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Thursday, November 16, 2017

Mailvox: this is how you do it

Yesterday, I responded to an email from this gentleman which indicated that he did not understand how rhetoric worked. My response was not particularly gentle. This was his reaction:
Your email and blog post were humbling and appreciated. I read both of your SJW books last weekend after hearing about them on Instapundit. Your message and stand for Christianity inspired me to check out your blog and eventually contact you.

Clearly I’m misunderstanding one of your fundamental lessons on communicating with the rabid left. Also, another mistake I made was to assume that SJW was how the left describes itself which lead me down the path of “better” rhetoric.

On the tangential topic of the impact your books are making, I was also inspired to contact [someone currently under SJW attack.] I sent him a note of support and the link to SJW Always Lie. He was very appreciative and I’m hopeful your book will help him save his job.

The main point of this email is to thank you for taking the time to respond and continue to teach, especially when your “students” frustrate you. Thanks. What you are doing is so important. I appreciate it.
Some of you have asked about the difference between Delta and Gamma. Well, you've seen Gamma responses; this is not what those look like. This is how a competent individual accepts authoritative criticism and correction.

"Oh, did I get it wrong? All right. Let me try it again. Thanks."

Notice the complete lack of defensiveness, the total unwillingness to rationalize or justify or explain away his previous mistake, and the complete absence of bitterness or unease at being told he was incorrect. That's the difference between a Delta confidence and Gamma butthurt.

This is why most men like and respect Deltas, regardless of their own social rank. Deltas don't create drama or cause trouble when they are accurately criticized, they just correct course and carry on.

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77 Comments:

Blogger Anno Ruse November 16, 2017 11:09 AM  

As a recovering Gamma who didn't receive lessons on "How To Be A Man" from his father (cuz Pop was absent), your blog has been immensely helpful in straightening my life out. You don't hear it enough but you're doing great work here, Vox.

Blogger JACIII November 16, 2017 11:10 AM  

WOW! Stunning, but this man really wants to learn to beat down SJWs. I suspect he has been their victim in the past or someone close to him has.

There is nothing like that feeling of finally having that missing piece of the puzzle that lets you understand something you've been beating your head against the wall over.

Anonymous DissidentRight November 16, 2017 11:16 AM  

Keep Calm and Delta On (Recovering Gamma)

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira November 16, 2017 11:19 AM  

This is a good morale post. It's useful to be able to at least identify gammas: Don't waste your time on them. There are plenty of good people out there who are reaching into the darkness for answers.

Blogger Brad Matthews November 16, 2017 11:24 AM  

Good on him. No hint of emotional ego hurt. Welcome to the blog.

Blogger Rabbi B November 16, 2017 11:26 AM  

Refreshing.

Blogger Desdichado November 16, 2017 11:29 AM  

He's a better man than me in that regard. I can accept correction, but not that effortlessly and gracefully, I admit.

Blogger Nate73 November 16, 2017 11:31 AM  

I wonder if a component of gamma rage is just a low tolerance for hardship, aka weak amygdala? One thing I've noticed about acting out of anger or frustration is impatience combined with actions disproportionate to the problem you're dealing with. E.g. slamming a door instead of shutting it, smacking a fly with a closed fist instead of an open hand, or simply punching someone in the face. In the case of gamma, being proven wrong is a hardship, an irritant, something you can only tolerate for so long before you explode or create drama or something. If my theory is correct then gammas can improve by doing pushups and lifting weights.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer November 16, 2017 11:36 AM  

If my theory is correct then gammas can improve by doing pushups and lifting weights.

I think that might help, but you would need someone to model correct behavior as well. Someone who is also undergoing hardship, and sharing that hardship with you. Also, I would think the hardship would need to have an emotional component and be undertaken with a group. Of men of course.

Anonymous Gamma Detector November 16, 2017 11:46 AM  

VD,
That makes you a Gamma since you are frequently wrong, refuse to admit it and become very defensive when confronted with any of your many errors.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 16, 2017 11:48 AM  

"If my theory is correct then gammas can improve by doing pushups and lifting weights."

Both the physical exertion and adding disciplined schedule help clear the mind and heart of distractions and illuminate weakness to improve, adding motivation to do so.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 16, 2017 11:49 AM  

And the butt-hurt troll moths slam into the light.

Blogger Nate November 16, 2017 11:57 AM  

"they just correct course and carry on."

and by carry on... we of course mean... carry on doing all of the vital work that absolutely has to get done.

Everything that matters is handled by Deltas.

Blogger VD November 16, 2017 11:57 AM  

That makes you a Gamma since you are frequently wrong, refuse to admit it and become very defensive when confronted with any of your many errors.

Incorrect. Observably false. Total falsehood. Verdict: typical gamma projection and delusion.

Notice how the Gamma ALWAYS tries to make it personal. Because, for him, everything is personal.

Anonymous a_peraspera November 16, 2017 12:02 PM  

OT - Al Franken next on the chopping block for sexual harassment: http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

You wanna witch hunt? Let's witch hunt, faggots.

Blogger Nate November 16, 2017 12:04 PM  

"Incorrect. Observably false."

See Free Trade.

Blogger Matt November 16, 2017 12:06 PM  

Damn, Vox, good thing Al never took you up on your challenge. You might have been molested into a coma!

Blogger Nate November 16, 2017 12:09 PM  

Al Franken.... still not as creepy as Joe Biden.

OpenID dreadilkzee November 16, 2017 12:11 PM  

I am just surprised the Gamma didn't get that spit out before comment 10... Still, it is in the top 10. *golf clap*

Blogger Rabbi B November 16, 2017 12:14 PM  

I think gammas are incredibly self-absorbed and narcissistic. They truly believe people are thinking about them all of the time and worry constantly about how people perceive them, and they want be perceived as anything but flawed or weak.

They are unable to laugh at themselves and would rather blame their weaknesses on the ineptitude of others rather than admit them and do the hard work of improving. God help the person who dares laugh at them or criticizes them.

When they criticize others it is not to help or improve others and certainly not because they care about or empathize with others, but only to elevate themselves by putting others down.

When they are completely called-out and exposed as frauds, they simply double down and bravely retreat as the misunderstood secret kings everyone knows they are, but are loathe to admit.

Gammas are the loneliest, bitterest, and most insecure souls on earth and everyone knows it but them.

Ultimately it is a spiritual problem. We are all self-serving to varying degrees, but the gamma more than most. The Son of Man declared that He came not to be served, but to serve and taught that the greatest among us will be the servant of all. He also taught His disciples to follow His example of service on the night He was betrayed. (cf. John 13)

The first thing the gamma needs to start doing is identifying who he can serve and start doing so, and without expecting a reward or recognition for doing so. The gamma needs to get over himself and get out of himself so that he can fulfill what is everyone's true purpose during our short pilgrimage here on earth: serve.

It's no mistake that we are all going to be judged by the measure of our service to God and to others when we all appear before the Judge of all the earth ... we should all be aspiring to be worthy of hearing these words:

‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ (cf. Matthew 25)

The Gamma is interested in his own happiness and thinks he should be in charge of everything while being faithful in nothing. He is in for a rude awakening.

“His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed ...whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.

And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ (cf. Matthew 25)

God helps us all...and especially the gamma.

Blogger Matthew November 16, 2017 12:17 PM  

Tasty tasty ankles.

Blogger slarrow November 16, 2017 12:17 PM  

Al Franken.... still not as creepy as Joe Biden.

Man, is that ever a contest with no winners....

Blogger Student in Blue November 16, 2017 12:20 PM  

I had thought this was veering into Beta (as defined by Vox, for all the spergs).

The average guys I ran across, whenever they got corrected and had responded to it, essentially did the same but there was always just a little bit of grumbling and griping, and they'll think about it every once in a while but they never took it personally like Gammas do.

It takes a sense of self-assuredness that I didn't think was always inherent with Deltas in order to confidently state your mistake clearly and move on from there.

Could Vox, or someone else with a better grasp on the difference between Beta/Delta, please explain the difference to me?

Blogger MeneMene November 16, 2017 12:27 PM  

This level of manly humility is so rare as to be miraculous.

Blogger Nate November 16, 2017 12:28 PM  

Its that deltas don't grouse or grumble. More often than not though their grousing and grumbling is entirely justified as they are required to work to fix mistakes others have made or work harder or more because of dumb decisions others have made. Deltas tend to take legitimate correction that directly helps them be more effective pretty well.

Blogger Demonic Professor El November 16, 2017 12:37 PM  

@23 Student in Blue

From my understanding, Betas usually stay in subservient position. Deltas are more like apprentices - seemingly lower than Betas, but willing to learn and adapt. Regular dudes, if you will.

I remember Alpha Game had a good outlay of them:
http://alphagameplan.blogspot.fr/2011/03/socio-sexual-hierarchy.html

Blogger tuberman November 16, 2017 12:39 PM  

Has Gamma vs Delta vs Sigma responses to boy on boy physical bullying ever been discussed? Just curious.

Blogger Demonic Professor El November 16, 2017 12:40 PM  

@25 Nate

Said it better than I did :)

Yeah, I would say that's the telltale sign of Deltas vs. Gammas - the latter complains about work in general while Deltas complain about incompetents. Deltas will actually work on doing stuff about it. Gammas will whine. Or go to Human Resources, social media, etc.

Blogger slarrow November 16, 2017 12:53 PM  

I also get the impression (and I could be misreading this, not knowing this writer or his usual style) that Vox's criticism really did sting this guy. But he's choosing to accept it and deliberately thank Vox for the criticism. Note the dignified, almost formal language. It's a bit distancing, suggesting that he's holding the critique at arm's length and responding to it intellectually and not emotionally. I imagine this guy standing at ramrod attention while saying this. (There's a reason we call them "stand up guys".)

That's Delta. A Beta would shrug it off and be more casual, it seems to me--it's his job to offer alternatives, but if the higher-up rejects it, that's his call. No skin off the Beta's nose. A Gamma, of course, would react emotionally and not intellectually with lots of passive-aggressive snark because of the fear of direct confrontation. That's my (admittedly speculative) reading.

Blogger James Dixon November 16, 2017 1:01 PM  

> I also get the impression (and I could be misreading this, not knowing this writer or his usual style) that Vox's criticism really did sting

That's the point. We'll never know.

It may very well have have stung, and he may have been hurt and angry. But he stepped back, regrouped, analyzed the response, and agreed that it was correct. Then he wrote a nice letter apologizing and thanking Vox for the correction. That's how men are supposed to do it.

I'm not as good at as I should be.

Blogger weka November 16, 2017 1:02 PM  

From my understanding, Betas usually stay in subservient position. Deltas are more like apprentices - seemingly lower than Betas, but willing to learn and adapt. Regular dudes, if you will.

You are conflating two things. The heirarchy is one of attraction, and you can not do that much about your grade. You are either highly attractive to women or you are not.

Alphas are, Betas are their wingmen. Deltas are not, but in a firm they are the guys you want. They can lead, but they generally are -- as most guys note here -- the stand up guys. You want them on your team.

Women find gammas repulsive. We don't like them, or the omegas, because they fail the dickhead test.

The key is (paraphrasing VD, whose second book on this is good) is to admit you are wrong, and be prepared to change. Our education system says this lowers your self esteem. But accepting correction is the path of wisdom.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 16, 2017 1:03 PM  

The average guys I ran across, whenever they got corrected and had responded to it, essentially did the same but there was always just a little bit of grumbling and griping, and they'll think about it every once in a while but they never took it personally like Gammas do.

@23 Student in Blue
I sometimes get a flash of anger when I'm corrected, directed at myself -- if I was too stupid, lazy, or careless to not get it correct the first time.

The guy in the OP could have been the same way, but we'll never know, since it was over e-mail.

I agree that Delta/Beta differences are the most difficult to see. I'm not quite convinced that Betas are nothing more than very high Deltas -- I'd like to have any substantive differences explained, since I don't recall any such thing ever being done really.

Anonymous Causal Lurker November 16, 2017 1:04 PM  

Nate73 and Ron Winkleheimer,

This also needs a good man for a role model (Delta or Alpha with additional clue), so gammas and youngsters can see what patience, fortitude, etc. are expressed as in real life. Good thoughts there.

Slamming the door or raising your voice to express and channel annoyance - you're showing emphasis, after patiently explaining or correcting mistakes. They're not the first response like a child or SJW throwing a tantrum, but a late step to indicate annoyance or disapproval. You get attention to keep someone else focused on the real situation, which is to solve the problem at hand. Figure out the problem, fix it, and everyone's OK; show approval, go get a beer later.

Just another thought, after reading Nate's comment about carrying on and doing the vital work. That kind of mentoring or role model is vital for the young men around us. They're always watching, sometimes to gamma-burst and sometimes for guidance, so we have to provide good example (and good words if you need to speak). A good example give them a template to model their own behavior. I'll have to pray for more patience and wisdom, to keep giving the good example and carry on that way. Probably should also pray for deliverance from the Glock sales brochure.

End of lunchtime thoughts, back to giving good example with a side of (emphasized) patience. :)

Blogger tuberman November 16, 2017 1:09 PM  



Yes, and I believe smart Deltas actually pick and chose who they want to learn from, yet they may appear to be just another team member, they actively seek out better teams and team leaders to stand with for their purpose.

Blogger Rabbi B November 16, 2017 1:14 PM  

slarrow wrote:I also get the impression (and I could be misreading this, not knowing this writer or his usual style) that Vox's criticism really did sting this guy. But he's choosing to accept it and deliberately thank Vox for the criticism. Note the dignified, almost formal language. It's a bit distancing, suggesting that he's holding the critique at arm's length and responding to it intellectually and not emotionally. I imagine this guy standing at ramrod attention while saying this. (There's a reason we call them "stand up guys".)

That's Delta. A Beta would shrug it off and be more casual, it seems to me--it's his job to offer alternatives, but if the higher-up rejects it, that's his call. No skin off the Beta's nose. A Gamma, of course, would react emotionally and not intellectually with lots of passive-aggressive snark because of the fear of direct confrontation. That's my (admittedly speculative) reading.


These passages gave me the opposite impression you posited:

Your email and blog post were humbling and appreciated.

Nothing stilted here.

Your message and stand for Christianity inspired me to check out your blog and eventually contact you.

Expresses a genuine interest to learn more.

Clearly I’m misunderstanding one of your fundamental lessons on communicating with the rabid left.

Genuine admission that he is missing something. The fault is his, not Vox or anyone else.

Also, another mistake I made was to assume that SJW was how the left describes itself which lead me down the path of “better” rhetoric.

He has identified more than one mistake. This is an individual who is self-aware and desires to learn and improve. He is not interested ion being right as much as he is interested in understanding what is right. He is unafraid to face the possibility that he could be wrong or is missing something.

The main point of this email is to thank you for taking the time to respond and continue to teach, especially when your “students” frustrate you. Thanks. What you are doing is so important. I appreciate it.

Best passage in the email. The main point is to express gratitude. Again, I do not sense anything insincere or stilted in his response. The criticism may have stung, (most criticism does) and if it did, he is not compelled to highlight it or make it about himself.

It's a bit distancing ... holding the criticism at arm's length.

Nah. This is someone who has fully absorbed the criticism and is truly grateful for the lesson. Something compelled him to take the time to write this email to Vox. Overall, it's a great response and one from which we all have something profound to learn.

Blogger tuberman November 16, 2017 1:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger S1AL November 16, 2017 1:16 PM  

If gammas are the alpha ambition without the alpha goods, betas are the alpha goods without the alpha ambition.

Give or take.

Blogger David The Good November 16, 2017 1:23 PM  

Another telling thing about the note above: this gentleman can actually write.

His sentences are clear and well-constructed. It makes sense that he's a dialectical thinker rather than a rhetoric user.

Decent written communication has become so rare that it's refreshing to encounter.

Blogger Lovekraft November 16, 2017 1:39 PM  

Completely reasonable and respectable reply by him.

That said, beware the honeypot and whether he's trying to get you to let your guard down.

But who am I kidding. VD wrote the book on how to deal with deceptive media/SJWs.

Blogger Gordon November 16, 2017 1:46 PM  

Understanding the difference between rhetoric and dialectic, and being able to identify them on the fly, is challenging for me. I'm a fairly good communicator. But it's been an education for me to read Vox's commentaries on this, and seeing how he applies his knowledge. There have been plenty of moments when I thought, well, he's gone too far there. Most of those thoughts, reconsidered, were wrong. I don't have an instinctual understanding. But I can learn.

Blogger slarrow November 16, 2017 1:53 PM  

Rabbi B, we don't really disagree. I didn't use the term "stilted", nor did I mean to imply that he was insincere in any way. Rather, I mentioned "formal", "dignified", and "distanced" because of the precision in the language and the fact that it is a considered response, not a knee-jerk reaction. Like David the Good observed, this is dialectic and not rhetoric. That's impressive since, as Vox pointed out, his response wasn't exactly gentle.

Indeed, if he was indeed stung and responded like this, it makes him more admirable.

Blogger Student in Blue November 16, 2017 2:18 PM  

@Rabbi B, slarrow
It's a bit distancing ... holding the criticism at arm's length.

Nah. This is someone who has fully absorbed the criticism and is truly grateful for the lesson.


This is an interesting couple of sentences to reflect upon. It occurs to me that a very modern assumption is that if the language being used is rhetorical, that must mean that emotion is the driving force, and vice versa with dialectic and reason.

It is very, entirely possible to hold the criticism not at arm's length, which means emotional distance, but to hold it to your chest and still not be primarily driven by your emotions. We humans are not purely beings of reason or emotion, after all. But it is a common assumption that we must be all one way or all the other.

I believe it's a very large reason why people will constantly accuse Vox of being "emotional" whenever he uses rhetoric.

@discussion about beta/delta

Appreciate the discussion. It's still very hazy, but you guys have given me some food for thought.

Blogger VD November 16, 2017 2:19 PM  

That said, beware the honeypot and whether he's trying to get you to let your guard down.

(shakes head) What is wrong with some of you? I seriously wonder about that sometimes. Let my guard down to permit what? Is he going to hit me up for some naked pictures now? A loan?

There have been plenty of moments when I thought, well, he's gone too far there. Most of those thoughts, reconsidered, were wrong.

I get that a lot. But remember, I don't invent any of this stuff. Literally none of it. All I'm doing is recognizing the patterns.

Anonymous Avalanche November 16, 2017 2:32 PM  

@35 "This is someone who has fully absorbed the criticism and is truly grateful for the lesson. Something compelled him to take the time to write this email to Vox. Overall, it's a great response and one from which we all have something profound to learn."

I'd also suggest that perhaps this writer's ... deep immersion learning ... (i.e., reading both SJW books over the weekend) may have given him an eye-opening epiphany. I had one such at work 20+ years ago. Attended a seminar on risk communication (at a nuclear reservation) and the speaker provided me with a life-changing view of communication! Changed my viewpoint on my career and everything I have done since.

When you catch a glimpse of what's correct in the world, the world is never the same -- and admitting so is no hardship! (Oh, and Anonymous Conservative's work had the same earth-shattering revision of the world as I knew it.)

Vox Day also provides that sort of glimpse into reality, which can be hard to find. (Albeit, the view(s) he provides takes more thought and work and re-creation of self. The above two 'revisions' were lightning strikes, which added but did not require a 'disassembly' of parts of self. Vox's teachings require a sorting out and discarding, as well as adding to and moving forward.

I describe Vox to folks I'm hoping to get to 'try' him with: "he has the same streak of 'apparent cruelty' that my husband seemed to have. But it's not cruelty at all -- he merely shows you an accurate of view of reality, which SEEMS cruel because it's unvarnished and soundly based."

(Perhaps this Mailvox writer benefited from the same clear view!)

Anonymous Athor Pel November 16, 2017 2:39 PM  

"43. Blogger VD November 16, 2017 2:19 PM
...
But remember, I don't invent any of this stuff. Literally none of it. All I'm doing is recognizing the patterns.
"



And all the people that love understanding systems thank you for it.

I saw lots of things going on in personal relations when I was younger but had no trust in my own observations nor a reliable framework to fit the observations in.

Blogger Rabbi B November 16, 2017 2:47 PM  

Rabbi B, we don't really disagree. I didn't use the term "stilted", nor did I mean to imply that he was insincere in any way.

Fair enough. It was your comment that you imagined "this guy standing at ramrod attention while saying this" which prompted my reply.

FWIW, I didn't get the sense you were being critical, but just making some observations.

Blogger slarrow November 16, 2017 3:36 PM  

No worries, Rabbi B. They were good observations, too, particularly this one: "Overall, it's a great response and one from which we all have something profound to learn."

Anonymous 4388 November 16, 2017 4:18 PM  

My loyalty to this blog was cemented when I watched Vox A) Retract an incorrect claim, and B) Respond to subsequent claims that he was giving in to pressure by providing about 20 links demonstrating his retraction was justified.

For the same reason, I follow Molyneaux and John Wright. On many points I believe them to be wrong. On no point do I believe them to be liars.

As for whether this man is emotional: You don't need to be even slightly unemotional or grateful to respond this way. You need only be careful, to be honest, and to have a commitment to honorable behavior that exceeds your emotion. If the man held the sting at arms length and penned this missive, his character is great. If he could not but soak in resentment and shame, but penned it anyhow because it was the right response, his character may well be greater still.

No dishonest apology would identify multiple errors and potential corrections.

Whether he repented with sullenness or cheer, yet he repented with sincerity and dignity. I would do well to emulate him.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 16, 2017 4:35 PM  

" Is he going to hit me up for some naked pictures now? A loan?"

LOL, now that's comedy.

Everybody knows those are reserved the super-secret-special-vile-inner-circle-of-dread-ilk-minions.

Anonymous Simplytimothy November 16, 2017 4:44 PM  

"This level of manly humility is so rare as to be miraculous."

It's the norm among the working class whites I work with. It's expected behavior, our social norm. The words of St. Paul to build each other up in Christ are done

Blogger slarrow November 16, 2017 4:52 PM  

"If the man held the sting at arms length and penned this missive, his character is great. If he could not but soak in resentment and shame, but penned it anyhow because it was the right response, his character may well be greater still."

Tru dat.

It's also possible that I may be entirely off in how the guy actually felt. But since the initial question was "beta or delta", that's what struck me as the possible distinction. Shorthand version:

Beta: doesn't feel the sting
Delta: feels the sting, behaves honorably anyway
Gamma: feels the sting, behaves dishonorably

Regardless, I'm with you here:

"Whether he repented with sullenness or cheer, yet he repented with sincerity and dignity. I would do well to emulate him."

Anonymous badhairday November 16, 2017 4:55 PM  

Gammas; if you wish to change, pop your bible into a drawer somewhere and take up the Daoist water meditation.

I won't lie to you. Its a brutal pathway, and you may lose everything on the way, but at least you won't die of boredom and loneliness.

(You can always take up Christianity once you've finished)

Anonymous Viiidad November 16, 2017 4:58 PM  

patrick kelly wrote:" Is he going to hit me up for some naked pictures now? A loan?"

LOL, now that's comedy.

Everybody knows those are reserved the super-secret-special-vile-inner-circle-of-dread-ilk-minions.



No, not us. We know he'd just take it back. HBD is a cruel mistress.

Anonymous TD November 16, 2017 5:19 PM  

The fact that I could admit that I was wrong was what saved me from being a total gamma.

Anonymous JM November 16, 2017 5:19 PM  

Vox, I really think you ought to consider writing a book about the socio-sexual hierarchy. That was the most interesting part of SJWADD, and it deserves a much more thorough treatment. Not another "how to act like an alpha to pick up women" guide--we have enough of those--but a book about the hierarchy and how it works in other areas of dealing with people. And a how it works in females, too. Something to think about.

Anonymous vfm November 16, 2017 5:37 PM  

"Let's see if Messrs. McConnnell, Cruz, and Ryan can summon up the same outrage for actual sexual harassment 11 years ago for which there is photographic evidence as they have for the nonexistent kind that didn't happen 40 years ago."

Those cowardly, traitorous, asshats? Ya right.

Anonymous Jack November 16, 2017 5:44 PM  

"There have been plenty of moments when I thought, well, he's gone too far there. Most of those thoughts, reconsidered, were wrong."

Yep, me too. But I've learned that the odds are against me. So I wait and observe what happens while keeping my mouth shut.

"It's the norm among the working class whites I work with. It's expected behavior, our social norm. The words of St. Paul to build each other up in Christ are done."

I can't imagine a non-Christian having this kind of real humility. Maybe a sincere Buddhist or other religious person, but not an atheist, whose ego is literally all that he has.

Anonymous map November 16, 2017 5:44 PM  

The one thing everyone needs to understand: unless I see Senate and House seats being given up or people going to jail or companies shutdown or bankruptcies through lawsuits, I will regard all of this Hollywood stuff as nothing but theater.

What has Harvey Weinstein seriously lost so far? Reputation? Shaming? He still has his money. He is still out of jail. All of this is still feminism run amok.

I am waiting for the pedos to be found out.

Anonymous Anonymous November 16, 2017 7:45 PM  

Gammas don't punch people in the face

Blogger WynnLloyd November 16, 2017 7:56 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 16, 2017 8:01 PM  

I am the same way. I punish myself severely though I outwardly accept criticism without objection. I wonder where codependents/inverted narcissists/empaths place on the social hierarchy. I'm guessing omega, like with most debilitating psychological conditions.
It's interesting though. This guy will probably take VD's guidance to heart and rip a new one in some SJW in the future.

Blogger Lazarus November 16, 2017 9:28 PM  

map wrote:I am waiting for the pedos to be found out.

feminists and pedos are allies.

Anonymous Wooly November 17, 2017 12:06 AM  

Vox, you've slapped me down more than once. Hell, you're ten years my junior, and I deserved it every time. Back when I was Taqiyyologist or Taqiyyotomist, I guess. Changed my nic online because why would I name my online identity after something I hate? Wooly Phlox is a nice flower. Taqiyya sucks. But I understand exactly what you're saying, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. It'd be neat if you could teach me how to fight hand-to-hand, too, but I may be too old for that training. I'll stick with rhetoric, dialectic, and this site's commentariat.

If my bossman assigns someone much younger than me to be MY bossman, I accept that, because the guy knows more about the subject than I do.

If he tells me I'm wrong (or "sperging"), I acknowledge that he's probably right, instead of slinking away and ragging on Vox from some other site.

No, I keep coming back. And send people here.

Some people are just to prideful to be educated.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope November 17, 2017 3:08 AM  

As has been noted already, the Delta label is something to be embraced. They are the salt of the earth, and there are the best team members to have around.
Betas are also excellent to have as team members, as they get stuff done, but can be trusted to take a bunch of leadership jobs too. Alphas require too much oversight, but at least they get stuff done. Or get others to do it for them.

Gammas can only be used for extremely short term, quick projects that don't give any opportunity for them to sabotage and create drama. Even Omegas are easier to work with than Gammas. Omegas are grateful that someone is acknowledging their existence in a positive way. Just don't put them in a role with a lot of social interaction, customer interaction, or interaction with women.

This man is either a Delta or Beta. I'm leaning toward Beta, due to his quick acknowledgment and lack of butt hurt. And also because he quickly passed the book along to a friend who needed it right away. Perhaps a Delta may take a little while before deciding to take that action. But a Beta has much of the Alpha take charge mindset.

Blogger wreckage November 17, 2017 3:09 AM  

As long as we're confessing, I am terrible at accepting correction, but very good at remembering and applying it.

Part of honour is doing what's hard.

Anonymous CoolHand November 17, 2017 4:50 AM  

Where does "Asshole" fit in on the spectrum?

Asking for a friend...

Anonymous Crew November 17, 2017 7:55 AM  

Rabbi B…

The man didn’t need correction, nor be artificially labeled a Delta by “helpmates” in a system that is ultimately capricious in nature. He sought advice from someone and chose to take it into account.

“It's no mistake that we are all going to be judged by the measure of our service to God and to others when we all appear before the Judge of all the earth ... we should all be aspiring to be worthy of hearing these words”

Indeed, by Him, not by His fellow men who employ an arbitrary hierarchal structure.

“God helps us all...and especially the gamma.”

And in particular men who pass judgment.

Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Blogger James Dixon November 17, 2017 8:40 AM  

> The fact that I could admit that I was wrong was what saved me from being a total gamma.

That's quite likely true for me as well.

Blogger William Meisheid November 17, 2017 10:25 AM  

badhairday wrote:Gammas; if you wish to change, pop your bible into a drawer somewhere and take up the Daoist water meditation.

I won't lie to you. Its a brutal pathway, and you may lose everything on the way, but at least you won't die of boredom and loneliness.

(You can always take up Christianity once you've finished)


Or you can dive headfirst into your Christianity and use it to correct your erroneous understandings about yourself.

For example: Jeremiah 31:19 "For after I turned back, I repented; And after I was instructed, I smote on my thigh; I was ashamed and also humiliated Because I bore the reproach of my youth."

2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

James 5:16 "Confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed."

There is much more but that is enough for any real Christian to begin the healing journey to real manhood.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2017 10:51 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rabbi B November 17, 2017 10:55 AM  

Crew wrote:Rabbi B…

The man didn’t need correction, nor be artificially labeled a Delta by “helpmates” in a system that is ultimately capricious in nature. He sought advice from someone and chose to take it into account.

“It's no mistake that we are all going to be judged by the measure of our service to God and to others when we all appear before the Judge of all the earth ... we should all be aspiring to be worthy of hearing these words”

Indeed, by Him, not by His fellow men who employ an arbitrary hierarchal structure.

“God helps us all...and especially the gamma.”

And in particular men who pass judgment.

Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.


I'm not 100% sure where you're coming from with your comment, but I'll take a stab at it.

Recognizing Biblical principles in an "arbitrary hierarchal structure" does not translate into an endorsement of that structure as somehow authoritative. The Bible is the ultimate and final authority on any matter. I simply recognize that all truth is God's truth and I occasionally point that out now and then if I think it's relevant or helpful.

Recognizing and highlighting patterns of behavior is not passing judgment in the sense that we are condemning someone to hell or writing them off as a hopeless cause. We make judgments on one another all of the time. Everyone does. I make a judgment when I do not allow my children to associate with people whom I judge to be of questionable character. I cannot see what is going on inside any man's heart, but I can assess a man's actions and behavior and draw certain conclusions. The "hierarchy" does this and so does the Bible, because truth is truth and we measure and determine truth by what God has said and revealed to us, which is why I drew some of the parallels that I did.

My point was that the "hierarchy" may be a convenient way to describe observable behaviors and patterns, but we must recognize that the solution to correcting these negative behaviors is found within the pages of the most reliable source of truth ever revealed to man. There's nothing original in the hierarchy, for as a wise man once said, there is nothing new under the sun.

The behavioral patterns which are indicative of the "gamma" in the "capricious hierarchy" are remarkably consistent with the "fool" who we find throughout the Proverbs, for example. The labels (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, ...) are just that, labels and convenient definitions which help communicate and describe behaviors that have been around since man decided he was wiser than his Creator.

Take it or leave it, but to imply that I have somehow been taken captive by "vain philosophy and empty deceit" because I recognize some Biblical truths and identifying the true source of the solution what ails us all is, in my humble estimation, a bit obtuse.

No one was "passing judgment" on Delta-man, but simply commending him on his response which most of us here judged favorably because his response was aligned with truths which God Himself has promulgated.

A tree is known by its fruit and God has hardwired into all of us the ability to recognize a rotten apple when we see one.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 17, 2017 2:08 PM  

Where does "Asshole" fit in on the spectrum?

Asking for a friend...


@65 CoolHand
You'll have to give some specifics about said asshole's attitude and behavior. Several of the types would be considered "assholes", and by different people:

Omega: may consider everyone to be assholes depending on how bitter he is, but especially Gammas and white knights of whatever rank
Gamma: considers Alphas, Sigmas, and Betas to be assholes
Delta: considers some Alphas, Betas, and Gammas to be assholes
Sigma: considers all Gammas and some Alphas to be assholes
Beta: considers some Alphas to be assholes
Alpha: doesn't use the term, prefers "pussy" instead

Anonymous Crew November 18, 2017 10:22 AM  

“Recognizing Biblical principles in an "arbitrary hierarchal structure" does not translate into an endorsement of that structure as somehow authoritative.”

Except those men, Christian or otherwise, who create and perpetuate that structure make a series of subjective behavioral and personality appraisals as its foundational pieces. Any protestation about this label or refusal to act in the prescribed manner brings about a pejorative response. The Christian alpha or sigma who “properly corrects” the lower rungs of the hierarchy for offensive behavior to mankind would likely insist he is under the auspices of the Lord to make such a correction. Of course, the “competent individual” is indeed remorseful for their conduct that is in direct opposition to God’s word. However, that designation still remains arbitrary and capricious by men, with actual Christian masculinity being subsumed in the process.

“The Bible is the ultimate and final authority on any matter. I simply recognize that all truth is God's truth and I occasionally point that out now and then if I think it's relevant or helpful.”

Is this sexual-social hierarchy the equivalent of “God’s truth”? Would He Himself agree with the premises?

“We make judgments on one another all of the time. Everyone does. I make a judgment when I do not allow my children to associate with people whom I judge to be of questionable character. I cannot see what is going on inside any man's heart, but I can assess a man's actions and behavior and draw certain conclusions.”

But those conclusions are based on preconceived notions as to what constitutes manly and unmanly behavior, which in reality are personal preferences rather than observable fact. Any and all questioning of that judgment is summarily dismissed as being a man who will continue to flounder in life until they recognize their own failings. In other words, Christian men become a slave to this man-made, rather than God’s, ideal of masculinity. Thus, men dictate how “wise” they are when it comes to insisting that Biblical truths are intertwined with a structure that is other than universally recognized by our Christian brethren.

“The "hierarchy" does this and so does the Bible, because truth is truth and we measure and determine truth by what God has said and revealed to us, which is why I drew some of the parallels that I did.”

By assuming that Biblical truths and man-made truths about what constitutes masculine behavior are unquestionably parallel about masculinity. It may be “convenient” for those men to articulate what they believe are definitive aspects of a man’s conduct because they subscribe to this hierarchy, but what about those men who find definitive flaws in how decisions are arrived? What happens when those men challenge the structure by arguing that the “unvarnished truth of the structure” is in reality a set of assumptions predicated on sophistry? The lesson learned here is that this “hierarchy” is other than consistent with the Good Book. Paul had focused on a positive depiction of the Colossian believers and their faithfulness. Here, he transitioned to warning them against false teaching, that being how the “structure” is indeed part and parcel to Christian ideals about masculinity.

Anonymous Crew November 18, 2017 10:23 AM  

“No one was "passing judgment" on Delta-man, but simply commending him on his response which most of us here judged favorably because his response was aligned with truths which God Himself has promulgated.

No, there is the assumption his response was absolutely aligned with truths which God Himself has promulgated. It is thought to be that the writer is a “Delta”. Would he described himself in that manner? If not, would there be condemnation that his own view of himself is rooted on self-deceit? And the commending part is a “passing judgment”--the man responded in what the structure demanded to be the “appropriate way”--recognizing his mistakes and taking the advice from a man who is clearly his superior. Thus, he avoids the nasty label of “gamma” had he acted in a markedly different way. Could not there be a legitimate argument made by are Christian men who view this structure as merely predicated on self-deluding, worldly philosophical “tricks”? Must all Christians submit to this structure? Would God truly judge in this exact manner?

Blogger Cool Guy449xx_420 November 20, 2017 6:48 AM  

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Blogger dienw November 20, 2017 4:49 PM  

I missed seeing this when it was posted. Thanks for behavioral reinforcement.

This is another way of saying be humble and teachable before those your recognize as having the authority and ability, in short, wisdom. This recognition borders on spiritual perception.

Anonymous Crew November 20, 2017 7:42 PM  

"This is another way of saying be humble and teachable before those your recognize as having the authority and ability, in short, wisdom."

Apparent wisdom. It's really in the eye of the beholder.

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