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Wednesday, November 22, 2017

Fake Americans, fake solutions

This article by an early Fake American conclusively proves the power of identity politics even as he attempts to "solve" the problem of them.
The beginnings of identity politics can be traced to 1973, the year the first volume of Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago—a book that demolished any pretense of communism’s moral authority—was published in the West. The ideological challenge of socialism was fading, its fighting spirit dwindling. This presented a challenge for the Left: how to carry on the fight against capitalism when its major ideological alternative was no longer viable?
No, the beginning of identity politics in the United States can be traced to the mass immigration of Italians and Irish back in the 1800s. But as students of Roman and Byzantine history know, mass immigration and the identity politics that follow from it long precede the existence of the United States.
In 2004, Harvard political scientist Samuel Huntington published Who Are We? Huntington examined the stunning immigration, both legal and illegal, from Mexico and argued that it was undermining longstanding notions of American national identity. America, Huntington said, has both a creed and a culture. The creed is formulated in the founding documents of our nation and in the speeches of Abraham Lincoln. The culture derives from the Anglo-Protestant settlers who first peopled North America. Huntington worried about a “hispanicization” of American culture. This book was controversial, to say the least. Nor was it without weaknesses. It is hard for this descendant of Irish and Italian immigrants to accept the notion that America’s culture is monolithically Anglo-Protestant.
Every single time. And why would it be hard for Mr. Continetti to accept a basic fact of American history? Because his name is Continetti. The amusing thing is that he would probably angrily deny my claim to be a true blue Italian despite the fact that by his own illogic, I am more genuinely Italian than he is. Those who deny identity politics while clinging to their own identities will inevitably descend into self-parody sooner or later.
Identity politics is a veneer over the class politics that truly defines our society, and education is the best prism through which to view class in America today. 
Ironic, that a self-styled conservative would turn to a Marxian analysis in order to deny the identity politics that give him feelbads. Conservatives really have become yesterday's liberals. Identity politics is not a veneer. It is the inevitable consequence of rival identities. Note that in Singapore, the leadership began consciously managing identity politics and to characterize Singaporeans by citizenship rather than national identity because its population was only 75 percent Chinese, (13.7 Malay, 8.7 Indian, 2.6 various), a percentage they felt to be too low to support genuine nationalism.
To combat identity politics, we must emphasize an American nationalism based on both a commitment to the ideals of the American Founding and a shared love of our national history and culture—a history and culture of individual freedom and religious pluralism, resistant to centralized authority and ever expanding into new frontiers and new possibilities.
Who is this "we", kemosabe? How is this fake nationalism going to survive when it is based on a commitment that no one has to actually make and a love that is never going to be measured or held accountable? Will those who refuse to commit or simply don't possess the love be stripped of their paper nationality and expelled? If not, then this is just more high-minded Fake American blather meant to disguise the fact that while they are citizens of the same multinational imperial state, neither they nor their ancestors were ever truly Americans.

UPDATE: So much for propositional conservatism. He has to go back.
The GOP tax bill's bringing out my inner socialist. The sex scandals are bringing out my inner feminist. Donald Trump and Roy Moore are bringing out my inner liberal. WHAT IS HAPPENING?

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149 Comments:

Blogger Koanic November 22, 2017 4:31 AM  

I for one applaud Conservatism's commitment to exile for heretical thought. All civic nationalism requires to function is the abolition of privacy and the intrusion of inquisitorial AI into every mind! The NSA is a fine start. But let's grab the low-hanging fruit first by hanging all the Democrats.

We'll only get a few before the rest self-deport, which will balance the welfare budget. A proposal that pays for itself!

Blogger L' Aristokrato November 22, 2017 4:38 AM  

You should set up a few debates with defenders of civic nationalism.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 22, 2017 4:41 AM  

Enlightenment-derived high fantasy as Political Philosophy really is a fascinating study in unintentional self-parody. Though is just strikes the outside observer as being stupid, as they simply aren't being honest with any introspection.

We constantly hit the Left for being unable to put 2 & 2 together to get 4 because they believe in fantasy as reality, so it's nice that "Conservative, Inc" has finally come out a full-scale Leftists.

Also, in classic SJW-style, Continetti also tells us he has a class issue with the rest of the country. That's always been the Conservative, Inc's issue with everyone else. I await the National Review fashion issue proclaiming, "Why can't everyone just wear tweed, damn it?"

Blogger Harry Goldblatt MD November 22, 2017 4:48 AM  

Matt Continetti can be proud of his bootlegger and mafioso ancestors.

Blogger Koanic November 22, 2017 4:48 AM  

Bugman Incontinetti wets himself at the thought of white nationalism. Coalition-builders should promise his ilk a Soyboy Estro-state in Greenland.

Blogger Sherwood family November 22, 2017 4:57 AM  

Exactly. Unless we are willing to a) strictly define the "American Creed" and b) excommunicate those who apostatize from it through their promulgation of "heresy" we cannot have this vaunted civic nationalism/proposition nation everyone seems to want. But nobody seems to eager to sign up for that for some reason.

Anonymous lurker November 22, 2017 4:58 AM  

"Note that in Singapore, the leadership began consciously managing identity politics and to characterize Singaporeans by citizenship rather than national identity because its population was only 75 percent Chinese, (13.7 Malay, 8.7 Indian, 2.6 various), a percentage they felt to be too low to support genuine nationalism"

So is that another case of Asians copying Americans?

Blogger Wanderer November 22, 2017 4:59 AM  

The majority of the alt-right in North America believe in a generic pan-European white nationalism anyway, so this wop has nothing to be nervous about unless he's really swarthy and can't pass for generic white.

Blogger Akulkis November 22, 2017 5:04 AM  

I subscribe to Imprimis. Looks like I need to send a letter to the editor.

Anonymous lurker November 22, 2017 5:09 AM  

"I subscribe to Imprimis. Looks like I need to send a letter to the editor."

*sigh* Same here, supporter also. Looks like I am also going to have to write them and tell them to step up their game if Vox Day can show up out of the blue and destroy one of their articles.

Anonymous lurker November 22, 2017 5:17 AM  

Speaking of identity politics, here's another good example...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-rnc-chair-trumps-comments-on-roy-moore-beyond-stupid/ar-BBFsW32?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Anonymous Bertram November 22, 2017 5:28 AM  

Wait, I thought Vox was a Siberian-American. When did he become an Anglo-Protestant? Are we able to pick and choose what part of our ancestry we like for a given argument?

Anonymous Don't rely on VD, ever November 22, 2017 5:44 AM  

VD was a Mexican-American.

Among other things.

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 5:46 AM  

You should set up a few debates with defenders of civic nationalism.

No civic nationalist of any note wants to debate me any more than any noted atheist does. No one wants to endure the public humiliation. And I have no desire to humiliate them either. I understand why they are trapped in their false ideology and I am not without sympathy. But that doesn't mean I won't tear them apart if it comes to an actual debate.

Many of my critics make the fatal mistake of assuming that the arguments and critiques I post here every day, usually without any research or serious contemplation, are the best I can present. But that is almost never the case.

When did he become an Anglo-Protestant? Are we able to pick and choose what part of our ancestry we like for a given argument?

Obviously at some point before my paternal ancestor was Clerk of the Court for Queen Elizabeth. Read the post again. My criticism of this hapless article has nothing to do with me or my ancestry. I am not prone to committing the Genetic Fallacy or arguing for the setting of the interest rate on the basis of my home mortgage.

Blogger Desillusionerad November 22, 2017 5:48 AM  

Regardless of the merits of civic nationalism, can't he for the love of God realise that the left isn't going to stop with identity politics because he asked nicely - and at that point the merits of civic nationalism doesn't matter.

Anonymous TS November 22, 2017 5:59 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMzJ5Z7zBw

Blogger Groggy November 22, 2017 6:02 AM  

Nor was it without weaknesses. It is hard for this descendant of Irish and Italian immigrants to accept the notion that America’s culture is monolithically Anglo-Protestant.

This type of mentality is stunning. It is jaw-dropping.

He finds it 'hard' to accept historical facts which are utterly obvious -> this implies a 'weakness' of the book! His own utterly irrational emotional discomfort is the evidence which he posits for the book being weak.

AMAZING!

What about meeeeeeeeeeee and myyyyyyyyy particular family treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee? They were the founding culture of the country they migrated to recently, sort of!!!!! Weren't they!!??? Weren't theyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

It's fucking childish! This Continetti has the thought process of a toddler.

Blogger Groggy November 22, 2017 6:08 AM  

Every single time. And why would it be hard for Mr. Continetti to accept a basic fact of American history? Because his name is Continetti.

I wonder if we could send this information back through time to show them this sort of a travesty, whether the people who opened up the borders to immigration would have made a different decision.

Continetti is delusional. He wants to be founding stock, but instead he's from the huddled masses and he doesn't have the personal humility to absorb the information. He needs to aggrandise his lineage and if history needs to be re-written to suit his preference, well that's no problem at all.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 6:09 AM  

Communism's moral pretenses were demolished in 1973? Like, no one ever heard of any bad stuff before the Gulag Archipelago? Seriously?

As if beforehand, pinkos and fellow-travellers could say, "Purges, famines, Katyn? What're those?" But some book, then suddenly it was all over.

Blogger The Kurgan November 22, 2017 6:15 AM  

Stupid half wop/half Irish!
It's is absolutely OBVIOUS that Americans are (or we're) very much the product of Anglo-Protestantism culturally.

I'd say they took it to a new and quite American level in fact.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 6:18 AM  

@17-Part of the reason why it's hard to accept is because America's cultural heritage is lost in the mist to those without eyes to see. There's been a concerted effort to dig out everything deeply rooted, leaving only what fits a culture of global interchangeable consumption units.

It isn't very hard to piece together what's leftover comes mostly from the Mother Country. Easier than, for instance, finding German culture in this country, which has been well-buried for obvious reasons. But you have to look. You have to want to look, because no one's forcing you. In fact, you're actively discouraged from looking.

Blogger Groggy November 22, 2017 6:19 AM  

Nor was it without weaknesses. It is hard for this descendant of Irish and Italian immigrants to accept the notion that America’s culture is monolithically Anglo-Protestant.

In a way these Fake Americans are worse than those from truly alien cultures, e.g. the Chinese.

At least you don't have Chinese descendants claiming that they are the founding stock. (At least, not yet... I shouldn't give them ideas)

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 6:20 AM  

Continetti is delusional. He wants to be founding stock, but instead he's from the huddled masses and he doesn't have the personal humility to absorb the information.

One of the fascinating things about the failure of conservatism and civic nationalism is the way it reveals conservatives to be every bit as delusional, emotional, and irrational as they once observed liberals and progressives to be, only about different things.

Blogger Longtime Lurker November 22, 2017 6:23 AM  

"The beginnings of identity politics can be traced to 1973."

Who is Continetti trying to fool? Himself?

Identity politics can be traced to the dawn of man.

Blogger Lucas November 22, 2017 6:24 AM  

For a long time I wondered why VD believed (correctly) that Italian and Irish invasion of the USA ruined American culture (or at least, changed it beyond what was the interesses of the Anglo-Protestant founding fathers).

I don't wonder anymore.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 6:26 AM  

Does it bother anyone else that the "creed" or implied creed, found in the founding documents and the creed found in Lincoln's speeches contradict eachother? I think Lincoln went about to deliberately upturn the founding's meaning. In any case, his "new birth of freedom" was a second, separate founding.

Since Lincoln, our national creed must have changed a half-billion times. That's the problem with Proposition Nations. Political propositions can act like Will-o'-the-wisp.

Blogger JACIII November 22, 2017 6:27 AM  

2 parts stiff necked Englishmen. 1 Part Protestant. 1 Part private land ownership and loads of personal autonomy. Simmer for 50 years. Stir up the blood thirsty indians occasionally.

If you want to be charitable, just figure that was Continetti's Thankgiving puff piece.

Blogger Lucas November 22, 2017 6:27 AM  

"One of the fascinating things about the failure of conservatism and civic nationalism is the way it reveals conservatives to be every bit as delusional, emotional, and irrational as they once observed liberals and progressives to be"

I have noticed this too. And usually it happens when they start to realize that the facts don't conform their beliefs.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 6:29 AM  

@24-He probably qualify it with "modern identity politics" or identity politics in their current form. But anyone who tries to tell me FDR, for instance, wasn't practicing identity politics comparable to today's oughtta know better or keep quiet.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 6:32 AM  

@28-"usually it happens when they start to realize that the facts don't comform their beliefs"

Probably becauses that causes textbook cognitive dissonance.

Blogger wreckage November 22, 2017 6:33 AM  

He gets so, so close. All he has to do is admit he actually values the anglo-protestant culture and heritage. It's not that bloody hard to do, said the 75% Celt!

Would any anglo-protestant living in Italy say "Sorry, but being anglo-protestant, I just can't stomach the notion that what I love about Italy is in some way created by Italians. No, no; that would be unthinkable."

Just... what the hell is it with people and their refusal to admit to any inherent worth whatsoever to the anglos??

Blogger JACIII November 22, 2017 6:35 AM  

I think folks could sense the USA getting uncomfortable to Americans. It was the great hope of the space race that we would be able to establish a new frontier - white flight from the downtown planet to the suburban solar system. Affirmative action hires don't last long in dangerous environments.

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 6:36 AM  

"In multiracial societies, you don't vote in accordance with your economic interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion."
- Lee Kuan Yew

Notice there are no qualifiers there. All politics are identity politics in a heterogeneous society.

Anonymous vfm November 22, 2017 6:39 AM  

"For a long time I wondered why VD believed (correctly) that Italian and Irish invasion of the USA ruined American culture (or at least, changed it beyond what was the interesses of the Anglo-Protestant founding fathers)."

Then thrown in (((their))) influence (no mass-scale invasion needed)and there you go.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 22, 2017 6:41 AM  

@18 Groggy

At this point, if the early Americans could have known what was coming, they'd have sunk the boats in the harbor upon arrival.


@23 VD

They're like actors that could play off crazier actors. The problem is that, once the Left gave up any pretense of reality, we find that the "conservatives" were only slightly less insane.


@25 Lucas

Easy answer is to blame the Jesuits, but the deeper answer is that post-Reformation Catholicism is highly monarchical. They just argue about who's supposed to be the King. (Jesuits think their fantasy papal figure should be.) Anglo-Protestant thought is about Self-Rule. While the UK has a Monarch, they've also had rule by Parliament since the 1600s. (Remember, this is actually the core aspect of the American Revolution.)

RCC cultural instincts always prevent burning the heretics that have acquired power at the stake, so things always get corrupt. Plus, Italian cultural mores have been highly corrupt for centuries. It was how they've survived, so why change? They can't really build a country well, but they'll survive and that counts for a lot.

Or maybe the litmus test for an American: Say "No King but Jesus" then cross fridge waters to kill Germans on Christmas. If you can't pull that off, you're not really getting what it means to be "American".

Blogger wreckage November 22, 2017 6:47 AM  

The Italians seem to gravitate towards a feudal-manor approach with strictly local loyalties holding sway most of the time.

It's funny, I know this guy who personality wise is alpha as heck, in a good way, but he has this streak of gamma that holds him back. Not much, but noticeably. But... it's not gamma. He's Irish descent. View him as a successful and gifted IRISH businessman and it all falls into place.

Blogger Desillusionerad November 22, 2017 6:49 AM  

Well to be fair the soviets did manage to blame Katyn on the nazis.
And of course there are still to this day 'nit real communism' ans communism was good people about.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club November 22, 2017 6:55 AM  

How can you take seriously anyone who thinks "I find it hard to accept" is an argument rather than just a whine?

His plan of action that "we must" undertake sounds like the pretentious prologue to some truly terrible Star Trek fanfic: "ever expanding into new frontiers and new possibilities"? You can almost hear the tears rolling slowly down his flushed cheeks.

Blogger Desillusionerad November 22, 2017 6:56 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Desillusionerad November 22, 2017 6:58 AM  

""In multiracial societies, you don't vote in accordance with your economic interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion."
- Lee Kuan Yew

Notice there are no qualifiers there. All politics are identity politics in a heterogeneous society. "


To be fair there is an eventually there - for a short time it won't be true, makes it a bit more dangerous actually.

Anonymous ZhukovG November 22, 2017 6:59 AM  

He wants American Nationalism without Americans. He talks about class, but his real issue is that he knows he's not American and it frightens him.

White is not a nation, but in the coming troubles it will certainly be a uniform. Out of those coming troubles a genuine American Nationalism will likely emerge. My hypothesis is that it will be Anglo/Germanic-Protestant, but time will tell.

Blogger Smokey Dust November 22, 2017 7:05 AM  

I grew up goy in a neighborhood split Jewish, Italian and Irish. None of these groups are Americans, none of have ever accepted the Anglo system of government. All they did was colonize areas of the eastern coast.

The mutts end up being closer to Americans because they are shunned by the pure bloods and go searching for an adopted culture. Still not real Americans but closer.

I get the Jews and Irish desire for large states but the Italians...shouldn’t the blood lines of the Roman republic have some programming favorable toward small government?

You would think so but then again these are the same people who thinking hopping off a boat in the 1800s is the same as settling the colonies and never bother to apologize for the Cuomos they vote in.

Anonymous Ages November 22, 2017 7:07 AM  

The Italians seem to gravitate towards a feudal-manor approach with strictly local loyalties holding sway most of the time.

That is the kind of society a lot of white nationalists want.

Blogger Groggy November 22, 2017 7:10 AM  

Anglo-Protestant thought is about Self-Rule. While the UK has a Monarch, they've also had rule by Parliament since the 1600s.

Also there was a very strong legacy of egalitarian kingship going right back to the coming of the Angles and Saxons to Roman Britannia which they renamed Aengla Land.

Source - best documentary series ever, by the way:

https://youtu.be/6wPhiIkvU04?t=7m20s
(Dr David Starkey's Monarchy)

Also at the beginning of that first episode Starkey goes into how the Anglo-Saxons ethnically cleansed the native Britons in order to create England.

It's just one more proof that identity politics goes back to the origins of man.

Blogger 罗臻 November 22, 2017 7:10 AM  

What fascinates me is how supposed conservatives and civic nationalists can't accept that America is an Anglo-Protestant nation. Assimilation, they keep using that word, but I don't think it means what they think it means.

Blogger Groggy November 22, 2017 7:16 AM  

Quote from David Starkey's Monarch Ep 1:
https://youtu.be/6wPhiIkvU04?t=8m12s

"This is the idea of government by consent, in which the leader is chosen by the people, or, at least, is answerable to them. It was an idea taken by the Anglo-Saxons from their homeland in Germany, and transplanted to their new home in England. Here it flourished and became a central part of the English political experience, with powerful echoes in Magna Carta, the Glorious Revolution and the insistence, of those Englishmen abroad, the American Revolutionaries, that they would pay no taxation without representation."

Anonymous Luke November 22, 2017 7:20 AM  

Then thrown in (((their))) influence (no mass-scale invasion needed)and there you go.

Because mad verbal IQ skills?

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 22, 2017 7:21 AM  

wreckage wrote:Just... what the hell is it with people and their refusal to admit to any inherent worth whatsoever to the anglos??

They worked very hard to get Anglos to give up their power, and their country, as a result. They can't afford to let us up off the mat; not one bit. And they know it.

They've got to keep the mind-fuck going, and they know it's very tenuous. Thus they get more and more frantic as they see the Anglo-Saxon awakening.

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 7:23 AM  

Because mad verbal IQ skills?

No. Because ruthless low-trust exploitation of a high-trust population. Watch how the Chinese will dominate them easily since they don't understand the nature of their past successes.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 22, 2017 7:30 AM  

@49 VD

Also, tactics vs strategy. I've actually been able to figure out a writer was Jewish before ever having reason to figure it out by the way they'll never think in terms of Strategy. The intra-group focus is always on tactical approaches and winning the exact thing they're doing, with extremely little consideration for the long-term ramifications.

Chinese are the complete opposite. They're thinking about their children's career paths when they're in the womb. It's night & day different, and the reason the Chinese will always beat the Jews at this game.

This also highlights what's been going on between the Diaspora and the Israelis. When you have a homeland to defend, you suddenly start thinking in much longer terms than trying to nickle & dime a deal.

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 22, 2017 7:34 AM  

Looking Glass wrote:they'll never think in terms of Strategy. The intra-group focus is always on tactical approaches and winning the exact thing they're doing, with extremely little consideration for the long-term ramifications.

That and a complete lack of self-awareness leads to the repeated pogroms.

Blogger L' Aristokrato November 22, 2017 7:34 AM  

VD wrote:You should set up a few debates with defenders of civic nationalism.

No civic nationalist of any note wants to debate me any more than any noted atheist does. No one wants to endure the public humiliation. And I have no desire to humiliate them either. I understand why they are trapped in their false ideology and I am not without sympathy. But that doesn't mean I won't tear them apart if it comes to an actual debate.

Many of my critics make the fatal mistake of assuming that the arguments and critiques I post here every day, usually without any research or serious contemplation, are the best I can present. But that is almost never the case.

When did he become an Anglo-Protestant? Are we able to pick and choose what part of our ancestry we like for a given argument?

Obviously at some point before my paternal ancestor was Clerk of the Court for Queen Elizabeth. Read the post again. My criticism of this hapless article has nothing to do with me or my ancestry. I am not prone to committing the Genetic Fallacy or arguing for the setting of the interest rate on the basis of my home mortgage.


My suggestion was not as to "I want to watch civic nationalists squirm!".
Rather, it's simply that "ideas are all that matter!!! Identity is for bigots and savages!!!" is currently the number one safe harbour for all of the dishonest and/or 'cucky' ideological positions to maintain a pretense of relevance.
Many civic nationalists are perfectly nice and smart people even. They only have not considered the issue fully, for whatever reason.
Much like "free markets are the solution!", civic nationalism needs to be dismantled; and though it will be one way or another, I still think attacking it through dismantling its advocates, perhaps even converting a few, is a very relevant endeavor.
It would be nice to see a civil debate(pun intended) with a capable opponent, if any is up for it.

Blogger Skyler the Weird November 22, 2017 7:36 AM  

The Italians and Irish are Socii. They are not True Romans.

Blogger 罗臻 November 22, 2017 7:37 AM  

Chinese are "anti-semitic" because they view Jewish domination in America as something to emulate.

Anonymous TheTruthIsNeverAcceptable November 22, 2017 7:40 AM  

tublecane wrote:Since Lincoln, our national creed must have changed a half-billion times. That's the problem with Proposition Nations. Political propositions can act like Will-o'-the-wisp.

He who has the power sets the propositions, just as he who controls the definitions controls the argument.

Anonymous prepper November 22, 2017 7:46 AM  

"Identity politics is a veneer over the class politics that truly defines our society..."

"Civilization" is just a veneer dude.

Blogger wreckage November 22, 2017 7:46 AM  

Interesting point on strategy, but I'd say it speaks for adaptive behaviour. Landless act differently to landed. Urban versus rural. I suspect the commonality is less to do with persuasion or influence than a growing commonality of landless and ultra-short-term thinking, exacerbated by minority and outgroup status.

City people cannot understand that farming can operate with a single cycle being 7 years long (or more), and simply do not believe in forestry, with cycles in excess of a century. They just can't encompass the notion of planning on that time-scale, so they ignore it.

Then they accuse everyone else of "not thinking about tomorrow".

Well, no, I'm thinking in five and ten year intervals out well beyond the end of my own life; thinking about tomorrow is done in the evening after dinner and isn't considered "planning" so much as "packing".

Anonymous TheTruthIsAlwaysUnacceptable November 22, 2017 7:47 AM  

An interesting thought for Christians to ponder. Being "Born Again" (becoming an actual believing Christian) means leaving behind your old nature, your "old man" and becoming part of a new single family, a singular people, all part of one body. If that isn't identity religion, I don't know what is.

Blogger Silly but True November 22, 2017 7:49 AM  

Americans used to know how to keep the dagoes and other immigrants in line.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/adamserwer/how-an-1891-mass-lynching-tried-to-make-america-great-again?utm_term=.woYLzEN8m#.umE7DWlog

Blogger Ransom Smith November 22, 2017 7:51 AM  

It's telling that as fake Americans journeyed into positions of power , they made the term WASP an insult.
When it's really a statement of purity.

Blogger Arthur Isaac November 22, 2017 7:53 AM  

As soon as they can get the BLM to support the installation of Robert E Lee statuary, get the guys in the NFL to stop kneeling, have La Raza wave the Stars and Stripes on Cinco and support English as the sole official language in the "United States" I'll reconsider my position.

Anonymous SAK November 22, 2017 8:03 AM  

Starkey goes into how the Anglo-Saxons ethnically cleansed the native Britons in order to create England.

Civic nationalist with their propositions do not stand athwart history, yelling: "Stop!", but join the left in pushing its grand wheel round and so, unwittingly, ensure the revolution will complete and that our gruesome past will be our terrifying, and not to far off, future.

And yet we are the 'evil' ones.

Blogger Silly but True November 22, 2017 8:07 AM  

What sounds do a group of followers of Ericco Malatesta make when you kick the chairs out from under their feet?

"Dago wop, wop, wop."

Blogger Valtarov November 22, 2017 8:10 AM  

It's some irony that the Cold Warriors advocate the idea of America as a capitalist proposition nation, seeing as they built their careers opposing an actual proposition nation. In the Soviet Union, the proposition was communism and militant atheism. Those who didn't agree with that proposition were exiled or thrown in the gulag.

The irony goes away when you realize that those who came up with the idea of America as a proposition nation were Trotskyists who were exiled from the Soviet Union under Stalin. That they either did not or could not see the American nation through any lens other than a proxy to use in their war of propositions with the Soviet Union is so telling the example makes the case for us. These people do not and never will understand American civics because they are not a part of the American ethnicity.

Blogger DonReynolds November 22, 2017 8:11 AM  

The 800 pound gorilla that lives in our living room, and takes up half the couch, was completely unmentioned.

What WAS mentioned was the fact of Anglo-Protestant origins of this great country. (That is acceptable.)

What seems to be much more difficult to discuss....calmly and rationally...is what many Irish, and Italian, (and south German) immigrants (and the modern Hispanic invaders) ALL have in common and how that conflicts and challenges what it means to be an American. More importantly, how it has already created both change and division in our society, including an unmentionable form of identity politics, throughout American history to the present.

I am sure it is only a coincidence that this discussion should be posted on November 22, the anniversary of the assassination of an Irish-American US president. Truly, a sad day for all Americans.

My Irish ancestors came to colonial America (Fairfax County, Virginia) in 1687. We are not the same Irish as the flood that arrived in the mid to late 1800s...along with the Italians and the south Germans. We are called Scot-Irish....Protestants from England and Scotland, who settled in Ireland for a century or two, before coming over to America. We were not part of the Potato Famine exodus. And the truth be told, there has been friction for several centuries between the two Irish populations. (I believe everyone in the world has already heard about that, so there is no sense in denying it.)

Most Americans who have studied history quickly assume that CSA means the Confederate States of America. But there is another CSA that operated for much longer in the US with the approval of the Federal government. This CSA was a settlement association that steered Italian, Irish, and German immigrants to select towns all across this country. Faith being important to these newcomers, they were assured that certain towns had a church and a priest to attend to their needs. They would not be cut off and isolated in a Protestant ocean if they went to these destination communities. In my state (and in Texas), it is easy to identify those population centers that were essentially created by the CSA, and they are overwhelmingly (south) German, with some Italian. The Irish must have been concentrated in other states. Boston and New York seem to be their main cities.

Blogger Silly but True November 22, 2017 8:24 AM  

Germans, Irish, and Italians went other places after arriving in New Orleans?

I guess the German arrivals were like "Look Aldo! Look at this bountiful sea. And fertile soil with corn and sugarcane. Our people can build a wonderful new life here. But Aldo was like, no Karl-Heinz. Nicht wie zu Hause! And so they moved up the river. Karl-Heinz stopped again saying Look Aldo! Look at the bountiful fields of grain! But Aldo was again, No Karl-Heinz! Nicht wie zu Hause! And so they moved one final time further north to Minnesota. Karl-Heinz looked at Aldo and said what a frigid hellhole where nothing grows! And Aldo said Mein Gott, home!"

Now I have no idea what the Somalis' excuse is.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 22, 2017 8:26 AM  

Vox, question: Is civic nationalism possible in a monarchy?

Anonymous SP November 22, 2017 8:30 AM  

"Now I have no idea what the Somalis' excuse is."

Easy. Look at all the bountiful foreigner er, um.. public assistance programs Mohammad!

Blogger Erynne November 22, 2017 8:38 AM  

This is just as good a time as any, so, how the hell haven't the commentators for this blog come up with an Indian name for VD? He's been talking about himself as a native for, what, a few years? I've never seen anyone jokingly refer to him by some native name. He holds many titles, we need to grace him with one more.

After some thinking I am able to come up with:

Wars With Mouse

Surely others can come up with something else and we can vote on what native name VD has earned for himself.

Blogger DonReynolds November 22, 2017 8:45 AM  

Laramie Hirsch wrote:Vox, question: Is civic nationalism possible in a monarchy?



Sir, I believe a very good argument could be made that the monarchies INVENTED civic nationalism....and the home of civic nationalism would certainly be the British Isles.

I believe you will find the Normans invented civic nationalism....first when they arrived in France and again when they "conquered" England. We see it too in their creation of Lombardy and their occupation of Sicily. Perhaps the Norman conquerors were the ones who perfected the civic nationalism of the Roman Empire.

This was certainly not a feature of the previous invasions of the island by the Saxons (Angles, Jutes), which is why the Welsh are still considered a separate people. Nor was it the case with the more successful Viking occupations.

William and Mary restored the monarchy to England and the royalty of England has been German Hanoveran for centuries, they only adopted the name Windsor during WWI as a public relations stunt to refute their German origins. They certainly believe in civic nationalism, just as surely as Queen Victoria before them.

In other European nations with native monarchies, and there surely are some, I suspect there is less interest in civic nationalism....since they are themselves native to those countries.

Blogger dienw November 22, 2017 8:45 AM  

It is hard for th[e] descendant[s] of Irish and Italian immigrants to accept the notion that America’s culture is monolithically Anglo-Protestant.

I recall quite clearly that when I was growing up in the fifties John Calvin was credited with discovering America - the continent, not some inconsequential island in the Caribbean; but, in the late fifties and early sixties, the Italian community overwhelmed the politicians and Columbus began to be celebrated as the explorer who discovered America; therefore, the Italians successfully undermined an important Anglo-Protestant claim to the New World. I think that the consequences of this overturning has not been sufficiently explored or understood in religious or cultural/population terms.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 22, 2017 8:54 AM  

This CONservative is a joke, he of course would not say boo to a leftist, they are all jokes.

This is mere boob bait for white men and women to be herded into the pens to be managed.

Anonymous Read1000Write1 November 22, 2017 9:11 AM  

In Singapore's case, all three ethnic groups actually benefited, as ethnic groups, from that compromise. So even the citizenship-based identity is in fact founded on enlightened ethnic self-interest. But what is possible in a population that is mostly Chinese and Indian may not be possible in America...

Blogger Silly but True November 22, 2017 9:16 AM  

I jest. But there were reasons why the first European immigrants ended up where they did. They were looking to replicate some semblance of their lives. The Germans and Dutch could make lives in areas where others weren't and because they wanted to be left alone from the conniving English - hence settling in PA rather than staying in New York. Italians settled near the coasts.

And of course the Irish went where there was alcohol.

Blogger Akulkis November 22, 2017 9:20 AM  

Regarding Confetti's assertion "identity politics started in 1973."

I guess he's never heard of the Native American Party, later renamed the American Party, also known as the Know Nothings.

Of course, not. I'm sure if his name was Callahan, he would be deriding the birth of Identity Politics as when the Know Nothings formed for the purpose of keeping out his Irish ancestors.

I myself don't have a lot of room to talk...my heritage on my father's side is Lithuanian/Ukrainian -- but my great grandfather on that side ditched the Roman Catholic Church to assimilate and joined a Baptist Church. Also prohibited his kids from speaking anything other than English outside the home. Similar story for the other great grandparents on my dad's side, except for grandma's step-mom, who refused to learn English, and spent her entire adult life in Hantramck's Polish-speaking community. She actually had my grandmother considering herself to be Polish rather than the half-Ukrainian/half-Lithuanian that she (grandma) actually was.

Blogger James Dixon November 22, 2017 9:21 AM  

> WHAT IS HAPPENING?

What is happening, Mr. Kristol, is that you're being exposed for what you always were.

> "Civilization" is just a veneer dude.

"Barbarism is the natural state of mankind," the borderer said, still staring somberly at the Cimmerian. "Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always ultimately triumph." - Robert E. Howard

> ... and simply do not believe in forestry, with cycles in excess of a century.

Just to give one example of a relatively small time frame for forestry: "Walnut trees begin producing nuts when they are about 10 years old, but the best nut production begins when trees are 30 years old" - www.extension.umn.edu/garden/yard-garden/trees-shrubs/growing-black-walnut/

Blogger Lovekraft November 22, 2017 9:24 AM  

Ontario's Wilfrid University star chamber fiasco:

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/wilfrid-laurier-universitys-president-apologizes-to-lindsay-shepherd-for-dressing-down-over-jordan-peterson-clip

I bring to your attention the name of one of the initial tyrants in this chamber:

Shepherd’s supervising professor Nathan Rambukkana

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr November 22, 2017 9:31 AM  

One big difference between the early immigrants of Wave 1 (English 1630-1660) and Wave 2 (Scots-Irish 1690-1720) and the rest...the early ones didn't have anywhere else to go. The English were on the run from religious or political persecution (English Civil War and Restoration), the Scots-Irish from the problems in Northern Ireland.

It makes a big difference.

Anonymous Avalanche November 22, 2017 9:37 AM  

@16 "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMzJ5Z7zBw"

"The United States of America, the rest of you are just visiting."

Thank you, that's just brilliant! (I don't watch movies; what movie is that, please?)

Anonymous Uncle John's Band November 22, 2017 9:38 AM  

But the universities must defend the oppressed invaders from Americans who would prefer not to be looted and dispossessed:

https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2017/11/07/tips-help-academics-respond-right-wing-attacks-essay

Notably, the "professor" of communication and rhetorical studies sprays lies with abandon.

Anonymous c matt November 22, 2017 9:54 AM  

conservatives and civic nationalists can't accept that America is an Anglo-Protestant nation

Well, was, anyway. Currently it is nothing but atheist-materialist. The founding was Anglo, but Protestant only because H VIII was horny, and Cromwell was greedy.

You would think so but then again these are the same people who thinking hopping off a boat in the 1800s is the same as settling the colonies and never bother to apologize for the Cuomos they vote in.

You seem to forget there were colonies from Florida to California settled by the Spanish before the Northeast/East coast Anglo colonies - in fact, it was an Eye talian that found this place and another that mapped it (how soon we forget). As for voting in Cuomos, they couldn't do it without a lot of help from NE White Liberal Protestants and members of the Tribe, so an apology from them is just as due.

Ironic that True American does not include those nationals from whom the name "American" derives.

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 22, 2017 9:55 AM  

Long ago, twitter brought out Kristol's inner twit.

Anonymous TS November 22, 2017 9:57 AM  

"Thank you, that's just brilliant! (I don't watch movies; what movie is that, please?)"

You're welcome. The movie is The Good Shepherd with Matt Damon as the protagonist. I don't remember much about it except the character Matt Damon was playing going around and having gratuitous sex scenes throughout the movie though it did have some interesting lines.

Anonymous Sertorius November 22, 2017 10:06 AM  

DonReynolds @65

Regarding the "Scots Irish," we Ulster Scots were practically genetically engineered to kill "mere" Irish Catholics, so yes, definitely some continuing distrust there! FWIW, be sure to pick up George MacDonald's Fraser's "The Steel Bonnets" for the historical background of the "Border reivers;" Jim Webb's "Born Fighting" is also a great introduction to the Scots Irish and their role in US history.

At any rate, VD's idee fixe with ethnic identities causes him to confuse necessary with sufficient conditions--certainly the "Ellis Island" pulse of immigration in the 19th C had its effect on American politics, but it hardly **caused** the Industrial Revolution/urbanization and the social upheavals that followed. As an example, just consider, say, Glasgow (Scotland) in the early 1900's...as Red as the UK ever got, and nary a Jew in sight.

Anonymous Avalanche November 22, 2017 10:15 AM  

@69 "so, how the hell haven't the commentators for this blog come up with an Indian name for VD?"

Because we respect him -- a term and viewpoint I'm guessing you are not familiar with?!

Vox Day HAS the "name," the TITLE, to which we hold allegiance: he is the Supreme Dark Lord of the Evil Legion of Evil -- what need has our Dark Lord for ANY other name or title?!

Blogger BassmanCO November 22, 2017 10:21 AM  

Pretty sure "Supreme Dark Lord" works as an Indian name too.

Blogger DonReynolds November 22, 2017 10:24 AM  

Napoleon 12pdr wrote:One big difference between the early immigrants of Wave 1 (English 1630-1660) and Wave 2 (Scots-Irish 1690-1720) and the rest...the early ones didn't have anywhere else to go. The English were on the run from religious or political persecution (English Civil War and Restoration), the Scots-Irish from the problems in Northern Ireland.

It makes a big difference.


There were 17 British colonies (states) in the New World....13 of those later declared their Independence. (The rest were in Canada and certain islands in the Caribbean.)

This loss prompted the British government to colonize New South Wales (Australia) in 1788, which had been claimed by Capt. Cook in 1770. During the French Revolution/Napoleonic Wars, they began to occupy parts of South Afrika from the Dutch to keep them out of French control.

The early colonies in the New World were practically suicide missions, with only a few survivors remaining after the first winter. It takes a lot of push to get ordinary people to attempt it.

Blogger Lazarus November 22, 2017 10:47 AM  

Some French intellectuals are finding a solution by taking civic nationalism to the next step. :

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21294

Everyone realizes that a second people has formed in France, a branch that wants to define its life on religious values ​​and is fundamentally opposed to the liberal consensus on which our country was founded,” writes Christian de Moliner. “But a nation always rests on a fundamental pact, a minimum of laws that all approve. This is not the case anymore”.

Blogger Smokey Dust November 22, 2017 10:58 AM  

@Silly but true - you just made me snort coffee on my desk.

On another note Germans don’t seek out cold, Klaus just can’t handle heat or humidity


Blogger VD November 22, 2017 11:20 AM  

VD's idee fixe with ethnic identities causes him to confuse necessary with sufficient conditions--certainly the "Ellis Island" pulse of immigration in the 19th C had its effect on American politics, but it hardly **caused** the Industrial Revolution/urbanization and the social upheavals that followed.

That's a prodigiously stupid thing to say. I have never said anything of the sort nor have I confused anything. Speak for yourself and do not falsely characterize my words and beliefs again.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT November 22, 2017 11:30 AM  

How is this fake nationalism going to survive when it is based on a commitment that no one has to actually make and a love that is never going to be measured or held accountable? Will those who refuse to commit or simply don't possess the love be stripped of their paper nationality and expelled?

The fatal flaw of civic nationalism in a nutshell. If you could read hearts, and if you could read minds, then civic nationalism might work. For a time at least.*

But we cannot read hearts. And we cannot read minds. And without those abilities civic nationalism becomes a suicide pact.

* Note I said for a time. And the reason is this: if you could read hearts and minds then you could keep the immigrant who meets your standards. But there's no guarantee that his descendants would not revert to identity politics.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 22, 2017 11:33 AM  

In a way these Fake Americans are worse than those from truly alien cultures, e.g. the Chinese.

At least you don't have Chinese descendants claiming that they are the founding stock. (At least, not yet... I shouldn't give them ideas)


@22 Groggy
Well, there is that new Democrat senator from Illinois, Tammy Duckworth, who's half Thai and half American. Her Republican opponent made some snide remark about her ancestors coming over from Thailand to fight for George Washington, which got all the progs and cucks bent out of shape. But if she really was identifying with her American side rather than her Thai side, she wouldn't be a liberal Democrat. She has to go back.

Anonymous Feather not dot November 22, 2017 11:38 AM  

"Wait, I thought Vox was a Siberian-American."

Yes, Vox is lactose intolerant and doesn't like milk.

Anonymous Feather not dot November 22, 2017 11:43 AM  

Asians can't drink milk. Vox gets his vitamin D from the Italian sun.

Anonymous Durandel November 22, 2017 11:51 AM  

As a descendant of Lombards, I’m betting Continetti is descended from dirtbag Greco southerners and Muslim slave stock Sicilians. How can this guy call himself an Italian when Italy has been playing some form of identity politics since the Risorgimento?

For us foreigners in the US, it is amazing how fellows like Continetti can’t divorce their personal stake from the review of present reality. Can’t tell you how many times family members get flustered by what I say, usually replying “but if America goes that way, they might deport us!” Yeah, I’m fine with that, so long Americans support us Italians deporting Italy’s foreigners back or into the bottom of the Med.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 22, 2017 11:52 AM  

@88

Lazarus, would you believe it, but when I try to archive the following link at archive.is

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21294

...it actually doesn't work. It says "network error." Do you suppose that website--which is Israeli--has some sort of preventative measure against getting archived?

Blogger Lance E November 22, 2017 11:54 AM  

Well, there you have it. Bill Kristol admits that deep down he is a socialist, feminist liberal.

Helicopter ride when?

Blogger Sheila4g November 22, 2017 12:02 PM  

Vox, to what degree do you think the Irish/Italian immigrants' primarily peasant status contributed to their problems assimilating? My general understanding was that the English/Scots (and, to a lesser degree German)immigrants were craftsmen, small land-holding farmers, or proto-businessmen. They tended to be literate and, as others noted, Protestant. The more I consider the changes wrought by the Ellis Island wave, the more I see a mass of landless, poor peasants who were accustomed to obeying the local "big man" and depending on others' organizational and structural societal building. I've been privileged to know some extremely upper-class Italians who were posted in the US, and their attitudes and politics seemed far more conservative (considering that I, myself was then a new-born conservative). In contrast, when doing genealogy I found a distant relative of my husband who had been interviewed by the Ellis Island project and she admitted quite frankly that her father was thrilled to work in a factory for wages and set work hours rather than scratch a living out of the land in southern Italy. Her mother was determined to remain in Italy with her own mother, until her husband threatened divorce and she finally came to the US, where she had to be taught how to use the stove.

I'm not trying to posit a class warfare scenario; it merely seems that people descended from generations of peasants have certain deeply-ingrained traits that prevent them from truly understanding and embracing the Anglo-American ethos. As you've noted, given enough time (minimum 3 generations) and intermarriage, a number of them learn to identify as and, more importantly, think like Americans, while others never make the transition.

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 12:02 PM  

Can’t tell you how many times family members get flustered by what I say, usually replying “but if America goes that way, they might deport us!”

Strange how actual Americans of colonial descent never even imagine that. It's almost as if these descendants of first- and second-wave immigrants know damn well that they are Fake Americans....

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 12:06 PM  

Vox, to what degree do you think the Irish/Italian immigrants' primarily peasant status contributed to their problems assimilating?

Their lower IQs didn't help. But that's not the primary or even secondary problem. Look, you can learn to fake it, some can fake it very well. But they will NEVER be White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, any more than me, my kids, or my great-grandkids would ever become Japanese while living in Japan and marrying other non-Japanese people.

Anonymous Durandel November 22, 2017 12:09 PM  

Get’s better than that VD. Both sides of my fam came over around 1900. So they aren’t 1st or 2nd gen, they are 3rd/4th.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT November 22, 2017 12:34 PM  

But they will NEVER be White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, any more than me, my kids, or my great-grandkids would ever become Japanese while living in Japan and marrying other non-Japanese people.

Don't be so sure about that.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 22, 2017 12:37 PM  

@95 Durandel

My friend, I think actual Americans might be willing to help you retake the Eastern provinces. Who's up for reestablishing Constantinople? It's a diversity of Christians beating back the Muslim hordes. I'm sure the Greeks would be happy to help, and it's not like the Turks are going to have many allies.

Anonymous Pitcrew November 22, 2017 12:46 PM  

Not to be a contrarian but the first Confederate General, Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard was 1/2 French, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Welsh. Beauregard was OK in my book. Fully Southern too. Euro-mutts are OK, as long as there is old stock in there and the outcome is Anglicized and right-wing.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 22, 2017 12:58 PM  

Yeah, I’m fine with that, so long Americans support us Italians deporting Italy’s foreigners back or into the bottom of the Med.

@95 Durandel
Be my guest. Italy isn't a real country anyway, just an articial construction cobbled together by Freemason dirtbags like Mazzini and Garibaldi.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 22, 2017 12:59 PM  

@104 Pitcrew
P.G.T. Beauregard was a Louisianan.

Anonymous Pitcrew November 22, 2017 1:01 PM  

@106
They are kind of their own thing, like Mormons and Amish aren't they?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 22, 2017 1:43 PM  

Half Italian and half Irish. The dago side is surely Sicilian, which means a lot of Arab admixture one way or another. Great great grandfather would say "Blood will tell".

Ireland was never inside the Hajnal line, arguably the same is true of Sicily. So this guy is half Celtic barbarian and half Med barbarian, bitching about the English Prot descended people's culture not appreciating him? Hillsdale is still buried in civic nationalism. For now. That will have to change.

Kristol? He needs to go. Just go. Away.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 22, 2017 2:10 PM  

Vortigern is the prototypical SJW demagogue. The Trudeau or Merkel of his age.

Blogger Smokey Dust November 22, 2017 2:24 PM  

@95 Durandel

If I didn’t know better I’d swear we sit at the same table. I get the same “but we immigrants and shiiiit too, don’t kick us out”

It’s almost like colonizing neighborhoods in Cities located in deep blue states was a bad way to prove how American you are.

I tell ya what, she ain’t the prettiest or the best cook but marrying my Anglo Saxon “we’ve been here since before small pox” wife looks like the smartest thing I could have done to help out my kids.

I don’t think the Italian colonizers will be welcome back on ye old boot.

When I run the scenario of the cast of the Jersey shore showing up in Venice public drownings seem way more likely than repatriation

Blogger Solaire Of Astora November 22, 2017 2:57 PM  

Between this Incontinetti guy's 'inner liberal' and Bill Kristol quoting Marx the cause of much cuckery is becoming quite clear.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 22, 2017 3:05 PM  

@85 @69

Chief rains-on-your-parade has many names but not all have been revealed yet. Patience. In the mean time, Supreme Dark Lord is always safe for use.

Anonymous BBGKB November 22, 2017 3:55 PM  

LOL Learn2CookMF He likely just swipes his EBT card at taco bell.

“I’m sitting here looking at my last meal and trying to imagine what my meals would be like if I was sent back to Mexico,” DACA illegal alien Adriana Delgado told WNYC."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/daca-illegal-aliens-stage-thanksgiving-holiday-hunger-strike/

Blogger Elder Son November 22, 2017 4:15 PM  

English Prot descended people's culture not appreciating him?

All of my colonial ancestors were: Irish/Scot/Welsh/British. German/Swiss. Western European. The vast majority ending up in Virginia, Tennessee, and thereabouts. That would be 33 ancestors between the 1500's and before the revolution which many of them and their posterity fought in. Be assured that the "founding posterity" were not wholly English.

Blogger Elder Son November 22, 2017 4:25 PM  

But I want to be English, because... posterity! And, and... founding!

Anonymous Daniel H November 22, 2017 4:29 PM  

@Vox Day

Preliminary challenge to your point that the Irish were not, as much as the English were, true original Americans. I must do more research, though, to be confident in my assertion.

Exhibit 1
Charter Given to William Penn by King Charles II for the the ownership/administration of the Pennsylvania Colony. Section VIII of the charter.

[Section VIII] Furthermore, that this new Colony may the more happily increase, by the multitude of people resorting thither. Therefore, Wee, for vs, our heires and successors, doe give and grant by these presents, power licence and libertie vnto ALL THE LIEGE PEOPLE AND SUBJECTS, BOTH PRESENT AND FUTURE of US, OUR HEIRES AND SUCCESSORS, EXCEPTING THOSE ESPECIALLY FORBIDDEN, to transport themselves and families vnto the said Countrey, with such convenient shipping as by the lawes of this, our kingdome of England, they ought to vse with fitting provisions paying only the customes therefore due, and there to settle themselves, dwell and inhabit and plant for the publick and their own private advantage;

These liege peoples would, of course, include the English (Welsh are presumed, without saying), Scots, Irish, French (still had pretensions to the French crown) and later the German subjects of the Elector of Hanover, George I. Irish, Scots, Hanoverians were no less dear to the sovereigns than were the English. The English were first among equals, but they were equals as far as being liege peoples of the English monarch. At least this is how I read the matter.

I must read all the colonial charters to truly grasp the matter, but as far as Pennsylvania was concerned, Irish, Germans were fully entitled to settle in the colony, and they did.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 4:49 PM  

@79-That's the Good Shepherd, a thriller about the early years of the CIA. Matt Damon plays a High WASP probably based on James Angleton. There are also characters based on Wild Bill Donovan and Allan Dulles, as I recall.

In that scene, Damon is collaborating with a mafioso played by Joe Pesci to help set up the Bay of Pigs invasion. Pesci is threatened with deportation if he doesn't cooperate, and he points out he's a citizen and has been in the country since he was a kid. Damon doesn't care. Peace is just visiting.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 4:52 PM  

@117-Correction: I don't know how "peace" got in there. I meant to say Pesci is just visiting.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 4:55 PM  

@37-Did the Soviets manage that? The Nazis brought in international investigators after they conquered the territory previously conquered by the Soviets. The other Allies allowed Katyn to appear on the list of indictments at Nuremberg, I think, but they didn't convict anybody on those grounds, did they?

In any case, whatever broke Western commie faith in the Soviet experiment, it wasn't the Gulag Archipelago. Even if it was a good book.

Blogger DonReynolds November 22, 2017 5:01 PM  

@116 Daniel H
Why of course. Pennsylvania was the first of the colonies to PERMANENTLY embrace religious toleration. (Maryland was the first to permit Roman Catholic settlement, but abandoned that aspect after a few years. So much for the debt owed the Calvert family.) The Penn family were Quakers, who were rather harshly treated in England, complete with flogging and burning at the stake, and religious toleration was an important aspect of their faith. The Crown was simply glad to be rid of them and the intention was that Pennsylvania would be the smallest of the colonies.

In that day and age, the size and significance of the colony was not how many square miles of backwoods and savage Indians it included. Colonies were measured by how much COASTLINE it had on the sea, and Pennsylvania had almost no coastline....barely enough for Philadelphia.

The Penn family entered into a treaty with the Delaware Indians in 1737, who inhabited the 1.2 million acres, now known as Pennsylvania. (Read it on Wiki as "Walking Purchase".) The Delaware Indians sued the state of Pennsylvania in 2004, with the complaint that they had been the victim of fraud. Federal court agreed, but dismissed the lawsuit.

Anonymous BBGKB November 22, 2017 5:01 PM  

I wonder if we could send this information back through time to show them this sort of a travesty, whether the people who opened up the borders to immigration would have made a different decision

The jews who did this not only planned for this, but swore it would be impossible for this to come about. Their ownership of media outlets had those who predicted this and thought it undesirable called bad names.

(((their))) influence (no mass-scale invasion needed)and there you go...Because mad verbal IQ skills?

Owning the media and rewriting history. The TV SHOW (((Madame Secretary))) Clinton has reversed reality on the first US ebola case that actually came to the US via taxpayer money given to Obama allowed Refugees, & recently did a show were smallpox came to the US via global warming instead of AffirmativeAction mistakes at the CDC. Right now bubonic plague is being spread by people who have sex with corpses but run away from needles full of free white man medicine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5097415/Plague-patients-escape-afraid-needles.html

69 so, how the hell haven't the commentators for this blog come up with an Indian name for VD?"

Uncle TomAHawk AKA "Dances on Darkstreams"

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 22, 2017 5:10 PM  

VD wrote:One of the fascinating things about the failure of conservatism and civic nationalism is the way it reveals conservatives to be every bit as delusional, emotional, and irrational as they once observed liberals and progressives to be, only about different things.
I've been saying this for years.  All the major social dogmas—left, right, environmentalist (mostly a subset of #1), Libertarian, Objectivist, etc.—have one or more major issues of fact precisely backwards, and studiously ignores it.  This provides something for the other camps to point at and laugh (or hurl insults), while the other camps do the same thing right back.

What does this do?  It preserves and exaggerates social divisions, so that the elites can rule without facing a united opposition.  Now, (((who))) could be so clever as to engineer such a thing?

Blogger DonReynolds November 22, 2017 5:19 PM  

Elder Son wrote:English Prot descended people's culture not appreciating him?

All of my colonial ancestors were: Irish/Scot/Welsh/British. German/Swiss. Western European. The vast majority ending up in Virginia, Tennessee, and thereabouts. That would be 33 ancestors between the 1500's and before the revolution which many of them and their posterity fought in. Be assured that the "founding posterity" were not wholly English.


I have this same discussion with someone, at least once a month. They want to insist that the different tribes that inhabit the British Isles must be dissembled as separate peoples... Cornish, Welsh, Irish, Scots, English....when it has been the UK (United Kingdom) since 1707.

When it comes to counting Germans they want to aggregate every possible drop of German ethnicity they can lay hands on, even though Germany did not even exist as a nation until Bismark scotch-taped them together in 1871....meaning, many of the "Germans" in the USA arrived before Germany even existed, so they would not know they were "German". The German Confederation was created with the fall of Napoleon but had to wait another 50 years (and another French defeat) to declare the German Reich, which did not include Austria.

Anonymous Daniel H November 22, 2017 5:37 PM  

@120 Don Reynolds
So you endorse my point, that the Irish (as well as Scots, Scots/Irish and some German peoples) have as much a right to consider themselves the progenitors of the American nation as do the English, Welsh or Scots.

I am going to take the time to read all the colonial charters. I will be surprised if such charters do not include similar language, asserting that all the liege subjects of the Crown had an equal right to settle the Crown's dominions.

The English were first among equals, but just imagine the reaction an Englishman of the time would have received if he tried to forcibly remove a Scotsman, Scots/Irish, or Irishman from a plot of land that any of the latter had claimed with proper title of ownership. I don't think that the Englishman would have come out too well in the exchange.

Blogger Elder Son November 22, 2017 5:52 PM  

In many cases, genetically, yes. The Irish, are still Irish. Well, except the de Nogent, that immigrated from France to Ireland (There is a story in that, forget what it is. Something about a marriage, some royalty) and became just Nugent. Anyhow. genetically speaking, all DNA of the above mentioned matches to my family tree places of birth and death, etc. So Irish... etc. I can go back even further and somewhat trace their migration from the Caucasus, Iberian Peninsula, to Southern Europe on up.

I've got 93,249 people in my tree. The further back you go, the more confusing it all gets... 80 AD and some Sultan or other from Iran.

Anyhow, I think I see your point. My point? Not to get stuck in the English purity crap as far as the founding posterity of this country as some are wont to do. And just reading some of your posts, it is quite obvious there is no founding purity.

Anyhow, back to painting.

Anonymous Durandel November 22, 2017 5:53 PM  

We probably could repatriate if we wanted to or were forced too. I’m 4th gen but I’m still 75% N. Italian, I still look like my family back in Italy. But like you, my wife traces her family back to before 1776 in the colonies. So long as I prove I’m useful to real Americans, I should be okay. At the very least my kids will okay.

Blogger SirHamster November 22, 2017 5:54 PM  

Erynne wrote:After some thinking I am able to come up with:

Wars With Mouse


Beats Dead Horse

Anonymous Durandel November 22, 2017 5:56 PM  

Agreed. Order of allegiance in my family back in Italy is family/calico team > town > neighborhood > region and then maybe Italy when it suits their needs. There is not much sense of “Italianess” and I’d be happy to see the country break up into city states again.

Anonymous Durandel November 22, 2017 5:58 PM  

I’d be happy to right the wrongs of the Latinate Empire and help retake Constantinople. Deus vult

Anonymous AB.Prosper November 22, 2017 7:11 PM  

Ages wrote:The Italians seem to gravitate towards a feudal-manor approach with strictly local loyalties holding sway most of the time.

That is the kind of society a lot of white nationalists want.


It was arguably also the most Christian time in European history.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf November 22, 2017 7:23 PM  

Given the genetic admix it only seems reasonable to define a new subspecies of Americans.

This could be accomplished with IQ testing, genetic testing and followup behavioural analysis tied to the genetics. The goal would be a relatively high IQ becoming 100 with a disposition for in-group preference while concurrently finding solice in individual accomplishment, at least some of the time.

In time eugenics will play a useful and primary role in shaping our subspecies.

Of this we can be assured.

As an aside, even if the USA does not descend into CWII we should seriously consider the option of slowly carving out a community online and if possible a free State.

Once a political force, ending Welfare will do wonders for any free State (except for the free bussing). In this regards we could take the online community and establish residence in an area of the USA to procure voting rights to select the local council to begin with. It's not hard to fly to a State and set up a P.O. box as a Citizen. To get the ball rolling.

Anonymous Sertorius November 22, 2017 7:52 PM  

Daniel H @124

Be sure to check out the charter for Carolina--a thoroughly Whiggish document, written of course by Shaftsbury's secretary, John Locke, it specifically mentions the colony as being open to Protestant dissenters of all stripes, of which Jews were considered a subset.

At any rate, the idea that the Framers of the Constitution had in mind a British ethnostate is pure fantasy. For one thing, in 1790 fully 15% of the white population was non-British. Moreover, even that number is skewed by the admittedly white-bread demographics of New England...the percentage of non-British in the Mid-Atlantic states was correspondingly higher. For instance, fully a third of white Pennsylvanian's were German, while New York had a similarly large number of Germans and Dutch. Since the Founders were engaged in a remarkably complex game of Jenga with the 13 colonies--and had failed once already--defining the ethnic composition of future nation would have been a non-starter even if any of the Framers had really been concerned with the issue...and there is no sign that any were, beyond the standard Colonial boilerplate regarding Protestantism.

As for Vox, what exactly is the point of emphasizing the "fakeness" of various ethnic subgroups if you aren't implying they are the primary vector of the disease and not merely the symptom?








Blogger VD November 22, 2017 8:18 PM  

there is no sign that any were, beyond the standard Colonial boilerplate regarding Protestantism.

You're absolutely wrong and clearly haven't read any historical documents of the era or even Cuckservative. They absolutely considered the USA to be a British ethnostate and Ben Franklin openly worried about the excess number of Germans in Pennsylvania.

Their mistake was to think that there was plenty of room so they welcomed white men of good character. Now look up what they considered white....

The idiocy of the civic nationalists can be seen in the way they rely upon stupid arguments involving the Founder's lack of sufficient foresight. "Well, they never explicitly said GORILLAS couldn't be citizens, so obviously they INTENDED for gorillas to be given the vote."

Ridiculous. Like most people throughout history, they assumed that the status quo would more or less continue indefinitely. And like most people throughout history, they were wrong.

Blogger VD November 22, 2017 8:23 PM  

As for Vox, what exactly is the point of emphasizing the "fakeness" of various ethnic subgroups if you aren't implying they are the primary vector of the disease and not merely the symptom?

They are the primary vector of the disease. And I see no way for the descendants of the second and third waves to be excised at this point, which is why I expect the USA to fail in a catastrophic manner.

The Italians and the Irish were the original problem. They could have, and should have, been handled like the Chinese were. But they laid the groundwork for the Jews, the Germans, and the Scandinavians, who made things even worse. And they paved the way for the Mexicans, the Africans, and the Muslims. At this point, the USA probably can't get back to 1986, let alone 1965. 18-whatever is totally out of the question.

Blogger J.M. November 22, 2017 9:05 PM  

Vox, you are intelligent but like all men, you have your biases. According to your theory Britain, Canada (until two decades ago or so), Australia and New Zealand should be the best examples of freedom loving people in a land where the rule of law exists, where the government is not massive and social and economic freedoms are respected, in other words, Switzerland or close to it since their populations are by far MUCH MORE ANGLO than whatever you find in the U.S., less "tainted" by Germans, Italians, French and so on. I think we can all safely agree and that ALL the countries mentioned and less free and their populations endure more oppressive governments (female idiocy to the max, PC quasi-dictatorship, socialist policies, end to the right to bear arms, etc etc.). The worst part is that peoples of those countries CLAIMED FOR, ELECTED, AND ENACTED their governments actions with glee, only a tiny minority resisted or tried to do so.

Whether you like it or not, your theory is full of holes and cannot explain why the peoples whose entrance you decry were allowed to enter en masse by the "virtuous protestant men of British stock" that inhabited the US back then, while the countries that should be shining examples of freedom due to their Protestant ethic (hahaha) and Anglo-saxon "pure" heritage sink ever so low. You don't seem to realize that Irish and Italians were brought as low cost labor not out of a "duty bring white men of good character". You don't seem to realize that if anything, the mixture of European peoples in the U.S. might have slowed down the destruction of the liberties that many Americans take for granted etc. etc.

The massive entrance of those peoples was a symptom of decay and sloth, an early one but a symptom nonetheless. Had your forefathers not lusted after even bigger profits bringing blacks first and later on, other European serfs in order to bring down the wages of their fellow countrymen (the only reason they couldn't do these is the virtuous cycle described by Ian Fletcher in his book), many of the problems you described would have been avoided.

Anonymous AB.Prosper November 22, 2017 9:29 PM  

VD wrote:At this point, the USA probably can't get back to 1986, let alone 1965. 18-whatever is totally out of the question.

If we are cold blooded enough about it, the US or some parts of it can make something that works.

Its not going to easy or bloodless though.

Really a society is defined as much by its constraints and limits as by what it believes in and imposing constraints on the people by lack, force or custom is not going to go down easily.

Lost of guns out there too.

Anonymous Sertorius November 22, 2017 9:39 PM  

Forgive my mid-wittery, but I'm confused. The Framers absolutely intended a British ethnostate, yet welcomed all white men of good character. Which was it? And since "intention" implies instrumentality, where exactly are the plans--even if they're just jottings on a cocktail napkin--that will bring forth such a polity?

As for Franklin, he was one man--and more to the point, writing at a time when the Colonies were being squeezed by Great Powers to the North, West, and South, not to mention still potent indigenes. Four decades later, the Framers inhabited a different world altogether, with a virtual Empty Quarter ready for settlement to the left bank of the Mississippi...space indeed, even before the Louisiana Purchase.
Franklin also didn't live in a slave state--Pennsylvania's 5,000 or so slaves being a drop in the bucket compared, say, to South Carolina, which famously became a majority African colony in the first decade of the 18th C. Consequently, the Southern states needed all the white men they could get--they had the wolf by the ears, in Jefferson's memorable phrase--how picky could they afford to be? Besides, **their** fathers--of Franklin's generation and earlier--had had no scruples about creating Bantustan's rather than Surrey's, nor were they shy about crowding every Low Country wharf to purchase the indentures of the whores and petty thieves who had managed to avoid Tyburn's fatal tree.

As for the Irish and Italians being "vectors," I look at British history--Hogarth's London, the Highland clearances, Blake's dark, Satanic mills--and see "homo homini lupus est" was the watchword there as well, even without the Micks and Spics. If Britain was no Hobbiton, what alternative fate was possible for a US even if it had been a British ethnostate? The Irish and Italians were epiphenomena--the Ostjuden we can quibble about.


Anonymous Timmy T Bone November 22, 2017 11:03 PM  

I have to laugh at all the nonsense comments about who is a real American. Everybody pontificating about who is a real American (anglos) better remember one thing - the WASP's/Anglos whatever you want to call them are the ones who sold out ALL western countries to the Jews and globalists. Never forget it.

It wasnt the Irish, Italians, Germans, Scandinavians,etc that sold the country out - it was the WASPs. There was a major Jewish ass kissing fest going on during both WW1 and WW2. The WASP's ALLOWED what was done to Europe to be done.

Yes the Anglos founded the country but they didnt do it by themselves. They had lots of help from a variety of people that were not English but were white. That included Poles, French, Germans, Dutch and others.

Realize that while you are bickering the Jews and globalists are LAUGHING at you. Instead of whites banding together against a common enemy the are busy bickering about who is a "real" American.

This is why white people are doomed.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 11:31 PM  

@137-"The Framers absolutely intended an ethnostate, yet welcomed all white men of good character. Which was it?"

I don't know why people can't grasp the idea of letting people into your country, even letting them become citizens, without the state being for them. You should be talking about Founders, not Framers, but anyway in either case they wanted the country to be for the initial inhabitants, mostly ethnically English and Protestant in religion.

The U.S. stopped serving that group at some point. Not sure when, but certainly by the Civil War. But well into the 20th century it was still run by a WASP elite (the "Establishment"). Which I probably don't need to tell you never operated under the delusion and that the country existed to serve the needs of all inhabitants equitably. Even if they did make use of the huddled masses, and ended up handing the country over to them.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 11:38 PM  

@138-The Puritan Disease, as Moldbug might call it, certainly infected the mind of the ruling class. And they screwed up. Even if Jews, for instance, were Wormtonguing in WASP ears, it's still WASPs who gave us Invade the World/Invite the World/In Hoc to the world.

Yet, bear in mind that had WASPs screwed up while we maintained the ethnic balance of the Founding generations, we could have gone back. Not as a giant Do-Over, with the exact same political and economic conditions. But at least with another go at the American experiment. Which you can always do, so long as you have American people.

But not if those people are drowned out by alien populations. Then there's no do-over in any form. Unless you practice ethnic cleansing.

Blogger tublecane November 22, 2017 11:41 PM  

@139-Tl;dr, a country can be partly OF certain people but not FOR them.

The U.S. from the beginning included Africans and Red Indians. But anyone thinks the country was for those groups as much as it was for Englishmen oughtta have their head examined.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 23, 2017 12:57 AM  

Vox, you are intelligent but like all men, you have your biases. According to your theory Britain, Canada (until two decades ago or so), Australia and New Zealand

@135 J.M.
Agreed. I personally think that the European immigration of Irish, Germans, Italians, etc. was more or less a wash in regards to how cucked present-day Americans are.

We do know that the heaviest support for Trump are among American-ethnic voters in the Upland South. Yes, that's definitely true.

BUT... considering how the current British, Canadians, and Australians are currently flooding their countries with brown people, in an alternate universe (say, where there was a Catholic Exclusion Act, or a Continental European Exclusion Act), would an ethnic-British Yankee Northern U.S. which had excluded other European immigrants eventually be doing the same thing?

I think it almost certainly would.

Now I suppose it's possible that the old-blood Yankees in New England and the other British stock in the Midwest voted more for Trump than the European (German / Irish / Italian) majority. Possible, but I doubt it. If anything, I think Yankee cuckery was transmitted from the British to the other ethnicities.

After all, in New England, the white immigrants were almost entirely Catholics, and weren't members of the United Church of Christ or the Unitarian Universalists, which would have been purely the affairs of the Yankee Puritan descendants.

And then, the 1965 Immigration Act sailed through both houses of Congress with veto-proof majorities.

But the cuckery would have proceeded even without the connivance of European immigrants. It was innate in the British settlers' belief systems, especially the more high-brow ones.

Forgive my mid-wittery, but I'm confused. The Framers absolutely intended a British ethnostate, yet welcomed all white men of good character. Which was it?

@137 Sertorius
"White men", at that time, were limited pretty much to the British Isles. Ben Franklin referred to the "swarthy" Germans and Swedes. Yes, Swedes... I guess because they tan rather than burn.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 23, 2017 1:23 AM  

tl;dr: Did white European immigrants make white Americans more or less cucked? I'd say it most likely didn't make much of a difference. But non-European immigrants -- Latin Americans, Asians, Africans -- are innately liberal. And then again, American blacks are more hard-left than most immigrants.

Anonymous delta19 November 23, 2017 1:38 AM  

The WASPs by far were the biggest kissers of 3rd world people ass of any European ethnicity. I have never seen any other European ethnic group waxing poetically over primitive people in both Indian and Africa. Get a freaking grip. There is tons of references by WASP's to the people of Israel.

As someone else mentioned they have been in bed with the Jews going back DECADES if not a century. Both Wilson and Roosevelt's govmt was full of Jews. During WW2 Roosevelt was advised by tons of Jews who told him what to do with the Germans. That something involved burning the cities to the ground and stuffing fellow whites into internment camps. And for the finale - Roosevelt gave away all of eastern Europe to the Soviets.

What I find really interesting is how the WASP elite in this country sanctioned the slaughter of other white people who were their brothers/sisters and relatives.

Hey white European people let us send you to Europe so you can make war on your relatives? We want you to murder them. How do you like them apples. And you know what? THEY DID IT.

As for the original British people still in the UK - I am sitting here watching them allow their country to be taken over by god knows who.

Did you ever think you would see a day that London would have a Muslim major? Dont think for a second that they are not as cucked as Americans. They are same if not worse.

I give the WASP's credit for founding this country but by no means were they the paragons of virtue that people are are portraying them. They were always interested in $$$. They sold out themselves and other whites to the Jews for $$$ a long time ago.

Blaming other whites for their own screw ups just means they dont want to take responsibility for them screwing all of us.

Blogger DonReynolds November 23, 2017 2:12 AM  

@142 VFM#7634
"Ben Franklin referred to the "swarthy" Germans and Swedes. Yes, Swedes... I guess because they tan rather than burn."

Two considerations to add....

One...Not all of the British colonies were built by the British. New York was built by the Dutch as New Netherland, which included what was later New York and parts of Long Island, New Jersey, and Connecticut. This was invaded the British (by the Duke of York) in 1664. Control passed back to the Dutch in 1673 for a year or two, until it was recaptured by the British. New Amsterdam on Manhattan was the capital of New Netherland.

The Swedes also had a colony (New Sweden), which included parts of Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, from 1638 to 1655. This colony was established during the Thirty Years War, when Sweden was a major military power in Europe. This colony was conquered by the Dutch and incorporated into New Netherland. Fort Christina is now named for Spencer Compton (Earl of Wilmington), who was Prime Minister for King George II.

Two....The colonies could not survive or thrive without trade and to engage in trade, they needed skills....including the skills of people they did not have available (in quantities) among the British settlers.

The first labor strike in the New World was by Polish glass blowers in colonial Virginia over being denied the right to vote in Virginia elections. (Colonial Virginia caved on the strike and gave them the right to vote.) Of course, there were glass blowers in England but not many of them were keen on leaving good jobs to go to the colonies in America.

The American colonies were heavily dependent on seafaring ships to conduct that trade and so a significant amount of American commerce was devoted to naval stores....tar, pitch, timber, and rope. Coastal American was incredibly blessed with vast pine forests for the development of these trade items. To work these pine forests, Balts and Germans were brought in to do the work.
Who else had more experience working in pine forests?

Blogger tublecane November 23, 2017 2:14 AM  

@143-That's one question. Another is: did immigrants make America less American? The answer to that is yes. They drowned out the true nation.

Now, those national peoples might have screwed up anyway, as did the Mother Country (which brought upon itself its own "rivers of blood" problem). But if you wanted to de-cuck the British nation, you could. Because the English could still run things.

The American nation, on the other hand, can't run things anymore. Not without radical secession and segregation or deportation. That's the salient factor in the National Question.

Anonymous Nightowl2548 November 23, 2017 1:19 PM  

One of the things I'm so happy about leaving Chicagoland at 18 is not to have to deal with all these strange "I'm Irish I'm Italian I'm Polish I'm Lithuanian I'm Ukrainian I'm blah blah blah" Coming from virtually all of my American born classmates in suburban Cook county whose parents were also American born. I really hate this obsession with somewhere your great grandparents were born, if your really looking for your identity it's as a midwesterner if anything. That's where your born and your culture was playing with star wars action figures in 1st grade, not dancing polkas.

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 23, 2017 2:01 PM  

Timmy T Bone wrote:Instead of whites banding together against a common enemy the are busy bickering about who is a "real" American.
To band together against enemies, we first have to agree who they are and who they are not.

Anonymous Daniel H November 23, 2017 2:57 PM  

Seems for a white polity to work/survive in the 21st century, white Hajnals need white non-Hajnals to slap them up side the head occasionally to save the Hajnals from their own worst altruistic instincts. Who knows, this suicidal altruism may have been there in the English polity from the beginning, and having no formidable enemies their instincts did not pose too much danger to themselves. That is clearly not the case today.

The most Blut and Boden white Americans I know and have met in my life are prole Italians and Irish (the rightwing type, not the flaky liberals). Hajnals need us. Trump is a Hajnal who gets it.

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