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Saturday, November 04, 2017

Mailvox: inventing sin

TB is unhappy with the descent of his church into worldly racial cuckery:
I was baptized in the Seattle church, where there was none of this bunk. We’ve moved to the Portland church and have been part of the church here for four years. The last year or so has caused me concern. Our minister, Steve Johnson, is from the south and has been experiencing white male guilt as he gets older.

What is with men turning into mush pies as they age? Reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt.

The one thing I am certain of is that any solutions to the problems mentioned in the linked content by anyone in agreement with the content in the letter , provided the proposer of the solutions informs of the desired result, will fail. Our church was very Bible and Jesus focused. That focus is weakening, but hopefully only in our local church and not the ICOC as a whole. So many churches are terrible, I’m not looking forward to finding a new one.
More and more Churchians are revealing themselves to be lukewarm, far more concerned about seeking the world's approval than they are about following the lead of Jesus Christ, far more fearful of the judgment of Man than of the judgment of God, and unwilling to condemn genuine sin while constantly posturing in condemnation of that which is not, and has never been, sinful.
We write this letter not as Democrats or Republicans or as partisans of any political philosophy, but as Christians who are partisans of the kingdom of God described in the biblical text.

We write because of the racial tensions that now engulf our nation—racism against blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and other ethnic minorities. But what has triggered our concern at this particular time is the tension that surrounds black/white relations—an extension of America’s original sin, the sin of slavery.

The question begs for an answer: how will we who claim the name Christian respond?

The choice before us is clear. We can allow the racism that abounds in America’s popular culture to set the agenda for the church. Or we can allow the biblical vision of the kingdom of God to determine what we believe, how we feel, and how we act.

The biblical text is clear: racism is a sin. It violates Jesus’ command to love our neighbors as ourselves.

But here we have another choice. We can read the biblical text through the lens of American culture or we can read the culture through the lens of the biblical text.

Put another way, we can acknowledge that racism is a sin and behave accordingly, or we can act as if racism is only a minor problem or, even worse, participate in the racism that scars such large segments of this nation.... But racial bigotry is only half of our problem. The other half is widespread misunderstanding on the part of many white Americans—including many white Christians—of the unique set of challenges that faces American citizens if the color of their skin happens to be black.

Nothing has reflected that reality more clearly than the popular response to the Black Lives Matter movement.
Racism, as a concept, did not even exist until it was coined in 1902; the Oxford English Dictionary  gives 1936 as the first recorded use. The idea that it could possibly be a sin, much less the very worst sin of all, defies not only the Bible and nearly two thousand years of theological literature, but reason and the calendar too.

Remember, Christians are given a spirit of discernment and we are to judge things by their fruits. And the fruits of the false concept of racism as sin are deeply poisonous indeed. They have proven to be incredibly destructive of individuals, families, societies, and nations alike. When I was a child, I used to wonder how it could be that so many supposed Christians could ever be so deceived by the Antichrist as to literally worship evil.

Now, as I see Christian ministers angrily denouncing racism and sexism from the pulpit even as they embrace Babelist globalism and sexual abomination, it all makes perfect sense. Aslan is not a tame lion, and God's definition of sin is not determined by temporal human sensitivities. Neither racism nor hurting someone's feelings by your beliefs are sins, and anyone who tells you they are is not merely lying, he is a servant of the spirit of Antichrist.

This is really not that difficult for any educated believer. By EVERY single definition of racism utilized by the anti-racists, both Jesus Christ and God are revealed to be sinners by their overtly racist words and actions. Therefore, the perverted theology of anti-racism is obviously and necessarily false, and quite possibly blasphemous as well. And in that vein, notice how many female names are among the letter's signatories.

Every so-called pastor who preaches against racism should be expelled from the pulpit. And if he refuses to repent, from the Church. They are among the wolves in sheep's clothing of whom we were warned.

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184 Comments:

Blogger lannes November 04, 2017 6:54 AM  

Brilliant.

Blogger JohnofAustria November 04, 2017 7:01 AM  

I'm amazed that even nominal Christians can't understand how fundamentally flawed it is to compare slavery to Original Sin.

Because if that is the case it means that even we who had no hand and causing it are equally damned before it until we repent of something we have not done. In fact I use that framework as an argument against that belief because it is so loathsome

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 7:14 AM  

Neither liberals nor conservatives ever seem to think through the obvious consequences of the contorted logic they use to defend their ridiculous positions.

Anonymous Strange Aeons November 04, 2017 7:26 AM  

Amen.Thank you for this, SDL

Anonymous Imperator November 04, 2017 7:29 AM  

The framing of slavery as a type of original sin is deliberate, I think, as it is intended as a bludgeon for the anti-racists to use against their political opponents. Many Christians fall for it, since as our host reminds us, MPAI.

Blogger SouthRon November 04, 2017 7:38 AM  

Last Sunday I was shocked. We're searching for a local church and through odd circumstances walked into one we hadn't planned on checking out. The pastor is a small man, but looks like he could bench press the front end of his truck and shock of shocks has an attractive, feminine looking Southern wife. Then part way through the sermon he goes into how The Church is being destroyed by people being nice and not wanting to offend anyone. Hello. You have my attention.

It's looking promising. Now to see if the church adheres to the common position around this "dry"-until-last-year, moonshine-soaked county that alcohol is evil and even moderate use is reason for denying membership. One of the members almost whispered that they have folks that drink and those that won't when I asked if it was an issue.

Anonymous Steve November 04, 2017 7:40 AM  

What is with men turning into mush pies as they age?

Low T, compounded by poor diet and exercise.

Blogger Duh-ave November 04, 2017 7:41 AM  

We are also comanded to love our enemies. Nothing was said about ignoring the problems our enemies cause us. Any talk however sincere and polite about these problems gets labeled as "hate speech" and makes reconcilliation impossible.

Blogger Resident Moron™ November 04, 2017 7:42 AM  

It's OK to be white.

In fact it is positively good to be white.

On Twitter one regularly sees this nonsense about reparations for slavery. I always say the same thing:

White people made slavery a sin and a crime: black people are still buying and selling each other today.

I guess I'm OK with being white.

But America's original sin is that she is unbelievably rich and powerful. Nobody is demanding reparations from Africans and Muslims even tho they're demonstrably far more guilty of slavery than any living Americans.

The fact is that demands for reparations are blacks trying to use guilt and government to enslave whites.

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 04, 2017 7:44 AM  

This crap is so nauseating. The way these people give up their dignity and prostrate themselves before the vaunted brown people is pathetic. And they're being laughed at behind closed doors, no doubt. "Watch me make Whitey dance."

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 7:47 AM  

OP: "What is with men turning into mush pies as they age?"

As men age, their testosterone level goes down, and so they are more affected by the (way lower) level of estrogen / estrogen-like compounds that they have always had. (testosterone suppresses their effects in younger men).

Just as older women's estrogen goes down, so THEY are more affected by their (way lower) testosterone / T-analog levels.

It's why older men immerse themselves in their 'second families' (My KIDS! Wow!) and old women want to run the business -- or the world!

Blogger Al From Bay Shore November 04, 2017 7:53 AM  

Marxists love to shriek "racism" because they have no argument.

Anonymous gritsntime November 04, 2017 7:56 AM  

It used to be a given, within the Church and outside of the church, that while we were to extend Christian charity in thought, spirit and action, toward blacks, they were in essence, "cursed". This belief was born of the evidence of our own eyes and experience. Blacks are a cursed race, given to low impulse control, low IQ, present time orientation, lack of empathy toward everyone, even their own children, basically--they are a race possessed by the Devil. The degrees of which may vary person to person, or by subculture, but was always present.

Nothing in the last 50 years has proven that more than the American experiment with African-Americans. The letter linked to in this post, also further demonstrates the constant re-framing of this issue as though it were Black & White, which is purposeful, to avoid the obvious--EVERYONE ELSE SEES BLACKS EXACTLY LIKE WHITES ARGUED FOR CENTURIES. Only whites have downward pressure from the culture and even such "Christian leadership" to CONSTANTLY disavow what daily experiences give us in the black race. NO ONE, NOT ONE CULTURE in the modernized world that is non-white and not black, does NOT see blacks as cursed. From Japan to Saudi, to Peru to Lebanon, blacks are viewed as essentially sub-human if you will. Perhaps "proto-human" as some argue now.

GOD seems to have condemned them from the start--and the rest of the world is condemned to deal with them. Good ANY major US city and you will see unspeakable crimes and/or daily acts of hatred committed by blacks, not unlike Africa. They are rabid.

Until whites group together LIKE EVERY OTHER identifiable race/culture (including the infamous, yet often white "Latino" community) we, and WE ALONE will continue to be punished for the "sin" of trying to pacify, appease, or worse in their minds, avoid and ignore blacks.

No "Chinese Christian" church, or Latino church (if recognizable in it's identity) cares one wit about blacks--be it inviting them in, mission trips to Africa, or sending out press releases condemning racism. No one asks any other non-white "why aren't you..." questions.

I pray some day whites wake up--completely, and let go this burden.

Anonymous jankson November 04, 2017 8:03 AM  

In which christianity continues to kill the west as a cancer that it is.

Anonymous Faceless November 04, 2017 8:04 AM  

Why are these wicked people still holding slaves? Why haven't they freed them? Apparently they haven't repented yet of their slave ownership.

Blogger Howard Stone November 04, 2017 8:05 AM  

This kind of thing is really just a primer. The author of this email will be even mor shocked to find out that his church leaders are behind the scenes working with groups like antifa and BLM etc., and it won’t be long before they are organizing and promoting and asking church members to participate in “peaceful protests”. They are waiting for another Charlottesville type event to use as a pretence to step up involvement in these movements and to come together with otherblike minded clergy to draft and sign some sort of statement condemning Trump, or something along those lines. Antifa and BLM needs them to hide behind the association to deflect from their political violence.

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 8:05 AM  

In which christianity continues to kill the west as a cancer that it is.

Silence, ignorant pagan. Christianity IS a vital aspect of the West. No Christianity, no Western civilization. Only a tremendously stupid fool could fail to notice that the West's decline coincides precisely with the decline of Christianity and Christian influence in the European nations.

Blogger Bastion Harm November 04, 2017 8:06 AM  

We write because of the racial tensions that now engulf our nation—racism against blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and other ethnic minorities...

...the racism that abounds in America’s popular culture....


When the hell was this written??

Seems to me, all of the blacks and other minorities are literally put on a pedestal by The Regime and made into a protected-class to which one cannot even say "no" to. And, of course, as we all know: it's OK, if not encouraged, to hate on Whitey these days.

Anonymous Steve November 04, 2017 8:09 AM  

an extension of America’s original sin, the sin of slavery.

Our MLK who art in heaven,
Affirmative Action be thy name.
Thy kangdom come,
Thy wypipo be cucked on Earth
As they are in Sweden.
Gibmedats this day our daily drank
And forgive a brutha his trespassing.
As our black friends pop a cap in those who trespass against them.
And lead us not into problematic realtalk about race,
But deliver us from having testicles.
For thine is the kangdom, the black power and the Oprah,
And mo' money fo' dem programs.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 8:11 AM  

Oof. Just read the linked crap. Dear GOD (literally!) how CAN people -- WHITE people! -- be so *invincibly* ignorant?!

Is it revisionism in the church(es)? I think: okay, Tower of Babel -- GOD separating people into groups He wanted to be SEPARATE!

Then I think of the MPAI churchians (and Christians?) I know who say: 'no, Jesus came to dump the old testament. We don't go by that; ONLY what Jesus said matters.'



https://answersingenesis.org/tower-of-babel/how-many-races-did-god-create/
Because of this, God confused their language, and groups of people separated and moved away from one another.

... As a consequence of Babel, the people groups became genetically isolated.

As a consequence of Babel, the people groups could not easily mix. They became genetically isolated, meaning that they married and had offspring primarily within their particular group. As the years passed, each group developed its own culture and ways of doing things. Genetically isolated, certain physical traits became more prominent in each group. These ethnic characteristics are wrongly considered racial characteristics; but there really is only one race, the human race. All of these people were simply people.



WHY do these MPAI not consider that PERHAPS the omnipotent God who sees all and knows all (or, Dark Lord, at least all He *chooses* to see and know?) INTENDED that the groups should move apart and become genetically distinct? WHY do they insist on "one race" "simply people" -- when GOD put them asunder? And if the 'rule' is: "what God has joined, let no man put asunder"; why is not its obverse ALSO true / directed?

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 8:15 AM  

> The biblical text is clear: racism is a sin. It violates Jesus’ command to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Ah, the good Samaritan again. I'll quote the relevant passages from the KJV.

"And who is my neighbour?" ...
....
"And he said, He that shewed mercy on him."
"Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise."

Has BLM ever shown mercy on me? If not, then they're not my neighbor. Will they ever show mercy on me? Don't make me laugh.

> The framing of slavery as a type of original sin is deliberate, I think,

Of course it is. And it's a lie.

> We are also comanded to love our enemies. Nothing was said about ignoring the problems our enemies cause us.

Yes. Again I'll quote the relevant passage (again from the KJV):

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

Taking the worst case position, how does being racist contravene any of those?

Anonymous Anonymous November 04, 2017 8:18 AM  

The great irony is that, in fact, for the Christian, it is "anti-racism" that is the sin, not racism. Why? Because the Christian is always told to believe and speak the truth. Thus, if it is true that there are races/ethnicities (there are), and if those races/ethnicities have innate differences between them (they do), then "racism" is true, and the Christian must profess that fact. This is the same reason why the Christian must be a sexist: because it is true that there are innate differences between men and women (such as average strength) which makes men, on average, better suited to certain roles than to others. This is the truth, and it must be spoken of as such.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. November 04, 2017 8:20 AM  

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
Acts 10:34-35
1 Corinthians 12:13
James 2:9
Revelation 7:9-10
Ephesians 2:14-18
Galatians 3:28

Ergo: Multiculturalism, globalism, borderlessness of every kind, no proximity limitations and the denial of racial realities in this world.

Thus spake the modern Church.

Blogger en_forcer November 04, 2017 8:24 AM  

If a church I am checking out has one talking point that I'm unsure about, will more of the others always show up? Or is it possible that a church stays cucked in only one category?

Blogger Al From Bay Shore November 04, 2017 8:25 AM  

@19 Maybe I am being inappropriate but MLK must be attacked. He was a socialist. All one needs to do is read the demands he made via the "Poor People's Campaign". Additionally, read "The Radicalization of Martin Luther King: The Last Three Years" by Kenneth L. Smith. Smith is a leftist; sympathetic to MLK, and one of his profs at Crozier Theological Seminary. I'm no Christian but based on the things I've learned from this blog, Smith easily falls into the category of "SJW-Churchian". I could be wrong.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 8:25 AM  

Interesting too;

... Man’s thoughts of rebellion have been in effect since the Fall of mankind (Genesis 3). Babel was no different. God said to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth (Genesis 9:1), but man’s rebellious heart was again disobedient so soon after the Flood that these men tried to defy God’s command by building a tower so they would not be scattered (Genesis 11:4).

Often today we get caught up in the details of something like how to pronounce Babel and, yet, we don’t reflect that due to rebellion against a Holy God, this scattering of languages and people occurred. As we study Scripture, we need to keep in mind the big picture of sin, rebellion . . . and of course Christ’s sacrificial work to save us from God's righteous judgment.

https://answersingenesis.org/tower-of-babel/babel-how-to-pronounce-it/



"so they would not be scattered"

Then, here's your "prince of this world" hard at work in the modern day! (See: Brussels, EU, churchianism?)

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2017 8:29 AM  

The Satanists are just spiking the football on you now.

And you know this is evil because if someone just responded, "It's ok to be white", the lunatics who wrote this would flip out.

Anonymous MattN November 04, 2017 8:32 AM  

Speaking of cucked pastors and "racism", here's what your old friend Greg Boyd is up to Vox

https://youtu.be/UfSpWXMubus

Anonymous Charlottesvillain November 04, 2017 8:41 AM  

"Neither racism nor hurting someone's feelings by your beliefs are sins, and anyone who tells you they are is not merely lying, he is a servant of the spirit of Antichrist."

Speaking of, CATO/YouGov released a survey on Free Speech.
https://www.cato.org/survey-reports/state-free-speech-tolerance-america

Spoiler: Our recent vibrant imports don't mind ending the 1st Amendment because of "hate speech".

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 8:44 AM  

Speaking of cucked pastors and "racism", here's what your old friend Greg Boyd is up to Vox.

Oh, I know. Race has always been his theological achilles heel.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams November 04, 2017 8:47 AM  

Paul did not have a problem with slavery and as Vox pointed out, "racism" didn't exist.

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 8:47 AM  

If a church I am checking out has one talking point that I'm unsure about, will more of the others always show up? Or is it possible that a church stays cucked in only one category?

I don't know about "always", but "reliably", yes. It is possible, but highly unlikely. The tipping point after which there is observably no return is women preaching.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. November 04, 2017 8:50 AM  

In which christianity continues to kill the west as a cancer that it is.

The Christians and Christianity Nietzsche spoke of are the exact same Christians and Christianity spoken of here as "Cucks" and "Churchians".

Something to ponder.

Anonymous Nick November 04, 2017 8:51 AM  

Part of the reason the late, great Dr. Sam Francis was fired from the Washington Times was his column that criticized the Southern Baptist Convention for their groveling apology for slavery, where he stated that nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned as a sin. Churchian snakes who claim "the Bible text is clear" while endorsing the tenets of leftist, atheist progressivism, are the best allies Satan could hope to have.

Blogger dienw November 04, 2017 8:51 AM  

What is with men turning into mush pies as they age?
I don't know about you whippersnapper but I have become more ornery as I age.

Since this is a topic on sin, unless a man repents of his (real) sins his heart hardens, he becomes harder to turn around, and he becomes increasingly defensive/argumentative regarding his sin: see abortion.

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 8:53 AM  

@VD: Sincere request which I'm sure you expected: Could you please quote a few of the Biblical verses which (in your opinion) suggest that God and Jesus were overtly racist in word and deed?

The verses cited in @23 suggest the opposite, which may have been the commentor's intent.

I understand that the Hebrews and later the Christians were called to be a separate people, but to me that appears to be a question of nation, or even the choice of fidelity to God, rather than inborn race.

Blogger dienw November 04, 2017 8:53 AM  

Bibically speaking, God does not condemn slavery: the Israelites were permitted to have slaves; the stranger was different from the tribe and it was permitted to have them as long term slaves; on the other hand members of the twelve tribes were only subject to debt slavery and their term of service was not to exceed seven years (I do not recall what is written about selling oneself to another out of poverty - as a survival tactic; but I suspect even that was to be temporary). Concubines were a different matter.

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 8:56 AM  

Could you please quote a few of the Biblical verses which (in your opinion) suggest that God and Jesus were overtly racist in word and deed?

What part of Chosen People is hard for you to grasp? What part of comparing a Samaritan woman to a dog is difficult to understand?

Blogger Arthur Isaac November 04, 2017 8:59 AM  

Canaanite Lives Matter...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2017 8:59 AM  

It's womanish behavior, I know a prog church goer, and one time he mentioned he was taking his two daughters to church that night to package candy bars up for shipment to Africa. A no bullshit story, so I ranted that I wanted Africans to get their shit together so they could ship candy bars my way (Hersheys milk choc).

All that rant did was harsh his good feelz, and that is all it is about.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams November 04, 2017 9:02 AM  

Candy bars to Africa?

That's Churianity in a nutshell: give the needy non nutritious food.

Blogger Johnny November 04, 2017 9:05 AM  

The usual criteria for calling a belief system a religion is that it involves the belief in a god of some sort. Going by that definition, we can not call what we teach in our schools a religion as it is at least nominally asserted that it is the product of science. But realistically the teaching has taken on all the characteristics of a religion that like Catholicism in some periods, is obsessed with guilt. If it wasn't slavery guilt it would be some other sort of guilt. That's all. And it is not going to get fixed by voluntary means because the teaching serves the interests and vanity of those who teach it. The fix, if it is to be had, is institutional change, which would eventually produce cultural change in the secular community. That in turn would fix religion because what is going on in religion is a spillover from the current culture.

Blogger SteelPalm November 04, 2017 9:06 AM  

To me, a major attraction of religion is that it's not beholden to the current political correctness. It's timeless and unchanging, a chance to worship the same ways one's ancestors did hundreds or thousands of years ago.

Therein lies a large portion of its power and appeal. Take that away, and it becomes nothing more than a modern-day country club, utterly devoid of faith.

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 9:07 AM  

@6 In some areas of the US, the only uncucked churches to be found are also teetotalers.

Mine is fantastically Biblical. One of the elders recently complained about two homosexuals who moved into his neighborhood, saying that back in his day, "they would have been asked to leave." And the church members are great people, really good Christians, charitable and warm hearted.

But if they knew that I drink an occasional glass of wine, they might ask me to leave, too. I've often wondered if their church pews would be fuller if they weren't stuck on that.

Incidentally, although this is one of the whitest counties in the US and my church friends are often assumed to be poor white racist trash, they've often mentioned that POC would be welcome if they chose to come. There's a Korean woman who came over on the arm of a GI after WW2 who is welcomed without a blink of an eye. The Mexicans are welcomed, too. But naturally they are all expected to find Jesus and convert.

Anonymous Ages November 04, 2017 9:09 AM  

The whole Christian world (even those I would not consider to be cucked) were very swift to condemn the Antifa protestor being hit by a car in Charlottesville.

But an Islamist runs over dozens in NYC...crickets.

Blogger FrankNorman November 04, 2017 9:10 AM  

"Racism" is a Leftist buzzword that means whatever they want it to mean - they will change the definition in the middle of an argument.
Leftists, being inherently intellectually dishonest, will conflate love for one's own kind with hatred for others - because the Leftists themselves hate everyone else.

So no, it is NOT a sin to believe that some people are more intelligent than others.
It is NOT a sin to value the wellbeing of one's own family above that of strangers - in fact, it's a moral duty!

The real issue, I think, is that the modernist dogma of "Equality" has become the standard by which these Churchians are judging right and wrong, not the Bible.
Some of them are capable to realizing that they have gone astray, others are already apostates - they just don't know it yet.
But the LORD knows those who are His.

Anonymous Phariseeslayer November 04, 2017 9:11 AM  

“To me, a major attraction of religion is that it's not beholden to the current political correctness. It's timeless and unchanging, a chance to worship the same ways one's ancestors did hundreds or thousands of years ago.”

Your Talmud is the current political correctness.

Anonymous TS November 04, 2017 9:13 AM  

"Now, as I see Christian ministers angrily denouncing racism and sexism from the pulpit even as they embrace Babelist globalism and sexual abomination, it all makes perfect sense."

Yep and as you noticed these pastors "just happened" to get in a dander over racism pretty recently as Tower of Babel 2.0 nears completion.

Aslan is not a tame lion...

Nice.

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 9:16 AM  

@38 VD
I am distinguishing between "race" and "nation." One is genetic, and the other is a question of identity (for lack of a better word since that one has been tainted).

The Hebrews were descendants of Abraham, but their ranks also included people of other "races" who married in and converted.

I know I'm poking a bear here by arguing with you on your own blog, but I am only asking because I disagree with you but am trying to keep an open mind and understand your point of view. Go easy on me :-)

Anonymous RabidRatel November 04, 2017 9:17 AM  

Resident Moron™ wrote:Nobody is demanding reparations from Africans and Muslims even tho they're demonstrably far more guilty of slavery than any living Americans.

The fact is that demands for reparations are blacks trying to use guilt and government to enslave whites.


It would seem that the slavers' attention has wandered from the land of Slavs to the new world.

Why would slavers desist from enslaving people when there are none in power to stop them?

Blogger dvdivx November 04, 2017 9:18 AM  

So how do you spot these people? Reminds me of John Brown. At least the old pictures of him look like Soros when he had a beard. Seattle and Portland are full of these people and good luck finding an uncucked church in either city.

Anonymous TS November 04, 2017 9:20 AM  

"Could you please quote a few of the Biblical verses which (in your opinion) suggest that God and Jesus were overtly racist in word and deed?"

http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/13-23.htm

Now close the piehole.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2017 9:20 AM  

All these clowns are doing is making "Race" into the thing, not exactly peachy for White America, but we saddled ourselves with an empire so our 1% could get even richer and our soldier types could play soldier and "give us our freedumb, an stuff."

Anonymous roadrage November 04, 2017 9:26 AM  

Vox, this is one of your best posts in a while.
Good goin'.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 9:31 AM  

> The usual criteria for calling a belief system a religion is that it involves the belief in a god of some sort. Going by that definition, we can not call what we teach in our schools a religion as it is at least nominally asserted that it is the product of science.

In our current school system, how is the government treated differently than we would treat God?

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright November 04, 2017 9:32 AM  

I see more and more truth to the idea that you can be a Christian or an Leftist...and the more people move left, the less Christianity they hold onto.

There are a few exceptions, Liberals I know who seem to still be putting God first...but they are very few between.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira November 04, 2017 9:35 AM  

> What is with men turning into mush pies as they age? Reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt.

It's a sickening trend.

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 9:37 AM  

I know I'm poking a bear here by arguing with you on your own blog, but I am only asking because I disagree with you but am trying to keep an open mind and understand your point of view. Go easy on me :-)

Look the verses up yourself. They exist and you know where to find them. I know your kind and I know that your first reaction is going to be to quibble with all of the verses I provide no matter how conclusive they are. So, I am going to go easy on you by simply ignoring you. If other commenters wish to engage, they are welcome to do so.

I see more and more truth to the idea that you can be a Christian or an Leftist...and the more people move left, the less Christianity they hold onto.

Because Leftism is based on lies. That being said, as our knowledge and collective experience expands, conservatives are increasingly being forced to choose between truth and falsehood, and as their intellectual gyrations demonstrate, they, too, are showing antipathy for the truth.

Anonymous TS November 04, 2017 9:41 AM  

"It's a sickening trend."

It's mostly a boomer thing. I knew some older pre boomer men and they weren't like that (in general).

Anonymous Grimble November 04, 2017 9:43 AM  

Let's have mandatory testosterone tests for priests.

Blogger Wanderer November 04, 2017 9:44 AM  

Red Cabbage wrote:I understand that the Hebrews and later the Christians were called to be a separate people, but to me that appears to be a question of nation, or even the choice of fidelity to God, rather than inborn race.

In the original Greek manuscript the word "nation" is actually "ethnos". When you read about 'separate nations' in the Bible it is meant to be understood as 'separate ethnicities'.

Anonymous roadrage November 04, 2017 9:45 AM  

At James Dixon
"....how is the government treated differently than we would treat God?"
The source of a nation's law is that nation's god.
God's law is anathema in " public schools."

Anonymous Chris November 04, 2017 9:52 AM  

"Can Jesus be racist?"

Can you judge God?

Blogger SB Wright November 04, 2017 9:55 AM  

The Bible was not originally written in English, and the early translations obviously weren't into English either. Potentially there are words/concepts in one language which don't exist in another. So the fact that English didn't have a precise word for a certain concept until 1936 doesn't mean that a text written in a different language couldn't have it. Vox, I'm sure you thought of this. Is the response to this that the Bible/Christianity was so pervasive an influence, and the concepts in it so well understood, that it is completely unreasonable that a word for any sin the Bible listed wouldn't have been coined hundreds of years ago?

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 9:56 AM  

@61 Thank you. That was useful. I will think about it for awhile.

The other two replies were not. Pity.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club November 04, 2017 10:00 AM  

And in that vein, notice how many female names are among the letter's signatories.

And look how the most vapid, mewling comments in favor of the letter are also by females. Some of them are as almost as silly and puerile as that BLM "house afire" metaphor.

How could anyone take seriously people who decry "RAYSIZUM!" while slurping so heavily upon the likes of Obama and BLM? Oh, I see, people who, in all seriousness, would write things such as "Forgiveness from Black Christians is actually easily available. However, to appropriate it, White Christians must repent."

Blogger Lovekraft November 04, 2017 10:02 AM  

There are still some people who recognize convergence and put a stop to it.

From breitbart:

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/11/03/chicago-cubs-owner-shuts-two-news-websites-union-threats/

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 10:03 AM  

Is the response to this that the Bible/Christianity was so pervasive an influence, and the concepts in it so well understood, that it is completely unreasonable that a word for any sin the Bible listed wouldn't have been coined hundreds of years ago?

Yes. Please feel free to cite the Greek or Hebrew word that should have been translated as "racism" and refers to "a belief in the superiority of one genetically differentiated group to another" if you disagree.

We are dealing with known knowns here.

Blogger VD November 04, 2017 10:04 AM  

The other two replies were not. Pity.

Go away, Gamma. This is no place for you.

Blogger Brad Matthews November 04, 2017 10:11 AM  

Slavery is NOT a sin.
Racism is NOT a sin.
SJWs cannot define sin or declare something holy.

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 10:11 AM  

Luk 18:8 I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

This is obviously a rhetorical question. Jesus is saying that no, he will not in fact find faith on earth.

Blogger Arthur Isaac November 04, 2017 10:11 AM  

Samuel also said unto Saul, The sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:1-3

Samuel lost his Kingdom in part because he refused to kill every last one of them. This plotline is important to the story of Esther. What was the basis of this slaughter? It wasn't just bad behavior.

Amalekite Lives Matter.

Blogger Igor the Obscure November 04, 2017 10:12 AM  

Walter Williams has graciously provided absolution for the "original sin" of America: http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/WalterWilliamsAmnestyProclamation.pdf

Blogger Arthur Isaac November 04, 2017 10:14 AM  

The modern cuck pastor would have an on the spot nervous breakdown if he received marching orders like we see via Samuel. A man that the Bible notes as not having a single word he spoke "fall to the ground".

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 10:15 AM  

> Can you judge God?

He allows us to. And if we find him wanting to turn away from him. Do you argue with his decision?

Blogger CM November 04, 2017 10:15 AM  

The Hebrews were descendants of Abraham, but their ranks also included people of other "races" who married in and converted.

The Israel way of "inclusivesness" would not compute with modern sensibilities.

You could join the nation of Israel if you forsake your people, your previous family, you families gods, customs, traditions, and values.

Basically become a blank slate that God can write himself onto. They needed to embrace Israel's God, customs, traditions... and to tie it all up in a bloody bow, be circumcised.

Compare that to what the Modern West considers inclusive and racist. We wouldn't be debating the merits of chain immigration, that's for sure. Oh... your American? Then you don't have family over there?

As you can see, such a process goes against human nature and to choose conversion meant a storehouse of Faith and conviction. It didn't happen often.

Blogger dfordoom November 04, 2017 10:22 AM  

@59. TS

I knew some older pre boomer men and they weren't like that (in general).

Most of the older pre boomer men I had contact with were frighteningly cucked.

The cucking and the feminising of Christianity have been happening for well over a century. It's been a slow and gradual but inexorable process.

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 10:24 AM  

@69 Before I read your reply, I came back to say, "On second thought I was being ungracious. Thank you for taking the time to reply." That comment still stands, and I apologize for my rudeness.

As for being Gamma, that may well be true. (Can women be gammas?) Luckily, I am a child of God and will hopefully still scrape into Heaven anyway.

Thanks again for replying, and for your hard work to maintain this blog. I may not always agree with you, but I still enjoy your contributions.

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 10:26 AM  

Here's a verse you may find interesting, Red Cabbage:

Tit 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."

This is a highly negative sweeping generalization of an ethnicity. SJWs would call this racism. God would call it truth.

Blogger dfordoom November 04, 2017 10:29 AM  

@44. Red Cabbage

In some areas of the US, the only untucked churches to be found are also teetotallers.

Ironically the obsession with temperance was one of the first signs that Christianity was becoming a cucked religion. It was one of the first occasions on which Christians caved in to the demands of women. In fact, caved in to the demands of feminists. It was the beginning of the emasculation of Christian men.

Anonymous SugarPi November 04, 2017 10:30 AM  

Posts like this one is why I return again and again. Stellar comments, as well. I'll be using this info among the churchians in my circles. Or not. I may just smile and move along.

Blogger Gordon November 04, 2017 10:33 AM  

Steve wrote:

Thy wypipo be cucked on Earth

As they are in Sweden.


Geez, man, you need to warn people. Coffee sprayed across the keyboard and screen is not healthy for devices.

Blogger Unknown November 04, 2017 10:34 AM  

My pastor (Robert Morris of Gateway Church in Southlake, TX) gave the dreaded "racism is sin" lecture a couple of weeks ago. Between the coddling of non-widowed single moms and general waste of church funds on cleaning up bad decisions of the local diversity, my family and a couple of close redpilled friends have been ready to walk for a while, but the antiracism thing broke the camel's back. We don't want to stop going to church altogether though. Does anyone know of any actively uncucked churches in the DFW metroplex, preferably on the Fort Worth side? We aren't interested in Latino churches. Thanks!

Blogger Gordon November 04, 2017 10:47 AM  

dvdivx wrote:Seattle and Portland are full of these people and good luck finding an uncucked church in either city.

Ahem. As our host suggests so often, start your own. There must be thousands in each searching for the same thing you are.

Startup costs are zero; one just needs to start spreading the word and meeting in your living room or garage. As you grow, there are plenty of businesses willing to rent you space on Sundays. Movie theaters have started doing this.

Here in Minneapolis uncucked congregations have started buying the older, disused churches (Lutheran, Catholic) in vibrant neighborhoods. There's one just two blocks from me.

Perhaps there needs to be a clearinghouse for folks to find such churches. It could be "The United National Conference of Uncucked Congregations."

Blogger ant becker November 04, 2017 10:48 AM  

Walter Williams has graciously provided absolution for the "original sin" of America: http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/WalterWilliamsAmnestyProclamation.pdf

Him and Thomas Sowell are decent chaps. Can't we keep them and not make them go back?

Blogger Rick November 04, 2017 10:50 AM  

The best thing a black man can do is to be transformed by Christianity (properly understood) and western civilization.
The latter currently, the former always.
But this is true for each man, regardless of race. No race is off the hook.

So knowledge is good, including knowledge of this or that race’s historical and statistical data, shortcomings, etc. But be careful not to make an idle of race or knowledge or even of selective biblical passages either, which is intoxication. Knowledge is of no value, or worse, even of Christ, if you are not transformed by it.
I know this is true, yet fail at it constantly.

Blogger Rick November 04, 2017 10:52 AM  

*idol

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 10:56 AM  

@80 I agree. It's hilarious that my leftist acquaintances mock them for teetotaling when it originated from a leftist movement to begin with.

I also suspect that teetotaling took hold here because there are so many people of Irish and Scottish descent, who were into hard liquor. In my experience, drunks who stick to wine and beer are easier to put up with. The healthy dose of Indian blood probably didn't help, either.

Just a theory.

Blogger rondolf November 04, 2017 10:57 AM  

"Him and Thomas Sowell are decent chaps. Can't we keep them and not make them go back?"

The best thing that we could do for black people is make them go back, wherever back ends up being.

Anonymous Anonymous November 04, 2017 11:02 AM  

The idea that one race is better than another is a propositional statement that is either true or false. Anybody looking at history with even remotely open eyes can see that certain cultures and peoples stand apart from others. It is not an accident that Rome ruled much of the known world for centuries, nor is it an accident that the Middle East keeps getting overrun and incorporated into various empires throughout its history.

Racism in any case is a useless construct as a sin. The left never really bothers to define what it is, it's left open-ended to be anything that disadvantages a minority. Sin in reality is color-blind - if it's a sin against a black man, it's a sin against a white man, and it would be called by the sin's actual name, be it theft, murder, adultery, or something else.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. November 04, 2017 11:04 AM  

Red Cabbage wrote:The verses cited in @23 suggest the opposite, which may have been the commentor's intent.

No. In fact, the only way those versus can be seen to mean what the modern Church, and apparently yourself, asset that they mean is to first view the Bible through an axialist, modernist, anachronistic, re-interpretive lens as opposed to viewing the world and Being through the interpretive device that is the Bible.

Beware the church that muddles Leftist and Christian nomenclature.

The Bible is not a Living Document.

You're not your fucking khakis.

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 11:13 AM  

Here's how the word "racism" was born: When the Church found out that there were human beings living in North and South America, they had to find some way to square this with the Bible. Bible which only mentions 70 different nations that descended from Adam. Solution: These nations are descendants from a population of humans BEFORE Adam. Then they started fleshing out the details. This became known as Racial Theory, and shortened into Racism.

However, then the slave traders appropriated Racism, and came up with the idea that it is the nature of these races to be slaves to the Adamic races. So, Racism was constantly heard in connection with justifying abuse of the slaves. It acquired an instinctive negative connotation. This was very useful to the abolitionists, so they started conjuring the spectre of Racism as policy. It had the right rhetorical effect. Eventually Racism came to be understood as the abuse itself, and not the intellectual theory that originally became the justification for it.

Blogger Cecil Henry November 04, 2017 11:13 AM  

These Churchians prefer their own aggrandizement and virtue signalling to White Genocide.

Race is not evil. ITs a good.
Denying that results in this:

PsyOp FK17: Fatemeh Khavari & Violent Attacks on Police
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaOZ_Q3qBk

https://i.imgur.com/gevCTM0.png

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 11:15 AM  

@76 I like this argument, and it has the advantage of being somehow funny.

Anonymous CPEG November 04, 2017 11:16 AM  

"In which christianity continues to kill the west as a cancer that it is."

This is not Christianity. This is Christianity's mimic predator.

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 11:17 AM  

The connotation was in fact so strongly negative, that they tried if they could just take the "ism" and create "sexism" to piggyback on it. It worked marvelously, and now everybody wants a piece of the action. Like "ableism".

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 11:26 AM  

@95 The constant redefinition of the word is really irritating. It makes it impossible to talk about. When I hear "racist" I think "hates someone for their genetics," which makes me old-fashioned at the ripe old age of 39.

Blogger wisdom wizard November 04, 2017 11:39 AM  

Thankfully, the Nothing Left have utterly ruined the word racism and are in the process of making the term Nazi into just as much a laughing stock. The great irony is that it is THEY whom are the ones filled with hatred towards other races. Noting the differences is not evil. They only wish to have power, but it is slipping away.

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 11:40 AM  

However, I think "ableism" and "ageism" have been strategic mistakes. It makes it too transparent what they are doing - just attaching -ism to a word and then it suddenly becomes a horrible evil - that even normies are going to start thinking, "what actual, rational reason do I have to think that sexism and racism are bad?"

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 11:41 AM  

"...OR, have I just been fooled by a magic trick, that I now know how it's done?"

Blogger artensoll November 04, 2017 11:47 AM  

82. Gordon: "Geez, man, you need to warn people. Coffee sprayed across the keyboard and screen is not healthy for devices."


Can confirm.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 11:50 AM  

Note that as I expected, the love of the commandment "love your enemies" is actually agapate in the original Greek. The KJV more usually translates agape as charity, so a more accurate translation might be "be in charity with your enemies".

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 11:56 AM  

Also, "enemy" is a bad translation of echthros, at least in modern English. Finnish has the word vihollinen for enemy, but we translate this word as vihamies, lit. "hate-man". It's not talking about the kind of enemy that you have in a war between nations, such that if you see him, he's going to try to kill you. It's talking about someone who you REALLY don't get along with.

Anonymous CPEG November 04, 2017 11:56 AM  

@James Dixon
In the OT, the example given for "Love your enemy" was "if his donkey falls in a ditch, pull it out." Not exactly "if he rapes your wife, give him your daughters also, and invite his whole family to hop across the border and join in."

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 11:57 AM  

> I also suspect that teetotaling took hold here because there are so many people of Irish and Scottish descent, who were into hard liquor. In my experience, drunks who stick to wine and beer are easier to put up with.

It's entirely possible the Scotch and Irish genetics and beer/wine simply don't get along.

Anonymous beau November 04, 2017 11:58 AM  

it is wrong for one human being to own another. this is one issue: slavery.

it is not wrong to be wary of, and act accordingly, when one of those you know will do you harm, or are your enemy, are around you, or in your presence. this is another issue: self preservation.

it is natural to want to be with one of your own kind having a shared ancestry, mores, social ethic and religion, even to the exclusion of those not of such ancestry, mores, social ethic and religion. this is another issue: genetics.

to state that all cultures are equal is to deny the reality dealt with on a daily basis in any multicultural society. this is another issue: willing blindness.

if engaging in self preservation based on one's genetic code is 'racism' according to the willingly blind, then so be it.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 11:59 AM  

Markku, CPEG: Exactly.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 12:02 PM  

> ...it is wrong for one human being to own another. this is one issue: slavery.

Yes. No man can actually own another. Demanding a man's labor to repay a debt OTOH...

The evil of slavery in the US was two fold. There was no way out of it; and you were born into it by the color of your skin.

Anonymous CPEG November 04, 2017 12:07 PM  

@James Dixon
Some of the ways it was sometimes prosecuted were also evil and anti-Biblical, for example, OT laws had restrictions on the beating of slaves, the death penalty for taking slaves through kidnapping or owning a slave so obtained, and you were forbidden to return runaway slaves to their masters.

Blogger Resident Moron™ November 04, 2017 12:07 PM  

A friend of mine pointed out that there are only 3 examples known to archeology of cultures being utterly extinguished.

All three of them are biblical and were executed on the orders of God.

As Vox notes above, in biblical language there is no distinction between race, nation, ethnicity or culture. When a message is described as being given "to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people" this is not a list of 4 different things, this is Hebrew repetition for emphasis. IOW, they're the same things being referred to, the different terms referring to different aspects of them, and not different things.

So apparently God is quite serious about the proposition that some cultures are better than others.

Call yourself a Christian if you like, but flatly contradicting God is not a good sign that you're serious about it.

Anonymous Bible scholar November 04, 2017 12:08 PM  

"Not exactly "if he rapes your wife, give him your daughters also..."

Hmmm That's what Lot tried to do in the biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Anonymous Bob November 04, 2017 12:12 PM  

We used to have real sins like lies and envy ...

Blogger Ned November 04, 2017 12:13 PM  

Re cucked from low testosterone - A friend's father once warned me to never trust a man whose hips are wider than his shoulders. Over the years his observation proved true for me.

Most lefties seem sadly out of shape - low T. Soy boys also suffer from low T.

I think it's likely gammas raising gammas that causes the churchian problem.

Blogger tz November 04, 2017 12:17 PM  

OP: "What is with men turning into mush pies as they age?" It's called the fall, and death. Youthful vigor where you have 5 decades or more ahead of you to fight the good fight is not the same after you're battle weary for fighting several decades, often with little support, little victory - and those are often condemned instead of celebrated (see the cucks on Trump's victory) and wonder why you are burning the candle at both ends for moochers and ingrates.

You can go to seminary and get your Thelogical credentials, or even just start up a bible church in your home - all the relevent books are online, and it starts with the bible. You can be a preacher and take the slings and arrows yourself.

Chuck Baldwin hasn't weakened - I think he's stronger now at 70 at libertyfellowshipmt.com than back when he was in Florida. But his stories are all about proclaming truth while under attack from within and without.

God can and will raise up priests and pastors on fire with the faith, but is that what you really want? Conviction works both ways. "Racism" is safe because no one thinks themselves as a racist. But you probably have some practices that are sinful from God's perspective, and if you find a truly uncucked pastor, you might start feeling convicted. Some ears itch to hear racism condemned, others itch to hear how they are not really a problem.

Many years ago, I noted Evangelicals flip-flopped on contraception (They were more restrictive than Catholcs before 1930 and 1960) and then became crazily horrified about homosexuality which is sterile. Projection?
One thing Evangelicals now seem to be pushing is Israel - the ETHNO-state is special, so their blatant rabid racism is actually praised - when security forces do worse than the KKK. So they are ultra-sensitive about any accusations they might be acting like Israleis in being racist.

Anonymous Bible scholar November 04, 2017 12:18 PM  

"Ironically the obsession with temperance was one of the first signs that Christianity was becoming a cucked religion. It was one of the first occasions on which Christians caved in to the demands of women."

Obviously wasn't always like that many a reverend ran a whisky distillery too.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/31487/whiskey-business-many-myths-jack-daniel

Blogger Phelps November 04, 2017 12:18 PM  

Remember too, that the bible never concerns itself with the word race -- only nations, a much better term for this purpose.

And what does it tell us? It tells us that the nations were divided by God, and that it is a terrible sin to try to build a tower to unite the nations.

Blogger Zaklog the Great November 04, 2017 12:25 PM  

@107

There was also the evil that they were creating an insoluble problem for their descendants. Anyone with even a little foresight could see that system was dangerously unstable. They brought an alien and probably hostile population among their own people. The slave traders committed a crime not only against the blacks they enslaved, but against the descendants of the whites as well.

Anonymous Bible scholar November 04, 2017 12:27 PM  

"Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled..." Deuteronomy 22:9


Blogger Zaklog the Great November 04, 2017 12:27 PM  

I was greatly encouraged last Sunday about the prospects of my own church. The OT text was from Ex. 22, and if he'd had the slightest inclination, the priest could have easily spoken on how whites were obligated to give up their homes and their children's future to make brown people happy. He said not a word about that idea.

It's amazing, these days, how much you can say simply by not saying something that's expected.

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 04, 2017 12:29 PM  

Heian-kyo Dreams wrote:Candy bars to Africa?

That's Churianity in a nutshell: give the needy non nutritious food.


Yeah, talk about feel good B.S. Hmmm, on the other hand...

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 12:35 PM  

@Red Cabbage

This has been touched on a bit, but to elaborate further -

Racism is an overbroad term, and that's what's muddling things. Treating another human as less than human is a sin because the contempt and abuse involved hardens a person's heart to the other and, by and large, saps away any spirit of love inside them.

But 'racism' these days is 'noticing that a certain group of people have certain deficiencies of character and behavior'. Or even more trivial than that.

God has zero issues with handling a group of people, whether split by nation or ethnicity, according to their corporate character. Corporate sin and punishment is a thing, and happens very, very often in the Old Testament. See the story of the Jews contained therein.

Because a people's corporate character is the sum of all their beliefs and various attributes as a single organism that acts upon the world. If the corporate organism is deeply pathological, then striking it down is the right thing to do, whether or not there are a few good people being taken down with them.

The issue with American is that it is an empire and contains many different groups of people. With Black Americans, for instance, there are essentially two groups of people: Those that have, more or less, made the leap to being Americans, and then those who have reverted to a quasi-African identity with all the out-group hatred and plundering, blind tribalism, and shamanism that implies.

The quasi-African blacks clustered around places like Chicago have fully earned a placed on the 'They have to go back' boat. The true American blacks have earned their place in the American identity. The problem on how this board handles things is that these true American blacks are mostly invisible and could use another hundred years or so to fully integrate. The not-problem with how this board handles things is that if things get ugly enough in the collapse, the invisible, American blacks are going to get swept up in the mess and it's their fault for not casting the quasi-African blacks into the abyss themselves.

If American Blacks had stuck to Martin Luther King Jr., things would be very different, and they did for a while. But for a plethora of factors, they've switched allegiances to Malcom X these last thirty years and, as a corporate group, should be treated accordingly.

Anonymous TS November 04, 2017 12:37 PM  

"And what does it tell us? It tells us that the nations were divided by God, and that it is a terrible sin to try to build a tower to unite the nations."

It's funny how there is some thought that there is going to be some sort of race of mongrel globalist tools that look similar to ancient Egyptians when the globalist "elite" finally accomplish their machinations when in reality all that will happen is that countries become balkanized into nations within nations or countries within countries. Hey nobody said gloBULLism had to make sense.

Blogger tz November 04, 2017 12:42 PM  

The letter at the top is just an excerpt. The whole thing is far worse, but I'd like to focus on one paragraph:

Inner city black communities have been on fire, metaphorically speaking at least, for a very long time. In city after city, whites deserted these neighborhoods, leaving communities with a tax base entirely inadequate to support a variety of services, including the public schools. Plagued with poverty, crime, and failing schools, children grow up with essentially no hope.

Why don't wealthy blacks want to live in these poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods with failing schools?
Children without hope? How many are born of sin - out of wedlock. How often do you hear the word sin or evil connected with sex outside of marriage from any pulpit today, even the uncucked ones? And Crime? The Bible condemns every one as a serious sin. Where is the Crime coming from in the black neighborhoods? It isn't some miasma that has descended. Do not Blacks have moral agency?

This is something I recently realized and pointed out. BECAUSE the left can't condemn sexual license itself, they have to condemn fake sin like racism, sexism, etc. So it isn't "Latrina and her half dozen kids by different fathers, where everyone cheats and steals when not robbing", it's the remote whites who never interacted with her but their "racism" radiates and oppresses.

This is the atheist - SJW upside down morality. They might agree about violence and theft, but sex? Sex is a holy rite right in any consensual form! The Bible and experience teach differently.

Put differently are these neigborhoods cursed because of the color of their skin or the content of their Character defined by God? And if Whites have retained their biblical views and didn't want to be around sin that is not permitted if not celebrated?

If you consider only married couples, then almost all (98%+) racial inequality disappears. And white unwed mothers have the same poverty problems, as do hispanics. I assume Asians would too, but there are so few.

But it is easier for the letter writers to condemn some amorphous external "racism" than to condemn the behavior of those who are their sheep. Letting them be spiritually killed by the devil and saying nothing. Condemning their lifestyles.

God blesses those who obey has commandments. The real ones, not those made up by pastors who want to change the subject.

Put simply, A majority of blacks have reenslaved themselves to sin and the Devil is their master. If they know the truth, the truth will set them free, but they have to accept the way, the truth, and the life.

Their slavery isn't horrible, so they accept living in the upper regions of Hell. Subsidizing their Hellish existence is a worse sin, especially at the expense of the prudent, industrious, and righteous.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 1:01 PM  

@41 "Candy bars to Africa?
That's Churianity in a nutshell: give the needy non nutritious food."

Nash, it's returning stuff we already paid them for:

Nearly 70% of the world cacao crop today is grown in West Africa.



Anonymous Gen. Kong November 04, 2017 1:02 PM  

You will note that only whites are targeted with these ardent demands for repentance for the "sin" of rayciss. Dindus, who are observably far more racist are always handed an exemption card, not to mention (((Talmudists))) - easily one of the most racist groups ever to exist in history - who get their card because Judeo Christ. Where was all this concern back in 2008, when it was revealed that the Democratic candidate for president attended a "church" in Chicago for 2 decades where a variant of the Nation of Islam's black supremacism was taught from the pulpit by Jeremiah Wright every Sunday?

The cucking seems to have no limits. Even here, at a place where reality is far better known, we had an astonishingly idiotic comment the other day about preferring to be in a foxhole with a dindu 'Christian' than with a white 'atheist'. One need look no further than Zimbabwe or South Africa to see dindu 'Christianity' in action. Naturally, the cucks and churchians are utterly silent about the genocide carried out against white Christians. Nothing new in this either as they didn't much give a damn while Christians were being genocided in Armenia by Muslims a century ago, or by Muslims supported by the Fake Banana Empire and Israel in Syria just last year.

The whole Christian world (even those I would not consider to be cucked) were very swift to condemn the Antifa protestor being hit by a car in Charlottesville.

But an Islamist runs over dozens in NYC...crickets.


Sums it up rather nicely, no? YT is condemned for slavery (not defined as sin in either OT or NT). Musloid and dindu and other slaveries OK. BTW, in response to some historical illiterate above: only blacks born to black slaves were born into slavery. Other blacks owned black slaves in pre-1865 USA. The concept of children born to slaves being counted as slaves goes back to ancient times and was found in Rome and elsewhere. As to Roman slavery, some (Greeks for example) were highly prized and often allowed to buy their freedom. Others were literally worked to to death in mines. Laws or rules governing the treatment of slaves were few and rarely enforced. Only in now-vanished Christendom was slavery finally outlawed and abolished. It's already making a rapid comeback and none of the lying, whining cucks are very concerned about it of course.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 1:03 PM  

@44 "But if they knew that I drink an occasional glass of wine, they might ask me to leave, too."

How do they balance that with Jesus turning water INTO WINE!?

Anonymous Ages November 04, 2017 1:11 PM  

@125 I once had one try to convince me—with a straight face—that the ancient Jews didn't drink wine, it was unfermented grape juice.

Of course, grapes begin fermenting before they are even harvested, so it was quite hilarious to watch this person try to explain how the Jews invented pasteurization thousands of years ago.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. November 04, 2017 1:22 PM  

Minor sperg:

Both slavery and (justifiable) homicide are legal in the United States, so long as they are pursuant to a criminal conviction. In other words, so long as it is the State enslaving/perpetrating the homicide.

Anonymous TS November 04, 2017 1:22 PM  

@44 "But if they knew that I drink an occasional glass of wine, they might ask me to leave, too."

Bah, a lot of monasteries ran vineyards...

http://blog.theburgundyshop.com/of-monks-and-wine


Anonymous Godfrey November 04, 2017 2:03 PM  

And the irony is that these same people unequivocally support apartheid Israel and their wall.

Anonymous Red Cabbage November 04, 2017 2:19 PM  

Forgive me if this is a repost, my computer is acting up.

@125 You should have been there when I accidentally mentioned that miracle in the kids' Sunday school class. They'd never heard of it.

The adults assume the wine was watered.

As for me, I keep my mouth shut, and follow the prescription for dealing with vegetarians per Romans 14. It might be different if I were a male and also not an incomer.

Incidentally, on the slavery issue, leftists are very pro-slavery. That's why they support the use of illegal immigrant labor, and they hardly ever talk about the slavery used to make Chinese imports.

They don't mind exploiting people for cheap labor. They just don't want to have to look at it.

Blogger Markku November 04, 2017 2:26 PM  

The adults assume the wine was watered.

Yayin was. Shêkâr wasn't.

shêkâr, shay-kawr'; from H7937; an intoxicant, i.e. intensely alcoholic liquor:—strong drink, drunkard, strong wine.

So, the Bible surely forbids shêkâr, right? Wrong. It COMMANDS it.

Deu 14:25 then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses,
26 and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine [yayin] or strong drink [shêkâr], whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing November 04, 2017 2:27 PM  

Email

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 2:34 PM  

@83 "Perhaps there needs to be a clearinghouse for folks to find such churches. It could be "The United National Conference of Uncucked Congregations.""

Yeah, but first you'd need to write a Code of Conduct, wouldn't you? {JK}

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 2:35 PM  

@84 "Him and Thomas Sowell are decent chaps. Can't we keep them and not make them go back?"

No, because they have bred, and regression to the mean prohibits it. I would not even have them live in my neighborhood -- because their children and grandchildren would visit.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 04, 2017 2:42 PM  

... how will we who claim the name Christian respond?

By claiming that Scripture is clearly denouncing a concept that did even exist when it was written, by claiming that things like racism, sexism, and slavery are sins, and denying that there is any other possible opinion on the matter. "Claiming the name of Christian" is even not the same as being Christian or knowing Christ, let alone understanding Scripture. Any damn fool heathen can claim to be a Christian, and most do.

Red Cabbage wrote:but to me that appears to be a question of nation, or even the choice of fidelity to God, rather than inborn race.
The question of nation is inherently a question of race.

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 2:45 PM  

@131 - Markku

So, the Bible surely forbids shêkâr, right? Wrong. It COMMANDS it.

Deu 14:25 then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses, 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine [yayin] or strong drink [shêkâr], whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.


Don't be silly. That is not a command toward drinking shêkâr. That's a command to celebrate God with your tithe by way of a feast that you'd actually enjoy in and of itself; because the point is to celebrate your material blessings with God, not virtue signal via ritual.

That the officially approved feast items includes shêkâr is to waylay people who want to enforce their personal code of food ethics on others, like teetotalers or vegetarians do. It's a sad note on humanity that these blunt safeguards haven't worked very well.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 2:54 PM  

@105 "it is wrong for one human being to own another. this is one issue: slavery."

Challenging your premise.

On what basis is it "wrong" to own another? It may be uncomfortable, or less preferred, or truly horrific for the owned. It is also ubiquitous amongst humans for as long a there have BEEN humans (and perhaps before; we don't know). It is part-and-parcel of humanity (i.e, UNQUESTIONED until very very recently; and yet STILL practiced today!)

Define wrong: "I don't want it to be done to me or mine"? I am (or am not) willing to fight others to keep them from enslaving me or mine"? "I don't want to do it to others"? I don't want others to do it to still others"? I am (or am not) willing to fight others to keep them from 'keeping' others?

Is wage-slavery slavery? (Is it wrong?) (Is unionization slavery?) Is offering a barely minimal wage to children to work long (sometimes dangerous) hours so they can help feed their (too large) families slavery? Is farm work by farmer's children slavery then, or is it just the customary contribution to the family?

Is selling one or more of your (too many) children into slavery (work-kind or sex-kind) wrong? Even if it's customary in your society? Were geisha's slaves? Was that wrong? How about Greek and Roman courtesans? Or Victorian prostitutes -- was that slavery or "free choice"? Was it wrong? It fed the woman and her children -- which "society" did not do.

Was it Jesus or Paul who said, "Slaves obey your masters." That is SO NOT: "slavery in bad, mmm'kay?" Obviously islam is mad for slaves, it's one or their prime resources. Buddhists do, don't have... seems to depend on sect.

It's a HUMAN thing -- on what basis do you declare it as "wrong." Or are you just mouthing platitudes because you've been told that's the opposite of wrong?

And IS IT the opposite of wrong?

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 2:58 PM  

@107 "The evil of slavery in the US was two fold. There was no way out of it; and you were born into it by the color of your skin."

Well, except for those slaves whose masters manumitted them (oh look, there is even a WORD for 'out of it"!) And except for those slaves who were allowed BY their masters to work for a wage and eventually buy themselves and sometimes their families free. And the children of freedmen -- or free men -- were not 'sentenced' by the color of their skin. And the Irish 'bound' (indentured) were not born to it by the color of their skin.

Simplistic platitudes.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 3:02 PM  

@116 "The slave traders committed a crime not only against the blacks they enslaved, but against the descendants of the whites as well."

(((The slave traders))) committed a crime

FIFY

Blogger Loyd Jenkins November 04, 2017 3:04 PM  

Becoming aware of these verses was the big step for me in becoming a wet Baptist. And this was their tithe! That will get some old timey knickers twisted.

Anonymous Avalanche November 04, 2017 3:04 PM  

@120 "The true American blacks have earned their place in the American identity."

Cuck. You have to go back!

Blogger Loyd Jenkins November 04, 2017 3:11 PM  

This post was very uncomfortable for me. For years I have thought of racism as a sin. But it is a lie to ignore the racial difference. And you have to be careful in giving the devil an inch.

So now I have to chew on it. The first commandment too -- love God with all your heart, soul, and strength.

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 3:18 PM  

@137 Avalanche

Oh, so you're one of those pro-slavery people, by one definition or another. My mistake.

The fundamental problem with slavery is that the slave owner takes God's place as Lord for the slaves he or she owns. You can't follow two masters, and so the slave master hinders God's work on earth and usurps God's authority over every human being. Both are sins.

That various human civilizations built themselves up on the backs of slavery or that life was sometimes worse for non-slaves is immaterial. Human civilization is often an ugly and brutal thing. The point is to be reformed into the kingdom of God so that we can leave such ugly brutality behind and live better, more productive lives in line with God's Lordship over every one of us.

It's not a coincidence that voluntary association codified via Capitalism has done more for humanity far more quickly than any other system. At some point, doing the right or moral thing becomes not doing the stupid thing. Chattel slavery is very, very stupid these days. Debt slavery is about to have a reckoning with fate.

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 3:30 PM  

@141 Avalanche

Cuck. You have to go back!

Awww. How cute.

That might mean something if you weren't so juvenile and stupid.

Blogger weka November 04, 2017 3:43 PM  

Can. Confirm.

Blogger weka November 04, 2017 4:15 PM  

Better put them on testosterone and human growth hormone at 40. All of them.

Blogger weka November 04, 2017 4:22 PM  

There was white slavery and there were coloured masters. If you want evil slavery try the Polynesians: the Maori took slaves on campaigns to load muskets, carry goods and as emergency rations.

There is clear rules around slavery in the old testament and teaching from Paul in the news testament

If in doubt, Do a word study on doulos.

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 4:36 PM  

@107 James Dixon

The evil of slavery in the US was two fold. There was no way out of it; and you were born into it by the color of your skin.

That is very, very wrong re:color of your skin.

Slavery was not about skin color, but more like a caste system. The predominance of black slaves in certain regions meant that free blacks were restricted from them out of convenience for keeping the slaves in line. Skin color was used as short-hand for the slave caste. You should look into the Irish slaves in America that were replaced by black slaves because the Irish couldn't cut it physically, for instance.

It's hard to get an accurate picture of the history here, but it seems like the Democrat South flipped Republican after the desegregation was enforced and ex-slaves were given a real vote (surprise, surprise). Before and during the flip, the predominately white Democrats managed the blow to their ego and way of life by transmuting the slaver mindset into one of inherent superiority over people with black skin color. This way, the caste system mentality (now based on skin color) got to live on, mostly seen in the Jim Crow laws they enacted.

They then transmuted this sort of color-based caste system into the welfare/voting plantations that Democrats manage to this date. It's just another permutation of the caste system or aristocracy mindset.

Democrats rewrote this history to pretend their later, color-based caste system was a feature of the earlier slavery-based caste system so they could then pretend to be righting the wrongs of slavery by doing what they've basically always been doing.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 04, 2017 4:57 PM  

The USA's primordial sin is neo-paganism. Who is Columbia, and why does She have a District? To give all faith to God alone is the first of the ten commandments and also of the new covenant. D.C. is literally evil as is the Federal government that it houses, yet all so-called "anti-racists" support D.C. over the various States. And that is because they are actually godless commies, anti-Yahweh and anti-Christ.

I declare that the 14th Amendment is just a symptom of America's founding sin, which is romantic paganism; and that for a Christian or a Jew, a deference to Columbia is a sign of a soul in grave sin, especially when genuflecting in the service of Babelism.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 5:02 PM  

> ... only blacks born to black slaves were born into slavery.

And how does that contradict what I said? At best you can argue my statement is incomplete.

> On what basis is it "wrong" to own another?

There are several arguments that it is. One is that all men are born in the image of God.

But for me, on the basis that it's not really possible. The claim defies reality.
People don't really even own dogs or cats except in the legal sense. They stay with us voluntarily. The idea that you can actually own another person, with their own thoughts, beliefs, and capability of independent action is ridiculous on it's face. Yes, the law may say you can, but then, as has been noted in the past "the law is an ass".

> Except for ... except for... and...

The fact that you have to search for the exceptions tells you all you need to know. The fact that the slave could initiate none of them tells you the rest. If the slaves had been purchased as indentured servants with the ability to buy their way out, and their children had been born the same, our history would have been much different.

> And the Irish 'bound' (indentured)

You know, you'd almost think the word indentured might have a different meaning than slave, since people use them differently, wouldn't you?

Anonymous T November 04, 2017 5:09 PM  

If you are an employee and/or in debt, you are a slave.

Of course this means 99% of Amerikwans are slaves.

At least negro slaves were aware of their bondage.

Blogger Retrenched November 04, 2017 5:14 PM  

The biblical text is clear: racism is a sin. It violates Jesus’ command to love our neighbors as ourselves.

How can you love your neighbor as yourself when you've been taught from childhood to hate yourself for being white?

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 5:27 PM  

@150 James Dixon

You know, you'd almost think the word indentured might have a different meaning than slave, since people use them differently, wouldn't you?

Mostly as a matter of legalese. A quick search pulled up -

"The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat."

If you were a prisoner sold into forced labor, we'd consider that person a slave these days. Partly because, for a lot of these people, dying from hard labor before the terms of your indentured servitude were up is functionally equivalent to being a slave for life.

And partly because some owners of indentured servant types transformed the contracts of servitude into slavery by not paying their indentured servants enough to buy out their debt-based contracts.

And partly because the owner of an indentured servant could sell them (via their contract) to someone else and basically dictate what labor the servant had to perform as a slave owner would.

It's a bit of a mess but more correct to consider a lot of 'indentured servants' to have been slaves in fact despite not being them in law.

So, catch up to the morality of the times?

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 04, 2017 5:32 PM  

VD wrote:Only a tremendously stupid fool could fail to notice that the West's decline coincides precisely with the decline of Christianity and Christian influence in the European nations.
It seems to correspond much more to the rise of (((Marxist))) influence; the links are far more direct.

This is why a certain guy whose initials are A.A. continues to gain lots of readers.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 04, 2017 5:40 PM  

90. I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. November 04,
Beware the church that muddles Leftist and Christian nomenclature.

The Bible is not a Living Document.


Amen!

Christians test the things of the world against Scripture.
Churchians test the Scripture against things of the world.

You're not your fucking khakis.

LuLZ-truth!
Augustine would agree.

Blogger thordaddy November 04, 2017 5:50 PM  

There is no such thing as a deracinated "Christian."

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 04, 2017 5:51 PM  

@146 weka
Better put them on testosterone and human growth hormone at 40.

Ask pastors at 30 "Brother, do you even lift?".

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 04, 2017 5:55 PM  

The evil of slavery in the US was two fold. There was no way out of it; and you were born into it by the color of your skin.

That is very, very wrong re:color of your skin.

Slavery was not about skin color, but more like a caste system.


Nope. Black West Africans were imported to the Carib and the Americas. In some parts of North America they could earn or buy freedom. There were wealthy blacks in New Orleans before 1860 who owned black slaves.

Don't project a subcontinental cultural view onto North America or South America.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 04, 2017 5:57 PM  

The actual "sin" that has been invented is not actually "racism", that's just a collection of sounds now used to shame people.

The actual "sin" that is called "racism" is Noticing differences and recognizing patterns.

Who is it that doesn't want whites Noticing patterns?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 04, 2017 6:18 PM  

OP refers to ICOC. Looks like a Babelist church.

https://infogalactic.com/info/International_Churches_of_Christ

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 04, 2017 6:45 PM  

An ignorant blowhard said: but it seems like the Democrat South flipped Republican after the desegregation was enforced and ex-slaves were given a real vote (surprise, surprise). Before and during the flip, the predominately white Democrats managed the blow to their ego and way of life by transmuting the slaver mindset into one of inherent superiority over people with black skin color. This way, the caste system mentality (now based on skin color) got to live on, mostly seen in the Jim Crow laws they enacted.

@Rashadjin,
you are really, really, really, really iincredibly, unbelievably ignorant of America, the American South, American politics, American history, and evidently human culture. Are you even an American?

Blogger Robert Browning November 04, 2017 7:05 PM  

God is a racist. With the power to create how could God be so unfair as to give some so much and others so little.

Blogger weka November 04, 2017 8:29 PM  

@Snidely. I am not American. I am a New Zealander. Slavery was abolished in 1840 when all Maori became British subjects.

And I know more USA history than @Rashadjin.

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 8:30 PM  

@161 Snidely Whiplash

you are really, really, really, really iincredibly, unbelievably ignorant of America, the American South, American politics, American history, and evidently human culture. Are you even an American?

From 1875 to 1975, Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina were about 90-100% Democrat governors.

Tennessee, Missouri and Oklahoma were about 75-90% Democrat governors.

Just prior to 1875, many of these states were hard or half Republican for a few election cycles. The Civil Rights Act of 1875 was one of the final reconstruction era laws, and wasn't enforced with many papers and markers of civil opinion opposed. If I had to guess, this was the point that Democrats started learning how to do voter fraud of various sorts and KKK style intimidation tactics.

Around The Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voting Rights Act of 1965, and through Nixon's school desegregation until his departure in 1974, many of these states started shifting back to Republican. Harder in recent years.

I fail to see how my generalization is not basically accurate.

Or are you just being Snivelly because I called out your adoption BS?

Blogger Dexter November 04, 2017 8:35 PM  

On what basis is it "wrong" to own another?

There are several arguments that it is. One is that all men are born in the image of God.


Which totally explains why early Christians, living in an empire that had millions of slaves, never said anything about it being a sin.

Anonymous Anonymous November 04, 2017 9:17 PM  

My wife made a great point once; we were talking about a sermon about following the laws of your government. She said, "Huh, so MLK Jr. was wrong then. He encouraged people to break laws which they could rightfully follow under Christian teaching. Christianity teaches that you ought to follow laws which don't require you to sin, and nothing even in Jim Crow required them to sin."

I realized she was right. I hadn't looked at it like that. MLK Jr. was a false teacher. Of course if you look into it you find out that he was a heretic, but you can actually deduce that even from his famous speeches and actions; he encouraged people to go against what Christ taught, at least if what Jesus taught was inconvenient to them personally.

Nothing about sitting in the back of a bus was sinful, nor drinking from a different water fountain, nor any of the Jim Crow restrictions. Even some form of slavery itself is apparently acceptable, though almost certainly inadvisable, under Christian teaching. MLK's teachings are contrary to scripture.

Much like when I realized that Lincoln was in the wrong in the Civil War, that one really surprised me.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2017 10:25 PM  

> You should look into the Irish slaves in America...

I did. They were indentured servants, not slaves.

> If you are an employee and/or in debt, you are a slave.

The difference being I can tell my current employer to go f himself and walk away. Yeah, then I have to find another one, but...

> If you were a prisoner sold into forced labor, we'd consider that person a slave these days.

Some people would, perhaps. And if we were to limit the term to old world slavery, they would probably even be correct. But the two as practiced in the US cannot honestly be considered equivalent.

> Which totally explains why early Christians, living in an empire that had millions of slaves, never said anything about it being a sin.

Being a sin and being wrong aren't quite the same thing.

> Even some form of slavery itself is apparently acceptable, though almost certainly inadvisable, under Christian teaching.

A fair summation, yes. I think I'd rate it as stronger than inadvisable though reading between the lines of Paul's letter.

Blogger Rashadjin November 04, 2017 11:30 PM  

@167 James Dixon

>Even some form of slavery itself is apparently acceptable, though almost certainly inadvisable, under Christian teaching.
-
A fair summation, yes. I think I'd rate it as stronger than inadvisable though reading between the lines of Paul's letter.


To expand on the above line of thinking -

The funny thing about slavery is that it deprived many to privilege very few. The funny thing about ancient civilizations is that they were horribly inefficient, subsistence or slightly above sort of deals. The funny thing about advancing knowledge is that doing so is very hard mental labor and is also very hard to do without taking yourself out of the productive, civilization survival labor force.

Have you ever considered the idea that God didn't officially ban slavery because humanity needed another couple thousand years of it in order to develop to the point where it didn't need it any more? As in, Christianity would have been dead in the cradle if there had been a 'Thou shall not enslave' verse somewhere in there?

This is one of the reasons I roll my eyes at people who sperg out on this or that verse saying/not-saying this or that about a specific issue. The Bible doesn't address every specific moral quandary that faces humanity, but it does give first order principles with which to answer every specific moral quandary. Those first order principles are directly contra the institution of slavery.

People just like to pretend otherwise.

Blogger dfordoom November 05, 2017 1:10 AM  

@44. Red Cabbage

But if they knew that I drink an occasional glass of wine, they might ask me to leave, too. I've often wondered if their church pews would be fuller if they weren't stuck on that.

The puritan strain in Christianity has always been very unhealthy. And I'm quite sure such attitudes do discourage normal healthy heterosexual men from having anything to do with such a church.

Anonymous simplytimothy November 05, 2017 1:56 AM  

@James Dixon.

Kevin MacDonald has posted Agobard of Lyon and The Origins of the Hostile Elite

At the link, we read these words of Agobard

A certain man from Cordoba arrived, fleeing from Spain. He said that he had been stolen as a little boy by a certain Jew of Lyon 24 years before and sold, and that he had fled this year with another boy from Arles who had been likewise stolen by a Jew six years earlier. When we sought out those known to the man who was from Lyon and found them, some said that others had been stolen by this same Jew, others bought and sold, and that this year another boy was stolen and sold by a Jew. At that moment it was discovered that many Christians are sold by Christians and bought by Jews and that many unspeakable things are perpetrated by them which are too foul to write.

Agobard goes on to stress that his campaign involved preaching “to Christians that they should not sell Christian slaves to [Jews]; that they should not allow these Jews to sell Christians to Spain nor to possess them as paid domestics.”





What do we see here?
We see that slavery was an accepted practice engaged in by Christians.
We see the Holy Spirit at work, molding the conscience of the elders in the Faith.
We see that slavery was not pleasant for the slaves and that Christian compassion results in an anti-slavery policy (regarding Christians).
We see that Christianity was not antagonistic towards nationalism.

As you have written, it is complicated, but we see a telos towards freedom in Christ.

As to the modern 'churches' demanding we grovel before the pagan heirs of former slaves, we owe them nothing but our contempt.

cheers.






Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2017 1:15 AM  

Rashadjin wrote:If I had to guess,
you are guessing, and your guessing muscles are overused.
You keep compounding your ignorance and drawing conclusions about well-documented movements in American politics that are fairly well understood, so that you can ascribe base motives to people who disagree with you. Just as you do to me.
Rashadjin wrote:Or are you just being Snivelly because I called out your adoption BS?
You didn't "Call me out on my BS, you flat out made up bullshit because it suited your narrative.
In shorter words you're likely to understand, you're a dishonest, ignorant, unintelligent and misinformed punk. You make up your own narrative because it suits your preconceptions, all of which were handed to you, and none of which you have ever examined.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 05, 2017 1:19 AM  

@164 Rashadjin

From 1875 to 1975, Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina were about 90-100% Democrat governors.

Tennessee, Missouri and Oklahoma were about 75-90% Democrat governors.

Just prior to 1875, many of these states were hard or half Republican for a few election cycles.


Dude, we know. The period from 1865 to 1877 even has a name:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Reconstruction_Era

Blogger James Dixon November 05, 2017 9:35 AM  

> Those first order principles are directly contra the institution of slavery.

While I agree, I don't think it's something that can be demonstrated to the satisfaction of everyone. We are fallen and prone to error, after all.

Anonymous beau November 05, 2017 11:18 AM  

at 137

Let yourself be owned by another and then decide if it is right, or wrong, regardless of what other societies do/do not do. My hunch is that under such circumstance you would not care what other cultures do/do not do vis-a-vis ownership of other human beings and yearn for your condition to be reversed.


Anonymous T November 05, 2017 12:41 PM  

“Let yourself be owned by another and then decide if it is right, or wrong, regardless of what other societies do/do not do. “

If he is an employee and/or in debt... then he is owned.

Blogger Rashadjin November 05, 2017 2:04 PM  

RE: @171 Snidely Whiplash

Hate to break it to you, but when I said "I'd guess" and "seems like", I didn't mean those things literally. I was highlighting the obvious while giving wiggle room for the specifics. Because Democrats started employing voter fraud and intimidation before 1875, and I didn't feel like looking up the dates of various notes in the civil rights era.

You keep latching onto those words under the mistaken impression that I'm 'guessing' or the like so you can try to browbeat me out of saying things you don't want to hear with your empty noise.

There is a direct link between Democrat Slavers and Democrat Jim Crow and current Democrats treating minorities like their special pets that need their special attention. That's obvious. The reason I went through the motions was to show how the idea that slavery was about skin color, despite not being true, became common knowledge.

As for my blowing hard about the slavery/skin color/indentured servants -> Stefan Molyneux. For the Jim Crow and Democrat mental transmutations -> The hard dates are even more damning than I thought.

And pulling up an adoption scenario to justify your deep antipathy towards black people is B S.

I had a chance to look up child outcomes by family types years ago, and funnily enough, those results are getting memory holed by the internet. The gist was that stable, biological parents are generally superior with adoptions sucking wind under 'other' like every other broken family. On one hand, the earlier consensus might be wrong. On the other hand, scientists, particularly social type scientists, can't do science these days. What a dilemma... (Pfft, right. I got lucky and the PDF mentions what's needed to pick out the statistical slight of hand that current 'researchers' are running.) And then the identity formation issues, plus foster care fun times, plus any other previously unfortunate circumstances prior to adoption that are often causal to those kids going up for adoption makes them a generally invalid data point to draw on for saying something about the general population, which should be obvious.

Between your name and your general inability to produce anything worth reading, the betting odds are that you're projecting, Snivelly.

But thanks, I do enjoy having to relook things up and then finding out that I'm more right than I expected.

@172 - Dude, we know. The period from 1865 to 1877 even has a name:

From my comment @164 "The Civil Rights Act of 1875 was one of the final reconstruction era laws"

Do you even read, brah? I'd mention that outlining well known history was a silly attempt to get Snivelly to make a real critique, but that's probably beyond you too.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2017 2:55 PM  

Why should I make a real critique for someone who simply bloviating, presenting his guesses and assumptions, which are obviously and completely false, as if it were a real argument?
I don't jump to your tune.
And yes, you can handily dismiss any and all data you don't like, just like every Marxist who F'ing loves science.
You're ignorant and dishonest to the core, why should anyone treat you seriously?

Blogger The Aardvark November 06, 2017 2:47 AM  

@77
"The cucking and the feminising of Christianity have been happening for well over a century. It's been a slow and gradual but inexorable process."

Look at the hymns written in that time. Compare with the robust hymns of Luther, Watts, the Wesleys.

Blogger William Meisheid November 06, 2017 1:02 PM  

VD wrote:In which christianity continues to kill the west as a cancer that it is.
Only a tremendously stupid fool could fail to notice that the West's decline coincides precisely with the decline of Christianity and Christian influence in the European nations.


Amen! MPAI

Anonymous Crew November 06, 2017 5:59 PM  

"Favoritism is stripping humanity of their soul while making preferred decisions based on the purely physical."

That was a rhetorical shiv. Now, if this statement is rooted in specious reasoning, the logical extension would apply to the made up terms cuck and Churchian.

Of course racism is an "invented term"--by our modern society. However, this concept clearly has direct links to Biblical passages on how God commanded His people be treated...and no church official ought to removed from speaking His truth on this matter.

God choses Abram and says in Genesis 12:2 "I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great so that you will be a blessing." Scripture also says in Genesis 11: 27-32 that Abraham & Sarah are from Ur, among Chaldeans. But there is no mention of the race of Abraham being important at all in scripture or that Abraham is any different than the typical middle eastern population--dark skinned peoples.

God spoke: “Let us make human beings in our image, make them reflecting our nature so they can be responsible for the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the cattle, and, yes, Earth itself, and every animal that moves on the face of Earth”. It is abundantly clear that actions taken against another person purely out of spite due to their race violates His command.

Galatians 3:28--"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

Corinthians 12: 13--For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

The very fact of the Trinity forbids us to project any secular racial connotations into the Godhead. Hence, I John 4.16, “God is love,” is sufficient Scriptural basis for our analogy.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit November 06, 2017 7:46 PM  

By EVERY single definition of racism utilized by the anti-racists

Except one. It's the one used to justify by extension all the others: race-hatred. And the racism bit comes in not as the hatred itself, mind you, but as the excuse for it.

It also good excuse-making for the sin of claiming that such-and-such member of the human race is NOT in fact human*, and I may treat him as I do plants and animals. It's the sin of the abortionist and the gulag-master shooting gusanos in the head, or the Stalinist enacting the holodomor.

The "sin" in racism (as opposed to ~~racism~~* is in the excuse-making for evil.

It's even been used as a reason to not preach the gospel to Black African slaves which was truly damnable.

So with deference to Vox Day & my fundamental disagreement on at least one key premise, it still seems to me that there's a dangerous error that keeps racism alive, and makes charges of ~~racism~~ compelling to good men.

Which, if I'm correct, also explains the strength of the Alt-Right in fighting leftists: Their hearts are hardened against the appeal of any such plea: "Surely, you don't support THAT?"

"We don't care."

Still thinking about this one, however.

@56 I see more and more truth to the idea that you can be a Christian or an Leftist...and the more people move left, the less Christianity they hold onto.

With respect to Vox Day, it's not the lies that are doing this, or not only. God seems willing to protect his people from their own foolish errors if they seek Him first. It's that progressivism demands everything from it's adherents: "All within the state, nothing outside the state;" "the personal is the political, etc." When leftism runs up against another "good," whether that's loyalty to a friend or scientific integrity or any Christian stricture, Leftism has to win. If it doesn't the adherent is cast out. God is, as He's noted more than once, a jealous God.

Which is a bit of a warning to the "well, we'll tolerate Christianity because we can get Western Civilization out of it" types. They will soon find they have neither Christianity nor civilization. I.e. the past 100 years in America and Europe.
.
*Wormtongue speak?

Blogger VII November 08, 2017 4:08 PM  

Why The Irish Church Deserves To Die
https://www.stmatthewsballyfermot.com/2017/10/08/why-the-irish-church-deserves-to-die-book-launch/

Why The Irish Church Deserves To Die not only attempts to face the harsh reality that the Irish Church is dying, but it goes even further than that. By suggesting that its death is likely, it indeed argues, at least in part, that the Irish Church actually deserves to die. It explores how the Irish Church has failed Jesus, has failed the Gospel. It is argued in these pages that whilst reform and renewal are possible, they are by no means a foregone conclusion. The author is not convinced that the Irish Church as we know it has much time left. The reality of where we are is faced, of how we got here is examined, and the truth of why we still find ourselves lingering between intensive care and morgue is discussed.

Fr. Joe
- molested by a priest at 7
- bisexual, falls in love twice a year
- speaks out for welcoming gay people into the church
- appears on the state's flagship television programme to great appreciation
- well liked locally, at least by older female members of the congregation

Blogger Luke November 08, 2017 4:13 PM  

U.N.C.U.C.
Brilliant!

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