ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2018 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Wednesday, November 01, 2017

Abortion and the Alt-Right

Ed Driscoll lies about the Alt-Right on Instapundit:
If this sounds like something the alt-right might tweet, as Elliot Kaufman wrote at NRO in August, “contrary to NARAL’s protestations, the leaders of the alt-right are actually pro-choice. They don’t oppose abortion because it’s good for racial minorities; they support abortion because it kills them. They hate black people and think America would be better if fewer of them were born. Though this is terrifying to contemplate, it should not be unfamiliar. In fact, the alt-right tends to praise abortion for the same reasons that Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, praised birth control: They help to rid the country of ‘undesirables.’”
As one Instapundit commenter asked Driscoll, which "leaders of the alt-right". I don't believe there are "leaders" in the first place, because a political philosophy is not a political party - who is the leader of liberalism or conservatism or progressivism? - but abortion is absolutely not something that the Alt-Right broadly supports.

It is absolutely true that Americans would be better off if fewer blacks were born, just as it would be better if blacks had never been enslaved or forcibly brought to the USA. But that doesn't mean that everyone who recognizes historical wrongs or unfortunate consequences hates black people. The fact that Tibet would be better off without the Chinese, Minneapolis would be better off without Somalis, Germany would be better off without Syrians does not require hatred of the Chinese, Somalis, and Syrians to recognize it.

This really isn't that hard. ALL political entities eventually fail. All multi-ethnic states eventually become ethnically homogeneous states, even if that ethnicity is a new one created by the genetic amalgation of the old ones. That is going to happen in the United States, and there are no shortage of signs that peaceful amalgamation through mass cross-breeding is not going to be the method utilized.

Read the link. The commenters there did an ace job of calling out Driscoll for his dishonesty and blowing out his argument. It's just another example of how the media finds the Fake Right to be useful in attempting to discredit the genuine Alternative Right.

Labels: ,

277 Comments:

1 – 200 of 277 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Muh Ethnic Agenda November 01, 2017 8:54 AM  

>>In a new study this month, the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that 89 percent of Jews say “abortion should be legal in all or most cases.” Compare that to 72 percent among Americans with no religious affiliation, and 63 percent among white mainline Protestants.

Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 9:05 AM  

From what I've seen, this is an issue that splits very precisely along religious lines. Alt-right atheist thought leaders and commenters, real or pretend*, take this view very regularly.

*Keeping in mind that Richard Spencer is still the de facto thought leader for guys like Driscoll.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 9:05 AM  

How's promoting the claim that Alt-Right people are the boogeyman working out for you, Eddie? Literally Hitler didn't stick, and with Halloween so close, it seemed timely to now claim Alt-Rightists are Jason Voorhees?

Blogger Sillon Bono November 01, 2017 9:07 AM  

Can't wait for (((they))) to try to take down one of these supposed leaders, and realize 5 mins later they haven't accomplished anything.

Anonymous johnc November 01, 2017 9:18 AM  

It really depends on what alt-right rooms one hangs out in. Over on voat there is a decidedly pro-abortion fervor, for exactly the reasons Driscoll states. And now Jared Taylor and Richard Spencer are promoting eugenics.

There's a lot of crazy people out there.

Blogger VD November 01, 2017 9:20 AM  

Alt-right atheist thought leaders and commenters, real or pretend*, take this view very regularly.

It's because they're atheists. That's what atheists do. It has nothing to do with them being Alt-Right.

Anonymous Jaime Fernley November 01, 2017 9:21 AM  

The fact that a wormy neocon cuck like Driscoll is allowed to post on Instapundit, tells you everything you need to know about Glen Reynolds. Most of Driscoll's posts are links to NRO (his home nest).

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 9:22 AM  

> Can't wait for (((they))) to try to take down one of these supposed leaders, and realize 5 mins later they haven't accomplished anything.

Why would they want to take down someone who is working for them, knowingly or not?

Blogger August November 01, 2017 9:25 AM  

Not even fair to the fake right. Oh, I am sure some swastika crazy actually believes that, but we had swastika crazies before anyone came up with the term alt-right.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer November 01, 2017 9:28 AM  

I don't view this as an attempt to slime the alt-right. I view it as misguided opportunism on his part. He knows that the progressives already think the alt-right are evil Nazi's. He is trying the old failed tactic of trying to convince black people that abortion is tied to racism. It doesn't matter what the truth is, black people are never going to trust Eddie over Maxine or Shelia Jackson Lee.

The fact that he is trying to use a lie to try to accomplish this task just undercuts his case with dialectic speakers while failing to move the identity politics based rhetoric speakers.

Anonymous Monkey Boy November 01, 2017 9:34 AM  

I have to admit that I've seen people in the Alt-Right make the argument that abortion is good for America because it works as a passive form of eugenics against black people. They then say that the Right should drop it opposition to abortion if they want to fight against the darkening of America.

I don't know how common this argument is thrown about but I've seen it brought up in internet conversations.

Blogger Anchorman November 01, 2017 9:34 AM  

The fact that a wormy neocon cuck like Driscoll is allowed to post on Instapundit, tells you everything you need to know about Glen Reynolds.

Huh?

Glenn is (for the most part) pro choice and allows strong pro-life bloggers.

He wants to foster discussion. He doesn't ban-hammer and let's his guest bloggers post interesting things.

I think they post far too much pjmedia, but there's a back-scratching that goes on to maintain the site.

Anonymous Simplytimothy November 01, 2017 9:43 AM  

"The fact that a wormy neocon cuck like Driscoll is allowed to post on Instapundit, tells you everything you need to know about Glen Reynolds...."


It's the Wild West and I like it and I appreciate and admire him for the work he does.

Anonymous Reality Check November 01, 2017 9:56 AM  

For multiple reasons, I'm against abortion for my tribe (white Americans).

Yet other (often hostile) tribes insist on aborting themselves. This ends up aligned with my interests. And since I have zero influence over them anyway, I sit silently as they murder their own.

Does this make me "pro-Abortion"?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 01, 2017 10:08 AM  

Who in their right minds wants to be aborted? Maxine Waters wished her mom could have had an abortion, so there you go.

The pro-life side being dominated by women seeking to virtue signal above all and the pro-choice side is well just plain crazy, so how attractive is either side to a young white man, not very so very little thought is put into it. So abortion ranks about 35th on a 50 issue poll with any viable alt-right leaning white man.

Blogger U PC BRO? November 01, 2017 10:18 AM  

I've seen Lana Lokteff state this very thing (she wants blacks to get as many abortions as possible). I don't know if you'd consider her a "leader" of the alt-right. And she's not Christian but into some neo-paganism or some such shit.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 10:20 AM  

The fact that a wormy neocon cuck like Driscoll is allowed to post on Instapundit, tells you everything you need to know about Glen Reynolds. Most of Driscoll's posts are links to NRO (his home nest).

That's retarded. That's like criticizing Vox for allowing commenters who disagree with him to post here.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 10:23 AM  

It's because they're atheists. That's what atheists do. It has nothing to do with them being Alt-Right.

I think eventually the atheists and the alt right will go their separate ways. I don't think the two are compatible over the long term.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 10:23 AM  

Greg Johnson most definitely supports abortion for minorities: http://disq.us/p/17921qn

It's a vexed question. If demographic movements are an existential matter, is a group threatened with annihilation in their own homeland entitled to apply such counter-measures?

Blogger Shimshon November 01, 2017 10:23 AM  

"This really isn't that hard."

Obviously it is for most people. MPAI.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 10:26 AM  

I don't know how common this argument is thrown about but I've seen it brought up in internet conversations.

It crops up here every so often

Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 10:33 AM  

Josh (the sexiest thing here) wrote:It's because they're atheists. That's what atheists do. It has nothing to do with them being Alt-Right.

I think eventually the atheists and the alt right will go their separate ways. I don't think the two are compatible over the long term.


Part of the issue right now is that the pro-abortion voices are really noisy. Vox is my only example at this point of someone who call himself alt-right and falls solidly against it. There's probably another somewhere, but not that I've seen.

But that's just a symptom of the issue.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 10:34 AM  

I would say Driscoll is broadly right, and Vox is broadly wrong.

The alt-right's origins lie with Paul Gottfried (a jew) and Spencer, who is a Nietzschean. TRS came later, and their core constituency was ex-liberals (Mike Enoch comes from liberal New York). Daily Stormer promote a cultural Christianity, while Counter-Currents trends more toward Paganism and capital T traditionalism.

A recent thread on twitter discussing Christian participation within the alt-right put it at around 30%. If we exclude NRx, Vox is probably the only major node who is solidly aligned wiht Christianity.

MPC takes Christianity seriously (including the atheists there), but there's increasing divergence between MPC and the alt-right as a reductive racial materialism has become increasingly prevalent, in addition to the hijinks of Spencer and Co.

Blogger Matthew November 01, 2017 10:35 AM  

Any atheist who doesn't hate babies (as a symbol of goodness and innocence) eventually stops posing as an atheist.

Blogger Purge187 November 01, 2017 10:35 AM  

"In fact, the alt-right tends to praise abortion for the same reasons that Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, praised birth control: They help to rid the country of ‘undesirables.’”

So he's at least allowing that one of the Left's most cherished folk heroes was a racist, and that not all racists are cis White males by default? Well, that's something, I guess.

Blogger Matthew November 01, 2017 10:37 AM  

Lemur wrote:A recent thread on twitter discussing Christian participation within the alt-right put it at around 30%. If we exclude NRx, Vox is probably the only major node who is solidly aligned wiht Christianity.



But how much of the audience of the "major nodes" is made up of Christians who are only tolerating the atheism, while shaking their heads?

MPC is a good example of this.

Anonymous Faceless November 01, 2017 10:39 AM  

@16

Your leader is a woman no one has heard of?

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 10:40 AM  

@22

Doesn't Vox have some peculiar ideas about the trinity and God as an evolving entity?

OpenID paworldandtimes November 01, 2017 10:43 AM  

The alt-right's origins lie with Paul Gottfried (a jew) and Spencer, who is a Nietzschean

They come from Pat Buchanan's moral nationalism and Camille Paglia's amoral sex realism. The former has roots in Birchers, continental Romanticism, and ultimately the Bible. The latter in de Sade and Greco-Roman heritage.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 10:45 AM  

The alt-right's origins lie with Paul Gottfried (a jew) and Spencer, who is a Nietzschean. TRS came later, and their core constituency was ex-liberals (Mike Enoch comes from liberal New York). Daily Stormer promote a cultural Christianity, while Counter-Currents trends more toward Paganism and capital T traditionalism.

With the exception of Gottfried, no one else on this list is on the Right. They're fake right.

Blogger U PC BRO? November 01, 2017 10:48 AM  

@16 I never said she was my leader. Run along now.

Blogger Brad Matthews November 01, 2017 10:49 AM  

There is a satire video of the white guy in the truck chasing the minority kids with planned parenthood dropped over the plates every time the truck is shown.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 10:50 AM  

Well i haven't seen abortion discussed in detail at MPC.

It's not really a topic I have read up on comprehensively either to make a reasoned judgement call.

From what I have gathered from Christian alt-right accounts on twitter, they believe initially their voices were totally drowned out but now they're around 30% of the movement, as I said.

This makes sense to me. The category of the Protestant/evangelical religious right is no longer a mobilizing force in America. Its the more resistant strains of Catholicism that now comprise the main Christian oriented element on the far right. However, white conservative Catholics draw from a much smaller demographic base.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 10:52 AM  

Spencer and Gottfried coined the term, so its to this 'alt right' that driscoll is referring. The reality is Vox hopped on the bandwagon when he saw it was a thing.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:00 AM  

@29

I don't know where you got that. There is a discontinuity between paleocons, whose movement had largely petered during the Obama years. This is why Gottfried called for a new 'alternative right.'

There's certainly a strong influence from certain Paleocons, primarily Sam Francis and his articulation of anarcho-tyranny, the revolution of mass and quantity, and the relationship between managerialism and liberalism. However, the alt-right was initially and at its peak a broad based network of competing ideological and social strands. There was no paleocon orthodoxy.

I don't know where you get Paglia from. She's read but less people know about her than Spengler, whose system of thinking prefigures hers.

Blogger JACIII November 01, 2017 11:01 AM  

Josh (the sexiest thing here) wrote:

With the exception of Gottfried, no one else on this list is on the Right. They're fake right.


But Spencer created the alt-right! Or was it waaaaaAnglin? Anyways, we're just weeks away from Nazis being cool.

Blogger wreckage November 01, 2017 11:05 AM  

The thing is, the mainstream right is currently vehemently anti-nationalist, ie., imperialist, as is the mainstream left. Thus, alt-right, meaning entirely outside the mainstream centre-to-centre-right, is basically everyone with a brain. As soon as you narrow the alt-right down to two neo-nazis nobody gives a damn about, you're simply engaging in re-badging of a failed socialist movement that was itself imperialist anyhow.

Anonymous Raw Cringe November 01, 2017 11:06 AM  

this is what angers me the most about the LARPagans. you can practically hear the cheeto dust settling on their keyboards while you're trying to explain why no, it is not a valid moral or political analysis to argue "abortion disproportionately kills blacks, therefore it is good / should remain legal".

Blogger VFM #7634 November 01, 2017 11:06 AM  

>>In a new study this month, the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that 89 percent of Jews say “abortion should be legal in all or most cases.” Compare that to 72 percent among Americans with no religious affiliation, and 63 percent among white mainline Protestants.

@1 Muh Ethnic Agenda
According to the Talmud, a baby doesn't become an actual person until it takes its first breath.

IOW, our abortion policy is based on the Talmud.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 01, 2017 11:09 AM  

@23 lemur
The alt-right's origins lie with Paul Gottfried (a jew) and Spencer,

Dude, all I wanted to do was read good science fiction and play decent enough games.

Blogger wreckage November 01, 2017 11:10 AM  

Liberalism's origin lies with the French Revolution, ergo, the entirety of modern liberal democracy isn't, because they don't speak French.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:11 AM  

the problem with this discussion is the frame. Vox, who think he defines every bandwagon he jumps on, is distorting a fair point made by Driscoll who has accurately identified a majoritarian sentiment of the alt-right. These are just the facts.

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 11:12 AM  

> Doesn't Vox have some peculiar ideas about the trinity and God as an evolving entity?

Regarding the Trinity, only if you consider published church doctrine as of 325 AD "peculiar".

> A recent thread on twitter discussing Christian participation within the alt-right put it at around 30%.

Seriously, Twitter? That's your source for an alt-right statistic? Do you have any idea how brain dead that sounds?

Blogger tz November 01, 2017 11:12 AM  

Generally alt-white atheists can be pro-choice. The libertarian - philosophical atheists follow a path more like Molyneux and Cantwell toward pro-life (add l4l.org Doris Gordon who debated the pro-abortion Rothbard).

Or to put it differently, race may be necessary, but not sufficient. Even Western Civilization - Christendom involved melding philosophical and scientific methods. When tribe in Africa find Christ, they stay african and express their faith in their own way. African masses (with the novus ordo) look nothing like European masses.

But the Cucks are still stupid even when they are restless.

They almost never talk about the ABORTION HOLOCAUST - the horror of body parts for sale, the women butchered because of poor conditions, that a million babies are slaughtered each year because they are "inconvenient".

What does it take for the Cuckservatives to address the abortion issue? Oh, try to make the case that the alt-right is pro-abortion! And don't make it about the universal monstrous evil, make it about eugenics and race.

Abortion? It's not evil because it's intrinsically evil and murder. It's only evil when it is racist or sexist, though not ableist as we want to kill all down's syndrome babies, and we don't have a test for gay/trans yet. But they don't really want to end or even talk about Abortion as Abortion.

This shows the total disingenuousness of the Cuckservatives and Never Trump and the rest and explains Trump.

Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 11:14 AM  

"Liberalism's origin lies with the French Revolution, ergo, the entirety of modern liberal democracy isn't, because they don't speak French."

All televisions not produced by English-speakers aren't REAL televisions.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:15 AM  

@41 that's the NRx 1789 canard. There's a degree of truth to it, but there are deeper historical and structural precedents.

Blogger Desdichado November 01, 2017 11:16 AM  

U PC BRO? wrote:@16 I never said she was my leader. Run along now.
Maybe you missed the context in which bringing her up would have been relevant, then.

Lemur wrote:Spencer and Gottfried coined the term, so its to this 'alt right' that driscoll is referring. The reality is Vox hopped on the bandwagon when he saw it was a thing.

Alt-right is too obvious of a term for you to claim that somebody coining it first means that they get to decide what it is. I was here when Vox coined it independently, and it made no reference to what you are referring to.

Which is why although this taxonomical discussion is always tedious, it always comes up; because there's always a few who hear the term alt-right, and it comes loaded with baggage already for them, rather than simply meaning an alternative to the fail harder cowards who have called themselves the Right for the last few decades.

To make a long story short, your contextual history probably means less than nothing to anyone who posts here, who didn't come out of that scene, and don't care about it.

I'd wager that the majority who call themselves alt-right 'round here could fairly call themselves paleocons with tactics designed to win. The fact that we're traveling in the same lane as the people you're referring to is just because the freeways merged serendipitously for a passing moment in time.

Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 11:17 AM  

"Seriously, Twitter? That's your source for an alt-right statistic? Do you have any idea how brain dead that sounds?"

The other part of this is who's doing the defining. Actually, no, that's the main part. Vox is looking at a taxonomic evaluation while everyone else is just going by who calls himself what. If you go with the latter... honestly, Driscoll is probably correct on the whole.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:17 AM  

@43

Wow you got me bro. Guess you won that battle of wits.

Since the alt-right doesn't take a census, we have to go off personal impressions. I follow a pretty wide range of accounts and it gels with my experience.

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 11:17 AM  

> According to the Talmud, a baby doesn't become an actual person until it takes its first breath.

Legally, that's been the case in most systems throughout history, for good reason.

> ...a fair point made by Driscoll who has accurately identified a majoritarian sentiment of the alt-right.

The Nazi-LARPer's aren't a major sentiment of anything. It's an open question whether those who claim they are are leftists in disguise or merely useful idiots.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf November 01, 2017 11:18 AM  

Perhaps I'm biased, but I believe a Nation State based on an admix of Northern people from specific areas of the West and East may be a desirable place to live. We can say Mars as a hypothetical geopolitical domain. This has somewhat occurred naturally in Central Russia. I think the selection pressures are complementary and thus there is a lot of overlapping dispositions, particularly around foresight. But there's also some health reasons I believe an admix would alleviate. The IQs are within a SD as well. Lastly aspects of GreccoBuddhism and Christianity need not be so dissimilar.

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 11:21 AM  

> I follow a pretty wide range of accounts and it gels with my experience.

How do you take into account that Twitter has been banning anyone to the right of Mao for any excuse they can find ever since the election?

Anonymous DissidentRight November 01, 2017 11:25 AM  

@19 It's a vexed question. If demographic movements are an existential matter, is a group threatened with annihilation in their own homeland entitled to apply such counter-measures? 

Only if they’re 1) Fake Right and 2) retarded on multiple levels.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:25 AM  

Spencer came up with the Alternative Right website, after leaving The American Conservative long before Vox hopped on the train. All the main memes, the media attention, and the ideological evolution developed in the series of blogs and websites that sprung from Spencer's original. Counter-currents, MPC, Vox Day blogspot dot com, and /pol/ existed prior to this, and were brought into contact with the alt-right though the energy in generated.

Vox's sperg categories are largely irrelevant to what the vast majority of people consider the 'alternative right.'

Blogger Meng Greenleaf November 01, 2017 11:26 AM  

Regarding abortion, Vox is absolutely correct. I'd only add that an Ethical argument could be mounted regarding the morality of harming a human who is not conscious. Sort of like attacking a sleeping person or taking advantage of someone drugged. The lack of conscious is not grounds for legally causing harm as in a period of time the agent will have consciousness. The amount of time required (a period of sleep, time for a drug to catabolize or even develop mentally) is inconsequential. Or so I would think.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 11:27 AM  

49. Lemur November 01, 2017 11:17 AM
Since the alt-right doesn't take a census, we have to go off personal impressions. I follow a pretty wide range of accounts and it gels with my experience.



appealing to your own authority is no way to win arguments with anyone else, son.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:30 AM  

People make new accounts and retweet each other. Simple.

The 14/88 lot were not always present. TRS moved through many stages from paleo-libertarian to its rather lamentable decline to basic bitch white nationalism.

Blogger Lemur November 01, 2017 11:31 AM  

you can believe whatever the fuck you want bob. If you want to be a sperg, go ahead. It's welcomed here.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 01, 2017 11:32 AM  

@Lemur

Taxonomy trolling is really boring because No True Scotsman is boring. You can do better.

Blogger tz November 01, 2017 11:34 AM  

I need to expand my @44.

I'm trying to remember any strong condemnation of Abortion from NRO or any other Cuckservative outlet.

I have evidence the alt-right is nominally and practically pro-life (ending immigration and the Democrat's power if nothing else). I can find a number of pro-life at least from the Christian perspective articles, and an occasional pro-abort article from the alt-right.

I can't remember the last time any Cuckservative or NeverTrump has written an article strongly condemning abortion, calling it a holocaut, pointing out the horrors. Where is even one to merely stop public funding of Planned Parenthood?

Cuckservatism also projects. Cuckservatism is pro-abortion. They may call it a tragedy, unfortunate, or regrettable, but they won't call for it to be illegal or restricted to any useful degree and usually oppose specific laws designed to restrict it like Ron Paul's act defining life and personhood to begin at conception.

When states enact restrictions, there is usually a foggy article on federalism, or something to do with medicine, or other things which just try to confuse the issue. No cheers when it is passed, no horrors or talks about the imperial judiciary when it is overturned by a judge - strangely not unlike Obergefell (gay marriage).

Anonymous solutions November 01, 2017 11:37 AM  

Vox has to find some Chuck D music, hang out with Jessee Lee Peterson, do whatever he has to do to get his groove back vis-a-vis Africans, jettison any nonsense from the BKGB type creeps, and then the Alt right can really get into high gear

Anonymous BBGKB November 01, 2017 11:39 AM  

While I am tempted to support abortion because of all the blacks affected by it, it is likely the worst would just kill each other off like they do in Chicago. Hispanics are not getting abortions unless they are under 12yo for health reasons. Abortion means white women can slut it up, & then be catreer ladies after they are too old to have kids.

Blogger Dirk Manly November 01, 2017 11:39 AM  

"IOW, our abortion policy is based on the Talmud."

... like practically ALL of our laws passed since around 1965 or so.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 11:40 AM  

you remember that no-longer-George-Washington-church?

here's their version of the Apostle's Creed, starts at 55 seconds in:

"I believe in God, our Mother Bear, source of all being"

http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/church-out-with-george-washington-in-with-mother-god/#RL7F5BZlEV23qEH6.99

Anonymous Battlefrog November 01, 2017 11:43 AM  

Tara McCarthy made the "abortion is needed for the non-white population" argument a couple weeks ago on twitter. It is a strain that is definitely there, and not exclusive to "fake right".

Although to be fair, she's out in left field with all kinds of crap. Vegan, anti-hunting. Kind of a strange girl.

Blogger wreckage November 01, 2017 11:44 AM  

There's the heart of it. The guys who have been in a position to attempt or to materially support ANY change, but who have universally and consistently failed to do so, are saying "look! Over there! That guy is pro-abortion! For BLACK KIDS!" It's plain ol' social jockeying, worse yet, the implicit argument directed to the pro-abortionists is "I'm only against it when it's racist".

Pull the statement apart for the social cues and you get to the deceptive heart of it.

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 11:44 AM  

> Vox's sperg categories are largely irrelevant to what the vast majority of people consider the 'alternative right.'

Do you have any concept of why we say MPAI?

> People make new accounts and retweet each other. Simple.

What percentage do? What percentage simply leave and never come back?
What percentage of more intelligent folks never bother in the first place?

Simply put, you're using a biased sample from which it's impossible to draw meaningful conclusions.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 11:45 AM  

58. Lemur November 01, 2017 11:31 AM
If you want to be a sperg, go ahead.



you appealing to your own authority makes me a sperg.

well, yes, obviously.

because you are still appealing to your own authority. given that you are the final arbiter of all "acceptable facts", clearly disagreement with you indicates that anyone who dares to question your hypothesis is a loon.

it's not like i was expecting you to learn any new tricks, much less observe that there's a Real World outside your delusion.

Blogger Desdichado November 01, 2017 11:47 AM  

Lemur wrote:Spencer came up with the Alternative Right website, after leaving The American Conservative long before Vox hopped on the train. All the main memes, the media attention, and the ideological evolution developed in the series of blogs and websites that sprung from Spencer's original. Counter-currents, MPC, Vox Day blogspot dot com, and /pol/ existed prior to this, and were brought into contact with the alt-right though the energy in generated.

Vox's sperg categories are largely irrelevant to what the vast majority of people consider the 'alternative right.'

The fact that you are attempting to shame commenters on one site with "you're not popular enough to count" and yet call yourself part of the Right is... interesting.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 01, 2017 11:49 AM  

Abortion? It's not evil because it's intrinsically evil and murder. It's only evil when it is racist or sexist

Well, I think basementhomebrewer is right, this is Driscoll trying to make the old "Leftists are the real racists" argument by using a leftist litmus test to show they're killing Blacks by the bushel-effing-basket-full. In theory it should be an awesome argument. Drive a wedge between Blacks and liberals, make liberals conflicted about two of their incompatible beliefs...

In practice? Ha. In practice, it just proves anyone making it is out of touch with reality. Most Blacks don't care, and if being conflicted about things caused Liberals problems, Liberals wouldn't vanished decades ago.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 01, 2017 11:59 AM  

lemur is an apt name for its rhetoric

Blogger Dirk Manly November 01, 2017 12:05 PM  

OT... Hollywood panicking about sexual shenanigans becoming public

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/shitty-media-men-list-accused-sexual-harassers-is-spreading-panic-1053468

Anonymous malcolm November 01, 2017 12:08 PM  

I thought it would be good anti-abortion rhetoric to make a series of memes highlighting the amount of black abortions performed by planned parenthood [according to this website: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D 40% off all abortions are black].

Stuff like "we salute planned parenthood for controlling the black population" with a picture of the germans saluting at a rally in nazi germany.

-----------
people who are anti abortion are anti abortion anyway, and the people who are pro abortion will now have to defend their racism.

Anonymous johnc November 01, 2017 12:11 PM  

@27 Your leader is a woman no one has heard of?

This sort of comment is telling. Lana Lokteff and her husband are quite popular voices of the Alt-Right. They've run Red Ice since the first Bush term. For one to say that he is a part of the Alt-Right but hasn't heard of Lana is like saying he is a diehard baseball fan but has never heard of the Marlins. At some point, being sufficiently exposed to baseball is going to bring knowledge about the Marlins' existence.

To the point about Lana, a lot of the members of the alt-right or identitarian movements who come from Northern Europe tend to be into paganism and race idolatry and the idea that Christianity is actually a big, foreign Jew plot to destroy the white race. It's similar to the way the Japanese emperors treated the first Christian missionaries. Southern Europeans seem to be less inclined to this idea.

I think many here don't realize that the "Alt-Right" outside of this blog is actually very different. I was first exposed to the "Alt-Right" here, so I was a little surprised when I branched out to the larger sphere.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 12:18 PM  

I'm trying to remember any strong condemnation of Abortion from NRO or any other Cuckservative outlet.

Google is hard.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/452359/20-week-abortion-ban-senate-pass

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 01, 2017 12:18 PM  

Better to kill the freaks now, than have them bullied, tortured, raped, murdered, etc. Later.

I'm always reminded of this virtue-signalling attention-whore "christian" bitch who gave birth to an abominable monstrosity and shoved it into the face of the world like a pervert shoving rancid dog vomit.

The worst part was the bitch having control over her disfigured daughter's mechanical voicebox. Taking it out when she got "too mouthy".

People who support allowing the birth and survival of monstrosities in my opinion are just as emotionally invested in the concept as progtards are when a magic Negro smiles at them and says "right on". The leg tingles and background chorus within their minds just as pernicious.

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 12:20 PM  

> They've run Red Ice since the first Bush term.

And how long do you suppose Vox has been running Vox Popoli? How many people who hang out at Red Ice know about Vox?

The alt-right is a large group composed of numerous subgroups. About the only thing they all have in common is opposition to the left. So why do you suppose that Driscoll and the MSM insist that the only real alt-right is a bunch of leftist Nazi-LARP'ers and the like?

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 12:25 PM  

For one to say that he is a part of the Alt-Right but hasn't heard of Lana is like saying he is a diehard baseball fan but has never heard of the Marlins.

I had never heard of her before you mentioned her.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener November 01, 2017 12:27 PM  

Some elements of the alt right are definitely pro-choice. There are undoubtedly many people who are reproducing and shouldn't be, and the most effective way to address that is through the elimination of subsidies of all kinds for those people having more children. But ironically many of the same people calling themselves Alt Right and pro-choice are also pro-socialism, provided it is implemented in an ethnonationalist context.

Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 12:30 PM  

"But ironically many of the same people calling themselves Alt Right and pro-choice are also pro-socialism, provided it is implemented in an ethnonationalist context."

This is a huge crux. Those people are also morons, since the destructive effects of socialism on the family are the most consistent facet of its implementation.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 12:43 PM  

But ironically many of the same people calling themselves Alt Right and pro-choice are also pro-socialism, provided it is implemented in an ethnonationalist context.

Leftists gonna leftist

Anonymous JAG November 01, 2017 12:46 PM  

Driscoll accuses of of being pro baby murder when a large portion of the Alt*Right are Christian. He could not be more wrong if he tried. This comes not long after Prager lies.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 12:46 PM  

"People who support allowing the birth and survival of monstrosities in my opinion are just as emotionally invested"

It has precisely nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with easily recognizable and enforceable delineations.

To someone out there, YOU are a hideous monstrosity, because you don't quite match up to whatever their standard of beauty is.

Anonymous CarpeOro November 01, 2017 12:48 PM  

So, question here. Does PJMedia stand for Pajama Boy Media? Because then I would understand where they are coming from.

Blogger Demonic Professor El November 01, 2017 12:53 PM  

I only ever see it in the context of true medical necessity, which is pretty rare overall.

Other than that - Ed Driscoll huh? Does anyone take him or his source (NRO) seriously anymore? Especially after Kevin Williamson's "Midwesterners Should Die" rant a couple years ago?

OR: Ed Driscoll got castigated at a cocktail party so now must signal his virtue to show he's not a BadEvilMan.

Next Up from Ed: Is Toxic Masculinity Ruining Your Marriage? Socialism Can Help Your Sex Life!

Blogger daddynichol November 01, 2017 12:55 PM  

"40% off all abortions are black."

Margret Sanger would be proud.

Anonymous JAG November 01, 2017 12:55 PM  

((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) wrote:you remember that no-longer-George-Washington-church?

here's their version of the Apostle's Creed, starts at 55 seconds in:

"I believe in God, our Mother Bear, source of all being"



Converging a church, destroying a piece of American history, and outright heresy is so much fun for those of the left hand path.

Blogger Demonic Professor El November 01, 2017 12:58 PM  

@70 Jack Amok

True - in theory it seems like a good idea.

But neither group will abandon their team no matter how awful it is to them.

Blogger DEPLORABLILITY November 01, 2017 1:01 PM  

When we talk about Christians, are we talking about possessors or professors?

Blogger Nick S November 01, 2017 1:02 PM  

I don't know if your're aware, but Michael J. Knowles has also made the same category error in a video short for PragerU (What is the Alt-Right?, in which he mentions you (Vox Day) by name as a leader of the Alt-Right and purports to have taken a "deep dive" into the Alt-Right community.

After watching it, it is reasonbly clear he doesn't know anything about it and is just virtue signaling.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass November 01, 2017 1:16 PM  

I'm against abortion under any circumstance, alt-Right, and Driscoll is an idiot. The former makes me an outlier in my family.

End of line.

U PC BRO? wrote:I've seen Lana Lokteff state this very thing (she wants blacks to get as many abortions as possible). I don't know if you'd consider her a "leader" of the alt-right. And she's not Christian but into some neo-paganism or some such shit.

She's an idiot.

Battlefrog wrote:Tara McCarthy made the "abortion is needed for the non-white population" argument a couple weeks ago on twitter. It is a strain that is definitely there, and not exclusive to "fake right".

Although to be fair, she's out in left field with all kinds of crap. Vegan, anti-hunting. Kind of a strange girl.


She's an atheist. She's said as much before.

Nick S wrote:I don't know if your're aware, but Michael J. Knowles has also made the same category error in a video short for PragerU (What is the Alt-Right?, in which he mentions you (Vox Day) by name as a leader of the Alt-Right and purports to have taken a "deep dive" into the Alt-Right community.

After watching it, it is reasonbly clear he doesn't know anything about it and is just virtue signaling.


Yep.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 1:19 PM  

83. Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 12:46 PM
To someone out there, YOU are a hideous monstrosity, because you don't quite match up to whatever their standard of beauty is.



take, for instance, all of the post election commenting by minorities about how "White People" need to be done away with ... because they dared to vote for Donald Trump.

everyone to the Right of Trotsky is now a hideous monster.

cause, you know, Bourgeois.

Blogger VD November 01, 2017 1:27 PM  

Spencer and Gottfried coined the term, so its to this 'alt right' that driscoll is referring. The reality is Vox hopped on the bandwagon when he saw it was a thing.

That's ridiculous. The Alternative Right long predates Spencer and Gottfried. It goes back to the John Birch Society.

The fact that you "coined a term", or in the case of Spencer "coined a nickname" doesn't mean a damn thing. Spencer is entirely irrelevant now. He's a Fake Right joke, a disorganized butterfly with zero integrity, and will disappear as soon as he ceases to be useful to the media in his New David Duke capacity.

He has nothing of any substance to say, no plan, no program, and no philosophy. I don't think he's controlled opposition simply because I would assume a controlled opposition would be more competent.

Blogger VD November 01, 2017 1:29 PM  

Doesn't Vox have some peculiar ideas about the trinity and God as an evolving entity?

No. My views are more traditionally Christian than most Christians who consider themselves to be traditionalist. I profess the Nicene Creed, they profess the Niceno-Constantinapolitan Creed.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 1:32 PM  

The fact that you "coined a term", or in the case of Spencer "coined a nickname" doesn't mean a damn thing.

Example: Vox is not an omniderigencist

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 01, 2017 1:34 PM  

@90
video short for PragerU (What is the Alt-Right?,

PragerU is cuckservativeU. Ward Cleaver is their idea of a "stud". George Will would fit right in.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 01, 2017 1:35 PM  

@70 Jack Amok

Most Blacks don't care
---

Bingo. If the cuck really want's to care about this, then his wife should go adopt a bunch of black kids. There is precedence.

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 01, 2017 1:37 PM  

Azure Amaranthine.

And yet you've got an emotional and personal retort directed at me. Attempting to shame me, that doesn't work.

https://youtu.be/NlsFDQbdTB8

My two favorite comments.

"I feel so bad for her, but holy fuck imagine waking up in the middle of the night and seeing her at the foot of the bed!"

"or worst, rolling over and she says "daddy, give me a kiss!"

These are normal human reactions and pretending to be offended by it is disingenuous. I feel pity for the deformed, I don't feel any pity for those that would use them as a virtue-signal. All too often, that is what ends up happening to these poor wretches.

Anonymous The Cuckservative November 01, 2017 1:49 PM  

All we need to do is pass the right laws and Negros won't abort themselves.

Because Negros follow laws, you see.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 01, 2017 1:59 PM  

@73 malcolm

With memes, just do it and put it out there.
It will either catch on or quickly be forgotten.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener November 01, 2017 2:04 PM  

@99 If the outcome is going to be the same whatever the laws are, why not allow yourself to win the moral victory of opposing abortion?

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 01, 2017 2:13 PM  

It's rather amusing watching the same gang who took the votes and money of clueless Christians for the last 4.5 decades while surrendering at every opportunity suddenly take up the cause as 'urgent' (now that the left has safely won the battle over the issue). Churchians and cucks - wormtongues every one. BTW, the blessed Mexicans and other alleged Catholics being imported all support abortion far more than the alt-right ranks and file. Dindus, Aztecs and Asians all vote for pro-abortion globalists by margins of at least 2 to 1 - often greater.

Anonymous Nike Missile November 01, 2017 2:22 PM  

In a new study this month, the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that 89 percent of Jews say “abortion should be legal in all or most cases.” Compare that to 72 percent among Americans with no religious affiliation, and 63 percent among white mainline Protestants.

Yet when it comes to choosing Israel First vs. Stopping Abortion, the churchian chooses loyalty the "Chosen People" every time.

So what are we even talking about?

Blogger Desdichado November 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

Gen. Kong wrote:It's rather amusing watching the same gang who took the votes and money of clueless Christians for the last 4.5 decades while surrendering at every opportunity suddenly take up the cause as 'urgent' (now that the left has safely won the battle over the issue). Churchians and cucks - wormtongues every one. BTW, the blessed Mexicans and other alleged Catholics being imported all support abortion far more than the alt-right ranks and file. Dindus, Aztecs and Asians all vote for pro-abortion globalists by margins of at least 2 to 1 - often greater.
There's this guy who calls himself Anonymous Conservative who might have a model that explains that apparent disparity...

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 01, 2017 2:47 PM  

Reality Check wrote:I'm against abortion for my tribe (white Americans).
I'm for abortion for enemy tribes without reservation.  I'm for abortion for my tribe when it strengthens my tribe (Down syndrome, other severe birth defects, formation of an intact family for the child is unlikely or impossible, family cannot handle another child causing harm to previous children, miscegenation).

@15  I knew someone with spina bifida who would just as soon have been spared all the surgeries and other pain required just to keep her alive.  When you are taking it straight from the person involved, it is something you cannot brush off.

Anonymous Mike November 01, 2017 3:14 PM  

I'm for abortion for enemy tribes without reservation. I'm for abortion for my tribe when it strengthens my tribe (Down syndrome, other severe birth defects, formation of an intact family for the child is unlikely or impossible, family cannot handle another child causing harm to previous children, miscegenation).

This is literally Satanic.

I knew someone with spina bifida who would just as soon have been spared all the surgeries and other pain required just to keep her alive.

You Alt-Retards are big talkers when it comes to murdering the handicapped. #FakeRight

Blogger Desdichado November 01, 2017 3:16 PM  

The only exception that I could possibly entertain for abortion is if the pregnancy will literally kill the mother. Nothing else.

Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 3:18 PM  

"You Alt-Retards are big talkers when it comes to murdering the handicapped. #FakeRight"

Funny, isn't it, that they ALWAYS end up wanting mass murder of "undesirable"? Every. Single. Time.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 3:20 PM  

@98. Takin' A Look, "Attempting to shame me, that doesn't work."

This is you projecting your own thought processes, motivations and conclusions onto me. You're wrong. I know nothing about how you look.

On the contrary, I was attempting to enlighten you as to how your own rhetorical argument could easily be used against you yourself by someone who just happens to hate your face.

"I feel pity for the deformed"

And yet you wish to murder them.

"I don't feel any pity for those that would use them as a virtue-signal."

Your prior post was an example of you yourself virtue signaling that you would rather kill a human being than permit them to suffer physical or emotional pain. That's not your prerogative, it's God's. A person is not an animal that you can euthanize simply because you cannot deal with it or because you think you are being merciful.

Anonymous Mike November 01, 2017 3:22 PM  

Funny, isn't it, that they ALWAYS end up wanting mass murder of "undesirable"? Every. Single. Time.

if it comes down to going Alt-Retard or having the "white race" wiped out, I would rather see whites wiped off the face of the Earth.

Blogger LP9 November 01, 2017 3:22 PM  

Where in the 16 points was abortion celebrated?

Many of media writers dont understand the alt right, they just are not informed. One youtuber said Onision is alt right, the guy hates the POTUS. MPAI

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 3:37 PM  

Any white man that thinks his girlfriend or wife having the right to murder his son is a trivial issue, has nothing to fight for and cannot be trusted as an ally.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 4:58 PM  

106. Mike November 01, 2017 3:14 PM
You Alt-Retards are big talkers when it comes to murdering the handicapped. #FakeRight



actually, no.

they're not "big talkers".

Hitler got his start doing organized murder by euthanizing infants in the handicapped wards. that was done WELL before he ever started rounding up Jews.

Blogger tublecane November 01, 2017 5:08 PM  

"Though this is terrifying to contemplate"

Not terrifying if you know the truth, which is that it's a lie. Though certainly *some* on the right support abortion in the interests of controlling undesirable populations, that's not a popular position.

But would it be all that terrifying? That's a soft form of eugenics, and dead black babies would have their own mothers to blame rather than racist white racists.

More to my point, that's the actual history of Planned Parenthood, you know. Early progressives wanted to keep their people on top, and failed miserably. Current Year progressives descend from them, and have maintained a love of abortion without the racial rationale. Nevertheless, the result is the same: many, many dead black babies.

Mainstream conservatives occasionally act terrified of their enemies to the left, but it's nothing like the fear they have of the those to their right. Probably many of them are "recovering" leftists who (supposedly) switched sides because of things like Israel instead of dead black babies.

Anonymous BBGKB November 01, 2017 5:15 PM  

People who support allowing the birth and survival of monstrosities in my opinion are just as emotionally invested

It's only just recently that hospitals started to acknowledge that with premature babies we have pushed back how early we can keep them alive, but not really how far back we can keep them alive with no health repercussions.

Where in the 16 points was abortion celebrated?

Right next to the HIV+ eateries https://squawker.org/culture-wars/first-ever-hiv-restaurant-is-ready-to-smashstigma/

And you thought running into your ex at IHOP was bad

Blogger tublecane November 01, 2017 5:27 PM  

@23-"the alt-right's origins lie with..."

That's the origins of the name more than the movement. Gottfried is one of many important thinkers in the paleocon/"alternative" conservative tradition, but not the only one. Spencer didn't become well-known or important until very recently. Neither are fountainheads in the manner of a Lenin or organizers in the manner of a Buckley.

The Alt-Right Phenomenon, i.e. resurgent rightist populism, is a much bigger thing than what's circumscribed the thoughts of those two men.

I've been in dissident right/alternative right circles for, I don't know, a decade. Though before the Trumpening I read three Gottfried books (one a collection of essays), to my knowledge I had never even heard Spencer's name until the kerfuffle over his nazi-esque hails.

The Right Stuff I happened to have heard because someone mentioned the Merchant Minute on some board in regards to the echo effect. But come on. Are we really tying a movement as big as the alt-right in some fundamental sense to *that*? Be real. You sound like someone trying to tie the entire hippy movement down to Tom Hayden personally, or something.

Blogger SirHamster November 01, 2017 5:29 PM  

Mike wrote:if it comes down to going Alt-Retard or having the "white race" wiped out, I would rather see whites wiped off the face of the Earth.

AltRetards are self-extincting. Hence why they model on Hitler.

Anonymous Warrior November 01, 2017 5:47 PM  

“AltRetards are self-extincting. Hence why they model on Hitler”

Well said. Look at Germany and how it was destroyed after trying to murder the Chosen People. If the US goes full Alt-Retard, expect God to smash it. This is why Vox Day should reconsider his anti-semitism. Genesis 12:3

Blogger tz November 01, 2017 6:01 PM  

PP Advocates Black Genocide

Sometimes the Lord will provide.

Blogger tz November 01, 2017 6:09 PM  

@94
It depends where you draw the line, originally the Apostles thought it was necessary to follow much more of the Jewish traditions. Newman in the Development of Christian Doctrine gave the history of the Christian church learning and finding out refined truth. Breaking of bread was also a tradition, but happens rarely.

While science can be easily refined from sun goes around the earth v.s vice versa, revelation is much harder so I won't argue and why I rarely address it in a directed manner. This is 1 day after the 500th anniversary of Luther igniting the reformation. Another reason is because Joseph Smith also declared all Christians of his era to be apostate for accepting accretions. While I can explain my reasoning behind doctrine and liturgy, I can't push revelation. The only thing I can bring up is fruit. Those who better obey the commandments, live lives of virtue, evangelize others, etc. are in Christ regardless of their theological views.

Blogger SirHamster November 01, 2017 6:34 PM  

Warrior wrote:This is why Vox Day should reconsider his anti-semitism.

You are a false witness.

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 7:18 PM  

@10 "black people are never going to trust Eddie over Maxine or Shelia Jackson Lee."

(Al from Bayshore-- please skip this; it's beyond offensive toward you...)

Which is reason enough and more to let blacks keep aborting as much as they will and can -- and for us to pay for it, too!

All you lovely anti-abortion guys (and I'm not being sarcastic; I DO understand your view) perhaps need to step up to: These invaders are NOT us, it may even be that blacks are not even the same subspecies! They are a plague, a cancer on our countries, and a permanently destructive force against OUR nation, our people, our children! I understand, baby rats, baby weasels, baby coyotes, baby ... pick your vermin ... are cute! Killing them is a painful choice because they are cute or maybe it's because they are babies! But they are and must remain OUR ENEMIES!

Why would stopping the destruction of however many hundreds of thousands of OUR ENEMIES in -- as Vox described St Breivik's 'prey' -- the pupal form of our ENEMIES ever ever ever be a good thing for us!? We put out bacillus thuringensis to kill mosquito larvae, and rat poison to kill infant rats, and and poison meat for coyotes to feed their young: we have all SORTS of killing methods for the *young* of animals that harm us!

HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT!?

If you want to actually reach a point where White women stop aborting, where our nation survives and we welcomes all OUR children (not all children, all OUR children) -- then we first have to get back to our nation. As long as Whites look at their chances of SUPPORTING lots of lovely White babies, of keeping a roof over their heads, and having a car to get to work, and maybe even just one spouse working -- as against feeding, housing, and schooling LaQuinta's 23 crack babies -- then Whites WILL choose not to make babies.

And please do not come back with "I'm White and I was able to have (my wife have) lots of babies." Unless you're shooting for White sharia -- you're going to have to make women WANT to come home and make babies.

As long as you'd rather stop enemies/vermin from cutting down on their future population in your homeland, then you're harming your future chances of having that White nation full of White kids! I'm vehemently pro-choice (surprise!)(not.) But I am also struggling with accepting the concept that -- IF we can get our nation back, perhaps "outlawing" abortion for White women -- in a WHITE COUNTRY -- is not the worst thing on the planet... (But if you can't differentiate between OUR children and the offspring of our enemies, then how can I trust you with our future!)

That is as close as I will EVER come until we GET to that White country! Until then? ANYTHING that cuts down on more and more of my ENEMIES in MY country is a benefit!

Blogger tublecane November 01, 2017 7:29 PM  

@122-It should be pointed out only some blacks are invaders. Others go back to before there was a United States.

Admittedly, black leadership is chockablock full of people with no or only partial relation to old black stock. Obama, for instance, is on his nonwhite side Kenyan, his dad having come over in the 50s. Not as an invader, technically, but due to one of our ruling class' endless supply of bright ideas. We lift up talented Africans, indoctrinate them in universal liberalism on our university campuses, and they...do something for us. Pave the way for corporations to profit from exploiting their countries when they go back, use or be used by the CIA, or stay here and impregnate our women.

Anonymous JCW November 01, 2017 7:33 PM  

“All you lovely anti-abortion guys (and I'm not being sarcastic; I DO understand your view) perhaps need to step up to: These invaders are NOT us, it may even be that blacks are not even the same subspecies! “

Alt-Retard Alert! How much does the FBI pay you to wear swastika panties?

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 7:42 PM  

@23 "Vox is probably the only major node who is solidly aligned with Christianity."

I wouldn't know cause I don't spend much time elsewhere. I DO know that I am now describing to friends and "tribe members" (both Christian and non-) that I have moved into the 100% cultural Christian column, with only a few reservations, FROM being here. If I ever go further, if God ever stretches out his hand and awakens the 'religion gene' that I do not believe I have, perhaps I will 'make it' all the way.

But, AS a 100% cultural Christian, it may be that I am a cautionary example. When you actual Christians get all bitchy about "they're killing the babies; save all the babies! (no matter what species)," I recoil, and I am back struggling with the conflict between what you guys SEEM to want to create (the White Christian-but-tolerant nation I also want) and your lack of recognition that NOT killing our enemies will never get us there.

Yes, I know, I'm a horrible terrible, feminist, racist, who wants to kill babies, blah blah blah. No, I'm not. I am modern(-ish) American White woman who wishes for OUR nation to be resurrected; who can and will accept an awful lot (to me -- probably to MOST women alive today!) of loss and restriction to achieve that nation, and who is actively working 'against my side' to help achieve that nation.

I would not, were I pregnant, kill that potential human life. That is my decision for myself. I am ALSO entirely willing to allow Planned Parenthood or whoever to keep reducing the future army against my nation!

Is it going to be necessary that men (and women, no doubt) will need to arm up and fight -- and die -- to recover our nation and its lands? I believe so. Is it necessary that abortion must/should/will continue to be available for a long as it's helping us avoid MORE of our men and women fighting and dying to regain our nation? DON'T keep confusing "they're killing babies" with there will be fewer of our enemies to deal with later.

Who has a higher value to you? The men and women who will fight to regain our nation, or babies of invaders and not-us unable to fit into our society and nation?

SOMEONE must bleed and die for us to survive. Which will it be?






Blogger S1AL November 01, 2017 7:49 PM  

Childless atheist is pro-abortion.

Quelle surprise.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 7:51 PM  

"we have all SORTS of killing methods for the *young* of animals that harm us!

HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT!?"


People aren't animals.

"Unless you're shooting for White sharia -- you're going to have to make women WANT to come home and make babies."

The act of physically giving birth to children is unpleasant. Hedonistic people will never WANT to make babies. As much as it pains me to say it, part of why Islam is relatively successful currently is that they're closer to doing some things right than we are. Obviously "White Shariah" is a package of which we only need less than 1%, not the whole thing by any means, only the worthwhile bits. Even a broken clock...

Look at it from the standpoint of duty. Men are held even by current society to have a duty to go to war to defend the country, and we can be drafted completely against our will and thrown into battle when such is necessary. I would add that men are expected to provide financially for the family, but obviously SOME women have tried to move into that realm in order to gloss over their flagrant dereliction of their ACTUAL duties. Still a man's duty.

What're the equal duties for women? Running the household and bearing children. It's NOT OPTIONAL if you want your country to survive. While ideally people should want to do what they ought to do, clearly they do not. "What I want to do I do not do, but what I hate, I do." Obviously the verse I'm quoting is actually referring to the mirror counterpoint of this ("what I want to do" referring to righteous desires), but the point stands. Wanting has nothing to do with it, it's do or die.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 7:53 PM  

I might also mention another verse about those whose "hands are wet with the blood of the innocent". IF they're going to kill their babies anyway, there's not much I can do to stop it ultimately... BUT I CAN CERTAINLY REFUSE TO PAY FOR IT OR PARTICIPATE IN IT MYSELF.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd November 01, 2017 7:54 PM  

Avalanche wrote:Which is reason enough and more to let blacks keep aborting as much as they will and can -- and for us to pay for it, too!

Yes, I know that nits make lice. Still, we need to stop abortion. Go into the book of Joshua and read why God ordered the Israelites to wipe out all the Canaanites.

If we need fewer Blacks, and you do make a good case for that, I think we can get there without abortion.

Just for a start, we could stand back and let the Black adults kill each other. After all, it's the lice that make the nits. The Blacks attack one another so eagerly. Black Lives Matter to Blacks - as targets.

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 7:58 PM  

@77 " How many people who hang out at Red Ice know about Vox?"

Uh James? Vox has been ON Red Ice! Maybe you should go take a listen! Henrik Palmgren (Lana's husband, who started Red Ice) has done some amazing great interviews!

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 8:00 PM  

@86 ""40% off all abortions are black."
Margret Sanger would be proud."

No, Margaret Sanger would think she wasn't working hard enough!

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 8:04 PM  

@105 "I'm for abortion for enemy tribes without reservation. I'm for abortion for my tribe when it strengthens my tribe (Down syndrome, other severe birth defects, formation of an intact family for the child is unlikely or impossible, family cannot handle another child causing harm to previous children, miscegenation)."

Yes, I'm on Mr Rational's boat!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 8:13 PM  

@131. Avalanche, Atheists in the same boat. Shocking.

This is why I say that Atheism can logically only lead to either Nihilism or Hedonism. I would categorize Neitzscheism under Hedonism, as Neitszcheism lusts after Strength or Masterfulness because they impart survival, the desire for survival being an umbrella for all the pleasures of life.

Effectively, you believe that people are not meaningfully different from animals. Both are purposeless meat-machines in the absence of a creator. Therefore you will seek whatever things you think you desire. Currently you desire victory, and as there is no logical reason for you not to kill people, even for no reason at all, also there is even less reason for you to abstain from the murder of those who will likely later oppose you.

Just remember, if human lives don't have value, yours doesn't either. Then extrapolate to where that kind of thinking has led in the past.

Anonymous Pitcrew November 01, 2017 8:25 PM  

I'm very wary of abortion at all. Still I can understand why people want the choice, if a woman is intent on killing her baby I don't know how to stop that without punishing the woman. Abortion feels wrong. And I suspect, the least responsible/lowest IQ blacks are not aborting their children at all, since they get more gov't checks. Those mildly responsible blacks would be a punching bag for the less responsible (in a relative sense) when shtf properly. 90 IQ blacks won't be able to live with the 70 IQ blacks. 70 IQ people are not capable of following leadership.

That being said, in a traditionalist nation embracing Christianity, abortion would be completely outlawed- the racial outcome of which would be irrelevant as said nation would be largely of the same Race(~95%) AND Ethnicity (~80%). Welfare would be non-existant so if even a few low-IQ ferals were to reside they would find life extremely difficult by breeding out of control. Church groups could help the less fortunate, but that's a song and dance routine ferals can't do, and scripture would be followed exactly- none of this islamo-african refugee adoption BS- that's verboten per the Old Testament.

Blogger The Observer November 01, 2017 8:28 PM  

Still I can understand why people want the choice, if a woman is intent on killing her baby I don't know how to stop that without punishing the woman.

If you believe that women have agency and are responsible for their actions, then why not punish them if they are clearly doing something wrong?

If not, then fine, let's place them firmly back under the thumbs of their fathers, to be transferred to their husbands later in life. No making any decisions more important than what to have for dinner.

Anonymous Pitcrew November 01, 2017 8:33 PM  

We can only wish. Currently women are about in a "free" society as equals to men, and all of the obvious sin that leads to. We reside in an unnatural arrangement for women- it creates strife and resentment.

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 9:30 PM  

@128 "If we need fewer Blacks, and you do make a good case for that, I think we can get there without abortion.
Just for a start, we could stand back and let the Black adults kill each other. After all, it's the lice that make the nits. The Blacks attack one another so eagerly."

How many White women and girls are you okay with getting tortured, raped, and murdered? Ever read up on Channon Christian (age 21) and Hugh Newsom in Knowville? After raping and raping and raping her (and him!) and after they tortured and KILLED him in front of her (and then raped her some more), they poured bleach down her throat WHILE SHE WAS ALIVE to try to destroy their DNA. FINALLY they killed her and let her escape her hours and hours of torture.

How about the White grannies getting raped and and burned and killed? (Or raped and burned -- but NOT killed; and once she regained consciousness, with two broken forearms, she managed to crawl to a phone and call for help, but she died after three days of agony in a hospital?

How about all those (media-described) "burglaries gone wrong"? No "burglar" EVER decides, "welp, my robbery went wrong so I guess I'll rape the woman and her daughters before I go!" (Or have you kept your eyes carefully CLOSED to what is really going on in America?!)

Just how many "nits" are you willing to let grow up?

Anonymous AB.Prosper November 01, 2017 9:54 PM  

S1AL wrote:Childless atheist is pro-abortion.

Quelle surprise.


Avalanche is being quite logical here. The nation that the .Alt Right wants is going to require millions and millions of deaths, maybe tens or hundreds of millions of expulsions and worse.

People who aren't born, aren't going suffer and every enemy unborn lowers the risk profile for our side. One less soldier.

Now the "moral" goal is to avoid this conflict is possible but I don't know how to do that ? Do any of you? And no, mass conversion isn't on the table just in case it comes up.

In a broader sense, the .Alt Right is highly factional like all leaderless ideological movements . It has a Libertarians, Christian, Heathen/Pagan and many Secular people in it . It even had a Leftists, fellow traveler wing for a bit till they screwed up and got the boot.

What percent of the movement belong to what faction is not something that can easily be determined though I suspect its Whiter than the US in general, about as Christian, maybe more and somewhat more Heathen/Pagan though absolute numbers of them are limited.

This suggest that the abortion issue is going to remain an issue even if somehow the .Alt Right gets power.

Lastly, I think the Christian Deus Volt side sees this as a religious war , Good vs. Evil but I'm fairly certain the rest of the factions do not and see it as a tribal war or in some cases Order vs. Chaos

This too will complicate things further as well. Getting past that to one or more nations that can tolerate one another will be an interesting challenge to say the least

Blogger Feather Blade November 01, 2017 9:56 PM  

Avalanche wrote:Just how many "nits" are you willing to let grow up?

You arrest them, prosecute them according to the law, and mete out the just punishment for their crimes, up to and including execution.

In other words - you enforce the law.

You do not kill kids who have not themselves committed a crime for which the just punishment is death.

Why? Because we are a civilized and Christian people, who strive to emulate the justice of God in our jurisprudence.

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 10:00 PM  

@132 "Effectively, you believe that people are not meaningfully different from animals."

On the contrary, I believe not ONLY are animals and people meaningfully different, but that there are MEANINGFUL differences between types / groups / races of humans! (SO DID GOD! Else why did God direct the killing of all the men women children and animals of whatever "not-us" group / tribe / people, and the salting of the earth? And over and over?)

There is a HUGE meaningful difference between the people who created this country: the nation (the extended family of genetically related people) and the other Euro-derived people who, at least, could share much of the views and ways of life of the "Posterity" and the invaders and non-Whites who are swamping this country.

(No, I feel no guilt whatsoever for
'descendants of slaves.' EVERY people on the planet has had slavery in their past-- hell, the WORD "slave" comes from "Slav" -- the SLAVIK Whites of eastern Europe! Blacks in this country have been given chance after chance, literally trillions of dollars, and more 'rope' to pull themselves up than is reasonable. They either chose not to or are not able to live in an advanced technological society. NOT OUR PROBLEM! They must go back!)


Both are purposeless meat-machines in the absence of a creator.

Do you differentiate between vudon and animism and african Christianity? (Can you?) Is african Christianity, with its animism and african tribal "trappings" still Christianity? If their creator is a .. I don't know what .. a large bee that mixed honey and clay and created them... is that sufficient? Are they still Christian?


Therefore you will seek whatever things you think you desire. Currently you desire victory, and as there is no logical reason for you not to kill people, even for no reason at all,

Does not GOD give us that reason? Does not GOD say: "kill off those people, that tribe; do not kill your own people"? Why do you say there is no logical reason not to kill people - when there is in fact an entirely logical reason to kill people! It's already a race war; you (most Whites) just have not yet noticed! THEY are killing US! (It's not even the libertarian principle of "never starting violence but self defense is always allowed." WHEN do we start defending ourselves?!)

I do desire victory FOR MY PEOPLE! For my nation, for the country built by my forebears. (Yeah, I'm posterity.) MY ENEMIES are destroying that and would deny it to me -- how it that NOT an excellent reason TO kill them!? Is that not what God directed, over and over, in the Bible? Why is it somehow NOW not acceptable? Is that churchianity?


also there is even less reason for you to abstain from the murder of those who will likely later oppose you.

You believe St Breivik was wrong then?


Just remember, if human lives don't have value, yours doesn't either. Then extrapolate to where that kind of thinking has led in the past.

YES -- it has led and is leading to the destruction of MY nation! If human lives don't have value, then WHY do you think we should let black kill blacks so we can "someday" get our country back from them? WHERE OH WHERE is the Christian SOLDIER!?

Do you hold the fetus of your enemy to be AS valuable as the LIFE of your child? (It's a yes or no question.) Is the survival of your PEOPLE more valuable than their destruction? Is the survival of your people more valuable than the lives of the nits AND lice who would destroy your CHILD and your PEOPLE?!

"Value" is not binary. It is, however, calculable: the survival of MY people outweighs the "nits" of my enemy. Always, 100%, without question.

WHO outweighs the nits of YOUR enemy?

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 10:14 PM  

@138 "Just how many "nits" are you willing to let grow up?

You arrest them, prosecute them according to the law, and mete out the just punishment for their crimes, up to and including execution.
In other words - you enforce the law."


I'm sure that's a TRUE consolation to Channon and Hugh -- or any of THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of White women (and men) who've been raped and tortured and killed! What a protective and caring man you must be!! Tell me -- what about YOUR wife and daughters? ANY consolation to you or them if, **GOD forbid**, they are attacked by those "nits" you would let grow up?

If rabid bats have moved into your house -- do you just say, "well, IF one of them bites a child of mine, THEN I will shoot it -- but until then, I'll just roll the dice and PRAY it's not MY child who gets hurt!" I sure don't want you in MY tribe!

emulate the justice of God
I'm not even a believer and I must have read (or understood?) more of the Bible than you, cause I see LOTS of "kill them all" DIRECTED by God. If GOD directs the death of everyone in a tribe to protect HIS beloved tribe -- who are YOU to say: "no, we don't DO that!"? If God protects His chosen, His children, AGAINST OTHERS, who are YOU to hold up those others, those not-yours, as to be better protected than YOURS?!

Are there truly no Christian warriors left? God did not wipe them out with a wave of his hand; God said to HIS warriors, the men of HIS tribe: "GO! KILL!"

When and how did an honorable warrior religion turn into milque-toast and mewling? HOW will the "Saracens" ever be driven out of Europe if they are men and ours are not?

Anonymous Avalanche November 01, 2017 10:15 PM  

Geez. With your shield or on it!

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 10:22 PM  

@122

Even if you assume blacks or whatever other biological sub-group are your enemies, and you accept total war as necessary (if you don't kill them young, you'll have to kill them old), abortion today is not a race segregated issue. Allowing pro-abortionists to hold supremacy may in the aggregate kill more "of them", but what happens when it is YOUR white baby being butchered by his mother, with the full legal saction of the state, and no legal recourse available to you as the father? This is not how you'll win this war. Whites are being destroyed from within, through treason, not by being overwhelmed from without. Your enemies are not black babies, they are white adults.

Also, even if blacks "are not even the same subspecies", that doesn't mean they are our enemies and we have to get rid of them. Cows are not the same subspecies and we coexist just fine.

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 10:26 PM  

@124

"I am modern(-ish) American White woman"

Oh, that explains it. You don't care about abortion being legal because, as far as your babies are concerned, you are the one making the call to kill, or not to kill. Yea, we're shooting for White Sharia.

Blogger Sevron November 01, 2017 10:30 PM  

One day we’ll be allowed to kill the pro-abortion folks en masse. It will be glorious.

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 10:33 PM  

@128 Just stop giving black women welfare. You know, during the early days of slavery there was a constant complaint by farmers that blacks refused to multiply like the livestock they were meant to be.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 10:34 PM  

One day we’ll be allowed to kill the pro-abortion folks en masse. It will be glorious.

Deus Vult

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 10:35 PM  

@133

"if a woman is intent on killing her baby I don't know how to stop that without punishing the woman"

Easy fix! Punish the woman.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 01, 2017 10:37 PM  

I wouldn't know cause I don't spend much time elsewhere. I DO know that I am now describing to friends and "tribe members" (both Christian and non-) that I have moved into the 100% cultural Christian column, with only a few reservations, FROM being here. If I ever go further, if God ever stretches out his hand and awakens the 'religion gene' that I do not believe I have, perhaps I will 'make it' all the way.

But, AS a 100% cultural Christian, it may be that I am a cautionary example. When you actual Christians get all bitchy about "they're killing the babies; save all the babies! (no matter what species)," I recoil, and I am back struggling with the conflict between what you guys SEEM to want to create (the White Christian-but-tolerant nation I also want) and your lack of recognition that NOT killing our enemies will never get us there.


You are not a cultural Christian. You are pure evil. You belong to your father the devil.

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 10:43 PM  

@139

"You believe St Breivik was wrong then?"

How many black babies did Breivik kill? Last time I checked, the answer was zero.

Anonymous AB.Prosper November 01, 2017 11:07 PM  

Sevron wrote:One day we’ll be allowed to kill the pro-abortion folks en masse. It will be glorious.

They probably match or exceed you in numbers and many can and will shoot back so be careful what you wish for.

Blogger James Dixon November 01, 2017 11:07 PM  

> In other words - you enforce the law. ... You do not kill kids who have not themselves committed a crime for which the just punishment is death.

Playing devil's advocate; what if, after due consideration, the law says to kill them? It's a simple matter of changing it you know.

You need a better basis than man made law for such decisions.

Anonymous johnc November 01, 2017 11:11 PM  

@149 How many black babies did Breivik kill? Last time I checked, the answer was zero.

Breivik will never be canonized because he was a white-killing Zionist. And Zionists are out of vogue with Generation Zyklon so his prospects aren't looking so good.

As for the atheists on our side... I think they mean well but they're just dumber than a bag of hammers. The problem is that they are completely blind of the spiritual realm, so in many ways they're forming conclusions with so little accurate information. So they can't understand that even if there is a "race war", that would be nothing more than a sideshow of a larger satanic uprising, which is so obviously afoot in the world today. I mean one really does have to be dumber than a slab of concrete to not understand what the hell is going on in the world right now. Will it help if Big Bird and Elmo come out and explain it to them?

Blogger Sevron November 01, 2017 11:13 PM  

Unlikely, and irrelevant.

Blogger Dire Badger November 01, 2017 11:18 PM  

tz wrote:@94

It depends where you draw the line, originally the Apostles thought it was necessary to follow much more of the Jewish traditions. Newman in the Development of Christian Doctrine gave the history of the Christian church learning and finding out refined truth. Breaking of bread was also a tradition, but happens rarely.

While science can be easily refined from sun goes around the earth v.s vice versa, revelation is much harder so I won't argue and why I rarely address it in a directed manner. This is 1 day after the 500th anniversary of Luther igniting the reformation. Another reason is because Joseph Smith also declared all Christians of his era to be apostate for accepting accretions. While I can explain my reasoning behind doctrine and liturgy, I can't push revelation. The only thing I can bring up is fruit. Those who better obey the commandments, live lives of virtue, evangelize others, etc. are in Christ regardless of their theological views.



Thank you. Even a Trinitarian can get into heaven.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 11:25 PM  

"On the contrary, I believe not ONLY are animals and people meaningfully different, but that there are MEANINGFUL differences between types / groups / races of humans!"

Apoligies if I am wrong, but I believe that you have expressed before that you are a "cultural" Christian, meaning not a Christian at all, but someone who has been habitually conformed to a surrounding Christian society.

If you are an Atheist, Culturally Christian or not, You have precisely zero reason for any belief or feeling that people are meaningfully different from people, or from animals. In point of fact, according to your belief people ARE a variety of animals. The only differences are numbers, this panther is faster, this bear is stronger, this bacterium is more resilient, this human is smarter.

Take the larger perspective. Compared to a rare few others at the present time, you and I are likely as inferior by whatever metric you choose as the people you are effectively trying to dehumanize by saying, "Human, but not like I am."

Take a step back further still, to the potential of aliens capable of interstellar travel or aeon-spanning civilizations. You and I are utterly pathetic in by every conceivable metric by comparison, certainly not "human like them" by any stretch of the imagination.

One more step. Take the hypothetical perspective of a programmer, a programmer that programmed the entirety of the universe, upon whose whims we all dance like puppets in chains, chains that we can choose to see as either restricting us or holding us upright against collapse. We are all, by the numbers, totally insignificant and sub-whatever from the ultimate perspective. Phytoplankton are not meaningfully different from the perspective of a whale, they're all food's food. They all serve the same purpose.

By your perspective (assuming you're Atheist) we're all logically meat-machines. The only meaningful difference is that you don't feel that YOU and YOURS are simply meat-machines, a belief that is totally unfounded on your larger worldview.

"Do you differentiate between vudon and animism and african Christianity?"

Utterly irrelevant. In the absence of a creator that says you are meaningful, you are logically meaningless in the ultimate sense of the word. You have no possible value that can be logically or rationally derived from any other basis than pure feelings.

"Does not GOD give us that reason?"

God tells us that we shall not shed innocent blood, period.

"Does not GOD say: "kill off those people, that tribe; do not kill your own people"?"

VERY out of context. I'm getting an increasing suspicion here that you're trying to talk about things you haven't taken adequate time to understand.

"Why do you say there is no logical reason not to kill people - when there is in fact an entirely logical reason to kill people!"

Logical from which perspective, Christian or Atheist? From the Atheist perspective there is ultimately no logical reason to kill people. There is also ultimately no logical reason not to. No, the reasons of Atheism, when it has any at all, all derive from the fulfillment of basic-impulse-desires, Hedonism.

From the Christian perspective, God has on many an occasion told us to go and kill the wicked and occasionally the tainted as well. We do not possess ultimate, perfect perspectives, so we may or may not know exactly the reasons why. Yet, repeatedly there is the refrain to the effect of: "Do not shed the blood of the innocent. I will destroy those who shed the blood of the innocent. I will wipe them from the Earth."

What I see in you is that your really ARE a Cultural Christian. When you try to use Atheist logic you get caught up in the morals of a Christianity derived from culture rather than logic, while when you try to use Christian faith you ignore the commands of the Christian God.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 11:25 PM  

"You believe St Breivik was wrong then?" Not necessarily. You, on the other hand, have absolutely no basis to say that he was either right or wrong that does not necessarily derive strictly from your feelings. Yes, this IS a trick observation that many people project untrue implications upon. You can't find the trick because it is the ideological ground that you also cannot find.

"YES -- it has led and is leading to the destruction of MY nation!"

WRONG! Murdering the potentially inconvenient leads directly to the auto-genocides of Stalin and Mao Tze-Tong! Your thought process EXEMPLIFIES that of the greatest mass murderers in modern history.

"Do you hold the fetus of your enemy to be AS valuable as the LIFE of your child?

I do not, emotionally, because the value of a human can derive from nowhere else. IRRELEVANT, because...

WHO outweighs the nits of YOUR enemy?"

AND the nits of myself? You're still not getting this? Fine.

THE WILL OF MY GOD.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 01, 2017 11:28 PM  

"They probably match or exceed you in numbers and many can and will shoot back so be careful what you wish for."

Please. They dismember unborn children because they are neither mentally nor physically capable of handling a real fight.

Blogger André Sanchez November 01, 2017 11:43 PM  

@157 Exactly. The abortion block is made up of damaged women, beta men, and plain psychopaths. No self-respecting man would be okay with the idea of giving his wife the right to butcher his son or daughter. That is what the pro-choice lobby is all about, radical matriarchy. And guess what? Matriarchies never, ever, manage to hold back patriarchal societies. Ever. You people want to know why Europe is being consumed by Islam? Because despite its flaws, Islam is patriarchal, while Europe is matriarchal. Say what you want about Saudi Arabia, they don't butcher their own babies on an industrial scale.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 11:45 PM  

133. Pitcrew November 01, 2017 8:25 PM
if a woman is intent on killing her baby I don't know how to stop that without punishing the woman.


the woman should not be punished for infanticide?

because she WANTED to commit infanticide?

wanting to do something makes immorality moral? makes the un-Lawful, legal?

that's a curious position you've got there.

either the fetus has the Rights of a person or it does not. if it does not, then there is no crime nor moral condemnation due for the act of destroying it.



137. AB.Prosper November 01, 2017 9:54 PM
Now the "moral" goal is to avoid this conflict is possible but I don't know how to do that ?


as has been pointed out before, while only ~13% of the population, Negros account for almost a majority of all major felony categories. the societal and financial cost in policing, adjudicating and incarcerating them is immense.

and there is no return for it. unless you like Jazz or NBA or something.

therefore, we should institute a "40 acres and a mule" program.

with the caveat that they have to go back to Africa and renounce US citizenship to get it.

put their gibsmedats OVER THERE, and many of them will go. especially if you offer to commute a prison sentence while you're at it.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 01, 2017 11:59 PM  

This idea looks good but even then I fear problems.
My Asian friends are always complaining about how the dating scene is completely stacked against them, how even if they marry a girl she cheats with a white guy, how Asian guys could never be allowed to be cool or alpha, etc.

They are overstating and dwelling on the negative, but they are not speaking fantasy, either. They do suffer from a certain bias against them by women in general in the US.
They are one of two groups (the other being Plains Indians) who I could possibly soften my stance for. These are good men on the whole, and they aren't going well, or as well as they should be.

That could be a major problem of a mixed Eurasian society, if in fact that's what you mean by East/West

Blogger WynnLloyd November 02, 2017 12:10 AM  

That's a very good point. It summarizes how I feel better than what I was going to comment.

Blogger Feather Blade November 02, 2017 12:10 AM  

Avalanche wrote:I sure don't want you in MY tribe!

That, at least, we can certainly agree on.

The reasoning is this: if you make it easy, convenient, and expected for people to kill their own children - for whom they should feel love, affection and protectiveness - then you make it easier for them to kill those who are not their families.
If one places no value on one's own flesh and blood, then how much less value will one place on the flesh and blood of another?

So, those who encourage abortion in members of other races, are encouraging in them a mindset that values no life at all - not their own and not their neighbors.

This means that it will be very easy for them to kill you for any or no reason. Which is what we see.

If, on the other hand, you encourage them to value their own lives - to value human life in any form - to not kill their own children, then it will be more difficult for them to make the decision to kill you. They will only kill you if they think you present and existential threat to them and theirs, not because they were bored.

By encouraging them to kill their own people, you are creating the threat to your survival that you claim to fear.

Blogger André Sanchez November 02, 2017 12:14 AM  

I just want to say something to people who are okay with abortion because of black on white crime. I want you to look up the official statistics and compare the number of murders per year to the number of abortions per year. Slice the numbers any way you want, you canno hide from the fact that far more white people are being killed by high IQ white/asian abortion "doctors" than by low IQ black thugs.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 02, 2017 12:17 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 02, 2017 12:19 AM  

For each person on the Alt-Right the influences miggt be different. For me there are four:
1. Tradition Catholicism (particularly Traditional Latin Mass movement).
2. Discovering the truth about Wallace, Bilbo, Thurmond, Helms, and the necessity of segregation.
3. Time spent in Asia and reading a lot of Chinese and Japanese literature, and becoming keenly aware of how they view their own identities, and how their homogenous societies have advantages we don't.
4. CH, Roosh, Return of Kings, Rational Male, etc. and the entire game movement, which seemed to be the catalyst for me and many, many others.

Never did Germanic culture or Odinist mythology ever enter into the picture, nor any desire for genetic purity tests or anything like that.

I would imagine that what the alt-right is depends on country, region, religion, etc.

Blogger ZhukovG November 02, 2017 12:21 AM  

I doubt the African-Americans will be going to Africa. The relatively few who survive, what is sadly coming, should be able to settle in The South.

There should be plenty of cheap real estate as I expect the United States to lose about 50-60% of its population through emigration, deportation and annihilation.

Blogger tublecane November 02, 2017 12:48 AM  

@159-"because she WANTED to commit infanticide?"

Moreso because she's a woman. We let them get away with murder, literally.

Remember when Trump got in trouble during the election over whether or not women should be punished for abortions? People were comfortable with the idea of doctors being punished, whether or not they actually want abortion to be legal. But the ones who hire the doctors, just no. That's taboo, because woman.

Same way Johns are punished worse than hookers, when two drunk people have sex only the men can be rapists, sexual harassment mostly goes in one direction, and domestic violence and family law in general are wildly imbalanced. Because women are so, so precious. Like little teddy bears.

Aww, aren't they cute? Power goes along with cuteness, right?

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 12:48 AM  

Raw Cringe wrote:it is not a valid moral or political analysis to argue "abortion disproportionately kills blacks, therefore it is good / should remain legal".
Had it not been for Roe v. Wade, Hillary Rodham Clinton would be POTUS today.  Had we had an even more eugenic national policy, BHO would not have been elected.  We might even have been able to recover Detroit, doubly so if the pro-life brigades of Michigan hadn't blocked a change in welfare policy to stop payments for additional children born while on welfare.

That is as political as you can get.  Numbers matter.

@39  "Pneuma" means both "breath" and "soul".

Meng Greenleaf wrote:I'd only add that an Ethical argument could be mounted regarding the morality of harming a human who is not conscious.
That's assuming your conclusion.  In most cases of abortion, the fetus is not CAPABLE of consciousness.

@86  If most of the remaining Black out-of-wedlock births were aborted instead, it would be more like 54%.

Mike wrote:You Alt-Retards are big talkers when it comes to murdering the handicapped.
When someone tells you they'd just as soon have been stillborn, it is not something you can ignore.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"I feel pity for the deformed"

And yet you wish to murder them.

Murder is:
The (1) unlawful (2) killing (3) of a human being (4) with malice aforethought.

Even if you outlaw abortion, (3) doesn't exist pre-viability and (4) is vitiated by motives of mercy.

@110  Thanks for outing yourself as a cuck.

@113  How much were those handicapped wards costing Germany, while Germans starved?

@122  You go girl.

@124  Sterilization gets rid of the abortion issue.  It's such a pity that "pro-life" generally opposes it almost as hysterically as abortion.

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Just for a start, we could stand back and let the Black adults kill each other. After all, it's the lice that make the nits.
Except that's the Black adult males, and the killers become the most successful reproducers.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Effectively, you believe that people are not meaningfully different from animals.
Oh for crying out loud.  Even Christians believe we all had the same creator.  We're subject to many of the same maladies.  The same forces that operate on them, operate on us; we are all just as much of this world in the physical sense.  The only thing that sets us apart is our ability to consciously understand this and act on it.

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 12:54 AM  

Pitcrew wrote:70 IQ people are not capable of following leadership.
The average IQ of Africans is roughly 70.  They are obviously capable of following tribal leaders.

in a traditionalist nation embracing Christianity, abortion would be completely outlawed
It's my understanding that there were NO anti-abortion laws for roughly the first century of the USA, and it was most definitely Christian.  "Pro-life" is a much later thing.

AB.Prosper wrote:Now the "moral" goal is to avoid this conflict is possible but I don't know how to do that ? Do any of you?
I do.  I've suggested it many times.  Put the welfare hordes on Depo-Provera at puberty.  Allow them off if they do well in school, obey the law, get jobs and form a family with a provider.  Make enough demands of the failures that most volunteer to be sterilized at age 18 in return for a substantial lump sum cash payment and a stipend lasting a few years.

This population would almost never be ABLE to get an abortion, yet my position is massively unpopular.

@140 That's Christian Newsom, BTW.

André Sanchez wrote:Cows are not the same subspecies and we coexist just fine.
Cows are our livestock.  We have bred them to our purposes and we breed, milk and kill them as we wish.  They are not capable of being our enemies.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:In the absence of a creator that says you are meaningful, you are logically meaningless in the ultimate sense of the word.
You mean you are unable to come up with your own meaning.

Logical from which perspective, Christian or Atheist? From the Atheist perspective there is ultimately no logical reason to kill people.
Get real.  Self-defense.  Acquisition of land/resources/females.  People all over the world do these things for the same reasons.

@159  White people like Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman and Dave Brubek make the best jazz.  Oh, and Ludwig von Beethoven created ragtime/jazz music.

I give Blacks full credit for bebop, which I loathe.

Anonymous Pitcrew November 02, 2017 12:57 AM  

At some point the encouragement of abortion, and rewarding of women who have abortions, begins to bear similarities with baalism. Scripture describes the punishments for this.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2017 1:29 AM  

"Murder is:
The (1) unlawful (2) killing (3) of a human being (4) with malice aforethought.

Even if you outlaw abortion, (3) doesn't exist pre-viability and (4) is vitiated by motives of mercy."


No, murder is not unlawful killing. Murder is immoral killing. All of the murders committed by Hitler and the Nazis, including upon their own people? Legal at the time. Most if not all of the murders maliciously caused or ordered by Stalin and Mao? Legal at the time.

"Oh for crying out loud. Even Christians believe we all had the same creator."

Yes, but you fail at knowledge about Christianity, unsurprisingly. We also believe that God specially breathed Spirit into human beings after personally fashioning their forms from the dust. Everything else was spoken into being. This is not only one, but two major differences between human beings and any sort of animal.

"You mean you are unable to come up with your own meaning."

No, I literally mean that in the absence of a creator that says humans have meaning, there is no possible logical source of meaning that does not terminate directly and entirely in your feels. I am not wrong, you not liking to acknowledge the facts of the matter notwithstanding.

"Get real. Self-defense. Acquisition of land/resources/females. People all over the world do these things for the same reasons."

All circular and based on your feels. Self defense? Why, because you don't feel like dying? Acquisition of anything, why? Because you want it? You really don't need it, except to stay alive, for which there is no logical reason except for that you wish to.

I give no shits how many people do these things, which is both an attempt at a bandwagon argument and irrelevant to your case even if a bandwagon fallacy were a perfect argument. They still do it because of their feelings/emotions/desires/lusts and not, at basis, out of any logic. Logic merely enables and streamlines, emotion drives.

"we are all just as much of this world in the physical sense. The only thing that sets us apart is our ability to consciously understand this and act on it."

False on both points. Firstly, because the unlike the animals, humans are not entirely of the world according to the Bible. Secondly, octopi and dolphins, as well as several other animals, are capable of solving complex problems. The physiological mental differences are quantitative rather than qualitative. The capacity to act upon stimuli is mere sentience, sapience being the capacity to think about and arrive at ultimately "good" (read: effective/beneficial) choices, ergo its translation, "wisdom", something that you will note is exceedingly difficult if not impossible for science to quantify.

Anonymous AB.Prosper November 02, 2017 1:36 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"They probably match or exceed you in numbers and many can and will shoot back so be careful what you wish for."

Please. They dismember unborn children because they are neither mentally nor physically capable of handling a real fight.
Azure Amaranthine wrote:"They probably match or exceed you in numbers and many can and will shoot back so be careful what you wish for."

Please. They dismember unborn children because they are neither mentally nor physically capable of handling a real fight.


The Low T Bernie Bros aren't a threat but AntiFa is more than capable of violence and can very easily learn to be good at it . They won't match the Right White but they will fight and have been proven to do so albeit ineffectively thus far

On the whole the Left is amazing at mass killing, a hundred million or more in the 20th century easy. Also assuming everyone who is not anti abortion , isn't Christian or whatever is worthless in a fight is absurd .

Christianity Today http://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2015/april/atheists-outnumber-southern-baptists-in-us-military.html

Notes that Atheist outnumber Southern Baptists in the Military !

Also quite a non Whites are good in a fight as well, again the Right White will be better on an individual and group basis but they aren't all Soy Boi's you are facing

White Christians which is with a few exceptions the entire Deus Volt wing of the Alt Right are declining as percentage of the population even with a higher TFR and this broad group includes a lot of cucks. Its no longer the majority in the US andisn't likely to have overwhelming numbers

My opinion here is that this part of the .Alt Right is a bit incoherent on its views regarding who lives where and on economic matters. The assumption that we can return to an economy with a high demand for labor and a vastly White majority without force is risible. They have to go back but they won't go back without being forced to do so and they have guns too.

As for our Black countrymen like it or not some Black folk have been here longer than White newcomers , wanting to make an exception for them isn't cucky, its quite principled but in order to prevent many of the problems we have now, you had better have some demand for lower skilled labor for them and for Whites

No idea how anyone is going to achieve that if they are stuck on Ayn Rand . In that sense the economy will have to be populist and regulated and very possibly after a time social democratic

Well of you could kill a lot of useless eaters, let them die in which case many babies will die and I have trouble seeing why you care about abortions not on your side
Optionally you can have them weaponized by the subversives that you will miss even if you become a police state , in which case you also lose since you've become exactly what your foes said you would and your Militia Right will turn on you

As bad as he is for the optics, Spencer and his cronies at least have ideas, albeit bad ones on those grounds, The Alt Right may want to find good ones of its own that aren't leftist

This fight is deeper than race, its also culture and its economic

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2017 1:41 AM  

It's almost amazing how quickly you fall back on legality and legal definitions, Mr. Rational. It's almost as if you'd have no qualms doing whatever the powerful-person-of-the-moment says is okay. I'll remember that in the hypothetical event someone takes you hostage, or the less hypothetical event you or anyone remotely like you attempts to approach the reigns of power while I have any weapon to hand, or just any time you're not in my direct line of sight.

Atheists, exemplifying mass murder while screaming about legendary abuses of themselves by Christians, many of which never happened to begin with, and all of which, even if they had happened, would equal to a tiny, tiny fraction of the same by Atheists against Christians.

You'll conveniently ignore, I trust, that if Christians were in power at the time, they also made the law, meaning that the legal abuses and killings were not murders by your logic?

Blogger Dire Badger November 02, 2017 1:48 AM  

One thing a lot of people ignore is the whole slippery slope of evil.

Any time you allow evil a foot in the door, you open the door wide... It's like the story of the bank guard... The Bank Guard has to protect the loot every single day, day after day, and be right EVERY time to succeed. The thief only has to be right ONCE to make the guard fail.

Evil is exactly like that... if you ever compromise, ever allow it to gain a 'foot in the door', you eventually throw the door completely.... because evil presses at that crack constantly, and sooner or later you are going to fail to protect it adequately, and the crack opens a little more, and then a new round of pressure starts.

You CANNOT allow the 'little evil' of abortion, or feminism, or homosexual acceptance, or underage sexuality, even the slightest of leeway... no matter how well-justified or 'good seeming' the reason is. Because evil will press at that crack eternally widening it, and 'good reason abortion' turns into 'at will murder of your children'. 'feminism' becomes 'matriarchy', 'homosexual acceptance' eventually becomes 'homosexual priority', and 'innocent kids getting married to their older romance' turns into 'pederast normalization'.

It's just the fact that you have to deal with when dealing with evil, and it's satanic leftist arm. Never, ever give them a crack, even if there's VERY good reasons for that crack, because it can never stay an exception... it will always be normalized.

In conclusion, we need to start executing, not just the doctors that perform abortions, but the girls that have it done. And any who aid and abet this crime need to be punished as well.

Cry and whine about 'beautiful girls getting killed' all you like, but until we treat abortion of ALL sorts like the cold-blooded murder that it is, it will remain the most popular option for narcissistic whores.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2017 1:58 AM  

"Also assuming everyone who is not anti abortion , isn't Christian or whatever is worthless in a fight is absurd."

Most of them have more or less no opinion on the matter, and will happily march to the tune of whoever rolls up on them with force. Take Mr. Rational for example.

The few that actually really, really are mortally invested in murdering infant human beings? We'll see whether they squish or crunch, but they'll be killed by the victors regardless, even if just to virtue signal against the most obvious evil in the room.

"Notes that Atheist outnumber Southern Baptists in the Military !"

Notes that Atheists like to "claim" agnostics and undecideds against their will, even when such is STRONGLY argued against by the parties in question! Notes that even many even self-professed Atheists cannot make a coherent argument as to why they are Atheist! Notes that Atheism was rampant in Nazi Germany!

Notes that you're answering an obviously rhetorical reply with logic based on poor evidence!

"The assumption that we can return to an economy with a high demand for labor and a vastly White majority without force is risible."

I don't think many of us think that. Maybe you're confusing us with the civic nationalists?

"As for our Black countrymen like it or not some Black folk have been here longer than White newcomers , wanting to make an exception for them isn't cucky"

I'm not sure why you're telling me this, maybe rant at someone somewhere who actually disagrees with you? This sort of thing is exactly why we think the US is going to balkanize and split.

"No idea how anyone is going to achieve that if they are stuck on Ayn Rand."

Because "objectivism" (read: solipsism) isn't an extinct line of thought that no one here is following.

"Well of you could kill a lot of useless eaters, let them die in which case many babies will die and I have trouble seeing why you care about abortions not on your side"

It's almost like this has been answered umpteen times, but you just couldn't be bothered to read comments completely before replying.

"As bad as he is for the optics, Spencer and his cronies at least have ideas, albeit bad ones on those grounds, The Alt Right may want to find good ones of its own that aren't leftist"

Are you f***ing sh***ing me? Do you even read Vox Popoli bro? It's like you just showed up to shill on this topic and aren't a regular reader at all, like you've got no conception whatsoever what you're talking about.

Perhaps you should take some time to edumacate yourself.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2017 2:20 AM  

And yes, I've seen you here a fair amount before, AB. Prosper, which makes your apparent total lack of knowledge of ALL of the non-Fake-Right ideas being propitiated around here all the more puzzling. Heck, even the 16 points fall into that category, and Vox has them all over the side of the right side of the blog homepage!

Alternative to abortion? Cut off funding to "unfortunates" who are that way by choice rather than freak accident. Stop "philanthropists" from slaughtering their countrymens' sheep to serve to foreign "visitors" while hoarding their own. These two things alone would eliminate quite a chunk of the problems within one generation, and would make proceeding steps all the easier. Murder child-support in its crib rather than children in their wombs. Make shotgun weddings great again! (Then, bonus! You won't need nearly as many of them after a handful of years!)

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 02, 2017 2:33 AM  

167. tublecane November 02, 2017 12:48 AM
Moreso because she's a woman. We let them get away with murder, literally.



yes, i know that we permit everything to the Little Princesses.

i was simply highlighting the absurdity of his position for him. it's either a crime or not. it's either a moral evil or not.

you do need to rub WhiteKnight's noses in the shit the leave on the floor every once in a while, you know?


168. Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 12:48 AM
Had we had an even more eugenic national policy, BHO would not have been elected.


even if i stipulate that your eugenics farm is the only way to accomplish this ( which i have already demonstrated is not true )
...
you are aware that Blacks are already the THIRD largest demographic in the country, yes?

Blacks are the most significant crime problem, true.

but the primary voting problem is the legal / illegal Mexicans, who are now something like 15% of the population. they passed up the Porch Monkeys several years ago.

even if we completely eliminated the Black population ( by whatever means ), you would only be pushing the ~90% voting Democrat problem back by a couple of decades. you didn't solve the problem.

iirc, the Hispanics don't vote in quite the lockstep pattern that Blacks do but it wouldn't surprise me if they wind up voting in higher percentages overall.


169. Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 12:54 AM
It's my understanding that there were NO anti-abortion laws



why would you have laws against a procedure that wasn't even viable until the advent of sterilization, remote probes / cameras and anti-bacterial drugs?

prior to the early 1900s the only practical way to get an abortion was ingestion of some sort of drug or poison. inviting someone to stick knives up your uterus was an excellent way for a woman to commit suicide and prior to antibiotics, getting an abortion was a leading cause of death for women.

good point on refuting his claim that 70 iq people can't "follow" though. Shaka Zulu never seemed to have a problem.


169. Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 12:54 AM
You mean you are unable to come up with your own meaning.


by which you mean that all meaning is Subjective.

and thus, you have no means of discoursing with others who choose to attach different valuations than you do.


169. Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 12:54 AM
White people like Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman and Dave Brubek make the best jazz. Oh, and Ludwig von Beethoven created ragtime/jazz music.


*shrugs*

apart from the odd crossover hit i don't care for Jazz, especially the modern New Age noodling crap.

whether Jazz originated from the popular WeWuzKangz theory or whether it's actually YT people music culturally appropriated by jigaboos is irrelevant to me.


oh look, Subjective valuation!



Blogger tublecane November 02, 2017 3:10 AM  

@175-"even when such is STRONGLY argued against by the parties in question [i.e. agnostics and undecideds]!"

Speaking as an unbeliever, I don't mind being called an atheist, though my position would be best described as agnostic. "Atheist" is fine by me, because I literally have no God. Not because I definitely know there isn't one, but because I don't know there is and lack faith.

Which I realize goes against current usage. "Atheism" has come to mean active disbelief. My disbelief isn't active. It just sort of hangs out on the front porch in a swing chair, drinking lemonade.

Blogger tublecane November 02, 2017 3:27 AM  

@169-That Beethoven piece is cute. More boogie-woogie than jazz, though who knows where the lines are drawn?

Everyone knows black people culturally appropriated the Western tonal system and Western instruments. But if you take that for granted, within the context of American popular music jazz is a black thang in origin. Developed away from prying white eyes out of blues/ragtime (which in turn came from black folk/pop roots) on the streets and in their dirty bars, clubs, juke joints, barrel houses, honky tonks, etc.

White people play it well. Better, maybe. They certainly make better composers, if not players.

Blogger tublecane November 02, 2017 3:44 AM  

By the way, what's happening with Beethoven there, genres like jazz are very loosely defined by most people. Not if you're a musicologist, but to a layman, you hear swing-like syncopation, and you think jazz. Beethoven syncopates, so he's jazzy. Because that's one of the main elements, and there aren't many others. Just the blue note, polyrhythm, call-and-response, and improvisation. The last of which Beethoven definitely lacks, but whatever.

Rock and roll, too, has a loose definition. It's more about feel. We can say where it came from: rhythm and blues, country, gospel, boogie-woogie, etc. But what is it, exactly? Again, if you're not a musicologist.

Dance music in blues time with a hard backbeat. That's about it, unless you want to specify instruments. I'm sure precursors to rock can be found in classical music. Doesn't take much.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf November 02, 2017 4:02 AM  

@ 168. Mr. Rational
Meng Greenleaf wrote:
I'd only add that an Ethical argument could be mounted regarding the morality of harming a human who is not conscious.

Mr. Rational wrote:
That's assuming your conclusion. In most cases of abortion, the fetus is not CAPABLE of consciousness.
1)
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I am aware I was begging the question, however, that's not illogical is it? But perhaps I'm making a mistake somewhere?

By modus ponens:

P1. If a healthy embryo will eventually gain sentience then it's life is sacrosanct (T)
P2. This embryo is healthy (T)
C1: It's life is sacrosanct (T)

P1: If one purposely terminates another life without consent then one's actions are immoral (T)
P2. A life was purposely terminated without consent (T)
C1: The action was immoral (T)

If you agree that the premises have a truth-value of T, then the conclusion follows. Yes, it's begging the question, but that's not a formal fallacy. Correct?

While I cannot say if we agree to the soundness of the premises, the argument itself is valid. Thus, if the premises are true, then the conclusions must be true as well.

That aside, my point was that for an agent not currently in a state of consciousness, but in all likelihood will gain consciousness at some point in the future, ending said agent's life is immoral. An example could be a person in deep meditation, in deep sleep, under anesthesia, or drugged. By analogy, it seems reasonable a state of neurodevelopment contains said time variable. In time, the person awakens, catabolizes the drugs, or develops a functioning brain.

In my mind, the argument seems reasonable. That said, I'm not all that interested in the argument. I am interested in the usefulness of the logic. Is it useful to frame arguments in MP? Or is this something that is only really useful for law and programming, mathematics, etc...

2)
If you don't mind me asking: What are the commands you used to quote a response?

Kind regards

Anonymous RabidRatel November 02, 2017 5:43 AM  

Meng Greenleaf wrote:
2)
If you don't mind me asking: What are the commands you used to quote a response?

Kind regards


If you hover your mouse over the name of the person you wish to reply to, you will see "please click to make replies great again".
Click on the phrase, and the whole of his conversation will be highlighted. Simply select the portion you wish to quote, and copy/paste to the comment window. This will copy the text together with the reference just as it was quoted here.

For other ways of highlighting etc., most html tags work in the comment box.

Blogger Patrikbc November 02, 2017 7:39 AM  

SOMEONE must bleed and die for us to survive. Which will it be?

I volunteer you as tribute!

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 9:40 AM  

@143 "abortion today is not a race segregated issue."

I agree! And UNTIL we get OUR race, our tribe, our NATION back, on the land OUR forebears (or, at least, MY forebears BUILT this country on) -- we CANNOT do anything about it! And that involves winning the war! (And as AB Prosper (tip o' the hat; thanks @138) wrote:

The nation that the .Alt Right wants is going to require millions and millions of deaths, maybe tens or hundreds of millions of expulsions and worse.

People who aren't born, aren't going suffer and every enemy unborn lowers the risk profile for our side. One less soldier.



@143 This is not how you'll win this war. Whites are being destroyed from within, through treason, not by being overwhelmed from without.

This is EXACTLY how we're going to win the war! KILL our enemies! There is no way to win a war that does NOT involved killing your enemies (at LEAST enough of them to get them to quit fighting you, yes? You understand the purpose of killing in war?) -- and, alas, that always entails losing some of your OWN people. (You don't REALLY think we can win this war without our own losses do you?!)

So, killing off the "nits" WITHIN is necessary, and a "consummation devoutly to be desired" in order to win the war! And "killing off nits" necessarily INCLUDES killing off some of our tribe's babies. Sorry, that is eternal truth! (If this has been your experience, of losing your potential child because of a White woman's pathology, I am very sorry for your loss. Until we can regain control of our country -- you cannot fix such pathology; nor control it, nor outlaw it or whatever. UNTIL WE WIN, there will be painful losses. Do NOT interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake, killing HIS nits!)


@143 even if blacks "are not even the same subspecies", that doesn't mean they are our enemies and we have to get rid of them. Cows are not the same subspecies and we coexist just fine.

*COWS* are not raping, torturing, and murdering OUR people! (Everywhere on the PLANET! There is no place where africans live that does not end up africa! How can you not see that?! (And I'm sorry, Al from Bayshore -- I would not willingly 'kick' you -- but my vitriol against your race is warranted, even if you are an exception and it's not warranted towards you.)(My black brother-in-law is sort-of an exception, and he, TOO, "must go back"! And my sister must make her choice: go with him or stay with her White tribe. She, I expect, (Gandhian pacifist idiots, both!) will go with him.)

COWS are also entirely under OUR control! They are a prey animal for OUR species.

If you think blacks-as-a-race are NOT our enemies, then you are still asleep. WAKE UP!

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 9:53 AM  

(Yes, sometimes I DO sound like a vicious killer. No, it's not actually pathological, although it may seem so to men).

Women, unlike men, do NOT have the 'if he surrenders, if he bares his throat; the fighting is over." WOMEN will continue to rip and tear and stomp on the bloody remains till someone ELSE stops them or they run out of energy. A male wolf -- if his opponent rolls over doesn't have think consciously, "oh, the fight is over. I'll quit." His opponent bares his throat -- the winning wolf stops, instantly.

We women don't have that. Plus, WE are prey animals in ways that men do not and apparently cannot comprehend! I used to describe myself -- and it still applies all-too-often -- as a fear-biter! (You've seen dogs like that: not confident, dangerous because they bite unreasonably: for a dog.)

Because we are prey animals, because we cannot / could not historically and prehistorically 'defend' ourselves against ALL predators, including men, we have an unreasoning ('hysterical') "fight to the death" ... system ... built in.

When my husband was alive, I was WAY less vitriolic; I *felt* way safer. I KNEW he would protect me to his death. I 'belonged' tot eh strongest man I knew, so I was as safe as I could arrange. He died, alas. I am now always conscious that I am on my own, in a world full of violent predators - and while I can generally rely on men - especially White men -- to protect me merely BECAUSE they are White men; they are not always around.

You men who look askance at "Crazy Av" -- ask your wife: is there EVER a time when she thinks about going out to the end of the driveway at night to check the mailbox WITHOUT thinking of her safety? (If she is willfully blind to reality, maybe she does walk blindly through the world... I don't recommend it.) Do you not prepare your daughters to be conscious and "never do stupid things, never hang out with stupid people and never go stupid places" as Mas Ayoob teaches?

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 9:55 AM  

@144 "Yea, we're shooting for White Sharia."

Guess that explains your name.

Blogger S1AL November 02, 2017 9:55 AM  

"If you think blacks-as-a-race are NOT our enemies, then you are still asleep. WAKE UP!"

You still aren't seeing it, are you?

Replace 'blacks-as-a-race' with something else. Like, say, atheists. Or socialists. Or people who support legal abortion. All of whom have, collectively, done vastly more harm to this country and the world than blacks.

Capisce?

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 9:57 AM  

@150 ""You believe St Breivik was wrong then?"
How many black babies did Breivik kill? Last time I checked, the answer was zero."

You may be to short for this ride. St Breivik killed HIS ENEMIES in pupal or larval form. Can you not draw the connection?

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 10:05 AM  

@156 .... everything you wrote!

So, your plan is "I surrender to my enemies without a fight, to those who may kill me and dispose of my family as they wish, because of how *I* interpret God's word"?

Your whole 'message' is "Av is atheist and BAD for wanting to protect her (extended, genetic) family. *I* am good and godly because I will not fight against our destruction."


1. You have precisely zero reason for any belief or feeling that people are meaningfully different from people, or from animals.
2. In point of fact, according to your belief people ARE a variety of animals.


1. Not true. Are you completely uneducated about the differences between the various peoples?
2. Absolutely biologically true. Are you completely uneducated about DNA?

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 10:08 AM  

@157 You, on the other hand, have absolutely no basis to say

Thank you for providing your opinion. I reject it.

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 10:11 AM  

@161 {Asian men} are not speaking fantasy, either. They do suffer from a certain bias against them by women in general in the US.

So, they must go home as must THEIR women!

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 10:26 AM  

@163 That, at least, we can certainly agree on.

The reasoning is this: if you make it easy, convenient, and expected for people to kill their own children - for whom they should feel love, affection and protectiveness - then you make it easier for them to kill those who are not their families.


They **should** indeed feel love affection and protectiveness towards children, like Whites do -- so, EXPLAIN the butchery they commit (planet-wide!), the raping of INFANTS to 'fix' AIDS, the killing of albino children for "medicines", the abandonment, negligence, carelessness they DISPLAY towards their offspring, even here in America. (No, of COURSE not all: WAY more than enough, though!) Surely you don't hold that africans 'learned' to easily kill others only FROM an American law from the 1960s?! How, then, do you explain the africans in EVERY other country on the planet -- even those with very strict abortion laws?!

There is a reason blacks are the biggest 'user' to the abortion system. There is a REASON they are the most likely to murder ... EVERYONE else! And it's NOT because abortion was made legal in the U.S. in the '60s!


If one places no value on one's own flesh and blood, then how much less value will one place on the flesh and blood of another?

If one's race STARTS with a tribal willingness to kill -- or hack off hands with machetes, or "necklace" other tribes, or sell them off as slaves, or kill them and eat them if they're pygmies... how you do attribute these somehow to abortion in America?!

So, those who encourage abortion in members of other races, are encouraging in them a mindset that values no life at all - not their own and not their neighbors.

Oof. Pollyanna! Horse, cart? Try to figure out the correct order!


This means that it will be very easy for them to kill you for any or no reason. Which is what we see.

When abortion was 100% illegal all across the U.S. -- do you think there was no murder?!


If, on the other hand, you encourage them

you really don't KNOW many blacks, do you?


then it will be more difficult for them to make the decision to kill you.

'cause apparently you feel (cause it ain't thinkin'!) they can REASON like we do! Because America allowed abortion starting the '60s -- therefore blacks became the raping, torturing, murdering people they are and HAVE BEEN across the planet for hundreds of years?! Wow. So, time travel, too?


They will only kill you if they think you present an existential threat to them and theirs, not because they were bored.

Yup, you've never met any.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit November 02, 2017 10:26 AM  

Interesting comments section. Vox Day may owe Mr. Driscoll an apology on the lying count.

Blogger Dire Badger November 02, 2017 10:29 AM  

Never Argue with a woman. It's a huge waste of time, annoys you both, she will NEVER understand what you are telling her, and she's the only one that is likely to enjoy it.

That's why spankings were invented.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2017 10:31 AM  

@186. Avalanche, yes, we're aware that the weaker are the more vicious, and logically so!

"So, your plan is "I surrender to my enemies without a fight, to those who may kill me and dispose of my family as they wish, because of how *I* interpret God's word"?"

You're FAR too short for this ride. Do you seriously expect me to go along with you making a totally absurd straw-man of me for you to attack? Do you expect to distract me with the absurdity and escape? Get used to disappointment.

You've still yet to provide a single solid argument for your case, or even to admit to the actual logic, which I have so clearly outlined, behind it.

"Your whole 'message' is "Av is atheist and BAD for wanting to protect her (extended, genetic) family. *I* am good and godly because I will not fight against our destruction."

Bullshit. Ad Hominem. Strawman. I'm saying that under the Atheist system of belief, beneath all the cultural-christian bullshit, you neither have nor need nor shall use logic to do what you desire, so don't pretend to be logical.

I'm saying you're thinking about increasingly evil actions because you have no moral compass and can have no moral compass. This has precisely nothing to do with me, let alone the absurd and false shameless lie that I would or will not fight for the survival of me and mine.

"Not true. Are you completely uneducated about the differences between the various peoples?"

Hardly. I'm saying that from the hardline logical perspective they are not meaningfully different under your ideology. You have literally no logical reason to say that greater intelligence, greater problem solving ability, or greater introspective ability have any meaning whatsoever under your belief system. You think those things because you need a rationalization for your arrogance in placing yourself inseparably above other animals, a feeling that actually emanates from your cultural christianity, NOT because it is logical according to your basic faith.

This is a solipsistic wormhole. Your motivation is totally circular, centered around yourself/your feels. You can endlessly retreat around your circular, tautological, actually-feels-based logic without ever either turning inward to look at what's truly inside you or outward to see what's actually outside.

"Absolutely biologically true. Are you completely uneducated about DNA?"

Why does DNA matter? Because it makes you taller/shorter/larger/faster/smarter/stronger/et-cetera-ad-infinitum? Why do those things matter? Because you FEEL like they do? Because they'll help you survive and you like the FEEL of continuing to live? Because they'll help what you perceive as your race to survive and you like the FEEL of the warm fuzzies of leaving some sort of legacy as a stand-in for immortality you can't have, and indeed have actually abandoned the most logical materialistic versions of (children of your own)?

It's all based on your feels. Admit it, and THEN maybe we can take this discussion somewhere meaningful, instead of me chasing you around the ideological mo-berry bush while you try to distract me with handfuls of absurd strawmen and legitimize yourself with more circles around increasingly smaller mo-berry bushes.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 02, 2017 10:37 AM  

"Thank you for providing your opinion. I reject it."

Cute, but it was an argument. Where's yours?

"Vox Day may owe Mr. Driscoll an apology on the lying count."

Cute absurd lie, but then, that's the norm for you, right? Yes, Day was absolutely correct. Abortion is a logical proceed of Atheism rather than the Alt-Right, as you can plainly see in this comment section if you bothered to read it rather than just skip to the lying that makes you oh so happy.

@195. Dire Badger, probably an extremely salient point. Probably also why certain parties are so mortified about their delusional "white shariah" putting them in their places.

Anonymous Avalanche November 02, 2017 10:45 AM  

@168 "and domestic violence and family law in general are wildly imbalanced. Because women are so, so precious."

Yes and UNTIL WE GET OUR NATION BACK, these travesties will continue to be the case! "Moderation in defense of our nation" is going to be unsuccessful.

Even though I hate it (for myself) I ACKNOWLEDGE, support, and am working towards that future for my people. I have agreed for twenty years that women should not have the vote; although I sometimes just HAVE to cuck out and say: "well, except maybe for women who own property or a company." Cause I own a house and a manufacturing biz. But, while I might trust myself with a vote -- and doggone him -- Vox Day, my Supreme Dark Lord, is ... herding me ... towards, "no, not even me" -- there is no question that even most property-owning women need to be disenfranchised.)(I ain't happy about it, but it's reality.)

White sharia is out. Too many women are armed and educated (however pathologically). The education of women to return them to their senses will be needful. (You CAN'T just lock 'em in the house!) Yes, women CAN be made normal, but it ain't easy! I'm an example -- however unsuccessful y'all think it has been in my case: I used to be a bitter shrill angry feminist; no weird-colored hair but that wasn't done back then!)

Women ARE precious! And when (White) men 'set down' their protection of (White) women, -- well, we're back to the fear-biter thing! If we cannot rely on men to protect us, then the State will have to do!

And then tie-in the PUA thing so many of you seem to support. WHY should any semi-reasoning women (yeah yeah, I know, that may be as close as we get {G}): WAY too many men are supporting the further pathologizing of White women because it gets them cheap sex. Do you just want to screw -- or try to recover your nation?! what if it's your daughter? Y'all okay with PUAs then?

Anger at women should NOT be allowed to cloud your planning for how to get where we need to go. Women's (innate) ability to 'fit into' their milieu, to take on (((their))) society's (((values))), is a STRENGTH in an All-White country / nation. It's a horrific weakness and destructive (((entry))) into our nation when outsiders are allowed to mess-about with our society.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass November 02, 2017 10:46 AM  

Avalanche wrote:(Yes, sometimes I DO sound like a vicious killer. No, it's not actually pathological, although it may seem so to men).

Women, unlike men, do NOT have the 'if he surrenders, if he bares his throat; the fighting is over." WOMEN will continue to rip and tear and stomp on the bloody remains till someone ELSE stops them or they run out of energy. A male wolf -- if his opponent rolls over doesn't have think consciously, "oh, the fight is over. I'll quit." His opponent bares his throat -- the winning wolf stops, instantly.

We women don't have that. Plus, WE are prey animals in ways that men do not and apparently cannot comprehend! I used to describe myself -- and it still applies all-too-often -- as a fear-biter! (You've seen dogs like that: not confident, dangerous because they bite unreasonably: for a dog.)

Because we are prey animals, because we cannot / could not historically and prehistorically 'defend' ourselves against ALL predators, including men, we have an unreasoning ('hysterical') "fight to the death" ... system ... built in.

When my husband was alive, I was WAY less vitriolic; I *felt* way safer. I KNEW he would protect me to his death. I 'belonged' tot eh strongest man I knew, so I was as safe as I could arrange. He died, alas. I am now always conscious that I am on my own, in a world full of violent predators - and while I can generally rely on men - especially White men -- to protect me merely BECAUSE they are White men; they are not always around.

You men who look askance at "Crazy Av" -- ask your wife: is there EVER a time when she thinks about going out to the end of the driveway at night to check the mailbox WITHOUT thinking of her safety? (If she is willfully blind to reality, maybe she does walk blindly through the world... I don't recommend it.) Do you not prepare your daughters to be conscious and "never do stupid things, never hang out with stupid people and never go stupid places" as Mas Ayoob teaches?


The solution to what is, at its root cause, your insecurity is simple: remarry.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) November 02, 2017 10:46 AM  

Avalanche, do you have children?

1 – 200 of 277 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts