nazis: agreed. They're socialists. They were about subsuming the individual into the grand project of reinvigorating Germany. Maybe they were misguided, maybe they were evil in their intent, maybe a mixture of the two (I'm too ignorant to say, but I lean towards a 70/30 mix of Evil to Misguided for the Party, and vice-versa for the general Civilian). But yeah. Heck, look at how much Leftists in America admired the civil engineering projects Hitler was engaged in to reinvigorate the country. It's all part of the same thing: subsume the individual in order to improve the overall condition.

Blogger Old Ez August 16, 2017 8:05 AM  

You're locked in here with us, VD, not the other way around. Your movement belongs to us and we can do with it whatever we please because we started it and it is us that control its destiny. If you want to have a say, abandon the safety and security of your European redoubt and come home to start actually putting some skin in the game.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 16, 2017 8:09 AM  

"Neither neocons nor national socialists are of the ideological Right"

(((Neocons))) are not an ideological group, of course. Their "ideology" is "Is it good for the Tribe?"

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:10 AM  

You're locked in here with us, VD, not the other way around. Your movement belongs to us and we can do with it whatever we please because we started it and it is us that control its destiny. If you want to have a say, abandon the safety and security of your European redoubt and come home to start actually putting some skin in the game.

You're failing to understand the reality, being a Fake Right fantasist. We're not in with you at all. You have literally nothing to do with us. And you didn't start anything.

You're locked in with the pan-Arabists and the pan-Chinese who have carried the torch for your movement since the 1940s.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 8:11 AM  

My question remains: Can a political movement be entirely "negative?"

There is no visible path ahead leading to a non-democratic polity (e.g., monarchy, which is the privately owned state.) We know that mass democracy is Full Left, all the time, as it will 100% ALWAYS eventually turn into what we have today, where the loudest mouths seize the top-line while the thieves (corporatism) buy the best government money can purchase.

The only nation to have done a fair job of implementing democracy is Switzerland, which is why it is the oldest constitutional republic. It survived, I submit, by giving a HUGE veto power to very small units of government. It is also TINY compared to these dinosaur-sized hundred-millions or even billion-plus citizen nation-states with which we're afflicted.

So what IS the Alt-Right fighting for?
- Is it simply to roll back the Left Lunacy of these last 50-100 years?
- Or is it to quite literally see North American politics move toward a more successful Swiss model, which would require the break-up of the USA (and Canada, for that matter) into much smaller polities with dramatically larger citizen-level vetoes over the f-ing clowns we inevitably send to political office?

Both goals are massive. Both goals will come into focus ONLY after this Empire of Debt crumbles like the Twin Towers, into a pile of debris and a dust cloud. But the latter, which I submit IS the ultimate path that will be taken, is a project of a century or centuries.

Blogger Stilicho August 16, 2017 8:13 AM  

Socialism is the Devil's version of teamwork.

Blogger Aaron Swenson August 16, 2017 8:13 AM  

Is this satire or what? I can't tell anymore...

Http://www.altleft.com

" If the AltRight and Antifa groups are to have skirmishes, they should take the form of squirt gun battles, their classic Super Soaker 50s and translucent squirt guns, filled not with bleach but with Hi-C, Tang and Capri Sun. Yeah that’s right, the red pill is for squares. The AltLeft is all about the orange pill."

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 8:13 AM  

I guess a question I have is... What do people today find in National Socialism that they're not getting anywhere else? What is the ideological attraction? Is there an alternative?

Anonymous Jordi August 16, 2017 8:15 AM  

While it is slightly ff topic, today's meme from MEMEWARS was so shitty and counterproductive that it might be recycled as alt-left propaganda.

This shitty meme presented antifa hate groups as WW2 heroes.

Anonymous Dems Are Real Right Wingers August 16, 2017 8:15 AM  

"And likewise, the close relationship between the Aristotelian regard for the individual, the American Bill of Rights and today’s Libertarian Party is equally hard to escape."

Jeffrey Tucker is extremely right wing. He believes in trannie priests marrying Muslims in every Taco Bell. Because individualist.

Blogger Ransom Smith August 16, 2017 8:18 AM  

I make it my business to learn from the neanderthals' big mistakes

Jealous of the Ayran master race. Typical.

Hitler was still a moron who belonged in a hippie commune. Bismark is the one the Alt Reich wants to emulate. That mustache alone.

But they're not exceptionally bright.

Blogger Alexamenos August 16, 2017 8:18 AM  

Issues of centralized authority, gun control, etc., etc... are secondary.

The left believes your pre-pubescent kids need hormone treatment therapy, that female impersonators ought to be able to crap in the little girls room and most importantly that your former community needs to be flooded with Somalians.

On which side of these issues do the alt-reich / alt-retards stand?

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 8:20 AM  

I submit that the Alt-Right is pre-coalescence politics. The Alt-Right is today an expression of "WTF happened to us?!" (wrt the leftist LUNACY of open borders, replacement citizens, blank slate biological denialism, trannies-in-the-bathroom, etc.)

The Alt-Right doesn't yet have a coherent "This is our destination because, quite seriously, it is a political "movement" that sees around the next corner, not well enough to know how to turn, but knowing for damn certain that the denouement of today's Left-Lunacy/Empire-of-Debt madness will REQUIRE A NEW SET OF DIRECTIONS.

When the trust necessary to sustain all this borrowing/spending/fantasy-wealth evaporates, it will BE THE BOTTOM. Doubling down will be impossible, there won't be any DOWN to double into. Then will the RIGHT (not the Alt anything) will be the ONLY alternative. How that current fog turns into clear vision will be an experience no one has had in numerous centuries.

Blogger Ransom Smith August 16, 2017 8:20 AM  

Or is it to quite literally see North American politics move toward a more successful Swiss model

This one. The 50 state union won't work long term. Smaller and homogeneous is the future.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:21 AM  

You'll be banned and spammed for lying, Old Ez, if you keep this up.

I have already issued a challenge to your Fake Right leaders and Greg Johnson has accepted. He will argue that National Socialists are of the Right.

Your posturing is irrelevant. We'll settle this openly and in public for everyone to determine for themselves.

Anonymous chedolf August 16, 2017 8:23 AM  

This exemplifies Steve Sailer's aphorism "libertarianism is applied autism."

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:23 AM  

I warned you, Old Ez. You're banned and spammed.

Take your Fake Right nonsense and see if you can sell it to the Daily Kos. They have far more in common with you.

Blogger Desdichado August 16, 2017 8:26 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:So what IS the Alt-Right fighting for?

- Is it simply to roll back the Left Lunacy of these last 50-100 years?

- Or is it to quite literally see North American politics move toward a more successful Swiss model, which would require the break-up of the USA (and Canada, for that matter) into much smaller polities with dramatically larger citizen-level vetoes over the f-ing clowns we inevitably send to political office?

- Yes. One thing at a time. Let's absolutely start with this.

- You mean... something like the individual sovereign United States? Wouldn't that be something?

Blogger Unknown August 16, 2017 8:27 AM  

I prefer quadrants to a spectrum:
Global Socialist (Obama, Warren)
National Socialist (Sanders, antifa)
Global Corporatist (Bush, Clinton)
National Capitalist (Buchanan, Trump)

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:27 AM  

This exemplifies Steve Sailer's aphorism "libertarianism is applied autism."

The mistake that libertarians make is to think that only ideology matters. The mistake that Fake Right white nationalists make is to think that only identity matters. Particularly in the early stages of the transition from ideology to identity.

And with regards to identity, remember, Lee Kuan Yew said that in a multi-ethnic society, you vote on race AND religion. The atheists and pagans are no more on our side than bush people and Laotians.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 16, 2017 8:29 AM  

A good review of what actually happened at the Charlottesville rally, including background, the unprovoked police attack on the nationalists, and continuing through the Challenger incident:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/an-exclusive-look-at-how-virginia-police-emptied-emancipation-park/

Firsthand report from Pax Dickinson:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/14/heres-how-the-virginia-state-police-provoked-violence-at-charlottesville/

The Challenger was attacked (several times) by rioting Communists and BLM terrorists prior to the crash:

http://www.vdare.com/articles/narrative-collapse-is-charlottesvilles-james-alex-fields-the-next-george-zimmerman
http://bigleaguepolitics.com/eyewitnesses-james-fields-car-attacked-police-set-rally-goers-assaulted/

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 8:32 AM  

Your comment didn't undermine me at all. You're lying again. You are frantic to respin this, because you know exactly what I am going to do, in public, to every member of the Fake Right. Your little movement is having its engine surgically excised.

And just because I am laying the dialectical groundwork doesn't mean that the rhetorical artillery won't be delivered on target. One thing at a time.

You guys have never understood the importance of political philosophy. That's why you failed to understand that both national socialism and the Alt-Right harbored appeal for people outside the USA, or grasped the consequences of those appeals.

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 8:36 AM  

I see an Alt-Right(West) society being a modified Victorian one. Nationalist, Christian, Industrialist, Traditionalist and High Individual Civic Virtue. Individual achievement limited only by one's talents and willingness to work.

While reality rarely equals the ideal, that does not disqualify the ideal.

Blogger James Dixon August 16, 2017 8:36 AM  

As someone else once noted, it always comes back to Plato versus Aristotle.

> Or is it to quite literally see North American politics move toward a more successful Swiss model, which would require the break-up of the USA

I don't think it would. What it would require is forcing the federal government back to it's constitutionally defined roles, and possibly limiting it very slightly from there (goodbye commerce clause and the popular election of senators, for instance). Still a Herculean task, I'll admit.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 8:37 AM  

The point of the OP is clear to me; We're so immersed in leftist thinking that the entire political spectrum is left of center. This explains why this topic is so difficult; it's classic "explain 'being wet' to a fish."

Libertarianism, for instance, is a great example of a schism moving people to opposite poles. You have the Left-libertarians (and Libertarians) who think the political state should be involved in ameliorating the suffering of people. This is a FULL Leftist sentiment, nothing anti-state (libertarian) about it.

Then you have what Left-libertarians call "the brutalists." These are 100% doctrinaire libertarians, variously called libertarian-anarchists, anarcho-capitalists, and market-order purists. These folks believe ALL political government is amoral and unnecessary, and that the market, without monopolistic competition from the state, can best provide all necessary and proper functions our civics-class Utopia posits for "good government."

So who is the "Rightist" here? Sure as hell not the Jeff Tucker faction of leftist-libertarians, for whom calling them "libertarian" is an oxymoron. Only the anarchists (libertarian, not socialist bomb-throwing version) are actually anti-LEFT. But they aren't Rightists, either.

The Right seeks to find a STATE system that does what the US Constitution was SUPPOSED to do (but never did.) I submit that the fatal defect of the Constitution of 1787 was a lack of citizen-level VETO. The only rules that should EVER be passed by a NATIONAL government should be essentially 100% supported. Any law passed by a NATIONAL government that obtains even 20% opposition (or even 10%, or 5%, or even 1%) should never see the light of day. What would emerge would be English Common Law: no assault, no robbery, no murder. All other rules would have to be worked out far more locally, where the asshole politicians (always bought-and-paid-for by someone) would have to face their constituents in the grocery store aisle, and be THAT accountable.

The Right (of which the Alt-Right is a vague precursor) will ultimately have to work out how to implement a state that rejects Leftist (literally) Magical Thinking. It will be given that opportunity when this 50 year lurch into madness visibly is dead and gone. Until then, the Alt-Right will largely be defined by simply its ANTI-LEFTism.

Blogger SDaly August 16, 2017 8:43 AM  

Just a heads up Vox Popoli is now blocked by my company's web site monitor under the category "Intolerance".

Anonymous Otto August 16, 2017 8:45 AM  

They have rewritten history to make the Nazis the defenders of the white race. But, look at who the Nazis fought: the British, Dutch, French, Polish, and Greek.

Where are the non-white countries? The Nazis were fighting for German culture, not the white race.

American culture has its roots in the British, Dutch, and Greeks. I'd take that any day over German culture.

Anonymous Magus August 16, 2017 8:47 AM  

d.c. - You ask a lot of the same questions I have. Although I'm not interested in "democracy" per se. That's more a question of implementation. Nonetheless, what is it we're positively for, beyond recognising the reality of ethno-states, and acting accordingly?

To your point about the Swiss, yeah, I keep thinking it's partly a numbers game. Even with a bunch of very similar people, I don't see how you have a large state that is still free when you get into the tens or hudnreds of millions of people. I see too much fragility in the project.

Dividing the US population in 1775 by the 13 Colonies makes for a 230,000 average per Colony/State. So... that's something to bear in mind when considering what the people tasked with making a lasting country thought was feasible. Obviously they expected growth but I just don't think they quite imagined the sheer scale of today. Not that the scale is *the* problem but it's certainly, mmm.... a difficulty.

Even here in the UK, we're less than 70 million, and even here there's an undercurrent in the Conservatives calling for more Localism, for restoring powers to local Councils instead of HM Government.

I like the sound of it. It sounds neat. I can see how it works to make things better but... I'm suspicious of easy answers, and it feels to me like it's too easy, and that there's something I'm missing there.

Blogger Krul August 16, 2017 8:53 AM  

I've long thought that the main function of all the "see Kyle?" stuff was to break the stranglehold on our political discussions held by WWII, the Nazis, and the holocaust.

We, as a nation, have long defined ourselves by our role in WWII, like an aging athlete who dwells on his past exploits. We are forever at war with our enemy, the Nazis, whose nature is demonstrated dramatically by that act of ultimate evil, the Holocaust. It got to the point where the Nazis were brought up so regularly in political discussions that everyone felt it to be ridiculous, evinced by the popularity of Godwin's Law.

The Nazi trolling allows us to finally get over WWII and hopefully define ourselves by something more rational, like the principles of our founders, most certainly including their ethno-nationalism and their Christianity as well as individual sovereignty.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 8:54 AM  

What it would require is forcing the federal government back to it's constitutionally defined roles, and possibly limiting it very slightly from there (goodbye commerce clause and the popular election of senators, for instance). Still a Herculean task, I'll admit.

Since I'm a devotee of Etienne de la Boetie's "Discourses," that Herculean task is (IMO) quite literally a "change of heart" for hundreds of millions of people. We have the system we have today because our society sanctions it all the way down. This applies to politics, feminism and the role of women, economics, finance, the monetary system, you-name-it.

It all grew up organically over centuries. I submit it will be replaced, organically or not at all, and while to future historians the process might look rapid, to those of us living in it the process will take LIFETIMES.

The rise of the Alt-Right is the very first of a long series of developments that are REQUIRED in an organic process of VAST change in trend. The trend in the West has been Hard Left for 150, if not 400 years. Just the change in trend alone will take a lifetime or two. Our descendants will presumably then experience a similarly long period of improving conditions (150-400 years?) under more "right" sentiments (obviously just a guess, based on the Wave Principle's "Theory of Alternation.")

Rome wasn't built in a day. The journey of a billion steps begins with....

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 8:54 AM  

One thing a lot of libertarians don't seem to understand is that borders are not limiters of the nation's liberty, but protectors of it.

The 'Castle Doctrine' establishes a protective border for the individual and his family from the state. National borders establish the 'Castle Doctrine' for the nation, protecting it from the world.

Blogger Alexamenos August 16, 2017 9:01 AM  

Yep.

I also see it as a generational thing -- Hitler is a religious figure to Boomer liberals. The goose-stepping kids in the alt-right are rebelling against their parents by making the devil their messiah.

It's a phase, they'll get over it.

Anonymous Otto August 16, 2017 9:02 AM  

Hitler wasn't bright either. He made continual military blunders.

1) Failed to invade England after Dunkirk.
2) Declared war on the USA (his generals LITERALLY begged him not to do it).
3) Invaded Russia, creating a second front.
4) Not seeking a peace agreement after Stalingrad, which made it obvious Germany would eventually lose the war.
5) Insisting on fighting to the bitter end, ensuring Germany would be obliterated.

Hitler was the Barak Obama of his day. A charismatic leader that did many dumb things.

Blogger wreckage August 16, 2017 9:05 AM  

Vox, I know you don't like cursing on your blog, but I propose:
Alt Right
Alt Left
Fucking Nazis

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 16, 2017 9:06 AM  

I have already issued a challenge to your Fake Right leaders and Greg Johnson has accepted. He will argue that National Socialists are of the Right.

Your posturing is irrelevant. We'll settle this openly and in public for everyone to determine for themselves.


Will this be an Open Brainstorm?

I'll sign up now... Hell I'll pay money.

Shuffling off the Nazi detritus comes as a relief.

It was like trying to have rational discussion with someone dressed like a super villain.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 9:08 AM  

The OP is just begging the question. No one denies that on the collectivism-individualism axis, Nazism is socialist. The question is whether that is the primary and sole axis that distinguishes Left from Right, and the answer is "No".

There is also r vs K, competition versus care-harm, equality vs hierarchy. It is more accurate to say that collectivism-individualism is a subset of this more fundamental human primitive, which divides chimp from bonobo, and matriarchal grass huts from conquering patriarchal herders.

If the Right is merely individualism, then it is not very right, since humans are tribal and so is the Bible. But if the Right is K, then it is almost entirely right.

As for the generic validity of evo psych, one reason the R^2 is weak is that extant species are not very thermodynamically optimized, because the major bottleneck for speciation is not thermodynamic competition but reproductive viability, ala Eugene McCarthy's hybrid stabilization theory. In economic terms, there are major barriers to entry, not only for startups but also for lateral moves: extant species cannot gradually microevolve dramatically beyond their initial template.

UAST is a more elegant theory than r/K. Vox's libertarian roots are showing. No man is an island, but some superintelligences are troglodytes. Libertarianism is the ideology of stress-tolerators.

I propose that the best foundation for the political spectrum is the actually observable historical cycle between patriarchal honor and matriarchal degeneracy. So the political spectrum is a circle, but a temporally directional one. This fits with the nature of other theories such as socionomics and anacyclosis and UAST.

Under this model, it becomes obvious that Nazism is a temporally later, more scaled, and more degenerate form of patriarchal honor, than VD's preferred libertarianism. Thus Communism and Nazism are diametrically opposed ideologies... AT THE SAME POINT ON THE TEMPORAL CYCLE.

As for this immediate intra- Alt-Right political conflict, I'm ok with there being some daylight between the Alt-Nazi intellectuals + prison proles and the Alt-West American chads + Alt-Lite. It probably facilitates the breakup of the USSA.

Blogger S1AL August 16, 2017 9:10 AM  

Libertarianism is rightly understood as a set of political preferences. Trying to make it a political philosophy is bad. Trying to make it a party is worse. That's not even herding cats. It's asking a group of cats to reach an agreement on how they prefer to be herded.

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 9:11 AM  

@Otto:

1) Hitler couldn't invade England. Because Royal Navy and failure to establish air superiority of the English Channel. Even if he had managed to neutralize the Royal Navy and establish air superiority it would have likely ended in disaster for him.
2) Yes, this was likely a mistake.
3) Yes, though this didn't really establish a second front as there was no Western front at the time.
4) and 5) Germany had little choice due to the Allies insistence on unconditional surrender.

Ultimately Hitler should have stopped and reformed the German economy after acquiring the Sudetenland.

Blogger Rebelfire August 16, 2017 9:12 AM  

I'm sorry, but I can't help but imagine the phrase "Alt-Reich" being spoken by someone with Down Syndrome.

Anonymous Jack August 16, 2017 9:13 AM  

Vox,

Somewhat related to this topic, and perhaps an issue that will come up in your debate with Greg Johnson: Does a position on usury factor into this determination of what is and is not the Right? The Church banned usury for most of its history, and this is one way that Christendom distinguished itself from other societies. The nazis made opposition to usury a part of their platform, though I don't know to what degree they put that into practice. I'd like to know your thoughts on this matter.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 9:13 AM  

@44 The Swiss model is pretty ideal. Imagine: a country with two parts so different that they don't even really speak the same base language, but it "works." Some key elements: It's VERY difficult to become a citizen. VERY VERY.

Another: The local cantons have tremendous veto power over the clowns they send to their national assembly. The obvious point is that any politician can be confronted by an angry constituent any day of the week. THAT'S accountability. Can we imagine Obama's regime getting away with 0.001% of their program if Joe Citizen could have seen him (or his minions) in the grocery store aisle and begun an angry face-to-face demand for answers? Ditto the UK's ministers, or Canada's, or frankly anywhere.

Massive Scale favored the Left. History documents this beyond doubt. Could Castro's Cuban Club of International Socialism lasted 10 minutes without its USSR Big Bear Brother? No. Scale works heavily against the rights of the individual citizen, on whom leftists LIVE to heap burdens.

Peace and war come in cycles of social mood. Neither is monopolized by Left or Right, which are just two different approaches to a complex set of problems, each with its own set of blessings and curses. Left sentiments seek to address matters of the heart and conscience with a coercive monopoly (the state), which is bat-guano crazy if examined dispassionately. The only "Right" parallel would be if the military was applied to literally conquering the galaxy (i.e., "hardship & suffering" are infinite given moving definitions of them, so wars on favorite Leftist "enemies" are similarly infinite, unlimited and insane.)

We cannot implement a Swiss system in the West yet. Leftism is ultimately characterized by magical thinking and like I noted, most people today are leftists...just separated by HOW leftist. Leftism as a whole must be completely discredited, and until this Long, Credit-card-sustained Boom ends, people will continue to embrace its magical thinking foundation.

The Alt-Right is thus EARLY. Its members are part of the wave that has already rolled over, part of those who already largely reject the Magical thinking of the Left. The "Alt-" part will be removed once this Vast Ponzi Scheme is finally understood to be bust. From a FASB accounting standpoint it was bankrupt decades ago, but perception and rationalization dominate. It will end when it ends, on its own schedule. Until then, the FIRE and Medical sub-economies will turn into black holes (even more than now.)

When ALL of the wave's water has rolled over (after crashing onto the Rocks of Reality), the "Alt-" will be dropped. It will be Right, crushing the Left (in all its incarnations) at the pre-conscious level of almost all individuals. It won't be "top down," it will be organic and spontaneous, almost like a contagious pandemic.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 9:14 AM  

> Alt-Nazi intellectuals + prison proles

That should be Alt-Reich InterNazis + prison proles

Anonymous Anonymous August 16, 2017 9:16 AM  

A leftist seeks dramatic social improvement by applying absolute equality to some aspect of life.

A rightist rejects the left because he is loyal to God, family and nation.

A moderate is an apathetic centrist who reluctantly follows the lead of the left.

A fascist is a radical centrist who borrows ideas from both the left and the right in pursuit of national greatness.

Moderates and fascists are both shadows following leftists on their road to perdition.

As each generation of leftists becomes progressively more evil, their associated fascist shadow becomes progressively more evil.

Voltaire proclaimed Deist absolute equality before God. In practice, this meant hatred towards Christian clergymen. Frederick the Great was Voltaire's fascist shadow, making use of both clergymen and of Voltaire's critique of clergymen.

Robespierre proclaimed absolute equality before the law. In practice, this meant hatred towards kings and nobles. Napoleon was Robespierre's fascist shadow, making use of both royalty/nobility and Robespierre's critique thereof.

Marx proclaimed economic equality. In practice this meant hatred towards the bourgeoisie. Hitler was Marx's fascist shadow, making use of both the bourgeoisie and Marx's critique thereof (and Lenin's bloody methods).

The Frankfort School proclaimed racial and sexual equality, which in practice amounts to hatred for White people, men, and anyone with a shred of sexual morality. The radical environmentalists proclaimed equality of animals with humans, which in practice amounts to hatred for all human beings. The "abolitionists" pursuing the "hedonic imperative" proclaim the equality of the gazelle with the lion, which in practice amounts to hatred for all "Darwinian life forms". The French New Right and its imitators attempt to be the fascist shadow of these increasingly deranged forms of leftism.

Fascism has reached a dead end. Whatever vigor leftism could once impart to national greatness ceased long ago, as the left itself approached its own dead end. As absolute equality stubbornly refused to produce Utopia, the object of their hatred gradually expanded from priests to all living things.

More significantly, the left as an indigenous Western movement hit a dead end when ethnic outsiders with no interest in equality of any sort became the left's constituents. What passes for the "left" exists primarily to defend the wealth, power and privilege of the world's most privileged ethnic group, the Jews.

The contradictions were already apparent in 1939, when Hitler, in alliance with Stalin and Kaganovich, invaded and destroyed Poland, which was Europe's most nationalist, most anti-Bolshevik, most antisemitic country.

National conservatives, loyal to God, family, nation and European Christian civilization, are and always have been the true right.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 16, 2017 9:16 AM  

If you're unsure whether a development is positive or negative, one test is to look at your enemies' reaction to it. The leftists and cucks sure as heck know this was good for us. The Left is so triggered by Trump's nuanced viewpoint that they're now claiming WWII vets as "Alt-Left." Think about that: they're taking war heroes -- most of whom can't object because they're dead -- and assigning to them ideologies everyone knows they would have had nothing to do with, putting them on the same team with cop-killers, monument-destroyers, and men who use girls' bathrooms. They fought Nazis in trenches with tanks and guns, so that makes them the same as Commies running around American cities bashing in car windows.

That's an impressive own-goal, even for these people.

Blogger Nick S August 16, 2017 9:20 AM  

The true right is grounded in moral realism. I believe a talented exegete could easily show the connections between those objective dots and the 16 points thus demonstrating that the Alt-Right is the True Right.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 9:21 AM  

Then I'm correct it's ideology makes a right or left movement.

Then truly white identity politics can be outlawed as much as the constitution allows to nearly non existence with only carved out exceptions.

Then we can all be ideologues debating collectivism or individualism and the role of community.

Now I grew up when the intellectuals in anti-communism used the word "freedom" quite liberally, but today it's ideology all the way down and the word "freedom" has all but disappeared from the lexicon.

Anonymous ISeeKyle August 16, 2017 9:22 AM  

Sorry,I must have missed the video footage of you or any of your guys on the shield wall there,Vox.I apologize for originally assuming that you were bus-throwing Nazis who DID show up to fight for American history and American war veterans while jerking off about how much more pure you were,ideologically-speaking.

I'm sure we'll be seeing those videos of you dodging bricks being thrown at your head or being sprayed in the face with acid to advance the right wing's political and social agenda coming out any day now.

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 9:24 AM  

Of the Alt-Reich I wonder how many of the rank and file would remain if they understood the inherent Leftism of National Socialism. Of course I suppose some of them are just in it because they think it's edgy and might improve their socio-sexual status.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 9:25 AM  

You can continue to debate some piss ant damaged people of the nazi cos play company or you can put a spear thru the fake right of the cucks.

Today the cucks are lambasting the nazi right which apparently covers everyone to the right of Mike Pence.

GO ALL IN, if white identity politics are so bad and so violent then ban them cucks.

Blogger Alexandros August 16, 2017 9:26 AM  

Alexamenos wrote:Yep.

I also see it as a generational thing -- Hitler is a religious figure to Boomer liberals. The goose-stepping kids in the alt-right are rebelling against their parents by making the devil their messiah.

It's a phase, they'll get over it.

This, this is the crux of it right here.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 9:32 AM  

Sorry,I must have missed the video footage of you or any of your guys on the shield wall there,Vox.I apologize for originally assuming that you were bus-throwing Nazis who DID show up to fight for American history and American war veterans while jerking off about how much more pure you were,ideologically-speaking.

What does any of that have to do with the Tongmenghui or the Three Principles of the People?

You guys aren't equipped to even begin arguing with me.

Either the national socialists are genuine Right or Fake Right. I can very, very easily prove the latter. And no amount of running around playing tag with the Alt-Left in public will change that.

Anonymous RobertL August 16, 2017 9:38 AM  

I read about The Farm, a commune, a couple of years back, an ex-member explaining how, as they had the breathing space to organise themselves, they moved from communism, to socialism, to capitalism as their material wealth increased. In this sense, the argument over left/right becomes one of recognising the social mood (thanks d.c.sunsets for pushing the term) and adjusting economic policy to fit. It then becomes a political argument between different groups who feel different moods. IF economic policy is derived from social mood, arguing against policy X is merely politically suboptimal, rather than a stand of principle, because as the mood changes, so will the desire for the economic policy you want to see.

Koanic wrote:The question is whether that is the primary and sole axis that distinguishes Left from Right, and the answer is "No".

It follows, as Hjernvask pointed out with sexual difference, that in a time of material abundance that society would diverge between the r/K poles because r strategy-suppression would not enhance reproduction. So we simultaneously see a massively r-preference society and a clear deliniation of K-preference holdouts, who, because resources are so plentiful, don't have to throw in with the r's for security.

Anonymous kfg August 16, 2017 9:40 AM  

"Nor is the original usage of much utility today, since it represented the fundamental division of the pre-revolutionary French national assembly. Since very few nations feature a monarchy these days, and even fewer political parties espouse positions with regards to the Bourbon kings, this definition is now defunct."

Exactly. In a USA context the paradigm was imported by the "huddled masses yearning to be free." Chiefly free of the Tsar, but also of the German Princes and English Monarchs. Not understanding the American system of government or its culture they continued to press for "reforms" that had no relevance here, and in so doing used the system to break the system that was already freer than what they were demanding.

"Taking this fundamental dichotomy between the supremacy of the community and the primacy of the individual as a starting point . . ."

. . . the most useful heuristic I have found is Wolves and Rabbits, although in certain contexts I find prairie dogs more accurate than rabbits, or at least than American rabbits (even American rabbits are more individualistic than Old World rabbits).

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 9:44 AM  

It's going to be very amusing to see the "National Socialists are Alt-Right" defenders attempt to deny the links between Chinese national socialism and German national socialism.

Hitler openly admired Chiang Kai-Shek "because he had built a powerful centralised government."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 16, 2017 9:46 AM  

I hear the Nat Soshes are going to apply for a permit for a free speech rally in DC at one of the founder's monuments.

Blogger Thomas Henderson August 16, 2017 9:47 AM  

Nor is the original usage of much utility today, since it represented the fundamental division of the pre-revolutionary French national assembly.

In the 1791 French assembly the Jacobins sat to the left of the president while those who supported the king and the church sat to his right. The left advocated liberté, égalité, fraternité and the right emphasized duty, hierarchy, and faith. One side saw society as a blank slate upon which to impress its will and the other saw civilization as a living organic body possessed with memory and purpose.

Though not exactly paralleled to today, it can still serve as a handy tool to adjudge the political spectrum.

Blogger S1AL August 16, 2017 9:51 AM  


"Though not exactly paralleled to today, it can still serve as a handy tool to adjudge the political spectrum."

Not really. The American Right has more in common with the French Left than the French Right.

Blogger Michael Neal August 16, 2017 9:58 AM  

I'm not sure the alt-right label can be separated from the nazis at this point, this is why I have never adopted the identity myself and remain christian independent. One option would be to have a new label like American Right or America First that firmly rejects socialism of both extremes. It's just a label and people had no problem abandoning labels like libertarian and conservative when they ceased to be useful and taken over by hostile people.

Anonymous praetorian August 16, 2017 9:58 AM  

I went to bed euphoric that the God Emperor had executed perhaps the greatest bit of rhetorical jujitsu I had ever seen.

I wake up to pointless (mainly intergenerational) D&C on the right.

Pax has already said that the movement guys now understand they need to patrol the pinwheel of friendship and peace crowd. Why aren't we attacking alt-left antifa communists?

> The Swiss model is pretty ideal

Yes.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 16, 2017 9:59 AM  

@72 Thomas Henderson

Left vs Right really boils down to Emotion vs Order. That's why there's so much of a replay of Plato vs Aristotle involved.

Leftism is fundamentally an Enlightenment-era Religion. "Rightism" ends up being a reflection of Christian Morality, though the modern versions are pretty much from Protestant Christianity. Probably because the Catholic Right got slaughtered. A lot.

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 10:01 AM  

Those that made hay out of Saturday's events were not particularly interested in the political ideology of the neo-Nazis. They're not criticizing the Nazi position on universal health care of their ideas on the tax code.

The presence of "Nazis" was the evidence they needed to whip out their most effective weapon in their arsenal: this is racist!

From there they quickly broadened the attendees to include white supremacists and then further to include white nationalists -- which is another term for ethno-nationalism -- which allows them to bring the heat all the way up to the Trump / Bannon doorstep.

The crux of the problem here is that "racism" is still a strong weapon of the Left, and will probably continue to be as the country becomes more diverse.

Anonymous Jack August 16, 2017 10:03 AM  

I'll be very curious to see where you're going with this Tongmenghui and Chiang Kai Shek link. Chiang Kai Shek is generally regarded as right-wing because he was a nationalist and anti-communist who opposed Mao in the civil war. He's not well-regarded in contemporary China, for this reason.

Anonymous DissidentRight August 16, 2017 10:05 AM  

johnc wrote:I guess a question I have is... What do people today find in National Socialism that they're not getting anywhere else? What is the ideological attraction? Is there an alternative?

It actually has little to do with ideology (which make sense if you ever talk to them, since they don’t know a lot about Nazi ideology).

1. Jews lied about Nazis and used them as a club to attack the rest of us ever since.
2. Nazis where hostile to Jews and Communists.
3. Nazis where white (like Reichtards), where nationalists, and built a powerful and (initially) successful war machine, and produced impressive symbols and propaganda.

It has to do with Reichtards being angry at historical lies combined with the natural male desire to belong to a powerful (militarized) group. In other words, it’s rhetoric, not dialectic.

Blogger Hugo Smith August 16, 2017 10:05 AM  

You don't get to ignore the issue of race after having written about it so much.

The crux of the matter is whether the "alt-Reich" are more aligned with you on the issue than the far left, which they obvious are.

Identity politics are what define right and left today. Everyone instinctively knows this.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 16, 2017 10:06 AM  

@60 Cail Corishev

Alt-Left has ruined some of them. Trump nuked them harder than he we going to nuke FatKim. Rembmer, trust the G-E.

As to the "purging of the alt-reichtards", I didn't much care about some idiot spewing about being a Nazi on the Internet because I've dealt with far, far worse. I could care less, as long as you're not taking a dump in a discussion space. However, in meatspace? That just doesn't fly. Previously, the idiots were of little consequence, but they've become a massive liability to the point that everyone right of Mao is taking flak. Purge the Leftists from the Right.

That's the point. We're on the Right, not the god-forsaken Left.

OpenID paworldandtimes August 16, 2017 10:07 AM  

Right is an ideology of Truth. It is represented by a vertical axis of the great chain of being.

Left is an ideology of Power. It is represented by a horizontal axis of progress.

PA

Blogger Ransom Smith August 16, 2017 10:07 AM  

@Dc.sunsets

You've really hit upon what I think is the key reason Switzerland works. It's a rare example of community being prioritized over country.

Switzerland may be one nation but the communities themselves set the tempo.

Blogger Thomas Henderson August 16, 2017 10:07 AM  

Not really. The American Right has more in common with the French Left than the French Right.

Of course they do. Both countries began as revolutionary republics.

America's right is always going to be somewhat leftists by this standard. The Whigs in America sent the Tories packing to Canada in the 1780s.

Blogger Doom August 16, 2017 10:09 AM  

Sounds reasonable. Even so, thank God for the Nazis in there time. They were the only ones ready and able to end up keeping half of Europe free, if in a convoluted and deadly way. No complaining about the Jews and others either. If Russia/Stalin had won all of Europe, none from there would exist.

Not sure if they have such a role today, or can be reformed, but I have been well informed by their history regarding two fronts. Unless they start something, let them alone. It would be sufficient if they and blm gutted each other. Even just tying each other up would be fine. They had best toughen up and tend politics, diplomacy, and strategy as well. Or this is all academic. If they improve, make headway, I could see minor collusion. Not my gig, but muscle, numbers, and superior to any blmaggot or commie anti.

In the end, if they are more socialist than Christian, they too will be voted off the island.

Anonymous Teapartydoc August 16, 2017 10:10 AM  

Nationalism without the socialism.

Anonymous IndecisiveEvidence August 16, 2017 10:10 AM  

Watching assorted Nazi trannies and faux mystics get the vapors from this makes my morning

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 16, 2017 10:11 AM  

Hitler openly admired Chiang Kai-Shek "because he had built a powerful centralised government."

Look it's not fair to the alt retard for you to go and read what Hitler actually said and wrote.

Anonymous Toe The Line August 16, 2017 10:13 AM  

People with skin in the game like Anglin, Spencer and Enoch earned real influence with Trump and have the ability to change AltRight branding. Irrelevant Vox can only indulge in childish tantrums. Vox why don't you do something useful and support the movement instead of raging like a hysterical woman? Most importantly for you: it would be good for book sales. Shekels!

Blogger Thomas Henderson August 16, 2017 10:14 AM  

@76 Looking Glass

Left vs Right really boils down to Emotion vs Order. That's why there's so much of a replay of Plato vs Aristotle involved.

Leftism is fundamentally an Enlightenment-era Religion.
, etc.

Yes, I concur.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 10:15 AM  

@73 I think @72 hit it. The American Right (the Alt-Right) embraces civilization as a living organic body possessed with memory and purpose. It's the Republicans (cucks almost to a man) and everyone else who holds common cause with the French Left, because they all engage in the Magical Thinking that human nature can be (socially/politically) engineered.

This has parallel to the Headline Issues of our day:
--is sex determined by XX or XY chromosome pairs?
--are people so biologically similar across all human populations that differences in measured intelligence, innate skills and aptitudes, and behavior norms themselves are entirely ACQUIRED? (i.e., Blank Slate/Magic Dirt.)

What is this? It's a fundamentally BIOLOGICAL question. Does biology (Nature, as studied and revealed) matter? Or do humans mirror the power of God, able to change attributes because humans are clay to the political sculptors who control the State's Kiln?

Engineering or organic cultivation? Materialist or not?

Is it Nature? Or nurture? The Left engages in the magical thinking of "all nurture, all the time." All outcomes should be equal, and when they're not, IT CAN'T BE NATURE. Because if it's NATURE, men (more actually WOMEN) can't "FIX" it. And we can't have that kind of defeatist, RACIST/SEXIST/HOMOPHOBIC/TRANSPHOBIC/PEDOPHOBIC/etc. thinking...it's HERETICAL! And we BURN heretics (metaphorically, by disemploying them and attempting to ruin their lives.)

A 70-IQ Somali is a 140-IQ Swede. Or will be if we just TWEAK their environment a little, so it's immoral to prevent the Somali from moving to St. Paul (for St. Paul's environment of fabulous relative wealth.)

Yes, the (Alt-)Right is the leading edge. Of a rejection of basing social organization on fantasy.

Anonymous Roundtine August 16, 2017 10:21 AM  

Most objective historians say the Nazis are in a category by themselves. Hitler was interested in taking power.

Nazism is extreme left-wing to Anglo-Saxon individualism.
Nazism is extreme right-wing to international socialists.

Even if you like Nazism for its commie-smashing credentials, the ideology is beset with socialist (communist) ideas. The far right edge of the Anglo-Saxon right tends towards Monarchy or Theocracy with an emphasis on the sovereign's duty to uphold individual rights. It is anti-democratic, anti-populist, anti-equality whereas Nazism is very populist and does believe in equality within the tribe.

Anonymous kfg August 16, 2017 10:21 AM  

"Though not exactly paralleled to today, it can still serve as a handy tool to adjudge the political spectrum."

No. It can't. It isn't simply "not exactly paralleled," it simply doesn't match.

"The American Right has more in common with the French Left than the French Right."

Q.E.D. And not in the sense that the terms should be flipped, but in the sense that they simply don't work. The ideologies that the terms represent don't actually exist in the political spectrum.

In my youth I was puzzled, because it was perfectly obvious that people, by their behaviour, did not actually believe the ideologies they espoused. They had ideologies, but they didn't fit the platforms. I began thinking in biological terms, rather than political. Predator/prey. That seemed to work much better. I started referring to city people as "living like prairie dogs," when we are, by nature, actually an apex predator.

And then I heard someone (my current state of memory says it was Jeff Cooper) refer to the "Rabbit People," and the tumblers of my mind spun and fell into place.

Since then Anonymous Conservative has written out a more formal premise and arguments. Some of his arguments are weaker than others, and a few land with a thud, but the premise and overall tenor of the supporting arguments are sound.

The base political spectrum is Hunters vs. Gatherers. Wolves on the plain-in the country/prairie dogs or rabbits in their city warrens. It fits what people actually believe, based on their observable behaviours.

Anonymous kfg August 16, 2017 10:23 AM  

"Most objective historians say the Nazis are in a category by themselves.
Nazism is extreme left-wing to Anglo-Saxon individualism.
Nazism is extreme right-wing to international socialists."

And AC actually addresses this issue in his book.

Blogger S1AL August 16, 2017 10:24 AM  

"America's right is always going to be somewhat leftists by this standard."

Thus demonstrating my point...

"Look it's not fair to the alt retard for you to go and read what Hitler actually said and wrote."

It really isn't.

"People with skin in the game like Anglin, Spencer and Enoch earned real influence with Trump and have the ability to change AltRight branding."

But are their lawns bigger than his?

Blogger StrawMan August 16, 2017 10:24 AM  

Larger themes in the National Socialist 25 point program seem to align more with Trumpian Populism than the Daily Kos. Those points include limiting immigrants including legal immigrants, speaking the national language, skepticism of the media and limiting (((outsider))) control, and support for large government entitlements. On the last one, folks here aren't thrilled with it but the Trump coalition in general is. Trump has supported large entitlements, including universal health care, to this day. It's interesting that the alt-right's God Emperor spent most of his life on the Left, not dissimilar to the "fake right."

Anonymous Roundtine August 16, 2017 10:25 AM  

Chiang Kai Shek is generally regarded as right-wing because he was a nationalist and anti-communist who opposed Mao in the civil war. He's not well-regarded in contemporary China, for this reason.

Chiang is well regarded today because he was a nationalist who tried to unite China and he fought the Japanese. China is the purest (relatively speaking) and most effective form of National Socialism ever created. It didn't start with Mao, but with Deng in 1978.

Blogger Bodo Staron August 16, 2017 10:28 AM  

VD, an author of the German NewRight called Nazism "Communism from the right".
You like this description?

Anonymous Roundtine August 16, 2017 10:28 AM  

More to the point, if you're really worried about Jews, even talking about Nazism outside of a history class means you're dancing to the Jew's fiddle.

We shouldn't be trying to rehabilitate Hitler or Nazis, but to totally remove them from OUR nation and OUR political discourse.

Anonymous Anonymous August 16, 2017 10:29 AM  

The right is not the same thing as classical liberalism.

Classical liberalism was the first iteration of leftism, before socialism and cultural Marxism were invented.

George Washington was the founder of America's conservative tradition. He believed in Christianity, American nationalism - and in a stronger, more vigorous national government.

Jefferson, a leftist admirer of the French Revolution, was the founder of America's classical liberal tradition. Jefferson rejected Christianity, supported immigration for partisan advantage - and he also supported a minimal, decentralized government.

Consider Victor Hugo's noel "93". Reading that novel started Stalin on his path to leftism. The Jacobin protagonist expounds a left-libertarian political creed.

The biggest problem with National Socialism isn't the socialism. The real problem was their flagrant contempt for the sanctity of human life, which earned them the contempt of all good people. Hitler is poison because of the oceans of blood on his hands, not because he complimented Chiang Kai-Shek.

The real reason why modern American rightists should support minimal, decentralized government is tactical and historical, not philosophical. Christian social conservatism is weak, therefore the central government should be as weak as possible to enable Christian social conservatism to survive in regional strongholds. If nationalism and Christian social conservatism were strong, the national government aught to be as strong as is compatible with American traditions, just as the Fidesz government in Hungary and the Law and Justice government in Poland are as vigorous as their respective national traditions permit - far more so than any Jeffersonian, libertarian or classical would approve of.

Blogger Chiva August 16, 2017 10:32 AM  

People with skin in the game like Anglin, Spencer and Enoch earned real influence with Trump

Yes, the kind of influence where the G-E "condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred” and “Of course that includes white supremacists, KKK, Neo-Nazi, and all extremist groups.”

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III August 16, 2017 10:32 AM  

>What do people today find in National Socialism

It is that it is explicitly White, with a projection of power of such, acknowledgement of the jewish problem, and that it is super-aesthetic.

BTW, even /pol/ is coming en masse to realize that Nazi larping needs to stay on the internet and the internet only. If you are not truly familiar with /pol/, having 80% be positive about this is truly remarkable. Combined with Trump's "Alt-Left" maneuver, C-Ville has been a minor miracle of goodness.

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/137642226
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/137615169
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/137667583

Anonymous Roundtine August 16, 2017 10:33 AM  

Larger themes in the National Socialist 25 point program seem to align more with Trumpian Populism than the Daily Kos. Those points include limiting immigrants including legal immigrants, speaking the national language, skepticism of the media and limiting (((outsider))) control, and support for large government entitlements.

Germany was run by the Kaiser in 1914. There were people in the 1920s who wanted to end democracy and return to pre-war political arrangements. The Nazis appealed to them for support because it was populist, as Trump is populist. All populists have some similarities because there are some near universal traits in humans, such as liking free stuff.

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 10:35 AM  

The opposition still controls much of the narrative. How do they divide groups into Left and Right? Is it collectivism / gov't vs. individualism or democracy vs. fascism?

From what I can see, the modern division made by our opposition is this: the Left is defined by tolerance, open-mindedness, no boundaries and the Right is defined by bigotry, closed-mindedness, intolerance, constraints, etc.

So for them, Nazism is deep in bigotry, and therefore far Right.

They seem to have much success applying this scale to the political sphere. You could have somebody whose politics were to the left of Bernie Sanders, but if he were an open racist, he would be placed in the "far right" bucket.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 10:37 AM  

I'll answer my own question. Humans are complex creatures entirely "programmed" by our DNA, the same as a paramecium or a blue whale. Our social behavior is more complex than that of a honey bee, but like the bee, it's entirely programmed.

Even our "free will" choices are constrained by the limits of our innate genetic instruction set. This is obvious when we note that people really don't change with time; they only get better at being who they really are.

But part of the complexity of our instruction set is the phenotype expressed in herding behavior. Some people herd like complete, mindless slaves, others herd a little less. But none of us is an island, none of us exists in the complete absence of social considerations (not even the most vicious psychopath.)

This is why human social history exhibits cycles, swings, trends, trend changes and inertia, just as do all subsets of social behavior (like the stock market.) The central element, however, is change. No static system is alive. All living systems (or systems made of living things) are dynamic.

This is why arguing about the destination (the end point, a static target) is silly. Utopia is not an option. Neither is a stable pure-libertarian market ordered system (political anarchy.) Neither is a stable, permanent tyranny akin to Orwell's Ingsoc & Big Brother. Moving to any pole is impossible, and staying in one place is equally impossible.

For now, I align with the Alt-Right because it simply is Not (more) Left. Further Left now means simply more destruction and misery in the future as the pendulum inevitably swings away from the lunacy of recent times. A North America even more flooded with immiscible people (Mestizos, Somalis, Hindus, Dindus, Ethiopians, Eritreans, etc.) will simply experience even more hardship as the bubble of Belief In Unlimited Resources slams into Reality Rocks. A USA with a growing army of government dependents will simply mean more misery when Uncle Sam turns out not to be a perpetual motion machine.

The least you can say about the Alt-Right is that it promises Tough Love. Those who don't belong here (because they literally CANNOT COMPETE) will be happier if they go home. This is no place for low IQ, low impulse-control Sun People. Spoiling people with government handouts does them no favors when the cupboard turns out to be empty and they have no idea how to feed and clothe themselves without that monthly check and a LINK card.

The Left has turned people into pets and slaves. Putting more people in the zoo, raising more creatures in captivity does them no favors when the day arrives that the zoo can't feed them any more.

Biology is the RULE. It is to humans (and other living things) what gravity and the physical constants governing strength of materials are to aeronautical engineering. The Leftist Mind has created a society of aircraft that don't fly. The crash will wipe away the Cargo Cult building them.

Blogger August August 16, 2017 10:38 AM  

The left defined these words a long time ago, and they way they are used seems to map to 'aligned' and 'non-aligned'. The left is aligned with one and other, and they police their own terms. They are also afraid of the non-aligned collaborating against them, which is why they are big on all this disavowing nonsense. That guy from Google wasted ten pages trying to establish he's one of them and still got kicked out for basic facts.

But now that every white person trying to talk knows he might get maced, the need for collaboration is obvious. And the reason why people should listen to you and pick up the Cross is to force American Christian to deal with the spirit of fear that has immobilized them since the 70s. Swastikas are not the most hated symbol in the world. Frankly, I think even the people who just want to bantz people are not realizing the size and scope of the freak out that would happen if we united under the cross.

Blogger VFM #7191 August 16, 2017 10:38 AM  

Let's be honest: Much of the alt-lite can be safely categorized as "fake right" as well. They're just fake in other ways.

Anonymous Jack August 16, 2017 10:38 AM  

@97 If it started with Deng Xiaoping in '78, then what use is it to link German NatSoc to Chiang and Sun Yat Sen decades prior? That's why I want to know where Vox is going with this. I know enough to wait for what he has to say before trying to second guess him.

Chinese socialism begins with Mao. Chinese nationalism begins I don't know when, since nationalism is basically an expression of patriotism which is an inborn human trait, but we might say for this discussion that it begins with Sun Yat Sen and the republic after the Qing dynasty. I agree with you that contemporary China is basically a successful national socialist country at present, but I don't know where it began to be that. Their economic success began with Deng Xiaoping, but that's because of the opening to the West and the beginning of their experimentation with capitalism.

Yes, the Chinese don't despise Chiang like they used to when he was alive and ruling Taiwan, but Mao is still considered the hero who united the country. See, for example, the Chinese film Back to 1942 about the famine in Henan. Chiang is portrayed as an incompetent leader who could neither resist the Japanese nor alleviate the suffering of his people. You will never see Mao portrayed in any significantly critical way like this.

Blogger Crazy Dan's Gardening Blog August 16, 2017 10:38 AM  

@102. Whitey Whiteman III

Here's archived versions of the 4chan links. 4chan threads like to die relatively quickly, linking directly to them never is a good idea.

http://archive.is/yvX6k
http://archive.is/dXsWO
http://archive.is/V3Yui

Blogger Orthodox August 16, 2017 10:40 AM  

Classical liberalism was the first iteration of leftism, before socialism and cultural Marxism were invented.

There were Americans at the time of the Founding who wanted to go a communist route (land reforms) and might have turned the USA into something resembling 1789 France. The American Aristocracy threw off their King and wanted to preserve their rights.

Anonymous kHz August 16, 2017 10:40 AM  

'The goose-stepping kids in the alt-right are rebelling against their parents by making the devil their messiah.'

The notion that National Socialism is of value because it's condemned by the Communist Left is not an unreasonable first hypothesis for anyone, but myopia is well-recognised as a disability.

'But we National Socialists wish precisely to attract all socialists, even the Communists; we wish to win them over from their international camp to the national one.' - AH

If Satan and Azazel have a spat, it's ludicrous to then think Azazel's on our team.

Blogger StrawMan August 16, 2017 10:41 AM  

Agreed, alt right also seems like fake right.

Donald Trump - Former Democrat, supports bloated middle class entitlements.

Steve Bannon - Failed Hollywood type, wants higher taxes on the wealthy.

Mike Cernovich - Openly supports single payer healthcare and universal basic income.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 10:41 AM  

National Socialism is the logical next step in the USSA's progression, and while I don't agree with the way VD is collapsing the political spectrum, I think it's a great rhetorical maneuver to resist the slide into fascism (or rather the reactionary formalization of fascism from cultural marxist anarcho-tyranny), and well-timed to neutralize the Left's main rhetorical attack against the Alt-Right.

From an American perspective, there's no more reason to allow a Nazi flag-bearer in one's march than a Communist one. Street violence is a legitimate American tactic; what's un-American is its current relative absence in the face of tyranny. Punching uniformed Nazis in that context is fine, and a key step to making punching "racist" real Americans not-fine. It's no different than punching a guy in your trench who is singing and giving your location away to the enemy. Ve must bekomme Indiana Jones. All their memes are belong to us.

NatSoc is obviously un-American, but then again, America is obviously dead. I'd be surprised if there weren't any ex-USSA NatSoc states post-breakup. NatSoc would probably be an improvement over the current USSA.

I agree that the InterNazi phenomenon, while effective for recruiting blackpilled white losers, is juvenile and deserves bullycide outside its proper Aryan Brotherhood Yakuza context. Perhaps the Alt-Reich could be mollified with the concession that swastikas are for felons, 4chan and their eventual Fatherland splitoff, not big-tent media events.

Anonymous Jon Bromfield August 16, 2017 10:42 AM  

As always the sainted Ayn said it best:

"We get you coming and going. We’ve closed the doors. We’ve fixed the coin. Heads — collectivism, and tails — collectivism. Fight the doctrine which slaughters the individual with a doctrine which slaughters the individual."

-from The Fountainhead

Blogger VFM #7191 August 16, 2017 10:43 AM  

StrawMan wrote:Agreed, alt right also seems like fake right.

Donald Trump - Former Democrat, supports bloated middle class entitlements.

Steve Bannon - Failed Hollywood type, wants higher taxes on the wealthy.

Mike Cernovich - Openly supports single payer healthcare and universal basic income.


Given your handle, I suppose I shouldn't take you seriously. Nevertheless, none of those figures are alt-right.

Anonymous Roundtine August 16, 2017 10:47 AM  

If it started with Deng Xiaoping in '78

I'm talking specifically about the modern China as probably the best implementation of national socialism, but it does trace its roots back to Sun and Chiang. They are both revered all over modern China. It was a think about 10-20 years ago, they started rehabilitating Chiang.

Anonymous BBGKB August 16, 2017 10:47 AM  

So, to be alt-right, one simply has to stand to the right of the current Republican party.


All it takes is standing in athwart the path to the little girls bath room yelling 'stop' to trannies.

"A CUCKservative is a fellow who is standing athwart history yelling 'Stop!'"

Switzerland,... It survived, I submit, by giving a HUGE veto power to very small units of government

Switzerland has a pay as you go system down to the village with cantons separated catholic/protestant, that's why a village of over 1000 productive whites were outraged at another tax increase for a family of 8 Somalis leaching over $60,000USD a month from them, making up over 1/3 of there govt spending. When you add just 8 3rdworlders to 1000+ productive whites the tax bill went up over 50% if you understand that govt spending increases the GDP you see how the (((strip mining))) works. I have no idea how much Latrina's 21 crackbabies cost US.

What do people today find in National Socialism that they're not getting anywhere else?

Jews paying them $25+/hr to walk around with a flag

Anonymous Anonymous August 16, 2017 10:51 AM  

"I'm sure we'll be seeing those videos of you dodging bricks being thrown at your head or being sprayed in the face with acid to advance the right wing's political and social agenda coming out any day now."

But that's just the problem!

One of the best men on our side lost his eyesight, but our cause *hasn't* been advanced by this fiasco!

Everyone in America thinks Antifa are the innocent victims.

We need to learn lessons from this event. Otherwise, B.A. lost his eyes in vain.

1. From now on, no Nazi bullshit! No swastika flags, no Roman salutes, no t-shirts with Hitler quotes, no more KKK regalia.
2. Don't allow the enemy to control events. The torchlight rally was a success because it took the enemy by surprise. The Saturday rally was, PREDICTABLY, a fiasco because the enemy knew our plans and prepared an ambush.

By the way, was B.A. deliberately stalked and targeted for blinding by the SPLC? During the torchlight parade, a SPLC Jew followed B.A. around all night, and then tapped him on the forehead with the flat of his hand in some sort of Satanic Talmud witchcraft Kabbalah ritual. The next day, BA was the ONLY person who had hydrochloric acid splashed on his face, and the acid struck his face in the exact location where the SPLC Jew had tapped him the night before.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 10:53 AM  

The other day, someone likened Vox as the "Pope" of the Alt-Right; I think there was even a thread about it.

I found this odd. My inclination has always been that if comparisons could be made, Vox would be the Alfred Rosenberg of the Alt-Right:

Aber der Germane ist leider nicht wachsam gewesen. Er überließ großherzig fremdem Blut dieselben Rechte, die er sich mit großen eigenen Opfern durch die Jahrhunderte erkämpft hatte. Er übertrug Duldung des religiösen und wissenschaftlichen Denkens auch auf ein Gebiet, auf dem er hätte scharfe Abgrenzungen treffen müssen: auf das Gebiet der Volksgestaltung, Menschenformung, Staatsbildung als erster Voraussetzung des organischen Daseins überhaupt. Er hatte übersehen, dass Duldsamkeit zwischen Protestanten und Katholiken in bezug auf ihre Überzeugungen über Gott und Unsterblichkeit nicht gleichbedeutend sein konnte mit Duldsamkeit gegenüber antigermanischen Charakterwerten. Dass der Heroische nicht gleiches Recht haben kann mit dem Börsenspekulanten; dass dem Bekenner der unsittlich-ungermanischen Talmudgesetze mit einem Hanseaten oder deutschen Offizier keine gleichen Rechte auf Lebensgestaltung der Nation zugesprochen werden durften. Aus dieser Sünde gegen das eigene Blut erwuchs die große Volksschuld...

But the Teuton has not, unfortunately, kept up his guard. Magnanimously, he conceded to alien blood those same rights which he had gained for himself as a result of his great sacrifices through the centuries. He carried tolerance of religious diversity and scientific speculation into areas where he would have done better to lay down strict limitations; the areas involving the creation of the national state and of the folkish type. Such are the prerequisites for organic life in general. He failed to see that a spirit of tolerance, as between catholic and protestant religious convictions concerning God and immortality, was not at all the same thing as toleration of anti-Germanic character values. Surely it is obvious that there is no equivalence of rights as between the stock market manipulator and the heroic man; or those who follow the immoral and non-Germanic laws of the Talmud cannot be accorded equal rights in shaping the national life as a Hanseatic merchant or a German officer. From this sin against the own blood sprang the national guilt....

At any rate, the Left/Right dichotomy, at least in these forensic, academic discussions is... It seems way too early in the game to care so much about being right about what things were.

A luxurious life, some of you live.

Anonymous Jack August 16, 2017 11:00 AM  

@116 Sun and Chiang are not revered in present day China. Portraits of Mao are everywhere, including on the currency. Sun and Chiang, nowhere. (Deng Xiaoping is well-loved though.) The schoolbooks teach that Sun Yat Sen was basically good because he founded the Chinese republic, which became, ultimately, today's People's Republic of China. But Chiang is considered someone who tried to become another Emperor, a bad leader. If he's been rehabilitated, it's only to say that he was Chinese and therefore couldn't be all bad. Neither Chiang nor Sun, to my knowledge, was a socialist.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 11:00 AM  

I have no idea how much Latrina's 21 crackbabies cost US.

A family member on Medicare sees four different specialists. Yesterday I accompanied him to a medical office (housed in a splendiforous building that only lacked the stained glass windows of a cathedral, it practically sported gold-plated bathroom fixtures) where an Indian surgeon scheduled another $1500-2000 addition to the Dot's paycheck.

It ain't just Latrina who is bankrupting us.

Imagine if, instead of medical services, the FAD-of-the-50-Years had been in-ground swimming pools. Fifty years after Pool-Aid was passed by LBJ's admin, 6 out of 10 well-paid jobs in the USA would be found installing or maintaining pools, or in providing the huge infrastructure for doing so. No matter how many pools someone had, they'd have to have a bigger pool, even if it started to encroach on other pools.

F-ing insane.

The world's doctors have flocked to the USA to get in on the biggest Train Robbery in history, and the train passengers are all waving them aboard. Denninger is right, if the USA does reach Financial Singularity, it will be because one day we wake up and medical services subsume 100% of GDP and 100% of employed people will work in some fashion within that industry.

(Well, 100% of employed people will work in the Medical-, Military-, Government- or Welfare-administration- Cartels.)

Anonymous BBGKB August 16, 2017 11:05 AM  

DC feminism and the role of women, economics, finance, the monetary system, you-name-it.It all grew up organically over centuries

I don't know how David the good feels but I think your definition of organic sucks. The GMO company Montesano is owned by same (((family))) who owned the most slaves in the US.

If you're unsure whether a development is positive or negative, one test is to look at your enemies' reaction to it.

I am uniquely positioned to see the info come across on both right & left.

Leftists are shitting themselves about the possibility that TRUMP will use the DOJ case against Disrupt DJ20 to use the 1.3 million IP addresses to purge leftists in govt jobs the way TRUMP purged over 400 at the VA who let veterans die. Shitlibs are also trying to call confederate generals traitors

They are also talking about how attacking statues in the middle of the night with no notice & setting up go fund me accounts for anyone caught is the best way to get rid of statues including statues of Yankees that were tough on crime (since blacks commit the most crime) like Frank Rizzo. Baltimore removed statues in the dark of night blaming the Nazi rally organized by the jew Kessler.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/16/confederate-statues-taken-baltimore-dead-night/

Anonymous europeasant August 16, 2017 11:06 AM  

The USA will soon be minority White (European) people. I already live in a majority Hispanic area. All the politicians are now Hispanic. If the demographic trends continue we will be ruled by so called "minorities". Africa will soon have 2.5 million Sub-Saharans. Can you imagine if only 10 percent move to the USA? Democracy for us only works in a homogeneous society.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 16, 2017 11:07 AM  

This statue obsession thing seems eerily similar to the Taliban's destruction of ancient Buddhist monuments.

Anonymous fop August 16, 2017 11:11 AM  

Why anyone would follow a birkenstock-wearing vegetarian bohemian art fag socialist gun-grabbing drug addict with a dumb moustache is beyond me.

Anonymous praetorian August 16, 2017 11:12 AM  

As always the sainted Ayn said it best:

Alisa Rosenbaum's collected works should be tossed into the wood chipper at the next Alt-Right yoga meetup.

Anonymous Deadmau5 Patton August 16, 2017 11:13 AM  

When did I subscribe to National Review?

Funny how these sorts of articles reliably emerge every time the pressure turns on. Then after a few weeks it's back to "We're tough, man, and we don't care!"

Anonymous Gorch Fock August 16, 2017 11:19 AM  

VD wrote:This exemplifies Steve Sailer's aphorism "libertarianism is applied autism."
And with regards to identity, remember, Lee Kuan Yew said that in a multi-ethnic society, you vote on race AND religion. The atheists and pagans are no more on our side than bush people and Laotians.

And with regards to identity, remember, Lee Kuan Yew said that in a multi-ethnic society, you vote on race AND religion. The atheists and pagans are no more on our side than bush people and Laotians.


Not quite true. There are atheists in the German and European rightist movements that I consider allies. An Arab or Turk being Christian does not make him an ally, on the other hand. An Arab/Turk will always appear as displaced in Germany as a polar bear in the Savannah.

Regarding the Alt-Reich, they should note that Hitler allied with the Japanese, fighting against his genetic brethren. One can't even call him a white racist.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 11:24 AM  

I wish Vox would move on from this topic.

Blogger Quilp August 16, 2017 11:28 AM  

These swastika wearing cross dressers have managed to make the left's foot soldiers legit, while at the same time discrediting themselves even further, and everyone the left claims is associated with them. Since the left is screaming it is NOT the duty of the executive branch to uphold (protect) the free speech of everyone, especially those we find abhorrent, The right is going to have to take matters into their own hands when dealing with these idiots.

Correct or not, this was portrayed as a battle between the foot soldiers of the left, and the foot soldiers of the right. Until we actually get some foot soldiers to forcibly replace those we disavow, they stick to us like a narrative on cable news. It has come to that. That is reality.

Anonymous BBGKB August 16, 2017 11:38 AM  

Until we actually get some foot soldiers to forcibly replace those we disavow, they stick to us like a narrative on cable news

There was video of swastika carrying people but not video of any swastika carrying people being attacked/confronted by leftists, was this because a jew Kessler organized it & the leftists were told not to attack the swastika carriers because some/all were leftists being paid $25+/hr?

Those who would have carried a swastika in earnest had identified the rally as a jew organized honeypot back in the month of jew lie. https://archive.fo/hacoo

Blogger RobertT August 16, 2017 11:45 AM  

That's a great meme. Better than the average.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 11:48 AM  

I wish Vox would move on from this topic.

That will never happen. Just leave, Fake Right.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 11:48 AM  

@130 These swastika wearing cross dressers

There were, for all intents and purposes, no LARPers at the Charlottesville rally.

The right is going to have to take matters into their own hands when dealing with these idiots.

This is true.

Until we actually get some foot soldiers to forcibly replace those we disavow

You are not going to do anything, forcibly or otherwise.

What will happen, however, is that actual attendees of real-world events will cordially and respectfully explain to the handful of individuals doing things like waving their fresh-off-the-presses Swastika flags, that while their right to do so is respected, doing so isn't doing anyone any favors. When the individual declines the request to stop waving his flag -- and he will -- his decision will be respected. The interaction will be recorded.

Indeed, from here on out, there will be much more in-the-thick-of-it recording. For many reasons, not the least of which to provide our President with all of the tools he's going to need.

Anonymous Looking Glass August 16, 2017 11:50 AM  

This is both on & off topic:

https://kek.gg/i/58SCWN.png

Gay Stalin will love you, Alt-Left

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 11:52 AM  

@124
This statue obsession thing seems eerily similar to the Taliban's destruction of ancient Buddhist monuments.



Probably similar motivations. Erase the past, control the future.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 11:53 AM  

I think youre making the same mistake as the boomer conservatives.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 16, 2017 11:55 AM  

It's important not to fall victim to despair. You don't believe the media's lies, and neither does almost anyone else on the right. The pro-whites in Charlottesville were by and large not Nazis, and the left's tactics are not legitimate in the eyes of most Americans.

This is a great opportunity. The media is attempting to smear all whites who want America preserved as Nazis, claiming that violence like this is justified against those who hate. Send videos like this one to your friends and family who don't already support the Alt Right. This is an easy chance to redpill the shit out of them.

Remind them that the list of things that constitute unacceptable hatred continues to grow each day, and has included the act of simply being white for a long time. Closet leftist like McCain, Romney, and Rubio are now openly justifying violence by the left against anyone who refuses to accept the lies of the left, because that act of refusal makes you a Nazi.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 16, 2017 11:57 AM  

@134 There were, for all intents and purposes, no LARPers at the Charlottesville rally.

The LARPers were definitely out in force during the torchlight march on Friday.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 11:59 AM  

Indeed, from here on out, there will be much more in-the-thick-of-it recording

Should have been there from the start, including overwatch when possible. Livestream in a conspicuous way backed up with cheap "spy pen" recorders. Getting images of cops is now necessary too.

Blogger The Feast Presents August 16, 2017 12:01 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger PoseidonAwoke August 16, 2017 12:02 PM  

Vox, Mind if I question your premise of the Left-Right spectrum?

I have been doing a lot of work on the Three Estates of the Realm. I have a video where I cover it:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/IYMHfHNGHxP2

My top level critique of the collectivist-individualist left-right spectrum is that it is purely ideological and is a single-axis theory. Single-axis causality is rare in nature, usually causes are more complex

The reason I think 3-Estates theory is more explanatory is because it is a biological theory, incorporating evolutionary psychology.

I also talk about this in my Left vs Right: Root Conflict video.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/jHqlKBz1Nvde

My contention is that essentially, the Left is female and the Right is elder males and Libertarians are younger males.

Individualism (libertarian/merchant/bourgeoise): This is the position of younger males in society who advocate to be free to produce and to keep their production. (See the evo-psych biological drive behind the ideological position?) Time scope is mid-term (next few harvests).

Conservative (aristocratic/warrior/judge): This is the position of older men of the tribe who see the entire society as a breeding population which must be maintained. These men are concerned with taking production and investing it in defense, building and manning the walls against invaders. Time scope is long term (permanent survival of the group). Notice that this group orientation would be deemed COLLECTIVIST under your proposed conception.

Progressive (priest/church/female/old/poor): This is the position of females, who care for their children and others. They rely on a network of women (historically) for survival, and so value consensus over empirical fact. Time scope is short term (baby needs food and clothes today). Notice that this groups orientation is what we really mean when we use the world COLLECTIVIST.

In short, I argue that individualism is not the 'true right', nor are those who are interested in collective self-defense somehow 'the left'. Those who are entirely dependent upon the production provided by young males and the defense provided by the elder males, are the 'true left'.

Anonymous Roundtine August 16, 2017 12:03 PM  

@120 Chiang is being put back into museums and shown positively in historical dramas. As for Sun, parks are named after him and there's a major university named after him in Guangzhou. You can openly discuss Sun in China. Chiang not so much because he did like killing commies.

Blogger Timmy3 August 16, 2017 12:04 PM  

Definitely Fake Right, but more pressure on Alt Left. Antifa is constantly excused for inciting violence. The blame is always misdirected. Trump has balls for calling it out, but he stands alone. No one supports him.

Blogger The Feast Presents August 16, 2017 12:06 PM  

Identity is what ideology and living life flows from. But humanity lost its true identity. Adam was created in the relational image and relational likeness of God - what John describes about Jesus as coming in truth (relational image) and grace (relational grace). In other words Relational truth is the relational context in which the Godhead exists - the never changing, always the same part, the same yesterday, today and forever. It is from this relational truth context that infinite expressions of relational grace flow. Like a fountain - relational grace flows from relational truth.

Thus from the scriptures and the life of Christ we come to see that the relational truth context that the Godhead exists in is relational Communion, relational Union, and relational distinction - it is from this context that unlimited expressions of love flow. In whatever we do (express ourselves) we must not violate our relational Communion, Union and Distinction (CUD for short - something to chew on perhaps). What we face then are people and systems that violate these in what they do, express, establish, or suggest.

Interestingly the Greek term translated church (ecclessia) actually means outside identity or other identity - ek - kaleo. But "ek" always points to origin thus it is those who see or are restored to their original identity - the identity we lost in Adams sin.

In Adam we became conscious of another way of seeing, being, and judging. It was called the tree of the knowledge of morality for a reason. Morality is a non-relational way of seeing, being, and judging - But then the question becomes who's morality - in which case morality becomes a great way to disseminate hatred without exposing ones self as hateful - well except that many have figured this out.

Tragically the church is promoting this awful thing - what Paul describes as the carnal mind - which is death - to live in death. Thus the church is promoting the very things that Christ came to free humanity from. Society would be well advised to learn from the churches mistake and the church might consider their propensity to pass on the family crap - it is time to break the cycle - to begin living in our true identity of CUDL relationship (in communion and union without losing distinction and expressing ourselves in love from this context). In fact expressions of love from something other than a frame of Communion, union, and distinction can do great harm - truth and grace, image and likeness, one apart from the other is useless and can be destructive.

at 10:36 pm Sept 29, 2027 EST there will be a CUDL insurgency that will take place and last for 1000 years until there is an uprising once again of this who insist on living in a non-relational frame of seeing, being and judging.

Welcome to the rest of our lives as we know it on planet earth.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 12:08 PM  

Indeed, from here on out, there will be much more in-the-thick-of-it recording. For many reasons, not the least of which to provide our President with all of the tools he's going to need.

Very smart. Dronecams would have been very useful too, both for spotting and recording purposes.

I think youre making the same mistake as the boomer conservatives.

I'm not making any mistake at all. My case is conclusive and impeccable. As will be demonstrated in the near future.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 12:10 PM  

"Taking this fundamental dichotomy between the supremacy of the community and the primacy of the individual as a starting point, it becomes relatively easy to determine where an individual or party happens to fall on the political spectrum if communism is accepted as the anchoring point for the extreme left wing. "

"For there is one thing that we must never forget... The majority can never replace the man." Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

"…As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you.” Nor can the head say to the feet, “I do not need you.” On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,…" Corinthians 12:20-22

The funny thing is that National Socialism is a moderate ideology. It would have fit in well with the founders: Political protection of the individual from the government, yet social cohesion was foundational.

The only reason that a truly moderate ideology ever caused such a stir was due to the truly sick state of Europe at the time. A state that persists even today, ergo the resistance to the proper alignment of society as a result of implementing what is not a political or economically based ideology, but an ideology of spiritual health and self-determination that retained a political title.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 12:10 PM  

Just try to read "145. The Feast Presents August 16, 2017 12:06 PM" without laughing!

I lost it at "CUD".

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 16, 2017 12:11 PM  

"Trump has balls for calling it out, but he stands alone. No one supports him."

Not true. The fake news has reached fever pitch in trying to portray that Trump is alone, and the cucks who never actually supported Trump have become eager to out themselves, but Trump still has massive support among the right. That support only intensified after yesterday.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 12:12 PM  

@139 The LARPers were definitely out in force during the torchlight march on Friday.

Light ceremonies are hardly unique to Nazism. But I, personally, would agree if you were to call it overzealous.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 12:12 PM  

@146

"I'm not making any mistake at all. My case is conclusive and impeccable. As will be demonstrated in the near future."

I agree we will. In the meantime I hope you dont mind if I keep reading your blog and respectfully commenting.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 16, 2017 12:14 PM  

In-the-thick-of-it recording is only a good idea if it doesn't show a bunch of guys shouting Hail Victory and throwing Roman salutes. Because that will just backfire.

Anonymous Taxonomy August 16, 2017 12:15 PM  

Vox is the world champion of tilting at esoteric strawmen. Invented enemy of the day: Chinese Nazis. Last week we were supposed to hate Arab Nazis, or NeoBabylonians, or white people. Here's the taxonomy you need to understand: Vox is a performing flea and his only purpose is to shill kosher books. Buy my books!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 16, 2017 12:15 PM  

@150 It wasn't just the torches.

Blogger Sheila4g August 16, 2017 12:16 PM  

@117 BBGKB: I recall reading about the Somali family (actually single mother and mentally "disabled" kids) long ago. You've used that example before, but I've never heard whether their "outrage" made any difference - aren't they still supporting the Africans? Not to mention, unfortunately, the reportedly large number of Africans and Arabs in the country overall. After all, Switzerland made the fatal mistake of finally giving women the franchise, with predictable results.

Blogger dienw August 16, 2017 12:19 PM  

Three Principles of the People

Interesting. Just off the cuff, I can see the Free-Marketists opposing numbers One and Three which, by extension, means an end to number Two.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 16, 2017 12:21 PM  

The LARPers were definitely out in force during the torchlight march on Friday.

Torchlight rallies are definitely part of the Nazi aesthetic

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) August 16, 2017 12:23 PM  

The funny thing is that National Socialism is a moderate ideology.

Only compared to Communism

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 12:24 PM  

@146 Dronecams

Varying city ordinances, mostly grey-area. But yes.

@152 and @154:

Let not your heart be troubled.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 12:24 PM  

@146
Dronecams would have been very useful too, both for spotting and recording purposes.


D'oh! Multiple dronecams for overwatch since the rooftops are bound to be off limits or occupied by state forces. "We have to do this to be able to identify violent alt-Leftists because the police won't".

Blogger peppermint88 August 16, 2017 12:30 PM  

Ultranationalism, as exists in multi-ethnic empires such as the Habsburg Empire that Hitler complained about in Mein Kampf and the American Empire that today's Hitlerist ultranationalists are complaining about now, is the dominant ethnic group's concern about getting cucked by the state and desire for a state exclusively for itself.

Ultranationalists don't care for religious freedom, they want their religion to be dominant, they don't care for economic freedom but want their people to prosper, and so on.

Ultranationalism can only exist in an empire, which is why is used to be confusing to Americans.

Right and left are defined by moral tendencies, not political ideologies or specific stances. Ultranationalism is of the right, but it is hard to say who is more to the right.

Vox, call us ultranationalists, say that we can't even convince all our people but the God-Emperor can, say that the Holy American Empire and its freedoms can and will be good for us. That's an argument all modern Hitlerists should respect.

(n.b. I used to be an occutard then a neoreactionary before becoming a Hitlerist)

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 12:34 PM  

(n.b. I used to be an occutard then a neoreactionary before becoming a Hitlerist)



But what about your relationship to CUD?

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 12:37 PM  

@142

Very spenglerian-weininger of you.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 16, 2017 12:40 PM  

Not quite true. There are atheists in the German and European rightist movements that I consider allies. An Arab or Turk being Christian does not make him an ally, on the other hand. An Arab/Turk will always appear as displaced in Germany as a polar bear in the Savannah.

@128 Gorch Fock
The vast majority of atheists are leftist. Just look at any Pew survey.

And "you vote on race and religion" doesn't contradict how a Christian Middle Easterner doesn't belong in Germany... since there's a racial mismatch. It's more obvious here in the USA, since most blacks and Latin Americans are Christian.

Blogger James August 16, 2017 12:43 PM  

I have always wondered about trying to sell the swastika as some kind of noble symbol of White people. Its origins are lost in the past. The only thing Hitler did was to invert the "legs" by pointing them out to the right as opposed to the common direction of left. Because the "swastika" was supposed to rotate, this changed the direction of the rotation from clockwise to counter-clockwise. For those of you that like to waste time dwelling on "symbolism", this changed the rotation from to the right to to the left. The left has usually been associated with evil. But, that is not what I am getting at. The swastika flag is just ugly.
Aren't Whites supposed to be the great creators and proponents of beauty? If someone selects the swastika as their symbol. they are completely ignoring the symbolism and lack of beauty and focusing on Adolph Hitler. I'm not saying Hitler wasn't above average in intelligence. I don't really know. Apparently, his gift was that he could gin up the German people with his foaming at the mouth oratory. But, he was completely buffaloed by the jews and did incredibly idiotic things, like selecting Italy and Japan as his "allies", invaded a huge land mass while already fighting on 2 or 3 other fronts, and declared war on the US. Both he and the German people have not understood since Germany was created by Bismarck that you need "friends" in the world. The went into Eastern Europe, Russia, the Ukraine, etc., and instead of taking advantage of the fact that the East hated Russia, they made them hate the Germans more. Way to go Adolph! No, the swastika is the symbol of failure, arrogance, and negative characteristics, not a beautiful, noble symbol of unity. Get rid of it.

Blogger Dedd Sirius August 16, 2017 12:48 PM  

Punch a Commie!

Punch a Socialist!

Anonymous Orderly Rightist August 16, 2017 12:48 PM  

Left is chaos, Right is order.

Defining the left–right axis in terms of political entropy, as illustrated here, better matches historical usage (including the original seating order in the National Assembly) while still capturing our intuition about who is to the right of whom.

As Moldbug put it: "The party of the left, on the bottom, or on the top is always the party of chaos. Out of power, it vandalizes; in power, it tyrannizes."

Anonymous johnc August 16, 2017 12:50 PM  

@154 It wasn't just the torches.

Wow that does look retarded as hell. And not only that but I think we know that that fight wasn't started by the leftist protesters. No way.

I think these young guys are looking for a sense of purpose and this is what they've stumbled upon.

That video is a bit of an eye-opener.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 16, 2017 12:52 PM  

Indeed, from here on out, there will be much more in-the-thick-of-it recording.

The more the better. Nowadays, it's susprising when something happens and it isn't filmed from a dozen different angles. I suppose it's hard to hold a camera steady when you're being pepper-sprayed by cops on one side and pelted with rocks by Alt-Left on the other, though.

Blogger bw August 16, 2017 12:54 PM  

apply for a permit for a free speech rally in DC at one of the founder's monuments

I wonder when that Albert Pike statue will be coming down...

Blogger Cail Corishev August 16, 2017 12:57 PM  

There were, for all intents and purposes, no LARPers at the Charlottesville rally.

I could be wrong, but I took him to mean by this that they weren't LARPing, not that they weren't there. In other words, however many or few people were waving Nazi flags and doing salutes, they weren't putting on an act for shock value; they meant it.

Blogger August August 16, 2017 1:02 PM  

I was so libertarian I started calling myself an anarchist, until I realized I just don't control the language. Also realized Lou Rockwell's phrase- anarchy as lack of rulers, not of rules was actually what we have now. Bureaucrats aren't rulers; owners are. So we are tyrannized with rules (laws) but nobody owns anything.

We'd literally have to win and teach cultural Voxism in the schools to change this left/right thing. It would take a generation or two, and then probably be changed again when monarchy comes back into vogue.

Anonymous Luca Brayson August 16, 2017 1:07 PM  

Stupid question here. Saying that Nazis are left is good dialectic. But is it good rhetoric? Normies see Nazis as far right, it doesn't matter how stupid the idea is, once you try to contradict it you just end up going down the rabbit hole of arguing about the political spectrum.

Or are normies not the intended audience here? Is the argument intended to stick with people who already identify as alt-right and make us think, is nationalism enough or does alt-right mean nationalism plus right wing political philosophy?

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 1:09 PM  

@171 I could be wrong, but I took him to mean by this that they weren't LARPing, not that they weren't there. In other words, however many or few people were waving Nazi flags and doing salutes, they weren't putting on an act for shock value; they meant it.

Yes. Sorry, I should have made that clear.

That said, just in terms of sheer numbers, I would say the same thing and it would (almost) not be hyperbole.

Blogger DonReynolds August 16, 2017 1:10 PM  

The word that has been lost is Totalitarian, as opposed to Freedom, sometimes Collective, as opposed to the Individual. That is the tradeoff. Such a spectrum would have Nazis and Communists and the Taliban nearly 100% Totalitarian. There is no Freedom for the individual. The collective is everything. That would be the Left.

Near the center would be the garden variety Euro Socialist with a huge welfare state and lots of taxes and bureaucracy, but you still have private property.

On the Right end would be complete Freedom and no government, also known as Anarchy. Give up some Freedoms (but not many) and you have Libertarian. Give up some more and you have Republican. Give up many more and you have Democrat. Give up any more and you are back to the Socialists in the center.

This was actually how the political spectrum was taught in schools before the Cold War. I have an Army Officers Handbook from the 1950s that uses the same spectrum. Totalitarianism was the threat to Freedom. Absolute Freedom for every individual (Anarchy) would be chaos, so to create an orderly society, some freedoms must be sacrificed. (Drive on the right hand side of the road and observe reasonable speed limits.)

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 16, 2017 1:12 PM  

Toe The Line wrote:People with skin in the game like Anglin, Spencer and Enoch earned real influence with Trump
This is pure delusion, industrial grade denial of reality. It's seriously doubtful that Trump has even heard of Anglin or Enoch, and Spencer is who he called out last weekend.

Irrelevant Vox can only indulge in childish tantrums. Vox why don't you do something useful and support the movement instead of raging like a hysterical woman? Most importantly for you: it would be good for book sales. Shekels!
You know, rhetoric has to impact in order to have impact. You might as well criticize Vox as an absurdly tall homo with too much hair and a '70s porn moustache.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 16, 2017 1:16 PM  

@Vox
As is clear from the discussion here, the conclusion must necessarily follow from the definition of "Right".
I'd suggest getting that nailed down before the debate, perhaps even asking Greg for his definition and working with that as a given.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. August 16, 2017 1:18 PM  

OT: In the dark of night.


Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 1:22 PM  

Gamma butthurt. Sooner or later it always comes to the surface.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 16, 2017 1:24 PM  

@178

Erasing history is hard work. Requires both the day shift and the night shift.

Blogger Eaalim Institute August 16, 2017 1:25 PM  

Great blog, Thanks.



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Blogger DonReynolds August 16, 2017 1:29 PM  

There is too much fetish for symbols. They are like trademarks and like trademarks, they are sometimes stolen and re-branded. I guess that would be like Cattle Rustling.

Yes, things can get confusing. At the start of WWII, the Oklahoma National Guard still had the swastika for their shoulder patch. They did not know it as a swastika and they certainly were not Nazis. To them, it was the symbol of the Thunderbird.....bringer of Rain, a very mighty American Indian deity...what the ancient Norse pagans would know as Thor.

Of course, when the US entered the war, the Oklahoma National Guard had to change their shoulder patch. This was relatively simple because all of the National Guard units were called into Federal service for the war effort.

There was a US movie made about this simple fact and a scene where an old Indian is telling the young Indian army recruit to "bring the Thunderbird home. It has been stolen."

Blogger ZhukovG August 16, 2017 1:30 PM  

@A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents: Their hero was possibly the most successful Gamma in history. Guess it's not surprising that they would attract a large number of them.

Anonymous Koanic August 16, 2017 1:32 PM  

The political spectrum isn't a spectrum because humans are cyclical. You can't give English liberty to a corrupt mob. "Reactionary" and "progressive" describe both an historical progression towards technological scale and also a clockwise vs counterclockwise movement on the cycle of history.

To disambiguate, call scale+tech progression "modern" vs "anti-modern". Call wheel movement clockwise "progressive", and counter-clockwise "reactionary".

Then, at any particular historical moment, with its given level of modernity and wheel degree, you will have competitors, stress toleraters and ruderals pursuing their strategies and attempting to modify the environment in their favor.

If you squeeze the UAST trichotomy down to an r/K binary, you get "Right vs Left", which varies in its expression.

Blogger VD August 16, 2017 1:44 PM  

Vox is the world champion of tilting at esoteric strawmen. Invented enemy of the day: Chinese Nazis.

It's remarkably amusing that you think I invented the principles of Mínzú, Mínquán, and Mínshēng 63 years before I was born.

Often, it's not necessarily that I'm so much smarter than my critics, it's just that I'm smart enough not to assume that I know everything.

Anonymous Grayman August 16, 2017 1:55 PM  

If you really want to get strategic, Start using the "alt-right" events, from rallies to the google events to simply collect facial images of the leftists that show up. With currently available facial recognition software you could build a very useful and interesting database in a short period of time.

Blogger August August 16, 2017 1:59 PM  

I think people are doing the face image thing. On both sides. Some of these guys were actually talking to the police, providing them with information on potentially violent leftists. They didn't realize Virginia was no longer American.

And, of course, the left tries to get everybody right fired, so they are attempting to identify everybody.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 16, 2017 2:07 PM  

Demonic Professor El wrote:
POST: Hitler also wanted to basically kill off much of what we would consider the white race. Slavs were dirty and to be eradicated; "white" Americans he felt were mongrels of whom only a few could live.

He should be the Progressive Left's hero, really.


We often remark how clueless the typical libtards are about the facts of history, but this is a case where - apart from agent provacateurs from ADL and the regime's various police agencies - a similar blindness exists amongst numbers of whites who fly the Nazi flag in order to give an emphatic FU the genocidal enemy found in the ranks of BLM, Antifa, et al. Most have no clue that 2/3 of those murdered by Hitler's regime were whites. I am not aware of any detailed studies of how many of the various white groups (Germans, French, Italians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Baltics, Ukrainians and Russians) were actual communists vs. merely opposed to German rule over their countries.

Blogger DonReynolds August 16, 2017 2:07 PM  

@142 PoseidonAwoke

You seem to ignore what you have demonstrated: The dynamic of young men becoming older men. Of course, there will also be young men who imitate older men or follow the lead of older men. We see that every day. The son who wants to be his father or even who... he wishes was his father.

Your evolutionary piece was probably more useful when females were not part of the political system, but now they are. In this country, they have been part of the political system for a century. (In Switzerland, women did not vote in Federal elections until 1971 and the last of the canons had to concede the women vote in local elections by court decision only in 1991.)

All of which is terribly interesting for anyone focused on the role of women (and men) in any given society, but it does little to separate the spectrum of politics into various degrees.

Blogger Francis The Pope August 16, 2017 2:08 PM  

Honestly don't care if I am labeled left or right, I am pro white and I oppose the anti whites. The Republicans that support mass immigration and MLK I am not on their side, if they are called right wing, then I don't want t be called right wing.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 2:26 PM  

@190

Amen, brutha

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 2:29 PM  

"Most have no clue that 2/3 of those murdered by Hitler's regime were whites. I am not aware of any detailed studies of how many of the various white groups (Germans, French, Italians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Baltics, Ukrainians and Russians) were actual communists vs. merely opposed to German rule over their countries."

War is not simple. In war, men often do things that conflict with their goals or ideals, because its war. Hitler also offered peace to Britian multiple times and let french and British troops escape what would have been a slaughter at dunkirk.

A green beret was discharged from the military because he beat up an sand merchant for molesting a child... Does that make us pro-paedo? No, it doesnt.

Anonymous Antipas August 16, 2017 2:29 PM  

I'm curious to know if the Nazis actually self-applied the term "right" or if it was a label stuck on them after the war.

If it's the latter, who is responsible? The democrats? Left wing college professors?

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 16, 2017 2:31 PM  

Francis The Pope wrote:
Honestly don't care if I am labeled left or right, I am pro white and I oppose the anti whites. The Republicans that support mass immigration and MLK I am not on their side, if they are called right wing, then I don't want t be called right wing.

The left/right terms are largely obsolete now. The real dividing line is globalist vs. nationalist. If you want the white nations to survive, nationalism is your side. Hell, if you even really want to save the natural world - the globalists are your enemy. They are a black hole of evil intent on strip-mining the entire planet for their own power and wealth.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 2:32 PM  

@193

Why not try to figure out if the National Socialists were right wing or left wing yourself?

It would require actually analyzing them in an objective manner... and we all know that is not ok, now dont we?

Blogger BlowMe August 16, 2017 2:38 PM  

Excellent analysis, Vox, particularly the quantification of political philosophies in comparison to 00 Communism.

I look forward to more of this kind upon the publication of your "Alt-right Revolution", or as I like to call it, "Rise of the Anti-Cucks"

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents August 16, 2017 2:43 PM  

I'm curious to know if the Nazis actually self-applied the term "right" or if it was a label stuck on them after the war.

What difference does that make?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 16, 2017 2:48 PM  

SomeAsshole wrote:A green beret was discharged from the military because he beat up an sand merchant for molesting a child... Does that make us pro-paedo? No, it doesnt.
Objectively, it does.

Antipas wrote:I'm curious to know if the Nazis actually self-applied the term "right" or if it was a label stuck on them after the war.
It was not a self-appelation, but it predates the war. It was the European Commies who started calling them Right. Hitler always maintained he was a Leftist.

Blogger SomeAsshole August 16, 2017 2:59 PM  

@198

no, objectively it doesnt. This is the differences between tactics and strategy.

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