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Wednesday, October 04, 2017

"The art sucks"

Along with "no one will support this" and "HAHAHAHAHA LMFAO", "the art sucks" has been one of the constant refrains of comic SJWs since they first became aware of Alt★Hero a few days before the Freestartr launch. We had, of course, announced the project months before, but they simply hadn't paid it any heed until the first image of Rebel triggered them into a swarm.

Now, what those of you who have not paid attention to the SJW convergence in comics may not realize is that the art bar is considerably lower than you probably imagine it to be. For example, on the left is Kamala Khan, Ms Marvel, a teenage Muslim who is tragically afflicted with elephantiasis, but nevertheless, persists despite her handicap. On the right is Janelle Jeanneret, also known as Dynamique of the Global Justice Initiative, who I will remind is not supposed to be smoking while wearing her superhero outfit.


However, I do not subscribe to the genetic fallacy. The fact that malicious people of evil intent are seeking to discredit and disqualify the project does not necessarily mean that all of their criticism is invalid. Although I vastly prefer the Alt★Hero artwork by Cliff Cosmic, and would be quite happy to proceed with the project on that basis, Castalia House has always taken an iterative approach to quality. This is occasionally a little disturbing to some of our readers, who would prefer that we try to get everything flawless at the start, but the reality is that we're still learning what we're doing. And since the art is not the very best in the industry, that means it can be improved.

On a related note, if you think Alt★Hero looks amateurish, have a look at the formatting of some of our early ebooks, or our first casebound hardcover. The latter was particularly bad; we used a paperback template and the back cover text wound up actually touching one side of the back cover. The choice of font was a mistake too, and the interior paragraph spacing was excessive. But we have worked steadily at improving the quality of our products, and now our print editions are generally superior to those offered by our mainstream competitors.

We are taking the same iterative approach to Alt★Hero, which is why I'm very pleased to announce that Marvel and DC Comics veteran colorist Matteo Mystic has joined the team. He sent over the following bio:

In the process of working with the best artists in the comic book business for well over a decade, Matteo Mystic learned the dark arts of the great colorists and earned the privilege of working on top Marvel and DC titles such as Spider-Man, X-Men, and Superman. But after experiencing a crisis of faith, he fled the industry to a monastery high in the Italian Alps. He now spends his days illuminating Bibles and his evenings utilizing his skills in alternative heroics.

Mr. Mystic will be coloring four of the first six volumes. You can see his first work on Alt★Hero at the Freestartr campaign, at the end of Dynamique's six-page introduction. I await with eagerness to hear the inevitable praise of those whose helpful advice we have taken to heart.

Labels:

186 Comments:

Blogger Desdichado October 04, 2017 10:06 AM  

Yeah, sure, he's no Jim Lee or Marc Silvestri or Adam Kubert. But who is? I completely agree that the quality of comic book art is not that great today—from a high point probably in the late 90s. But even then, it seems that there were rarely more than half a dozen or so "top" artists working in the entire industry at a time.

Blogger slarrow October 04, 2017 10:12 AM  

Been meaning to ask--how do you say Dynamique? dy-NAH-mick? dy-nah-MEEK? dy-na-mi-KAY? Some other way?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 04, 2017 10:15 AM  

I got no special geek license that says I am an official comic book art critic, but I love the art. And the critics of the art have got bupkus but snark, losers who can't.

When I get around to it I will be getting the hardcover and the last comic book I read was Sgt Rock way back in the 70s.

Anonymous Faceless October 04, 2017 10:16 AM  

Iteration is great; it's the only way to improve.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 10:17 AM  

I stopped going to even the occasional action movie after they all started being shot with a deadening blue filter, for grittiness, I think (or Matrix ripoff?). The Iron Man movie had the wisdom to break from this in spectacular American fashion.

How the heck does a new comic beat the pants off a seasoned one?

Same way Sensational She-Hulk beat the hell out of Savage She-Hulk. Color, humor, a light touch and no trite and retarded subtext.

Great art springs from good story. Great rhetoric defends the truth.

Anonymous Faceless October 04, 2017 10:22 AM  

@2

The French way.

https://forvo.com/word/dynamique/#fr

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 10:23 AM  

She-Hulk 1989

She-Hulk 2017

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 10:23 AM  

Been meaning to ask--how do you say Dynamique? dy-NAH-mick? dy-nah-MEEK? dy-na-mi-KAY? Some other way?

dee-nuh-MEEK.

Anonymous Eduardo October 04, 2017 10:25 AM  

Di-na-mick

That is probably how you are suppose to say it. The strong sillable is probably "na".



Anonymous Ain October 04, 2017 10:26 AM  

The size of the hands represents the size of the package.

Blogger Elocutioner October 04, 2017 10:29 AM  

"the art sucks"

Bitch, please. Google "mike allred marvel comics"

Anonymous CarpeOro October 04, 2017 10:35 AM  

Joined the Freestartr. Haven't bought a comic in years and had to get rid of several large boxes of them moving (have 1 still), but this is a milestone to get behind.

Blogger slarrow October 04, 2017 10:36 AM  

Thanks, Vox. It's a little thing, but it was bugging me a bit. It's good to have the right sound in my head now.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J October 04, 2017 10:38 AM  

Pixelated but promising. The figure is better than the background enviro but you want a seamless "I belong in this world/place/instance" to enmesh the character in his actions.

Anonymous Eduardo October 04, 2017 10:39 AM  

Dude this allred guy still looks good... He can even draw feet!

Dee-nuh-meek

Nuh....

Anonymous Looking Glass October 04, 2017 10:40 AM  

I love where you get these people. Mr. Mystic clearly is friends with Mr. Kalsi.

As to the "art", the line art was fine. It's in a style and sticks to it. It was that the coloring (really the shading) needed a second pass. And I see that's already being approached. (Heck, even the opening pages are improved from one to another. A sign that they were the somewhat-ready drafts.)

Blogger slarrow October 04, 2017 10:40 AM  

Oh, and thanks too, Faceless. That's a useful site you pointed me to.

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2017 10:43 AM  

Honestly, to my eyes his work improves the art significantly. Not being an artist, I can't tell you why, but it does.

Anonymous Frontier October 04, 2017 10:47 AM  

Has it been determined who is going to be writing Vol IV-VI? Will Vox be writing them, or is that up in the air right now?

Blogger bw October 04, 2017 10:53 AM  

The thing on the left is Tranny, at least, if not male. Perfect.
And does big hands mean unusually large Vag?

Blogger tz October 04, 2017 10:53 AM  

The low-rez Ms Marvel helps. I can imagine how much more ugly a Norman Rockwell type rendering would be.
Bad (uninteresting) characters.
Bad plot lines.
Bad art.

But this is the key to the left. They consume the capital - reputation, monetary, aesthetic, knowledge - after they take over and wonder why they always end up like Venezuela or Zimbabwe.

SJ is just the latest strain of the virus. Atlas Shrugged was Mises socialism made into literature. Now being made literal.

There are many small Galt's gulches springing up as the men of mind escape (or like Damore are forced) to the Galt archipelago. And the slow and incremental decline of civilization - like the Hepatitis C outbreak because of human feces on the streets which is plaguing many cities. And it will get worse.

Anonymous SanityClause October 04, 2017 10:55 AM  

Honestly, to my eyes his work improves the art significantly. Not being an artist, I can't tell you why, but it does.

It's the shading, that poor gal with elephantitasis has none, Dynamique does.

Blogger Lazarus October 04, 2017 11:00 AM  

@ 7.VFM #6306

If She Hulk 2017 is representative of SJW art, they cannot draw brown people. They just look like whites with a tan.

Anonymous Eduardo October 04, 2017 11:00 AM  

Since Vox is the writer, will the Volumes come with end of page explanations XD? On every page?

Her right hand looks waaaay too weird though. Honestly, not trying to bash the drawing, but I had a hard time deciphering what was going on there.

Her thigs are ... Wooow, does any model still own such a fastastic pair of thigs like these *cleans the drool*

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 11:01 AM  

2. slarrow October 04, 2017 10:12 AM
Been meaning to ask--how do you say Dynamique? dy-NAH-mick? dy-nah-MEEK? dy-na-mi-KAY? Some other way?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPdHaNr0OAY&feature=youtu.be&t=5s

Anonymous Yann October 04, 2017 11:05 AM  

The problem with Marvel are the stories, not the art. You don't need to compete with them in the artistic field (hard to do, anyway, they have tons of money). Just having art which is pro enough to not to shoo people away.

Having good stories is what will make the difference.

Anonymous SanityClause October 04, 2017 11:08 AM  

To amplify what I said, the shading of Dynamique makes her look 3-D, the lack of shading of the marvel character makes her look more 2-D.

But then, why make a character written as a flat, 2-D character look 3-D?

Anonymous Jerome Horowitz October 04, 2017 11:12 AM  

I like the artwork. I think it reflects more of the traditional comic book artwork.

Anonymous BBGKB October 04, 2017 11:15 AM  

Using Ms. Lesbian Fister is a bad example because SJWs don't get to see pretty girls in their lives.

Blogger Desdichado October 04, 2017 11:16 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:She-Hulk 1989

She-Hulk 2017

In fairness; while 2017 She-Hulk doesn't look feminine or pretty at all, she very definitely does look like a Hulk.

Anonymous SanityClause October 04, 2017 11:19 AM  

A question...

Would any of the current marvel "superheroes" have even a chance at winning at Stan Lee's TV show "who wants to be a superhero"? Do they have the inner fiber to even compete? Could, their characters, as older Stan Lee characters did, act to instruct young people in how to live their lives? See the winner of Stan Lee's show "Feedback" for an example, now their is a true superhero!

Example, they were all supposed to run through a shopping mall, to see who wins, or at least tries. Near the end, their is a crying child, only Feedback stopped to help the child. Forfeiting the race to help a child is the action of a true hero, I doubt modern "heroes" could even understand the concept.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 11:21 AM  

Has it been determined who is going to be writing Vol IV-VI? Will Vox be writing them, or is that up in the air right now?

I am writing all six volumes.

Anonymous Viiidad October 04, 2017 11:32 AM  

Yann wrote:

Having good stories is what will make the difference.


Yes. Story is center. This is why Dilbert works.

Anonymous User October 04, 2017 11:35 AM  

The art is adequate to the purpose. Sure I'd prefer if Vox could land Milo Manara or Frank Cho or an equivalent takent, but I hear the kids these days like this anime inspired stuff so maybe it'll even be beneficial.

Blogger Andrew Brown October 04, 2017 11:37 AM  

Mr Mystic sounds like a guy I'd love to meet!

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 11:38 AM  

In fairness; while 2017 She-Hulk doesn't look feminine or pretty at all, she very definitely does look like a Hulk.

In fairness, that means the art sucks. 50% accuracy in representing a character visually means the artist has been directed to blow it (either by himself or the editor).

That's the whole point: it doesn't matter how technically sound your craft is. If your art is subjugated to the the subversion of a character, for example, if your wonderful fogging skills end up muting the marvelousness of Captain Marvel, well, your art sucks, even if it is perfectly rendered fog.

John Byrne or whoever did the Sensational She-Hulk never lost sight that She-Hulk is the best character when she is a) funny b) awkward c) sexy d) unaccountable and e) aware of the fourth wall. She got her ass kicked a lot, too, which humanized her 50% hulkness.

The entire point of She-Hulk was that she didn't work as a Savage, Manly Feminized copy of Hulk (which was her origin).

Anonymous SanityClause October 04, 2017 11:39 AM  

The important thing isn't that you have a new colorist, the important thing is that your other artists can learn from your new colorist.

You'll graduate to "graphic novels" in no time.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 04, 2017 11:39 AM  

The artwork for Marvel has been getting lazy and cheap.

Traced photos used to be a big no-no. It was nearly an admission of incompetence. Now it's de rigeur for Marvel Comics.

The background coloring says a lot about tone and the tone for Marvel's books is chronic depression.

And then there is there complete inability to draw a sexually attractive female. These things used to be drawn with the adolescent lad in mind and they clearly don't care about that kid.

And at $4.00 an issue that boy probably can't afford it anyway.

In 1980 a typical title cost $0.40. Adjusted for inflation that's $1.26 in today's money according to dollartimes.com.

Anonymous Grayman October 04, 2017 11:39 AM  

Kamala Khan, Ms Marvel, a teenage Muslim

WHY HASNT SHE BEEN STONED TO DEATH YET?!?!?!?!? She is running around without a vale and in the presence of men outside of her family?!

Why does Marvel insist on disrespecting Islam in such a heinous manner?

Anonymous Nathan October 04, 2017 11:42 AM  

@39,

She's one of a few characters using Marvel employees and interns as models. Self-inserts for special snowflakes.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 11:42 AM  

the most offensive thing about the Dynamique "art" is the backgrounds.

this is in Europe. and the streets are supposed to be laid out in grids? in cities that are +1000 years old and had the road system designed by drunk farmers letting the mule find it's own cart path back home after a long Friday night in the mead cups?

bitch, please.


36. VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 11:38 AM
John Byrne or whoever did the Sensational She-Hulk



yes, Byrne.

Anonymous Anonymous October 04, 2017 11:42 AM  

From what I saw the art spans the "good enough" to "pretty good" range.

Criticisms:

- https://freestartr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Dynamique_001_680.png

This one has too much shading on the muscles in her belly and arms. It looks weird. Also her left tit projects an unrealistic, very dark shadow on the other tit. The "valley" in her cleavage is too dark. Shading on her cheekbone makes it look too large.

Rebel has the same problem in the trailer thumbnail: excessive shading on her abs, which creates shadows which do not match the lighting on the rest of her bod and face.

- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLSgdxdWsAAmNIx.jpg

I like this version much better, it is cleaner, with less distracting details. Without delineating each and every muscle, she looks a lot more feminine, and still baddass. The tit shadow is also much better. Lighting is more coherent. The side of her pelvis under the blue part of the outfit does look a bit weird though.

Also the orientation of her head agrees with her torso (she looks to her right), but she seems to be turning her pelvis to her left. If she was standing on the ground, that would give a reason for her feet to be in a certain position and she would be turning her upper body, but in the air it looks weird, there is no reason for her to twist.

I like her facial expressions in the published pages.

Captain Europa though... I love the way he's drawn, total walking BEEFCAAAAKE! Perfect match for his attitude.

Anonymous Anonymous October 04, 2017 11:51 AM  

About the iterative process:

After the digital comics are out, I suggest waiting a little bit for reader reviews and suggestions, perhaps touch-up a few pages if necessary and fix the unavoidable typos before printing the hardcovers. I did order both hardcovers, but would be willing to wait as long as necessary for best possible quality...

Anonymous Causal Lurker October 04, 2017 11:52 AM  

The Alt-Hero artwork is good, but there is room for iterative improvement. The character sketch and attitude conveyed? Already at high levels but some room for rising. Dynamique is drawn and posed with the insouciance expected of a Frenchwoman who really cannot be bothered by all the silly little rules. The image looks crisper and imparts its story better. It's the wink and "wait" index finger as she nonchalantly disposes of the offending item, high above the city. Perhaps it lands in the coffee cup of a senior bureaucrat, eh? This makes me smile and want to read more. Also makes me share (SHARE, boys!) with my nephews.

Alt-Hero is already winning, hands down. Que magnifique!

Anonymous The Old Sarge October 04, 2017 11:57 AM  

Dynamique. Hands down. No contest.

Blogger Nick S October 04, 2017 11:58 AM  

Grayman wrote:Why does Marvel insist on disrespecting Islam in such a heinous manner?

If only Marvel would have made Kamala Khan's arch enemy the "Camel Towing Company", she would have been a huge hit.

Blogger Desdichado October 04, 2017 11:59 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:In fairness; while 2017 She-Hulk doesn't look feminine or pretty at all, she very definitely does look like a Hulk.

In fairness, that means the art sucks. 50% accuracy in representing a character visually means the artist has been directed to blow it (either by himself or the editor).

Well, that's kind of my point. That wasn't a great example, because the "sucky" art is actually a great example of good art.

What it is is a failure of art direction and editing and writing. It's not a failure of the artist, though.

Blogger Dexter October 04, 2017 12:00 PM  

"Ms Marvel, a teenage Muslim who is tragically afflicted with elephantiasis"

Really? Not kidding? I thought they were just bad at drawing hands.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 04, 2017 12:01 PM  

But then, why make a character written as a flat, 2-D character look 3-D?

Think how good that color modeling will look on quality paper.

Anonymous Michael Maier October 04, 2017 12:03 PM  

Current "pro" comics are covered with garbage art covers. It has been years since I have seen anything in a comic store that looks good other than a few Jim Lee or Alan Davis covers (I can pick both out very quickly).

The art on ALT-HERO isn't my favorite style but it looks as though it will tell the story just fine. And the art is better than most of the stuff out there. Specifically, MS. MARVEL is awful. I couldn't believe what utter shite it was reading it in the Hugo package.

And NOBODY does SHE-HULK like John Byrne did during his FF run. He used to do such good babes...

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 12:03 PM  

i would guess that the 2017 She-Hulk is a copy of an earlier Hulk cover.

Anonymous User October 04, 2017 12:03 PM  

Seriously though the "drawings of beautiful women" niche has been abandoned by the fake hero comics, and we know that market is worth many millions.

As a bonus, it'll be even more triggering to the SJWs.

Anonymous GregMan October 04, 2017 12:05 PM  

Ms. Marvel gives differently-abled people an excellent body-affirmative role model for those who have tropical parasitic diseases, Proteus Syndrome, or very muscular hands caused by excessive masturbation. Away with your hate!

Anonymous Anonymous October 04, 2017 12:07 PM  

@44 - we would say "C'est magnifique!" ;)

@51 - check this Miss Marvel review as she goes full fascist and becomes a SJW wet dream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELL0MpyddA

Anonymous Brick Hardslab October 04, 2017 12:09 PM  

Vox, what's your favorite part of this project so far?

Anonymous CPEG October 04, 2017 12:10 PM  

Will there be a Hardcover #1 addon for Rebel figurine backers?

Blogger Lovekraft October 04, 2017 12:12 PM  

The left has succeeded in destroying beauty in art for decades as part of a coordinated and sustained campaign of denigrating western achievement.

They are the LAST people who we should listen to in this regard.

Paul Joseph Watson's take:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANA8SI_KvqI

Blogger buzzardist October 04, 2017 12:13 PM  

I can see room for improvement. Although some may be more a matter of personal preference, there may be places where the art and coloration needs adjustment to match the storyline. I can't offer any useful critique until I've seen the comics in full, however.

Some people simply like grittier worlds. The glossy, sharp designs for Dynamique may not play to some peoples' tastes. If that kind of art fits the kind of world Dynamique inhabits, however, it's appropriate. But if the world is seedy and dark, then the art needs to be grittier to match.

Looking at the samples on Freestarter, I definitely see some marked shifts in art style. The Dynamique pages are bright and sharp. The pages below that on this guy "cleaning up the streets one illegal at a time" are much more shadowy and a bit grittier, although still with pretty clean, defined lines. Is this shift good or bad? Hard to say without reading the respective stories first. If the world feels incoherent because of artwork shifts, that could be bad. But if it coherently conveys different parts of the same world (and different characters), it's fine.

I do think, though, that the last image on Freestartr, the cover image with three people and a damaged tank, looks off. The coloration, the sky, the lines...the art just doesn't appear consistent with any samples that come before it. It feels like a different artist's vision. For an entirely separate standalone volume? Maybe it would be fine. But if this art were interspersed with the Dynamique frames in the same volume, I'd have trouble making sense of its purpose.

Anonymous Uncle John's Band October 04, 2017 12:13 PM  

Anyone holding SJW Marvel art up as an unattainable standard ought to check out some Diversity and Comics reviews. Books like Squirrel Girl and Capt. Marvel are consistently terrible. Amateurish, even, despite the supposed big budget. The error is in assuming that quality product (by any conventional definition) is their goal. Hence the opening for Alt-Hero.

Blogger bw October 04, 2017 12:16 PM  

the "drawings of beautiful women" niche has been abandoned by the fake hero comics

Socio-sexual warfare agenda.
aka: "self-salvation"; Identity
"I profess you are OK, therefore I'm OK - except for those we claim are not OK, who need to be eliminated, Ok?

Changing Images of Man
technoccult.net/wp-content/uploads/library/changing-images.pdf

Anonymous Edjamacator October 04, 2017 12:19 PM  

When I had a ton of free time, I drew my own comic for fun. There's nothing wrong with the Alt-Hero art. It is a certain style, that's it. I also used to read a lot of comics (and learned from various artists). Everyone has a different style. Todd McFarlane's/Eric Larson's (IIRC) Spider-man "expressive eyes" were mocked at first, and yet now they are so standard that even the latest movie had to incorporate them.
All of Jim Lee's women look like hot Asian chicks. No one cares because they look like hot Asian chicks. It's his style. He is very detailed and the art looks good, which is all it has to be.
I recently went through an issue of "Silk" because it tied in to a Spider-Man arc, and truthfully, I thought that was the worst I'd ever seen. I couldn't even consider it a style, as it just looked bad.
So don't worry about the critics. The art, from what I've seen here, is fine. It's a comic book, and they mostly all look different. The latest Thanos looks very well done (I think it's the latest one....I'm reading them online) and does so simply because it is a darker, more moody style. I could see it looking like any other comic if they removed the moodiness.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 12:19 PM  

Vox, what's your favorite part of this project so far?

Seeing the foundations for a new institution begin to take form. I can't see the whole thing yet, but it's bigger than I anticipated.

Anonymous Jeff October 04, 2017 12:21 PM  

I'm no art critic either, but that's some very nice lighting effect on the right.

Blogger Lovekraft October 04, 2017 12:24 PM  

Must have missed something. Couple of comments mentions Mike Allred (of Madman fame). Is he being brought on or something?

My opinion as to the two best artists in comics today are: Bryan Hitch (the Ultimates 1 and 2 runs are amazing)and Frank Quitely.

Anonymous Trevor who was Trump October 04, 2017 12:25 PM  

Those people bashing Marvel drawn hands and not the hands on Dynamique are not being helpful. The fingers on her are ridiculous. I don't have a problem with any of the other art, but those hands particularly in the pic here still need some work. However I can't draw at all, so who am I to criticize.

Anonymous a_peraspera October 04, 2017 12:28 PM  

"I stopped going to even the occasional action movie after they all started being shot with a deadening blue filter, for grittiness, I think"

Yes...search teh interwebs for "why do all movies look orange and blue these days?"

It shows how all these movie makers copy each other.

Anonymous a_peraspera October 04, 2017 12:30 PM  

Oh and Dynamique's left hand looks good, while her right hand looks effed up.

Anonymous Alan V October 04, 2017 12:34 PM  

OT More evidence Paddock was a fed https://i.redd.it/gz6d4fvs9tpz.png

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2017 12:36 PM  

> Her right hand looks waaaay too weird though. Honestly, not trying to bash the drawing, but I had a hard time deciphering what was going on there.

She's throwing a cigarette away, but I agree there's something wrong with the way it's drawn. I think it's merely that her thumb is too long.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 04, 2017 12:39 PM  

Anyone who thinks that "bad" art dooms a comic needs to read a few dozen Krazy Kat strips.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 04, 2017 12:39 PM  

My prediction, you will soon be doing comics as its own full time project

Blogger L' Aristokrato October 04, 2017 12:40 PM  

More than anything, I'm really hoping this ends up becoming the birth of a new comics company/publisher.
Marvel and DC are both beyond terrible right now, and every other option on the market is lacking at best.
Comics may be the most untapped medium for storytelling around, having never really fully realized its potential.

As such, Alt-Hero's art may have its faults, but the artist is bound to get better with time, and in that sense, the project is even an investment in a potential great professional.
At the same time, most "mainstream" comics look worse, easily! I defy anyone to look at an entire issue of Squirrel Girl without puking.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 04, 2017 12:41 PM  

Are you serious about her hands? That is not a joke?

Anonymous aegis-1080 October 04, 2017 12:41 PM  

"The art is bad" said the people that took the dregs of Tumblr and pretended that they are big shots. SJWs lowered the bar, so it shouldn't be that hard to go over it.

Blogger RobertT October 04, 2017 12:44 PM  

Always better to be in the marketplace with something than to be perfect. Perfectionists never get to market.

Blogger Brad Matthews (Deplorabard) October 04, 2017 12:44 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 12:49 PM  

My prediction, you will soon be doing comics as its own full time project

That won't happen. It's just one of our many projects.

Blogger Dave October 04, 2017 12:57 PM  

Might as well pile on and add my nitpick. It looks like Dynamique's nose is smudged. If it is meant to be exhaled cigarette smoke it should be a thin wispy tendril as if she puffed it out off to the side of her mouth. Is it even necessary when we know she just flipped her cigarette away?

Wow critiquing comic art is fun.

Anonymous Eduardo October 04, 2017 1:04 PM  

@68

James, I think the initial drawing was meant to be the hand seen from below, so the thumb was suppose to be upward, but it seems he changed his mind mid drawing and decided to draw the hand from the side. But where is the stretched skin connecting index and thumb?

It was just a Liefeld moment that is all XD.

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2017 1:06 PM  

> That won't happen. It's just one of our many projects.

You're in the process of assembling a team. There's no reason they can't continue on without your assistance once assembled.

Blogger LP9 October 04, 2017 1:13 PM  

Those lying buzzkills their art isn't good, I dont like the term, but they suck.

Alt Hero Art is King.

Blogger LP9 October 04, 2017 1:16 PM  

Marvel is UGLY, TERRIBLE morphed hands, so ugly! Gross!

Blogger Dave October 04, 2017 1:21 PM  

SJW gamma comic police is back in the previous Alt★Hero thread.

Blogger Lovekraft October 04, 2017 1:23 PM  

Anyone on the left criticizing alt-hero has to FIRST answer for #comicgate:

co-ordinated attacks on comic critics, notably DNC, up to plans to provoke him into a fight at New York comic-con.

Capn Cummings, Douglas Ernst, Englentine, I Love Comics, and Just Some Guy should be supported as leading the charge.

Anonymous franklinjennings October 04, 2017 1:33 PM  

Dynamique Jeanneret?

Really, superchick is D Jeanneret?

My 4th grade teacher told me all comics were degenerate, so par for the course.

Moar peease!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 04, 2017 1:39 PM  

Been meaning to ask--how do you say Dynamique?
Dee-nam-eek

Anonymous Jeff October 04, 2017 1:40 PM  

D Jeanneret

Dynamique is actually her middle name. Her first name is Ellen.

Anonymous Steve Canyon October 04, 2017 1:41 PM  

Funny how The Muslim Marvel looks caucasian in face and in build. Maybe a trip to Iraq will teach them that virtually none of the women over there look like stereotypical belly dancers

Even in their diversity they're raciss...

Anonymous JJ Evans October 04, 2017 1:43 PM  

She's Dine-O-Mike!!!

Blogger The Lizard King October 04, 2017 1:43 PM  

As a 15 dollar backer I must say that I really love this version of Dynamique. My only criticism is that her right hand looks really wrong. Fix that and it would be perfect.

Looking forward to release. Not a comic book reader, but I'll support any attempt that tries to launch a counter-attack against the radical left on the cultural battlefield.

Blogger cheddarman October 04, 2017 1:46 PM  

will you sell life size Dynamique dolls? Asking for a friend.

Blogger Johnny October 04, 2017 1:47 PM  

There are a few things about the art don't like, but no point in me getting nitpicky. The stuff is easily up to the standard expected in a commercial product.

Anonymous Nathan October 04, 2017 1:52 PM  

@87,

"Even in their diversity they're raciss..."

For further illustration, listen to Hispanic comics readers rant about America Chavez being nothing more than a collection of stereotypes instead of the intended celebration of Latin culture.

Blogger Cetera October 04, 2017 2:02 PM  

I like both versions of Dynamique. The first looks a little simpler, and going for a 90s Marvel look where everything is kinda shiny/metallic:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/a/a8/The_Official_Marvel_Index_to_the_X-Men_Vol_2_5_Full_Cover.jpg

It is smooth, elegant, and fun.


The second is more of a modern look, lots of detail added in the coloration, going for a more realistic (or at least detailed) look. Seems more "mature" and "gritty," but not necessarily superior.

Both are great, and both can be great. It really depends on what you're shooting for. I think the first seems more light-hearted. The second seems more serious. I do enjoy both, and won't mind seeing either in my new comic books.

Blogger Wolfman at Large October 04, 2017 2:08 PM  

Sadly it looks like the body pillows will have to wait until work begins on issues 7-9.

Blogger LP9 October 04, 2017 2:17 PM  

86 Epic!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 04, 2017 2:19 PM  

Dexter wrote:Really? Not kidding? I thought they were just bad at drawing hands.
One of her superpowers is (no, I'm not kidding) to make her various body parts change size. Why she's a teenage girl who can do that and chooses to remain unattractive, I have no idea.

I went to the Marvel website to see if she has any other superpowers (she mist, right? RIGHT?), and found out that officially, according to Marvel, she doesn't exist.
https://marvel.com/universe/Ms._Marvel_(disambiguation)

Blogger Desdichado October 04, 2017 2:30 PM  

@96: The worst thing about is that the writers obviously see her as "cute" in a precocious teenager way—not necessarily sexually, but that she's supposed to be charming and disarming or something, and that her gushing fangrrl approach to superheroes she meets is supposed to make her likable.

I got this same vibe while enduring the first season of the Flash TV show; the writers actually have no idea what normal, healthy, interpersonal relations are like.

Anonymous Anonymous October 04, 2017 2:43 PM  

In case some forget, here's a friendly reminder of what SJWs really look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_82JYvF_oHo

Watch it, it's hilarious.

As a side note, I find it even more hilarious that the hottest chick in this video is the interviewer, who is a conservative tranny.

Blogger Lovekraft October 04, 2017 2:43 PM  

@90 Cheddarman:

"asking for a friend"

lolzlol

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 2:48 PM  

"realism" in comics is a canard.

as with chicks, there are only two controlling laws:
1 - be pretty
2 - don't be not pretty

there can be a lot of ways to do that, and many of them don't concern themselves all that much with 'correct anatomy'.

Liefield, of course, may be the prime exemplar of someone who's made a LONG career in comics of drawing things that aren't even biologically plausible.

but most of the other big names did likewise. it just that their "styles" aren't so egregious.

Byrne has long been renowned. i always like Walt Simonson quite a bit. Arthur Adams has never done as much work as you would think.

here's the Art Adams take on the God Emperor:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/art-adams/4040-2378/images/

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 2:48 PM  

Brick Hardslab wrote:Vox, what's your favorite part of this project so far?

I think it is safe to assume that the favorite part is the intellectual stimulation that comes from adapting a long-form written art to a visual expression based on short-form storylines.

No, wait. I meant the REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.

Blogger Jesse October 04, 2017 2:54 PM  

Very good attitude, Vox. Really appreciate it.

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2017 2:56 PM  

> Sadly it looks like the body pillows will have to wait until work begins on issues 7-9.

As I think I posted on one of the earlier threads: https://www.zazzle.com/create_your_own_body_pillow-256666177637175084

Anonymous Killua October 04, 2017 2:57 PM  

First: Story is more important than art. Look at One Punch Man. It started as a webcomic with very mediocre art but managed to become a famous world hit because it had the right components for a good manga: a creative premise (a guy who defeats every oponnent with one punch), good humor, and a creative mix of characters with cool superpowers.

As a begginer artist I would love to be a part of this but I have to get a tablet and get my drawing skills sharpened first. I really hope this becomes an ongoing rather than a one time thing.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 04, 2017 2:58 PM  

Haven't contributed to Alt Hero yet, things are a bit tight at the moment. But I just wanted to say that I really like the art work and everything else I've seen about it even though I've never been a comic book guy. Of the two samples above I like Alt Hero much better.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 04, 2017 3:02 PM  

One thing I find absolutely annoying about "conservatives," particularly conservative media, is how all they do is complain about what they left is doing. Complaining is a defensive posture. It's a losing attitude and a guaranteed path to defeat.

People might ridicule the idea of creating a new comic, but it's taking a step toward replacing the rot in our culture with something good.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 04, 2017 3:04 PM  

For example, on the left is Kamala Khan, Ms Marvel, a teenage Muslim who is tragically afflicted with elephantiasis,
---

It's not the elephantisis that is tragically afflicting her.

Blogger S1AL October 04, 2017 3:07 PM  

"Funny how The Muslim Marvel looks caucasian in face and in build. Maybe a trip to Iraq will teach them that virtually none of the women over there look like stereotypical belly dancers"

Depends on what you mean by "over there".

Blogger Scott Birch October 04, 2017 3:14 PM  

What happened to your first artist? I hope he's still around. I like his work.

Anonymous patrick kelly October 04, 2017 3:20 PM  

"Janelle Jeanneret, also known as Dynamique of the Global Justice Initiative, who I will remind is not supposed to be smoking while wearing her superhero outfit."

Looks like she is smoking no matter what she is wearing, or not wearing ---

Blogger Silly but True October 04, 2017 3:25 PM  

I am a backer. This update pleases me more than the initial project. As a matter of constructive criticism, I was not sold by the art alone. There are very entertaining projects that can work well with its kind of aesthetic - a sort of like Penny Arcade. Many of which I enjoy.

The only real Observation I can make that has any practical meaning is to note that Image Comics began with an entire line of shitty Marvel knockoffs with mostly horrible art.

They went up from there.

I wish nothing but the best to Cliff Cosmic: this is a tremendous opportunity to do great things. But I suspect the team knows all that already.

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 04, 2017 3:35 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:
She-Hulk 1989

She-Hulk 2017


In Current Year Marvel, that's "He-She Hulk".

Blogger Matthew October 04, 2017 3:44 PM  

Some people need to internalize that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Blogger Elocutioner October 04, 2017 3:47 PM  

The art is fine.

And - Xe Hulk?

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 3:54 PM  

so, to close the loop on the criticism Dyna ... er, George is getting in the above comparison:
the 'problem' doesn't really have anything to do with the anatomical correctness of the hand. sure, there may be some "problems" with proportion or joint position or something.

but the only reason it's an issue is because the Tree is drawing attention away from the Forest. had people not been trying to explain ( to themselves ) why the hand looks so odd, they'd have never examined it under the microscope in the first place.

the artist may have a good reason why the hand looks like that. perhaps she's throwing a "hang loose" sign or something.

but you need to stand bac

https://www.google.com/search?q=hang+loose&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi758HD3dfWAhVr2oMKHQCpDoQQ_AUICigB&biw=1131&bih=712

but you need to stand back when you're done and ask if the hand conforms to the stylism of the rest of the picture.

and i would agree, George and her one gimp hand is ALWAYS going to be a way better choice for a body pillow than SmugFace Homo McFister on the left.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 04, 2017 3:55 PM  

It is a well known truth that no woman ever became more attractive after she became a feminist.

The same goes for comic book girls.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2017 4:01 PM  

"Some people need to internalize that the perfect is the enemy of the good."

amen brother.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 04, 2017 4:03 PM  

The idea that Marvel artists do not do this sort of thing regularly is just naive. I have thousands of Marvel comics in my apartment that sport badly drawn hands. (Wish I could bloody SELL some of them, in fact, but it's not the hands that make that a problem. It's the fact that nobody wants this ****.)

There are a bunch of gamma nit-picking loons out there on both sides of the political spectrum carping and whining to beat the band. Just enjoy the bloody comic, I say. If you're a professional artist, you can criticize. If you can do a better job, send Vox your resume. If not, the correct way to express your disapproval of the art is not to back the Freestartr.

But I think we all know that's an ... er ... nonstartr.

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 04, 2017 4:49 PM  

"Some people need to internalize that the perfect is the enemy of the good."

No.

We need to realise that perfect is unattainable but that this is not an excuse for not getting better.

Good and perfect are, biblically, the same thing, because good is an absolute.

But we use good to mean acceptable, and better than that is always possible.

Castaliah House is not expecting to attain perfection, but they aim at it in the sure knowledge that this is how they become continually better.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 04, 2017 4:55 PM  

@26

"The problem with Marvel are the stories, not the art."

Nope. It's the art too. Sorry, but it's true.

Blogger Ceasar October 04, 2017 5:05 PM  

I like it except for the man hands and feet. At this point I don't think the artistry is the most important thing, it will be improved in time, but getting a good alternative out there for comic lovers. Great job VD!

Blogger Raben Wulf October 04, 2017 5:49 PM  

Regarding the semi-general assumption and or consensus that only SJW are the ones suggesting the art "sucks"... that simply is not the case. There are those of us who support alt-hero and what it represents who also tend to fall into the "the art looks amateur" category, yet still want the project to succeed.

I am one such person. Alt-Hero is a great response to the current state of SJW dominated comics, especially for those who used to be comic book fans but had to clock out due to the demise of their hobby. It is true, SJW art has fallen... but many of us still have the good stuff that isn't exactly new, but set the bar for quality.

As Vox pointed out, there are those who, not so much shocked, but desire/believe in starting off strong visually. There are pros and cons to each approach. If the art was some of the best out there, if it matched up to the bar set by comics when they were at their best, it would have an incredible amount of impact. SJW would definitely melt down because they see the alt-right or just any non SJW doing everything better than them. It would also pull a lot of the jaded comic book fans back into being interested in the medium again. The con however is that it also sets expectations incredibly high.

This is actually a tactic they used to use in the industry. The best artist would make amazing cover art, and the first set of comics would have the best art on the inside. However they begin to replace the artist after a certain point, usually the quality and art style plummet. They hope, by this time, you are already invested into collecting the comic that you keep on going regardless, or perhaps its an investment into the story.

If you start off low, playing it safe rather than go "big" you then have the freedom for a massive amount of improvement. The con is that the start is usually slow, meaning you are probably not hitting as many readers as you would want, as well as being stuck with whatever the firs impression of the comic was at the time. Negative first impressions are harder to change than positive ones. It also creates the problem of not necessarily being able to go back and redo all the art. Its why the industry tends to "reboot" an existing franchise, both to bring new life into the franchise and to give current readers something more current to start with. DC's new 52's for example.

I am glad to hear that a new colorist has been added to the project. In my opinion, inkers are just as important if not more so than the colorist, in part because a good sketch with solid inking can really empower the colorist. Its not necessarily easy for a colorist to make something good if the inking is not there. The other criticism I have involves backdrops and the color theory. Too much saturated and bright colors in the background can wash out the importance of the action or character in the panel. Thus there is a bit of theory at play, what do you want to draw attention to? If its the environment, you might make the character more of a silhouette, if its the character the environment would be more about silhouette or neutered colors. There are other techniques that help, such as cross hatching and toning.

See:
Cross Hatching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gd_ZkJ7N-k
Tones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTs23SRtsDw
Coloring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10FCEL_Nv90

There is definitely a pipeline involved, and due to software advancements this pipeline can be done fairly quickly depending on the level of detail. Applications like Clip Studio Paint (which hails from Japan) have automated a lot of comic book work, so if the artist want to use (not much different from photoshop in terms of workflow), there is an incredibly low bar of entry (Starting at like $30). It would be an incredibly small investment for a key pipeline tool.

You can even extract line art from photos, which is an incredibly fast way of generating backgrounds or static objects in a panel.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqNOZ0PR1gA

Anonymous Uncle John's Band October 04, 2017 5:57 PM  

I don't think I have ever formed an opinion of a comic based on the composition of a hand.

Comics have to be bigger than life if they are going to hook someone (usually a kid). That's what got 6 year old me. You can get away with cheesy, so long as there is wonder and pathos. The story and art work together together in that regard. Comicgate has made me read a few recent Marvels, and, setting aside the SJW crap, it is amazing how bland and boring they are. No one is being hooked by the likes of them. It is actually a bit unbelievable that fiction this poor is being published.

If Alt-Hero can provide not just action, but pathos and stirring triumph, it really will be making comics great again. The art we've seen so far shouldn't impede that.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 6:17 PM  

Regarding the semi-general assumption and or consensus that only SJW are the ones suggesting the art "sucks"... that simply is not the case. There are those of us who support alt-hero and what it represents who also tend to fall into the "the art looks amateur" category, yet still want the project to succeed.

It absolutely is the case. The art does not, and has never "sucked". It falls squarely into the "talented amateur" category, which is not even remotely close to the "sucks" category. The same people who claim the art sucks also claim the writing sucks, that no one will back the campaign, that the campaign cannot possibly be in the black, and that nothing will be delivered to the backers.

It's utter bullshit and is nothing more than the usual SJW attempt to demoralize, discredit, and disqualify.

We've already got a better colorist than pretty much every web comic in the world, including some that have raised over a million in their kickstarters. That has gained us absolutely no credit with anyone who claimed the art sucked, as we knew it would not. SJWs do not abandon their Narrative simply because it isn't true, after all.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 6:21 PM  

I am one such person.

That being said, thanks very much for the support. I don't mind constructive criticism in the slightest. That is how we get better. But I absolutely deny that there is ANY truth to the SJW Narrative about Alt-Hero.

Anyhow, I'm not concerned with how a dramatically shrinking industry has historically done things. We are not paying any attention to their business model at all. It's just not relevant to us.

Blogger Raben Wulf October 04, 2017 6:46 PM  

The SJW will find any reason to attack projects that act as a counter to their agenda/world view. I agree there is no truth based on that merit. My contention is that anyone with criticism towards the art need not be a SJW hoping the project will fail. The SJW commentary is just the noise, the "reeee-action" if you will.

That said, I do think this is the start of something good. We are starting to see a demand for alternatives that counter the SJW takeover, whether its comics, video games or any other form of entertainment. Narrative telling is becoming the front line in this culture war. There has to be a handful of old school artist, game developers...ect that want to protest or counter the hijacking of their industries, but are too afraid to do so. If alt-hero can start a counter narrative and provide an alternative in comics, something to encourage these creatives to create without fear of losing their livelihoods, then all the more power to them.

You are also right, Vox, in that with online comics (see http://www.webtoons.com/en/) and the medium (digital only) which is quite popular in Korea today, what is posted now on freestartr is in line with the expectations.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 04, 2017 6:47 PM  

"the artist may have a good reason why the hand looks like that. perhaps she's throwing a "hang loose" sign or something."

She's just flicked away the cigarette she's been smoking. It's not any type of hang loose or horns sign.

If there's anything wrong with that hand at all, it's that the thumb and forefinger are quite a bit wider apart than any normal human's can go (certainly mine are hard pressed to make a ninety degree angle, and that's nearly a hundred and fifty).

I chalked it up to superhuman flexibility. If she ends up having that, then there really won't be any problem with that hand except that it looks strange to the uninitiated.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 04, 2017 6:49 PM  

Alternately, her right arm's angle is well forward of her body (toward the viewer) and her wrist is bent backward at an unnatural angle. That would allow a ninety degree angle of her fingers to appear as much more, depending on the exact angle involved.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 6:50 PM  

My contention is that anyone with criticism towards the art need not be a SJW hoping the project will fail.

I totally agree. But "the art sucks, it will always suck, and nothing you ever do can possibly change that" is not criticism. It's textbook SJW demoralization game, which is the same game the concern accountant/project manager is playing.

Blogger tuberman October 04, 2017 6:51 PM  

"South Park" is a cartoon, and not a comic, yet in many ways "South Park" IS like a video comic. Look at how vastly important the fantastic art work is there to become one of the greatest hits ever."South Park" actually shows a disdain for critical art work, as everything was in the humor and stories. Yeah, i know comics are different then cartoons, and art is important, but to me, it is nice, although very secondary.

I personally would like great story lines with all that, that means, including humor, action, and occasional dragon slaying.

Also, make sure there is obvious making fun of the SJWs, and all globalists, as it will add to the REEEEE! I feel this last part is critically important for this time period, as it is time to attack. Use everything.

In other words, you can be subtle, but make sure the audience knows Globalists and SJWs are the dragon.

Blogger Michael October 04, 2017 7:01 PM  

Never discount the value of a good colorist, they can turn good into gorgeous.

Blogger Raben Wulf October 04, 2017 7:13 PM  

On a side note, this cover from alt-hero is really top notch:
https://freestartr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/AH_012.png

The styling is very good.

Blogger S1AL October 04, 2017 7:26 PM  

Yeah, in terms of digital comics I'd say this top shelf. It's still showing of the top 5-10, and obviously it's not 'Girl Genius' quality, but that's a bit like saying you're not an Olympic-quality soccer player.

It's as good as early Buck Godot, though, and dramatically better than early Erfworld.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 04, 2017 7:26 PM  

this cover from alt-hero is really top notch

I said Alex Maleev and Michael Gaydos, but now that I really look at it, what I mean is Brandon Peterson. Like this:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/0/0f/Ultimate_Vision_Vol_1_0.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20131124182535

It's VERY good stuff. Not perfect, but totally worth reading.

Blogger S1AL October 04, 2017 7:26 PM  

*short of the top 5

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 7:30 PM  

The styling is very good.

All of the art in Volumes III and VI will look like that. We'll be releasing an image of Rebel in that style soon.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 7:31 PM  

I said Alex Maleev and Michael Gaydos, but now that I really look at it, what I mean is Brandon Peterson. Like this:

I'd be more impressed if the robot wasn't almost completely ripped off from Michael Whelan's Robots of Dawn cover for Isaac Asimov.

Blogger VD October 04, 2017 7:31 PM  

Unless, of course, Whelan ripped it off from him. I suppose that is possible.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf October 04, 2017 7:34 PM  

My childhood memories rest with 1989 ed. The newer art is too mature for me to relax and enjoy. I sort of get tense just looking at 2017. It doesn't seem like it's going to be "fun" to read.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 04, 2017 7:40 PM  

We'll be releasing an image of Rebel in that style soon.

I can't frickin' wait. Make the Rebel t-shirt in that style. Also, it looks like Whelan's cover for Asimov predates Peterson's Vision series, so I have been schooled. Thanks. I should not be surprised by now.

All the same, I do like the style, and I think that tank cover is not wildly dissimilar.

Anonymous Man of the Atom October 04, 2017 7:41 PM  

VD wrote:Unless, of course, Whelan ripped it off from him. I suppose that is possible.

Wheelan: 1984

Peterson: 2007-2008

Blogger tuberman October 04, 2017 7:45 PM  

I want to see the reaction of the age 9-16 kids for the medium and long term story on Al*Hero. It's always the new blood that counts the most, but adults can get it started.

Anonymous Uncle John's Band October 04, 2017 7:55 PM  

"I want to see the reaction of the age 9-16 kids for the medium and long term story on Al*Hero. It's always the new blood that counts the most, but adults can get it started."

The potential here is what has them so terrified. The smarter ones anyhow.

Anonymous Avalanche October 04, 2017 8:11 PM  

@36 " a new colorist, the important thing is that your other artists can learn from your new colorist."

Oh, I dunno. No offense to Mr. Mystic but I actually prefer the first and fourth pages with the flatter/clearer drawing style. The other pages (different artists?) not so much. She looked so sexy -- and effective in first page, and page four was evocative of how she was feeling. (On the 6th page, she seemed about 14 - NOT the sexy m'selle we met on page 1.)

(But, I'm not steeped in comics, ahven't read and since -- what Archie and the gang? How many decades ago was that?)

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot October 04, 2017 8:12 PM  

For some reason it reminds me of Project A-ko, but I'm not sure why ...

The train is fine.

Anonymous Bob October 04, 2017 8:17 PM  

For what it's worth, I really quite like the artwork from the Dynamique introduction pages. It sort of brings to mind The Incredibles, in that it is a clean and simple take on the Western superhero art style.

I've seen lazy-looking comics. I've seen overly realistic, busy comics. And I've seen overly-stylized comics (very big in the 80's, especially on DC's side). Alt★Hero doesn't presently have any of those problems, and to me that's more than enough.

Anonymous Jack October 04, 2017 8:21 PM  

I agree that the art doesn't look as professional as Marvel, but I'm also going to back the project once I figure out what tier I want to reach. I like the attitude of self-improvement, though. Here's to finding and being able to recruit more talented artists.

While I'm certain the people behind Alt-Hero can appreciate the similarities between SJW for its own sake and anti-SJW for its own sake, my main worry is that the characters will fall into that trap. I would love to see a quality product with real characters that serve a purpose greater than just to lampoon the current societal environment. Satire accomplished through believable characters will pull in readers in general, which will have more success than just pandering to the alt-right crowd. Because the alt-right IS in line with reality it should be achievable to make realistic characters with reasonable ideals rather than just thinly-veiled talking points wrapped up in a comic book.

Blogger Elder Son October 04, 2017 8:36 PM  

Well the pic you posted here is good, but work on the knees. Well, legs.

And you need to turn The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers into Alt-Hero.

Anonymous Avalanche October 04, 2017 8:36 PM  

@57 "I do think, though, that the last image on Freestartr, the cover image with three people and a damaged tank, looks off. The coloration, the sky, the lines...the art just doesn't appear consistent with any samples that come before it. It feels like a different artist's vision."

It's three separate comics! Two in the U.S., one in France. Three *separate* storylines. Please go back to the Freestartr page and read all that text -- it makes clear there are two alt-hero "leagues" and then the alt-heros caught up in / caught BY the military...

I thought the third line, with the tank and the ... interesting looking heros ... looked to be a good DIFFERENT thread in the same world. LOVE Dynamique; can't wait to 'meet' Rebel (I'm guessing she's in the U.S. League, not the miltiary... but we'll see!)

Blogger cerhat October 04, 2017 8:58 PM  

Nobody at marvel is in any position to be casting "the art sucks" stones. LOL

Blogger Wolfman at Large October 04, 2017 9:11 PM  

I'm just worried that Vox won't be able to restrain himself from say having Anders Breivik as president of Norway in this alternate timeline.

Anonymous Avalanche October 04, 2017 9:16 PM  

@147 ' I would love to see a quality product with real characters that serve a purpose greater than just to lampoon the current societal environment."

VOX DAY is writing it! Why would you think it would be that simplistic and ham-handed?! Have you not read his books?!

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2017 10:01 PM  

> Nope. It's the art too. Sorry, but it's true.

The art at Marvel has been going downhill since the late 90's at least.

> The art does not, and has never "sucked". It falls squarely into the "talented amateur" category, which is not even remotely close to the "sucks" category.

Agreed. As I said, it's not my cup of tea, but there's nothing wrong with it. And as long as the stories and characters are good, I can deal with it.

> The potential here is what has them so terrified. The smarter ones anyhow.

As I said in an earlier thread, the SJW's know the secret to indoctrination is the get the kids young. This terrifies them.

> How many decades ago was that?

Archie is still going. It's fully converged though. If you get a chance sometime read the Archie meets the Punisher crossover.

> I agree that the art doesn't look as professional as Marvel

Classic Marvel? No. Current Marvel? From what I've seen, it's better. Thor is one of Marvel's top line comics, and excerpts I saw from the recent series with the female Thor sucked.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit October 04, 2017 10:14 PM  

Artists, like any other skilled craftsmen, learn and improve by doing. Based on the funding the Freestartr raised, and the production pace, your craftsmen are going to be very busy. Since they're starting from a strong visual storytelling base, I expect the line work and draftsmanship will improve markedly from "good enough" to excellent.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 04, 2017 10:15 PM  

"obviously it's not 'Girl Genius' quality"

Disagree. That webtoon is its own style entirely... and the artist also does (or did) porn art, so...

Also, I dislike that style quite a bit. Can't do faces to save their lives. All faces are stylized smiley faces and the only differences are the mouths.

Blogger Junius Stone October 04, 2017 10:57 PM  

Again, the support coming in quicker than anticipated. At this rate, I think the 100k mark will be hit in four-five days. With plenty of time left.

Blogger The Observer October 04, 2017 11:07 PM  

$800 to $70,000.

Wew lads, let's do this!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 04, 2017 11:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 04, 2017 11:22 PM  

tuberman wrote:I want to see the reaction of the age 9-16 kids for the medium and long term story on Al*Hero.

Last night my 14-year-old daughter brought over the x-men comic she got from the library. "X-Men '92" I think (it was copyright 2017).
She said "Dad, it's weird, they do everything they can to cover Wolverine's face with the hat, and look at this one, the hat is like 4" to the right of the top of his head. Don't they know how to draw?"
Then she saw I was looking at the Dynamique pages off of Freestartr.
"What's that, is that a real comic? What is it? Do you know anything about it? Can I read it? Where's the rest?" When I explained it was a kickstarter, the conversation changed somewhat. "Are you supporting, did you pledge? How much? What do you get for that? Oh, who's that!?!?!? (referring to Rebel) Is she gonna have her own comic? Are you getting this, you really need to get this Dad. Can I buy it? How much does it cost? Are they gonna sell it for real? Do you think they'll have t-shirts? How much is the pledge to get her shirt? Did you pledge that much? Can I pledge? SHE'S SO COOL!"

So, based on a sample of 1;
Marvel art currently is literally incompetent, and
14-year-old girls will kill to get Rebel t-shirts.

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2017 11:23 PM  

> Also, I dislike that style quite a bit.

There's no accounting for taste. I understand some folks dislike Prince Valiant too.

Blogger S1AL October 04, 2017 11:24 PM  

"Disagree. That webtoon is its own style entirely... and the artist also does (or did) porn art, so...

Also, I dislike that style quite a bit. Can't do faces to save their lives. All faces are stylized smiley faces and the only differences are the mouths."

The Foglios have done all kinds of stuff, in a pretty wide variety of styles. I dunno what you mean on the faces - they do over-expressed stuff a lot to convey emotion, but beyond that I can recognize any given major character based on the face.

That said, I actually meant it holistically. There's no other webcomic that has that level of total quality, between background detail and art quality.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 05, 2017 12:49 AM  

68. James Dixon October 04, 2017 12:36 PM
She's throwing a cigarette away,



ah, that's a large part of the problem.

until you said that, i never even noticed the cig above her cape. that ( and the smoke trail ) is a light object on a light back ground.

her gloved hand is light object on the dark back ground of her cape.

then the issue with the flat upper digit ( thumb?, i don't see how the hand could bend the other direction ) is highlighted by the lack of connection to the action just completed.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 05, 2017 12:54 AM  

160. James Dixon October 04, 2017 11:23 PM
There's no accounting for taste.



concur.

Phil has been doing comics since the early 80s, was winning Hugos as an amateur in 70s.

you might not like his heavily stylized work, but he knows what he's doing.

Blogger Shadowjoser October 05, 2017 12:59 AM  

Hey, love this, just wanted to say that what you have done has inspired me to move beyond what is in my mind and actually write down character descriptions and catch phrases that have been in my head for 15 years.
Thank you.
Working on the rest of it, reading everything you do and continue to do inspires me.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 05, 2017 1:12 AM  

We've moved up in the world, from Indonesian sex remedies to Based SAS training.

Anonymous Ahmad ibn Fadhlan October 05, 2017 2:02 AM  

@161... "There's no other webcomic that has that level of total quality, between background detail and art quality."

Allow me to introduce you to the comic 'Kill Six Billion Demons.' Example: https://killsixbilliondemons.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/throne.jpg - and it has improved from there. The story, background, and setting art are definitely comparable to Girl Genius. Perhaps better. I read both. They both impress me.

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot October 05, 2017 6:22 AM  

"... On the right is Janelle Jeanneret ..."

Ah, cute. Didn't notice it the first time.

Does this make her the alt-world grand-daughter of Le Corbusier? :-)

Anonymous Mister M October 05, 2017 6:46 AM  

I simply cannot believe that that version of Ms. Marvel is real.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 05, 2017 7:10 AM  

"I dunno what you mean on the faces"

I mean they're literally circular (or close to it) with large mouths and beady eyes. You can mostly tell them apart because of their distinctive hairstyles, and maybe the shape of their lips/teeth.

That being said, yes, the background work is excellent. I don't despise the character art of GG, I just don't really think it's very good when it comes to faces and heads in general.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 05, 2017 7:12 AM  

And don't get me wrong, GG would be faaaar from the only cartoon/manga where everyone has the same head but with different hair.

Blogger sapopular October 05, 2017 7:40 AM  

Hey vox, what you think about boku no hero academy?

Blogger tuberman October 05, 2017 7:43 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:tuberman wrote:I want to see the reaction of the age 9-16 kids for the medium and long term story on Al*Hero.

Last night my 14-year-old daughter brought over the x-men comic she got from the library. "X-Men '92" I think (it was copyright 2017).

She said "Dad, it's weird, they do everything they can to cover Wolverine's face with the hat, and look at this one, the hat is like 4" to the right of the top of his head. Don't they know how to draw?"

Then she saw I was looking at the Dynamique pages off of Freestartr.

"What's that, is that a real comic? What is it? Do you know anything about it? Can I read it? Where's the rest?" When I explained it was a kickstarter, the conversation changed somewhat. "Are you supporting, did you pledge? How much? What do you get for that? Oh, who's that!?!?!? (referring to Rebel) Is she gonna have her own comic? Are you getting this, you really need to get this Dad. Can I buy it? How much does it cost? Are they gonna sell it for real? Do you think they'll have t-shirts? How much is the pledge to get her shirt? Did you pledge that much? Can I pledge? SHE'S SO COOL!"

So, based on a sample of 1;

Marvel art currently is literally incompetent, and

14-year-old girls will kill to get Rebel t-shirts.


Mentors are not teachers or tutors (yuck). They intuitively are constantly on the lookout for fantastic material that will spark a young kid's fire to grow. As soon as I saw Rebel and Alt*Hero, I said to myself, "OMG, yes, yes...and more yes...do it!

Blogger Jed Evnull October 05, 2017 8:05 AM  

I wish the effort well, but it's not for me. But then, none of the modern comics are. I started with comics at the dawn of the Silver Age with DC artists such as Curt Swan,Wayne Boring and Joe Kubert. This stuff doesn't compare.

Blogger tuberman October 05, 2017 8:22 AM  

Jed Evnull wrote:I wish the effort well, but it's not for me. But then, none of the modern comics are. I started with comics at the dawn of the Silver Age with DC artists such as Curt Swan,Wayne Boring and Joe Kubert. This stuff doesn't compare.

Yes, that's the era that I read DC comics, excellent art, just okay stories, so the mediocrity in comic story telling is why I got more and more into SF novel reading.

So, what's you point, and why are you here? Just open-ended criticism is vacuous. Specific criticism is useful, but you....?

Blogger VD October 05, 2017 8:55 AM  

Hey vox, what you think about boku no hero academy?

I don't.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope October 05, 2017 10:28 AM  

Crick Watson scale, that's good right there. The world building is important, as the storyline has to hang together and also be similar enough to our own that fans can relate and also poke fun at contemporary SJW idiots.

But I'm confident that this comic isn't being created to make fun of SJWs. Because a strategic thinker will focus on the bigger long term picture, and not focus on the enemy du jour, or else these will quickly become dated and stale.

Seeing plausible villains again, without story lines that go beyond 2nd grade playground senses of right and wrong will be refreshing.

Art criticism. The vigilant scenes, the child is a little off somehow, although it doesn't interfere with the storyline, so not a big deal. Girl torso too long, legs too short, perhaps the body style is more of a boy. Arms on the thug hanging down as he's carried are too short. The storyline of that one promises to be very interesting.

Anonymous Just another commenter October 05, 2017 10:56 AM  

Looks like it's over $70k, now. Novel Achievement UNLOCKED!

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 05, 2017 11:19 AM  

@90 License Dynamique (and Rebel) to RealDoll if there's interest.

@152 Okay, that got a serious chuckle out of me.  Had I money to commission a character, that's what I'd go for.

Also, spam cleanup on aisle @165.

Blogger Raben Wulf October 05, 2017 2:15 PM  

@166
"Allow me to introduce you to the comic 'Kill Six Billion Demons"

What really stands out is his use of color, he gets the theory behind it. Just squint your eyes or blur any page, you can see a smart use of complimentary colors to create contrast and mood. The line art is nothing to write home about but, yeah really good use of color.

Anonymous Weaver October 05, 2017 5:07 PM  

Best of luck! I really enjoyed the manga Bakuman and the manga Naruto (unborn future generations are the ultimate "king" and some other good points made in manga) somewhat.

Most other manga aren't so interesting. One-Punch Man is pretty funny. I can't think of any other legitimately good manga. There have been some that are interesting, but I can't recall them.

Heroic Age was a fairly good anime, so far as anime go.

Code Geass was perverted and left-wing, but it had some marginally intelligent themes (eg. uniting the world against an enemy and choosing among past, present, and future-orientation). Also, strategy vs. tactics vs. combat abilities is somewhat interesting for manga.

You could mix in anything right-wing to be interesting. Manga usually aren't very deep. Anarcho-tyranny or a bad guy promising an impossible utopian dream if only people will entrust him with power or a police state arising in reaction to terrorism, which was intentionally instigated by politicians (eg. by importing likely terrorists and fighting unnecessary wars to create blowback).

An anti-war arc would be awesome. Ron Paul foreign policy is very interesting, for the US. War is part of life, but it needn't be for the US.

Anonymous Weaver October 05, 2017 5:13 PM  

Berserk has been somewhat interesting manga. It is partially anti-Christian and perverted, but it's nevertheless interesting at times.

The protagonist fights against impossible odds, and though I'm Christian I'm somewhat pro-nature. I dislike the secular modern world and am wary of certain impious technologies (eg. biotech). So, the manga reflects my values in these things somewhat.

-

Ghost in the Shell movie (2017) is also good if you haven't seen that manga/anime.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 05, 2017 9:11 PM  

@180. Weaver, you might want to check out "Akumetsu". Translation: Destroyer of Evil.

Anonymous Raker Tooth October 05, 2017 10:44 PM  

Would be interesting to drop off a copy of Alt-Hero at places where people wait, quietly slip one in at the dentist's office, or on top of the newspaper at the fast food place. Automotive paint stores take forever to mix your color. Maybe businesses that already are political outcasts could keep a copy around, like gun stores. The poster mentioned in the Darkstream would look good there on the wall.
And I'll make a semi-serious prediction: A Rebel line of women's fashion...modeled by the blonde with sunglasses in the Kidd Rock video.

Anonymous Blonde MOABombshells October 06, 2017 1:07 AM  

@183 I can neither confirm nor deny that that is me.

Anonymous Weaver October 06, 2017 4:21 PM  

Azure Amaranthine,

ty. I'll be sure to check out "Akumetsu".

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