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Wednesday, October 18, 2017

Dicky Spencer's Dance Party

The Fake Right are complete phonies and they always have been:
After a lifetime of involvement with the far-right Kevin Wilshaw announces on Channel 4 News that he is leaving the movement – at the same time publicly coming out as gay. The well known National Front organiser in the 1980s was still active in white supremacist groups earlier this year – including speaking at events. But tonight on Channel 4 News he explains for the very first time why he is publicly disavowing the movement – sharing his secrets, explaining how he was both a Neo-Nazi and of Jewish heritage.

“You have other members leading National Front who are overtly gay.... “I want to do some damage as well, not to ordinary people but the people who are propagating this kind of rubbish – want to hurt them, show what it’s like for those who are living a lie and be on the receiving end of this type of propaganda, I want to hurt them.”
We should have known this, on the principle that a) SJWs always project and b) SJWs always seek to infiltrate.

I remember being surprised when I interviewed Richard Spencer and discovered him to be to the Left of the entire Brainstorm community and surprisingly vague about anything that was policy related. This was the great extremist, the outlaw intellectual? My initial assumption was that he simply had poor judgment and hadn't really formulated his political philosophy, especially when he went from one public relations debacle to the next without ever managing to accomplish anything substantial or do anything useful.

But it wasn't until I discovered that Spencer had opposed Brexit and supported the European Union that I began to conclude that he, and at least a portion of what I called the Alt White, were not even of the ideological Right at all. I soon got confirmation from Greg Johnson, Andrew Anglin, and their fellow travellers, as they tried to simultaneously - and dishonestly - argue that a) they were the most extreme right of the right-wing, b) any criticism of them was "punching right", and c) the terms of left and right were outdated and meaningless.

I don't know about you, but anyone who has read SJWADD will recognize that form of rhetorical sophistry. It is ambiguity.

Arguments such as the following depend upon ambiguity. ‘Those learn who know: for it is those who know their letters who learn the letters dictated to them’. For to ‘learn’ is ambiguous; it signifies both ‘to understand’ by the use of knowledge, and also ‘to acquire knowledge’. 

And when I had the opportunity to see how Spencer had treated his authors, how he had not paid them or even reported book sales to them for literal years, how he had gone dark rather than respond to repeated telephone calls and emails, I understood that his character was very, very different than he sought to portray it to be.

Once I saw that the Fake Right was not only sophistical and dishonest, but was using its rhetoric in the interest of  pushing its knowing and intentional falsehoods, it became obvious why they were constantly accusing me and other married men of various non-Jewish backgrounds, of being gay and being Jewish. It was, of course, because they were projecting.

There is nothing right about the Fake Right in any sense of the term. They are not of the ideological Right. They are not straight; notice how few of them have wives, girlfriends, or children. And it is increasingly questionable how many of them are even white despite their clownish proclamations about white supremacy. They are no more genuine than the swastikas that so often appear on synagogue walls, the nooses that regularly appear on college campuses, and the date rapes that so often occur to outspoken feminists.

Don't be fooled. There is no truth in them. The Fake Right is The Pink Swastika 2: Iron Menorah.

Labels: ,

228 Comments:

1 – 200 of 228 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Akulkis October 18, 2017 5:39 AM  

Interestingly, the original not-sees were composed of an overwhelming number of gays.

See The Pink Swastika for more gory details than you want, including several studio portraits of Herman Goering in drag, with full make-up. In several different expensive dresses and fancy women's hats.

Once seen, you cannot unseemly them. Also viewable via Google image search.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 18, 2017 5:41 AM  

Once you realize at least some of the Fake Right leadership is (((undercover))), it's a lot easier to explain horrendous "lapses in judgment" like Spencer's Sieg Heil-ing on camera just after the Trumpslide, or the Charlottesville debacle: they're not lapses at all.

Anonymous Live by the Parentheses, Die by the Parentheses October 18, 2017 5:50 AM  

Once I saw that the Fake Right was not only sophistical and dishonest, but was using its rhetoric in the interest of pushing its knowing and intentional falsehoods, it became obvious why they were constantly accusing me and other married men of various non-Jewish backgrounds, of being gay and being Jewish. It was, of course, because they were projecting.

You're a Fake Indian, claiming to be an American, living in Italy, and you're going to lecture us?

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 5:51 AM  

@VD

"The Fake Right is the Pink Swastika 2: Iron Menorah."

As I concluded in the other thread where this came up, it really does seem like Neo-Nazism is simply a gay Jew honeypot operation. Which makes sense. Who would be attracted to a new-aged retread of a failed ideology? Those rebeling against their parents and those attracted to the dark power you get with hating the "Other".

This is maybe an aside, but it should also be noted that no one seems to want to get back to actual Imperialism. You want to go some form of Hard Right that'll really piss people off? Start talking about pre-Crimean War British Imperialism. But that has no attraction to the Reichtard crowd. I wonder why? The Empire was real power.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 5:53 AM  

20 minutes, and we've had almost no sign of the Stormpoopers for a while. I'm guessing someone has alerts set.

Anonymous Jack Amok October 18, 2017 6:03 AM  

"Hello fellow (((straight))) people..."

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 6:17 AM  

@6 Jack Amok

I'm laughing about that line, but it's starting to hit home just how deeply accurate that is.

Anonymous Just sayin October 18, 2017 6:18 AM  

If my dad was in Federal prison I would lay off accusations of who might be Fed informants.

Blogger Arthur Isaac October 18, 2017 6:20 AM  

Live by the parentheses? Die by the irony.

Anonymous SomeTechAnonFag October 18, 2017 6:26 AM  

Identity politicians are SJWs poorly disguised? WELL IMAGINE MY SHOCK!

Anonymous Steve October 18, 2017 6:27 AM  

Obvious homo Richard Spencer is obviously homo.

Also, nota bene that Twitter has been harrassing right-wingers for a long time. Milo, Godfrey Elfwick and others have been banned for life. Scott Adams has been messed around, just for supporting his President. Nearly everyone else has been attached with shadowbans, temporary suspensions, and random demands to remove content.

Richard Spencer, though, is apparently untouchable on Twitter. Even after his highly publicised Charlottesville disaster/false fag.

"Who does Number 2 work for?"

Anonymous Mister M October 18, 2017 6:31 AM  

I've noticed the same thing. There are small fish on social media who get warned, yet the boogiemen of the 'left', Spencer et al., seem to be able to post everywhere with impunity, and are given a platform in the MSM. You don't need tinfoil to figure this one out.

Blogger Ian Miguel Martin October 18, 2017 6:32 AM  

"And it is increasingly questionable how many of them are even white despite their clownish proclamations about white supremacy."

You'll also notice that a distinct lack of black ancestry is a common trait among the most strident black nationalists. Insecure people of mixed ancestry, overcompensating? Another similarity is a tendency to be gay, something else that might be cloaked by militant racial nationalism.

Anonymous JAMES October 18, 2017 6:36 AM  

Spencer is incompetent not a plant or an informant.

He tried for years to break through with NPI and got only minimal results.

Dancing as the media's pet Nazi gets you lots of attention and draws out the retards in support.

Well done Richard. You're now king of the detectives. Hope you got a good look at David Duke cos that's your future mate.

Blogger FrankNorman October 18, 2017 6:37 AM  

11. Steve October 18, 2017 6:27 AM

Obvious homo Richard Spencer is obviously homo.

Also, nota bene that Twitter has been harrassing right-wingers for a long time. Milo, Godfrey Elfwick and others have been banned for life.


Are you sure?
https://twitter.com/elfwickgodfrey


Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 6:38 AM  

@VD

Off topic, but I've been trying to purchase the Psykosonik albums, is there a way to buy in lossless format?

Could Castalia sell it?

Anonymous PAC October 18, 2017 6:46 AM  

Whereas our dear friend and ally Milo is obviously of the True Right since he's out as both gay and Jewish!

Blogger Elizabeth October 18, 2017 6:48 AM  

Looking Glass wrote:@VD

"The Fake Right is the Pink Swastika 2: Iron Menorah."

As I concluded in the other thread where this came up, it really does seem like Neo-Nazism is simply a gay Jew honeypot operation. Which makes sense. Who would be attracted to a new-aged retread of a failed ideology? Those rebeling against their parents and those attracted to the dark power you get with hating the "Other".

This is maybe an aside, but it should also be noted that no one seems to want to get back to actual Imperialism. You want to go some form of Hard Right that'll really piss people off? Start talking about pre-Crimean War British Imperialism. But that has no attraction to the Reichtard crowd. I wonder why? The Empire was real power.


Libertarian Hans-Hermann Hoppe has extolled the merits of monarchy. That's alternative right in today's equality-obsessed world.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. October 18, 2017 6:50 AM  

When Spencer got punched his reflexive reaction was to fix his hair. Even if he's not gay, all else follows.

You've done a really good job, Vox, of marrying-up Spencer and Co's ultimate uselessness and ahistorical, ex nihilo socio-political vagueries. I was mostly wrong to think that the traditional Left/Right dichotomy was something to hand-wave over.

The issue, however -- and perhaps it's now nothing more than an intellectual exercise -- is how to get certain peoples to recognize when they've been beaten...

That's one for the Sphinx, I suppose.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 6:51 AM  

For a man who hates ambiguity, Vox sure mixes nuggets of truth with distortions in this poast. Spencer is an obvious liability, and the point about the lack of a healthy hetrosexuality is a sound one too. However, Vox uses the equation 'they are wrong, therefore my paleo-libertarian views are the totality of what it means to be right wing.' Paleo-libertarianism is probably as far left as you can go without leaving the right. Vox remains in the right because of his paleo views, not his libertarian ones. While 'left and right' are still legitimate terms, they're evolving in response to globalism. These terms are being redefined - the left from class based economic demands to top down global managerialism, and the right to an emphasis on racial, cultural, and ethnic identity. In service of those identities, the new right may borrow some economic policy which formally fell on the old left. Vox doesn't get that what primarily places an economic policy on the right is whether its designed to serve the national interest. If socialized healthcare seems the best way to promote the wellbeing of the Volk, then the 'socialism' is of the right. You would all do well to read Spengler's distinction between Prussian Socialism and Marxism.

Furthermore, you can't really lump Johnson, Anglin, and Spencer in the same camp. Their views and style differ.

Blogger Phunctor October 18, 2017 6:56 AM  

Xyz 2: p q

Trope, cliche, whatever. In the hands of the SDL it's a seven-strike mace.

DEUS VULT!





Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 18, 2017 7:02 AM  

Lemur wrote:For a man who hates ambiguity, Vox sure mixes nuggets of truth with distortions in this poast. Spencer is an obvious liability, and the point about the lack of a healthy hetrosexuality is a sound one too. However, Vox uses the equation 'they are wrong, therefore my paleo-libertarian views are the totality of what it means to be right wing.' Paleo-libertarianism is probably as far left as you can go without leaving the right. Vox remains in the right because of his paleo views, not his libertarian ones. While 'left and right' are still legitimate terms, they're evolving in response to globalism. These terms are being redefined - the left from class based economic demands to top down global managerialism, and the right to an emphasis on racial, cultural, and ethnic identity. In service of those identities, the new right may borrow some economic policy which formally fell on the old left. Vox doesn't get that what primarily places an economic policy on the right is whether its designed to serve the national interest. If socialized healthcare seems the best way to promote the wellbeing of the Volk, then the 'socialism' is of the right. You would all do well to read Spengler's distinction between Prussian Socialism and Marxism.

Furthermore, you can't really lump Johnson, Anglin, and Spencer in the same camp. Their views and style differ.


You got some serious cog. dis. going on there. Not sure if you just can't understand Vox or you are too prideful to admit you were wrong to have supported those clowns.

Vox has repeatedly stated that he supports an economic system that encourages nationalism. Most of us understand that socialized medicine may increase the power of the government but it doesn't improve the well being of "meine volk".

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 7:04 AM  

Not at all surprising. Most of them probably were plants and false flaggers to start with. After their European brethren sided with the very literal Jewish cleptocracy in Ukraine, the only thing that can surprise me is Alt-Retard suddenly demonstrating any sort of integrity.

Anonymous Steve October 18, 2017 7:06 AM  

FrankNorman - sadly, that's a tribute act.

But Godders lives on, in the smile of every gender-questioning baby, in the simper of male feminist, in the twinkle of every curl in Shaun Kangz's fro.

Blogger ZhukovG October 18, 2017 7:11 AM  

Back during the 'Roman' salute debacle we warned them that their groups were highly susceptible to infiltration. But as time has passed it becomes increasingly clear that their groups were 'controlled opposition' from the start.

White Nationalism is a Globalist Left poison pill.

The Alt-Right is genuine nationalism based upon real nations.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 18, 2017 7:18 AM  

Coming soon:

#MeJew

Blogger Koanic October 18, 2017 7:21 AM  

Hahaha oh man. Now THAT is some effective rhetoric.

Of course, the National Front fag mentions that National Front does NOT tolerate homosexuals, unlike general society and even most of the "church", so kudos to them, eh?

And it's not as if Vox has anything against hanging out with fags.

I like Anglin well enough for what he is. I don't think he's gay, and I don't think he cares much about economics, which naturally means as a pragmatist he's willing to accept a socialist system, like every other developed economy in the world has.

Anyhow, the National Front guy's a pussy. I'm in a similar genetic position, some Ashkenazi maternal blood. Even if I were full Ashkenazi, it'd be no problem. Just don't perpetuate the parasitical race. Breed with something else. Reject the Devil and all his works. People exit "Jewish" identity all the time to submit to Jesus Christ. It's no different in kind than being born to Adam, just a matter of degree.

Ashkenazis are not white and do not belong in Core European countries, any more than weasels belong in golden goose pens.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 7:22 AM  

@basementhomebrewer

I've defended Anglin and Johnson in some respects. Not Spencer.

What you don't get is that economics is ultimately a pragmatic exercise. Sometimes the freemarket is the best option. Other times may require the state, or a combination of both. The only reason the US doesn't have socialized medicine is diversity. European states, until recently, had sufficiently homogeneous, high trust populations for a public health service.

Vox may say he support pro-nationalist economic policy, but in his debate with Anglin and Johnson he repeatedly fell back to IDEOLOGICAL (ie, placing ideas before a specific people) premises.

"To get to the heart of what we're talking about, we need to under-uhh...you know, :smug: Andrew admits that he doesn't understand anything about economics, he admits he doesn't know anything about economics. What he doesn't understand is that economics is not one little aspect of society. Economics is the study of every single calculation of value by every single member of that society. That is how value is ultimately calculated by the insanely complex combination of all those different decisions being taking place at various points in time. And that is why the individual does matter, that is why the individual does factor in - you cannot make those decisions, you cannot simulate those decisions without allowing each of those separate parties to make their decisions. (((Frederick Von Hayek))), actually (((Ludwig von Mises))) originally described this as the impossibility of socialist calculation, because once you try to take all of those individual valuations away, then suddenly you have to replace that information somehow, and the socialist, whether you talk about the Marxian form, whether you're talking about the national socialist form cannot do it." - Vox in the Vox/Anglin debate

By Vox's standards, all the successful European nationalist right wing parties (with the possible exception of UKIP) are left wing because most of their economic prescriptions would probably fall on the left of the mainstream of the Democratic Party in the US.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 7:28 AM  

Btw, let's bore down on this boogy man word 'socialism'.

The root word is social (the adjectival form of society), and the suffix is 'ism' (specifying an ideological idea centred on the root).

Thus, etymologically, the word literally means 'ideas emphasizing society'. That's rather vague. So the sort of 'socialism' you have will depend upon your definition of society. Communist conceptions are only one among men. Hence Spengler was about to speak of "Prussian Socialism".

Blogger Al From Bay Shore October 18, 2017 7:29 AM  

Off-Topic: Disqus is shutting down comments on Return of Kings effective Friday. ROK was accused of being in conflict with Disqus' terms of use.

http://www.returnofkings.com/132206/disqus-is-shutting-down-rok-comments-effective-friday

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 7:34 AM  

*one among many

Anonymous krymneth October 18, 2017 7:35 AM  

Stormpoopers, if you want to convince how NotGay you are, maybe you should act less butthurt.

Blogger ZhukovG October 18, 2017 7:41 AM  

@Lemur: Why do you think this thread is about economics?

In the context of advancing Western Civilization, if a group is not based on Christianity, the European Nations and the Graeco-Roman Legacy, it is not Alt-Right.

The typical European Nationalist party is not Alt-Right per se, but is closer than the typical 'White Nationalist' group.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 7:41 AM  

Ian Miguel Martin wrote:You'll also notice that a distinct lack of black ancestry is a common trait among the most strident black nationalists. Insecure people of mixed ancestry, overcompensating? Another similarity is a tendency to be gay, something else that might be cloaked by militant racial nationalism.
Not only that, it's very profitable and personally beneficial to try and shore up whatever black credentials you have, even if they're mostly invented, in an age in which America pays significant blackgeld.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 7:51 AM  

You're a Fake Indian, claiming to be an American, living in Italy, and you're going to lecture us?

Except I am not a "Fake Indian" and my paternal ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. So, yes, I will lecture you as well as point out that you are a liar.

For a man who hates ambiguity, Vox sure mixes nuggets of truth with distortions in this poast.

I did nothing of the sort. What you call "distortions" are merely rhetoric flourishes that are effective because they points toward the truth, which is that the Fake Right is not of any historical or ideological Right despite their false claims to be the One True and Most Pure Right That Can Never Be Punched.

It is not my intention to conceal or distort, but rather to expose the truth.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 7:53 AM  

I don't consider myself a 'white nationalist' since race is a very thin form of identity. If I defend Anglin in some respects, that doesn't mean I embrace his entire agenda. Seems like a lot of binary thinking goes on around here.

The reason why i broached the subject of economics is because that's the problem with Vox. He can't move beyond the whig left-right paradigm, which is primarily defined in economic terms. See the Vox quote I posted above.

Anonymous Dinesh Goldberg October 18, 2017 7:55 AM  

So who else has Dox Gay accused of being Feds?

- Spencer
- Greg Johnson
- Anglin
- Ricky Vaughn

Am I missing anyone?

Anonymous Ages October 18, 2017 7:57 AM  

The Alt-Right is genuine nationalism based upon real nations.

What nations would those be?

(Don't say American, because there is no such thing as an American nation, even among European Americans. That is essentially civic nationalism; if we're talking about civics I have more in common with many Hispanic and Black fellow-natives in my own German-heritage hometown than I have with white German-Americans in Commiefornia. And I don't suspect that's what we're going for.)

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:01 AM  

See, there's the problem Vox. You gesture vaguely toward this 'historical' and 'ideological' right, but it turns out its just an edgy classical liberalism. Nationalism supersedes and redefines the left-right dichotomy.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 8:07 AM  

So who else has Dox Gay accused of being Feds?

I don't know who Dox Gay is, but I have never accused anyone of being a Fed.

The reason why i broached the subject of economics is because that's the problem with Vox. He can't move beyond the whig left-right paradigm, which is primarily defined in economic terms.

Economics underlies ALL human activity. You see my position as a "problem" because you have no understanding whatsoever of how your very concept of race is based on economics.

See, you don't even know what economics is.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 8:09 AM  

Nationalism supersedes and redefines the left-right dichotomy.

If you truly believe that, then stop calling yourself "right-wing" or "alternative right". You are not. You are literally nothing on that spectrum.

Which means you are Fake Right due to your false claims.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:10 AM  

@Ages

'White' is a manufactured identity imposed upon European Americans after civil rights in opposition to 'blackness'. It's a product of deracination and mass society. If we re-rooted people in real communities, you would see increasing divergence between hispanics/blacks and particular groups of whites. Mass society imposes a uniformity on people who, left to form spiritual-organic communities, would naturally self-segregate.

Anonymous aaaturkey October 18, 2017 8:10 AM  

Richard "B" Spencer is a prat. Mrs Spencer is much more reasonable, it's hard to see how they're together.

Anonymous Som Yung Guy October 18, 2017 8:13 AM  

That alt-retard who posts under the name “Koaniac” is obviously homo and FBI. You can tell them by their reflexive anti-semitism and over-the-top hatred of women. Heartiste is in same boat.

Anonymous Athor Pel October 18, 2017 8:14 AM  

"36. Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 7:53 AM
...
The reason why i broached the subject of economics is because that's the problem with Vox. He can't move beyond the whig left-right paradigm, which is primarily defined in economic terms. See the Vox quote I posted above.
"


You must be new.

Do better.

Do more research.

You got no idea what you are talking about.

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 8:16 AM  

@11. Steve
Richard Spencer, though, is apparently untouchable on Twitter.

To be fair, I recall Spencer getting kicked off Twitter for a little bit. But then he was let back on.

Anonymous Hilaire Belloc October 18, 2017 8:16 AM  

“Economics underlies ALL human activity. “

This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.
This is right-wing and traditionalist.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:21 AM  

See, your problem, Vox in Sox, is that you are obsessed with what is 'left' and 'right' inside the Anglo-whig cell of political philosophy. A combination of world-historic processes and explanatory exhaustion has led to migration from that tiny little 'right wing' ghetto to the broader fractal of political ideas. Here, various dissident right factions have asked the question 'what does it mean to be right wing in the supra-fractal context?' There are a number of different answers, but all of them are far more interesting than those proffered by increasingly outmoded Gen X nerds angrily yelling about (((Von Mises))).

Blogger Joshua_D October 18, 2017 8:21 AM  

Ages wrote:The Alt-Right is genuine nationalism based upon real nations.

What nations would those be?

(Don't say American, because there is no such thing as an American nation, even among European Americans.


You obviously have to go back.

Sincerely, and American

Anonymous Dark Lord Larper October 18, 2017 8:22 AM  

“Economics underlies ALL human activity. “

Karl Marx was right-wing?

Anonymous Steve October 18, 2017 8:23 AM  

Student in Blue - OK, but that still doesn't explain why Richard Spencer likes dancing with men.

Blogger ZhukovG October 18, 2017 8:24 AM  

@Ages: There is an American Nation. It is the idea of White Nationalism that is false. The problem, and one important reason we are at a severe disadvantage in comparison to Europe, is that the definition has been muddied by Civic Nationalism and rampant legal immigration over the years.

The American Nation used to be narrowly defined as those Americans of British Ancestry. The challenge before us now is to redefine what the 'American Identity' is. This may prove impossible in the short term and thus the Union will likely divide into various American Nations.

However in the longer term, I suspect an American National Identity based around descendants of Northern Europeans will coalesce. I also suspect that this group will eventually recreate the American Union, from sea to shining sea, by either peaceful or aggressive ethnic cleansing.

Again, Europe is in a much better position than we are.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:24 AM  

Pel it doesn't mean Vox doesn't address other issues (sometimes quite accurately). But when push comes to shove, he will return to assertions like those I quoted above as DEFINING prescriptions of what it means to be right wing. In other words, they are fundamental to his worldview.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 8:27 AM  

@47 Hilaire Belloc

No, it doesn't, unless you've turned "economics" into a tautology.

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 8:31 AM  

@Lemur

If Vox is obsessed with anything via left-right, it'd be him obsessed with people claiming to be right-wing who ARE NOT right-wing, and are thus liars.

And would you really want to be associated with people who are either A) too stupid to understand the difference, B) too lazy to bother learning (yet are somehow not lazy enough to fight the good fight!) or C) are lying about it?

I know I wouldn't. Via personal experience those aren't people who accomplish a damn thing.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 8:31 AM  

@52 ZhukovG

"American" as a genetic identity is Anglo-German at this point, with a sprinkle of Scots-Irish and some enclaves of specific immigration.

I blame the German part for getting us involved in Empire building. Well, at least the 2nd & 3rd generation cohorts. The German Immigrants were mostly running away from the Imperialists, but that reversion to the mean in the 2nd generation caught up. Which, in a deeply ironic twist, the USA would help end the first two times. It doesn't look like we're removing the EU anytime soon, so Germany appears to have won round 3.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 8:34 AM  

See, your problem, Vox in Sox, is that you are obsessed with what is 'left' and 'right' inside the Anglo-whig cell of political philosophy. A combination of world-historic processes and explanatory exhaustion has led to migration from that tiny little 'right wing' ghetto to the broader fractal of political ideas. Here, various dissident right factions have asked the question 'what does it mean to be right wing in the supra-fractal context?' There are a number of different answers, but all of them are far more interesting than those proffered by increasingly outmoded Gen X nerds angrily yelling about (((Von Mises))).

You're completely wrong. None of them have any new ideas whatsoever. None of them are even remotely coherent and none of them are asking the question you claim they are asking. In fact, they haven't even ATTEMPTED to address those things, by their own admission.

There are no manifestos to which you can point. There are no works of political philosophy. None of them are doing the necessary intellectual work because none of them are sufficiently intelligent, with the possible exception of Z-Man.

The best they've got is Greg Johnson's paeans to pre-Western homosexual paganism and Andrew Anglin's tactical guide to Fake Nazi clowning for the media.

There is a reason I refer to your collective "movement" as Alt-Retard; it is because you guys simply are not very intelligent. You haven't even done the most basic foundational work required, thinking that you're going to ride a single tactic to ultimate victory.

Meanwhile, real nationalists are rising everywhere, some of them into government already, and none of them want anything to do with you. You are totally irrelevant, as will become increasingly obvious as more genuine nationalists, more genuine right-wingers, are elected.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 8:35 AM  

Ages wrote:What nations would those be?

(Don't say American, because there is no such thing as an American nation, even among European Americans. That is essentially civic nationalism; if we're talking about civics I have more in common with many Hispanic and Black fellow-natives in my own German-heritage hometown than I have with white German-Americans in Commiefornia. And I don't suspect that's what we're going for.)

If you believe that, then that's because you aren't one. You have to go back.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 8:38 AM  

@28 Lemur

https://infogalactic.com/info/Christian_democracy

You really don't understand European politics very well, I see. CD is a pretty dominant fall-back ideological alignment right now because it heavily splits the difference. Economically, the Nationalist movements in most of Europe will lean to the Left, though that'll change with time.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 8:38 AM  

Karl Marx was right-wing?

Your logic is incorrect. Like Lemur, you don't understand what economics is.

Even if the nation is the highest value, then obviously the study of values is relevant to it.

I'm not talking about enlarging a statistical measure, as these idiots obviously seem to think. They're so stupid that they try to criticize me without even having read my substantive works. They want to try to get by with a few Tweets and blog posts.

Irrelevant and idiotic. It's like trying to criticize Fukuyama on the basis of his Facebook posts.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:38 AM  

If there was an American Nation, it was a northern European affair. Over time, these people lost contact with their heritage and became defined by the brands they brought, the parties they voted for, and their superficial tastes (see Stuff White People Like). 'White' American identity now functions more as an anti-identity. It's the vacuum left after managerialism, an ironic mode of relating to the world, and mega ultra capitalism have raped your semantic life.

Nationalism is more than just kicking out spics, nigs, yids, and kebabs. It's more than the prescription 'similar people should live within a defined space.' It's about a different way of being that prioritizes rootedness, community, and loyalty.

Anonymous Evstratios October 18, 2017 8:39 AM  

Lemur

Not doing a good job of proving you don't get your shit pushed in, unfortunately. Nothing you have presented is in disagreement with your own portrayal of vox's position. Which is a midwit representation obviously but I wonder if these simple concepts were in the shape of a fat dick, would you still fail to grasp it?

Secret king some more but keep the circle jerks in the bathrooms at Zippers, genius.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 8:42 AM  

Looking Glass wrote:"American" as a genetic identity is Anglo-German at this point, with a sprinkle of Scots-Irish and some enclaves of specific immigration.
The original settlement (and by original I mean prior to the Revolutionary War, at least) had more Scots-Irish and other Borderer settlement to it than it did German, but that's a bit of a nitpick. The Scots-Irish and Borderer descendants are the primary settlers of Appalachia, and when surveyed, are the most likely to present their ethnicity as American without reference to the Old Country. German-Americans, even after many generations, tend to be more aware of their background as Germans than the Scots-Irish and other Borderers, who have mostly subsumed their prior identity into a new identity that's American and country/redneck, or what-have-you.
Looking Glass wrote:I blame the German part for getting us involved in Empire building. Well, at least the 2nd & 3rd generation cohorts. The German Immigrants were mostly running away from the Imperialists, but that reversion to the mean in the 2nd generation caught up. Which, in a deeply ironic twist, the USA would help end the first two times. It doesn't look like we're removing the EU anytime soon, so Germany appears to have won round 3.
Why? The British were more imperialist historically than the Germans, and the Imperialization of America happened almost immediately in the wake of Lincoln's War when the iconically British Puritans (and their New England descendants) conquered the rest of the country, conquered the rest of the continent, made war on the rest of the Injuns, made war on the Spaniards in the Caribbean, in Mexico, in the Philippines, etc.

That wasn't the German Americans. They were the Midlanders, who just went along to get along, as is their wont. It was the British Puritans who created American Imperialism.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 18, 2017 8:47 AM  

Dicky Spencer's Dance Party

Most awesome Kinetic game ever!

I can picture it in my mind clearly. Spencer and two background dancers are shaking it to Hologram Girl. You have to try and match their movements.

Blogger ZhukovG October 18, 2017 8:48 AM  

@Looking Glass: I agree that the Anglo/Celtic-German/Nordic(?) genetic groups will likely become the American Identity. But Nations are more often born of struggle, and we have had things too easy for too long, such that many have swallowed the Civic Nationalist Kool-Aid.

Our American Identity needs resuscitation.

Blogger 1337kestrel October 18, 2017 8:49 AM  

Anyone who thinks socialism is a pragmatic solution is too stupid to read here, much less comment.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:49 AM  

Again, Vox, Johnson's embrace of faggotry or Spencer's retarded antics don't make you the winner by default. Your 16 points are hardly enlightening either.

The claim is not that economics have become irrelevant or that economic values don't exist. It's that what is material for our purposes is the *end* to which they are applied. In the nationalist way of thinking, they are no longer an end in themselves; thus we are free to adopt a far more pragmatic approach based on the situation we find ourselves in.

Many of these nationalists to whom you refer, as I pointed out above, follow economic policy that is too the left of the democratic party. Marie Le Pen would increase, not diminish state intervention in the French economy relative to both her socialist and Republican opponents.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 18, 2017 8:49 AM  


"Vox in Sox"
You might want to relook that retarded Dr. Seuss comment and delete it.

Blogger JACIII October 18, 2017 8:54 AM  

Lemur wrote:See, your problem, Vox in Sox, is that you are obsessed with what is 'left' and 'right' inside the Anglo-whig cell of political philosophy. A combination of world-historic processes and explanatory exhaustion has led to migration from that tiny little 'right wing' ghetto to the broader fractal of political ideas. Here, various dissident right factions have asked the question 'what does it mean to be right wing in the supra-fractal context?' There are a number of different answers, but all of them are far more interesting than those proffered by increasingly outmoded Gen X nerds angrily yelling about (((Von Mises))).

This is why I say arguing with Alt-Retard is exactly like arguing with LaKeisha Kang from the ghetto. No idea what she's talking about, but she heard some words dis one time....

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:54 AM  

@Looking Glass.

I'm well aware of Christian Democracy. Why don't you read some French New Rightists to see what they think about whig market rightism? The idea continental Europe will ever adopt libertarian ideals within a nationalist context or outside of it is absurd.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 8:55 AM  

Again, Vox, Johnson's embrace of faggotry or Spencer's retarded antics don't make you the winner by default. Your 16 points are hardly enlightening either.

Actually, that's precisely what it does. You can't oppose something with nothing. Moreover, the 16 Points were NEVER intended to be definitive, merely a starting point.

Unfortunately, everyone else proved too stupid to be able to contribute anything at all. Like you, all they can do is bitch and cry to no avail.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 8:55 AM  

shut up matthew

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 8:57 AM  

The claim is not that economics have become irrelevant or that economic values don't exist. It's that what is material for our purposes is the *end* to which they are applied. In the nationalist way of thinking, they are no longer an end in themselves; thus we are free to adopt a far more pragmatic approach based on the situation we find ourselves in.

Obviously. That is utterly and absolutely obvious. We all know that. But that doesn't change the fact that the ideological Left and the ideological Right absolutely exist and absolutely remain relevant today.

You are so stupid that you don't understand that the points you are trying to make are things that we already know and don't even consider worth discussing. You observably have no idea how far over your head you find yourself here.

Anonymous Rocklea October 18, 2017 8:58 AM  

"Dicky Spencer's Dance Party

Most awesome Kinetic game ever!

I can picture it in my mind clearly. Spencer and two background dancers are shaking it to Hologram Girl. You have to try and match their movements."

Stop trying to break Nintendo.

Anonymous Kal-El October 18, 2017 8:58 AM  

Lemur = Alt-Reichtard

He needs to educate himself. I'd suggest books by Vox Day, Jonah Goldberg and Dinesh D'Souza.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 9:00 AM  

What have you contributed Vox, in a positive, unique sense in the realm of political ideas? I've followed your blog for a while, listened to your debates, watched some 'darkstreams' and interviews; and I've never heard anything other people haven't covered...

Anonymous karsten October 18, 2017 9:01 AM  

"Your logic is incorrect. Like Lemur, you don't understand what economics is.

Even if the nation is the highest value, then obviously the study of values is relevant to it."


Yes, in my understanding of a genuine "Right," then the nation, racially and ethnically defined, certainly is the highest value.

But unless I'm misreading Vox in the second sentence above, he is claiming that economics is "the study of values," and thus inevitably encompasses non-material and immaterial things as well as material things (unless the word "values" is also being subjected to another different-than-usual definition).

If Vox wishes to define economics that way, as "the study of values," that's a choice, but it's rather not the general definition of economics, which is how I take the term, and which, per Oxford, is:

"1. often treated as singular The branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth.

2. The condition of a region or group as regards material prosperity."


"Wealth" (defined materially). "Material prosperity." That is certainly how I understand the term economics, and that is indeed a secondary and outmoded vector according to which to build any left/right binary. The war today is between polarities of culture and identity, in the consideration of which material matters are only a secondary subset.

This appears to be first and foremost a semantic dispute.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 9:06 AM  

In that case, Vox, if we are in such close agreement on this 'obvious' thing, why don't you hash out for us a few sentences what the 'ideological right' is?

Because if you do in fact accept what you quoted of me above, I'm puzzled why you insist upon putting Anglin and Johsnon on the left for the reasons you laid out in your debates with them.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums October 18, 2017 9:15 AM  

karsten wrote:If Vox wishes to define economics that way, as "the study of values," that's a choice, but it's rather not the general definition of economics, which is how I take the term, and which, per Oxford, is:

"1. often treated as singular The branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth.

2. The condition of a region or group as regards material prosperity."


Distinction without a difference.
Wealth can be considered a subset of "value" or a flat-out synonym. See: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/wealth

karsten wrote:"Wealth" (defined materially). "Material prosperity." That is certainly how I understand the term economics,

I appreciate your honesty in admitting your archaic understanding of "economics". But we're in the 21st century and there's a reason why the Nobel Prize in Economics was rewarded to a psychologist.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 9:16 AM  

@Karsten

Here's a direct quote from Vox in his Anglin debate:

"To get to the heart of what we're talking about, we need to under-uhh...you know, Andrew admits that he doesn't understand anything about economics, he admits he doesn't know anything about economics. What he doesn't understand is that economics is not one little aspect of society. Economics is the study of every single calculation of value by every single member of that society. That is how value is ultimately calculated by the insanely complex combination of all those different decisions being taking place at various points in time. And that is why the individual does matter, that is why the individual does factor in - you cannot make those decisions, you cannot simulate those decisions without allowing each of those separate parties to make their decisions. (((Frederick Von Hayek))), actually (((Ludwig von Mises))) originally described this as the impossibility of socialist calculation, because once you try to take all of those individual valuations away, then suddenly you have to replace that information somehow, and the socialist, whether you talk about the Marxian form, whether you're talking about the national socialist form cannot do it."

Now I'm not a big brain nigga like Vox, but I would make the following observations on this paragraph.

1. A commitment to methodological individualism
2. A commitment to the interpretation of human behavour through the lens of the broadly laissez faire economic schools
3. The denial a different model of human behavour could inform policy within a right wing context.

This was one of the major problem Vox had with Anglin, so it looks like Vox still insists upon colouring nationalism exclusively with these libertarian theories.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 18, 2017 9:17 AM  

@@70 Lemur

Did I mention libertarian ideals with regard to economics? When did "libertarian ideals" become Right-wing? Why are you assuming new, Nationalist focused economic approaches aren't being developed?

And how hard is it not to deflect when I poked a hole in your balloon? A lot of the European political parties of the "Right" are quite critical to outright rejecting "Anglo-Saxon capitalism". This doesn't inherently make the economics Left-wing, but in practice, they all are mostly a center-Left alignment because their populations like a lot of those aspects. (Which you can do in an ethnostate.)

Anonymous Rocklea October 18, 2017 9:19 AM  

"Because if you do in fact accept what you quoted of me above, I'm puzzled why you insist upon putting Anglin and Johsnon on the left for the reasons you laid out in your debates with them."

Because "Nazis Suck", in more ways than one, while true, is not an argument.

Anonymous CarpeOro October 18, 2017 9:24 AM  

Can't same I'm shocked about a self-proclaimed neo-nazi coming out. He is only trying to emulate the original NSDAP (the Night of the Long Knives got rid of the most prominent homosexual, Rohm, but not all of them). While Rohm was a bit more left than Hitler, the big issue was him as a threat to Hitler's control and not his being to far left.

Anonymous Evstratios October 18, 2017 9:25 AM  

Weird how a system concerning itself with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth must depend on the 'study of values' to exist in the first place. It's not a choice to describe economics in this way. It is completely self evident outside of aspbergers.

Lemur, it's not a sign of intellectual rigour to use terms like methodological individualism. The entirety of human behaviour is economic. It's not surprising you haven't internalized the inherent supra-fractality of this concept. I'm sure all your teachers told you you were brilliant. Are you not embarrassed yet?

Blogger Robert Jones October 18, 2017 9:26 AM  

You willingly allow yourself to be associated with Milo, an over the top flaming queer. What does that say about you?

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 18, 2017 9:27 AM  


"Vox in Sox"
You might want to relook that retarded Dr. Seuss comment and delete it.

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 9:32 AM  

@81 Looking Glass

Seems they became right wing when Chief Tonto endorsed them.

Those European parties aren't promoting centre left policies because the coordinating principle of nationalism is supervening. Again, its not the substance of the policies that is relevant, but the end. Which you seem to acknowledge is a half arsed way.

Blogger pnq8787 October 18, 2017 9:35 AM  

Two points about this.

First, this gay, part-Jewish dude coming out and turning on his former nationalists is embarrassing, that's true. However, it doesn't actually mean much, it's just embarrassing. The point is the ideas. Just because some dude with compromised identity was in a given movement doesn't mean that individuals really do have that identity and really are a part of the movement. Which is to say that there are still many people in the BNP who really are British and really want to protect their nation. Believing that this is a substantial strike against the BNP or the nationalist movement is buing into the Jewstream media's stupid trick. The whole thing here is kinda dumb, and if I may say so seems more "rhetorical" than "dialectical" to me.


My second point would be that if the right represents liberty and individualism and the left represents socialism then nationalists by their nature must be leftests. Now that is an extreme statement because of course you can have gradations of individualism and collectivism, but the point is nationalism is by it's nature at least partly collectivist. Nationalism demands a belief in the idea of a group's interests. Nationalism means that people are not just atomized idividual economic units. (As an aside, have you noticed that up until Trump, presidential debate stuck to the dry, boring, and ultimately unimportant issue of taxes and other economic BS. Of course they did, those issues are safe.) We are part of a group of people who have evolved over time in particular physical and social environments to have particular temperments and other characterists. We love our families and our nation, the people who look and act like us. The people we understand and know how they think and act and what they value based on how they look. The individualist has no collectivist values and will sell out the nation for his own personal interest. That type of person is actually weak. That type of person is easy to control by the gobalists who would destroy every beautiful culture on earth and turn the world into a soulless shopping mall/factory if they had their way.


In short, stop believing the hype. The economic system may change but the nation lives on if we still believe in it and are willing to fight for it. I still don't get why people are so caught up on the right/left, individualism/collectivism divide. You know Ayn Rand was a Jew right? Do you really think she had the best interests of our race's nations in her heart?

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 9:37 AM  

"The entirety of human behaviour is economic."

Spoken like a true sperg.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 9:39 AM  

Wuzzums Fuzzums wrote:I appreciate your honesty in admitting your archaic understanding of "economics". But we're in the 21st century and there's a reason why the Nobel Prize in Economics was rewarded to a psychologist.
Anyone who's understanding of economics is limited to a sentence fragment pulled from a dictionary should just keep his damn mouth shut about economics.

Anyone who's done even a cursory study of actual economics knows that the whole point of the discipline is to try and construct models to explain human behavior.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 9:41 AM  

Robert Jones wrote:You willingly allow yourself to be associated with Milo, an over the top flaming queer. What does that say about you?
You think that's significant in any way whatsoever. What does that say about you?

Anonymous Patron October 18, 2017 9:45 AM  

pnq8787 wrote:Two points about this.

My second point would be that if the right represents liberty and individualism and the left represents socialism then nationalists by their nature must be leftests. Now that is an extreme statement because of course you can have gradations of individualism and collectivism, but the point is nationalism is by it's nature at least partly collectivist. Nationalism demands a belief in the idea of a group's interests. Nationalism means that people are not just atomized idividual economic units.



True. However, I would say that the Alt-Right (a) recognises reality, which is that we're a tribal species by nature, rather than trying to force a Platonic ideal down everyone's throats. "Okay, we're a tribal species, but maybe we can try to get our individual liberty stuff working *within* the nation" basically.

Blogger Robert Jones October 18, 2017 9:45 AM  

That if being a gay Jew disqualifies you from being right wing why they hell are you hanging out with him?

Blogger Lemur October 18, 2017 9:45 AM  

@88 pnq8787

great post. 'right' and 'left' are relative terms and are thus subject to redefinition dependent upon context. Your post shows how the 'right' has evolved in the Anglo-whig environment in the age of Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys7iCmJqHFI

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. October 18, 2017 9:49 AM  

Even if the resurgence of the True Church is concomitant with the rising tide of Nationalism, we're all going to have to learn to live with a bit of 'Socialism'.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 9:49 AM  

If Vox wishes to define economics that way, as "the study of values," that's a choice, but it's rather not the general definition of economics, which is how I take the term.

No one cares how you take it. Economists have understood that economics is about the study of values since ancient Greece. Again, I point out that you guys are not even remotely qualified to take part in these discussions.

This was one of the major problem Vox had with Anglin, so it looks like Vox still insists upon colouring nationalism exclusively with these libertarian theories.

I'm not doing anything of the kind. You simply don't understand what you're talking about. As numerous people have pointed out to you.

I'm puzzled why you insist upon putting Anglin and Johsnon on the left for the reasons you laid out in your debates with them."

Because they are observably of the Left in the majority of the positions and policies they espouse. Furthermore, you are utterly foolish to take them at their word about nationalism anyhow, given that they are both of overtly false character.

At the core, the Right is about God and Truth and the Left is about Man and Falsehood. Even at that most basic level, both Anglin and Spencer are creatures of the Left.

Or in traditional terms of God, King, and Country, how many of those do Richard Spencer, atheist EU superstate advocate, espouse?

See, no reference to libertarianism or methodological individualism required.

You are FAR too short for this ride.

Anonymous Evstratios October 18, 2017 9:51 AM  

No, Vox will not have sex with you

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 9:52 AM  

Spoken like a true sperg.

No. Spoken like someone who, unlike you, knows whereof he speaks. You are an embarrassment to your own cause, Lemur, because you don't even bother to learn what you are attempting to criticize.

Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Lemur. You can look them up.

Anonymous Rocklea October 18, 2017 10:03 AM  

B' but, apes don't read philosophy.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 18, 2017 10:03 AM  

Lemur wrote:Btw, let's bore down on this boogy man word 'socialism'.

The root word is social (the adjectival form of society), and the suffix is 'ism' (specifying an ideological idea centred on the root).

Thus, etymologically, the word literally means 'ideas emphasizing society'. That's rather vague. So the sort of 'socialism' you have will depend upon your definition of society. Communist conceptions are only one among men. Hence Spengler was about to speak of "Prussian Socialism".


You really are too short for this ride. Spencer/Johnson/Anglin etc. all rail against globalists but don't understand their motivations, what allows them to assume power and what aids them in maintaining their power.

Their ideology is post-modernism which is all about the pursuit of power. A large state will attract people pre-disposed to that ideology. The reason they want Globalism is because they want more power.

In some, very heterogeneous and very Christian societies you may be able to pull off limited socialism for a period of time without corruption creeping in. It would require large amounts of societal policing against immoral power seeking people not truly devoted to Christ. When this situation meets the realities of the world it becomes as unworkable as the full free-market capitalism of the libertarians.

Vox, and most of his fans understand that reality corrupts almost every theory. We have the humility to identify what doesn't work even if it is a position we formerly held. We are also comfortable admitting we are not sure what the perfect system might be.

Anonymous Zapp Brannigan October 18, 2017 10:04 AM  

Yes, they do. They just don't understand it.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 18, 2017 10:05 AM  

VD: "They're so stupid that they try to criticize me without even having read my substantive works. They want to try to get by with a few Tweets and blog posts."

Lemur: "I've followed your blog for a while, listened to your debates, watched some 'darkstreams' and interviews; and I've never heard anything other people haven't covered..."

That's not how you spell "I'm stupid," Lemur.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 10:06 AM  

Robert Jones wrote:That if being a gay Jew disqualifies you from being right wing why they hell are you hanging out with him?
Are you sure you're commenting on the right article? For that matter; on the right site? I'm used to reading comments sometimes that miss the point, but it's not that often that we see such a complete and utter non sequitur.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 10:16 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:That's not how you spell "I'm stupid," Lemur.
Heh. Kinda is. It's just a long-winded way of saying it that could use a good editor.

Blogger Doom October 18, 2017 10:18 AM  

Yeah, had to laugh. There was no change of heart, either. Probably got caught. I thought about passing this on, figured if you weren't too busy you would get to it, and, like that... I've got excellent gaydar, works for all sorts. These people simply aren't that generally known, seen. And to be honest I really don't go looking. Groups like these are obvious. Lots of freaks made the real Nazi A-list, starting at the, uhrm, top if you want to lie about that, in a sense.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 18, 2017 10:19 AM  

I don't know why they'd bother denying it. Anyone can find out for himself, just by visiting the sites they frequent. You won't need all afternoon to start getting that, "Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?" feeling.

That doesn't mean they're all homosexual, but it seems like their other devotions almost force them to be open to that in a certain way.

Blogger JohnofAustria October 18, 2017 10:29 AM  

I'm alt-right (I was NS before Spencer got big) and am married with kids, and a vet. You're letting your desire to confirm your hypothesis lead you again, Vox.

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 10:39 AM  

I'm alt-right (I was NS before Spencer got big) and am married with kids, and a vet. You're letting your desire to confirm your hypothesis lead you again, Vox.

Not in the slightest. I didn't make up that news. But I'm not surprised by it either.

Blogger tuberman October 18, 2017 10:42 AM  

basementhomebrewer wrote:Lemur wrote:Btw, let's bore down on this boogy man word 'socialism'.

The root word is social (the adjectival form of society), and the suffix is 'ism' (specifying an ideological idea centred on the root).

Thus, etymologically, the word literally means 'ideas emphasizing society'. That's rather vague. So the sort of 'socialism' you have will depend upon your definition of society. Communist conceptions are only one among men. Hence Spengler was about to speak of "Prussian Socialism".


You really are too short for this ride. Spencer/Johnson/Anglin etc. all rail against globalists but don't understand their motivations, what allows them to assume power and what aids them in maintaining their power.

Their ideology is post-modernism which is all about the pursuit of power. A large state will attract people pre-disposed to that ideology. The reason they want Globalism is because they want more power.

In some, very heterogeneous and very Christian societies you may be able to pull off limited socialism for a period of time without corruption creeping in. It would require large amounts of societal policing against immoral power seeking people not truly devoted to Christ. When this situation meets the realities of the world it becomes as unworkable as the full free-market capitalism of the libertarians.

Vox, and most of his fans understand that reality corrupts almost every theory. We have the humility to identify what doesn't work even if it is a position we formerly held. We are also comfortable admitting we are not sure what the perfect system might be.


There's a very easy check on people:
1) Either they are focused on power or "moving up"
2) Or their main focus is on getting something positive done. This obviously has to be from a sane worldview, not a checklist or a narrative.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope October 18, 2017 10:43 AM  

There are some serious and substantive debates on economics on this blog, if you're willing to do a little research and look back through the archives.

Reading the blog for the past 15 months ain't going to get you that information.

Also, we are running into the problem, for the 10,002 time, of someone who is above average intelligence and used to being near the top of their elementary school class most of their lives, running into people who are in the top 0.5% and above intelligence.

Seriously, unless your IQ is measured above 135, you are not tall enough for this ride. Even 140 may not be tall enough.

Anonymous fop October 18, 2017 10:46 AM  

Those NAZI LARP get-togethers must be totally cray-cray!!

The floors in their double-wide trailer must look like a Jackson Pollock.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 10:47 AM  

JohnofAustria wrote:I'm alt-right (I was NS before Spencer got big) and am married with kids, and a vet. You're letting your desire to confirm your hypothesis lead you again, Vox.
You can't be right because of meeeeeEEEEE!

Blogger tuberman October 18, 2017 10:50 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:I don't know why they'd bother denying it. Anyone can find out for himself, just by visiting the sites they frequent. You won't need all afternoon to start getting that, "Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?" feeling.

That doesn't mean they're all homosexual, but it seems like their other devotions almost force them to be open to that in a certain way.


I spent some time on Radix in 2015 through early 2016, and about half the commenters there struck me as immature boys or 20-somethings. I was so amused by their take on women, that I started making fun of the sexual status (not suggesting they were homo, just still boys), and that did not go over well.

Blogger tuberman October 18, 2017 10:58 AM  

Desdichado wrote:JohnofAustria wrote:I'm alt-right (I was NS before Spencer got big) and am married with kids, and a vet. You're letting your desire to confirm your hypothesis lead you again, Vox.

You can't be right because of meeeeeEEEEE!


Yeah, it's that micro vs. Macro thing again.

Anonymous BBGKB October 18, 2017 11:11 AM  

While a Nazi in NYC could make good money letting gay jews lick his boots I am pretty sure the Brit guy in question was a saboteur possibly paid by Israel. Much like the local organizer for the Unite the Right Rally, Jason Kessler- jew Obama/Clinton supporter+ former CNN employee

"Hello fellow (((straight))) people "Hello fellow (((straight white))) people..."

41 that's the problem with Vox. He can't move beyond the whig left-right paradigm, which is primarily defined in economic terms

What you don't understand is that K selected people like high quality long lasting goods. You think cheap stuff from low trust societies is economics instead of arbitrage of low quality goods from low trust cultures (((sold))) in high trust markets

Related: Gay take on Gay jew leaves British National Front after sabotaging for decades
http://www.towleroad.com/2017/10/kevin-wilshaw/

Blogger RobertT October 18, 2017 11:14 AM  

Holy cow. 114 comments. For what it's worth, here' my take. Fake was written all over him from the very beginning. He was just interested in power, fame & fortune. And being a headline speaker. True love is having an angel like Bannon's angel. Somewhere he read there is no such thing as bad press. So that's where he went. His hesitancy about your questions is because he has no moral compass to guide him.

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 11:21 AM  

@110. Revelation Means Hope
Seriously, unless your IQ is measured above 135, you are not tall enough for this ride. Even 140 may not be tall enough.

I'm not above 135, but I eventually pieced the puzzle together after quite a while and a good dose of humility. Text format helps quite a bit, as you can re-read what exactly what was said (specific words are used by smarter people for a reason) and then take extra time to reflect on it and how it could be true.

Verbal communications don't quite give you that grace period to think it over.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 11:22 AM  

Economics: The study of scarce resources in a given environemnt.

Please stop smoking the fart bong. Its very poor economic policy if you actually want to stop White genocide.

Follow up question. Does my .01 % Roman ancesstry qualify me as a Roman or an Italian? Would anyone take me seriously if I claimed to be Roman?

(Cutting throught fart bong haze) Yes of course I understand the legacy of Rome to be an integral part of my identity. That doesn't mean I get to run around looking like I do claiming to be Roman without being legitimately accused of LARPing

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 11:31 AM  

Economics is the study of values because every single thing a human does affects the economy.

This is not hard to grasp when you've taken half a look at what possibly causes the stock market to go up and down. Once you realize that 99% of the time it's human feelings, then gee whiz willikers if you want to study how people buy and sell stuff then you need to look at how people make decisions, which is another term for what they find valuable aka their values.

Anonymous bw October 18, 2017 11:33 AM  

of being gay and being Jewish. It was, of course, because they were projecting

Possible much simpler explanation to all of these tools: it rhymes with "fed" or "espy el see" or some such network.
"To control the opposition, lead it" para Lenin etal

95. I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. October 18, 2017 9:49 AM
we're all going to have to learn to live with a bit of 'Socialism'


We've had it for a Century. (Central Bank, Prog Income Tax, Schooling, etc TheOther7).

Anonymous Clouseau October 18, 2017 11:36 AM  

I never heard of the guy. Maybe he's "well known" in Britain?

Blogger Martin October 18, 2017 11:40 AM  

Many in the alt right seem to be empire minded fascists. Like, they want to continue the US empire. But exchange, well, whatever it is based on, with race? I think they are pretty straightforward about this. Since culture is so dominant, since the media really only cares about culture, they are labelled "right". Even thought they are economically to the left, many of them.

Im not sure I agree they are "fake". Fascism is fascism.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 18, 2017 11:42 AM  

tuberman wrote:There's a very easy check on people:

1) Either they are focused on power or "moving up"

2) Or their main focus is on getting something positive done. This obviously has to be from a sane worldview, not a checklist or a narrative.



Not always so easy. SJWs infiltrate environments hostile to them by being the most helpful person on the team. The smart ones will conceal their true motivations until they are handed enough power to start doing real damage. The enemy is not called the father of lies for no reason.

Blogger Ivaneus October 18, 2017 11:45 AM  

Facing Facts,

In other words you look at a fight between poo-flinging monkey and a hungry crocodile and come to the conclusion that the monkey has won because the monkey's shit is on the croc's head. Never mind the blood in the water and the fact that the monkey is in his jaws.

Truly you are on a wholly different level as a scholar!

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 11:47 AM  

Go away, "Facing Facts". We know Anglin's style guide.

Blogger Antony October 18, 2017 11:49 AM  

A bit ot, but some people here may be interested - Hans-Hermann Hoppe on Libertarianism and the Alt Right ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TICdCM4j7x8

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 11:55 AM  

SEMANTIC!? THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!? YOU ACTUALLY EXPECT VOX TO DEFINE HIS TERMS!? DONT YOU KNOW HE'S SMARTER THAN THAT AND WE ARE ALL STUPID!? HE TELLS US THIS ALL THE TIME!

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 18, 2017 11:59 AM  

@121 Martin
Many in the alt right seem to be empire minded fascists.

Too short for the ride. No refunds at the ticket office either.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 12:05 PM  

Martin wrote:Im not sure I agree they are "fake". Fascism is fascism.
Which is exactly why they are fake. By definition, even. What is so hard here, other than your emotional attachment to a debunked idea?

Blogger Phelps October 18, 2017 12:08 PM  

You don't have to be gay and jewish to be a nazi. You just have to be gay and jewish to have any INFLUENCE in the nazis.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 12:11 PM  

Lets get real. It's personal animosity between the Vox clique and the TRS clique. This is more or less how apes behave, hairless or otherwise. Yea there is some ideological differences but if we're honest these differences arise within the cliques. Inb4 more variation within than between.

Most of this ideological fappery is just a cover for that. Like Vox willfully not understanding what National Socialism is. That's a great way to proclaim the Anglin clique has no right to exist which relaxes vox's Amigdala.

Look maybe Anglin is a problem, maybe not. (Not) Maybe Richard is a blow hard (True) and maybe Johnson is a gay fed (probably). All cliques have skeletons in their closet. Standard ape behaviour is to shit on rival tribes while saying yours is golden. Next time Vox is on with Steph he needs to ask if poo flinging is an argument.


My respect for vox would go up immensely if he admitted this. Not even necessarily stop. I sure haven't. I just know what the hell I am doing.

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 18, 2017 12:11 PM  

As I concluded in the other thread where this came up, it really does seem like Neo-Nazism is simply a gay Jew honeypot operation. Which makes sense. Who would be attracted to a new-aged retread of a failed ideology?

It's not new, either. Goes back at least to the Skokie march (bravely (((white)))-knighted by ACLU to boot), probably even further back. It's kind of a pincer movement. You have infiltration via cucks and churchians on the one end, and a fake far-right on the other. Spencer was wanting to lead a bunch of the hapless into another trap - this time armed - in Charlotte, NC at the end of the year.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 12:16 PM  

You don't. What's that say about you? DR3 herp durp

Anonymous Ghost Who Walks October 18, 2017 12:20 PM  

As von Mises stated with his famous book's title, economics simply is "Human Action". Captain David Castle's book, "The Babylonian Woe" is also a must-read, usually found in free PDF format. Vox Day, will you please take a look at the late D. Aastle's book and consider reviewing it?

Anonymous Ghost Who Walks October 18, 2017 12:22 PM  

Astle, not Castle.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 12:36 PM  

U mad bro?

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 12:47 PM  

Exactly! You see that other clique over there has a broad range of economic ideas and commitment to them whereas our clique over here has a broad range of economic ideas and commitment to them. This objectively makes me really really smart. Like fucking genius smart. Like can fucking bend metal with my mind smart. Whereas you people are on the short bus. Like total window licking retard. Let me post hock rationalize an ideological container for my group and annother for their group. If anyone points out how these groups don't neatly fit into their containers it is because they are so unbelievably fucking stupid and I am so smart. Like possibly the smartest person at all. Cuz Jesus too. Now let me go inject more vanity directly into my veins.

Blogger LP9 October 18, 2017 12:51 PM  

Immense Truth from the Lying Anglin purged into the light by Vox as I learned Spencer hearts the EU, opposes Brexit;

"But it wasn't until I discovered that Spencer had opposed Brexit and supported the European Union that I began to conclude that he, and at least a portion of what I called the Alt White, were not even of the ideological Right at all. I soon got confirmation from Greg Johnson, Andrew Anglin, and their fellow travellers, as they tried to simultaneously - and dishonestly - argue that a) they were the most extreme right of the right-wing, b) any criticism of them was "punching right", and c) the terms of left and right were outdated and meaningless.

I don't know about you, but anyone who has read SJWADD will recognize that form of rhetorical sophistry. It is ambiguity."

Thank you.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 12:52 PM  

You will go further if you keep proclamaitions about what people beleive to a minimum. Obviously with the TRS clique here l, of course I read anon con, ex an cap so yes I grock Mises and I seriously doubt I am that special.

Blogger LP9 October 18, 2017 12:53 PM  

129 Love you ever reliable awesome Ken Kong.

Blogger 1337kestrel October 18, 2017 12:54 PM  

The claim is not that economics have become irrelevant or that economic values don't exist... we are free to adopt a far more pragmatic approach based on the situation we find ourselves in.

Free markets are a far more pragmatic approach. Let's gas everyone who disagrees. Problem solved.

nationalism is by it's nature at least partly collectivist. Nationalism demands a belief in the idea of a group's interests. Nationalism means that people are not just atomized idividual economic units.

I agree to an extent, which is the exact same extent to which I distrust nationalism. But no practical platform exists in a void. I prefer nationalism to internationalism.

There is also a degree to which nationalism is a personal preference, divorced from power politics. That is, a libertarian doesn't need authoritarian laws in order to privately support his nation. Voluntary collectivism is a fact of life. Virtually everyone supports their family or charity, participates in the free market, etc. A market is a collective endeavor to a certain extent.

The Left believes that the ends justify the means; therefore, left wing nationalism promotes the good of the nation regardless of what evil, moronic, or self defeating methods their power hungry bounders use.

The Right believes in right or wrong actions. Therefore truly right-wing nationalism will seek to promote the good of the nation within the limits of its own rules.

The Right Wing includes religious morality (not all religions), divine right, traditionalism, chivalry, rights ethics and the Non Aggression principle; some believe in one or the other, but they're all based on right or wrong acts, not ends. That's why the "right and left are old paradigms lol they changed because our shitty forum said so" argument is false. The paradigm may indeed change, but it cannot change to one where the Right is now the Left.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 12:58 PM  

Not sure I have met a single "empire minded" goy on this side of the isle but you are right about our primary issue being race. Sure is with me. It would be far from my ideal society but I could totally tollerate racist goy Bernie Sanders if it meant an end to White Genocide.

Blogger Jimmy The Freak October 18, 2017 1:00 PM  

JohnofAustria - I'm just shooting from the hip, but would you happen to be a boomer?

Lemur: Too short for the short bus.

Anonymous Anonymous October 18, 2017 1:01 PM  

Let me debunk this post by teleporting the Red army to your doorstep.

Blogger Bodo Staron October 18, 2017 1:13 PM  

Vox,
the whole idea of the "AltRight" is to be an alternative. Which you rightly pointed out in point 1 of the 16 points.

If you go on any of the political map tests, depending on the answer, the "dot" moves. But these tests won't work very well for the AltRight views because of contradictory answers within these tests.

Universal healthcare - a leftist idea, will not work? Well, it might if we take a look at demographics?

Free movement of people is an idea of the "right", but the AltRight hates that. We totally oppose it.

Basically these tests of the old left/right questions are meaningless, because some or many assumptions of the past turned out to be wrong. Stefan Molyneux realized why Libertarianism is just not happening, because of race and IQ and immigration.

Hoppe gave a great speech recently, where he points out the flaws of traditional libertarian thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TICdCM4j7x8

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 18, 2017 1:14 PM  

Patron:
True. However, I would say that the Alt-Right (a) recognises reality, which is that we're a tribal species by nature, rather than trying to force a Platonic ideal down everyone's throats. "Okay, we're a tribal species, but maybe we can try to get our individual liberty stuff working *within* the nation" basically.

Interesting. Out another way, you appear to be taking the position that individual liberty, property rights and other whig notions are a possibility only within a nationalist framework. Kind of a mirror image of "socialism in one country." The Saker has some very interesting writing related to this issue. (Note that Saker is actually an anti-communist).

The right-left terminology cooked up in the days of the French revolution has become increasingly meaningless over time, as Z-man has noted. Not exactly seeing anything to replace it apart from maybe globalist and anti-globalist. Still, it does not have much use except within the classical liberal confines of the US landscape.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 18, 2017 1:28 PM  

Neo-Nazi-boy leader turns out to be (((faggot))). It's the perennial Springtime for Hitler. Really deserves to be tweaked up as a novel, or a film, with much dark humor. Perhaps Owen Stanley could be persuaded?

Anonymous VFM #7916 October 18, 2017 1:28 PM  

@102

Nearly spit coffee everywhere from laughing. TYVM.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 18, 2017 1:31 PM  

@137 Gen Kong
The right-left terminology cooked up in the days of the French revolution has become increasingly meaningless over time, as Z-man has noted. Not exactly seeing anything to replace it apart from maybe globalist and anti-globalist.

There are several, just not widely used.
For example:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Pournelle_chart

Blogger peppermint88 October 18, 2017 1:34 PM  

Men who have something to lose leave activism to gay jews where possible. So it's not surprising to see this guy and rich incompetent Spencer in those roles.

As to the question of who is right-wing, it is true that Whites are a nation in America, due to historical circumstances. Spencer isn't that different from the Xirs who say Muslims become Americans in the second generation just like their Catholic ancestors. Fundamentally these people don't respect the organic nature of nations. It isn't complicated, but it isn't simple either.

Communism, of the UBI or robot singularity variety, being the future, is a rootless cosmopolitan fantasy. It is unsurprising that people who get nation wrong also get communism wrong.

Mike Enoch said that historical materialism is the class consciousness of the bugman.

Anonymous BBGKB October 18, 2017 1:45 PM  

Its really getting all ID politics

The jew patrol I London http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905047/Jewish-patrol-cars-force-London-amid-fears-copycat-attack.html#ixzz4vsG6EErb

& Mary Beard's official Hx of Europe
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11188/europe-erases-christianity

Blogger ZhukovG October 18, 2017 1:46 PM  

Nationalism is no more Collectivist then your affection for your family. Nationalism is an organic, natural sense of connection to those with whom one shares sufficient genetic and cultural commonality.

Nationalism requires no compulsion by the state. Globalism requires state compulsion because it is perverse and unnatural.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 1:46 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:There are several, just not widely used.
I like the Rummel chart too, although it requires explaining the difference between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, whereas to most people they are fundamentally indistinguishable.

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 1:52 PM  

"Universal healthcare - a leftist idea, will not work? Well, it might if we take a look at demographics?"

No, it doesn't work. Like all forms of socialism, it eventually collapses under the weight of

1) Decline in reproduction associated with socialism
2) The inability to be responsible with a seemingly endless supply of someone else's money
3) General incompetence of a protected market/racket

Blogger VD October 18, 2017 1:54 PM  

Universal healthcare - a leftist idea, will not work? Well, it might if we take a look at demographics?

No. It cannot work. Socialism doesn't work period. Ideology may be less important politically, but its consequences are by no means eliminated by changing demographics.

Free movement of people is an idea of the "right", but the AltRight hates that. We totally oppose it.

Again false. Transnationalism and the elimination of nations is of the Left. Do you forget the Socialist International?

You guys don't even know your Left from your Right.

Blogger Al October 18, 2017 1:54 PM  

At Romans 1:32, the Holy Ghost through St. Paul instructs us that not only are sodomites worthy of death, but so are those who support them.

Blogger 1337kestrel October 18, 2017 2:02 PM  

But these tests won't work very well for the AltRight views because of contradictory answers within these tests.

Universal healthcare - a leftist idea, will not work? Well, it might if we take a look at demographics?


No. It won't work. It can't work. Unless your goal is to impoverish white people and pollute the gene pool, ensuring that a future for white children looks like an episode of Jerry Springer.

Free movement of people is an idea of the "right", but the AltRight hates that. We totally oppose it.

Free movement of people across borders is not an idea of the right. If it were an idea of the right, and you "totally oppose it," that would make you left. It would not invalidate the left/right dichotomy. It would make you left wing. Which you clearly are.

Free movement of people anywhere where they are not trespassing is an idea of the right.

Basically these tests of the old left/right questions are meaningless, because some or many assumptions of the past turned out to be wrong.

Although you clearly do not understand what the left and right are, your statement would be correct if someone else said it in a different context. Someone who pointed out that all rights are inherently limited, such as how the right to free speech is not the right to a platform, and how we need to build our own platforms to make use of our right; or how the right of people to move freely does not let them move freely into someone else's space.

This is really elementary philosophy which probably predates the written word.

Blogger 1337kestrel October 18, 2017 2:03 PM  

Welp, ol Vox beat me again.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil October 18, 2017 2:13 PM  

Richard Spencer is... more extreme than he lets on in public. He was vague because he was dissembling.

Blogger weka October 18, 2017 2:17 PM  

Yes.
Because you are too short for the ride.

Blogger Matthew Funk October 18, 2017 2:19 PM  

The Chad Jared Taylor vs. the Virgin Richard Spencer.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 18, 2017 2:38 PM  

Considering that Richard Spencer has a gay voice, I think he is likely another one.

Anonymous Dox Gay lol October 18, 2017 2:39 PM  

“Economics underlies ALL human activity. “

Good to know the following people are now leftist because they disagree with your crude Jew/whig materialism:

The Southern Agrarians
Richard M. Weaver
Julius Evola
Aleksandr Dugin
Jesus Christ
St. Paul
GK Chesterton
Hilaire Belloc
JRR Tolkien
CS Lewis
Thomas Jefferson
Andrew Jackson
Father Coughlin
Francisco Franco
Russell Kirk
Samuel T. Francis
Alain de Benoist
St. Augustine
Vladmir Putin
Aristotle
Plato
Steve Bannon

Anonymous BBGKB October 18, 2017 2:43 PM  

"Universal healthcare - a leftist idea, will not work? Well, it might if we take a look at demographics?"

Like gun control it can only work in a white nation. Non Asian minorities have a lot more health problems than whites. Any benefit of universal health would come from preventative medicine being cheaper.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil October 18, 2017 2:53 PM  

"Considering that Richard Spencer has a gay voice, I think he is likely another one."

I'm pretty sure he's a Gamma who learned to hypnotize women.

Blogger Bodo Staron October 18, 2017 2:56 PM  

VD wrote:

No. It cannot work. Socialism doesn't work period. Ideology may be less important politically, but its consequences are by no means eliminated by changing demographics.


See Japan as one example. Depends on the definition of "works", maybe "outcome" is a better term.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Health_care_system_in_Japan

VD wrote:

Again false. Transnationalism and the elimination of nations is of the Left. Do you forget the Socialist International?

You guys don't even know your Left from your Right.


13. The Alt Right rejects international free trade and the free movement of peoples that free trade requires. The benefits of intranational free trade is not evidence for the benefits of international free trade.

You can go sites like this, clearly, the ideas of "free trade" and therefore "free movement of people" is of the right.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

Blogger David Power October 18, 2017 3:00 PM  

Can anyone think if another self-confessed Gay Jew Right-wing activist?

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 18, 2017 3:01 PM  

As for all the various attempts to rehab the Nazis, the historical record of the Nazis should serve as conclusive proof that their claim of being on the right side of the spectrum is if anything even more of a lie than Voltaire's takedown of the Holy Roman Empire (neither Holy, Roman or even an empire).

If the Nazis were 'all about preserving the white race' (Anglin, et al), then how does he explain that they killed 2 whites for every non-white killed? If they were 'all about German nationalism', their destruction of Germany via debt-fueled imperialism proves otherwise. What is there to admire about another tiresome racket run by criminals sold with a utopian lie? Another question that pops into mind with the revelations of gay jews being involved with so much faux-Nazi crap is the constant drumbeat of blaming Christianity for the entire mess we're in one encounters at Dicky's Dance Party (Springtime for Hitler to a hip-hop beat I suppose).

Blogger pnq8787 October 18, 2017 3:10 PM  

Epitaph for the European peoples: Here lies the race of midwits, too smart to be raw tribalists, too dumb to see past the intellectual candy of the Jews.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents October 18, 2017 3:12 PM  

This NSFW report of a new hack of the Internet of Things via the Bluetooth Low Energy protocol (BLE) just fits right in to the topic thread.

Anonymous Educated October 18, 2017 3:12 PM  

"You guys don't even know your Left from your Right."

We read books by Oswald Spengler. You read D&D novels.

Blogger Bodo Staron October 18, 2017 3:12 PM  

1337kestrel wrote:

Free movement of people across borders is not an idea of the right. If it were an idea of the right, and you "totally oppose it," that would make you left. It would not invalidate the left/right dichotomy. It would make you left wing. Which you clearly are.

Free movement of people anywhere where they are not trespassing is an idea of the right.


Interesting. So Ludwig von Mises is left wing in your argument?

https://infogalactic.com/info/Right-libertarianism

Please go ahead and read the chapter on free movement of people in his 1927 book "Liberalism". VD also quoted it in his critique of free trade (and free movement of people that free trade requires).

Blogger David Power October 18, 2017 3:16 PM  



Is National Socialism of the Left or of the Right?

Anyone who is politically literate and Red-Pill aware, could not help but observe that the Left is quintessentially female in character.

In the sense that it's priorities and methods of achieving those priorities, mirror the evolved survival strategies of the female psyche.

i.e. Resource redistribution, Shaming Tactics, Let's You and Him Fight etc.

The Right, in contrast, is quintessentially masculine in character and mirrors the evolved survival strategies of the male psyche.

i.e. Rewarding Hard Work, Maintaining a Strong Military, Securing Borders etc.

So to determine wether National Socialism is of the Left or Right, first you'll need to decide wether National Socialism's methods and priorities are in essence, male or female.

Considering when broken down to bare essentials, the defining difference between the sexes is; The female invites, the male invades.

This btw, is true on every level the sexes collide. Be it when sperm meets egg, penis meets vagina or when masculine religion meets feminised culture.

Considering the Nazis invaded most of Europe, I'd say Hitler's form of National Socialism was, masculine in essence and therefore - of the Right.

By that definition, I hear you say, the Russia of Lenin and Stalin and the China of Mao are Right Wing.

No it does not.

Invading other countries by force, was never an inherent feature of any of the regimes you mention, or Communism in general for that matter.

Communists believed in spreading their ideology via stealth methods; Propaganda and Coups etc. - not an overt war.

Even Stalin signed a non-aggression pack with Hitler in the hope of avoiding having to fight. He was quite content to let you and him fight and a only started to fight himself in self-defence.

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 3:19 PM  

"So Ludwig von Mises is left wing in your argument?"

I'm not sure why the option of "centrist libertarian" was somehow ignored.

"Good to know the following people are now leftist because they disagree with your crude Jew/whig materialism:"

For the short-bus readers who don't understand this:

Economics is, at core, an analysis and study of the value metrics by which people make choices. That doesn't just mean "money". In fact, one of the largest aspects of economics that is ignored by the mainstream is the vast degree to which choices are NOT based on strict material valuation. Examples: people who buy things to show off how much money they have; people who choose to die for a cause; people who choose a life of spartan poverty; et cetera.

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 3:20 PM  

@Bodo Staron
See Japan as one example. Depends on the definition of "works", maybe "outcome" is a better term.

See S1AL's post:

No, it doesn't work. Like all forms of socialism, it eventually collapses under the weight of
1) Decline in reproduction associated with socialism

Japan's declining birth rates are very well known and a large concern over there.
2) The inability to be responsible with a seemingly endless supply of someone else's money
Japan's took Keynes and wracked up a huge debt to over twice their GDP. And they haven't managed to revitalize spit with it.
3) General incompetence of a protected market/racket
Japan used to be huge in production and "Made in Japan". Now what are they? Aging/dying software companies and some car companies that manufacture outside of Japan, or huge global conglomerates. Pretty sure Japan's middle class is dying out just like America's.

You can go sites like this, clearly, the ideas of "free trade" and therefore "free movement of people" is of the right.

You can also go on sites that list how black people were kangz. Are they right? If not, why are they wrong and why is politicalcompass.org right?

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 3:21 PM  

"Considering the Nazis invaded most of Europe, I'd say Hitler's form of National Socialism was, masculine in essence and therefore - of the Right."

By your idiot definition, nationalism is of the left.

Blogger Warren Yurmind October 18, 2017 3:30 PM  

A lot of confusion on this topic comes from the distortion of words, psycho-spiritual warfare.
By mainstream definitions today, National Socialists aka Nazis are "far Right."

right wing - natural heirarchical order - stigmatized as chauvinism, racism, sexism, classism, intelligencism, ablism, degenerophobia, etc.

left wing - equalitarianism - we're all equally special because moralism.

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III October 18, 2017 3:33 PM  

Slightly OT, "Anne Frank" Halloween Costume (not a lampshade)

https://www.amazon.com/Smiffys-World-Evacuee-Costume-Dress/dp/B004MLD8YI

Blogger Orthodox October 18, 2017 3:40 PM  

Economics is, at core, an analysis and study of the value metrics by which people make choices.

It used to be called political economy. Everything is trade-offs.

I don't know about you, but anyone who has read SJWADD will recognize that form of rhetorical sophistry. It is ambiguity.

My favorite ambiguous statement is "we're all Nazis anyway." The left tries to blur the line such that the term Nazi includes Mitt Romney. Nazis also like to blur the line to infiltrate the right. Anyone assisting in the blurring of these terms is a leftist, a Nazi, or a moron.

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 3:41 PM  

By mainstream definitions today, National Socialists aka Nazis are "far Right."

Mainstream definitions also hold that "gender is a social construct" and that trannies are brave and strong and DEFINITELY not a suicide waiting to happen.

Perhaps "mainstream definitions" aren't something you should rely on, especially when they've been purposefully conflating words to accomplish political ends for decades.

Blogger Desdichado October 18, 2017 3:44 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:You can go sites like this, clearly, the ideas of "free trade" and therefore "free movement of people" is of the right.

You can also go on sites that list how black people were kangz. Are they right? If not, why are they wrong and why is politicalcompass.org right?

Nazis wuz right-wangz?

Blogger Orthodox October 18, 2017 3:46 PM  

By mainstream definitions today, National Socialists aka Nazis are "far Right."

It's not only mainstream. Plenty of Nazi historians who aren't leftists also right-wing features in Nazism. Nazism as a whole is really something that belongs outside of the left-right paradigm. The economics were clearly left-wing, but culturally is was a reaction against the Wiemar decadence that is eerily similar to today, hence the term Weimerica.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil October 18, 2017 3:48 PM  

@Orthodox
'My favorite ambiguous statement is "we're all Nazis anyway." The left tries to blur the line such that the term Nazi includes Mitt Romney. Nazis also like to blur the line to infiltrate the right. Anyone assisting in the blurring of these terms is a leftist, a Nazi, or a moron.'

Retort: "What do you mean 'we,' kemosabe?"

Blogger Orthodox October 18, 2017 3:50 PM  

the ideas of "free trade" and therefore "free movement of people" is of the right.

This is why people need to study history. There's always a left and right in the present, but the center moves over time. This isn't helpful for the Nazis though. If you take the reactionary view and go back to the Enlightenment, you can put free trade and free movement on the left/liberal side, but now the Nazis are way, way out on the left because they're over there with Marx and all the other revolutionaries. There's no way to move the Nazis into the right without moving farther left, i.e. losing. Nazis are most clearly right-wing when everyone is already a communist.

Anonymous Rape October 18, 2017 3:57 PM  

I certainly agree that homosexual jews are a problem for the right.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) October 18, 2017 4:10 PM  

3. Live by the Parentheses, Die by the Parentheses October 18, 2017 5:50 AM
You're a Fake Indian, claiming to be an American, living in Italy, and you're going to lecture us?



Fake Right Nazis call Vox a Jewfag.

Vox notes that the attacks have been made.

Fake Right Nazi accuses Vox of being Fake.

isn't it strange? how Jewey the behavior of the FakeWhite is?

11. Steve October 18, 2017 6:27 AM
Richard Spencer, though, is apparently untouchable on Twitter.


well, isn't THAT an apt point.


20. Lemur October 18, 2017 6:51 AM
Furthermore, you can't really lump Johnson, Anglin, and Spencer in the same camp. Their views and style differ.


i believe Anglin already attempted the "there are No True Nazis / i am the only True Nazi" line of Rhetoric.

didn't work for him either.

you might want to try something better?




39. Lemur October 18, 2017 8:01 AM
Nationalism supersedes and redefines the left-right dichotomy.



*snort*

as if Nations did not predate the Left / Right paradigm by Millennia.

and you presume to lecture us on OUR ignorance?



48. Lemur October 18, 2017 8:21 AM
Here, various dissident right factions have asked the question 'what does it mean to be right wing in the supra-fractal context?'



ah, we're already to the word salad gibberish demonstrating superiority over those so simple minded they "can't understand simple concepts" part of the posturing?

you move fast, i'll give you that.

note:
"Fractal" means a pattern that repeats and iterates AT ALL SCALES. to understand the fractal pattern imputes an understanding regardless of sub- or supra- scale.



40. VD October 18, 2017 8:07 AM
Economics underlies ALL human activity.


which is why Wilson was so important to Chuck Noland.

kind of hard to have an "economy" when your population is 1.




63. Desdichado October 18, 2017 8:42 AM
Why? The British were more imperialist historically than the Germans,


1 - you are NOT supposed to have noticed that

2 - circa 1900, White America understood itself to be the culmination and supreme achievement of the Western movement of the ANGLO-SAXON peoples. ie - we knew that we WERE a subset of the Teutons.


88. pnq8787 October 18, 2017 9:35 AM
Which is to say that there are still many people in the BNP who really are British and really want to protect their nation.



duh?

the problem is not that there are many in the BNP who are truly concerned about the well being of their nation and the future of their children.

the problem is that they allowed themselves to be led by a homosexual Jew who was lying to them the whole time.


93. Robert Jones October 18, 2017 9:45 AM
That if being a gay Jew disqualifies you from being right wing why they hell are you hanging out with him?



a - Milo doesn't claim to be Alt-Right

b - Milo doesn't presume to "lead" anyone

c - Vox has never asserted that he ONLY associates with those of the Right / Alt-Right / Paleo-Conservative / Whatever

congratulations on failing to make any point whatsoever.

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 4:14 PM  

"circa 1900, White America understood itself to be the culmination and supreme achievement of the Western movement of the ANGLO-SAXON peoples. ie - we knew that we WERE a subset of the Teutons."

Speak for yourself. The "Teutonic peoples" are not actually Teutonic and never were. The Teutons lost. BTFO by Angles and Saxons in the lineage department. Hell, "Frankish" would be more accurate.

Blogger David Power October 18, 2017 4:20 PM  


@S2AL "By your idiot definition, nationalism is of the left."

It means nothing of the sort and Kindly refrain from the school yard insults.

The founding premiss of my hypophysis is unassailable. (And before arguing with that, you may want to check with our host).

I am however, perfectly open to be in persuaded as to the validity of my conclusion. But that will take something you are yet to provide. Namely... a sound logic-based, robustly structured, consistent argument.

But if all you have is the usual emotive impulsive hysterical accusative rhetoric, that far too often passes for debate on this otherwise interesting site, don't bother me, I'm busy.

Blogger Student in Blue October 18, 2017 4:30 PM  

@Orthodox
It's not only mainstream. Plenty of Nazi historians who aren't leftists also right-wing features in Nazism.

This sentence is not making any sense. Rephrase?

The economics were clearly left-wing, but culturally is was a reaction against the Wiemar decadence that is eerily similar to today, hence the term Weimerica.

Just because it's a reaction doesn't mean it was right-wing. Consider all the uprisings that happen in Africa - they overthrow a tyrannical despot and install... another tyrannical despot, just with a different set of people in the in-group.

Consider the nationalists coming out in Europe now in reaction to the EU migration party. A number of them are straight-up leftists as well.

Sometimes, leftists revolt to overthrow previous leftists.

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 4:50 PM  

David Power wrote:It means nothing of the sort.

It absolutely does. Invasion is imperialistic, not nationalistic. By framing imperialism as "the one true way of the true right", you automatically place nationalism on the left.

Try again.

David Power wrote:The founding premiss of my hypophysis is unassailable. (And before arguing with that, you may want to check with our host).

It's as assailable as a drunken Frenchwoman. This isn't Heartiste.

David Power wrote:I am however, perfectly open to be in persuaded as to the validity of my conclusion. But that will take something you are yet to provide. Namely... a sound logic-based, robustly structured, consistent argument.

See above. Second example: isolationism is considered right-wing by virtually everyone.

David Power wrote:But if all you have is the usual emotive impulsive hysterical accusative rhetoric, that far too often passes for debate on this otherwise interesting site, don't bother me, I'm busy.

You should learn to distinguish between disdain and other emotions.

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 4:54 PM  

"It's not only mainstream. Plenty of Nazi historians who aren't leftists also right-wing features in Nazism. Nazism as a whole is really something that belongs outside of the left-right paradigm. The economics were clearly left-wing, but culturally is was a reaction against the Wiemar decadence that is eerily similar to today, hence the term Weimerica."

Nationalism is the sole right-wing aspect of Nazism. You know the phrase "anyone to the right of Stalin" that we use to mock extreme lefties? Yeahhhhhh... this is the primary example.

Since it bears repeating: outside of the context of monarchism, the Girondists were the progenitors of the "right-wing" designation. Family-focused, federalist, nationalist, bourgeoisie. Nazism was none of those things.

(Before anyone starts spouting off about Nazis and family, they were pro-breeding, not pro-family.)

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 18, 2017 4:54 PM  

@179 David Power

The founding premiss of my hypophysis is unassailable

Before your hyophysis was a miss, what was she? That is, what was she in the premiss state?

Blogger ZhukovG October 18, 2017 4:56 PM  

I wonder, was the NSDAP really a legitimate German Nationalist movement? Or was it simply an emotional reaction to national trauma, built on a foundation of Leftist socio/economic policies and a 'Cult of Personality'?

After all, the NSDAP would never have come to power if not for the female vote.

Anonymous FP October 18, 2017 4:56 PM  

Lemur wrote:@basementhomebrewer


What you don't get is that economics is ultimately a pragmatic exercise. Sometimes the freemarket is the best option. Other times may require the state, or a combination of both. The only reason the US doesn't have socialized medicine is diversity. European states, until recently, had sufficiently homogeneous, high trust populations for a public health service.


No, the USA has had socialized medicine or a combination of it since 1968 and the creation of medicare and medicaid. The state and federal government involvement (hell even the VA) has been setting prices for the healthcare services market since then. The government is acting like a walmart with its monopolies. Yet in between whinging about walmart, people (especially socialists, progressives and general idiots) will beg for government to create more monopolies. Education, healthcare and housing. Three areas of the economy that outpace inflation a lot.

As for Europe, get back to me when Europe pays for their own defenses and doesn't rely on American research and drug approvals for their own healthcare. Americans cannot by law re-import cheap drugs sold to those socialist healthcare paradises in Europe. America subsidizes Europe on defense and healthcare. Even with a homogeneous society I doubt they could pull it off.

Blogger Orthodox October 18, 2017 5:20 PM  

What is left-wing about this:

Physician Magnus Hirschfeld established the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft (Institute for Sexology) in 1919, and it remained open until 1933. Hirschfeld believed that an understanding of homosexuality could be arrived at through science. Hirschfeld was a vocal advocate for homosexual, bisexual, and transgender legal rights for men and women, repeatedly petitioning parliament for legal changes. His Institute also included a museum. The Institute, museum and the Institute's library and archives were all destroyed by the Nazi regime in 1933.Weimar culture

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 18, 2017 6:06 PM  

But if all you have is the usual emotive impulsive hysterical accusative rhetoric, that far too often passes for debate on this otherwise interesting site, don't bother me, I'm busy.
Projection is not limited to the SJWs

What is left-wing about this:
...The Institute, museum and the Institute's library and archives were all destroyed by the Nazi regime in 1933.

The Institue was destroyed and its records burned to cover up the blatant homosexuality of many Nazi leaders, who had been sent by the court to the Institute for treatment after comitting sex crimes.

Anonymous VFM #7916 October 18, 2017 6:07 PM  

@179

Babble. Assigning Left/Right definition using male/female assignment to historical actions? One might as well use body count. NatSoc is still of the left, but more pussy than the USSR or the ChiComs. After all, isn't it a female thing to kill their own offspring/citizens?

See? I can do it too.

Blogger David Power October 18, 2017 6:18 PM  

@S1AL

"Invasion is imperialistic, not nationalistic."

And there we have it. Your error is to believe nationalism and imperialism are mutually exclusive. They are not. In fact, without the former, you are unlikely to get the latter. 1930's Japan, for instance, was both.



Nationalistic: adj - devotion to the interests or culture of a particular Nation including promoting the interests of one nation over those of others.

Imperialistic: adj - relating to or characterized by a policy of imperialism.

Imperialism: noun - the policy of one country extending it's rule over another/others.

"By framing imperialism as "the one true way of the true right", you automatically place nationalism on the left."

I did nothing of the sort and your quotation marks are, let's be kind and say... erroneous.

The Left is quintessentially female in character. This is an unassailable fact. (And before arguing otherwise, you may want to check with our host).

"It's as assailable as a drunken Frenchwoman.

Have you ever even read our host's other site?

"You should learn to distinguish between disdain and other emotions. This isn't Heartiste."

And you should learn that your emotions are of zero interest to me. This isn't Huffington.

But I can tell you this; the person who's opinion you think you are defending, wouldn't employ the same weak arguments you have attempted.

And with that I'm going to shut this ride down until someone taller comes along.

Blogger S1AL October 18, 2017 6:27 PM  

David Power wrote:And there we have it. Your error is to believe nationalism and imperialism are mutually exclusive. They are not. In fact, without the former, you are unlikely to get the latter. 1930's Japan, for instance, was both.

I didn't say that. Imperialism is politically neutral, though opposed to "omni-nationalism" (one of the 16 points, remember).

David Power wrote:The Left is quintessentially female in character. This is an unassailable fact. (And before arguing otherwise, you may want to check with our host).

It's not, though, given that I just assailed it. You should look up words before you pretend to know what they mean.

Here, I'll do it again:

"Invading other countries by force, was never an inherent feature of any of the regimes you mention, or Communism in general for that matter."

Utter. Bullshit. Every major Communist nation engaged in imperialism.

David Power wrote:Have you ever even read our host's other site?

Yes. Which is why I know that you aren't actually referring to it.

David Power wrote:And you should learn that your emotions are of zero interest to me. This isn't Huffington.

If they weren't of any interest, you wouldn't be trying to tell me what they are or whining about their hypothetical existence so much.

David Power wrote:But I can tell you this; the person who's opinion you think you are defending, wouldn't employ the same weak arguments you have attempted.

I'm not defending anyone's opinion. I'm rebutting your stupidity with historical facts.

David Power wrote:nd with that I'm going to shut this ride down until someone taller comes along.

I'm already here. You're welcome.

Blogger David Power October 18, 2017 6:41 PM  

@Deplorable Paradigm

She was an online monkey who looked for spelling mistakes like she was looking fleas.

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