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Tuesday, October 03, 2017

So what is the matter with that?

In 2008, the Dalai Lama warned of the "danger" of one million Chinese immigrants increasing Tibetan GDP and enriching Tibet's culture:
The Dalai Lama claimed yesterday that Beijing was planning the mass settlement of 1 million ethnic Chinese people in Tibet after the Olympics with the aim of diluting Tibetan culture and identity.

Tibet's exiled spiritual leader also claimed that some of Asia's most important rivers which flow from the Tibetan plateau are being polluted and diminished by careless industrialisation and unplanned irrigation.

The Dalai Lama made the claims in an interview with the Guardian after a meeting yesterday with Gordon Brown at Lambeth Palace. He said the talks had been detailed and the prime minister had been helpful "in spite of his difficulties". The Dalai Lama said: "He met me and he showed genuine concern and he wants to help."

Downing Street said the discussion focused on talks due next month on Tibet's future between Tibetan representatives and Beijing officials. The prime minister is said to have stressed the importance of the Dalai Lama's pledge to oppose violence, not seek Tibetan independence, nor support a boycott of the Beijing Olympics.

The Dalai Lama said he feared the Chinese authorities could take a tougher line on Tibet after the Olympics, and possibly flood it with Han Chinese, the world's largest ethnic group.

The Dalai Lama said he had been informed by Tibetan residents that large areas of empty land had been marked out, as if for construction, in the past two years. "Then last year we received information - after the Olympics 1 million Chinese are going to settle in the autonomous region of Tibet," he said, adding the information came from a "military source" in Tibet.

"There is every danger Tibet becomes a truly Han Chinese land and Tibetans become an insignificant minority. Then the very basis of the idea of autonomy becomes meaningless."
What was the matter with that? Is Tibetan dirt any less magic than American dirt? Won't those Han Chinese become true native Tibetans, just indistinguishable in every way from other native Tibetans, in precisely the same way that a Han Chinese immigrant is every bit as American as the Daughters of the American Revolution?

I just don't see any problem here. We're are just one human race. Everyone is equal. What on Earth was the Dalai Lama complaining about?

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61 Comments:

Blogger artensoll October 03, 2017 11:05 AM  

The Dalai Lama is a deplorable racist. Obvs.

Blogger tz October 03, 2017 11:13 AM  

Maybe Pope Francis can convince him.

Anonymous Reenay October 03, 2017 11:18 AM  

So there was nothing wrong with white colonists colonizing the western coasts of Africa, since stepping onto African land made them as African as all these Africans that captured members of opposing tribes and sold them as slaves?

I think I like where this is headed...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 03, 2017 11:21 AM  

"So there was nothing wrong with white colonists colonizing the western coasts of Africa, since stepping onto African land made them as African as all these Africans that captured members of opposing tribes and sold them as slaves?"

Exactly y'all. Magic dirt is the shizzle.

Blogger Lazarus October 03, 2017 11:31 AM  

The ugly face of Anti-Hanism.

Blogger pdwalker October 03, 2017 11:43 AM  

Why not? It's what they are doing to Hong Kong, but on a smaller scale; not that there is anything wrong with that.

Anonymous Eduardo October 03, 2017 11:47 AM  

Oh so that explains why people from Hong Kong hates the Chinese.

Seriously what is up with the chinese? Is it a deep innate desire to rule the world? Or is it only the Chinese Government doing it's Zing?

Blogger Rabbi B October 03, 2017 11:49 AM  

Some Chinese are more equal than other Chinese.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 03, 2017 11:53 AM  


Seriously what is up with the chinese?


They are the only civilized people. Just ask them. Everyone else is here to learn from them or serve them. Seriously.

Blogger Phat Repat October 03, 2017 11:53 AM  

The Chinese loves them some good Nationalism, just not for anyone else.

Anonymous Jeff October 03, 2017 11:53 AM  

It's what they are doing to Hong Kong

Also Vancouver.

Anonymous Philalethes October 03, 2017 11:55 AM  

The only nation in Asia that managed to avoid colonization during the imperial period was Thailand, whose wise and clever King Chulalongkorn (a monk in his youth as was Thai custom) managed to play off the two empires – British and French – who wanted to eat his country, and maintain a shaky but persistent independence.

Tibet also was the object of imperial appetites – Chinese, Russian, British – and did manage for a while to hold them off under the leadership of the Great 13th Dalai Lama, who once avoided capture by the Chinese by fleeing temporarily to British India. He warned his countrymen about the Chinese danger, and it is said that he deliberately died early so that his successor would be old enough to deal with the coming crisis.

However, Tibet's ruling class was too busy squabbling over the regency between the death of the 13th and the majority of the 14th Dalai Lamas to pay any attention to the outside world – until it arrived in Lhasa in the form of Mao's Red Army.

Thus was Tibet betrayed by its own ruling class. Sound familiar?

Blogger Cail Corishev October 03, 2017 11:57 AM  

Everyone else is here to learn from them or serve them.

Sounds familiar.

Anonymous Eduardo October 03, 2017 11:58 AM  

So the sturmers will go from the Joo's to the Rãs!

The Rãs didit!

I can see it now, "why after we won we still suck! One word: Rãs!"

The Rãs Question!

Blogger Salt October 03, 2017 12:01 PM  

Big hitter, the Lama.

Blogger Ransom Smith October 03, 2017 12:14 PM  

Hasn't the Dalai Lama become more or less persona non grata amongst the left?

Anonymous fop October 03, 2017 12:14 PM  

Think of all the great Chinese restaurants you'll have right in your own neighborhood, Mr. Lama.

Blogger James October 03, 2017 12:17 PM  

The left loves to trot out 'religious" type representatives to sanctify their agenda, even though the left doesn't believe in religion. The Dalai Lama has served that role in the past, since Buddhism is a religion with nothing in common with Christianity. It's concept of God is nebulous enough to show that one is "spiritual" but not concrete enough to have absolute standards. Declaring Buddhism good and Christianity bad has served the left well. Look for the Dalai Lama to lose some of "his holiness" cred by opposing the left's agenda of one world government/one world race.

Anonymous CPEG October 03, 2017 12:32 PM  

I have been reliably assure that there can be no negative repercussions, because everybody's blood is the same color.

Anonymous Ledfordbot October 03, 2017 12:32 PM  

It's long past time we had a conversation about Tibetan xenophobia. We can take hope that as older generations of Tibetan nativists meet their reward, Tibetan millenials will forge a more just and tolerant society. They are, after all, the most diverse generation in Tibetan history.

Anonymous Ryan October 03, 2017 12:43 PM  

The best western analyst of Tibet is Spandrell. Lots of history and cynicism

https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/the-informed-position-on-tibet/

Anyway, to the point: was China right to invade Tibet? The question is: how could it not invade Tibet? China had good reason to think that Tibet would become an Indian, and indirectly a British, or at least Western vassal. Why would China not grab a huge swath of land populated by a handful of people, which could perhaps contain some natural resources, but most importantly, was a hugely useful strategic asset? Of course Mao seized Tibet. That’s how the world works. Do you know both the Yellow River and the Yang-Tse both start in Tibet? And the Mekong, and the Indus, and the Bhramaputra, and the Salween. China is supposed to leave that alone? Come on.

Is the world worse off without Tibetan Buddhism having a sovereign state of their own? That I don’t know. As for the religion itself; I find it all to be pointless drivel, to be honest. Probably better than Chinese Communism, which is positively toxic. But Tibetan culture was pretty crappy, all things considered. It suited them well, for a thousand years, until it didn’t, because we entered the industrial age, and the military equilibrium changed. You are not allowed to have your own idiosyncratic culture and do your thing these days. Everybody is on everybody’s nerves, and looking for ways to take advantage and fuck with you.

Personally, I think it’s probably for the best that China was able to seize Tibet and achieve a better strategic position as a sovereign nation. China is very, very Westernized these days, more than I like, but it’s an independent state, one of very few on Earth today. If Tibet had to be sacrificed for that, well tough luck. Their culture was ok but not that interesting really, and at any rate that’s the world we live in. And there’s always pleasure in sticking it to USG and that insufferable contractor of theirs, the Dalai Lama.

Moldbug talked of the Patchwork of neocameralist nations. Pope Francis (!) talks of a Polyhedron of independent nations, all doing their thing. I think Scott Alexander had something similar. The idea of letting the hundreds flowers bloom, having a myriad cultures all doing their thing is of course a good and noble one. I’d rather we had more different cultures competing on this planet, instead of the rapidly declining death-cult of the modern Progressive state. I do feel Tibetans should be allowed to keep doing their monastery thing, dress in yellow, rape young monks and call Mongol mercenaries to burn rival monasteries. I find the Tibetan script to be very beautiful, even though they only use it to write pointless drivel. So I’m a little bit sorry that Tibetan culture couldn’t survive. And most Chinese I know would rather Tibetans stayed home. Tibetans are rough, high-T, low IQ people. The gypsies of China, in a sense. They’re also smooth with the ladies, good singers, dancers, and all that. They are a really, really bad fit in China. For everyone’s benefit they should have their own country and stay there.

Alas, this is the world we live on. There’s this thing called politics, and yes, foreign policy too. Bad people exist, they do bad things, and they force others to do bad things, sometimes preemptively, lest they do bad things to them first. Often it’s not very clear what is bad or whether it’s going to actually happen. Often foreign policy is used just as a way of achieving internal power. Shit happens. It will always happen. We can’t wish it away. All we can do is study it.

Blogger pdwalker October 03, 2017 12:50 PM  

Eduardo, the HK Chinese are different culturally from the mainlanders. A mix of Shanghainese and Southern Cantonese who are proud of their successes under British rule. Many of these people are descended from, or directly escaped from, Communist rule after WWII.

Since the handover, the mainland government has been slowly increasing the amount of mainlanders allowed to live in HK, or visit, which drives up prices for everything, especially property. Also, everything now, from news, legislators, laws, education are all being steadily slanted towards being pro Beijing, but at a pace that causing friction.

The mainland government wants all Chinese to be good, nationalist Chinese, so little annoying groups going around saying, "yes, we are Chinese, but different" pisses off the Central government.

I think it'll take another 40-60 or so years for integration to complete, long enough for those nostalgic for the past to mostly die off. (Barring unforeseen circumstances, of course).

In the Chinese mind, you are always Chinese, no matter how many generations spent apart, and all Chinese are destined to be ruled by the one true legitimate government.

(In my opinion)

Blogger DonReynolds October 03, 2017 1:09 PM  

Dalai Lama's pledge to oppose violence, not seek Tibetan independence, nor support a boycott of the Beijing Olympics.
"There is every danger Tibet becomes a truly Han Chinese land and Tibetans become an insignificant minority. Then the very basis of the idea of autonomy becomes meaningless." (Dalai Lama)

Sooooo.....He will not seek Tibetan independence because it would be meaningless, when up to your armpits in Han Chinese "immigrants". I do not know why. Neither China or Tibet have any experience with democracy, so from the standpoint of law, public policy, and government, it makes virtually no difference which ethnic is the most numerous. Such things only matter in a democracy.

Thank goodness, the USA is not a democracy, nor was it ever intended to be a democracy, though there are those who would make it one. The only way a democracy can defend itself from being invaded and taken over is by military force, otherwise it is vulnerable to invasion from without and the passions of the moment from within.

Democracies have a disturbing tendency to surrender to personality cults, coalitions, and insane fads....ending up as plutocracy, tyranny, dictatorship, and other forms of totalitarianism.

Blogger lannes October 03, 2017 1:13 PM  

The Han did the same thing in Sinkiang years ago.

Anonymous Philalethes October 03, 2017 1:19 PM  

@18: "The superior man, in speaking of what he does not know, shows a cautious reserve." – Confucius, Analects XIII:III:4

Blogger Arthur Isaac October 03, 2017 1:28 PM  

Clearly the Dalai Lama is a bigot.

Blogger DonReynolds October 03, 2017 1:29 PM  

Eduardo wrote:Oh so that explains why people from Hong Kong hates the Chinese.

Seriously what is up with the chinese? Is it a deep innate desire to rule the world? Or is it only the Chinese Government doing it's Zing?


Historically, the Chinese have never thought in terms of taking over the world nor have they ever tried to do so. Napoleon said..."While China sleeps, the world trembles." But that would only make sense if the Chinese were like Europeans, which they are not and never have been.

The word "China" means the center of the universe. They already think of themselves as the most advanced civilization, surrounded by barbarians and savages. They have no interest in sharing their country with anyone, which they would be doing by ruling the entire planet. They are perfectly satisfied to be the most civilized nation in a barbaric world. For many centuries, Chinese influence and culture spread through migration and trade, not by military conquest. You can decide for yourself which is better.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J October 03, 2017 1:31 PM  

#dontfreetibet

Das raciss.

I love this stuff. Hard to push on my circle but necessary, I think.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 03, 2017 1:31 PM  

@24
The Han did the same thing in Sinkiang years ago.

Yes, and in current year Xinjiang Chinese police have ordered Muslims to hand in copies of the Koran and prayer rugs.

The spokesman for the exile World Uyghur Congress group, Dilxat Raxit said they received a notification saying that every single ethnic Uyghur must hand in any Islam-related items from their own home.

Copies of the Koran and related items must be handed into the government authorities, and there are will be notices being broadcast via WeChat, China's most popular social media app.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J October 03, 2017 1:38 PM  

I had a brief encounter with a native Han this past weekend. He came here as a child of five or six, speaks fluent mandarin and teaches his Hapa girls to do so. He married a beast of a woman, and I am trying to be charitable.

His attitude was one of the quiet conqueror. Biding his time, seeding his crops. I rather admired it, in its ruthlessness and long-game view. Doesn't mean he won't have to go back, but we should learn from him and his particular ilk.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 03, 2017 1:40 PM  

Dalai Hana?

Blogger #6277 Hammer October 03, 2017 1:42 PM  

Who whom

Blogger Johnny October 03, 2017 2:06 PM  

>>Thus was Tibet betrayed by its own ruling class. Sound familiar?

Yea.

>>Hasn't the Dalai Lama become more or less persona non grata amongst the left?

As far as I can tell nobody much gives a rip about him any more.

>>Of course Mao seized Tibet. That’s how the world works.

Yea.

>>As for the religion itself; I find it all to be pointless drivel, to be honest.

Right again.

>>So I’m a little bit sorry that Tibetan culture couldn’t survive.

There is a tendency to treat culture as being its visual display. The important part of culture is how it influences behavior. When circumstance changes that can become irrelevant or damaging. In the case of Tibet modern circumstance reduces the whole thing to nonsense. What is left of it, really, is the visual display, and I suppose some primitives living in rural areas.


>>Historically, the Chinese have never thought in terms of taking over the world.

Could be this is a Chinese tendency, but there is also geography. Prior to modern transportation methods, the country was landlocked by the difficult terrain that surrounds the major river systems.

>>Chinese police have ordered Muslims to hand in copies of the Koran.

They are coming down on Christianity also, but I don't think to this extent. If it were up to me I would crush Islam by whatever means necessary, and discourage Christianity.

Blogger Sheila4g October 03, 2017 2:12 PM  

@30 Midnight Avenue J: "His attitude was one of the quiet conqueror."

One sees this a lot with Han in America. The Hindus are not in the least quiet about it, but rather openly smug. They unequivocally declare Whites to be lazy, undisciplined, and careless in their mating choices (besides which all Whites are at fault for the Raj). The Mohammedans, at least here in Texas, are also in no way "quiet conquerors." They are openly hostile and triumphalist - Whites are destined to be their slaves. Whereas the Han don't really foresee a future role for most Whites at all. They simply continue immigrating to every corner of the globe and propagate as much as economically feasible in the given environment. Most here have at least three children, all raised by their US taxpayer-supported grandparents.

Anonymous Tipsy October 03, 2017 2:21 PM  

I remember a situation years ago, when the Dalai Lama was meeting with pope JPII. Progressive activists, who presumed that the DL was on their side with regard to sexual morality asked the DL to educate JPII on the licitness of homosexual acts. The DL, agreeing with JPII, responded that homosexual acts were indeed illicit, using the standard natural law argument (no surprise).

Funny thing was, though, that the progressive mantra never changed: Christianity was homophobic and Buddhism wasn't.

Blogger seeingsights October 03, 2017 2:24 PM  

As far as world leaders go, the Dalai Lama is pretty sensible. For example he expressed hope that Trump and Putin could work together on fighting terrorism.

Blogger seeingsights October 03, 2017 2:27 PM  

The Dalai Lama also said that too many refugees are going to Germany.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/31/the-dalai-lama-says-too-many-refugees-are-going-to-germany/

Being religious doesn't necessarily mean being naive.

Blogger Doc Rampage October 03, 2017 2:28 PM  

I've never seen such a persistent opposition to a straw man argument in my life. Is it really that satisfying to keep arguing against a position that literally no one holds?

Blogger Ron October 03, 2017 2:57 PM  

The Dalai Lama has to go back.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams October 03, 2017 3:04 PM  

I have it on good authority that Tibet has a rich culture, but certain other countries have none.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 03, 2017 3:12 PM  

The Dalai Lama also said that too many refugees are going to Germany.


Funny (in a dark way) how the Dalai Lama is consistently to the right of Fake Pope Francis. /smh

Blogger Ron October 03, 2017 3:14 PM  

Tibet needs a big beautiful wall.

Blogger Tallen October 03, 2017 3:26 PM  

China will diversify Tibet, and Africa too. #HanMasterRace

Blogger Robert Browning October 03, 2017 4:01 PM  

It is the Longshanks strategy. Tibetan people will be bred out of existence.

Anonymous Didas Kalos October 03, 2017 5:13 PM  

What's a Dali Lama?

Anonymous Jim October 03, 2017 6:18 PM  

China just ended it’s one child policy. Imagine billions more Chinese ready to populate the world.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd October 03, 2017 6:55 PM  

Didas Kalos wrote:What's a Dali Lama?

A llama drawn by a surrealist. And why is everyone spelling llama incorrectly?

Blogger Matamoros October 03, 2017 7:00 PM  

 John Guandolo, founder of Understanding the Threat, has insight into the possible Islamic connection to the Las Vegas massacre that the media don’t like to report.

http://barenakedislam.com/2017/10/03/the-fbi-has-already-closed-the-door-on-any-islamic-jihad-connection-to-the-las-vegas-shooting-massacre-but-this-former-fbi-counter-terrorism-expert-has-not/

Blogger Silly but True October 03, 2017 7:02 PM  

Thank god the U.S. at the behest of State Dept. communists in 1950 chose not to back the Dalai Lama and Tibet hanging them out to dry to the Chicoms while also facilitating our first CIA deaths in the line of duty.

Otherwise we would be standing with the Dalai Lana against all the good of diversity of his homeland.

Blogger weka October 03, 2017 7:32 PM  

Thank you for that joke. The pope is trying to covert Catholics to apostasy.

Priase God, to date he has been unsuccessful.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf October 03, 2017 7:44 PM  

I sometimes work in China. From my experience over the years, Chinese are beginning to soften on Tibet, at least the rich educated ones. That wasn't the case 10 years ago. I also notice many Chinese and Japanese feel sorry for what's become of the West. They seem more concerned with the moss of Western Civilization than most Germans or Australians I speak with. That's not true of a few Africans I know who seeth in cold rage at the Europeans, blaming them for the plight of modern day Africans.

Anonymous Just another commenter October 03, 2017 8:06 PM  

It reminds me of A modest Proposal (to improve the Congo's economy).

Blogger DonReynolds October 03, 2017 8:23 PM  

@33 Johnny
>>Historically, the Chinese have never thought in terms of taking over the world.

"Could be this is a Chinese tendency, but there is also geography. Prior to modern transportation methods, the country was landlocked by the difficult terrain that surrounds the major river systems."

I am certain you have heard of the Mongols, China's neighbor to the north. They were probably the most successful conquering forces in human history. Those natural barriers did not keep the Mongols from India, or Russia, or the Islamic Middle East, or even China itself....and that was 12th and 13th centuries, when natural barriers probably meant more than today.

Blogger pdwalker October 03, 2017 10:19 PM  

Jim wrote:China just ended it’s one child policy. Imagine billions more Chinese ready to populate the world.

Not exactly. There is still a one child policy, with some relaxed restrictions for married couples who themselves are both educated and are themselves single.

In truth, even those policies are flexible, if you have enough money.

(fact: I was in Southern China in a new development - and I was shocked by the number of families with 2 or 3 children in tow - yes, it was an affluent area)

Anonymous Anonymous October 03, 2017 10:38 PM  

The mongol hordes never conquered India. You are confusing them with the timurids who destroyed delhi plus the mogols, both of whom where muslims.

Anonymous Icicle October 03, 2017 11:09 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X48G7Y0VWW4

"And who do you think they give me? The Dalai. Lama. Himself."

The 12th son of the Lama...
The flowing robes...

Youtube comment: "Allegedly Jesse Ventura asked the Dalai Lama if he'd seen Caddyshack and he said no- then pulled Ventura to the side later and whispered "Gunga galunga." The 12th Son of Lama seems pretty tickled with the whole thing."

Anonymous Jack October 03, 2017 11:33 PM  

There are a handful of Tibetans who have gotten incredibly rich from the Chinese presence there. A friend of mine in China told me about meeting one at a club who was throwing money around, and drove off in a Ferrari. Likely his family owns some mines or some other business connected to natural resources there.

Slightly off topic but an interesting story I heard: After the Chinese invaded Tibet, they started drilling into one of the mountains considered sacred by the Tibetans, because it contains uranium. A highly adept yogi living on an adjacent mountain saw this. Because the mountain was considered to actually contain the soul or essence of the local people, what the Chinese were doing was, in his view, tantamount to mass murder. So the yogi did a special prayer which caused the mountain to collapse on the Chinese workers who were digging mines in it. The Chinese then abandoned the mountain as too unstable.

Afterword, the yogi went to turn himself in to the Chinese, because he himself had committed murder. He explained what he had done to the authorities, but they turned him away as obviously crazy.

Anonymous Jack October 03, 2017 11:42 PM  

The difference between Hong Kong people and the mainlanders just across the border is rather striking. I don't just mean their manners and dress, but physical differences. Supposedly Hong Kong people are just Guangdong Chinese, but after a while in China it becomes fairly easy to spot a Hong Konger vs a mainland Guangdong person. Part of the reason I'm sure is that Hong Kong people have for several generations now been better nourished than mainlanders, so their phenotype is healthier. But there seems to be more than that going on. Whatever the causes, the differences within a race can be as great as a the differences between races.

Blogger Anthony October 04, 2017 11:49 AM  

What do you have against Vulcans?

Anonymous Luke October 06, 2017 9:16 AM  

58. Anthony October 04, 2017 11:49 AM
"What do you have against Vulcans?"

Me, nothing. They're excellent air support weapons (carried by either fixed-wing or larger helicopter craft) for strafing large numbers of socialists/diversities/Muslims.

Anonymous Luke October 06, 2017 9:21 AM  

27. DonReynolds October 03, 2017 1:29 PM
Eduardo wrote:
Oh so that explains why people from Hong Kong hates the Chinese.

"Seriously what is up with the chinese? Is it a deep innate desire to rule the world? Or is it only the Chinese Government doing it's Zing?"


"Napoleon said..."While China sleeps, the world trembles."

My understanding of that quote was: "Let China sleep. For when she wakes, the world will tremble."

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