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Thursday, September 28, 2017

The original Comics-SJW

I've been a little taken aback by the sheer vituperation of the SJWs triggered by the mere existence of the Alt⭐️Hero concept, at least at this very early stage. And, I confess, I have been more than a little surprised by their apparent confusion between the late Marvel/DC artist Jack Kirby and the superheroes that he drew.
Ayatollah Cumonme‏ @Phonycian
if jack kirby were alive today he'd kick you in the balls and spit on you

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
If Jack Kirby were alive today, he'd be asking to work for me. The SJWs at Marvel and DC today wouldn't employ him.

rstevens  @rstevens
kirby would cook you and serve you to hogs, dude

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
You're talking about the little Jewish guy with no biceps, right? Sure, he might draw that.

psychopompous‏ @prognostiq
you really have fucking clue huh. i mean, not surprising but... you're not fit to shine his shoes, bud.

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
Shine his tiny little size five shoes? I shall endeavor to restrain my disappointment.

Jo O'Donnell ⚘‏ @bowtiednomad
son hed cause more damage to your body than your daily lunch of 5 5-layer burritos

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
A dead guy who went 5'4 and weighed about 125? You've read way too many comic books. You know they're not real, right?

meth lab for cutie‏ @patrickmustdie
jack kirby would of wooped your ass and then tell the story for laughs at parties for years

Supreme Dark Lord‏ @voxday
Kirby used to brag about fighting a guy who didn't show up. I made the Commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps tap out in less than 7 seconds.
As strange as it is to be threatened with a very small corpse, I understand that comic book fans enjoy this sort of theoretical matchup. So, just to be clear, this is Jack Kirby in his physical prime, with his wife, Roz. This is another picture of KirbyThis is me, with Spacebunny. Another picture of me. Yes, both pictures were a long time ago, but nevertheless, I am confident that I have maintained myself in rather better condition than Mr. Kirby has.

Jack Kirby's tough guy story: Once, while Jack was in the Timely office, a call came from someone in the lobby. When Kirby answered, the caller threatened Jack with bodily harm if he showed his face. Kirby told the caller he would be right down, but by the time Jack reached street level, there was no one to be found.

Vox Day's tough guy story: In his second public ringfight, his opponent, a Tae Kwan Do practitioner, broke Vox's nose in the initial exchange. Vox didn't notice it until his sensei called time out to stop the bleeding. After the time out, Vox caught his opponent coming in with a sidekick that doubled him over, and proceeded to throw alternating hooks to both sides of the defenseless man's head until the referee stopped the fight in the first round and declared Vox the winner. After the fight, Vox went to the hospital to get his nose straightened out. Mostly.

For what it's worth. Anyhow, what explains this weird elevation of Jack Kirby to demigod status by the Comic SJWs? The answer, as it turns out, is that they believe him to have been their much-revered forefather who blazed the social justice trail they so bravely tread today.
X-Men creator Jack Kirby was the original comic book social justice warrior

Over the past week, comic book enthusiasts have been celebrating the late artist Jack Kirby's birthday by remembering the impact he had on the industry. From his iconic stories and characters to his contentious relationship with Marvel, Kirby's legacy is a rich and memorable one. A massive part of this legacy was that Kirby was always telling stories — through his heroes like the X-Men, the Thing, the Hulk — of being an outsider and becoming a hero despite living in a world that's seemingly out to get you. And there are still people fighting battles today in the spirit of Kirby's legacy.

The past few years in the comic book industry have been underscored by a struggle for more diversity. And while it can get ugly, sexist, and racist, there's plenty of good to come out of this battle. Case in point: the hugely successful Ms. Marvel series featuring Kamala Khan, a Pakistani-American Muslim teenager. More characters like Kamala is what Kirby would have wanted.

In the spirit of remembering Kirby, writer Saladin Ahmed tweeted and pointed to a 1990 interview with the Comics Journal, where Kirby explained that he was compelled to create the superhero Black Panther because the default had always been white characters. And one day, he realized he was ignoring how important it was for him, and for the comic book industry, to reflect humanity.
So, yeah. This is going to be SO MUCH FUN. You know how SJWs love nothing better than to deconstruct our historical heroes and literally tear them down? Well, as I have pointed out, any use of a tactic legitimizes it....

And they're totally NOT TRIGGERED! NOT EVEN A LITTLE!

Georgie‏ @SilverDoe_Iso
Thanks to the delightful replies to this idiot, I was made aware of Faiza Hussein, and just ordered myself a comic 👍

Well, that certainly shows me! By the way, in the Marvel universe, Faiza Hussein is the current bearer of the sword Excalibur. That's right. In Marvel's world, King Arthur's blade is wielded by a Muslim woman.

But it must be confessed that it is true that the artists of Alt⭐️Hero don't draw women like Jack Kirby did. Then again, why they would want to do so remains a mystery to me. I leave it to the reader to guess which image below is Mr. Kirby's work and which is not. And, in case you're interested, I should probably mention that we anticipate launching the Freestartr campaign tomorrow.


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168 Comments:

Blogger Resident Moron™ September 28, 2017 8:06 AM  

I'm picking he-man in drag isn't your work?

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira September 28, 2017 8:09 AM  

Damn son, I had no idea VD was built like that. Proud of your boy!

Blogger Rough Carrigan September 28, 2017 8:10 AM  

That's all pretty hysterical. Other than saying "Oh I suppose we should have a black guy, too" was there anything about Kirby's heroes that fit the sjw template?

Blogger Michael Maier September 28, 2017 8:10 AM  

"King Arthur's blade is wielded by a Muslim woman."

The book EXCALIBUR was some epic stuff when done by the great Alan Davis. But then again, he was a true story teller. His art in the beginning was serviceable. As in, it told the story well but didn't look great. Then he got better.

That would be the only advice I would urge you as a producer/editor of comics:

Make sure the art serves the story. Some artists seem to think page after page of "action shots" is great art. Nope. You want art that tells the story well even if the dialogue isn't there.

Blogger Nate September 28, 2017 8:12 AM  

oh look.... Kirby was even ahead of the curve on trans-rights.

Blogger Zach September 28, 2017 8:13 AM  

Yeah... I'm a Jack Kirby fan, but feminine physiques weren't his strong point.

Blogger Orville September 28, 2017 8:15 AM  

Jack's women are T-loaded. Is that a 5 o'clock shadow on her manjaw?

Blogger xavier September 28, 2017 8:16 AM  

Lemme ask this very pointed question: Who's better Kirby or Stan Lee?
Because I doubt very much that Kirby was a beta social justice ehiner

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 8:21 AM  

> X-Men creator Jack Kirby was the original comic book social justice warrior

Total and complete BS. But then, SJW's always lie.

> So, just to be clear, this is Jack Kirby in his physical prime, with his wife, Roz

Heh. Standing a step up so he looks taller than his wife. Though to be fair, you're not that much taller than SB.

Blogger JACIII September 28, 2017 8:22 AM  

Never saw a woman with no neck. Under 350#.

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 8:22 AM  

> Who's better Kirby or Stan Lee?

At what? Kirby was by far the better artist. They were probably about equal at characters and plotting. Lee was by far the better promoter.

Blogger Howard Stone September 28, 2017 8:28 AM  

Early comic book art was terrible, yet they were very successful. It was the originality and creativity plus stories and characters that people want to read about that sold comic books. Besides an eye catching cover, the art has, for most of comic history, been secondary. Having said that, the art work I've seen of Alt Hero is good, so now it's a matter of whether the story is good, and if the story is good, then the comic is going to be great.

Blogger Nate September 28, 2017 8:30 AM  

Stan Lee is way better than Kirby was. What's going on with MarvelComics right now has almost nothing to do with Stan Lee. If you want to see what Stan Lee was doing... look at Marvel Comics in the 80s. They were freaking awesome.

Blogger Desdichado September 28, 2017 8:33 AM  

Mz. Muslim is hugely successful?! Who knew?

Blogger The Observer September 28, 2017 8:34 AM  

And, in case you're interested, I should probably mention that we anticipate launching the Freestartr campaign tomorrow.

*Hype intensifies*

Tomorrow morning, afternoon, or evening?

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 8:34 AM  

> ...the art work I've seen of Alt Hero is good

Yes. Not great, but good. And more than good enough to get the story across.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 28, 2017 8:37 AM  

So, just to be clear, this is Jack Kirby in his physical prime, with his wife, Roz.

Just to be clear, that's a napoleon complex in one photo.

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 8:37 AM  

> Stan Lee is way better than Kirby was.

At most of the details of running the company and producing a comic, yes. As I said, Kirby was by far the better artist. And the two together were far better than either alone.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 28, 2017 8:38 AM  

I like the way he angles the floating foot to make it look like he didn't deliberately choose to be on the next step up. That's practiced expertise right there.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 28, 2017 8:40 AM  

Why are they so intent on Jack Kirby regulating on Vox? Are they fapping with one hand while they type?

Blogger dc.sunsets September 28, 2017 8:40 AM  

Did all his characters look (in the jaw line) like Hulk?

Anonymous joe doakes September 28, 2017 8:41 AM  

I prefer the flaming sword photo. Doesn't show the sprinter abs, but the lifter arms are still okay. Better game face, too.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 28, 2017 8:44 AM  

I love how these morons appeal to the quality of a dead man who can't speak for himself.

This is like George R. R. Martin crapping on Tolkien.

So brave.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 28, 2017 8:46 AM  

And one day, he realized he was ignoring how important it was for him, and for the comic book industry, to reflect humanity.

I suppose this is why it seems like 9 out of ten actors in commercials & tv/movies now are black.

Apparently Madison Avenue management thinks the world is their target demo.

Blogger Zaklog the Great September 28, 2017 8:46 AM  

And despite controlling publishing, Hollywood, academia, the major media, the entrenched government bureaucracy, they still consider themselves oppressed outsiders.The delusion is stunning. It's no wonder they're such fans of trannies. Such complete denial of reality is their first principle.

Blogger Anno Ruse September 28, 2017 8:48 AM  

I've always been baffled by the praise for Jack Kirby. The guy could draw, for a certain value of drawing. But he was wildly outclassed by so many of his contemporaries that it remains a mystery how he ever garnered so much effing praise. Meanwhile real artists like Leonard Starr are virtually forgotten. What a shame. What a damn shame.

Blogger SirGroggy September 28, 2017 8:48 AM  

That's right. In Marvel's world, King Arthur's blade is wielded by a Muslim woman.

You cannot parody or satirise it. Again the force of S.J.W. bends reality itself in a way which you just cannot believe has actually occurred and when told about it, you still have to question whether this is an enormous practical joke.

Are the SJWs simply just the greatest and most epic ever practical joke? Will they at some point in the future all as one say "Got ya!!! We were only joking!". I'm still waiting for it. It's gonna be such a relief!

Anonymous Looking Glass September 28, 2017 8:51 AM  

The Jack Kirby defense strikes me as a defense more of X-Men (which really didn't do anything under his run, it was Chris Claremont that made them famous). The X-Men used "mutant" has something like a proxy for "homosexual". Though it really should be mentioned that Magneto was correct: Humans & Mutants can't live together. The logical choice is to exterminate them. (Give JMS & Babylon 5 credit for pointing that one out so clearly.)

But this does open up some interesting dynamics we're about to explode. Some roaming thoughts.

Comics as a profitable venture, for the publisher, pretty much died by the early 1970s. (When did Sci-Fi die? Comics seemed to have gotten there first.) However, as a Brand, Comic books was a big thing. That's important, as I think it sets out some fault lines.

The early comics were a mishmash of writers & artists from NYC. For whatever reasons, Comics seemed to attract a lot of first or second generation Eastern European immigrants. Considering it was mostly Work-for-Hire and low-regarded work, it strikes one as an industry that came about from scrappy new comers in New York.

However, since finding any WASP-types seems very difficult in comics, you have a situation where the industry became fairly homogenized around New York, and a few specific areas even there. (Honestly, it seems like comics attracted mostly the low-rung writers that couldn't go on to be sports writers from that time & era. Comics really developed around Gammas & Deltas.)

This does explain a lot of the reasons leading to the Comics Codes. Comics were something targeted at children but mostly produced by a very tiny minority group out of one city. Distrust of media organizations controlled by those not in the mass cultural majority leading to rules to enforce them to abide by cultural norms. But that did lead to something interesting happening.

The 80s & 90s, the huge revival of comics as driven by new talent. Little of it from NYC's Jewish sections. And nearly all of whom left to start up their own ventures because they couldn't get along with the Big 2's management.

Late 90s & early 2000s would see a massive encroachment by translated Japan Manga. Though all of the book sales with collapse with the GFC of 2008.

So, comics as an industry, for the big 2, is really a venture in keeping the IPs and producing content for cross-promotion and other marketing. Batman the "brand" is the most valuable aspect of Comics. As a written artform, they've been on a long descent after a large boom period from the late 80s to late 90s of creative endeavors, however the physical art has continued to improve as technology has made production easier.

So that's the real faultline: the SJW "infusion" was supposed to revitalize the industry, but it's failed. The SJWs have deemed comics a Safe Space. They're afraid.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 September 28, 2017 8:51 AM  

Gosh, I thought Jon Goldwater of Archie Comics was the first comic book SJW hero when Archie took a round for his friend, and Gay/Gub Ban
activist Senator Kevin Keller!
Meh live and learn.
CaptDMO

Anonymous NobodyExpects September 28, 2017 8:54 AM  

Comparing a orcress with a human female is not fair!

Anonymous The Original Arrogant Alejandro Villanueva Fan September 28, 2017 8:55 AM  

I don't see the little umbrella in the drink. Wtf?

Anonymous Stickwick September 28, 2017 8:56 AM  

Vox, until you can hike your trousers up to your armpits like a real man, I remain unimpressed.

Blogger VD September 28, 2017 8:56 AM  

Comparing a orcress with a human female is not fair!

Why do you always have to bring it back to Scalzi?

Blogger Nate September 28, 2017 8:57 AM  

"So that's the real faultline: the SJW "infusion" was supposed to revitalize the industry, but it's failed."

just a tiny infusion of raw sewage into your ice cream...

Blogger Shimshon September 28, 2017 9:00 AM  

Is Stickwick shit-testing Vox?

Blogger Howard Stone September 28, 2017 9:00 AM  

The Kirby thing I think is a tactic to try and create a narrative that Vox has no respect for the founding fathers of comic books and therefore... But yeah the laughing faze was surprisingly short, now they getting into physical threats.

Anonymous Zippy September 28, 2017 9:02 AM  

At least when Jack Kirby helped create Black Panther, he created a NEW superhero. He didn't piss on the legacy of an existing one.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 28, 2017 9:02 AM  

The pain of being a white dweeb must be unbearable, clinging to the lowest rung of the left's ladder being shit on by those who really count.

Anonymous Mayonnaise September 28, 2017 9:04 AM  

@24: I suppose this is why it seems like 9 out of ten actors in commercials & tv/movies now are black.

If it's a courtroom drama there's a 50-50 shot that the judge will be a black female. And black female judges are always wise ... not contentious or persnickety like the entitled white judges.

Blogger lubertdas September 28, 2017 9:11 AM  

Stan Lee together with Jack Kirby is the dictionary definition of "The whole being greater than the sum of it's parts."

Stan Lee was always best when in conjunction with a great storyteller, i.e. Kirby, Steve Ditko, etc. When he's just the writer, his work is mundane.

Jack Kirby's best work was with Stan, and I think even he would admit that. Jack did create some good work on his own, The New Gods, and The Eternals for example, but he also created Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 28, 2017 9:11 AM  

@34 Nate

We know how it'd go, but SJWs don't think that way.


Something I'd forgotten about when it came to comics:

http://infogalactic.com/info/Seduction_of_the_Innocent

Which lead to:

http://infogalactic.com/info/Comics_Code_Authority


It only took about 60 years, but this passage from IG reads pretty funny now.

"Comics, especially the crime/horror titles pioneered by EC, were not lacking in gruesome images; Wertham reproduced these extensively, pointing out what he saw as recurring morbid themes such as "injury to the eye".[1] Many of his other conjectures, particularly about hidden sexual themes (e.g. images of female nudity concealed in drawings or Batman and Robin as gay partners), met with derision within the comics industry. Wertham's claim that Wonder Woman had a bondage subtext was somewhat better documented, as her creator William Moulton Marston had admitted as much; however, Wertham also claimed Wonder Woman's strength and independence made her a lesbian.[2] Wertham also claimed that Superman was both un-American and a fascist."

There's some hilarious subtext in all of this when you start to view it from the perspective of cultural projection from the artist themselves. Automatic cultural propaganda is something humans do, so it makes the perspective interesting in comic books.

Also slightly related, but I'm fairly sure the Japanese Manga industry is significantly bigger as a matter of volume & revenue than the American Comic industry. At least as it relates to the actual books themselves. I'm actually fairly certain One Piece alone is larger than the entire American Comics industry, but that'd take some work to verify.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore September 28, 2017 9:16 AM  

I hate the way that SJWs hijacked Kirby and, ultimately, the institution of Marvel Comics and distorted it to support their narrative. It's hard to accept the fact that SJWs take over institutions for the sake of influencing rather than to continue the purpose for which the institution was created in the first place. Kirby's Black Panther fought bad guys, went on adventures to exotic places, and time traveled in one instance. SJW Marvel's Black Panther goes to Harlem to fight gentrification patterns induced by Nazis (Hydra).

Blogger Cail Corishev September 28, 2017 9:17 AM  

Mz. Muslim is hugely successful?! Who knew?

Successful at keeping the people who make it employed and feeling like they're scoring points against the people they hate. They probably give each other awards for it too. Success on their terms.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 28, 2017 9:22 AM  

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017/2017-08.html

Comics considered terrible still sell more than 25k USD. I think this'll work.

@42 Al From Bay Shore

Comics was a pre-converged industry, mostly spawning from first & second generation immigrants out of NYC in the 1930s.

Anonymous Stickwick September 28, 2017 9:23 AM  

Shimshon, yes, it's the classic Fred Mertz provocation. The gauntlet has been thrown down.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 28, 2017 9:35 AM  

Looking Glass wrote:Wertham also claimed that Superman was both un-American and a fascist."

I don't know comics, but even I can tell you that Superman is a superversion of Nietzsche. He exemplifies noblesse oblige.

Blogger paul b. September 28, 2017 9:36 AM  

They really are protective of their comics. JCW's recent posts about Marvel resulted in this noticeable upswing of butthurt libtard and crypto-libtard comments on his blog.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 28, 2017 9:40 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 28, 2017 9:43 AM  

@41

Castalia House, at your service.

The Seduction of the Innocent was nuts.

Anonymous Avalanche September 28, 2017 9:47 AM  

OP: "Faiza Hussein is the current bearer of the sword Excalibur. That's right. In Marvel's world, King Arthur's blade is wielded by a Muslim woman."

Heinous cultural appropriation of our White British literary (and possibly real) history; she must give it back! (Where-oh-where is our once and future king?! Is it not time?)

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 28, 2017 9:47 AM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Why are they so intent on Jack Kirby regulating on Vox? Are they fapping with one hand while they type?

When it comes to comics the general public can only come up with two names, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

And threatening anybody with the awesome bruttish, ass kicking power of Stan Lee is ridiculous even by SJW standards.

Anonymous TS September 28, 2017 9:49 AM  

"That's right. In Marvel's world, King Arthur's blade is wielded by a Muslim woman."

If that isn't an attempt at triggering I don't what is.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab September 28, 2017 9:51 AM  

One the sjw's of the day hated Kirby. Two, why are you ruining a perfectly good pic of SB?

Anonymous Avalanche September 28, 2017 9:54 AM  

@24 "I suppose this is why it seems like 9 out of ten actors in commercials & tv/movies now are black."

Actually, it's because they tested their marketing and WHITE buyers will buy a product if it's well-made and well-reported. Blacks (seemingly) don't care about well-made or well-regarded, but if it's sold by "one of my people" they'll buy it more than if it's sold by the oppressors.

(My jaundiced terms, of course, but the study was real.)

Wonder if they should test Whites again? Wonder if the insanely high (out-of-)proportion of 'magic negroes' putting down Whites (esp. White men!) to sell stuff has gotten way too noticeable TO Whites?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 28, 2017 9:54 AM  

I know it's cool, butbthats like saying you made the President tap out in seven seconds. Just saying you know the Commandant or he gave you a high and tight is cool enough in my book.

Anonymous Ledfordbot September 28, 2017 9:55 AM  

Beware! "Jack Kirby" is just his mild-mannered secret identity. When the cry goes out for social justice, he holds aloft the Port Huron Statement and becomes The Triggly Panthress.

Anonymous Sheiko29 September 28, 2017 10:00 AM  

125? That's genetic disorder territory. Of course, no one really lifted back then.

"An adult male weights at least 200 lbs." - Rippetoe

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable September 28, 2017 10:03 AM  

Mz. Muslim is hugely successful?! Who knew?

Ms Muzzy sold 17,010 units in August, according to the link about, making it the 130th most successful comic on that list. The top seller for the month moved over 260,000 units. For Marvel, sales below 20,000 usually means cancellation or a big reboot is coming soon -- unless of course there is a narrative to be maintained, in which case they may wait until their little darling drops into single digits.

So translating from the SJW-speak, "hugely successful" actually means "loses bags of money for the company, but sends the right message".

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer September 28, 2017 10:05 AM  

The SJWs have deemed comics a Safe Space. They're afraid.

It seems ridiculous to me to be threatening physical harm on someone for publishing a comic book. That is something a small, not particularly bright, child would do. If they had not been raised correctly.

They must have been beyond annoying and I'm sure most other kids wouldn't play with them.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 28, 2017 10:06 AM  

Case in point: the hugely successful Ms. Marvel series featuring Kamala Khan, a Pakistani-American Muslim teenager. More characters like Kamala is what Kirby would have wanted.

How do they define "hugely successful"? The "Diversity in Comics" YouTube channel has more followers than Ms Marvel has in sales.

Lets by clear, I like the guy but he's only got 41,000 subscribers. Jack Kirby would have walked off any title with numbers that low.

Still Ms. Marvel is a great example of what Marvel stands for... Which is ANTIFA.

I'm serious about that.

Ms. Marvel is a teenage Pakistani girl with zero legal authority who breaks into her friends houses and arrests them for (*I shit you not*) racist pre-crime.

She was just ordered to do it by the old Ms. Marvel, who is the new Captain Marvel (*and may or may not be a woman anymore, it's hard to tell from the artwork at this point.*)

Regardless, Captain Marvel has all the legal authority of a college diversity provost.

The Marvel superhero is now an ANTIFA thug.

I'm not certain that a guy who had been a Jew in the 1940s would have been cool with fascist street fighters.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer September 28, 2017 10:09 AM  

Inappropriate displays of anger mean you have issues that you should confront.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 28, 2017 10:09 AM  

@58

You beat me to it.

Blogger VD September 28, 2017 10:10 AM  

I know it's cool, butbthats like saying you made the President tap out in seven seconds. Just saying you know the Commandant or he gave you a high and tight is cool enough in my book.

He was the one talking smack about martial arts. SB was there. It was pretty funny, actually. Uncle Chuck was a first-tier smack talker.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 28, 2017 10:11 AM  

@49 VFM #6306

That entire era was nuts from a Science & Government perspective. Thanks for link.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer September 28, 2017 10:12 AM  

Regardless, Captain Marvel has all the legal authority of a college diversity provost.

And is white but arrogates authority for herself to tell a brown person what to do!

Triggered!

Blogger Matthew McDaniel September 28, 2017 10:13 AM  

I'm a YUGE Kirby fan. He built Marvel. But even his most ardent supporters will concede he drew ugly women. Monsterous.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 28, 2017 10:14 AM  

short, soft, pudgy and married to an Amazon? so Kirby was Scalzi before Scalzi was cool?

going through life as Bobby Trippe was supposed to be a warning, not a goal, son.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 28, 2017 10:14 AM  

@59 Ron Winkleheimer

Comics, as a book form, left the mainstream and became "geek" in a process starting in the 50s. Mostly for economic reasons, but it is what it was. Superhero comics were mostly written by lower-tiered Men and it's collected up the lower-rung of much of society as a fan base. And it got worse with the SJW infection.

Semi-related, but it appears that Archie & Jugghead was created by a guy that would be well described as a "cad". Funny the enduring popularity there.

Blogger Jordan179 September 28, 2017 10:15 AM  

Don't get dragged into the notion that Jack Kirby was a social justice Warrior. He wasn't. Yes, he had some left-wing political opinions, but he also had a sense of humor and he was brilliantly creative.

Had he been a social justice Warrior, his name would be today unknown.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 28, 2017 10:16 AM  

Your definition of success is different than theirs.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 28, 2017 10:17 AM  

Well fair enough. Talk shit get wrecked. I did the we thing to my class commander at Sergeants Course.

Anonymous Nathan September 28, 2017 10:17 AM  

"Ms Muzzy sold 17,010 units in August, according to the link about, making it the 130th most successful comic on that list. "

But it won a Hugo and two Eisners. /sarc

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:18 AM  

@12

Nigga please, you might as well be sayin' 'Hello fellow comic book fan! How are you today?' in a stiff, robotic voice.

Look, the truth is, Vox didn't exactly pick a pic of Kirby at his best (it could only have been worse if he showed a pic involving ears, which Kirby had a weird habit of either not drawing or making look weird) and the truth is comic book art in a lot of ways is even more terrible in MODERN TIMES than it was back then (and even MORE liable to take shortcuts). I mean, fuck me, you know your medium is filled with hack artists who use digital technology as a crutch when an okay artist like Jim Lee is trotted about as much as he can be as 'THE GREATEST COMIC BOOK ARTIST IN MODERN TIMES OMGLGBLT!' Not Curt Swan, not George Perez, not any of the numerous Brazilian comic book artists with chops, or Jack Kirby at his best, but Mr. Cheesecake and Always Draws People With Lines over their faces and looking constipated to show how super cereal they are.

But yeah, otherwise, Vox is spot on.

Blogger LarryGriff September 28, 2017 10:19 AM  

More pics of SpaceBunny please!

Blogger Jordan179 September 28, 2017 10:19 AM  

As for physical toughness, of course Jack Kirby, even at his small size, would have been tougher than a modern social justice Warrior. Jack Kirby grew up on the streets of the thirties and forties. Social justice Warriors grow up in safe spaces in their mama's basements. it promotes an entirely different attitude.

Blogger Jordan179 September 28, 2017 10:19 AM  

As for physical toughness, of course Jack Kirby, even at his small size, would have been tougher than a modern social justice Warrior. Jack Kirby grew up on the streets of the thirties and forties. Social justice Warriors grow up in safe spaces in their mama's basements. it promotes an entirely different attitude.

Blogger Jordan179 September 28, 2017 10:19 AM  

As for physical toughness, of course Jack Kirby, even at his small size, would have been tougher than a modern social justice Warrior. Jack Kirby grew up on the streets of the thirties and forties. Social justice Warriors grow up in safe spaces in their mama's basements. it promotes an entirely different attitude.

Blogger Jordan179 September 28, 2017 10:19 AM  

Don't get dragged into the notion that Jack Kirby was a social justice Warrior. He wasn't. Yes, he had some left-wing political opinions, but he also had a sense of humor and he was brilliantly creative.

Had he been a social justice Warrior, his name would be today unknown.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 28, 2017 10:21 AM  

My dad was short and wiry, and grew up on the streets of the Bronx in the same era as Kirby, but no giant like Vox. But he was still a three sewer hitter.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:23 AM  

@13

Nate, Stan had fuck and all to do with the actual writing of comics in the 80's after he was done introducing She-Hulk in '83 or '84, and even that is dubious and probably just a promotional stunt.

In fact, even sometime beforehand, he had fuck and all to do largely with the stories being made except being the editor, and last I checked, editors only served as annoying gate keepers and tended (and still tend to. Just look at Countdown to Final Crises) to fuck shit up whenever they felt they were the writers. Period. I mean, fuck me, most of the iconic plot-lines (and even character histories and personalities) were the results of OTHER WRITERS who either took earlier stuff (good, bad, and ugly) and made it better or made new stuff that was awesome that was either maintained or ruined by later writers.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 28, 2017 10:24 AM  

@17. Aeoli Pera, "that's a napoleon complex in one photo."

To be historically accurate, Napoleon would have been about 5'8" - 5'9" by modern measurements. No one in his time thought he was particularly short, that's a modern conception of armchair historians not aware that the Foot and Inch the French were using at the time were considerably larger than the modern ones.

Kirby, on the other hand, is observably about two inches shorter than his wife, who doesn't look particularly tall.

If Kirby weighed 125 pounds, I knew a (half) Filipino girl in high school who was about 5'7". Factor in what Filipinos in the USA usually look like (stick-thin) and that she weighed about 112-118 pounds... man, Kirby was tiny. I think most reasonably fit (play tag/climb trees/etc.) seven year old children can probably pick up a 160 pound adult if they (the adult) keep their legs straight, lol.

"Did all his characters look (in the jaw line) like Hulk?"

To be fair, a lot of comic artists just... let their faces totally slip sometimes. Not sure if that's the case with Kirby, but it's a well known thing.

"That's right. In Marvel's world, King Arthur's blade is wielded by a Muslim woman."

I think that's about all the "f*** you white man" I can take in one sitting without in good conscience going out to buy a new rifle to hunt the most "dangerous" game.

"The X-Men used "mutant" has something like a proxy for "homosexual". Though it really should be mentioned that Magneto was correct: Humans & Mutants can't live together. The logical choice is to exterminate them."

I'm not sure what exactly the "mutant" was intended to be a proxy of (or if it was originally intended to be a proxy of anything, I mean, straight up evolutionary transhumans...), but yes, a lot of people have used it as an analog for homosexuals/"transsexuals"/other-types-of-degenerates, as utterly retarded as that is.

As for Magneto, yes, he's totally logical. In a world with both humans and the emergence of functionally superior transhumans, extermination of one or the other is completely inevitable given enough time. The only real question is WHO is going to be exterminated? Are the transhumans numerous/powerful/disciplined enough to win by the time the "mundanes" decide to genocide them?

"I don't know comics, but even I can tell you that Superman is a superversion of Nietzsche. He exemplifies noblesse oblige."

As far as Superman exemplifying nobless oblige, sure. As far as Nietzsche and noblesse oblige existing in the same paradigm... hell no. He wanted the polar opposite. "The only good of the weak is to serve the strong" was his motto where weak vs strong dynamics existed.

"http://infogalactic.com/info/Seduction_of_the_Innocent"

As far as that goes... who am I kidding? It goes for absolutely every means and mode of communication, entertainment and art being merely the most "unconstrained" by what they're "supposed" to be. Thus, entertainment and art are the fastest, most efficient inroads of deviancy, degeneracy, sickness and sin into the minds of the youth, where they ought to be the most glorious and clear expressions of God.

Blogger L' Aristokrato September 28, 2017 10:25 AM  

Kirby was "the original comic book SJW" in just about the same way that America always was "intended to be a melting pot".

Anonymous Jack Amok September 28, 2017 10:31 AM  

125? That's genetic disorder territory.

That's been a Featherweight (126 lbs) in Boxing since something like WW I.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:34 AM  

"however the physical art has continued to improve as technology has made production easier..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIEF0rCz9hw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29UH3Yovrn0

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 10:34 AM  

> Stan Lee together with Jack Kirby is the dictionary definition of "The whole being greater than the sum of it's parts."

Exactly.

Blogger Orville September 28, 2017 10:36 AM  

Jack Kirby makes Leo Gorcey look like the pinnacle of manliness.

Blogger Jew613 September 28, 2017 10:36 AM  

Wow, just wow. The SJWs are defecating upon the memory of a pioneer in comics and WWII vet, claiming he'd be a murderous psychopath. Sad!

Anonymous Jeigh Di September 28, 2017 10:38 AM  

Wasn't Kirby the guy who used to draw his heroes with their legs widely spread, displaying that they had no male genitalia?

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:39 AM  

@32

Jack Kirby really did look like he belonged on this, didn't he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXHVVXAcNYM

Anonymous Ledfordbot September 28, 2017 10:40 AM  

Back off! If I twist my wristwatch Jack Kirby appears and KICKS YOUR ASS!
But only after we ignore you, because we don't care.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:41 AM  

@89

No, he was the guy who had a problem with drawing ears. Him drawing his male heroes like that was just for stylistic epicness and way and is very common and precedes him in the same way that the concept of a DEW predates Star Wars or even Star Trek.

Blogger JohnofAustria September 28, 2017 10:43 AM  

Ok, I'll throw some shekels at that. I hate what they've done to a medium I used to love.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 28, 2017 10:45 AM  

@36 Howard Stone
The Kirby thing I think is a tactic to try and create a narrative that Vox has no respect for the founding fathers of comic book

Gee, I hope so, because getting "muh FOUNDERS!" as rhetoric from SJW's is fall-down funny and target-rich.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 28, 2017 10:47 AM  

That entire era was nuts from a Science & Government perspective.

We've come so far, haven't we?

Sometimes I wonder what new words future historians will invent to describe our times, words like "delusional" and "hysteria" being somewhat inadequate.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:50 AM  

@37

And that really is the crux with most modern comic book authors for the Big 2, isn't it? Most of them can't create SHIT. They can only smear shit over existing characters and call it fresh or else what they create sucks and can't hold up to scrutiny because it sucked so much. I mean, at least T'Challa, for all the 'WE WUZ KINGS AND SHEET' vibe was a cool guy. He came across as a bit of a mary sue in the vain of Batman with as much Batwank as possible, but at least he was capable, you could buy he was capable (as much as you could buy radioactive spider bites, Norse pagan gods, and power armor that allows you drill to the center of the earth and back thusly making it more powerful than all nuclear bombs on earth at the time throwing down), and he was a staunch, Wakandan nationalist whatever his gallivanting with foreign heroes and villains led to who always had his country's best interests in mind and heart.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 28, 2017 10:50 AM  

Plus the whole "Jack Kirby would kick your A$$$" bizarro-rant shows how SJW's don't have a firm grasp of reality, their fantasies are like an overlay.

Teh triggering is so tasty. It would be cruel to announce, "Eh, not gonna happen after all because reasons" to let their amygdala relax and give them a happy dance.

Then go right on ahead anyway. For the triggering. And kek.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:52 AM  

"but he also created Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur.'

Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur kick fucking ass, and really, they're about some of the most mimetic, down to earth stuff in either DC or Marvel, and certainly by Jack's standards, pretty tame.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 28, 2017 10:55 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:@17. Aeoli Pera, "that's a napoleon complex in one photo."

To be historically accurate, Napoleon would have been about 5'8" - 5'9" by modern measurements.


The term "napoleon complex" doesn't require historical context except in the etymological sense.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:

"I don't know comics, but even I can tell you that Superman is a superversion of Nietzsche. He exemplifies noblesse oblige."

As far as Superman exemplifying nobless oblige, sure. As far as Nietzsche and noblesse oblige existing in the same paradigm... hell no. He wanted the polar opposite. "The only good of the weak is to serve the strong" was his motto where weak vs strong dynamics existed.


Do you understand what "superversion" means?

Anonymous Mayonnaise September 28, 2017 11:02 AM  

@92 I hate what they've done to a medium I used to love.

SJW's ruin every great American institution they touch, but they're running out of fodder.

After the Boy Scouts and the NFL, what's left?

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 11:04 AM  

@46


"I don't know comics..."

You certainly don't and while I'm glad you're up front about it, your next lines really come off as 'Hello fellow comic booker. My, what a lovely red skies crossover event it is this evening.'

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedSkiesCrossover


"but even I can tell you that Superman is a superversion of Nietzsche. He exemplifies noblesse oblige."

Yeah... maybe in the 40's when written by Shuster and Siegel or else written by people who held true to whatever it is you're going on about, but buddy... we've had a world war, Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq War, Afghanistan War, and Iraq War MK. 2 since then and dozens of different writers and editorial mandates for the Man of Steel, alright? I admit, whatever weirdo you think Superman to be would probably be better than the downright lefty he and every other character of the big 2 have been transformed into, but dude, Truth, Justice, and the American way is the most iconic take on Superman that originated in Post-WW2 America and even toned down versions between Post-WW2 America and the 2000's are about as Nietzsche as Steve Ditko, and in case you don't know, Ditko was a flippin' objectivist whose ideology constantly did seep into his work and made at least one originally blatantly ideologically objectivist character, The Question... until he chose a lipstick, lesbian Hispanic chick to be his replacement, because 2006 sucked as cool as 52 was.

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 11:08 AM  

> Sometimes I wonder what new words future historians will invent to describe our times, words like "delusional" and "hysteria" being somewhat inadequate.

Heinlein called them "the crazy years".

Anonymous VD now September 28, 2017 11:09 AM  

Um, VD, that picture is really old.

I know Kirby is dead but you really shouldn't be bragging about the shape of your body these days. You've really chubbed up. Your a chubby dude, no disrespect.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 28, 2017 11:15 AM  

@98. Aeoli Pera, "Do you understand what "superversion" means?"

...It certainly doesn't mean changing things to be the opposite of what they are, it just means "turning upward". Perhaps you're applying Nietzsche's paradigm within our paradigm, so "superverion" meaning that it's becoming more like ours (the better one)?

Perhaps the word you're looking for is "subversion"? That at least has the cultural (mis)use behind it as a synonym of "reverse".

Blogger FALPhil September 28, 2017 11:16 AM  

Well, the comic book SJWs are certainly turning up the heat. Now an artist for TMNT series wants to murder all GOP politicians.

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2017/09/27/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-comic-writer-tweets-death-gop/

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 28, 2017 11:19 AM  

"You've really chubbed up. Your a chubby dude, no disrespect."

If by chubby you mean he looks like a cold-weather-adapted body type now, sure. I wouldn't call him fat by any means, and the most direct other person I can think of that looks like him was the CFL (Command Fitness Leader) at my last Naval command. Sure, there's a bit of fat on top, but there's a lot of muscle underneath too.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 28, 2017 11:28 AM  

They really are protective of their comics.

It's an area where they thought they'd won and the war was over. "Progressives" see the world that way, as an endless "progression" in the direction of their goals, sometimes resisted but never reversed. They think once they've taken a piece of territory in the culture war, they should never have to defend it. It's why they treat a "right" that was invented in a courtroom yesterday as if it always was and always will be. It's why they're lazy and have no tenacity; they've never had to fight to hold something.

I don't know much about comics, but my impression from readers is that they're beaten down and just taking what they can get. If they're older, they know comics used to be better, but they enjoy the medium and some of the characters enough that they try to filter through what's out there to find the least-bad.

It's as if the NFL a decade from now had converted to flag football, half the players and 3/4 of the refs were women and trannies, and they'd replaced the anthem with a rendition of YMCA by the Village People. There would still be a lot of fans, telling themselves, "Well, it still looks like football, and it's the best we've got. At least I can play fantasy with it." But there would be a massive opportunity for someone who could offer the real thing, and the threat would be obvious as soon as that was suggested.

They know non-SJW comics will beat them badly, if they can't use their market dominance to keep them down.

Blogger Arthur Isaac September 28, 2017 11:34 AM  

When does the SJW purity spiral eat Kirby's legacy? He is apparently male,(((white))), hetero and "cisgendered". His words must be the epitome of oppression to the intersectionally inclined.

Blogger Tara Li September 28, 2017 11:37 AM  

*shrugs* I expect the really triggering one would be the SJWs wondering whether to hire the creator of Wonder Woman.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) September 28, 2017 11:40 AM  

Jack Kirby was a pseudonym.
His real name is Jack Wa...uugghh.

Blogger VD September 28, 2017 11:42 AM  

Um, VD, that picture is really old. I know Kirby is dead but you really shouldn't be bragging about the shape of your body these days. You've really chubbed up. Your a chubby dude, no disrespect.

So is that screencap from two years ago that SJWs have been passing around. I'm not even remotely chubby, having cut from 192 down to 180 pounds, which is only two or three pounds more than I was in those two pictures. Now, I'm not benching 325 these days, so I'm not quite as lean, but I'm biking 10-12 km per day even on lifting days and I'm back up to being able to play a full 90-minute game in attack or 60-65 minutes on the wing.

Also, I checked it out at the gym today. Assuming Jack Kirby weighed 125, which may have been giving him five pounds, I can curl him four times. Six if I cheat. At peak, eight times, easy.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) September 28, 2017 11:46 AM  

"half the players and 3/4 of the refs were women and trannies, and they'd replaced the anthem with a rendition of YMCA by the Village People. There would still be a lot of fans, telling themselves, "Well, it still looks like football, and it's the best we've got. At least I can play fantasy with it."

Sicko

Anonymous Avalanche September 28, 2017 11:52 AM  

@59 "That is something a small, not particularly bright, child would do. If they had not been raised correctly."

Perfectly described. And true.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera September 28, 2017 11:54 AM  

Emmanuel Mateo-Morales,

Same question: do you know what superversion means?

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 28, 2017 11:59 AM  

97. Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 10:52 AM
kick fucking ass, and really, they're
...
pretty tame.


somebody is REALLY confused about the point he was trying to make.

did Squirrel Girl run past your window while you were in the middle of typing that?


100. Emmanuel Mateo-Morales September 28, 2017 11:04 AM
My, what a lovely red skies crossover event it is this evening.'



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCM4_5uB1ww

Anonymous Uncle John's Band September 28, 2017 12:02 PM  

Kirby grew up the way men typically did in a pre-safe space world, learning to stand up for yourself or get stepped on. It’s just that in the soft ignorance of SJW world, the idea that you would fight an antagonist despite being smaller is unfathomable to the point that it assumes legendary status.

I always saw Kirby as a wellspring of a certain sort of far out cosmic creativity, but limited by a consistent grandiose monotone and flat, repetitive characterization. Lee had a knack for humanizing dialogue and humour that was corny, but enlivening, and gave his characters distinct, instantly recognizable voices. I think Lee’s hammy style worked because he (unlike SJWs) wrote entirely without snark or irony, allowing the grandeur of Kirby’s concepts to fully shine. This is clearest in their long Fantastic Four collaboration, starting around issue 35-40. Their Thor is even better is some ways, despite the shitty inking.

Kirby was best at bombastic action scenes, with a simple, kinetic style that jumped off the page. Contemporary comics eschew action for poorly composed group posturing scenes and narratives that make Beckett seem like a page turner. You can’t get much further from SJW Marvel than Jack Kirby.

Blogger Stilicho September 28, 2017 12:08 PM  

Hell, SB could've mopped the floor with Kirby.

Blogger tuberman September 28, 2017 12:09 PM  

VD now wrote:Um, VD, that picture is really old.

I know Kirby is dead but you really shouldn't be bragging about the shape of your body these days. You've really chubbed up. Your a chubby dude, no disrespect.



What kind of "Shape" would a corpse be in now. You dig!

It's logical to compare past with past, as Kirby would be a bit stinking raw now.

Blogger Tim_W_Burke September 28, 2017 12:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

OpenID timwburke.com September 28, 2017 12:18 PM  

Edit to add "Kirby's intentions or sympathies". For some reason I can't delete the previous comment.

Blogger Tim_W_Burke September 28, 2017 12:20 PM  

Damn, this internet thingee...

My comment is: "So no one is arguing Kirby's intentions or sympathies. Well done. These guys are easily manipulated."

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 12:27 PM  

> I always saw Kirby as a wellspring of a certain sort of far out cosmic creativity, but limited by a consistent grandiose monotone and flat, repetitive characterization.

That would be a fair assessment. He was also prodigious in his output though. While his artwork was limited he produced an absolutely amazing quantity of it.

Blogger tuberman September 28, 2017 12:33 PM  

The comparison of VD to Jack is so absurd that it goes way beyond size and intensity. The training for serious martial arts practitioners, and strength due to all sorts of training knowledge has taken a huge leap over the generations. It was already a huge leap for my generations past the pre-WWII generations. The two generations since mine are vastly better trained than my generation's serious trainers.

There is no proof that Jack was even serious in any way about physical training. VD has been very serious about his physical training.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 28, 2017 12:41 PM  

@97 Emmanuel Mateo-Morales

"but he also created Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur.'

Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur kick fucking ass, and really, they're about some of the most mimetic, down to earth stuff in either DC or Marvel, and certainly by Jack's standards, pretty tame.
---

They were kick ass for a kid of that time. I mean we have dinosaurs, planet of the apes and animal people. Sounds great for a young imagination.

Anonymous Prairie Boy September 28, 2017 12:49 PM  

King Arthur and Holger Dansk come back to life, Team-Up and not only drive the muslims from Europe but drive the SJWs from comics. Now,that is a comic series/graphic novel I would support...

Anonymous Tyson September 28, 2017 12:50 PM  

Please note that Kirby's (and Marvel's) greatest and most successful comic, Fantastic Four, was cancelled a few years ago.

They couldn't make it fit the SJW narrative so they corrupted the hell out of it and drive off the core readers.

Blogger VD September 28, 2017 12:54 PM  

The comparison of VD to Jack is so absurd that it goes way beyond size and intensity. The training for serious martial arts practitioners, and strength due to all sorts of training knowledge has taken a huge leap over the generations.

Yeah, the switch to MMA, which was just beginning when I was training, has made a big difference. Back then, we could still take one-discipline guys by surprise by mixing things up. These days, everyone is familiar with at least the basics of striking, kicking, and grappling.

But it is kind of funny. The thing is, these Comics SJWs have no idea who I am, or that I was an elite D1 athlete. They think I'm some fat old bald guy on the Internet.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents September 28, 2017 12:54 PM  

Jack Kirby is clearly standing a step higher because short.

Where does Jack Ward stand?

Blogger Chris Mallory September 28, 2017 12:56 PM  

Kirby's tough guy story: Nearly losing his legs to frostbite while serving with the 11th Infantry during the Battle of the Bulge and earning both the Combat Infantryman Badge and a Bronze Star.

Vox's tough guy story: Getting his nose broke during a refereed sparring match.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 28, 2017 12:57 PM  

VD
The thing is, these Comics SJWs have no idea

Pretty much. No idea about anything.

Interesting how the same people who live in a Safe Space bubble obviously have violent fantasies.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 28, 2017 1:02 PM  

@128
Dude, it's the SJW's who are all "Jack Kirby would kick Vox's A$$". Take it up with them. But any A$$-kicking is one-on-one stuff, not dug-in-on-a-hillside-with-artillery-support. So Kirby's WWII experience might not be so relevant in the SJW fantasy world.

Plus nobody here is running down Ward's service record.

Blogger SgtGideonsDad September 28, 2017 1:43 PM  

You didn't reset your nose yourself!

Blogger Ingot9455 September 28, 2017 1:49 PM  

Where would we be without thick, slablike Kirby fingers and the classic Kirby 'cosmic power balls'?

Blogger Jimmy The Freak September 28, 2017 1:55 PM  

A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents wrote:Jack Kirby is clearly standing a step higher because short.

Where does Jack Ward stand?



Does it really matter? All you need to know about Jack Ward is HE STANDS!

Anonymous Wooly September 28, 2017 1:57 PM  

What an incredible and educational thread. My head is spinning.

Vox, I vote for "Hero Comics".

Leave off the "Alt" for the imprimatur, if you want the whole audience.

I got banned from either RPS or Destructoid for praising them for being the "most alt-right gaming site on the internet", because they allowed actual conversation.

I was wrong. That was my first and last post there, because they banned me.

HERO COMICS. Not Castalia Comics.

HERO COMICS. Fills a void, rolls off the tongue, makes sense.

Anonymous Wooly September 28, 2017 2:09 PM  

Save the Castalia imprimatur for the Arts of Dark and Light graphic novels.

Anonymous 2106 Things I Hate September 28, 2017 2:14 PM  

Nice first pic, I remember when I still had a (visible) 6-pack.

Was this when you were hitting 300+ on the bench?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 28, 2017 2:14 PM  

Wooly wrote:I was wrong. That was my first and last post there, because they banned me.
To be fair to them, they probably thought you were an alt-Retard. If I thought that, I'd ban you too. Even Vox would, and he'll put up with all sorts of stupidity and nonsense.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable September 28, 2017 2:21 PM  

the classic Kirby 'cosmic power balls'?

That must've been how his characters procreated, since it's evident they didn't have genitalia.

Anonymous Wooly September 28, 2017 2:22 PM  

Or I might have been alt-drunk and speaking my mind.

Be that as it may, and it was...

Vox could have and maybe should hsve banned me here a few times for posting stupidity and nonsense. Glad he didn't. This place, with Ilk's comments, is a daily read, for the education and entertainment, for years.

Blogger Pseudotsuga September 28, 2017 2:29 PM  

Y'know, this whole Comix = SJW themes seems to me similar to college sophomores (and I use the original meaning) when they are first introduced to theory X -- whether X is Marxism, Marxism lite, Freudian psychology, intersectionalism, or whatever their professor siphons to them.
Without exposure to other theories, or without having to actually test (rather than just know about) the theories, their lives change as they finally see the answer to everything wrong in their lives and the world. They start seeing theory X everywhere, and starting thinking about theory X can be applied everywhere.
Same thing here in comic land: SJWs have been taught that 'social justice' is the hammer for every social ill, and so they think that people like Kirby applied the same measure. (But not Hitler, of course, because NATIONAL socialism ain't the RIGHT socialism, don'cha know.)

Blogger James Dixon September 28, 2017 2:31 PM  

> Vox could have and maybe should hsve banned me here a few times for posting stupidity and nonsense.

We're all idiots on occasion. Vox knows that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 28, 2017 2:39 PM  

Wooly wrote:Vox could have and maybe should hsve banned me here a few times for posting stupidity and nonsense.
hell, if he hasn't banned me, I can't imagine you're even on the radar.

Anonymous Avalanche September 28, 2017 2:50 PM  

@91 OT, but cued by: "the concept of a DEW"

Just a day ago read Jerry Pournelle's intro to some story (in War 10 I believe it was), where he wrote that directed energy weapons already existed in, like, the 1960s! Whoa! If Pournelle says that, it is probably so, and probably the gummint knows WAY more than they let us peons know.

So. How does THAT snippet of probability mesh with Dr. Judy Wood and her "WTC towers were destroyed BY DEWs" -- and the heaps of scorn slung on her by "orthodox" (oopsie -- bad thing to be in any field?) 911-truthers? I've watched a couple of Judy Wood's videos -- she SEEMS to have some solid stuff, and then some laugh-her-off-the-stage stupidity!

Wood: "The surface of 'The Pit' must've been above a couple thousand degrees (!) because the firemen were complaining about their steel-toed boots melting from the heat -- and it takes that much heat to melt steel. I don't know why it didn't burn their feet!"

Oh, for crying out loud you IDIOT!! The CREPE SOLES around the steel toe-cup was melting, NOT THE STEEL!


Wood: "Some of the EMS folks said they watched in horror as the buildings fell -- but it was SILENT!! They didn't HEAR anything!"

Did you ever think to look into the common knowledge amongst cops, military, and educated gun owners that, when under threat of death, your hearing goes strange? Either you can hear and understand whispers at 30 feet or you can't hear your own gun discharging in your hand? It's not some weird weapon, it's normal, natural human perception.

So her lack of proper investigation into topics I know about calls into question ALL her topics where I'm not so sure. But, if Jerry Pournelle says: yes, "we" have directed energy weapons.... hmmmmm.

Anonymous Avalanche September 28, 2017 2:53 PM  

@97 Hey Emmanuel? Enough with the constant swearing, eh? One of the blog rules is to avoid swearing. You may not have been here recently when Vox reminded us, so you may not be 'up-to-date' .... but you're sure not 'up-to-snuff'!

OpenID marsascendant September 28, 2017 2:58 PM  

I have no doubt that Kirby would have bitch slapped the average SJW and yes he was a small guy. But he was also an army scout in occupied europe who fought in the battle of the bulge and earned a bronze star. I am a regular reader, an occasional commenter and I respect you Vox. But when it comes to "tough guy cred" King Kirby has you outclassed by a country mile.

Blogger roughcoat September 28, 2017 3:38 PM  

Being a combat veteran doesn't magically make a man capable of winning a fight against a trained opponent who is 50+ pounds heavier.

And a Bronze Star with no V device doesn't add to "tough guy cred" at all. He probably got it for his scouting.

I'm glad Kirby performed valuable service in the war, but let's not get carried away here.

Blogger Edwin Boyette September 28, 2017 3:39 PM  

Eh I was Infantry for 8 years, 11B - there's a difference between soldier "tough" and a straight up fist fight. Training specifically to fight, and outweighing your opponent by 50 pounds is a huge advantage. Kirby was certainly tough - but not that kind of tough. It's a completely ludicrous fantasy that can only be entertained by someone who has never had their nose broken.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) September 28, 2017 3:40 PM  

no one is deprecating Kirby's personal bravery.

we're deprecating the idea that Kirby could single handedly thrash someone who out weighs him by 50lbs in unarmed combat. especially when that opponent is very physically fit and has MMA training.

it's like saying Kirby could beat up Captain America, although that would be even more extreme.

and truly, being that Vox is an Amerindian-Mexican-Anglo mix with dark hair, why shouldn't he be Captain America?

that's certainly more befitting and inclusive of our multicultural heritage than blond ubermensch, Steve Rogers.

that would be hilarious.

Steve Rogers has already revealed himself to be a Nazi. so Vox should trans adopt the name and uniform and beat Rogers up.

Blogger VD September 28, 2017 3:49 PM  

But he was also an army scout in occupied europe who fought in the battle of the bulge and earned a bronze star. I am a regular reader, an occasional commenter and I respect you Vox. But when it comes to "tough guy cred" King Kirby has you outclassed by a country mile.

What part of "I made the Commandant of the USMC tap out in less than 7 seconds" was hard to understand? He's plenty tough and he had no chance at all.

I've sparred with 235-pound Marines and beaten them easily. Trust me, toughness and combat experience doesn't help AT ALL in compensating for speed, strength, training, and experience. I respect soldiers, but I have zero fear of them in unarmed combat. They're much closer to the average individual than they are to a trained fighter with elite speed.

And even at my age, I'm still faster than most 18-year-olds. For the first 10-15 minutes, anyway.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 28, 2017 3:51 PM  

"I leave it to the reader to guess which image below is Mr. Kirby's work and which is not."

Broad on the left must be half-ogre. Chick on the right looks more anatomically correct.

I'm wondering if it's some sort of Gamma/Omega/(Lambda?) thing to fantasize about women who look like men. I don't think it's limited to Scalzi with his "freakishly strong" wife and daughter who lifts more than he does.

Anonymous Man of the Atom September 28, 2017 4:24 PM  

Tyson wrote:"Please note that Kirby's (and Marvel's) greatest and most successful comic, Fantastic Four, was cancelled a few years ago.

They couldn't make it fit the SJW narrative so they corrupted the hell out of it and drive off the core readers."


Just as likely Disney pushed to close the FF comics down to suck the air from Fox.
Obviously, Disney wants Fox to relinquish the movie rights for the Fantastic Four to move into the MCU pantheon.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 28, 2017 4:25 PM  

roughcoat wrote:And a Bronze Star with no V device doesn't add to "tough guy cred" at all. He probably got it for his scouting.
My dad earned 3 Bronze Stars, one with oak leaves and a Silver Star, and two Purple Hearts fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. In 3.5 years he never once engaged in personal combat.
He was a forward artillery spotter and radioman. No shortage of courage, but it says nothing about his toughness or ability to fight.

OpenID marsascendant September 28, 2017 4:56 PM  

VD -What part of "I made the Commandant of the USMC tap out in less than 7 seconds" was hard to understand? He's plenty tough and he had no chance at all.

I've sparred with 235-pound Marines and beaten them easily. Trust me, toughness and combat experience doesn't help AT ALL in compensating for speed, strength, training, and experience. I respect soldiers, but I have zero fear of them in unarmed combat. They're much closer to the average individual than they are to a trained fighter with elite speed.

And even at my age, I'm still faster than most 18-year-olds. For the first 10-15 minutes, anyway.

Im not commenting on a hypothetical fight between you and and a dead guy. Don't know, don't care. Just pointing out that going down the elevator to a lobby is far from his "tough guy story".

Blogger Raben Wulf September 28, 2017 5:40 PM  

I really do hope the Alt-Hero art is better than what is depicted. Its a great idea that should not come across as amateur if at all possible.

Blogger roughcoat September 28, 2017 5:53 PM  

And you think the art should be like... what, exactly?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 28, 2017 6:46 PM  

I think the art is pretty good. Reminiscent of Dan DiCarlo, to be honest.
If you don't know, that's high praise. DiCarlo designed all the classic Archie characters and drew girly cartoons for magazines as well.

Blogger Skyler the Weird September 28, 2017 6:47 PM  

The SJWS love Kirby cause his Women like Big Barda or Beautiful Dreamed looked like Trangenders. They don't understand he just couldn't draw Women.

Blogger Raben Wulf September 28, 2017 6:56 PM  

@155
At least matching or better yet, surpassing the expectation for mainstream comic book art (preferably a bit older than the new stuff). You have two kinds of art for comics, one which is generally considered "professional" (yet does not necessarily require a professional to make) and "fan art", which tends to have a lot amateur styling (over use of soft brush coloring for example).

Some stuff I consider good:
Example 1 https://kek.gg/i/7psvv3.jpeg (strong use of ink/color process, example is from Batman Hush),
Example 2 (Stephan Platt: Soul Saga) https://kek.gg/i/5F9VL3.jpeg (also heavy on inking before coloring)
Example 3 (anything by Marc Silvestri) https://kek.gg/i/6k8xFt.jpeg
Example 4 (Hunter Killer) https://kek.gg/i/4BKZSk.jpeg
Example 5 (Sky Doll, less ink heavy) https://kek.gg/i/34V4dq.jpeg

Granted, the artist does not need to use a lot of inking, but importance on line art as well as depicting exaggerated movement is fairly important. Coloring is just the icing on the cake. The last thing alt-hero wants to look like (or look worse than), in my opinion, is the fan content you find on webtoon or deviant art.

Anonymous Man of the Atom September 28, 2017 7:15 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:I think the art is pretty good. Reminiscent of Dan DiCarlo, to be honest.

If you don't know, that's high praise. DiCarlo designed all the classic Archie characters and drew girly cartoons for magazines as well.


And at one time, for Millie the Model.

Now all of Marvel is just Millie the Model. Zombie version.

Blogger roughcoat September 28, 2017 7:37 PM  

@158

You're talking about style, not quality, and which you prefer is a matter of taste.

I don't even know how you could draw the line between "professional" and "amateur" styles given the incredibly broad range used in professionally produced comics; you have to include incredibly simple art used in Powerpuff Girls comics in the professional column, after all. The first thing I'd look for in making that call is consistency, but I haven't really thought about it.

I don't think the art looks amateurish at all. It's just a different style than what you linked.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf September 28, 2017 7:56 PM  

I misread the article and thought it said many SJW think of Kirby as their 'father'. I wonder if there could be some true to that? Some (not all) kids didn't have a father at home (me for example). Some of those kids read comics as a sort of replacement. I read a lot of fantasy, science fiction and (for some reason) Roman history - probably because of their relationship via their Gods. Anyway, I do wonder how many of these SJW simply missed out on having a father at home? Or had a self-centered one that we visited twice a month like me? Probably a lot. I'm keen to buy Alt-Hero. Mainly because I think the stories will be fun to read. It'll be the first comic book I ever book since I was maybe 14 and used to buy a comic to take in the car on the way up north (mid-west thing). Oh, I did used to LOVE reading MAD. That was great fun :)

Blogger Raben Wulf September 28, 2017 8:43 PM  

@160

1) I am talking about quality and quality can often relate to style, especially when its linked to a visual medium. I am not arguing art style though, however you cannot remove the importance of art style as it relates to a specific genre of comics. It is the difference between super hero comics and say something like the "funny pages" in a news paper. Alt Hero is clearly targeting the super hero genre as it relates to comics. There is some expectation of visual consistency with regards to the genre. In the same vein, Japanese style comic are called Manga. Why? Because style is part of the equation.

2) I used "quotations" for a reason, with the inclusion that one does not necessarily have to be a professional to match the "expectation" of such. You can easily draw a line between good and "amateur". Its simple, does it look closer to the best the comic book industry has shown us, or does it look closer to what kids/fans are doing on social media? We can observe where it falls on that kind of spectrum. I am talking as well from experience, I use most of the tools digital comic book artist use though with a focus on 3D content rather than 2D.

So far what I have seen comes is really not impressive. There is always a time constraint involved as well, the faster you have to work, more often the quality suffers. Its entirely possible that their abilities will improve over time, as is seen with a lot of "webtoon" artist. First impressions are important though, which is why a lot of comic book franchises will pull some of the best artist to work on the first series of books before other artist take over. By then they are hoping you are hooked enough and wont care about the quality dropping.

The quality seen so far is objectively not that great, its not just preferring a different style. This is an honest observation.

Blogger John Calabro September 28, 2017 8:49 PM  

I don't think Jack Kirby would of ever pick a fight you today if he was alive. Not counting his age, strength or anything else. It is more because he would probably would want to work with you instead. He would never get a job with Marvel today and why would he hang out with SJWs, he would want to hang out with the Cool people.

Blogger WynnLloyd September 28, 2017 9:41 PM  

Lmao! Glad someone else noticed that.

Blogger WynnLloyd September 28, 2017 9:42 PM  

I think he was maki g a sarcastic joke about the one guy's absurd pants.

Blogger WynnLloyd September 28, 2017 9:45 PM  

Oh wait. You were joking too. Sorry I currently am running a fever.

Blogger WynnLloyd September 28, 2017 9:57 PM  

Even if he has gained weight (I'm not seeing it) he still likely has all that muscle underneath.

Anonymous B September 29, 2017 11:55 AM  

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