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Wednesday, September 13, 2017

Legal Legion update

There have been a number of developments on the defamation front. First, a member of the Legal Legion of Evil has filed the petition in Travis County and the county clerk has approved the filing. Today a hearing will be scheduled, at which we will seek to be provided with the identity of 14 individuals presently identified only by username, and ask to depose a representative of Gab concerning matters related to the identity of said individuals.

According to other members of the Legal Legion who have been reviewing activity at Gab, there have been a considerable number of additional defamatory attacks, directed at me as well as at others, and we will be amending the petition accordingly to add additional examples and usernames until the hearing actually takes place.

Now that we have actually gone through the process, it is evident that Gab's recommended path of "get a court order" is simply not viable for the average individual who doesn't have lawyers and paralegals at his immediate disposal. The process is simply too expensive for most people; the court filing alone is over $300.

As one individual has already discovered, it is much easier and more cost-effective to simply contact the Australian registrar, Asia Registry, at abuse@asiaregistry.com. Unfortunately, rather than address the individual's concerns, news that the abuse on his site was being reported led Andrew Torba to publicly threaten a campaign of harassment of the gentleman concerned.

Andrew TorbaPRO · @a
If our registrar requires us to remove something again we will publish it here and let everyone know that you whined to them because someone hurt your feelings with mean words on the internet.

However, in Australia, defamation is both a civil and a criminal offense, and Asia Registry's terms of service say a website owner must ensure that the website, "is not comprised or is not used for any unlawful purpose or activity."

So, if you have reason to believe you have been defamed on Gab, you can send me the link to the defamatory Gab post along with your real name and the username of the offender with the subject LL-ASIA. I will pass your email along to a member of the Legal Legion of Evil, who will review it and decide if it rises to the level of defamation, defamation per se, or criminal defamation according to Australian standards. If, in his opinion, it does, you will then be provided with an appropriate template that can be sent to the woman responsible for handling abuse-related complaints along with her email address.

Again, I will point out that it is not my intent to harm Gab. We are not requesting any damages from Gab and we do not anticipate any further legal action against them once we obtain the requested information about the parties responsible. As a number of VFM and Dread Ilk have noted, I am handling Gab with kid gloves, in part because they are young and inexperienced and they do not appear be receiving appropriate legal counsel. But I have made it very, very clear that the defamatory attacks on me are going to be removed, one way or another, and as always, I am not bluffing.

At this point, it should be clear to everyone that the Legal Legion of Evil is real. As it happens, the LLoE has over 200 years of collective experience practicing the law in various states in a surprisingly wide range of specialties. Including defamation.

I understand that not everyone is happy with my actions, and I understand that a few of my supporters are extremely unhappy with them. To them, I would merely point out that this is a problem Gab was always going to face. I first warned Andrew of Gab's need for some form of moderation back in early November 2016. And contra the opinions of the free speech purists, extortion, treason, fraud, defamation, and death threats are not free speech, as the court process should suffice to make abundantly clear.

I am not at all unfamiliar with the way in which some individuals simply refuse to take the easy and obvious way out. I once spent three years to resolve a situation that could have been resolved, at vastly less expense, by sending me a simple one-paragraph letter. I hope it won't take three years to resolve this one, but if it does, that possibility doesn't bother me at all. I've been through it before, and if I have to, I will go through it again.

Labels: ,

314 Comments:

1 – 200 of 314 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Looking Glass September 13, 2017 8:06 AM  

One should look closely & fix game-breaking bugs. I've seen more than a few MMOs go down to them because the Devs either couldn't or wouldn't solve an issue and it destroyed all Risk vs Reward and progression in the game.

Same princple applies to all other products.

Anonymous Critically Bent September 13, 2017 8:11 AM  

The First Amendment has never protected ALL speech.

Never.

Torba is falling into the classic scientist/techie fallacy of thinking that since he is so smart in his field of specialty, he must be smart about everything else.

As a high school teacher, I've repeatedly witnessed the melting down of smart students who struggled with an academic subject for the first time in their lives. They always start in a state of denial and blaming everyone but themselves. They couldn't possibly not get it. They couldn't possibly have not worked hard enough. It's the teacher's fault or the book's fault or the way the test questions were worded or...

Anything not to have to face the fact that they have to work hard at something just like all the peons they've always thought themselves superior to.

Here's hoping that Torba and Gab get through that stage as fast as possible.

They are lucky to have as merciful a teacher as VD is being. Someone else with more actual evil intent could financially wreck them over these issues.

Blogger Johnny September 13, 2017 8:13 AM  

I had mixed feelings about what you are doing and at first thought it unwise. Now it seems apparent that Gab has got to work within the legal framework and if you can force compliance than so can anybody else. Better to work it out now than in the future when the problem could be on a much grander scale. If you can get a successful legal action now and Andrew does not see the light, then perhaps he should not be a CEO.

Blogger Salt September 13, 2017 8:18 AM  

the court filing alone is over $300

Like the Poll Tax, it keeps the little people out.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:23 AM  

I had mixed feelings about what you are doing and at first thought it unwise. Now it seems apparent that Gab has got to work within the legal framework and if you can force compliance than so can anybody else.

I always thought this was obvious, but apparently it was not. I should have tried to explain it more clearly. Gab is actually far more at risk than I had originally thought, because their current strategy and position is forcing them to try to fight a war on three or four fronts simultaneously.

They simply don't have the resources, the leadership, or the stamina for that.

Blogger DeploraBard September 13, 2017 8:27 AM  

What happens after you ID them?

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:34 AM  

What happens after you ID them?

We pursue them in their various jurisdictions. There are a broad range of possible measures at that point, such as if an individual responsible cannot be identified, does not respond, or cannot be reached, but I don't wish to wander too far into those fields at this point.

Anonymous Kat September 13, 2017 8:35 AM  

Salt - that's the part I find most infuriating. Say a single income traditional family offends a stormfag and suddenly find themselves slandered as the vilest of sexual deviants. We already know that CPS can easily be a political weapon. Talk about being anti-fragile all you want - it's hard to take on the state.

Torba is committing an injustice when he permits speech that could materially harm the righteous and even more so when he makes justice come at a financial price.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 8:36 AM  

Even my sister's underage (at the time) friend was once dragged to the police station for internet defamation of a public figure. That part should be easy.

Anonymous Rhino September 13, 2017 8:38 AM  

"Again, I will point out that it is not my intent to harm Gab."

*Proceeds to do exactly the most harmful possible thing to Gab*

Blogger Mastermind September 13, 2017 8:39 AM  

I don't understand why you think "someone would have done it eventually" is supposed to provide some sort of absolution. It wouldn't excuse any other offense. And I've long lost count of the number of people I've seen call you a pedophile as a result of this debacle, and most of them weren't even on gab. It's a war nobody can win, and will damage you a lot more than it damages your detractor.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:39 AM  

*Proceeds to do exactly the most harmful possible thing to Gab*

You underestimate me. Significantly.

Blogger dh September 13, 2017 8:41 AM  

I have a lot of respect for the "fight it all the way" mentality. I have had a bench trial for a traffic citations on numerous occasions, just so I can examine a police officer under oath. I have fought automated speed camera tickets, etc. Business litigation comes with being involved in business at a certain level.

Gab has a real risk of really screwing up their operation by losing their "safe harbor" status.

Blogger Mastermind September 13, 2017 8:41 AM  

Salt wrote:he court filing alone is over $300

Like the Poll Tax, it keeps the little people out.


I had a friend who was frivolously sued for defamation. The guy suing didn't have to pay anything because you can file as a pauper and he was a loser with no real income. My friend wasted thousands of dollars on a lawyer defending himself (suit got thrown out). It's actually the poor who can abuse defamation law the easiest.

Anonymous Wooly September 13, 2017 8:41 AM  

OT: Vox, I just bought the Kindle version of TIA. I also sprung for the audible version, but I cannot find how to listen to it at Amazon. I can read the Kindle Cloud Reader version on my PC, but I'd also like to listen to the narrated version, and I don't know how.

Thanks for the free novels, by the way. I need this book. I'm friends with a superintelligent person, who is an evangelical atheist. I told him when we met, my first day at work, when he asked me, "Are you a believer?", "Yes." He said "Oh, we're going to have some really good debates." I said, "No, we're not. My silver tongue will never convince you that the Bible is true, and inspired by God. Your silver tongue will never convince me it's not." He goads me all the time, knowing what I believe. I don't reciprocate. He quotes Marilyn Manson lyrics to try and poke me. I just shake my head. I just love him, actively. "Use words, if necessary..." -- St. Francis.

I need this book, Vox, so I bought it. This guy really is a superintelligent man. He has a great depth of knowledge, in a great many fields. He also thinks he's going to die soon, because he has MS. And a brain tumor. And two daughters, 10 and 12, who both know how to track game and have taken out a buck each, with rifles. And he has seizures that break his feet bones, weekly.

And he's an evangelical atheist. If he knows you're a Christian, and believe, he pounces. He thinks he's loving you by using what he thinks are his last days to get you to NOT believe any more.

So I think I need this book, so I bought it.

Blogger Shimshon September 13, 2017 8:42 AM  

The Gab principles are taking a very serious risk. This kind of thing could spiral out of their (perceived) control very fast.

Blogger Shimshon September 13, 2017 8:43 AM  

I think a better name for the LLoE is the Legion of Pure Evil.

Anonymous Basket of Deplorables September 13, 2017 8:43 AM  

I for one am glad that Gab is undergoing this experience at the hands of someone who wants to save Gab, as opposed to later going through it with someone actively trying to destroy them. It seems readily apparent that they could easily be completely destroyed at the hands of someone who wanted Gab to no longer exist, as opposed to having and enforcing a ToS that complied with legal requirements.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 8:43 AM  

We don't own the rights to TIA, and the owner wouldn't sell them. So, can't help you there.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:46 AM  

I don't understand why you think "someone would have done it eventually" is supposed to provide some sort of absolution. It wouldn't excuse any other offense. And I've long lost count of the number of people I've seen call you a pedophile as a result of this debacle, and most of them weren't even on gab. It's a war nobody can win, and will damage you a lot more than it damages your detractor.

I'm not asking for any absolution. I'm telling those of you who can't grasp the obvious that what is happening was absolutely going to happen sooner or later, so there is no point in getting your Swastika Panties in a bunch over it.

You may have lost count, but the LLoE hasn't. We'll hunt them down. We won't get all of them, but as Napoleon knew, you don't need to shoot all the admirals to provide a salutary lesson. I don't think you have any idea how much damage we can mete out. I mean, we haven't even begun to get started. This is still the information-gathering phase.

Anonymous boilerpl8 September 13, 2017 8:47 AM  

"Gab was always going to face this problem" doesn't hold water. It smacks of a grifter's justification for his actions: "They were so stupid, someone was going to take them. Might as well be me". You are of course correct on the matter of free speech, but the public butthurt and catfight with both the stormers and Torba was embarrassing in the extreme. "You have ten minutes to delet this" is not going to evoke a productive response from the stormer/channer crowd, and the impression that was broadly left was that your ego made you step on your dick in public. Threatening legal action for internet shitposting in an alt-right space was terrible optics. Doing so immediately after Torba took hits from the registrar issue was terrible timing. The public catfight and threats of releasing emails publicly was juvenile.

You are one of the top philosophers on our side, and your work of putting solid underpinnings to the alt-right movement is of enormous importance. Your debate with Anglin showed that your relations need not be antagonistic. The stormers are an energetic force who are broadly on your side. Don't fight them, mold them.

Anonymous Wooly September 13, 2017 8:51 AM  

I'm no Ravi Zacharias. I'm no C.S. Lewis.

Anonymous Adam September 13, 2017 8:51 AM  

I wonder when the penny drops for Torba and he realizes just how much of a favor that Vox is doing for him, if he's going to be able to handle that after his very public emotional and immature reactions thus far.

Anonymous a_peraspera September 13, 2017 8:52 AM  

This shows that a strong Code of Conduct at Gab is needed.

Anonymous OldMel September 13, 2017 8:52 AM  

Like the Poll Tax, it keeps the little people out.

Torba even explained this in his Periscope. Basically "we aren't lawyers so we won't make judgments about defamation, and oh by the way it's prohibitively expensive for most people to enforce the law on this, so you're out of luck. lol"

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:55 AM  

"You have ten minutes to delet this" is not going to evoke a productive response from the stormer/channer crowd.

Actually, he did delete it. And then, after a second guy imitated him, he went back and put it back in again. So, it did work, I just gave him too much time.

the impression that was broadly left was that your ego made you step on your dick in public.

I don't care. Not in the slightest.


Threatening legal action for internet shitposting in an alt-right space was terrible optics.

I was giving them fair warning, as has been my custom. I won't make that mistake again. In the future, don't cry should I lower the boom without warning.

Doing so immediately after Torba took hits from the registrar issue was terrible timing.

I don't care. Not my problem. If he doesn't care about my being defamed, why should I give a damn about his problems with the registrar. Which, I note, are likely to get a lot worse in the near future, thanks to the way he has handled this.

The public catfight and threats of releasing emails publicly was juvenile.

It was the only way to disprove the false narrative that Utsav attempted to establish about the calls and emails.

Anonymous Sandy September 13, 2017 8:55 AM  

If Torba had any sense he would move all hosting to a country that does not give a shit about one foreigner defaming another online. I have read that Hotwheels set up 8chan in the Phillipines for this reason.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 13, 2017 8:55 AM  

Are people trolling or dense when all Vox is doing is serving Gab with a subpoena in the near future, which is exactly the method Torba said to do? This isn't hard, but trolls can feed off anything.

Blogger FALPhil September 13, 2017 8:56 AM  

The stormers are an energetic force who are broadly on your side. Don't fight them, mold them.

You still don't get it.

Blogger Freeholder September 13, 2017 8:57 AM  

This is why I'm not on the front lines yet, nor a member of the VFM. I am still fragile (nasty divorce means every action is scrutinized, probably 2-3 more years until I am in a safe spot). GAB thought they were anti-fragile and VD is doing them a HUGE favor by pointing that out with someone who can be negotiated with and has reasonable demands. The true enemy will not stop and will utterly destroy someone who thought they were anti-fragile when it turns out they were fragile.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:58 AM  

The stormers are an energetic force who are broadly on your side. Don't fight them, mold them.

Wild dogs need to be brought to heel before they are of any use. I think you will find that this whole thing with Gab will ultimately be very productive for them. Some of them are beginning to learn that there is a legitimate connection between the online world and the real world.

Blogger Hrodgar September 13, 2017 8:58 AM  

I think I'm with Zippy the internet clown on this one:

“Free speech and limited free speech are intrinsically dishonest phrases, because they treat the question of what restrictions there ought to be on speech as if it were a question of whether there ought to be restrictions on speech."

Anonymous Looking Glass September 13, 2017 8:59 AM  

It also should be noted that Gab doesn't need too advanced of a system to deal with the situation. They already nuke any of the Pro-Pedos that show up. A specific part of the Report function and a logic sheet for Defamation will solve most of the problem. They don't need to actively monitor all text like the big players do.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 8:59 AM  

If Torba had any sense he would move all hosting to a country that does not give a shit about one foreigner defaming another online.

The hosting isn't really the issue here. It's a structural weakness, but it wouldn't help Gab with regards to the petition.

Blogger FALPhil September 13, 2017 9:00 AM  

VD is doing them a HUGE favor by pointing that out with someone who can be negotiated with and has reasonable demands

This.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 9:01 AM  

A specific part of the Report function and a logic sheet for Defamation will solve most of the problem.

Which is similar to what I suggested to Andrew last November. However, as I said, there are deeper issues involved here. I think the epic lunacy of Gab's current strategy is going to become readily apparent to everyone before too long.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 9:02 AM  

Yep. Our generation learned it, and the next one will too. I couldn't BELIEVE it when I saw several individuals end up in court for two completely different libel cases. I thought it was something that happens "out there", not in my immediate circle. It was all part of growing up, and learning how things are done in the real world. I was SUPER SUPER mad at the time too.

Anonymous CrystalBlue September 13, 2017 9:02 AM  

DeploraBard wrote:What happens after you ID them?
You nuke them from orbit, of course. It's the only way to be sure.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 9:07 AM  

I know exactly how it feels like to be the generation without power, feeling that internet shitposting is the only influence you have. And then see even that taken from you (along with your money). I know every feeling of what they are going through.

Anonymous Sandy September 13, 2017 9:07 AM  

The hosting isn't really the issue here. It's a structural weakness, but it wouldn't help Gab with regards to the petition.

Not with this petition but in future you would be unable to seek legal redress the same way.

What is the structural weakness? All I see is that Torba failed to do his due dilligence with regards to the law of his host country.

Unless you mean the structural weakness is that an umoderated arena for free speech is inherently chaotic and potentially unpleasant for some users and this is going to scare away a lot of users/potential users?

On the flipside there are a lot of people who want a no holds barred arena to say what they like and Torba is merely providing what they want. Some of these people will be content with nothing less.

Anonymous JamesV September 13, 2017 9:08 AM  

A few thoughts -
Given Torba's actions and attitude I'm very glad I didn't support Gab from the start. Contrast this to InfoGalactic. I've not seen the IG team take any actions that makes me disappointed to be an OG. VD has credibility with me based on this and I'm considering supporting Voxiversity now too. At this point I wouldn't support any other Torba projects.

I have a Gab account but I'm not going to use it. Why would I open myself up to begin called a pedophile and have no reasonable recourse available to me to rectify the situation.

VD has had conversations with the Gab folks and knows something about them to know what sort of approach to take. I don't have insight to know if they are misguided or something else. Given what I've stated above I have to take the more cautious approach and assume their intentions are worse than misguided.

TL,DR: Gab and the Gab team are just another Google or Twitter as far as I'm concerned.


Blogger VD September 13, 2017 9:08 AM  

"oh by the way it's prohibitively expensive for most people to enforce the law on this, so you're out of luck. lol"

I didn't know that. That's a matter of some concern, as it indicates that he's not even beginning to take this seriously, and may not have so much as spoken to a Texas attorney about the situation. I said he's not ready for prime time, but it may be worse than I'd thought.

Anonymous Sandy September 13, 2017 9:09 AM  

I misread you and thought you were saying there was a separate structural weakness aside from hosting.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 9:10 AM  

Not with this petition but in future you would be unable to seek legal redress the same way.

True. That's exactly what I meant, the free method of doing so would be barred to people. I didn't think of it as "legal redress", but that's just semantics.

Anonymous boilerpl8 September 13, 2017 9:13 AM  

I was giving them fair warning, as has been my custom. I won't make that mistake again. In the future, don't cry should I lower the boom without warning.

A far superior strategy, for the same reason hostage rescue teams make dynamic entry with speed, overwhelming force, strobes, and flashbang grenades. By the time they realized you're moving against them, you should have their balls in one hand and a knife to their throat. "When you have to shoot, shoot! Don't talk."

Wild dogs need to be brought to heel before they are of any use. I think you will find that this whole thing with Gab will ultimately be very productive for them. Some of them are beginning to learn that there is a legitimate connection between the online world and the real world.

I hope you are correct. The results will be instructive in either case.

Anonymous CrystalBlue September 13, 2017 9:14 AM  

boilerpl8 wrote:Threatening legal action for internet shitposting in an alt-right space was terrible optics.
If you take a dump in our community swimming pool, and invite all of your friends to take a dump in our community swimming pool, we're going to kick you out and try to make you pay for the clean up.

So it may be "terrible optics" (but that's in the eye of the beholder), but it's excellent hygiene.

Anonymous Poli_Mis September 13, 2017 9:15 AM  

Forgive me if this has already been addressed but I thought if one has a title of CEO, then by definition there has to be a board of directors. Either Torba is playing 'dressup like a grownup' with his choice of fancy title, or they have the most impotent and stupid directors and should all be unseated.

Blogger seeingsights September 13, 2017 9:16 AM  

Assorted points:

It seems that Twitter errs in one way, by blocking communication that does not run afoul of US law, while Gab errs in the opposite way, by not blocking communication that does run afoul of US law.

I'm a member of a large online discussion list and that list's term of service is clear that violation of US law is not allowed. That policy is working fine--the discussions are robust and sometimes even rough.

It seems that the founders of Gab have (admirably) libertarian goals. They don't want to censor like Twitter does. They think the users will sort things out by themselves--like an invisible hand process: if a user doesn't like someone's comments, the user can block them.

Blogger S1AL September 13, 2017 9:20 AM  

"Forgive me if this has already been addressed but I thought if one has a title of CEO, then by definition there has to be a board of directors."

This is incorrect. Most smaller companies, however, just use "president" or "owner".

Anonymous Rhino September 13, 2017 9:20 AM  

I'm very excited about the prospect of a Trust and Safety Committee being instituted at Gab. They need to catch up to twitter.

Blogger Some Guy September 13, 2017 9:23 AM  

The problem appears to be that no one at Gab has any clue how to negotiate.

Anonymous Faceless September 13, 2017 9:23 AM  

Didn't 8chan have a problem with one of these 2-letter country code TLDs as well? If Gab wants to be under the full protection of people sympathetic to the First Amendment, it would have been better to go with a .net or .com domain name and a US-based registrar.

Anonymous Naga September 13, 2017 9:24 AM  

What is the proper defense for a poor person that may be sued at any moment? Just bury their money in the yard someplace? Bitcoin? Monero?

Blogger Shimshon September 13, 2017 9:26 AM  

It's not just the hosting service or registrar. The company is incorporated in Texas. While Torba is standing on principle, he does want to make money.

Blogger S1AL September 13, 2017 9:26 AM  

"What is the proper defense for a poor person that may be sued at any moment?"

Don't engage in civil or criminal defamatory speech?

In case you weren't paying attention, the legal process is complicated and expensive. People aren't going to go that route for giggles. Don't give them a reason to do so.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 13, 2017 9:27 AM  

i think it's hilarious how certain the Clown Executives @ Gab are that the Legal Legion of Evil does NOT exist.

*two* ( at least ) of Castalia's authors are bar certified lawyers. that means they're already on Vox's payroll and have a business relationship with him.

and that's assuming that Vox has no corp lawyers on retainer.

and Gorba / Utsov are CERTAIN that LLoE doesn't exist? or that, even if it does, there will be no consequences for distributing slander?

hotay.

sounds to me like "Hold my beer and watch this" style management.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 9:29 AM  

Many of us have been a lil' punk at one time or another. This is the way (the only way, really) you learn about respect.

Some, of course, always remain punks.

Blogger Matt September 13, 2017 9:30 AM  

He has always struck me as a little bit smarmy, feminine, and cunty, but I did not expect Torba to go full retard.

Anonymous Dan September 13, 2017 9:34 AM  

With Trump going soft on immigration, shouldn't that be a higher focus right now?

Anonymous Naga September 13, 2017 9:40 AM  

"Don't engage in civil or criminal defamatory speech?"

I don't know what that is. I don't know if anything I said was so terrible. I'm in no position to defend against such a thing, even if it's made up.

Blogger OGRE September 13, 2017 9:41 AM  

Naga wrote:What is the proper defense for a poor person that may be sued at any moment? Just bury their money in the yard someplace? Bitcoin? Monero?

Poor people rarely get sued because they are whats known as "judgment proof." Most plaintiffs won't pursue a claim if the defendant has no income or assets from which the judgment can be satisfied, no matter how strong the underlying claim might be. (And lawyers are even more resistant to pursuing such suits.) Why spend the time, money, and energy fighting in the courts if there is no chance of a financial recovery even if successful?

This doesn't apply when the relief sought is injunctive (having the court order the defendant to do a particular task). In which case the poor person who can't afford a lawyer is on his own or must seek help from legal aid or find an attorney willing to work pro bono.

Blogger wrf3 September 13, 2017 9:44 AM  

Dan wrote:With Trump going soft on immigration, shouldn't that be a higher focus right now?
Higher focus for whom? Vox is going to clean up what Vox can clean up. Picking up trash on the sidewalk as I walk my dog is just as important as cleaning up after Irma.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 13, 2017 9:45 AM  

"Anonymous boilerpl8 September 13, 2017 8:47 AM
... The stormers are an energetic force who are broadly on your side. Don't fight them, mold them."



He is molding them just like he's molding Gab.

Your problem, you have no idea what love actually is. Love isn't all feel goodz all the time. Love is doing what is in the other person's best interests even if they don't like it. Most especially when they don't like it. They will thank you later.

Parents that fail to discipline their children do not love their children. Pain now, life later. No pain now and death later. It is that simple. If GenX can teach any one thing to the following generations it would be a blessing to be able to get that one lesson across.

Anonymous Unk Nown September 13, 2017 9:47 AM  

Vox: As one individual has already discovered, it is much easier and more cost-effective to simply contact the Australian registrar, Asia Registry, at abuse@asiaregistry.com. Unfortunately, rather than address the individual's concerns, news that the abuse on his site was being reported led Andrew Torba to publicly threaten a campaign of harassment of the gentleman concerned.

Vox is the one who reported Gab.ai to Asia Registry?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 13, 2017 9:48 AM  

I've heard a lot of people complain about the optics of the situation, saying that Vox has lost a lot of credibility.

I say that Torba sided with Anglin against Vox. It's that simple. Like a cuckservative, Torba appears to be more concerned with dying on the hill based on his principles, even if it means siding with Gamma-Nazi-LARPing-Satanists, rather than address very real and serious legal and moral issues with his website.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 9:49 AM  

Vox's brand has for decades been one thing: Winning. It's completely insane to think this HURTS his brand.

Anonymous johnc September 13, 2017 9:55 AM  

However, in Australia, defamation is both a civil and a criminal offense, and Asia Registry's terms of service say a website owner must ensure that the website, "is not comprised or is not used for any unlawful purpose or activity."

Ohh boy. They better find a different registrar then because hate speech is illegal in Australia, including criticizing Islam and gay marriage.

there have been a considerable number of additional defamatory attacks, directed at me

I've noticed some on YouTube as well.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 13, 2017 9:56 AM  

"➤ Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 13, 2017 9:27 AM
i think it's hilarious how certain the Clown Executives @ Gab are that the Legal Legion of Evil does NOT exist.

*two* ( at least ) of Castalia's authors are bar certified lawyers. that means they're already on Vox's payroll and have a business relationship with him.

and that's assuming that Vox has no corp lawyers on retainer.

and Gorba / Utsov are CERTAIN that LLoE doesn't exist? or that, even if it does, there will be no consequences for distributing slander?
...
"



Stories of business related legal victories are on this very blog. It's public knowledge But the actors involved here did zero due diligence before doing exactly what their emotions told them to do.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 9:58 AM  

"What is the proper defense for a poor person that may be sued at any moment?"

Apologize and delete the post. In Texas, they HAVE to give you this option under the Defamation Mitigation Act.

*two* ( at least ) of Castalia's authors are bar certified lawyers. that means they're already on Vox's payroll and have a business relationship with him.

None of our authors are involved with the LLoE.

that's assuming that Vox has no corp lawyers on retainer.

My corporate lawyer is not on the LLoE. He is a director and the head of legal for a billion-dollar company. I was his first-ever client many years ago.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 9:59 AM  

Vox is the one who reported Gab.ai to Asia Registry?

I was neither the first person nor the second person to do so. I have not reported anything to any registry, nor have the LLoE done so yet.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 9:59 AM  

They obviously think that Vox is just writing complete fiction and none of what he says is true. They think that Vox expects them to fold before the story actually realizes in something, like a phone call from the court officer. Then they'll just say, "see, we knew he was a con artist, because we're good businessmen. Invest in Gab. We've got your back."

The bubble will collapse very soon, and it will be interesting to see how they react.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 10:01 AM  

I've heard a lot of people complain about the optics of the situation, saying that Vox has lost a lot of credibility.

It's not over yet. It's not even close to being over. And as for credibility, I'm not the one who failed to do what I said I would do.

Blogger Jimmy The Freak September 13, 2017 10:02 AM  

The massive hole in the thinking of the Gab team is the "If you don't like what someone says, just mute them." That is fine for mundane sperging or whatever. However; defamatory statements are defamatory even if you don't see them. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean millions of other people can't see them. In fact, not seeing them makes the potential damage all the greater.

Anonymous Nunya Bidness September 13, 2017 10:15 AM  

Even the Zman has lost his mind over this. He's throwing personal insults at Vox, accusing him of hiring Democrat attorneys and deliberately filing in a liberal court. Jeez.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 13, 2017 10:16 AM  

It seems to me that Gab's pushong back to protect identity is right and that Vox's getting court order is also right.
My problem is understanding Gab's inability to understand that seeking their own legal review of a claim and reach a consensus is not contra free speech when, in actuallity, it is a defense of such speech for all other responsible clients.

I wonder how long defaming Torba's close family members in Gab would stay undeleted.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 13, 2017 10:19 AM  

VD September 13, 2017 9:58 AM
None of our authors are involved with the LLoE.



not my point.

what i was saying was, that EVEN IF you stipulate to the Gab hypothesis that there are *no* lawyers / paralegals volunteering to work with you,

the assumption that there will not be / cannot be any legal fallout from this is just asinine stupidity.

Anonymous Rum Raisin September 13, 2017 10:23 AM  

I've heard a lot of people complain about the optics of the situation, saying that Vox has lost a lot of credibility.

Projection. They don't like what Vox is doing, and they assume that reflects popular opinion.

So far, the fall out for Vox consists of: losing 0.3% of his followers on Twitter, raising a decent chunk of money for Voxiversity, and his pageviews and book sales are up.

I say that Torba sided with Anglin against Vox. It's that simple. Like a cuckservative, Torba appears to be more concerned with dying on the hill based on his principles, even if it means siding with Gamma-Nazi-LARPing-Satanists, rather than address very real and serious legal and moral issues with his website.

Suicide-by-ideal.

Maybe it's broken, but notice that the "progress this month" widget on Gab has been stuck at 27.5% since this dust up started. I suspect they're experiencing some financial blowback from their public meltdown.

I canceled my Gab subscription after Torba and Utsav publicly went off on Vox, and so did the friends who joined and supported Gab on my recommendation. The revelation that Gab doesn't have an effective process to deal with defamation was worrying enough, but Torba's sneering "you're a whiner who can't handle mean words, lol" response is even worse.

Torba spends a lot of effort cultivating an image of a homespun down-to-earth one-of-the-people kind of guy as Gab's CEO, but he's destroyed that by referring to Gab users with legitimate complaints as "whiners" and threatening to publicly ridicule them and potentially expose them to harassment. To my knowledge, even Twitter's CEO doesn't do that.

Blogger modsquad September 13, 2017 10:29 AM  

The reason the mafia has existed for centuries is because they serve a purpose for the power structure above them. They can be hired to do the dirty work that politicians and priests can't be caught doing. Gab seems a similar structure to Twitter. They're a wildcard intended as an outlet to attack those that the "respected" Twitter can't allow.

Blogger modsquad September 13, 2017 10:32 AM  

The mafia will always exist because they serve a purpose for the powers above them. Politicians and priests can't be caught killing their enemies directly, so they have a middleman with guns to fill that role.

Gab seems to be filling a similar role, keeping the crimes at arms length away from Twitter.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 10:36 AM  

seeingsights

I'm a member of a large online discussion list and that list's term of service is clear that violation of US law is not allowed. That policy is working fine--the discussions are robust and sometimes even rough.

Listserves are walled gardens. Not just anyone gets to participate, there is always modding, people can be tossed off of the list. So a selected group can have pretty free speech, if they all have self control. It's Libertopian inside but has high walls keeping out stupidly destructive people. The listserve model is like a co-op, not a business chain.

It seems that the founders of Gab have (admirably) libertarian goals. They don't want to censor like Twitter does. They think the users will sort things out by themselves--like an invisible hand process: if a user doesn't like someone's comments, the user can block them.

That's like using a killfile on a listserve; "I can't hear you!". But there's always some moderation authority to appeal to if someone gets really obnoxious. Vox is demonstrating what that might look like for Gab, and also showing that some form of moderation must exist.

LIbertarians always overestimate people. If anyone had told Andrew Torba last November that Gab could be overrun by alt-Retard Nazi wannabes who would then drive out the normal people I bet he would not have believed it.

Blogger SemiSpook37 September 13, 2017 10:43 AM  

JaimeInTexas wrote:It seems to me that Gab's pushing back to protect identity is right and that Vox's getting court order is also right.

My problem is understanding Gab's inability to understand that seeking their own legal review of a claim and reach a consensus is not contra free speech when, in actuality, it is a defense of such speech for all other responsible clients.


This is where I'm at, or at least where I was initially in all of this. VD is right to be calling for the identities of his alleged assailants, while Gab is right that VD needs to go through the appropriate legal process to essentially force Gab to produce said identities.

Where Torba and Utsav lost me was the posturing, and I think that the Stormpoopers have definitely influenced their decision to do so for whatever reason. I don't understand why they felt the need to do so in the first place. I don't think that what VD asked for was unreasonable, and as he's mentioned numerous times in numerous places, he's only focused on the violators, not the hosts.

I think the fundamental disconnect here is that Torba doesn't seem to understand that freedom of speech (regardless of the legality of said speech) does not include freedom from consequences of what was said, and VD is not a governmental entity of any sort. He's not trying to restrict anyone from their ability to speak; he's trying to rightfully identify and prosecute those people that think it's okay to abuse their ability to speak freely by libel/slander/defamation/etc.

Again, if someone's going to be a smart ass, they need to understand that in doing so, there are consequences to those actions of being a smart ass. Connections between endpoints, even on the internet, do not just magically propagate through an ether. That keyboard doesn't protect you from the consequences of your actions.

It still amazes me that such stupidity isn't inherently painful. My head hurts just seeing 90-95% of this stuff...

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 10:44 AM  

Jimmy the Freak
However; defamatory statements are defamatory even if you don't see them. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean millions of other people can't see them. In fact, not seeing them makes the potential damage all the greater.

This is not about namecalling. It's a lot closer to SWATting.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 10:46 AM  

It could be that Torba's endgame is already in play so he just doesn't give a damn about this.

Close down Gab, reopen it as a blockchain decentralized social media site.

Welcome to Thunderdome.

Blogger G Gatsby September 13, 2017 10:51 AM  

Vox -- I am an experienced DC-based lawyer also barred in New York soon Pennsylvania as well. I am interested in joining LLoE but unfortunately my legal expertise does not translate into the technical expertise to email you from link on your site. It just opens up a new Chrome window. Please email me at gr8tgatsby65@gmail.com and can share my experience and see if there is a way to work with your group.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 10:53 AM  

Welcome to Thunderdome.

Blockchain doesn't solve anything with regards to this. Remember that Vox didn't go to court in Australia, but in Texas where Gab is incorporated. How do you imagine that blockchain would have changed anything? Vox nor the LLoE has not ONCE contacted the registrar.

Blockchain solves another angle, but not this one.

Anonymous CPEG September 13, 2017 10:53 AM  

'The massive hole in the thinking of the Gab team is the "If you don't like what someone says, just mute them." '

In addition to the defamation issue you mentioned... what happens when a subculture invades that has no interest in keeping to themselves, but enjoys aggressively proselytizing to random people? If anybody, anytime, anywhere could suddenly have a bunch of Nazi trolls or SJWs attacking them over nothing, they're going to figure this out. This can be mitigated if they grit their teeth and implement some sort of mute lists that users can curate and subscribe to. I haven't been following the Stormer Troll Army closely, but I'm sure some of them get off on contacting random people on Gab and clowning around, thinking that's how you recruit people.

After all, every single person in that group is either comfortable with that sort of recruitment strategy being used, or that is how they themselves were recruited.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 10:55 AM  

In fact, when you close the last free avenue for recourse, you create a BIGGER demand for this approach. Torba should worry even more about what's happening now, if he's going for blockchain.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 10:56 AM  

Blockchain solves another angle, but not this one.
If they were to delete the whole shebang and start over would it not settle the complaint?

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 11:00 AM  

If they deleted all messages (there is no technical reason to do so) then yes, THIS complaint. As those particular messages would be also gone. But they would be faced with the exact same thing the moment that someone engages in defamation per se the next time. Nothing changes the fact that Gab is still a company incorporated in the exact same jurisdiction. The approach, too, will be the same.

Blogger Mercy September 13, 2017 11:01 AM  

The concerns and critiques about optics, brand, etc. remind me of an Adam Sandler skit on a comedy tape from the early 90s.
A boy is trying to explain something to his mother, and her only response is to repeatedly say "They're all gonna laugh at you!"

It's like a disjointed chorus of nagging Jewish mothers.

Anonymous Precious September 13, 2017 11:02 AM  

What Vox is doing is much more intellectually satisfying than punching Nazis.

Blogger David Power September 13, 2017 11:10 AM  



How many times have we (rightly) ridiculed the Leftoid equalists for bleating on about their hurt feels?

How, after this unedifying episode, can we ever laugh at them again?

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” - FN

Alas, it appears our host has lost his footing and slipped over the edge.

Anonymous Cassie September 13, 2017 11:10 AM  

The free speech absolutists who worship the platonic ideal of totally free speech don't seem to have any grasp of the huge exploit in their ideal, such as when evil people use "free speech" to DESTROY PEOPLE'S LIVES. It's like they haven't grown up enough to notice that the tongue "is a restless evil, full of deadly poison."

And as pointed out, the courts are not a great recourse. For one, it can be very slow and very expensive for someone to obtain justice that way; for another, it's unfortunately true that the courts don't police themselves well enough and allow blatant malicious misuse.

Which is why, if you're in a position to foil injustice, and instead of doing what you can, you say, "See you in court, sucker!" - that makes YOU one of the BAD GUYS.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 11:11 AM  

Nothing changes the fact that Gab is still a company incorporated in the exact same jurisdiction. The approach, too, will be the same.

Except Gab's role will have changed. They would no longer be the publisher. Every individual would be their own publisher.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 13, 2017 11:17 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 11:20 AM  

I very much doubt that the argument would survive in court, ESPECIALLY if Gab retains the ability to moderate anything at all, such as ISIS plotting terrorist attacks in Gab. What customers are paying Gab to do, is facilitate the data block from ending up from the user's computer to other computers. Only the mechanism in which the data transfer takes place, changes. Arguments that this is not "publishing" would have to be extremely convoluted.

Now, if Gab would become absolutely 100% unmoderated, even with that terrorist example, then it MIGHT be possible to argue that angle (but be compromised in other angles). Otherwise, definitely not.

Blogger Dr. Stephen J. Krune III September 13, 2017 11:20 AM  

Reminder: this all grew out of Vox's pissy demand that Gab ban Andrew Anglin from its service. Didn't get his way, so he decided to cry about being called names and wrap it up in some fairly thin rhetoric about testing Gab's resilience to legal challenges. Vox's autistic brain has gone into overdrive trying to rationalize his wounded ego.

I hear Vox himself is trying to develop a Gab clone. Good luck. After this self-inflicted PR disaster, it won't get much buy-in or word-of-mouth from anyone who matters.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 13, 2017 11:21 AM  

Gab is attempting to set up its own registrar so that Gab won't be vulnerable to having its domain name revoked in the future for reasons such as this. Until that happens, complaints to the registrar are, as I understand the situation, a major threat to the continued existence of Gab on the open internet.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 11:22 AM  

Now, if Gab would become absolutely 100% unmoderated,

In days it would be totally spammed and nearly useless.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 11:23 AM  

Dr. Stephen Troll
Reminder: this all grew out of Vox's pissy demand that Gab ban Andrew Anglin from its service.

Dude, lying won't get you anywhere.

Blogger dh September 13, 2017 11:25 AM  

Except Gab's role will have changed. They would no longer be the publisher. Every individual would be their own publisher.

But under US law, you have safe harbor if you follow a few basics procedures - the CDA has safe harbor, an the DMCA has safe harbor. So I don't get this argument.

Blogger dh September 13, 2017 11:27 AM  

Gab is attempting to set up its own registrar so that Gab won't be vulnerable to having its domain name revoked in the future for reasons such as this. Until that happens, complaints to the registrar are, as I understand the situation, a major threat to the continued existence of Gab on the open internet.

This is the worst plan they have yet. This means playing with ICANN. I don't think an organization whose motto is "One World, One Internet" is going to have a ton of support for a Gab-based totally free-wheeling registrar.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 11:27 AM  

Now, if Gab would become absolutely 100% unmoderated, even with that terrorist example, then it MIGHT be possible to argue that angle (but be compromised in other angles). Otherwise, definitely not.

Do you not get the sense that this is Torba's objective? Seems to me that the one thing that Torba HATES to do is moderate the speech of others, and has proven that he will only do so when pushed to the edge, and grudgingly so.

Torba will be the Satoshi of social media, or somebody else will do it. I don't see how it can NOT happen at this point - the gatekeepers have cut off every other avenue.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 11:28 AM  

Remember what happened the last time with Silk Road. The owner got life in prison without parole. That has been tried already. It won't work any better this time.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 13, 2017 11:28 AM  

fop wrote:Nothing changes the fact that Gab is still a company incorporated in the exact same jurisdiction. The approach, too, will be the same.

Except Gab's role will have changed. They would no longer be the publisher. Every individual would be their own publisher.



Not being the publisher doesn't put them in the clear.

Anonymous johnc September 13, 2017 11:31 AM  

It could be that Torba's endgame is already in play so he just doesn't give a damn about this.

I'm sure he already knows that the law requires Gab to be nothing more than a Twitter clone, inasmuch as non-PC sentiments are prohibited. He practically admitted this on that Cernovich interview he did a few days ago. The question is how does he deal with this now that he has all those investors?

Blogger RobertT September 13, 2017 11:31 AM  

For what it's worth. I think you are handling it admirably.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 13, 2017 11:33 AM  

@Markku I don't understand the Gab/Silk Road comparison. How is Gab like Silk Road in this situation?

Anonymous Audiobook fan September 13, 2017 11:35 AM  

OT: Vox, I just bought the Kindle version of TIA. I also sprung for the audible version, but I cannot find how to listen to it at Amazon. I can read the Kindle Cloud Reader version on my PC, but I'd also like to listen to the narrated version, and I don't know how.

Here's how:

You also need to install the audible app on your phone or whatever you want to use for listening (phone is obviously the best choice, you can plug in earphones and take it with you). You don't need to subscribe to a monthly subscription, I believe you just log in with your Amazon account and you should be good to go. You should see the audio of TIA waiting to be downloaded.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 11:36 AM  

Remember: This is assuming the 100% unmoderated -situation, which let's face it, is not gonna happen. In this counterfactual scenario, they make their company profit by deliberately having designed the system in such a way that terrorism-related criminal activity can happen. It's the same argument as the Silk Road; It's not the company's fault if people engage in criminal transactions. That argument failed.

So, in any realistic scenario, Gab would have to moderate SOMETHING. At the absolute least, terrorism.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 11:44 AM  

If they designed something that accidentally and in unanticipated fashion had this effect (like would be the case for the original designers of Blockchain) then it would be one thing. But in this case, the only unique value the company offers, and its only source of profit, is the fact that the system is engineered in this way. So, that puts them in the same situation as Silk Road. They couldn't argue that it's an accident, when that is the very product they are selling for money.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 11:44 AM  

Remember what happened the last time with Silk Road.

Silk Road wasn't decentralized. They also charged a fee.

Not being the publisher doesn't put them in the clear.

What laws has Satoshi broken? Sure there are legal actions on the periphery (corrupt exchanges, illegal transactions) but the building of the system is innocuous.

Blogger Tupla-J September 13, 2017 11:46 AM  

I'd rather see Gab folks going through this with someone who isn't out to hurt them than the alternative.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 13, 2017 11:47 AM  

Sure there are legal actions on the periphery (corrupt exchanges, illegal transactions) but the building of the system is innocuous.

Tell that to a host.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 11:48 AM  

Please email me

Will do. Thanks.

Reminder: this all grew out of Vox's pissy demand that Gab ban Andrew Anglin from its service.

That's not true. I never demanded that Gab ban Andrew Anglin from its service. I told Andrew that he would be wise to do so proactively.

I hear Vox himself is trying to develop a Gab clone.

That's not true. If I was trying to do so, we would already have it running; it's much, much easier than what we've done in artificial intelligence and with Infogalactic. But we certainly have the technical capability to do so if Gab implodes or decides to leave a huge vaccuum in the market.

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 11:49 AM  

BunE22 wrote:"news that the abuse on his site was being reported led Andrew Torba to publicly threaten a campaign of harassment of the gentleman concerned."

A public campaign of harassment is bad, but what about a private one? Like an operation to oust an editor and her husband? Or an operation to manipulate Amazon front page reviews? As long as they're private it's ok, right?

For all your talk of truth, and calling people Satan, you're the fake Christian and follower of the father of lies. You're not my brother in Christ.


Making virtue-signaling great again! FTW.

Anonymous Casey September 13, 2017 11:49 AM  

It seems to me that Torba is simply allowing Vox to engage in a series of actions which will render him totally insignificant to anyone or any group truly associated with the Alt-Right.

On the other hand, those on the left will continue to label Vox a white supremacist, as the Salon article did.

I see no "win" coming out of this for either Vox or Gab and I'll continue to be dubious about those who encourage Vox to continue his present course of action.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 13, 2017 11:50 AM  

I'm sure he already knows that the law requires Gab to be nothing more than a Twitter clone, inasmuch as non-PC sentiments are prohibited. He practically admitted this on that Cernovich interview he did a few days ago.

If Torba actually thinks this, he really isn't ready for prime time.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 13, 2017 11:52 AM  

Who'd have thought that Gab would go full Gawker?

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 11:53 AM  

Gab has not yet done anything that would make THEM have to pay damages, so not Gawker yet. Only if they turned around and refused to provide the data after a subpoena, then it would be Gawker territory. I have no reason to think they'd do so.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 11:54 AM  

I see no "win" coming out of this for either Vox or Gab and I'll continue to be dubious about those who encourage Vox to continue his present course of action.

You clearly don't understand how I define winning. I like skulls and smoking battlefields.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 11:55 AM  

This is assuming the 100% unmoderated -situation, which let's face it, is not gonna happen.

I say 100% anonymity yields 100% unmoderated speech.

Whether the elites will ever allow 100% anonymity is questionable, but perhaps under certain scenarios they will have no choice in the matter.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 13, 2017 11:59 AM  

Dr. Stephen J. Krune III wrote:Reminder: this all grew out of Vox's pissy demand that Gab ban Andrew Anglin from its service. Didn't get his way, so he decided to cry about being called names and wrap it up in some fairly thin rhetoric about testing Gab's resilience to legal challenges.

Vox's autistic brain has gone into overdrive trying to rationalize his wounded ego.

I hear Vox himself is trying to develop a Gab clone.


See, the deal is, when you decide to join a group of people who lie deliberately, as a matter of policy, you have to understand, they're lying to you and each other too. Believing anything they say is not a good pro-positive teen life choice.

Anonymous Casey September 13, 2017 12:03 PM  

Well, Vox,..if skulls and smoking battlefields are your objectives you need to leave off any claims about not trying to damage Gab and the Alt-Right.

Blogger Lovekraft September 13, 2017 12:03 PM  

This video will be useful in responding to the Anglin-ites.

Basically, the Nazis and Communists are cut from the same cloth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVCW1LOhjRs&t=365s

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 13, 2017 12:06 PM  

Stormpoopers are not alt-right. Gab is just in the way. They have been asked, at first politely, and now with more force, to move.
They will move, one way or the other.

Anonymous Casey September 13, 2017 12:08 PM  

I forgot all about the Gawker/Cernovich feud.

Now I see what's going on. Vox wants his very own Gawker/Cernovich feud.

Anonymous Battlefrog September 13, 2017 12:10 PM  

Since my investment in Gab has not cleared yet, I lowered it by 1/3. Honestly, I was tempted to get out completely.

I'm still willing to risk my money to help Gab, but the fact that Torba is attacking customers is extremely disconcerting. I believe he fancies himself to be operating under the "Trump model". But he's completely ignoring the fact that Trump does not attack his customers or allies.

I think he was under a lot of stress and fatigue, which explains some of his behavior. Unfortunately, the Utzav guy is something of a clown, which anyone watching this scope should quickly realize: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1mnGemokmgnGX

My hope is that this legal interaction will teach Torba a swift and important lesson.

Anonymous Scintan September 13, 2017 12:14 PM  

Again, I will point out that it is not my intent to harm Gab.

I don't know why you insist on keeping up the pretense about this. Of course it's your intent to harm Gab. It may not be your primary, or even secondary, intent, but to say it's not your intent is obviously false.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 12:14 PM  

Casey

Now I see what's going on. Vox wants his very own Gawker/Cernovich feud.


Are you really that stupid or just lying? Direct question.

Blogger Jack Ward September 13, 2017 12:16 PM  

Through all this, as I see it, the damage to what could have been, should have been, an effective alternative to twitter may be fatal.
Is Vox right to administer tough love toward Gab? Probably. Was he defamed. Certainly. If Gab falls will anyone else want to take the chance? Will twitter and the sjw scum win from this? I hope not. Would Vox be willing to do a twitter alternative just to keep twitter running scared? I can't say. But, to think he, Vox, would have the time and even monetary resources to do that seems doubtful to me. Ultimately, I think the damage to Gab, while it may get much worse, has probably already been done. So be it. You win some and lose some.
I just hate to see any of those outfits like twitter, facebook, etc. win in any way.

Anonymous Perfunctory Solecism September 13, 2017 12:16 PM  

This is a lot of trouble to be going through if Gab ends up getting purged off the internet in a few months for ideological reasons like some other sites have been.

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 12:16 PM  

Casey wrote:I forgot all about the Gawker/Cernovich feud.

Now I see what's going on. Vox wants his very own Gawker/Cernovich feud.


Blown cover as cover.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 13, 2017 12:18 PM  

@Rhino

Wrong. The most harmful thing to do to Gab would be to sue them as the publishers of the defamation. For high real damages and extravagant punitive damages

Since VD didn't take that route, he's not doing the most harmful thing to Gab. In fact, he's being very gentle. He's teaching them a legal lesson that they need to understand, and at a low price. All he's demanding from Gab is the identities of those writing labels.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 12:18 PM  

Tell that to a host.

In an open, public, permissionless blockchain everyone is potentially a host.

Who you gonna sue?

Even in the worst case scenario (ISIS plans an attack on Blockchain Gab, carries it out and kills 100 people) who carries the liability? All the millions of hosts? Ridiculous. Torba? There was never an expectation of moderation and it ain't possible anyway. Computer manufacturers? No way.

The liability goes exactly where it belongs - on the terrorists.

Anonymous Justin Bailey September 13, 2017 12:19 PM  

Seeing Torba and the other Gab execs reaction to this leaves me dubious to his grandiose claims of going after Google and the other big names. Torba's immediate reaction to Vox was to completely come unhinged and cozying up to the Stormpoopers, reposting praise from "Hitler Was Right" and AA himself. This was minus any real legal action, just the notice that legal action would be started. I imagine Google has an impressive army of lawyers at their beck and call, and if they set up formation while Gab's General is flailing about pooping on the battlefield and posturing with the court jesters, I don't think he will get far at all. Action needs to be started against the Silicon Valley Technocracy, but I no longer believe Torba has the chops to pull it off.

Blogger Cloudbuster September 13, 2017 12:25 PM  

The process is simply too expensive for most people; the court filing alone is over $300.

If you're not willing to put a little skin in the game, then how damaging was the alleged defamation, really?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 12:26 PM  

Scintan
Of course it's your intent to harm Gab. It may not be your primary, or even secondary, intent, but to say it's not your intent is obviously false.

I'm stupid. Please walk me through your reasons. Because i don't see how you reach that conclusion.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 13, 2017 12:27 PM  

Casey wrote:I forgot all about the Gawker/Cernovich feud.
I'm not sure how even a Stormpooper could confuse Cernovich and Hulk Hogan. Granted they're both comparatively big mean scary guys who would kick your ass just for lulz... oh wait, I do see how you could confuse them.

fop wrote:Even in the worst case scenario (ISIS plans an attack on Blockchain Gab, carries it out and kills 100 people) who carries the liability? All the millions of hosts? Ridiculous. Torba? There was never an expectation of moderation and it ain't possible anyway. Computer manufacturers? No way.

The liability goes exactly where it belongs - on the terrorists.

And then you will be shut down, your assets seized and you will spend the rest of your life in prison. To the cheers of the public.
Do you think that technical avoidance of liability would hold in that situation?

Anonymous Casey September 13, 2017 12:29 PM  

@A Most Deplorable Paradigm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnzbBB53e3M

Blogger Orthodox September 13, 2017 12:30 PM  

The funniest aspect of all of this is the DailyStormer and Torba adhering to extreme libertarian definitions of speech. Muh libertarianism.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 12:30 PM  

Action needs to be started against the Silicon Valley Technocracy, but I no longer believe Torba has the chops to pull it off.

Paris Hilton started her own blockchain currency. Pepe, the cartoon frog, has his own blockchain. Floyd Mayweather has one too.

It ain't that hard. And Torba has already announced that his will be starting up in November.

Blogger David Power September 13, 2017 12:31 PM  

Never, Never, Never, shoot Right.

But but but, they are not of the Right.

Really?

Stream as many debates as you like, resurrect Hitler himself and have him as your chief witness, you will never convince a single Leftist that Naziism is of the Left.

The cold hard fact of the matter is that 99.999% of the public believe Naziism is of the Right and nothing you say or do will change their minds.

"My instinct, when faced with a seemingly indomitable enemy of boundless malevolence for me and my kind, is to praise potential allies when they deserve my praise, and to ignore or chide them in good cheer when they stray too far off the realtalk reservation.

But never will I rage at them with the passion I save for my true enemy, Anti-White Leftoid Equalism.

Excusing one’s worst enemy while disingenuously railing against one’s occasionally intemperate allies is the way of the cuck.

Do leftoids ever do this with their zealots?

No.

The Right could learn a thing or two from the Left.

For this reason, I support Anglin despite my stylistic differences with him" - CH.


CH, as he invariably does, sees the bigger picture.

If you destroy everyone to your political Right, the Left will not pat you on the back with gratitude. They will not declare victory and march back to their barracks.

Regardless of how moderate your views, or how reasoned your arguments, if there is no one to your Right, the Left will paint you as a Right-wing extremist and attack you with the same ferocity they previously reserved for more radical activists.

There is a reason your site has been left untouched by the current purge. You are not feared by them. In contrast, nothing terrifies them more than the sight of awoke whites openly organising themselves.

You may not like them or agree with their methods but the far Right are useful. Pointing out to the more moderate leftoids, that continuing their current fanatical anti-white crusade will only bolster the ranks of the far Right, is a powerful incentive for them to take stock.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 13, 2017 12:32 PM  

Battlefrog September 13, 2017 12:10 PM
My hope is that this legal interaction will teach Torba a swift and important lesson.



my hope is that Andrew Torba is more proficient at wielding his axe than he is at using his smart phone.

holy crap, dude, do you even internet? LANDSCAPE.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 12:34 PM  

I don't know why you insist on keeping up the pretense about this. Of course it's your intent to harm Gab. It may not be your primary, or even secondary, intent, but to say it's not your intent is obviously false.

You're completely wrong. I am not a threat to Gab. Gab's two primary threats are Gab's foolish strategy and Gab's refusal to moderate. The former has nothing whatsoever to do with me.

If I intended to harm Gab, it would be a smoking ruin already.

If you're not willing to put a little skin in the game, then how damaging was the alleged defamation, really?

Not everyone has skin.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 12:37 PM  

And then you will be shut down

Who? What? And how on earth?

Anonymous Avalanche September 13, 2017 12:37 PM  

@Rhino *Proceeds to do exactly the most harmful possible thing to Gab*

How idiotic. If you're in the hospital with a aggressive metastasizing tumor -- do you call the doctor who is coming at you with a scalpel "doing the most harmful thing possible"?!? I could see 'fearing the most harm' if it were an Alt Reichtard coming at you with a chainsaw!! Or an Alt Left commie/socialist SJW coming at you with a howitzer!

But Vox is a FRIEND, approaching with a scalpel (and a team of lawyers) to help keep Gab ALIVE! Will Gab suffer? Sure, ANYone with a tumor suffers; either in the surgery and healing -- or in the EXACERBATION and death that follows ignoring the tumor or refusing the surgery.

Andrew and Gab are at VAST risk because of Andrew's commitment to free speech above all. The "all" will KILL Gab! Andrew should be glad it's Vox, and not his enemies coming at him!

Blogger John Milton September 13, 2017 12:39 PM  

Gee, hope you don't sue me. . .

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 12:39 PM  

Who? What?

Gab-the-company.

And how on earth?

By removing it from the company registry.

Blogger John Milton September 13, 2017 12:40 PM  

John Derbyshire is right. Dissidents dissent.

Anonymous CrystalBlue September 13, 2017 12:43 PM  

John Milton wrote:John Derbyshire is right. Dissidents dissent.
Spock's father is right. "Tellarites do not argue for a reason. They simply argue."

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 12:46 PM  

If Mahmud uses a cell phone to coordinate his attack, can you sue Samsung?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 13, 2017 12:48 PM  

"If Mahmud uses a cell phone to coordinate his attack, can you sue Samsung?"

Sure you can.

Blogger Markku September 13, 2017 12:48 PM  

No, which is why I said the original designers of the Blockchain protocol would not be sued, even though the coordination of the attack would be an eventual result of their design. But when you profit from the fact that your system is specifically designed to give cover to those terrorists, and this is the unique feature you offer as opposed to your competitor, then yes, you WILL go to court.

Anonymous Perfunctory Solecism September 13, 2017 12:53 PM  

"Even in the worst case scenario (ISIS plans an attack on Blockchain Gab, carries it out and kills 100 people) who carries the liability? All the millions of hosts? Ridiculous. Torba? There was never an expectation of moderation and it ain't possible anyway. Computer manufacturers? No way."

Are we still talking about a public forum like Twitter or Gab? If so, then anyone can read about the jihadtard's plans in advance and attempt to interfere with them or stop them.

If we're talking about a private messaging system, then it's no different than encrypted email, and an entirely different beast. But that is not a public forum anymore.

Anonymous Avalanche September 13, 2017 12:53 PM  

sseeingsights like an invisible hand process: if a user doesn't like someone's comments, the user can block them.

I raised this with support at Gab when "suddenly" my 'home' thread was mostly in German or Dutch -- and I asked if there was some reason the "new' thread was no longer mostly (or entirely) in English. Support reminded me that "I could mute anyone I did not wish to see."

"Wait, wot?! I'm supposed to go try to mute EVERY SINGLE GERMAN SPEAKER ON THE PLANET!?!?"

(And then someone else tried to convince me there was no way to ID a Gab that was IN German)

Thankfully, whatever had been miscoded to put all the German and/or Dutch Gabs into the main thread was fixed.

But there is no 'invisible hand' -- only a hand YOU don't SEE!

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 13, 2017 12:56 PM  

Casey, point to the minute:second in that Darkstream where VD says he wants to have his very own Gawker/Cernovich feud with Gab.

Anonymous Uncle John's Band September 13, 2017 1:00 PM  

The whining is so tiresome.

The basic facts are painfully obvious to anyone who isn’t stupid or disingenuous.

A social media platform cannot expect to operate outside of the law. That types of speech are classified illegal is not a secret. Violating (or enabling the violation of) speech laws can have disastrous consequences for a business. It opens the way for crippling legal actions by entities like the SPLC, and drives off contributors who fear being libeled themselves.

Gab refuses to address this on their own, which jeopardizes their long-term viability. What Vox is doing forces Gab to address this vulnerability without the threat of ruinous financial penalties. SJWs would obviously go for the jugular.

The result should be that Gab develops some protocol for dealing with illegal speech, thereby blocking the possibility for SJW lawfare and removing the fear of unredressed libel. Anything goes so long as you keep it legal is a far better policy than any current alternative. As an added bonus, they can blame external forces (the law, Vox) for their unwilling deviation from free speech idealism.

It is absurd that anyone who gives a rat's ass for Gab's future would freak out over this.

Anonymous Avalanche September 13, 2017 1:01 PM  

I've heard a lot of people complain about the optics of the situation, saying that Vox has lost a lot of credibility.

Those would be the same people who kept, and keep, complaining that the God Emperor isn't getting anything done, until suddenly He announces with a flourish His latest accomplishment? How long must you hang out here before realizing that Trump is NOT the only one who can play 5th-level chess!?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 13, 2017 1:04 PM  

fop wrote:If Mahmud uses a cell phone to coordinate his attack, can you sue Samsung?


Do you remember 9/12/2001? When it was literally impossible to fly on an airplane in the US?
What happens is Federal Marshalls, accompanied by Federal snipers and attack dogs and armed with Federal guns show up at the door. If you're lucky they knock. They shut off the network, arrest everyone inside and take control of every computer. Then NSA arrives and gains access to every computer, tracking every single message through the system, while you wait for a court hearing at which you will be denied bail.
Several months later, if you are exonerated, you may be allowed to sue the federal government.

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 1:04 PM  

It's not hard. If Mr. Torba could extend his vision beyond the next turn in the road,, he might be able to see VD for the real ally he is.

At this point in the saga, Mr. Torba's pride is going to be his undoing.

He need only concede that after thoughtful consideration he realizes that there is really no such thing as free speech and that moderation in a public forum is requisite when it comes to defamation and real threats.

Sadly, I suspect that Mr. Torba's pride will only serve to keep him fixated on the next turn in the road though, a road that may very well end in a cliff. Time will tell.

Anonymous Scintan September 13, 2017 1:05 PM  

You're completely wrong. I am not a threat to Gab. Gab's two primary threats are Gab's foolish strategy and Gab's refusal to moderate. The former has nothing whatsoever to do with me.

If I intended to harm Gab, it would be a smoking ruin already.


I didn't say it was your primary, or even secondary, intent, and I made it clear that such may not be the case. But, of course you're trying to harm Gab.

You may consider it egg/omelette. You may consider it boxing training. You may consider it just a pass through. But don't try selling the falsehood. It's beneath you, and it's needless.

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:11 PM  

all of this is out of my mental reach. Perhaps you should explain why you are doing this for us not as smart and not so great in english. Perhaps this is though love, training someone by actually kicking his ass... the only explanation that makes sense, but still seems that could be done with less drama and without all the flamboyance and dick measurement contest feel of it

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 1:12 PM  

It is absurd that anyone who gives a rat's ass for Gab's future would freak out over this.

It is absurd, but most people are incapable of understanding abstract issues, or even foreseeing obvious consequences. Plus, as Spacebunny pointed out, the mere word "sue" is enough to freak most people out when it isn't merely being waved about as an empty threat. That's why it is so often used in that manner.

But, of course you're trying to harm Gab. You may consider it egg/omelette. You may consider it boxing training. You may consider it just a pass through. But don't try selling the falsehood. It's beneath you, and it's needless.

You're still wrong. Scintan. Now, do you want me to show you what harm to Gab would look like so that you will understand the difference? Is that your goal, to provoke me into doing so?

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 1:13 PM  

@Daniel

You had me at "this is out of my mental reach." We concur.

Anonymous Perfunctory Solecism September 13, 2017 1:13 PM  

"The result should be that Gab develops some protocol for dealing with illegal speech, thereby blocking the possibility for SJW lawfare and removing the fear of unredressed libel. Anything goes so long as you keep it legal is a far better policy than any current alternative. "

Except that much of the speech we consider acceptable political discourse, and non-libelous, is not legal in all jurisdictions.

Even staying totally within the law did not help Stormfront (Don Black's and David Duke's forum, NOT to be confused with the Daily Stormer, totally different groups of people.) A decade-plus WN forum with thousands of users and tens of thousands of threads and many subforums, which did not permit threats or libel, had its domain simply taken away.

Even with a robust anti-libel and anti-threat policy, there's nothing stopping them from taking down Gab in an instant and all this infighting will be for naught.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 1:14 PM  

Ah, I see the disconnect. You are thinking that Blockchain Gab will be a for-profit business entity. And you're right that if Torba were to go that short route he might fall into the pitfalls you foresee.

No, Torba would have to go big. Create it and set it free. Open source, public blockchain, just open the box and walk away.

Biggest FU to the corporatocracy in history, which I suspect is what Torba is really about.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 1:15 PM  

Perhaps you should explain why you are doing this for us not as smart and not so great in english.

First, I am removing the defamation. Second, I am providing a salutory lesson in what my brand is.

I am not attempting to help Gab. But neither am I attempting to harm them. The fact that it is less damaging for them to learn of the legal flaws in their structure from me than from someone more opposed to them is mere happenstance.

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:20 PM  

VD wrote:Perhaps you should explain why you are doing this for us not as smart and not so great in english.

First, I am removing the defamation. Second, I am providing a salutory lesson in what my brand is.

I am not attempting to help Gab. But neither am I attempting to harm them. The fact that it is less damaging for them to learn of the legal flaws in their structure from me than from someone more opposed to them is mere happenstance.


not enough of an explanation. If it where, you should have done this to twitter long ago.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 13, 2017 1:21 PM  

"If you don't like what someone says, just mute them."

That's fine for personal insults and offensive speech, but it has nothing to do with either of the current problems:

1) It's been obvious for more than a year now that SJWs aren't willing to ignore the things they don't want to see; they're determined to make sure no one else sees them either. If the companies providing the infrastructure are converged or can be blackmailed, the SJWs can make that happen, and no amount of telling people "just mute it" will make a bit of difference.

2) Normal people in current year aren't going to stand for being defamed on the public web. They just aren't. This isn't 1998, when if someone said you blow goats on comp.os.linux.misc, the only people who saw it were a few hundred other computer nerds who frequented that group and were all aware of the nature of the medium. Today, if someone says somewhere on the web that John Q. Public blows goats for cash, it may be seen by millions of people, and the link to it can be sent to nearly anyone, including his wife, employers, pastor, etc. It's a very different situation. Again, it doesn't matter if John Q. mutes the accuser; in fact, that only makes him ignorant of future attacks.

In short, that's an answer to the wrong question, so if they're really holding that out as the solution, they're clueless or dodging the real issues.

Anonymous Avalanche September 13, 2017 1:23 PM  

Snidely Do you remember 9/12/2001? When it was literally impossible to fly on an airplane in the US?

Unless you were a Saudi related to the Bin Ladens, or many of their staff and servants,who WERE able to fly on airplanes IN and out of the U.S. Thanks for that, CIA!

Anonymous R&D September 13, 2017 1:24 PM  

If I was trying to do so, we would already have it running

Right, just like First Sword and a complete version of A Sea of Skulls.

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 1:28 PM  

not enough of an explanation.

I don't care. Look, you guys can posture and whine and theorize all you like. It isn't merely happening, it has already happened.

Andrew Torba explained the process preferred by Gab. I am following that precise process. So what on Earth are you complaining about?

Anonymous Nunya Bidness September 13, 2017 1:29 PM  

Whay would Vox have Andrew Torba write the foreword to his latest book if he was intent on undermining Gab?

In other news, Torba just let everyone know that Gab is filing a lawsuit against someone tomorrow.

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 1:32 PM  

Daniel wrote:VD wrote:Perhaps you should explain why you are doing this for us not as smart and not so great in english.

First, I am removing the defamation. Second, I am providing a salutory lesson in what my brand is.

I am not attempting to help Gab. But neither am I attempting to harm them. The fact that it is less damaging for them to learn of the legal flaws in their structure from me than from someone more opposed to them is mere happenstance.


not enough of an explanation. If it where, you should have done this to twitter long ago.


#LimitedMentalReach

Blogger Dirtnapninja September 13, 2017 1:35 PM  

If Gab is smart, they will use this as an opportunity. Gab will never go mainstream if its known as "Nazi Twitter".

Blogger Cail Corishev September 13, 2017 1:40 PM  

I say 100% anonymity yields 100% unmoderated speech.

In theory, perhaps. In reality, I don't think many people know what you mean by "100% anonymity" (not just the level the chans provide), or how far the current web is from that. The potential is there with a blockchain-based system, and I think that's where we're headed eventually. But it's nowhere near as simple as "Just use the blockchain," which I've seen more than once (not from you, from others). Everything online moved toward a centralized, client-server model over the years because it's much easier. Distributed is harder. And ultimately everything will have to be distributed, because if you're still counting on any of the centralized services like domain registration, you're still just as vulnerable.

If Gab rolls out a blockchain-based version before the end of the year, and builds it in a way that's invulnerable to the infrastructure attacks we've seen so far, yet makes it easy enough to hop onto that they get more than a tiny percentage of their current number of users, I will be thorougly impressed. And thrilled -- that would be a big win for decentralization in general.

But then there's still the question: Will the normies use it, or would they try to kill a system that cannot be moderated to prevent things like kiddie porn and clear defamation?

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:40 PM  

VD wrote:not enough of an explanation.

I don't care. Look, you guys can posture and whine and theorize all you like. It isn't merely happening, it has already happened.

Andrew Torba explained the process preferred by Gab. I am following that precise process. So what on Earth are you complaining about?


I was going to comment "well, we'll see how this works out". But since you ask what we are complaining about I'll try to explain:

- we see this as uncalled for, unnecessary.
- As I say, you are making a big deal of this,
- We think Torba is one of the good alt techers, and I think you are risking him say "just fuck this" (chupenla putos) and go under and never hear of him again.
- I think other alt tech dudes might try not to have anything to do with you, because no one knows what can trigger you to go berserk on them. That's a loss-loss
- I think many vfm will question your sanity
- Still do not get why you are doing his, sorry

Again, I think you have hidden motives and I was not going to answer. But you asked.

hope this turns out for the good, bye

Anonymous Uncle John's Band September 13, 2017 1:40 PM  

"Even with a robust anti-libel and anti-threat policy, there's nothing stopping them from taking down Gab in an instant and all this infighting will be for naught."

A business faces more than one threat at a time. The fact that you might be unjustly taken down by a corrupt system does not mean that you should facilitate clearly defined illegal activity. Doing that all but guarantees that you will be taken down. Reforming speech protection laws is a worthwhile conversation, but it is separate from whether a business operating in the present day legal environment ought to at least try to comply with that legal environment. One is abstract, the other practical. The fact that the legal environment is complex makes compliance difficult, not unnecessary.

Blogger Lemur September 13, 2017 1:40 PM  

Vox, stop deleting that sick burn Casher O'Neil laid on you

https://kek.gg/i/Sr3wF.png

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:40 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Daniel wrote:VD wrote:Perhaps you should explain why you are doing this for us not as smart and not so great in english.

First, I am removing the defamation. Second, I am providing a salutory lesson in what my brand is.

I am not attempting to help Gab. But neither am I attempting to harm them. The fact that it is less damaging for them to learn of the legal flaws in their structure from me than from someone more opposed to them is mere happenstance.


not enough of an explanation. If it where, you should have done this to twitter long ago.


#LimitedMentalReach


Limited indeed!

Blogger VD September 13, 2017 1:41 PM  

In other news, Torba just let everyone know that Gab is filing a lawsuit against someone tomorrow.

That soon? Interesting.

Blogger roughcoat September 13, 2017 1:43 PM  

Daniel @ 1:40 PM

If Torba or anyone else folds because they can't handle a challenge from a friendly party, they were never going to succeed anyway.

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:46 PM  

roughcoat wrote:Daniel @ 1:40 PM

If Torba or anyone else folds because they can't handle a challenge from a friendly party, they were never going to succeed anyway.


Anyone can fight an enemy. Figthing with a friend (former) is bitter af

Again, VD has a hidden agenda. We are wasting our time here

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:47 PM  

"against" a friend (former) is what I meant.

Blogger James Dixon September 13, 2017 1:47 PM  

> ...you will never convince a single Leftist that Naziism is of the Left.

You spelled admit wrong. They already know it is.

> The cold hard fact of the matter is that 99.999% of the public believe Naziism is of the Right and nothing you say or do will change their minds.

We're already know MPAI. You don't have to convince us of that.

> If Mahmud uses a cell phone to coordinate his attack, can you sue Samsung?

Why don't you ask Apple about that? They have recent experience in the matter.

> If it where, you should have done this to twitter long ago.

Twitter has a policy in place to handle defamation.

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:49 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> ...you will never convince a single Leftist that Naziism is of the Left.

You spelled admit wrong. They already know it is.

> The cold hard fact of the matter is that 99.999% of the public believe Naziism is of the Right and nothing you say or do will change their minds.

We're already know MPAI. You don't have to convince us of that.

> If Mahmud uses a cell phone to coordinate his attack, can you sue Samsung?

Why don't you ask Apple about that? They have recent experience in the matter.

> If it where, you should have done this to twitter long ago.

Twitter has a policy in place to handle defamation.


i remember reading in twitter that vox has bots and fake traffic. if that is not defamation

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 1:50 PM  

Daniel wrote:roughcoat wrote:Daniel @ 1:40 PM

If Torba or anyone else folds because they can't handle a challenge from a friendly party, they were never going to succeed anyway.


Anyone can fight an enemy. Figthing with a friend (former) is bitter af

Again, VD has a hidden agenda. We are wasting our time here



The wounds of a friend are faithful. You really don't now what you're talking about and you know even less about VD and his agenda.

Come back when you have extended your mental reach.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 13, 2017 1:51 PM  

" Daniel September 13, 2017 1:40 PM
...
I was going to comment "well, we'll see how this works out". But since you ask what we are complaining about I'll try to explain:

- we see this as uncalled for, unnecessary.
- As I say, you are making a big deal of this,
- We think Torba is one of the good alt techers, and I think you are risking him say "just fuck this" (chupenla putos) and go under and never hear of him again.
- I think other alt tech dudes might try not to have anything to do with you, because no one knows what can trigger you to go berserk on them. That's a loss-loss
- I think many vfm will question your sanity
- Still do not get why you are doing his, sorry

Again, I think you have hidden motives and I was not going to answer. But you asked.

hope this turns out for the good, bye
"



Nope, you're not the original Daniel. He wouldn't be this thick.

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:52 PM  

Athor Pel wrote:" Daniel September 13, 2017 1:40 PM

...

I was going to comment "well, we'll see how this works out". But since you ask what we are complaining about I'll try to explain:

- we see this as uncalled for, unnecessary.

- As I say, you are making a big deal of this,

- We think Torba is one of the good alt techers, and I think you are risking him say "just fuck this" (chupenla putos) and go under and never hear of him again.

- I think other alt tech dudes might try not to have anything to do with you, because no one knows what can trigger you to go berserk on them. That's a loss-loss

- I think many vfm will question your sanity

- Still do not get why you are doing his, sorry

Again, I think you have hidden motives and I was not going to answer. But you asked.

hope this turns out for the good, bye

"


Nope, you're not the original Daniel. He wouldn't be this thick.



lol I am a Daniel from Argentina that almost never comment. Definiteviley not the Daniel you are talking about

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:53 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Daniel wrote:roughcoat wrote:Daniel @ 1:40 PM

If Torba or anyone else folds because they can't handle a challenge from a friendly party, they were never going to succeed anyway.


Anyone can fight an enemy. Figthing with a friend (former) is bitter af

Again, VD has a hidden agenda. We are wasting our time here



The wounds of a friend are faithful. You really don't now what you're talking about and you know even less about VD and his agenda.

Come back when you have extended your mental reach.


I think my mental reach is actually shrinking! pls let me stay

Blogger FALPhil September 13, 2017 1:54 PM  

- we see this as uncalled for, unnecessary.
That's your perogative; you are not the one that is being harmed.

- As I say, you are making a big deal of this,
Clearly, being defamed is not a big deal for you. Your brand is probably not worth all that much.

- We think Torba is one of the good alt techers, and I think you are risking him say "just fuck this" (chupenla putos) and go under and never hear of him again.
Your interpretation is incorrect. This would have happened regardless of the platform. Furthermore, a success on VD's part will make Gab more resilient and less fragile.

- I think other alt tech dudes might try not to have anything to do with you, because no one knows what can trigger you to go berserk on them. That's a loss-loss
The smart ones will learn from this and incorporate the anti-fragile lessons.

- I think many vfm will question your sanity
Not gonna happen. I am only a Dread Ilk, and I am not questioning sanity. The VFM are not pussies. They live for this stuff.

- Still do not get why you are doing his, sorry
Actually, that is understandable from the points you were trying to make.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 13, 2017 1:55 PM  

" Daniel September 13, 2017 1:46 PM
...
Anyone can fight an enemy. Figthing with a friend (former) is bitter af

Again, VD has a hidden agenda. We are wasting our time here
"



You think this is fighting? What kind of pussy are you?

This is assuming you're not here just to throw FUD.

Anonymous fop September 13, 2017 1:57 PM  

Why don't you ask Apple about that? They have recent experience in the matter.

That was not about liability, and the only party that was sued in that case was the FBI.

Anyhow, if Blockchain-Gab is designed properly, Torba will have no backdoor access and therefore any court order will be useless.

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:57 PM  

FALPhil wrote:- we see this as uncalled for, unnecessary.


- We think Torba is one of the good alt techers, and I think you are risking him say "just fuck this" (chupenla putos) and go under and never hear of him again.

Your interpretation is incorrect. This would have happened regardless of the platform. Furthermore, a success on VD's part will make Gab more resilient and less fragile.



so it's my "though love2 theory. voc explicitely said it's not the case. Just read the hole thing and then answer not the other way around

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 1:58 PM  

Athor Pel wrote:" Daniel September 13, 2017 1:46 PM

...

Anyone can fight an enemy. Figthing with a friend (former) is bitter af

Again, VD has a hidden agenda. We are wasting our time here

"


You think this is fighting? What kind of pussy are you?

This is assuming you're not here just to throw FUD.



throwing lawyers is worse that throwing punches. What kind of retard are you?

Blogger Daniel September 13, 2017 2:00 PM  

FALPhil wrote:- we see this as uncalled for, unnecessary.


- As I say, you are making a big deal of this,

Clearly, being defamed is not a big deal for you. Your brand is probably not worth all that much.


Sos muy chupapijas.

So you think THESE FUCKERS IN GAB harms vox's brand?? DUDE. think a little


Blogger James Dixon September 13, 2017 2:00 PM  

> ... if that is not defamation

You'd have to ask a lawyer to be certain, but I'm pretty sure it's not. Unless they insinuate that he's using those bots and fake traffic for nefarious purposes, of course.

> We are wasting our time here

Yes, you are.

Blogger Rabbi B September 13, 2017 2:01 PM  

I think my mental reach is actually shrinking! pls let me stay

No. You must go back.

Blogger Chiva September 13, 2017 2:01 PM  

Definiteviley not the Daniel you are talking about

Thank goodness. I was getting concerned.

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