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Saturday, October 28, 2017

Tell us again how they are real Americans

Another civic nationalism fail:
Leaders at the church that George Washington attended decided that a plaque honoring the first president of the United States must be removed. Christ Church in Alexandria, Virginia will take down a memorial marking the pew where Washington sat with his family, saying it is not acceptable to all worshipers.

“The plaques in our sanctuary make some in our presence feel unsafe or unwelcome," leaders said, a reference to the fact that Washington was a slaveholder. "Some visitors and guests who worship with us choose not to return because they receive an unintended message from the prominent presence of the plaques.”
I attended that church several times in my youth. This is beyond outrage. This is a war on America. This is a war on history.

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220 Comments:

1 – 200 of 220 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Daniel Bendele October 28, 2017 5:51 PM  

wanted very much to attend that church. Read their website and decided on a hard pass. Not surprised by this decision at all. It's nigh impossible to find a decent church in NOVA (or anywhere for that matter).

Blogger Matamoros October 28, 2017 5:53 PM  

It is a beautiful church with a lot of history. I have attended it, and enjoyed walking through the property.

It is amazing how the leftists are more than ready and willing to throw overboard all the trappings of what has made us Americans.

They all need to go back!

Blogger Mark October 28, 2017 5:54 PM  

The separation of church and sanity.

Anonymous Musashi October 28, 2017 5:54 PM  

"unsafe"

Burn is down, burn it all down.

Blogger Assyrian Nationalist October 28, 2017 5:55 PM  

What a beautiful piece of history, only to be tossed away. Shameful.

Blogger Ransom Smith October 28, 2017 5:55 PM  

Alexandria

Oh boy am I about to rage. Northern Virginia is a blight upon the Commonwealth. Burn it with fire.

Blogger CM October 28, 2017 5:55 PM  

wanted very much to attend that church. Read their website and decided on a hard pass. Not surprised by this decision at all. It's nigh impossible to find a decent church in NOVA (or anywhere for that matter).

The only one I attend when I'm up in that area is Truro Church. I haven't been their in a few years, but pretty good when I was.

Anonymous Steve October 28, 2017 5:58 PM  

Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.

Blogger wisdom wizard October 28, 2017 5:59 PM  

Mr. Day, you've said all we need are twelve. We have more than twelve, but what should we do?

Blogger Meng Greenleaf October 28, 2017 6:04 PM  

Two ideas cane to mind:
1. The Shinto Shrine to the War dead had never bowed to peer pressure. All dead. Not just the politically correct dead.
2. Yakuza membership subserves a necessary function by policing low IQ behaviour. I'm positive its way less expensive, and more efficient, than policing.

OpenID paworldandtimes October 28, 2017 6:05 PM  

I attended someone's wedding there not too long ago. The plaque and the legacy it marked made the church that much more special.

Filthy, spineless people who went along with the decision to remove it.

PA

Blogger Mark October 28, 2017 6:09 PM  

#8 Thanks, Steve, for a glimpse of these babes. I'll bet neither "tricameral" nor "Trinity" is used much in their discourses.

Anonymous Do the locomotion October 28, 2017 6:16 PM  

Sometimes things in this culture would provoke me but these days none of it has any effect on me. Ive changed for the better i think. The only thing that gets my dander up a little is black guy with white girl but im starting to not even get bothered by that. Big whoop heavens to Betsie black guy with white girl. So what. Good for them. I have bigger fish to fry then worry about that. Soon nothing in this culture will ever be able to bother me.

OpenID paworldandtimes October 28, 2017 6:19 PM  

So what. Good for them.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less [...]; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
— John Donne, from Meditation 17 (1624)

Anonymous JAG October 28, 2017 6:21 PM  

Steve wrote:Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.



There you have it. The source of this problem. Won't be long before they stop with any pretense of scripture as Jesus himself will "make people uncomfortable."

Never attend a church with an all female leadership.

Blogger weka October 28, 2017 6:22 PM  

Proves women ruin everything.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 28, 2017 6:23 PM  

"Some visitors and guests who worship with us choose not to return because they receive an unintended message from the prominent presence of the plaques.”

Translation from the Episcopal Cuckrisitian:

Like any Episcopal Church that has chosen to stay with the Anglican Communion we only get about twelve worshipers on any given Sunday. So we really can't afford to lose anybody.

Also it should be noted that these days, we are more of a Left wing social club than an actual church. Jesus is an optional extra so far as we are concerned so you can imagine how we feel about George Washington.

What we really want to do is virtue signal by tearing down a Confederate monument but we don't have one.

Washington will have to do.

Blogger Elder Son October 28, 2017 6:24 PM  

Look! Millions of MAGA-ites are OUTRAGED! OUTRAGED I tell you! Silently sitting at home this very minute, sharpening their combat knives and honing their garrote skills!

It happens, because 300 Million + Americans let it happen, despite whatever number of them may be MAGA-ites.

Blogger Cecil Henry October 28, 2017 6:27 PM  


SJW Virtue Signalling: Churchianity version

Virtue Signalling is no virtue. Its theft: of people's lives, their past and future.


The West, including Canada and America, is not and never was intended to be, a place for "all races and nations".

To claim that it is, or was, is a direct attack on the identity, legitimacy, and existence of the Western people.


https://i.imgur.com/gevCTM0.png

Blogger Ned October 28, 2017 6:29 PM  

OT, but one wonders when they will remove that Hollywood sign for similar reasons.

Anonymous Bobby Farr October 28, 2017 6:29 PM  

These are real Americans. They may be self-loathing cucks but their American ethnicity (at least among the leadership) seems unquestionable.

Blogger Doom October 28, 2017 6:30 PM  

But, it does fit that church. Are churches required to be pro-American? Most aren't, but then most government workers, bureaucracies, and politicians seem to be rather ambivalent or worse, which is why Trump won, and the wall as focus. *cough*

Is that your faith? If so, you know what you can do. If not you still have options. It is what I expect from converged or goverment contracted churches. If not owned and operated by Uncle Sam, many are majority .gov run. I stopped giving when I realized I was so outbid my church was giving to acorn, pro-abort groups, other socialist and communist groups. I wonder if L. Flynn was getting money. My church gets, just from U.S., a $B a year, often to bring in muslims for an allowance to bring in even more, if false, of it's own.

If you are helping feed the corruption, that is your choice. If Rome wants to subvert faith to Roman Emperical will? Let them cover the whole of the cost. Find right charities to support. Something most churches have quit, save as .gov drones. A .gov weaponized against it's (their, all Western .govs) peoples.

Churches ARE NFL.

Blogger Salt October 28, 2017 6:31 PM  

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

Close enough.

Anonymous URL IRL October 28, 2017 6:33 PM  

priestesses ruin everything

Blogger Lazarus October 28, 2017 6:33 PM  

To be fair, what if the plaque suddenly reached out and enslaved someone?

What if it was a child!!

Of course no one can feel safe there, you unempathetic cads.

Blogger Doom October 28, 2017 6:34 PM  

Even if your_church(tm) is not converged, does it send money to a central office? Have you ever gotten a glimpse into that culture?

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 28, 2017 6:35 PM  

@8

I think this gif is appropriate:

https://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2016/04/232389_c36c4c08928cc1dd921fa173e1197cfe.gif

Anonymous Philalethes October 28, 2017 6:38 PM  

@8: Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.

Two thousand two hundred years ago (that's 100 generations), the crusty old Roman Cato the Elder wrote:

If you allow [women] to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they are your fellows, they will become your masters.

Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

They're so fond of the complainers, they can be repatriated with them. Good article at Unz about how much nicer it is there: Solving the NFL’s Anthem Crisis: Send Them to Africa.

Anonymous Raker Tooth October 28, 2017 6:40 PM  

America can choose not to follow God, but that doesn't mean we get to choose the consequences. I like this Alt-Right stuff because it's refreshing to see the clarity manifested in action. But it's only one hand, in a return to the wall building story. One hand on the sword, the other building the wall. If we don't get Christ back, the then we have no wall.
I'm coming around to the idea that our worst blow happened in 1865, but the early 1960's was the last straw, He left. Whoever offends one of these little ones would be better with a millstone about his neck; and to be thrown in the sea. We must undo the educational changes of that time, probably do away with public education altogether.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 6:42 PM  

There has to be a middle ground between the extremist crowd that claims that Christians have every right to own other human beings as slaves AND the other extremist crowd that refuses to see any virtue at all in people who, being products of their own era, did
not fully appreciate the enlightenment that was only just beginning to dawn, slowly, in Paul's letter to Philemon.

I can imagine some Christians in that semi-enlightened era rationalizing their purchases at the slave action with the thought, "Well, if I don't buy them, someone who will prove to be a cruel master might buy them instead." And the funny thing is, that rationalizing actually *did* spare some slaves--many slaves-- from suffering under harsh masters. God works in mysterious ways, so they say. It took articulate Christians like William Wilberforce to open Western Christians' eyes to things they were not ready to see in earlier times.

Blogger Stilicho October 28, 2017 6:50 PM  

At some point, Americans will be so fed up with them that they won't be allowed to go back.

Anonymous URL IRL October 28, 2017 6:51 PM  

I would support taking it down on the principle that God is not a respecter of persons. Worldly honor has no currency in God's economy.

Blogger Cloudbuster October 28, 2017 6:52 PM  

JAG wrote:Steve wrote:Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.



There you have it. The source of this problem. Won't be long before they stop with any pretense of scripture as Jesus himself will "make people uncomfortable."

Never attend a church with an all female leadership.


Never attend a church with any female leadership.

Anonymous Haxo Angmaerk October 28, 2017 6:55 PM  

No, it is not a war on 'Murka.

that's long gone.

it's a Judeo-globalist war on Whites.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain October 28, 2017 6:55 PM  

Ya know, I knew this was coming, but I didn't know I'd still be this angry.

Blogger Zaklog the Great October 28, 2017 6:56 PM  

They chose not to return? Then the correct response is "Good riddance". If you want to translate that to Christian-ese, then the response is to shake the dust from your feet.

Blogger Cloudbuster October 28, 2017 6:56 PM  

Maybe they should remove all crosses and Bibles, because they, too, might offend someone. And what's with "Christ" in the name? That's patriarchal and exclusive of people who are spiritual yet who do not worship Christ.

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2017 7:01 PM  

@30-"did not fully appreciate the enlightenment that was only just beginning to dawn...in that semi-enlightened era..."

This "enlightenment" of which you speak, what does it have to do with Christianity, exactly? Apart from having clearly been destructive of belief. But nevermind that part.

Some of it is in keeping with the faith, some of it even helped push its teachings forward. But you speak as if the light that was dawning is synonymous with the light of God. As if human "progress" were by definition progress in the good sense, like tendentious Enlightenment-backers would have you accept as a given.

If you think abolitionism was good and Christian and made for a better world, fine. But with that Age of Enlightenment just dawning also came all the bad stuff. Atheism, communism, the upside-down, backwards world in which we live. And historic churches run by the broads you see on the webpage linked to in a comment above.

Blogger Zaklog the Great October 28, 2017 7:01 PM  

@8 Not a single man listed among their pastoral leadership. No wonder they're so eager to sell out their history. I suspect that St. Paul would have some choice words (including "cursed by God") for the "gospel" they preach at that "church".

Anonymous Charlottesvillain October 28, 2017 7:03 PM  

A Trump tweet about this would produce another NFL-type win.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 7:03 PM  

@38 tublecane There's a difference between "enlightenment" and "Enlightenment," oh musical one. That's why I didn't capitalize it.

Anonymous Coalfiredbrisket October 28, 2017 7:08 PM  

Protestantism was a mistake. Indulgences are preferable to this.

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2017 7:10 PM  

Notice they don't bother telling us why people supposedly felt unsafe or unwelcome. "They" being both those behind the news item and the church "leaders," as quoted. If I read the full statement I doubt they'd expand on the point.

I suppose we don't need to know. Some combination of slave-owning and being a Stale Pale Male. But that wouldn't really make anyone feel "unsafe," I don't think. That's just a lie.

We know it's a lie, as do they, presumably. That we don't feel the need to go through the charade of explanation may be a good thing. Or maybe we're so conditioned to expect the memory-holing of Legacy America that no one presses for explanation, which is a bad thing.

But it's also good that PC-dom is throwing its weight around willy-nilly, because they're overreaching. The general public isn't as obedient as it needs be to accept their imperiousness long-term.

Blogger GithYankee October 28, 2017 7:12 PM  

Would it be better for alt-right christians to start new churches, or take back existing ones?

Blogger Lazarus October 28, 2017 7:12 PM  

Cloudbuster wrote:Never attend a church with any female leadership.

Or male leadership consisting of wolves in sheep's clothing.

This is why I don't attend any church.

Anonymous FoxOntheRun October 28, 2017 7:14 PM  

I like how the "Senior Associate Rector" (one of the many women/lesbians running the show there), has more on her bio about Hollywood, than the Gospel.

I've been to that Church, and like all Episcopal churches now in the US (fake Anglicans), they are the White Gentile Equivalent to a Reformed Synagogue. It's where the cool liberals go to be "religious" and "spiritual n' stuff!"

Once the lawsuits were resolved, mostly AGAINST the historical Anglican congregations in Norther VA (and the rest of the country following), they turned into Wiccan covens for the upper class Whites who were too sophisticated and old-money to do that "universal Unitarian" stuff (which tends to attract lower end and/or weird jews and white lower middle class and lower end gays.)

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2017 7:16 PM  

@41!What was the "enlightenment" just beginning to dawn, in that case? And why did it start dawning around the same time as the Enlightenment?

William Wilberforce, for one, was both an evangelical convert and relatively conservative. But abolitionism in general was tied to political radicalism, obviously. And the modern-day progressive you don't need to be a Moldbug to realize descended from reawakened and revigorized Christian radicals from the pre-Enlightenment and Enlightenment eras.

Anonymous CitizenOutkast October 28, 2017 7:21 PM  

Steve wrote:Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.

What a bunch of Nazi white supremacists. Not a single person of diversity! Why aren't people protesting this obvious lack of tolerance? Why isn't the congregation demanding more blessed diversity at the top? Hitler-loving bigots, to be sure.

Anonymous Laz October 28, 2017 7:21 PM  

"It happens, because 300 Million + Americans let it happen, despite whatever number of them may be MAGA-ites. "

200 Million+. 100 Million (give or take) need to go back.

Blogger themightypuck October 28, 2017 7:22 PM  

Telling everyone what they already know but may have forgotten. http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/hoax/churchengland.htm

Blogger Shamgar October 28, 2017 7:23 PM  

Also, woman ruin everything. Again.

Blogger liberranter October 28, 2017 7:24 PM  

It's Episcopalian, no?

That would explain everything and, if we've been paying any attention to what has been happening in that denomination over the last few decades, shouldn't be the least bit surprised.

Think of it this way: Washington would be kicking his crypt apart in a fit of righteous rage if he could see what has happened to his church. In fact, he very likely would no longer be a member of it and would probably also DEMAND the removal of the memorial plaque, or any other sign of his past association.

Blogger K Madison1 October 28, 2017 7:25 PM  

This church is beautiful. Robert E. Lee attended there as well. The Episcopal church is littered with SJWs and deserves to fail at this point. Take a look at who's in on the refugee racket... The Episcopal church is in the top five along with the Catholic church and the Lutheran church. It's time to start the Church of the Alt-Right. CAR. I'd attend!

Blogger Nobody of Consequence October 28, 2017 7:28 PM  

Everything these people have is a direct consequence of Washington's efforts. Time for the posterity to take back our land and kick these interlopers out.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat October 28, 2017 7:42 PM  

Love the biography of the "Senior Associate Rector". This isn't a church, it's a joke.

Ann Gillespie

SENIOR ASSOCIATE RECTOR

Ann is Senior Associate Rector. Ann brings to parish ministry a 20-year career as an actress in television and theater and 12 years as a yoga teacher"

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 7:42 PM  

@41 @38 @30 Tublecane.tublecane wrote:@41!What was the "enlightenment" just beginning to dawn, in that case? And why did it start dawning around the same time as the Enlightenment?

What kind of timeline are you using, Tublecane? The lower case "e" enlightenment, inspired by the Holy-Spirit-sent-to-be-Our-Counselor-Who-Will-Lead-Us-Into-All_Truth, dawning in Philemon with respect to the institution of slavery, occurred more than a millennium before the upper case "E" Enlightenment movement started by atheistic or Deistic French philosophes, and it owes them nothing. The best and truest notions of those philosophes were influenced by the tradition of charity that was ushered in by the Christians, not the other way around.

Anonymous Jimbob October 28, 2017 7:52 PM  

K Madison1,

Is there a list of the pro-refugee churches? I'd love to see it.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 7:58 PM  

@38 I will agree that some progressive Christians (well, y'all would call them um.. Cuck-a-ristians, is it?) were influenced by concepts of the capital "E" Enlightenment, one of those ideas being the denial of a supernatural realm distinct from the natural one. And I don't want to belong to a church that holds to that denial; neither do I want to belong to a church that would re-legitimize the institution of slavery either, and I've seen more than a few regulars here who would cheer on such a development.

Hence my complaint in @30.

Blogger Stilicho October 28, 2017 8:02 PM  

What insensitive cultural appropriation!

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 8:03 PM  

So I follow my husband's lead, and decide on the basis of which church has the best pipe organ.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 28, 2017 8:13 PM  

White devil magic is so powerful that a statue of a man who has been dead for more than 200 years can bring back slavery. Best stay away from the white devils.

Anonymous Rambam October 28, 2017 8:16 PM  

Its time for mass excommunications.

Blogger Rashadjin October 28, 2017 8:22 PM  

Re: @58 - IreneAthena

I've been reading a lot of posts and comments on the blog for the past few weeks, and I've completely missed the part where re-legitimizing slavery was a thing. Even the bitter ones aren't going that far, partly because the institution of slavery is idiotic at this stage of economic development. The government needs to spend so many resources enforcing it and the work quality is so poor that it becomes a net drain, at least as far as the institution of slavery is generally understood. Debt and welfare slavery are slightly different matters, and nobody thinks they're good ideas around here either.

The reality is that Christianity started with the philosophical seeds that eventually ended slavery within the West. It merely took almost two thousands years for them to bloom as Christianity slowly transforming the cultures that fostered it.

So either be specific about the 'few regulars' who would like to re-legitimize the institution of slavery or understand that your emotional need to feel superior to the people around here is obvious and laughable.

Blogger Cetera October 28, 2017 8:22 PM  

Coalfiredbrisket wrote:Protestantism was a mistake. Indulgences are preferable to this.

This made me laugh, shake me head, and think, "Yep, damn, that's true." Needs to be a meme.

Blogger Kauf Buch October 28, 2017 8:24 PM  

I hear you. I'm from there (now in FL) and loved hanging out in the courtyard before going down to the Torpedo Factory. But Alexandria's always been the haven of Leftists (*sigh*).

Yes, this IS war.
BUT: on the bright side, "removing historic plaques" is what the Left has been reduced to in the Era Of Trump.

Winning!

Blogger Mom October 28, 2017 8:25 PM  

The link to the church was helpful. Just sent my letter to all of them:

I recently heard about your decision to take down the plaque honoring George Washington because of some that might feel unsafe or unwelcome.
My mother raised us in the Episcopal church and she would be disgusted at this. I can't believe you would be so bold as to thumb your noses at all your parishioners, alive and gone before, by this blatant act of anti-Americanism.
Was George Washington perfect? No, of course not, but he was a true American hero and a follower of Jesus Christ.
You need to study the history of this man and learn that his slaves were more like servants, than slaves. It's documented that, although he wanted to free them, they begged him not to because they knew they would be better cared for and protected by staying with him.
It is ignorant to judge those in a different time by our standards.
We are horrified by slavery; he'd be horrified that we allow pre-born babies to be hacked up or burned alive by saline solutions. He'd be shocked that an American city (Chicago) had over 700 murders in 2016. He'd judge us by having an industry in our modern day that hides serial sex offenders, rapists and pedophiles (Hollywood), with little to no repercussions.
How moral are we?!
And, please, no one believes that this plaque makes anyone feel unsafe. It's a plaque. If someone feels unsafe they have mental problems and need immediate help. If they feel unwelcome, that's you and your parishioners' fault. A plaque cannot be friendly, bring a meal to an elderly widow, or help a new mom learn the ropes of toddlerhood. A plaque is a reminder of things past.
George Washington was the father of this great nation. Well, once great nation. We are less likely to love God and obey His commandments. We're less likely to love our neighbors as ourselves. Our children are even less likely to.
Hmmmm, maybe our kids need someone to look up, one who could be an example of honesty, bravery, and godliness to help them be strong in a culture that allows murder of the unborn, perversion of every kind, and almost total corruption in the political and entertainment arena.
Thank you for the reminder that I need to do a thorough unit on George Washington.
My students, my children thank you!

Anonymous JAG October 28, 2017 8:27 PM  

OT: https://www.inquisitr.com/4583248/thousands-to-scream-at-the-sky-to-mourn-hillarys-election-loss-on-1-year-anniversary/

Leftists yell at clouds.

Blogger SteelPalm October 28, 2017 8:28 PM  

Daniel Greenfield had a fine article on the subject, noting that it was all about "welcoming" and "safe" spaces for those who hate America, while being unwelcoming for actual Americans.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/268253/george-washingtons-old-church-removes-plaque-daniel-greenfield

He also included some Tweets that explain the mindset of this SJW-converged monstrosity;

https://twitter.com/HistoricCC/status/918879057529462785/photo/1

https://twitter.com/HistoricCC/status/908406560845697024/photo/1

https://twitter.com/HistoricCC/status/895723375460528129/photo/1

https://twitter.com/RCUSA_DC/status/877141638249893888/photo/1

Blogger Dire Badger October 28, 2017 8:32 PM  

GithYankee wrote:Would it be better for alt-right christians to start new churches, or take back existing ones?

The Minute John or Jesus shows up to Baptize me, I am on it.

Churches lost the "Mandate of Heaven" 1800 years ago. Now you must find good priests, not good churches. They no longer exist.

Anonymous Who's ear? October 28, 2017 8:36 PM  

If anyone is ashamed of this country, our culture, our heritage, then I for one am ashamed that such people live among us.

I think that we, as a nation (while we still are a nation) should deal with them in the manner of our forebearers: When the revolution was concluded, thousands of royalists were forced to leave the US, forbidden by the States to ever return.

No other country in history can rival the US in the administration of justice, personal freedom safety and opportunity. I say that anyone who prefers the heritage of another should be removed to the third-world
paradise of his/her choice at taxpayer expense. There is ample historical precedent. The political/cultural schism has already become so vast that we are really two countries living int he same geographical area-- it's time to deal with that reality.

The founders wrote in the constitution that it was intended to preserve the blessings of liberty "for ourselves and our posterity." And let's face it many of those who hate America most are not in that category. Of those who are, I can only repeat Patrick Henry's sentiment: "May history forget that they were our countrymen."

It's time we re-grow a political backbone.

Blogger ZhukovG October 28, 2017 8:41 PM  

To my fellow Roman Catholics: Shut the hell up!

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 8:46 PM  

@63 Rashadjin, so you say you've been reading comments here for a few weeks. I've been reading them for more than a few years, but no one needs to go back that far to find comments insinuating that since Paul never listed slave-owning as sin, slavery is OK, the economic disadvantages you list notwithstanding. In fact, even without reading any comments at all, you can find inflammatory rhetoric like that within a page-down or so.

It's all a part of the debate, where people have motives for saying outrageous things that go beyond satisfying an "emotional need to feel superior." Sometimes it's just to get a rise out of folks. It seems I rang YOUR bell. Tee hee.

This place attracts quite the spectrum of opinion, I think you'll find as you spend more time here. Occasionally the host will feel the need to turn his blog "Prince Purple" for a day to give context to his rhetoric on race; to clear the temple of Nazi-LARPers so as to disabuse people of the notion that his objection to undue influence from AIPAC equates to anti-Semitism; to highlight female Japanese musicians lest anyone really believe that non-Whites have nothing but tacos to contribute to culture.

Anonymous Grayman October 28, 2017 8:46 PM  

This is beyond outrage. This is a war on America. This is a war on history.

Yes, yes it is and we owe them thanks. They are making it easy. Once things go hot they will have brazenly desecrated even the most basic of American symbols. In so doing they are making a fatal mistake.
Anyone even remotely associated with diversity, white or not is going to have a great big target on them. Hell they openly attack intact white families:

https://twitter.com/YeyoZa/status/924318319498485760?s=09

Whats more shocking then their blatant open attacks at this point is that its no different than South Africa but normalcy bias blinds the masses.

Blogger Lazarus October 28, 2017 8:47 PM  

Mom wrote:The link to the church was helpful. Just sent my letter to all of them:



Well done, and well put.

Blogger ZhukovG October 28, 2017 8:50 PM  

As for starting an Alt-Right Church there is no need. The (lowercase)catholic Church is the Alt-Right Church. Continue to work in your local congregations, but try to put together a group of like minded Men in your local area. The group should be non-denominational. You can meet as necessary to pray for and encourage one another.

It has been a great help to me.

Blogger Michael Maier October 28, 2017 8:50 PM  

Lazarus wrote:Cloudbuster wrote:Never attend a church with any female leadership.

Or male leadership consisting of wolves in sheep's clothing.

This is why I don't attend any church.


My kid brother starting attending a church his half-black friend runs. The friend's dad is apparently gay. I cannot help but wonder how that poisons that church.

Anonymous johnc October 28, 2017 9:05 PM  

You have to give the left credit. While everyone was busying themselves with bread and circuses, the left was busy taking over all the institutions.

Blogger Scott Birch October 28, 2017 9:05 PM  

They're on Twitter @HistoricCC.

Blogger Matt October 28, 2017 9:09 PM  

@johnc

Yeah they sure played the long game well. But now the curtains are down and normal people who dont feel sorry dfor hook-handed pedos and deranged trannys who are much more off putting than RuPaul can see and decide for themselves.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 28, 2017 9:10 PM  

This is how a conqueror treats the conquered, removing their memorials. And that is only the start; we know what follows.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 28, 2017 9:10 PM  

This is the problem with civic nationalism, there is no way to say, 'you're not a citizen.' If anyone should not be a citizen it's the people who scorn our first president.

Anonymous johnc October 28, 2017 9:15 PM  

And this coming in from France...: A court has ruled that a cross must be removed from a statue of Pope John Paul II. The PM of Poland has offered to take the statue fully intact.

Anonymous FoxOntheRun October 28, 2017 9:26 PM  

The Episcopal church is the epitome of the Volvo driving liberal. They are almost all white (they like to use stats that draw in African congregations), they are almost ALL OLD MONEY (It's the Bush family's legacy church), and they are almost completely gay now.

They are just running thru the old money before they completely crash. Most of the properties are, de facto, 'historical', given their placement geographically and culturally within colonialism. They might as well be stripping down the wood.

One of the things the Episcopal church did, very early on, was utilize SJW tactics, even before they were common--they had conventions in which they constantly demanded the other side (read: white, conservative, historical families with deep Anglo connections) "listen" to them. And they just kept talking and talking and accusing the other side of the usual ("old" "white" "stodgy", "homophobic, racist"), and having more meetings and conventions, until as the years went by, they implemented their world-view on the church.

Virtue Online has lots of good history of how they destroyed what was once Legit Anglicanism in the New World. Even ACNA will go this way, as I think they are allowing women priests and we all know what happens next.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain October 28, 2017 9:27 PM  

johnc wrote:And this coming in from France...: A court has ruled that a cross must be removed from a statue of Pope John Paul II. The PM of Poland has offered to take the statue fully intact.


They'll like next century's statue even less, of Charles Martel II.

Blogger tz October 28, 2017 9:31 PM  

The one thing about Church is although there can be sublime beauty in the windows and art, at the center, if it is about Jesus Christ is the cancelled cheque - a Crucifix that doesn't minimize the horror. (I only once saw something worse and that was a statue of Jesus scourged).

God IS Love but he will not be mocked.

Scripture gives its own warning:
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, (40) yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

If I hear once more that there is neither Jew nor Greek, so any recognition of difference is evil, I'm going to scream at the sky an uncharitable prayer to call lightening down. And go to confession afterward, especially if the one saying so is reduced to ash.

They seem to want to use the new verbal Mobius Pretzel translation. But that is knot Jesus.

IIRC, the Espicopalians are the remnants of the Anglican Church (of England), that was more liturgical than scriptural, and now seem to want to merely play "dress up" for something which has to degenerated into Barney the purple dinosaur, live.

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2017 9:33 PM  

@72. IreneAthena

You'd think after a couple years of reading you'd learn something about binary thinking.

Here's the deal: Owning a slave is not a sin. Slavery was not a sin. Is it a good idea to re-institute slavery? Hell no.

It's a bad idea, just like drinking bad booze, buying lotto tickets, and flirting with the town bicycle is a bad idea. Not a sin, but not recommended by any means.

Blogger Robert Browning October 28, 2017 9:39 PM  

Sure it is a war. But who is waging the war and for what purpose? The war does not and will not end until we all can name the people waging war and demand and explanation.

Blogger Lazarus October 28, 2017 9:41 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:It's a bad idea, just like drinking bad booze, buying lotto tickets, and flirting with the town bicycle is a bad idea. Not a sin, but not recommended by any means.

As ST. Paul put it in Corinthians 10:

"Everything is permissible," but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible," but not everything is edifying.

Anonymous Jack Amok October 28, 2017 9:42 PM  

Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.

Who's bitches are these?

Blogger Lazarus October 28, 2017 9:49 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:Check out the "leaders" at this "church" tho.

Who's bitches are these?


Satan's Bitches. Probably have a scooter club.

Blogger thordaddy October 28, 2017 9:52 PM  

Is there is safe space devoid of niggers and their moderate negro facilitators for racist whites to worship The Perfect Man?

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2017 9:54 PM  

@58-You wish to belong to a church that's neither deist nor in support of slavery, even if it's merely in the abstract. Okay, but I think that's evading the issue a bit. Because there's more wrong with the Enlightenment and Christianity than fostering unbelief, though that is a serious concern.

Christianity existed for approaching two thousand years before it suddenly realized slavery was wrong. This realization came with the Enlightenment, coincidentally or not, and its doctrines of universal human rights and its tendencies towards increasing egalitarianism. All of which could be interpreted as plants that grew from seeds deep within Christianity, I suppose. Smarter than I have credited or blamed it thusly. But it took an awful long time to shoot up.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 9:58 PM  

@86 Student In Blue, are you saying that God is not a binary thinker? That "there's a wideness in God's mercy" that extends at the same time to slaves and to the people who considered themselves to be their owners as well? [Caution: MIDI file alert.] I've heard the same thing, too. Way back in @30, I said as much.

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2017 9:58 PM  

@72-Paul didn't merely fail to condemn slavery as a sin. He enjoined slaves to obey their masters, didn't he? Without the proviso that they needn't bother when Christendom becomes more enlightened.

I still don't know what it is other posters say on the subject you find so objectionable. If re-legitimizing slavery consists in naught but recognizing it isn't sinful as such, what's the big deal? It's not like anyone seriously proposes enslaving you, or anything.

Blogger Rashadjin October 28, 2017 9:59 PM  

Re: @72 - IreneAthena

I asked for specifics, you continue with vague, unreferenced assertions. There's three games being played here.

The first is you planting the idea that people are pro-slavery on this blog. But you're the only person to bring it up in this thread; you're the only person to make an issue of it that I've seen. So someone reads your comments, assumes your so-called experience is legitimate, and comes away with the impression you want them to have even though it isn't one based on truth. A bit of poisoning the well. A little bit of cat calling in hopes that you can scrounge up these pro-slavery people from beneath the floorboards.

The second game being played is that the people here don't need to virtue signal a moral opposition to slavery. It's a baseline assumption, and so bringing it up is a waste of words. Only lefty progs and feckless sheep feel otherwise. And of course, the Nazi LARPers don't count in regards to anything.

The third game being played is...well...

Tee Hee.

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2017 10:09 PM  

@IreneAthena
Student In Blue, are you saying that God is not a binary thinker?

Please, go ahead and assert that God constantly falls into false dichotomies. Laughter is always appreciated.

Anyway, it's clear that you duck and dive any subject brought up with you, so I'm going to save my time and not bother with you anymore.

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2017 10:09 PM  

@56-I don't recall any condemnation of slavery as such in the Epistle to Philemon. What person of any significance interpreted it that way prior to the 18th century?

Blogger Lance E October 28, 2017 10:11 PM  

When can we start telling them that they are unwelcome, and that they aren't going to be safe?

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 10:14 PM  

@92 Tublecane. Are you saying that there is no time-- since Paul's epistle to Philemon until after the capital "E" Enlightenment-- that Christians suggest that giving slaves their liberty was a "more excellent way?" (to put it in Biblical language that speaks to a progression towards spiritual perfection.)

That's a remarkable assertion, and one that I'm not prepared to contradict at the moment, but I see that the burden of providing a conunter-example rests on me.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 28, 2017 10:17 PM  

Rashadjin wrote:I've completely missed the part where re-legitimizing slavery was a thing. Even the bitter ones aren't going that far, partly because the institution of slavery is idiotic at this stage of economic development.
Given the state of mechanization, it is literally not even worth feeding African slaves for the work they can do.  We now have mechanical blueberry pickers and lettuce harvesters.  Strawberry pickers are on the way.  Corn de-tasselers are probably one of the last jobs to fall to machines, and it won't be long.

So far the Democrats have found the only remaining use for Africans in a first-world society:  pay them for votes.

Blacks hate the company of their own so much they'll do anything to live among Whites... who cannot tolerate Black pathologies and move to be rid of them (for however long that lasts).  Very few Blacks will go back to Black countries on their own.  Maybe some will go, if paid.  But most will fight to avoid recolonization, and will wind up composted or rendered.

Nobody's going to own one.  Nobody will want to.  The people with that pathology are on the target list also.

tublecane wrote:He enjoined slaves to obey their masters, didn't he? Without the proviso that they needn't bother when Christendom becomes more enlightened.
Slavery as punishment for a crime is still legit in the USA.  Telling a slave never to have children is legit per Paul.  We should genetically remove our criminal population.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 10:18 PM  

I reject the idea that "being a person of any significance" be a criterion, though. I Corinthians 1:27.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 10:21 PM  

@96 Riiiiight. Til next time, Student in Blue.

Blogger DonReynolds October 28, 2017 10:29 PM  

As Governor of Texas, George Bush Jr. showed everyone how it is done, when he removed a small plaque from the Texas Supreme Court building in Austin.

The Texas Supreme Court Building was built by the Daughters of the Confederacy and gifted to the people of Texas. The only sign or marker of the gift was a small brass plaque on the inside wall of the building.

ONE Negro militant activist complained. Just ONE....and so Bush ordered the plaque removed.

The more appropriate action would be to return the building to the Daughters of the Confederacy and the State of Texas use their own bongo bucks to build a new one. No, they are going to keep the building. Just remove the plaque.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 10:37 PM  

Tublecane wrote: "He enjoined slaves to obey their masters, didn't he? Without the proviso that they needn't bother when Christendom becomes more enlightened." Of course he wouldn't have included that proviso in the same passage! Scripture records Paul's admission that some of his opinions were his own, and not the Lord's. Paul's relationship with Onesimus may have been the impetus for his changing views on slave-holding, reflected in the epistle to Philemon.

Oh, God save us. Here's Mr. Rational weighing in on spiritual matters. He'd be having dark meat for lunch instead of sending it back to Africa, but he's afraid of the prions.

Anonymous krymneth October 28, 2017 10:44 PM  

You need to carefully define what you mean by "slavery", IreneAthena and the others taking part in the debate. The American South's definition prior to the Civil War and the definition of Paul's time are quite different, as are the economic circumstances surrounding either. It is not difficult for me to say that the slavery of Paul's time was an unfortunate economic reality brought on by the fact that basically every person of the time is literally incomprehensibly poor by modern standards. And I use the word "literally" in its original sense, there simply isn't a person reading this that can feel the depth of poverty of Paul's time relative to our current wealth. Roman slavery is closer to but not the same as the modern concept of employment. It is not the modern concept of employment. But if you translated the modern concept back into Roman-era Latin or Greek I wouldn't be surprised it would get the same word as Paul would use, or at the very least that a (reverse) concordance would use the concept in describing it to people of that era. There may have been evil committed under the rubric of Roman-era slavery, but then again, one need not search very far for evil committed under the rubric of 21st century "employment", either.

And I have no issues saying that the slavery of the American South was deeply evil, as evidenced by the negative effects that still reverberate to this day. And I do not mean the same trite effects that leftists necessarily complain about, but things like how the Good Book has been implicitly besmirched because the Greek concept that Paul was referring to in the Bible is best translated into an English word that now has been tainted by connotations that do not fit the Greek concept, or the division that you can see above.

Comprehension check: If you come away from the previous two paragraphs thinking I endorse either kind of slavery, you have not properly understood what I said. I'm still rather grateful to be an "employee" and not a Roman "slave". But they are not the same thing and one should not equivocate and slip & slide between the two definitions as convenient, and one should certainly not make the mistake of thinking they are both the same thing.

Anonymous Grayman October 28, 2017 10:52 PM  

@104 Irene

Oh, God save us. Here's Mr. Rational weighing in on spiritual matters. He'd be having dark meat for lunch instead of sending it back to Africa, but he's afraid of the prion

Why do you insist on cultural appropriation of African traditions?! That's RACIST.

Mr Rational has a good point overall. Any people with an average IQ below 90 is going to be a permanent underclass in a first world nation, as most tasks they are capable of have been or can easily be automated.

And Irene, you dont eat them that is sick (unless you're an African then its your culture)! Any that aren't removed from America get sterilized.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2017 11:03 PM  

> Not surprised by this decision at all. It's nigh impossible to find a decent church in NOVA

Church of Our Savior, Oatlands. Reformed Episcopal Church. 1928 Prayer Book.

Anonymous Unamused Flyover Resident October 28, 2017 11:03 PM  

Once more vindicating the Anglican Church in America's decision to separate from the Episcopals in the early 70s.

We could see then where this was going.

So, if anyone is interested in worshipping with a liturgy that C.S.Lewis would recognize - straight out of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer ...

However,, I'm sure you'll be disappointed to know that we do not ordain women.

Blogger Rashadjin October 28, 2017 11:06 PM  

RE: @100 Mr. Rational

At some point, I'm going to seriously need to make the case that genetics (re: IQ) only provides a framework for someone's mental development. Culture and Environment build off that framework and largely determine how well someone can acclimate to Western Societies.

A baby's mental development starts in the womb and reacts to signals that the mother's body sends it. Higher stress on the mother leads to emphasizing the parts of the brain that work better in high scarcity environments, for example. Also, Western Culture provides a hefty framework for complex ideas that some other cultures lack. Learning them early is important.

Basically, America is raising its black population to be feral. The non-feral blacks that escape that fate are productive members of society and worthy of their place, at least until black identity politics consumes them. A life of resentment and anger does rot the brain.

If we were raising white kids the same way we were raising black kids, most of them would turn out feral and worthless too.

Oh yeah, we kinda are. They're called SJWs.

Anonymous franklinjennings October 28, 2017 11:09 PM  

@Cataline Sergius

I'm pretty sure I remember a small brass placard marking Robert E Lee's pew being there a decade ago.

Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 11:19 PM  

Yeah, but what do YOU know, Grayman? Leviticus 26:27-30 “If you still refuse to listen to me, and if you still turn against me, then I will really show my anger! I—yes, I myself—will punish you seven times for your sins. You will become so hungry that you will eat the bodies of your sons and daughters..."

Hunger drives people -- of all eras, races, and prior levels of delicacy-- to cannibalism. It's nothing to do with cultural appropriation, although I know you were just trying to be funny, Grayman.

When I think of what the real Mr. Rational must be like, what comes to mind is the scene where an urbane Anthony Hopkins gives a young fellow passenger an alternative to airplane food...but I don't really believe Mr. R would indulge just for the sport of it, even if kuru were not a concern.

Blogger Junius Stone October 28, 2017 11:28 PM  

That's bullshit from people with NO respect for history or our founding.

OpenID cyrus83 October 28, 2017 11:43 PM  

Christ himself would be as unwelcome at this place as either Washington or Lee. Churches like these are really post-Christian, it's just that the reality has yet to be widely acknowledged. Eventually the Christians will have to man up and proclaim that these converged churches and their leaders are not Christian.

Anonymous bbgkb October 28, 2017 11:44 PM  

Mr. Day, you've said all we need are twelve. We have more than twelve, but what should we do?

Buy guns for everyone, along with long term storage food

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 28, 2017 11:47 PM  

OT, but one wonders when they will remove that Hollywood sign for similar reasons.

I'll bet Rocket Man could remove that sign. Now that would be really, really sad....

Anonymous Unamused Flyover Resident October 28, 2017 11:47 PM  

Oh, and FTR, the Anglican Church in America (ACA) is separate and distinct from the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA) and altogether less cucked.

Neither are we members of the worldwide Anglican communion. We recognize Orthodox and Roman Catholic baptism and confirmation/communion. FYI and all that.


Blogger IreneAthena October 28, 2017 11:49 PM  

I attend church built in the mid 60's, way up North, and even so, there is a stained glass window featuring a multititude of prominent American Christians, Robert E. Lee included, as one surprised member recently discovered and pointed out.

Should there be a movement afoot to "edit" Lee from said stained glass window, I will be able to raise an objection, and ask for due consideration of the original intentions for including Lee in the work (there's a wideness in God's mercy, see above) and point to the slings and arrows I've endured in this VERY THREAD to prove I'm not a racist... Interesting discussion, as always. See you in church. Or not.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 October 28, 2017 11:53 PM  

Perhaps we could replace the plaque honoring Washington with one that honors a famous, effective black leader like Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe, or any of the fine African candidates currently on death row. That would be more diverse, inclusive, etc. Can we just please give Soros his way and start the damn race war already? Honestly the only choice at this point is to submit to having your family being tortured, raped, and killed while being taxed for same OR rounding up the little angels of inclusion and sending them to Aushvitz II. Choose whitey, what'll it be?

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 28, 2017 11:56 PM  

Cloudbuster wrote:
Maybe they should remove all crosses and Bibles, because they, too, might offend someone. And what's with "Christ" in the name? That's patriarchal and exclusive of people who are spiritual yet who do not worship Christ.

Only a matter of time. The recent decision by a gang of blackrobes to order the destruction of a monument to WW I dead shaped as a cross, taken to its logical end, will result in the removal of all crosses found on government property, even tombstones of the war dead in national cemeteries. The cloud people like the SJWs in the Episcopal "church" keep on pushing it, and they and (((their backers))) own the entire court system. As usual, there's no resistance at all.

Anonymous Grayman October 29, 2017 12:01 AM  

109. Rashadjin

Bullshit!!!!

Several states do extensive standardized testing that include measure socioeconomic levels. As can be seen in many other tests the lowest socioeconomic whites generally perform at about the same as the highest level socioeconomic blacks.
Stop parroting bullshit and do your homework. Hell even the classic example of "head start" was nothing but a money pit, expensive daycare, producing no real results.
The blacks you claim are escaping are doing no such thing. Those blacks represent 2 to 3 standard deviations above their black peers

Anonymous Grayman October 29, 2017 12:07 AM  

@111 IreneAthena

Nice try, but cannibalism is regularly practiced throughout Africa for a variety of reasons beside hunger.

No where have I claimed to be holy or without sin, I am sure I shall have plenty to answer for one day but that is between me and the one doing the judging.

And yes it is cultural appropriation, the west doesn't eat albino's to gain power, the west doesn't sacrifice young children in satanic/magical rites. Africa readily does all of the above.

Anonymous AB.Prosper October 29, 2017 12:12 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote

Given the state of mechanization, it is literally not even worth feeding African slaves for the work they can do. We now have mechanical blueberry pickers and lettuce harvesters. Strawberry pickers are on the way. Corn de-tasselers are probably one of the last jobs to fall to machines, and it won't be long.

This is a bigger problem than just a low IQ Black and others issue. Automation is putting anyone at an IQ below 120 and without a compliant disposition at risk of life time poverty.

This will end up imploding the economy or worse since that's around 85% of the work force! Dystopia here we come.

In the end we are either going to end up with most of the economy being Government (its officially around 40% now but that doesn't include companies that might as well be government) or a collapse with a lot of Khmer Rouge style justice applied to techies . I'm not a fan of the later, I like antibiotics and the like but these "smart" people are putting all humanity at risk of mass enslavement or extermination.

It was only one Russian, Vasili Arkhipov, who basically stopped World War 3 back in 1962. That doom vector is a lot lower now but the risks to all of us grow by the year

Frankly the trend toward dysgenics might end up being the very thing that saves the human race, lower IQ's people do stupid stuff but nature takes care of the problems they cause.

All that aside, the cultural issues between Black and White are not going to easily be resolved, I'm not convinced they can be and its going to be a humanitarian tragedy when it goes to guns

Blogger Rashadjin October 29, 2017 12:24 AM  

RE: @120 Grayman

Fine, I'll throw myself into this fire.

That general analysis is low resolution and nearsighted.

Last I heard, Head Start was a failure across the board, for everyone, not just blacks. Socioeconomic status doesn't reflect greater cultural and homelife conditions; it doesn't even suggest things like an inadequate calorie intake on the part of the low-end whites.

You're drawing the wrong conclusions from the wrong variables.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 12:25 AM  

"Telling a slave never to have children is legit per Paul."

Could you elaborate on that.

Blogger IreneAthena October 29, 2017 12:30 AM  

@121 Oh what the heck, Grayman, it's Halloween-tide. Why NOT stay up past midnight discussing the grisly subject of cannibalism? Hunger is not a *necessary* condition for cannibalism, but it is a *sufficient* one: No cultural appropriation needed. Didn't you see I already acknowledged your attempt at humor? But the more you keep bringing up the subject of cultural appropriation, the un-funnier it gets. You're beginning to sound like an SJW.

Blogger Sherwood family October 29, 2017 12:32 AM  

I went to the baptism of a friend’s daughter at that church about three years ago. At that time, at least, the priest conducting the service was a man. This assault on the past has gone from annoying to insane. How many other markers of the past will we allow to be destroyed because someone felt “uncomfortable?”

Anonymous Snidely Whiplash October 29, 2017 12:33 AM  

@Rashadjin,
You're pulling the results you like despite the fact that your results contradict the actual results.
Always an excuse for failure, and never any successes.

Blogger cavalier973 October 29, 2017 12:34 AM  

These folk are going to be so surprised when they find themselves in hell, and lift up their eyes to see Geo. Washington and R.E. Lee enjoying the privileges of heaven.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 29, 2017 12:37 AM  

It's about cat ladies seeking attention, they should have just flashed their breasts

Blogger IreneAthena October 29, 2017 12:40 AM  

@124 "Sister, just say no! when Master comes knockin' at the cabin door."

Blogger Rashadjin October 29, 2017 12:44 AM  

Fix: @123

Socioeconomic status doesn't reflect greater cultural and homelife conditions; it doesn't even suggest things like an inadequate calorie intake on the part of the low-end whites.

I misspoke there. I meant to say you can't infer the greater cultural and homelife conditions from socioeconomic status.

So -

Greater Cultural and Homelife conditions do greatly effect Socioeconomic Status outcomes.

But Socioeconomic Status can not be used to determine the what a person's greater cultural and homelife conditions were.

At least in America, particularly when looking at the black/white divide.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 29, 2017 12:48 AM  

Twin studies make it clear that genetics is a much more significant variable than environment in determining an individual's intelligence. There's greater correlation between the IQ's of identical twins raised in different environments that for fraternal twins raised in the same home.

Anonymous grayman October 29, 2017 1:05 AM  

@ Irene & rash

The hour I'd late, literally and figuratively in tge socionomics tide that is turning.
None of use are going to convince the other, at least with words.
Whether we realize it or not most of us have already chosen a team and now we wait to see what sort of blood soaked hell awaits each of us.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 29, 2017 1:07 AM  

Bobby Farr wrote:These are real Americans. They may be self-loathing cucks but their American ethnicity (at least among the leadership) seems unquestionable.

Maybe genetically, but the transnational managerial class has become a real tribe, with its own culture and aesthetics and everything. And since part of their culture is utopianism, they mock us at every turn by guising their self-regard behind a pretense of universalist charity (for everyone but us, and with other people's money than their own).

Anonymous Unamused Flyover Resident October 29, 2017 1:13 AM  

Shorter Rashadjin: Even wealthy blacks make lousy parents.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 29, 2017 1:15 AM  

Haxo Angmaerk wrote:No, it is not a war on 'Murka.

that's long gone.

it's a Judeo-globalist war on Whites.


Hypothesis: we sowed the seeds of our own destruction with romantic neo-paganism at the Founding. How is Columbia even a thing? That is not the name of any human person.

We must get down on our knees, repent, and beg God for forgiveness for this grave sin. If there is any graven idol to Columbia, then that must be torn down. And Portlandia too, which was modeled after her.

Blogger IreneAthena October 29, 2017 1:18 AM  

@133 I am afraid you may be right, Grayman, about the bloodshed that America might see very soon, but I am still holding out hope, that the Holy Spirit might throw together a fellowship of Black Christians who have legitimate beefs against a certain class of bullying cops who have abused them and a group of White Christians who have had it up to here -><- with affirmative action taken to safety-threatening extremes. The practical solutions that result from the dialogue might be a real light to the rest of the nation, to the world, about the extent of the rifts that the Prince of Peace is capable of healing.

Blogger Rashadjin October 29, 2017 1:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 29, 2017 1:28 AM  

Ironically, we could probably get Sharia revolutionaries on board with tearing down graven idols, since they were the original iconoclasts. Evil as they are, I think it would be funny to partner with them on this measure to purify Western Civ.

Anonymous Snidely Whiplash October 29, 2017 1:29 AM  

Shorter reality, even Blacks raised by Middle-class White Christian parents turn out low-IQ violent thugs.

Anonymous Auntie Analogue October 29, 2017 1:31 AM  

These Episcopalian Memory-Holers are just one among the many divisions of today's Western Taliban. It's all the more appalling, lamentable and dangerous that most of the Western Taliban's divisions are comprised of Lennonist "Imagine" volunteers - unpaid stooges of the Globali$t Uniparty Open Border$ One-Percenter $ellout E$tabli$hment. Today's Western Taliban are in no way different from the credulous who raised their right arms in the Hitlergruß, from the Red Guards who brandished their copies of 'The Little Red Book,' from revolutionary France's Jacobins. So it is, so has it always been, with fanatics who believe and insist that their forcibly imposed prescriptions and proscriptions can and will change human nature and thus bring about utopia. These Western Taliban useful idiots are the fanatics who, in grim bloody cycle after grim bloody cycle, repeat the worst of history's crimes against humanity because, either from their ignorance they've failed to learn from history, or from their hubris they've determined not to learn from it.

Blogger Rashadjin October 29, 2017 1:33 AM  

RE: @127 Snidely Whiplash (And repost of #138 because I missed some HTML)

That's funny, I don't remember pulling any particular results to cherry pick from.

The point is that people are focusing on IQ way, way too much in regards to the black community in America. Under a unified, imperialist culture, white Americans would serve as the high IQ members that the black community lacks in the same sort of way that white America borrows high IQ Asians. The high IQ clusters pull up the low IQ cluster so society at large can function.

The problem is that culture and politics have severed a large portion of the black community from the unified community so they no longer have that benefit. The other problem is that places like Chicago and cultural quirks like extreme single-parenthood and glorification of crime turn the black kids in those situations feral. Not dumb, feral. But also dumber than they might otherwise be.

Dumb is another problem spectrum in an advanced, first world economy. AB.Prosper broaches it well.

If we want to talk about the influence of lower IQ on a problem population, we also need to address the other factors that correlate highly with success in our society. We are not, so the analysis is going to be warped at best.

And remember, the study of IQ is new, therefore shiny, therefore overemphasized to one degree or another because humans. That, and we don't have hundreds of years of data to correlate against the rise and fall of multiple societies.

A good counterpoint is how well the high IQ Jews are responding to global affairs these days. Smart doesn't seem to offset resentful and paranoid as much as one would hope.

And my killshot to all this is: Has anyone else noticed the gaping hole where the Black American community's root identity is suppose to be? Am I the only one who understands why they keep latching onto the Civil Rights movement and otherwise rummage around in the dustbin of history for anything they can try to claim (like Egypt)? Is it just me who knows what a lack of a father can do to a person and what that might look like when it's a community pandemic?

Blogger Akulkis October 29, 2017 1:48 AM  

@109

"At some point, I'm going to seriously need to make the case that genetics (re: IQ) only provides a framework for someone's mental development. Culture and Environment build off that framework and largely determine how well someone can acclimate to Western Societies.

A baby's mental development starts in the womb and reacts to signals that the mother's body sends it. Higher stress on the mother leads to emphasizing the parts of the brain that work better in high scarcity environments, for example. Also, Western Culture provides a hefty framework for complex ideas that some other cultures lack. Learning them early is important."

Close, but no cigar.

Genetics is the FOUNDATION of IQ.
Culture is the immediate landscape.
Nutrition (or malnutrition) and education (or miseducation) and experience are the construction materials.

If you're going to use an analogy, equating both IQ AND environmental effects to BOTH be framework is inane, and a mark of midwit-ism.

Blogger Rashadjin October 29, 2017 1:51 AM  

RE: @140 Snidely Whiplash

Shorter reality, even Blacks raised by Middle-class White Christian parents turn out low-IQ violent thugs.

Wow, really? I thought better of you than to try and pull adoption statistics. Everyone knows those outcomes are comparatively poor.

Anonymous AB.Prosper October 29, 2017 1:54 AM  

SciVo de Plorable wrote:Hypothesis: we sowed the seeds of our own destruction with romantic neo-paganism at the Founding. How is Columbia even a thing? That is not the name of any human person.

We must get down on our knees, repent, and beg God for forgiveness for this grave sin. If there is any graven idol to Columbia, then that must be torn down. And Portlandia too, which was modeled after her.


Nah. The US was bound to come to an end since it was at its roots a long con, the worlds largest longest running grift.

we founded a nation on not wanting to pay the actual costs for civilization , taxes and other costs. This worked OK till we ran out of room, throw in automation and diversity and you create the natural conditions for collapse

All empires eventually end and ours was certain to join the USSR and the others sooner or later

The moral is to not take in the religious crazies and people no one else wants and than stack in millions of incompatible persons all the while doing anything to avoid paying the real cost for order and stability

Its not a surprise to me the US peaked after WW2 , we didn't have a choice but to cooperate or be Soviet or dead , were heavily socialized by technology and the State and rich enough to meet our bills easy

That's over, technology ended it so game over for us.

The trick is to get strong and to make sure your faction can take all it can if collapse comes sooner than later. You can have a Christian Country if you can keep it

As for Christendom, it was going to go out with the printing press. The spread of knowledge and wealth makes societies more secular . The 30 years war basically spelled the end, too many dead and no one truly won.

In time some new religion will probably occur but for a while people will be spiritual . So long as the religious impulses can be channeled away from any Utopian ideals or Green Zealotry the West will be fine

As for population, I know a lot of people worry about the decline . They shouldn't. The only reason we have problems is immigration and an economic system predicated on constant growth . This is nuts

In all truth here are way too many people. Think of carrying capacity having two parts, societal and physical. The first is how much the culture can find work for so that people can afford families and of course what traits pro and anti natal it has. We can fix the anti natal trait but we can't provide meaningful work or income so we are over that carrying capacity

As for physical , we are so over that and are stressing so many resources, well to use and example, the UK imports half its food. One bump, one way. 35 million people could starve to death even at full production

Our farming practices are not sustainable and a lower TFR is good

In the longer term, humanity is do for a culling. No way can Germany support a population of over 80 million indefinitely no matter what the global capitalists and power hungry polls think. I won't even bring up Africa both of whose carrying capacities are way exceeded

Blogger Rashadjin October 29, 2017 2:16 AM  

RE: @143 Akulkis

Honestly, I expected to be accused of midwit-ism earlier than this.

Luckily for me, your reading comprehension sucks.

I explicitly linked genetics to IQ. There was never a point I did not. What I said was Culture and Environment build off genetics (that is, IQ) but also largely determine how well a person can acclimate to Western Societies. Not succeed, not work IQ intensive jobs, but acclimate. As in, probably not shooting up the neighborhood.

I then said Western Culture provides a framework for complex ideas, not mental development. As in, we're standing on the shoulders of geniuses and are bequeathed their insights. Even if we're not smart enough to understand all the steps they took to get there, merely being taught the outcomes gives people conceptual tools to better grapple with complex ideas.

Two separate frameworks for two separate concepts.

Thanks for that. I was bracing for worse.

Blogger Technomad October 29, 2017 2:25 AM  

The more they howl about slavery, which ended 94 years before I was born, the more I bitterly regret that we ever got a conscience on that subject.

Blogger vorlos October 29, 2017 2:26 AM  

Here is my answer sent today: Greetings she-demons, on behalf of the Generals Washington and Lee, thank you for removing them from your putrid presence. No longer will they have to suffer your stench and sulfurous odors. When you rip off your'human faces'please upload to YouTube so we can see your real ghoul visages. Happy Halloween to all the creatures at the temple of satan.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 29, 2017 2:26 AM  

AB.Prosper wrote:Nah. The US was bound to come to an end since it was at its roots a long con, the worlds largest longest running grift.

we founded a nation on not wanting to pay the actual costs for civilization , taxes and other costs. This worked OK till we ran out of room, throw in automation and diversity and you create the natural conditions for collapse


That is absurd. We founded our nation on wanting to be able to decide for ourselves, and also not be exploited. Then Lincoln used slavery abolitionism to turn our democratic federal republic into a pseudo-democratic totalitarian empire (with the Reconstruction amendments), and we still have plenty of room. You're talking nonsense.

All empires eventually end and ours was certain to join the USSR and the others sooner or later

That O.G. Kush must be good.

The moral is to not take in the religious crazies and people no one else wants and than stack in millions of incompatible persons all the while doing anything to avoid paying the real cost for order and stability

Its not a surprise to me the US peaked after WW2 , we didn't have a choice but to cooperate or be Soviet or dead , were heavily socialized by technology and the State and rich enough to meet our bills easy

That's over, technology ended it so game over for us.

The trick is to get strong and to make sure your faction can take all it can if collapse comes sooner than later. You can have a Christian Country if you can keep it


Fat and happy is no way to go through life.

As for Christendom, it was going to go out with the printing press. The spread of knowledge and wealth makes societies more secular . The 30 years war basically spelled the end, too many dead and no one truly won.

In time some new religion will probably occur but for a while people will be spiritual . So long as the religious impulses can be channeled away from any Utopian ideals or Green Zealotry the West will be fine

As for population, I know a lot of people worry about the decline . They shouldn't. The only reason we have problems is immigration and an economic system predicated on constant growth . This is nuts

In all truth here are way too many people. Think of carrying capacity having two parts, societal and physical. The first is how much the culture can find work for so that people can afford families and of course what traits pro and anti natal it has. We can fix the anti natal trait but we can't provide meaningful work or income so we are over that carrying capacity

As for physical , we are so over that and are stressing so many resources, well to use and example, the UK imports half its food. One bump, one way. 35 million people could starve to death even at full production

Our farming practices are not sustainable and a lower TFR is good

In the longer term, humanity is do for a culling. No way can Germany support a population of over 80 million indefinitely no matter what the global capitalists and power hungry polls think. I won't even bring up Africa both of whose carrying capacities are way exceeded


I don't know about the U.K. but AFAIK we all just need to fear the dark continent, that produces way more people than it can feed. So their lives are cheap, and our lives are cheap to them. And I think we need to be cruel to be kind by withholding food, because our spiraling debts mean that our charity will inevitably crash, and then they will have mass starvation with nothing that we can do about it.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 29, 2017 2:29 AM  

Oh God, the secular BULLSHIT in this comment makes me want to build a Christian Country on your godless corpse and start a jihad on you wretches till you're all ground beef, because YOU lot are the problem here. Not the muzzies. YOU! The ‘enlightened’ jerk bags letting them in! Contrary to whatever the retarded nonsense you believe is, the reason for the West's decline are jerks like you who, because they don't give a care and their worldview doesn't give them the slightest reason to give a care, are letting in a replacement population they think, in their infinite, godless, megalomaniacal, wisdom, they can consolidate control over as a stepping stone to control all biological activity on the planet and give the biggest middle finger to God they can. To this end, they've made no small effort to converge any branch of Christianity within the nations they have control over to essentially just parrot their stuff and prepare the way for the royal buttfucking that's presently occurring. Secularism is what got us INTO this mess to begin with! For all your hatred of the Catholic Church of old, if it had the resources at its disposal all your so called 'enlightened' and 'wealthy' countries had, it would have destroyed the invaders by now and likely have made the Middle-East completely Christian again just to be on the safe side! And the Chinese too! And the Hindus! And the Hebes!

Don't worry, though. Christianity has survived quite a bit so far in its history, and believe me, while many new religious viewpoints may sprout up... YOURS is gonna be due for the culling it so justly deserves, fool, and soon enough, the atheists and agnostic will be little more than historical curiosities of a bygone, and more savage era. Like the mastadon. Or the do-do bird. Or, hehehe… the Soviet Union.

Blogger Unknown October 29, 2017 2:35 AM  

The least important thing in a church are memorials to dead patrons. The most important thing is to preach the Word of God. Both can co-exist, but hold onto the former lightly.

Blogger IreneAthena October 29, 2017 2:36 AM  

Who needs meaningful work? The goal of permaculture (a field where discoveries and methodologies are still being made/developed) is long afternoons spent in a hammock, watching the perennial vegetables yield with minimal intervention from you. It is a lifestyle something like what the Africans enjoyed, back when fruit hung from tree limbs bending low, and there was time to enjoy the good life, and the making of art, like polyphonic music. I am surprised at the gloomy lack of imagination on display here, from a group of people that includes men of letters.

Anonymous JAG October 29, 2017 3:14 AM  

IreneAthena wrote:Who needs meaningful work? The goal of permaculture (a field where discoveries and methodologies are still being made/developed) is long afternoons spent in a hammock, watching the perennial vegetables yield with minimal intervention from you. It is a lifestyle something like what the Africans enjoyed, back when fruit hung from tree limbs bending low, and there was time to enjoy the good life, and the making of art, like polyphonic music. I am surprised at the gloomy lack of imagination on display here, from a group of people that includes men of letters.

Concern troll is concerned.

Blogger Gordon October 29, 2017 3:18 AM  

IreneAthena, we are descended from men who toiled long and sacrificed indolence. Men and women who worked hard and saved, rather than spent. One had to do this. Nature is vicious and cruel and punishes those who forget her ways.

It might take a while to wrap such minds around laying in a hammock while reaching out for fruit. It's not something one could do in northern Europe.

Anonymous Luke October 29, 2017 3:20 AM  

I posted this on another forum:

"Any church that has female clergy is apostate, and no longer Christian. (Ones with openly active homosexuals at any level not being shamed out of membership, even more so.)

From Lt. Col. William Lind's excellent novel "Victoria" about the regeneracy of America:

https://www.traditionalright.com/victoria/

"The triumph of the Recovery was marked most clearly by the burning of the Episcopal bishop of Maine.

She was not a particularly bad bishop. She was in fact typical of Episcopal bishops of the first quarter of the 21st century: agnostic, compulsively political and radical, and given to placing a small idol of Isis on the altar when she said the Communion service. By 2055, when she was tried for heresy, convicted, and burned, she had outlived her era. By that time only a handful of Episcopalians still recognized female clergy, it would have been easy enough to let the old fool rant out her final years in obscurity.

The fact that the easy road was not taken, that Episcopalians turned to their difficult duty of trying and convicting, and the state upheld its unpleasant responsibility of setting torch to faggots, was what marked this as an act of Recovery. I well remember the crowd that gathered for the execution, solemn but not sad, relieved rather that at last, after so many years of humiliation, of having to swallow every absurdity and pretend we liked it, the majority had taken back the culture. No more apologies for the truth. No more “Yes, buts” on upholding standards. Civilization had recovered its nerve. The flames that soared above the lawn before the Maine State House were, as the bishopess herself might have said, liberating.

She could have saved herself, of course, right up until the torch was applied. All she had to do was announce she wasn’t a bishop, or a priest, since Christian tradition forbids a woman to be either. Or she could have confessed she wasn’t a Christian, in which case she could be bishopess, priestess, popess, whatever, in the service of her chosen demons. That would have just gotten her tossed over the border.

But the Prince of This World whom she served gives his devotees neither an easy nor a dignified exit. She bawled, she babbled, she shrieked in Hellish tongues, she pissed and pooped herself. The pyre was lit at 12:01 PM on a cool, cloudless August 18th, St. Helen’s day. The flames climbed fast; after all, they’d been waiting for her for a long time.

When it was over, none of us felt good about it. But we’d long since learned feelings were a poor guide. We’d done the right thing."

https://www.traditionalright.com/victoria-preface/

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 29, 2017 3:22 AM  

@151 You might want to consider why that didn't work out too well for the Native Americans.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 3:46 AM  

"But they are not the same thing and one should not equivocate and slip & slide between the two definitions as convenient, and one should certainly not make the mistake of thinking they are both the same thing."

But ALOT of pastors equate the two in their teachings. Even some pretty well known ones. Basically they almost all equate being a slave with being an employee.

Blogger Jan Minář October 29, 2017 4:09 AM  

Slavery has never been abolished in the US. For example, what was the legal and practical status of the servants at the Governor Clinton's mansion?

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot October 29, 2017 4:14 AM  

I have no idea what this church looks like now, but I'll give you a glimpse at what could be ...

There's a synagogue in Everton (yes, that Everton) that had been decaying for years. (Look up Greenbank synagogue in Everton through your search method of choice -- Vox's stuff doesn't typically enjoy chewing on my links.) Eventually the council gave up on it and allowed it to be turned into luxury apartments this year. "Stop the Rot" didn't manage to stop the rot after all.

They may have better luck with the Welsh Cathedral in Liverpool, but the verdict's still out on that one.

Blogger Jan Minář October 29, 2017 4:19 AM  

Slavery costs a fortune to enforce, yet strangely is still profitable. That's why persons duly convicted of a crime are still being enslaved in the US. It's its own industry.

Why do you people feel the need to deny the existence of slavery, when it is staring you right in the face -- is it the bad education?

Blogger The Observer October 29, 2017 4:27 AM  

IreneAthena wrote:Who needs meaningful work? The goal of permaculture (a field where discoveries and methodologies are still being made/developed) is long afternoons spent in a hammock, watching the perennial vegetables yield with minimal intervention from you. It is a lifestyle something like what the Africans enjoyed, back when fruit hung from tree limbs bending low, and there was time to enjoy the good life, and the making of art, like polyphonic music. I am surprised at the gloomy lack of imagination on display here, from a group of people that includes men of letters.

And the Africans never invented the wheel, let alone the written word.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 4:33 AM  

"Slavery costs a fortune to enforce, yet strangely is still profitable. That's why persons duly convicted of a crime are still being enslaved in the US. It's its own industry."

This is true, incarceration in the US is a prime example of modern day slavery. Especially since there is a two-tier justUS system, one for the rich and one for everybody else and if you cannot afford a good lier er, um... I mean lawyer then you know what happens next.

Blogger Jan Minář October 29, 2017 4:39 AM  

Slaves are property, and have no legal standing. Employees are different.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 4:40 AM  

"Why do you people feel the need to deny the existence of slavery..."

Its still around, it even says so in Revelation... Revelation 18:13
Some translations use souls of men and slaves as synonyms. Scary stuff.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 4:42 AM  

@159-Bad education, yes, and just not thinking too hard on the subject. Everyone knows involuntary servitude is part of our culture. As punishment for crimes, which is mentioned in the Constitutional. For other things which are supposedly are duty as citizens, like taking up arms in draft-time and serving on juries.

Slavery is bad, by definition, in the Current Year mindset. Forcing people to work as a consequence of wrongdoing is fine, because we imagine they deserve it. If it's fine, it can't be bad, and therefore isn't a form of slavery. That's the thinking.

Of course, that's using the term "slavery" broadly. To most people, it means lifelong, multi-generational chattel status, which is officially outlawed in this country.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 4:48 AM  

"Slavery is bad, by definition, in the Current Year mindset. Forcing people to work as a consequence of wrongdoing is fine, because we imagine they deserve it. If it's fine, it can't be bad, and therefore isn't a form of slavery. That's the thinking."

Except for the fact ALOT of people are incarcerated and then legally forced into slavery for putting an "illegal" substance into their bodies which leds to the question do people have control of their own bodies or not? And if that cannot put certain substances into their bodies then no they are not free and are technically slaves already so the incarceration/slavery racket is just an extension of slavery or just a more severe form of it.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 4:50 AM  

@162-That's what most people think of when they hear the term: chattel slavery. But there are different kinds:

Debt labor, or bondage based on owing money. I'm not talking simply about being in debt and having to work to get out of it. Maybe never getting out of it. Because that is dischargable. We don't have debtor's prison anymore. I mean when you're coerced into doing work you wouldn't otherwise do because you're in debt.

Sexual slavery. 'Nuff said.

Any kind of human trafficking, where you're bought and sold for whatever purpose, including sex.

All other forms of coerced labor. Corvee or what-have-you.

All these we may call "slavery."

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 4:50 AM  

And that doesn't even get into the governments role in promoting and importing drugs into the US via the CIA. So yes government is slavery.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 4:54 AM  

@165-You lost me on putting substances into your body and ownership. You're working with premises I can't identify.

But to answer the larger question, no, you're not free. Not that free, anyway. Despite the rhetoric, our society doesn't prioritize it. Among other reasons, because they don't think people could handle the responsible. And they're right.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 4:57 AM  

"You lost me on putting substances into your body and ownership."

Really? It means you don't have self ownership if you can't consume anything you want to. And if you don't have self ownership and you are an adult you are not free and therefore a slave to those who can dictate what you can do with your body.

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 29, 2017 5:01 AM  

When you consider the bell curve, you understand why fake freedom under lightly-perceived but iron chains is the ideology of the unintelligent, and libertarianism is an obscure intellectual curiosity.

It's true that a few people of exceptional intellect and character could live as libertarians, but as a system for controlling the entire spectrum of ability and inclination it is woefully inadequate.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 5:02 AM  

"But to answer the larger question, no, you're not free."

So basically there is no such thing as the "Land of the Free"? You are a slave with relative levels of "freeDUMBS" exactly like older systems of slavery that also had various tiers of slavery.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 5:08 AM  

@171-There's a difference between not being free, or as free as possible, and being a slave.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 5:08 AM  

tublecane there are many good articles at Mises about self ownership and its connection with drug phohibitions.

https://mises.org/library/self-ownership

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 5:13 AM  

"There's a difference between not being free, or as free as possible, and being a slave."

Maybe you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate your thoughts on those differences?

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 5:14 AM  

@169-I don't share your premise about everyone being a slave who doesn't have full bodily autonomy for ad libitum substance consumption. Even though I think most laws on the subject to be ill-advised, especially on the national level.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 5:18 AM  

@174-There's this thing called government, and it assumes powers it doesn't allow to others, if it has its way. Including powers of compulsion.

Those subject to its coercive powers you may call slaves, especially if you consider their powers illegitimate. But in a lot of cases you'll find those people disagree, and refer to themselves with strange terms like "citizen."

Blogger The Kurgan October 29, 2017 5:21 AM  

Correction: Never attend a church where women are in any way recognised as being part of the priesthood.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 5:25 AM  

tublecane here is some articles you might want to check out.

https://herb.co/2016/06/28/prohibition-violation-human-rights/
https://mises.org/blog/prohibition-and-socialist-ideal

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 5:28 AM  

"Those subject to its coercive powers you may call slaves, especially if you consider their powers illegitimate. But in a lot of cases you'll find those people disagree, and refer to themselves with strange terms like "citizen."

Then "citizen" is a misnomer?

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 5:28 AM  

@170-I don't see any way to run complex civilization involving people who would destroy themselves given the liberty--which is every civilization--without a great deal of compulsion. But it's the dishonesty that gets to me. It may be necessary, but it cannot be healthy to have as much deception at the heart of our polity.

Take equality. (Please.) To achieve the results people think they want, or are conditioned to believe they want--or what is going to happen anyway because they ruling class demands it so they better get used to--in that field requires monstrous amounts of centralized power. But people don't want that much power to be exercised, because they want to be free. They want equality--via affirmative action or whatever--to just happen.

Therefore, they have to be managed. The power has to be hidden from them. And they have to feel a part of the process while being kept from knowledge of how much is really being done. Which is why we have the kabuki show of democracy with the Managerial State behind the curtain.

One area neoreaction has over others is that it would remove a lot of the duplicity in public relations. They wouldn't make a secret of the power being wielded.

Blogger tublecane October 29, 2017 5:28 AM  

@179-According to you, I guess. I don't mind it.

Anonymous James October 29, 2017 5:38 AM  

"According to you, I guess. I don't mind it"

You don't mind being a citizen/slave? How strange.

Anonymous Luke October 29, 2017 5:39 AM  

166. tublecane October 29, 2017 4:50 AM

"Debt labor, or bondage based on owing money. I'm not talking simply about being in debt and having to work to get out of it. Maybe never getting out of it. Because that is dischargable. We don't have debtor's prison anymore. I mean when you're coerced into doing work you wouldn't otherwise do because you're in debt."

You must never have heard about the hundreds of thousands of men (virtually no women) currently imprisoned for failing to pay child support (that they never agreed to).

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass October 29, 2017 5:56 AM  

Not Episcopal, knew this was coming, and am EXTREMELY pissed off. BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND. IF THIS IS ALL GONNA KICK OFF, LET'S GET TO IT. I'm not getting any younger.

Blogger The Kurgan October 29, 2017 5:57 AM  

Oh I'd say Protestantism was more than a mistake. It was literally the most successful attack by the enemy on the church.

Blogger Stilicho October 29, 2017 6:54 AM  

@the Kurgan: looking back on 500 years of Christian freedom today, I'd say the most successful attack by the enemy on the church was the abandonment of scripture I favor of pharisee philosophy by the Roman church. All else flowed from this: praying to dead people instead of Christ, papacy, indulgences, marists, treasury of merit, works over faith, jesuits, gay pedophile priests... the list goes on.

Ad fontes! Scripture is foundational and the church of Rome subordinates it to momentary preferences at its peril.

You too have doubts regarding Rome (at least since Vatican II). For me, that was just a more recent example of a long history of Rome following the world instead of Jesus.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 29, 2017 7:17 AM  

@IreneAthena: "Who needs meaningful work? The goal of permaculture (a field where discoveries and methodologies are still being made/developed) is long afternoons spent in a hammock, watching the perennial vegetables yield with minimal intervention from you. It is a lifestyle something like what the Africans enjoyed, back when fruit hung from tree limbs bending low, and there was time to enjoy the good life, and the making of art, like polyphonic music. I am surprised at the gloomy lack of imagination on display here, from a group of people that includes men of letters."

This speaks almost perfectly to your basic misunderstanding and denial of actual human nature. I note, in addition that you have made several (at least) patently false claims on this page alone.

Here is the truth of what happens to humans with their human nature when put into what living people nigh-universally think of as a paradise. They ensure their own utter extinction within a few generations. That angel with the flaming sword whom God set to guard the gates of paradise? It's not a joke, your generations will be outright cut off if you try to enter into a fallen-earthly paradise.

People (and animals too, actually) placed into a paradise-like environment universally turn hedonistic. There's nothing to life for them but to enjoy the pleasures of it. Invariably this leads to a few things:

#1: Physical weakness.
#2: Mental weakness.
#3: No immediate consequences for weakness and errors.

These conditions lead invariably to:

#4: Reckless reproduction.
#5: Weak individuals reproducing rather than dying young.

The result of these conditions is a very, very rapid degeneration of the society's members. They quickly accrue harmful mutations and maladaptations that the scythe of death would cull from a normal population under stress. Several "strange attractors" come into play:

#1: A caste of "the beautiful ones" arises. These are generally males with no interest in reproductive sex. They spend all of their time eating and grooming and never leave offspring. These are the direct result of the less-virile males reproducing for a few successive generations.

#2: Females begin to be much more combative, both among themselves and with the males. This results because there is nothing of real importance to fight over, and because even an injured female can easily feed herself, contrary to a non-paradisical environment where even a perfectly healthy female will have much more difficulty feeding herself than a male will. (This is amplified even further in the non-paradisical "real world" if the female has children. Both feeding an adequate care at the same time becomes effectively impossible on her own.)

#3: Females begin to cast their young out before they can keep themselves alive. They stop caring about their children. Part of this is because of mutations and maladaptations. Part of this is because of the social/cultural disintegration caused by a complete lack of competitive/cooperative pressures.


These (along with many other perverse, degenerate, and sinful behaviors permitted by a modern "earthly paradise") invariably result in viable birth rates coming to a dead halt, permanently and literally.

The workings of the human races are such that they derive vitality from exposure to stress, and hereditary strength from death (of the unfit). As brutal and uncaring as it sounds, this is reality and ignorance of reality will kill you.


TL;DR: "Permaculture" is a quite obvious lie. It's also extremely representative of your contributions to this thread: Obvious lies, aspersions and distractions while you try to force your emotion-cult-delusions on all of us.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 29, 2017 7:21 AM  

I will also note that neither polyphonic music nor letters ever came out of Africa.

Blogger Dire Badger October 29, 2017 7:33 AM  

@166:
" We don't have debtor's prison anymore."

(laugh) Friend, I have a bridge in San Fransisco I can let you have CHEAP! The Tolls alone will pay off your initial investment in less than 6 months.

Or haven't you heard of 'Family court'?

Slavery and debtor's prison are alive and doing extraordinarily well in this country.

Blogger Dire Badger October 29, 2017 7:35 AM  

Luke wrote:166. tublecane October 29, 2017 4:50 AM

"Debt labor, or bondage based on owing money. I'm not talking simply about being in debt and having to work to get out of it. Maybe never getting out of it. Because that is dischargable. We don't have debtor's prison anymore. I mean when you're coerced into doing work you wouldn't otherwise do because you're in debt."

You must never have heard about the hundreds of thousands of men (virtually no women) currently imprisoned for failing to pay child support (that they never agreed to).



Beat me to the punch

Anonymous JAG October 29, 2017 8:46 AM  

Speaking of SJW convergence, I'm late to this Red Pill Black drama. To be honest, I was not even aware of this person at all. Credit has to go to Andy Warski for sniffing out the undercover SJW.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 29, 2017 9:27 AM  

IreneAthena wrote:Here's Mr. Rational weighing in on spiritual matters. He'd be having dark meat for lunch instead of sending it back to Africa, but he's afraid of the prions.
I've already said that the proper use is as pet food and slop for hogs we're going to ship to China.  If there are some prions still in, it's payback for melamine in baby formula.

Oh, God save us.
Get used to disappointment.

Rashadjin wrote:A baby's mental development starts in the womb and reacts to signals that the mother's body sends it.
And even more to the genes it starts with.

Basically, America is raising its black population to be feral. The non-feral blacks that escape that fate are productive members of society and worthy of their place, at least until black identity politics consumes them.
America isn't raising anything anymore.  It's letting nature play out in an artificial resource-rich environment instead of controlling, suppressing and removing ferals.  This lets the normal African r-selection and "big man" social organization come to the top.  Several generations of dysgenic (in Western society) selection have done the rest.

A life of resentment and anger does rot the brain.
That's probably something like the MAOA-A gene; the brains were born rotten.  If anger was adaptive in Africa evolution would select for it.  It was certainly maladaptive in Sweden; if people who have to huddle together all winter to avoid freezing got angry all the time, they wouldn't survive.

Someday soon we'll have these genes and their interactions all mapped out, and be able to identify the congenital ferals with a blood test.  IQ, too.

If we were raising white kids the same way we were raising black kids, most of them would turn out feral and worthless too.
Known to be wrong for over 40 years.  It's the genes.

Anonymous Guardian October 29, 2017 10:42 AM  

Having long doubted whether Episcopalians are Christian, I now doubt if they are American. Given their empty pews, I am not alone.

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 29, 2017 10:52 AM  

If it’s all genetics,Mr Rational, then there’s no such thing as culture and what you consider education and culture is merely illusion.

There’s overwhelming evidence that it’s both.

Yes, nature (genetics) sets the limits of what you can become.

Nurture (culture) determines what you actually become.

This is so obvious only a philosopher would need it spelled out for him.

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 29, 2017 10:53 AM  

In sum, mixing multiple probability distributions, as both genetics and cultures do, can surprise you.

Anonymous David of One October 29, 2017 11:11 AM  

Some of the reason for these "gentle sensitivities" for a very small few with wanton offense to the many is apparent ...

http://www.historicchristchurch.org/about-us/clergy/

Blogger Rez Zircon October 29, 2017 11:43 AM  

An appropriate target for a large gathering bearing crosses.

And pitchforks, to muck out the midden.

Blogger Artisanal Toad October 29, 2017 11:48 AM  

To hear the various pronouncements on slavery is amusing, especially coming from a so-called "Christian" perspective.

1. God does not change, God's Law is perfect and it is complete. Because He said so.

2. God is perfectly comfortable with slavery and He gave his rules for how slavery is to be implemented.

3. To claim that slavery is immoral is a lie because Only God gets to decide what is moral and immoral, but such an assertion is likewise to claim that God got it wrong and mere man needs to "correct" God on this issue.

4. ALL Christians are, by definition, voluntarily slaves who were purchased with a price that was paid in blood, by Christ. They became permanent slaves according to the Law of the Bondservant.

5. To claim that slavery is wrong or immoral is to claim that Christianity is wrong or immoral.

6. Because Christians are slaves and their Master paid the price for sin, Christians are not held to the standards of the Law but rather to the standards of their Master. It is not the Law (or God) that has changed, it is the status of the Christian.

7. Because ordinary Christians do not read or study the Bible, they are completely confused and misinformed by their "Professional Christian" who only knows what he/she was taught in seminary. Seminaries do not teach the Bible, they teach accepted doctrine using the bible for support.


In other words, the Nicolaitans won.

The most absurd part is that it isn't difficult for Christians to throw off this yoke and accept the Bible for what it says, but Christians prefer to live in adultery and attack anyone who brings them the truth. Because *tradition* is so very important, even when it is in conflict with the Word of God.

Anonymous Didas Kalos October 29, 2017 11:48 AM  

Buildings. Reminds me of Jesus' comments about THE TEMPLE when speaking to his disciples in Matt. 24. He didn't seem too concerned about it. The buildings would be destroyed. He was way more concerned with the people. Most here realize that. But God doesn't really care about 'historical' buildings. That's for us. In the light of Heaven and Eternity - minuscule.
The absolutely most important subject is that the Church of Jesus Christ have a Great Awakening, a Revival, a Regeneration/Refreshing, that will again have the spiritual power to enable men to be set free from sin and live holy as God intends his children to live; above the world system.

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