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Wednesday, November 01, 2017

Not so good for the economy

Americans are increasingly wondered where, precisely, are the promised benefits of immigration, in light of wages stagnant for 40 years, declining wealth, increasing debt, and the occasional bloodbath:
Plainly, at least from native-born Americans’ point of view, Mr. Saipov’s immigration did not work out as hoped and will likely punch a multi-billion dollar hole in the U.S. economy. There will be direct losses from deaths and injuries in the attack itself, costs of treating, prosecuting, and imprisoning Mr. Saipov, costs of providing welfare to his wife and two children (Mr., Saipov won’t be earning a lot in prison), etc. There will be indirect losses due to extra security measures that cities will put in place to try to prevent a repeat jihad.

Perhaps it is too soon to look at the dollars and cents, but how was Mr. Saipov’s immigration supposed to benefit native-born Americans in the best case? The CIA says that Uzbekistan has a per-capita GDP of roughly $6,600 per person, #159 out of 230 countries (ranking). Mr. Saipov was 29 years old and worked as a truck/Uber driver, a job that is expected to disappear within his working lifetime. He had two children and a wife with no reported job. The U.S. has an average per-capita GDP of $57,400 per person per year. So Mr. Saipov would have had to earn $229,600 per year in order to make the U.S. wealthier on a per-capita basis. Maybe somehow existing Americans can become better off if the population grows, but the GDP per-person shrinks? A Mr. Saipov will truck their goods around at a low price. But how can that make them better off overall given our traffic gridlock and skyrocketing housing prices? Mr. Saipov, his wife, and their children have to live somewhere and also get around.
As I will be explaining soon in the first Voxiversity video, immigration is war. And it is a war that America has been losing for 52 years.

Labels:

97 Comments:

Anonymous Clueless Cuckservative November 01, 2017 1:30 PM  

But...but...but...duhVERsity is our STRENGTH! Muh Emma Lazarus! His kids will be all-Murican!

Blogger pyrrhus November 01, 2017 1:32 PM  

I have been trying to explain the extremely high cost of importing 3d worlders to people for years, mostly to blank incomprehension.
Yet I'm sure many of my 8 year old students would have understood it....It's almost like most American adults can't comprehend simple math anymore.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 01, 2017 1:40 PM  

Lottery visa program = retard bingo.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 01, 2017 1:42 PM  

The penalties for understanding have been high.

Blogger Longtime Lurker November 01, 2017 1:44 PM  

"Mr. Saipov, his wife, and their children have to live somewhere and also get around."

I know it's obvious to say it, but they have to go back. Except for Saipov. His sorry ass belongs to the state.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 01, 2017 1:48 PM  

There is no doubt that it is war - on many levels too (economic, cultural, spiritual and physical come to mind fast). We know against whom this war is being waged - though there is a lot of lying about that point. The confusion arises over who is waging the war. Saipov was just another grunt for the side waging the war. The folks who are the recipients of this war even now are largely unaware that a war is being waged.

Anonymous Reality Check November 01, 2017 1:51 PM  

The problem is your average GOP cuckservative HATES the white working class.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 01, 2017 1:52 PM  

According to the blurb on Drudge the GE lambasted Shumer personally for the diversity visa disaster. I'm sure the only defense the likes of Shumer can mount for the disaster is that without Magic Dirt the next Holocaust is around the corner.

Shumer and the prison widow have to go back, they are the holocaust.

Anonymous #5454 November 01, 2017 1:53 PM  

Good. Great arguments for those traitorous, "fiscally conservative but socially liberal" a-holes.

Blogger Shimshon November 01, 2017 1:56 PM  

As Mark Steyn pointed out, Saipov’s first name means "Sword of Allah."

Blogger Antony November 01, 2017 1:59 PM  

Re the Chuck Schumer Diversity Visa issue - my understanding is that he is an American & Israeli dual national - can anyone point me to a list of Senators and Congressmen that have this dual nationality ? Such a person will obviously have divides loyalties.. or, for that matter, loyalty to Israel first and foremost.
There should be a ban on dual nationals standing for congress and senate, and the alternative media should note as matter of course whether or not any politician they are reporting on is a dual national.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 2:00 PM  

Molyneux had an interesting econ stat about Cuba in his recent "About Che" video.

in the 1950s, something like 58% of GDP was earned by the middle and working class Cubans ( US was something like 61%, iirc ) and they had one of the highest standards of living in the world. by many measures, they were ahead of most European nations and their currency had lower inflation than the US.

then they put Che in charge of Central Planning for the economy.

which is neither here nor there.

i'm curious what portion of current GDP is apportioned to the middle and lower classes today? in the US?



5. Longtime Lurker November 01, 2017 1:44 PM
Except for Saipov. His sorry ass belongs to the state.



his head should be mounted on one of the spikes that adorns Liberty's crown.

or, you know, we could turn Liberty's torch into a real flame and just toss him in there as a method of execution.

Blogger Salt November 01, 2017 2:02 PM  

"Mr. Saipov, his wife, and their children have to live somewhere and also get around."

It's no problem as I'm sure the Left in Congress and the NY liberals have a plan to take care of them. Probably the same plan they've touted for the past 60 years which they'll say has been a roaring success.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 2:07 PM  

using Income Tax paid as a proxy ( and, of course, realizing the large personal deductions shielding much of the lower class from paying any tax at all ) would seem to indicate that in the current economy a significant majority of GDP is raked off by the financiers and the bottom 50% is collecting well less than than 40% of GDP.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/

and that massive change was accomplished in < 70 years.

damn, it's good to be a Banksta.

Anonymous Grayman November 01, 2017 2:10 PM  

You will still not get to the majority of people with the immigration = war approach even though there have been multiple papers written on it:

Example: Civil Wars
Publication details, including instructions for authors and subscription information:
http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/fciv20
Strategic Engineered Migration as a Weapon of War
Kelly M. Greenhill
Published online: 01 Jul 2008.


a significant portion of the population is not ready to have their world view shattered and getting people to internalize immigration = war is in direct contradiction to what a large % have been indoctrinated to.

This is just one more facet of the socioeconomic wave. Most people will not accept this until their local world burns, literally or figuratively.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 2:11 PM  

ah, over 68% of income is earned by the top 25% of the population.

i think that's the number i'm looking for.

it doesn't really matter how you define Middle Class, the top 25% ain't going to be in it.

so there's been almost a complete inversion of income apportionment in the US economy since 1960.

due in no small part to the business interests driving down wages via the importation of unskilled foreigners.

Anonymous badhairday November 01, 2017 2:12 PM  

Uber akbar!

Anonymous VFM 6016 November 01, 2017 2:14 PM  

As excited as I am about Alt-Hero, I'm really looking forward to seeing these Voxiversity videos... And sharing them.

Anonymous Isle Six November 01, 2017 2:15 PM  

To murder people at random in one's adoptive country in the name of a desert warlord-pedophile is one thing. For the killer do so with calm assurance that the citizenry of said country will be coerced to support him, his wife and children for an indefinite duration after the fact--as if such magnanimity went without saying--is something else. The only way to avert these bouts of savagery once we let these savages into our country is to revert to a hybrid extra-European, pre-Enlightenment penal code where, for instance, the penalty for "Mr." Saipov's act would be the summary execution of his family and nearest acquaintances. That might not be a very nice society to live in. But it would be better than the one we live in now.

Anonymous Philipp November 01, 2017 2:19 PM  

@15: Greyman

"a significant portion of the population is not ready to have their world view shattered and getting people to internalize immigration = war is in direct contradiction to what a large % have been indoctrinated to."

Just give it time. They will learn. They will get ready. It is only a matter of time and their blood being spillt.

Anonymous Fred Bastiat November 01, 2017 2:27 PM  

here will be direct losses from deaths and injuries in the attack itself, costs of treating, prosecuting, and imprisoning Mr. Saipov, costs of providing welfare to his wife and two children (Mr., Saipov won’t be earning a lot in prison), etc. There will be indirect losses due to extra security measures that cities will put in place to try to prevent a repeat jihad.

Those are all opportunities for more employment!
Just like reglazing broken windows!
Proof that immigration boosts the economy!

Blogger Were-Puppy November 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

@8 Mr.MantraMan

I'm sure the only defense the likes of Shumer can mount for the disaster is that without Magic Dirt the next Holocaust is around the corner.
---

Tell Chuckie CHeez Sch00mer I'm not German, and I'm not Jewish, so why should I care?

A fine triggering would ensue.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar November 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

The process for legal deportation of terrorist family members should be debated. The caterwauling would be instructive to voters.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 01, 2017 2:30 PM  

When this was first happening #FakeNews was going on about how a man from Tampa Florida was driving the truck.

That bit of fake news lasted about 2 hours or so as far as I could tell before falling to the wayside.

I didn't catch if they were accusing him of being a white supremacist christian conspiracy theorist pizza gater neo nazi honkey.

Anonymous Durandel November 01, 2017 2:32 PM  

@5 LL: "except for Saipov. His sorry ass belongs to the state."

Why should US citizens have to pay for his upkeep? If Uzbekistan won't pay for his monthly upkeep in jail plus fees, then after being found guilty in a court of law, he should be swiftly executed. And when the anti-death penalty crowd cries, we merely ask them to pony up the money so that others don't have to pay for their sentiments.


@19, Isle Six: " the penalty for "Mr." Saipov's act would be the summary execution of his family and nearest acquaintances."

No need to kill those who did not commit a crime. They should all just be deported back to their home country though. US citizens owe the man's wife and kids nothing.

Anonymous Grayman November 01, 2017 2:32 PM  

@16 bob

ah, over 68% of income is earned by the top 25% of the population.

And you'd be wrong, its highly regional. "middle class" is more then just household income, its also social position education etc.

Being a Banksta is indeed good (until the tide turns anyway) but the real Banksta's are the politicians and the 0.1%. The "average" middle age finance guy pulling 200+ is still 1 or 2 paychecks from being broke. That isnt wealth or power. The wealth and power, the ASSET EXTRACTION is those living on interest income and skimming from the system as they go.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 01, 2017 2:33 PM  

@11 Antony November

There should be a ban on dual nationals standing for congress and senate, and the alternative media should note as matter of course whether or not any politician they are reporting on is a dual national.
---

It's a great idea but they won't do it as the lions share of them are also (((dual-national))).

Exposing this should be a high priority along with removing whatever excuse they use to allow anchor babies immediate citizenship.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 2:35 PM  

It's a religious war, but has nothing to do with Islam. It's the Left Cult's war on the rest of us.

There's no negotiation with such collective insanity. When the tide turns, most of the Cult's zealots will sit down and die in place. They are not equipped to fight an actual war. The West will be culled of its Left-crazy subset relatively passively.

Getting rid of the invaders will only take a bit more shift in pre-1965 American's sentiments. It's the Idea Whose Time Has Come, and has nothing to do with who marches at the front of the band.

We'll know that shift is behind us when the wife and kids of a terrorist are summarily deported even as he awaits execution (public, preferred) for his crime.

Anonymous Durandel November 01, 2017 2:41 PM  

@11 Anthony: "can anyone point me to a list of Senators and Congressmen that have this dual nationality?"

https://infogalactic.com/info/List_of_foreign-born_United_States_politicians

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4zm640/why_do_so_many_us_politicians_have_dual_usisraeli/

http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html

http://american3rdposition.com/us-politics-hold-ual-usisraeli-citizenship/

Blogger Stilicho November 01, 2017 2:42 PM  

Vox, you ran the numbers showing we lose .2 jobs per immigrant (1980 - 2015) if we give immigrants credit for every single net job created during that period. Have you run the numbers if you use a more reasonable job creation percentage attributed to immigrants (e.g. Something less than 100 percent... like immigrants relative percentage of the population... you could even apply the highest immigrant population percentage from the period to be conservative)?

Blogger BlowMe November 01, 2017 2:45 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 2:48 PM  

@16 due in no small part to the business interests driving down wages via the importation of unskilled foreigners.

Tip of the iceberg.

1981 to today, the largest credit bubble in recorded history.
1982 to today, little of that credit flowed into Consumer Goods Prices; most of it flowed into asset prices.

1981 to today, every dollar borrowed and spent created at least two dollars of wealth--one in the GDP economy and a second in the bond market. For this reason, every single opportunity to BORROW MORE appeared to create wealth.

Importing 55 million consumers to the USA meant that corporations increased the churn, AKA arbitrage between where consumer goods are now made (cheap foreign lands) and where they are retailed (high priced US retailers.)

All those additional demands on government (schools, Medicare, etc.) led to MORE BORROWING, which was the same as MORE WEALTH.

Now you know why economists luuuuuuuuv open borders. The more Mestizos crowding Emergency Rooms, the higher goes GDP!

What industries saw the largest rises in good-paying jobs during the last 36 years?
-Medical industries from hospitals to pharma to medical insurance.
-Higher Ed.
-Defense industries.
-Finance, Insurance, Real Estate.

All of it rests on phenomenal demand created simply by borrowing and spending. What happens if someday it becomes impossible to borrow more?

Is there always a permanent way to borrow-to-consume? Model that in your mind, using a simple little town with a bank, a couple factories, a welfare state and "public sector." As debt-enabled spending warps the structure of production, eventually no one is making anything for sale in the real world; it's all labor/production to serve the Masters-of-Borrowing, and the system collapses.

Exported industry.
Stagnant wages.
Debt servitude.
Insane ramps in the price of Higher Ed, Medical services, Defense, etc.
Filling a veritable ocean of IOU's, each of them counted as "wealth" by someone(or multiple someone's.)

It is All The Same Problem. It will all resolve together, too. And everything from 55 million recent arrivals to too many promises of future cash flows to too many people working in Medical, Higher Ed, Defense and FIRE industries will be "fixed."

Very, very unpleasantly.

Anonymous krymneth November 01, 2017 2:48 PM  

Grayman, Vox is dropping a seed crystal into what is or will be a supersaturated solution. He doesn't need his literal words in front of everybody to have an effect.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener November 01, 2017 2:50 PM  

Immigration Is Good For The Economy = The Broken Body Fallacy

Blogger BlowMe November 01, 2017 2:51 PM  

@Pyrrhus

"I have been trying to explain the extremely high cost of importing 3d worlders to people for years, mostly to blank incomprehension.
Yet I'm sure many of my 8 year old students would have understood it....It's almost like most American adults can't comprehend simple math anymore."

My 11 and 12 year old students would easily understand it as well. It ain't rocket science...except to the dimwitted adults you correctly referred to.

It's funny how most situations in life can be analogized to a situation on an elementary or middle school playground.

Analogies that even moronic leftists and cucks can understand. Sometimes. If they try REALLY HARD.

Blogger Salt November 01, 2017 2:58 PM  

Mr. Saipov’s immigration did not work out as hoped and will likely punch a multi-billion dollar hole in the U.S. economy.

Eight people won the random Jihadi Lottery grand prize, others were runner-ups. But we're all winners in Jihadi Lottery. Taxpayers get to participate by taking care of the perp's family, law enforcement will get more funds, and the medical industry has excellent job security.

Jidahi Lottery is good for the economy, and everyone gets to play.

Anonymous Grayman November 01, 2017 3:01 PM  

@35

Grade socialism is always a fun one. all the A's get dropped by 1 letter and that "letter drop" is given to the F's and D's.
They little tikes just LOVE socialism when they get to see it up close. And if any of the A's complain, tell them to shut up their grade point privilege is hold down the F's and D's

Anonymous Bukulu November 01, 2017 3:04 PM  

Durandel @ 25,

"No need to kill those who did not commit a crime. "

Oh yes there is. The fairly-certain prospect of being executed himself did not deter this scumbag... obliterating every one of his nearest and dearest is simply (and sadly) the only bit of leverage we have.


dc.sunsets,

Summarily deported? Only if by helicopter...

Anonymous Nike Missile November 01, 2017 3:13 PM  

Quoting Mr. Sailer:

"Thank God the Democrats are importing millions of future Democratic voters to demographically crush those pickup-driving yeehawing white racist Republican genocidal lynch mob maniacs who built this country and thus deserve to have it taken away from them. "

Anonymous VFM #7916 November 01, 2017 3:14 PM  

@29

The infogalactic link appears to be missing many names. Israel does not appear on the list.

Blogger LP9 November 01, 2017 3:21 PM  

The Immi War is using fear, bombs, cars, fashionista Sinda (I detest her)Sousor making islamic feminism cool (that does not exist in the realm of reality but women like this are morons), pedo stuff, dancing boys of where ever, compassion for victims (on a global scale), etc., all distractions for the immi war is a war of demographics meanwhile the left or whom ever keeps the floodgates open to give welfare and never tell them about abortion or over population or even the dangers of inbreds islamo's bent on their service to Allah.

They all must go home and its another lesson to NY was shamed for their open hearts.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr November 01, 2017 3:30 PM  

His family has to go back. As for Saipov, we'll send him back, too. Right after his execution and cremation.

As for the "diversity visa" business, it has to go. Along with the twits who voted for it.

WRT immigration, I think part of the problem is an obstinate refusal to admit that we're living in the 21st Century...and we have a surplus of unskilled labor. There is NO need to import more. As Dr. Pournelle pointed out, unlimited free trade (especially of labor and among non-peer states) carries social and welfare costs that the proponents don't bother to capture. Almost EVERY modern immigrant is a net burden. Either they are on welfare directly, or they displaced a native-born worker who went on welfare.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass November 01, 2017 3:39 PM  

If you read the comment section of the linked post, Viking was a winner of the diversity lottery. He does not support it.

Longtime Lurker wrote:"Mr. Saipov, his wife, and their children have to live somewhere and also get around."

I know it's obvious to say it, but they have to go back. Except for Saipov. His sorry ass belongs to the state.


BING! Saipov has to go back though.

Shimshon wrote:As Mark Steyn pointed out, Saipov’s first name means "Sword of Allah."

Lovely.

Limbaugh unfortunately missed the forest for the trees today. He did a good job of pointing out how the diversity visa has to go and that we have an assimilation problem. He refused to say that diversity isn't our strength and that some groups do not assimilate. Furthermore, as I said to a relative years ago about Emma Lazarus' melting pot, some cheeses do not melt.

Blogger Longtime Lurker November 01, 2017 3:42 PM  

@25: "he should be swiftly executed."

He should be. But he won't be. And we all know it.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 3:45 PM  

@42, as you know, nationalism is the answer.

Nationalism that regards the nation's members as extended family would see managers of firms gladly employ their countrymen instead of gaming any H1-B system extant. Nationalism that regards non-countrymen as neighbors, and treats them respectfully when they merit it and visit, and as adversaries when that is how they act. Nationalism that regards citizenship as a great honor, bestowed only when accompanied by a long list of expectations that must be met (and this includes on one's own kids; no voice without obligation and responsibility.)

Those who espouse the oneness of Mankind and "citizenship of the world" are backstabbing, vicious adversaries whose purpose is to squander what our ancestors conquered and built, and who wish to see our children stripped of their rightful inheritance.

All others: If you want your kids to inherit the good, make it yourselves; it's not like we're keeping the secret sauce "secret." If you can't, that's NOT OUR PROBLEM.

Anonymous Haxo Angmaerk November 01, 2017 3:46 PM  

all these "economic" arguments are irrelevant. The genocidal anti-White ethnic insourcing will continue until the political power of organized Jewry has been broken.

and broken in such a way as to ensure that it can never rise again.

Blogger weka November 01, 2017 3:48 PM  

You need to go full Abbott. Only allow in immigrants who have sufficient points, the young, white and skilled.

Deportation all illegal immigrants to a refugee camp elsewhere. I suggest Manitoba, Haiti and Eastern Siberia (they can see Palin from there).

And if they do commit acts of terror, Kratman has a manual. Crucify the offender, hang his family, destroy his mosque and village. Teh Constitution does not apply in war and to your enemies.

I would add there are a fair number of lawyers and movie stars who need to move to Argentina or Cuba, because they need to meet the Rosenberg memorial electrified chair, or the Pinochet airline helicopter.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams November 01, 2017 3:49 PM  

Deport the whole family and save the taxpayers the cost of his trial.

Anonymous CarpeOro November 01, 2017 3:49 PM  

BlowMe wrote:@Pyrrhus

"I have been trying to explain the extremely high cost of importing 3d worlders to people for years, mostly to blank incomprehension.

Yet I'm sure many of my 8 year old students would have understood it....It's almost like most American adults can't comprehend simple math anymore."

My 11 and 12 year old students would easily understand it as well. It ain't rocket science...except to the dimwitted adults you correctly referred to.

It's funny how most situations in life can be analogized to a situation on an elementary or middle school playground.

Analogies that even moronic leftists and cucks can understand. Sometimes. If they try REALLY HARD.


It used to take a good 12 years in the public miseducation system to scoop out that bit of common sense. They have the assistance of the MSM, Hollyweird, and Churchians. As we approach the cliffs edge fewer and fewer will buy the idea that it is good to be a lemming and jump to follow the rest.

Anonymous Grayman November 01, 2017 4:01 PM  

@47 Weka

I LIKE IT!!! Our new immigration center is in Fort Yukon Alaska (66°34′3″N 145°15′23″W), no fences needed, feel free to walk off the immigration center grounds, the local wildlife will appreciate the meal.

Anonymous Lord of the Fleas November 01, 2017 4:26 PM  

@11 There should be a ban on dual nationals standing for congress and senate...

Apparently, there is such a ban in Australia, the Supreme Court recently ruled that the Deputy PM (being a New Zealand dual citizen) is ineligible to sit in Parliament, and it has just cost the government its one-seat majority. An election may be in the offing for just this reason.

Anonymous Crew November 01, 2017 4:28 PM  

@40: You can update the page or send the info to Crew@infogalactic.com and it will be updated.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 4:42 PM  

32. dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 2:48 PM
Tip of the iceberg.


yes, i know. the immigration issue is but one of many avenues by which our ((( elected officials ))) wage war against us.

you'll note that there are also a great many ((( trading interests ))) around the world who benefit disproportionately by the offshoring of manufacturing and production.

[ see the movies 'War Dogs' and 'Lord of War' for but two examples of how ((( they ))) use international trade, in these cases Arms, to enrich themselves ]



26. Grayman November 01, 2017 2:32 PM
And you'd be wrong, its highly regional. "middle class" is more then just household income, its also social position education etc.



a - a Masters Degree in Negro Studies serving coffee at a Starbucks in downtown GayBay making min wage is ... you guessed it ... still Low Class, economically speaking

b - your attempts to redefine an Economic metric as Sociological are unwelcome, unhelpful and wholly irrelevant to the point being made.


i don't care how you define it,
IF
Batista era Cuba paid it's Middle and Lower classes almost 60% of total GDP
AND
only 32% of income is earned by the bottom 75% in Current Year USA
THEN
something has gone grossly awry in our "Capitalist Society".

i don't know where Stephan got his numbers so i grant that might be wrong. i wouldn't bet money on that, though.



32. dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 2:48 PM
led to MORE BORROWING, which was the same as MORE WEALTH.



no, i've already demonstrated numerous times that growth in the Money Supply ( what you're describing via our Fractional Reserve / Fiat Debt system ) doesn't have a damn thing to do with Wealth in the Society.

you can acquire Zimbabwean currency denominated in the Trillions. that doesn't mean Zimbabwe is Wealthy or Productive under the administration of Mugabe or that any but a miniscule fraction of Zimbabwean citizens live above Poverty level.

it does mean they had ( they've given up printing their own currency and now simply use USD ) plenty of lovely Billion dollar notes to use as toilet paper. which, you know, they wouldn't have access to otherwise. so sad that they still don't have flush toilets to use the paper in.


32. dc.sunsets November 01, 2017 2:48 PM
the higher goes GDP!
...
Model that in your mind



i've already demonstrated the two Critical flaws in the GDP model. a further flaw in the philosophy Economists use is that they don't believe Economies observe the 2nd Law of ThermoDynamics. ie - their models assume that an economy is Frictionless and that every unit spent is of equal value regardless of source.

i've also already pointed out the bind between the Federal Reserve Monetary policy ( limit annual GDP growth to ~2% per annum ) at the same time that Baseline Budgeting in Congress grows .Gov spending at a 'legally mandated' ~8% per annum.

.Gov spending is a major component of GDP.

GDP == Consumption ( primarily private citizens ) + Investment ( primarily business ) + .Gov ( with no regard for either frictional losses involved with taxing and disbursing nor for whether the spending is Deficit or within current year revenue ) + Exports - Imports

IF .Gov spending rises > 5% annually
BUT total GDP is kneecapped to < 3% annually
THEN ???

the System is designed to Crash.

and i cannot have been the first person to observe this. [ which i have also said before ]

in fact, the nosedive in portion of the GDP being earned by Middle / Low class households is also an obvious consequence of the Fed Reserve Monetary vs .Gov Spending bind.

note also that the Trade Deficit is partly being driven by this policy bind. a Trade Deficit constrains the overall GDP number which is important to the ((( Fed ))) when they're trying to hold GDP under 3%.

Blogger Demonic Professor El November 01, 2017 4:55 PM  

See, the problem here is that he was NYC, where there isn't a lot of magic dirt, or dirt of any kind. Had he gone to Iowa or Indiana, then he would have been okay, clearly.

Anonymous Deplorable me November 01, 2017 4:56 PM  

@50 Grayman

Our new immigration center is in Fort Yukon Alaska ... and it only has 10 beds.

Blogger PropagandistHacker November 01, 2017 4:58 PM  

the upper class has been waging war on the white working class for decades now...the weapons of this war are mass immigration, and propaganda in the form of anti-white multiculturalism in the media, hollywood and the educational curriculum, most especially a version of history that is anti-white and pro-nonwhite

Blogger Gospace November 01, 2017 5:27 PM  

((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 2:11 PM
ah, over 68% of income is earned by the top 25% of the population.

i think that's the number i'm looking for.

it doesn't really matter how you define Middle Class, the top 25% ain't going to be in it.


In 1973, the year I graduated HS, my income was in the bottom quintile. I've been in the 4th quintile for a few years now. Unless you really did get a dead end job, or have no discernible skills, or both, you move up. If my wife worked, even part time, our household income would be in the top quintile. We're middle class.

My two oldest kids are in the top quintile. My 3rd will have to wait on bonus determination to determine if he's in the 3rd or 4th quintile. He's 27. He has HS friends still in the bottom quintile. They're all druggies. Or alkies- same difference for all all practical purposes.

Upward mobility still exists. And it still has to be worked for.

Anonymous VFM #7916 November 01, 2017 5:27 PM  

@55 @50

Skagway is more preferable. No land access, and more brown bears.

Blogger JNorth November 01, 2017 5:35 PM  

Ya but why ruin Skagway, we aren't using Adak for anything right now.

Anonymous BBGKB November 01, 2017 5:36 PM  

how was Mr. Saipov’s immigration supposed to benefit native-born Americans in the best case?

The (((Elite Looters))) are $enriched$ when 80IQ moslems are imported at taxpayer expense onto welfare+section 8 + food stamps. Everyone else not so much.

"No need to kill those who did not commit a crime. "

Not only do nits make lice, but we must fight by the same rules as our enemies. The idea that taxpayers should support the attacker's wife+ zerg spawn is like when nurses argued against drug testing for taxpayer paid prenatal care by saying women would CHOSE to not get prenatal care. It was a hostage situation of a woman holding a gun to her belly saying "don't drug test or the crack baby gets it"

Blogger Unknown November 01, 2017 5:36 PM  

Unsecured money issuance is largely to blame for wage stagnation. In certain fields, immigration has had a larger effect, but overall, 40 plus years of productivity gains have been inflationary stripped from the work force by unbacked issuance of debt.

Karl Denninger talks about this all the time.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd November 01, 2017 5:40 PM  

Grayman wrote:@47 Weka

I LIKE IT!!! Our new immigration center is in Fort Yukon Alaska (66°34′3″N 145°15′23″W), no fences needed, feel free to walk off the immigration center grounds, the local wildlife will appreciate the meal.


You can't dump your trash up here, either. I suggest Antarctica.

Anonymous VFM #7916 November 01, 2017 5:55 PM  

@59

This is a good idea.

Blogger Arthur Isaac November 01, 2017 6:01 PM  

Lottery visa program = retard bingo.

4 Syrians in a row! Bingo!

Blogger traderdoc November 01, 2017 6:13 PM  

Want to tear down statues?

How about Trump writing an executive order tearing the Emma Lazarus poem from the Statue of Liberty?

Replace it with a plaque calling it "Trump's Bitch".

Anonymous Post Alley Crackpot November 01, 2017 6:14 PM  

Durandel @25: "Why should US citizens have to pay for his upkeep? If Uzbekistan won't pay for his monthly upkeep in jail plus fees ..."

Before mass democratisation and the "Pax Americana", there was a concept that if a person from a country committed serious crimes in another country, it was the sovereign of the country where that person came from that was responsible for punishing the person. This was done in a way that would mutually satisfy requirements for the punishment of the crime.

Judicial efficiency often led to the sovereign agreeing to an execution, of course.

Given this background, it would make sense to refer to Uzbekistan as "somewhat lawless": they're not going to enforce the laws against murder on one of their citizens for crimes committed in another country, despite the fact that murder is just as illegal in Uzbekistan.

Because of this, it falls to the United States to punish this person precisely because of Uzbekistan's soft policy towards crime when it comes to what their people do in terms of serious crimes in other countries.

And so it should also fall to the United States to limit numbers of Uzbek nationals to zero if it so chooses until Uzbekistan comes into compliance with agreements to punish its citizens for crimes committed elsewhere.

If Uzbekistan doesn't want its murderer back so Uzbekistan can punish him in a way appropriate for both countries, that should be acceptable provided that Uzbekistan pays for the housing, care, and upkeep of its prisoner abroad. Of course, American prison companies could profit by this person remaining for full life imprisonment in a "super-maximum security" prison facility, charged back to Uzbekistan at a surplus over the going rate for Americans who commit such serious crimes.

In fact, perhaps American prison companies could design a prison experience for "prison expats" that makes Iran's legendary Evin Prison look like a holiday package experience, just so these people have a punishment that's much more fitting for the punishments of the crimes.

Anonymous Wooly November 01, 2017 6:31 PM  

@10

"And so, on a buckled, broken bicycle on the Hudson River Greenway, the wheel comes full circle. America and every other major western nation thought the appropriate response to 9/11 was to show how nice we are by dramatically increasing the rate of mass Muslim immigration. Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov was among the many beneficiaries of the west's suicide by virtue-signaling. "Sayfullo" is a Central Asian rendering of "Saifallah" - or "Sword of Allah". Hmm, what a fascinating name! Do you think whichever brain-dead bureaucrat who gave Sword of Allah's online Green Card application the once-over (assuming anyone did) so much as gave the name a second glance?"

Steyn is on a rhetorical roll lately.

https://www.steynonline.com/8229/jihad-on-the-bike-path

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 7:26 PM  

57. Gospace November 01, 2017 5:27 PM
Upward mobility still exists.


regardless of your accomplishments, your Language Comprehension is inept.

i said nothing one way or the other about Economic Mobility. indeed, it's wholly irrelevant to the discussion.


here's Stephan's claim, it's % of Gross National Income not GDP, not quite the same thing. however, Labor's share of Wages is even higher, 66% for Cuba and 68% for the US in 1957:

https://youtu.be/1eMLk1nQh5o?t=51m46s



try applying your big brain to this problem:

GNI for the US in 2014 was $17.6 Trillion
and total Adj Gross Income was $9.7 Trillion.

let us agree that all Adj Gross Income is Wages for Labor for this exercise. a ludicrous assumption.

thus, AGI / GNI gives us 55.11%.

under the most generous possible interpretation of the data, US Labor is down +10% on their share of national income.

vs 1957 Cuba.

and the "apples to apples" number is certainly far larger than that.

how much better would your family / neighborhood / state be doing if you were all making 10% more and Goldman Sachs+JPMorgan was making 10% less?

how much better would your business be doing?

what are Goldman Sachs+JPMorgan supposed to be doing for the US economy which is so beneficial it's worth an extra $2 Trillion dollars?

at the same time that their machinations drive manufacturing offshore?




57. Gospace November 01, 2017 5:27 PM
In 1973, the year I graduated HS, my income was in the bottom quintile.


duh?

since when does a newly minted high school diploma qualify you for anything other than entry level goomba work? even if you go into a union, apprentice wages normally aren't fantastic. CWA, for instance, wanted me to start at < 20k, even though i have an associates degree and had +5 years of contract work in telco at the time.

not all of us have the ((( contacts ))) and ((( financial backers ))) necessary to become international arms dealers and millionaires in our mid-20s.

behold, a Magic Dirt ((( American ))), succeeding due to his "talents" and greater "native intelligence".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efraim_Diveroli

Anonymous Icicle November 01, 2017 7:39 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxwylahBfp4

Uzbekistan.
They very nosy people.
With bone in their brain.

Blogger LP9 November 01, 2017 7:41 PM  

semi related must hears from Milo and Tara

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIbFSj28B2E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyiRRG6tzik

Blogger DonReynolds November 01, 2017 7:42 PM  

Instead of getting lost in the reeds and cattails, slogging around in mud and water up to our chins, making a list of the many ways that illegal aliens and immigrants cost this society, it may be more constructive to make a much shorter list of ways they might be beneficial. The lesson being, that immigration needs to benefit the receiving society and does not occur simply to fulfill the hopes and desires of foreign citizens. In short....it does not matter what they want, or wish, or hope, or plan, or need. The ONLY thing that matters is what is beneficial to the receiving society. There are no other considerations, but the benefits of bringing any such individuals to this country must be offset by the costs involved.

Since there are presently 95 MILLION Americans who have been pushed out of the labor force. There is obviously no labor shortage of any kind, certainly not unskilled and illiterate labor.

So what sorts of labor DOES this country NEED badly enough to import them from foreign countries?

A) It could be there is a military /diplomatic /educational need for people with language/cultural skills and knowledge peculiar to specific tribes or locations on the globe. They may also be recruited to work as spies on behalf of American intelligence agencies or listening posts or to help with analysis.

B) If we take a page from the JFK playbook, with regard to Cuban refugees, they could be recruited from countries the USA may wish to liberate in the future. (That was the Brigade 2506, which was landed at the Bay of Pigs. The operation was aborted after it began, so it certainly failed, but the concept is still viable.)

C) I guess we should leave open the possibility that there are foreign citizens, defectors, collaborators, with specialized knowledge not otherwise available from American citizens or those persons who betrayed their own country on behalf of the Americans. No doubt, these would be very few.

Blogger Jew613 November 01, 2017 8:07 PM  

VFM #7916 wrote:@29

The infogalactic link appears to be missing many names. Israel does not appear on the list.


Because while the politicians in the lists are largely Jewish they mostly have only American citizenship.

Anonymous Alice De Goon November 01, 2017 8:07 PM  

@9 Good. Great arguments for those traitorous, "fiscally conservative but socially liberal" a-holes.

Whenever I hear someone call themselves "fiscally conservative but socially liberal" I mentally reply "Oh, so you're both a degenerate AND greedy..."

If you want to know why so many Somalians and Mexicans are being crammed into mid-size farm towns in Minnesota, check to see if those towns have a factory farm or chicken processing plant nearby. Most of the people clamoring for turd-world immigration around those parts are farm and factory owners who don't want to pay their employees any higher than minimum wage. When the Revolution comes, you should put a few lampposts aside for them.

Anonymous Patron November 01, 2017 8:28 PM  

Anyone else seen the wonderful "It's Okay To Be White" real life operation by /pol/ ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/signs-saying-its-okay-to-be-white-found-at-maryland-high-school/2017/11/01/92013a26-bf3b-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html

Yes, it's made the national news in the USA :) ...

Anonymous Crew November 01, 2017 8:39 PM  

@40: Actually, that list is a list of US Politicians who were born overseas.

This list is more interesting: http://american3rdposition.com/us-politics-hold-ual-usisraeli-citizenship/

Blogger Dirk Manly November 01, 2017 9:26 PM  

@5

"I know it's obvious to say it, but they have to go back. Except for Saipov. His sorry ass belongs to the state."

Saipov can go back, too.
In a sealed plastic bag.

Blogger weka November 01, 2017 9:30 PM  

But then they would come via NZ and we don't want them or the US federal staff who amage them.

Siberia is as empty and Putin has a healthy contempt for lawyers. He even has spare camps.

Blogger Dirk Manly November 01, 2017 9:31 PM  

@11

"
There should be a ban on dual nationals standing for congress and senate, and the alternative media should note as matter of course whether or not any politician they are reporting on is a dual national."


There should be a ban on dual-nationals holding ANY public office. Divided loyalties is incompatible with holding public office -- elected, appointed, and merely hired. ALL of them. And I'm not so sure about other government positions, either. Even a janitor can do great damage, with very little foreign motivation needed.

Blogger Thomas777 November 01, 2017 9:40 PM  

I don't understand you guys. You're all outraged over some half assed, wannabe mujihadeen wasting a handful of people in the ZOG heartland. This isn't a white mans fight. if anything these types of artacks are a net positive.

Blogger tuberman November 01, 2017 10:14 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly November 01, 2017 10:23 PM  

@78

Although the latest jihadi did strike in the heart of the Anti-American camp... that doesn't change the fact that the jihadi's goal was to strike America.

Just because his aim was bad -- striking against a city of his allies, rather than at the real Americans who he hates -- doesn't change the fact that his intent was to harm us.

If someone yells, "I'm gonna kill you," shoots a gun at me, but misses, and accidentally kills a dangerous animal that was in the shadows sneaking up behind me, that does NOT absolve him of his crime of attempted murder. POOR AIM does not provide absolution, even if the net result from the poor aim is beneficial -- what was being ATTEMPTED cannot be permitted.

Blogger Silver Chief November 01, 2017 11:08 PM  

@72
The guy speaking is very well spoken. It explains the local situation in Willmar MN. The employer and the immigrants benefit, as do some NGOs. These are legal immigrants, perhaps 'refugees.'


Published on Jul 12, 2015
Very worth watching.

This meeting took place in Kandiyohi County, Minnesota on July 7, 2015
The guy is very well spoken. 12 minutes long.
The Somalis often work at a local meatpacking plant for $10/hr. They go off fed benefits after several months, although I am hazy on this. If they move from their initial resettlement point they lose the fed benefits he says. They then get dumped on county welfare. He said there were conservatively 2,000 immigrants in the city of 20,000.

In St. Cloud MN,another primary MN city for Somalis, the complaint was that there was a dearth of 5 and 6 bedroom apartments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhiB8mtQ3Pg

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 01, 2017 11:23 PM  

77. Dirk Manly November 01, 2017 9:31 PM
There should be a ban on dual-nationals



there should be a ban on dual nationals holding American citizenship.

you know.

like used to be OUR Law before we let ((( them ))) over run the Bar associations.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 01, 2017 11:25 PM  

If you want to know why so many Somalians and Mexicans are being crammed into mid-size farm towns in Minnesota, check to see if those towns have a factory farm or chicken processing plant nearby. Most of the people clamoring for turd-world immigration around those parts are farm and factory owners who don't want to pay their employees any higher than minimum wage. When the Revolution comes, you should put a few lampposts aside for them.

Yes, but the (((owners))) look at the longer term as well as the short term cash cow from this racket. We already saw this past summer a newly-minted Dindu-Somali Minneapolis Badge-gang homie gun down an unarmed white female for wearing a bathrobe for some such. Seen any moves to file first degree murder charges against the piece of shit? Hell no. BLM - who was supposedly about out-of-control steroidal badge-gang goondas - hasn't made a sound. How about all the badge-gang goondas and Oafcuckers?? They'll stand by their golden-dindu, every single time. Not only do the owners get to import really cheap-ass labor, they also get to import an army and future voters, who of course will vote the right way every time. Everybody wins - except ol' YT. Most of them - especially the churchians - still don't understand that they, their kids and grandkids are what's for dinner at the next regularly scheduled banquet feast held in the name of New Babylon's ruler - the Judeo-Christ.

Blogger Silver Chief November 01, 2017 11:32 PM  

@2
" I have been trying to explain the extremely high cost of importing 3d worlders to people for years, mostly to blank incomprehension.
Yet I'm sure many of my 8 year old students would have understood it....It's almost like most American adults can't comprehend simple math anymore."

"It is hard gettng through to the highly perceptivre" - P.J. O' Rourke

You can tell when the pro immmigrant activists are lying because they use terms like "GDP" and "the economy." What counts is whether they benefit US citizens already here. If they hurt then why admit them? Employers save on labor but then externalize the costs of public assistance, education, health care, police, etc.

Some attempts to get through below:
1. If half the births in LA are to illegals then who pays for that? Not the employers or the employees. Who benefits?
2. Liberals correctly note that a chashier at Walmart, if head of household, qualifies for public assistance. So why import more?
3. If an employer has the choice of paying a US citizen $5 more per hour to attract them or pay an illegal $0 more per hour and dump $10 per hour externalities on the taxpayers, what will they do?
4. Importing brain surgeons drives down the wage uf US brain surgeons yet they clearly pay their own way terms of taxes. At some wage rate immigrants no longer pay their own way, AND drive down wages.

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 02, 2017 1:20 AM  

@64 "The Wrath of the Awakened Saxon."

@65 A terrorist attack by any Uzbek should be followed by repatriation of all Uzbeks and their US-born children.  That will hurt them more than almost anything else we could do, and nobody could object without appearing silly.

DonReynolds wrote:it may be more constructive to make a much shorter list of ways they might be beneficial.
Pig slop.  Fish feed.  Pet food.  Compost.

Anonymous Closehauled November 02, 2017 1:49 AM  

Offshoring and in-shoring hide the debasement of our currency, unless you need health care or college education.

Look at the costs of college education and health care whose costs/labor must be local and cannot be 'hidden' in China or India. They far far out-pace inflation on anything else.

By the time I received my undergraduate degree in 1992 my tuition doubled (from $600 to $1200 a semester, in 4 years). It is insane now.

I recall Greenspan's preoccupation with productivity as just a focus on how much inflation we could endure before anyone noticed. More productivity = more (((they could debase))) without anyone being the wiser.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 02, 2017 2:56 AM  

86. Closehauled November 02, 2017 1:49 AM
Offshoring and in-shoring hide the debasement of our currency, unless you need health care or college education.


while i agree with your general sentiment, you need to remember that health care and college are NOT Free Markets. the Federal Government interferes with both of those extensively and much of the price inflation is due to this.

as counterpoint, consider Lasik. practically no insurance covers that procedure. Lasik is the modern version of Radial Kerototomy ( razor blades getting stuck in your eyeballs ... while you're awake ), which cost something like $20,000 back in 1980. per eye.

now Lasik is regularly advertised for < $300 per eye.

not only has there been ZERO inflation in the 'Corrective Surgery for Vision' market, there has actually been massive price deflation with modern pricing being tiny fractions of what it was when it first came over from Russia. and that's not even adjusting for Inflation or growth in the money supply.

i'm not going to assert that the entire Surgery market should have seen likewise reductions in price ... but there's certainly no way that health care could have maintained its multi-decade double digit price inflation without .Gov price supports enabling it.

likewise for College tuition.

Blogger Dirk Manly November 02, 2017 3:11 AM  

College tuition is up, because the number of non-teaching, non-labor staff has increased tremendously.

There used to be a Dean of Students, and a Dean of every school on a campus. Now you've got the Dean of Women, the Dean of [whatever word they're using for Handicapped this year], the Dean of Black students, the Dean of Hispanic Students, the Dean of Muslim Students, the Dean of GBLTOMGWTFBBQ students, etc. ... ALL with sizeable salaries (usually higher than the professors, even though they have no real expertise in anything other than grievance mongering and agit-prop).

The staff/faculty and staff/students ratios have increased incredibly.

Oh, and let's not forget the 8-figure recreation centers, which tend to cost MUCH more than similar square footage of academic class rooms.

Anonymous vfm #0202 November 02, 2017 8:27 AM  

@krymneth:
Holy thiosulphate, Batman!

Blogger dc.sunsets November 02, 2017 8:29 AM  

@53 Bob Kek.

I think you're missing my point. Wealth is whatever the herd thinks is wealth, but sadly that determination is inconsistent over time.

I think "wealth" is good health and a wonderful family. Is "wealth" a 100 ft sailing schooner and/or the bank account or anything that can be exchanged for that bank account to buy it?

If the herd thinks that the "special dirt" in my back yard is super-duper valuable, and I can trade a cubic foot of it for a 100 ft yacht, is my dirt wealth? It seems like it to me...as long as the yacht-seller thinks so, too.

My point is not that GDP is a proper measure, or that an ocean of IOU's is wealth. My point is that today, this is the fad, the fashion, that guides people's ACTIONS. That it is a false map doesn't mean they don't use it to navigate. Do you disagree?

Today, interest rates near ridiculous lows indicate that the herd consensus is that the future cash flows represented by pensions and debt securities are "good as gold." I think this is batguano crazy, but my sentiment hasn't carried the day for 22 years and counting.

Today, I can exchange $1300 in face value of some clown's IOU for an oz of gold. So in that sense, that IOU really is as good as gold. If interest rates rise, you'd think that the value of debt is falling relative to gold, right? You might expect that it might take $2,000 or $2,500 of those IOU's (in TODAY'S DOLLARS) to buy that oz of gold.

Maybe. Maybe not. Such relationships are not linear, and it is the perception of wealth, the sugarplums dancing in everyone's heads, that has something to do with the relative price level of assets and the belief-structure that underpins social perception of subjective value (and all value is subjective and changing.)

We've had a vast credit-driven inflation. Count it how you wish, people's perception of wealth has skyrocketed alongside the filling of the Bond Ocean with unpayable IOU's. This coincided with a 35 year rally in debt prices, even as the supply of debt launched into orbit. Like stocks, debt is an intangible. It is thus subject to socionomic theory, not supply-demand pricing.

WHEN, not if, WHEN interest rates break higher in an evolving bear market for debt, the value of existing debt collapses and the leverage of the change in value is directly related to the size of the Bond Ocean...and it is galaxy-sized now.

The size of the money supply is loosely related to the perception of wealth believed to exist in all those promises of future cash flows. When it falls, people's willingness to spend will collapse, and nominal prices for most things should fall as well.

It's called a deflationary depression. And all roads lead to one.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd November 02, 2017 8:37 AM  

Jew613 wrote:VFM #7916 wrote:@29

The infogalactic link appears to be missing many names. Israel does not appear on the list.


Because while the politicians in the lists are largely Jewish they mostly have only American citizenship.


Is it not true that Israeli citizenship is automatically extended to all whom the Israelis consider Jews? If Jewish, they have dual citizenship, either now or whenever they claim it.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 02, 2017 8:44 AM  

@87 Bob, you're right. Look at every industry where prices have ramped higher vs those where prices (for what you get) went lower. In every case of the former, the Fat Finger of the state, spending borrowed money, is evident.

Think about how many people work at universities now. How many people work in the vast labyrinth of "medical services." Think about how everyone says, "go into nursing, or pharmacy, or study physical therapy, become an image tech, etc., etc.," because these industries are growing and the demand for those services will skyrocket as Americans get older."

Why? The DEMAND for those services is measured in dollars, and the dominant DEMANDER is Uncle Sam via Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, etc., spending BORROWED MONEY.

There are two basic kinds of debt:
(1) Self-liquidating debt, which is characterized by a debt issued to enable expansion of productive capacity, such that if the entrepreneurial effort bears fruit, the IOU is retired via marginal (additional) profit.
(2) Non-self-liquidating debt, which has no real or predictable economic benefit and only represents pulling future purchases into the present via burdening future economic activity with repayment (including the burden of interest.)

Uncle Sammy borrowing to buy Granny a new hip is pure consumption. Such debts are non-self-liquidating. They subtract from future economic vitality. The same can be said for corporations borrowing in order to buy back their common stock as a means of (theoretically) manipulating their share prices higher. [That share buy-backs usually coincide with market tops is a laughable paradox proving that corporate executives are anything but wise stewards of their firms' and shareholders' well-being.]

I keep saying this:
Bond market bull run plus social mood mania equaled the largest Extraordinary Popular Delusion and Madness of Crowds in history. And we've lived it for nearly four decades, teaching us all that the extreme outlier of all time is "normal."

Oh yeah. That's going to end well....

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd November 02, 2017 8:46 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:Today, I can exchange $1300 in face value of some clown's IOU for an oz of gold. So in that sense, that IOU really is as good as gold.

You can buy an ounce of gold, or perhaps an ounce of gold plated tungsten. I'm hearing that nearly undetectable fake gold eagles are coming out of China.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 02, 2017 10:18 AM  

@93, I can't understand how distributors aren't in on this. There is no f-ing way on Earth that a tungsten-plated forgery can't be detected by testing conductivity, flexibility, etc. Constructing a machine to do this would be trivially simple, whether testing a coin or a bar of any size.

As is the case in so many areas, reputation is slated to make a roaring comeback. Peak trust resulted in peak con-artistry at every level (esp. politics.) Peak distrust may have its warts, but it will probably punish dishonesty with the infusion of lead, not gold.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd November 02, 2017 11:34 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:I can't understand how distributors aren't in on this. There is no f-ing way on Earth that a tungsten-plated forgery can't be detected by testing conductivity, flexibility, etc. Constructing a machine to do this would be trivially simple, whether testing a coin or a bar of any size.

The problem is well known. Gold is diamagnetic and tungsten is paramagnetic. That's probably the starting point. Make a little machine that generates a magnetic field and measures the resulting force.

Why, I wonder, would a distributor not do that? Similarly, why would anyone buy gold on ebay, or gold from China? You know you're going to get cheated.

Anonymous Avalanche November 03, 2017 7:14 PM  

OP" Saipov, costs of providing welfare to his wife and two children (Mr., Saipov won’t be earning a lot in prison),"

WHY aren't his children and wife SENT HOME (with their 23 alleged relatives)!? There once was a program in the projects (Cabrini Green?) where if your kid was caught with drugs? You and your kid's sibs were KICKED OUT! Why is this NOT the law in this country?

Don't CARE "wife-and-kids didn't do it." It's not collective guilt: it's not GUILT at all! A FAMILY member of yours turned out to be a violent criminal, and it's not OUR problem that you married a piss-poor provider and protector! The family was here ON SUFFERANCE! A family member blew, the FAMILY loses! NOT our problem!

Same with the DACA illegals -- NOT OUR PROBLEM that your the thieving parents brought you here! Take it up with your parents.

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