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Thursday, October 05, 2017

The return of La Serenissima

Now that Catalonia is on the verge of independence, Lombardia and Venezia are next:
Italy facing its OWN Catalonia: Referendums in Lombardy and Venice could TOPPLE EU

This month the Lombardy region and the city of Venice will both vote on new powers of autonomy at referendums which are now taking on increasing levels of controversy. Previously seen as a low-scale vote on local powers, the referendums are now experiencing symbolic overtones following last Sunday’s Catalonian chaos.

Last weekend more than 800 people were injured by police as a referendum on independence for Catalonia was held - against the express wishes of leaders in Madrid and Brussels. And now Italy is facing similar chaos with two referendums set to be held on October 22, although in these instances the votes are state-approved and will not face violent opposition.
I'm pretty sure the Venetian referendum will pass. I'm less confident about the Lombardian vote, since there are some heavily socialist regions of the province, but it stands a reasonable chance of passing, especially given what we're seeing out of Spain. And unlike Catalonia, neither Venetians nor Lombardians are at all keen on the EU. It's time to let Garibaldi's Folly pass into history and bring back the great Italian city-states of the Renaissance.

Basta bugie, no UE! 

Media: Wait, don't you live in Lombardia?
VD: (whistles innocently)

Labels: ,

98 Comments:

Anonymous Patron October 05, 2017 9:42 AM  

Don't know much about the details of either referendum, but I wonder if the Italian model might not be the way to hobble these secessionist movements. Just keep giving the regions more and more autonomy, but keep the core functions (particularly defence & foreign policy, but some economic stuff too) in Rome. With any luck, you'll get to the point where most Venetians don't see the point of seceding, because most of what they want to do as an independent state they can do already.

The main spanner in the works would be the economy (see: the Euro, and the north/south divide), but I imagine the latter would be a non-issue if the north wasn't paying for the south out of taxes etc. It might still pay via more opaque means (eg monetary policy), but being opaque, it's less likely to be a cause celebre.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 05, 2017 9:43 AM  

@Kurgan

You are our resident Venetian, any thought?

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) October 05, 2017 9:47 AM  

Congrats to the Kurgan

Anonymous Taco Town October 05, 2017 9:53 AM  

What needs to happen is to cut southern Italy and Sicily loose.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass October 05, 2017 9:57 AM  

"Patron wrote:Don't know much about the details of either referendum, but I wonder if the Italian model might not be the way to hobble these secessionist movements. Just keep giving the regions more and more autonomy, but keep the core functions (particularly defence & foreign policy, but some economic stuff too) in Rome. With any luck, you'll get to the point where most Venetians don't see the point of seceding, because most of what they want to do as an independent state they can do already.

The main spanner in the works would be the economy (see: the Euro, and the north/south divide), but I imagine the latter would be a non-issue if the north wasn't paying for the south out of taxes etc. It might still pay via more opaque means (eg monetary policy), but being opaque, it's less likely to be a cause celebre.
"

Bingo to the first paragraph. The second paragraph I'm not familiar enough with Italy's internal politics to have a say.

Blogger Desdichado October 05, 2017 10:09 AM  

Taco Town wrote:What needs to happen is to cut southern Italy and Sicily loose.
Maybe if we recreate the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, they'll take back all of the descendants of the southern Italians who left in the diaspora immediately following the Risorgimiento.

L'Italia è fatta. Restano da fare gli italiani.

I guess that never really managed to happen all that well, did it? Spain had a much longer go at it, and they still apparently failed to create Spaniards—just Castilian imperialists who called themselves Spaniards, and then everybody else who lived in the artificial construct called Spain.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 05, 2017 10:19 AM  

Like it was supposed to be here ... then came Hitler's favorite POTUS Lincoln.

Blogger ZhukovG October 05, 2017 10:22 AM  

Economic prosperity can hold a multi-national country together. But remove that and things can fall apart quickly. Once the common people no longer see a good reason to remain united, they don't.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 05, 2017 10:27 AM  

A curse on the cotton kings and Lincoln.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 05, 2017 10:28 AM  

Is this is all just a pretense to get Psychosonik back together, where Vox gets to play the fife and walk with a limp sustained by a futbol injury?

City-states make more sense in an internetworked Europe, anyhow.

Anonymous Roundtine October 05, 2017 10:33 AM  

Italy won't make the mistake of Spain. There won't be violence. Instead there will be lots of shouting and insults.

Adios uglies!
Fine, leave! Nobody likes you anyway!
We are an international tourist destination!
You are garbage strewn canals that smell like sewage!
Fuck you! Your pasta sauce is garbage!
Ha! You don't even know how to make a good semolina you degenerate bastards!
Dammit now I'm hungry!
Do you want to have dinner?
Yes, let's.
Did you pick this wine? It tastes like piss!
Fool, I picked a bottle from your region!
Ah!!!!

Blogger Johnny October 05, 2017 10:35 AM  

Given the high debt loads I doubt Europe can remain stable if this separatist stuff gets underway. Next thing ya know the bond holders will start getting nervous, somebody misses a payment, and the credit markets tank.

The real reason for these large social entities is that big armies beat little armies and big countries exploit small ones. Thus the merits of being part of a large country. If Europe starts breaking up they will have a serious problem if subject to external aggression. But then I guess that is not the sort of thing they think about these days.

Blogger LES October 05, 2017 10:35 AM  

People are tribal and don't like being a minority ruled by a majority of another tribe. The black nation in the US resents the white majority. The latino nation in the US will someday declare their independence.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope October 05, 2017 10:35 AM  

I guess that being fluent in Italian is paying off. All those offhand remarks out on the soccer pitch are finally getting traction?

Most likely, you did your research and settled in a region that has great weather and the attitudes of the people toward government is more aligned with your own. I would concur. Switzerland is my favorite country, but the attitude of the German tribe toward obedience to the state is difficult for me to relate to.

But the cat is definitely slipping out of the bag in EU. Brexit, Catalonia, with Eastern Europe rising up against dictates to water down the native genes and bring in millions of criminals....

Anonymous Roundtine October 05, 2017 10:40 AM  

Most likely, you did your research and settled in a region that has great weather and the attitudes of the people toward government is more aligned with your own.

Or driving attitudes. I have not tried crossing a street in Northern Italy, but I did in Southern Italy, and the drivers accelerate from a few hundred yards out. A car slowly meandering down the street will suddenly rev like a forumla one race car the moment you step off the sidewalk.

Blogger LES October 05, 2017 10:43 AM  

Also, people don't like being a majority ruled by a minority.

Blogger Lazarus October 05, 2017 10:45 AM  

Patron wrote:but I wonder if the Italian model might not be the way to hobble these secessionist movements. Just keep giving the regions more and more autonomy, but keep the core functions

In other words, kick the can down the road. Catalonia has autonomy. Wants to secede, so it does not end the conflict, just puts the crisis off to another time. As politicians are short-term creatures, this is probably what will happen.

Anonymous peter October 05, 2017 10:50 AM  

All this independence talk .. whats the end game here ? you realize that historical what happens is (1) seed decent, (2) separation, independence, revolution (3) weakness, (5) invaders from east move in, eat up all small countries one by one, (6) USSR back in business as super power.

Just the same cycle over and over again...

Blogger rcocean October 05, 2017 10:56 AM  

How many peeps know that Sicily was conquered and run by Arab Muslims from 850-1050 AD? Meanwhile Northern Italy was ruled by the Hapsburgs and Napoleon. Two very different parts of the world. Someone told Joe Gargiolo that he "didn't look Italian" and Joe told them his family came from Northern Italy. "Turn left and go 150 miles and you're speaking German"

Blogger Chent October 05, 2017 11:03 AM  

Vox (and readers of this blog), you are being played.

Think a bit.

Why all European nationalist movements have been repressed by the powers that be, while Catalan nationalism has been given a lot of money and encouragement for the last 30 years?

Why all European nationalism are denounced by left-wing intellectuals while Catalan nationalism is praised by left-wing intellectuals?

Why all European nationalist movements are anti-globalist, while Catalan nationalism is globalist?

Why all European nationalist movements are anti-globalist, while Catalan nationalism is globalist?

Why all European nationalist movements are anti-immigration while Catalan nationalism is pro-immigration?

(See http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gzoyv6QfUBA/UGln38IoDSI/AAAAAAAAA3A/Z6eVt70-OGE/s1600/REPUBLICA%2BMUSULMANA%2BDE%2BCATALUNYA.jpg)

Why Catalan nationalism favors Muslim immigration instead of Christian immigration?

(see for example, Angel Colom, who created a Catalan government office in Morocco to import Muslims

"The Catalan people must go to the mosques" https://www.dolcacatalunya.com/2015/01/angel-colom-los-catalanes-han-de-ir-a-las-mezquitas-o-la-irresponsable-politica-nacionalista-de-inmigracion/)

You have been played. The only thing in common between European nationalism and Catalan nationalism is a word: "nationalism".

Anonymous BBGKB October 05, 2017 11:14 AM  

19, yes we know Catalonia is full of shitlib globalists, but they are messing up the plans for the bigger shitlib globalists.


OT:Who knew there would be consequences for decriminalizing shitting in the streets? 500+ Hep cases

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-hepatitis-san-diego-20171004-story.html

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd October 05, 2017 11:17 AM  

Chent wrote:You have been played. The only thing in common between European nationalism and Catalan nationalism is a word: "nationalism".

OK. They are ``playing'' us. Nevertheless, here we are, with a nominally nationalist movement in play. What is best for real nationalists?

Do we stand up and say ``nationalism is bad,'' or maybe ``only approved nationalism is good?'' Or do we say ``Any nationalism beats no nationalism?'' Which one is going to be better for real nationalist movements in the future?

Given that Catalan Nationalism is a cover for International Communism, so what? It's not my nation, not my circus, not my monkeys. I support nationalism, even if the nation is planning to shoot itself in the foot. People and nations have the right to be stupid, or they have no rights at all.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 05, 2017 11:19 AM  

Switzerland is my favorite country, but the attitude of the German tribe toward obedience to the state is difficult for me to relate to.

Funny you bring that up, considering that a third of East Germans and a quarter of Bavarians want to secede because of Merkel's folly.

It would be hilarious if East Germany broke away and joined the Visegrad bloc. Or if Bavaria seceded and was constantly double-teaming with Austria against the German rump state.

Blogger Bubba October 05, 2017 11:22 AM  

Doesn't splitting big EU countries into smaller provinces work out better for the EU?

As I remember, just a few years ago the EU was proposing a nine-province subdivision of England to make it easier to manage/control.

If the EU can split EVERY European country up into five little pieces, it could control them much easier than it can pre-existing (large) national entities such as Germany, France, Britain, etc.

Imagine France ceasing to exist as a major subdivision of the EU and being replaced by more granular subdivisions such as Burgundy, Brittany, Aquitaine, Ile de France, Normandy, etc.

Virtually all resistance to the EU globalist agenda would be crushed. The bureaucrats could do what they wished, and let the now endlessly squabbling European Parliament of 50+ spend their time making silly speeches.

Blogger The Kurgan October 05, 2017 11:22 AM  

Italians are the most disorganised capable people on the planet. They individually can achieve more than most and collectively they can screw almost anything up. If they can find a leader to lead them that has an incorruptible honour and a ruthless idealism, La Serenissima could return.
If so I may well become Doge soon.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 05, 2017 11:34 AM  

@19 Chent

You have been played. The only thing in common between European nationalism and Catalan nationalism is a word: "nationalism".


So? What?

@22
It would be hilarious if East Germany broke away and joined the Visegrad bloc.

Especially given that Sau Merkel's base for years was in Ossi areas. I still cannot help wondering what is in her STASI file that Soros surely has.

Or if Bavaria seceded and was constantly double-teaming with Austria against the German rump state.

That has possibilities. It would be a confederation / league / thing like the Wisegrad. In fact Bavaria could join Wisegrad and get access to a Baltic port that way. Wisegrad members would have access to Bavarian and Austrian markets.

The German Leopard tank is built by Krauss-Maffei, a Munich based corporation. Hmm.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 05, 2017 11:35 AM  

@24
If so I may well become Doge soon.

Will you let us come visit your palace?

Blogger Johnny October 05, 2017 11:43 AM  

For several hundred years any man who had an accommodating personality (willing to submit to discipline) and a decent body got drafted into the Roman Legions and was likely lost to the breeding pool back in Rome.

Perhaps that accounts for the current Italian temperament.

Blogger Johnny October 05, 2017 11:45 AM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:Bavaria could join Wisegrad

Damn good idea you got there.

Blogger Azimus October 05, 2017 11:51 AM  

Now the Italians - those guys are better even than the Spanish at brutally killing each other for almost no reason. Bringing back the city-states... whoa boy! For Whom the Bell Tolls has NOTHING on the Medici's/Borgia's/etc...

I don't have a horse in the Catalonian struggle for independence, but the complete breakup of Italy? That seems like a net negative for the people of the Italian peninsula (from the outside looking in).

Blogger Jonathon Davies October 05, 2017 12:00 PM  

Hilariously chief EU goon Verhofstadt claimed Brexit had made the EU stronger and member states more committed to union. Given German election results, the rise of Five Star in Italy, Catalonia and other separatist movements, and Poland and Hungary refusing migrants, he was hopelessly wrong as usual. Juncker is Nero fiddling while Brussels burns, literally on some days.

Blogger J.M. October 05, 2017 12:10 PM  

So Italy goes from a single basketcase country to a dozen or so little and completely helpless basketcase states...interesting.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 05, 2017 12:16 PM  

That has possibilities. It would be a confederation / league / thing like the Wisegrad. In fact Bavaria could join Wisegrad and get access to a Baltic port that way. Wisegrad members would have access to Bavarian and Austrian markets.

@Paradigm
There's also the Three Seas Initiative, which is like a larger Visegrad. Austria is a member of that already.

For several hundred years any man who had an accommodating personality (willing to submit to discipline) and a decent body got drafted into the Roman Legions and was likely lost to the breeding pool back in Rome.

Perhaps that accounts for the current Italian temperament.


@Johnny
Most Americans are far more familiar with Sicilians and Southern Italians than with Northern Italians. Italy is like a Germany (of the Bavaria/Austria kind) attached to a Mexico. Southern Italy was ruled by Spain for about as long as Mexico was.

Blogger ZhukovG October 05, 2017 12:20 PM  

@Chent & other Spanish Citizens: I realize that this situation with Spain and Catalonia is of great importance to you, and it should be. However those of us outside of Iberia really don't have much of a dog in this fight.

Speaking for myself, my country, the United States, has problems looming on its horizon that make the situation in Iberia look like a lover's quarrel. The United States is soon to go through the same thing that Spain suffered 200 years ago; loss of empire. This, along with other fun and exciting things, is likely to wreak death and destruction on my country of Old Testament, Biblical proportions.

So understand please, that I view these Spanish threads as primarily a pleasant diversion. And for entertainment the emotion charged postings by 'folks who care' has been a very good value. We are not being played, because we are not on the field; you are.

Spain is your country to save or lose. The rest of us have our own horrors approaching.

Blogger Harris October 05, 2017 12:22 PM  

Honestly, there have to be limits to the autonomy of minorities within nations, else nations will cease to exist. I am not smart enough to know where to draw the line (although an independent Texas sounds pretty good to me). But the reality is that allowing every nation to fracture into many pieces is not only historically unprecedented, but it is not a desirable condition for the world either.

I don't have a solution. But even I'm smart enough to figure out that while this may please extreme libertarians, it is unworkable in reality.

On the other hand, anything that brings the quick annihilation of the EU cannot be all bad...

Blogger VFM #7634 October 05, 2017 12:24 PM  

So Italy goes from a single basketcase country to a dozen or so little and completely helpless basketcase states...interesting.

@31 J.M.
Lombardy has 10 million people, like several European countries. Veneto has 5 million people, like most Scandinavian countries.

There's also the Friuli-Venezia Giulia and South Tyrol, which would be cut off from Italy if they went. Veneto could easily unite with the former and split the latter with Austria.

Blogger Desdichado October 05, 2017 12:31 PM  

Harris wrote:Honestly, there have to be limits to the autonomy of minorities within nations, else nations will cease to exist. I am not smart enough to know where to draw the line (although an independent Texas sounds pretty good to me). But the reality is that allowing every nation to fracture into many pieces is not only historically unprecedented, but it is not a desirable condition for the world either.

You're big problem is that you are seeing polities and confusing them with nations. Nobody's talking about fragmenting nations. What this is about is fragmenting multinational states INTO nation-states.

Blogger ZhukovG October 05, 2017 12:49 PM  

How bout an Austrian-Bavarian Anschluss? They're both, well what passes for catholic these days. Culturally they may be pretty compatible.

Anonymous Crew October 05, 2017 1:01 PM  

Drudge is saying "Europe Could See Rapture"

Oh wait. It actually says "Europe Could See Rupture" but for a lot of people in the EU, rapture is probably a better word:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-05/europe-could-see-another-brexit-like-rupture-beyond-spain

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 05, 2017 1:04 PM  

Gold

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 05, 2017 1:09 PM  

Which part of Italy produces the hottest Italian birds, such as Ms. Fagina. Alotta Fagina.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 05, 2017 1:11 PM  

Since these movements are the pendulum swinging back against globalism, the natural level will be regained. There will be a natural limit to the fracturing.

Anonymous Grayman October 05, 2017 1:31 PM  

"Europe Could See Rupture"

LOL, and then the race to see who can expel the muslim hordes to their neighboring nations the fastest begins!!!
They will build fences, but far to late, they will have locked themselves into a nation level "cage match" with the dusky hordes.

Anonymous Athor Pel October 05, 2017 1:33 PM  

"34. Blogger Harris October 05, 2017 12:22 PM
...
But the reality is that allowing every nation to fracture into many pieces is not only historically unprecedented, but it is not a desirable condition for the world either.
..."



Read more history.

Stop assuming the information you got in school is the truth.

Anonymous Grayman October 05, 2017 1:33 PM  



Nope, there will be a massive overshoot and then in time, things will settle and some of the fractured regions will coalesce, perhaps by force, perhaps by politics.

Anonymous Grayman October 05, 2017 1:35 PM  

There will be a natural limit to the fracturing.


Nope, there will be a massive overshoot and then in time, things will settle and some of the fractured regions will coalesce, perhaps by force, perhaps by politics.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 05, 2017 1:38 PM  

34. Harris October 05, 2017 12:22 PM
else nations will cease to exist.


what intrinsic Right do nations have to exist?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 05, 2017 1:41 PM  

Bob shut the fuck up.

Blogger Desdichado October 05, 2017 1:55 PM  

They don't have any such right, of course, but they will usually tend to resist non-existence. Hell, I bet even the Swedes start resisting soon. They just need to feel even more that their back is against the wall, and they are still able to live in a state of semi-denial now. That won't last forever.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 05, 2017 1:56 PM  

Bring back the Papal States! Get Leopard 2s for the Swiss Guard!

Anonymous Adam October 05, 2017 2:09 PM  

There's also the Friuli-Venezia Giulia and South Tyrol, which would be cut off from Italy if they went. Veneto could easily unite with the former and split the latter with Austria.

I lived in the Trentino region for 10 years. They may not want to secede due to their already privileged status as a semi-autonomous region. But the South Tyrol is a hotbed of quiet and seething desire to return to Austria. A very small revolution was fought up there on this issue in the 60s and early 70s. The Rome government crushed them but their sons would move very quickly if events transpired in that direction.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 05, 2017 2:28 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Since these movements are the pendulum swinging back against globalism, the natural level will be regained. There will be a natural limit to the fracturing.
The back-swing will be of similar magnitude to the initial swing. Which in this case, given how far the push for world government got, would mean autonomous neighborhoods and individual houses.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 05, 2017 2:33 PM  

47. Stg58/Animal Mother October 05, 2017 1:41 PM
Bob shut the fuck up.


hmmm. a powerful rebuttal indeed.



48. Desdichado October 05, 2017 1:55 PM
but they will usually tend to resist non-existence.



hah.

do you recognize, that your statement is every bit as applicable to Catalonia as it is to greater Spain?

Anonymous Eduardo October 05, 2017 2:37 PM  

@51

Saw what you did there... King Snidely...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 05, 2017 2:42 PM  

I am the King, not only of my own house, but of a much larger area of over 10 acres, and hold in protectorate the 40-acre tree lot to south of Snidelyland, and the 10 acres of vacant unused farmland to the north. I have made alliance as well with both King Ken of Deiseltopia and Lord LeRoy the Retired.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 05, 2017 2:44 PM  

Lord the King the Retired?

extra redundancy is more gooder.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 05, 2017 2:45 PM  

((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) wrote:Lord the King the Retired?
I blame his parents.

Anonymous Yann October 05, 2017 2:46 PM  

Why all European nationalist movements have been repressed by the powers that be, while Catalan nationalism has been given a lot of money and encouragement

Nope, it hasn't been lots of money and encouragement. Catalonia has money because they produce money. Indeed, it's Catalonia who has been giving money to Spain, not the opposite.

And in the Basque Country the Spanish police has been torturing people and closing newspapers for years. So much for "encouragement".

Why all European nationalism are denounced by left-wing intellectuals while Catalan nationalism is praised by left-wing intellectuals

It's not praised.

However, Puigdemont is an bloody skillful guy who brought the Spanish government to the point of trying to prevent the referendum, while beating Catalan citizens all accross Catalonia, under the cameras. Left-winged people NEED to have the high moral ground, and after the images from the referendum, they couldn't do anything else but support Catalonia to keep that high moral ground. Puigdemont manipulated them. As I said, the guy is bloody clever.

Why all European nationalist movements are anti-globalist, while Catalan nationalism is globalist

Because it's a secessionist movement. In whole country nationalist movement, like the Polish one, they usually try is to take back sovereignty. However, when you're trying to secede from a country, what you need is to be recognized by third countries, so you can stabilize your independence and make it permanent. You can see the same with Scotland, for example. A seceded nation needs to find its place in the international theater, so they need to be globalist, at least, until they're safe.

You're gonna see it the next decades. As the immigrant population grows, there's only two options: send them back or secede from the country. So there will be more secession movements in Europe.

Why all European nationalist movements are anti-immigration while Catalan nationalism is pro-immigration

Catalan movement is pro-non-Spanish or pro-non-Latino immigration (Latinos are similar to people from the south of Spain), because for years the risk for Catalonia (or Basque Country) was being engulfed by the Spanish culture. Arzalluz, the key figure in the Basque nationalism, said once "I'd rather have a black president who speaks Basque in the Basque Country than a Spanish one". It's a matter of priorities.

Basically Catalonia chose to have a 25% of Spanish immigrants and a 10% of Muslims ones instead of a 35% of Spanish immigrants, to avoid being Spanish overflood.

Blogger Lovekraft October 05, 2017 2:58 PM  

from Zerohedge:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-05/7-independence-movements-could-destroy-eu

Anonymous Yann October 05, 2017 3:19 PM  

from Zerohedge: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-05/7-independence-movements-could-destroy-eu

Good article, it has a translation mistake when getting information from sources.

When they say "ETA members have now joined a Franco-Spanish Basque political party called Sortu", it seems that the sentence was translated from Spanish. The right translation is "French-Spanish", not "Franco-Spanish". In Spanish, "franco" is a formal term for "french", similar to "anglo" for "english". The translator maybe thought it was referring to "Franco", the former dictator.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 05, 2017 3:32 PM  

Basically Catalonia chose to have a 25% of Spanish immigrants and a 10% of Muslims ones instead of a 35% of Spanish immigrants, to avoid being Spanish overflood.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Of course, perhaps they were naive about Muslims because Catalonia never had a long-term Muslim presence before. But nowadays, after we've had it demonstrated for the world to see that Islam is a toxic virus, that attitude is inexcusable.

Anonymous Eduardo October 05, 2017 3:37 PM  

Funny, in portuguese Franco-Spanish would be correct.

I think he just thought the shortened version for French was correct.

Blogger Desdichado October 05, 2017 3:40 PM  

Yann, quit while you're ahead. Franco- is entirely correct in English, actually.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 05, 2017 3:42 PM  

Yann wrote:In Spanish, "franco" is a formal term for "french", similar to "anglo" for "english".
It is in English as well. Nobody reading that in English would think of Francisco Franco.

Anonymous Eduardo October 05, 2017 3:48 PM  

Despite the obvious fact I forgot I was reading English XD, yeah, I agree, technically nobody would think of Franco the dictator.

I think it is pretty normal to use Franco-(other nationality) in these cases.

Anonymous Yann October 05, 2017 3:55 PM  

Yann, quit while you're ahead. Franco- is entirely correct in English, actually.

Another thing to know. Thanks.

OpenID oBHUG4I4r4nsmolLrOQXuzmZRGkOQCWOIEdx October 05, 2017 4:10 PM  

Well, it's probably pointless to fret. Hegel is in charge. As Martin van Creveld began predicting in the early 90s, the European model nation-state is disappearing. Since the U.S. is such a nation-state, our turn will come. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 05, 2017 4:41 PM  

Wait a minute... isn't Lombardy... landlocked? How is it going to import anything simply that way? Wouldn't it just be dependent on other sections of Italy and stuff for its existence?

OpenID oBHUG4I4r4nsmolLrOQXuzmZRGkOQCWOIEdx October 05, 2017 4:48 PM  

This is Sidehill Dodger. My posts have been coming through with what appears to be a randomly generated string as user name. I'm using Open ID, and don't know why this suddenly changed. I guess the next thing is to get yet another account.

Blogger Demonic Professor El October 05, 2017 5:07 PM  

Anything that hastens the EU's demise is good.

Catalonia's got issues with Muzzies and Commies? Won't last that long when they have to pay their own bills.

Northern Italy has spoken of separation for a while. Happy to see this happen - if it works, great. If it rattles the public to get out of the EU, good as well.

Then there's Austria (election is on October 15) too, which seems to be be separating itself from Merkel's regime in Germany.

Haven't heard anything on Brexit in a while - but hardly surprising the UK would renege on leaving the EU.

Interesting, interesting.

Anonymous Ages October 05, 2017 5:46 PM  

We are coming to the end of another superstate cycle. May America be not far behind.

Blogger J.M. October 05, 2017 5:57 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:So Italy goes from a single basketcase country to a dozen or so little and completely helpless basketcase states...interesting.

@31 J.M.

Lombardy has 10 million people, like several European countries. Veneto has 5 million people, like most Scandinavian countries.

There's also the Friuli-Venezia Giulia and South Tyrol, which would be cut off from Italy if they went. Veneto could easily unite with the former and split the latter with Austria.


My point was that they will still be a bunch of nobodys who are even easier to push around. While fortunately none (as far as I know of) of the independentist movements in Italy is Europhile, their individual economies are far weaker and worse, their populations are amongst the most aged of Europe, so unless their measures include the absolute destruction of the welfare state in all its forms, and pro-natalist policies they will be highly indebted and dependent states, relying upon international "aid" either U.S. China or other powers, for their financial and even their defense needs (Lombardy may have 7 million people but they are not Texas with a huge army and armed populace, in fact many states in the U.S. are far more capable of flying "solo" than most regions of Italy).

But I guess Italy will have to face disintegration if it stays in the EU and doesn't solve the economic mess.

Blogger Desdichado October 05, 2017 6:00 PM  

Actually Brexit has been in the news a lot lately. Theresa May it's likely to get the boot from the sound of things. Even the Tories are fed up with her.

Blogger J.M. October 05, 2017 6:25 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:Especially given that Sau Merkel's base for years was in Ossi areas. I still cannot help wondering what is in her STASI file that Soros surely has.



The greatest irony is that Merkel is an Ossy herself...

Anonymous jacopo October 05, 2017 6:56 PM  

If Italy is partitioned, the north should return the gold reserves expropriated from Naples.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 05, 2017 7:03 PM  

"If Italy is partitioned, the north should return the gold reserves expropriated from Naples."

The southern Italian version of "muh reparashunz"

Blogger wreckage October 05, 2017 7:14 PM  

Does the perfidy and malign influence of SO CALLED VOX DAY know no bounds?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable October 05, 2017 7:28 PM  

Does the perfidy and malign influence of SO CALLED VOX DAY know no bounds?

I think that needs to be Vox's name on all Castalia product going forward. All caps, just like that: "SO CALLED VOX DAY".

Anonymous Avalanche October 05, 2017 7:31 PM  

@12 "If Europe starts breaking up they will have a serious problem if subject to external aggression."

You mean, like, millions of africans and ME's swamping ALL the small city-states demanding jizhia?

Blogger weka October 05, 2017 7:42 PM  

Italians are the most disorganised capable people on the planet. They individually can achieve more than most and collectively they can screw almost anything up. If they can find a leader to lead them that has an incorruptible honour and a ruthless idealism, La Serenissima could return.
If so I may well become Doge soon.


You will know when the Lion of St Mark rules when the local eurocrats heads are again upon pikes.

May you be Doge, and ban all Halal products, making prosciutto great again.

Blogger marco moltisanti October 05, 2017 9:20 PM  

Lots of cuties all over italy, from the foothills of the Alps down to the toe of the boot and Sicily, judging from what I've seen on my travels.

Blogger Cecil Henry October 05, 2017 9:45 PM  

This is good news. I hope this socialist hell of Canada breaks up too. Let Ontario separate from the godless GTA Toronto

Blogger Lazarus October 05, 2017 10:51 PM  

Cecil Henry wrote:This is good news. I hope this socialist hell of Canada breaks up too. Let Ontario separate from the godless GTA Toronto

All that Quebec separatism would go away if Canada could let Toronto fulfill its destiny and join the USA country club. The Rest Of Canada has more in common with Quebec than Toronto.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope October 06, 2017 1:21 AM  

was pondering today the Canadian penchant for socialism. Is it because of the heavy French influence?

America was also founded by English, well, WASPs. Interesting branching from the family tree.

Anonymous DatS October 06, 2017 8:08 AM  

This is minor detail, but I believe in English the proper name of the region is Lombardy, not Lombardia.

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 2:59 PM  

rcocean wrote:How many peeps know that Sicily was conquered and run by Arab Muslims from 850-1050 AD? Meanwhile Northern Italy was ruled by the Hapsburgs and Napoleon.

the island was conquered by far more than arabs. this is basic shit, and your ignorance is telling considering you post on this blog. the arabs waged war and got the island around 950 and controlled it for 100 years. then the normans had it...then bourbons...then spanish empire...never mind the fact it was greek and roman for the previous thousands of years...

but keep glossing over the rest of it's history and go with the nigger tier "dey wuz like, a-rabs. for like, 100 years!"

it's like a fucking blip of time in the islands geologic history...

meanwhile, the south was the most prosperous area in italy and europe for hundreds of years. until that northern (((savoy dynasty))) got involved. but you knew that, right? right? of course you didn't, you fucking ignorant savage with little understanding of what it took to build an empire on that island.

it's like me calling you a nigger because you are from america. you're fucking stupid.

the hapsburgs had north italy for less than 100 years. do you really think those people are german? or were they all of the sudden french, because napoleon? he was on an italian island once, does that make him italian or something? nigger, please...

the ignorance on here is astounding.

are you one of the several unemployed tech idiots on here?

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:06 PM  

not surprised (((vox jew))) is living in someone else's country and pushing for (((venice merchant))) balkanization...rather typical

so the (((north))) robs the roman empire and south's ancient riches for themselves and then scurries off like rats...rather typical

nobody likes (((venetians))).

the italians should be pushing for expansion. not balkanization. fucking mestizo bald white dorks from white ass, mn sticking their shitbrains into things that isn't theirs...rather

(((teddy))) will be pushing for unitarian churches in italy soon.

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:12 PM  

so now "nationalism" means breaking up and balkanizing into "city-states"

fucking so not brilliant!

these pilpul infested jew word lies like your alt kike, alt west, alt right, alt reich, alt white, new right, nu right...

fucking pathetic yo

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:18 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Most Americans are far more familiar with Sicilians and Southern Italians than with Northern Italians. Italy is like a Germany (of the Bavaria/Austria kind) attached to a Mexico. Southern Italy was ruled by Spain for about as long as Mexico was.

fucking ignorance at it's finest. how old are you? tell me you are a public school kid from america, please. it's obvious. go watch your jew mafia movies where a jew pretends he's italian...you have a ridiculously poor grasp of the subject.

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:21 PM  

Roundtine wrote:I have not tried crossing a street in Northern Italy, but I did in Southern Italy, and the drivers accelerate from a few hundred yards out. A car slowly meandering down the street will suddenly rev like a forumla one race car the moment you step off the sidewalk.

they probably saw you are a nigger that posts on a jewish unemployed tech boomer blog and obviously want faggots like that out...be glad they didn't follow you home.

out out out out out out ...

(((ted))) pushing for italian balkanization might just have people knocking on his door.

fucking alt kike fag

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:27 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:I am the King, not only of my own house, but of a much larger area of over 10 acres, and hold in protectorate the 40-acre tree lot to south of Snidelyland, and the 10 acres of vacant unused farmland to the north. I have made alliance as well with both King Ken of Deiseltopia and Lord LeRoy the Retired.

but do you have a job yet? get off the internet and stop talking shit to men far greater and prosperous than you. take care of your family. it's no wonder you are such a angry jealous cocksucker...lord of the dirt tundra...jobless and posting on a jewish unemployed boomer tech blog...i can get you a job but you'd have to kiss my ring. maybe i'd let you shine my shoes, snidely...

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:33 PM  

jacopo wrote:If Italy is partitioned, the north should return the gold reserves expropriated from Naples.

holy shit, 74 posts into this shitty pseudo tryhard intellectual jewish unemployed boomer tech blogpost...and finally someone with a firm grasp of reality and history posts a gem. the (((north))) has no idea where it's supposed wealth came from...

ave forza italia bro...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 06, 2017 3:36 PM  

Kryst wrote:r were they all of the sudden french, because napoleon? he was on an italian island once, does that make him italian or something? nigger, please...


Napoleon was Italian. It's there in the name, for God's sake. "Neapolitan of good breeding"

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:42 PM  

marco moltisanti wrote:Lots of cuties all over italy, from the foothills of the Alps down to the toe of the boot and Sicily, judging from what I've seen on my travels.
indeed.

and the hottest gal of them all, saint sophia loren was from rome. smack dab in the center. but she naturally and culturally adheres to the south. what kind of italian eats fawking cornmeal and larps as a german? a jew led poser northern italian, that's who. i bet (((theodore))) loves cornmeal and thinks he is italian. he isn't from (((veneto))) but probably loves the idea of being a (((veneto merchant))).

and it's funny when all these beta shitskin fags like roosh and his band of shitskin jew followers try and talk shit about italy because they couldn't get laid. those types of people can't even pay italian girls to fuck them...

says a lot about the company (((theodore beale))) keeps.

he should blog about how he enticed a white girl to marry him with his father's money...roosh would love it...

roosh should write a book called "i couldn't bang italy because i am an ugly beta shitskin that italian girls laughed at"

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 06, 2017 3:46 PM  

@Kryst,

You obviously identify more as a Sicilian than as an American.

You have to go back.

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:48 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Napoleon was Italian.

holy shiet snide made a b00mer joke...
agreed...napoleon was an honorary ital...
he was born on corsica for god sakes...

Blogger Thucydides October 06, 2017 3:49 PM  

While city states may be small and resource limited, they have had a very good historical run. The ancient Greek city-states stood up against the Persian Empire, the Italian city-states were considered wold powers in their day (the Venetians had a real Empire stretching across the Adriatic and into the Eastern Mediterranean Sea) and modern city states like Hong Kong and Singapore were or have high standards of living and were or are major commercial centres in world trade.

So part of this needs to be put in context; people with the right social, cultural and economic foundations can achieve amazing things even in small numbers.

Anonymous Kryst October 06, 2017 3:52 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:You obviously identify more as a Sicilian than as an American.

You have to go back.


nah we kick the shit out of the sicilians...but it's all good we all love each other one big family.

ciao from my teal azzurri beach, bishhhh...bring me my vino and shine these shoes, please.

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