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Wednesday, October 04, 2017

When losing, lose harder

Having failed to learn from the failure of its initial show of force, Spain appears to be intent on losing the moral level of war and is doubling down.
Defense Tuesday ordered the sending of the Army to Catalonia with material and to provide logistical support to the Civil Guard and the National Police . 
This should end well and totally convince the Catalonians that they really, truly are better off as part of Spain. I doubt it escapes anyone's attention that the Spanish government has shown itself completely unwilling to use its Army against the marauding immigrants invading the country.

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74 Comments:

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 10:01 AM  

Wait, weren't they supposed to wait for shots fired from El Fuerte Sumtero?

Blogger ZhukovG October 04, 2017 10:16 AM  

Maybe they'll add some Italian and German 'peacekeepers'. Why stop at half measures.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents October 04, 2017 10:21 AM  

It's almost as though some in Madrid really want to split Catalonia off, and are even cooperating with the Barcelona elites to make it happen. But since MPAI, more likely this is just stupid leaders of serious stupid, doubling down on the stupid with secret stupid sauce on top.

I doubt it escapes anyone's attention that the Spanish government has shown itself completely unwilling to use its Army against the marauding immigrants invading the country.

Someone somewhere has a plan. It's just not in the official government structure in Madrid.

Blogger Johnny October 04, 2017 10:21 AM  

Soldiers are not commonly trained in police work. Unless it is a war zone they are commonly sent in as a show of force. And nothing we have seen so far suggests there is a need for it. It's like they are trying to create a military occupation proactively. I wonder what sort of dynamic produces the sort of government Spain now has? The citizens are the enemy?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 10:22 AM  

@2 Zhukov
Maybe they'll add some Italian and German 'peacekeepers'.

Barcelona obviously needs some Russian peacekeepers added to their mix. Collect the whole set! Fun for the whole family!

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 10:25 AM  

If elites in Madrid were cooperating with elites in Barcelona in a kind of shadow play to enable Barcelona to secede, would the actions of Madrid look any different? But since MPAI it is more likely that the very stupid leadership in Madrid is doubling down on the stupid with stupid sauce on top and MOAR stupid on the side.

I doubt it escapes anyone's attention that the Spanish government has shown itself completely unwilling to use its Army against the marauding immigrants invading the country.

Someone, somewhere has a long term plan for Spain.
Just not anyone we've seen so far in Madrid.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 04, 2017 10:29 AM  

Not using the Army against Muslim invaders is the most insane part, making the Spanish government, Rajoy and King Felipe the true traitors to Spain.

Anonymous CarpeOro October 04, 2017 10:37 AM  

Nothing says "we love you" like an occupation army.

Blogger Lazarus October 04, 2017 10:40 AM  

If it is true that 50% of Catalonia is NOT separatist, Spain has a crack at winning.

4G Handbook Chapter 9:

Fortunately for the state and its armed forces, Fourth Generation war at home is significantly easier to win than Fourth Generation war abroad. The strategic and moral factors that work so strongly against a state military overseas diminish or vanish. At home, the state military represents the home country, its own culture and its religion. The troops are often local young men. It knows the culture and language. It is not leaving, because it is already home. Its presence, if it acts as this handbook recommends, can bolster rather than undermine the state’s legitimacy.
However, while there is a great deal a state military can do to preserve its own state, there is one decisively important thing it cannot do. It cannot provide competent governance. The main organs of the state’s government and the civilians who head and run them must be competent. They must do what states exist to do, above all providing order: safety of persons and property. They must make things work: the police, the courts, the schools, the country’s infrastructure, and increasingly its economy as well (having accepted major economic responsibilities, the legitimacy of a state now depends in part on how well it manages the economy). Corruption cannot be so far-reaching as to destroy the state’s ability to do its duties, nor to the point where it is a public scandal. Whether a state is “democratic” or not matters little. Most people accept as best the government that governs best. A government that fails to govern effectively will cost the state legitimacy, regardless of whether it is democratic or autocratic.


The "governing effectively" part is now the challenge. The linked article says the King of Spain is to make an appearance. We shall see .

Anonymous Faceless October 04, 2017 10:40 AM  

At what point will this trigger a suspension of Spain from the EU?

The talk about that over the weekend was that the Civil Guard was not really the military. That pretense appears to be gone now.

Blogger Red Bane October 04, 2017 10:41 AM  

Voting is all well and good, but if you don't have the men and arms to back it up the result is inevitable. Spain will crush the Catalans and it will be business as usual 1 or 2 months from now. Its similar to when the Scots sought control over the north sea oil revenue in the 70s. England sent up a few warships and asked the Scots where their warships were at. That was the end of that.

Blogger Lazarus October 04, 2017 10:53 AM  

Faceless wrote:The talk about that over the weekend was that the Civil Guard was not really the military. That pretense appears to be gone now.

Its ok. Spain says the army is just there to do laundry and maid service and run the canteen.

Blogger Pavlosky Ufanov October 04, 2017 10:54 AM  

http://www.libertaddigital.com/opinion/cristina-losada/the-nationalists-are-the-problem-catalonia-83327/

Blogger Sillon Bono October 04, 2017 10:56 AM  

A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:If elites in Madrid were cooperating with elites in Barcelona in a kind of shadow play to enable Barcelona to secede, would the actions of Madrid look any different? But since MPAI it is more likely that the very stupid leadership in Madrid is doubling down on the stupid with stupid sauce on top and MOAR stupid on the side.

I doubt it escapes anyone's attention that the Spanish government has shown itself completely unwilling to use its Army against the marauding immigrants invading the country.

Someone, somewhere has a long term plan for Spain.

Just not anyone we've seen so far in Madrid.



Could it just remotely be the case that you do not understand what is going on in Catalonia.

No, of course not.

Blogger Nate73 October 04, 2017 10:57 AM  

Now that you mention it, the most devious way they could proceed and probably be effective would be to allow the vote to go forward and then deny its validity, or maybe stuff ballots or something. Directly using the army seems to be a mistake. Although the US had Waco and RR and that didn't spell the end of the govt.

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 04, 2017 10:59 AM  

No Lazarus. Spanish forces inside Catalonia are not "home." This section is referring to when, say the Army is sent into to a distressed rebel area for anti-looting, such as after a disaster or during an unwanted insurgency.

Spain already made the minority interest in secession seem like the only viable option, and now it is shooting abuelas with rubber bullets, following up with a police state.

Not one of these is remotely in the winner's handbook.

Even if Catalonia is only at 50%-50% now, you don't send in the Army to "protect" the loyalists. That will just further wedge the people.

Spain had a hand to play at the table, and out of fear of drawing aces and eights, they instead drew weapons on their "own" people. That is just about the very best way to assure your enemy that they are no longer considered your people.

Anonymous rien October 04, 2017 11:04 AM  

I have no clue about the gatestone institute, but I have read this in other places as well.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3393/catalonia-islamic-republic

A successful push for independence in the Spanish autonomous region of Catalonia would lead to the establishment of a country with the third-largest percentage of Muslims in Western Europe, just behind France and Belgium, and far ahead of Britain and Germany.

An independent Catalonia, with its capital in Barcelona, would also be home to the largest concentration of radical Islamists in Europe; it would emerge as ground-zero for Salafi-Jihadism on the continent and become one of the top incubators for Islamist terrorism in the West.

Anonymous Lars Porsena October 04, 2017 11:04 AM  

"Nothing says "we love you" like an occupation army."

When I was a little kid I was the neighbors house playing with a little Spanish girl, probably about 4 or 5 years old.

When I said it was time for me to leave and go home because my mom was making lunch, she stole my shoes and pulled a knife on me.

You guys don't know what you're messing with. It is not the UK.

Blogger Pavlosky Ufanov October 04, 2017 11:08 AM  

Johnny wrote:Soldiers are not commonly trained in police work. Unless it is a war zone they are commonly sent in as a show of force. And nothing we have seen so far suggests there is a need for it. It's like they are trying to create a military occupation proactively. I wonder what sort of dynamic produces the sort of government Spain now has? The citizens are the enemy?

You like the rest have a poor grasp of countries outside the anglosphere and in this specific case Spain.

If for a moment you would stop thinking that Spain is the same as the UK or France or Italy or Poland or the USA you could make sense of things.

Spain is a very de-centralized country it is divided in 17 semi-independent regions each with its own government and parliament who have almost as much autonomy as the states of the USA, they are for all effects and intents independent of each other, the only few things they can't do is make decisions negatively impacting other regions like deviating a river, anything to do with state taxes (they can create their own taxes), defense and foreign policy.

They can decide what do they teach in their schools, the secesionists 30 years ago started teaching to Catalonian kids some strange story of the Spaniards being invaders.

The funny thing is that not only no one has a fucking clue here how Spain works, no one has bothered to check that is what the secessionists want.

If Catalonia secedes there will be civil war in Spain.

Blogger Pavlosky Ufanov October 04, 2017 11:12 AM  

There's no such thing as Spaniards and Catalonians

Catalonians is the name of the Spaniards living in Catalonia.

Andalucians is the name of the Spaniards living in Andalusia

Asturians is the name of the Spaniards living in Asturias, etc.

Saying that catalonians aren't spaniards is like saying people from Dallas aren't Texans or people from Alabama not americans.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 11:14 AM  

@13 Silion Bono
Could it just remotely be the case that you do not understand what is going on in Catalonia.

Sure. Educate me. Not with slogans or propaganda, though.

Anonymous NadieEpera October 04, 2017 11:21 AM  

Madre de Dió, e'to guiri no he'enteran la Miza la mitá y no quié 'señá a comenmo lo moco

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 11:21 AM  

@19 Pavlosky Ufanov

Saying that catalonians aren't spaniards is like saying people from Dallas aren't Texans


A lot of the people in Dallas aren't Texans. They aren't even Americans, and they need to go back.

or people from Alabama not americans.

Paging Nate.

At least these Spanish / Catalonian threads draw a better class of confused, passionate people. Or shills. Hard to tell sometimes.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 11:23 AM  

VD, you should ask for more money from the Catalufians. They do not deserve you.

Blogger Mocheirge October 04, 2017 11:25 AM  

Pavlosky Ufanov wrote:There's no such thing as Spaniards and Catalonians

Catalonians (who do not exist) is the name of the Spaniards (who do not exist) living in Catalonia.


Spain has some pretty extreme existential problems.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 11:29 AM  

@23 NobodyExpects
VD, you should ask for more money from the Catalufians. They do not deserve you.

Still confused about the diff between descriptive and proscriptive?

"If you push your piano down the hill it will get broken"
not the same as
"You should totally push your piano down the hill, see what happens!"

2/10 butthurt bitterness troll, would not read again.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 11:36 AM  

There is no piano, and there is no hill.

That's the problem

Anonymous NadieEspera October 04, 2017 11:37 AM  

Y gracias por leerme, puto guiri.

Blogger Lazarus October 04, 2017 11:40 AM  

The Saker has some opposing views up on Catalonia.

Also, statements of the King of Spain:

http://thesaker.is/king-philip-vi-addresses-the-spanish-nation/

Blogger Galahad78 October 04, 2017 11:41 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Galahad78 October 04, 2017 11:42 AM  

The Government is sending logistical support to the police forces, no troops. Logistical support, because policemen have been forced to leave the hotels they were sleeping in until couple of days ago, under threats from oh-so-democratic separatist to hotel owners and directors.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 11:47 AM  

Galahad78 wrote:The Government is sending logistical support to the police forces, no troops. Logistical support, because policemen have been forced to leave the hotels they were sleeping in until couple of days ago, under threats from oh-so-democratic separatist to hotel owners and directors.

Well, let's see if that truthful, informative, up-to-date, cogent comment is seen as an attack to alpha-ness.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 11:54 AM  

@Galahad: just answered your question in the next-to-last blog entry in this "How to talk Spanish politics and make a fool of yourself" thread.

Anonymous krymneth October 04, 2017 11:56 AM  

It seems to me that Catalonian secession is likely to go poorly for them in the decadal time scale. If they don't use independence to evict their Muslim population, they are probably just signing up for making the reconquista that much easier by removing the complication of dealing with the Spanish government.

At the same time, Spain is royally cocking this up, too.

Thinking one side is being stupid doesn't mean I support the other side either. And the questions of self-determination rise above the merely local issues here.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 12:00 PM  

No wonder nobody takes Libertarians seriously.

Anonymous Anonymous October 04, 2017 12:01 PM  

Pavlosky Ufanov wrote:
Saying that catalonians aren't spaniards is like saying people from Dallas aren't Texans or people from Alabama not americans.


Catalans are Occitan people, that is, they are southern French.

So no, they aren't Spaniards. (This would be more obvious if the northern French didn't ethnically cleanse the southern French. Also, the bad experience north of the border is probably what's driving the Catalonian independence movement, they don't want the Spanish ethnically cleansing south of the border too.)

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 12:02 PM  

@26 Bitterness Butthurt Troll
There is no piano, and there is no hill.

The train is fine.

Anonymous NadieEspera October 04, 2017 12:03 PM  

Aportación de Catalufia a la cultura mundial: la abuela antifa.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLTHo-aW0AELo4i.jpg

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 12:04 PM  

@28 Lazarus
The Saker has some opposing views up on Catalonia.


Didn't that guy predict a big war between the US and Russian in Syria earlier in the year? Anyone keeping track of his accuracy?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 12:09 PM  

The Government is sending logistical support to the police forces, no troops.

"Logistical support" is a fuzzy term.

Logistical support, because policemen have been forced to leave the hotels they were sleeping in until couple of days ago, under threats from oh-so-democratic separatist to hotel owners and directors.

So? 4GW would totally predict that. Madrid even anticipated it a little, that's why ferries and cruise ships were moved to a couple of harbors as floating housing for Guardia Civil. Obviously.

Thickheaded or shills? Still can't tell.

Blogger ZhukovG October 04, 2017 12:10 PM  

@A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents: I believe Saker merely pointed out that it was and remains a dangerous potential flashpoint between the US and Russia. Though I believe his love of Russia causes him to overestimate Russian capabilities and underestimate the US's.

If you want some real 'Repent the End is Near' articles, read Paul Craig Roberts.

Anonymous Lars Porsena October 04, 2017 12:12 PM  

"Aportación de Catalufia a la cultura mundial: la abuela antifa."

This is the problem (one of them!) with antifas. They send abuelas to fight their battles. Non-ironically.

Ay dios mio, get your abuela off the battlefield.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 12:13 PM  

@40
I believe Saker merely pointed out that it was and remains a dangerous potential flashpoint between the US and Russia.

I'd have to go reread it, but you are probably right.

Though I believe his love of Russia causes him to overestimate Russian capabilities and underestimate the US's.

Saker has a lot of blind spots.

If you want some real 'Repent the End is Near' articles, read Paul Craig Roberts.

He's just taking his stuff from 2003 and editing it. No time for that.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 12:18 PM  

Lars Porsena wrote:"Aportación de Catalufia a la cultura mundial: la abuela antifa."

This is the problem (one of them!) with antifas. They send abuelas to fight their battles. Non-ironically.

Ay dios mio, get your abuela off the battlefield.


Yes, that is what police is doing in the right picture. Not their abuela, probably.

Anonymous BBGKB October 04, 2017 12:19 PM  

OT: the new narrative is that the pussy hat wearing TRUMP protester was a country music fan and went to country concerts.

He will be a TRUMP VOTING NRA member who put his brown moslem foreign girlfriend in a wheelchair by the end of the day.

Jenner only had to kill one woman to get labeled a Woman Driver by (((FAKE-NEWS))), but a pussy hat wearing shitlib that shot hundreds gets mislabeled.

Blogger ZhukovG October 04, 2017 12:19 PM  

@A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents: I like Paul Craig Roberts, but his constant assurances that I will die, along with the rest of humanity, in nuclear fire any day now have grown tiresome.

Blogger Orthodox October 04, 2017 12:21 PM  

If you were in charge of Spain, what would be your move?

I would have behaved exactly the same as the Spanish government. I want Catalonia to leave (success!), but I want a better negotiating position (need a little more threat of death and then offer carrots).

Blogger ZhukovG October 04, 2017 12:37 PM  

@Orthodox: I already posted in an earlier thread what I think the Spanish government should have done. Needless to say, it was nothing like what they have actually done.

Now, if I was the Caudillo(screw that Prime Minister crap) of Spain, things would be very different. Spain would not be part of the EU, we would have no Muslims and the Leftists would have last been seen practicing their high diving skills from helicopters over the Atlantic Ocean.

Under my enlightened rule Spain would reject democracy, Roman Catholicism would be the state religion and promoting Atheism would be punished as Treason.

Apparently this makes me a Libertarian.

Blogger Lazarus October 04, 2017 12:42 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:@28 Lazarus

The Saker has some opposing views up on Catalonia.



Didn't that guy predict a big war between the US and Russian in Syria earlier in the year? Anyone keeping track of his accuracy?


The opposing views are from other people.

Anonymous Gen. Kong October 04, 2017 1:22 PM  

The fake-Sapnish in Madrid are not the only ones.

Anonymous Yann October 04, 2017 1:25 PM  

A successful push for independence in the Spanish autonomous region of Catalonia would lead to the establishment of a country with the third-largest percentage of Muslims in Western Europe, just behind France and Belgium, and far ahead of Britain and Germany.

That's completely true. However, the problem will be there with or without independence.

Indeed, right now, any movement that could make any change must win Barcelona, then face Madrid, and then face Brussels. Any of them saying "no" and nothing will change. Just check how many problems are having Poland or Hungary to rise boundaries to Muslim immigrants, and they only deal with Brussels.

Does that mean that an independent Catalonia will get rid of Muslims? Who knows. Maybe Europe is doomed and our grandchildren will be under the Muslim rule. But if you want a chance against the winter which is coming, you need to get rid of supranational control and give as much control as possible to nations. And that means Catalonia getting independent from Spain, and that means Spain getting independent from Brussels.

The EU is building an European Army. The moment this army will be able to beat any national army, European countries will be regions and nothing more. There will be no more Brexits, because the guy who has the gun is the guy who makes the rules. Now it's Catalonia who is asking for independence from Spain. In a few years from now, it can be Spain (and other countries) the ones trying to get independent from Brussels, while Brussels suspend national governments. Because the moment the EU has biggest guns, they just can.

Karma a bloody bitch. Though this is no good news.

Anonymous Clay October 04, 2017 1:34 PM  

Orthodox wrote:If you were in charge of Spain, what would be your move?

I would have behaved exactly the same as the Spanish government. I want Catalonia to leave (success!), but I want a better negotiating position (need a little more threat of death and then offer carrots).


Too bad you weren't Abraham Lincoln when we needed you.

Blogger Sam Spade October 04, 2017 1:41 PM  

@33 "If they don't use independence to evict their Muslim population, they are probably just signing up for making the reconquista that much easier by removing the complication of dealing with the Spanish government."

They have the third larger muslim population in Europe due to their SJWs regional leaders. If they want to evict muslim population they should start by executing them.

Not that the cuckservative central government is doing anything to stop invasion though, but they are not openly promoving it.

Blogger Jonathon Davies October 04, 2017 1:45 PM  

EUarmy intervention soon. Tony Blair already lined up to mediate. For Spain, naturally...

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 04, 2017 3:05 PM  

Other regions in the world eyeing independence now

Scotland and Basque are old hat, I do not see either happening. New Caledonia doesn't matter, the Faeroes would maybe be better off federated with Iceland. Corsica would have a hard time on its own.

This caught my eye:
- Lombardy and Veneto, Italy -

These wealthy regions in northern Italy are to hold non-binding consultative referendums on October 22 to ask voters if they favour more autonomy from Rome.

Politicians in Lombardy and Veneto, which together account for nearly a third of Italy's economy, are fighting for a bigger share of tax income and, in some cases, for secession.


Isn't this the core of the Northern League?

Blogger ZhukovG October 04, 2017 3:27 PM  

@A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents: I understand there are rumblings in Bavaria as well.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales October 04, 2017 3:28 PM  

@22

Isn't Catalan a completely different language from Spanish?

Blogger buwaya October 04, 2017 3:44 PM  

Flanders may be on the list.
Belgium is an artificial state formed in the 19th century, with (formerly) two ethnicities, sort-of-Dutch Flemings and French-speaking Walloons. There has been quite a lot of Flemish separatism in recent years. There are a lot of third-world immigrants there of course, but many more it seems in the French parts.

Belgium breaking up would be more disruptive than Catalonia.

Anonymous NobodyExpects October 04, 2017 3:44 PM  

Basque

Blogger Azimus October 04, 2017 3:50 PM  

From article:
Defense Tuesday ordered the sending of the Army to Catalonia w


Wait, the Spanish Army is a thing?

Blogger Azimus October 04, 2017 3:54 PM  

From Wikipedia:
n 2001, when compulsory military service was still in effect, the army was about 135,000 troops (50,000 officers and 86,000 soldiers).


Wow that's a lot of chiefs and not a lot of indians. Present day US army is 4:1 enlisted/officer ratio.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 3:59 PM  


King Philip VI
We find ourselves at a critical juncture for our existence as a democracy.



a KING addresses his hereditary DEMOCRACY. is there really anything more to say after that?

i'm running out of keks here.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 04, 2017 4:03 PM  

41. Lars Porsena October 04, 2017 12:12 PM
Ay dios mio, get your abuela off the battlefield.




let's be fair, this is Antifa we're talking about.

more often than not, the abuela is probably the most physically capable person in the household.

Anonymous NadieEpera October 04, 2017 4:19 PM  

Zizeñó, catalufo de pu'a sepa.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLTOmBfXcAAAQDt.jpg

Blogger buwaya October 04, 2017 4:29 PM  

"Wow that's a lot of chiefs and not a lot of indians."

That's typical of a rank structure for a conscript army with a very small permanent active force. The Spanish Army was like that since the 19th century. Large cadre.

Its much smaller now and the breakdown of officers/enlisted is different.

Blogger buwaya October 04, 2017 4:31 PM  

"a KING addresses his hereditary DEMOCRACY."

Queen Elizabeth II does the same. Quite a lot too. The world is weird, and everyone is weird to someone else.

Blogger buwaya October 04, 2017 4:39 PM  

"Wait, the Spanish Army is a thing?"

Yes, it still exists but is rather small. About 8 active brigades, quite under-strength I understand, and four garrison commands. Besides the usual support organizations and odds and ends.

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 04, 2017 5:33 PM  

@ZhukovG

Neither the bavarians nor other germans have ever considered bavarians to be “real” germans. It’s entirely a marriage of convenience at this point. It will last as long as it lasts

Anonymous leff-ten-ant doritos October 04, 2017 5:48 PM  

for all the vitriol SJWs throw at "generic American" the royal family of Spain has had more crimes against humanity and exploitation done in its name that any other institution. They make the English imperialists look like saints.

Blogger buwaya October 04, 2017 5:55 PM  

"the royal family of Spain has had more crimes against humanity and exploitation done in its name that any other institution."

The Spanish, with justice, call this "la leyenda negra", the black legend, coming out of 16th-17th century British anti-Catholic propaganda. This persisted through the 20th century in service of the official anti-Catholic prejudice in Britain.
The US inherited a great deal of it from their British forebears.

Blogger André Sanchez October 04, 2017 9:08 PM  

I've heard that catalans are actually pro-refugee and would love to wreck their country at a faster rate than Spain. Is that true?

Blogger Lazarus October 04, 2017 10:08 PM  

André Sanchez wrote:I've heard that catalans are actually pro-refugee and would love to wreck their country at a faster rate than Spain. Is that true?

Absolutely

Anonymous Anonymous October 05, 2017 3:25 AM  

André Sanchez wrote:I've heard that catalans are actually pro-refugee and would love to wreck their country at a faster rate than Spain. Is that true?

Yes, because they prefer Catalan-speaking Muslims to Spanish-speaking Latin Americans. Their plan is to import Muslims to drive out the Latin American immigrants that are imported by the Spanish government.

If Catalonia ever becomes independent this could quickly change.

Anonymous Didas Kalos October 05, 2017 2:29 PM  

It is possible that Spain read the 2nd previous post on this blog.

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