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Saturday, October 21, 2017

Alt★Hero site

Since there is a fair amount of interest in an Alt★Hero site, I'm considering moving down the goal to 135k and adding a new goal at 150k. To increase the chances the campaign gets there, I'm also thinking of adding a site-related Reward for those specifically backing a site.

What should the amount be and what are some of the possible site-related rewards we could give that would be of interest?

Discuss amongst yourselves.


Labels:

77 Comments:

Blogger Matthew October 21, 2017 3:12 PM  

Pigeon-toed is hot (if the girl is hot).

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 21, 2017 3:27 PM  

Yes to the lower reward on the site. Maybe a conversion for a table top rpg at $150k?

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 21, 2017 3:33 PM  

You know she dresses like that for the fourth of July parade and drives in the powder puff demo derby. Her niece is one of the town princesses and rides the town float. Bugtussle also has a great fireworks show.

Anonymous Eli October 21, 2017 3:59 PM  

I'm guessing it's too early to request an alt hero video game series. Someday...someday. I like the table top rpg idea that Brick mentioned as well.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar October 21, 2017 4:00 PM  

This is all happening so fast.

Blogger MJ Meyers October 21, 2017 4:10 PM  

How about a card game as a reward? I don't know how difficult printing cards is for Castalia House. But I think it'd be easy to just use assets from the comics to create a fun card game, mimicking the style of many popular series out there.

Of course, this idea is coming from someone who doesn't play card games (like Yu-gi-oh etc.). I'm just putting it out there. But it'd be fun to gather together with people locally of the same mindset, have a few beers, and good conversation over an Alt-Hero card game.

A lot of the ideas people have are just way too expensive or time-consuming to create, like aps, video games, etc. $130K isn't a whole lot of money. We should be thinking of rewards that are fun, but not terribly expensive or time-consuming to implement. As Vox points out, I think almost 100% of the time should be spent making the best art possible for the comics.

Anonymous Just another commenter October 21, 2017 4:14 PM  

Ordinary playing cards, printed with the various characters. Four groups = four suits. Rebel gets to be a queen for the Free American suit, Rainbow gets to be the queen for the EU. Do't know about the rest. Maybe it needs to wait until you have 52 characters, though.

Not strictly web-related, beyond poling for who goes on what card, but would be very cool down the road.

Anonymous CPEG October 21, 2017 4:19 PM  

"What should the amount be and what are some of the possible site-related rewards we could give that would be of interest?"

I can't speak for anybody else but I can't imagine anything website-related that I would want to spend much on. I could imagine myself throwing in $10 or so if there was a subscriber-only section that would receive regular status updates, sometimes with sufficiently non-spoiler sample or draft art.

Also, is there a way to rework pledges without going through Freestartr support? Either I'm missing a button somewhere on the UI, or Freestartr doesn't have this basic functionality.

Anonymous Causal Lurker October 21, 2017 4:24 PM  

Faithful Sidekick privileges for one interest room or board on the site? Not a moderator, but a knowledge master for the topic. Maybe gets some comment privileges or a special spt character pic for comments. Hesitant to suggest any higher privileges because or troll and entryist proliferation.

I like the card game idea. If cost can be kept reasonable, it becomes another commodity for sale and use by the younger set. And Dad can get the Alt-Heroine collector card set.

Anonymous JAG October 21, 2017 4:47 PM  

Table top RPGs, CCGs, video games, all great suggestions. The RPG and video game ideas could be merged into an online MMORPG. I mentioned City of Heroes in a recent thread on this topic. A modernized version of that based upon the Alt*Hero fictional setting of Avalon would be something I would play.

Blogger Dave October 21, 2017 4:49 PM  

I'm also thinking of adding a site-related Reward for those specifically backing a site.

Allow the backers to choose from website-specific (think Infogalatic Burn Unit) items such as:

> T-shirt
> Hat
> Poster
> Ability to customize Forum profiles

Create a separate reward for each item and then each backer could choose one item or multiple items or all items.

Blogger Dave October 21, 2017 4:52 PM  

Not to mention need a catchy name for the website and should be registered soon, eh?

Blogger VD October 21, 2017 4:58 PM  

Okay, just got off the phone with someone who is very good at what he does. We'll have some interesting things to announce tomorrow.

Blogger Dave October 21, 2017 5:12 PM  

Interestinger and interestinger.


On the site: website backers only...
>periodic ask me anythings with artists/writers
>sneak peaks or previews
>short podcasts where backers co-interview artists/writers

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 5:17 PM  

CPEG wrote:subscriber-only section that would receive regular status updates, sometimes with sufficiently non-spoiler sample or draft art.

THIS^^^^

Also maybe interaction with whoever....whomever?.....is working on the books at the time in the backers/vip section. Nothing too time consuming for them. Just a place we know they would have a better chance of seeing a question or a comment and in turn a better chance of it being answered. Also some sites let you have a banner under your posts or a quote. Some let you earn titles displayed under your name for how much you post. Give backers some unreachable title for non backers. Lol, like "Supreme Dark Apprentice".

Thanks Vox for considering lowering the goal to make sure we will make it. A website will keep morale and optics up.

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 5:18 PM  

Damn it dAve you took mine. ;)

Blogger D. Bay October 21, 2017 5:39 PM  

Vox, will you be accepting submissions of comic book scripts for future issues of the Alt★Hero titles?

Blogger The Observer October 21, 2017 5:41 PM  

CPEG wrote:I could imagine myself throwing in $10 or so if there was a subscriber-only section that would receive regular status updates, sometimes with sufficiently non-spoiler sample or draft art.

Also, is there a way to rework pledges without going through Freestartr support? Either I'm missing a button somewhere on the UI, or Freestartr doesn't have this basic functionality.


As far as I know, the paywall content model is a little hard to keep up; other places which have tried the model like magazines and newspapers generally tend not to make a lot.

There is currently no way to rework pledges.

Brick Hardslab wrote:Yes to the lower reward on the site. Maybe a conversion for a table top rpg at $150k?

I believe Vox mentioned in a recent darkstream that there was already someone looking to set a TTRPG in the setting.

Just another commenter wrote:Ordinary playing cards, printed with the various characters. Four groups = four suits.

Believe there are 5 factions (China, Russia, EU, UN, Vigilantes), but an ordinary deck of playing cards sounds nice.

***

I am still going to push my idea of an official wiki attached to the site. Edit rights go to paying subscribers only, in order to help prevent the vandalism which is inevitably going to occur otherwise. Maybe do with it some of whatever you're planning to do with Infogalactic? That way people can look at, say, Captain Europa from their desired viewpoint.

It would also make filling out information on the locations and characters much, much quicker and easier than one of the team going out to do it on their own.

Blogger Man of the Atom October 21, 2017 5:42 PM  

Dave wrote:Interestinger and interestinger.

On the site: website backers only...
>periodic ask me anythings with artists/writers
>sneak peaks or previews
>short podcasts where backers co-interview artists/writers


* Website backer (or designee) interviews of artists and writers, or backers select topics for said interviews.

* Backer

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 5:46 PM  

New $150,000 goal. A random drawing of all backers who have physical copies of the comic books or novels being ordered. 20 winners will get signed copies by the artists and authors. I got nothing for digital only folks.......sorry guys.

Blogger The Observer October 21, 2017 6:03 PM  

Thot wrote:New $150,000 goal. A random drawing of all backers who have physical copies of the comic books or novels being ordered. 20 winners will get signed copies by the artists and authors. I got nothing for digital only folks.......sorry guys.



Might be hard to fit hundreds of them in a single drawing. I don't think that's feasible.

Blogger VD October 21, 2017 6:06 PM  

Also, is there a way to rework pledges without going through Freestartr support?

No.

I am still going to push my idea of an official wiki attached to the site. Edit rights go to paying subscribers only, in order to help prevent the vandalism which is inevitably going to occur otherwise.

That's a good idea. Maybe comments for all backers, ability to create new posts only for subscribers/original site Reward backers.

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 6:07 PM  

The Observer wrote:Might be hard to fit hundreds of them in a single drawing. I don't think that's feasible.

.....i see what you did there........................

Blogger Dave October 21, 2017 6:08 PM  

The Observer wrote:CPEG wrote:I could imagine myself throwing in $10 or so if there was a subscriber-only section that would receive regular status updates, sometimes with sufficiently non-spoiler sample or draft art.

Also, is there a way to rework pledges without going through Freestartr support? Either I'm missing a button somewhere on the UI, or Freestartr doesn't have this basic functionality.


As far as I know, the paywall content model is a little hard to keep up; other places which have tried the model like magazines and newspapers generally tend not to make a lot.

There is currently no way to rework pledges.


I didn't really take it as a paywall concern; more a method for interested parties to back an Alt Hero related website and support the startup and operation for the first year or two. Part of backing the website would provide particular backer-only benefits.


Additional pledges can be accumulated; however to delete something at this time it appears you need to contact Freestartr support.

Blogger Edgar Abbey October 21, 2017 7:11 PM  

To those talking about a table-top RPG, I think it would be interesting to see the AltHero characters converted into existing RPG rules. Examples:

1. Villains & Vigilantes
2. Champions/Hero Games
3. GURPS Supers
4. Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 21, 2017 7:12 PM  

Up-vote for Wiki, Forum, and possible gallery for fan art on the website.

What about subscriber/backer early preview of select art or story synopses?

Original art may be a good option for backers as well. Signed pages for interior art or cover art? Lithos of digital art might work as well for those creators who build in-machine only.

Blogger Alfred Genesson October 21, 2017 7:18 PM  

A good card game would be longer to create than a LOT of other ideas. Balancing cards is really difficult, not to mention getting the rules tweaked to where things are right.

While it might be a good idea, it's more of one for later. In many ways a tabletop RPG is easier, as is an MMO. Both of those are going to be more clearly coop(at least teams), where there's examples of coop and competitive cardgames in the hero genre already. Legendary, DC, and Sentinels of the Multiverse all come to mind.

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 21, 2017 7:22 PM  

Edgar Abbey wrote:To those talking about a table-top RPG, I think it would be interesting to see the Alt★Hero characters converted into existing RPG rules. Examples:

1. Villains & Vigilantes
2. Champions/Hero Games
3. GURPS Supers
4. Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game



Get the ACKS gang going on a new Alt★Hero system Kickstarter or modify their existing game mechanics. Their current one is going nicely for Pulp Adventure.

Blogger daddynichol October 21, 2017 7:22 PM  

Playing cards? Print a regulation deck with one character on the back. Collect every deck. Rebel would the first naturally.

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 7:49 PM  

@29 yeah but maybe the deck with Rebel as the queen of hearts, Dymanique as the queen of diamonds, Ryu as queen of spades.......rainbow as the queen of clubs?

Blogger maniacprovost October 21, 2017 8:09 PM  

$100 Be a Moderator
$200 Make up an arbitrary Forum rule
$500 Web developer will use whatever language / package / programming paradigm you select

Anonymous Roger Semont October 21, 2017 8:32 PM  

Interesting that most of the Alt Hero renderings that have come out so far don't show an American Flag, but the flag of the Confederate States of America. I thought the Alt Heros would be on the winning side, and would support freedom as one of their core values?

Anonymous Alt-Hiro October 21, 2017 8:35 PM  

"What should the amount be and what are some of the possible site-related rewards we could give that would be of interest?"

How about saying when the book will come out?

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 21, 2017 8:36 PM  

@31 Make the web developer work in FORTH.

(I think I'm learning from the master cruelty artist.)

Blogger Meng Greenleaf October 21, 2017 8:51 PM  

I think a wiki dedicated to the comics is a good idea. As for Backers, I'm not sure, that should probably be a fan ran thing (which would include backers, but some people just wouldn't have heard of Alt*Hero in time to back it). I'd think autographs on the books and posters etc.... would be be great for members backing the website. Kind of a bonus.

Blogger The Observer October 21, 2017 9:15 PM  

@35: I believe VD mentioned that due to the geographical location of the people involved, autographs are going to be problematic.

Anonymous Planter October 21, 2017 9:55 PM  

I like the autograph angle for the fact it will not take away money from the project. Maybe a raffle of some sorts?

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 10:21 PM  

Lol that's what I meant by draw in my post. As in draw names for those who get autographs.

Blogger Matthew October 21, 2017 10:32 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:@31 Make the web developer work in FORTH.

(I think I'm learning from the master cruelty artist.)


I've been looking for an excuse to use FORTH for years.

Blogger Akulkis October 21, 2017 10:43 PM  

OT: Johnson sealed the JFK assassination records for 100 years... evidently, his plan was to make sure that NOBODY who was involved would even have children alive once the Kennedy assassination files would be declassified.

Trump says, "F that noise" and announces that he is ordering a COMPLETE document dump, with NO REDACTIONS or other "See, there's nothing here -- never mind the stuff that we're now showing you."

As expected, FBI and CIA swamp creatures are protesting.... as if there is ANYTHING of tactical or strategic value to be protected, considering that the Cold War ended 25 years ago.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning October 21, 2017 10:50 PM  

Roger Semont wrote:Interesting that most of the Alt Hero renderings that have come out so far don't show an American Flag, but the flag of the Confederate States of America. I thought the Alt Heros would be on the winning side, and would support freedom as one of their core values?

Thank you so much for voicing your concern. My brow, it furrows.

Alt-Hiro wrote:"What should the amount be and what are some of the possible site-related rewards we could give that would be of interest?"

How about saying when the book will come out?


He already did.

daddynichol wrote:Playing cards? Print a regulation deck with one character on the back. Collect every deck. Rebel would the first naturally.

This is the kind of thing the fans would have fun hashing out on the website. Another example- there is already some controversy about the 'Stang. Some say it's a '64, others a '65 w/some aftermarket aero. And is Rebel actually hotter than Dynamique? Really? I have my reservations.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 21, 2017 11:05 PM  

You know, the playing cards thing is not insane. I'd support/buy. And I'd need a set of untouched keepers too ...

Blogger wreckage October 21, 2017 11:17 PM  

High res wallpaper, selection of characters.

Blogger Student in Blue October 21, 2017 11:42 PM  

@10. JAG
The RPG and video game ideas could be merged into an online MMORPG.

You do not want to go down that route. Trust me, you do not.

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 11:48 PM  

Roger Semont wrote:I thought the Alt Heros would be on the winning side, and would support freedom as one of their core values?
Interesting. Can you tell me where the swastika originated from? Now if anyone wears it in western civilization you will get looked at funny or assaulted by the mentally ill. Will the same thing happen in parts of asia? Well im sure they have the mentally ill who will strike out at people as well, but i mean does the symbol mean the same thing to everyone? So why does it have to mean something horrible? Thats your own projection on the symbol. You don't know the reason Rebel is wearing it only that you are emotional toward it. You also dont have the ability to think anyone has a different view of it other than yours and you think only your feelings should matter. Thus all others should be silenced. You have no capability for critical thought or objective reasoning. You are a puppet. You are told to hate it by SJWs. So you hate it. Learn to reason.

Now on to more serious matters. Are Both Rebel AND Dynamique red heads? That makes my choice of hottness much harder. If for some reason it's obvious to the rest of you that one isnt a redhead, remember im colorblind so reds and browns sometimes look alike to me and im having a hard time telling a difference.

Blogger The Observer October 21, 2017 11:48 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:@10.

You do not want to go down that route. Trust me, you do not.


Pretty much. The Dark Lord has said he doesn't want to bite off more than he can chew.

Blogger SmockMan October 21, 2017 11:52 PM  

Website at 135K sounds great. And I'm assuming it would be online before the comic is finished. Even better!

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 22, 2017 12:08 AM  

I think that any site-related reward should just be flair (like a special title or icon) or unlocking of a feature open to later fans (like a wiki), since not everyone is going to hear about this in advance.

Anonymous whatwedontknow October 22, 2017 12:17 AM  

A way for readers to suggest storylines and story elements.

Anonymous JAG October 22, 2017 12:36 AM  

Student in Blue wrote:@10. JAG

The RPG and video game ideas could be merged into an online MMORPG.

You do not want to go down that route. Trust me, you do not.


Never say never. Of course, it would be self defeating to set your goals as the next "WoW Killer" which isn't going to happen, but smaller, niche oriented MMORPGs have done quite well for themselves. EVE Online in particular.

Anonymous JAG October 22, 2017 12:38 AM  

The Observer wrote:Student in Blue wrote:@10.

You do not want to go down that route. Trust me, you do not.


Pretty much. The Dark Lord has said he doesn't want to bite off more than he can chew.


I wasn't intending for Vox to sit down and code this himself. More likely it would be licensed after the IP is established.

Anonymous Alt-Hiro October 22, 2017 1:15 AM  

@41

Alt-Hiro wrote:"What should the amount be and what are some of the possible site-related rewards we could give that would be of interest?"

How about saying when the book will come out?


He already did.

...

And...?

Anonymous Alt-Hiro October 22, 2017 1:22 AM  

@45
"Interesting. Can you tell me where the swastika originated from? Now if anyone wears it in western civilization you will get looked at funny or assaulted by the mentally ill. Will the same thing happen in parts of asia? Well im sure they have the mentally ill who will strike out at people as well, but i mean does the symbol mean the same thing to everyone? So why does it have to mean something horrible? Thats your own projection on the symbol. You don't know the reason Rebel is wearing it only that you are emotional toward it. You also dont have the ability to think anyone has a different view of it other than yours and you think only your feelings should matter. Thus all others should be silenced. You have no capability for critical thought or objective reasoning. You are a puppet. You are told to hate it by SJWs. So you hate it. Learn to reason."

I heard a similar line of argument from a Scientologist once. I asked why Scientology incorporated a Christian cross into their logo and he told me that the cross has been used throughout time, blah blah.

Of course, the asymetrical cross of Christianity has NOT been used throughout time, and that is the point. When you see that cross, you think "Christian". When Scientology uses it, it is to deceive people of our culture into thinking that Scientology is somehow Christian.

You cannot use a swastika in our culture and delude people into thinking it does not mean Nazism. You cannot use a Confederate flag and expect people to not think of slavery. Visual symbols don't come with five paragraphs of explanation.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 22, 2017 1:29 AM  

No rational American looks at the rebel flag and thinks slavery. We think, 'the South'. That's all it's meant in modern times. Dukes of hazard. Moonshine. Sweet tea. Girls who unironically want to be in a pageant or parade or cheerleaders. Guys who join the military. Not slavery.

Blogger The Observer October 22, 2017 1:37 AM  

@54: I think we're dealing with poop, guys, and familiar poop at that.

Please don't touch it.

Blogger Ingot9455 October 22, 2017 1:59 AM  

@41 "Is Rebel actually hotter than Dynamique?"

Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

Anonymous comicologist October 22, 2017 2:06 AM  

Could the Wiki be hosted on one or more Infogalactic pages?

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 22, 2017 2:39 AM  

The more I think about it, the more I just want an icon next to my handle that screams OG.

Anonymous Alt-Hiro October 22, 2017 3:03 AM  

@54 I think that blacks have always had a different opinion of that flag than whites, and I think these days most people (not of the South) think "Charlottesville".

Blogger David October 22, 2017 3:59 AM  

Before card games and RPG's, lets get another comic book funded. I'd like Alt hero to be a long term proposition.

Anonymous Causal Lurker October 22, 2017 7:45 AM  

Slightly OT, but we win hands-down when Rebel appears as the nose art on an F-16 called "Heart Blesser".

Blogger VD October 22, 2017 8:00 AM  

Slightly OT, but we win hands-down when Rebel appears as the nose art on an F-16 called "Heart Blesser".

Is that IF or WHEN? Because if the latter is the case, I definitely want to see a picture of that.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 22, 2017 8:58 AM  

Alt-Hiro wrote:@54 I think that blacks have always had a different opinion of that flag than whites, and I think these days most people (not of the South) think "Charlottesville".

Since they're going after Christopher Columbus now and protesting the Stars & Stripes, the Yankee mask is off. They're just anti-American. So stuff it, a-hole.

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 22, 2017 9:07 AM  

SciVo de Plorable wrote:Alt-Hiro wrote:@54 I think that blacks have always had a different opinion of that flag than whites, and I think these days most people (not of the South) think "Charlottesville".

Since they're going after Christopher Columbus now and protesting the Stars & Stripes, the Yankee mask is off. They're just anti-American. So stuff it, a-hole.


The Alt-Left is Cultural Marxism all the way down. No honor or morality to be had with them.

Blogger tuberman October 22, 2017 10:01 AM  

Alt-Hiro wrote:@54 I think that blacks have always had a different opinion of that flag than whites, and I think these days most people (not of the South) think "Charlottesville".

Naw, You're quite wrong, most of even the Alt-Lite, and Civic Nationalists Northerners know Charlottesville was a Globalist/Leftist setup.

Blogger tuberman October 22, 2017 10:07 AM  

Brick Hardslab wrote:No rational American looks at the rebel flag and thinks slavery. We think, 'the South'. That's all it's meant in modern times. Dukes of hazard. Moonshine. Sweet tea. Girls who unironically want to be in a pageant or parade or cheerleaders. Guys who join the military. Not slavery.

Yep, Most, and probably over 75% of our elite troops come from the South, and the majority of them are White.

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 22, 2017 10:20 AM  

Alt-Hiro wrote:@45
"Visual symbols don't come with five paragraphs of explanation."


Says the troll pushing five paragraphs of pablum.

Blogger digz October 22, 2017 10:56 AM  

VD When is the new exciting stuff as a result of your phone call last night getting announced

Blogger VD October 22, 2017 12:00 PM  

When Freestartr makes the changes so I can actually announce them.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 22, 2017 12:07 PM  

The powers that be are pushing for the removal of confederate imagery because it is American. Every single soldier who fought in that war was an American. They have the same rights and honor due as any American veteran.

Charlottesville only brings up, 'not us' to pearl clutching, panties bunching, leftwing, un-American SJW types and their globalist masters who want to tear down all American symbols and bury our history.

Blogger Student in Blue October 22, 2017 12:46 PM  

@JAG
Never say never. Of course, it would be self defeating to set your goals as the next "WoW Killer" which isn't going to happen, but smaller, niche oriented MMORPGs have done quite well for themselves. EVE Online in particular.

For every EVE Online, there's maybe 50 failed MMOs. And not even ones that try to be WoW killers.

MMOs are very, very, very glutted. Something would have to be extremely niche in order to even survive.

Anonymous Alt-Hiro October 22, 2017 1:04 PM  

Man of the Atom wrote:SciVo de Plorable wrote:Alt-Hiro wrote:@54 I think that blacks have always had a different opinion of that flag than whites, and I think these days most people (not of the South) think "Charlottesville".

Since they're going after Christopher Columbus now and protesting the Stars & Stripes, the Yankee mask is off. They're just anti-American. So stuff it, a-hole.


The Alt-Left is Cultural Marxism all the way down. No honor or morality to be had with them.


You don't know who "they" are, but as for the Stars and Stripes, I assume you mean the NFL protests. It is worth noting that it was just one guy doing it before Trump stuck his nose in. As usual, his interference made things worse, and what the players are doing is now a protest against him (which, of course, is how he likes it).

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 22, 2017 2:07 PM  

Look, I'm not linking to you or mentoring you in any way because you're probably going to get banned and spammed for lying. It was not just one guy before Trump said something. Do you ever tire of being wrong?

Blogger roughcoat October 22, 2017 3:02 PM  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016–present)#NFL_protests

Moron.

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 22, 2017 3:09 PM  

Alt-Hiro wrote:
"You don't know who "they" are, but as for the Stars and Stripes, I assume you mean the NFL protests."

As usual, it's very dangerous to assume. You are wildly off base, but thanks for sharing your bias tell.

Anonymous WaterBoy October 23, 2017 2:48 PM  

Alt-Troll @72: "It is worth noting that it was just one guy doing it before Trump stuck his nose in."

You are a liar. Others were copying him last year before Trump was even elected. Brandon Marshall of the Denver Broncos lost a local endorsement deal because of his kneeling.

Anonymous WaterBoy October 23, 2017 2:51 PM  

Alt-Troll @59: "I think that blacks have always had a different opinion of that flag than whites"

Do you speak for all blacks?

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