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Monday, September 04, 2017

Andrew Torba's statement on Gab censorship

Personally, I think there is no reason to hesitate to ban anyone from any site for any reason the site owner deems desirable. But I understand that Gab has publicly professed a commitment to free speech and therefore has to deal with the expectations that they have created for themselves.
We believe the post in question was indeed obscene. It should have been marked #NSFW and it was not, therefore it is in violation of our Community Guidelines.

This is not the first time we have enforced our guidelines. Gab has banned users for spamming, making death threats to the President, posting revenge porn, and doxing among others. We’ve been transparent and incredibly fair about this on many occasions.

We believe this effort was coordinated and planned. We knew this day would come and now we have entered a crossroads with a very binary decision: remove one post or lose our domain and thus the entire website.

Our choice was very clear to me. The post needs to come down. If it does not, we lose our domain. To my knowledge there are no pro-free speech domain registrars and that is a massive problem. Our only other option now would be to play a cat and mouse game by transferring our domain to another registrar. Others who have attempted to play this game have failed and even had their domain seized completely from under them. We will not play these games. We have little choice, for now.

The free and open internet as we know it is under attack. It is centralized and controlled by no more than a handful of companies who provide these services:
  • Hosting
  • DDoS protection
  • Payment Processing
  • Domain Registrars
  • Mobile device hardware and software distribution
Without any of these things an individual website can not possibly compete and operate at scale. If left unchecked, these centralized platforms will continue their dominance and control the means of all information, personal data, and communication on the internet.
Perhaps it would help if you understand that I don't believe that free speech exists anymore than equality does.

Labels: ,

180 Comments:

Blogger tuberman September 04, 2017 7:31 PM  

I.Don't. Care. I'll stick with Gab, still great!

Blogger Dirtnapninja September 04, 2017 7:34 PM  

Interesting. I'm seeing the outlines of a strategy...corporations using the banner of social justice to crush young upstart rivals.

Still...Anything But Twitter.

We dont live in a free country.

Blogger Lovekraft September 04, 2017 7:44 PM  

This will blow over in a matter of days and it does prove gab is vibrant, free expression is still valued etc.

What I've determined is that, in order to have clarity, we need to redefine NSFW, because apart from nudity and gore, anything else is a slippery slope. What is offensive to one, speaks truth to power to another.

And as for Torba's rights, I agree completely, but hope these guidelines get clarified. I can only imagine how many of my comments would receive scrutiny should the globalists have their way.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 04, 2017 7:45 PM  

Someone went to a lot of trouble to specifically attack in that manner. Well, at least @a will have a lot to talk about on Tucker tomorrow.

The weird bit is that it wasn't anywhere close to the worst thing Anglin has gotten trending. If it's shown, by Fox, on Tucker tomorrow, then we've got a clear answer to the play. Including someone at Fox being in on the hit.

Going to be lots of lawyers involved. And still more Silicon Valley illegal collusion.

Blogger Johnny September 04, 2017 7:47 PM  

What I would hope for in all this stuff is in effect, honest censorship. At the least a willingness to declare why this or that was censored, and the true reason, not some BS.

Allowing that free speech comes by degrees, it has never been completely free, but it seems size of our ration of it is going down.

Anonymous Just another commenter September 04, 2017 7:50 PM  

@3 - the centurion shows up, demanding that NSFW identify himself.
A lone man stands. "I am NSFW!"
Another stands. "No! I am NSFW!"
The rest stand and chant "I am NSFW!"

And the mask slips a little bit further.

BTW - I look forward to the Vox v Anglin debate.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 04, 2017 7:54 PM  

Alt retard internet trainwreck is one of the best forms of internet trainwreck.

Anonymous johnc September 04, 2017 7:56 PM  

This is part of the registar's ToS:

Instra Corporation prohibits unlawful use of a registered domain name or product/service we supply, in a manner that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, or hateful against another party. This includes, but is not limited to, hate speech, discrimination or harassment on the basis of gender, religion, sexuality or race. Instra Corporation reserves the right to suspend or delete any product or service that, after reasonable investigation, is deemed to be in breach of this clause.

In the near future a whole lot of websites and domain names will be taken offline on the basis of "hate speech".

As Torba notes, the Left completely owns the Internet infrastructure.

Blogger Sam Spade September 04, 2017 7:59 PM  

if Vox is right about free speech,I feel bad for Dr. Peterson impossible quest.

Blogger Phillip George September 04, 2017 8:01 PM  

It's this simple. There has always been common law against death threats, humiliation, witchcraft, blasphemy etc. There has always been common law against 'free speech' involving fraud, deception, lying with criminal intent.

Sharia's 'blasphemy law' invasion is simply filling the ignorance void created by the new atheists moral relativists, pig ignorant generations.

There isn't anything vaguely new here.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 04, 2017 8:03 PM  

@9 Sam Spade

American "Free Speech" was tied with Religion: it's a truce among Christians to prevent everyone from starting more wars. Which is still a problem, somehow.

Issue is that you can't have a "commons" without "common ground". Any flavor of Leftist makes it impossible. Which is why the rise of Leftism went in-kind with the removal of heresy laws. Who knew becoming "woke" was to realize the biggest mistake Western Christians have made is to stop burning witches?

Anonymous Rfvujm September 04, 2017 8:04 PM  

On /pol/ people are noticing that it hasn't been long since Gab's million dollar funding round, and now the references to Gab being all about free speech are disappearing from their site. They're blaming the investors, but I guess word hasn't gotten around there that the domain registrars have Gab's hands tied.

Blogger Phillip George September 04, 2017 8:07 PM  

Throw into the mix trade secrets, breech of contract, privacy agreements, non disclosure contracts and covenants, malicious gossip, plain swearing..

Try going up to any policeman anywhere in the world and calling them a 'f....... p...." because you believe in free speech.

It's a joke. Free speech is and always has been the boundary condition principle in common law.

Anonymous Raker Tooth September 04, 2017 8:11 PM  

I'm not a tech guy; but I'm not surprised. I mean, you rent your name one place, often get hosting on a sever another place, and you have to show up on somebody's search engine. Looks like multiple vulnerabilities.
And this is C-ville, the next move.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 04, 2017 8:12 PM  

Free minds exit within our heads. Free speech exists within our own walls. Once we involve others, nothing is free (of consequences.)

Blogger Dos Voltz September 04, 2017 8:14 PM  

I saw this issue come up earlier today and I found it most disturbing. I was awaiting more news and clarification. Thanks, Vox, for providing this.

And I was unaware, as johnc has noted above, that the left owns the internet infrastructure. All of it?

So still troubled by this. Indeed it seems that GAB really could not genuinely provide nor ensure what they were selling, a free-speech platform. Their motto should have been "You can speak nearly freely here, until our leftist overlords threaten to shut us down - so have it at, and we'll let ya know when you've gone too far."

ISIS beheadings and all kinds of Islamic terror on the web, dismembered dogs and children crushed under Mohammed's wheels, yet a non-gory woman tumbling on the hood of a car is too much?

I cannot see how this one differs from the Twitter purges.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 04, 2017 8:21 PM  

@3 Lovekraft

After the furor blows over, there could be some small upgrades to the TOS to make a few things more clear. Torba clearly is having to deal with lawyers involved, so as much as there is Optics issues, there's also legal ones as well.

The Anglin pic, while not on the first-glance anything that bad, is a picture of a Woman dying, so that should be under the NSFW tag. That's a trivial issue and it wouldn't have mattered until someone reported it. And the technical aspects are what is interesting. I'm suspicious of the nature of this hit. How Tucker goes will really dictate a lot. (Actually, more for Tucker's reputation than for Gab's.) It'll be interesting to see what happens. The fact that the picture was "nice" enough that it can be aired on Cable is important.

Further, this is a marathon & not a sprint. Gab needs to get to a specific stage so it's free from any by trivial Silicon Valley influence. It'll be a bit, so there's going to be hits along the way. Torba permabanned one of the pedophile guys the other day, this is less of an issue.

Blogger tuberman September 04, 2017 8:29 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 04, 2017 8:30 PM  

@16 Dos Voltz

Easy. Don't be stupid & troll about it. It's much of the reason the Alt-Reichtards are so annoying. There's no "purity" issue here. Gab exists within a playing field and someone pulled a dirty trick. That's the way this stuff goes. The Alt-Reichtards got to play the victim for a bit and we can clearly see there is a lot of shills (paid or otherwise) among their ranks.

Blogger CM September 04, 2017 8:33 PM  

So... How does this work when kiddie porn sites manage to stay up?

Blogger Phelps September 04, 2017 8:34 PM  

I think that gab has a bigger problem, and that is that it raised money for investment (not donation) based on being a free-speech bastion. For this to come so quickly after the fundraising raises real bait-and-switch type fraud issues.

Blogger Dos Voltz September 04, 2017 8:34 PM  

But the picture in question was not even the car and incident from Charlottesville. That car was a dark gray color, from top to bottom.

The car in the GAB post looks like it's silver with a black vinyl top. Two-tone. So we can't even say for sure that this was a lethal blow, or just someone tumbling over the hood. I don't know where the pic is from.

Anyone else can say for sure that the GAB pic featured a lethal blow?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 04, 2017 8:35 PM  

The left does not own the internet infrastructure.
They do control big chunks of it. For now.

The Alt-Reichtards got to play the victim for a bit and we can clearly see there is a lot of shills (paid or otherwise) among their ranks.

Hasn't that been obvious for nearly a year?

Blogger Lazarus September 04, 2017 8:36 PM  

Anglin is FBI

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 04, 2017 8:38 PM  

@20 CM
So... How does this work when kiddie porn sites manage to stay up?

Surely this is purely a rhetorical question.

Blogger tuberman September 04, 2017 8:39 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:@16 Dos Voltz

Easy. Don't be stupid & troll about it. It's much of the reason the Alt-Reichtards are so annoying. There's no "purity" issue here. Gab exists within a playing field and someone pulled a dirty trick. That's the way this stuff goes. The Alt-Reichtards got to play the victim for a bit and we can clearly see there is a lot of shills (paid or otherwise) among their ranks.


As usual, your perspective is excellent. I'm interested in Tucker's direction too, as I'm thinking he may will be just another full on Globalist, pretending otherwise. He was part of the "Gang of Eight Amnesty" promotion for Fox before. Is he still a waiting shill?

Anonymous Deplorable me September 04, 2017 8:39 PM  

Don't have much info yet, but I immediately thought of the Frog and Scorpion -- this is why we can't have nice things.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore September 04, 2017 8:40 PM  

We're in a culture war. Our enemies are making themselves known. For some strange reason though, I am highly optimistic and motivated. Cannot explain this feeling that I have.

Blogger Chris Mallory September 04, 2017 8:44 PM  

Phillip George wrote:Try going up to any policeman anywhere in the world and calling them a 'f....... p...." because you believe in free speech.

I do regularly tell cops that they are wastes of tax money.

I did tell 3 deputies that I was happy to see the sheriff was running a program to provide jobs to the mentally retarded.
"Did you call us retarded?" "Are you working for the sheriff?" Blank stare........blank stare......feeble glimmer
"Well you stay right here and tell that to the sheriff when I go get him." "Ok, I have no problem thanking the sheriff for hiring you with your mental deficiencies." "Well, why you in the court house?" "Jury summons" "We will tell the judge you think cops are retarded." "Fine with me, I will tell the judge the same thing if he asks." Blank stare.....blank stare.......blank stare...."Well go on" "So you aren't detaining me for the sheriff?" "Go on"

Was a fun morning that day. Made having to report for jury duty worth it.

Cops are like dogs, don't show fear and they won't know how to handle it.

Blogger Orville September 04, 2017 8:48 PM  

@28 Ditto, they went out from us, for they were not of us. Fucking NAZI bastards. They aren't of the right, but they are infested with federales.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 04, 2017 8:49 PM  

@28 Al From Bay Shore

When your enemy can hide in the crowd, you either have to take out the crowd or let them go. When they're out in the open, you know where they are. But, and this is probably what you're sensing, they're just not that scary or competent. Devious, yes, but they're not some set of geniuses.

There is a small team that can manage a PsyOps, but we're at the limits for how much they can do without exposing themselves. Plus, well, Trump won and he's at the reins of the US Government, and a lot of the Power Elites ain't happy with the Globalists. Congress is still a mess because its bought by the Globalists, but that'll get fixed in time.

Other part is that, yes, they can Unperson a small group, but they've moved too early. There is now a market for separate Internet services. Time matters; Globalists are cresting off their high-peak in Power. But they're already on the downslide.

@23 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

I've not had much interaction with them. The time I did? I'm still confused about the insults they hurled at me. Not insulted; confused.

Anonymous Rum Raisin September 04, 2017 8:51 PM  

Not the first time this has happened. Someone at Gab tries something unpopular or makes a mistake, and instead of waiting to hear the full story, people lose their shit, and assume the worst like a bunch of shriveled-amygdala snowflakes. These are not people you can trust when the shtf.

It's understandable that some gabbers are wary and on edge given the way things are heating up, but ye cats some people aren't cut out for war. You don't start shooting at one of your generals just because he makes a mistake. Good to smoke these losers out now before things get really hot.

Blogger James Dixon September 04, 2017 8:52 PM  

> I am highly optimistic and motivated. Cannot explain this feeling that I have.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

Knowing what must come is liberating.

Blogger YIH September 04, 2017 8:55 PM  

It seems that Andrew Anglin (and others) forgot about the problems 8chan had.
In January 2015, the site changed its domain 8chan.co to 8ch.net after multiple people filed reports complaining to 8chan’s registrar that the message board hosted child pornography.
Now the one and only rule on 8chan was "Do not post, request, or link to any content illegal in the United States of America. Do not create boards with the sole purpose of posting or spreading such content."
8chan got much much closer to the razor's edge of legality (and even crossed it a few times) than Anglin or Stormfront ever did.

Blogger Elder Son September 04, 2017 8:57 PM  

Perhaps it would help if you understand that I don't believe that free speech exists anymore than equality does.

The horror. The horror.

One side or the other will win in the free-speech equation. It inevitably leads to war. Then wash, rinse, and repeat, depending on who wins.

Blogger M Cephas September 04, 2017 8:59 PM  

I don't think what the Founders meant by "free speech" included the obscene to begin with.

Blogger DonReynolds September 04, 2017 9:03 PM  

The question is not whether we have the right to Free Speech. WE know we do. The Constitution says we do. That is how we know we live in a Free Country and a Free Society. The Supreme Court has specifically said that political speech is certainly Free Speech, especially when it is not popular speech, because popular speech needs no protection.

The relevant question is not whether the government can suppress Free Speech, but whether anyone else can. As a practical matter, we already know that non-government actors CAN and DO suppress Free Speech and have every year, even before the Constitution was written.

Churches have the Freedom of Religion for themselves, guaranteed by the Constitution, but that does not mean that the Church itself is a Free Speech zone or that heretics or atheists are protected while speaking in a church.

No matter whether the college/university is church affiliated, or non-affiliated, or operated by the government....they ALL have limitations on Free Speech...yes, even in the classroom. Even when the professors enjoy Academic Freedom, however you care to define it, that does not mean that students have the right of Free Speech in the classroom or elsewhere on campus. In today's climate especially, safety and order are considered to be of vital importance in education and the courts have supported this view consistently.

The Media treasures it's own Free Speech rights, but that does not mean that the Media is a forum for anyone and everyone wanting to exercise their Free Speech rights. It does not matter if the Media is print media (newspapers, book publishers, advertisers) or whether the Media is broadcast (radio, television, internet), they ALL exercise rather close control over what they are willing to include and what they specifically exclude. Free Speech may be permitted, but exactly what speech is permitted is subject to permission....and that includes community comments, news items, and philosophers. The Media has never pretended to be a community forum nor is it available for all manner of Free Speech.

Vox is correct. There is no Free Speech in absolute terms, other than the Constitutional guarantee that the government will not be the one to suppress Free Speech. Even this is not an absolute. The government is not reluctant or hesitant to stop the Free Speech of terrorists (foreign and domestic), anarchists, criminals, subversives, whistleblowers, leakers, government employees, and even active duty military service personnel.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 04, 2017 9:04 PM  

And I was unaware, as johnc has noted above, that the left owns the internet infrastructure. All of it?

Most of the people running infrastructure are non-political or lean left/libertarian. Normally, they're happy to turn a blind eye to what's being done with their services, only looking when a legal order like a DMCA takedown arrives in the mail.

In this case, they're sitting there minding their own business when some SJWs (perhaps ones in their own company) say, "Because you're providing a service to a certain hate speech site, you're about to get slammed by hit pieces from all the mainstream media calling you Nazis, and our network of hackers is going to DDOS your systems." The company says, "Wait, we're going to deal with all that for a domain registration that's making us $5/year? Screw that. Dump the account."

So where the Left doesn't have political control, it's using economic blackmail to get the job done, and so far none of the infrastructure companies has decided to be the one to set itself apart from the others with an absolutist stand on freedom of content. Dreamhost boasted that it would, but that was in July, and that lasted about 24 hours when they were challenged. And lurking behind them all is ICANN, which pretty much has veto power over all of them.

There's always Fidonet.

Blogger Michael Maier September 04, 2017 9:04 PM  

CM wrote:So... How does this work when kiddie porn sites manage to stay up?

No F'in joke, man...

Blogger Al From Bay Shore September 04, 2017 9:06 PM  

I love watching this drama unfold. The SJWs abusing their institutional power to quash dissent seems akin to a homeowner stepping on roaches while failing to realize and accept the fact of an infestation.

I'm thinking of something I heard Joe Girardi say: "It's a different guy every night. Jeter hits a walk-off. Giambi gets a double. Mariano gets the final out on a full count with the bases loaded." Dudes like James Damore, Milo, Jordan Peterson, and Mr. Beale are getting putting the ball in play and scoring runs. The SJWs see this and they crap their diapers. What's worse is their fear of those who sit on the bench. The SJWs ain't got no bench. Our bench is STRONG!

Blogger VD September 04, 2017 9:10 PM  

So still troubled by this. Indeed it seems that GAB really could not genuinely provide nor ensure what they were selling, a free-speech platform. Their motto should have been "You can speak nearly freely here, until our leftist overlords threaten to shut us down - so have it at, and we'll let ya know when you've gone too far."

Don't be a moron. That was always the context. The whole point of an ideal is that it is something to pursue, not something that can be guaranteed.

Anonymous Panzer Man September 04, 2017 9:11 PM  

According to something I'm reading right now, the .bit extension is immune to censorship, but requires a plugin (though it works in ordinary browsers, unlike the Dark Web).

The article also expressed a hope that Brave would be updated to natively support Namecoin (.bit) addresses.

Just thought that might be worth putting out there for people better at computer stuff than I am.

Blogger Kristophr September 04, 2017 9:15 PM  

It may be time to fork DNS services.

There is nothing stopping anyone, other than time and expense ( and teaching the illiterate to add a DNS IP to their network ), from setting up a private DNS server.

If the private DNS becomes popular enough, other DNS servers may start to send lookups to it, or maybe not.

Blogger Kristophr September 04, 2017 9:16 PM  

Panzerman: You can use .bit addresses if you add Namecoin's DNS to your network manually.

Blogger Dos Voltz September 04, 2017 9:17 PM  

@38 Cail

Thanks for that, makes sense. It's been a disheartening episode, but I get a clearer picture now. It's the lay of the land, and we're simply outgunned. So biding time.

I am, of course, sticking with GAB. It's the only thing close to being what is sorely needed in our culture, especially in the realm of social media. I am hoping one day the little dinghy will become a juggernaut.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 04, 2017 9:20 PM  

Alt retard internet trainwreck is one of the best forms of internet trainwreck.

The trainwreck is Ralph Fiennes.

Blogger Lovekraft September 04, 2017 9:20 PM  

@ 13 Philip George: "Free speech is and always has been the boundary condition principle in common law."

Wonder if you could elaborate on this.

Also, to Cail Corvishev: excellent comment.

Blogger Johnny September 04, 2017 9:21 PM  

Phillip George wrote:It's this simple. There has always been common law against death threats, humiliation, witchcraft, blasphemy etc. There has always been common law against 'free speech' involving fraud, deception, lying with criminal intent.

Sharia's 'blasphemy law' invasion is simply filling the ignorance void created by the new atheists moral relativists, pig ignorant generations.

There isn't anything vaguely new here.



Not that new, yes, but not even close to common law. Common law evolved in Britain in the last few hundred years and it is the exception in law, not the rule. It contains these odd institutions: trial by peers, due process, grand jury stuff, and so on.

If you want to compare Sharia law with something, it compares best with tribalism. In tribes where there is no strong leader disputes are settled between individuals spontaneously, and the implied or direct use of forces was often acceptable. Under this system an outcome judged unacceptable will turn into mob violence, or it may be the mob itself that executes vigilante justice. No due process, no rules, and anybody who is tough enough can be both judge and jury.

The major difference between Islam and tribalism is that Islam has a written code. But that code explicitly empowers individuals to act as both judge and jury against any malefactor. It is the tribal system with a written code. No due process and anybody can be judge and jury without breaking the rules.

The punishment for adultery is death. And as it takes four women to equal the testimony of one man, any women who gets raped anywhere but in a public square is more or less automatically guilty of adultery. Plus any women who is not Islamic is free to be had as the man chooses. No rule against ISIS running its own slave market.

Curiously the followers if Islam do not always stay rigidly with scripture. In Iran they hang homos from cranes, whereas scripture calls for either pitching them off buildings or stoning them to death. ISIS has combined the two by pitching them off buildings with a pile of randomly stacked concrete blocks for a landing pad.

And so it goes, seventh century warlord justice implemented by tribal methods.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore September 04, 2017 9:21 PM  

@41 "Upvote".

Anonymous Avalanche September 04, 2017 9:27 PM  

@16 "You can speak nearly freely here, until our leftist overlords threaten to shut us down - so have it at, and we'll let ya know when you've gone too far."

Did you REALLY need that spelled out for you? Are you THAT ignorant of business? (Of reality?!)

There is nowhere on earth (save in the privacy of your own home, WHEN you are entirely alone within it) where you can say anything you wish without consequence. (And that leaves off any supernatural consequences; I expect there is nowhere God cannot hear you!)

If, as seems to be the case with Anglin, causing a ruckus, upsetting people and making them recoil, is your pleasure -- then you WILL be hounded from pillar to post! NO ONE is required to allow you to say and do whatever you wish. They may choose to ignore you; they may wish to let you but be unable to for any of a variety of reasons; they may punch you in the mouth or drive you out of town... In ALL instances, it is not on them, it is on you.

You (or Anglin) GOT your payoff; you got to upset people. Now you pay the consequences. But YOU pay them, other people need not chip in -- or take damage themselves because of your desire to upset people. Do NOT expect (or ask) someone else, someone doing YOU a service, to fall on his sword just so YOU can have your fun causing a ruckus! Four-yr-old children do that; not adults!

Blogger SirGroggy September 04, 2017 9:28 PM  

Perhaps it would help if you understand that I don't believe that free speech exists anymore than equality does.

This is truly the Dark Lord.

Unfortunately I am coming to see this is true, as is the case with identity politics. It's like when politicians say everything should be bipartisan. It's a utopia.

Blogger Jeffrey Johnson September 04, 2017 9:31 PM  

These Nazi LARPers never stop embarrassing us. It's always something with them and whatever they do always puts us on the True Right in a bad position. They can't even avoid behavior that embarrasses people who are willing to tolerate their presence. We've begged them just to avoid acting like total and complete morons and they continue to double down on their moronic actions. And then they get upset when we stop tolerating their crap. Nazi LARPers are the bottom of the barrel.

Blogger DonReynolds September 04, 2017 9:32 PM  

@48 Johnny
"Common law evolved in Britain in the last few hundred years and it is the exception in law, not the rule."

Common Law did not evolve in Britain, except if you say it is the last vestige of the Roman Law that was brought to Britain. That was exactly the product of the Roman Senate, to write the law and they did so by rather narrow topics, not just for Rome but for the entire Empire. Over the centuries, that august body cultivated what we now call Common Law.

Blogger Kristophr September 04, 2017 9:34 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Alt retard internet trainwreck is one of the best forms of internet trainwreck.

The trainwreck is Ralph Fiennes.


Looks like someone is wearing military devices he did not earn. Larper.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 04, 2017 9:37 PM  

@53 No, Johnny is right. Common law did evolve in Britain. Perhaps you're thinking of civil law.

Anonymous Martin September 04, 2017 9:38 PM  

"there is no reason to hesitate to ban anyone from any site for any reason the site owner deems desirable"

Agreeable standpoint, but not really the issue here.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 04, 2017 9:40 PM  

Free speech not only does not exist, but it is as harmful in imperfect practice as free trade.

Because free speech inherently means a forced exchange, the closer an environment simulates freedom of speech, the greater the likelihood of political violence.

Speech exchange within homogeneous nations can be closer to free, just as trade within nations can be free, relative to the oppressive global free trade.

In other words, it is one thing if I feel obligated to let a blowhard American spout off at a town hall meeting, as long as I retain the right to make him look like a fool in public.

It is another thing entirely for me to exercise the "right" at the DMV to tell laquisha to stop having random bastards for pedophile foster parents to get ahold of.

Anonymous Avalanche September 04, 2017 9:40 PM  

@17 The Anglin pic, while not on the first-glance anything that bad, is a picture of a Woman dying,

In general, in White Western society, it is considered 'bad manners' to gratuitously display such things. No matter if 'we' dislike the person, that person has family and out of consideration for that family (even if we dislike THEM); it is considered appropriate to FEIGN consideration for their feelings. NOT because we care about their feelings, but because of what it says about US!

I was surprised by (and both annoyed by -- and then dismayed at my own coarseness for not being familiar with) the Southern courtesy of stopping traffic in all directions for a funeral cortege. Oh sure, I'd READ about it in literary works -- but "up North" -- in liberal-ville (also horrifically jew-ridden-ville), that was deprecated as stupid slow Southerners... but to actually have MY journey disrupted to let some bunch of cars following a hearse go through first (and with police escort!)? How ... quaint. (How less-than-modern.)

Modernity is its own punishment. Now, I am suitably considerate of the people who have lost someone. Now THEY are part of my community and while I do not know who they are or who has died; I KNOW the human condition, and they are a part of MY people.

The coarsening and degrading of White Euro-derived people is a thing FORCED on us by our (((foreign enemies))). "Playing along" with that coarsening, trying to push it farther and taking joy and pleasure in trespassing the considerations and courtesies that OUR people have had,and should still have, is neither supporting or trying to save our White Euro-derived nation. If Anglin (and his followers) wish to SAVE "us" -- he's sure as hell doing it the wrong way!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 04, 2017 9:42 PM  

It is extremely gracious of Torba to provide this public explanation for deleting ONE POST. And in light of his explanation it's obvious that he's trying to provide a platform for free speech but that he had only one realistic option.

Blogger DonReynolds September 04, 2017 9:46 PM  

@57 Free Speech does not create an obligation on the part of the listener to agree, nor does it protect the speaker from reply.

This is exactly the part the Leftists hate about Free Speech. They insist that you agree with your silence with no back sass.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 04, 2017 9:47 PM  

These Nazi LARPers never stop embarrassing us.

Stop clucking. They are hippie Leftists with a Hitler fetish and fag haircuts.

They can't embarrass people on the Right, and the Right should not hesitate to call them out and cast them out whenever they hamhandedly LARP AltRight identities.

Blogger Lazarus September 04, 2017 9:48 PM  

A discussion of the original intent of free speech From the Federalist Blog.

http://www.federalistblog.us/2008/10/freedom_of_speech_and_of_the_press/

A little know court ruling in 1891 did what many courts have struggled to do; correctly recite the historical meaning of the freedom in two simple sentences:

And so the history of the struggle for the establishment of the principle of freedom of speech and press shows that it was not ordinary talk and publication, which was to be disenthralled from censorship, suppression and punishment. It was in a large degree a species of talk and publication which had been found distasteful to governmental powers and agencies.


Gab's position, Google's position, Twitter's position does not seem to fall under the original intent of freedom of speech requirements.

It may be repugnant to whomever, but not a judicial violation.

"Free Speech" movements like the one that arose in Berkely back in the day are rhetorical-political, not dialectical-judicial, IMHO.

Anonymous Panzer Man September 04, 2017 9:48 PM  

"If, as seems to be the case with Anglin, causing a ruckus, upsetting people and making them recoil, is your pleasure -- then you WILL be hounded from pillar to post! NO ONE is required to allow you to say and do whatever you wish. They may choose to ignore you; they may wish to let you but be unable to for any of a variety of reasons; they may punch you in the mouth or drive you out of town... In ALL instances, it is not on them, it is on you.

You (or Anglin) GOT your payoff; you got to upset people. Now you pay the consequences. But YOU pay them, other people need not chip in -- or take damage themselves because of your desire to upset people. Do NOT expect (or ask) someone else, someone doing YOU a service, to fall on his sword just so YOU can have your fun causing a ruckus! Four-yr-old children do that; not adults!"

The problem is, that a statement that broad and vague applies to this site as well. Or any site. This site upsets plenty of people as well -- we see them trolling here daily .

So that means now that Vox should be hounded from pillar to post and silenced? Might as well enact the German laws where you can be thrown in prisoner and fined hundreds of thousands for daring to point out that immigrants bring high crime rates, or, like that Swede, be arrested for eating a bacon sandwich in front of 4 Muslim women, and be done with it.

(No, I'm not a huge Stormer fan, though I don't particularly detest them, either. But it sounds like now you're agreeing that the entire Alt-Right should be banned from the Internet and only Political Correctness allowed. First it was "leftism is a war on noticing, using being offended at everything as a weapon." Now it's "if you offend anyone, you deserve to be silenced." It's a little odd.)

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents September 04, 2017 9:52 PM  

@38 Cail Corishev
In this case, they're sitting there minding their own business when some SJWs (perhaps ones in their own company) say,

"Nice little bidness you got here. Be shame if anything bad happened to it, ya know? How about you do what we say? Just to be nice."

Now, if only there was a word to describe this. We could explain it to normal people. If only a word.

Blogger Johnny September 04, 2017 9:54 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:@53 No, Johnny is right. Common law did evolve in Britain. Perhaps you're thinking of civil law.

Civil law is an action between individuals as plaintiff and defendant. Criminal law is when the crime is assumed to be against the state. It is the state against John Doe (or whoever).

The Romans had two innovations in law. One was the use of a professional judiciary. You did not just see Pontius Pilot, the local ruler, you saw a judge. The other innovation was law as a set of principles instead of a list of proscribed punishments. It is one of the great and unappreciated advances that took place in history.

By chance event I happen to know a little about Napoleonic Law, which was heavily based on Roman law. (ie typical) Everything was based on the official writing (no reference to previous judgements, no 'common' element), and you went before a three judge panel, no jury.

Blogger Lazarus September 04, 2017 9:56 PM  

A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents wrote:If only a word.

Don't be a tease..........

Anonymous Avalanche September 04, 2017 9:58 PM  

@22 The car in the GAB post looks like it's silver with a black vinyl top.

So, you have not looked into this accident at all, then? The silver with black top convertible was struck by the gray Challenger, and forced into a maroon van. I have been watching various vids, discussions, and replays.(As with all these sorts of incidents; there is a LOT of ... disconcerting "evidence" that this could very easily have been false flag.)

It is not clear / no one has yet shown WHERE the girl who was killed was. Was she between the van and the silver car, or the silver car and the Challenger? Did the ISP even know WHICH picture it was they were banning? I don't know.

As in all these things, there is a pile -- and a growing pile of weird stuff... the driver was in an all-white shirt with no collar; the kid arrested was in a CLEARLY black and white shirt with a collar. Did the police dress him up differently for his mug shot?

The first report FROM THE POLICE was that the kid was scared and had panicked and hit the gas (and looking at some of the videos -- some antifa had whacked-in his driver-side window with a bat immediately before he floored it into the crowd... Later, of course, it turned into "a vicious attack by an evil nazi." ONE unnamed teacher allegedly said the kid liked nazis -- no other teacher has spoken up? No one else?

Either look into the videos yourself -- or perhaps stop telling people what you THINK happened, on the basis of what the MSM is putting out. (I watched a pair of interesting ones today: the maroon van was sitting -- sans driver -- for at least five minute (on video) at the intersection, WELL before there was no reason to try to drive through the intersection.

Weirdly, same guy "Ford somebody" who 'happened' to live-stream the Challenger some streets away and some 8 minutes before the accident; and THEN shortly after walked by -- and VERY carefully and clearly streamed the empty maroon van blocking the street... and THEN walked a couple blocks further and stood and waited till he heard the accident and then ran towards it. AND this Ford-guy has interviewed Spencer and Enoch and Anglin and someone else... He CLAIMS to have been following the Alt Right guys, right up until he decided to stop and wait a block from where the accident would be.

The guy who did the two vids pulled the van's plate (off a different vid); and from that got the VIN (and owner's name). Checked the VIN, and IF it's correct (and it's easy enough for DMV to make mistakes) then the 2008 van was *salvaged* (to a company in TX!) in April 2017 -- as a GRAY van with front end damage -- in Helena MT! Sold to the guy in VA just a few months before it ended up parked but empty in the middle of the street where it got hit...

Conspiracy theory or just more deep state? Interesting to watch.

Anonymous johnc September 04, 2017 10:01 PM  

If, as seems to be the case with Anglin, causing a ruckus, upsetting people and making them recoil, is your pleasure -- then you WILL be hounded from pillar to post!

I'm not sure why people are focusing on just Anglin here. Did you read the registrar's ToS that I posted? They're quite common for the industry.

They don't even allow you to criticize gay marriage.

Ann Barnhardt got shoah'd for simply criticizing Islam. She's not an Alt-Reichtard.

Things are moving very quickly. Anybody to the right of Stalin is going to be de-platformed at the infrastructure level.

Blogger DonReynolds September 04, 2017 10:04 PM  

@58 Avalanche
"I was surprised by (and both annoyed by -- and then dismayed at my own coarseness for not being familiar with) the Southern courtesy of stopping traffic in all directions for a funeral cortege. Oh sure, I'd READ about it in literary works -- but "up North" -- in liberal-ville (also horrifically jew-ridden-ville), that was deprecated as stupid slow Southerners... but to actually have MY journey disrupted to let some bunch of cars following a hearse go through first (and with police escort!)? How ... quaint. (How less-than-modern.)"

On my first day on the job (2008) as city manager of a small town in the Texas Hill Country, I got a call from a woman who breathlessly told me that the hearse would be coming through my town in exactly an hour and to have everyone in town along the main highway route....and the emergency vehicles of all types.

I wondered who in the world has died, without me noticing? Was it the president, or governor, or US Senator? No, it was a kid who graduated from high school the year before, from another town in the county, and had been killed in Iraq. His family and very young widow were following in the car behind the hearse.

That was exactly what happened. Much of the town stood at the edge of the highway and the emergency vehicles turned on their lights, while the procession passed through my town to a funeral home another 15 miles away.

OpenID aew51183 September 04, 2017 10:05 PM  

8chan has been subject to SJW attack against their entire hosting and registry stack since gamergate started.

They were forced to move registrars until they settled with tucows, which basically says "tough luck" under their report abuse section.

they kicked off the stormer, but the stormer was the subject of the most wide-spread case of mass hysteria I've seen in public memory.

Then there's zensurfrei, a specifically anti-censorship registrar.

I was able to come up with these options within an hour.

Gab did not even bother considering these options, despite "selling" the service of a free speech platform to the tune of over a million dollars.

At this point I'm calling fraud. They really don't care at all if they're not even willing to try.

If a cripple running a site out of a filipino apartment block can do better than these well-funded people, it doesn't say much for them.

Anonymous Per Persson September 04, 2017 10:06 PM  

The Canadian registrar EasyDNS.com require court order to take down a domain as far as I know. Internetbs.net might also be an option.

Blogger Johnny September 04, 2017 10:14 PM  

johnc wrote:Things are moving very quickly. Anybody to the right of Stalin is going to be de-platformed at the infrastructure level.

This is all getting creepy. And the weird thing is the nonsense crapola they want to push on us.

Blogger Mountain Man September 04, 2017 10:18 PM  

"So where the Left doesn't have political control, it's using economic blackmail to get the job done"

This has always been their modus operandi. The environmental movement ( of which they are just one tentacle of the SJW occultupus) has been utilizing this technique for decades- with great success. The timber industry wouldn't have third party "green" certification without it. There was zero demand within the marketplace for it.It was driven solely by the green marxists.

Anonymous User September 04, 2017 10:19 PM  

Ben Franklin's autobiography remains to this day the essential work on understanding freedom of speech and the press.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 04, 2017 10:22 PM  

The Canadian registrar EasyDNS.com require court order to take down a domain as far as I know.

A month ago, I would have said that was true of most registrars. Many of them said as much. Then they abandoned that when Daily Stormer came along and they were told what would happen to them if they didn't participate in the blackballing. And every ToS is going to include some legalese that allows them to make exceptions to their general methods. So you can't assume anything a company said in the past about being anti-censorship still holds true. You won't know until they do or don't.

I emailed my own registrar's abuse@ address, asking what they would do in a similar hypothetical situation. They've ignored my query, which I take as a good sign (the best abuse@ mailboxes go to /dev/null), but it's hardly definitive.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 04, 2017 10:32 PM  

The law and nature of the material world are red in tooth and claw.

You can say whatever you want. You'll only be able to say it another time if you have both the power and the control to preclude anyone stopping you.

Welcome to the jungle.

Blogger Dos Voltz September 04, 2017 10:37 PM  

@66 Avalanche

Thanks for that

Blogger Ron September 04, 2017 10:43 PM  

@M Cephas

I don't think what the Founders meant by "free speech" included the obscene to begin with.

Once the Warren court confirmed the obscene as "speech", then speech lost all value, we lost the speech and were left with the obscene.

Anonymous Tom Nicholes September 04, 2017 11:14 PM  

As someone who worked for both Sen. Rubio and Sen. Cruz, I can verify some of the Alt-Retards at the Daily Stormfront were FBI. Many others are Russian agents. Sadly, many "Nazi" Russians were trolls for President Trump, which will probably lead to his impeachment. For example "Ricky Vaughn" was a swastika panties alt-retard who was recently outed as a Russian hacker.

Blogger TM Lutas September 04, 2017 11:15 PM  

Read the Internet RFCs to understand how the Internet actually works. Don't be lazy. Along the way, learn how to modify your hosts file so a DNS knock down won't affect you. Also, learn to run a local DNS server on your home network. Do all three of those and you'll be able to make your own infrastructure.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat September 04, 2017 11:15 PM  

I've seen comments on Gab that perhaps this was just a troll from Anglin that went badly wrong. On the contrary from the point of view of Anglin and his paymasters, it went exactly as intended. I hope Anglin agrees to debate VD. Anglin needs to be shown up in public as the tool he is.

Anonymous Gab Angel Seed Investor September 04, 2017 11:18 PM  

Andrew Anglin and the Alt-Reichtards forget anti-semitism is illegal across the globe.

Anonymous Per Persson September 04, 2017 11:22 PM  

@Cail Corishev

[blockquote]A month ago, I would have said that was true of most registrars. Many of them said as much. Then they abandoned that when Daily Stormer came along and they were told what would happen to them if they didn't participate in the blackballing. And every ToS is going to include some legalese that allows them to make exceptions to their general methods. So you can't assume anything a company said in the past about being anti-censorship still holds true. You won't know until they do or don't.[/blockquote]

I have been doing business in grey areas since 2001 and got my domain frozen on godaddy as early as 2005. Moved to easydns.com in 2005 and have never had a problem since. Considering that they charge triple what other registrars do I assume their stance is more than just talk and have no reason as of now to think otherwise.

Anonymous Jesse James September 04, 2017 11:25 PM  

Vox, what are you doing? This is not a case of Gab censoring users. This is about the domain registrar forcing Gab to censor one specific user (against their will). This is not a one-off case. This will happen again, and it will happen with much more mild posts.

The day is soon coming where gab.ia will be removed from the internet by the corporate elites, for no justifiable reason whatsoever, same as they did with daily stormer. Will you defend the "muh rights" of the domain registrar? Somehow I doubt it.

Heaven forbid, but there will also be a day when voxday.blogspot.com will be removed for violating Google's "hate speech codes". And the chickens come home to roost.

This is not about the "fake right". This isn't about perceived plants and conspiracy theories about who has the correct ideology, and who doesn't. This is about the far-right (as a whole) having a space to speak freely in the public sphere. If we lose the internet, then we lose everything.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club September 04, 2017 11:33 PM  

@63 - Taxation?

Blogger Elocutioner September 04, 2017 11:38 PM  

@83 No shit. If every little setback is fatal because muh principlez! we'll lose a whole lot quicker. Noble losers are still losers.

"We were able to knock Gab offline with a single abuse complaint? How pathetic. Who should we eliminate next?"

Blogger Matthew Funk September 04, 2017 11:52 PM  

Andrew Torba should have made it known immediately that he was unable to bring about the ideal result. Being unable to fulfill a promise is different than being unwilling to do so. He made this information known in approximately 3 hours time, but that was enough time to bring about a lot of speculation. Obviously, my Monday morning quarterbacking from outside the hot seat is a different situation than being in the hot seat at the moment, but Torba agreed after the fact that he had made a tactical error in not talking about the threat by the registrar earlier. That's not a big deal. He's obviously a very sincere individual doing everything in his power to uphold his ideal, regardless of who does or doesn't share it, and has externally imposed limitations. The people who cry the hardest are the ones with the greatest sense of entitlement. I just wanted, and received, an explanation. I wasn't even owed an explanation, I'm not a donor/investor. However, his donors were due one as soon as possible. Given the concerns behind the scenes, three hours was a decent response time. It could have been avoided and I have no doubt it will be in the future going forward.

Anonymous DissidentRight September 05, 2017 12:05 AM  

@83 If we lose the internet, then we lose everything.

We've already lost the internet, you moron. Of course it will happen again. We don't have a place to speak, anywhere. We're going to have to build an alt-internet and alt-everything. Torba is already on it.

OpenID aew51183 September 05, 2017 12:10 AM  

@86

But there ARE free-speech domain registrars. Torba just didn't do his due diligence vetting them. He simply ASSUMED they were all sjw-converged when that's not necessarily the case.

If the assertions of SJW-convergence were 100% true, the chans would have been nuked from orbit years ago.

Blogger tublecane September 05, 2017 12:11 AM  

"I don't believe that free speech exists any more than equality does."

It does a bit more. Freedom is understood to be a relative condition. One thing cannot be "more equal" than another. It either is equal to something, or it's not.

There's no such thing as general equality. There can be such a thing as a general level of basic freedom of speech. Though that's not what we have now.

Blogger Eric Slate September 05, 2017 12:15 AM  

A site professed dedication to freedom of speech. A liberal response of sending illegal messages from sock puppet accounts, then reporting those statements to the powers that be AND decrying the company for removing the offensive content...seems to come straight out of rules for radicals to me. Remember, liberals have no moral code, only obedience to the collective.

Anonymous Jesse James September 05, 2017 12:23 AM  

@87

>We've already lost the internet, you moron.

no we haven't. It's only just begun. But it surely doesn't help when a man who has long exercised free speech (and hate speech) on private platforms begins to strongly advocate for the right of (((corporate censorship))).

No, monopolies like Google do not have the right to censor right-wing speech. And yes, I'm willing to support the power of the state in enforcing that statement. This is the current year, my dude. Ron Paul isn't president, and we don't have to cuck ourselves for corporate interests.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 05, 2017 12:26 AM  

@83 Jesse James

Bingo. Though which parts of it should be fought out in public, and how, is another question.

@66 Avalanche
"@22 The car in the GAB post looks like it's silver with a black vinyl top.

So, you have not looked into this accident at all, then? The silver with black top convertible was struck by the gray Challenger, and forced into a maroon van"

Excellent points. The pic from Gab looks to be a cropped version of a photo that's been widely circulated, and that shows the Challenger as well. You can see the van even in the cropped version.

It's also interesting to note who filmed the "viral" video of the crash, and that they're been no report of an autopsy, or even a cause of death. No interview with anyone from the maroon van or the Toyota, either. I assume that part of the reason for the insistence on the deletion of that post was simply because it was Anglin's. Interestingly, though, it did not originate with him, but was a re-Gab (?).

It was probably singled out at least in part because it raises questions about the crash, and about this woman's death, that they would rather gloss over, but also because she has been chosen as a designated martyr for the Left, so this type of thing constitutes blasphemy in their eyes. Put that together with "fat-shaming," and perhaps "misogyny," and you've got several triggers piling up.


Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 05, 2017 12:28 AM  

@92 Should be "there's been no report"

Blogger Samuel Nock September 05, 2017 12:34 AM  

>It should have been marked #NSFW and it was not, therefore it is in violation of our Community Guidelines.

This is a stretch at best. The photo -- of Heather Heyer getting hit by the car (or more likely NOT getting hit: she appears to have ducked away onto the hood of the other car) at Charlottesville is not particularly edgy even by newsroom standards. There have been plenty of photos of victims shown by the MSM.

I support Torba, and I think he is clearly having his hand forced here.

But it is not a very convincing position that the photo Anglin reposted violates Gab's ToS.

Blogger Montrose September 05, 2017 12:34 AM  

You don't need to believe in free speech to use it as a rhetorical device for your own ends.

I mean, equality worked really well as a rhetorical device, didn't it?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 05, 2017 12:35 AM  

@78 Tom Nicholes
"As someone who worked for both Sen. Rubio and Sen. Cruz..."

You forgot to mention that Dmitri Alperovitch is a KGB double agent, too. Say hi to Foam Boy for me.

Anonymous DissidentRight September 05, 2017 12:37 AM  

@91 No, monopolies like Google do not have the right to censor right-wing speech.

Rights have never, ever mattered to SJWs. What Google has a "right" to do is irrelevant. What do they have the power to do?

no we haven't. It's only just begun.

Yes we have. Our enemies control all the infrastructure. They have all the power. There is literally nothing preventing them from wiping us off the net beyond their fear that normies might revolt if they act too fast.

Anyway. Don't confuse war-time policy with legal precedence. Nationalizing Google is an act of just war. It has absolutely no other implications. Of course Google, in principle, has the right to censor anything it damn well pleases. That's how private property works.

The more interesting question is whether the State has the right to censor things that are against the national interest. Unclear.

Sorry for calling you a moron.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 05, 2017 12:38 AM  

@81 Gab Angel Seed Investor
"Andrew Anglin and the Alt-Reichtards forget anti-semitism is illegal across the globe"

Exactly. Failure to worship the Tribe is clearly heresy. It's obvious. How could he not know that? On the other hand, what evidence do you have that the dead woman was a rootless cosmopolitan?

Blogger Wynn Lloyd September 05, 2017 12:45 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger papabear September 05, 2017 12:48 AM  

"American "Free Speech" was tied with Religion: it's a truce among Christians to prevent everyone from starting more wars. Which is still a problem, somehow."

A liberal myth. See William Cavanaugh on the so-called wars of religion.

Anonymous praetorian September 05, 2017 12:52 AM  

Free speech is one of the few areas the right is actually in the fight. It is one of the few areas where the right might actually score a meaningful win in the next year. It is one of the few areas where the cultural marxists haven't successfully inverted morality in the broader society.

But sure, let's logic chop.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2017 12:53 AM  

@Francis Parker Yockey

Anglin is known for his race-mixing and his desire of underage Filipina girls. He's not one of us and never has been. Same with the National Vanguard. Filled with pederasts, they are.

You can criticize the Tribe in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Wonderful places, I've heard. At least from David Duke.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd September 05, 2017 12:55 AM  

I get your point there.
But I don't see how images like the one in question serve our agenda.
They just seem tactically unsound.

Then again, Anglin has been at it for years so I can't really criticize.
All of these kinds of events end up paralyzing us for days on end, though.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd September 05, 2017 1:06 AM  

Thinking again on it, I have to say that I haven't done s#%* for our cause.
I shouldn't criticize people who are doing something.
Vox's arguments just make a great deal of sense to me.

Anonymous Jesse James September 05, 2017 1:12 AM  

@97

>Don't confuse war-time policy with legal precedence

I'm not. I understand the difference between outlook, and plan of action. I'm critiquing the outlook that we should cede ground to the left on the basis of abstract premises such as rights of private corporations.

>Of course Google, in principle, has the right to censor anything it damn well pleases. That's how private property works.

Legally, yes they can censor. But it should not be a principle of ours that they can. This is exactly the type of cucked libertarian mindset that certain folks never seem to throw off.

>The more interesting question is whether the State has the right to censor things that are against the national interest

I say yes, but that's assuming the state is acting traditionally on behalf of the people, and according to real national interests. But we haven't had that in decades.

>Sorry for calling you a moron.

Fair enough

Blogger Cynic In Chief September 05, 2017 1:25 AM  

Looks like Torba and others are scraping together the funds for an alternate domain registrar. If this succeeds, then the Globalists attempt at censorship is bypassed for now. If not, then we go to alternate DNS roots or another network. We techies will not be silenced as long as we have a computer and electricity.

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 1:37 AM  

@88 Whatever tactical errors Torba may have made are acceptable if he's willing to admit them and learn from them. He did and he is. That's more than enough for me. For three hours time, he didn't clarify that it was an externally imposed limitation and not within his control. It would have been wiser to bring that up immediately, but what is done is done. I'm sure he'll find a free speech registrar and that will work for a time. Perhaps this will buy him time to get his own registrar and circumvent that particular risk entirely. Many are making the mistake of conflating his externally imposed limitations with hypocrisy, I am not. I am not implying you are either. If any external party, no matter how sincere their desire to platform him, is strongarmed out of being able to, he'll be in the same boat. There are no entirely safe positions, but the safest position he can be in is to own a registar, which I am sure he is working on or at least considering. He's the man who is bleeding for a cause, Monday morning quarterbacking is rendered irrelevant to those who have skin in the game.

OpenID aew51183 September 05, 2017 1:50 AM  

@107

I'm just not buying his feigning of helplessness here.

He was just given tons of seed money, and all of a sudden his registrar is threatening him?

That's not a situation to lament, that's a massive market opportunity being tossed into his lap like a lump of platinum at a time when he's flush with fresh cash to take advantage.

Even if it costs him operating budget for gab, pursuing accreditation with ICANN and launching a registrar with an iron-clad mission of "all legal speech" will yield dividends financially and politically.

Blogger YIH September 05, 2017 1:53 AM  

@69. aew51183
8chan has been subject to SJW attack against their entire hosting and registry stack since gamergate started.
They were forced to move registrars until they settled with tucows, which basically says "tough luck" under their report abuse section.

Hotwheels left himself vulnerable by allowing very legally questionable stuff to be posted - and to stay there. That's why their first registrar pulled the 8chan.co domain, the reason given was ''child abuse''. I really don't blame them, if they didn't pull it, they could have gotten in legal trouble themselves.
The difference with Anglin and Stormfront was while many consider what they had noxious, it wasn't illegal.
On every Daily Stormer page:
Disclaimer
We here at the Daily Stormer are opposed to violence. We seek revolution through the education of the masses. When the information is available to the people, systemic change will be inevitable and unavoidable.
Anyone suggesting or promoting violence in the comments section will be immediately banned, permanently.

Stormfront also moderated/banned such stuff. Because Stormfront (as a website) has been around since 1996 they'd had plenty of experience with what's legal and what's not. Anglin used that as a model for his policies.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 2:04 AM  

@108 He's doing exactly that as we speak. A temporary state of helplessness is different from a permanent state. He had a setback, he's moving forward.

Anonymous The Collective Entity September 05, 2017 2:11 AM  

VD: how many people are the collective entity known as Andrew Anglin? Does he/it even exist?? HMM???

Anonymous Another Liar September 05, 2017 2:19 AM  

Gab.ai promoted itself as a free speech platform. Now Torba is exposed as a liar.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 2:22 AM  

@97 There is literally nothing preventing them from wiping us off the net beyond their fear that normies might revolt if they act too fast.

You smell something, Rabbit?

(sniffs)

Fear.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 2:40 AM  

@112 Being unable to fulfill a promise due to exterior circumstance is different from willfully disregarding a promise. He is taking steps to be in a better position to fulfill that ideal. If I say I'll be home in 20 minutes, but get into a fender bender on the way home, it is not the same as saying I'll be home in 20 minutes and staying at the bar for an additional four hours. One is a lie, one is simply an inability to fulfill a promise that was intended to be kept. Can you see the difference?

Anonymous HehPilled September 05, 2017 2:42 AM  

Sorry Vox I'm splitting with you here. Complete BS from Torba, as Gab was supposed to have free speech.

FREE SPEECH = Unless it's illegal content, it's staying up.

Torba decided to delete something because *his domain registrar didn't like it*, a completely subjective reason that will forever taint Gab. We *must* crowdfund a new Domain Registrar, but instead of taking this opportunity to crowdfund, Torba decided to censor just like Twitter would.

Blogger Elder Son September 05, 2017 2:54 AM  

One day, the only free-speech you will see on the internet, is the "right kind" of free-speech.

Now, go ahead and laugh. Not one of you "own" the internet. None of you "own" your blogs.

Welcome to Babel. Because most people ARE idiots, and wouldn't. Babel on, they count on it.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 2:55 AM  

Anglin gave his word that he'd remove the post after it was revealed that the DNS was threatening the whole site with that post. It has been several hours and he hasn't kept it. He has 8-9 hours to keep his word and comply with Torba's demand that he remove it. If he fails to do so, he will have extended the generosity/mercy given to him. I suspect that he won't keep his word, but I could be proven wrong and I would be delighted to be such. Andrew Anglin never feels shame for any reason including ones that normal people would feel shame for. He literally operates on the premise that any attention is good attention and would be delighted to be on peoples' tongues as "the guy who sunk Gab" or alternatively "the guy so hated by the DNS registrars that Gab was struck from the internet merely for giving him a voice." If Torba punishes Anglin, lightly or totally, for failing to uphold his word, it will absolutely prove that Anglin can not be trusted for ANYTHING. I honestly have no idea if there is any evidence whether or not he keeps or breaks his word under extreme circumstances, as Anglin is so shameless and unconcerned with collateral damage that I don't know what would constitute an extreme circumstance for him.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 3:00 AM  

We're at a point that we don't just need a new domain registrar, we need new networking protocols. If we did bankroll a new registrar, big tech would just blacklist it.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 3:04 AM  

@117 Didn't realize the post hadn't been taken down yet. After looking at it... it's far less offensive than I had imagined.

Certainly well short of being illegal.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 3:11 AM  

Yeah if Torba doesn't fight this he's giving up any possibility of Gab being a viable alternative to Twitter. I know he's in a shitty position but the only reasonable choice here is to fight.

Anonymous Perfunctory Solecism September 05, 2017 3:13 AM  

It's not about that one particular post, it's that the host or server can do this at any time they want to any post or account they like, including political accounts which was the whole point of Gab's free speech marketing. It's also the fact that Torba should have known this would be the case since the beginning, especially after the recent purges, and that he must have known this fatal flaw throughout his entire marketing and fundraising campaign.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 3:16 AM  

@119 The DNS registar will yank the entire site if the offending post (by their standards) is not removed. Anglin is in the position to save the site by removing it voluntarily or forcing Torba to remove it when his 24 hour deadline expires. He has expressed a willingness to "crash the plane and leave no survivors" and a willingness to comply in his communications since. One was prior to the revelation that the DNS was behind things, one was after. As I said, I have no idea what his history is like in regards to keeping or breaking promises. I have no inclination to research the matter. My speculation is that he will not, as he is a pretty god damned shameless person, but I could be wrong and would be delighted to be wrong. The site will legally be taken down if the post remains beyond a 48 hour deadline (not sure when that 48 hour deadline was initiated) given to Torba by the DNS registrar. It doesn't matter that the legal entities permit it if the DNS registrar has TOS that do not.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 3:20 AM  

@122 Understood. And if Gab can't post something that is mildly offensive and well within the bounds of legality, then Gab has no future. Better to fight it and go out with a bang. Anglin might have forced Gab to make this choice sooner rather than later, but this was coming regardless of Anglin. This isn't just about one man.

Anonymous Perfunctory Solecism September 05, 2017 3:27 AM  

"he DNS registar will yank the entire site if the offending post (by their standards) is not removed. Anglin is in the position to save the site by removing it voluntarily or forcing Torba to remove it when his 24 hour deadline expires. "

Irrelevant, even if this post is removed, the precedent is set for Gab as it has already been set on other sites in the recent past. Any post can be required to be removed at any time. There is no way to predict in advance (within broad guidelines, too broad) what might create a problem with the DNS.

It galls me that the people at Gab knew this like everyone else who's been keeping up with these stories knows it. If Gab is only promising that their moderation policies are looser and less converged than those of FB, Twitter, etc., that would be fine and it might be enough to make Gab preferable to other platforms. But it still seems that they are knowingly promising something that they know they simply do not have the authority to deliver.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 3:31 AM  

@123 No, it isn't just about the individuals, I concur. However, buying a bit of time by complying allows them to solidify their defenses against the next attack. It's better to sacrifice some territory for shoring up other territories. The current retreat is wise. This buys time to get their own DNS. I understand that someone somewhere can just take the fight one level higher or engage in illegal activity, but fighting back is better than simply surrendering. We're going to get battered and bruised along the way, this is what we signed on for.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 3:33 AM  

@124 It is not simply Torba's fight, it is all of ours. He stuck his neck out for us, it is time to return the favor. If Torba doesn't have the authority to keep a promise, then we'll help him secure that authority or at least die trying (metaphorically)

Anonymous Bz September 05, 2017 3:41 AM  

Hey hey, Serge and Larry,
How many ads did you serve today?

Hey hey, Serge and Larry,
How many kids did you silence today?

Anonymous Bz September 05, 2017 3:49 AM  

We should cast out Anglin and die for Torba, if I understand your proposal correctly?

Anonymous Looking Glass September 05, 2017 4:10 AM  

@124 Perfunctory Solecism

Are you new here? Because you'r talking like poo.


@123 Noah B The Savage Gardener

You're being dimwitted or trolling. The post in question was targeted by someone that went to the registrar. Possibly via someone with a photo credit on the picture, as the registrar actually didn't give details about the violation.

Because, let me repeat: This wasn't even the worst thing Anglin had gotten Trending. It wasn't about violating Gab's TOS (even if it had because it lacked the NSFW tag). It's wholly about someone being able to yank the chain of the registrar hard enough that they'd collapse the entire project before it really takes off.

I'm sad some people are either can't see this or are being paid to cause dissension.

Blogger VD September 05, 2017 4:14 AM  

But it surely doesn't help when a man who has long exercised free speech (and hate speech) on private platforms begins to strongly advocate for the right of (((corporate censorship))).

Begins? I have ALWAYS strongly advocated for the right of private censorship. The rules here have made that clear since 2003.

You are incredibly stupid.

Understood. And if Gab can't post something that is mildly offensive and well within the bounds of legality, then Gab has no future. Better to fight it and go out with a bang. Anglin might have forced Gab to make this choice sooner rather than later, but this was coming regardless of Anglin. This isn't just about one man.

Idiots like you always fail because you can't tell the difference between a winnable fight and an unwinnable one. That's why Torba should have done what I recommended and kicked Anglin off the site as soon as he joined it.

Attention-seekers like Anglin will always bring ruin in their wake to everyone around them. It's what they do.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 05, 2017 4:32 AM  

Free speech is a useful legal fiction in certain contexts, like the idea that corporations are people. But you can't hang your hat on either one.

Blogger Koanic September 05, 2017 4:47 AM  

It looks like Anglin will not comply with Torba's reasonable request to take down one meme. He has given "permission" to Torba to delete the memes. But he hasn't deleted them himself. That's not good enough. Anglin will probably be banned.

Multiple copies have been posted all over the site. Here's Anglin's latest repetition.

He's proven himself to be Alt-Retard.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 05, 2017 4:56 AM  

@132 Koanic

Anglin will want to be the martyr. So I'm trying to think of ways to game this out to serve Gab's objectives. Gab already has scripting to remove posts that flag on CP and other illegal content, so it could probably be set to flag any time Anglin posts it as private.

The original has to be deleted, but it's a going forward aspect. Anglin is going to push things until he's banned. Torba & crew are patient, but most of the rules are pretty clear and he's going to create a situation that gets himself banned.

In lieu of banning him, when it comes to that, I wonder if just making the account forcibly "private" would do most of the trick.

Blogger Samuel Nock September 05, 2017 5:01 AM  

Looking Glass: Anglin has actually been fairly subdued by his standards. It he wanted to shake stuff up and gotten banned, he wasn't trying very hard. The thing that actually triggered things is almost hilariously tame and lame. That said, his _not_ taking down the offending post is signaling that he may simply want to burn the bitch down. Not good. Anglin predicted that Gab would be a target, and this gives him an opportunity to say his prophecy came true, even though that's like predicting a building will burn down and then get caught holding a match.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 5:23 AM  

@128 I don't think it is possible to "cast out Anglin." I am not in power to "cast him out" so my thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. To be clear, I do want Anglin to have a means to address his audience as he wishes. It is not Gab's responsibility to provide that any more than it is your responsibility to take a man into your house because he does not have a home. Whether it was wise or not, Torba chose to give Anglin a platform. He has gone to great lengths to give Anglin a means to address his audience and Anglin has just a few more hours to either uphold his vow to cooperate by removing the post, knowing full well it was the DNS and not Torba that wanted the post removed and failure to remove the post could tank the site. I don't have authority to "cast Anglin out" and, as such, my opinion on whether or not that is wise is irrelevant. If people want to associate with Anglin, I have no inclination to stop them, I can only make choices as to who I associate with and who I advocate associating with. My advocations aren't law. If you want to support Anglin, fine. If you don't want to support Torba, fine. Those are your choices to make. I am of the opinion that if Anglin won't uphold his word, when he was shown an absolute abundance of goodwill by Mr. Torba, Torba would be right to cast him out. I also think it is wiser to refuse accounts in whole and allow free speech under law than accept any and all accounts and then place additional restrictions on them. But it isn't my platform and what matters is what Mr. Torba wants to do.

Anonymous Bz September 05, 2017 5:33 AM  

I'm just trying to figure out what you are advocating.

Anonymous Bz September 05, 2017 5:48 AM  

I don't think Anglin will comply, since open self-censorship would be conceding the game to the SV/SJW censors.

Whatever the outcome of this, Gab will of course also have to change registrar from Instra ("Instra Corporation is one of the world's most experienced and trusted domain name registrars" as they proudly point out on their home page).

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 5:51 AM  

I actually was wrong, I looked at the record and Anglin "gave permission" to Torba to remove his post. He more or less said that there would be no hard feelings if Torba did what he had to do. Conversely, Torba has asked Anglin to remove his post personally. On one hand, Anglin's hubris and reputation for doing what he does would make him lose cred with his audience by deleting his own words. Alternatively, being forced to delete someone else's post for something other than a clear rules violation (which the NSFW thing technically was) is not a comfortable position for Torba. It is a game of chicken to see who deletes the post first. Anglin is insisting that Torba pull the trigger, Torba is insisting Anglin pull the trigger. Obviously, given that Gab is Torba's platform, the wishes of Torba take precedence, as they are the only ones that truly matter. I am advocating that Torba keep his word and give Anglin the full 24 hours, but at the 24th hour and one minute, he remove the post and punish Anglin for not complying with his extremely polite/reasonable request that he remove it. Torba has no problem wielding the ban hammer against unlawful speech, as cited in the Medium article, but is reticent to erase a post that merely lacks an NSFW setting where it ought to have one. After all that Torba has done for Anglin, Anglin refusing to comply of his own volition, forcing Torba to be the heavy, means that Torba should stop extending excessive mercy to someone who is biting the hand that is feeding him. The frog and the scorpion come to mind, but I believe someone already cited that.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 5:53 AM  

Conceding one battle is not equivalent to conceding a war. Conceding one battle to buy time and reorganize troops is wiser than treating every battle as the last stand.

Anonymous Bz September 05, 2017 6:02 AM  

I think it would be quite unfortunate if Gab or Torba punishes Anglin more than symbolically (if at all) at the behest of a third party.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 05, 2017 6:07 AM  

@137 Bz

Because of the double-down nature of SJWs & Thought Control-types, Gab is close enough to "normal" that it'll start the escalation process for Web 3.0. We're already far enough from Cville that is won't be associated with that.

The key is what happens on Tucker's show tonight. That interview has suddenly gotten a lot more hostile in nature. It was never going to be a puff piece, but it can be turned into a hit piece really fast. (News Corp doesn't own MySpace anymore, so that's at least not an issue.)

I expect @a will need kill the post at 24h. Nothing much of a problem with that now. There's no game of Chicken here; @a is the law on Gab, at the end of it all. (Yes, somehow I saw @a in my head when talking about Andrew. There's a meme in there... somewhere.)

Anonymous Looking Glass September 05, 2017 6:09 AM  

@140 Bz

Gab didn't boot him when they found a bug in the NSFW function and were abusing it (and then crying foul). This wouldn't have been an issue except for the Registrar.

Anonymous Bz September 05, 2017 6:10 AM  

Perhaps the proper response by Gab would be to simply replace the offending image with a blog post telling the reader the background. No need to whitewash it. In essence, Gab were forced to do this by a critical third-party service provider, Instra Corporation, which they at the moment cannot replace.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 6:15 AM  

The reason I would punish has nothing to do with the content of the post. If you were a guest in my house and you offended me, I would give you exactly two minutes to start gathering your belongings, three minutes to finish the task and if you were not gone in 5 minutes, I would consider you to be a trespasser. Some might think this harsh, some might think this lenient, but in my house it is my standard. The point is that I would consider myself bound to exactly those five minutes, not one second less or more. If you were there in 301 seconds, there would be a change in tone to say the least. I think 24 hours was excessive notice, I believe one hour notice with full explanation as to circumstance would be appropriate. That one hour, and Torba would have known for a fact that Anglin was online at the time, would give Anglin some time to respond and get his affairs in order before deleting the post, but not create 24 hours of suspense in front of a lot of people. Perhaps even my suggestion is too lenient, but it is what I would have done in the same position. The punishment is simply warranted because Anglin is a guest on Torba's platform and if Torba asked that Anglin be the one to delete the post, refusing such a small request after such generosity was proffered is being a bad guest and should be treated as such.

Blogger VD September 05, 2017 6:28 AM  

I think it would be quite unfortunate if Gab or Torba punishes Anglin more than symbolically (if at all) at the behest of a third party.

I do too. They should have deleted his account as soon as he created it. I talked to Torba yesterday and that's what I advised.

If you know someone is an attention-seeking troublemaker, preemptively shut them down before they create the problems they are there to cause.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 05, 2017 6:33 AM  

Everything Anglin does makes sense if you consider two things: He has no sense of shame for things that warrant a sense of shame and he is simply seeking to maximize the attention he receives. If you understand these two things about him, all his actions make sens.

Blogger Ken Prescott September 05, 2017 6:43 AM  

There is no such thing as free speech. You must pay for every word you say.

Blogger Koanic September 05, 2017 7:33 AM  

Anglin agreed to take the post down himself. He's being reasonable, and Torba even more so - to a saintly degree.

So I'm no longer calling Anglin Alt-Retard.

I'm glad.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 05, 2017 8:16 AM  

Moved to easydns.com in 2005 and have never had a problem since.

Are you assuming Anglin didn't try EasyDNS? Maybe he didn't; I don't know the guy from Adam. Maybe he tried 5 US/EU-based registrars and then decided he'd rather complain than keep looking. I'd prefer that to be the case, because it would mean the rest of us can still find safe havens. But I've seen several hosting companies in the last few weeks shift drastically on this subject. I keep saying this: the rules just changed. Domain registration, which had been considered kind of a neutral Switzerland, isn't anymore, because the SJWs realized that's a chokepoint. If they can keep you from registering a domain, they can effectively keep your "brand" off the web regardless of whether you can get hosting and other services. You can't assume that your "safe" registrar is still safe until it gets the call registrars have been getting when Daily Stormer shows up at them, and doesn't blink.

Along the way, learn how to modify your hosts file so a DNS knock down won't affect you.

The issue isn't whether you can use DNS and lookup sites; it's whether the rest of the world can lookup your domain.

Also, learn to run a local DNS server on your home network. Do all three of those and you'll be able to make your own infrastructure.

Also not the issue. You can run all the DNS servers you want; you still need a registrar to point the world to your DNS servers.

But there ARE free-speech domain registrars.

Then we should be listing them, not just asserting that they exist. I don't know of any for sure, even though I'm in the business. I know a few I would have said were a month ago, but have turned out not to be. Please share any you can guarantee would register Daily Stormer -- not for Anglin's sake, but for the rest of us, because if there's a registrar that would take him, the rest of us could count on it.

Blogger Johnny September 05, 2017 8:17 AM  

The thing about freedom of speech (and academic openness) is that the pretension of it has to be maintained or people know they are being fed propaganada. Thus the problem for the authorities is to allow some freedom of speech but not too much. That is why you can bounce along on the edge and get by, some freedom but not too much.

And we are not about to beat the power structure. It has to beat itself with ineptness, and currently they are making a good faith effort in that direction.

Blogger SirGroggy September 05, 2017 9:12 AM  

Torba did the right thing. You have to choose your battles and live to fight another day.

Anonymous dog bytes September 05, 2017 11:00 AM  

Could simply rot13 all NSFW posts, and have users able to flag posts as NSFW,to produce an NSFW 'score'. To prevent gaming by SJWs, allow people to specify not just a minimum score above which NSFW content will remain in rot13 text, but also a maximum score - on a per user basis.

Create a browser add on which undoes the rot13, so that without it no NSFW content will be visible in clear text - to search bots etc. In that case, one is on no different a footing from legal adult sites.

Blogger RobertT September 05, 2017 11:05 AM  

I especially like his emphatic point this is EMPHATICALLY FAIR.

Blogger RobertT September 05, 2017 11:08 AM  

The problem is, once you start drawing lines, somebody else will draw them a little differently, and so on ad infinitum until nobody will recognize the original. Whisper something to a friend, have him pass it around a few times and ask the last guy what was whispered to him. Same mechanics in play.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 05, 2017 11:09 AM  

@114 Matthew Funk
"@112 Being unable to fulfill a promise due to exterior circumstance is different from willfully disregarding a promise. He is taking steps to be in a better position to fulfill that ideal. If I say I'll be home in 20 minutes, but get into a fender bender on the way home, it is not the same as saying I'll be home in 20 minutes and staying at the bar for an additional four hours. One is a lie, one is simply an inability to fulfill a promise that was intended to be kept."

The problem with your analogy is that you're skipping the part where, after getting home, you initially tried to hide the damage to the car, pretended that the accident never happened, and claimed that you just forgot to leave the bar, or something. An important omission, no?

Blogger S1AL September 05, 2017 11:16 AM  

"The problem with your analogy is that you're skipping the part where, after getting home, you initially tried to hide the damage to the car, pretended that the accident never happened, and claimed that you just forgot to leave the bar, or something. An important omission, no?"

You're gonna have a lot of trouble squaring that with the immediate public statement on the matter which is in the OP.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 05, 2017 11:21 AM  

@102 Unknown

So is it enough to worship the persons of the Self-Chosenites, or is veneration of secondary idols like the the lampshades and the soap mandatory under your religious belief system as well?

Anonymous praetorian's aggravated ulcer September 05, 2017 11:22 AM  

So I'm no longer calling Anglin Alt-Retard.

Anglin isn't a retard, and he's accomplished a lot more than Vox gives him credit for, especially w/ young men. A lot of this alt-retard stuff is intergenerational miscommunication and personal animus.

No endorsement; it's an observation. This fire fight is pointless: disavow once, if you must, and move on to real enemies.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 05, 2017 11:51 AM  

>We believe this effort was coordinated and planned.

Indeed, and it seems a few members of the hit squad were detailed to come here for follow-up attacks. 4GW isn't just roadside IEDs.


As to Free Speech, the practical value of it is preventing the chaos of a full-bore preference cascade. With free speech, the pendulum can swing back and forth around a stable point. With a preference cascade, if it's big enough the string breaks and society flies off into the weeds. Attention seeking whores like Anglin do not assist in the practical value of free speech, and letting them have a soap box is a bigger threat to the real value of free speech than stuffing a sock in their mouths.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 11:54 AM  

There are times when it's desirable to fight an impossible battle for the sake of accomplishing broader strategic objectives. I believe yesterday was such a time and that the right would collectively have been in a stronger position had Gab stood its ground.

Only time will tell.

Anonymous praetorian September 05, 2017 12:10 PM  

As to Free Speech

There are a huge number of levels to analyze free speech at, but there are two that matter right now: as a meme to push normies into the Alt-Right camp, which is probably the most effective issue we have right now, and as a civilizational base assumption in order to avoid violence, as Jordan Peterson discusses and advocates.

Posts like this, bringing in tactical autistim and personal animus, are not useful in moving people into the alt right; they serve only to divide, particularly intergenerationally.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 05, 2017 12:25 PM  

Could simply rot13 all NSFW posts

For certain values of "simply." Simple enough to do, but when you require people to install a browser plugin to read your data, you've already eliminated most of those you're trying to reach.

There are still plenty of ways to get information out to those who are seeking it, and that won't change. Usenet is still there; post your "hate speech" on Usenet and it'll even show up in Google's Groups archive. Or embed your message in images with steganography. There are lots of options for communicating with people already in the know, and that won't change.

But if you want to reach the normies, especially if you want to build a "brand" around your efforts, you currently need a normal web site, it has to have a domain name (not just an IP address), and it has to be searchable via the major search engines. That's just how it is for now.

Anonymous Jesse James September 05, 2017 12:57 PM  

>A lot of this alt-retard stuff is intergenerational miscommunication and personal animus.

Amen.

VD:
> You are incredibly stupid.

Wew lad. This has now become the level of discourse on here

I'll say it again, the day this blog is removed by the Jews at Google is the day the chickens come home to roost. Not saying I want it to happen, but the likelihood is high.

Anonymous dog bytes September 05, 2017 2:17 PM  

@Cail Corishev true, thinking about it, don't need browser add on. As long as the decryption is done client side, with java script, Web bots that don't run page java scripts will not see NSFW rot13ed posts.


The point about having a user select a personal maximum NSFW score, above which rot13ed posts are shown again, is to make SJW swarming of posts difficult - since for example posts that have been swarmed with NSFW up votes, above the user's upper threshold, could be shown to that user with red text, making it more visible rather than less.

Anonymous NZT September 05, 2017 2:26 PM  

I was never a regular DS reader, but I've traditionally found it to be pretty funny and shrewd. This is because

1) it's obviously kayfabe performance art in large part (the actual real Andrew Anglin does not actually advocate gassing anybody)
2) it's a form of aggressive free speech activism, which I do see value in
3) Anglin et al do have a pretty winning sense of humor, a strange mix of whimsical and savage

As I understand it, after the initial kerfuffle was cleared up Torba politely asked Anglin to remove the post and Anglin complied, recognizing that it was better for everyone that Gab not receive the Daily Stormer treatment at the current time. I'm glad things worked out that way. Anglin was more provocative and overdramatic than he needed to be in his initial response, but his complaining gave Torba a chance to show the seriousness of Gab's commitment to free speech.

I do think it would've been a disaster for Gab if they'd banned Anglin, especially if they'd banned him before he even posted anything controversial. Moderating comments on a private blog is one thing, but allowing oligopoly corporations to censor speech on de facto public commons is totally unacceptable. Social media companies need to be subject to the 1st and 4th amendments, with suspensions/bannings only permitted for actual illegality and subject to due process. "Start your own competing social media company" is not a realistic response.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 05, 2017 2:29 PM  

@164, I've wondered about that before. Maybe something a little more substantial than rot13, but the same idea: store the text in an encrypted format, and have a bit of javascript that decrypts it for the browser.

One issue: your text would no longer be searchable by search engines. (In theory, you could make it decrypt at the server for them, but then you're also making it easy for them to find/identify you again.) So visitors would have to find you some other way. Another issue: it wouldn't work without javascript enabled, but that's fairly rare anymore, and you could have a [noscript] tag that directs them to an alternative, non-web source.

It's not a terrible idea. It wouldn't solve this particular problem of already-identified, well-known "hate speech" sites being attacked by SJW swarms. It could be a way to get more info out there via "innocent" channels like pastebins and free blogs while forestalling identification, though.

Blogger tz September 05, 2017 4:56 PM  

I have no problem either with private censorship, but there has been a problem with private associate v.s. public accomodation since the Civil Rights act. (Government can't discriminate, but anyone else should be able to do or do not associate with anyone they choose).

Then there's contracts, and yes, I understand the difference between abstract. But at some point it becomes "did you expect the car to come with an engine and transmission?" or simply that words should mean things and promises ought to be kept when there is the ability to.

If Torba said "I reserve the right to arbitrarily and capriciously remove any user I don't like, and that is the only ToS" I would not have joined and I doubt many others would have done so. I don't think many would, as that is one of the worst aspects of Twitter/Facebook/Google/Apple, though they wrap it in "offensive" or "hateful". Or Torba's registrar. The point is not merely "free speech" but that the ToS was the actual rules of conduct.

Blogger tz September 05, 2017 5:07 PM  

@165 - No, the 1st/4th (or 2nd) amendments don't apply to companies. The evil is their fraud. If they claim to be G-rated, they shouldn't allow porn. If they claim to remove things advocating violence, then antifa should get the boot. They appear as "angels of light" while they are the agents of the devil.

I wouldn't criticize a social media that didn't pretend any balance and was Hillary central - or Bernie central. Or Trump central. Instead there are a set of rules which you follow, and get shadow banned anyway, or totally banned while others who do objectively worse things can spew their bile.

You can create a curated theatre, or a public square. But excepting the originally stated ground rules, you can't curate a public square.

Anglin is offensive but is effectively a canary. If he is preemptively or arbitrarily banned (without cause) than any user can be. He can be banned with cause, but I think he is too smart to do so.

Blogger VD September 05, 2017 6:38 PM  

I do think it would've been a disaster for Gab if they'd banned Anglin, especially if they'd banned him before he even posted anything controversial.

You're totally wrong. It wouldn't even slow down their rapid growth and would save Torba and crew considerable headaches.

You can be confident that Anglin is going to cause future headaches for Gab because he was not banned. That's his modus operandi.

If Torba said "I reserve the right to arbitrarily and capriciously remove any user I don't like, and that is the only ToS" I would not have joined and I doubt many others would have done so.

You might not have. Everyone else would have done so. Not one person in one thousand reads the TOS.

I'll say it again, the day this blog is removed by the Jews at Google is the day the chickens come home to roost. Not saying I want it to happen, but the likelihood is high.

Spare us the concern trolling. All these dark mutterings of people who like playing doomsayer trying to look smart. We've had this thing mirrored on multiple sites since 2006. We're WAY ahead of you and Anglin alike.

Blogger VD September 05, 2017 6:40 PM  

I believe yesterday was such a time and that the right would collectively have been in a stronger position had Gab stood its ground.

You're still wrong and since you obviously can't learn from being corrected, you're obviously stupid. It is not even remotely in the interest of the Right for Gab to be in the position of the Daily Stormer. If nothing else, that would have significantly retarded their development of the new features their users are calling for.

Blogger VD September 05, 2017 6:44 PM  

Wew lad. This has now become the level of discourse on here.

That's the price of growing site traffic. The average IQ of the commenters was always going to fall.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 05, 2017 7:13 PM  

Vox, I value your opinion but you're far from infallible. Neither of us knows for sure how this is all going to play out, but if the choice is for Gab to go the way of Daily Stormer or the way of Twitter, it would be better if it were the former.

I do sincerely hope that Gab has a better way forward than either of those two options.

Anonymous Jesse James September 05, 2017 8:23 PM  

>We've had this thing mirrored on multiple sites since 2006. We're WAY ahead of you and Anglin alike.

Backups are irrelevant when you're being hunted the way Anglin has been. He's attempted domains from half a dozen countries and counting. Domain registrar, hosting, DNS provider. The censorship opportunities are endless if one engages in wrongthink.

I'm still baffled at the fact we're discussing the differences in ideological minutiae. Meanwhile the left has been engaging in the most unprecedented censorship in internet history. You'd think a major critic of SJWs would be all over this amazing opportunity.

But no. Instead the new right is rooting on the corporate monopolies as a (perceived) competitor gets repeatedly shoah'd from the interwebs. The only debate is whether or not the man should be allowed to exist online at all, much less own his own website.

Anonymous SumDood September 05, 2017 8:34 PM  

OT sorry if it's a duplicate...

Anonymous Conservative's blog is unavailable. Says "access denied"

Anonymous Smart people succumb to marketing faster than dumb people. That's why P90X is $140 September 06, 2017 1:53 AM  

VD wrote:But it surely doesn't help when a man who has long exercised free speech (and hate speech) on private platforms begins to strongly advocate for the right of (((corporate censorship))).

Begins? I have ALWAYS strongly advocated for the right of private censorship. The rules here have made that clear since 2003.

You are incredibly stupid.

Understood. And if Gab can't post something that is mildly offensive and well within the bounds of legality, then Gab has no future. Better to fight it and go out with a bang. Anglin might have forced Gab to make this choice sooner rather than later, but this was coming regardless of Anglin. This isn't just about one man.

Idiots like you always fail because you can't tell the difference between a winnable fight and an unwinnable one. That's why Torba should have done what I recommended and kicked Anglin off the site as soon as he joined it.

Attention-seekers like Anglin will always bring ruin in their wake to everyone around them. It's what they do.


Let us never forget: VD couldn't shepherd a multi-button mouse he designed into continued production, or even maintain the domain name.

Perhaps he isn't qualified to lecture people. Or perhaps he's uniquely qualified to lecture people into failing gracefully to their own benefit.

Blogger peppermint88 September 06, 2017 3:25 AM  

Rather than levels of NSFW, categories. Porn, hatespeech, haram, antisocial or whatever the chinese version is, and so on, and have people tag their posts as potentially against their community's standards and let others tag them when they're against other communities' standards. This is actually the only workable approach for an international site, but it could be too complicated.

Blogger peppermint88 September 06, 2017 3:27 AM  

@175 who would want a mouse with more than one button? For some whimsical shooter where weapons have more than one firing mode? Just bind a key for the special modes.

Anonymous Mr. Rational September 07, 2017 1:11 PM  

@167 rot13 has the paradoxical effect of making things MORE searchable, if you're specifically looking for shpx instead of the vulgar English equivalent.

Javascript could just as easily rot13 the contents of your search box.

Blogger Paulie Boy September 08, 2017 12:15 AM  

And your hero Vox is best buds with a homo that publicly glorifies pedophilia.

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