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Friday, August 25, 2017

What say you, supporters

I like to think that I know my own supporters' minds better than the average individual, but I could be wrong. What say you?
Vikfield‏ @vikfield
This was a really bad idea. You are dividing the right by forcing this meme. Please re-think this.

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
You can't divide the Right by pointing out who is not, and has never been, of the Right. We tried this with the neocons, remember?

Vikfield‏ @vikfield  55m55 minutes ago
Btw, check out the RT and Like stats on this Meme vs your other #DailyMemeWars What you are doing is not popular with your own people

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
It wasn't popular when I predicted the 2008 financial crisis either. I don't give a quantum rat's ass about popularity. I never have.

Vikfield‏ @vikfield
I'm not talking about popularity with the masses but within your own supporters. What you are doing is illogical and we can see that.
Vikfield is a genuine supporter of two years duration. So, I'm willing to hear him out and at least entertain the possibility that his assertion is correct. Here is the meme and the statistics compared to other recent #DailyMemeWars tweets. The tweet in question is italicized.


Aug 25:  9,747 Impressions, 152 Likes, 136 Retweets
Aug 24: 26,215 Impressions, 200 Likes, 143 Retweets
Aug 23: 21,539 Impressions, 271 Likes, 200 Retweets
Aug 22: 37,030 Impressions, 428 Likes, 305 Retweets

I have to admit, it's not a spectacularly successful meme - far too wordy and rather esoteric - but I think it would be stretching it somewhat to claim that it is "not popular" with my own people. I am not going to back down on anything I've said, but I'm quite willing to hear your opinions concerning my take on the Fake Right.

Speaking of which, you'd think they'd learn. But they never do.
Supreme Dark Lord @voxday
I don't do rallies. Or events. Or conventions. I reject all speaking invitations and I have for 16 years.

Jason Kessler‏ @TheMadDimension
Is that because of your stutter?

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
No, it's because of your face. Your soft, pasty-white, terrified face with tears running down it as a girl tackled you.

Labels: ,

438 Comments:

1 – 200 of 438 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Cecil Henry August 25, 2017 12:16 PM  

Guys:

Don't fight east to west.

Fight NOrth to South.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 25, 2017 12:16 PM  

Its only problem is that it is too wordy.

Especially considering it's yours, Vox, it feels kind of out of character.

Blogger James Jones August 25, 2017 12:17 PM  

Spencer's position is incoherent.

Anonymous Faceless August 25, 2017 12:18 PM  

It needs something pithier like "Nazi Because Socialist = Fake Right" or "Nazi Globo Socialist = Fake Right" - the text under Fake Right is the problem. Fake Right should be the punchline.

Spencer probably has to become an unapologetic bad guy who has few friends to be something in the future; he is going to have a hard time being middle class respectable.

It's hard to talk about Trump's agenda if the conversation is about 50 or 500 LARPers; I don't think this helped us get the wall.

Blogger Orville August 25, 2017 12:18 PM  

It's not my favorite, but there is nothing objectionable about it. National Socialists and International Socialists are not part of us. Never have been and never will be.

Anonymous Sharukin August 25, 2017 12:19 PM  

If I have to chose between survival and the free market, I will choose survival.

Socialism isn't something I support but it is a secondary consideration given what the leftists want to do to us.

You don't have to agree with everything an ally does to keep them as allies.

Blogger Timmy3 August 25, 2017 12:19 PM  

Kessler being paid by CNN is more to the point.

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 12:19 PM  

Richard Spencer was bashing the Iraq war and Conservatism Inc a decade ago. He coined or at least popularized the term 'alt-right. I've been familiar with the guy for quite some time, never been crazy about him but never had any beef with him either. Whatever his faults, he has as much claim to call himself "alt-right" as anyone.

Most relevant though, he's an actual white American who lives in America who isn't drinking the Marxist koolaid. That puts him on my side.

If I have to chose one side or the other because of 'spergy quibbling over who is and who isn't really truly "right", then I'm siding with spencer.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 25, 2017 12:19 PM  

"Beyond Nationalism."

FAKE "RIGHT".

"Globo-Homo Socialism is "Wrong".

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 25, 2017 12:21 PM  

"he's an actual white American who lives in America who isn't drinking the Marxist koolaid..."

Socialism IS the Marxist Kool-Aid.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera August 25, 2017 12:21 PM  

I've said my piece on this, so I'll content myself with saying that engagement statistics can't predict partisanship.

Blogger VD August 25, 2017 12:22 PM  

If I have to chose one side or the other because of 'spergy quibbling over who is and who isn't really truly "right", then I'm siding with spencer.

Fair enough. But good luck with that. You see, the people who actually have experience working with him are moving in exactly the opposite direction.

Blogger S1AL August 25, 2017 12:23 PM  

It's too detailed, not enough pop. Would have been better to go with "Shut up, globalist shill," or some such.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 25, 2017 12:25 PM  

Probably better if you could find a way to attack vdare and Amren as well.

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 12:25 PM  

"Fair enough. But good luck with that. You see, the people who actually have experience working with him are moving in exactly the opposite direction."

I see that happening. I really don't see the point in piling on.

Blogger Orville August 25, 2017 12:25 PM  

@8 Whatever his faults, he has as much claim to call himself "alt-right" as anyone.

A cat is not an alt-dog. We are saying we don't like our crappy little chihuahua and would like the alternative of a pit bull, not a cat.

Spencer's kind are cats. There is nothing "right" about them. They are leftists.

Blogger S1AL August 25, 2017 12:27 PM  

If that's too aggressive, could also excise the last bit entirely and just have the attribution read "Richard Spencer, Globalist Shill".

Blogger Dos Voltz August 25, 2017 12:27 PM  

It's not divisive at all, IMHO. Accurate, but not a strike in the vagina with a pepper bag like some of your other memes.

Spencer is simply proof that "pro-white" doesn't necessarily equate to the political right. If he is for a Nazi style economic platform, then he's a leftist, just like Obama, Krugman, and Al Gore.

I'll take my "pro-white" with more freedom and dignity please.

Oh, and Hillary Clinton will never be president.

Anonymous Acapulco Gold August 25, 2017 12:27 PM  

"Richard Spencer is not a nationalist" is extremely effective rhetoric. It has absolutely devastated the most devout alt-recihtard when you point out that Spencer is very pro-EU. You know this is effective rhetoric because they are begging you not to use it.

Anonymous WaterBoy August 25, 2017 12:27 PM  

"far too wordy and rather esoteric"

Correct.

"your opinions concerning my take on the Fake Right"

Also correct, albeit moot. By their own definition, anyone fighting the Left is automagically Right.


Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 25, 2017 12:27 PM  

Probably better if you could find a way to attack vdare and Amren as well.

Blogger Colton Hatch August 25, 2017 12:29 PM  

The wordiness makes it not clever. It almost comes off as DR3 (democrats are the real racists). I wouldn't call it "punching right," since technically he is not to our right. I would just rather see a meme with one of the losers with a nazi flag and a line like "does this look like an ubermensch?" Which is pretty esoteric too. If I understand the point of it, we want to push out legit neo nazi's from the movement. I like that, especially since Spencer may be forced to read some economics just to stay relevant.

Anonymous Casual August 25, 2017 12:29 PM  

I was content to ignore Spencer until recently. The NEETsocs are an amusing bunch that can sometimes produce good work, but actual Natsocs like Spencer have proven to be nothing but trouble. I don't think focusing memes on him accomplishes much, but I'm not bothered by it either.

Blogger Ezekiel August 25, 2017 12:31 PM  

1. Too wordy.
2. By this logic, is Aleksandr Dugin a rightist? What about the British and French imperialists of old?

(well obviously some imperialists weren't rightists and many rightists had serious problems with imperialism)

As for Spencer, I almost wonder if we'd all be better off ignoring him, until he either goes away or reveals what exactly his game is.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain August 25, 2017 12:32 PM  

My take: Spencer is easily a net positive, and this is wrongheaded.

Anonymous Fight Spencership August 25, 2017 12:32 PM  

What are you trying to say here? Your entire criticism is in the last four words, for which your context is not the same as anyone else.

More effective would be: "Famous for getting punched." or "His face paid the price for his fame"

Now you have to explain how is not "really" right, but I can't think of a simple way to do that. Maybe because your argument is clear enough.

Maybe a picture of him getting hit and "Two socialists duking it out."

Blogger JACIII August 25, 2017 12:33 PM  

He's alt-retard and his guys are alt-retard.
He/They had an opportunity to learn better after the inauguration party misstep and have still steadfastly refused to stop being a dancing monkey for the press.
He's a walking power point presentation for the other side.

Blogger Stephen Davenport August 25, 2017 12:34 PM  

Isn't Kessler who ran like a pussy at Charlottesville, when some weirdo got in his face.

Anonymous Athor Pel August 25, 2017 12:35 PM  

Spencer looks like fed.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams August 25, 2017 12:35 PM  

I agree with you, Vox, but am often at right angles to other people's thinking.

Spencer is not very right. He may or may not be an ally (don't follow enough to know), but he is fairly left. No harm in pointing it out. It soldifies the 16 points.

Anonymous WinstonWebb August 25, 2017 12:36 PM  

One cannot support Free Speech, Free Association, Freedom of Self Defense, and Freedom of Consciousness while simultaneously supporting the psychotic, globalist, socialist aspirations of a long-dead megalomaniacal dictator.

Spencer is alt-schizophrenic.

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 12:36 PM  

Spencer's kind are cats. There is nothing "right" about them. They are leftists.
-------------------
I spend something close to 100% of my available time trying to push basic "Real True Conservatives" modestly to the right, trying to get them to drop the color-blind nonsense and understand the ramifications of massive demographic changes to the country.

They make exactly the same sorts of arguments you're making here.

Blogger tweell August 25, 2017 12:38 PM  

It's too wordy, and has a lot of dialectic for a meme. Faceless's "Nazi Globo Socialist = Fake Right" would be much better.

Anonymous Iacobus August 25, 2017 12:38 PM  

There's nothing wrong with taking a step back and pointing out things that may be wrong, such as, e.g., sympathizing with those that think Nazism is just ducky. (Protip: It's not. Just to be clear: I also don't like Chosenites and muzzies. I'm an equal opportunity hater.)

That last part made me laugh hard. xD

Blogger Bodo Staron August 25, 2017 12:40 PM  

The AltRight position Spencer has promoted is of course not of the "right" as you define it. He promotes a couple of things that are not "of the right". Universal healthcare, for example. He had also a lot of influence from Dugin. Duginism, in short, takes whatever is popular in any are or group, promotes that, to achieve it's real goal.

His idea of a Pan-European Nation is a fantasy, and I told him that he doesn't understand Europe then.

Would be great if you have a debate, he can lay it out, what his idea or philosophy is, the foundation.

Blogger Dedd Sirius August 25, 2017 12:40 PM  

When I got this meme in my Meme Ward email, my first thought was that it i agree with it, but that only a tiny percentage of the population/audience would understand it.

This is assuming that the audience is normies.

Richard Spencer's face is not well known, nor his detailed positions, so this meme draws too esoteric of a distinction.

Stated another way, it is only effective with a very narrow audience.

Anonymous BanjoStrap August 25, 2017 12:41 PM  

I've followed (though seldom commented) on your blog for 9 years and was introduced to your writings through The Irrational Atheist back when I was 16. Your assessment of the hardline White Nationalists match my own arguments with the NatSoc's and Neo-Fascists on /pol/ about the inherently anti-nationalist nature of pan-Europeanism. Some of them were perfectly willing and honest enough to admit that they weren't right-wing but rather the radical center and I was more than willing to accept them as anti-globalist bedfellows on those terms. Most of them are young men, my age, whose frame of reference for right vs left is Communism at the one end and Fascism at the other (and consequently I've seen many of them interpret theocracy and monarchy as being to the left of Fascism which is just insane) and call themselves right-wing out of ignorance if nothing else..

The NatSoc's on 8chan's /pol/ are very vocal about not wanting to be included in the alt-right since they view it as being affirmative of homosexuality, libertarianism and full of normies. So it seems to me the more intellectually honest of them already don't view themselves as properly right-wing and I think it should be telling that the one person who reached out to debate you on the subject agreed with your argument 9/10ths of the time.

Blogger #7139 August 25, 2017 12:42 PM  

The Thursday meme was not one of my all time favorites, but I liked it and retweeted it to the followers I have. Why? Because I am an evil VFM and I roll with whatever Vox happens to send my way.

Blogger Montrose August 25, 2017 12:42 PM  

Why punch against an anti-egalitarian? You don't have that many allies, you know. Economic systems and liberties are important, but survival comes first.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 25, 2017 12:44 PM  

It's too wordy, as you point out. The only examples of effective, wordy memes I can think of involve direct quotes.

And echoing what others have said, I don't think your criticism of Spencer is at all incorrect or unfair but I don't also see it as helpful. I don't see it as a significant misstep or counterproductive, either.

Blogger Jack Aubrey August 25, 2017 12:44 PM  

I fully support this meme; it's just not the home run that today's meme was.

Blogger Ezekiel August 25, 2017 12:45 PM  

Fight Spencership wrote:More effective would be: "Famous for getting punched." or "His face paid the price for his fame"

I'm revising my opinion: commend him for volunteering to be the alt-Left's punching bag--especially since it's a pretty good bet he'll get himself killed if he keeps doing it-- but ignore what he does when not getting punched.

Anonymous Nathanael August 25, 2017 12:45 PM  

Usually love your stuff, Vox, but this "FakeRight" thing is just getting embarrassing. Your Libertarian "economics uber alles" is showing.

Also, even fake news Snopes knows that that's a different Jason Kessler.

http://www.snopes.com/2017/08/17/jason-kessler-soros-deep-state-plant/

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 25, 2017 12:46 PM  

Someone taught me not to shoot to the Right.

Spencer may not be Right, but this sort of thing looks to both your allies and your opponents just like shooting Right. Appearances matter. More simply, what is gained by it?

Personally I would ignore Spencer, in fact, I do ignore Spencer, but I'm not really a strategic thinker. Perhaps the same thought with a suited-up Nazi LARPer would work to better advantage.

Anonymous Cantostop August 25, 2017 12:46 PM  

Have to agree, for your supporters, you made an excellent case with the Johnson interview. This feels petty and counterproductive.

A meme, people are supposed to see and get immediately, and be amusing if not hilarious to them, which helps it spread. This is none of those, definitely not funny at all. Plus while we recognize he may not be right, for those of us seeing Fake Americans all the damn time, he does at least move the Overton window on race and I for one appreciate that. If America was White again, then I'd just think he was wrong, but if America was White, he would be irrelevant.

Surprised that you would create/post this tbh.

Anonymous 7817 August 25, 2017 12:46 PM  

I like it. Getting rid of the Alt-Retards is taking out the trash. It's a lot easier to have a coherent plan when you don't have to defend the people that are signaling that your whole side is a bunch of evil losers.

Anonymous VFM 3061 “Chief Who Notice Things Make Chief Go 'Hmm'” August 25, 2017 12:46 PM  

Agree with @Acopulco Gold (meme was too wordy but theme is devastating to Spencer).

And as for the wayward children who insist on LARPing, Sun Tzu would tell us it's smarter to convert them than to cast them out. Maybe a photo of one of the fatter ones wearing a disheveled uniform with caption "I don't care if I don't convince anyone of anything, I'm wearing my costume outside the house, ma!"

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 25, 2017 12:47 PM  

At least the nazis were nationalists of a sort. Spencer doesn't even have that going for him. Once you have tossed aside the nation and the benefits of uniting people politically based on shared ancestry, language and culture, I'm not sure what you have left to offer that isn't just another form of multiculturalism or the melting pot.

Blogger Stan_qaz August 25, 2017 12:47 PM  

What is it with folks on the right that don't understand that a "Socialist Workers" party is not Right.

Why should anyone on the Right do anything but stand back and cheer them on as the Communists and Nazis duke it out?

I liked the meme, agree it was too wordy but that can be improved the next time someone wants to send a similar message.

Blogger Orville August 25, 2017 12:48 PM  

@37 whose frame of reference for right vs left is Communism at the one end and Fascism at the other

That frame of reference is a 12 inch ruler. You need a broader frame of reference. Communism, Fascism and Nazism are all first cousins politically speaking. Study their history and you will see that Musolini was a follower of Marx and International Socialism before he modified it to a form of National Socialism in Italy, which Hitler copied and added in a racial component.

Blogger Salt August 25, 2017 12:48 PM  

He's a useful tool for the moment. Doesn't matter he's well left of AltRight as he's right of who the targeted enemy is. Don't need to separate him out as he's doing that himself.

Anonymous Urban II August 25, 2017 12:48 PM  

I think the meme is true and truth is more important than popularity.

Blogger The Packetman August 25, 2017 12:48 PM  

I got no complaints with it ... spot on.

Anonymous Acapulco Gold August 25, 2017 12:50 PM  

VD, something like this would be more effective in my opinion:

https://i.imgur.com/PYhhK54.png

Blogger dc.sunsets August 25, 2017 12:50 PM  

Highlighting how marginalized, small and Not-Right are the NS's seems too much like countering the MSM's narrative. I don't think anyone listens. It's not alienating friends, it's another case of "with friends like these, who needs enemies?" Just because someone shows up to your party uninvited doesn't mean they are your buddy or even that you let them past the front door.

I enjoy when the MSM/Cucks look like they're in bed with VIOLENT SCUM.

Making their News Look Fake is something they do well enough on their own.

Blogger Shamgar August 25, 2017 12:50 PM  

Yeah too wordy for an effective meme. But nationalism is right wing, ergo Alt-Right. "Beyond nationalism" smacks of some world government BS, ergo of the left/Marxist.

Blogger ProlapseGoogle August 25, 2017 12:51 PM  

You should really stop with this petty shit. I don't know what happened between you two but it should really stay personal.

Blogger peppermint88 August 25, 2017 12:51 PM  

I cam't think of any way to remove any words and keep it as poignant. I think even Spencer would disavow "pan-racial globo-lite socialism" put to him like that, but if that's what our enemies see him as, and us as, and us as signaling by sharing a word with him, yeah, it is necessary to explicitly countersignal.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 25, 2017 12:51 PM  

This meme is sort of a hybrid between dialectic and rhetoric.

Blogger Quadko August 25, 2017 12:51 PM  

Only commies see nazies to their right. The rest of us see them as one socialist group way to our left.

Nothing wrong with the meme, just felt a little more inside baseball than the ones that really connect emotionally - probably because I don't care enough to recognize his picture.

Blogger Ezekiel August 25, 2017 12:52 PM  

Iacobus wrote:There's nothing wrong with taking a step back and pointing out things that may be wrong, such as, e.g., sympathizing with those that think Nazism is just ducky. (Protip: It's not. Just to be clear: I also don't like Chosenites and muzzies. I'm an equal opportunity hater.)

That last part made me laugh hard. xD


Funny thing is Hitler didn't seem to have any big problem with Muslims, and hated Jews only marginally more than he hated Slavs. He would have considered Richard Spencer's wife to be less human than Trayvon Marton.

Blogger Double E August 25, 2017 12:52 PM  

More effective would be: "Famous for getting punched." or "His face paid the price for his fame"

Effective at what? the point is to show how he is not of the right. The entire left and more than half the right already think that he is seriously flawed, that doesn't need to be memed.

The meme is fine, its just only going to mean anything to a relatively small group of people. We just need a normie version.

Blogger Dirtnapninja August 25, 2017 12:52 PM  

Alexamenos wrote:Richard Spencer was bashing the Iraq war and Conservatism Inc a decade ago. He coined or at least popularized the term 'alt-right. I've been familiar with the guy for quite some time, never been crazy about him but never had any beef with him either. Whatever his faults, he has as much claim to call himself "alt-right" as anyone.

Most relevant though, he's an actual white American who lives in America who isn't drinking the Marxist koolaid. That puts him on my side.

If I have to chose one side or the other because of 'spergy quibbling over who is and who isn't really truly "right", then I'm siding with spencer.



The problem with spencer is that he has a remarkable knack for creating a huge mess everytime he injects himself into something.

He is either incompetent or controlled opposition. Either way, it would be best not to have anything to do with him or his cohorts.

Blogger MendoScot August 25, 2017 12:55 PM  

My principle problem was that, if I hadn't been aware of the context, I probably wouldn't have known who he was. Or at least, it would have taken me a bit to work it out, and the window of impact would have closed.

Today's Punch A Nazi meme is fucking mega for impact.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 25, 2017 12:55 PM  

49. Stan_qaz August 25, 2017 12:47 PM

What is it with folks on the right that don't understand that a "Socialist Workers" party is not Right.

Who cares?

A lot of Republicans including Trump aren't on the right either, but if they are willing to do some good for our side I would say we are not so rich in allies as to turn up our nose at them.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 25, 2017 12:57 PM  

I do love turning "guilt by association" back on the Left/Cucks.

Trump did it, and I think he did it well.

Associate the Left with violent scum.
Associate the Left with openly anti-American "values."
Associate the Left with attacks on freedom, on defenseless people, on those minding their own business, on icons associated with True America (mom, baseball and apple-pie kinds of things.)

Remind people what happens when Alt-Left LOONS are turned loose.

People will ask, of their own volition, who is in bed with such clowns, and they'll see Paul Ryan, Little Marco, the RNC, every democrat politician and of course ABCNNBCBS et al.

They want a war? This makes it difficult to obscure who is the enemy of America.

Blogger VD August 25, 2017 12:58 PM  

You should really stop with this petty shit. I don't know what happened between you two but it should really stay personal.

Tried that. For months. He would NOT stop clowning for the media.

But the final straw was when he failed to provide royalties or provide statements for over two years to a friend of mine, and continues to try to hold him to a contract that he himself failed to uphold. And to date, has refused to respond to a request for arbitration as per the contract.

You guys know me. What are the chances that I'll just ignore someone doing something like that to a friend?

Blogger August August 25, 2017 12:59 PM  

I still think left and are determined by those in control. Spencer is not part of the leftist club, therefore he is right.

That said, except for white identity, he sounds like a big government democrat. Do not want him making policy.

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 1:00 PM  

The problem with spencer is that he has a remarkable knack for creating a huge mess everytime he injects himself into something. 
---
Most of the mess seems to be moaning and gnashing from rival factions in the alt-right.

The last time I paid any attention to Spencer was his speech at A&M a few months ago. I thought he did a very fine job there. A lot of aggies took their first dose of red pill on that day.

My biggest critique of Charlottesville would be enlisting the ACLU. Tactically bad idea in my view.

At any rate, Spencer needs to be viewed more as effect than cause. Massive demographic change --> tribal behavior. Don't blame the white kids for doing the inevitable, we should instead blame ourselves for creating conditions where white identity politics are viewed as necessary for survival.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( You are Welcome ... to go back to the hell hole you came from ) August 25, 2017 1:02 PM  

3. James Jones August 25, 2017 12:17 PM
Spencer's position is incoherent.


Hitler's National Socialism and Mussolini's Fascism always prided themselves on their irrationality.

but you have to give Spencer this; he's being true to real National Socialism.

and real National Socialism isn't anything like what you were taught that it was.

https://2m2l2d2d.blogspot.com/2017/08/what-if-i-told-you-that-german-national.html



28. Stephen Davenport August 25, 2017 12:34 PM
Isn't Kessler who ran like a pussy at Charlottesville, when some weirdo got in his face.


Kessler is the paid Democrat party operative who didn't "join our side" until after Trump had won the presidency.


Anonymous Coal fired bisket August 25, 2017 1:02 PM  

I side with Vox on this. Spencer has risen as far as he can and has shown the limits of the left wing of the movement. Even Damigo his beginning to show his ceiling.

Anonymous Neobali August 25, 2017 1:05 PM  

lol @ ppl who unironically believe Spencer&co actually help the nationalist right. They are a fkn disaster and we all need to start accepting that fact.

I live among centrists. SJWism/ANTIFA is pure cancer to them. They are very, very open to becoming right-wing nationalists. In fact, whenever there hasn't been a controversy in a long time, I see them mustering up the courage and start speaking alt-right talking points.

That stops whenever Spencer&co come out with their latest disaster. They feel ashamed and start moving back to the center.

Because nobody (other than autists and retards) wants to be a part of a group that waves around Nazi flags and then murders young women. And afterwards, nobody cares about "we dindu nuffin! the police betrayed us! the media lied!"

We've gotta smarten up about optics and strategy. "Never punch right" is terrible advice. The left is infested with cancerous, centrist-repellent SJWism & ANTIFA because they never punch left.

If the right wants to survive, there has to be quality control on the kind of material we put out there. And that means punching right against retards like Spencer&co.

Anonymous praetorian August 25, 2017 1:06 PM  

Spencer's positions on all sorts of things are ridiculous. He's still on our side, and wasting time punching at him is pointless unless he does something really stupid. Getting into hat-tipping contests over economics is equally pointless: various enthnostates will pursue various economic policies suited for their people. The socialism/capitalism fight is a boomer/X-er retreat to pre-identity politics, it just isn't the fight right now.

Now is not the time to sub-divide the alt-right. That comes later.

Blogger DeploraBard August 25, 2017 1:06 PM  

Meh..too wordy. A meme should impact you immediately. You have to know a bit about him. I don't agree with a lot of what he does, but Richard is willing to hang himself for his cause. Not strategic, but requires some courage. His problem is that he does not inspire a sense of inate respect based on his manhood. Does he even lift?

Blogger Derek Christman August 25, 2017 1:06 PM  

Just to throw in another vote on this one, Vox is right on and just calling a spade a spade.

Anonymous Acapulco Gold August 25, 2017 1:06 PM  

69. Alexamenos August 25, 2017 1:00 PM

Disagree completely. Richard Spencer is not a nationalist (he was pro-EU!). He dances like a monkey for the media, and keeps harming actual nationalists.

He is either controlled opposition, or incompetent. He is not a nationalist and cannot be supported.

Blogger #0379 August 25, 2017 1:09 PM  

I recognize the hair cut but pay VERY little attention to Mr. Spencer. As for the meme, IMO it's (as others have mentioned) too dialectic. Not wrong, only too weak.

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 25, 2017 1:09 PM  

James Jones wrote:Spencer's position is incoherent.

Even if coherent, it is highly eccentric. The Nazi talk is basically irrelevant other than as an academic exercise. Spencer isn't a Nazi. He is proposing some pan-White, anti-nationalist philosophy.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab August 25, 2017 1:09 PM  

I'm with vox. If he's punching its not to the right. It doesn't matter what others claim. Saying you're right doesn't make you right.

Blogger Shimshon August 25, 2017 1:10 PM  

I disavow being against this meme.

Anonymous kHz August 25, 2017 1:11 PM  

The Spencer quote sounds eerily familiar. Heard such phrasing elsewhere, yet can't quite place it. What springs immediately to mind is Atheism+.

The meme's okay. Too esoteric and wordy, as you say, for a wider audience. The image component could be more active, though that's perhaps getting too personal, I don't know. A pic of Spencer wearing shades, toasting the camera with a glass of champagne, would do the job.

FAKE RIGHT should dominate more.

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 1:12 PM  

@ Acapulco Gold--did you watch his speech at A&M?

Blogger Cail Corishev August 25, 2017 1:14 PM  

Not a great meme for the reasons stated, but I'm fine with your take. Like you, I hoped we could agree to disagree and shoot left. You tried to do that after the salute gaffe, calling it a tactical mistake but not a big deal. That wasn't good enough for Alt-Retard; they had to swarm and insist that you back their play full-force or you're on the other side. That seems to be pretty standard; like Antifa, you're either waving their flag and shouting their slogans just as enthusiastically as they are, or you're their enemy. Their choice.

Blogger Cederq August 25, 2017 1:15 PM  

Oh the Cruelty Artist has struck a mortal blow... "a girl tackled you" I laughed, I cried and fist bumped the air!

Anonymous Acapulco Gold August 25, 2017 1:15 PM  

82. Alexamenos August 25, 2017 1:12 PM

You mean the speech where he made fun of college football, and got booed?

Spencer has no charisma and is completely tone deaf. He admits he is not a nationalist, and was pro-EU. He is not right wing and cannot be supported. I don't want to spam the comments so this conversation is over.

Anonymous ben August 25, 2017 1:17 PM  

Spencer is a tit. He's not smart. He's not disciplined. And he is a liability, so no thanks, and go away, Spencer.

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 1:19 PM  

The question was whether you saw it, and the conversation ended with you not answering the question.

Blogger S1AL August 25, 2017 1:19 PM  

"The socialism/capitalism fight is a boomer/X-er retreat to pre-identity politics, it just isn't the fight right now."

More white people died because of white Socialism than because of all the non-whites on the planet combined. That's not identity politics, it's recognition of history.

Anonymous DissidentRight August 25, 2017 1:20 PM  

Spencer has had ample opportunities to educate himself, see the light, and join the Right.

He clearly has bad judgment. It's not any one thing, but you can see a pattern emerge. Atheism, liberal arts education, remarkable native towards the police, confusion of Nazi trolling with Nazi LARPing, separation from his wife...

Like so many of my generation, he is blindly grasping for meaning in a dying world. But there is no meaning outside of Christ.

Spencerites needs to get back to basics. If you think you can save the nations of the West, surely you can manage going to church on Sunday...

Blogger Were-Puppy August 25, 2017 1:21 PM  

i never paid attention to Spencer to be honest. Was always thinking he is CIA and there to entrap people.

I got no problem with the meme.

Blogger roughcoat August 25, 2017 1:22 PM  

I agree that it's too wordy because most people have the attention span of a fruit fly, but I don't have a problem with the message.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 25, 2017 1:22 PM  

Did the SJWlist get wacked? Can't access it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 25, 2017 1:24 PM  

VD wrote:You guys know me. What are the chances that I'll just ignore someone doing something like that to a friend?
The question is, what are you willing to destroy to get at him?

Anonymous praetorian August 25, 2017 1:25 PM  

Spencer is a tit. He's not smart. He's not disciplined. And he is a liability, so no thanks, and go away, Spencer.

Spencer is smart. He's crazy and incoherent at times, but he is objectively smart.

And he isn't going away, and a lot of good guys, especially younger guys, like him. (Humorously, a lot of the natsoc's on /pol/ hate him.) There is no reason to alienate those people, most of whom aren't on board with pan-europeanism anyway.

Alt-right D&C serves no purpose right now. Once ethnostates are formed (please God, peacefully) the absurdity of a pan-european empire won't matter any more than left-wing Star Trek larping does, and nunnadis will matter.

Blogger tz August 25, 2017 1:26 PM  

It is weak but accurate, but to be more accurate it has to go further away from rhetoric to dialectic.

"No socialism or globalism is alt-Right"

Socialism doesn't even work in a homogeneous nation.

Some of this is analogous to Atheism-Plus. We can't have an alt-right-plus, whatever the plus is. Victory first, then we can decide details. The war has just begun.

The other thing is I doubt there will be a featured meme on Alt-lite, even their worst cuckery and moderation. Even if they said "Trump should forget the wall".

Spencer and white-socialists are an easy target, but moderates do more damage.

Blogger roughcoat August 25, 2017 1:26 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:Did the SJWlist get wacked? Can't access it.

Down for me too.

Blogger Cubby8126 August 25, 2017 1:26 PM  

I'll stick with the side that didn't lose WW2

Anonymous Sharrukin August 25, 2017 1:29 PM  

97. Cubby8126 August 25, 2017 1:26 PM

I'll stick with the side that didn't lose WW2

Communist Russia?

Blogger Were-Puppy August 25, 2017 1:29 PM  

@27 JACIII

He's a walking power point presentation for the other side.
---

Which makes it so convenient for them since they are always looking for a leader to pile up on.

Very convenient. For them.

Blogger Jimmy The Freak August 25, 2017 1:29 PM  

@67 VD

Enough said.

Anonymous Hans Gruber August 25, 2017 1:29 PM  

This is a new iteration of a very old problem. What good is winning if the prize is the same, or even worse, than what you have? But at the same time, you can't worry about what happens after you win so much that you forget to actually win. So that's part of our conundrum. The other point to consider is if Spencer is a net gain or net loss to the alt-right. Personally, I don't like him. I think if he gets discredited, someone more useful can take his place. So in this regard, I'm with Vox.
As for the meme itself, I'm not a fan of the execution. I'll echo the thoughts of other commenters and say it's too wordy. It seems like it's trying to be both rhetoric and dialectic, and at least to me, it fails at both. Making people associate Spencer and his ilk with "fake right" is a solid memetic core, however, and I think a refined version of this meme would be a lot more popular. I would probably go with a brief quote and put "Fake Right" beneath it, in big letters, and let the term speak for itself.

Anonymous Original H August 25, 2017 1:30 PM  

I'm all for memes that group the fake right/nazis with the rest of socialist scum. I don't think this meme is fantastic, but I agree with it conceptually, and it's not particularly bad either.

Blogger Mastermind August 25, 2017 1:30 PM  

I'm not really your supporter anymore, but I can offer some input on its divisiveness.

As you know I think your claim of Nazis being left wing is BS. I also don't think it's worthwhile for anyone on the right to fight Spencer, although I also don't think it's worth salvaging the "alt-right" name, so you have different strategic goals in this regard. If someone DOES want to salvage it, expelling Spencer from it is an absolute must.

That said, Spencer is not even a Nazi, or right wing in any meaningful sense of the word, does little that is actually productive and routinely triggers poor tactical fights that he loses and drags others into that defeat with him. So I'm not particularly broken up if he IS attacked from the right.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 25, 2017 1:30 PM  

Here is a rhetoric for him:

Alt-Globalist

Anonymous krymneth August 25, 2017 1:31 PM  

Even knowing what the meme is trying to say, I don't see it very well.

I haven't had a chance to deploy this yet but I've been tempted to go with something along the line of "You really think the National Socialist German Worker's Party is from the 'far right'? Seriously?" Lacing it with a bit of mockery seems helpful. And it's possible that if word can get out again that "Nazi is just an abbreviation for National Socialist German Worker's Party" that the Nazi term could be at least partially neutered in the hands of the Left. (I don't necessarily mean in these terms, as I using dialectic here; I'm not much for popular rhetoric. But wrapping some rhetoric about that might not be a bad idea.) A leftist is far closer to a Nazi than a Nazi puncher, which would involve, you know, being strong and working out and other hard work they're not really up for.

Anonymous praetorian August 25, 2017 1:33 PM  

Socialism doesn't even work in a homogeneous nation.

What would you call the swiss model?

Blogger Quilp August 25, 2017 1:33 PM  

I am certainly no long time regular here, but I'm with you on being as divisive as one can when it comes to Spencer, the KKK, and the brownshirts. On this blog the merits and pitfalls of National Socialist Germany (also Italy Spain) last century, with special attention to the economic polices get discussed at length. These morons (who I like to call cultural Nazis, because all they have done is taken the worst aspects of Nazi era Germany, and tried to adopt them to 21 century America), they don't seem to have any idea what lead to Germany pursuing the policies it did, or how it all lead to the absolute utter destruction of almost an entire continent. No, all they can see is the torchlit parades, whites standing tall (nothing wrong with that), and when they look around, all they see and hear is white men being trashed in modern day America. But its worse than binary thinking to imagine to stand tall one has to don a swastika or slip a bed sheet over your head.

Like many my age I know, I spent decades putting up with the do-nothing conservatives, and we aren't willing to throw our support now to a movement that is going to allow itself to be destroyed by grown men acting like boys playing the role of gray (german) plastic soldiers in real life. Also, I absolutely agree they aren't on the right anyway, so driving them away is not splitting the movement. But hey, since they like to insist they are on the right, and I have often asked why Muslims and other groups can't seem to police their own..well if they insist they are on the right, then they just put a meme target on themselves- get them

Blogger Alexamenos August 25, 2017 1:34 PM  

^^^this

Alt-righters who think arguments over economic policy, or even placement of borders, matter at this point are putting the cart a bit before the horse.

Blogger Cubby8126 August 25, 2017 1:36 PM  

Da comrad

Blogger Loyd Jenkins August 25, 2017 1:39 PM  

The meme fell short for me. But that doesn't mean it is wrong, or I disagree with it. You can't hit a homerun every at bat. Nothing to worry about here.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 1:45 PM  

Spencer has put literally out himself in the line of fire time and again while Voxie the ex-pat hides behind a computer devolving into some pathetic boomer cuck. Your jealousy and envy are obvious Voxie. You are as pathetic as your alt fag buddies Thernovich, Rat Fucker Jack, and (((loomer))).

Blogger Dave Narby August 25, 2017 1:46 PM  

Much of the "spirit" of The West came from the rebellion that led to the Magna Carta in 1215 and the subsequent legal tradition that followed.

The German NatSocs drew from The East with their addled ad-hoc Aryan mythology.

One is organic, the other a propaganda campaign that took on a life of it's own so that even (at least some of) the Nazis came to believe their own pseudo-mystical bullshit.

So, good meme. Not great, but good enough for now.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 25, 2017 1:48 PM  

You mean the speech where he made fun of college football, and got booed?

He's not one of those guys who unironically criticize "sportsball" fans, is he?

Humorously, a lot of the natsoc's on /pol/ hate him.

They've long thought him controlled opposition. To be fair, they think most everyone is.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd August 25, 2017 1:48 PM  

He ran?

Anonymous DissidentRight August 25, 2017 1:48 PM  

@94 Spencer is smart. He's crazy and incoherent at times, but he is objectively smart.

And he isn't going away, and a lot of good guys, especially younger guys, like him. 


If they like smart they should love Vox. Oh but wait.

Anonymous llsepher August 25, 2017 1:48 PM  

I would like to see a conversation between you and Spencer, however, if Spencer is unwilling to answer for his folly, let the memes flow.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 25, 2017 1:49 PM  

As others have stated, I agree with the theme but the Meme needs work. As for needing them as allies? What do they bring to the table?

Spencer himself is a huge liability because he hasn't found a trap he didn't want to jump straight into. His fame seeking blinds him.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 1:49 PM  

What have you done for the movement? How many times have you put yourself in harm's way for the movement?

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 1:50 PM  

Kessler faced down a mob while Voxie the ex-pat hides behind a computer 3k miles away.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer August 25, 2017 1:50 PM  

Paulie Boy wrote:Spencer has put literally out himself in the line of fire time and again while Voxie the ex-pat hides behind a computer devolving into some pathetic boomer cuck.

That's right he see's the trip wire and bravely trips right over it.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 1:52 PM  

Spencer had exposed himself to real danger time and again while Voxie the ex-pat hides behind a computer. Spencer deadlifts. Also, he doesn't stutter or have a lisp.

Anonymous Patrick August 25, 2017 1:52 PM  

"pasty white"

You consider that an insult? Interesting.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd August 25, 2017 1:53 PM  

The part about monarchy being to the left of fascist ideology is interesting.
I see why they would think that, but unfortunately they're playing by the other team's script there.

Divine Right, absolute monarchy is about the furthest right you can go in, my opinion.

Blogger JM August 25, 2017 1:53 PM  

Vox, most of your memes, like this one, are just too cerebral and not visceral enough. Effective memes (i.e. those that go viral) appeal to emotion first and foremost. Get reptilian!

Anonymous Anchorman August 25, 2017 1:54 PM  

There's a litmus test and it's the 16 points, translated into various languages.

The first point is pretty clear.

If you're on the Left, you're not alt-Right. You're just a Leftist nationalist who hates globalist Leftists.

Blogger Guitar Man August 25, 2017 1:55 PM  

@Paulie Boy

https://www.menofthewest.net/the-man-in-the-arena/

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 25, 2017 1:56 PM  

@116 That conversation already happened. On video. Spencer is absolutely worthy of ridicule, the only question is to what degree ridiculing him is productive for the Alt Right.

Anonymous Anchorman August 25, 2017 1:56 PM  

You consider that an insult? Interesting.

Injun.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 1:57 PM  

Voxie the ex-pat is letting his jealousy show.

Blogger tuberman August 25, 2017 1:58 PM  

I sent this meme out to a couple dozen people, who I figured could understand it, so I loved it.

I read Radix long before coming here, and I found it mixed, yet slightly negative, as too many of Spencer's talking points could have come out of the mouths of Krauthammer or more strange Benny Shapiro. He would say sane things, then go off on almost Lefty narrative stuff. No trust from me even before I came here.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 1:58 PM  

Expect Voxie the ex-pat to go full civic "nationalist" in the next month.

Blogger roughcoat August 25, 2017 1:58 PM  

Paulie Boy wrote:Spencer deadlifts.

Yeah? How much?

Anonymous praetorian August 25, 2017 2:00 PM  

If they like smart they should love Vox. Oh but wait.

C'mon man. We were all libertarians five years ago. Murray Rothbard was smart. Tom Woods is incredibly smart. Smart people have different takes on things and smart people disagree all the time. Things are complicated.

I see no advantage to alienating Spencer's followers. The guy taking shots at Vox in this thread is being a dick, but the guys in C-ville did fight. Maybe C-ville was a disaster. Maybe it will turn out to be a good thing strategically by clarifying things and pushing the alt-right into more hardened technical positions. Maybe it will red pill normies. I dunno. I was wrong about Hail-gate, so I'm not eager to prognosticate.

But, again, I see no advantage in alienating guys who like Spencer.

Blogger Paulie Boy August 25, 2017 2:00 PM  

The Nazis are the real lefitsts! The equivalent of "the democrats are the real racists"!

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 25, 2017 2:01 PM  

praetorian wrote:Socialism doesn't even work in a homogeneous nation.

What would you call the swiss model?


Switzerland is neither homogenous nor a nation

Blogger Beau August 25, 2017 2:02 PM  

Terrible meme. Terrible man.

Anonymous Jimmy james August 25, 2017 2:02 PM  

*tips fedora*
Ahem...dickie spencer is not TRUE right wing, unlike our true allies the BASED JEWS rothbard, Friedman, Mises and Rand.

^how i see this meme

Anonymous praetorian August 25, 2017 2:03 PM  

Switzerland is neither homogenous nor a nation

Go on.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning August 25, 2017 2:08 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:i never paid attention to Spencer to be honest. Was always thinking he is CIA and there to entrap people.

Seconded. So is Kessler. Limited-hangout types.

Alexamenos wrote:If I have to chose one side or the other because of 'spergy quibbling over who is and who isn't really truly "right", then I'm siding with spencer.

You're mistaken. Vox is always right.

Alexamenos wrote:The problem with spencer is that he has a remarkable knack for creating a huge mess everytime he injects himself into something. 

---

Most of the mess seems to be moaning and gnashing from rival factions in the alt-right.


Exactly. Both the sucker punch in the street and the Nazi salutes by his guests at his convention look like they were (or easily could have been) scripted. And that's where #PunchANazi came from- he boosted the moral of the enemy.

VD wrote:But the final straw was when he failed to provide royalties or provide statements for over two years to a friend of mine, and continues to try to hold him to a contract that he himself failed to uphold. And to date, has refused to respond to a request for arbitration as per the contract.

You guys know me. What are the chances that I'll just ignore someone doing something like that to a friend?


Zero. And there it is. If Spencer cannot honor a contract then Spencer is not an honorable man.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 25, 2017 2:10 PM  

Vox, If you really want to do an effective meme in this vein, put a picture of Spencer next to a picture of Marx. The caption doesn't even matter that much.

I don't recommend this, but you should be aware that this is how you would go about delousing the alt-right of socialism.

Blogger Sheila4g August 25, 2017 2:10 PM  

I'm not a member of the Spencer fan club, but neither do I see the utility of this, regardless of whatever personal issues you may have with him. It appears needlessly petty. But just as this is your blog, it's your meme of the day, so you can and will do as you wish. Just strikes me the wrong way.

Anonymous Nick August 25, 2017 2:10 PM  

Good meme, Spencer is a liability not an asset and he's not on the right. His three "accomplishments" in the past year that come to mind are: his idiotic "hail Trump" close to his conference along with the conveniently placed heil Hitler saluting plants right in front of the left's camera's, becoming the literal punchline to the left's most effective meme of the year, and participating in a disastrous event organized by an apparent Obama-supporting operative that has led to more Confederate statue removals and vandalism than if no event had been held (not to mention giving the media ammo to paint the Alt-Right as Nazis).

Spencer appointed himself a "leader" of the Alt-Right, even though he has no apparent leadership qualities. This shadiness with a contract that VD mentioned is just icing on the cake. I hope AmRen and VDare have learned their lesson and won't affiliate with him any longer.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 25, 2017 2:12 PM  

Guilt by association to Jews is how sin works in their religion.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:14 PM  

Nazis are foolish socialists. The same virus infects them as the Communist Left.

Hitler was not* a White Nationalist or Supremacist - he was an Aryan supremacist who wanted to kill at least a third of white people (mongrel Americans included) to entertain his ecotopia.

Hitler has more in common with Paul Erlich and Greenpeace than Adam Smith or Thomas Jefferson or Nietzche.

I say yes to getting rid of the Nazis. They're Progressive Hippie Marxists, just with cool uniforms.

Sure, Rundstedt, Rommel, and Student are cool names; but they weren't Nazis. They were German Army.

Blogger L' Aristokrato August 25, 2017 2:14 PM  

This is dumb and pointless.

Blogger Andrew Taylor August 25, 2017 2:14 PM  

@1 Precisely. The endgame is ultimately suppression of the Global South.

Anonymous Rum Raisin August 25, 2017 2:14 PM  

I am not going to back down on anything I've said, but I'm quite willing to hear your opinions concerning my take on the Fake Right.

The meme was "meh," but the sentiment was correct. They're fake. They're an encumbrance on the Right. They're short-time-preference, zero-strategy losers who are trading victory for cheap thrills.

I'm seeing a lot of weak-minded fools lured in by the rhetorical impact of Nazis and believing they're anything but a millstone around the neck of the Right. They believe Nazis are "Right" because the Marxists in the media, Hollywood, and academia have propagandized it for decades. The only people it serves to have Nazis as part of the Right are the communist Left. In the debate with Johnson, Vox explained why they are not Right - and not one person has argued convincingly why they supposedly are - but dialectic is powerless to overcome years of propaganda.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:16 PM  

@142 Nick

All that Spencer did was take the AltRight URL, and thus mantle himself as the "Leader."

If Spencer's not a government stooge (my money is that he is), he is an arrogant big fish who wants to rule a small pond. At best, he's got a martyr complex. At worst, he's an enemy plant.

Blogger modsquad August 25, 2017 2:17 PM  

Which is being sought here, a logical answer or emotional one?

Logical: no one cares because any meme has a nano-second lifespan in the grand scheme of things.

Emotional: no one cares because any outrage has a nano-second lifespan in the grand scheme of things.

Memes are a 5 second cut of a 40 hour conversation. Move it along, no post mortems.

Blogger ZhukovG August 25, 2017 2:17 PM  

@Paulie Boy: Someday you may learn that real revolutionaries are rarely the poor schlubs dying on the barricades.

As for Spencer, he claims to be Alt-Right. His actions however, harm the Alt-Right. Therefore, not Alt-Right. Wonder if Soros signs his check personally.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar August 25, 2017 2:19 PM  

At this point I am in favor of ditching the Alt-Right moniker altogether and promoting Alt-West instead.

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 25, 2017 2:21 PM  

What exactly is supposed to be the ideological overlap between Spencer and the Alt Right? At best he is incoherent, at worst he is an opponent of nationalism.

The meme is big improvement over the nonsensical Spencer=Nazi=Socialist=Left Wing line of thought. His rejection of nationalism is what separates him from the Alt Right. The Nazis haven't been around for 70 years, the label is just a marginalizing tool used by leftists and Spencer isn't a Nazi, either by admission or belief.

Blogger Johnny August 25, 2017 2:21 PM  

I regard it as a huge tactical error to reject nationalism because it is an unnecessary condition and you will lose supporters over it. Unless you think it is a killer problem (and I don't), be neutral on the subject and don't bring it up.

Anonymous Jimmy james August 25, 2017 2:21 PM  

To expand on my comment above, this meme feels distasteful to me because spencer is part of my tribe, even an advocate for it. I may not agree with hiss tactics but he is part of my tribe, and any attacks on him appear (in my rhetoric oriented hindbrain) to me either as foreign attacks on my tribe or tribal traitors. I lije traitors less than advocates with poor tactics. Like you point out, vox, your skin color is your uniform and tribal allegiance is the future of politics, for better or worse (likely worse).

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:22 PM  

@150 ZhokovG

"Wonder if Soros signs his check personally."

I'd bet actual metal money on it.

@139 Deplorable

Like you, I never paid much attention to Spencer. What little I saw of his writing or his conversations, they seemed too...scripted, is the best word.

I listened to an interview he did with someone and all he wanted to do was talk about the JOOOOZ. The other guy was saying interesting stuff, and tried to deflect it.

And yeah, if Spencer doesn't honor contracts/agreements, then he isn't honorable. We all understand money may run out or something, but arrangements can always be made. If Spencer tried to weasel out, then he's a weaselly man.

But seriously guys, what about Zionism and the JOOOOZ and capitalism? Are they all superbad? I mean, if we ally with the Muslimz then the JOOOZ will be hurted and thatz cool.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 25, 2017 2:23 PM  

I loved the meme, and the exchange with Kessler is absolutely priceless.

Blogger ZhukovG August 25, 2017 2:24 PM  

@Cluebat Vanexodar: I am not crazy about the idea of ditching the Alt-Right brand. It would be like apologizing to an SJW.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable August 25, 2017 2:24 PM  

In fact, this has been by far the best week of memes yet.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:25 PM  

@153 Johnny

Rejecting an internationalist who likes socialism (Spencer) is not a rejection of Nationalism.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 25, 2017 2:25 PM  

@140 Better meme idea: Le Happy Merchant as a puppeteer. On the left hand strings have the CNN and Antifa logos, and a picture of Deray or something recognizable as BLM. On the right have the Fox News logo and Richard Spencer.
In between the two sides is the statue of Robert E. Lee.

The only caption is the word "Charlottesville."

I will do this when I get around to it but my graphic artistry skills suck and I'm pretty slow at meme making. Certainly would not object if someone wanted to do this first.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:27 PM  

I like the memes. Spencer's that weird anime nerd who joins your gang...then calls it his gang and tries to get everybody else into fights. Then runs away.

He's a yutz.

Blogger Cubby8126 August 25, 2017 2:28 PM  

Da comrad

Anonymous fop August 25, 2017 2:29 PM  

https://kek.gg/i/5SxmN5.png

Blogger Gary Eden August 25, 2017 2:30 PM  

How is that quote socialist? What does he mean by 'step beyond nationalism'? Is Spensor actually supporting globalism? Because Omni-nationalism of the 16 points is also a step beyond nationalism. (hence 'omni')

Maybe he is, but that quote doesn't say so. If he does support globalism I'd expect a jucier quote than this.

Blogger ZhukovG August 25, 2017 2:32 PM  

@Demonic Professor El: The obsession with Jews and the JQ is IMO, a poison pill inserted into the Alt-Right by our enemies to, if not kill the movement, at least stunt its growth. It is akin to handing a deadly enemy a case of their favorite caliber of ammunition.

Our enemy is the Globalist Left, whether Jew or Gentile. No Jew is automatically my enemy unless he is a Globalist.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 25, 2017 2:35 PM  

Some of you seem to believe that you can push forward the Alt-Right without being the villain. You are going to be labelled a Nazi, a racist, a white nationalist, and anything else they can come up with. That will include many, or even most of those on the so-called right.

Spencer doesn't have the ability to change any of that.

Anyone talking about tarnishing the Alt-Right "brand" doesn't grasp what is coming.

No one is going to like you. Your 'friends' will disavow you and go on at length how you aren't really one of them.

Victory, if it comes, will see people who were spewing hate towards you six months previously, suddenly on your side and talking as much credit as they can for what you did.

This isn't going to be some book of the month discussion group. It will come to blood and you will need street fighters, thugs, and goons. The people who fight will not be virtuous honorable men fresh from their 'Rights Of Man' debate club.

If the Alt-Right isn't despised and held in contempt by the media and much of the public it isn't doing anything effective.

You cannot change the status quo without being hated.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener August 25, 2017 2:35 PM  

@165 Fully half of the influential globalists we're opposing are Jews. That's not something insignificant that can or should be overlooked, nor does recognizing this automatically imply that all or most Jews are guilty.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:36 PM  

@165 ZhukovG

Agreed completely. IF there's any JQ it's "are they on our team?" Basically, the same for any person really.

Otherwise, yes - the JQ is a black pill meant to associate the New Right/Alt-West with Hitler to its logical, rhetorical conclusion.

Cheers mate.

Blogger NO GOOGLES August 25, 2017 2:39 PM  

@166
And? It's still mind-numbingly stupid to help your enemies out, which is exactly what Spencer has done time and time again.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 25, 2017 2:39 PM  

I like it. Getting rid of the Alt-Retards is taking out the trash.

In any fringe movement, there are bound to be retards popping up with ludicrous ideas. Speaking as a traditional Catholic, we have to deal all the time with folks who try electing their own popes, or declaring everyone else who doesn't think exactly the way they do about certain matters to be heretics, and so on.

Rejecting the Alt-Retard -- which I take to be Neo-Nazis, the KKK, neopagans who are only able to see the Judeo-Christ perversion of Christianity, and anyone else on the Fake Right who advocates for socialism or the EU -- is the right thing to do.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 25, 2017 2:40 PM  

A safe rule of thumb, based upon my experience as a traditional Catholic, is that if someone is unreasonable, they should be rejected.

Anonymous VFM #6306 August 25, 2017 2:41 PM  

As rhetoric advancing the truth, excellent. Meme? It might win in an off-week, but I doubt it would ever make it to the playoffs.

I do think @54 Acapulco Gold is getting closer to concept. With a little more work, we'll have it.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:41 PM  

@166 Sharrukin

The idea is to oust the Socialists.

Personally, I understand we're labeled Nazis for merely disagreeing on marginal tax rates. I get it. To the Communists, anyone who opposes Communism is a "fascist" or a "nazi." That's just how they roll.

But the idea is that we don't get either Buckley-ed or lose Nationalist allies based on the Hitler-ties.

I think we should all remember that the Spencer/National Socialist faction would abandon us in a minute if they could.

OR: We don't want Spencer and that ilk destroying our ranks. It's not optics to cave in to the SJW Left.

Anonymous krymneth August 25, 2017 2:41 PM  

"The Democrats are the real racists" is a losing line of rhetoric even if it is true. "Nazis are actually left wing" is not rhetoric, as it isn't intended to convince "normies"; it's actually a dialectal question about who your allies really are, which is an important one. Thus dialectal rules apply and pointing out that it is failing rhetoric is irrelevant. If Spencer really is a Nazi, and really is a Socialist, then he really is not of the Right on a deep and fundamental level, and in particular, should the Alt-Right as a whole continue to grow in strength, he would be someone you could count on turning sides eventually.

If he is really of the right and is therefore basically just playacting at being a Nazi, it is still a legitimate dialectal debate as to whether that is a valid strategy or one so stupid that it isn't worth the effort to defend him.

Regardless, just as rhetoric isn't dialectic, dialectic isn't rhetoric, and the question of whether he's truly an ally is not a rhetorical one. This dismissing it on rhetorical grounds is a category error.

Blogger Gary Eden August 25, 2017 2:42 PM  

To me this just looks like anti-NAZI virtue signaling with a dose of personal vendetta. Its a distraction.

I've never read Spensor, I could care less about him. I see no reason to attack anyone who is supporting Trump and the white race. Not with us in the early stages of genocide.

I agree the NAZI symbolism in real life is counter productive. But so is going out of our way to oppose it.

A much more productive use our of time is to advance more effective rhetoric such as memes, flags, and uniforms based around the crusader cross.

Or in hitting back, like taking full advantage of the internet wide censorship of Andrew Anglin, which you ignored on the blog for some time while beating this dead horse. It was an overreach of strategic advantage to us.

Blogger beerme August 25, 2017 2:43 PM  

National socialists get helicopter rides when there aren't enough international socialists to fill out the chopper. All socialists are creatures of the left.

Anonymous krymneth August 25, 2017 2:45 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:No one is going to like you. Your 'friends' will disavow you and go on at length how you aren't really one of them.

That's not how it will work. You're painting a picture of a world in which every "Alt-Rightist", if not every Rightist, is totally isolated and will be hated by everyone around them. But if that is the case, there's no victory, and indeed, not even really an Alt-Right. The entire point of Alt-Rightness is that actually there's a good solid group of people out there not being politically served by any other ideology. Being Alt-Right may cost you in the future, but then, being Left is going to cost a lot of people in the future too. Your picture is too dire; if it were that dire there would be no point and Enjoy the Decline would be the only option. (I don't think it is.)

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros August 25, 2017 2:45 PM  

@Cail
'He's not one of those guys who unironically criticize "sportsball" fans, is he?'

Yes. As I recall, he criticized white students and alums for idolizing black players who they would never risk inviting to their house.

Anonymous BBGKB August 25, 2017 2:46 PM  

I agree the NAZI symbolism in real life is counter productive. But so is going out of our way to oppose it

Leftists freak out over WHITE LIVES MATTER more than swastikas because they know it's not a leftist wearing one & there has never been a jew caught on video spraying it on their house/temple.

OT:
Charles Barkley now white supremacist
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/charles-barkley-labeled-a-white-supremacist-for-telling-black-people-to-stop-killing-each-other_08252017

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 25, 2017 2:47 PM  

Paulie Boy wrote:What have you done for the movement? How many times have you put yourself in harm's way for the movement?
Getting your ass handed to you is not victory. It's not effective. It's not even helpful.

Anonymous Sharrukin August 25, 2017 2:47 PM  

173. Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:41 PM

@166 Sharrukin

The idea is to oust the Socialists.

Why?

There are many more white socialists than there are white libertarians.

Do we NOT want white leftists and moderates on our side?

Even if we disagree with their economics, if they are willing to fight why the hell would you turn them away?

Is libertarianism the core Alt-Right principle?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 25, 2017 2:48 PM  

Okay, okay, you got me.

Try this one on for size, Vox:

Richard Spencer and Co.

True Komrades of the LARPor Party.

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 25, 2017 2:51 PM  

@174 It is dialectic if you are debating whether the historical Nazis were of the left or right. If you are describing someone in 2017 as a Nazi, it is either a rhetorical attempt to discredit or nonsensical.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil August 25, 2017 2:53 PM  

Ironic that he should welch on a contract. Nazis are the REAL shylocks.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 2:55 PM  

@181 Sharrukin

Socialist is a loaded term - some are young and want a good paycheck. Means to an end. Rhetoric and dialectic solves that.

And the "white" part? Nationalism respects the rights of peoples to have nations. Korea for Koreans. Japan for Japanese. Britain for Britons.

Since socialism is literally globalism, they reject nationalism. Whatever the skin color, *we don't get to decide where we live. The world becomes Somalia.

Blogger Guitar Man August 25, 2017 2:57 PM  

Judging by the comments from some of the Alt-Tards, it appears that the meme is effective.

Anonymous VFM #6306 August 25, 2017 2:59 PM  

How 'bout this? ...Or maybe it should have an Eu Flag in there too?

Anonymous Gurpgork August 25, 2017 3:00 PM  

Keep calling them out.
They don't know what they are and are useless to counterproductive as a result.
Once they finally figure it out they will turn against the alt right. (Already seen a few threads like this on the chans)

Blogger August August 25, 2017 3:01 PM  

I do think there's more meme magic in other things- like taking the photos of women being beaten down by Antifa, and suggesting they should have bailed out a racist. Maybe put up Cantwell's mugshot (although he does look a little pathetic in it).

Come to think of it, the more sophisticated way of cutting off the socialists is to promote the non-socialists.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 25, 2017 3:01 PM  

Sharukin wrote:If I have to chose between survival and the free market, I will choose survival.

Socialism isn't something I support but it is a secondary consideration given what the leftists want to do to us.

You don't have to agree with everything an ally does to keep them as allies.


I'm not annoyed at the socialism Spencer and his ilk. I'm tired of the uniform wearing, flag waving Hit-Larping.

If they weren't doing that crap it is unlikely this rhetorical meme would ever have been aimed at them.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 25, 2017 3:02 PM  

"Even if we disagree with their economics, if they are willing to fight why the hell would you turn them away?"

You may not notice the distinction, but I don't consider sitting on the floor, placing a shotgun in your mouth and pulling the trigger right as I lean over you to see what's going on to be fighting.

Spencer and Co. are repeatedly counterproductive.

Repeatedly.

In addition, I really don't think they've hauled anywhere near enough weight to even counterbalance it, let alone exceed it.

When you rhetorically blow your own head off for the Nth time, don't expect me to be standing in your line of fire backing you up anymore. If they learned, it would be one thing, but they aren't, so you 'tards concern trolling about "punching right" and "petty squabble" are pretty clearly just being 'tards. There's no redeemable weapon being wielded by that left hand, even if it weren't Satan's left hand grafted finger-first onto the ankle of the right in the first place.

Cut that sucker off before it gives yet another yank down. There's no winning the rhetorical game from that legacy, so cut that sucker off.

Anonymous VFM #6306 August 25, 2017 3:03 PM  

That's weird. Should have been this link:

https://i.imgflip.com/1uq8o6.jpg

Anonymous Sharrukin August 25, 2017 3:03 PM  

185. Demonic Professor El

Since socialism is literally globalism, they reject nationalism.

National Socialists aren't for nationalism?

The NSDAP wasn't a German nationalist party?

They weren't for keeping Germany for Germans?

Blogger Freddy August 25, 2017 3:04 PM  

Bingo

Anonymous Cantostop August 25, 2017 3:05 PM  

The reason memes appeal is because they're funny, first and foremost, and there is broad, layered appeal. Like Toy Story.

I think let him do what he wants, as is noted the tide of history will wash over everyone, and they serve a useful purpose when it comes to race realism. Most people are not looking at policy details, they're looking at the invasion around them and in a state of subdued anxiety. They are waking people up to race, not the socialism/globalism. People see Spencer and co and the optics are, they're Real Americans, so am I. For the first time someone is fighting for me.

Demographics, race realism. IMO EVERYTHING comes from waking people up to that.

Blogger Dos Voltz August 25, 2017 3:05 PM  

@181

I am pro-white, but not at all for whites who want socialism and communism. They slaughtered 30 million of us white Christians in the 20th century alone, all while chasing their utopian pipe dreams.

Here's a meme: A picture of Spencer on the left and (((Krugman))) on the right. Upper text says "These fags agree"

and bottom text "Socialism is the best"

Blogger tz August 25, 2017 3:05 PM  

@170 - I think that frames it properly, other than you would want to split it between those who keep their heresies private and those who want it to take over.

OT - Consumerist exposes NYT Best Seller fraud

Meanwhile, in Chaplin's Great Dictator Hitler was a globalist

Blogger Solaire Of Astora August 25, 2017 3:06 PM  

I'm just a minor spectator but I follow your content because you're honest and assiduous. You might not be a leader but you are a role model. I've learned more from reading your blog posts and seeing how you handle yourself than a lifetime of watching all pretenders out there. Spencer is neither a good leader nor a person to be emulated. And the more I see from that Kessler the more visceral hatred I have for it. Anything that diminishes those creatures is good in my book. The only issue I have with your memes is they tend to lack the ham factor. The most successful memes have a bit of ham in them, like Pepe and Wojak. It's as if the goofiness brings down your defenses. But I'm no expert so whatever.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 25, 2017 3:06 PM  

@190 Patrick Kelly

For sure on the LARPing. They'd be fine as a fringe movement. "Oh that's a good point. Sure." "Response." "Okay, that's a little weird. The Jews didn't invent the pizza to kill Italians through heart disease."

Seriously though, it would be okay if they went "we're nazis!" instead of waving their arms and yelling out to CNN "WE ARE THE REAL ALT-RIGHT!!! YEP ALT-RIGHT OVER HERE! NATIONALISM IS HITLER WOOOOOO!!"

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 25, 2017 3:09 PM  

Does this tweet from Spencer sound like he is Alt Right? Or neocon multiculturalist?

"My dream is a Northern hemispheric empire, with an autarkic economy, natural conservation, and the projection of power on a global scale."

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