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Saturday, October 21, 2017

So much for civic Christianity

Evangelicals are discovering that racial identity trumps religious identity:
It is critical to note that the issues for which they left the immigrant churches weren’t doctrinal or theological, but cultural.

Today, it seems like a “Reverse Exodus” is taking place for very similar reasons. Like Lecrae, people of color are finding that white evangelical churches and institutions fail to truly embrace them. After doing their best to carve out a space for themselves within white evangelicalism, give it a fair shot (or multiple shots), and even endure through the challenges for decades, there is a growing number of people of color who are seeking places where they can finally feel at home, while still yearning for the greater eternal home....

Well, the solutions are actually quite simple. This does not mean the solutions aren’t costly or difficult, but they are simple: at every layer of evangelical leadership, allow for a solid concentration of evangelicals of color to occupy culture-shaping positions of authority. Again, the problem wasn’t theology, but culture.

We need to be aware of how we bring unconscious biases to our own litmus tests of whether people of color are theologically correct enough based on their emphasis on justice issues. Often times, people of color are viewed with greater scrutiny simply because of their skin tone. We need to be concerned with the ways our political commitments co-opt our faith commitments. The fact that people equate Christians with a particular political party is problematic, especially if we consider how both parties are deeply flawed. We need to redefine our understanding of organizational fit. This means we need to reconsider what it means to be equipped. For example, is someone equipped for the pastorate if they have racist tendencies or beliefs? And who gets to decide if they do, white people or the people they disparage?
Isn't it remarkable that the solution is always More Magic People of Color no matter whether the problem concerns football coaches, technology companies, or Christianity? I wonder what the common factor might possibly be?

SJWs Always Double Down addresses what is happening here. This is exhortation by an infiltrator, appealing to an extremely amenable authority.

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102 Comments:

Blogger Markku October 21, 2017 1:08 PM  

Well, the solutions are actually quite simple.

They damn sure are, and they are what John Piper's father said they are. Keep the white man and the negro separate, in separate congregations.

Blogger ZhukovG October 21, 2017 1:16 PM  

A devout Indian(dot) Christian of my acquaintance drives his family over 2 hours to attend an Indian Church. And yes, his reasons were not doctrinal but cultural. Not to mention he thought all the hugging and hand-holding in American Evangelical Churches was kind of creepy.

He is the one Indian I would happily allow to stay in the United States, but he wants to go back to India. He fears that American culture will have a toxic effect on his children's Christian faith as they get older.

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 21, 2017 1:17 PM  

All together under the blissful stare of Judeo-Christ. I understand Hi-Fellatin' Franny is working on a new improved version of the faith more suitable as a one-world religion over at St. Pete's Bathhouse-Basilica these days. Perhaps Revs. Dindu and friends will feelz more at home there.

Anonymous Mayonnaise October 21, 2017 1:18 PM  

Often times, people of color are viewed with greater scrutiny simply because of their skin tone.

... yet the author, Chang, has no problem scrutinizing whites simply because of their skin tone.

Blogger James Dixon October 21, 2017 1:24 PM  

> Not to mention he thought all the hugging and hand-holding in American Evangelical Churches was kind of creepy.

I'm not going to say he was wrong.

Anonymous Didas Kalos October 21, 2017 1:24 PM  

Is all this over a hip hop 'christian' artist? Let the 'white evangelicals' cry a bucket! Without blasphemy I say - OMG.

Blogger S1AL October 21, 2017 1:25 PM  

And yet, in everyday churches around the country, we manage to have several races under one roof with no issues whatsoever.

It's as if the author is just inventing problems to serve his political purposes.

Anonymous Claudius Gaius Scrotus October 21, 2017 1:27 PM  

The truly funny part of this story, is that these cucky pretend Christians, won't connect the dots and see how POC will alos behave the same way outside of church.

Blogger kh123 October 21, 2017 1:42 PM  

"For example, is someone equipped for the pastorate if they have racist tendencies or beliefs?"

You mean like the one run by a man who put Obama to sleep for over a decade? That kind of pastorate?

Anonymous Iacobus October 21, 2017 1:42 PM  

Being as stupid as Raymond Chang is should be fatal.

I mean that. I really do. He acts like he's my brother in Christ. Yeah. Mensch pisses down my back and tell me it's raining. I know what he's doing even if he doesn't.

Blogger kh123 October 21, 2017 1:44 PM  

...Salve for the soul: Adam Corolla takes on (I'm assuming) an NPR mealy-mouth on racial disparity.

Blogger Timmy3 October 21, 2017 1:47 PM  

It was too long to get through it.

Essentially, White Evangelicalism doesn’t need to change. Every church has it’s strengths. Ethnic churches resulted simply from the size of the congregation and whether they prefer English or their native languages. Many find comfort with people that look like themselves. Reaching out is misconstrued. Once they are Christians, their home churches can be anything they want.

Anonymous Crew October 21, 2017 1:54 PM  

while still yearning for the greater eternal home

Their home, generally, is back in Africa or back in China.

Anonymous DissidentRight October 21, 2017 1:54 PM  

I guess non-whites don't see themselves as whites with non-white skin, and don't desire to see themselves as whites with non-white skin.

Imagine that.

Anonymous HashamiteSandwich October 21, 2017 1:55 PM  

GenZ is woke, and there's no going back. In every single cultural space, the self-segregation will continue until the US breaks up into racially homogeneous nation states.

Anonymous LES October 21, 2017 1:55 PM  

Individuals from different races and ethnicities can get along but groups, not so much. No one likes being a minority.

Blogger kh123 October 21, 2017 1:57 PM  

...Of course, the end of the video has to have "Surround yourself with smart people, and you will do better in life, I guarantee you," followed by the article two posts previous: Smart People Are Crazy.

Anonymous Magna Carta October 21, 2017 2:05 PM  

They have to go back... and evangelize their own people. Problem solved.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 21, 2017 2:11 PM  

Dare I ask what the POC bring to Whites except their magic self?

Blogger pyrrhus October 21, 2017 2:12 PM  

It really is amazing. Whatever the "problem" may be, SJWs have exactly the same "solution"...When the solution becomes extinction for the people who built the church and society, some of the cucks will go along with that too.

Blogger Howard Stone October 21, 2017 2:12 PM  

This is nothing to be alarmed about, just one of the many contrivances of Satan being put in motion to bring about/continue the great falling away. If anything it's a curiosity to observe it happening.

Blogger JohnG October 21, 2017 2:14 PM  

I'm sure the Old Man would appreciate churches affirmative actioning minorities into leadership position solely based on their skin color. Looks like simple liberal bleating that there might be actual Christians with opinions on liberal conduct in churches.

Anonymous Crew October 21, 2017 2:20 PM  

Just like the DNC, where they keep saying that more die-versity promotes unity, but they don't use the word unity correctly!

https://theintercept.com/2017/10/20/democratic-party-drama-puts-deputy-chair-keith-ellison-in-a-tough-spot/

Blogger weka October 21, 2017 2:23 PM  

Can confirm

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis October 21, 2017 2:32 PM  

An interesting race fact (in the USA): almost all Leftists are white, and the Leftist subgroup of SJWs are almost exclusively white. I think the main distinction between the bog standard Leftist and the SJW is that the SJWs are close to 100% mentally ill. The SJW attributes of lying, projecting, and doubling down relate to their choosing not to confront their mental illnesses.

Anonymous Horschach Horseradish October 21, 2017 2:35 PM  

Ooo ooo! Mistuh Kotter! Question!

(I am terribly sorry to date myself with that reference).

In all the discussions Mr. Day has had about ethnicity, at one point I thought he was Italian. Infogalactic set me straight on that! But is Vox still a US citizen? I am curious if that would have any bearing on his attitudes towards nationalism. Maybe he touched on this in a blog post.

Blogger FrankNorman October 21, 2017 2:37 PM  

This reminds me of Saruman's "White, it serves as a beginning" speech.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville October 21, 2017 2:37 PM  

It is an insidious problem among evangelical and fundamental churches holding a strong emphasis on missions and fulfilling the great commission.

I was in such a mega-church for a number of years. It went from nearly white to multi-culti within a ten year span after a returning missionary became the head pastor. Before we knew it, there was a Hispanic church within a church. Not part of, but separate from at least. In their own building with their own services En Espanol.

Then came the Africans mostly from Kenya and Nairobi. They attended the main services but sat in the African sections.

Then came the inner city outreach since the inner city had reached the borders of the church. "Hey, missions field".

And now they boast of a polyglot faith community, and as far as I can tell have sent few to no new missionaries out to other countries. And why not? They created their own little babel of a mission field right in the church.

Blogger Rashadjin October 21, 2017 2:41 PM  

Heh, everyone can tell you that the problem is cultural.

I attended a few services in a black church once - very passionate worship; good, knowledgeable preacher; great, friendly people all spiffied up in their church clothes.

The problem was that going there was like walking through a time warp into the late 1970s or something. 'Civil Rights' colored every service one way or another.

One of the great problems of the American Black community is that they're stuck in the past, fighting culture wars won long, long ago. This keeps them locked away in a completely differently world than your average white evangelical community for whom the Civil Rights era is damn near ancient history.

When people live in different worlds, they cannot integrate into a greater whole in any meaningful way.

The other problem is that the social norms and forms of interpersonal communication are very different between the various ethnic communities. Jumping from your native to another means you're getting all these weird signals that you don't know how to interpret and aren't comfortable with, which gives the sense that you don't belong. The problem isn't that the people around you aren't being welcoming and accepting, the problem is your primal survival instincts are telling you that you don't belong here. So in the above article, the problem isn't the white evangelicals, it's Lecrae.

The simple, natural, path of least resistance is to make the split formal, which means that is what is going to happen, because humans. The alternative is for the various ethnic sub cultures to be assimilated into the dominate culture and so cease to exist as separate entities by mostly just ceasing to exists. Since this is anathema in American society, it won't happen, which is the other reason the split is going to become formal.

That said, I very much like Lecrae. The Confessions (of a Millionaire) music vid is a beautiful bit of art - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFVV5SXqqrA

Blogger James October 21, 2017 2:43 PM  

"at every layer of evangelical leadership, allow for a solid concentration of evangelicals of color to occupy culture-shaping positions of authority."

And have you ever noticed that the solution always involves "giving" the coloreds something they can't earn on their own? Every. Single. Time.

Blogger RobertT October 21, 2017 2:47 PM  

I have a new client moving their corporate headquarters and tax base out of South Africa to the US. As you may know, the US has the highest corporate tax rates in the world. They sell all over the world and could have gone anywhere. In fact they sell more in the EU than they do in the US. They could have gone to Bimini or the Caymans. But they aren't going to Bimini or the EU or the Caymnns, they're coming to the US.

Anonymous Crew October 21, 2017 3:06 PM  

@RobertT: Why?

Anonymous Daniel H October 21, 2017 3:09 PM  

The only transnational organization that has any hope of bringing the slightest comity between different races and peoples - and even here, the achievements will be limited - is the Roman Catholic church.

Protestants: Rebels without a cause.

Blogger YIH October 21, 2017 3:09 PM  

Markku wrote:Well, the solutions are actually quite simple.

They damn sure are, and they are what John Piper's father said they are. Keep the white man and the negro separate, in separate congregations.

Yep. I've heard churchians whine over and over again ''The most segregated time of the week is Sunday morning''. Because those cucks truly believe that Africans are Whites with different color skin See: David French and other entertainment industry dolts who bought pet Africans or, of course the adoptive parents of Colon Krapernig. They're truly blind to the differences:
Black women have great faith in God, but they have a twisted understanding of His role. They do not pray for strength or courage. They pray for results: the satisfaction of immediate needs. One of my clients was a black woman who prayed in a circle with her accomplices for God’s protection from the police before they would set out to commit a robbery.
The mothers and grandmothers pray in the hallways–not for justice, but for acquittal. When I explain that the evidence that their beloved child murdered the shop keeper is overwhelming, and that he should accept the very fair plea bargain I have negotiated, they will tell me that he is going to trial and will “ride with the Lord.” They tell me they speak to God every day and He assures them that the young man will be acquitted.

Just like voodoo, it's African shamanism dressed up to resemble Christianity.

Blogger kh123 October 21, 2017 3:11 PM  

"The simple, natural, path of least resistance is to make the split formal, which means that is what is going to happen, because humans."

Or, as some here would say - and I would suspect: because neanderthalensis. As you pointed out, " social norms and forms of interpersonal communication are very different between the various ethnic communities". Is safe to say that applies to various social and survival strategies as well.

Blogger Matthew October 21, 2017 3:11 PM  

Markku wrote:Well, the solutions are actually quite simple.

They damn sure are, and they are what John Piper's father said they are. Keep the white man and the negro separate, in separate congregations.


We shouldn't be living in proximity, let alone worshiping in it.

Anonymous Elmer Fudd October 21, 2017 3:30 PM  

@11 kh123

Excellent link. Corolla absolutely destroys this guy. And watching Philco (who's black) agreeing with Corolla is icing on the cake!

Blogger Darwinian Arminian October 21, 2017 3:32 PM  

Chang's article really is something. He admits himself that most of the Asians in white churches today are second-generation arrivals that left the home churches of their parents in which they were the ethnic majority because the white evangelical churches seemed more hip and had more services to offer. Then he makes a straight jump to saying that these same Asians are now rightfully angry because the new churches they switched to don't reflect their "cultural realities."

I know the Asians are stereotyped as being good with numbers, but if pieces like this are any indication they certainly don't have any natural talents for logic.

Blogger Dangeresque October 21, 2017 3:56 PM  

Kind of off topic, but I see church as it traditionally exists as having been destroyed by an underlying technological shift rather than a purely cultural or ideological one. Coming forth out of the agricultural revolution, The idea of church being somewhere you go and sit and relax for 3 hours and listen to someone talk after a week of back-breaking labor was probably seen as a refreshing break from the norm. After the industrial revolution and now getting into a more information based economy most people are already sitting around indoors 40 hours a week, myself included, and another 3 hours sounds like literally the least attractive idea possible at any given moment.

Until I walk into a church and it's just a bunch of guys lifting weights, cleaning guns, training MMA, and making chain mail shirts with crusader crosses, church just won't be that interesting. Part of me doesn't want to see it go, but if it does - much like the mainstream media - the wreckage that the leftist infiltrators inherit will be of increasingly little value anyway.

Anonymous Panzer Man October 21, 2017 4:01 PM  

Horschach Horseradish wrote:Ooo ooo! Mistuh Kotter! Question!

(I am terribly sorry to date myself with that reference).

In all the discussions Mr. Day has had about ethnicity, at one point I thought he was Italian. Infogalactic set me straight on that! But is Vox still a US citizen? I am curious if that would have any bearing on his attitudes towards nationalism. Maybe he touched on this in a blog post.


He is unless he deliberately renounced his citizenship with a consular official as witness, or fought in a foreign army against the US military. I doubt either of those two conditions applies, but absolute certitude belongs only to Vox himself.

Blogger DonReynolds October 21, 2017 4:06 PM  

When the Christian churches lost sight of the any mission to save souls and replaced that with social justice and Leftist politics, then they stopped being Christian churches...in my opinion.

After that, I really do not care what happens to them. They are impersonators, acting out their own liberal fantasies in someone else's house. The ultimate in naughty.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim October 21, 2017 4:17 PM  

But but... Piper EXPLICITLY virtue signal by adopting a BLACK orphan!!! What more does he have to do?/s

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim October 21, 2017 4:18 PM  

*edit* "signaled"

Blogger kh123 October 21, 2017 4:19 PM  

@38;

When Vox ran the Elders of Wye post a few years ago, there was the strange connection of established Golden Cage dwellers thinking on China as a bug-out option if things went south in the West. Why China, of all places?...

But then the realization: Whether it's aerospace engineering, driving habits or artistic influence, if there's a Mainlander there everyone else is going to know how they're all doing it wrong. Not good enough. That's dumb. And I think that abrasiveness speaks to the chutzpah of folks who've had the Chosen thing floating around in their collective background for two millennia.

It's likely a strength for cultural preservation and of not harboring anything but abrasive pragmatism for your people, but if ever dealt with on a personal level it's grating as all get out. As we see in the article, by and large they don't know when to turn it off; "No, your inclusion is all wrong."

Blogger tz October 21, 2017 4:24 PM  

They just need the rainbow flags, condom dispensers, and abortion referrals.

I read through the whole thing, but couldn't find any specific complaint - other than there weren't enough PoC (Pieces of ...? I thought it was the S 4 letter word).

First it shows the only goal is convergence.

Second, it shows the futility of Civic Nationalism as such - the Left demands identity, not that any actual problem be fixed. White Christian Males ARE the problem to them. They will assert they are not yet equal even when given advantages, subsidy, and preference and are far better off. That is also the lesson of the NFL protests - any of those Millionaires could do things to address the problem they assert exists, but instead just want to show they care. Even if the cities started burning own and cops were slaughtered (see Dallas) they would still signal.

If you can change the rules of the game and become the referees, you can't lose. If you let them do so, you can't win.

Blogger kh123 October 21, 2017 4:28 PM  

@37;

Just noticed now the constant refrain from the other guy fumbling over Carolla, "(That poverty, that dysfunction, those low test scores) just happened. Things happened."

Given he's apparently a mayor: Yeah, just happened. Like an arsonist saying "Hey, random sparks off those rocks. Burning bush even, just out of nowhere. Chicago's just got random lead falling from the sky like brimstone every day." Imagine if humanity decided that the human body, that material over there, those substances over here, they just do stuff, who the hell knows why.

Don't know which is worse: Those who shoehorn every original sin originating from Europe, or the "just happened" ex nihilo crowd.

Blogger weka October 21, 2017 4:28 PM  

Somewhat on topic: Willow Creek has appointed one of their women managers as co lead pastor when the founder retires.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2017/october/willow-creek-bill-hybels-names-co-ed-pastors-to-succeed.html
This will not end well.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim October 21, 2017 4:30 PM  

@29

I attended a few services in a black church once - very passionate worship; good, knowledgeable preacher; great, friendly people all spiffied up in their church clothes.

The problem was that going there was like walking through a time warp into the late 1970s or something. 'Civil Rights' colored every service one way or another.

One of the great problems of the American Black community is that they're stuck in the past, fighting culture wars won long, long ago. This keeps them locked away in a completely differently world than your average white evangelical community for whom the Civil Rights era is damn near ancient history.

When people live in different worlds, they cannot integrate into a greater whole in any meaningful way.

The other problem is that the social norms and forms of interpersonal communication are very different between the various ethnic communities. Jumping from your native to another means you're getting all these weird signals that you don't know how to interpret and aren't comfortable with, which gives the sense that you don't belong. The problem isn't that the people around you aren't being welcoming and accepting, the problem is your primal survival instincts are telling you that you don't belong here. So in the above article, the problem isn't the white evangelicals, it's Lecrae.

The simple, natural, path of least resistance is to make the split formal, which means that is what is going to happen, because humans. The alternative is for the various ethnic sub cultures to be assimilated into the dominate culture and so cease to exist as separate entities by mostly just ceasing to exists. Since this is anathema in American society, it won't happen, which is the other reason the split is going to become formal.

That said, I very much like Lecrae.


I was done with him after his Anomaly album... the songs American and Dirty Water set off the BLM/Identity Politics red flags. This just confirms my suspicions.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim October 21, 2017 4:30 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim October 21, 2017 4:31 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger James Dixon October 21, 2017 4:41 PM  

> When the Christian churches lost sight of the any mission to save souls and replaced that with social justice and Leftist politics, then they stopped being Christian churches...in my opinion.

I suspect you're not the only one who thinks so, probably including the only one whose opinion counts.

Blogger Brad Matthews October 21, 2017 4:45 PM  

X-ianity. Christ is nowhere to be found.

Blogger Markku October 21, 2017 4:45 PM  

Since this Chink is telling us that POCs are already escaping "white evangelism" it sounds like the problem is rapidly fixing itself and we don't need to do anything.

Blogger weka October 21, 2017 4:51 PM  

Too short for the ride. The t9ic is SJW entryists ruining churches.

Because they worhipbthe narrative, not Christ.

Blogger Pteronarcyd October 21, 2017 5:10 PM  

"For all of evangelicalism’s existence, a disproportionate burden has been placed on communities of color to adapt, adjust, assimilate, and acquiesce to the white expressions of Christianity."

White Christianity? Is there any other kind? Christianity began in a White Judaic culture, then fully developed and flourished in a White European culture. Beginning in the 16th century Europeans spread their religion around the globe.

It's rather difficult to separate culture from religion. One of the Founders' mistakes was not limiting freedom of religion to freedom of Christian religion, just as they should have specified that all White men are created equal.

By all means, feel free to start your own alien church if you can't abide by one of our founding Christian denominations, but be aware that your inavility to assimilate is your problem, it shouldn't be ours.

Anonymous BBGKB October 21, 2017 5:33 PM  

This is actually a rather timely comic WWJCD- https://stonetoss.com/comic/martyr/

over Carolla, "(That poverty, that dysfunction, those low test scores) just happened. Things happened."

Why are jews doing well, he asked.

Blogger Rashadjin October 21, 2017 5:50 PM  

@48

I was done with him after his Anomaly album... the songs American and Dirty Water set off the BLM/Identity Politics red flags. This just confirms my suspicions.

Yeah, those songs gave me the same red flags. It's regrettable, but it's also like opening a window into the Black American mindset via a good artist doing his best given he's a product of his culture. Lecrae remains a net positive, along with being a mental bridge into that particular world. To all other considerations - c'est la vie.

Anonymous BBGKB October 21, 2017 6:01 PM  

OT but good news about DNC coalition of fringes

Wetback/jew cross purges mostly black, Hispanic, and/or gay from DNC power positions. Also bragging about trying to pass off a 58-year-old trannie as a “Milliennial.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/10/20/democratic-party-drama-puts-deputy-chair-keith-ellison-in-a-tough-spot/

Anonymous Bertram October 21, 2017 6:33 PM  

I've never quite understood this "of color" nonsense. Do they really believe that all nonwhites are the same or that they can actually agree on anything? The difference between a Black and an Oriental is much further than the distance between a White and an Oriental.

Blogger Darwinian Arminian October 21, 2017 6:35 PM  

Also note how many of the same church leaders pushing for SJWism in church are going out of their way to remind everyone that "Jesus was a brown-skinned Middle Easterner!" The supposedly "orthodox" Piper is no exception to this, even taking care to mention this in that response he wrote to Lecrae:

"I know young men whose disillusionment with “white evangelicalism” was not as painful as Lecrae’s, and yet they threw the brown baby of Bethlehem out with the white bathwater."

Behold the new inspired SJW Christianitty, where Christ can overlook that we don't worship him but will terminate with extreme prejudice anyone who forgets that he was a dark-skinned illegal alien!

The upside of this is that a far sharper mind than any of the evagelicucks has already debunked the idea of "brown-skinned Jesus": None other than Nassim Nicholas Taleb, who was even born in the same region, and who you can read here: https://medium.com/east-med-project-history-philology-and-genetics/no-jesus-was-not-a-nonwhite-refugee-who-would-have-voted-for-43779209eea4#.6xzbg3cs1

If God is generous then perhaps we might even get to Taleb bitch-slap Piper over this on Twitter in the same way that we recently got to see him do to Mary Beard when she got caught lying about her black-skinned Celts.

Anonymous Lawyer Guy October 21, 2017 6:43 PM  

Almost 3 decades ago an ELCA (pro gay Lutheran) chaplain was the army sponsor for a witches group. I was nonplussed.

Then they imported tens of thousands of 80 IQ Muslims who hate America and ruined their religious stronghold. They actually have a death wish

Blogger Unknown October 21, 2017 7:02 PM  

Isn't it remarkable that the solution is always More Magic People of Color no matter whether the problem concerns football coaches, technology companies, or Christianity? I wonder what the common factor might possibly be?

Magic White People who trumpet their holiness and ignore their own sin. No different to the Scribes and Pharisees. The mainstream churches will never go down this color-coded path with you.

I guess that's is why you're building your own church here. What's the sacred object of worship here, again?

Anonymous DDT October 21, 2017 7:05 PM  

I assume the driving concern for pastors is 'Pussy Christianity is driving away the whites, we need to tap the ethnics to keep tithes coming in. But will the whites go for us shitting all over them?'

Blogger Matamoros October 21, 2017 7:06 PM  

Generation Z is Coming

Sorcha Faal's interesting take on Gen.Z:

Generation Z “Cleansing” Of America Nears As US War Dead Gravestones Face Obliteration Threat

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index2416.htm

Blogger liberranter October 21, 2017 7:11 PM  

Keep the white man and the negro separate, in separate congregations.

Most "churches" today being devoid of any genuine faith whatsoever (and therefore not being real Christian churches), this would in no way be a bad thing.

Anonymous johnc October 21, 2017 7:21 PM  

@39 Until I walk into a church and it's just a bunch of guys lifting weights, cleaning guns, training MMA, and making chain mail shirts with crusader crosses, church just won't be that interesting.

Read these:

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2014/02/27/peanut-butter-and-nutella/ Scroll down to Point 6.

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2013/06/03/q-what-is-wrong-with-fun-music-at-mass/

Anonymous bump stocks rock October 21, 2017 8:00 PM  

I don't understand why you hate Richard Spencer so much when the two of you seem to share similar ideas. Both of you think diversity and civic nationalism have failed. Both of you think the U.S. should be broken up into racially homogeneous zones.

Anonymous TS October 21, 2017 8:14 PM  

"I know the Asians are stereotyped as being good with numbers, but if pieces like this are any indication they certainly don't have any natural talents for logic."

They don't and don't need to since they have strong unionization among their tribe.

"I've never quite understood this "of color" nonsense. Do they really believe that all nonwhites are the same or that they can actually agree on anything? The difference between a Black and an Oriental is much further than the distance between a White and an Oriental."

That's a common YT mistake to think that. One the Jews capitalized on as well.

Blogger DonReynolds October 21, 2017 8:18 PM  

@55 Pteronarcyd
"It's rather difficult to separate culture from religion. One of the Founders' mistakes was not limiting freedom of religion to freedom of Christian religion, just as they should have specified that all White men are created equal."

I do not believe it was a mistake, but I am certain that is exactly what they intended. They lived in a rather small world and the only history they knew was pre-1770. The English Civil War was as much a distant memory to them as the US civil war has been to us. They were very aware of the age of Religious Wars, because they still lived in it.

When they talked about religious freedom, they were not talking about Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam or any of the pagan religions of the American Indians. Roman Catholic settlement was not permitted in many of the British Colonies. Maryland permitted it for a few years but the first colony to actually (permanently) adopt religious toleration was Pennsylvania. That was not imagined to be for non-Christian religions (except for the Jews) ...."people of the book".

"All Men are Created Equal" must be the most misunderstood phrase in the Declaration of Independence. The phrase does not mean the same to people today as it did at the time. At the time, it was a deliberate poke in the eye to King George III, who still insisted he ruled by the Divine Right of Kings. The Revolutionaries were being deliberately disrespectful and insulting to the King and his authority....to whom the Declaration was addressed. It did not mean that the Founding Fathers thought their Negro slaves were the equal of white men, or that Irish was the equal of the English, or that the Spanish were welcome in the colonies, or that American Indian tribes could vote in the next election. (In fact, the first labor strike in the colonies was by Polish glass blowers, who went on strike because they were not allowed to vote in Virginia.) Being white was simply not enough of a qualification in colonial America.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat October 21, 2017 8:19 PM  

A note here on the Catholic Church. My experience in 6 countries is that Catholic churches reflect pretty closely the racial or ethnic makeup of their location. No one drives 2 hours to a Korean, Filipino or French Catholic church unless it's a language issue. On top of that, the more "trad" the parish, the more racially diverse it is because WILL drive 2 hours to attend a traditional form, Tridentine or SSPX Mass. Maybe that applies to Orthodox Churches as well, no experience there.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat October 21, 2017 8:28 PM  

Excellent article by Taleb. Thanks for that.

Blogger Doc Rampage October 21, 2017 8:30 PM  

I don't see any evidence in that article, just an SJW who has burrowed into the evangelical community trying to destabilize things. Assuming that anything he says is true, such as that people of color are leaving evangelical churches, would be foolish.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat October 21, 2017 8:37 PM  

Agreed. See my post below for similar comment.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 21, 2017 8:38 PM  

On top of that, the more "trad" the parish, the more racially diverse it is because WILL drive 2 hours to attend a traditional form, Tridentine or SSPX Mass.

Trad Catholic parishes claim to have the absolute truth, and so won't be ethnically-based at all.

Because of this, trad Catholic parishes aren't very cohesive. To put it bluntly, it's not uncommon for several families who would otherwise have nothing to do with each other to attend the same priest's Masses because they want the sacraments. Sometimes they become friends that way, but it's definitely not the instinctive camaraderie that would exist in an ethnically-based religion. This is especially true if the families are of widely varying ethnicities.

It also explains the reluctance of ethnically-based Novus Ordos (Poles, French Canadians, etc.) to go trad. You'd suddenly be making yourself an outcast from your own community if you did that. It's not surprising at all that so many trads are Gamma (who can indulge their being persecuted Secret Kings) or Omega (who don't give a rat's posterior about social pressure and in-group loyalty).

Blogger Abyssus Invocat October 21, 2017 8:39 PM  

Agreed. See my post below.

Anonymous Pennywise October 21, 2017 8:40 PM  

"When they talked about religious freedom, they were not talking about Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam or any of the pagan religions of the American Indians."

You be wrong.

https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html

""All Men are Created Equal" must be the most misunderstood phrase in the Declaration of Independence. The phrase does not mean the same to people today as it did at the time."

It meant what it meant then and now. Remember, times change. Societies progress.

Anonymous Pennywise October 21, 2017 8:42 PM  

Pteronarcyd--Prove that Christianity is an exclusively white religion or retract your statement.

Blogger DonReynolds October 21, 2017 8:54 PM  

@75 Pennywise
""All Men are Created Equal" must be the most misunderstood phrase in the Declaration of Independence. The phrase does not mean the same to people today as it did at the time."

It meant what it meant then and now. Remember, times change. Societies progress.

Make up your mind.
Either the phrase means the same thing today as it did in 1776...OR "times change...societies progress".

Most certainly times change, but change today does not change anything that was said in 1776. You can morph society today, however you like, but don't pretend the morph was intended by the Founding Fathers.

Oh yeah....societies do not always progress. Some regress and some stay the same.

Anonymous URL IRL October 21, 2017 9:34 PM  

For all of evangelicalism’s existence, a disproportionate burden has been placed on communities of color to adapt, adjust, assimilate, and acquiesce to the white expressions of Christianity.

The gospel isn't tied to a specific culture or race, but "Evangelicalism" began with whites. It is a product of white culture. Yet I guarantee you white Evangelicals want to see "Evangelical" churches run by the native Africans and to see African culture expressed in the church. Same anywhere in the world.

The problem is not that whites are somehow placing a burden on POC (though maybe this was true in the Victorian era).

My suspicion is that it's an issue of resources. POC like this pastor want to be part of the "White Evangelicalsim" because that's where the money, power, recognition lies.

Anonymous FP October 21, 2017 9:36 PM  

Elmer Fudd wrote:@11 kh123

Excellent link. Corolla absolutely destroys this guy. And watching Philco (who's black) agreeing with Corolla is icing on the cake!


Corolla was interviewing Gavin Newsom, former mayor of SF and current Lt. Governor of CA.

Anonymous URL IRL October 21, 2017 10:00 PM  

Somewhat on topic: Willow Creek has appointed one of their women managers as co lead pastor when the founder retires.

The "Teaching Pastor" will be a man. Sounds like the woman will be a "CEO Pastor"?

Anonymous Random American October 21, 2017 10:30 PM  

Interesting how the solution to these "problems", no matter what the institution, is always to put "people of color" into positions of authority over whites so they can forcibly change what already exists to suit themselves. It's apparently impossible that a person should change themselves in order to join another pre-existing group, or that actual, genuine "diversity" could be honored, or that they could build something of their own if they're not satisfied. Nope, whitey must be ruled over by those who don't feel comfortable around whitey, or it's "racism".
Can somebody please bring a whip and chase the race-baiters from the temple?

Anonymous Small-souled Krugman October 21, 2017 10:34 PM  

Pteronarcyd- makes an argument that relates to the topic (even if it isn't a particularly strong one)

Pennywise- only ever makes bald assertions with no argument, often demanding others retract statements because they haven't 'proved' them according to his retarded non-standards

@Pennywise, why do you even post here or anywhere you vapid goon?

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 21, 2017 11:27 PM  

An interesting race fact (in the USA): almost all Leftists are white, and the Leftist subgroup of SJWs are almost exclusively white. I think the main distinction between the bog standard Leftist and the SJW is that the SJWs are close to 100% mentally ill. The SJW attributes of lying, projecting, and doubling down relate to their choosing not to confront their mental illnesses.

Very, very (((white))) indeed, with not a few good-hwytes who are there for the chance to try out for the bosses' (((cashing couch))), kind of like the many shiksas who performed for (((Harv the Hutt))) over the decades. Of course, there are all those "natural conservatives" like BLM, La Raza and the various representatives of the Religion of Love and Peace who are lined up with the SJWs as well. They're all part of the SJWs FSA (free shit army) who are in it for the loot and the booty.

Blogger wreckage October 21, 2017 11:38 PM  

Reality: Coloured people are preferring coloured churches where they feel at home.

SJW: coloured people are stupid and wrong and not responding to White Very Goodness, we will overcome this by higher doses of Very Goodness. Coloured people will prefer White Very Goodness over people they identify with as kin, once they realize just how Very Good it is.

Also, if coloured people form churches without whites in them, how will White Jesus be able to save them???

Blogger wreckage October 22, 2017 12:16 AM  

The horrible irony of "the left are the real racists" is that IT'S TRUE. Really, its failure as rhetoric indicates that literally nobody cares anymore. The SJW cause has turned into unabashed anti-white hatred, with every other people-group as acceptable collateral damage.

Anonymous Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2017 1:10 AM  

Small-souled Krugman wrote:Pennywise- only ever makes bald assertions with no argument, often demanding others retract statements because they haven't 'proved' them according to his retarded non-standards

Pennywise is not a man.

Anonymous Pepe the Frog October 22, 2017 1:29 AM  

@85
Turned into? It was never anything else. There was never anything else to it but self-hatred and the desire for oblivion, projected onto the rest of the White race by a (((Tribe))) that isn't really White in the first place. Not when they called themselves "community activists." Not when they called themselves "the Movement." Not when they called themselves "civil rights advocates." Not when they called themselves "abolitionists." Not one of their claimed causes, ever, had even the faintest shred of legitimacy. They lie. The truth is not in these people. Every word they say is a lie, including "a," "an," and "the."

They don't give a tinker's damn for the environment, "snivel rights" for the IQ-55 Lesser Breeds Without the Law, nor the security or safety of whatever IQ-55 Third World bandits and death-cultists we were bombing for trying to sink American ships or shooting SAMs at American aircraft. All of it has been a sham and a lie for the past century and more.

All of it is motivated by a desire to destroy Western social capital and "cultural hegemony" in order to bring about The Revolution. There was never anything else to these people. Ever.

Blogger Koanic October 22, 2017 2:31 AM  

In imitation of Judeo-Christ, Churchians wash the negroes' skins white as (slushy) snow in the blood of their (slutty) daughters' vaginas.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club October 22, 2017 2:48 AM  

And what is the PoC-marked perspective on the horrors of self-segregated churches? For what exactly are they looking?

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 22, 2017 4:19 AM  

wreckage,

the greater irony is that the only way white folks can stop this lunacy now is to slaughter many of those other people groups ...

Blogger stevo October 22, 2017 8:59 AM  

That conversation is extremely frustrating and satisfying at the same time

Blogger wreckage October 22, 2017 9:40 AM  

@90, I doubt it. If the US degenerates into civil war it MIGHT be Brits versus Hispanics. Any black v white war is already over.

And the Brits v Hispanics is a non-starter in the near term if the people of the US are given a vote on border control; the entire current disaster and its potential bloodbath endpoint exist because the Cuckservatives and the Left have arranged a neat little political cartel that prevents democratic self-correction.

As soon as a vote on border control is permitted, it will be won by the pro-control side. That might not prevent long term demographic-driven conflict, but it will create a massive shift in the short term, with momentum switching abruptly to the nationalist side and staying there for a generation.

Anonymous Avalanche October 22, 2017 11:29 AM  

@59 "I've never quite understood this "of color" nonsense. Do they really believe that all nonwhites are the same or that they can actually agree on anything?"

Oh, that one is EASY: they all AGREE on hating Whitey and wanting everything we've built, for free! (Oh, and we should stick around as slaves to keep everything running, since they cannot! MOAR GIBS MOAR GIBS!!)

Anonymous FrankNorman October 22, 2017 11:48 AM  

And yet another thread wrecked by alt-retard “Koaniac”...

Anti-Semite, check.

Daily Stormfag style guide, check.

Swastika panties Gab account, check.

Fed informant, probable.

Anonymous Charlie Baud October 22, 2017 12:54 PM  

@ 39

"Until I walk into a church and it's just a bunch of guys lifting weights, cleaning guns, training MMA, and making chain mail shirts with crusader crosses, church just won't be that interesting. "

So the problem with church is your a retarded, weekend-warrior simpleton who demands constant gratification and cheap entertainment to maintain his interest in anything.

People like you are the reason American churches have constantly dumbed themselves down to appeal to the degenerate, NASCAR-watching, beer-swilling masses. You don't want a spirituality, you want a product like the cheap entertainment sold to you by charlatan faggots like Vince McMahon and Dana White. The reason the church thrived for so long after the industrial revolution up until the 60's was because it resisted appealing to the cheap impulses of a mongrelized mind like yours.

But nevermind looking for the spiritual enlightenment that our ancestors had, go watch your bread and circuses.

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 22, 2017 2:15 PM  

Is there really any Christianity left in the west at all? Let's take a couple of examples to emphasize the question.

France.
The following summary is very telling. As can be seen by at least one example cited, France was already degenerate by the time of Queen Victoria. Keep in mind that it was nominally Catholic then (though a secular state), and this was long before Vatican II. Most of the vulgarity passing as art is post WW II, but the interesting point raised by the article is that the church - even when there were folks in the pews - did nothing whatsoever to oppose it. Interestingly, the genesis of Vatican II itself was from France, authored by the (((same folks))) who have a long history of promoting pornography and vice of every type imaginable. Yet now, (((one of the tribe))) creates a vulgar piece with references to the 'animal husbandry' practiced by the Musloids which have been imported with the support and endorsement of the (((tribe itself))), and the "art" is suddenly deemed to be "obscene". Funny how that works, no? Piss of Musloids and they shut it down. Toss shit on Christian symbols and the various puppet regimes running the show in former Christendom rant about "free speech" (which is fictional anyway).

Murika
While all the cucks and churchians are extolling the virtues of dindus and their enriching vibrancy, they seem to be oddly silent about the latest church shooting, instead demanding that the Alt-right be shut down. At the same time, the dindu 'Christians' make their own position clear. While churchian cucks grovel to the SJWs over imagined sins of the past, they utterly ignore real genocide

Blogger Rashadjin October 22, 2017 7:53 PM  

@57

Lecrae remains a net positive...

I may have to qualify this more than I was expecting. Did some digging and watched an interview on Lecrae's new album.

He's...bowed to the social pressures of his environment. His album and turn towards black activism is a revisit to parts of his past that haven't been put to bed. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of it ten-twenty years down the road.

Not entirely hopeful there, as it was telling to watch him in the interview. Lecrae is a fence sitter in public life. He's got one foot trying to stay in socially respectable territory and one foot trying to be authentic. It's that "This is how I do me, but whatever, it's all good" sort of quasi-principled stance that's meant to be as inoffensive and mild as possible so as to avoid conflict and etc.

The biting irony is him lamenting a lack of nuance in America. He may be better than the average, but he's not that much better than the average. Real nuance would be a painful or infuriating experience for him. Lecrae showed some real ignorance and moments of cowardice in that interview.

Anonymous Charlie Baud October 22, 2017 11:20 PM  

@96

Real Christianity exists in the West. Poland, Austria, and Hungary are thriving with it, and don't forget about the likes of Bishop Williamson and the SSPX resistance. Then there are smaller churches not corrupted by philosemitism.

Your constant doom-saying gets tiresome.

Anonymous Charlie Baud October 22, 2017 11:51 PM  

@73

That seems to be a uniquely American problem. Not surprising, America was founded as a Whiggish/Judeo-Masonicnation intended to be used as a puppet state by Jewish bankers and Freemasons to subvert European Catholic civilisation.

https://fitzinfo.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/alex-jones-freemasonry-and-the-cult-of-constitution/
https://www.tumblarhouse.com/lounge/column/land-of-the-free

Part of this has been the destruction of the Catholic understanding of ethnicity, which can be seen in the post-war subversion and destruction of ethnic Catholic parishes by the social planners of the US government.

E. Michael Jones has talked about this at length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTrBXSwwsdI

But until America collapses and everyone reverts to their ethnic tribalism, I'll stick with my SSPX parish. It's better to stick with the authentic faith then to hang around with a bunch of neo-catholic liberals just because our ancestors came from the same place.

Blogger CM October 23, 2017 12:34 AM  

When can we start crying about cultural appropriation and brown supremacy?

This makes me so irate. I left my church because of this BS. If you want your own church, build your own church. Leave me to my hymns, traditions, and old white saints. I like them. If I didn't, I'd find a different church.

I wish women were permitted to speak in church, cuz if we were, I'd accept the offers to teach and give a nice little lesson on being a good neighbor and a good guest.

Blogger Sojourner October 24, 2017 11:48 AM  

TCOTW?

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