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Saturday, October 21, 2017

Smart people are crazy

In fairness, it may be that it is only having to be around stupid people that makes us that way:
The stereotype of a tortured genius may have a basis in reality after a new study found that people with higher IQs are more at risk of developing mental illness.

A team of US researchers surveyed 3,715 members of American Mensa with an IQ higher than 130. An “average IQ score” or “normal IQ score” can be defined as a score between 85 and 115.

The team asked the Mensa members to report whether they had been diagnoses with mental illnesses, including autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

They were also asked to report mood and anxiety disorders, or whether the suspected they suffered from any mental illnesses that had yet to be diagnosed, as well as physiological diseases, like food allergies and asthma. After comparing this with the statistical national average for each illness they found that those in the Mensa community had considerably higher rates of varying disorders.
In my experience, the more highly intelligent people are, the more unstable they tend to be, particularly if they are women. The problem, I suspect, is that smart people are more able to rationalize their aberrant behaviors and justify their departures from observable reality, thereby leading to a vicious circle where their disorders are reinforced.

I find narcissists of the non-malignant variety to be some of the most stable smart people I know, presumably because their lack of interest in other people tends to render their social interactions less confusing and angst-inducing. The more sensitive and insecure an intelligent person is, the more likely that he is going to find himself regularly buffeted by social pressures that he simply cannot understand.

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101 Comments:

Blogger Phat Repat October 21, 2017 8:06 AM  

And sometimes a rose is just a rose...

Anonymous Steve October 21, 2017 8:10 AM  

I find narcissists of the non-malignant variety to be some of the most stable smart people I know, presumably because their lack of interest in other people tends to render their social interactions less confusing and angst-inducing

Agreed. And the insecure and introverted are hard work.

As I keep telling my wife, though, it's not really narcissism if you actually are the greatest man in the world.

Anonymous Wilbur Hassenfus October 21, 2017 8:11 AM  

How’d they control for the fact that only insecure losers join Mensa?

I don’t believe that’s the whole deal but they did pick a group that weirdos select themselves into.

Anonymous Steve October 21, 2017 8:12 AM  

Wilbur - not true. There's also plenty of bowtied spergs in Mensa.

Blogger ZhukovG October 21, 2017 8:19 AM  

The post that spoke of the communication difficulties involved with persons of different IQ's would certainly be relevant. Particularly in regard to the isolation that a person of exceptional intelligence can suffer from.

The communication barrier could cause any number of psychological problems and would certainly aggravate any existing ones.

Blogger Timmy3 October 21, 2017 8:23 AM  

Smarts should be used to solve problems, not reinforce bad habits. I once saw an episode of hoarders where an obvious intelligent woman justify her hoarding habits right down to being kicked out of her place. Reality has no relation to their views.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 21, 2017 8:24 AM  

The problem, I suspect, is that smart people are more able to rationalize their aberrant behaviors and justify their departures from observable reality, thereby leading to a vicious circle where their disorders are reinforced.

To paraphrase Common Filth: "All that high IQ and we do nothing but rationalize our own sin."

Blogger Nathan October 21, 2017 8:25 AM  

ADD, ADHD and now ASD are categories created with the twin desires of peddling pharmaceuticals and pathologizing masculinity, labeling kids who are bored in class -- thanks to dumb and midwit teachers -- as defective and lacking focus, even though most of them can exert unusual sustained attention on ideas or projects they find interesting.

If you take those Fake News 'illnesses' out of the count, I suspect most of the remaining gap is that intelligent people are more aware of both the variety of their internal experiences and the gulf between their expectations and reality.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 21, 2017 8:27 AM  

THIS
THIS
THIS

Anonymous Athor Pel October 21, 2017 8:27 AM  

The less empathy you have the easier it is to deal with people. The more annoying the other person the more the lack of empathy helps.

They don't try to figure out what you're feeling so why should you try to figure what they are feeling. Just stop worrying about it.

Of course if knowing what they are feeling helps you then knock yourself out and use it like the tool it is. But don't let that knowledge alter your normal self interested behavior. If you don't care about yourself nobody else will either.

I've found the empathy that I've acted on in my life to be more of a negative than a positive.

Blogger Koanic October 21, 2017 8:28 AM  

In addition to the above, note that the animal psyche has enjoyed evolutionary selection for orders of magnitude more time than human reason. The high IQ human brain may be considered a beta version, and one unlikely to make it to stable release. It is particularly susceptible to civilizational dysgenics.

Blogger Johnny October 21, 2017 8:36 AM  

Nathan wrote:ADD, ADHD and now ASD are categories created with the twin desires of peddling pharmaceuticals and pathologizing masculinity, labeling kids who are bored in class --

I agree. But it does seem to be that smart people are more irritating. And in my personal family the smarter ones trend toward more eccentric behavior. The divide between agreeable but stupid, and smart but crazy is fairly strong.

And yeah. Mensa is not a random distribution of people, and so data collected does not automatically apply to the general population.

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2017 8:41 AM  

It would have been interesting for the study to separate religious/agnostic/atheist categories.

Anonymous Lara Mycroft October 21, 2017 8:42 AM  

@3 Wilbur said:
How’d they control for the fact that only insecure losers join Mensa?

I'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's famous quote: "Power is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't."

Blogger pyrrhus October 21, 2017 8:43 AM  

"An “average IQ score” or “normal IQ score” can be defined as a score between 85 and 115."

Gotta love journalists. IQ 85, ineducable, suitable only for manual jobs...IQ 115, decent college level....But both are "average".

Anonymous NH October 21, 2017 8:44 AM  

VD,

Given your IQ and INTJ standards, how do you stay sane and not succumb to feeling depressed with the number of projects you launch and people you need to work with?

Asking for a "friend."

Blogger pyrrhus October 21, 2017 8:44 AM  

And Mensa is the lowest level of high IQ societies, so only the entry level of craziness...

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2017 8:46 AM  


Jordan Peterson claims mental illness is a subset of the complexity problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW_zpi2hmI4

Anonymous Killua October 21, 2017 8:47 AM  

I'm nuts, baby, I'm mad
The craziest friend that you've ever had
You think I'm psycho, you think I'm gone
Tell the psychiatrist something is wrong
Over the bend, entirely bonkers
You like me best when I'm off my rocker
Tell you a secret, I'm not alarmed
So what if I'm crazy? The best people are


"Mad Hatter", Melanie Martinez

Anonymous Stoa October 21, 2017 9:02 AM  

Grady Towers said as much in a Gift of Fire article in the 1980s. It seemed intuitive then and now.

Blogger James Dixon October 21, 2017 9:04 AM  

There's only one proper response to this article: Well, duh!

> How’d they control for the fact that only insecure losers join Mensa?

The didn't.

Blogger Johnny October 21, 2017 9:05 AM  

I suspect there is no evolutionary advantage to high intelligence and maybe being really smart is actually selected against. The benefit comes from the group that has some really smart people mixed in. They assist the group overall and thus promote their general genetic type even if they don't reproduce in excess of what is ordinary for the group, and perhaps not as much.

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2017 9:06 AM  

Wilbur Hassenfus wrote:How’d they control for the fact that only insecure losers join Mensa?



You mean like VD?

Blogger tuberman October 21, 2017 9:08 AM  

Yeah, secure people do not join Mensa, they go out and do challenges. Okay, we really go out and play, even as adults.

Blogger Mad Dad October 21, 2017 9:09 AM  

HIQ might be more prone to debug any defect down to it's root cause, so they just discover more things like food allergies, anxiety, etc. Normies are satisfied with "coffee makes me a might nervous when ah drink it" and either don't have the means to get diagnosed or just don't care enough to. The control group should have studied people across the spectrum rather than just compare to a national average.

But I do suffer from over half the afflictions mentioned in the article.

Blogger tuberman October 21, 2017 9:14 AM  

Johnny wrote:I suspect there is no evolutionary advantage to high intelligence and maybe being really smart is actually selected against. The benefit comes from the group that has some really smart people mixed in. They assist the group overall and thus promote their general genetic type even if they don't reproduce in excess of what is ordinary for the group, and perhaps not as much.

I dunno. I. Newton was smart enough to hide out a long time from the plague, meanwhile creating The Calculus.

Blogger 1337kestrel October 21, 2017 9:14 AM  

A social club for smart people seems like a good idea on surface. Mensa does have an official purpose, but it's divorced from day to day activities. So it's almost as if the organization starts out in a converged state.

I attended one Mensa event when I was a teenager and I don't remember much of it. Their newsletter was perfectly reasonable. It was basically what you would expect from an organization dedicated to having a high IQ. But there wasn't much focus on their mission to increase human intelligence.

Anonymous James Parliament October 21, 2017 9:27 AM  

Well, well said.

Blogger wreckage October 21, 2017 9:27 AM  

"But there wasn't much focus on their mission to increase human intelligence."

Stop showing up to club meetings and aspiring to high status, rather, find a high IQ mate and raise a huge tribe of high IQ kids.

They'd be outlawed if they said that.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 21, 2017 9:30 AM  

The issue starts at the neurophysiological level. Higher IQ means that a person "thinks" more, not just better. This means more energy is used along certain receptor lines, a bit like running a Computer with an Overclock. If the person with the higher IQ also doesn't have the associated ability to cope with the added neurological strain, then they'll run into problems.

That's before personality type starts adding more or less stress. Everyone has a breaking point, and the higher IQ'd can rationalize that they're not over the line, even if they are. Which creates a situation where the "smart people" have both a higher IQ and a higher mental strain genetic factors. Without the latter, you're looking at some psychosis.

Related, but there's not such thing as "eccentric" behavior among the very intelligent. The weirder things they do are actually learned behaviors, normally to drive more energy into the brain. This is the reason some of the better known Mathematics programs have round rooms. They aren't pacing because they're "eccentric" and that's just what they do. They're walking in circles because their body is trying to provide enough energy to cope with the heavy demand that's being placed upon it.

Anonymous b October 21, 2017 9:30 AM  

It is apparent that all humans are crazy.
Sin debilitates the mind.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 21, 2017 9:30 AM  

U said IQ. Me smart.

Blogger Robert Coble October 21, 2017 9:32 AM  

Link: Touched with Fire: Manic-Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament

Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison (NOT to be confused with N. K. Jemisin) is a distinguished psychologist.

I was given a copy to read by my older brother, who was considered to be an eccentric "genius" musician, and who underwent a period of 7 years (in and out of mental hospitals) where he was considered to be manic-depressive. "Eccentric" and musician, certainly; "genius" was not proven. (Our mother knew the individual IQ scores for all four of us boys, but refused to tell us what they were. She herself was considered by others to be a "genius" and an artist and musician. The only comparison she ever did was to state that I had the highest of all four boys. It has never mattered to me, so I've never bothered to find out what it actually was.)

I no longer have the book, but IIRC, musicians (and other professions with "artistic" temperaments) were at least 6 times more likely to have some classified mental "disorder."

In my professional career as a software engineer, I've worked with people with measured IQs up to 185 in the engineering field. Maybe there is something that attracts more stable people to engineering (being that engineering is grounded in reality), but none of them exhibited any particular mental "disorders" as far as I could determine.

There are some interesting stories. One fellow (IQ 185; double Masters degrees in mathematics and statistics) was hired to create a new math model for the 688-class submarine simulator. After working on the model for about 2 months, he came running into my office one day, very excited - and worried. When I asked for an explanation, he said there was a discontinuity in his equations and he worried that his equations could not be used in the math model. It seems there was a discontinuity at the speed of sound. I dryly remarked that I didn't think it would be a problem for a submarine under water. He went away, reassured that he didn't have to re-work his equations. (For those who don't "get it," the speed of sound underwater is 1531 m/s in sea water at room temperatures or 5023 ft/s, or 0.95 MILES/second). If that doesn't give you a good idea of why it's not a problem, then ask an engineer (or a MENSA member) to explain it to you.)

Blogger wreckage October 21, 2017 9:32 AM  

If high IQ indicates increased neural connectivity, it might actually BE a disorder, at least in some cases.

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III October 21, 2017 9:32 AM  

>Grady Towers said as much in a Gift of Fire article in the 1980s.

I was just about to post this. I'd imagine a lot of people here stumbled across it at some point and had it hit close to home.

http://www.worlddreambank.org/O/OUTSIDRS.HTM


Anonymous VFM #6306 October 21, 2017 9:33 AM  

NH, Vox is not INTJ.

Blogger wreckage October 21, 2017 9:34 AM  

@33, I'm not sure anyone needs a genius to explain to them why submarines are unlikely to be traveling at 1.5 kilometers per second...

Anonymous b October 21, 2017 9:35 AM  

Related - your unconscious mind is really in control

Anonymous Wilbur Hassenfus October 21, 2017 9:39 AM  

@Steve

Indeed — the bowtied spergs must not be denied!

Blogger tuberman October 21, 2017 9:42 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Johnny October 21, 2017 9:45 AM  

>>I suspect there is no evolutionary advantage to high intelligence... (to quote myself)

The general argument for why Ashkenazi Jews are smarter than the rest is that for a number of generations the circumstance they were in favored the more scholarly and therefore the smarter ones at the expense of the rest. If this is true then it is an example of how easy it is for an entire population to become more intelligent in that it was accomplished in what was, on the evolutionary scale of things, with a tiny population over an exceedingly short period of time. And as the rest of us are not as smart as Ashkenazi Jews, apparently the ordinary circumstance does not genetically select for higher intelligence.

I am also suspicious that the more complex civilizations tend to lower the IQ of their members, along with other detrimental genetic effects. On a tribal level the organization is commonly biological. It is family first, then clan, then tribe. Thus the more useful members promote the interests of their genetically close relatives. Once the character of the organization is no longer biological, as in an army or an industrial society, that linkage is severed and those who contribute more promote the interests of the group instead of their relatives. And should their contribution make reproduction less likely (as, say, in the Roman Army) they end up selecting against their own genetic type.

Civilization, it ruins everything.

Anonymous Wilbur Hassenfus October 21, 2017 9:47 AM  

What if they put a VTec sticker and a big spoiler on it? And a can?

Blogger Duke Norfolk October 21, 2017 9:54 AM  

Robert Coble wrote:If that doesn't give you a good idea of why it's not a problem, then ask an engineer (or a MENSA member) to explain it to you.)

No, don't even bother, you're a moron and won't care.

Just go back to endlessly surfing Facebook, while asking people online what the meaning/spelling of certain words are (among other moronic things to do).

Blogger tuberman October 21, 2017 9:56 AM  


The important question would be :

How can a high IQ person get actual intelligence?

Very smart people, it turns out need to be very anti-fragile. They need to realize that "failure" is part of the process of movement, testing, failure or partial mistakes and observing that, and responding by changes in approach and worldview. There need to be an awareness that even as they adapt to the world, the world itself is changing.

A lot of all mental health problem could be put down to fears, of life, failure, and not living up to what everyone says they should.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd October 21, 2017 10:05 AM  

Wilbur Hassenfus wrote:How’d they control for the fact that only insecure losers join Mensa?
Steve wrote:Wilbur - not true. There's also plenty of bowtied spergs in Mensa.

Those two groups have cosiderable overlap. Especially in Mensa.

Anonymous Avalanche October 21, 2017 10:15 AM  

@2 "As I keep telling my wife, though, it's not really narcissism if you actually are the greatest man in the world."

My husband used to tease: it ain't braggin' if it's true!

Blogger Doug Cranmer October 21, 2017 10:20 AM  

That's why I like this site.
As smart as I am I still fuck up and Vox explains it clearly why.

He's even polite while he hands your head back to you.

Lots to learn even at my late age.

Blogger Matthew October 21, 2017 10:23 AM  

Looking Glass wrote:Higher IQ means that a person "thinks" more, not just better. This means more energy is used along certain receptor lines, a bit like running a Computer with an Overclock.

Sometimes I wish I had a heat sink for my head.

Anonymous Avalanche October 21, 2017 10:23 AM  

@42 "What if they put a VTec sticker and a big spoiler on it? And a can?"

OOH! And a big-old poster of our Rebel on the ... er... window?

Blogger Dave October 21, 2017 10:25 AM  

Lara Mycroft wrote:
I'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's famous quote: "Power is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't."


"I am a lady" squeaked Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner

Wilbur Hassenfus wrote:What if they put a VTec sticker and a big spoiler on it? And a can?

Heh, a hyper whale-tail spoiler

Anonymous Mensal Cycle October 21, 2017 10:26 AM  

Genius & madness...high IQ women, and leftism. Extra processing power, and a GIGO algorithm.

The Decline and Fall, explained.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 21, 2017 10:26 AM  

@1

And every rose has its thorns.

Anonymous kHz October 21, 2017 10:27 AM  

Matthew: 'Sometimes I wish I had a heat sink for my head.'

This is why smart men lose the fur topping.

Blogger Robert Coble October 21, 2017 10:29 AM  

@37: I would have thought the same thing, except that I have had to explain it several times to non-engineers, some of whom are quite bright people. The conundrum is why a "genius" would need it explained to him. I think it was because he was buried so deep into the theoretical equations that he overlooked the practical implications.

Anonymous Looking Glass October 21, 2017 10:29 AM  

@41 Johnny

Somewhere up to 115, IQ is variant with general health. Which is part of the reason the IQs have gotten lower, a little, among normalized populations. Your idiots didn't survive past age 5, and if they did, you sent them to off to get killed.

We too early forget how eugenics was handled back in the "old days".

As to IQ, in general, look at the IQ maps. Note, very specific, the Latitudes where the high IQ populations exist. Temperate to Cold environments with defensible positions. Civilizations advanced in areas where you had to fight the weather more than other humans to survive. Growable lands within River valleys. But the real trick was raising animals for Milk.

Cow's milk is one of the most amazing foods. That isn't a joke. It built most of Western Civilization. For as much as there is big genetic differences among races & regions, there's some baseline physiological reasons why certain things have been selected for.

Anonymous TS October 21, 2017 10:35 AM  

To paraphrase Common Filth: "All that high IQ and we do nothing but rationalize our own sin."

Sounds like lawyers well the "good" ones anyway.

Blogger rumpole5 October 21, 2017 10:47 AM  

I am surprized that no one has mentioned Charles Murray's discovery of high IQ American "bubbles" in which high cognition Americans interact and mate solely with each other:

http://www.aei.org/publication/superzips-and-the-rest-of-americas-zip-codes/

This recent "bubble" development portends a number of possibilities. Regarding the mental health issues VD discusses in this post, these "bubbles" would diminish the isolation stress that the high cogs normally face (as they are only a few per cent of the population outside, but a larger per centage inside the bubble) but at the same time, it will increase the difficulty the "bubble" high cogs experience in communicating with the mid and low cogs outside of their "bubble". This because in their "bubble" they don't have to interact with dimmer wits as often, and therefore don't develop the skills to do so.

Blogger Johnny October 21, 2017 11:01 AM  

rumpole5 wrote:I am surprized that no one has mentioned Charles Murray's discovery of high IQ American "bubbles" in which high cognition Americans interact and mate solely with each other:

The problem with "bubbles" of this sort is that the loss of common association is also the lost of common affiliation. When they are an elite class they end up being an exploitive minority. Society gets run to their benefit at the expense of everybody else. Which not uncommonly ends up damaging their long term interests along with everybody else.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 21, 2017 11:26 AM  

"No, don't even bother, you're a moron and won't care."

Alternatively, you sperged out too hard thinking about submarines detecting aircraft, something which actually could be (and is) in certain simulations involving submarines. The given example (on this page) does not note what part of the simulation that engineer was working on.

I'll consider going back to surfing facebook (after about seven years of ignoring it) after I complete my inactive reserve duration... which I'm currently on after my five year contract as a sonar technician onboard a Virginia class submarine.

Anonymous BBGKB October 21, 2017 11:27 AM  

The problem, I suspect, is that smart people are more able to rationalize their aberrant behaviors and justify their departures from observable reality

The main traits for sociopaths are normal for blacks but they can't spell it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 21, 2017 11:33 AM  

"The problem with "bubbles" of this sort is that the loss of common association is also the lost of common affiliation. When they are an elite class they end up being an exploitive minority. Society gets run to their benefit at the expense of everybody else. Which not uncommonly ends up damaging their long term interests along with everybody else."

This. All intelligence is just more powerful tools in the shed, it's the ubiquitous base human desires that determine how those tools are going to be used or abused.

Blogger dc.sunsets October 21, 2017 11:34 AM  

Some smart people see the bat guano crazy herding behavior of others and it causes the smart person to question his own sanity.

This contributes considerable confusion to this self-report based study.

Blogger dienw October 21, 2017 11:36 AM  

@Robert Coble
Thanks for the link.
For those who don't want to order the book but would like an article on same subject by same writer a link to a pdf.

As an artist, I sometimes envy such people who can create such powerful artists; for that is what they so obviously are; yet, the price is extremely high and an emaciated death is a real chance and who wants to rationally choose such a life: a friend of mine had these disorders in spades since age twenty-one; when I met him when he was in his sixties, he was driven to work until late at night in his garret apartment; by the time he died emaciated on his bed at sixty-five, over a fishing and bait store at the Jersey shore, he had in his garret over two thousand works of art: he painted on both sides of a piece of wood or cardboard.

Since his death I've stolen a few of his pictorial ideas and have taken them further; but the other members of a group we belonged to have not demonstrated that they learned anything form his work.

And here I sit in an old student housing apartment becoming my garret in need of finding a decent job; yet, I decided to concentrate on producing artwork for an exhibit over the need to obtain steady work.

OpenID crapulux October 21, 2017 11:36 AM  

Say you build a prototype and it doesn't work. The damn thing doesn't care about "muh feelings", posturing won't help, nor sticking a sign on a stick and protesting, it can't be argued with, convinced or cajoled because it has no brain. The only thing that can make it work is the designer admitting they were wrong, finding the mistake and fixing it.

Also, since the previous test pilot is now a red smear on the ground, you better find the words to explain to the next test pilot how what went wrong won't go wrong again...

Engineering is almost like a therapy ;)

Contrast this with modern schooling with participation trophies and everyone gets a nice grade just for existing. This produces people who have never been wrong, never learned from their mistakes, thus no matter how smart, when it inevitably happens, they're unable to handle it and go REEEEEE.

Blogger dienw October 21, 2017 11:38 AM  

people who can create such powerful [art]

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 21, 2017 11:39 AM  

Part of this could be chalked up to more intelligent people being more likely to notice something odd about themselves, as well as more likely to have the money to throw around for a professional opinion on the matter.

Part of it could be due to psychology being the softest "science".

Some of it could even be laid at the feet of the average psychologist, rushing to classify people that they simply don't understand.

A large portion of it is likely high-functioning focus-aiding debilitations on the autism spectrum. Something most of us around here were already rather aware of.

Blogger rumpole5 October 21, 2017 11:40 AM  

I don't believe that "bubble" high cogs set out to be elite or exploitive. The exploitive component of our society are the dysfunctional low cogs. What do they produce? What with the high use of opiates and firearms in low cog areas perhaps the cognition gap will diminish in time.

Anonymous Causal Lurker October 21, 2017 11:41 AM  

@53 Robert Coble

Simple "string reality" chart: 3 knots, 30 knots, 300 knots, 3000 knots :)

It's a missing impetus to think strategically, or maybe think in larger spaces. I work with a lot of high-end scientists, engineers, and psych types. Many are unable to look beyond the bounds, or unable to recall what the boundary means. Once I had questions about some absurd model results, and asked one of the model builders what caused it at a boundary condition. Got an understandable answer, because I phrased the question right, and then figured where to bound the inputs and how to explain the results to our customer (in plain language).

And repeating, able to express results, problems, and fixes in plain language that the customer understands. That's the big part of applied intelligence, getting the customer or audience to understand what you said. Now that's a rare genius talent. I'm competent because of a lot of painful practice, but will forget and speak geek at the wrong time. I'll let the real genius at it speak first.


Our host the SDL, may he and his throne of skulls shine forever, is pleased to tweak us again. Lack of spatial intelligence indeed, with demonstrated ability to outplay the youngsters at soccer. Lot of intuitive spatial and vector analysis at work there.

Anonymous BD October 21, 2017 11:41 AM  

Can confirm

Blogger Doc Rampage October 21, 2017 11:48 AM  

I think smart people may be more susceptible to hypochondria because they have more active imaginations. That survey looks like a hypochondria meter.

On the other hand, it is also possible that there is some natural stability/intelligence trade-off in the human brain structure. That may be part of why everyone isn't super intelligent.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 21, 2017 11:59 AM  

"I don't believe that "bubble" high cogs set out to be elite or exploitive."

The road to hell is paved with...

"The exploitive component of our society are the dysfunctional low cogs."

Not really true. They're just the ones more often involved in violent crime. The high cogs seem to stick mostly to embezzling and tax evasion or similar abstract crimes.

"What with the high use of opiates and firearms in low cog areas perhaps the cognition gap will diminish in time."

Probably not. They generally reproduce enough to make up for it, and often some extra to boot.


Low intelligence isn't doing anyone any favors, but neither is high intelligence. It's just that high intelligence prefers the fruits and aims of high intelligence. Low intelligence mostly prefers the fruits and aims of low intelligence, though they may become (generationally) addicted to the fruits of high intelligence, to the detriment of all.

The only reason the black man in the USA cares about indoor plumbing, processed food and gibsmedats is because he was dragged over and accustomed to them (and had some of our blood mixed in). Now? Well, rule of thumb is that no one really likes change. Old habits die hard.

Anonymous BBGKB October 21, 2017 12:04 PM  

What with the high use of opiates and firearms in low cog areas perhaps the cognition gap will diminish in time.

I am pretty sure that (((They))) planned on the opiate epidemic, when they claimed OxyContin was not addictive.

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 21, 2017 12:34 PM  

This might partly explain the phenomenon Z-Man terms as Narcissistic Altruism, though this is really just virtue-signaling writ large to the point where it becomes a pathology. It's not confined to the highly intelligent either.

Blogger Johnny October 21, 2017 12:36 PM  

The lower class in the United States is a greater burden than usual because for reasons of compassion or votes we burden the general society with their welfare. In other places and other times they were a burden mainly to law enforcement and having to deal with the occasional beggar.

The upper class, made up of usually smart people, is a burden because they run society to their benefit. Consider the globalism stuff we have right now. Because the world beyond our borders is filled with low expectation blue collar labor, we ship a lot of low skilled labor abroad with imports and tolerate many low skill types as illegal immigrants. This contributes to the general welfare of everybody in the form of less expensive goods and services, but at the expense of the lower class that is either unemployed or working cheaper owing to the low cost competition. That is, the policy favors the middle to upper classes who are not subject to job loss or wage diminishment.

And so on and so on. Everywhere society gets run to the benefit of those who run it.

Blogger J Van Stry October 21, 2017 12:40 PM  

The problem is that only the smart people with issues join clubs like Mensa, and then agree to be lab rats to anyone and everyone.

Yes, I could have joined Mensa, but I didn't see any point to it. I've got no interest in waving around a membership card for a club that isn't really going to gain me anything (and that card isn't going to get you laid by that hottie over there).

Blogger Matthew October 21, 2017 12:43 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:Cow's milk is one of the most amazing foods. That isn't a joke. It built most of Western Civilization. For as much as there is big genetic differences among races & regions, there's some baseline physiological reasons why certain things have been selected for.



What do you think about the Mongols and their reliance on mare's milk?

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 21, 2017 12:43 PM  

wreckage wrote:
@33
, I'm not sure anyone needs a genius to explain to them why submarines are unlikely to be traveling at 1.5 kilometers per second...


Only one kind can go that fast - the famous untersee Oldsmobile whose most famous captain was Teddy Kennedy, who always claimed it was the fifth of scotch that give him the power.

Blogger Pavlosky Ufanov October 21, 2017 1:08 PM  

@8

+1

Blogger VFM #7634 October 21, 2017 1:28 PM  

Looks like the Gamma-midwit phenomenon combined with a lack of humility. The fact that high-IQ people tend to worry more about the future than low-IQ people do doesn't help either.

From what I understand, Mensa is full to the gills with Gamma Secret Kings, so it shouldn't be at all surprising that it has a higher rate of mental illness.

Anonymous Causal Lurker October 21, 2017 1:30 PM  

But were the trousers flying at half-staff on that Olds?

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 21, 2017 1:50 PM  

But were the trousers flying at half-staff on that Olds?

Forever at half-mast, if not tenth-mast.

Blogger jeffro October 21, 2017 1:54 PM  

"The more sensitive and insecure an intelligent person is, the more likely that he is going to find himself regularly buffeted by social pressures that he simply cannot understand." I don't know. Seems like the person should be smart enough to figure it out.

Blogger VD October 21, 2017 2:10 PM  

Vox is not INTJ.

Actually, I am.

Blogger Robert Coble October 21, 2017 2:12 PM  

@58: The given example (on this page) does not note what part of the simulation that engineer was working on.

The engineer was working on the equations of motion for the 688-class submarine. No aircraft were included in the simulator.

Blogger RobertT October 21, 2017 3:38 PM  

That's interesting. Here are a couple of things I've noticed. A lot of highly intelligent people never concentrate enough to become expert in physics or tax or anything. They are satisfied to drive a cab and play computer games their entire life. They have a super fast processor but nothing to process. PLus people don't understand many of the things they say and think they are idiots. It must be humiliating for very bright people to be laughed at for being idiots. That could cause a slight tick every now & then. Mensa is crammed full of this.

The other thing is this - I don't consider any of these ailments, ailments(?). In my point of view they are a ready and handy indicator of high intelligence. Possibly they go together. Remember, these are mental conditions. They aren't like a broken leg. I have never found anyone who (suffers) from them who wasn't bright.

Anonymous JAG October 21, 2017 4:06 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:"An “average IQ score” or “normal IQ score” can be defined as a score between 85 and 115."

Gotta love journalists. IQ 85, ineducable, suitable only for manual jobs...IQ 115, decent college level....But both are "average".


It's virtue signaling. The average IQ of Blacks in the US is 85.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 21, 2017 4:25 PM  

The model for this seems to be a dot of smartness in a sea of mediocrity. This seems to have been what allowed various older members of a familiar family to have really unfortunate personality traits, personal habits, and general social maladaptions.

The gifted class model takes about fifteen young monkeys (er,children) set them loose in an enriched room (er, classroom) and have a teacher who is not gifted just sort of act as a social behavior umpire. The kids have a model of all being similar, so there isn't any persecuted genius amongst worms thing going on. Stable, well-behaved, polite kids come out of this practice. They aren't as insistent on being known as geniuses, because everyone they know is genius, or near genius.

Blogger Thot October 21, 2017 5:30 PM  

Women with Borderline personality disorder can be HIGHLY intelligent. But they have a very good chance of being straight up "super villains". I know from experience.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 21, 2017 6:21 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Now? Well, rule of thumb is that no one really likes change. Old habits die hard.

Take a content chimp, give him a banana, and then try to take it away, and I assume he'll tear off your arm. Even though the net sum would be the same as when he was content.

Replace that chimp with a human.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 21, 2017 6:47 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:We too early forget how eugenics was handled back in the "old days".
From exposure of "changelings" to early death of the retarded and otherwise handicapped from neglect in institutions, we used to remove them from our societies both as members and as burdens.

Now we have "handicapped rights" and "mainstreaming" and everything else.  How's that working out for us?

Cow's milk is one of the most amazing foods. That isn't a joke. It built most of Western Civilization.
I smell someone else with "The 10,000 Year Explosion" on the bookshelf.  Per C&H, dairying can get 4x the calories from the same size herd as raising animals for meat.  Oddly, this gene doesn't seem to have been carried over to China, and milk consumption in cow-worshipping India is very low.

Blogger VD October 21, 2017 7:06 PM  

It's virtue signaling. The average IQ of Blacks in the US is 85.

No, it's not. -1 standard deviation to +1 standard deviation is a sound statistical definition of normal.

Anonymous TS October 21, 2017 7:50 PM  

"Women with Borderline personality disorder can be HIGHLY intelligent. But they have a very good chance of being straight up "super villains". I know from experience."

Bingo!

Blogger LP9 October 21, 2017 8:24 PM  

+People do not listen; they watch too much+; 16, in a recent peri, the host stated with time, age, etc., he doesn't care like many here its a level of being tuned into the right things like family etc., what is really important and the "unimportant shifting sand matters" its like Heartsite would say; ZFG, no time no heart no interest in it but aware of it.

It is like being checked in and checked out at once like a state of constant uninterrupted observation, solution, movement and yes feelings will kill you.

Anonymous badhairday October 21, 2017 8:43 PM  

It takes a certain level of intelligence to realise that you're crazy.

Anonymous Raker Tooth October 21, 2017 9:43 PM  

Some thoughts:
This isn't boasting about genetics, as I'm neither blissful or educated; but I've seen brilliance in my offspring. Not all the time, but it's there. In this day, raising smart children must have a huge element of omission. Forbid the mindless entertainment that makes ordinary life look boring. Set an example of being fascinated with, and rewarded by attention to details. Give them enough academics to condition the mind at an early age, but don't burden them with so much that they aren't finished until 7 pm, and develop a dislike of it. Have an environment with enough real world physical interactions that they realize the importance of math and physics.
One of the older brothers has been contemplating a patent for a certain kind of variable compression motor. It's strange being an ex street druggie, and raising something like the contemporary Wright brothers. Not saying they're going to change the world with anything famous, but to hear them interact with each other about advanced mechanical and physical concepts is amazing. Being zealous of the right home environment is important.
.
I recently read that artists are more sensitive that most people. While that certainly could include emotional sensitivity, I think it would include increased sensitivity to sights and sounds. So if their behavior looks manic, they're merely reacting to the increased stimuli in their minds.
.
I wonder if there's an economic aspect of practical intelligence. That is, in an economy with lots of debt spending and printed money. If tomorrow there was no welfare or student loans, would people harbor illusions of being an NBA star, or study obscure subjects like lesbian matriarchal tribes 400 years ago?

Blogger wreckage October 21, 2017 11:53 PM  

@73; the export of all factory jobs due to economic-political pressures renders everyone inside the -1 SD band - technically within average as VD points out - incapacitated. They cannot work because the jobs don't exist.

Core leftist malfunction: to retain and expand the population in the -1 SD bracket, while thoroughly and systematically eliminating every possible economic and social niche for them.

Try starting a business. I'm, 119 IQ and even I have trouble just "not breaking the law". Our society is approaching a level of complexity where even the low functioning +1 to +2 SD are a liability.

The social collapse is essentially going to result from an incentive system that rewards an endless pursuit of "feature completeness" with no regard to cognitive hardware resources.

Imagine a lazy person installing everything that sounds good. That's the democratic political class making laws.

Anonymous Noah Baudie October 22, 2017 2:00 AM  

When I read the article, all I hear is "Hello, my fellow white people! (((We))) have proven scientifically that you're all either moronic superstitious peasants or self-hating self-destructive neurotic midwits, and (((we)))) certainly aren't projecting. It's the scientifically proven truth! Shut up and eat your Ritalin and your Prozac and your Xanax and your Oxycontin--all non-addictive, guaranteed!--and watch your sportsball like a good goy, then die alone in a nursing home so that more deserving brown people can take over. Those IQ-55 schwartzers who bounce the ball and throw it through a hoop, those are REAL men who don't share your neurosis and your self-hatred, and your children should want to be just like them! Also shut up about the televitz and the public schools teaching your children to be trannies so that you'll all be extinct by the year 2100. Oh, and keep running up your credit card tab to buy stupid plastic trinkets you don't need, because (((we))) own the banks too and there are still a few Congressmen (((we))) haven't bought yet. These are all scientific facts and denying them would be like denying the Holocaust!"

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) October 22, 2017 3:10 AM  

47. Matthew October 21, 2017 10:23 AM
Sometimes I wish I had a heat sink for my head.


sometimes i wish my head ran hot enough to need a heat sink.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 22, 2017 9:09 AM  

VD wrote:The average IQ of Blacks in the US is 85.

No, it's not. -1 standard deviation to +1 standard deviation is a sound statistical definition of normal.

A 1.1 SD difference in mean IQ is enormous.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.186.102&rep=rep1&type=pdf

When the children of your richest barely out-score the children of the poorest Whites on the SAT... it's not normal in any sense other than it's a genetic deficiency and not going away.

Blogger GithYankee October 22, 2017 10:05 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous grayman October 22, 2017 6:04 PM  

Realisticly anyone less that .66 standard deviations below the white norm is locked out of western society. They can still live in it but are locked into a segment replaced by automation and outsourcing.

That means 2/3 or more of arab, hispanic and black populations are dead weight on a western society.

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