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Tuesday, October 17, 2017

Mailvox: convergence in the churches

SC wonders where it starts:
In your chapter in SJWADD on the SJW convergence sequence, you talk mostly about corporations and how they can be slowly infiltrated. You do mention churches in places, particularly the saga of North Heights. I have one question about the infiltration/reinforcement stage as it applies to churches. You point to HR as the primary locus of SJW infiltration in companies. What do you think it is in a church? I would say the two best places would be children's ministry and a deaconess ministry (if a church already has one); basically, stuff that allows someone to have behind-the-scenes or administrative influence.
The first place it starts is the Sunday Schools, because it is always hard to find the teachers and women are much more inclined to take on the role of educating children. The second place is the administrative functions, because those are not traditionally considered to be subject to the various strictures relevant to the Biblical standards. After all, the Bible may limit pastoral duties and the Elders to men, but says nothing about accountants and secretaries.

The third place is the singles ministry. Because no one, least of all good Christians, wants to blame single mothers for their poor choices, and because too many of the men who attend the singles' groups tend to be low in socio-sexual status, there is a natural tendency to gravitate toward secular standards and feminism that provides an entry point for convergence. Be particularly wary of any pastor who moves into leadership from either the singles or women's ministry.

It would probably be very useful to research how the women who end up in the pulpit at converged churches began their careers in the church. That would provide a sound basis for what is merely casual observation and conjecture at this point. Where, for example, did Mindy Bak first begin her career at North Heights?

For more about this, read SJWS Always Double Down.

Mailvox: another reader notes that a female family member, my sister is a "minister" in a thoroughly converged church, got her start in the women's ministry in college.

Labels:

113 Comments:

Blogger Gloriam Deo October 17, 2017 1:11 PM  

The desperation of churchians to defend single mothers baffles me. Should we help them? sure, but let's not excuse them. The only ones worthy of your pity are rape victims the others deserve help only for their child's sake.

Blogger weka October 17, 2017 1:15 PM  

Then the women's ministry, where abuse is defined broadly... And encourage women to frivorce.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 17, 2017 1:24 PM  

On a positive note, the Church I started attending recently re-instituted formal biblical discipline. This process causes strife in the short term but goes a long way towards keeping SJWs out.

Blogger Johnny October 17, 2017 1:26 PM  

Gloriam Deo wrote:The desperation of churchians to defend single mothers baffles me.

I believe it is a matter of virtue signaling. They are showing superior forgiveness. An unfortunate side effect is the covert encouragement of unwise or sinful behavior. Alas, this tendency also occurs in other areas.

A second feature is that it diminishes the role of the man as he is absent, and thus exalts the women at the expense of the man. Note also that Jesus was said to have been divine conception, placing Mary at the center and diminishing the role of Joseph. Thus Mary becomes the central figure in the story, giving an appeal to the exaltation of Mary.

Another example is the mother of Alexander the Great. Known to be a power hungry and assertive female. By claiming and apparently sincerely believing that he was produced by a god, not Philip, she put herself in the exalted position of parent, instead of the husband.

Anonymous VFM #7916 October 17, 2017 1:28 PM  

The Finance Committee.

Women are the typical tithe payers. They also have the most control over attendance and which church to attend.

If the women of the church get badfeelz from the reality that sin begins with them violating the First Commandment (She is God), and her husband's same sin (pedestalizing his wife in place of God), they won't come.

No attendance, no tithe, no fancy church.

Blogger Ransom Smith October 17, 2017 1:32 PM  

Singles and young adult groups are massively converged.
A friend of mine invited me years ago to his church's Wednesday night YA group. I didn't have anything to do since my church didn't have one, so I went. Semi hoping to meet a cute girl.
But quickly learned no one there was serious. They would constantly say how they loved God but were a bunch of worldly self righteous narcissists.

Blogger Koanic October 17, 2017 1:33 PM  

Accountants? Seriously?

Besides Judas.

Blogger SouthRon October 17, 2017 1:36 PM  

For churches where the membership votes on things, allowing women to vote is right up there with Sunday Schools. Women out number men in churches and will vote convergence.

Women teaching children's Sunday School gives them undue spiritual influence over children and simply puts a generational throttle on the rate of convergence, but is no less damaging.

Anonymous torpedo October 17, 2017 1:49 PM  

> others deserve help only for their child's sake.

So if they know in advance that you'll help them raise and finance Chad's child, even when Chad refuses to pay child support, why should they avoid getting themselves knocked up by Chad anyway?

The "we have to help them in the name of the children" attitude is the major reason single momery exists in the first place.

Why marry a low-SMV beta and bear his low-SMV child, when you can get knocked up by a high-SMV Chad and let the low-SMV beta help you "in the name of the children".

The only way to force women to avoid single momery is letting them know that if Chad wont pay for the child, there will be no help, and the child will be left to starve.

As soon as any kind of "help" can be counted on, Chad+help becomes a better option than low-SMV-beta+marriage.

Blogger Gloriam Deo October 17, 2017 1:53 PM  

> As soon as any kind of "help" can be counted on, Chad+help becomes a better option than low-SMV-beta+marriage.

Not saying the current methods of help are a good thing. However, we can influence that new generation by mentoring them and speaking frankly of their mothers failings.

Blogger Nate October 17, 2017 1:55 PM  

"The first place it starts is the Sunday Schools, because it is always hard to find the teachers and women are much more inclined to take on the role of educating children"

Ding ding ding

However the biggest weak point right now is at the top. There is a giant shortage of mainline ministers. Seminaries are not putting out nearly enough ministers to keep up. So standards have to be continually lowered... it becomes a huge wide open door for SJWs to walk through... and they immediately have power at their disposal.

No matter what blocks are laid in front of the SJW would-be pastors... whatever oaths they are asked to take... they simply defeat these protections by lying.

For example the UMC requires all ministers to take an oath that they are not a practicing homosexual when they are frocked.

The SJW simply lies... and says to himself "I wasn't practicing right then. I waited till I got home to celebrate!"

Blogger NO GOOGLES October 17, 2017 1:55 PM  

#9

Not necessarily. That scenario only happens when there is insufficient shaming applied to unfaithful/unscrupulous women. Of course, that's pretty common today - but wasn't always. Not letting children starve and shaming bad women is the better option, but of course the religion of Feminism can't allow women to ever feel as if they did anything wrong.

Blogger Nate October 17, 2017 1:56 PM  

also... remember the SJWs are hugely drawn to anything involving social media.

Anonymous Viking October 17, 2017 2:04 PM  

I have noticed in Catholic Churches the RCIA or Catechumenate where teens and adults are educated in the faith as they come into the Church also tend to be run by these types. and often the Parish director of religious education is the source if not the pastor himself.

Blogger ZhukovG October 17, 2017 2:05 PM  

I believe the Church need not embrace either Randian Objectivism or Worldly Compromise and still minister effectively to single mothers.

You just have to make no bones about the fact that though the child is blameless in this situation the commission of fornication was a vile sin for which the mother should be deeply ashamed.

Anonymous John 8:44 October 17, 2017 2:10 PM  

Jerry Falwell was given a Lear jet from the Israeli government in 1979.

Goldman Sachs funds all that "Christian" entertainment, movies, books, music, etc....

Pope Cuck concealed the cross when he hosted a delegation of 15 Argentine Jewish leaders at a kosher luncheon in the Vatican (source: https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/tag/pope-francis-hides-pectoral-cross/)

Just follow (((the money)))

Blogger Doug Cranmer October 17, 2017 2:13 PM  

A church I have friends who attend say it's at the top with the minister (male). United Church of Canada, of course. There is so much government funding available for immigrant "refugees" and disadvantaged yutes.

So we've got Somolian and Arab thugs hanging around the new center causing trouble.

Blogger Sam Lively October 17, 2017 2:19 PM  

@11

There's definitely an oversupply of evangelical pastors.

Anonymous krymneth October 17, 2017 2:24 PM  

basementhomebrewer wrote:On a positive note, the Church I started attending recently re-instituted formal biblical discipline. This process causes strife in the short term but goes a long way towards keeping SJWs out.

I'm curious exactly what you mean by that. Can you elaborate a bit?

(I know what the Bible says, but as in many things, it is more a guideline than a rigidly defined process. Many things could be argued to fit within its constraints.)

Blogger VFM #7634 October 17, 2017 2:31 PM  

I have noticed in Catholic Churches the RCIA or Catechumenate where teens and adults are educated in the faith as they come into the Church also tend to be run by these types.

@14 Viking
Helps explain why the Catholic Church has such an awful conversion balance these days. (That, and the Church itself being run by SJWs at the top.)

Anonymous VFM #7916 October 17, 2017 2:34 PM  

@7, @17

That church as to be paid for. Money governs the modern church, not doctrine. It's a handy cover, but look at the Minnesota "churches" that double as immivader centers. It's all about the money. The "elders" of a church will put up big dollars or will guarantee debt. Think that does not come with strings? If it's a choice between doctrine and going BK I know which way the church will go.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 17, 2017 2:36 PM  

If a member knows of another member actively committing a sin they confront them privately and ask them to stop. If they do not, that member brings the situation to the attention of the deacons and pastor. They will investigate the situation and if they find it has merit they will publicly name the person and their sin in front of a church members only session and again ask them to repent and cease their sin. They will also ask that person to no longer participate in Church activities until they have taken steps to correct their behavior. If they still have not corrected the sin the action is a last chance, if they do not repent at this point the church will strip their membership and ask them to not return.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer October 17, 2017 2:37 PM  

If they still have not corrected the sin the action.

The *third* action

Blogger peppermint88 October 17, 2017 2:39 PM  

In the early 90s, when Lisa said that the Bible says judge not lest ye be judged, Reverend Lovejoy said that's probably somewhere towards the back.

Lovejoy's "think of the children" wife taught endless love and forgiveness in sunday school.

Church no longer exists in the minds of Millennials, much less GenZ.

Anonymous torpedo October 17, 2017 2:44 PM  

#12

> Not letting children starve and shaming bad women is the better option

No it isnt.

Proof: It didnt work the first time.

Being knocked up by high-SMV Chad and having somebody else pay for Chad's high-SMV child and being shamed for it is more attractive than marrying a low-SMV beta against your will and bearing low-SMV beta's low-SMV child just to avoid the shaming.

The shaming doesnt even work when you know that everybody attempting to shame you has a lower SMV than the high-SMV Chad who knocked you up. It does not work the same way wheezing, sweating obese whales can not shame a skinny girl into eating more.

Blogger Matamoros October 17, 2017 2:49 PM  

@20. VFM #7634

The Catholic Church has basically 3 groupings, High Church, Middle Church, and Low Church - much like the old Anglican Church.

High Church is the Traditional Latin Mass and very conservative Novus Ordo dioceses and parishes.

Here the conversions are heavy, the parishes are thriving and the people live and believe their Catholicism.

For ex: I have 5 daughters who married non-Catholics - 4 have converted to traditional Catholicism, and one is in RCIA to convert. One was a hardline Baptist.

Two other children married middle or low church Catholics and their spouses are also traditional Catholics now.

Middle Church are those who want to be Catholic make some effort at maintaining the Mass and Sacraments, but are slowly becoming converged due to SJW entryism and use of post-Vatican II catechisms. Few converions, but some.

Low Church is basically the SJW churchians, their parishes are dying, no conversions, no real catchesis so there is no real believe in the doctrines of the Church but they may still identify as Catholic. However, losses are heavy as people leave the Church for other horizons.

Anonymous Nimgaladh October 17, 2017 2:50 PM  

Hello. One year reader, first time commenter. Thank you all for a great website. It has been such an education and inspiration.

I recently watched an online lecture by Jordan Peterson. He spoke of the Egyptian myth of Osiris and the war over his throne. Osiris had been ruling for a long time, while his brother Set conspired against him. Set desired the throne for himself, and by deceit caused Osiris to die, and then dismembered the corpse. As great as Osiris was, he lacked the wisdom, foresight, and ambition to prevent his brother's betrayal. Isis, the widow of Osiris, was left with hard work of putting things right again. She gathered the parts of her husband's body, all except his reproductive member, which she replaced with a gold facsimile. She then went to her father Ra, the ancient and senile sun god. She convinced him to speak to her his true name, the source of his power. With knowledge of that name, Isis became the most powerful magician, and cast a spell to restore vitality to her husband. She thereby conceived a child. Her son, Horus, when he came of age, battled Set for the throne, and won, losing his eye in the process. Horus found his eye, and instead of simply restoring it, he went into the underworld and gave it to his father Osiris. Osiris had new sight and new life, and Horus sat on the throne as they ruled together.

The old tradition is attacked, corrupted, and replaced by its competitor when the old way has become complacent and sterile. This event is healthy, and necessarily inevitable. The consequences will be good and bad (and often catastrophic). Organic forces create from the ruins a new possibility to replace the imposter. The only genuine replacement of the false order is a variation on what worked before. The Roman republic fell, Greek democracy failed, English kings abused their authority, so the American revolutionaries, rather than turning to anarchy, learned from history and created a new but familiar order with states, senates, presidents and governors, elected representatives, and so on. When that system grows into a Leviathan, it too will be slain, and rise again as a new child. Those who live through the revolutionary period must do the hard work of crafting a new order and giving it life.

I have great respect for the Catholic faith and its heritage. I have about as much respect for the Catholic church today as I have for Hollywood or the "Boy" Scouts. Any church or business that actively supports crimes against humanity is already a vampire, pretending to be human but living by stealing the essence of others. When the Catholic church falls, many will suffer; but many are suffering now. Get the garlic and the stake, bless the water and raise the cross. Let the dinosaurs be hit by an asteroid so that the mammals may take over.

Blogger SouthRon October 17, 2017 3:01 PM  

Seminaries are not putting out nearly enough ministers to keep up. So standards have to be continually lowered... it becomes a huge wide open door for SJWs to walk through... and they immediately have power at their disposal.

When I checked a dozen years ago, seminaries were graduating 7,500 pastoral ministry students per year with only 750 open positions per annum. That's 10:1. Now as to qualified ministers, that's a totally different manner. Male? Husband? Rules his children well? Not a novice? ...

Blogger Johnny October 17, 2017 3:15 PM  

torpedo wrote:#12

> Not letting children starve and shaming bad women is the better option


I have not studied the history of the Catholic Church enough to be sure about it, but I believe the following to be true in at least some areas in the Middle Ages.

What I am certain of is that in some periods a very large portion of the population in some areas consisted of people in monasteries. Perhaps as many as a third. The second thing is that abstinence caused this portion of the population to almost never reproduce.

We tend to think of the monastery population as being devoutly religious, but they also offered free room and board, although in otherwise harsh living conditions. Now given the poverty of the Middle Ages and the lack of a social net for the very poor, entering a monastery was a way for the very poor to stay alive. Meanwhile they were also taken out of the breeding pool. Thus the welfare recipients did not produce the next generations.

Additionally in some areas the church would take in abandoned children, and not uncommonly these were babies. The rub was that they were raised in such a way that they commonly ended up in a monastery, thus impoverished offspring were taken out of the breeding pool also. As an unwed mother, if not from a wealthy family, would be all but without resources, her little bastards when raised by the church would also be taken out of the breeding pool.

To cut to the chase, the whole thing can be taken as an unintentional eugenics program, terminating the reproduction of society's least successful members.

Blogger ZhukovG October 17, 2017 3:22 PM  

@torpedo: It worked fine, until the shaming stopped.

But, I am curious. In which denomination are you working to put your prescription into practice?

Anonymous CPEG October 17, 2017 3:22 PM  

"but of course the religion of Feminism can't allow women to ever feel as if they did anything wrong."

That is why every single "Christian" group that wishes to remain a "Christian" group should nail 1 Corinthians 5 to the bulletin board.

It's not just SJWs who always double down - anybody who doesn't want to admit they did wrong will do so. (And there will be substantial overlap, and anybody with that trait will be susceptible to SJW brainwashing, of course.)

Under pressure - including the pressure of being in the presence of people who believe they did something wrong - those who have not repented will be tempted to do the exact opposite of repentance. Namely, not merely continuing in sin, but convincing others that it wouldn't be so bad if they did it too.

God will judge those outside the Church - but purge the evil from among you.

Anonymous patrick kelly October 17, 2017 3:25 PM  

My experience in the EO Churches so far has been that the high gates and well weathered stone walls of a very patriarchal high church has mostly been impervious to any significant convergence.

The local pastor and his bishop have complete say and veto power over anything in the services or children's education. Any novel change or variation requires their approval, and at the level of issues like sexuality, marriage or female leadership would require nearly unanimous support at the level of a world wide Ecumenical Council.

Good luck with that.

Blogger Lovekraft October 17, 2017 3:28 PM  

Good reference is Dalrock's blog on this matter.

Anonymous Stickwick October 17, 2017 3:29 PM  

There's a large baptist church in Austin that is known for its female lead pastor. According to her bio, she started in the children/family and music ministries. Before that, she was a public school teacher.

Not surprisingly, the church is heavily focused on women's issues, social and economic justice, and other progressive stuff.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd October 17, 2017 3:35 PM  

@9: ``The only way to force women to avoid single momery is letting them know that if Chad wont pay for the child, there will be no help, and the child will be left to starve.''

No need to let the chilluns starve. Tell Single Mommy that if she wants to be part of Christian fellowship (and get the gibsmedats) she can give the kids up for adoption the day they are born, or the day she falls on hard times. Slut-shaming, and no kids, would go a long way to make single mummery less attractive.

@15: ``You just have to make no bones about the fact that though the child is blameless in this situation the commission of fornication was a vile sin for which the mother should be deeply ashamed.''

Yes, this.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 17, 2017 3:35 PM  

The LDS Chuch is intolerant to the point that single mothers will be ostracized by their friends and family if they don't give their children up to adoption by married Mormon couples. I've seen this happen a few times, and it's extremely difficult for the mothers, but in every case the children have ended up with stable, two-parent families and are probably better off than they would have been otherwise.

Blogger Lovekraft October 17, 2017 3:40 PM  

What defines a successful church? In my mind, it is to go away from our popular vulgar culture, so this means alienating oneself and appearing anti-social and a loner. Their eyes will follow you as you talk quietly to other men to find out where they stand and will assuredly start to circle and prod you.

What chucrch would welcome the warrior who has no interest joining the social get-togethers where frivolousness and facades rule? Who wants to take the fight to the enemy, so to speak.

Anonymous Faceless October 17, 2017 3:47 PM  

The Bible says children will bear the consequences of their parents' sinful behavior. Cain for Eve, line of Cain for Cain, Ham and Canaan, Jonathan for Saul, the anonymous infant for David and Bathsheba, Amnon and Absalom for David, and on and on, not counting the whole of mankind for Adam.

@15 ``You just have to make no bones about the fact that though the child is blameless in this situation the commission of fornication was a vile sin for which the mother should be deeply ashamed.''

The Bible teaches that we can expect that the consequences of sin will be suffering for the children unto several generations.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 17, 2017 3:58 PM  

"The Bible teaches that we can expect that the consequences of sin will be suffering for the children unto several generations."

Similarly, the immivasion of the West is quite obviously God's punishment for the West's libtardery.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 17, 2017 4:00 PM  

Faceless wrote:The Bible says children will bear the consequences of their parents' sinful behavior. Cain for Eve, line of Cain for Cain, Ham and Canaan, Jonathan for Saul, the anonymous infant for David and Bathsheba, Amnon and Absalom for David, and on and on, not counting the whole of mankind for Adam.

@15 ``You just have to make no bones about the fact that though the child is blameless in this situation the commission of fornication was a vile sin for which the mother should be deeply ashamed.''

The Bible teaches that we can expect that the consequences of sin will be suffering for the children unto several generations.


It's not saying we're supposed to punish the descendants ourselves- it explicitly says the opposite. It's one thing to say that alcoholic mothers have retarded children with fetal alcohol syndrom, and another to say we should inflict brain damage on the children of alcoholics.

Anonymous Ain October 17, 2017 4:01 PM  

"The first place it starts is the Sunday Schools"

I personally know at least one witch that used to be a Sunday school teacher.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 17, 2017 4:01 PM  

https://www.gotquestions.org/parents-sin.html

We shouldn't mistake descriptions of reality as prescriptions for our own behavior, that's pure degeneracy.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 17, 2017 4:03 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:@9: ``The only way to force women to avoid single momery is letting them know that if Chad wont pay for the child, there will be no help, and the child will be left to starve.''

No need to let the chilluns starve. Tell Single Mommy that if she wants to be part of Christian fellowship (and get the gibsmedats) she can give the kids up for adoption the day they are born, or the day she falls on hard times. Slut-shaming, and no kids, would go a long way to make single mummery less attractive.

@15: ``You just have to make no bones about the fact that though the child is blameless in this situation the commission of fornication was a vile sin for which the mother should be deeply ashamed.''

Yes, this.



1000%.

Anonymous Faceless October 17, 2017 4:05 PM  

@40

I have not said anything that you are disagreeing with, as I made no recommendation with regard to actions. Again, the Bible has said that the children are impacted by the sins of their parents. It would be not degeneracy but arrogation to yourself of the role of God if you were to decide you were the punisher of sin.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 17, 2017 4:12 PM  

@44, full agreement here, thanks for clarifying.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 17, 2017 4:13 PM  

Whoops, one disagreement: arrogation of the Lord's vengeance is a form of degeneracy.

Anonymous Campus Ministries Are Dangerous October 17, 2017 4:13 PM  

One SJW infestor started her career in my college's Christian campus group. She was educated at the local womens' college, so that was a bad start. Parachurch organizations also probably shouldn't be allowed to use the "We're not a church so it's OK to have women leaders" excuse.

After she left, she got hugely into BLM, and started going on guest pastor tours. Last I heard before I started ignoring her entirely, she was griping about how more churches should invite her because "Asian womens' voices deserve to be heard from the pulpit."

No.

This woman and her blog are a perfect example of the sort of person to keep away from your church - and, if somebody should recommend a person like her be invited to present a compassionate voice for justice-centered Christianity, congratulations! You've found one of your infiltrators.

Does my organization/church/non-profit have white supremacy culture?

Just ask these questions.
•Is it in the United States?
•Was it founded by white people?

Yes to those questions, then yes to white supremacy culture!

Blogger Nate October 17, 2017 4:19 PM  

"When I checked a dozen years ago, seminaries were graduating 7,500 pastoral ministry students "

They were never graduating that many... At least not in terms of real seminaries. That number includes a lot of fake degrees.

Anonymous DissidentRight October 17, 2017 4:22 PM  

Single mothers are fake mothers.

Anonymous CPEG October 17, 2017 4:31 PM  

"Whoops, one disagreement: arrogation of the Lord's vengeance is a form of degeneracy."

Pretty common among our enemies too.

Ezekiel 18 is pretty clear, for those that at least claim to respect the Bible. Sons are only punished for the sins of their parents, if they persist in them. Therefore, white people cannot be punished for slavery, because we ended it.

Anonymous Cassie October 17, 2017 4:34 PM  

"The LDS Chuch is intolerant to the point that single mothers will be ostracized by their friends and family if they don't give their children up to adoption by married Mormon couples. I've seen this happen a few times, and it's extremely difficult for the mothers, but in every case the children have ended up with stable, two-parent families and are probably better off than they would have been otherwise."

Statistically, we know that they are better off. Even though it is enormously difficult and incredibly painful. The problem is with a short -sighted compassion that sees only the pain of the single mother, and discounts the lifelong disadvantage of the child raised in such circumstances. Instead of understanding that the single mother's agonizing pain is as necessary as chemotherapy for cancer, the "compassionate" try to alleviate her pain... and as a result, millions of children suffer.

Single motherhood is cancer.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 4:41 PM  

SJW entry starts anywhere men fail to apply the Word.

* Sunday school - women teaching children must have a set of lessons based on the Bible. Most Sunday school materials out on the web are converged junk.

* Deacons - "deaconesses" are a major entry point even if they aren't ordained. Women always want "more", so deaconesses are the first step to women elders.

* Ecumenical / parachurch orgs that bring bad theology with them, and almost all of them do.

* Wives of officers. Is the pastor's wife "feisty"? Found the SJW entry point. If a church has elders, are any of their wives "feisty" ? Same thing.

There is a clear hierarchy in Scripture. Ignoring it is asking for SJW's to jam themselves in. Any time someone objects to Scriptural hierarchy with "Does the Bible really say that?" you have a serpent on your hands.



Blogger Gordon October 17, 2017 4:44 PM  

Here in Minneapolis all of the mainstream churches have stuck rainbow stripes on their signs, and emphasize that ALL are welcome here. This strikes me the same as the NFL going after women fans. Despite what some think, there are only so many gay men in Minneapolis, and most of them don't want to join a church. But by changing their basic form in an attempt to appeal to gays, they become detestable to normal people. But hey, come to the Friday night coffee klatsch!

Blogger Timmy3 October 17, 2017 4:49 PM  

Children, Youth, Singles, Women’s, Men’s, Couples. Only Family ministry is inherently more traditional since Men should be the head of the household if the man is still with his family. What a mess.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 4:55 PM  

The convergence gained most of its traction over 100 years ago, in the long march to change Theology. That's the necessary pre-condition. At this point, pretty much everyone but the Orthodox have been badly infected. So we're going to need some longer term plans.

A denomination is lost when Women sit on the Deacon board. No one has, to my knowledge, managed to save one after that happens. But that is always the end point of the convergence, as everything else from there is just the slow death march.

It should be noted that a church, with the basic structures outlined in the Bible, is able to prevent convergence, however you have to enforce the rules. See Genesis 3 for why.

Blogger Gospace October 17, 2017 5:03 PM  

Off topic here- but this is the newest post. News that won't surprise any of the regular readers or commenters here.
https://www.channel4.com/news/neo-nazi-national-front-organiser-quits-movement-comes-out-as-gay-kevin-wilshaw-jewish-heritage

Anonymous VFM #7916 October 17, 2017 5:09 PM  

@55

Board seats. Guidance committee. Finance committee. Selection Boards.

The direction a church goes is always set at the top.

Who hires Sunday School teachers?
Who hires assistant pastors?
Who selects the youth ministry leaders?
Who has veto power over what programs the church has and the messages they send?

The same people who always have, and it ain't the pastors, who come and go.

Want to deny entry? Get power, get on committees, get on the governance boards, or be in the position to influence them or their wives.

Blogger Abdul October 17, 2017 5:27 PM  

@14 Guitar Mass.

All through the 70’s and 80’s there was always some Van Driessen type in charge of the music.

Then our parish got a Cassavant organ.

Anonymous Ages October 17, 2017 5:31 PM  

When they got rid of head coverings, it was all downhill from there. Not even joking.

All historic and ancient Christian art shows women wearing head coverings in church (as well as daily life). That "liberation" was the first crack in the dam.

Ladies, I say this with all due respect: if it was good enough for the women saints—of which there are many—it is good enough for you.

Anonymous Ages October 17, 2017 5:36 PM  

There is a giant shortage of mainline ministers. Seminaries are not putting out nearly enough ministers to keep up.

Because they are lowering standards. It's a vicious cycle. Where are vocations steady and growing? The apostolic eastern churches and the trad Catholics. Where there is a strong masculine sense of tradition, there is stability. There is Christ.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 5:42 PM  

Another entry point at the denomination level: permanent committees. They don't answer to anyone, not really. That's where the little cracks appear first denominationally, with the "let's all just get along and do Good Works for Judeo-Christ" people trimming away at clear Scripture. It's perfect for SJW's, like a stagnant pond is for mosquitoes.

Anonymous Ages October 17, 2017 5:42 PM  

As we approach the 500th terrible anniversary of the Protestant rebellion, we find that Protestantism has reached its logical conclusion.

They rebelled against Rome. Then they rebelled against one another, into ever shrinking denominations, until now, when there is almost nothing left to rebel against. There is no integrity or standard even within Protestant denominations. It is every parish for itself.

And now the Protestant parishes are dissolving into so-called house """""churches"""""", and those are collapsing into nothingness. The final form of Protestantism, the individual alone with his Bible alone, is being manifest before our eyes. And nothing could be further from Christianity.

Of course, the Protestants learned all about rebellion from Rome, their Mother Church. Peace, stability, safety, and truth will only be found when people swallow their pride and return to the Church of the Fathers.

Blogger WynnLloyd October 17, 2017 5:46 PM  

Woe to the parish where one of these SJWs gets on the liturgy committee, which is an absurd committee to begin with. Though the Novus Ordo is arguably already converged from the perspective of most trads.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 17, 2017 5:46 PM  

@59 And if that's not a good enough reason, it's also Islamophobic for women not to cover their hair.

Anonymous Avalanche October 17, 2017 5:55 PM  

@9 "The only way to force women to avoid single momery is letting them know that if Chad wont pay for the child, there will be no help, and the child will be left to starve."

Yup. Gotta agree. As long as there is a WAY to cuckold worthy men by 'sleeping with' the state, way too many women will do so! So, we need to both stop women AND stop the state!

Blogger Latigo3 October 17, 2017 6:15 PM  

I just had a conversation with another pastor about women ministers, and what I realized is most people are afraid to sound rude. Either way it needs to be said, even when people bring up examples like Deborah, I simply ask them how many female High-Priests there were?
Women preachers, not a good thing for any church. Our organization is about 98% male ministers and I am glad for it, though I do see a concerted effort in some of the private pages of Facebook. So I am very vocal about it.
At my church, I make sure that we have men lead the service, even though we have more female singers than men.
Last year, I had one women that I had inherited on our leadership team finally leave our church. She had her husband cucked, but she could not dislodge me. It was amazing to find out what she was trying to do behind my back.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 6:23 PM  

@62 Ages
As we approach the 500th terrible anniversary of the Protestant rebellion, we find that Protestantism has reached its logical conclusion.

Dude, take that somewhere else. The 30 Years War is over.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 6:28 PM  

@66 Latigo3
Women preachers, not a good thing for any church.

Women preachers, not a good thing because not a Biblical.

1 Timothy 2:12 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

All the "Muh DEBORAH" doesn't erase the plain text, either.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 6:40 PM  

@67 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

The Godwin Corollary for Christians in Online Spaces: As forum posts increase, as X goes to infinity, the likelihood of rearguing the Reformation goes to 1.

At this point, I blame the Jesuits for that. Converged Catholic organizations always want to establish a physical theocratic papacy. They hide behind "the Church", but it always pretty clear it's about Power and not about Faith. Sadly, mostly its down to people defending their identity not the theology.

Which is why I like to point out: We'd all be Roman Catholic still, in the West, if the RCC had bothered to execute their heretics in the 14th to 16th Centuries. The heretics running the place meant a break was a given.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 6:42 PM  

@68 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

And Deborah was a prophet, not the Judge. Prophetess is a role specifically allowed for Women, but that takes some real Faith. Good luck with a bunch of moderns.

Anonymous BBGKB October 17, 2017 6:58 PM  

Gay jew leaves British National Front after sabotaging for decades
http://www.towleroad.com/2017/10/kevin-wilshaw/

Blogger GraceIronwood October 17, 2017 7:29 PM  

Nate wrote:"The first place it starts is the Sunday Schools, because it is always hard to find the teachers and women are much more inclined to take on the role of educating children"

Ding ding ding

However the biggest weak point right now is at the top. There is a giant shortage of mainline ministers. Seminaries are not putting out nearly enough ministers to keep up. So standards have to be continually lowered... it becomes a huge wide open door for SJWs to walk through... and they immediately have power at their disposal.

No matter what blocks are laid in front of the SJW would-be pastors... whatever oaths they are asked to take... they simply defeat these protections by lying.

For example the UMC requires all ministers to take an oath that they are not a practicing homosexual when they are frocked.

The SJW simply lies... and says to himself "I wasn't practicing right then. I waited till I got home to celebrate!"



I bumped into the head of the Theology department at my university - it was a middle-aged lesbian.

OpenID cyrus83 October 17, 2017 7:35 PM  

It can be a problem with Sunday school, but the problem more often starts at the top, as it usually does with heresy generally. The mainline protestants didn't go off the deep end because of bad Sunday school teaching, they went off the deep end because too many of their clergy were educated by lefties in academia.

Sunday school can be an issue, but it often depends on the director and what kind of materials are used. Our director does not seem to be the SJW type so a number of men do volunteer (probably close to 50/50 on a gender split) and I have had no issues teaching traditional doctrine.

Lay leadership is usually where the problem will come in from below. SJW types will try to lead from various councils and ministries, particularly in the areas of worship, music, and anything else that has a power element. Ushers, not being a "power" role are one of the few things they tend to leave alone and to the men.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 7:36 PM  

@71 BBGKB

At this point, I have to ask: what is so appealing about Neo-Nazism to Gay Jews? This is beyond the first occurrence, and that opens up far more than a few questions about why they still exist.

Blogger tuberman October 17, 2017 7:47 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:@71 BBGKB

At this point, I have to ask: what is so appealing about Neo-Nazism to Gay Jews? This is beyond the first occurrence, and that opens up far more than a few questions about why they still exist.


I suppose I always think, Paid Operatives. No proof though, so just a conspiracy theory

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 7:49 PM  

@73 cyrus83

Mainline Protestants got converged first by the seminaries being captured. First point of failure.

Then they were able to take over the top-level organizations. Second point of failure.

The deacon boards came last, and it was upwards of 50 years later. The Mainline Protestants were mostly doomed by 1900 to 1920. It just took years for the rot to creep all the way down from some seminaries around New England to the normal churches in other parts of the country.

It's a point a lot of Christians don't want to accept. The problem stems back 100s of years, but the devil works in the information arbitrage business. And business is busy.

Blogger tuberman October 17, 2017 7:51 PM  

Converged churches, and the state of education, sometimes get me down. Then I precede to look at a bigger picture and put things into perspective.

Anonymous Roman October 17, 2017 7:56 PM  

Moldbug called it. This is all the fault of John Calvin and the Protestant rebellion. All roads back to sanity go through Rome.

Anonymous Katt Brenner October 17, 2017 7:59 PM  

It starts with the acceptance of the (so-called) Enlightenment / French Revolutionary values of Liberty ("YOU can't tell ME what to do or what to think"), Equality ("EVERYONE has a right to participate in ..."), and Fraternity ("I'm okay, You're okay") as the underlying principles of the society.

Blogger Elizabeth October 17, 2017 8:03 PM  

torpedo wrote:> others deserve help only for their child's sake.

So if they know in advance that you'll help them raise and finance Chad's child, even when Chad refuses to pay child support, why should they avoid getting themselves knocked up by Chad anyway?

The "we have to help them in the name of the children" attitude is the major reason single momery exists in the first place.

Why marry a low-SMV beta and bear his low-SMV child, when you can get knocked up by a high-SMV Chad and let the low-SMV beta help you "in the name of the children".

The only way to force women to avoid single momery is letting them know that if Chad wont pay for the child, there will be no help, and the child will be left to starve.

As soon as any kind of "help" can be counted on, Chad+help becomes a better option than low-SMV-beta+marriage.


Right-to-Life activists fear that women will have abortions if they are unable to collect government assistance.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 8:08 PM  

@75 tuberman

The interesting thing about being able to talk about Identity is that certain commonalities start to be obvious. Obviously, that's why stereotypes exist, but stereotypes can also be deceptive as they're structured from your own cultural understanding of the group. Not necessarily the proper understanding of the other group.

Which is to say that Jews are big on tactics, low on strategy with a large dose of misdirection. Thus, however "progressive" Jews like to claim they are, they also understand that gay Jews are dead-ends for the Tribe. Neo-Nazism thus acts as an attractor to gay Jews, running them out of the social groups and otherwise auto-ostracization function.

It's literally to most Jews' personal interest for the Neo-Nazis to still exist. It's a Baptist & Bootleggers thing.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 8:22 PM  

@74 Looking Glass
At this point, I have to ask: what is so appealing about Neo-Nazism to Gay Jews?

That Hugo Boss fashion statement gotta be part of it.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 8:25 PM  

@78 Roman
(((Moldbug))) called it.

FIFY.
Dude, moldbuggery is so boringly wrong.

Blogger tuberman October 17, 2017 8:25 PM  

LG

"t's literally to most Jews' personal interest for the Neo-Nazis to still exist."

Yes, I knew that even as a Paleo-Conservative in the 1990's, and I was not particularly anti-Jewish, but red-pilled enough to know they loved their victim status, and Neo-Nazis existence was a help. Therefore, paid or not, the guy was an infiltrator, there to egg them on and keep up their existence, while undermining anything worthwhile.

Blogger Daniel Bendele October 17, 2017 8:28 PM  

Anyone know of a non-converged church near Alexandria, VA? Just moved to the area and having trouble finding anything. Open to any denomination.

Blogger tuberman October 17, 2017 8:31 PM  

" It's a Baptist & Bootleggers thing."

I got a big kick out of that, white lightning, fast cars, and quick money for poor Baptists.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 8:33 PM  

@76 Looking Glass
Mainline Protestants got converged first by the seminaries being captured. First point of failure.

John Machem is just one example of how this played out. First, resisting libtards in Seminary. Then tried to force the denomination to hold to its own standard. Eventually forming a parallel denomination, which still exists.

The libtardation of American churches has been going on for over 100 years. It just took the boomertard KumBaYah guitar strummers to make it really obvious.

John Gresham Machen (/ˈdʒɒn ˈɡrɛsəm ˈmeɪtʃən/; July 28, 1881 – January 1, 1937) was an American Presbyterian theologian in the early 20th century. He was the Professor of New Testament at Princeton Seminary between 1906 and 1929, and led a conservative revolt against modernist theology at Princeton and formed Westminster Theological Seminary as a more orthodox alternative. As the Northern Presbyterian Church continued to reject conservative attempts to enforce faithfulness to the Westminster Confession, Machen led a small group of conservatives out of the church to form the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. When the northern Presbyterian church (PCUSA) rejected his arguments during the mid-1920s and decided to reorganize Princeton Seminary to create a liberal school, Machen took the lead in founding Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia (1929) where he taught New Testament until his death. His continued opposition during the 1930s to liberalism in his denomination's foreign missions agencies led to the creation of a new organization, The Independent Board for Presbyterian Foreign Missions (1933). The trial, conviction and suspension from the ministry of Independent Board members, including Machen, in 1935 and 1936 provided the rationale for the formation in 1936 of the OPC.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 17, 2017 8:36 PM  

@80 Elizabeth
Right-to-Life activists fear that women will have abortions if they are unable to collect government assistance.

Looks like a hostage situation to me.

"Gimme money or the baby gets it", that's motherly love right there.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 17, 2017 8:42 PM  

@87 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

He was one of the stories I was referencing. Though the same effect happened in most of the Mainline denomination of the period. But the man was insightful: against the Department of Education & Prohibition. Well ahead of his time!

Also, the Nazis pretty much managed to ruin fashion for a couple of decades. We can blame the 60s through 80s on them.


@86 tuberman

I think "Baptists & Bootleggers" is a key historical event to understand the operations of a society. https://infogalactic.com/info/Bootleggers_and_Baptists It ties into moral, social, religious and economic analysis. Plus it's also hilarious.

As to the "Gay Jews love Neo-Nazism", maybe we should just call it what it is. Neo-Nazism is a gay Jew honeypot that serves other interests as well.

Blogger Koanic October 17, 2017 9:01 PM  

Your churches were converged when you suffered a whore to live and a bastard to enter. Do I need to draw you an epigenetic diagram? (Yes.)

Blogger Unknown October 17, 2017 9:48 PM  

1. Never use Judges as a source for good practices (Deborah) in the church. The key verses to understand the book comes at Judges 17:6 and Judges 21:5. The author of Judges is quoting Deuteronomy 12. Figure out the point for yourself.

2. Convergence begins in the seminary and ends 30 years later when those men control the church's leadership and board positions. I know of only one church body which managed to turn the tide and it was the laypeople, not the clergy that did it. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod's St. Louis Seminary had become infested with SJWs (before we knew they were SJWs) in the 1950s and 60s. Graduates had begun to enter leadership positions throughout the LCMS by the time the lay people began to wonder what exactly was going on. At the 1973 LCMS Convention the lay people rose up and condemned most of the St. Louis seminary's professors. Those professors, most of the students and a large number of clergy from the LCMS left the denomination to create the liberal AELC which later merged to form the current ELCA. The ELCA is in collapse. Ironically, many in the ELCA now blames the LCMS for kicking the heretics out because they all moved to the ELCA, moved into leadership positions and led the ELCA to convergence and failure. On a side note, the other LCMS seminary, in Fort Wayne, had its kerfuffle when the seminary president fired a tenured professor for teaching women's ordination in 1989. That led to a lawsuit against the president and the LCMS on grounds of "academic freedom", etc. The traditional leadership of that seminary held strong. Today, the LCMS Fort Wayne seminary is considered "hard right", "fascist", "intolerant" by most of North American Protestantism. It has a different reputation in international Christianity where believers see it as a beacon of orthodox, traditional faith.

Blogger Elder Son October 17, 2017 9:50 PM  

There is no true Church but the Church of Jesus Christ. And no wonder "the Church" is such a mess. All these denominations competing for flesh, rather than the doctrine of Christ. Perverting the gospel to win flesh to pay the bills.

Blogger Elder Son October 17, 2017 10:12 PM  

And, if anyone understood Jesus conversation with Peter at Caesarea Philippi and understood the relevance of Mt. Hermon, and Christs transfiguration upon it, one would understand that Peter is not the "first Pope", nor is the "Catholic Church", "The Church".

Blogger Jew613 October 17, 2017 11:03 PM  

So how did it get to this stage? Why didn't the various denominations excommunicate the heretics, declare the converged seminaries teachers of a false religion and denounce all their works?

Blogger Elder Son October 17, 2017 11:19 PM  

Tax exempt foundations infiltrating every institution of America, From government, secular, and religious.

Anonymous Jack Amok October 17, 2017 11:34 PM  

Be particularly wary of any pastor who moves into leadership from either the singles or women's ministry.

Not that I disagree, but from a staffing standpoint, how do you get decent men into those positions if it will taint their future prospects?

Anonymous TS October 17, 2017 11:45 PM  

There will be no tower of babel 2.0/ NWD (New World Disorder) without a converged church. It goes hand in hand.

Anonymous Kenneth October 17, 2017 11:51 PM  

> "Right-to-Life activists fear that women will have abortions if they are unable to collect government assistance."

@88 "Looks like a hostage situation to me."

A detailed overview of this situation:

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/mothers-embryos-and-hostages-oh-my/

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/blinders-full-of-women/

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/how-not-to-handle-a-hostage-crisis/

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/pro-life-stockholm-syndrome/

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2016/04/15/how-to-end-political-conflict-over-abortion/

Anonymous Icicle October 18, 2017 2:00 AM  

The LDS Chuch is intolerant to the point that single mothers will be ostracized by their friends and family if they don't give their children up to adoption by married Mormon couples.

That's because of Sealing.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Sealing_(Mormonism)

Anonymous Andy6159 October 18, 2017 9:36 AM  

This matches what I've observed.
The children of SJW 'Catholics' can be 'good people' without attending mass and confession, providing personal charity, or obeying church teaching on fornication, contraception, abortion and divorce so they end up non-practicing...

Blogger Cail Corishev October 18, 2017 10:03 AM  

[LDS] single mothers will be ostracized by their friends and family if they don't give their children up to adoption by married Mormon couples

I was talking to a conservative man who was admiring the way the Amish take care of their own. He said if a man dies and leaves behind a widow and children, the community will support her. I said yes, they will, and one way might be by matching her up with a good new husband. He was appalled, and said they don't "force" people into marriages. That's not quite what I meant; I just meant if they have a widow with children and a marriageable widower, perhaps, they would encourage matters to take their course. Or say there are several single men in the community, they'd encourage her to make herself available after the proper mourning period. I don't think they'd be very happy if she started playing the usual single-momma game of holding out for Mr. Perfect while enjoying her independence, not while the rest of the community supports her and her kids. That's not what the bible tells them to do, either.

But that's the problem with a lot of modern "traditional" conservatives: they pick and choose, so the "traditional community that takes care of its own" part sounds great, but the "you may not be free to live however you like" part they're not so interested in.

Anonymous BBGKB October 18, 2017 10:22 AM  

At this point, I have to ask: what is so appealing about Neo-Nazism to Gay Jews? This is beyond the first occurrence

While a Nazi in NYC could make good money letting gay jews lick his boots I am pretty sure the guy in question was a saboteur possible paid by Israel. Much like the local organizer for the Unite the Right Rally, Jason Kessler- jew Obama/Clinton supporter+ former CNN employee.

Anonymous BBGKB October 18, 2017 11:15 AM  

"Hello fellow (((straight))) people "Hello fellow (((straight white))) people..."

41 that's the problem with Vox. He can't move beyond the whig left-right paradigm, which is primarily defined in economic terms

What you don't understand is that K selected people like high quality long lasting goods. You think cheap stuff from low trust societies is economics instead of arbitrage of low quality goods from low trust cultures (((sold))) in high trust markets

Related: Gay take on Gay jew leaves British National Front after sabotaging for decades
http://www.towleroad.com/2017/10/kevin-wilshaw/

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd October 18, 2017 11:34 AM  

@Jack Amok: ``Be particularly wary of any pastor who moves into leadership from either the singles or women's ministry.

Not that I disagree, but from a staffing standpoint, how do you get decent men into those positions if it will taint their future prospects? ''


Should those positions even exist?

Anonymous Pitchfork Rebel October 18, 2017 2:04 PM  

@7

Accountants? Seriously?

Besides Judas.


Judas was the treasurer; not the accountant.

Anonymous Pitchfork Rebel October 18, 2017 2:20 PM  

@53 Gordon

"Here in Minneapolis all of the mainstream churches have stuck rainbow stripes on their signs, and emphasize that ALL are welcome here. This strikes me the same as the NFL going after women fans."

Because women never played football seriously; they've never drew a bead on somebody and then found themselves gasping for air and wondering if anybody got the license no. of the truck that just hit them, they think jerseys worn in sizes that make them hang from narrow shoulders like nylon nightshirts are fashion statements. Of course, like most fashion statements-women wearing oversized jerseys-involve huge expenditures of money-something women will do at the drop of a hat for clothing.

The only dose of reality that's come out of the NFL in years was when Cam Newton made the remark about women discussing pass routes; we see how fast that was shut down- now back to selling oversized jerseys to females that think they understand football without every having played.

Anonymous Pennywise October 18, 2017 4:06 PM  

Churches aren't "converged". They have adherents to a particular faith. Some people simply disagree with how others practice that faith or interpret the Bible. It's been that way for centuries.

Blogger Lovekraft October 18, 2017 7:06 PM  

Chuck Swindoll, pastor, uses the term 'accommodation' to describe convergence.

"In the beginning, the church was a fellowship of men and women centered on the living Christ.

Then the Church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy.

Then it moved to Rome where it became and institution.

Next it moved to Europe where it became a culture.

And finally it moved to America where it has become an enterprise."

- Richard C Halverson, Chaplain of the United States Senate.

from sermon "Discouraging Signs of a Dying Ministry, Part 1"

https://www.insight.org/broadcasts/library






Anonymous Pennywise October 18, 2017 7:14 PM  

Indeed, an enterprise...of culture and philosophy as an institution.

Blogger Lovekraft October 18, 2017 8:15 PM  

@ Pennywise:

It is an interesting analysis. What comes after 'institution'? Can it return to its original roots. How does Islam play into it? Will the world allow it to evolve/revert to a purer stage?

I think I am and always have been at the 'Greek' stage: wanting to learn about Christ's teachings, rather than the structure behind it (which are subject to corruption/manipulation).

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 18, 2017 10:20 PM  

@106 Creepy Clown Concern Troll
Churches aren't "converged".

Yeah, they are. Thanks for driving by. Pick up your check.

Anonymous Pennywise October 19, 2017 10:30 AM  

Those who believe in God need not be virtue signaled to death with your charges of "convergence" and "Churchian".

In the end, God, not you, will be the ultimate judge.

Blogger Matt October 23, 2017 12:21 PM  

It starts in the seminaries which have been infiltrated with liberals (theologically) since the early 20th century. It seems to me that the liberals like the culture started with modernist/marxist presuppositions in their attacks on Christianity and have now easily moved with the culture to postmodernist feminist gnostic swj activism. I agree with others though that it's the women's ministries in more conservative/traditional churches where the sjw postmodernism is creeping in, especially in the area of the homosexuality and feminism and the rejection of Biblical standards for belief and life.

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