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Sunday, October 22, 2017

#VotaSI

Twin proto-independence referendums in Italy today:
ITALY is facing its own referendum crisis as two regions, Lombardy and Veneto, engage in a bid for more power from Rome, buoyed by the Catalonia independence campaign in Spain. The wealthy Italian regions account for at least 30 per cent of the country’s GDP and they will ask voters to take to the polls today to gain greater autonomy from Rome.

Analysts have likened the Italian referendum vote as being similar to that of Scotland’s independence vote from Britain, the UK's decision to leave the European Union, and Catalonia's quest for independence from Spain.

The votes were called by the two regional leaders, Roberto Maroni of Lombardy and Luca Zaia of Veneto. In Italy, the twin referendums are non-binding, but a resounding "yes" vote would give the presidents of the neighbouring regions more powers.
Forza la Lega Nord! And let's bring back La Serenissima while we're at it.

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39 Comments:

Blogger Markku October 22, 2017 8:06 AM  

Europe doesn't need a Federation - it needs MORE nation-states.

Blogger JACIII October 22, 2017 8:12 AM  


Markku wrote:Europe doesn't need a Federation - it needs MORE nation-states.

Yep. Those Federations are remarkably easy to enter into and bloody to leave.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums October 22, 2017 8:26 AM  

ronpaulhappeningdotjpeg

Anonymous Simplytimothy October 22, 2017 8:31 AM  

OT, but related...The Paris Statement w Roger Scruton cosigning, us a cultural call to arms.

https://thetrueeurope.eu/a-europe-we-can-believe-in/

Blogger Ezekiel October 22, 2017 8:57 AM  

Lega Nord was the inspiration behind the League of the South.

This is a very good thing.

Anonymous Kat October 22, 2017 9:49 AM  

It'd be better if LoS would kick out the swastika panty crew and ditch David Duke. Hunter Wallace doesn't inspire me either.

Blogger The Kurgan October 22, 2017 10:23 AM  

I was in Venezia for a year and now this.
Coincidence?
I think not.

Blogger MendoScot October 22, 2017 10:47 AM  

Good luck.

Scotland's Yes vote failed because it is now the rump of mass emigration due to decades of pandering leadership, culminating in Trout and Halibut.

Lombardy and Veneto, however, would be more like the Home Counties seceding after too many years of Corbyn.

Anonymous BBGKB October 22, 2017 11:18 AM  

I just saw a video about blacks protesting in Rome for more refusegee rights. In their homeland they can't even make buildings as hearty as Roman ruins are now.

RT- just showed a documentary on the Puerto Rican independence movement, from before the hurricane. So sad I was like "Viva viva viva".

Anonymous TheHiss October 22, 2017 12:36 PM  

The difference being that Scotland’s independence vote from Britain and the UK's decision to leave the European Union were both legal and binding.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass October 22, 2017 1:05 PM  

MOAR autonomy! Best of luck boys!

Blogger Doom October 22, 2017 2:00 PM  

Bahaha. Weren't they watching? Even if the people are sincere, their leaders will sell them out at the worst point in the negotiation cycle, producing a net loss, perhaps catastrophic one, to their independence. You GO girls! Hahahaha!

Blogger MendoScot October 22, 2017 3:29 PM  

@TheHiss

In theory...

In practice, Manfred Eigen had it right.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar October 22, 2017 3:41 PM  

The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire. Swarms of little Republics, Kingdoms, Principalties, can do nothing against China, the US. They'll be too busy battling each other to defend their petty interests.

A fragmented Europe, a swarm of 'nationalities', of 'essential folks' and little medieval republics, the republic of Catalonia, the Kingdom of Castille, the republic of Venice, Occitania, Brittany, Bavaria, Wales... The only way they could work is as provinces of some greater entity, a great coordinator, such as the EU. Outside of the EU, what would they do? Would each of one have to negotiate trade deals with... China, the USA? Good God.

The atomization of Europe is either the foundation of the United States of Europe, or the end of Europe as a geopolitical power and the submission of this myriad of territories to the interests of China and the US.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 3:52 PM  

Think of it as devolution in action.

I miss Pournelle.

Anonymous Leonidas October 22, 2017 3:53 PM  

@14
The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire.

Oh, really?

Blogger Danby October 22, 2017 4:20 PM  

Alvin von Diaspar wrote:The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire.
And that is why the Greek city-state ruled by the real Leonidas became part of the Persian Empire.

Blogger J.M. October 22, 2017 4:25 PM  

Danby wrote:Alvin von Diaspar wrote:The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire.

And that is why the Greek city-state ruled by the real Leonidas became part of the Persian Empire.


Yeah, because Greeks and their myriad of Kingdoms and city states beat the Romans. right? Please keep in mind that Rome was a single Republic when it cleaned the Greeks clocks, not even an Empire.

Anonymous Bernard October 22, 2017 4:38 PM  

@14 Except the EU is actively going against the interests of Europeans and doing more to destroy Europe than a conquering army would.

Blogger Lara October 22, 2017 5:59 PM  

Sempre molto divertente notare l'atteggiamento contraddittorio di media e politici italiani quando si parla di referendum... In Italia come in molti altri Paesi sono i giornalisti a decidere se un referendum è "giusto" o "sbagliato". Quando il referendum piace al regime, tutti i media ne parlano, quando invece va contro al governo, nessuno ne parla e se se ne parla, si dice che "non conta", "è inutile", è solo "una boutade elettorale", o che ha avuto un "disguido tecnico". ecc. Provare per credere. Basta mettere a confronto Il Giornale e Repubblica. Anche l'Italia è un Paese spaccato in due, tra la gente che non ne può pìù di immigrazione, povertà, crimine e di uno Stato kafkiano che invade ogni millimetro di vita personale e i vari sinistroidi e cattocomunisti, i professori impegnati, gli intellettuali, cantanti e attori e gli "useful idiot" Antifa di turno. A chi fa comodo questa divisione? Homeschooling è l'unico modo che abbiamo di salvare i nostri figli dall'indottrinamento statale
There is one artist in Italy who still remember what it means to be free. His name is Giuseppe Povia (https://www.facebook.com/Giuseppe.Povia/videos/10155581645559670/?hc_ref=ARTu7alDkt5yUNUHYI99neQMuMN-jpzh0vussoORBkuXND0iNYH9sFOZoVfCoZ_RS_0&fref=nf), a brave man who produces his own records in order to be free to say what he wants. His songs always challenge the mainstream narrative, and that is why he has been and still is quite censored and attacked and banned from playing his music on most TV shows and radio stations. Check his song "Immigrazia", for example. He has also challenged the mandatory vaccines hystera (in Italy we are now forced to immunize our children, 9 shots, otherwise you get fined, jailed or your children may be taken away), the LGBT narrative that gayness is innate but being straight is not, New World Order, the EU dictatorship, and so on. His commentary on FB is usually very frank, straightforward, entertaining and refreshing.
Thank you, Mr. Vox, for sharing your thoughts on this blog. I learned a lot from you, especially when it comes to educating my kids. Preparing my son to and my daughters for what's coming.
Lara - The Grateful Wife (https://www.facebook.com/Mom4Dads/

Blogger WynnLloyd October 22, 2017 6:11 PM  

An occupying Chinese army would be horrific.
Yet long term it would be less catastrophic than the current E.U.
Knowing the Han as well as I do (even some PRC officers who were former students), they would eject the refugees due to the headaches of paying for and managing them, while they would split the Europeans into as near a categorization system as possible. If you notice, their minorities don't live in China proper. China proper is 99% Chinese. The minorities have their own semi-autonomous regions, separate from the Han population. The exceptions are Xinjiang and Tibet, where Han are moved in to check separatists (through soft genocide in a manner similar to
Europe).
Still, it's my impression that the Han would prefer stability in Europe over all other concerns, and would have little concern for "diversity." The European nations would be better preserved in the long run, even if they were also subjected to mass atrocities. There would still be whites cohesive enough to throw them out once they experience decline. The EU is trying to wipe that possibility out forever.
TL:DR- EU= Greater threat to European Whites.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 6:26 PM  

@14 Alvin von Diaspar
The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire.

So what? The only "empire" damaging Europe is the EU.
Europe is being destroyed by its own elites policy of population replacement. The countries that are not going along, like Hungary, aren't part of any empire.

In Current Year what matters is being able to stiffarm the EU, and that's what Legio Nord might just be doing.

The atomization of Europe is either the foundation of the United States of Europe, or the end of Europe as a geopolitical power and the submission of this myriad of territories to the interests of China and the US.

What atomization of Europe? Peddle fear much?

Blogger GraceIronwood October 22, 2017 6:54 PM  

A return to the life of nations is hardly "atomisation".

On the contrary, it is "clarification".

Blogger xavier October 22, 2017 7:01 PM  

Vox
Just on Saturday, we had 2 extraordinary develoomwnts:
A Spanish minister threatened Basque country by openly stating that it had the exact same conditions as Catalunya and not to destabilize the Basque's stability by support Puigdemont.
Wow so now the Spanish govt is looking to create conditions to crush Basque self govt?
Second, the President of the EU Parkoment an Italian gave an interview where he openly states that Europe should fear the rise of small states?
Now why would that be? Hmmm can't think of any reasons.

xavier

Blogger J.M. October 22, 2017 7:10 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:@14 Alvin von Diaspar

The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire.

So what? The only "empire" damaging Europe is the EU.

Europe is being destroyed by its own elites policy of population replacement. The countries that are not going along, like Hungary, aren't part of any empire.

In Current Year what matters is being able to stiffarm the EU, and that's what Legio Nord might just be doing.

The atomization of Europe is either the foundation of the United States of Europe, or the end of Europe as a geopolitical power and the submission of this myriad of territories to the interests of China and the US.

What atomization of Europe? Peddle fear much?


What you see as a solution is just a mere consequence of the loss of sovereignty of the countries before the EU. The only thing you accomplish with atomization that can be deemed as good is to ensure that at least some parts of the whole will save themselves while the rest are left to rot. So instead of saving all the Italians, just save the ones in the North...if that.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 7:17 PM  

What you see as a solution is just a mere consequence of the loss of sovereignty of the countries before the EU

Your picture is too small. Zoom out.

Blogger J.M. October 22, 2017 7:38 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:What you see as a solution is just a mere consequence of the loss of sovereignty of the countries before the EU

Your picture is too small. Zoom out.


You are the one who should zoom out, not only when it comes to local or global politics but in the historic span. there is reason England achieved nothing until all Angles and Saxons were united under one throne and one ruler.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf October 22, 2017 7:57 PM  

Re: The truth is, an Empire can only be confronted by another Empire.
The 13 colonies would suggest not taking this as an axiomatic truth.
Also, I wouldn't worry about some distant future Chinese. Worry about what the EU is doing to itself right here and now. Worrying about China is like commenting on a bit of paint peeling off the hull .... think of the rust! Meanwhile the lower rail of the Titanic has briefly submerged into the icy Atlantic sea..... I mean, we need an order of priority here.

Blogger Danby October 22, 2017 8:11 PM  

J.M. wrote:Yeah, because Greeks and their myriad of Kingdoms and city states beat the Romans.
The original contention was that a collection of city-states can never stand up to an empire. This assertion is by a single example. Since there are many examples, I chose the one involving the poster's namesake.

i do not contend, and never have contended, that such a victory is inevitable. Merely that it is quite possible and there are many historical examples, including Greece, Italy, the Low Countries, the Hanseatic League, and yes, the American Revolution.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 8:23 PM  

@27
You are the one who should zoom out, not only when it comes to local or global politics but in the historic span. there is reason England achieved nothing until all Angles and Saxons were united under one throne and one ruler.

How's that working out for England in Current Year?

Blogger J.M. October 22, 2017 8:47 PM  

Danby wrote:J.M. wrote:Yeah, because Greeks and their myriad of Kingdoms and city states beat the Romans.

The original contention was that a collection of city-states can never stand up to an empire. This assertion is by a single example. Since there are many examples, I chose the one involving the poster's namesake.

i do not contend, and never have contended, that such a victory is inevitable. Merely that it is quite possible and there are many historical examples, including Greece, Italy, the Low Countries, the Hanseatic League, and yes, the American Revolution.


I understand your point. Mine is that while the EU is a disease, destruction of our countries and its devolution to its primary units should not be in the cards as a good way to deal with that monster and should that happen, we shouldn't fool ourselves but accept the consequences of that devolution (loss of power, prestige, economic prowess, political influence, in time loss of independence before more powerful political entities, etc., etc., etc.). For the record, from the examples you put before, Italian peoples were unified by Rome, Greeks never unified and it time their mountainous terrain didn't save them from a unified and determined foe, the Hanseatic League in time was beaten and the Low Countries was saved by the circumstances (England and France weakened and sabotaged Spain efforts to retain the lands, aided by the distance, almost insurmountable then, between them and Spain; moreover in time they became an empire of its own. The US is an example of the opposite of what you claim happening. Hadn't the thirteen colonies acted as one army but as multiple and hostile against one another armies, only a miracle would have prevented their defeat before England.

Blogger J.M. October 22, 2017 8:49 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:@27

You are the one who should zoom out, not only when it comes to local or global politics but in the historic span. there is reason England achieved nothing until all Angles and Saxons were united under one throne and one ruler.

How's that working out for England in Current Year?



England as well as Europe started its long road of self destruction once it abandoned Christianity (Somewhere in the 1800s). The same is happening in Europe, without Christianity, Europe is bound to devolve to its origins...

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 8:55 PM  

England as well as Europe started its long road of self destruction once it abandoned Christianity (Somewhere in the 1800s). The same is happening in Europe, without Christianity, Europe is bound to devolve to its origins..

Oh, so devolution in action?

Gee, if only someone had made that comment earlier.

Dude, "muh EMPIRE" is not an answer. It's not even an argument. It's nostalgia.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 8:57 PM  

@31 J.M.
Mine is that while the EU is a disease, destruction of our countries and its devolution to its primary units should not be in the cards as a good way to deal with that monster

Oh, well, someone alert the Europeans from Sau Merkel on down.

J.M. stands against devolution.

That oughta fix everything.

Blogger Danby October 22, 2017 9:09 PM  

@Jm,
The Romans were eventually defeated. As were Spain, Persia, Russia, France, the Soviets and the British Empire. No political arrangement is permanent, and the transition from one to another is usually catastrophic.

In speaking of Italy, I was referring to mediaeval Italy, a loose collection of city-states, some of them uncommonly powerful

Blogger J.M. October 22, 2017 9:54 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:@31 J.M.

Mine is that while the EU is a disease, destruction of our countries and its devolution to its primary units should not be in the cards as a good way to deal with that monster

Oh, well, someone alert the Europeans from Sau Merkel on down.



And still couldn't refute one iota. What's your point?

Danby wrote:The Romans were eventually defeated. As were Spain, Persia, Russia, France, the Soviets and the British Empire. No political arrangement is permanent, and the transition from one to another is usually catastrophic.



In speaking of Italy, I was referring to mediaeval Italy, a loose collection of city-states, some of them uncommonly powerful


I never argued that a political entity was eternal, normally political entities die when the founding stock either withered, is diluted, or lost whatever made it great, gave it strength and the will (culture, religion, etc.)to fight for this political reality whether its a tribe, a nation-state or an empire. Medieval examples are great but in those times rivers and mountains were real obstacles to a determined army and NO ONE in Europe had the political and military power to overwhelm a state or grow into an empire (the German Holy Empire was a fiction after Charlemagne and most "kings" were as powerful as their chess game counterparts, the real power rested on the feudal lords regardless what the maps said). The English were an exception, with their nation-state confined to their islands in the 1200s and the Spaniards would form theirs only at the end of the 15th century.

My point is that the destruction of the nation-states (Italy is barely an example of one) is not something to celebrate, but an ominous sign of things to come.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 10:15 PM  

J.M.

And still couldn't refute one iota.


There's nothing to refute. Your "muh EMPIRE!" nostalgia is irrelevant.

What's your point?

Globalism is failing. Devolution is happening.

My point is that the destruction of the nation-states (Italy is barely an example of one) is not something to celebrate, but an ominous sign of things to come.

So? What are you gonna do about it?

J.M. stands against devolution or something else?

Might want to brush up on the whole concept of "description" and "prescription" not being the same thing.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2017 11:11 PM  


http://i.memecaptain.com/gend_images/BtYzHw.jpg

Blogger J.M. October 23, 2017 8:17 AM  

@38

Meh, that's the best you got? I'm younger than you.

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