ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2018 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, December 22, 2017

Mailvox: feel the rage

GW wonders about the socio-sexuality of skepticism:
Perhaps you haven't been following the debacle between the YouTube race realists and the skeptic community, but I would love to hear your view on the main instigator of it, Kraut and Tea. His infantile attacks on imagined ghosts of the Alt-Right, blatant hypocrisy in regards to the principles of not deplatforming or doxxing people, and smug overestimation of his level of expertise in biology and statistics seem like classic symptoms of a Gamma's wounded ego. That he also refuses to silence his tongue when thoroughly outmatched is just more proof of his status.

It makes me think the "online skeptic" nowadays is predisposed towards being Gamma. What else can explain their lack of conviction? Their unwillingness to argue the believer or race realist in good faith?
There is no question that the average "internet atheist" is a Gamma. More than a few are Omegas. Both scientific studies that looked into my original hypothesis about atheism being a consequence of being on the autism spectrum found correlations between an inability to make social connections and an inability to feel spiritual connections.

This sort of aggressive atheist are akin to the blind man who not only insists that everyone else is lying about their ability "to see", but also that they are inferior to him due to their inability to come to terms with their blindness. And then proceeds to try to poke out their eyes.

I have no intrinsic problem with people who don't believe what I do about God or anything else. But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it. They are nasty little creatures.

Labels: ,

189 Comments:

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 1:57 PM  

This is an organized Alt-White campaign to destroy the YouTube skeptics community. FWIW, I believe they will easily succeed.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 1:59 PM  

Unless I miss my guess, the defeated skeptics will seek refuge in the neopagan movement.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 2:00 PM  

Actually did you know Christmas is a Pagan tradition?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 2:02 PM  

Aeoli wrote:This is an organized Alt-White campaign to destroy the YouTube skeptics community. FWIW, I believe they will easily succeed.
The sub-normal greasers getting together to gang up on the Downs victim?
What's more pathetic than that?

Oh, the fact that the 'tard has so egregiously pissed everyone off that no -one will come to his defense. That's what's more pathetic.

The real question is, who will Mr. Rational stand with? He's the Jack Ward of Autist Atheists vs Alt-White.

Anonymous Laz December 22, 2017 2:03 PM  

"Actually did you know Christmas is a Pagan tradition?" Was

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 22, 2017 2:05 PM  

@Aeoli

If Kraut & Tea is representative of the skeptics’ offensive capabilities, then yeah, any serious alt right campaign will take them down quickly. The man is incapable of forming a serious argument on these subjects.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 2:06 PM  

Aeoli wrote:Actually did you know Christmas is a Pagan tradition?
Don't thnik we don't know what you're doing....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 2:07 PM  

Don't thnik. I mean it! Don't EVER thnick!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 2:09 PM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:The man is incapable of forming a serious argument on these subjects.
Approximately 85% of Internet Atheists are incapable of forming a serious argument, period. Or even recognizing one that has just taken their metaphorcal head off at the shoulders.

Anonymous Rather, Not December 22, 2017 2:10 PM  

As an atheist/agnostic on the internet: agree.

We're all atheist with respect to Apollo. Hopefully all with respect to Mohammed as prophet. But everyone has to have a core set of beliefs, principles and ways to act. Those who think they don't are just ignorant of them. A self declared atheist is usually shouting about what he doesn't believe in to hide or mask what he does actually believe. With respect to loud public atheists, that most often is one of the variants of marxism. Which makes them both wrong and evil.

I have thought long and hard about right, wrong, morality, what is proper. I always recognized that the intellectual road I traveled to develop my own ideas would be unreplicable for >90% of people. I very consciously choose to live among Christians, because no other group is nearly as close to what I think of as right, proper and true.

There will never be a society of 'believes just like me' but believing Christians have the best societies, and they don't toss heretics like me off of buildings, or run gulags.

More and more...I think they may be even more right than I. I still don't believe in God, but it is hard to look at the world and not believe in supernatural evil.

Blogger LIONMAN184 December 22, 2017 2:14 PM  

Nasty, toxic, noxious, incredulous, credulous, hypocritical, cowardly, mob-life, dishonest, deluded, prime examples of dunning kruger, fatuous, ingrates, degenerates, reprobates...those are just a few words that come to mind when I think of "internet atheists".

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 2:15 PM  

"I have thought long and hard about right, wrong, morality, what is proper. I always recognized that the intellectual road I traveled to develop my own ideas would be unreplicable for >90% of people. I very consciously choose to live among Christians, because no other group is nearly as close to what I think of as right, proper and true."

There's a great deal of truth to the old joke that the philosopher will some day ascend the mountain of truth, only to find that the theologian has been sitting at the peak all along.

Anonymous DissidentRight December 22, 2017 2:17 PM  

Sargon, at least, is no gamma, and he will survive one way or another.

Blogger rumpole5 December 22, 2017 2:23 PM  

Re: "an inability to make social connections and an inability to feel spiritual connections." I don't know about that. There must be a different order of misanthrope. I very much like my own company AND I very much realize the gracious presence of God in my life and in the life of others. I feel concern for others, leave a good tip at hotel and eatery, assit people I see in distress and so on, But, MPAI (including me at points and times) after all. Can't I just let them live their lives and I mine under normal circumstances? What about the many Godly hermits who sought God through solitude and refelection? Do all of us curmudgeons belong on (on under) the atheist bus?

Blogger JimR December 22, 2017 2:27 PM  

"But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it. They are nasty little creatures."

Wow! well said indeed! I don't believe, but I can find no fault with those who do. (as long as they aren't trying to saw my head off, or drive a truck over me, but that's a different discussion)

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis December 22, 2017 2:29 PM  

Crutch Kicker is a great epithet for internet atheists.

Blogger SirHamster December 22, 2017 2:31 PM  

Laz wrote:"Actually did you know Christmas is a Pagan tradition?" Was

Spoils of war. The King claims it by Right of Conquest.

Blogger Robert Browning December 22, 2017 2:32 PM  

Atheistic rejection of religion is a covert indirect assault on all religions. But should Moshiach enter the world tomorrow, atheistic Jews wouldn't nail him to a cross but would welcome him with opened arms, praise him to high heaven and worship at his feet.

Blogger DonReynolds December 22, 2017 2:34 PM  

How malicious does a person need to be to hate and despise those who do not think the same way, or believe in the same things, or follow the same religion? Is it fear? Is it their own insecurities?

A friend of mine explained it as Pink Monkey-Brown Monkey. Put a Pink Monkey in with a bunch of Brown Monkeys and the Pink Monkey will be attacked, killed, and pulled apart.

Surely there must be more to it than that. I do not mind if an Indian is a Hindu, or an Arab is a Muslim, or a Japanese is a Buddhist. It is neither surprising or disappointing. Their own personal beliefs are probably inherited and create no obligation on my part, for or against. My own ancestors fought against Roman Catholics for centuries, but I harbor no resentment or complaint. I would even say that the Roman Catholics I have known were good and decent people, perhaps even above average. People being different or thinking different simply does not trigger me.

Anonymous Stickwick December 22, 2017 2:36 PM  

But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it. They are nasty little creatures.

They often rationalize it by saying that the crutch is evil, because oppression, repression, ignorance, war, etc. etc. blah blah blah.

Ironically, skepticism would appear to be its own crutch. I never did meet an outspoken atheist who wasn't intensely insecure about something, whether his intelligence, credentials (often lack thereof), masculinity, sexual appeal, or social status. Skepticism has, at least up until now, allowed the atheist to axiomatically assign superiority to himself. That's why atheists are so tenacious, to the point of absurdity.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 2:37 PM  

Robert Browning wrote:But should Moshiach enter the world tomorrow, atheistic Jews wouldn't nail him to a cross but would welcome him with opened arms, praise him to high heaven and worship at his feet.
That's not only contrary to all lived experience, with both Jews and Atheists, that's not how it worked out last time.

DonReynolds wrote:People being different or thinking different simply does not trigger me.
Truly your virtue is palpable, even at this distance. Thanks for the signal.

Blogger The Kurgan December 22, 2017 2:38 PM  

This is why telling an atheist that his stunted emotional development makes him a mental cripple unable to reason objectively drives them up the wall.
It's great fun and exposes their logical flaws quite rapidly.

Anonymous Rather, Not December 22, 2017 2:39 PM  

@ S1AL Having started as a Catholic...there is a possibility of a round trip. Jordan Peterson's Biblical Series is very interesting in terms of exploring the multilayered depths of beliefs I once held, but did not fully understand.

But to stay on topic, yes most internet atheists are absolutely jerks, but please don't throw us all out. What each person does believe is much more important than what they don't believe. Very often, but not always, what atheists believe is reprehensible and anti-civilizational, so please purge them on that basis, rather than a lack of belief in a supernatural origin of good and evil.

Please let Stefan and I stay. I really like indoor plumbing. Even though Christian society would be better off eliminating all atheists than it is now, it would better still if you let the right 3% stay.

Blogger cmbaileytstc December 22, 2017 2:40 PM  

You seem like a good fellow. Therefore, I implore you to NOT believe that the rest of your existence will be a short painful joke that is life without any hope of God/Hereafter, followed by an eternity of box-rotting. What the hell do you have to lose?

Anonymous fop December 22, 2017 2:41 PM  

Case in point is Freethoughtblogs: The free-thought website where you will be purged for thinking the wrong things - because free-thought must be protected from wrong-think.

Blogger The Kurgan December 22, 2017 2:42 PM  

You're on the right road. Keep looking.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 22, 2017 2:42 PM  

@20 Stickwick

They are defending their Idol, "Reason". That's the damage of the Enlightenment, rather than questioning God, they invented a new one to stand in judgment over the Christian God. But their god, Reason, is weak, pathetic and murderous, which is why it calls out to them.

Blogger tublecane December 22, 2017 2:42 PM  

@10-"everyone has to have a core set of beliefs, principles, and ways to act"

True, which is why declaring yourself a skeptic is a sort of cheat. Skepticism is a tool, and a necessary one. But normal humans are skeptical about this or that, not skeptical about everything. Almost every single person who claims to be a consistent skeptic is a liar. Those few true skeptics are madmen or monsters.

This is true for a great number of intellectual tools, from rationality itself (there's always a "better guide than reason") on down. The truly rational man would be a monster, too. Or at least alien to normal people, like the half-Vulcan Spock. Which is why most who embrace the label as an identity are merely posturing. I don't think they take it seriously.

I wasn't aware there was a "skeptic community," just as I wasn't aware there were people who called themselves "brights" with a straight face. But it doesn't surprise me. Plenty probably aren't autistic, are merely following fashion, and haven't bothered to puzzle out what skepticism means. Others are conscious of it, and though they're posturing they truly are motivated by anti-social intellectual Betterism. ("I'm smarter than you because I figured out you don't have to believe everything, a mere 2,400 or so years after Socrates.")

Aggressive Atheists believe things like the rest of us, often with as little reason as involved in flipping a coin. I, for my part, am not a believer but also not pushy about it. I don't believe in a lot of things, including God. But I puzzle over the Mystery and often think there must be more than base matter.

Most importantly, I don't lack belief simply because I lack hard evidence, or don't fully understand the order of the cosmos. On the same grounds, I could disbelieve in obvious things like gravity, which by the way is one of the many fundamental aspects of reality science doesn't understand. I might apply the same skepticism to to the principle of sufficient reason, but I don't. Because I'm intellectually inconsistent, like all other humans.

Blogger cmbaileytstc December 22, 2017 2:44 PM  

I think I’m one of those people incapable of “Feeling the Spirit” but I choose to believe anyway. Because if He is not there and my soul not immortal it will all have been more suffering for pleasure to no end at all. When I imagine a universe where minds awake for a short time but then are gone forever, it’s more horrifying than having never been at all.

Blogger tz December 22, 2017 2:45 PM  

It's worse than that. You can see it in Stefan Molyneux who has realized that Christianity works and although still an atheist promotes it more than any Churchian.

Anonymous JAG December 22, 2017 2:45 PM  

I find direct parallels between obnoxious atheists, and obnoxious vegans. No shock that these types are almost always leftists. There's a lot of overlap between the two groups as well.

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 2:46 PM  

To be fair, "internet atheists" are like "televangelists". It doesn't mean all atheists who use the internet.

Every Christian society long accepted that some number of its residents would be non-Christian by practice. Even the most extreme merely required that they not proselytize.

Blogger tublecane December 22, 2017 2:46 PM  

@24-Is that you, Pascal?

Anonymous Reenay December 22, 2017 2:49 PM  

Please let Stefan and I stay. I really like indoor plumbing. Even though Christian society would be better off eliminating all atheists than it is now, it would better still if you let the right 3% stay.

If we were 100% Christian, our reasoning facilities would atrophy due to a lack of friendly, good-natured debate (fueled by beer), and you'd probably get the Puritans again. Just don't be angry internet atheists, and you'll be fine.

Blogger The Observer December 22, 2017 2:49 PM  

I find direct parallels between obnoxious atheists, and obnoxious vegans. No shock that these types are almost always leftists. There's a lot of overlap between the two groups as well.

The only real reason the vast majority of people become either is to virtue-signal and tout their moral superiority over others.

Anonymous JAG December 22, 2017 2:50 PM  

cmbaileytstc wrote:When I imagine a universe where minds awake for a short time but then are gone forever, it’s more horrifying than having never been at all.

For me, there is no Hell described by words that is even close to as horrifying as what you describe. To choose atheism is to choose depression.

Blogger Gollios December 22, 2017 2:51 PM  

"Rage Against God" by Peter Hitchens explains a lot of the aggressive atheist mindset.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener December 22, 2017 2:52 PM  

@30 Realizing that Christianity works is an important step.

Blogger Quilp December 22, 2017 2:52 PM  

"I have no intrinsic problem with people who don't believe what I do about God or anything else. But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it. They are nasty little creatures."


One of those Vox quotes that make his blog worth reading everyday.

Anonymous A Former Spartan December 22, 2017 2:57 PM  

No, it isn't. That cannard is as dead as Julian the Apostate who first tried it just short of a couple thousand years ago.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd December 22, 2017 2:57 PM  

Is Sargon a race creationist?

Anonymous Looking Glass December 22, 2017 2:59 PM  

@28 tublecane

Another aspect to deal with "skeptics" comes down to some baseline identity association issues. If I hold up a smartphone, I expect you to know what it is. It is, now, a common, cultural item, and the inability to recognize it means you're an "unknowing rube".

Now, smartphones require a lot of near-atomic level & solid-state physics. Of the totality of what is needed to make a smart phone, there's only a few thousand people on the planet that know the concepts deep enough to produce a smart phone. Thus, over 99% of the modern population is operating on "faith" in the nature of the way a smartphone works.

The "skeptic community" is little more than people that say smartphones work by Magic. This is part of what drives that rather harsh divergence over the topic. Anyone within the normal range will look at an atheists as some combination of "pathetic rube" and mentally deranged, whether they realize it or not.

Identity matters for the coming wars. Identity matters for more than just nations.

Blogger tublecane December 22, 2017 3:00 PM  

@34-Even Oceania wasn't 100% in love with Big Brother (though the Inner Party was working on that), so you don't have to worry.

Intellectual homogeneity doesn't hurt a society, up to a certain point. Other things cause more atrophy in reasoning faculties, like denial of apparent reality. For instance, our current obsession with coming up with new ways to describe ignoring the fact that "gender" is (mostly) binary.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd December 22, 2017 3:03 PM  

The idea that atheism is the product of autism is extremely fascinating. I've noticed that most atheists who are aggressive are emotionally dead. They don't show emotion when listening to music, interacting with others, etc. They may show emotion when arguing about religion, but generally not at other times.

My father was THE emotionally dead atheist, though he was more of a sociopath than a gamma. Of course, those may not be mutually exclusive. The pattern seems to hold about emotional deadness, though.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 22, 2017 3:05 PM  

I've long been bemused by the "Religion is Child Abuse!" form of modern atheists.

They claim to believe that:
1. Religion is child abuse
2. We should all stop it immediately
3. Evolution only retains and generalises those features that enhance survivability

I've never yet met, seen or heard of a single one of them that perceives the suicidal contradiction in this set of assertions.

Blogger Lovekraft December 22, 2017 3:07 PM  

youtube video of Millennial Woes critiquing Kraut and Tea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=WgmfYaFQEdM

MW pinned this comment on the comment thread:

"f you want to understand people like Kraut, think of them like militant agnostics. That is, "no one knows the answer." This is all that they attempt to prove and are satisfied in doing so. Which is why they never move beyond dismissal and into possible explanations as to why their opponents think or behave a certain way. This brand of agnosticism lends itself directly to egalitarianism, since it denies whatever belief, whatever standard you have for the 'better' or 'greater'. Instead, outright denying your ability to determine such things, given their claim that it (truth) simply cannot be known and thus cannot be logically acted upon in any objective fashion. I could go on."

Blogger Nick S December 22, 2017 3:09 PM  

They often rationalize it by saying that the crutch is evil, because..., etc. etc. blah blah blah.

You're right, of course, Stickwick, but when you ask them, by who's metric, they rarely grasp the profundity of the question.

Blogger Lovekraft December 22, 2017 3:10 PM  

Don't we enter the world as 'multiple-arians' with no ability to discern right from wrong, safe from unsafe?

We are accordingly taught how to discern, using fables, legends etc.

We then find a duality as our intellects evolve. Good evil, up down, with varying degrees in between.

The final stage, in my opinion, is Single/Unity. Accepting we have a role to play under God's Supreme guidance (as our own flawed egos make His absence into a world of chaos).

Anonymous Jack Amok December 22, 2017 3:11 PM  

But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it.

Especially when the best most of the crutch-kickers can do is crawl, barely able to lift their faces out of the mud long enough to breathe.

But then that's the point of their behavior, isn't it? They want everyone else down in the mud with them.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 22, 2017 3:13 PM  

I concluded years ago that the core problem for atheists is submission. They won’t submit to god. And they don’t like it when you do.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 22, 2017 3:16 PM  

I think they wouldn't mind when you do, as long as you weren't therefore and thereafter happier than they.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:18 PM  

"I have no intrinsic problem with people who don't believe what I do about God or anything else. But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it."

It's for their own good. They should be thanking the Gammas.

There is no God. There is no savior. Save yourself.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:20 PM  

"I think they wouldn't mind when you do, as long as you weren't therefore and thereafter happier than they."

It's impossible to submit to god. There is no god. It's a matter of submitting to fear. Don't. You'll be a better man.

Blogger pnq8787 December 22, 2017 3:22 PM  

The problem with Christianity, as I see it, is that it fits the individualism/globalism paradigm to a tee, and hence represents a fatal weak spot for any nation that adopts it. Let me explain this with the preface that this is just my current understanding, nothing more; I am not a theologian.

Christianity puts emphasis upon individual salvation. Christ makes no distinction between black and white, yellow or brown, all are judged by the same moral standards and all are judged as individuals according to either their works or their faith or a combination of both depending on your theological interpretation. Since every individual must look out for his own salvation as the highest priority, it follows that where the good of the nation conflicts with the need to acheive individual salvation, the Christian must choose individual salvation. Thus the Christian must always choose to virtue-signal to God. This is why the Christian can not bring himself to machine gun murder un-armed helpless refugees who are flooding his nation; even though doing so would prevent many more deaths in the long run. This is why the Christian brings food to Africa which alleviates suffering in the short run and is a good virtue-signal to God, but in the long run just causes the population of Africa to boom and results in more suffering. The individualist is not separate from the globalist, they are one and the same person. In addition to this, Christianity has a specific mandate to prostelytize to the whole world and convert them all. I am fundamentally opposed to this mission. I do not look forward to a bland one-world culture.

As a perfect counter-example of this, take the Japanese. The Japanese have a traditional Shinto folk religion combined with Buddhism. When Christianity tried to take hold there, the Christians were murdered. Yet today the Japanese retain their traditional ways and live highly functional lives with aethetically refined cultural achievements.

So yes, Christianity may be good for white Americans today as an individual "crutch" to help one struggle and find meaning in life. But to think that Christianity is a flawless cure-all for the world would, in my opinion, be a mistake.

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 3:27 PM  

"It's impossible to submit to god. There is no god. It's a matter of submitting to fear. Don't. You'll be a better man."

Greetings, atheist sperg. I'm curious if the Josh test hold true here:

Do you have children?

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 3:30 PM  

> Save yourself.

From what? Death? Good luck with that.

> ...it follows that where the good of the nation conflicts with the need to acheive individual salvation, the Christian must choose individual salvation.

Of course. Now, try to find one legitimate example of that being the case.

> This is why the Christian can not bring himself to machine gun murder un-armed helpless refugees who are flooding his nation

You don't know us very well, do you?

> This is why the Christian brings food to Africa which alleviates suffering in the short run and is a good virtue-signal to God, but in the long run just causes the population of Africa to boom and results in more suffering.

Some of us realized that 30 years ago.

> I am fundamentally opposed to this mission. I do not look forward to a bland one-world culture.

Do the Germans, the French, the Danes, and the British all have the same culture? They were all, at one time, Christian.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:30 PM  

"Greetings, atheist sperg. I'm curious if the Josh test hold true here:

Do you have children?"

Good afternoon, S1Al. Yes. I do have children. I have two, as a matter of fact, with my wife of 22 years. They too have not bought into the Cult of the Crutch. Do you have children?

Blogger tublecane December 22, 2017 3:30 PM  

@46-"This brand of agnosticism lends itself directly to egalitarianism, since it denies whatever belief, whatever standard you have for the 'better' or 'greater'."

It could just as easily be turned against egalitarianism. Like, what evidence do we have that everyone is equal? We can't know that, so our default belief must that we're unequal.

Militant Agnosticism, if it actually exists separate from militant atheism, tends towards egalitarianism pressure because egalitarianism is the dominant intellectual trend. And though these people have worked out skepticism towards possible deities, they haven't bothered being skeptical about other things out culture drills into people's heads.

Or, per Vox's theory, they possess personality types that predispose them to being both militant agnostics and egalitarians. I guess those go together, at least in our civilization as it stands.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:32 PM  

"> This is why the Christian can not bring himself to machine gun murder un-armed helpless refugees who are flooding his nation

You don't know us very well, do you?"

Suggesting you WOULD be willing to machine gun unarmed refugees? Ah! You never have. You never will. And not because you are christian.

Blogger Felix Bellator December 22, 2017 3:33 PM  

OT, but atheists can join in: please pray for Mrs. Bellator and Felix Jr. to recover from the crud they have and for me to recover from surgery so I can get back in this fight.

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 3:34 PM  

I do. Congratulations on being more effective at preserving Western Civilization than many.

Now, James Dixon asked the pertinent question:

From what, precisely, do I need to save myself? The vast achievements of the Christian West? Peace and contentment on this Earth? The hope of Heaven?

I've considered the atheist position. It is a full, drab, and dreary lie, promising only freedom from judgment for sins committed in this life. There is no solace in that thought.

Blogger Felix Bellator December 22, 2017 3:38 PM  

@61 S1AL, "It is a full, drab, and dreary lie, promising only freedom from judgment for sins committed in this life." But the atheists have no sin. They are doctors all.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:40 PM  

"From what, precisely, do I need to save myself? The vast achievements of the Christian West? Peace and contentment on this Earth? The hope of Heaven?"

From the lies that sit at the foundation of your being. There is no God. If Western Civ's achievements have much to do with the West believing in the Christian myth, so be it. But then we might want to examine all aspects of Western Civ that have been supported by this myth. They are not all pretty. And none of the good and bad can overcome the fact that the foundation of your inner life is a lie. Save yourself from the lies.

"I've considered the atheist position. It is a full, drab, and dreary lie, promising only freedom from judgment for sins committed in this life. There is no solace in that thought."

There is no freedom from judgement. You community, your family, your peers will judge your contribution to the community, family and their lives.

Don't lie to yourself or others. There is no god.

Blogger Luke December 22, 2017 3:40 PM  

Everyone's favorite site reports Kraut and Tea has retreated.

https://dailystormer.red/top-skeptic-jew-kraut-tea-deletes-channel-after-failed-jihad-against-the-alt-right/

I confirmed that his YouTube channel is devoid of content. Curious!

Blogger dadofhomeschoolers December 22, 2017 3:43 PM  

I have known very few atheists, I habe known a fair pile of God haters.

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 3:44 PM  

"There is no God."

How arrogant do you need to be to claim such knowledge? Religious men can at least cite divine revelation. You have only your own observations.

There's a reason such a claim is the mark of a fool.

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 3:45 PM  

> Suggesting you WOULD be willing to machine gun unarmed refugees? Ah! You never have. You never will.

No, suggesting that the majority of Christians here would, not just me. As I said, you don't know "us" very well.

Personally, I never have. I've never had to and I probably never will have to, as I'm getting up there in years now. But you never know.

But you stated as an absolute "the Christian cannot bring himself to", which is a blatant lie. The Christian most certainly can.

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 3:48 PM  

> From the lies that sit at the foundation of your being.

There are no lies at the foundation of my being. I don't know God exists, I believe God exists. I may be wrong. If so, I'll die and that will be the end of it. Nothing will have been lost.

> There is no God.

Prove it. We'll wait.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:51 PM  

"How arrogant do you need to be to claim such knowledge? Religious men can at least cite divine revelation. You have only your own observations."

Give up your delusions. Take my advice and you'll thank me. There is only one life...why spend it in the service of a lie? We are each responsible for ourselves. Our actions will be judged in the hear and now by the only possible authority....our fellow man. The consequences for your actions will be felt, however, long after you are indistinguishable from dirt.

Blogger Redpill Angel December 22, 2017 3:53 PM  

A therapist friend told me that most atheists have broken relationships with their fathers, and this seems to be true in my experience.

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 3:54 PM  

Atheists and communists, always resorting to the judgment of the almighty State.

It's so predictable. As is the outcome.

And you didn't even answer the question. Sad!

Blogger Redpill Angel December 22, 2017 3:55 PM  

FI don't mean I'm an atheist, but the atheists I know.

Blogger Luke December 22, 2017 3:57 PM  

The atheist psychological cycle appears to operate in the following manner:

1) Tell yourself you are innately superior due to your ability to believe in fables of reality that exclude God.

2) Feel bad about your life's being meaningless.

3) Feel super-superior for not only being superior, but for realizing that your godless religion allows you publicly proclaim your superiority for no reason other than to make others as miserable as yourself, all while doing them a service by endarkening them.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora December 22, 2017 4:01 PM  

This is not an organized attack by alt-whiters. It's a response to an organized attack against race realists. There was a secret server of people trying to find personal info on youtube race realists like Stefan, Alternative Hypothesis, JF, and even others like Lauren Southern. None of those people even identify as Alt Right. JF and a few of Kraut's former friends have been behind this backlash mostly.

Blogger Luke December 22, 2017 4:02 PM  

I was once witnessing to an atheist, and for some reason I was homing in on the idea of enjoying a relationship with a heavenly Father. He stopped the conversation cold, right there, proclaiming "My father was an aşshole!"

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 4:04 PM  

@Solaire -

Something, something, always claim outsized influence? Always blame the Jews?

Where have I heard that before...

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 4:05 PM  

> There is only one life...why spend it in the service of a lie?

You're the one making a claim you can't prove. Why don't you answer your own question?

Blogger SirHamster December 22, 2017 4:06 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> There is only one life...why spend it in the service of a lie?

You're the one making a claim you can't prove. Why don't you answer your own question?


What's wrong with serving lies, anyways?

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 4:07 PM  

> Our actions will be judged in the hear and now by the only possible authority....our fellow man.

I don't recognize their authority.

> The consequences for your actions will be felt, however, long after you are indistinguishable from dirt.

And why, if you are correct, should I care?

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 4:08 PM  

> What's wrong with serving lies, anyways?

I guess it would depend on how well they're seasoned and cooked.

Anonymous Rather, Not December 22, 2017 4:15 PM  

I would caution people against using 'the atheist position'...there is no such thing. There is no unifying belief system that unifies atheists. What they don't believe is not important, it is what they do that is.

You can learn nothing about the modest similarities and important differences between Christianity and Hinduism from the fact that both disbelieve Mohammed was a prophet delivering divine guidance. Similarly the atheist bucket is no more meaningful than the not-Muslim bucket.

Blogger S1AL December 22, 2017 4:17 PM  

Atheists explicitly believe that there is no God. They literally believe an absolute negative. That's all the unifying belief needed to counter it.

Anonymous Anonymous December 22, 2017 4:22 PM  

Every time I witness a gamma erupting, I direct a mental high-five towards Vox and thank him for explaining all this. Gammas have a kind of... a smell... like a disturbance in the Force or something, that I learned to recognize by now, and this is very helpful.

@20 - Stickwick

> I never did meet an outspoken atheist who wasn't intensely insecure about something, whether his intelligence, credentials (often lack thereof), masculinity, sexual appeal, or social status.

Being atheist/agnostic and not insecure, I was about to comment on this, then realized you were thoughtful enough to add "outspoken"... which makes this quite bulletproof. Yeah, even though I don't believe, I would only mention it if the conversation was about this particular subject. I find those who make great efforts to insist on their atheism to be tasteless.

I don't feel threatened by your beliefs. In fact, if your religion makes you a better person... then good for you!

Lefties hate and envy people who have more success, more fame, more money, more mojo, etc. The same logic dictates that they would direct the same hate towards people who have more "spiritual strength" due to religion.

The existence of people who are better than me isn't a threat, rather it is a source of inspiration.

Trying to understand libtards is a reliable source of headaches.

At some point, when I was young and stupid, I did think that religion was a crutch. Reflecting back, this might have been due to the fact that all I knew about religion was local churchians, and that is not, shall we say... flattering.

Now, I think that religion is an important part of culture, and culture is an operating system for human brains. Christian culture is the OS for western civilization. Thus, whether I believe in God or not isn't very relevant. What matters to me is the fact that Christian-based culture yields the best civilization we have. Thus, I choose to respect it, simply because it works...


Blogger Cetera December 22, 2017 4:24 PM  

Here I thought I was fairly fluent in online activities and communities...

Can someone give a paragraph summary of what all this is about?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 22, 2017 4:37 PM  

@48 Lovecraft
Don't we enter the world as 'multiple-arians' with no ability to discern right from wrong, safe from unsafe?

No. We are born sinners.

As for atheists, some of the most miserable people I have known online and in real life were atheists. Misery loves company. They want others to be as miserable as they are.

Blogger Wolfman at Large December 22, 2017 4:41 PM  

It was the internet atheists that drove me back to God.

Blogger Nate73 December 22, 2017 4:49 PM  

I've followed the Kraut drama carefully. I think there must be some truth to this post, because not only do the "rationalist skeptics" that I do listen to refuse to be part of this Skeptic Community(TM), but people like Sargon that really think for themselves soon find they have outgrown it.

In fairness to Kraut and Tea he probably realized that without feminism and SJWs the youtube skeptics have nothing to talk about. Feminism and SJWs still control a lot of institutions, but on youtube they've been mostly driven away. Taking on the alt-right seemed like the logical next step, so his desperation to prove race and IQ are unrelated is at least understandable.

Blogger ace December 22, 2017 4:50 PM  

I can vouch for what our host has to say about autism and spiritual and social connections. The problem is not just that I (and others) have those unfortunate impulses, as a defect of birth, but that they are so readily reinforced as perfectly normal and even superior by Cathedral forces. What a siren song it is to be told that your brokenness is actually a strength and a source of pride. Then again, we wouldn't be here if that lie weren't so pervasive. I'm eternally grateful to the alt right for lighting the way out of the poisoned fortress. Merry Christmas.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 22, 2017 4:52 PM  

Dammit, Google ate my first comment after claiming to post it.  Bastards.

I have no intrinsic problem with people who don't believe what I do about God or anything else. But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it. They are nasty little creatures.
The problem is when the crutch-users insist that their crutch requires others to act in ways which are manifestly against our own (often including the believer's) interests.  As an example, the crutch of sportsball addiction is used to sell dindu-worship and other destructive and anti-civilizational things.  This hit home in my state a while back when a very important welfare reform was scuttled by pro-life pressure for fear it would increase abortions.  We are now suffering possibly twice as many dindus as we would have, had that reform passed.

This had very real costs for real people.  Amanda Blackburn, Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian are just a few of the thousands of dead, and there are millions of lesser victims.  Pro-lifers were accessories before the fact, insisting that the producers of the murderers be paid to spawn them.

Blogger Cloom Glue December 22, 2017 4:54 PM  

Cetera wrote:Here I thought I was fairly fluent in online activities and communities...

Can someone give a paragraph summary of what all this is about?


I went searching and listening and I liked channel "Mister Metokur" summary video on youtube which came out yesterday, entitled, Tales of Trout Part 1: Rage Before The Storm

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 4:56 PM  

"> There is only one life...why spend it in the service of a lie?

You're the one making a claim you can't prove. Why don't you answer your own question?"

Sure. I can answer that question. You would spend your life in the service of the lie that there is a God, that He loves you and that there is life after death only if you had no personal courage, only if you were afraid your poor treatment of your fellow man was unexcuseable, only if you lacked curiosity about your world.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 22, 2017 4:58 PM  

tublecane wrote:Militant Agnosticism, if it actually exists separate from militant atheism, tends towards egalitarianism pressure because egalitarianism is the dominant intellectual trend.
If any part of Ayn Rand still existed, she'd be sniggering at you right now.

@67  Were I the head of a European government with a column of military-aged male invaders crossing my neighbor's territory toward mine with their consent, I'd inform that government that permitting such an invading force to cross was an act of war and dispatch infantry and armor to the border checkpoints.  I'd order the armed forces to destroy the invasion force with canister, mortars and small-arms fire when it arrived.  I would also recall my ambassador for consultations.  Then I would hold a parade in the honor of the troops who protected the country.

As a godless atheist patriot, I have only my people to worry about.

@70  My father would have been greatly surprised if you told him that.

Luke wrote:The atheist psychological cycle appears to operate in the following manner:

1) Tell yourself you are innately superior due to your ability to believe in fables of reality that exclude God.

2) Feel bad about your life's being meaningless.

<sigh>  Smells like projection, definitely a failure of imagination.  In my case it was the realization that what I was being taught was (a) inconsistent with the real world and made anti-sense for understanding it, and (b) getting increasingly crazy over time as the hierarchy went fundamentalist.  That's when I bailed mentally.  Nothing to do with life at home.  Catechism cured me of Christianity.

I notice that a lot of believers have trouble digesting scientific facts because of (a); they have been taught anti-sense and also that their souls depend on sticking to it.  It's impossible to have a dialectic discussion about such matters with them, and that includes a bunch of present company.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 4:59 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> There is only one life...why spend it in the service of a lie?

You're the one making a claim you can't prove. Why don't you answer your own question?


Because his frame control is stronger than those who touch the poop. Notice the way he repeats the phrase "There is no God" like a mantra. Compare to self-hypnosis scripts. He isn't talking to your conscious mind, he's imprinting an emotional connection on your subconscious.

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 5:03 PM  

> Sure. I can answer that question.

But then you carefully redirect it and refuse to do so. Liar.

> ...only if you had no personal courage, only if you were afraid your poor treatment of your fellow man was unexcuseable, only if you lacked curiosity about your world.

SJW's always project.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 5:04 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Aeoli wrote:Actually did you know Christmas is a Pagan tradition?

Don't thnik we don't know what you're doing....


I was just making a joke, but looking back I shouldn't have done that one because it's potentially a thread derailer. Fortunately the train is fine.

Blogger James Dixon December 22, 2017 5:11 PM  

> I notice that a lot of believers have trouble digesting scientific facts because ... and that includes a bunch of present company.

"There are more things in heaven and earth", Mr. Rational, "than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

> He isn't talking to your conscious mind, he's imprinting an emotional connection on your subconscious.

He's trying, mayhap. Failing miserably though. Well, unless he's trying to establish an extreme dislike of Internet atheists. He's succeeding at that. But that's largely unfair to Mr. Rational, who at least is looking for the truth.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 5:14 PM  

"But then you carefully redirect it and refuse to do so. Liar."

Is it the faith in God in you that prevents honesty? Is it self doubt that prevents you from seeing that the questions was directly answered? Is it fear in reckoning that There is no god?

Anonymous Jack Amok December 22, 2017 5:16 PM  

The problem is when the crutch-users insist that their crutch requires others to act in ways which are manifestly against our own (often including the believer's) interests.

Damn right, which is why we hate Gaia-worshipping Global Warmingmongers so much.

Anonymous Anonymous December 22, 2017 5:19 PM  

"Don't lie to yourself or others. There is no god."

Most people I have met who think they are atheists are really not. They just rail against the Christian God. In fact, the honest ones are agnostic.

We exist and so does the universe. Were did matter come from? Where did life come from? Have you ever seen a dead thing bring forth life? Have you ever seen nothingness bring forth something?

Whatever brought forth the universe and life is God. I don't require that you believe in God the way I do; but if you are intellectually honest you will admit that the first cause of the chain of being must be called God and must exist or did exit.

To claim there is no God or that there never was a God is arrogant ignorance.

Blogger tublecane December 22, 2017 5:21 PM  

@92-The point was that's the direction in which it TENDS. More atheists will be otherwise in line with mainstream opinion for people of their general type (not necessarily personality-wise, but class, intelligence, educational level, and politics-wise), if for no other reason than because there are so many more of them.

How many Objectivists were there, ever? And how many were actually atheists, for that matter? The number of progressive egalitarians dwarfs them, and among those people you will find probably the bulk of atheists.

People follow intellectual fashions like everything else. If they don't follow the theistic fashion, odds are they nevertheless follow other fashions. Rand was quite unusually unfashionable.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 5:22 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> He isn't talking to your conscious mind, he's imprinting an emotional connection on your subconscious.

He's trying, mayhap. Failing miserably though. Well, unless he's trying to establish an extreme dislike of Internet atheists. He's succeeding at that. But that's largely unfair to Mr. Rational, who at least is looking for the truth.


To be clear, I mean "you" in the proverbial sense of the greater audience. And he's doing a fantastic job of staying on script. The trick to engaging in rhetoric with a disingenuous person is not playing within the rules they set, because this automatically cedes the moral high ground. And once you are playing within his frame, the outcome will play out according to the logical conclusions of his ruleset.

Because the audience here is mostly white people, the winning move (if you play) is to demonstrate that CrimsonDei is a hypocrite.

Blogger Roger Hill December 22, 2017 5:27 PM  

"But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it. They are nasty little creatures."

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've witnessed that combination from atheist, internet and otherwise. This kind of combination truly does ooze from a dark heart. If what they believe were actually true, then it would be no different than calling a crutch a crutch and then kicking out from under the weaker man.

Other first hand experiences of such atheist combinations are simply stupid. These come from actual conversations...
"Belief in God is probably due to a particular genetic predisposition."
Then less than a paragraph later...
"How can you possibly believe such nonsense?"

And "How can you believe in a God who would condemn anyone to an eternity of torment?"
Followed up in the next Email with, "...and this idea of Christ paying for the sins of the world, which would allow rapist and murderers to escape justice."

And one of my favorites from an atheist friend, and pretty much the same behavior VD relates..
"You see, I understand that religion just helps sooth you by hiding the fact that we live on an insignificant speck in an ultimately purposeless universe."
Then a few paragraphs later...
"Religion poisons everything! Unless we reject such myths on a massive scale, man will never reach his true potential."

Anonymous LurkingPuppy December 22, 2017 5:31 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Catechism cured me of Christianity.
The Roman Catholic Church was guaranteed from the beginning to become evil, just as the Old Testament and Talmudist religions were. Morality is like grammar and obscenity: Even people who have a good sense of it can't codify it into a uniform set of absolute laws. (Even God can't codify morality into laws; “Thou shalt not murder.” just moves the moral judgement into the definition of “murder”.)

The lawyer cults build up a pile of human traditions and have no mechanism to admit that their past popes/priests/whatevers have made errors or that their laws need to be changed. Stories, on the other hand, can convey a sense of morality without having to cover all the edge cases or claim to be timeless or global.

My (limited) understanding is that one of the main points of the New Testament is “God Hates Lawyers.”.

Jack Amok wrote:Damn right, which is why we hate Gaia-worshipping Global Warmingmongers so much.
He has a good point about high CO2 levels impairing cognitive function. Humanity needs to find a way to reduce atmospheric CO2 levels ASAP, before the next glaciation starts and spikes them through the roof.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 5:31 PM  

"Whatever brought forth the universe and life is God. I don't require that you believe in God the way I do; but if you are intellectually honest you will admit that the first cause of the chain of being must be called God and must exist or did exit. "

We atheists, when we remind you there is no god, are referring to our Christian and Jewish and Islamic and Hindu gods. These tales are absurd fictions carried on by people frieghtened by life. The fact that we simultaneously have no answer to the questions, "What does it mean" in no way distracts us from the folly of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

You know what is meant and you know its the truth when we remind you there is no god.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 5:34 PM  

Is it the faith in God in you that prevents honesty? Is it self doubt that prevents you from seeing that the questions was directly answered? Is it fear in reckoning that There is no god?

Is it the refusal to believe in Truth that prevents honesty? Is it self doubt that prevents you from seeing that the question was already answered? Is it fear in reckoning that you are not God?

Is it sloppiness in cutting and pasting your repetitive nonsense that leads to bad capitalization?

Blogger Dire Badger December 22, 2017 5:36 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> Save yourself.

From what? Death? Good luck with that.

> ...it follows that where the good of the nation conflicts with the need to acheive individual salvation, the Christian must choose individual salvation.

Of course. Now, try to find one legitimate example of that being the case.

> This is why the Christian can not bring himself to machine gun murder un-armed helpless refugees who are flooding his nation

You don't know us very well, do you?

> This is why the Christian brings food to Africa which alleviates suffering in the short run and is a good virtue-signal to God, but in the long run just causes the population of Africa to boom and results in more suffering.

Some of us realized that 30 years ago.

> I am fundamentally opposed to this mission. I do not look forward to a bland one-world culture.

Do the Germans, the French, the Danes, and the British all have the same culture? They were all, at one time, Christian.


Some of us, the warriors, forsake individual salvation to allow others to have that chance.

If there is a Hell, I know I am going there for the evils I have done for my family, my species, my faith, and my nation, as well as the ones I KNOW I will do in the future. I chose to shoulder that burden that others may have a chance to find their own salvation.

I only hope there really IS a purgatory. But if there is not, I will pay the price, and I knew it when I started.

Anonymous JAG December 22, 2017 5:39 PM  

Definite gamma. Of the two types of atheist, the current one we have is the gamma variety. You can smell the smugness masking the deep seated knowledge of it's own worthlessness through the monitor. Yes, gammas do have a certain "smell" as mentioned above.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 5:41 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Is it the faith in God in you that prevents honesty? Is it self doubt that prevents you from seeing that the questions was directly answered? Is it fear in reckoning that There is no god?

Is it the refusal to believe in Truth that prevents honesty? Is it self doubt that prevents you from seeing that the question was already answered? Is it fear in reckoning that you are not God?

Is it sloppiness in cutting and pasting your repetitive nonsense that leads to bad capitalization?


He's doing that to trigger the anterior cingulate cortex's error-checking function. It's an intentional distraction.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 5:43 PM  

"If there is a Hell, I know I am going there for the evils I have done for my family, my species, my faith, and my nation, as well as the ones I KNOW I will do in the future."

You have nothing to worry about. There is no Hell. There is no Heaven. Apologize now to those you have harmed, but should not have. Ask their forgiveness. Ask how you can repay them and you will live up to your potential. But don't waste your time in the service of a myth. There is no god.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 5:44 PM  

I just thought I'd flip it back at him. It's odd just how much projection there is here. And what amateurish rhetorical technique.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 22, 2017 5:47 PM  

"Christianity puts emphasis upon individual salvation."

That's a rather broad brush you're painting with. There is a wide range of emphasis between corporate and individual relationships with God and Christ Jesus' work of salvation within what most would consider the nominal borders of Christendom.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 5:47 PM  

I mean, you'd think that someone dedicating so much obvious effort to what he's doing to at least realize that he's doing the "This would work on me, so it's obviously very persuasive" thing. Especially when it's so obviously not even working to annoy anyone, which is his secondary quest objective.

Blogger SirHamster December 22, 2017 5:48 PM  

Aeoli wrote:Because the audience here is mostly white people, the winning move (if you play) is to demonstrate that CrimsonDei is a hypocrite.

From the first post:

CrimsonDei wrote:"I have no intrinsic problem with people who don't believe what I do about God or anything else. But I utterly despise those who first proclaim that religion is a crutch, then promptly attempt to kick out that crutch from others who are reliant upon it."

It's for their own good. They should be thanking the Gammas.

There is no God. There is no savior. Save yourself.



Supports kicking down cripples, calls it "good".

What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways? Steals theistic terminology - but redefines it upside down.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( the Original Militant Apathist ) December 22, 2017 5:48 PM  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs++9%3A10&version=NKJV

https://infogalactic.com/info/Sand_Creek_massacre

63. CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 3:40 PM
Don't lie to yourself or others. There is no god.



Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence.

please to be demonstrating your 'proof' that there is no God.


89. Mr. Rational December 22, 2017 4:52 PM
Pro-lifers were accessories before the fact, insisting that the producers of the murderers be paid to spawn them.


*snort*

not even close. refusing to pay for abortions says nothing about requiring the state to pay for single mothers.

all those Fed and State level programs to provide "aid" to single mothers comes straight from the Cultural Marxists and the Orthodox Marxists before them. they pretty much didn't exist in this country before FDR's New Deal Socialism.

Christians historically require pregnant women to get married and/or depend upon their family and local church. ie - there is a lot of Social Disapproval involved in birthing bastards in a culturally Christian society.

Marxists don't want parents involved in rearing their own children anyways. it interferes with the creation of the New Soviet Man, so they LOVE single mothers and broken homes.


91. CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 4:56 PM
only if you had no personal courage


there having never been a Christian anywhere in the history of the world who had one iota of personnel courage.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Charles_George_Gordon

https://infogalactic.com/info/Charles_Martel#Battle_of_Tours_in_732

Blogger Dire Badger December 22, 2017 5:51 PM  

Crimsondei-

Do you believe in Evolution?
Have you noticed that in virtually every historical culture on earth there is a strong current of religion?
You know, evolutionarily, there HAS to be a reason Humans possess such a strong urge to worship a god. Either A) Almost every single human in History was incredibly stupid, or B) They figured out something you simply are incapable of grasping.

Most Atheists believe A). They only pay lip service to Occam's razor because if they really considered it, they might feel like morons.

You should probably never open up the hood of your car. You are likely to start ripping out every single component you cannot recognize because there's 'clearly no reason for it'. Right after you give Evolution the finger.

Blogger Tom December 22, 2017 5:52 PM  

"What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways?"

Human well being. Truth. Empathy

Blogger OGRE December 22, 2017 5:52 PM  

"Apologize now to those you have harmed, but should not have. Ask their forgiveness."

- Why should he? Under what metric has he harmed anyone? What does that even mean, to cause harm? And why is it a bad thing to cause harm, such the he is under some unspecified obligation to offer apologies?

"Ask how you can repay them and you will live up to your potential."

- What potential? What does that even mean? Is there some standard you are referring to separate and above us that we are to measure ourselves against? Why must one strive to become more like this standard? What purpose does it serve?

"But don't waste your time in the service of a myth."

- Why not?? Why would that be a bad thing? Just because you disapprove? Or are you referring again to some mystical standard by which we are to be judged?

Where is this coming from, all this morality you describe?

Jesus Christ, you sermonize more than any preacher I've ever heard.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 5:57 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:I just thought I'd flip it back at him. It's odd just how much projection there is here. And what amateurish rhetorical technique.

On the contrary, he's quite good. An enlightened messenger of Lucifer, if I'm not mistaken. I'm tempted to step in because he's too smart to trigger the moderators, and I don't think you guys are equipped for a deceiver of his caliber.

CrimsonDei wrote:You have nothing to worry about. There is no Hell. There is no Heaven. Apologize now to those you have harmed, but should not have. Ask their forgiveness. Ask how you can repay them and you will live up to your potential. But don't waste your time in the service of a myth. There is no god.

Teach us, oh enlightened one, how does an honest man live?

Blogger SirHamster December 22, 2017 5:58 PM  

Tom wrote:"What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways?"

Human well being. Truth. Empathy


Well being? Such as kicking out crutches from cripples?

Truth - why? Aren't there useful lies that increase human well being?

Empathy - sharing feelings with another human being isn't a value system. The empathetic torturer may well be weeping in empathy as he increases his own well being by extracting confessions from his victim.

Is that your best shot?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 22, 2017 6:02 PM  

Speaking of secret kings, one of them was arrested for plotting his Jihad in that Christian strong hold of San Francisco

Anonymous Kreator December 22, 2017 6:05 PM  

@CrimsonDei

[There is no Hell. There is no Heaven.]

Please, are per rule 2 of this blog, provide proof of your assertion or be blocked.

Blogger Cloom Glue December 22, 2017 6:09 PM  

I think CrimsonDei inadvertently called himself "God's Crimson".

That is a laughable goof-up right there, for somebody denying God, and yet expressing possession by God.

So why pick that name? The music on youtube named CrimsonDei?

Oopsie. Better change names or else the "we athiests" will club its own, like Kraut and Tea.

Blogger Dire Badger December 22, 2017 6:09 PM  

When you gun down a boat full of starving africans begging for food because you know full well that some of those boats are carrying armed men and explosive devices, you know you are committing an evil act.

The alternative, of course, is watching your shipmates die.

That does not excuse the evil you have committed. You make the decision to accept that evil in order to give YOUR people the chance to live their lives and maybe do the right thing.

If you gun down a child carrying an IED, you know the same thing.

If you shoot a man because he is threatening your family, you cannot know that he was going to carry out that threat.You might not even know if he is CAPABLE of carrying out that threat. You do it because you must, and you willingly accept the consequences for doing so.

It's just that simple. Often a good Christian must look to the salvation of others before he can look to his own. That's called being a man, a soldier, a protector, a father. You cannot 'apologize to those who you have wronged', because you know, often deep down, that you would do the same thing again. an Apology would be nothing more than lying words.

If your child dies in the commission of some horrible act due to their stupidity, a good father would willingly go to hell in his child's place.

Atheists do not understand morality, and they do not understand responsibility. Why would they? after all, protecting your child does nothing for YOU if you are dead... why care about anything at all beyond your desires of the moment? Why would you care about your posterity? You will not be there to enjoy their future... what does it matter?

Atheist= Nihilist. always.

Anonymous Anonymous December 22, 2017 6:10 PM  

@104

"You know what is meant and you know its the truth when we remind you there is no god."

Indeed. You cleared it up --- and told me that you are merely saying that you don't believe Christianity mainly; and you also toss in a couple of other mainline belief systems. So? You back away from saying that there is no first cause of life.

My reading of science and logic taught me that there is no life that comes from non-life and no "stuff" that just appears.

Perhaps you would be more comfortable with Satanism? Many modern people are. No shame in that for you --- go for the ultimate evil. What, perhaps Cthulhu would be more to your liking. There was that amusing try to get him to run in the 2016 presidential race.

Blogger Dire Badger December 22, 2017 6:22 PM  

I won't demand that Crimsondei 'prove' there is no god, for the same reason that I won't demand that someone who asserts god is real has to 'prove' it. It is unfalsifiable, therefore 'proof' is not assertible... I doubt that, even with the rules of this blog, proof can be required for an unfalsifiable claim.

of course, Christianity (or any other religion) DOES, in fact, have a falsifiable condition. It is simply theism in general that does not.

That falsifiable condition is very simple... God shows up and states that the religion is incorrect. It's actually kind of funny... researching the EXISTENCE if God is not science, but researching the NATURE of god is, in fact, legitimately scientific.

That's why I have such trouble understanding why 'real science' has any conflict with 'real religion' outside of the unfalsifiable debate about the existence of God. If there is a conflict, it is always because one side or the other has chosen to drag the 'existence' of god into the equation.

research into evolution? if you want to figure out HOW god chose to create the creatures in the world, more power to you. It only comes to debate when you add in the unfalsifiable condition that 'god didn't do that."

Anonymous Rather, Not December 22, 2017 6:35 PM  

'What is good in an atheist world?' It is a meaningless question. A communist atheist, and an objectivist atheist, Stefan Molynuex and I all would have different perspectives on 'good'

The question is a function of your frame of good coming from the version of God you believe in, and not understanding that it could come from anywhere else.

We're all atheists with respect to the greek pantheon. We both agree on the atheist position with respect to every religion save one.

The question is no more meaningful than a Hindu asking what is non-Hindu good...trying to lump UBL, GWB, Mao, the last pope, this pope, you and I into a common perspective on good because we are all are 'not Hindu' What we each don't believe together does not matter. It is the different things we do believe that does.

What atheists don't believe (in the supernatural) is much less relevant than what they do. And atheists don't believe in God for all sorts of different reasons. Many of which are quite bad.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 6:35 PM  

Tom wrote:"What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways?"

Human well being. Truth. Empathy

Justify any one of these from an Atheist starting point, with universal principles and not mere emotions.
Oh, and no importing Christian concepts of good, without justifying them from Atheist principles.

Blogger Brad Matthews December 22, 2017 6:39 PM  

A fool says in his heart there is no God.

Blogger Cloom Glue December 22, 2017 6:40 PM  

Aeoli wrote:Snidely Whiplash wrote:I just thought I'd flip it back at him. It's odd just how much projection there is here. And what amateurish rhetorical technique.

On the contrary, he's quite good. An enlightened messenger of Lucifer, if I'm not mistaken. I'm tempted to step in because he's too smart to trigger the moderators, and I don't think you guys are equipped for a deceiver of his caliber.


We could lighten the mood by adding a "rename God's Crimson" sub-plot to this thread.

I think Dei is related to Deus, God, and in fact is the possessive tense of God, thus: God's.

CrimsonDei = CrimsonGod's

has subconsciously denied his atheist faith because he knows he is wrong.

Blogger Brad Matthews December 22, 2017 6:41 PM  

You are going to regret that last sentence.

Anonymous CrimsonDei December 22, 2017 6:41 PM  

"What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways?"

Most of the things that are good in the world of a Christianity, Islam and Judaism. The difference is, the atheists and agnostic knows these simple truths without having to be told my an imaginary father figure who threatens death for non compliance.

Anonymous Rather, Not December 22, 2017 6:42 PM  

@123, you don't believe Stefan Molyneux understands morality or responsibility, and assert he is a nihilist?

Blogger Brad Matthews December 22, 2017 6:43 PM  

And will fail spectacularly as they are intricately related.

Anonymous Kreator December 22, 2017 6:46 PM  

@CrimsonDei

Address my question to you and subsequently, justify Snidely Wideplash's 127th comment before continuing, as per rules of this blog.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 22, 2017 6:49 PM  

Rather, Not wrote:The question is a function of your frame of good coming from the version of God you believe in, and not understanding that it could come from anywhere else.
Bullshit. It comes from the inability of Atheists to justify the concept of goodness without either sneaking in Christian (or Hindu, or Jewish) concepts of goodness, or using their own personal emotions as the basis for what is good and bad.

Anonymous SAK December 22, 2017 7:00 PM  

He's doing that to trigger the anterior cingulate cortex's error-checking function. It's an intentional distraction.

Do errors that distract help rhetorical blows to land? Why?

Is there a term, preferably Google-able, for this technique?

Blogger SirHamster December 22, 2017 7:03 PM  

CrimsonDei wrote:"What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways?"

Most of the things that are good in the world of a Christianity, Islam and Judaism. The difference is, the atheists and agnostic knows these simple truths without having to be told my an imaginary father figure who threatens death for non compliance.


Note the complete inability to describe good without reference to theistic frameworks.

Moral parasites gonna parasite.

Blogger Aeoli December 22, 2017 7:12 PM  

Is there a term, preferably Google-able, for this technique?

Violatoon of expectation amygdala hack/hijack.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy December 22, 2017 7:15 PM  

SAK wrote:Do errors that distract help rhetorical blows to land? Why?
Is there a term, preferably Google-able, for this technique?

“hairy arms” (or “hairy arms for dummies”)?

If you want a new one, “sperg bait” would work.

Anonymous Rather, Not December 22, 2017 7:24 PM  

@135,

I am neither an objectivist or communist, but both have a fairly well developed metaphysics and epistemologies. Where did both marx and rand 'sneak' (your word) in theistic concepts for good?

Not where are they wrong, where did those two very different constructs leading to atheism sneak in theism?

Anonymous SAK December 22, 2017 7:24 PM  

Thank you, Aeoli.

It looks like it is from The Anonymous Conservative, or he at least covers it heavily (he dominates the above the fold, or should I say non-scroll, search results). I have only just started looking at his blog very recently, but it is looking more and more like it will be worth going deeper into his theories.

Anonymous SAK December 22, 2017 7:34 PM  

Having started as a Catholic...there is a possibility of a round trip. Jordan Peterson's Biblical Series is very interesting in terms of exploring the multilayered depths of beliefs I once held, but did not fully understand.

If you want a Catholic philosopher that will cover arguments for God in some depth then you could check out Dr. Edward Feser. I would not be surprised if you already knew his work, and it sounds like you are enjoying coming at this less through philosophy and logic, but more through, most commendably, swimming into the depth of mystery and wisdom through the Bible, but I just wanted to point him out as someone you might enjoy reading.

Anonymous Jack December 22, 2017 7:36 PM  

There is also a correlation between atheism and daddy issues. E. Michael Jones has been doing some podcasts about the "new atheists" recently, and mentioned this. Nietzsche, for example, was raised by women after his father died when he was young, and so "There is no dad" became "There is no God." Freud apparently had daddy issues of his own. God is, of course, the Father, and if you hate your dad or don't respect him, it can be an impediment to faith.

I would love to read Vox's take on Nietzsche in terms of the socio-sexual hierarchy.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab December 22, 2017 8:00 PM  

Every atheist but one I knew was angry at daddy or didn't want to be told what to do. You're not the boss of me type attitude towards God.

Blogger Robert Browning December 22, 2017 8:35 PM  


Snidely Whiplash-----Christ was not accepted as the Jew messiah because he did not grant Gods dominion over the non-Jew. The Jews rejected Christ because Christ did not believe in Jew supremacy over the non-Jew. Moshiach, the true Jew messiah will enslave the world for the benefit of the Jews.

Blogger Cato December 22, 2017 9:03 PM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:If Kraut & Tea is representative of the skeptics’ offensive capabilities, then yeah, any serious alt right campaign will take them down quickly. The man is incapable of forming a serious argument on these subjects.

I would say Kraut was fairly low hanging

I mean lets do a quick run down:

Thunderfoot: Atheist tends to make repetative arguments made some good videos on Creationism - but can be a sophist- refused to debate or support Kraut and said so in a recent video comes across as arrogant

Sargon of Akkad: ALOT smarter than Kraut don't think he is an Atheist, anti SJW but claims to be a libertarian I do actually subscribe to him.

Armored Skeptic: Is going native in my opinion (becoming sympathetic to SJWs) wayy too centrist has had too many 'nice conversions' with people like Francesca Ramsey

Amazing Atheist/TJ Kirk: Does not talk about God much anymore...has delusions of Grandeur where he declared himself the destroyer and the toilet paper of the world.


There are a few others who are better but Ill leave the list as this for the moment.


Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 22, 2017 9:25 PM  

I told you. They don't want to submit.

Anonymous Killua December 22, 2017 10:03 PM  

If there is no God, how come scientist have not been able to create life from non-life?

Think about it. According to the materialistic model, abiogenesis happened completely randomly. There was some kind of soup with aminoacids. And because of completely random processes, a self replicating molecule (which must have been ridiculously ocmplex) arised by itself.

If such a molecule can arise in a completely random way, then it should be very easy for scientist to actually create such a molecule from aminoacids in the lab. And yet this has not been done.

Abiogenesis is, by all means, statistically impossible. That is one good reason t believe in God.

Blogger Nate73 December 22, 2017 10:48 PM  

@146: Your information is inaccurate, Armoured Skeptic denounced FR as a liar and hypocrite 5 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJanCTIhDJ0

Anonymous FP December 22, 2017 10:55 PM  

Oh the sperganity.

Mr. Metokur's history lesson on the K&T drama:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jpi4ymzvyo

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 22, 2017 11:08 PM  

James Dixon wrote:"There are more things in heaven and earth", Mr. Rational, "than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I'm not talking philosophy.  I'm talking measured physical realities that your Narrative has to deny because they debunk essential parts of it.  If you think only the left has a manufactured Narrative which serves the elites, you're dreaming.  The propaganda liars are working both sides, and you have to be a fool not to know it.

Jack Amok wrote:Damn right, which is why we hate Gaia-worshipping Global Warmingmongers so much.
Speaking of Narratives, what's the number you take for the death toll of Chernobyl:  45/6, or 800,000-plus?

The first number is the verified fatalities from acute radiation sickness and related illnesses among on-site workers, plus the fatal thyroid cancers in the nearby downwinders.  The second is the claim derived from the (known grossly-bogus) Linear No Threshold model of health damage from radiation calculated in the Ukraine, Russia and Europe.  They are incommensurable by more than 4 orders of magnitude and you will find people claiming both.  Which do you believe?  Why?

If you actually seek out data on e.g. the changing power and spectrum of downwelling surface IR vs. the power and spectrum of high-altitude escaping IR, you may join the 'Warmingmongers".  This is why I doubt you will even look at such data.  It will threaten your relations with your co-ideologues who won't look at data, and possibly have you out-grouped.  (Sound ominous?  It's what we condemn the left for doing to the insufficiently pure all the time.  Guess what, you're doing it too.)

The real irony is that the solution has been within our grasp all the time... but we allowed the left to gain control of the scientific narrative on radiation and make nuclear power expensive vastly out of proportion to any harm it could do.  We could have almost eliminated net carbon emissions by "burning" actinides instead of fossil carbon, and also cleaned up the air almost effortlessly.  But we allowed fossil-fuel interests to use "environmental" front groups to hamstring the nuclear industry, and the rest is history.  Literally millions are dead as a consequence.

@99  We haven't watched a lifeless but wet and chemically active planet for a billion years yet.  Do please conduct the experiment before pronouncing the results, and ponder the Miller-Urey outcome.

@101  I have no use for CrimsonDei.  He's (at least mostly) a troll, though he has bits of truth.

LurkingPuppy wrote:The Roman Catholic Church was guaranteed from the beginning to become evil
I have had no specific involvement with the church of Rome.  Ironically, the only thing I knew in detail about the RCC is the bit about transubstantiation that I had to study for chatechism.  I have no further interest.

Humanity needs to find a way to reduce atmospheric CO2 levels ASAP, before the next glaciation starts and spikes them through the roof.
Cold water holds CO2 better than warm water.  A glaciation would crater ocean temperatures and sink lots of CO2 in deep waters for millennia.  However, the rapidly increasing oceanic heat content says we're going the other way, in a huge hurry.

So funny that NOBODY here is willing to discuss that oceanic heat content and what it truly means.  It is as much of a Hatefact as Human Biological Diversity is to equalitards.

I take my reality straight, no chaser.  Bring it.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 22, 2017 11:15 PM  

((( bob kek mando ))) - ( the Original Militant Apathist ) wrote:not even close. refusing to pay for abortions says nothing about requiring the state to pay for single mothers.
The "pro-lifers" refused to cut off the single mothers from welfare increases to avoid "promoting abortions", you cocksucker.  They deliberately left the Africans on the public tit to "save babies".

all those Fed and State level programs to provide "aid" to single mothers comes straight from the Cultural Marxists and the Orthodox Marxists before them
And your Christard Useful Idiots sided with them, because Abortion.

We could and WOULD have beat them, except for you.

Dire Badger wrote:Most Atheists believe A).
The Supreme Dark Lord says "most people are idiots."  Get with it.

SirHamster wrote:Well being? Such as kicking out crutches from cripples?
Censorship is forbidding adults from having steak because a baby can't eat it.

Babies should not be our standard of humanity.

Dire Badger wrote:When you gun down a boat full of starving africans begging for food because you know full well that some of those boats are carrying armed men and explosive devices, you know you are committing an evil act.
No, the opposite.  I know I am making the dead suffer the consequences of their society's product, while preventing them from visiting those consequences upon my own family, society and race.  It's a virtuous act.  I did not create the outcome-set forced by those receiving the bullets; they did.  They should have stayed home, but did not.

Atheists do not understand morality, and they do not understand responsibility.
You.  Are.  Clueless.

@140  Very pertinent point.  All Christians should have to read Rand and say where she was wrong.

@147  There has to be something compelling to submit to.

@148  Miller-Urey experiment, you nitwit.

Anonymous Rocklea December 22, 2017 11:24 PM  

"So funny that NOBODY here is willing to discuss that oceanic heat content and what it truly means."

We haven't watched a lively wet, and chemically active planet for a billion years yet. Do please conduct the experiment before pronouncing the results.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 22, 2017 11:26 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:There has to be something compelling to submit to.



What can be more compelling than your pride?

Anonymous Killua December 22, 2017 11:34 PM  

@152 "Miller-Urey experiment, you nitwit."

Did life came out of it?

Blogger Wynn Lloyd December 23, 2017 12:29 AM  

Oh wow did you hit the nail on the head. That's a common trait of every atheist I've ever known.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 23, 2017 2:17 AM  

Well the three men I admire most, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, took the last train to the Coast.

And I hate you people who caused it and delight in pissing on it.

If you think that I'm going to be a milquetoast enemy who turns the other cheek and lets you get away with your depravity, you are dead wrong.

I will not allow you to continue to corrupt my sons and daughters anymore. I'm done.

The fight is on.

I am fully committed to bury you for what you have attempted to do against me and my people.

My mission is to point out your inherent evil and recruit as many as possible, and in the end, to crush you like grapes.

Without mercy.

You yourselves admit the pointlessness of your erasure.

Let's make it happen.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 23, 2017 2:22 AM  

Very pertinent point. All Christians should have to read Rand and say where she was wrong.

How? First Rand would have to make an actual argument. Rand doesn't argue. She makes emotional appeals and bald assertions and reasons from the premise "Ayn Rand is the pinnacle of human moral and intellectual development, therefore...."

Anonymous Svensons December 23, 2017 2:47 AM  

If you understand that Religion is a crutch for most people, then it follows that life simply sucks for most. Which is true. Not everyone can revel in his intelligence, some skill, good looks, high status, big dick, wit or the like.

Most people are average, don't have any skills, and have to live long lives in mediocrity. Christ died when he was 33; I most likely have to live another 40 years or so before I die. I'd gladly die for my faith and be done with this dire existence; after all, you are to hate your life.

To quote from the Imitatio: "Our life upon the earth is verily wretchedness."

As Hallpike points out in Do We Need God to be Good, life for most people is a vale of tears, and I appreciated his contempt he had for some Biritsh humanist moron he quotes (who fantasizes about what high-class and high-performing job someone could or should pursue; as if most people had the talent and IQ to become violinists, mathematicians and whatnot! Idiots!)

And Hallpike also makes the _very_ important point -- few Christians understand this -- that during most of history (as he writes: before Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny), most people weren't even sure if they were getting into heaven.

Which is exactly the point. To quote Don Nicolas:

"The imbecile does not discover the radical misery of our condition except when he is sick, poor, or old."

"Christianity is an effrontery which we should not disguise as kindness."

But also: "Believe in God, trust in Christ, look with suspicion."

This is why I think VD's constant whining about people not having enough kids is not just stupid, it's downright evil. As I already wrote, I'm genetic scum, which is just an objective fact like my height, not self-pity. I wouldn't want to have myself as father.

While my genes are already bad enough, the times during which I live are almost worse. If I could have at least chosen a timeframe for my existence, I would have wanted to live during the millennial kingdom of Christ, which existed from Constantine to the fall of Constantinople; but actually, I would narrow it down to the times between Constantine and Dante, which, as Gomez Davila rightly understood, were golden times.

Most people shouldn't have kids. As Gomez Davila aptly puts it:

"Beneficiaries of slaves never are supporters of birth control."

"Population growth disquiets the demographer only when he fears that it will impede economic progress or make it harder to feed the masses.
But that man needs solitude, that human proliferation produces cruel societies, that distance is required between men so that the spirit might breathe, does not interest him.
The quality of a man does not matter to him."

Quality is important, not quantity. It's pretty cheap to have an IQ of 150, a father who was an academic, with a stable upbringing, and usher the imbeciles on to breed because muh Europe is dying.

There are smart Christians who understand that eugenics and Christianity are not mutually exclusive, especially since some form of birth control was practiced during Christendom anyway. The retards died childless, as it should be. Marriage was a requirement. Abortion is murder, sterilization is not; it's best not to marry anyway, and lust is evil (see Augustine on Marriage and Widowhood).

Newsflash: Europe will die if the best and brightest don't have kids (as it was in the past: Galton was already aware of the fact that the genetic quality of his people was diminishing); the great majority of Europeans are idiots with crappy genes, like everywhere else; the educated Europeans who are fluent in Ancient Greek and Latin, who can read and cite poetry, play a classical instrument or are able to interpret a classical painting are those who have to have children, they are the ones who keep the fire of civilization alive.

Not scum like myself.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 23, 2017 2:54 AM  

Svensons, WTF? C'mon man, pick your head up!

Blogger Đồ gia dụng December 23, 2017 4:19 AM  

chuyển văn phòng trọn gói
sửa khoá tủ văn phòng
bọc da ghế văn phòng

hỏng pittong ghế xoay văn phòng

thay lưng ghế văn phòng

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 23, 2017 4:27 AM  

I'm had a tumultuous relationship with religion. It started when I accused God of negligence due to my parents divorce. I felt pretty bad afterwards. Then there's the churches and denominations: Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, Methodist and Jehovah Witnesses. Of them all, the JW were the kindest. But when a girl in the church was raped, and the church decided she should forgive, and let the man get away with - well, I'm surprised he wasn't murdered. I watched as her life spun into deep depression. After that I went to University and somehow just walked away from the faith.

Over time I became a strong Atheist.

The reason why Atheists attack Theists is because it feels good. Which is extremely sickening. I know, because I did. What changed in me? The first thing that happened was I was going through the motions at a Buddhist Temple, I may have mentioned my father-in-law is Buddhist priest? Anyway, I couldn't help my smug self and just had to say something smug. Being family I justified it as "being honest". So, there we were in the family Temple, I say matter-of-factly: 'I like Buddhism, but 'to be honest' (barf) I have absolutely no belief in any of this stuff. Nothing."
His reply?



He looked at me deep in the eyes. He wanted to make sure I took his words very seriously. It was unusual, but you know the feeling when you experience such. Then eh said with a smile: "You're probably right".


That was the first time, that I can recall anyway, of really getting a good mouthful of crow. Later when a friend of mine was struggling with AN, due to horrific child abuse, I strongly encouraged her to rejoin her church. She did and it was of great help to her. That somewhat helped me too. Over time I've come to wish I could return to the faith. For now, I'm a cultural Christian.

Blogger Blastman December 23, 2017 6:48 AM  

CrimsonDei wrote:
"What is "good" in an atheist world, anyways?"

Most of the things that are good in the world of a Christianity, Islam and Judaism. The difference is, the atheists and agnostic knows these simple truths without having to be told my an imaginary father figure who threatens death for non compliance.


True, there are simple truths that all men know -- but only because humans have a metaphysical soul with God's basic moral laws written on it.

One of the aspects of Christian theology/philosophy is that God's moral law (the natural law) is written on the hearts of men -- this means the 10 Commandments. These laws are common to all men and all cultures. Even primitive pagan and non-religious people know these basics of morality -- that stealing, murder, adultery, lying …etc. … are all wrong. Humans are born with this conscience, and as we grow we become naturally aware the natural law as our reason and awareness develops.

Many other religions outside Christianity espouse some sort of moral rules, like the Golden Rule, or, treat others as you would have them treat you. But that is not what we find written on the hearts of men. What we do find is the universal moral truths written on man's heart are one and the same as the 10 Commandments as delivered to Moses by God as told in scriptures and espoused by Christianity.

A universal morality written on the hearts of man is not possible without a God and a rational metaphysical soul. And the first of the 10 Commandments is : I am the Lord thy God -- Thou shalt have no other gods before me. So even the idea of God is written in our hearts. Sin has clouded man's view of the natural law, and in many cases man tries to turn his reason away from these laws by rationalizations -- but they are still there. Violation of these laws written on our conscience will cause one to have guilty feelings, and no amount of rationalizing will make this go away completely.

How can an atheist really think there is a morality in the sense of … "thou shall not" … if he follows the logical conclusion that atheism leads to materialism. Morality would be just an illusion -- a preference or taste, like what flavor of ice cream you like.

If man did not have this God created metaphysical soul, then he would just be a chemical reaction. That man is just a chemical reaction has to be the logical conclusion of the atheist and his materialism. If people are just a big chemical reaction subject to their environment, how can one say to a chemical reaction that it ought not to do something? That would be no different from a chemist saying to some chemicals in a beaker that the reaction ought not to happen, or for the chemist to claim that the chemical reaction is morally wrong in doing what it was doing. Yet -- that is the absurd position the atheist is in.

If you don't live for God, or fear of God or some vision of an afterlife, then what do you live for? You end up living for purely material things and gain. Have as much fun and enjoyment with your limited time here. Do things without regard for consequences in afterlife.

Blogger Duke Norfolk December 23, 2017 6:56 AM  

Rather, Not wrote:More and more...I think they may be even more right than I. I still don't believe in God, but it is hard to look at the world and not believe in supernatural evil.

You took the words out of my mouth; your whole comment.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 23, 2017 8:39 AM  

Well, it looks like this story has played out. CrimsonDei's target (again, unless my mind reading is off) was to drive a wedge between guys like Mr. Rational and the Alt-West. The operating principle is to activate the bullying/disgust response to nonconformity in belief, which alienates the allied factions from each other.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 23, 2017 8:51 AM  

It's a very simple tactic, once it's pointed out to you. E.g. Let's say SJWs and Berniebros are working together on a pro-immigration thing. We don't like that, so we want to break them up. They agree on socialism, but they disagree on free speech.

So you go into one of their online spaces and provoke the SJWs (easy) by accusing them of violent crimes against Nazi free speech. Within the SJW's moral universe, this is not a crime, but it is a crime within the Berniebro's universe. A couple of Berniebros get triggered and chime in, saying "we should disagree openly and honestly". This provokes the disgust response in the SJWs, who are trying to expel a foreign object from the body, and the group bullying instinct kicks in.

And that's how you win. Throw in a "henlo" or two for extra triggering.

Anonymous Albionic American December 23, 2017 9:52 AM  

Christianity makes no sense even if you accept its assumptions.

Namely, what would keep Vox from rebelling against God when he gets to heaven and becoming the next Satan? Perhaps he drew the short straw in the next stage of Gods' plan.

The Christian world view offers no explanation for why this can't happen, because it can't explain how the original Satan could rebel.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 23, 2017 10:23 AM  

Rocklea wrote:We haven't watched a lively wet, and chemically active planet for a billion years yet. Do please conduct the experiment before pronouncing the results.
We've watched flasks full of inorganics generate amino acids and nucleotides given nothing more than negentropy (electric sparks or UV).  We've watched frozen solutions of ammonium cyanide do the same in mere decades.  This provides all the building blocks for abiogenesis.  Given that these things happen on such a short time scale, declaring that it can go no further is simply not a tenable position.

The response is almost always "I didn't come from no monkey", which is feelz-based.  The irony that such emotional denial is monkey behavior isn't lost on me.

The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey wrote:What can be more compelling than your pride?
The laws of physics?  I didn't invent them, I take no pride in them.  I have to comply with them in order to get physics-based stuff to work as I want it to, so I take them as they are:  I "submit" to them.

Killua wrote:Did life came out of it?
Most if not all of the necessary molecules did.  There wasn't enough room and time to form life, but a planet has vast amounts of both.

Aeoli Pera wrote:Well, it looks like this story has played out.
He had precious little to do with it.  I was going to state my case in response to "crutches" anyway.  Not because I'm expecting to convert anyone (yeah, right) but because by making a case I'm hoping for a little forbearance on that particular issue.  Rather than having IT continue to be the wedge it is, I want to keep us from making more own goals like the failure of welfare reform to at least stop promoting dysgenic breeding.  "Pro-life" has wrongfooted us time and time again.

Maybe wrongfooted is the wrong word.  Betrayed is probably the right one.

Blogger Aeoli December 23, 2017 10:34 AM  

May I just say I totally fuckin called it with the Luciferian thing?

Namely, what would keep Vox from rebelling against God when he gets to heaven and becoming the next Satan? Perhaps he drew the short straw in the next stage of Gods' plan.

Blogger Cloom Glue December 23, 2017 10:53 AM  

Yes, Luciferian, and I had previously read your link to that paper on Obama's speaking strategy, and your other examples. It is an interesting topic. I am on guard against that junk, when I feel it, but I never understood the precise science of it, before.

Anonymous Uncle John's Band December 23, 2017 10:54 AM  

@ 166. Aeoli Pera

Pretty much bang on. Formulaic, rhetoric-only tactics that work in the average forum tend to fall flat when the audience is far more intelligent than the putative rhetorician. The lack of substantive engagement is embarrassingly obvious. Exposing hypocrisy is the tonic for a formidable opponent, but calmly laying out what he is doing is just as effective when the troll is too limited cognitively to make tactical adjustments.

Anonymous roadrage December 23, 2017 12:02 PM  

Snidely.
Dear boy.
You need help, son.
But that's okay.
We all do.

Blogger S1AL December 23, 2017 12:17 PM  

The Miller-Urey experiment used the incorrect composition. That was demonstrated more than a decade ago.

Blogger Nate73 December 23, 2017 1:34 PM  

@170: What is the link about Obama's rhetorical devices? That sounds interesting, since people talk mostly about Trump and his rhetorical devices now.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 23, 2017 2:33 PM  

@roadrage, Nope. I do this all by myself. Unless you consider alcohol to be help. Then I have lots of help.

Blogger Cloom Glue December 23, 2017 3:13 PM  

Nate73 wrote:@170: What is the link about Obama's rhetorical devices? That sounds interesting, since people talk mostly about Trump and his rhetorical devices now.

I started here:

https://aeolipera.wordpress.com/2017/11/11/amygdala-hijack-in-dilbert/

and then eventually I must have followed a link to here:
https://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/the-amygdala-hijack-in-action-a-video-example/

and now I see the Obama document (linked from the comments):
http://www.pennypresslv.com/Obama's_Use_of_Hidden_Hypnosis_techniques_in_His_Speeches.pdf

I thought it was at aeolipera.wordpress.com but I cannot find it there. Anyway, I have the document name and came up with a working pdf link, above.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 23, 2017 7:29 PM  

@173  There are plenty of sources of negentropy, reducing environments and raw chemical energy on a wet, volcanically-active planet.  Study "black smokers" sometime, and that's just one example.

Anonymous Rocklea December 23, 2017 7:35 PM  

Aeoli wrote:
"Well, it looks like this story has played out. CrimsonDei's target (again, unless my mind reading is off) was to drive a wedge between guys like Mr. Rational and the Alt-West. The operating principle is to activate the bullying/disgust response to nonconformity in belief, which alienates the allied factions from each other."

Perhaps you're right, but do you really think Mr Rational needs any help in that regard? He has an unconscious streak a mile wide, as evidenced in his reply to my comment. He failed to parse my pointing out that given the short passage of time in which we have observed ocean temperatures, one must have an enormous amount of FAITH to come to any conclusions on the subject.

I even used his own words slightly modified. I doubt my meaning could have been clearer, yet he chose to double down on an experiment, that shows that belief in abiogenesis also requires an enormous amount of FAITH. So I speak to his unconscious, and he hears not.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 23, 2017 10:40 PM  

Rocklea wrote:He failed to parse my pointing out that given the short passage of time in which we have observed ocean temperatures
We are observing ocean temperatures SOARING when denialists are claiming COOLING, and you DO NOT SEE THE BLATANT CONTRADICTION?!

one must have an enormous amount of FAITH to come to any conclusions on the subject.
True.  One must have enormous FAITH opposite blatant TRUTH.  This makes you EVIL.

Anonymous Rocklea December 23, 2017 11:25 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:
This makes you EVIL.

Well, there you go. And there are more of us everyday. Let's assume you are right and AGW is real. You have failed to convince. Legislative measures will fail, propaganda has failed, perhaps dysgenics will succeed. Fortunately for you, the impending collapse of western civilisation, should bring about an enormous reduction in human CO2 emissions. Moar Immigration. Then the equilibrium you so fervently desire shall come to pass.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 24, 2017 9:52 AM  

Rocklea wrote:Let's assume you are right and AGW is real. You have failed to convince.
I'm a builder, not a salesman.  YOU have listened to propagandists instead of doing your own due dilligence.

Legislative measures will fail, propaganda has failed, perhaps dysgenics will succeed.
Oh, humbug.  We could have legislated the problem away decades ago.  Instead, the same interests behind the propaganda practically legislated the solution away.

China's neither blinded by propaganda nor stupid.  Know what Beijing is doing about their winter pollution problem... and also the carbon problem?  Swimming-pool reactors for district heating.  400 megawatts of emissions-free heat that can be built in just a few years.

Fortunately for you, the impending collapse of western civilisation, should bring about an enormous reduction in human CO2 emissions. Moar Immigration. Then the equilibrium you so fervently desire shall come to pass.
After reading my writing for so long, why are you so stupid as to ascribe lefty "noble savages in a state of nature" ideas to me?

It's precisely the collapse of civilization that I'm hoping to avoid.  There were a number of civilizations in pre-Columbian southern N. America and Central America.  They appear to have fallen when the climate changed on them.  I'm saying "DON'T GO THERE!" but you won't listen.

Anonymous Rocklea December 24, 2017 10:31 AM  

"It's precisely the collapse of civilization that I'm hoping to avoid."

Something we agree on, so there is that. Yes climate has brought down civilisations. Cold climate.

You're smart Mr. Rational. I'd wager you could name every single tree in the non existent forest.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 24, 2017 1:41 PM  

Rocklea wrote:Yes climate has brought down civilisations. Cold climate.
Hot climate.  Drought.  Or have you already forgotten the Dustbowl, and California on fire right now?  Another degree or two will make the Indian monsoons fall offshore.  That's 1.3 billion starving right there (plus Bangladesh and Pakistan, which nobody will miss), and bye-bye civilization such as it is in the region.  The same would happen around the world, including to us.

Not that I think street-shitters deserve any sacrifice from us, but that's just it:  we don't have to sacrifice anything to fix this problem.  We just do what China is doing to clean up its air, and what France did to take its electric grid off of OPEC oil:  go nuclear.  Getting rid of a body of regulation and its enabling laws would free up the nuclear industry and make it cheaper than coal again.  Uranium is extremely cheap.  So are steel and concrete.  The regulators and lawyers and the masses of paperwork they demand are where the money goes.  Get rid of 90% of them and you solve the problem.

Blogger James Dixon December 27, 2017 9:57 AM  

> Because the audience here is mostly white people, the winning move (if you play) is to demonstrate that CrimsonDei is a hypocrite.

Well, I was trying to demonstrate that he was a liar. Which appears to have largely been established while I was traveling over the weekend.

> Some of us, the warriors, forsake individual salvation to allow others to have that chance.

There was a made for TV movie you might like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atigf4tS0hA

> It is unfalsifiable, therefore 'proof' is not assertible.

Well, duh. :)

> It comes from the inability of Atheists to justify the concept of goodness

Good for an atheist is whatever the strongest wants. Might makes right. That's what it always comes down to.

> I'm talking measured physical realities that your Narrative has to deny because they debunk essential parts of it.

You should know me better than that by now, Mr. Rational.

> So funny that NOBODY here is willing to discuss that oceanic heat content and what it truly means.

I have no real idea what it means, yet. But this may interest you:

https://climatechangedispatch.com/the-entire-atlantic-ocean-is-cooling-contrary-to-media-reports/

I do try to pay attention to both sides of the scientific arguments you know.

I expect we'll figure it out eventually. But if the global warming folks are actually right, it's far too late for their proposed solutions to work.

> All Christians should have to read Rand and say where she was wrong.

She starts by rejecting Christianity. She never justifies her rejection, so there's nothing to argue against. She does justify her rejection of altruism, but does so by creating a straw man first.

> We are observing ocean temperatures SOARING when denialists are claiming COOLING, and you DO NOT SEE THE BLATANT CONTRADICTION?!

Well, I suppose my above link could be incorrect or even lying. But then I know Mann and company were.

> YOU have listened to propagandists instead of doing your own due dilligence.

There are literally no non-propagandists involved in this affair. So the only option is to read both sides and then see which one makes the most sense to you. I've done that. I'll keep doing that.

And you keep acting like the folks here don't support nuclear power. Most of us do.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 27, 2017 2:37 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> So funny that NOBODY here is willing to discuss that oceanic heat content and what it truly means.

I have no real idea what it means, yet. But this may interest you:

https://climatechangedispatch.com/the-entire-atlantic-ocean-is-cooling-contrary-to-media-reports/

I do try to pay attention to both sides of the scientific arguments you know.

Funny, you're not actually reading what your own source says... or aren't bright enough to understand it, or are using the fallacy of ambiguity to lie about it.  (I think your source is #3 and you are #2.)  Here's the money quote in the pic caption:

Figure 1. Sea Surface Temperature (SST) anomaly maps that illustrate recent Atlantic Ocean cooling.

Surface temperature is not the total heat quantity, even in the Atlantic.  Fallacy of ambiguity confirmed, a half-truth is a whole lie.

It's not hard to understand how surface temperatures can go down when heat content is going up:  heat is being mixed into lower layers and cooler water is coming to the surface.  How?  I dunno, there's thermohaline effects when hot surface water gets concentrated in salt and sinks when it cools off a bit, and there are big wind-driven effects like the trade winds piling up hot sea water near the Phillipines.  That's for oceanographers to puzzle out.

But this is the same kind of lying-by-ambiguity that the climate denialists do when they talk about sea surface ice.  "Oh, on average it's about the same.  Less at the north pole but more in Antarctica."  Never mind that the former is the only ice in the arctic ocean, while the latter comes from increased loss of glacial ice and breakup of ice shelves like the Larsen shelf.

And while we're at it....

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/sea-ice-extent-sinks-to-record-lows-at-both-poles/

you keep acting like the folks here don't support nuclear power. Most of us do.
Have you managed to stop any shutdowns?  Have you managed to block regulations that add costs without benefits?  Have you even written pro-nuclear editorials and letters to your local news outlets?  Done a flash-mob action at the local Greenpiss meeting to let them know that THEY are trashing the environment?  Whoops, you can't say that because you've bought the propaganda that fossil fuels have no long-term effect on it.  You're unarmed in a battle of both facts AND wits.

Blogger James Dixon December 27, 2017 5:53 PM  

> Surface temperature is not the total heat quantity, even in the Atlantic.

So provide a refuting link from a trustworthy source. Good luck finding one.

> Have you managed to stop any shutdowns? Have you managed to block regulations that add costs without benefits?

Have you? You seem to be more connected than I am.

> Have you even written pro-nuclear editorials and letters to your local news outlets?

My only local news outlet is a newspaper for a town of roughly 40K located 20 some miles away. They don't seem to have a lot of interest in such editorials, either pro or con.

> Done a flash-mob action at the local Greenpiss meeting to let them know that THEY are trashing the environment?

Greenpeace doesn't meet in my area. And it's hard to do a flash mob when the entire population of your town is around 2K.

> Whoops, you can't say that because you've bought the propaganda that fossil fuels have no long-term effect on it.

Define "long term". 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? 1 million years? 10 million years?

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 27, 2017 7:34 PM  

James Dixon wrote:So provide a refuting link from a trustworthy source. Good luck finding one.
https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/

Have you? You seem to be more connected than I am.
I write a lot.  I have tried to convert local groups, but they seem as afraid of one N-word as the more infamous one.

James Dixon wrote:Define "long term". 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years?
Toward the high end of that.  We're seeing CFCs peak and start to slide downward, but we've produced CO2 in quantities many orders of magnitude larger and the ultimate balancing mechanism, weathering, just doesn't work on human time scales.

The wildcard in all of this is methane.  It's about 120 times as powerful a heat-trap as CO2, and there are vast quantities buried beneath permafrost and in sea-bed clathrates.  Warm things up enough to start releasing them in quantity and it will drive a positive-feedback loop until they're all gone.  Worst of all, the removal mechanism (oxidation by hydroxyl radicals) might be overwhelmed so that the rate of removal stays more or less where it is now rather than increasing with concentration.

Having the climate turned upside-down and every mechanism for resetting it busied out for a duration equivalent to the construction of the Great Pyramid to today... that is not a world I want to give to my children and grandchildren.

Blogger James Dixon December 28, 2017 11:01 AM  

> https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/

Government agencies have conclusively demonstrated that they are not a trustworthy source. Nonetheless, I'll take a look at it when I have time. This post will have scrolled by then, so I won't post back here.

> The wildcard in all of this is methane.

Agreed.

> Having the climate turned upside-down and every mechanism for resetting it busied out for a duration equivalent to the construction of the Great Pyramid to today... that is not a world I want to give to my children and grandchildren.

Yet by the claims of the people you believe, that's what we're going to get. If their figures are to be believed it was too late to change things almost 20 years ago. Especially as any emission cuts we make are going to be dwarfed by the emissions from India, China, and possibly Africa (if the population predictions pan out, which I don't expect).

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 28, 2017 9:28 PM  

James Dixon wrote:Government agencies have conclusively demonstrated that they are not a trustworthy source.
WTF is wrong with you?  This isn't just our government, this is every government with an interest in the matter including the Russians and Saudis who make $trillions from hydrocarbon sales and would LOVE to debunk the idea of ACC.

Some things, like ocean ice coverage, are too easily confirmed from multiple different sources of satellite imagery to even try faking.

Yet by the claims of the people you believe, that's what we're going to get. If their figures are to be believed it was too late to change things almost 20 years ago.
Remember, there's already been 1°C of temperature rise since the pre-industrial.  What isn't too late is to escape is everything that isn't already "baked in", and even some of that might be avoidable if we can get emissions down below natural removals or, with a technological miracle, find a way to make artificial removals economic.  (I'm personally working on this.)

Especially as any emission cuts we make are going to be dwarfed by the emissions from India, China, and possibly Africa (if the population predictions pan out, which I don't expect).
The massive destruction of Chindia and Africa feature in a scene (already written) in book 3 of my yet-to-be-named trilogy.  I've been busy with patent applications and an embryonic business and marketing plan, so no time for writing lately.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts