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Monday, October 02, 2017

Deception at Mandalay Bay?

I saw the live reports on European TV. As a result of those early live reports, I remain very, very dubious that a single shooter, shooting from 300 yards away, caused 586 casualties, 59 of them fatal, in that amount of time. Even allowing for the elevation and the large size of the crowd, it strikes me as highly improbable (unless many of the injuries are related to trampling rather than shooting, that is plausible). At any rate, this independent journalist is not buying the Official Story:
SHOOTER COULD NOT HAVE BEEN AT MANDALAY BAY

The gunfire is too loud over the concert, it was happening at the concert . Windows are easy to kick out later.

HERE IS THE KEY VIDEO THAT DESTROYS THE LIE. This is just a file on this site, which you can right click and save. This video is evidence, there is no way the official story holds up against this. The gunfire was simply too loud and too local in reference to the concert for the official story to hold.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS -
1. If it was originating 1500 feet away at Mandalay Bay, it was not close enough to totally blast over the concert loud enough to cause the performers, who wear monitor equipment to block all sound, to stop playing. The concert was LOUD when the shooting happened. You simply can't outdo a concert from that far away, no one would have heard it over the music, especially the performers, who have equipment that is designed to block the sound of the concert and let them hear only the sound of their instruments, as they are played in reference to the other instruments. The failure of this system is what did Mariah Carey in on New Years, when you are playing that "big" you have to be directly piped to the mixing board with all other sources of sound blocked. This would have prevented the performers from hearing anything. Why did they stop? ANSWER: Gunshots from above them on the same stage would have been loud enough. What happens on stage in the video is a supreme bust of the official lie.

POINT TWO: Audio recording equipment (even on a camcorder) automatically sets the level of the audio to optimal. The concert was LOUD, it is obvious because the crowd cannot be heard when the music is playing. Then gunfire clearly is louder than the concert, even though according to the official story it originated 1500 feet away. The automatic level control in the audio recorder proves the gunfire was simply too loud in relation to the music to have come from Mandalay Bay, it had to have originated above the speakers. That is the only way the automatic level control circuit would not have had the recording level choked back so far that the gunfire would not be heard. The recording should not have had the sound of gunfire so prominent, IF it even managed to record the sound of the gun at all. Obviously after the music cut the recorder would pick up the gunfire from that distance because it would automatically turn the record volume up.

POINT THREE:

Watch the video. The stage crew cuts everything to black, and then takes the stage lighting, points it directly out at the crowd, and turns it back on to illuminate the crowd. The shooting does not resume until this process is complete. This was a deliberate act that no one would have thought of off the cuff unless it was planned ahead of time. Without a doubt, someone on the stage crew was involved in this shooting. Interesting it is that the concert was called the "Route 91 harvest" and took place on route 91!

Here is what I think happened. The shooters were actually situated above the stage. The windows on Mandalay Bay were kicked out for the story line. I have a video that shows it all unfold. I do not think the singer knew what was going on. I believe it was people planted in the crew that did this.
Anyhow, my position is the same as it always is. I don't know what actually happened. But over the years, I have learned that the truth is seldom all that closely related to the Official Story. The way in which the crowd was illuminated from the stage AFTER the shooting began is particularly troubling. What sort of idiot would ever do that? And who was responsible for it?

Labels:

259 Comments:

1 – 200 of 259 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Ken Prescott October 02, 2017 8:52 PM  

This was written by someone who's never pulled targets at Edson Range or anywhere similar, or been shot at.

1. The sound of the powder is the QUIETEST thing about a rifle going off. Bullets are supersonic. Downrange, you hear a loud "CRACK" as the bullet goes past; this is essentially a sonic boom. That's what you're hearing on the video. It's not 1500 feet away, it's less than

2. They do NOT stop immediately. There's a brief period

3. I suspect the majority of the injuries will be very minor ones, caused by concrete and bullet fragment spalling. I suspect a significant portion of the fatalities will be due to trampling and bleeding out waiting for the cops to take down the shooter.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 02, 2017 8:53 PM  

But, what about the moral level? That matters, too!

Blogger Midnight Avenue J October 02, 2017 8:54 PM  

Popcorn time.

Something is off about this one, certainly.

Anonymous Mr Mojo Risin October 02, 2017 8:54 PM  

If true, there will be video emerging. Too many eyewitnesses and people with cell phones that would be talking about/showing gunmen near the stage.

Video or several eyewitness testimonies, or it didn't happen this way.

Blogger Phat Repat October 02, 2017 8:58 PM  

These days, everything is a conspiracy. Or perhaps it's not; my signals are getting crossed by all this !@#!$^% tinfoil!!!

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 8:58 PM  

vox... mate come on. the dude had over an hour...72 minutes to shoot. We have video of shots going on for over half an hour. Concert goers in many cases were just standing around in groups waiting to get shot. Jesus some of the drunks were shouting up at mandalay bay and flipping him off as he was shooting at them.

Hell yes one man could do this.

one man could far... far worse than this.

Anonymous polarbearballs October 02, 2017 8:59 PM  

To this day, I still believe Sirhan Sirhan was a sleeper cell, activated via some LSD-induced code word, electrodes, hypnosis or torture recollection, to do what he did.

It all sounds so conspiratorial, until you look at all these shooters "waking up" one day to decide they want to pull off some major armed catastrophe.

Anonymous A Texan October 02, 2017 9:03 PM  

15 CURIOUS FACTOIDS: Mandalay Bay Shooter Stephen Paddock and His Vegas Massacre

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2017/10/20-curious-data-points-regarding.html

OpenID ee6e3dd2-c3a3-11e3-b44f-000bcdca4d7a October 02, 2017 9:03 PM  

>"the dude had over an hour...72 minutes to shoot"

Which itself is suspicious in a packed vegas hotel with a private army to guard the casino.
I know if I were anyone on staff at a hotel and heard full auto fire I'd be calling security to converge on those rooms with the biggest arms they had, and knowing how many millions are in their coffers, I know the vegas swat team is drooling over Mandalay Bay's weapons lockers.

Anonymous Joe Dirt October 02, 2017 9:03 PM  

That guy's a loon.

Plus, I'm pretty sure the 586 number includes people who were injured in the ensuing panic as well as gunshot wounds.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky October 02, 2017 9:04 PM  

That police scan recording put up by Elder Son is pretty interesting. The boots on the scene when it started figured out that the shooter was halfway up in Mandalay Bay within 40-50 seconds or so. A couple of them had made their up to the 32nd floor within 10 minutes or so, and had the shooter's room identified. They also found a wounded security guard up there who had been shot in the leg.

Lots of chaos on the ground, though, with police arriving to become overwhelmed by multiple casualties, who became a major concern as one would imagine. From early on various officers can be heard pleading with everybody to focus on eliminating the shooter fist, or else they'll have more casualties. They had varying levels of success.

Leadership seemed over-concerned with establishing various staging areas (for unclear purposes and uncertain locations). Those guys up on the 32nd floor would be held back for almost an hour until SWAT could be "staged" up there and breach the door.

Total chaos. But the police scanner does support the Mandalay Bay shooter story - along with slow police leadership, for whatever reason. Surprise? Shock? Unseen hands?

Blogger Forge the Sky October 02, 2017 9:05 PM  

I mean, the 'official story' is hardly gospel, but this armchair theory is really dumb.

Blogger Double E October 02, 2017 9:05 PM  

I wouldn't be surprised if the lights were set to illuminate the crowd when the show was over, so people can see to leave.

Cutting the lights on stage might have initiated that.

There are multiple videos of the crowd AFTER the band had stopped playing and left stage, and the gunfire still sounds far away.

Also without the band there the crowd certainly would have been able to tell if the shots were coming from over the stage right in front of the.

I am not at all surprised that shooting from 500 yards away can kill 59 people with a crowd jam packed like it is at a concert. One 30 caliber round could go through a couple people, and hundreds were fired.

Anonymous Just another commenter October 02, 2017 9:07 PM  

Agreed that at this point we really don't KNOW what really happened for sure, and we may never know the actual motive.

That said: if a guy running the lights thought the shooter was in the crowd, it's not unreasonable to light the crowd up to identify the shooter for security to swarm. No, not smart in retrospect, but the place was LOUD and he might not know where the shots are coming from at all. If you are not at all familiar with the sounds of gunfire, or bullets zipping y, and you are in a loud area, and getting weird sound reflections from the surrounding buildings, it's not totally insane.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 9:09 PM  

"Leadership seemed over-concerned with establishing various staging areas "

Standard police response procedure. Wait until he kills himself... kick in the door... find the body... declare yourselves heros.

Been doing it all the way back to Columbine.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 02, 2017 9:10 PM  

Mr Mojo Risin wrote:If true, there will be video emerging. Too many eyewitnesses and people with cell phones that would be talking about/showing gunmen near the stage.

Video or several eyewitness testimonies, or it didn't happen this way.


He has the video on his site. Take a look. I do not draw the same conclusions. As was pointed out it's likely the sonic boom off the bullets rather than the initial report at the muzzle of the gun. In fact the video sounds very much like that.

The performance went on for a good 2-3 seconds after shooting started, maybe longer I didn't time it was it was a little while. Odds are security signaled to them to stop the show. The performers may not have heard it all.

As for the crowd being lit up afterwards? That seems odd but I wouldn't be surprised if that is SOP for all emergence stopping of the event. I am sure the idea is if there is an emergence people are going to need lighting to get out of the venue "safely". It doesn't work when you are helping a shooter hit a target but it works well for a cancelling of a show due to a stage fire or lightning strike in the area. SOP tends to be broadly written for emergence situations and usually is 1 size fits all until several incidents provide the exceptions. It is the same reason SWAT quarantined a crime scene then went in hours later for 15 years of active shootings until policy changed to adapt to the criminals tactics. Now the first police officer on the scene will enter the building and try to eliminate the threat. It took many instances before that lesson was learned.

Lastly the video also helps disprove his points. The person taking the video turns the camera twoards Mandalay bay and holds it there for awhile. You wouldn't do that if you thought the shots were coming from the stage.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 9:12 PM  

". You wouldn't do that if you thought the shots were coming from the stage."

exactly. Tons of people in video are pointing up at the mandalay and even flipping the bird that way.

OpenID aew51183 October 02, 2017 9:12 PM  

@16
I have seen footage of troops in afghanistan taking fire from 600 yds... the bullets make a whizzing sound in said video, not a boom.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 9:13 PM  

"As for the crowd being lit up afterwards? That seems odd but I wouldn't be surprised if that is SOP for all emergence stopping of the event."

standard procedure. also for this particular situation.... enormously stupid.

OpenID doktorjeep October 02, 2017 9:14 PM  

Before this convo goes any further, you must know the "crack thump" thing and be able to determine range from it. Then watch the videos. In short, at close ranges the crack comes before the thump, and then at longer ranges the thump catches up with the crack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb4BP7lZnk0

Blogger Dangeresque October 02, 2017 9:14 PM  

@Ken Prescott

I was about to say pretty much the exact same thing... The supersonic crack of the bullets is audible local to what is being shot at no matter what. Kinda shoots (hehe...) the credibility of the person that wrote this right up front. In fact, one could measure the time between the cracks and the report of the rifle in the video, and using the speed of sound, calculate the distance. If only it wasn't so late I'd do it myself haha... Oh well, I'm sure someone on /pol/ already has it figured out.

Also, yeah... Spalling, trampling, blood loss, bullets going through multiple targets, etc... Makes it more plausible.

Blogger Dangeresque October 02, 2017 9:16 PM  

I suppose you'd also have to know muzzle velocity for the calculation too...

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 02, 2017 9:17 PM  

Nate wrote:"Leadership seemed over-concerned with establishing various staging areas "

Standard police response procedure. Wait until he kills himself... kick in the door... find the body... declare yourselves heros.

Been doing it all the way back to Columbine.


Yeah, likely old time top brass reverting to the tactics they were familiar with. The new SOP says all responding officers are supposed to engage the suspect as they arrive scene. Guessing someone gave a stand down order for "officer safety" reasons.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 9:19 PM  

" The new SOP says all responding officers are supposed to engage the suspect as they arrive scene."

the new SOP is nothing but CYA. No one actually does it.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 02, 2017 9:19 PM  

Nate wrote:"As for the crowd being lit up afterwards? That seems odd but I wouldn't be surprised if that is SOP for all emergence stopping of the event."

standard procedure. also for this particular situation.... enormously stupid.


People tend to go by the book. Especially in an emergency. It takes responsibility away from themselves. There are very few people who will think about the consequences of following the training in a particular situation and choose not to follow it.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 9:25 PM  

NobodyExpects wrote:But, what about the moral level? That matters, too!

The Moral level only applies to occupying troops, not military who choose the Hama option, which is just keep killing and bombing everything til the badguys stop or go away.

Try not to be uniformed.

Blogger roughcoat October 02, 2017 9:26 PM  

A supersonic crack doesn't sound like a gunshot. It's a distinctly different sound. It's much, much quieter than a centerfire rifle muzzle blast, and also doesn't appear to be coming from the rifle itself.

I have no problem with the shooting happening from the hotel. It would be trivial to do with some basic knowledge of ballistics. But, I also called two shooters (or at least, two automatic rifles) as soon as I heard good audio, and I've seen nothing to change my mind. Was he running two guns at once? Or was there another shooter involved?

The types of wounds the victims have should be pretty informative, not that the information will ever be released. There's a big difference between getting shot with a rifle at a few dozen yards and getting shot with the exact same rifle at 300+ yards.

Anonymous HoosierHillbilly October 02, 2017 9:27 PM  

Lights going out to the crowd would be a pretty natural, subconscious response. Hmm...something bad happening...strange noises...need light! That's a pretty human reaction.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 9:27 PM  

To those who have watched the video and know firearms.....is there any machine gun fire?

If not, initial reports are bogus.

Anonymous Russell Newquist October 02, 2017 9:34 PM  

FWIW, I have a friend in the FBI and I spoke with him about this tonight. His claim is that most of the casualties (especially the injuries) were from the stampede at the concert, not from gunfire. I find that quite plausible, but it's also thirdhand even from an FBI agent.

Blogger Tom Bridgeland October 02, 2017 9:35 PM  

The guy was a long way away, at a steep angle. If I were a cop, I wouldn't want to be lighting up the side of a hotel under those conditions. Long range on angle? Unless the cops were Afghanistan vets or mountain goat hunters, it might be a good thing they didn't return much fire.
What I don't understand is why it took so long to get him from inside the hotel.

Blogger roughcoat October 02, 2017 9:38 PM  

To those who have watched the video and know firearms.....is there any machine gun fire?

It sounds to me like someone is dumping drums through a typical automatic AK-47. At points, it sounds like two AKs running.

Been a long time since I was around a full auto AK, but when just one is running, the tempo matches other AK-47 mag dumps on youtube as close to exactly as I can determine without syncing playback side by side.

IMO the firing is way too regular and reliable to be some hacky semiauto modification.

Blogger Ken Prescott October 02, 2017 9:38 PM  

"It's much, much quieter than a centerfire rifle muzzle blast"

But it's coming from much closer if you're in the beaten zone.

Blogger Ken Prescott October 02, 2017 9:39 PM  

"IMO the firing is way too regular and reliable to be some hacky semiauto modification."

Concur.

Blogger Akulkis October 02, 2017 9:40 PM  

I don't think the reporter has ever been forward of the muzzle of a firearm while it's bring fired. The sound is much louder in the direction of the targets than for the firer.

3nd.. for automatic weapons qualifications, the closet targets are 300 m.

Cited analysis is ignorant B.S.

Blogger Ken Prescott October 02, 2017 9:41 PM  

"The guy was a long way away, at a steep angle. If I were a cop, I wouldn't want to be lighting up the side of a hotel under those conditions."

"Ma'am, we are terribly sorry that Las Vegas Metro PD shot up your room. We will comp your stay and give you a complimentary upgrade for the next time you stay at Mandalay Bay."

Blogger Ken Prescott October 02, 2017 9:43 PM  

"The guy was a long way away, at a steep angle. If I were a cop, I wouldn't want to be lighting up the side of a hotel under those conditions."

I suspect he's never actually fired a weapon, period.

Memories of Edson Range and Range 314 at Camp Pendleton...when the humidity and temperature were *just right*, you could watch bullets go downrange from the vapor trails they left.

Anonymous IncoherentM October 02, 2017 9:43 PM  

@29 Look up bump fire videos. Rate of fire appears to be similar, and there are reports authorities found rifles with bump fire attachments.

As far as the "Deception" article goes, eh...

Blogger roughcoat October 02, 2017 9:44 PM  

Ken Prescott wrote:"It's much, much quieter than a centerfire rifle muzzle blast"

But it's coming from much closer if you're in the beaten zone.


Sure, I'm just saying it doesn't sound much like a gunshot. Which is probably why people are confused and milling around. A lot of them probably thought it was firecrackers or something.

The first time I ever got shot at I had no fricking clue where it came from. I never even noticed the muzzle blast, I just heard the bullet crack past my head, jumped, and took cover. There wasn't a second shot, so I assume it was a fortunately incompetent "sniper".

Blogger Koanic October 02, 2017 9:51 PM  

I think the strongest current case is for a leftist miscegenating Muslim convert who took an engineer's approach to maximizing kills within his window.

Turning on the lights in an emergency would be SOP to prevent stampede injuries.

Blogger VD October 02, 2017 9:55 PM  

Rate of fire appears to be similar, and there are reports authorities found rifles with bump fire attachments.

Sounds too regular to be bump fire to me.

Blogger WATYF October 02, 2017 9:56 PM  

This guy isn't a "journalist", he's an idiot.

Someone already mentioned the issues with his analysis of the shots/echos, so I'll take the "concert" stuff.

There was no "process" of "taking the stage lighting" and "pointing it directly out at the crowd". He obviously knows nothing at all about live production. First, those lights were already "pointed" at the crowd, since pretty much every concert has house lights like that for the sole purpose of illuminating the crowd. The idea that this was some nefarious act is silly. Second, there are a host of reasons why someone would have turned on the house lights, including but not limited to the tech director telling the lighting guy to bring up the lights so they could try to figure out what was going on, or them realizing that something bad was happening and wanting to turn the house lights on so the crowd could leave.

Yes, musicians wear in-ears on stage but the tech crew doesn't. All that needed to happen was for the Front of House engineer (who, btw, would be in a perfect position to hear the shots) or any of a number of other people to hear gunfire and report into the talkback system that everyone needed to get off stage.

As Nate pointed out, the biggest issue was that huge amount of people just laid down where they were, as if that was any kind of "cover". It was the dumbest thing they could have done. They were probably more exposed to the shooter lying down than if they had just stayed standing up. They should have immediately gotten as far away from the crowd as possible since no crowd=no target. I heard a report that cops were telling people to stay down and not run, which isn't surprising.

WATYF

Blogger Ceasar October 02, 2017 10:01 PM  

I can confirm the following works and mimics the sound of a gatling.

http://twozprecision.com/product/gatcrank-15/

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 02, 2017 10:01 PM  

Lack of confidence on the narrative is disturbing. Old white male, a gun-clinger. Obviously full-auto firearms should be banned in Nevada.

After all, you did not think very much about secessionist tensions in an European country, and ate the official narrative of the regional government - hook, line, and sinker. Of course, that is a minor affair for you.

Blogger Dos Voltz October 02, 2017 10:03 PM  

I work in live concert entertainment, and it is very common to have lights focused toward the crowd to light them up when the pop star wants to get the crowd excited, have dialogue, etc. The lighting guy at the control desk at Front of House (The LD, for lighting designer or lighting director) just presses one button on the desk that will do this.

But in an emergency situation it is conceivable that he would think he is "helping" so people in the crowd can spot the shooter (if he is in the crowd) or otherwise just help people see the exits as they flee to not trample each other.

After Ariana Grande we have all sorts of govt bureaucrats and security firms pushing for "something" to be done, to have an "action plan" but all I've seen seem to be vague and untenable. And tour staff use different walkies than locals, etc, intercomm systems are used only by a few connected direct to the cues of the show and will miss outside news.

There is no way to prepare for crazy.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 02, 2017 10:06 PM  

1. If it was originating 1500 feet away at Mandalay Bay, it was not close enough to totally blast over the concert loud enough to cause the performers, who wear monitor equipment to block all sound, to stop playing. The concert was LOUD when the shooting happened. You simply can't outdo a concert from that far away



this would be true for a subsonic round like the .45 ACP used in a Thompson submachine ( by definition, using pistol rounds ) gun ( muzzle velocity 935 ft / sec vs Mach 1 which is +1100 ft / sec ) but is not even close to correct for a .223 or 7.62 round.

M-16 / .223 / 5.56 muzzle velocity with a 20" barrel is 3,150 and an AK variant is going to run 2,300 ft / sec ( heavier round out of a shorter barrel ). both are supersonic til well down range.

"Point Two" is just Point One restated a different way, fails for all the same reasons.


Interesting it is that the concert was called the "Route 91 harvest" and took place on route 91!


ummm ... fucking duh?

that's the old US highway numbering system and was so designated in NINETEEN TWENTY SIX.

IF you're trying to connect this to 9-11
THEN you're claiming that the US Highway department was on board with this conspiracy in the early 1920s.

they're holding a concert where they're holding it because everybody GOES TO Las Vegas. the concert is the reason the shooter chose this site.


6. Nate October 02, 2017 8:58 PM
Jesus some of the drunks were shouting up at mandalay bay and flipping him off as he was shooting at them.



this was a Country Music festival. sure, they're going to have a lot of city slickers, what with this being in downtown LV, but there are STILL going to be a buttload of country folk.

people who go hunting for 4 or 5 different seasons ( deer, hog, gator, duck, quail, turkey, etc ) depending on where they're from. tons of vets.

iow, lots and LOTS of men in the crowd who are quite used to being downrange and / or locating shot origin.

there is NO GODDAMN WAY that 40 round mags were being dumped from OVER the stage and everybody confused that with the Mandalay.


11. a deplorable rubberducky October 02, 2017 9:04 PM
Leadership seemed over-concerned



typical chickenshit bureaucrat who is concerned about covering his ass rather than solving the problem. could easily be female.

"Can't get in trouble for following the procedure manual."



16. basementhomebrewer October 02, 2017 9:10 PM
The performance went on for a good 2-3 seconds after shooting started, maybe longer I didn't time it was it was a little while.



it was a full mag dump, however long that is.

that was one of the things i noted mentally on my second watch through, the band didn't react to the firing at all ... until the firing stopped. the band stopped playing and dove for cover at almost the exact same time the first mag ran out.

the band could easily have been reacting to seeing people in the crowd go down. and once one of them stops playing the others are going to start checking out their surroundings pretty quick.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky October 02, 2017 10:08 PM  

WATYF wrote:They were probably more exposed to the shooter lying down than if they had just stayed standing up

This is unquestionably true. Ricocheting bullets tend to hug the ground.

Blogger Johnny October 02, 2017 10:09 PM  

I am always willing to doubt the official narrative, but this is thin stuff.

If they distort this thing the likely method will be in the assertion of motive for the shooter. As usual, that has begun already.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 02, 2017 10:11 PM  

In combat, you can hear gunfire clearly from a good distance. That video sounded like the firefights in Iraq and Afghan. So much so, it took me back for a moment. Weird. The shooting would be heard just fine after the music and has that same unforgettable sound

Blogger Ceerilan October 02, 2017 10:13 PM  

It is standard procedure for police to release false information to the press about any high profile crime. This practice helps them distinguish fall confessions from real ones, which is tougher to do than many people realize.

Given how lighting works, if a spotlight operator were to hear the shooting, the best thing he could do is to aim the light to where he heard the shots. This may be inaccurate because of sound echoing.

Blogger Ceasar October 02, 2017 10:17 PM  

I have absolutely no faith in the FBI. My only hope is that between local police and casino security/mafia, they will get to the bottom of it. And the last two have every reason to find and expose any larger conspiracy if present. After all, what does it say to vistors if they couldn't prevent one person from doing this much damage.

Blogger D. October 02, 2017 10:20 PM  

firing an automatic weapon in an hotel room is kinda loud activity? why wasn't his position known in the first 10 minutes?

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 10:21 PM  

"To those who have watched the video and know firearms.....is there any machine gun fire? "

watch the video. now watch video from Iraq or afghanistan.

the sounds are the same. there is no question is full auto fire. I think AK... but it could be a lot of things. Acoustics are bizarre because of the buildings.

remember... this guy is a millionaire. acquiring class III weapons is hard for normal people. Not for him.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 10:22 PM  

if I want a full-auto tommy gun for example... it will cost me about 18k if I want it ASAP.

paper work and all... I will have it in about 60 days.

I can do that.

not very many people can.

Anonymous krymneth October 02, 2017 10:25 PM  

I have a hard time seeing this as a conspiracy, because... why? TPTB at this point would not seem to be served by just making chaos, because it's too easy for Trump to make hay out of this. TPTB are far better served by keeping their heads down and not handing Trump ammunition. This is the opposite of what a conspiracy should be pursuing, not feeding the public more reasons to follow Trump.

OpenID timwburke.com October 02, 2017 10:25 PM  

Seriously, tho, that so many commenters think this is weak sauce gives me hope for humanity.

Blogger kurt9 October 02, 2017 10:26 PM  

There is clearly something fishy about this event. I am also feeling skepticism over the official accounts.

Anonymous Crew October 02, 2017 10:26 PM  

Ricocheting bullets tend to hug the ground.

Because they are afraid of heights?

They were likely FMJ rounds ...

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 10:28 PM  

"There is clearly something fishy about this event. I am also feeling skepticism over the official accounts. "

well yeah. they don't want you to realize that they sat on their hands for 72 damn minutes while he murdered people with impugnity.

They don't want you to know that that had cops on the 32nd floor with him 10 minutes after the first call went out on the radio... but they sat on their hands until swat got there.

Anonymous Planter October 02, 2017 10:28 PM  

Shot a bump rifle before. My experience was not as consistent as what I heard in the video.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 10:29 PM  

((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) wrote:hat was one of the things i noted mentally on my second watch through, the band didn't react to the firing at all ... until the firing stopped. the band stopped playing and dove for cover at almost the exact same time the first mag ran out.



When one is playing music, one is totally involved in a cerebral process, not idly strumming away while checking out the chicks. While trying to perform adequately in present time, they are also anticipating the next set of chord changes. The immediate environment is irrelevant to their conciousness. The musical environment is predominant.

Anonymous Jack Amok October 02, 2017 10:34 PM  

People tend to go by the book. Especially in an emergency. It takes responsibility away from themselves.

People also tend to reason themselves out of doing something risky, like kicking in the door to a room with an armed mass murderer in it. Military training emphasizes going in and completing the mission despite the risk. Police training has emphasized "officer safety" for some time now...

So while the official new SOP is supposed to be, go in and take the threat down without waiting for higher ups to "stage" the scene, that SOP isn't really compatible with "Officer Safety."

OpenID ee6e3dd2-c3a3-11e3-b44f-000bcdca4d7a October 02, 2017 10:34 PM  

In other, more predictable news, there are people with NRO affiliation openly calling for gun control.

It looks like they are dropping the facade of conservatism entirely.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 10:36 PM  

How many bellhops helped him with his stash of guns and ammo? It is like he needed some roadies to furnish his crib.

who were checked in to the adjacent rooms?

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 10:37 PM  

ee6e3dd2-c3a3-11e3-b44f-000bcdca4d7a wrote:In other, more predictable news, there are people with NRO affiliation openly calling for gun control.

It looks like they are dropping the facade of conservatism entirely.


How about hotel security control?

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 10:39 PM  

It would be a simple thing to have a hotel policy of limiting personal firearms to a certain number under 20, for instance.

Blogger James October 02, 2017 10:40 PM  

I don't know anything other than what everyone is reporting. However, does there seem to be a sense of desperation from the (((ruling class))) concerning "gun control" at this time? They are in the process of losing control of the media stranglehold they've had since, well, forever. They have divided all White nations into disparate identity groups, so much so that the Whites are trying to fight back. They no longer make any attempt to promote the 1st Amendment, that is, if it doesn't promote black privilege, muslim privilege, LGBTUVWXYZ privilege, transgender privilege, really any kind of sexual perversion privilege, MSM privilege, politician privilege, and government workers' privilege. But, they have always tread carefully in their attempts to subvert the 2nd Amendment. Do they realize that the posterity is genuinely pissed and also has more private weapons in their hands than any other group? They have always approached taking away rights from the posterity with a slow measured response, knowing that if they failed, they would get some concessions out of it and achieve the result they wanted in a decade or two. Did they overreach to the point that they are having to rush to control the hemorrhaging due to a mistake in their tactics?

I thought that the "sniper's" brother's comments were interesting and made me think this was a false flag. Then we got the armchair quarterback version of "Look, you can tell he's lying because he glanced down here and farted!" I thought that was put together and floated fairly quickly. Makes me wonder. But then, I'm paranoid.

Anonymous Edsss October 02, 2017 10:42 PM  

Observation 4: In the video of the shooting, there is a cop car in the foreground, cops with firearms crouched behind it for safety. The Mandaley Bay hotel is the backdrop far in the background behind the cop car. The crouched cops behind the car are facing 90 degrees away from the Mandalay Bay, firearms at ready and looking intently in a direction other that the Mandalay Bay hotel.

Blogger Nobody of Consequence October 02, 2017 10:42 PM  

Found this police report of 2 bump stocks.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Islamic-State-claims-Las-Vegas-attack-449071193.html

Anonymous Panzer Man October 02, 2017 10:43 PM  

My take is that he was a leftist who made a plan to do this in revenge for Trump's election and successful inauguration as president. It's probably an NFA firearm; the lag between the election and the shooting is probably due to the time it took for his paperwork to go through.

Also, sounds fully automatic to me. I doubt anyone could bump fire that many rounds so consistently in a row.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 02, 2017 10:46 PM  

@56

That there are so many people here though that are too stupid and lazy to bother to capitalize where they should(assuming they're not using phones, in which case, fine, whatever, however, makes me wish a considerable portion of humanity that frequents this board got wrecked at that event. Okay fine: two, maybe three guys here at most, but what's life without a little exaggeration to illuminate just how much you hate people?

Anonymous Jack Amok October 02, 2017 10:47 PM  

Speaking of supersonic bullets, I'd be really surprised if Vegas doesn't have a pretty extensive Shotspotter system along the strip. They knew where those bullets were coming from PDQ.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 10:47 PM  

"firing an automatic weapon in an hotel room is kinda loud activity? why wasn't his position known in the first 10 minutes?"

yes. 2 minutes actually. at 10:09 a tweet went out from a dude claiming the attack was happening from the room above him.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky October 02, 2017 10:51 PM  

Crew wrote:Ricocheting bullets tend to hug the ground.

Because they are afraid of heights?

They were likely FMJ rounds ...


No, because of the physics. Of course, the US Army could have been wrong about it when they taught me. I just took their word.

Anonymous Laz October 02, 2017 10:53 PM  

@Nate: 18K!? WTF? You are getting robbed. I could go down the street and get a brand new full auto AK or AR for around $2000, $200 tax and one extra piece of paper to fill out.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 10:54 PM  

Emmanuel Mateo-Morales wrote:Okay fine: two, maybe three guys here at most, but what's life without a little exaggeration to illuminate just how much you hate people?

may i be the first to say phunk you, but i mean it in the good way. i don't like people either.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 02, 2017 10:54 PM  

My alarms first went off when they said the shooter was on the 32nd floor.

That makes no sense at all if they are trying for mass casualties. They are basically shooting into the ground. To maximize the likelihood of hitting someone with each round fired, they would need to be shooting THROUGH the crowd....an enfilade shooting situation. Shooting through the crowd means, even if you miss the first intended target, you are likely to hit someone else as the bullet passes through the crowd at ground level. You cannot do that from the 32nd floor, no matter how far away the target might be.

Shooting from an elevated platform is difficult to do with accuracy. The view is terrific and it seems like you can see forever, but that does not mean your rifle can reach out and touch the target. (a-squared plus b-squared equals c-squared)

Blogger DavidRohm October 02, 2017 10:54 PM  

Yea, this point alone is troubling. Shots can be heard 300 yards away, yet hotel security and LEO INSIDE the hotel take 72 minutes before converging on the room to take a kill shot.

Blogger GraceIronwood October 02, 2017 10:56 PM  

Someone 'helpfully' turned lights on the crowd? That seems very strange indeed, but people do all sorts of strange things in a panic. I guess we'll see.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 10:56 PM  

"My alarms first went off when they said the shooter was on the 32nd floor."

are you stupid?

Anonymous Just another commenter October 02, 2017 10:57 PM  

A story in the LA Times
Says quote:
Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, had an arsenal of 17 weapons in his hotel room, mostly military-style rifles, according to a law enforcement source.

At least one of them had been modified with a legal “bump stock” style device that allows the shooter to rapidly fire off rounds without actually converting it to a fully automatic weapon, the source said.

The devices modify the gun’s stock so that the recoil helps accelerate how quickly the shooter can pull the trigger. The devices are legal in the U.S.

Other weapons may have been converted to fully automatic fire, and were still being examined, the source said.

Paddock had four Daniel Defense DDM4 rifles, three FN-15s and other rifles made by Sig Sauer.....

Investigators also found more weapons at his home and are now working to track down all his gun transactions, including some at Nevada gun shows. Records show that Paddock had owned at least 30 guns at one time or another.

unquote.
May or may not be correct, but that's a current report.

Anonymous Ain October 02, 2017 11:00 PM  

"You simply can't outdo a concert from that far away, no one would have heard it over the music, especially the performers, who have equipment that is designed to block the sound of the concert and let them hear only the sound of their instruments, as they are played in reference to the other instruments."

This is precisely why they played throughout the first burst and for several seconds after. Somebody had to tell them through their headsets what was happening, after which they promptly stopped the show.

Blogger Gordon October 02, 2017 11:02 PM  

It would be simple to have a hotel policy that requires the disassembly of, say, a golf bag, every time a guest checks in with one. Because one can hide more than one disassembled rifle inside one. Sheesh. I'm pretty sure the bellhop wasn't handed a SAW to carry.

There really aren't any official reports right now. There's about ten thousand witnesses, many of whom were drinking. As for why the cops didn't immediately focus on the 32nd floor of the hotel, it could be because just like everyone else, they weren't sure what the hell was happening. They didn't know how many people were involved. Was there another shooter in the crowd?

I'm not a lighting engineer, but I suspect that they don't really think too much about "guy in the hotel across the street shooting down at the crowd" settings for lighting. He was probably hiding under the console.

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 11:05 PM  

"It would be simple to have a hotel policy that requires the disassembly of, say, a golf bag, every time a guest checks in with one. Because one can hide more than one disassembled rifle inside one. Sheesh. I'm pretty sure the bellhop wasn't handed a SAW to carry."

shut up.

Jesus Christ. You're the idiot that got us TSA.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 11:06 PM  

What happens in Vegas does not stay in Vegas after all. Another American myth shattered.

OpenID ee6e3dd2-c3a3-11e3-b44f-000bcdca4d7a October 02, 2017 11:06 PM  

@75

you're ignoring the 1986 fopa, unless you're talking forged manufacture dates.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass October 02, 2017 11:08 PM  

This guy has no idea what he's talking about and has never been shot at. I have, once, on accident by some dips*** trespassing on a friend's land I was target shooting on one time.

He shot at my area, unaware if that round were maybe ten feet lower it would have hit me square in the head. The sound behind The barrel versus in front of the barrel are two different things.

It is easy to look at what happened and criticize from the safety of your computer after the fact. For anyone who's been in a situation that is life and death, the first instinct is always survival. Therefore I have no problem believing the majority of wounded as well as probably the majority of debt were trampled to death.

As others have said acoustics make for weird echoes etc. My money is still on a modded AR.

None the less people like that "journalist" do not understand that most people may flip out over trivial circumstances. Who knows? Maybe his girlfriend jacked a bunch of his money and that set him off. Unfortunately not everything is a conspiracy. Most of what happens in the world is not. That means worse yet they are simply people who may lose it and you will have no way of stopping them.

Does anybody remember the Bath school bombing? Remember the trivial explanation that set that guy off.

Anonymous JI October 02, 2017 11:09 PM  

On God, tin foil hat time. Same thing with every mass shooting. Here we go again. And again.

Blogger Gordon October 02, 2017 11:10 PM  

Don Reynolds, he wasn't worried about accuracy. He had a big honking mass of people, and a whole lot of ammo. As no one has mentioned tracer rounds, he probably couldn't see where his shots were hitting. But he didn't have to. The target area was lighted, and he could see that there were still people there.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 11:12 PM  

Nate wrote:shut up.

Jesus Christ. You're the idiot that got us TSA.


Now, to be fair, metal detectors won't show a bag full of sex toys, which are mostly plastic, except for the batteries

Blogger Gordon October 02, 2017 11:12 PM  

Sorry, Nate. Perhaps I should have had the sarcasm light on. Of course it would be stupid to try to search luggage.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 02, 2017 11:14 PM  

I'm thinking most of the people were injured and killed in the panic. He's shooting at three hundred yards full auto and thirty stories in the air. He's more of a gun guy than his brother let on but that's pretty good shooting. When did he practice three hundred yards away from hundreds of feet above?

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 11:15 PM  

JI wrote:On God, tin foil hat time. Same thing with every mass shooting. Here we go again. And again.

Stop being so neurotic.

And make sure you wash your hands for 20 seconds or it doesn't count.

Blogger Elder Son October 02, 2017 11:15 PM  

Downrange, you hear a loud "CRACK" as the bullet goes past; this is essentially a sonic boom.

As the bullet goes past you, in close proximity is what you mean. Not necessarily "as the bullet goes past", how far? Besides, that is not what you heard in the video. You were hearing the initial blast of the projectile leaving the firearm.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 02, 2017 11:24 PM  

72 minutes does sound like an awfully long time for the police to engage the shooter. ANY police officer that could create a threat to breach the door would be enough to distract the shooter or at least force him to defend himself from police gunfire. 72 minutes of free fire is like a lifetime.

Blogger Lazarus October 02, 2017 11:28 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:72 minutes does sound like an awfully long time for the police to engage the shooter.

Now we have an actual measurement. When seconds count, the police are 72 minutes away.

Anonymous Lawyer Guy October 02, 2017 11:28 PM  

I am a former Marine Corporal, then army MP who got stuck on active duty there as well (short but boring story)

Given a crowd pinned in by fences, and rifle rests acting as tripods, the beaten zone could easily kill that many from two guns only putting out 1k or 2k rounds from 400 meters out.

There is a whole technique and process for setting up beaten zones like this, and with a lot of thought and access to army manuals a smart man could have done the evil that happened in LV.

Blogger Akulkis October 02, 2017 11:32 PM  

300m is not a long way for any half-decent shooter.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 02, 2017 11:34 PM  

Nate wrote:"My alarms first went off when they said the shooter was on the 32nd floor."

are you stupid?



I might be, Nate. But even I am not stupid enough to shoot at a crowd at night from the 32nd floor of a hotel.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 02, 2017 11:38 PM  

The rate of fire sounds like an AK or FAL to me. Probably an AK because of the number of shots fired per burst. Definitely full auto.

And no way the shooter was somewhere else entirely. When you fire that many rounds without a can everyone knows where you are. I'm also pretty sure that those are echoes in the recordings and not a second shooter. It all sounds about like what I would expect. The only thing that's surprising is how slow the reloads were.

Blogger SirGroggy October 02, 2017 11:39 PM  

The way in which the crowd was illuminated from the stage AFTER the shooting began is particularly troubling. What sort of idiot would ever do that? And who was responsible for it?

It makes sense from the point of view of the stage crew. At the beginning, the concert stage is lit. The the gunfire starts. (Also, I think the loudness is appropriate for the Mandalay Bay, it did not sound particularly close.) Then, because the stage crew are concerned that somebody is shooting at the stage (from the crowd, perhaps), they black out the stage so they cannot see targets on the stage. Then, they illuminated the crowd, because they were trying to see if somebody in the crowd were shooting. If somebody were shooting at your house, at night, first thing you might do would be to turn the lights off inside your house, then if you had outdoor flood lights, you would turn those on to illuminate the outside so you can see what is outside your house. By blacking out the house, and then illuminating the outside, they cannot see you and you can see them. It is completely rational.

72 minutes does sound like an awfully long time for the police to engage the shooter.

Everybody is a Monday morning quarter back. The initial video is 2 minutes, and it's just some gunfire and there is only confusion, it's not apparent where it's coming from at all. It sounds distant.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 02, 2017 11:42 PM  

@89 If he had been firing tracers the crowd would have panicked instantly.

Blogger D. October 02, 2017 11:44 PM  

"yes. 2 minutes actually. at 10:09 a tweet went out from a dude claiming the attack was happening from the room above him."

stupid nation: calling the front desk or 911 would be more useful.

Anonymous Sam the Man October 02, 2017 11:47 PM  

I wonder if this is a case similar to the 1966 tower shooter in Texas. That guy was "normal", ex military and one day decided to go kill as many as possible.

Had a brain tumor.

A fellow I worked with had his wife of some 25 years turn into a lesbian, divorce him, drop the two kids who took dads side and move in with a lesbian. Gave up 25 years of life and her kids love.

Turned out the lesbian ex wife had a brain tumor.

Not saying that is the case, but when there is no reasonable answer and if the facts come down the way they seem to be, that he planned this and did it all himself for no conceivable reason, an autopsy might be in order.

Certainly the case seems very puzzling.

Blogger SirGroggy October 02, 2017 11:48 PM  

Crew wrote:Ricocheting bullets tend to hug the ground.

Because they are afraid of heights?


Or because of gravity, and the fact that the bullet has lost a lot of its kinetic energy from the first impact?

Blogger Gordon October 02, 2017 11:48 PM  

103: agree completely. He was probably regretting that he didn't have anything to break the window so he could do a selfie with the shooter.

Blogger SirGroggy October 02, 2017 11:53 PM  

Now we have an actual measurement. When seconds count, the police are 72 minutes away.

The police actually got the guy in 72 minutes whereas it takes the Monday morning quarterbacks until Monday to say how much better they would have done it.

Blogger tublecane October 02, 2017 11:55 PM  

@61-I have performed music live (piano, solo singing, choir, musical theater), not at that level and not in such circumstances, but I can tell you one's mind can wander without it ruining the performance. Mix in the fact that these are professionals playing stuff they've probably played before and the crowd doesn't exactly expect the precision of a classical pianist, and surely they could've been checking out chicks.

Think of all those rock musicians in the gonzo years of the 60s-70s zonked out on goofballs. Do you think they were all note-perfect, with their minds on nothing but upcoming chord changes?

Blogger Nate October 02, 2017 11:57 PM  

"I might be, Nate. But even I am not stupid enough to shoot at a crowd at night from the 32nd floor of a hotel."

well it was a crowd of 22000 people. and it was lit up with giant spot lights.

Blogger Nate October 03, 2017 12:00 AM  

"stupid nation: calling the front desk or 911 would be more useful"

didn't matter. the first police radio call was at 10:08. They didn't kick the door in until 72 minutes later.

pathetic.

And yes they knew where he was. There is evidence now that at least 2 cops were on the 32nd floor within 10 minutes. and there was a wounded seurity guard on the 32nd floor as well.

That's where the cover up is.

The cops don't want people to find out how badly they fucked up.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 03, 2017 12:04 AM  

Leftist are killing us by the dozens and cops are, once again, unable to protect anyone but themselves. Yep, time to give up our guns.

Blogger Nate October 03, 2017 12:06 AM  

"The police actually got the guy in 72 minutes whereas it takes the Monday morning quarterbacks until Monday to say how much better they would have done it."

that would be fine and dandy if we didn't have a history of police standing around and doing nothing at columbine.. and sandy hook... and aurora.. and... and... and...

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:10 AM  

Leftist are killing us by the dozens and cops are, once again, unable to protect anyone but themselves. Yep, time to give up our guns.

People are so anxious to make something slot into their pre-existing narrative. For example - the statement that he is a 'leftist' killing 'us'.

This was not a 'leftist' act of violence. It was not political, it was not targeted at a right-wing event or right-wing people - it was a crowd of random people.

I wish people would stop trying to make facts conform to their bias.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 03, 2017 12:11 AM  

Yeah, the 72-minute delay is the most eyebrow-raising part of the story, but then you remember that real cops aren't like movie cops or even ordinary people with a loved one in danger, and they'll gladly sit on the safe side of a door and listen to people being shot on the other side for as long as it takes to insure their own safety. No surprise they'd want to cloud that issue.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 03, 2017 12:12 AM  

@113 It's possible that the target was random, but I doubt it. The crowd at a country music concert, on the other hand, is definitely not a crowd of random people. They are white and right-wing.

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:13 AM  

the first police radio call was at 10:08. They didn't kick the door in until 72 minutes later.

pathetic.


They did a hard job and a very dangerous job, the guy was heavily armed and highly dangerous, and they got the guy.

What have you ever done that's as dangerous as that?

How fast would you have kicked the door in, from getting a phone call and not knowing what the hell is going on?

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:14 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Pennywise October 03, 2017 12:14 AM  

Indeed, more tin hat tom-foolery. Jim Stone, Independent Journalist? More like Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute.

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/jimstonethefugitivehero03mar12.shtml

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:18 AM  

It's possible that the target was random, but I doubt it. The crowd at a country music concert, on the other hand, is definitely not a crowd of random people. They are white and right-wing.

The shooter was a middle aged white male, seems to be a WASP.

Blogger Nate October 03, 2017 12:18 AM  

"They did a hard job and a very dangerous job, the guy was heavily armed and highly dangerous, and they got the guy."

They didn't get the guy. They waited till he offed himself.

I would think trained cops would engage the suspect... which is what their fucking rules of engagement say they are supposed to do.

You know... like a common concealed carry holder did in Nashville in the same situation.

Instead they waited like bitches.

Fuck them.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 03, 2017 12:19 AM  

@117 If Paddock had a right-wing bone in his body we would have heard about it by now. The media's "we just don't understand" game means they don't want to report the truth.

Blogger Nate October 03, 2017 12:20 AM  

"
How fast would you have kicked the door in, from getting a phone call and not knowing what the hell is going on?"

I would've done exactly like the first cops did. I would've gone to the 32nd floor where all the reports were coming from. I would've heard the gun fire and I would have kicked in the door and engaged the target. Because if he is shooting at me he is NOT shooting at 20000 people below.

Blogger Nate October 03, 2017 12:21 AM  

especially considering there were TWO cops up there. 2 on 1. God Damn right they should have engaged him.

Pathetic cowards.

Just exactly like Columbine. Sit on their hands and wait will he kills hundres.. then call themselves heros.

Fuck them.

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:22 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:23 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 03, 2017 12:25 AM  

The cops' waiting over an hour to storm the room shows a total indifference to the people being murdered on the streets below. I think a half dozen Ilk with .22 pistols could have done better.

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:25 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 03, 2017 12:29 AM  

@127 They're not just cops. They're super cops.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 03, 2017 12:29 AM  

There's a reason our society historically shows cops a high level of respect and gives them a generous pension after an unusually short career, and it's not for putting their own safety first. It's because we expect them to risk their lives once in a while to save others, or at least to be willing to. If that's not what they are, if they're just bureaucrats who clean up after events and write reports, then maybe we should treat them differently. We should disarm them, at the very least.

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 12:30 AM  

They did a hard job and a very dangerous job, the guy was heavily armed and highly dangerous, and they got the guy.

Yep. We want to dress them up like combat soldiers breaching door to door, then expect them to not act like it. Unless it is safe. 2 shields, det cord, and 2 flash-bangs bang-bang. 2 man overwatch at each end of the hallway, 4 man entry includes the 2 shields first. Ah, but the fog of war.

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 12:31 AM  

Everybody is a Monday morning quarterback.

Blogger ShadowyObserver October 03, 2017 12:32 AM  

Anyone ever been under fire from a full-automatic "squad weapon" like RPK, M249, etc. the sounds on the video are quite authentic. You can tell the cracks and actual reports mixing in a bit wavy, almost "backfiring" pattern. That is what a full-automatic weapon going rock'n roll (pun intended) sounds like ~300m away. Yes, it is loud and also bouncing (echo) from different structures + nothing blocks / disperses it from the vantage point either. Surely music at concerts is loud-ish, but nothing to compare to a intermediate / medium to heavy caliber firearm going "loud". Also the sound is quite accurate for the distance reported. So yes, no tinfoil, please. It also makes your teeth hurt *if* you bite it... the reporter did that to my brain when I read the "expert" dissection.

Blogger Jonathan Graehl October 03, 2017 12:34 AM  

I believe the official story.
Even if the performers couldn't hear the gunshots (ask them!) they could have reacted to the crowd reacting to them.

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 12:35 AM  

Everybody is a Monday morning quarterback.

But only for 72 +/- minutes.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 12:42 AM  

A police car is concealment (from observation) but not cover (from gunfire). The cops behind the car are concealing themselves from whatever is on the opposite side of the car... Observing to the side, and/or receiving orders.

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 12:45 AM  

And they call themselves "operators" to boot.

Anonymous Jack Amok October 03, 2017 12:45 AM  

Everybody is a Monday morning quarterback.

Yeah, so, Sunday afternoon quarterbacks get benched and cut when they fail to do their jobs.

What department do you work for anyway, Groggy?

Anonymous Looking Glass October 03, 2017 12:46 AM  

@123 Nate

Since Columbine, they've been training to engage the shooters quickly from cover, not stage & wait. LVPD would know this, as these are actually murder-suicide plans. Also, these are Las Vegas casinos, and they don't have extremely heavily armed security staff? It looks like a lot of failed responses all around. (Which is normally why death toll gets big.)

@119 SirGroggy

Mid-60s isn't middle aged. He's an older Man. Though with a family history of psychosis, so maybe the UT-Austin Tower Sniper really is more on repeat.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 03, 2017 12:46 AM  

They were probably operating some hot coffee and donuts while machine gun fire was raining down on the concert crowd.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 03, 2017 12:52 AM  

SirGroggy wrote:How fast would you have kicked the door in, from getting a phone call and not knowing what the hell is going on?
Dude you have no idea what other people are and do. I don't consider myself particularly brave or heroic, but I took down, barehanded, a guy who I had every reason to believe was armed, and who was definitely in a PCP-induced psychotic rage, tearing apart a convenience store. It turned out the gun several people claimed to see was hallucinatory, but I sure didn't know that.

Most ordinary men would have busted down the door and tried to take that guy out. It takes a lot of training or a lot of cowardice to resist that impulse.

Anonymous Jack Amok October 03, 2017 12:54 AM  

There's a reason our society historically shows cops a high level of respect and gives them a generous pension after an unusually short career, and it's not for putting their own safety first. It's because we expect them to risk their lives once in a while to save others, or at least to be willing to. If that's not what they are, if they're just bureaucrats who clean up after events and write reports, then maybe we should treat them differently. We should disarm them, at the very least.

Yep. Not much reason for 'em to be armed if the only reason they carry guns is to shoot the family dog.

Now, I'm pretty sure there are at least a half-dozen cops on the force of my little cow-town who would've kicked that door down and gone in. But we're kinda particular about who we hire, and, given the relative safety and serenity of the place, we can be. Somebody who knows he'll charge into that room probably doesn't want to put himself in that position very often.

Just another reason to avoid big cities.

Blogger bobby October 03, 2017 1:02 AM  

Just for some missed perspective:

The guy's shooting a rifle. Sounds like 5.56. It's not a situation where cops can huddle around a doorway waiting to burst in. If he turns around periodically and rakes his room wall adjacent to the hallway, he's putting a line of bullets through the wall, and probably through the wall on the other side of the hallway. So, the cops are likely huddled three rooms away, waiting for full body armor because otherwise it's suicide.

Not a cop-lover, but just trying for some balance here . . .

Blogger Darwinite October 03, 2017 1:05 AM  

Since I've been there - stayed at the Excalibur to drop my younger brother off at a music festival at that site, and walked to the Mandalay Bay to pick up his ticket, I can tell you that the distance is nowhere near 1500 feet. That's about 10 times the actual distance. 1500 feet would be way past Tropicana, or somewhere on the far side of McCarran field. Where the shooter was, was diagonally across an intersection, with no obstacles.

Blogger Unknown October 03, 2017 1:06 AM  

The cops did not sit around for 71 minutes. The bad guy was engaging them through the damned hotel room door, that is how the hotel security guy got shot. The cops waited for SWAT to show up and do an explosive breach, they did not kick the door down. Your everyday patrol officer does not have plastique as regular kit, and we do not pay them to storm a doorway (AKA fatal funnel) against a known heavily armed shooter with a rifle.

The shooter was not hosing down the concert venue for 71 minutes, he likely self selected as soon as he knew cops were outside his door, like spree shooters usually do when they face the first sign of opposition.

God damn you Monday morning quarterbacks are fucking annoying.

Anonymous Panzer Man October 03, 2017 1:06 AM  

SirGroggy wrote:It's possible that the target was random, but I doubt it. The crowd at a country music concert, on the other hand, is definitely not a crowd of random people. They are white and right-wing.

The shooter was a middle aged white male, seems to be a WASP.


Because there's NO such thing as a whole boatload of WHITE leftists who have been going berserk ever since Trump won the election, right, you insufferable know-it-all?

Blogger ZhukovG October 03, 2017 1:07 AM  

As a former cop let me just throw in my two cents. The Las Vegas Chief of Police should resign and then commit seppuku.

As for the two cops that arrived on scene in 10 minutes. They probably called in, and were told to wait.

This was a failure of command.

Blogger Ned October 03, 2017 1:23 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Nick October 03, 2017 1:23 AM  

The first eyewitness interview I saw was from a guy who said he was in a "VIP area" on the far side of the concert, opposite the hotel. People were being shot all around him so he was certain shots were coming from a high angle. If the stage crew was coordinating with the gunman(men) he didn't illuminate the people that were being shot, at least according to this one guy's story. It's reasonable to expect the sound of automatic gunfire to be amplified off of a large building, especially once the music stops. I watched the same video that claims to "destroy the narrative" when this all started and there is no indication that the gunfire comes from above the stage, it sounds like its coming from the right of camera shot (stage left) where the camera pans after a few moments. My initial reaction was that there was someone in the crowd doing the shooting, but I haven't seen any evidence of this.

I'd suggest better sources than an "independent journalist" with "THE 100,000 RADIATIONS/VACCINE REPORT THAT PROVES THE ASHKENAZI ARE DESTROYING ALL CHILDREN" featured on his site. This type of crap is not credible Vox. These sites throw every single conspiracy under the sun at you, conveniently obscuring and undermining the legitimate ones.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 1:27 AM  

@DonReynolds
Hitting targets as presented in this circumstance isn't as hard as you're making it out to be.

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 1:29 AM  

The guy's shooting a rifle. Sounds like 5.56.

AK. More rap more dullard.

Blogger Ned October 03, 2017 1:31 AM  

This video makes the MSM single shooter story line a little hard to swallow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdoQq5bn7b4

Anonymous CloseHauled October 03, 2017 1:31 AM  

Two different videos showing muzzle flashes coming from around 4th floor. One from a female police officer's cam.

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 1:33 AM  

Hitting targets as presented in this circumstance isn't as hard as you're making it out to be.

Well, considering: https://youtu.be/Rw-wrPfbE5k?t=1m2s

Running makes a harder target, at least until you can get to a solid concealment. SOme people actually ran into porta-potties.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 1:35 AM  

Nearly every automatic weapons range that I have fired on has been firing at silhouette targets in a valley. Downward firing angle is something you're barely aware of.

In this instance, it makes elevation error on the sights almost meaningless... High..low,, you're gonna hit somebody

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 03, 2017 1:37 AM  

CloseHauled wrote:Two different videos showing muzzle flashes coming from around 4th floor. One from a female police officer's cam.
Given that the windows are the type that do not open, show us a picture of the broken window.
Since they are covered in a specialized bronze coating, they could not readily and quickly be replaced.

Blogger bobby October 03, 2017 1:45 AM  

Elder Son wrote:

AK. More rap more dullard.


I thought the sound was heavier, too, but I'm hearing they found 4 Daniel Defense DDM$'s and a couple FN-15's. I'm assuming they were converted to SF, but ??

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 1:52 AM  

bobby,

Maybe. The reverberation off the walls might make it sound heavier. AK was my first thought. I guess we'll find out. Or, they might go after those evil black guns.

Blogger Elder Son October 03, 2017 1:59 AM  

But, it is easier to convert and AK than AR's. Either way, where did he get this knowledge?

Blogger bobby October 03, 2017 1:59 AM  

"Or, they might go after those evil black guns."

Yeah, damned killer guns. I keep cable locks through all of mine just so they can't come after me at night.

Blogger Silly but True October 03, 2017 2:04 AM  

AmI the only one who thought this was the best line? "Interesting it is that the concert was called the 'Route 91 harvest' and took place on route 91!"

Jesus H. Christ, I think Hercule Poirot himself must have written this account of what really happened.

Anonymous map October 03, 2017 2:13 AM  

Look, bullets are designed to burn through all of their powder at about the point the bullet leaves the muzzle. Terminal velocity is at its peak when the bullet exists the barrel...meaning it is traveling supersonic when it leaves the barrel. From there it is slowing down before it hits its target.

Where are these residual sonic booms that you would get 1500 feet away from the shooter? They would not exist. The sound barrier was already broken at the point that the bullet left the muzzle. It would hit quietly at a distance.

The point is that the sonic boom at the Mandalay Bay would've been drowned out by the concert. Yet, you are hearing gunfire going off at the point of the concert itself. how is that possible if the fire is coming from Mandalay Bay?

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 October 03, 2017 2:26 AM  

" 1500 feet would be way past Tropicana, or somewhere on the far side of McCarran field. Where the shooter was, was diagonally across an intersection, with no obstacles."

Well 1500 doesn't even get you to the runways let alone across the airfield. Having been to the area and walking the strip quite a bit I can absolutely believe its 1500 feet.

If the scale on Google Satellite is to be trusted the event is about 600 feet East, 900 feet North, and what? roughly 350-380 feet closer to earth center. So About 1100 line of sight to the stage. And of course the area extends for quite a bit to the north beyond that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 03, 2017 2:29 AM  

map wrote:Look, bullets are designed to burn through all of their powder at about the point the bullet leaves the muzzle.
At this point, everybody who actually knows anything about guns has already dismissed all that follows.
As they should, because it's nonsense.
A projectile going 3x the speed of sound does not suddenly decelerate when it is out of the barrel.

The crack is not a sound, per se, that is created once and then heard by observers. It is heard when the sonic boom, an effect of the passage of the bullet though the air at greater than Mach 1, passes by the observer, if he is within range of the shock wave. It travels with and at the speed of the bullet.
You obviously have no idea how loud guns and bullets are, or how sound works.

Anonymous Gurpgork October 03, 2017 2:31 AM  

The thing that bothers me is: Why would he have 17 guns up there and not use them.
It looks like an awful lot of trouble (and risk) to bring 17 guns up there and then only use a few and kill yourself. Wouldn't it be better to just bring more ammo?

And the police taking 72 minutes... the only way this makes sense is if he actually ran out of ammo and then decided to kill himself.

Anonymous map October 03, 2017 2:45 AM  

Snidely Whiplash,

The bullet is not operating under thrust. It is a passive object that is decelerating the moment it hits air, because air has mass. How do you think a silencer reduces the noise of a supersonic round? By decelerating the expanding gasses to below supersonic speed, while still maintaining the effective range of the round.

The muzzle velocity of 3,700 ft. sec does not give it an effective range of 3,700 feet. The rapidly decelerating bullet will mitigate the sonic boom heard by anyone at a distance to something lower than what is heard at the point of firing the gun.

The point is that the bullet fired from a distance and quieted by gravity and air is not going to overcome the sound of a concert at full blast...unless the gun is fired from inside the concert itself.

Anonymous map October 03, 2017 2:46 AM  

Gurpgork,

Because it is staged. FN's and DDM's are also very expensive guns...almost $2,000 a piece.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 03, 2017 2:49 AM  

Interesting fact. Since the shock wave is cone shaped, trailing behind the bullet like a 3-D ship wake, you don't actually hear the crack until the bullet is past you.

Anonymous Guns guns guns! The Tigers are playing TO-NIGHT October 03, 2017 2:49 AM  

The NFPA has requirements for assembly occupancies which include minimum footcandle illumination for life safety. Something like 3fc, which is about twice as much as you get in a parking lot. NFPA doesn't exactly cover outdoor assemblies as I recall, but the UBC does.

Point is, the LV Fire Marshall will make damn sure that a big outdoor concert will be able to provide emergency life safety lighting. Life safety meaning that there are big lights that will light up the public area to a minimum of 3fc, an emergency generator and transfer switch to make sure that those lights will shine even if terrorists take out the electrical sub-station, and a Big Red Button to make all of this happen instantaneously.

The Independent Journalist was confused by this because he's an Independent Journalist who doesn't know anything and doesn't do any research. I.e., he's like all the other journalists, except the other journalists get a salary+benefits while being lazy, uninformed hacks.

As sad a commentary as it is on the human condition, people can lose their grip and go rogue. The scale ranges from becoming a vegetarian (a 1) to buying a truck-load of fertilizer and diesel fuel (an 8.5).

(The final 1.5 points are reserved for Kim Jong Un levels up to Josef Stalin. I decided this 10-point scale needed to be logarithmic about the same time I choose vegetarianism as a starting point. Vegans are a 1.3. Angry ex-pats are 1.5.)

To be honest, I was pretty convinced by Jim Stone's site. The amateurish way his site is designed screams authenticity. The large number of links on the page suggests rigorous research into the Deep Webs of the Internets Tubes. I spend most of my day on the Internet arguing with imbeciles, but he strikes me as genuine.

But he was totally wrong about how the concert venue turned the house lights up when something bad happened.

Blogger Azimus October 03, 2017 3:00 AM  

160. map October 03, 2017 2:13 AM
Where are these residual sonic booms that you would get 1500 feet away from the shooter? They would not exist. The sound barrier was already broken at the point that the bullet left the muzzle. It would hit quietly at a distance.


Does the sonic boom wave front dissipate completely in 1500ft? I'm not a ballistics expert but that doesn't make a lot of sense in that short of a distance. The wave front advances at 1125ft/s or whatever it is in Las Vegas. At 1500ft, interestingly a 7.62x39 round arrives at about the same time as the report of the shot.

Blogger roughcoat October 03, 2017 3:04 AM  

What have you ever done that's as dangerous as that?

Why do people always assume nobody they're talking to online has ever done something as dangerous as clear a room? That's especially retarded because we've had over a decade of war in which urban warfare was a significant component. There are an awful lot of veterans floating around who have assaulted hard targets.

Cops have shown time and again that their SOP is to cordon off the active shooter to contain him and just wait it out, so I imagine that's what they did here. Pretty fucking gay if you ask me, especially since we've seen in other mass shootings that attacking is a damn good way to get the shooter to off himself.

Anonymous CoolHand October 03, 2017 3:04 AM  

Have you ever been shot at, map? If you had, you'd know that what you are saying is complete nonsense.

Yes, the bullet starts decelerating the moment is leaves the barrel, but because it has mass it also has momentum, so it doesn't slow down immediately.

5.56NATO goes transonic at ~600yds, so until it reaches that range it has a tiny shockwave cone traveling along with it (which is what causes the "sonic boom" or sharp crack you hear when the round passes you by).

None of this up for discussion, it is well established fact.

Just because you don't know or understand something doesn't make it untrue.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 3:07 AM  

Looking at Google maps...and Pythagorean equation, distance is 300~350 m....not difficult to hit a lone human using only iron sights...trivial to creates mayhem with an automatic rifle or machine gun.

Anonymous CoolHand October 03, 2017 3:29 AM  

For those who do not think a tiny shockwave travels along with a supersonic bullet, I give you exhibit A, a micrograph of a bullet moving at faster than the speed of sound.

https://kek.gg/i/7Lfrx3.jpg

Notice the cone shaped line coming off the nose of the bullet? That's the diffraction caused by the thickened air of the sonic shockwave.

Anonymous You don't want cellphone audio to be verified proof. October 03, 2017 3:32 AM  

Azimus wrote:160. map October 03, 2017 2:13 AM

Where are these residual sonic booms that you would get 1500 feet away from the shooter? They would not exist. The sound barrier was already broken at the point that the bullet left the muzzle. It would hit quietly at a distance.


Does the sonic boom wave front dissipate completely in 1500ft? I'm not a ballistics expert but that doesn't make a lot of sense in that short of a distance. The wave front advances at 1125ft/s or whatever it is in Las Vegas. At 1500ft, interestingly a 7.62x39 round arrives at about the same time as the report of the shot.


You're basing this on Twitter videos where you A) don't know the origin point in measurable reference to the video and B) the uncertainty load WRT audio/video sync in mobile devices.

Blogger SirGroggy October 03, 2017 3:32 AM  

Why do people always assume nobody they're talking to online has ever done something as dangerous as clear a room?

Because of the overwhelming density of these internet Monday morning quarterback keyboard Navy Seals with 300 confirmed kills.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 3:32 AM  

Map...a supersonic body roduces a Sonic no for as long as it continues to travel faster than Mach 1

Anonymous MawBTS October 03, 2017 3:33 AM  

unless many of the injuries are related to trampling rather than shooting, that is plausible

That was my thought, too. None of us are as dangerous as all of us.

The guy is pretty confident about events that are pretty unclear, or ambiguous.

The gunfire was simply too loud and too local in reference to the concert for the official story to hold.

How does he know this? Is he an audio engineer? What's the appropriate volume for a shooting at a music concert, and how did he arrive at this number?

The concert was LOUD when the shooting happened.

It sounds like a quiet part of the song. The guitars have dropped out and there's just bass, vocals, and a kick drum. This is significant, as it leaves the mid and high frequencies wide open. It doesn't matter if there's loud bass, if a missing frequency suddenly gets filled, you'll hear it.

You simply can't outdo a concert from that far away

Fact not in evidence.

no one would have heard it over the music, especially the performers, who have equipment that is designed to block the sound of the concert

If he's referring to "in-ear monitors", they're not supposed to block the sound of the concert, they're supposed to deliver a balanced mix of all the instruments from the FOH to the performers.

And how does he know they're wearing in-ears? Maybe they are, maybe they're not. It's a country/western event, not Cannibal Corpse.

And there's signs that they DON'T hear it over the music. They keep on playing for nearly nine seconds after the shooting starts, before the bassist finally drops out.

POINT TWO: Audio recording equipment (even on a camcorder) automatically sets the level of the audio to optimal. The concert was LOUD, it is obvious because the crowd cannot be heard when the music is playing. Then gunfire clearly is louder than the concert, even though according to the official story it originated 1500 feet away. The automatic level control in the audio recorder proves the gunfire was simply too loud in relation to the music to have come from Mandalay Bay, it had to have originated above the speakers.

I can hear the crowd.

Yeah, audio recorders tend to "stomp" on loud signals, but you need to know exact details about the device and its settings before making assertions like this, none of which he knows.

Particularly, he doesn't know what the dB threshold is, or the RMS, or the speed of attack, or the speed of release. Suppose the phone's clipping circuitry had a soft knee, a slow attack, and a fast release. You'd easily hear a loud sound punching through.

Watch the video. The stage crew cuts everything to black, and then takes the stage lighting, points it directly out at the crowd, and turns it back on to illuminate the crowd. The shooting does not resume until this process is complete. This was a deliberate act that no one would have thought of off the cuff unless it was planned ahead of time. Without a doubt, someone on the stage crew was involved in this shooting.

Someone turned a light on. I don't get it. What's suspicious about this?

Interesting it is that the concert was called the "Route 91 harvest" and took place on route 91!

I still don't get it.

Anonymous Saracen III October 03, 2017 3:36 AM  

The AK-47 fires the 7.62x39mm round. At 350 yards it is still supersonic, drops 4 feet from point-of-aim and hits with the energy of a .45 pistol at 5 yards. The casualty figures are realistic.

Blogger wreckage October 03, 2017 3:42 AM  

ROUTE 91 HARVEST OF SOULS FOR THE DARK GODS, obviously. Because "harvest" and "country music" otherwise have no logical reason for appearing together.

How did the organizers know there would be a HARVEST on ROUTE 91? Because they PLANNED IT THAT WAY!

A BLATANT CLUE!

(I really expected him to tie "route 91" to "9/11", so I was a bit disappointed. He needs to nutball harder.)

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 3:50 AM  

@map

Gravity does not dissipate sound. Do you even physics, bro?

Methinks you are too short for this ride.

Blogger Matthew Davis October 03, 2017 3:51 AM  

There are plenty of videos of the event out there, and I see no evidence of a second shooter in any of them. That said, something does feel bizarre about all of this. A couple of things that stand out as odd to me:

1. Marilou Danley. The police posted her picture after Paddock was killed, before they had even released that he was the shooter. Why were they so concerned with finding her? They weren't even aware she was in another country.

2. Why has the number of weapons located in a single location constantly changed? How many days does it take to count the number of guns in one suite? In the last press briefing they still said that the number may change from 23.

3. They are slowly trickling out information about the types of weapons, but they claimed that they haven't determined if any of the weapons were truly full automatic. My guess is that some of them are and that they weren't purchased legally and registered with the ATF.

4. According to this story: http://abcnews.go.com/US/guns-loaded-high-capacity-magazines-found-vegas-shooters/story?id=50228093

"One official said Paddock had a camera mounted in the room, apparently to record himself."

If true that seems completely bizarre. Why would a suicidal "lone wolf" record himself? Broadcasting it to some other party on the other hand...


If no apparent motive is found, he will have handed gun control advocates the perfect gift, especially if video of him committing the crime comes out. A video of a seemingly sane man mowing down a crowd of conservatives with a giant pile of legally purchased weapons could probably convince quite a few cucks to start considering gun control.

That being said, my gut tells me he wasn't really acting alone. That same video sent to a group like Antifa would also be a pretty damn good tutorial on how to cause mass casualty events.

Blogger wreckage October 03, 2017 3:52 AM  

The real story, dear friends and valued enemies, is going to be plenty weird enough without getting some IQ80 conspiracy shyte all up in your face.

I've made a tentative observation that part of the IQ gap is that sometimes very smart people are seduced by incredibly stupid theorists. Their intellectual powerhouse runs around painting in gaps in the theory and becoming convinced that these are intuitive leaps the theorist has made, rather than sucking voids of pure, quantum-vacuum stupidity.

In short, just as Vox may find it hard to discern between an average and an intelligent individual, so he may find it hard to differentiate between bold intuitive leaps and the kind of imaginative lies and fantasies idiots and retarded children produce.

That, finding intelligent individuals hair-tearingly stupid, he has *literally no concept* of the kind of stupid we merely smart people encounter everyday and which drives us to an angry arrogance that is, from his perspective, quite unfounded.

Blogger wreckage October 03, 2017 3:54 AM  

"A video of a seemingly sane man mowing down a crowd of conservatives with a giant pile of legally purchased weapons could probably convince quite a few cucks to start considering gun control."

Exactly. And he only killed the kind of people that stop sensible gun control from happening.

This was a political crime, and a hate crime, and it was carried out with a clear conscience, at least, until the final moments.

Blogger wreckage October 03, 2017 3:56 AM  

@182, I mean in his own mind.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 4:13 AM  

...or....alternatively, Jim Stone, Independent Journalist is merely tail (yet another internet look).

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 4:14 AM  

* yaik... Damned autocorrect.

Blogger Akulkis October 03, 2017 4:17 AM  

@CoolHand and @Azimus

I'm pretty sure map just f*cking loves science.

Anonymous CoolHand October 03, 2017 4:35 AM  

Akulkis wrote:
I'm pretty sure map just f*cking loves science.


As do we all.

Just like Negro Space Jesus Neil DeGreased Tyson (PBUH).

In fact, I'ma go touch Science in its no-no place right f'ing now.

I'll be in my bunk...

Anonymous Everything bad is not related to anything I've said October 03, 2017 4:36 AM  

Matthew Davis wrote:There are plenty of videos of the event out there, and I see no evidence of a second shooter in any of them. That said, something does feel bizarre about all of this. A couple of things that stand out as odd to me:

1. Marilou Danley. The police posted her picture after Paddock was killed, before they had even released that he was the shooter. Why were they so concerned with finding her? They weren't even aware she was in another country.

2. Why has the number of weapons located in a single location constantly changed? How many days does it take to count the number of guns in one suite? In the last press briefing they still said that the number may change from 23.

3. They are slowly trickling out information about the types of weapons, but they claimed that they haven't determined if any of the weapons were truly full automatic. My guess is that some of them are and that they weren't purchased legally and registered with the ATF.

4. According to this story: http://abcnews.go.com/US/guns-loaded-high-capacity-magazines-found-vegas-shooters/story?id=50228093

"One official said Paddock had a camera mounted in the room, apparently to record himself."

If true that seems completely bizarre. Why would a suicidal "lone wolf" record himself? Broadcasting it to some other party on the other hand...

If no apparent motive is found, he will have handed gun control advocates the perfect gift, especially if video of him committing the crime comes out. A video of a seemingly sane man mowing down a crowd of conservatives with a giant pile of legally purchased weapons could probably convince quite a few cucks to start considering gun control.

That being said, my gut tells me he wasn't really acting alone. That same video sent to a group like Antifa would also be a pretty damn good tutorial on how to cause mass casualty events.


Repeat until revoked.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 03, 2017 4:40 AM  

Las Vegas didn't have a single helicopter? Strange.

Last time I was near the Mandalay, the strip had at least two LVPD helicopters, in air, within sniper range, patroling the strip.

But maybe they put them away for massive outdoor concerts. You know, because of the rotor noise.

There is no possible way they could have had an eye and return fire on an open window in the Mandalay within an hour and twelve minutes. I mean, it took people fully armed with cell phones nearly many seconds to target the window.

You can't expect pro bureaucrats to beat that.

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis October 03, 2017 4:42 AM  

Listen to the transcript I posted in the other thread. Key thing is shooting stopped after 15 minutes. Explains why the cops didn't rush the room once they were on 32nd floor -- no shooting was happening. The shooter (or shooters) had already stopped.

Was the dead guy the shooter? The only shooter? Why so many distraction calls about shootings at other locations (that turned out to be false)? Was there a group behind this that killed the one shooter and bailed out? Like the Kennedy President assignation we will likely never know.

Blogger roughcoat October 03, 2017 4:51 AM  

So far they're saying he had a ridiculous number of guns with him. WTF for?

If I wanted to do something like this I'd bring 4-6 guns tops: two or three rifles for the actual murdering (switch out rifles to avoid overheating), plus a carbine and pistol for any fighting I had to do up close. Possibly a pistol grip shotgun for breaching, though I'm having trouble thinking why that would be necessary. I would bring a metric assload of loaded mags, not a pile of extra guns. I can think of a lot of stuff that would be more useful than 15 extra long guns I'd never have a chance to use.

Of course, this guy might have been some kind of nitwit who doesn't know it's quicker and easier to reload than drop a rifle and pick up another one.

But it reminds me of that scene in Eagle Eye where Shia Laboof gets to his apartment and it's absolutely packed with recently delivered weapons and explosives, part of a setup to frame him as a terrorist. It sounds impressive on the news to the average idiot who doesn't know better, but a single shooter dragging 15-20 guns up to the 32nd floor perch just sounds bizarre to this former professional.

Blogger Thomas777 October 03, 2017 4:59 AM  

military personnel can also call in arc light, or whatever its contemporary equivalent is. 5-0 are at a basic disadvantage for myriad reasons, comparatively. i have no love for LE but i think this must be acknowledged. also...what doesnt add up about this case isnt the body count, the distance etc. does anybody take notice that this shooters bio makes no sense and media claima he had no motive? 64 year old retirex guy who is a millionaire for no reason, is the son of a bank robber, has a mail order chink bride, no felony jacket of his own, decides to murder dozens of strangers without cause one day in old age. this is absurd.

Anonymous map October 03, 2017 5:16 AM  

Akulkis,

http://gundata.org/blog/post/223-ballistics-chart/

This is a link to ballistics data for the 5.56x45mm round.

As you can see from the chart, the 5.56mm has great ballistics at about 200 yards, with very little dropoff.

Look at how rapidly, however, you get that dropoff beyond 200 yards. What do you think is happening here? The round is rapidly decelerating.

By 1500 feet, it has decelerated rapidly to about 1300 feet per sec. However, according to the physics forum below, the bullet does not sustain the initial crack of the sonic boom that you hear when it is fired, but maintains a whistling sound as it decelerates through the air.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-sonic-boom-why-not.531823/

The point is that what you hear at the muzzle is not going to be the same as what you hear at the target because the ballistics of this round are deteriorating with distance. The loud cracks we are hearing in the video sound like they are much closer to the venue than the Mandalay Bay.

Blogger wreckage October 03, 2017 5:22 AM  

@192 He has a motive. This was a hate crime.

Blogger Matt Davis October 03, 2017 5:23 AM  

Maybe he wasn't sure which weapon would be the most effective. Maybe he wanted to make it seem that there were multiple shooters inside to delay an entry attempt.

Maybe he wanted to give the media a bigger list of weapon types to portray as mass killing machines.

Blogger Matt Davis October 03, 2017 5:31 AM  

What videos are you watching? It is completely obvious the gunfire isn't close. Some people even say as much and are cracking jokes until bullets start hitting the ground near them.

Anonymous zebedee October 03, 2017 5:43 AM  

A quick look at Google Maps would suggest that the figure of 1500 ft distance from the Mandaly to the concert venue is way off. It appears to me that from the hotel to the stage is about 250 yards or about half the distance the article is suggesting. And given that the concert goers were probably clustered close to the stage when the shooting started, it's hard to see how he couldn't hit a significant number of people when he first started shooting. His target would have been a sea of heads and upper torsos.

Anonymous Ages October 03, 2017 6:01 AM  

Leadership seemed over-concerned with establishing various staging areas (for unclear purposes and uncertain locations).

This.

I think officers were probably just in shock and went into training mode. When there’s a shooting and people dying, you call for help.

You could hear the frustration in the voices of dispatch because officers still under fire were asking for medical assistance—you can’t do that. One cop said he had five officers ready to provide cover fire for an ambulance; in retrospect that’s insane.

Nobody ever had to face anything like this before. The shooter set up a literal gunner’s nest in that room and the police training simply was not adequate to respond to that. And no fault on the police for that, by the way!

It was like 9/11 in that way. Why was response so slow? Nobody knew what to do; everyone’s response was too small because it took till after it was over to see the full scale.

I do think the lack of motive is bizarre but I dont see a conspiracy in the police response.

Blogger PoseidonAwoke October 03, 2017 6:01 AM  

This story makes no sense on a number of levels. Vox I have to hand it to you, you're one of the few people with balls enough to question the Official Narrative spoon fed to us by our elites. Most people won't truck in 'conspiracy' but you will. The 'conspiracy' narrative is that anyone who questions the Official Narrative, or who could possibly believe that we live in an age of grand illusions pulled off by the elites to manipulate the masses, is simply crazy and should be dismissed out-of-hand. Doesn't that sound exactly like the SJW playbook? Discredit and Disqualify. It doesn't matter how much evidence there is of deception, how many things just don't add up, the playbook is the same: Discredit and Disqualify.

You're attacking an important target: the Conspiracy Narrative is a fence to keep us controlled and we need to undermine it. It should be OK to question and point out inconsistencies and anyone who tries to shut that down with SJW tactics deserves a big middle finger.

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