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Saturday, December 09, 2017

Mailvox: low morale men

JAG defends MGTOW:
This is why I don't look down my nose at the MGTOW guys. Most of them are MGTOW because women have become so toxic through feminism that they are no longer attractive. Plus, many of these guys have seen their brothers, fathers, uncles, etc., utterly destroyed by the feminist court system that makes the man an indentured servant for the rest of his life after taking everything else away from him all because the woman got bored or some other ridiculous reason.

I realize that this is not a popular opinion around here, but those are my reasons for being sympathetic to the MGTOWs. How could you blame them, really? I know that lack of breeding is the biggest issue many have with them, but they are staunch allies when it comes to the issue of feminism.
How could you blame them? Easily. MGTOW are low morale cowards. From the societal and civilizational perspective they are useless parasites who, by their fecklessness, are helping the barbarians win the civilization war. Sure, they're vastly to be preferred to the feminists, foreigners, globalists, and anti-Christians who are actively waging war against Western civilization, but they are passively refusing to defend it in any way.

How are they any better than the very Western women they excoriate? They are, in fact, observably worse, as both are in it merely for themselves but at least the women may produce the next generation of Western children, even if they will surely raise them in a sub-optimal manner. Neither the feral woman nor the fearful MGTOW is capable of maintaining the civilization whose toys they enjoy.

If we aren't sympathetic to soldiers who run the moment they see the first casualties in their unit, we should not be sympathetic to men who run from women because they saw someone taken down by a toxic woman. The truth is that men often suffer the legal order they deserve, because they tolerate it. Would any Roman patrician have meekly submitted to being made an indentured servant at the whim of his wife and the word of a judge?

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath. That's why Roman law permitted patriarchs to kill those under their authority who crossed them in any way - because they were going to do it anyway and the maintenance of legal order in their society relied upon acknowledging that reality.

But the modern man values his toys more than his honor. That's why no one, including the legal system, respects his possession of either. Men could end the entire divorce machine in 30 days if they chose, but instead, they prefer to live alone as indentured servants or in fear of becoming an indentured servant. I am not saying "wife up those sluts", I am merely saying that living one's life in fear of potentially wifing up a woman who may turn out to be less than entirely faithful and interested in playing the divorce lottery is not worthy of respect or emulation.

A man of the West takes risks. A man of the Wests molds his wife and his children. A man of the West is willing to fight for his honor, his family, and his civilization. Success is not guaranteed. But then, when, in the entire history of Man, has it ever been guaranteed? For millennia, young men of honor have fought and died for what they believe. But for what, if anything, would an MGTOW risk breaking a fingernail?

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309 Comments:

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Blogger Robert What? December 09, 2017 4:51 AM  

Vox, is this your way of saying "man up and marry those sluts"?

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 09, 2017 4:51 AM  

As a man whose first wife was a slut - yes, I knew it, yes I was an idiot - I’d have as much ground as any man to have become MGTOW.

But my experience didn’t put me off marriage, it just put me off marrying sluts. To me that’s the difference between clear thinking, learning from experience, and remaining a fool.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 4:53 AM  

That's pretty awesome. On the other hand, it would seem prudent for one who wishes to marry to eliminate the homewreckers operating with impunity in his jurisdiction first. Collatine did not avenge the rape of Lucrece alone.

Blogger Matthew Funk December 09, 2017 4:54 AM  

The villainy of their act is doubled the moment they attempt to recruit/proselytize. At this moment, they are not merely failing to uphold virtue, they are discouraging those who do.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain December 09, 2017 4:58 AM  

"A man of the West takes risks. A man of the Wests molds his wife and his children. A man of the West is willing to fight for his honor, his family, and his civilization. Success is not guaranteed. But then, when, in the entire history of Man, has it ever been guaranteed? For millennia, young men of honor have fought and died for what they believe."

I was alluding to something like this in a conversation with another guy the other day.

Sure, finding a good woman can seem like a needle-in-a-haystack search, but they're out there. Sure, things could go horribly wrong. And? When your ancestors packed up their belongings to come to America, were the odds not long? Could things not have gone horribly wrong? They often did. When have things been easy and guaranteed?

And newsflash: you're probably damaged by this modern world as well.

Anonymous Mathias December 09, 2017 5:02 AM  

To be fair, many of these never-marrieds have already been through divorce, as the children involved. It's a bit of a head trip to watch your family be destroyed, and your father stripped of all of his dignity, money, and position, in the name of "providing for his children", which was what they were doing before the court system started draining said children's patrimony dry through legal fees. Who would want to go through that again, on the other end? You are right, something needs to be done, and MGTOW is simply running from the problem, but blindly running straight into the divorce trap is no solution either. @3 Koanic is right, get rid of the termites, then start replacing the rotten rafters.

Blogger Retrenched December 09, 2017 5:03 AM  

MGTOWs are like super tight poker players who fold everything but the nuts.

A few get the nuts and win, but most just get blinded out.

Anonymous Rien December 09, 2017 5:13 AM  

MGTOW is just another aspect of r-selection among men.
As society becomes more r-select, men will react by becoming more feminine, less aggressive, and less interested in sex or marriage.

Anonymous Raw Cringe December 09, 2017 5:25 AM  

"Men could end the entire divorce machine in 30 days if they chose[...]"

Your means-end analysis is too ruthless. It is not a failing to abstain from instinctual violence out of Christian charity. Or even out of the post-Christian "charitable" sentiment that remains when the moral floor has been removed from your feet. The Roman patricians are not good role models.

However, knowing you, I'm sure that line was an intentional idiot trap you laid for folks like me to fall into...

But yeah, f*** MGTOWs. It's one thing to be incel, another to be loud and proud about it.

"I have sympathy to this" to JAG clearly means "I can envision, to my satisfaction, the subjectively perceived series of emotional events that would lead to having this attitude". Which is what most people mean by it, but VD is saying that the fact that you can understand the series of emotional events leading to a certain attitude or action, has no moral weight and does not excuse those actions, despite the fact that when you can imagine yourself behaving similarly in similar conditions you will instinctively try to excuse that behavior or attitude... In other words, this sympathy that you feel is an illusion created by your desire to excuse yourself projected onto others perceived as etc...

"oh my gosh RC shut the f*** up" OK sorry I'll be quiet

Anonymous qualitycontrol December 09, 2017 5:29 AM  

I think MGTOW is your reaction to understanding feminism and it's consequences. Eventually most young MGTOW will grow out of it.. and the bitter, old and divorced MGTOW don't really matter. All they do is produce low hanging fruit videos that bash single moms and blue haired feminists.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 5:31 AM  

Vox, is this your way of saying "man up and marry those sluts"?

What part of this was hard to understand?

I am not saying "wife up those sluts"

Do you not bother reading the post before commenting on it? Or are you simply that stupid?

Anonymous Dennis Prager December 09, 2017 5:32 AM  

Statistically, it is better for the economy that men marry and divorce than not marry at all.

As for the men whose lives are destroyed, fuck them - their job was to man up and marry those sluts.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 5:33 AM  

Your means-end analysis is too ruthless. It is not a failing to abstain from instinctual violence out of Christian charity. Or even out of the post-Christian "charitable" sentiment that remains when the moral floor has been removed from your feet. The Roman patricians are not good role models.

MGTOW has nothing to do with Christian charity. There are tens of millions of Western men who are not Christians, and the Roman patricians provide some of the very best pagan role models, particularly when the survival of civilization is at stake.

Blogger Al Goldstein December 09, 2017 5:34 AM  

Its easy for the those who've either never married or have a good marriage to say fuck MGTOWs. But when *your* back is against the wall and there is literally no way out, you too will see why burning it all to the ground is so attractive.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 5:36 AM  

As for the men whose lives are destroyed, fuck them - their job was to man up and marry those sluts.

No, fuck them because they are too submissive and slavish to destroy those who tried to destroy them. They are not men.

Can you even imagine a Spartiate, a Viking, or a Mongol warrior crying that his life was destroyed because someone else gave his wife permission to take half his toys?

Anonymous CoolHand December 09, 2017 5:36 AM  

I understand how they got there, but I also agree with VD that their reaction is one of unmitigated cowardice.

Every man in the history of the world has gotten shit on by some horrible woman at some point in his life.

If they had simply taken their balls and gone home instead of slogging through it, we wouldn't even be here to argue this point.

The future doesn't magically happen all by itself, every generation has to fight and scrape and toil to bring it forth.

MGTOW sidestep this responsibility entirely and then want a gold start for it.

Sorry guys, but covfefe is for closers.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 5:38 AM  

But when *your* back is against the wall and there is literally no way out, you too will see why burning it all to the ground is so attractive.

That's so freaking Gamma it's not even funny. So you're willing to hypothetically burn society and civilization to the ground, but not raise a finger against those who actually harmed you.

Do you not see how that is nothing but cowardly posturing.

Anonymous Robin Williams December 09, 2017 5:41 AM  

Frivorced after 15 years and four wonderful children. Would not change a thing. And I enjoy women far too much to foreswear them.

Men age like wine, women age like milk. Time and I can take on any two..

Anonymous Raw Cringe December 09, 2017 5:45 AM  

if I honestly described how happy I am whenever you respond to my cringey self it would sound really really gay

so...

Thank you for clarifying your meaning, VD. Every day I'm glad with a fresh gladness that you're on our side. Keep up the incredible work as long as your bones hold out, and I pray that God may bless you, your family, and your posterity.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 5:46 AM  

MGTOWs are absolutely cowards for not murdering those who render them incel. That is evolution telling you that your balls don't work.

As long as you're working towards that pyramid of skulls, though, you're fine.

Anonymous Jordi December 09, 2017 5:49 AM  

Fantastic article.

I can respect some very temporary MGTOWing, like a wounded soldier retreating. But then back to Game, and for the one that will get though it, en rotue to Healthy Western Families.

Anonymous Asatru Heathen December 09, 2017 5:56 AM  

MGTOW has nothing to do with Christian charity. There are tens of millions of Western men who are not Christians, and the Roman patricians provide some of the very best pagan role models, particularly when the survival of civilization is at stake.

One of your great strengths as a blogger and an author is your ability to articulate concepts in a way that is accessable to people very different from you. That is a rare skill, and despite what you have written about the difficulties imposed by the IQ gap, you are an excellent communicator.

This comment has given me much to think about. Thank you.

Blogger Ergo December 09, 2017 6:04 AM  

MGTOW, I believe, is a temporary state many men must go through to learn many hard truths about our society and women in particular. Men who were raised by a television and given a false impression of what women are, what they want and what they believe are attracted by something that appears to both provide them with valuable information, shared experiences and also a viable solution (whether it is popular with others or not).

It is a bridge for many to even more important truths that they have been sheltered from, and a cathartic release of suppressed anger at our insane society from which they can then (ideally) move on from. They did/do raise some good points, but I think that's very often lost in the noise of those with an axe to grind or who get stuck in the cynicism.

But MGTOW is clearly not a state in which man should be stuck permanently; it is also negative and promotes passivity. If men had any guidance from previous generations MGTOW would be redundant.

Anonymous VFM 9054 December 09, 2017 6:07 AM  

This connects fairly neatly to your idea that the only reason why there is a migrant crisis, and consequently a looming genocide, is because European powers lacked to moral fortitude to simply sink the boats.

The only reason why divorce rape is a thing is because men lacked to moral fortitude to do what must be done.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 6:22 AM  

> European powers lacked to moral fortitude to simply sink the boats

If you can't tell a bitch no, you've let your country go.

Blogger Lazarus December 09, 2017 6:23 AM  

Family law is one of the main reasons muslims want to establish Sharia courts.

Fathers seem to have more weight in that system.

Considering how many women go straight to the "he molested the children" ploy, it is probably a good idea to give less weight to their testimony.

OpenID markstoval December 09, 2017 6:24 AM  

He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath.

There are some of us who still believe in revenge. I think "taking the law into your own hands" is honorable and necessary at times.

We seem to have lost that belief. A gang of thugs hurts or kills your daughter and the court lets them off with a slap on the wrist? I would spend the rest of my life plotting to kill them all and everyone related to them. And I don't think Jesus would blame me either.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 6:35 AM  

> And I don't think Jesus would blame me either.

Who, the Son of David?

No, he wants you to let Animal Control humanely relocate the lion, the wolf and the bear who rend the flock.

You monster.

Blogger Robert What? December 09, 2017 6:42 AM  

Yes, I saw you threw that in. But since carousel worn sluts are pretty much all that is available to most young American men, you might as well have said it.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 09, 2017 6:44 AM  

I think JAG needs to be a little more clear about MGTOW. Before 2014 or so, while I didn't agree, it seemed much more of an "enjoy the decline" movement. Then the Incels showed up and the Gamma Virtue Signaling took over. I.e. it became another MRA-type group. (One wonders, now, if these things aren't intentionally infested by rather nefarious agents.)

One can have sympathy for a Man that's been lied to his entire life and gets wrecked by society in the pre-2015 era. When you've been literally propagandized into being a serf to everyone and you get crushed if you don't. But that was then and this is now. No one ever has sympathy for Gammas for very long. Many have tried and come to the same conclusion that it wasn't much worth bothering.

"God helps those that help themselves" is anti-Christian propaganda, however it's nearly impossible to help someone that won't try to help themselves. This is why Gammas are so off-putting.

Now, on the very American aspect to some of this, because of the Legal System, a point of order. DO NOT SIGN A MARRIAGE LICENSE. There are alternate legal approaches, now, that you *SHOULD* be taking. It matters. It matters a lot. Find a lawyer in your area that can handle the documentation for it. You're going to need to put your assets into a Family Trust structure of some form, but that's fine. You will protect your assets, your children and your wife in the process. And it'll only cost a little bit.

And if your prospective wife won't "stand" for an alternate legal structure, just "next" her and move on because she can't be bothered to follow. So, bounce.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2017 6:45 AM  

Nobody has any use for a sackless wonder.

Blogger The Observer December 09, 2017 6:46 AM  

MGTOW, I believe, is a temporary state many men must go through to learn many hard truths about our society and women in particular.

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself - I did use to be angry in much the same manner that a lot of MGTOWs were. Then I realised that it was mired in the same assumption of equality that plagues much of modernity. I was angry and upset that men weren't valued as much as women from the get-go - and then I finally got around to the fact that men and women are different.

It should be obvious, but a lot of people don't see it.

By virtue of possessing a womb, a woman has a measure of intrinsic value. She doesn't have to do anything in order to be pursued and admired for it; she just has to exist, and that's what MGTOWs envy. Some women win the genetic lottery, some lose it - and the losers can't do very much to improve themselves greatly. A bit of girl game can help, but no matter how sweet and demure she is, chubby Chelsea isn't going to be landing a billionaire husband. The limit for a woman's success is also limited; if she works really hard at it; she might raise about ten children over the course of her life.

All this reflects nature; the woman is the low risk, low reward option. Her genetics tend towards the middle; fewer female retards, but also fewer female geniuses. Fewer genetic diseases, due to one X covering for the other, but all those recessive intelligence genes on the X never get expressed.

This is also why a woman who has no children is far more of a failure than a man who has none; she was the low-risk option, and failed to get even that. The very thing that gave her much of her value - her ability to bear children - has been frittered and wasted away. Since this was fairly rare up till the modern era, our lizard brains assume that any fertile-age woman will be having children and respond accordingly, but our monkey brains should at least know better.

Men come into the world with precious little. Few people are obligated to care for you. You are designed by nature to be expendable, and people act accordingly. Nothing is guaranteed; you only have what you can work for, build, and successfully defend.

But the possibilities are infinite. All women may be guaranteed a small cottage, but they are limited to such. Men decide through their actions whether they get a leaky shack or a mansion. If you win big, you may father thousands of descendants, like Genghis Khan did. Of course, you may win nothing - but unlike a woman's beauty, a man has far more control over his fate.

And even if you die, there is honour in having fought and died; nature uses men to experiment, to decide what works and what doesn't. It's not surprising that mens' sexual fetishes are far more precise, wide and varied than womens'. If you fail, and end up amongst the ~50% of adult men who never left descendants, then you have contributed as nature intended to the evolution of the human race. To give up - to lay down arms and not know - you are going against one of your reasnos for existing as a man.

And that's what led me to abandon MGTOW years ago.

Blogger The Kurgan December 09, 2017 6:48 AM  

Vox, I suspect I know the answer, but if you'd like to expound on how men could end the whole divorce etc. Etc in 30 days, I for one would be very interested in reading that.

Blogger The Observer December 09, 2017 6:48 AM  

Considering how many women go straight to the "he molested the children" ploy, it is probably a good idea to give less weight to their testimony.

With stories like these, I understand why in circumstances of rape 4 male Muslim witnesses are required.

Anonymous VFM 9054 December 09, 2017 6:51 AM  

Robert What? wrote:Yes, I saw you threw that in. But since carousel worn sluts are pretty much all that is available to most young American men, you might as well have said it.

You are a liar. I am dating a virgin. My brother is dating a virgin. My best friend married a virgin. Actually, all of my close friends who are married, married virgins. There are plenty of quality women out there, you simply have to look. Decide on your standards, and kick any woman who doesn't meet those standards to the curb.

OpenID chronicrpg December 09, 2017 6:54 AM  

"Would any Roman patrician have meekly submitted to being made an indentured servant at the whim of his wife and the word of a judge?

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath. That's why Roman law permitted patriarchs to kill those under their authority who crossed them in any way - because they were going to do it anyway and the maintenance of legal order in their society relied upon acknowledging that reality."

I guess that's why Romans managed to keep their women sufficiently in control and family values intact enough to avoid demographic collapse. And Octavian Augustus was not forced to issue futile laws against adultery or unmarried and childless patrician men, while his own daughter whored it up with half of Rome...

Oh wait.

And Augustus was not just trying to shame young patricians into marrying and producing children by invoking examples of old Roman virtue. He tried to provide them with some actual incentives for socially responsible behavior and disincentives for the opposite.

At the moment rulers of the West provide incentives and disincentives in reverse order, punishing and berating men who try to be husbands and fathers. No amount of shaming, calling back to ancient civilizations which succumbed to sexual depravity and family collapse just fine once they got affluent, or otherwise trying to improve the army's morale with beatings is going to even slightly compensate for that. Communist states of XX century possessed some of the mightiest propaganda machines in history, and they still failed at convincing people to act against incentives offered by the social order. Shame MGTOWs for cowardice however you will, the effect would be same as that of Soviet media of 1960s, 70s and 80s shaming workers, who avoided work or did not care about doing it well, for sloth.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 6:55 AM  

But since carousel worn sluts are pretty much all that is available to most young American men, you might as well have said it.

That's ridiculous and utterly false. Spoken like a bitter little Gamma. There are literally millions of young American women who are not "carousel worn sluts".

"God helps those that help themselves" is anti-Christian propaganda

That is totally false. It is a paraphrase of an old Greek aphorism that predates Christianity by centuries.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 6:57 AM  

> With stories like these, I understand why in circumstances of rape 4 male Muslim witnesses are required.

I wouldn't believe a story about less than 5 Muslims raping someone either. It's not like the participants are shy about admitting it.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket December 09, 2017 6:58 AM  

I've seen the mgtows complaining that all the womenz are sluts but this is simply objectively false. Only 15% of women have ever engaged in a one night stand. That leaves 85% who have not.

After having spent a great deal of time speaking with them the real problem is that most of them are extremely unattractive emotionally and mentally yet somehow believe that they should be dating a woman who is an 8+. All this bitching they do about sluts? They couldn't date those sluts even if they wanted to anyway.

Also as a divorced man I will state again, as I have told young men and mgtows many times, divorce is not that bad. Yes you lose some shit. Yes you have to give some federal reserve notes over to your ex wife. Yes you are going to pay child support. But now you are free to court, date, and eventually marry a much MUCH younger woman. And if you so choose have another family. I know because I did in fact do so.

Your ex wife on the other hand? Now she's old, now she's a divorcee, and a single mother. She's fucked. The only men who will commit to her are the low SMV men.

Divorce still benefits men. Now you can have one family, divorce (or more likely get divorced by) your first wife and replace her with a new model ten or fifteen years younger and have an entire second family.

Honestly after spending quite a bit of time speaking with mgtows their real issue is that they are a collection of men ranking 1-5 in SMV and they are pissed as hell that the 8+ women aren't dating them. Rather than get off their asses and do something about it they just whine on the internet.

*Also I'd like to add that a very significant chunk of the men on those forums are brown guys, Indians, Pakis, and Mexi-whatevers who have invaded the West and are pissed as hell that white women won't date them.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 6:59 AM  

I guess that's why Romans managed to keep their women sufficiently in control and family values intact enough to avoid demographic collapse.

Yes, Rome eventually went the way of all societies. But it lasted centuries longer than the USA will. The Lex Julia to which you refer was after the end of the Roman Republic, which lasted for 500 years. And many of its virtues survived in the Eastern Roman Empire, which lasted another 1400 years.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 7:03 AM  

> Shame MGTOWs for cowardice however you will, the effect would be same as that of Soviet media of 1960s, 70s and 80s shaming workers

The fact that words cannot halt a megatrend does not mean the words are wrong or wasted. Jesus' preaching didn't stop the destruction of Judea, but it did save the Elect. Let the weak fall.

Blogger Wanderer December 09, 2017 7:10 AM  

This post is so out of touch it may as well have been written by a boomer.

Anonymous map December 09, 2017 7:11 AM  

VD,

Wow...I really like that.

I mean, there is something to be said for not playing a game that is stacked against you, but this is so much better.

Yep...that is just what you do. Kill the wife, her, lawyer, the judge...everyone involved. If you die or go to prison, your kids will inherit what you have.

At least, your sons will see how their father took care of business and his enemies.

Anonymous map December 09, 2017 7:13 AM  

Divorce law is the reason why courthouses have metal detectors.

Anonymous Ages December 09, 2017 7:18 AM  

Divorce still benefits men. Now you can have one family, divorce (or more likely get divorced by) your first wife and replace her with a new model ten or fifteen years younger and have an entire second family.

Absolute adulterous degeneracy.

Anonymous Rocklea December 09, 2017 7:18 AM  

I wonder what future gay divorce cases are going to be like? Are we going to have Family Law Court judges ordering Rainbow the Labradoodle cut in half?

"He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath."

Can't say I disagree with the sentiment. But it will be a post collapse/rebirth thing.

Anonymous Asatru Heathen December 09, 2017 7:19 AM  

The fact that words cannot halt a megatrend does not mean the words are wrong... Let the weak fall.

It's worse than that. The weak may fail, but at least they try. Too many of these men are cowards, clinging tightly to their excuses like a safety blanket, so that they may avoid being tested.

Blogger Alexandru Constantin December 09, 2017 7:22 AM  

There are fantastic, beautiful, interesting, and virtuous women out there, unfortunately for mgtow they aren't interested in fat loosers who jerk off to anime.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 7:22 AM  

This post is so out of touch it may as well have been written by a boomer.

Crying about reality isn't going to make it go away. There is nothing "out of touch" about it. It's merely out of sync with your precious feelings.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket December 09, 2017 7:23 AM  

If you accept that the woman can leave, and you accept that if she does you will just go replace her with a younger better one, and make it true, then the first woman won't leave.

She'll still shit test you sure. To make sure you are congruent. But women have always shit tested men throughout all of history.

Seriously spend some time talking with and getting to know these mgtows. They don't actually want to get married and have a family. They're pissed off because they can't go have countless sexual escapades with the hottest women around without any commitment or any real work. Cause in mgtow fantasy land "Chad" was just magically born the man he is, his own hard work had nothing to do with it, and they weren't magically born that way.

Oh or they'll blame 'society' for not teaching them about shit tests or that women *gasp* are attracted to attractive men. So what? Now you know. Go do something about it.

And no, whining on the internet isn't doing something about it.

Also do you want to actually help change divorce law in America? Google the shared parenting initiative. Give them time and money. They have indeed made real change to the laws. No need to kill anyone just get off your ass and act. I have helped with two of their previous state campaigns and seen the demographics of the voting on equal shared parenting post divorce. You know what sex votes majority for an assumption of equal custody post divorce? Women. You know which sex defeated this vote in NC when we got it on the ballot? Oh yeah. Men.

I've given various mgtow groups this data. I've linked them directly to the shared parenting initiative. They still don't do jack shit. They just keep whining.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket December 09, 2017 7:25 AM  

My first wife divorced me after starting an affair with her boss nine years ago.

Now I'm married to a woman twelve years younger and forty pounds lighter than her, fifteen points higher IQ, who has given me an entirely new family.

Also I'm not a Christian. I admire what is in the Bible but I think you're all generally a bunch of deluded weak cucks. Carry on

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 09, 2017 7:31 AM  

My own observation is that the MGTOWs are the product of adverse selection.

They are the bottom 15% of the Red Pills.

Unavoidable I'm afraid. There's always going to be losers.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 7:32 AM  

I think you're all generally a bunch of deluded weak cucks.

Our wives don't cheat on us and WE'RE the cucks? Exactly how does that compute?

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 7:32 AM  

> Absolute adulterous degeneracy.

There is no standard of monogamy in the Bible. The man who is frivorced by his wife and marries another commits no sin. His wife has played the whore against him.

Nor does the man who marries a second wife after his first commit a sin.

Anonymous karsten December 09, 2017 7:34 AM  

"Would any Roman patrician have meekly submitted to being made an indentured servant at the whim of his wife and the word of a judge?

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath."


Okay, so I'm going to assume that you are NOT asserting that men, in order not to be deemed "cowards," should become literal murderers, like those blacks who chimp out and go on killing sprees.

Therefore, you must mean the above advice figuratively. Ergo:

"Vox, I suspect I know the answer, but if you'd like to expound on how men could end the whole divorce etc. Etc in 30 days, I for one would be very interested in reading that."

As would I.

Anonymous Eduardo December 09, 2017 7:36 AM  

Soooo... In vitro babies will save WestCiv.

No, I mean it...

Seriously XD.

---------------------

Technology will probably change the game completely, it will be so fudged up, all there will be left of actual WestCiv will be the future's version of the Amish.

Bet Vox will probably also be the leader of group too.

OpenID doktorjeep December 09, 2017 7:37 AM  

I would have called myself MGTOW under most circumstances but it appears a pattern of a certain expectation of MGTOW has taken place. The definition has morphed from men calling their own shots ("Sigma") to bitter incels complaining. Been watching this for years. Still I manage to get laid even after I tell them that women should not be allowed to vote and all immigrants have to go back. Go figure. Yes what is, is what we tolerate. And we need not have to go to that point where we have to kill everybody if it's done right from square one.

But if the definition of MGTOW has been "fuck off I just wanna play my video games and wank to anime, then I can see the point. It is anti-civilizational.

But such is the agency of men that those who do not marry and have kids have other means. That's always been the case. Very few roles for women ever involved an anti-reproductive strategy. Nuns are pretty much it, which is why nuns were remarkable in that respect.

But for men, father and husband are just roles on a bigger list of choices. This is why a man can be a monk or dedicate his life to science like Tesla and is not deemed a failure if he makes a contribution but for women? Well it's said "nobody cares about your degree and office job" and that's not a truth that comes from us, but from nature itself.

Yes we tolerated too much. The boomers made "I'm married I can get fat now and be an adult child" the norm, making marriage look like the end of being a human being and the start of being a human slug (the women years ahead) and to GenX this looked the horror. The big trend in the 1990s for GenX women was to get married, get fat, then watch too much Oprah and start making demands. The rush hour started filling up with de-balled bitter men driving old minivans (while he worked six days a week paying for her luxury SUV).

For what was it worth to be "as mentally agile and adaptable as a man is capable of"?
Well to see the divorce trap for what it was and pretty much end up doing what the table-toppers and wargamers in the leftist think tanks predicted. You see the "big lie" was that women were oppressed and marriage was a horror for them and a slavery even 100 years ago, but even in the west if that truly were the case there would have been a WGTOW then. But the left always projects and they worked to make their lie a truth for men.

So sometimes I wonder what the Cathedral would resort to if white men started up a "black man reproductive strategy" and started siring white kids all over the place... I think there would be castration vans rolling around the countryside.

So we were careful and played right into their hands and now a lot of us are past our shelf lives.

Oh well. I knew I was onto something 20 years ago at my own table predicting what would come next and having now trained over 1000 people in the use of small arms. To this I dedicated my life.

As for the young bucks, when they are ready to burn boomerism and their system in the fires of comeuppance they have my sword. For me that's all that is left and I have never been unique in my entire life.

On the upside I'm seeing a lot of 20-something couples, a lot of them clearly Americans, with kids. I think they get it. I won't be standing in their way all for the sake of some boomeristic material gain.

My only fear though is, if it were to be my mission to reproduce, at my age, but use a younger woman, she'd have to be pretty dumb. Or pretty AND dumb. :-D

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 7:38 AM  

> Our wives don't cheat on us and WE'RE the cucks?

Ah well he means we're GENERALLY cucks, whereas he is SPECIFICALLY one.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket December 09, 2017 7:44 AM  

He was pretty damn explicit in his OP. I'm not sure what you guys are failing to understand.

I will, however, give you some alternate options.

The immediate option; follow the advice that so many men have cultivated to become a very attractive masculine man, pass shit tests, have preselection (typically called dread post-marriage), and find a good woman who realizes just how damaging divorce is and just how important family and your bloodline is.

The long term option; find a good organization such as this one:

https://nationalparentsorganization.org

Or just Google shared parenting initiative and do your own research. Then donate your time and money to help us get signatures and force a vote on changing the custody laws. I've actually done this. Do you guys even realize that a tons of good women volunteer their time and money to organizations like the one above?

You just have to get off your ass and act. That's also how you meet a good woman as well btw.

Blogger JACIII December 09, 2017 7:46 AM  

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them

This is what goes through my head everytime I hear from a male how his life is ruined because the judge/lawyer/court said he has to give half his income to his ex for the privilege of never seeing his kids. There are just too many places to hide a body.
Worst case = You've lost everything, so there is no gain to working daily to add to the pile of what you have already lost. Bail out, Ply your trade elsewhere. To my knowledge the FBI isn't tracking down deadbeat dads in Uruguay.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 09, 2017 7:47 AM  

The point in my life where I could have been viewed as having MGTOW attitudes was also the point where I was banging the most women I ever did in my life.

There was a certain advantage in my being aloof that genuine MGTOWs just don't seem to have.

Blogger Lovekraft December 09, 2017 7:47 AM  

I've done the marriage, raising a kid, playing the field, solitude. One major hurdle to relationship success is: who has her ear? Can she be tempted by team woman, feminist poison, and how can I as a man invest time if I do not have some measure of certainty of her loyalty? And don't say 'don't be so controlling, let things just flow naturally.' That's complete b.s. and like saying "I'm not sure the brakes on this car have been maintained, but take it on the highway anyways!"

Yes, men need guys like VD to give their heads a shake and get out of the self-pity and bitterness.

OTOH, let's be real. Some guys, due to their circumstances, aren't quite able to meet the bar, and kicking them when their down is harsh. That doesn't mean, however, that bitterness and neckbeard whining is the answer. If they direct their energies towards the flaws in the system and how to fix them, we should be supporting these guys.

I support any movement that tries to break the blockade of instruction to the young men. Mainstream websites (using reddit as an example) jumps down my throat anytime I push alternatives to the poison pill of feminism. Got banned from r/datingoverthirty for linking a video of a guy explaining the hotness/crazy scale and red flags.

Last note and I hope VD can comment on: awareness of frivorce, no-fault divorce, women initiating 70% of divorce gives me the skeptical impression that single women over, say, 35 years have a major flaw. I think: if she were the type of woman I'd want to have a serious relationship with, she'd still be married or would have locked down a man. And I am direct in discovering this. If I get signs that perhaps I've found that rare gentle soul, believe me, I'll put the effort in. But if she's evasive or gives of the grrlpower vibe, the onus shifts onto her. Equality, amiright?

Blogger Phillip George December 09, 2017 7:51 AM  

smash an overton window while you still have stones to throw

who inseminates whoM?

Give Jesus a day off. Do it for Him.

Anonymous karsten December 09, 2017 7:51 AM  

"My own observation is that the MGTOWs are the product of adverse selection.

They are the bottom 15% of the Red Pills.

Unavoidable I'm afraid. There's always going to be losers."


All right. Let's say that you're correct. I'm not even being sarcastic -- let's say that you're absolutely correct. Let's even say that the percentage is higher than 15%.

They're losers. They're at the bottom end of the socio-sexual hierarchy.

Therefore, aren't they not supposed to breed? Wouldn't their being losers mean that you don't want them contaminating the gene pool?

And wouldn't that make MGTOW their inevitable fate anyway?

Or is just that you want them to be de facto MGTOW, but feeling awful about themselves too, instead of maybe taking some meagre solace in the tenets of MGTOW?

It's like you recognize that they're screwed, but just want them feeling rotten about it too, for . . . what reason? For your lulz?

Blogger Michael Neal December 09, 2017 7:53 AM  

Preach this is a topic is long overdue, this applies also to the players who have decided just to slay poon for the teat of their lives and not ger married, just another way to deal with the cowardice

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 7:53 AM  

Divorce law is the reason why courthouses have metal detectors.

But the street the judge walks his dog on doesn't.

Blogger Lovekraft December 09, 2017 7:58 AM  

That story of the white guy murdered in that hotel has spread from local news, to liveleak, to now Gateway Pundit.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/12/arizona-police-officer-acquitted-murder-unarmed-man-media-silent-victim-white/

Blogger My Opia December 09, 2017 8:00 AM  

"The truth is that men often suffer the legal order they deserve, because they tolerate it."

And yet when they refuse to tolerate it any further, you call them 'low morale cowards.' You have your moments of insight on other matters but in this case you're wrong. Should a man not tolerate it by taking up arms against the State and its court systems? What exactly does he have to do to meet your approval in getting that Western birth rate up? Expecting all men to act for the civilization you want makes you no different than every other socialist, communist, feminist, other '-ists' that are trying to shame/force men to create the civilization they want.

Nobody owes you anything, not even those who have everything in common with you. Sane men everywhere are trying to dislodge a massive parasite. The fact not everyone chooses your tactics does not preclude them as less effective by method. In fact you've added yourself to their list of the socially ignorant they'll need to overcome to get the life of their choosing. You're just as parasitic as those you claim to despise.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 09, 2017 8:06 AM  

@63 karsten

What I mostly want them to do is stop pestering me.

Their off topic attempts at trying to recruit recent Red Pills had me deleting comments twice a day at one point. That's a lot for an unread blog.

They finally gave up but it was bother and a nuisance.

I've got nothing against them but their Gamma rage makes sympathy difficult.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 8:07 AM  

And yet when they refuse to tolerate it any further, you call them 'low morale cowards.'

Exactly. Because they are running away from it, they are not fighting it. What else could you possibly call them?

Expecting all men to act for the civilization you want makes you no different than every other socialist, communist, feminist, other '-ists' that are trying to shame/force men to create the civilization they want.

You're very stupid. I am telling men that only they can create the civilization they want. I'm not trying to shame them or force them to do anything. It's amusing that you think I'm talking to the MGTOW at all. I am merely using them as an example.

You're just as parasitic as those you claim to despise.

That's absolutely and utterly false, to such an extent that it raises the question of whether you even understand the meaning of the term "parasitic".

Anonymous Asatru Heathen December 09, 2017 8:07 AM  

Expecting all men to act for the civilization you want makes you no different than every other socialist, communist, feminist, other '-ists' that are trying to shame/force men to create the civilization they want.

I've not seen Vox 'expect' anything of the sort. But just as they are entitled to opt out, Vox is enitled to express his opinion of that.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket December 09, 2017 8:08 AM  

If only women found whining on the internet and trolling youtube comment sections attractive. They'd all be hooking up.

Anonymous Mr Anderson December 09, 2017 8:09 AM  

As much as I appreciate a good shamefest, the roasties are still running amok voting for politicians to open the doors to invaders. Men should keep their sovereignty, I don't care how much you need the babies. Authority should have never been taken away from men.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Poignant, male spaces are needed now more than ever.


Anonymous Jay Will December 09, 2017 8:12 AM  

Success breeds weak men like zoos breed weak animals. It's not the animals that are the problem it's the zoo.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket December 09, 2017 8:15 AM  

The door to your zoo isn't locked.

Anonymous Jay Will December 09, 2017 8:17 AM  

You've taken it too literally.

Anonymous Jay Will December 09, 2017 8:22 AM  

Offer a lion food that it doesn't have to get itself and it will be rubbish in no time. But that lion won't ever turn it down.

MLAI.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 8:25 AM  

> You've taken it too literally.

No he hasn't. Lounging poolside at the zoo in full knowledge it's a dead end is a coward's move.

Anonymous Ages December 09, 2017 8:29 AM  

There is no standard of monogamy in the Bible.

Jesus didn’t leave us the Bible. He left us the Church, and the universal witness and standard thereof is monogamy.

The post I was replying to said nothing about unfaithfulness. That is a different thing, and remarriage may be permissible in those circumstances.

Anonymous Baseball Savant December 09, 2017 8:29 AM  

I am not saying "wife up those sluts"

This is interesting. I almost come from it at the opposite end where I sort of think you should wife up those sluts (easy for me to say, I know, I married a virgin). If you have the correct game/personality, you can turn a slut pretty fast in my experience. That's a big "if" I know, but still the possibility exists. I think if RP taught me anything, it's that women are absolute whores. I don't know if this is true, but quite a few of my buddies also married virgins and to be fair, all our wives are essentially nymphomaniacs at this point. I actually think Vox talked about this once actually and I always remembered it because I thought it was interesting in that society tells you the opposite.

If virgins turn out to be nymphomaniacs, I can't imagine what chicks turn into once they get a taste of the dick (and the guys aren't complete asses). At that point how does she NOT turn into a slut? The key is to get the girls young. If you aren't marrying young from good families, then chances are, she's a slut.

That's my gripe with RP. There are a lot of sluts out there. Not all of them horrible. Like VD, says, you take a risk. If you are trying to save Western Civ, I don't see how the sluts don't play some role in that considering they are the ones who provide the wombs. No doubt, women make horrible decisions to be sure, but if women deep down are sexual monsters, then I don't see how you can punish them for that.

You have to treat them like kids.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr December 09, 2017 8:30 AM  

The problem I see with MGTOW is that they are often tossing away their most marriageable years away. After 30, a man starts bleeding value, after 35, he's got serious problems.

And any single/childless man over 40 or so will, if he's honest and possessed of any manhood at all, tell you there's an empty space in his soul where a couple of children should be.

Anonymous Asatru Heathen December 09, 2017 8:31 AM  

It's a good tactic: flee to Italy to demonstrate one's bravery. Then call MGTOW or Charlottesville marchers cowards.

Choosing the battlefield is good sense, not cowardice. Vox has done more to fight for western civilization than most.

Blogger rumpole5 December 09, 2017 8:33 AM  

I agree with your analysis of the MGTOW man, but isn't taking these men out of the human gene pool a GOOD idea? Moreover, the MGTOW absence increases the scarcity factor for men with a backbone, making it easier for them to assert themselves. I can't think of anything better than a male generation produced by K-men.

Anonymous Ghost Who Walks December 09, 2017 8:35 AM  

Never forget that the Right of Vengeance is a right that *has* been infringed. It is still a right. Rights are for "the belligerent claimant in person." Google it and "Be that guy!"

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 09, 2017 8:36 AM  

“There's always going to be losers.”

Yes, but no man is doomed to be always among them. It is true that genetics may have made you ugly and stupid and there’s a limit to how much you can do about it.

Nonetheless there IS somewhat you can do about it, the doing of which removes you from the loser category.

And the vast majority of men are not so unfortunate as to have lost both the moron lottery AND the ugly stick lottery. For this majority the reason they find themselves in the loser category is circumstances resulting from bad choices. In which case it’s as temporary or permanent as you want it to be.

My problem with MGTOW is that they’ve chosen losing as a permanent way of life and yes, I cannot escape Vox’s conclusion that the major reason is cowardice.

Anonymous Jay Will December 09, 2017 8:38 AM  

Yes he has. No your wrong. Animals go to comfort, to much comfort will kill them but they can't help themselves. MPAI

Free will is a joke. Lots and lots of fat people are an INEVITABILITY given the conditions we have. You'll whine that they have to take "responsibility". But they WON'T, because MPAI.

In the long run and generally my avoidance/cowardly lifestyle is bad for me, but in the short term moment to moment I live, satisfying immediate impulses. Therefore I am an idiot.

And given most humans are idiots they need shepherding.

The powerful and stronger only want more shekels, so keep on getting fatter!! Its good for profits! Single people buy more cars. Divorce your husband, you go girl!!

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 8:41 AM  

The only soldier in the world who cannot surrender is the soldier of the world's one and only Red
Army.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 8:50 AM  

> Jesus didn’t leave us the Bible. He left us the Church

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Blogger Robert What? December 09, 2017 8:53 AM  

How can my opinion be a lie, you fool? Anyway congrats to you and your friends. Do you mind my asking what part of the country you live in, and how old you and your wife were when you got married?

Anonymous GM December 09, 2017 8:57 AM  

Come on, guys, this:

VD wrote:You're very stupid. I am telling men that only they can create the civilization they want. I'm not trying to shame them or force them to do anything. It's amusing that you think I'm talking to the MGTOW at all. I am merely using them as an example.

If a guy is really at the bottom, a little tongue lashing from Vox isn't going to move him anyway. It probably won't penetrate the fog well enough to land. You should know that Vox knows this, and that he isn't going to waste time engaging with someone who can't be moved. Dialectic for dialecticians; rhetoric for the fat middle; nothing for the lost. Pearls before swine, etc.

But the marginal case, the guy who fights back against Vox, is the guy who can maybe wake up by having his Gamma pointed out. If you are reading Vox, and you want to resist him on this point, then you just might have what it takes to make a contribution to the civilizational war.

This post is a compliment. Fall in line.

Blogger Dire Badger December 09, 2017 9:01 AM  

Al Goldstein wrote:Its easy for the those who've either never married or have a good marriage to say fuck MGTOWs. But when *your* back is against the wall and there is literally no way out, you too will see why burning it all to the ground is so attractive.

My back was against the wall, I got screwed 16 ways to sunday, up to and including spending a couple of years at the government's expense.

I didn't go MGTOW, I went Dom instead, and I must say, my current woman has been my pet for 17 years.

MGTOW is for losers, and only for losers. The moment I first laid eyes on it, when I got into the Manosphere, I knew it was for cowards that refused to fight.

If you are going to 'check out of life', do it the way Thomas Ball did... Only make sure you take the courthouse with you.

Blogger Dire Badger December 09, 2017 9:09 AM  

Grass Eaters are prey.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 9:09 AM  

It's difficult to find the right attitude. The truth of the matter is that once a man's heart is ripped out by a betrayer, it will not grow back (except by a miracle). In my own experience you have to make your way with means other than willpower, because that departs with one's heart. This requires a sort of realism that only those who have suffered can understand. The rule of nature is that, in the end, no one has your back and no one is going to help. A wounded animal ought to hide his blood from the other animals and not cry out.

There are two books I recommend to victims coming to terms with the pervasiveness of evil. The first is the Book of Job:

https://www.theologyofwork.org/old-testament/job/jobs-friends-blame-job-for-the-calamity-job-4-23/jobs-friends-accuse-him-of-doing-evil-job-4-23

The second is The Gulag Archipelago.

"Fight back? Not one of them tried to fight back. If they say it
was difficult to fight back in Yezhov's cells, why didn't they begin to fight the day before their arrest? Was it really unclear where
things were going? That means their whole prayer was that they
themselves should be. bypassed!"

Blogger My Opia December 09, 2017 9:20 AM  

"You're very stupid. I am telling men that only they can create the civilization they want. I'm not trying to shame them or force them to do anything. It's amusing that you think I'm talking to the MGTOW at all. I am merely using them as an example."

***

It's equally amusing when I took issue with the word "cowards" and not where you applied it. I mentioned MGTOWs fewer times than you did.

That said, I'm stupid and you're short sighted. Men cannot create the civilization they want until they create themselves. Believe it or not, the bulk of your readership are not 20 year olds, eager to absorb your wisdom of life. It's men who ran into the wall of lies while trying to create themselves and are now looking to understand what happened. Forgive them for seeking out some truth first before resolving to leave a trail of blood among their oppressors. But I can hear those echoes of republic's past:

"Flavius, there's illegal Punics running around everywhere."
"Let's do something about it."
"Great. Shall we pull swords and start slitting throats?"
"I have a better idea, I'll blog about it."

You're a smart guy Vox and like I said, you're right about certain things. But you're not always right. Perhaps using the word 'parasitic' was a little harsh. In this case you're an obstruction. One more thing to step around. Otherwise, keep on truckin'.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 9:21 AM  

The other one I do not understand is the lack of reaction to the UK's secret family courts kidnapping children. I often read about the gross injustices - Booker in the Telegraph covers them extensively, Peter Hitchens mentions them from time to time -, but it always looks like only half the story. But the other boot never seems to drop.

For I never read about some father caught painting his face with the blood of a judge, or polishing his necklace of social worker vertabrae. I did read about some dashing English gent, retired to France or somwhere, who like some modern day Pimpernel has setup a network to help people recover their children and escape the country, but no raw violence.

I don't expect every wronged man to act in such manner, but I would expect the odd one to do so. Perhaps, the English are too far inside the hajnal line for such old-school vengence, or too comfortable and distracted by all the mechanisms of modern soft hedonism - tv; internet; drink, drugs, and sex; etcetera - but whatever the cause fighting hard and dirty does seem beyond them.

C. S. Lewis was perceptive when he talked of a future made of men without chests. And whilst disappointed, I doubt he would be much surprised by either the MGTOW deserters or submissives to state led kidnap.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 9:21 AM  

If you don't understand that you are a zek and not a soldier, you aren't serious about surviving. If you aren't serious about personally surviving, you aren't serious about the West's survival.

The world is a gulag, the prince of the air is Stalin, and any social organization to the contrary is a short-term alliance of zeks or thieves desperate to dig out a livable corner of the world to hide in.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 09, 2017 9:23 AM  

I like the Stoics myself.

Too bad the Red Pill was not widely available to boomer low Deltas given to Gamma rage at times men, but even prior to that I found generally pre-30 years of age women are the gold, post 30 years of age men can be the prize. Didn't help that I am probably on the fringes of the "Spectrum", but life is too short for excuses.

The parable about two bulls on the hill needs to remind the listeners that a pre-condition to that happening is that you have to be a BULL.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 9:31 AM  

This is interesting. I almost come from it at the opposite end where I sort of think you should wife up those sluts (easy for me to say, I know, I married a virgin). If you have the correct game/personality, you can turn a slut pretty fast in my experience.

You are quite the alchemist, I am not sure I could turn base slut into golden girl. But then I was only interested in marrying a virgin, so like you, that is what I did.

I disagree with MGTOW, and think men should keep trying to find and marry good women, but, given the current quality of women, some men will miss out. This is not our fathers generation after all. Still, I am not sure the chances are as bad as some fear, but I willing to concede they might be.

But the key is whether you try and fail, or simply give up altogether. One is honourable defeat, the other despicable desertion. Christendom and the West need no more deserters.

Blogger SouthRon December 09, 2017 9:38 AM  

A man builds his family. A man leads his wife. The wife grows and sheds some of her stupid ideas and silly thoughts.

If all you see is sluts, your looking in the wrong places.

Sure there are a few Gomers in the world, but most women want to be led, protected, and loved by a good man. It's in their DNA.

If you can't do that, find a church, get yourself right with God, grow a pair, and become a man. Don't blame the sluts and withdraw to permanent secular celebacy.

Cowherds indeed.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 9:42 AM  

> once a man's heart is ripped out by a betrayer, it will not grow back

Time heals all things, as it kills them. If life gives you ice, make icicles. We will judge our oppressors, and grant them ample warmth. He of little faith doubts God's restoration.

> The world is a gulag, the prince of the air is Stalin

No it isn't and he isn't. The Gulag Archipelago is not the Bible.

> If you don't understand that you are a zek and not a soldier

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."

Blogger Kallmunz December 09, 2017 9:42 AM  

All this heat and fire over a small minority of men that don't matter anyway. They do have a point in the sense of "I'm not playing your fucking game and I don't care what you think about it."
The real problem is the men who support this system, if men withdrew their support of feminism it would crash and burn. This disgusting system is all the fault of men, it is men who sustain it, they are the enemy, the women in it, like MGTOW are irrelevant.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2017 9:44 AM  

> The Roman patricians are not good role models.

The people who produced arguably the most successful civilizing influence of all time are not good role models?

If you say so.

> There are some of us who still believe in revenge. I think "taking the law into your own hands" is honorable and necessary at times.

Then you understand the basis of western civilization a lot better than many of the posters on the t-shirt threads.

Anonymous Asatru Heathen December 09, 2017 9:45 AM  

The other one I do not understand is the lack of reaction to the UK's secret family courts kidnapping children. I often read about the gross injustices - Booker in the Telegraph covers them extensively, Peter Hitchens mentions them from time to time -, but it always looks like only half the story. But the other boot never seems to drop.

For I never read about some father caught painting his face with the blood of a judge, or polishing his necklace of social worker vertabrae. I did read about some dashing English gent, retired to France or somwhere, who like some modern day Pimpernel has setup a network to help people recover their children and escape the country, but no raw violence.

I don't expect every wronged man to act in such manner, but I would expect the odd one to do so. Perhaps, the English are too far inside the hajnal line for such old-school vengence, or too comfortable and distracted by all the mechanisms of modern soft hedonism - tv; internet; drink, drugs, and sex; etcetera - but whatever the cause fighting hard and dirty does seem beyond them.


I've wondered about this too. The more I deal with social services - my wife and I homeschool our children, so we get periodic check-ups - the more I'm certain that they choose their victims very carefully. We work very hard to make sure we do not present as easy targets.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 09, 2017 9:45 AM  

First some of you gents are just plain blowhards, Vox excepted.

"Find a church", honestly I am not a Christian so I know my advice is tainted but your churches are part of the enslavement machine that dogs white men.

Have you gents looked at your clergy, gently put they are sub-optimal.

Anonymous Dan December 09, 2017 9:47 AM  

Try to find a decent wife tho it be hard. My wife had one boyfriend before me. Suboptimal but she is devoted and faithful and homeschools our 4 kids. There are reasonably good women out there.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2017 9:50 AM  

> I don't expect every wronged man to act in such manner, but I would expect the odd one to do so.

If they did, what are the odds the MSM of Britain would publicize the fact? Versus that, what are the odds it would be a set of "mysterious unsolved murders" with a possible "suicide" at the end?

Anonymous Dan December 09, 2017 9:53 AM  

The divorce rate for middle class men with jobs is much less than 50 percent. Much of divorce is experienced by men who have little income and cannot support family. These men lose little wealth since they have little wealth.

Blogger Jesse Jackson December 09, 2017 9:54 AM  

MGTOW could be a useful, short-term strategy. Learn about yourself, what makes ya tick, what makes you happy. When you figure these things out, your chances of having a happy and productive union will improve greatly. Don't ever rely on a woman to make yourself happy or complete, you'll be in for a cruel suprise.

Anonymous TheTruthIsNeverAcceptable December 09, 2017 9:55 AM  

Wanderer wrote:This post is so out of touch it may as well have been written by a boomer.


Aptly chosen moniker there "Wanderer." No roots, so you provide no shade or grow to any real stature. You are just a weed that needs pulling up and discarding before your noxious seeds spread.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 9:59 AM  

FISK FIGHT

Koanic wrote:> once a man's heart is ripped out by a betrayer, it will not grow back

Time heals all things, as it kills them.


Wrong.

If life gives you ice, make icicles.

Agreed.

We will judge our oppressors, and grant them ample warmth.

We don't judge people or send them to Hell, God does.

He of little faith doubts God's restoration.

Granted. My faith is little at the best of times.

"The world is a gulag, the prince of the air is Stalin"

No it isn't and he isn't. The Gulag Archipelago is not the Bible.


I'm using metaphor for the first assignment and synecdoche for the second assignment (i.e. the hand of Satan = Satan). The Gulag Archipelago is for understanding how the Godless world operates--if you already understand, then you don't need it.

If you don't understand that you are a zek and not a soldier

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."


He's speaking in metaphor, ya damn sperg.

Anonymous Dan December 09, 2017 10:02 AM  

I have a cousin who experienced the worst. He married twice two kids each time, got dumped twice. He is a farmer, which is a hard life for a wife. Well he just married for the third time and his new wife is not flashy and helps him with his plain life on the farm. Not ideal but he has four lovely kids and he is happy and it is still way better than if he had not lived at all. This is almost the worst case possible and still better than MGTOW.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 09, 2017 10:03 AM  

SAK wrote:
"I don't expect every wronged man to act in such manner, but I would expect the odd one to do so."

...and Asatru Heathen replied:
"I've wondered about this too. The more I deal with social services - my wife and I homeschool our children, so we get periodic check-ups - the more I'm certain that they choose their victims very carefully. We work very hard to make sure we do not present as easy targets."

Yes. Clinical psychology studies have demonstrated that criminals make very rational decisions about who they choose to prey upon, and visible weaknesses are the primary criteria.

They're often cowards but not all, not always: even lions prefer the wounded calf for supper.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 10:06 AM  

The more I deal with social services - my wife and I homeschool our children, so we get periodic check-ups

You home-schooling in the UK, or are you based somewhere else?

the more I'm certain that they choose their victims very carefully.

Yes! I think so as well. It is the classic anarcho-tyranny of the meek and compliant getting every law, no matter how stupid, thrown at them to the 10th degree whilst the scoundrels who need a little smack to keep them rightfully in order are given a light touch out of fear.

And yes, good people who can appear tough enough targets can probably put the social workers off their attacks. Perhaps, we see no social service vengence killings as the man whose face says: "I will kill you if you touch my children", never gets his children touched.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 10:08 AM  

If they did, what are the odds the MSM of Britain would publicize the fact? Versus that, what are the odds it would be a set of "mysterious unsolved murders" with a possible "suicide" at the end?

Maybe, but if Brevik can get a complete manifesto out I would expect at least one blood drenched, skull polisher to acheive the same.

Blogger The Remnant December 09, 2017 10:12 AM  

As I often say, I'll get married again just as soon as the institution of marriage exists again. What currently exists is not marriage, but an abomination that I will not legitimize with my participation. This has nothing to do with probabilities of a good or bad outcome; it has to do with justice. Everyone here appears to agree that fighting injustice is a man's obligation. One way of fighting is to attack it head-on as Vox recommends. Another way is refusing to support it and watch it collapse under its own weight. There is no reason to shoot at your allies who choose one strategy over another. The only way to save civilization is to terminate the existing sham of it, not to prop it up.

Blogger James December 09, 2017 10:12 AM  

" I am not saying "wife up those sluts", I am merely saying that living one's life in fear of potentially wifing up a woman who may turn out to be less than entirely faithful and interested in playing the divorce lottery is not worthy of respect or emulation."

Gee, VD, turns out you're not as smart as we thought you were. What is it about MGTOW that turns men of genius into blithering imbeciles? As a MGTOW my self, and one who has no FEAR of saying it out loud even in this hostile environment, I can say that it is not WOMEN that I fear, but rather what I "fear" is the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the US Marshalls, the Secret Service, the Forest Service, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Labor, the Department of Agriculture, State Police, Local Police, the Highway Patrol, and the local dog catchers. They are all on her side, and nobody is on my side, not even you. So, do I look stupid to you? Do you really think it wise for me to take on the imperious forces of the Globalist Empire all by my lonesome? I would, if I thought there was the slightest chance to achieve victory, or even give them a bloody nose. But given the odds, well, it's a lot wiser to exercise my option of opting out and biding my time and working to educate the dimwits who don't get it. Then, when we have the numbers, we might have a chance. Otherwise, why bash our heads against a brick wall. I always thought Spartacus made a huge mistake not going north and instead turning back south to confront the Roman Legions. Well, I think Spartacus had more reason to suppose that he could win than I think I can win, given the order of battle we face.

Anonymous A Wife December 09, 2017 10:13 AM  

I asked my husband one time what he'd do if I divorced him. He said he'd be sorry to see me go. I then asked him what he'd do if I tried to take his kids and his stuff, and he said in all seriousness, "They'd never find your body."

He is a good, Christian man, takes care of me and the kids, is patient and kind, and would die to protect us. But I know him well enough to know that crossing him is a very bad idea. His honor means that much to him.

I could not respect this man more. There is zero chance I would ever divorce him.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 10:13 AM  

Do you really think I don't know how to answer a metaphor with a metaphor? Your Gulag lens of the world is a false one, just like Saruman's visions. It is superfluous because the Bible already describes the world as it is.

There is nothing metaphorical about being a Christian soldier. We stand ready to kill, as do all men of Israel, and we go armed, always.

Blogger Michael Maier December 09, 2017 10:18 AM  

> once a man's heart is ripped out by a betrayer, it will not grow back

BULLSHIT.

My first sexual relationship was a horrific disaster with a truly foul creature. I KNEW beforehand it was a terrible idea. And I suffered for my sinful idiocy.

For a long time, I have considered myself broken.

It's a lie.

Courage is always a choice. You feel the fear of the worst case and you do what the thing you fear anyway.

I am now opening my heart to a girl that may or may not be worthy of wife-ing up. But I intend to be fearless in finding out.

Prayer helps.

Blogger Michael Maier December 09, 2017 10:19 AM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:First some of you gents are just plain blowhards, Vox excepted.

"Find a church", honestly I am not a Christian so I know my advice is tainted but your churches are part of the enslavement machine that dogs white men.

Have you gents looked at your clergy, gently put they are sub-optimal.


Huh... it's almost as if NO ONE EVER WARNED US ABOUT THOSE GUYS BEFORE....

Anonymous Asatru Heathen December 09, 2017 10:21 AM  

You home-schooling in the UK, or are you based somewhere else?

Scotland. GIRFEC and the named person regime makes Scotland more oppressive than the rest of the UK, but England and Wales will catch up in a year or three.

And yes, good people who can appear tough enough targets can probably put the social workers off their attacks. Perhaps, we see no social service vengence killings as the man whose face says: "I will kill you if you touch my children", never gets his children touched.

Exactly.

I took some criticsm in the other thread for not liking the shirt, but that does not mean that I will not act to protect my children. I simply won't give you any warning that could be used against me in court. Or by some social worker as an excuse to take my children. We adapt to the jungle we inhabit.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 10:22 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cecil Henry December 09, 2017 10:24 AM  

MGTOW is a symptom.

Stop the navel gazing and focus on the causes.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 10:30 AM  

Koanic wrote:Do you really think I don't know how to answer a metaphor with a metaphor?

I think you have trouble with responding appropriately in general.

Your Gulag lens of the world is a false one, just like Saruman's visions. It is superfluous because the Bible already describes the world as it is.

The Bible is a complicated book that describes many things. Solzhenitsyn is an easy book that describes one thing.

There is nothing metaphorical about being a Christian soldier. We stand ready to kill, as do all men of Israel, and we go armed, always.

Oathcucks never killed anybody, but enemies both foreign and domestic abound. I'd like to speak with your commanding officer please.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2017 10:32 AM  

Mgtow is a symptom.

It's a symptom of two generations of giant pussies raised to be giant pussies.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 10:35 AM  

> We don't judge people or send them to Hell, God does.

False.

> I'd like to speak with your commanding officer please.

Then pray.

Blogger pnq8787 December 09, 2017 10:35 AM  

While I love Vox's sentiment that if the men of our society had any balls they would strike down and kill the judges and women who work to destroy the American family; I have to counter-signal a bit. The reason is that that logic wouldn't just apply MGTOW men, it applies to all men on all subjects of importance. For example, by that standard, European men are cowards for not rising against their government and slaying refugees and the politicians who brought them in! And the starving North Korean peasants are cowards for not slaying their oppresive soldiers and leaders! And the pro-lifers are cowards for not hunting down all the abortionists. But here's the reality. People in a society are raised with certains ideas about what is wise and what is admirable. It is very hard to escape your upbringing and the knowlege that you would be scorned by your own side even if you did rise up. For example, I remember reading a fictional story about a cop who dealt with a wife-beater by bringing the man out and killing him after his wife died of her injuries. It was a great kind of alpha story line. However, it reinforced that men have no right to physically harm their wives. Hence gynocentrism. In our society men come last, and it is the alpha white knights who are the enforces of gynocentrism. It's easy to blame the beta, delta, and gamma MGTOW for their cowardice. But their cowardice is really compliance; and I would suggest (with some doubt) that perhaps compliance to authority is one of the building blocks of civilization. Those who are compliant, and those who look toward future consequences are both easy to control and easy to mistake for cowards. No one wants to be the last man to die in a losing war; and no one wants to fight for a ungrateful people. (This is why the Japanese are correct to honor the war criminals in the Yasukuni shrine!) Our society was not let down by the MGTOW peasants, but by those who established our current societal values.

Blogger tz December 09, 2017 10:35 AM  

Same thing could be said about taking on the IRS, and some have tried.

And when there are protests like Malheur, oh, that is the wrong thing to do. Or even gatherings like Charlottesville - were they brave to try to gather and show solidarity? Some are still in jail without bond on trumped up charges that likely will be dismissed or they will be found not guilty.

If a MGTOW does take the risk, and it doesn't work out, I suspect instead of praising him for manning up and finding a woman and taking a risk, every action will be picked apart, there would be even greater criticism of everything he did long and a sermonette on how he deserved to have his life destroyed because, well, just because he lost. Even if he did everything he was told to do to avoid losing.

How many actual supporters would there be if the MGTOW decided to man up? Most would cuck as soon as there would be any trouble. There is no solidarity or loyalty. If they man-up they will still be an isolated individual without any support from anyone else to help when things go wrong.

Back just after 9/11 I observed we could end Abortion tomorrow since there were fewer Abortionists than Al Queda, and they weren't hiding in some remote caves in Afghanistan, but were out in public. Scott Roeder killed George Tiller - of partial birth Abortion fame who personally had the blood on 20000 innocents literally on his hands. What was the reaction? Ending Abortion would take far fewer men to become heroes, especially the LARPers that say they have learned krav-maga and tactical shooting "to protect innocent life". Go ahead and show me, If I'm on the jury I'll nullify. But we all know how it will end if it were to happen today.

Morale can be a reflection of reality. And note what is the proposed solution - murder-suicide, so if the MGTOW loses the bet, he ends up dead or in prison for murder. But don't despair, just roll the dice.

I do have hope, but it is not yet the hour. Prepare to man-up, get in shape and be able to defend yourself, save up some cash or precious metals, and wait.

MGTOW - ... their OWN way. That isn't necessarily into nihilism or oblivion. It can be the "other" resistance like in Vichy France. We have the lefty Nazis, and the cuck and moderate Vichy. But D-Day will come. Practice the other virtues while developing patience. You aren't alone but are currently outnumbered by people who hold power. That power will be shattered, and the power of truth and virtue will be ascendant.



Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 10:37 AM  

> Solzhenitsyn is an easy book that describes one thing.

Which is precisely how Sauron broke Saruman's mind: by filling it with an accurate vision narrowed to focus only on evil. Which is why I used that metaphor.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 10:39 AM  

Or even gatherings like Charlottesville - were they brave to try to gather and show solidarity?

No, they were not. "Showing solidarity" is for left-wing activists and monkey dancers. Of course, that event was led by left-wing activists, so what do you expect?

The reason is that that logic wouldn't just apply MGTOW men, it applies to all men on all subjects of importance.

No, it doesn't. We aren't talking about MGTOW men, we are talking about men who have already been attacked and lost everything. The average European is completely unaffected by the migrant crisis. I mean literally not affected at all in their day-to-day lives.

You simply cannot equate that with someone who has had literally everything taken from them.

I do have hope, but it is not yet the hour. Prepare to man-up, get in shape and be able to defend yourself, save up some cash or precious metals, and wait.

For what? It may not be the hour for you, but that hour has come and gone for tens of thousands of men who have done nothing at all except submit for the shearing like sheep.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 10:44 AM  

In fact, one might say that America is a target-rich environment. Not that I would, but a crazy fundamentalist might be able to think of many ways to lash out. If there are so many Christian soldiers out there, why are they trying so hard to keep the peace?

Here's the thing...and I intend to disobey the commandment as little as possible...I was cucked by my parents. We all were. The so-called men of the West devour their young, and boast about their victory. Should we kill them for it? Or should we love them as our enemies? These aren't simple questions.

If Job asked you for advice, what would you tell him?

Blogger marco moltisanti December 09, 2017 10:46 AM  

@52. VD December 09, 2017 7:32 AM
"I think you're all generally a bunch of deluded weak cucks."

"Our wives don't cheat on us and WE'RE the cucks? Exactly how does that compute?"

My understanding has always been that "cuck" as used by the alt.right has nothing to do with literal cuckoldry. Alt.righters frequently attack me as a "cuck" when I mention that my wife isn't white, but the only time I've literally been a cuckold was when I was with my blond, blue-eyed ex. "Cuck" is just an highly insulting term intended to emasculate an opponent whose behavior you find unacceptable.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 10:47 AM  

There is zero chance I would ever divorce him.

Smart woman.

Gee, VD, turns out you're not as smart as we thought you were.

And there is the IQ communications gap again.

As a MGTOW my self, and one who has no FEAR of saying it out loud even in this hostile environment, I can say that it is not WOMEN that I fear, but rather what I "fear" is the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the US Marshalls, the Secret Service, the Forest Service, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Labor, the Department of Agriculture, State Police, Local Police, the Highway Patrol, and the local dog catchers.

Yes, we know. So go and emasculate yourself. You've already done so metaphorically.

"I'm not going to take any risks because I'm afraid a bad thing MIGHT happen."

Take the risk. You're going to die anyhow, so you might as well make your life count for something more than your encyclopedic knowledge of Star Wars collectibles.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 10:49 AM  

> In fact, one might say that the USA is a target-rich environment.

It is. So find the weak point on the beast. Since you are able to hit its more vulnerable ethereal form, focus on that.

> If there are so many Christian soldiers out there, why are they trying so hard to keep the peace?

There aren't.

> If Job asked you for advice, what would you tell him?

Read Job.

Blogger marco moltisanti December 09, 2017 10:53 AM  

@89. Robert What? December 09, 2017 8:53 AM
"How can my opinion be a lie, you fool? Anyway congrats to you and your friends. Do you mind my asking what part of the country you live in, and how old you and your wife were when you got married?"

I wondered that too. Between getting divorced about ten years ago and remarried about five ago, I spent most of my time in blue states trying to get something going with the local white women. It was a wasteland out there. About 80% out of them were out of the running from the get-go due to weight and tattoo issues, and the remainder unquestioning feminists almost to the woman. I met maybe three I have anything good to say about, only one of which was what I'd consider marriage material, and I failed with that one due to lack of game.

This might be a regional thing. Maybe there really are a fair amount of marriageable white women out there in places like rural Texas or Utah. Also, as you point out, if the guys who are claiming there are plenty of traditional white virgin women of childbearing ago out there got married generations ago that could explain their difference in perception.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2017 10:54 AM  

> As I often say, I'll get married again just as soon as the institution of marriage exists again.

Oh, the institution still exists. It's just no longer what's defined in the law. But it's people that make institutions, not the law.

> I took some criticsm in the other thread for not liking the shirt...

Why didn't you just say it wasn't appropriate for your legal climate? Everyone would have understood that. The UK isn't its target audience.

> For example, by that standard, European men are cowards for not rising against their government and slaying refugees and the politicians who brought them in!

Give them time. Rome won't be rebuilt in a day.

Blogger Some Guy December 09, 2017 11:00 AM  

No, he’s just saying Man Up. I concede his point on this. I have been on the fence about this for a while, but I believe he may be right. If we want the world to be different, it isn’t going to just happen. We have to make it happen. Fear is a healthy way for that process to start. Just ask the Holy Spirit, that’s how wisdom starts.

Anonymous Ages December 09, 2017 11:04 AM  

Back just after 9/11 I observed we could end Abortion tomorrow since there were fewer Abortionists than Al Queda, and they weren't hiding in some remote caves in Afghanistan, but were out in public.

Interesting.

Anonymous Ages December 09, 2017 11:06 AM  

If Job asked you for advice, what would you tell him?

Well, God told him to shut up and stop complaining.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora December 09, 2017 11:08 AM  

I know a man who had to pay about every penny he made and had to work so hard he got a stroke and went blind in one eye. MGTOW might not be the answer but downplaying the consequences of divorce is an insult to the very people who did take the risk. This is like defending entrepreneurs by insulting the necessary failures.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 11:13 AM  

> Well, God told him to shut up and stop complaining.

One would think, having read God's displeasure with those who inaccurately speak for Him expressed in that very book, that a summarizer would at least use a quote.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 11:13 AM  

Forgive me for bleeding all over this thread. Usually I just read and drop goofy comments here and there, but this has struck a nerve.

The strongest desire of my life was to marry and raise children, be financially sound enough to home-school them on my own land prepped and ready to live off the grid if needed, and watch my sons or daughters grow to do the same.

So I made many foolish, even gamma-ish decisions in pursuit of this, married, had children, and failed miserably to live up to what I had envisioned. It hurts, it gnaws at me on sleepless nights.

But you know what, I would go back and give it another go with all my might. It was worth the effort. My wife and children are still among the most important and precious people to me in the world, even though I am separated from them during this existence in so many ways. They are among the few I will still give the benefit of a doubt and whatever little bit of selfless love I still possess.

I understand the temptation to give up in well doing, and have had to repent from it often.

Whatever true and deep joy or fulfillment comes my way is from them and my local parish family of faith, and with it often sorrow and pain. I embrace this as the only evidence of me living any kind of worthwhile manner, and struggle hard to fight against bitterness or resentment.

I have nothing else because I have neither earned or gathered it. One of the reasons I come here is to find hope in the success of others.

On a good day. On a bad day I drown my sorrows in whiskey, video games,,,,but my bad days are better than most people who have ever lived on this planet.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 11:17 AM  

"If Job asked you for advice, what would you tell him?

Well, God told him to shut up and stop complaining."

I'm not going to go quote mining, but IIRC correctly someone pretty much told Job that, and God had a few words for Job's critic.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 11:18 AM  

Koanic wrote:> Solzhenitsyn is an easy book that describes one thing.

Which is precisely how Sauron broke Saruman's mind: by filling it with an accurate vision narrowed to focus only on evil. Which is why I used that metaphor.


Should I understand from this metaphor that you're warning me against rebellion from God because Solzhenitsyn makes Evil look bigger than Christ at present? I can't think of a more charitable interpretation but I want to be sure.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 11:22 AM  

I am saying that Gulag is a false lens and the Bible is a true one. So don't tell people to view the world through Gulag in order to understand the Bible. If you can't understand the Bible, then listen to it. Like music, it was written to be heard.

Blogger James December 09, 2017 11:30 AM  

"Take the risk. You're going to die anyhow, "
Are you that certain that the communication gap is all on my side? IF you were as smart as we thought you were, you'd realize that my lack of personal obligation to a wife and kids actually frees me up to do the wild and crazy things that you suggested, the things that would destroy a person as an individual, but might promote good things in the remnant of society. I am well aware that I'm going to die anyway, and I'm willing and able to take risks. But why insist that I take the specific risk of dealing with a family when I don't believe that is the best use of my abilities, such as they are? I don't tell other men not to get married and have kids, I just advise them that they should consult with a competent and sympathetic attorney first, and do a lot of soul searching if they think they have a soul.

Anonymous Pitcrew December 09, 2017 11:30 AM  

Biblical law allows several concubines. Most Nobility in Europe kept (and keeps) mistresses. Just throwing that out there. It's almost as if they knew women were naturally whores.

In terms of what's best for Western Civ, an alpha asshole with several women that produce his bastards (that he then provides for) is preferable to couples with 1 kid, or inter-racial couples, or the couple with 3 adopted black babies, or the couple that doesn't even come into being because little Johnie MGTOW stayed home.

It's OK to be an asshole guys, you are supposed to be that way. It's the way God made you.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 11:31 AM  

GIRFEC and the named person regime makes Scotland more oppressive than the rest of the UK

Ah, now it makes sense. When you used the phrase 'social services' I was sure you were in the UK, but it seemed odd that you would be so harassed for home-schooling. This is one area where things are generally quite good in Blighty.

But Scotland has certainly fallen in this regard. I hope you can survive up there.

Anonymous BBGKB December 09, 2017 11:37 AM  

I am not saying "wife up those sluts"

Weka told me that the good women are all hiding at a Crossfit in New Zealand, if I want to go STR8

I wonder what future gay divorce cases are going to be like? Are we going to have Family Law Court

A gay divorce law firm opened up the same month the Surpemes decision happened.

Much of divorce is experienced by men who have little income and cannot support family. These men lose little wealth since they have little wealth.

Every hospital in the cuntree has at least one surgeon whose wife divorced him because she could enjoy 1/2 his money better without having to deal with his schedule.

Perhaps, we see no social service vengence killings as the man whose face says: "I will kill you if you touch my children", never gets his children touched.

This explains the (((gun control))) movement, & why nation destroyers don't want fathers.

Blogger James December 09, 2017 11:37 AM  

I Corinthians 7
"7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
"
It's OK to be single. VD, you're not right about everything. On this, you fumbled the ball, and committed a rare unforced error. You ARE telling us to marry the sluts, you just can't hear your self for some reason.

Blogger SouthRon December 09, 2017 11:39 AM  

I knew the shorthand of "find a church" would catch out the militantly unchurched or atheist-by-choice types.

Please Mr. Mantraman tell us more.

Where have you met men, real men, that fight the darkness everyday? The darkness in there families, the darkness in the world, physical and spiritual, the darkness in themselves?

People who take responsibility for preserving their culture, their nation, their world.

As Michael said I sure as hell wasn't talking about pussified churchian men. They are of no more use than MGTOW self-emasculates.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora December 09, 2017 11:40 AM  

He's not wrong about anything except the half your toys comments. For guys working 10-12 hour days most of the week toys aren't something they've seen since childhood. The consequences are so bad it has increased the suicide rate among divorced men. But he's right about the effects on civilization. Unfortunately, it's possible this civilization deserves to die. If it has set up the legal apparatus to be this destructive perhaps the world deserves a few centuries of darkness.

Blogger kmbr December 09, 2017 11:41 AM  

I feel for men (especially because I have a son) because even if you find a "good one". There is no guarantee she stays good.

Case in point, a friend of mine has a sister who was married for about 17 years. She was the complete trad wife. They moved to a 20 acre farm in Iowa. Home schooled. Church. She sewed. Cooked. Even got a little ample around the waist.

I don't know what happened because I get the story 2nd hand but she starts communicating with her first love high school boyfriend on Facebook.

Inside of a year, she's back here in Phoenix living with him. Leaves the kids behind with him and moves on to suburban life like none of the other stuff ever happened.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 11:42 AM  

It's OK to be single. VD, you're not right about everything. On this, you fumbled the ball, and committed a rare unforced error. You ARE telling us to marry the sluts, you just can't hear your self for some reason.

Don't misquote the Bible. MGTOW has nothing to do with the divine gift of chastity. And do not attempt to speak for me again if you wish to continue commenting here. I am not telling you to marry the sluts, I am telling you to stop lying to yourselves and falsely claiming that all women are sluts.

Some are, some aren't. Not every woman gives into every temptation.

Blogger S1AL December 09, 2017 11:43 AM  

James, are you an apostle whose life is wholely dedicated to spreading the Gospel and strengthening the church?

If not, those words aren't an excuse.

Blogger Ian Miguel Martin December 09, 2017 11:48 AM  

"MGTOW could be a useful, short-term strategy. Learn about yourself, what makes ya tick, what makes you happy. When you figure these things out, your chances of having a happy and productive union will improve greatly."

My personal experience was Omega + Redpill = MGTOW. And there I would have stayed, had I not stumbled onto the idea of finding and adopting a society that did not enforce the one drop rule, i.e., a society for which I was willing to sacrifice and to defend.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 11:49 AM  

patrick kelly wrote:"If Job asked you for advice, what would you tell him?

Well, God told him to shut up and stop complaining."

I'm not going to go quote mining, but IIRC correctly someone pretty much told Job that, and God had a few words for Job's critic.


It's an excellent book. "Shut up and stop complaining" is the way of the world, which is the mode in which Vox is teaching here. Modern Christians have a great deal of trouble understanding the "in the world, not of the world" bit.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 11:50 AM  

"I don't know what happened because I get the story 2nd hand but she starts communicating with her first love high school boyfriend on Facebook."

Sounds familiar.

Blogger Lovekraft December 09, 2017 11:51 AM  

Is it safe to point out that there needs to be a delineation of the term MGTOW into 2 branches, one noble, the other pathetic?

MGTOWbyChoice versus SurrenderMGTOW

Additionally, there is a process of becoming fully woke. You can have a married guy with three kids homeschooled but is a complete pussy, then have a loner who exudes confidence and power. And vice versa.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 11:53 AM  

James, if you are avoiding marriage to pursue some all consuming celibate vocation, then you are not avoiding women due to the MGTOW logic of women not being worth marrying in the current world, but due to having another cause.


So, are you MGTOW or warrior monk?

Blogger S1AL December 09, 2017 11:54 AM  

"You can have a married guy with three kids homeschooled but is a complete pussy, then have a loner who exudes confidence and power."

And yet only one of these scenarios is capable of perpetuating civilization...

You can't ignore that part. No children, no civilization.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener December 09, 2017 12:00 PM  

I would respect MGTOW who are using their freedom to do something so important that, in their rare individual cases, it mitigates the fact that they're not reproducing.

But I have yet to see a single example of that. All I see are whiny losers petrified by the thought of taking a risk and too shortsighted to see that risk of some kind is unavoidable.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 12:01 PM  

Koanic wrote:I am saying that Gulag is a false lens and the Bible is a true one. So don't tell people to view the world through Gulag in order to understand the Bible.

When someone asks you for directions to a hospital, do you give them directions to a church?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener December 09, 2017 12:02 PM  

@115 As I often say, I'll get married again just as soon as the institution of marriage exists again. What currently exists is not marriage, but an abomination that I will not legitimize with my participation.

I totally agree. So get married in the church and keep the state out of it.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 12:03 PM  

""I'm not going to take any risks because I'm afraid a bad thing MIGHT happen.""

Look dude, there's a lot of space between hiding in a gamma basement with toys and porn and charging a tank platoon across an open field with your AK screaming "freeeeeduuuummmmbb!!!".

Acknowledge fear and weakness and take some steps in the other direction.

Blogger James December 09, 2017 12:05 PM  

I don't see where St Paul predicated the acceptability of singleness on being an official monk living in a monastery under a vow of silence and poverty.
The disciples said flat out that, based on what Jesus told them, it was not good to marry, and that was 2000 years ago:

Matthew 19
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Y'all can say I'm misquoting the Bible, but, the meaning here seems very plain to me. It is not good to marry, based on what Jesus Himself said about it. Jesus also said about it:

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

So ought we all not be more careful about judging each other about these sayings? I'm willing to stop calling people stupid if they are willing to stop calling me a faggoty pussy coward without really knowing me.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 12:07 PM  

"... a loner who exudes confidence and power."

He's not a gamma MGTOW. He's a sigma, or at least more in that direction, definitely not a MGTOW apologist.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 12:11 PM  

> When someone asks you for directions to a hospital

Says the healthy man.

Blogger Blue December 09, 2017 12:13 PM  

Vox, this is the kind of stuff I need to hear. I default to boyish wimpiness, and a solid slap across the face reminds me to set aside childish ways (and thinking).

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 09, 2017 12:13 PM  

If they did, what are the odds the MSM of Britain would publicize the fact? Versus that, what are the odds it would be a set of "mysterious unsolved murders" with a possible "suicide" at the end?

There's a reason the place is called Cuck Island. If employees of (((fake news))) had similar levels of death on the job as white farmers in Mandelaland, they might not be so willing to cover it. The vendetta VD mentioned extends to everyone who supports the present looting/enslavement system: lawyers, judges, police, social workers and (((fake news))). None of them are innocent. As to the 'impossibility' of taking out such enemies, it's worth noting that a low-IQ dindu managed to off 4 armed badge-gang goondas sitting at a coffee shop a few years back and it took the other goondas 2 weeks to track him down in the same area. (The badge-gang selects only form the left side of the bell-curve). The dindu was an early release of the outstanding 'Christian' Mike Huckabee, by the way, yet another fine demonstration of the putrid fruit of Judeo-Christ worship. The badge-gang members killed were all white and killed for that reason - which of course was covered up by (((fake news))) and the entire political apparat of Washington State gulag.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 12:13 PM  

Koanic wrote:> In fact, one might say that the USA is a target-rich environment.

It is. So find the weak point on the beast. Since you are able to hit its more vulnerable ethereal form, focus on that.


I do what I can, but there are only a couple hundred people in the world who care what I say. Likely none of it will survive me. So my focus is on causing the people around me to breed, because this is the job of a genius, materially speaking. The best way to do this, I think, is to intoxicate them with sublime beauty.

"If there are so many Christian soldiers out there, why are they trying so hard to keep the peace?"

There aren't.


Yup. That one was for the weekend warriors in the audience.

"If Job asked you for advice, what would you tell him?"

Read Job.


Okay, that was a good one :-).

Anonymous Pitcrew December 09, 2017 12:14 PM  

A man after God's own heart had 8 wives.

Blogger S1AL December 09, 2017 12:16 PM  

"I don't see where St Paul predicated the acceptability of singleness on being an official monk living in a monastery under a vow of silence and poverty."

The irony of your snark is that the monastic life was literally forbidden to men under the age of 60 during at least one demographic crisis in Europe.

If you genuinely have the gift of chastity, and do not desire marriage or sexually relations, and are dedicated to another calling - great!

But if you're simply too scared - that's just cowardice.

Anonymous Pitcrew December 09, 2017 12:17 PM  

@166
That's if you "put away" ie. divorce the wife for another. Doesn't really forbid taking a 2nd wife, or a mistress does it?

Blogger James December 09, 2017 12:17 PM  

"So, are you MGTOW or warrior monk?"
That is a very fair question. The truth about me is I was already thinking MGTOW when I was maybe about 8 years old, back in 1967, based on my observation of the world and how it worked. I looked around and concluded pretty much what Jesus's disciples did, that it was not good to marry, because women had too much power to go with their inherent insanity. Of course this was long before MGTOW had a name beyond "confirmed bachelorhood." I have not been socially isolated, nor politically inactive, however. What really fascinates me is that MGTOW has become such a thing, that it is no longer a primarily personal choice, but is a profound philosophical and spiritual statement in opposition to the Spirit of the Age. I'm frankly surprised that VD not only doesn't get it, but is so mindlessly hostile to it and so hateful against us. Well, maybe not that surprised, considering his focus on repopulating the American race. Would it make any difference to him regarding his opinion of my MGTOW-hood if he knew that I was half Norwegian and half Mexican, and was not really an ethnic American in the first place?

Blogger S1AL December 09, 2017 12:21 PM  

"Would it make any difference to him regarding his opinion of my MGTOW-hood if he knew that I was half Norwegian and half Mexican, and was not really an ethnic American in the first place?"

Vox is White/Amerind/Mexican. What do you think?

Blogger Some Guy December 09, 2017 12:22 PM  

No, it is not all that is available. I can vouch for this as I married one who isn’t. The question is are you willing to loose is the area of hotness to increase in the area of holiness. Women with worthy hearts are not usually 9’s.

Blogger James December 09, 2017 12:24 PM  

"But if you're simply too scared - that's just cowardice. "

Isn't that rather simplistic? I'm curious about what it would be like to sky dive, but, I fear breaking my leg when I hit the ground. By fear I mean, the possibility of injury and death as a result of jumping out of a perfectly functional airplane is not worth the thrill I would experience. If I was going to jump out of an airplane that wasn't crashing, I would have done it when I was 20; now that I'm 59 years old, I can live without it. Same with a lot of other things in life.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 09, 2017 12:25 PM  

Oathcucks never killed anybody, but enemies both foreign and domestic abound. I'd like to speak with your commanding officer please.

On the contrary, Oafcuckers are more than willing to kill white people, as was evident in Mesa, AZ recently. It's the parasites, invaders and other enemies who they protect and serve. We even had a direct threat from an Oafcucker here a few months back. He's no doubt still on the job, collecting the paycheck waitin' for the promised 30 shekels of plastic pension tokens from state, backed up by the full faith and credit of (((Llord Bankstein))).

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 12:31 PM  

Koanic wrote:> When someone asks you for directions to a hospital

Says the healthy man.


A sick man ought to know better. Here's a parable:

A man with an inflamed appendix asked three men how to get to the hospital.

One said, "The Bible has all the answers. Here, take my KJV, you can't trust the others because they were written by Satan."

Another said, "You should pray for faith that God will heal you, for in him all things are possible."

The third said, "It's two blocks that way. Are you okay to drive? We can park your car here and you can pick it up later."

When the sheep are divided from the goats, which of these men will be on the left and which will be on the right?

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 12:32 PM  

@James.

Go back and read a few months worth of posts and comments here before you comment about Vox personally, what he "doesn't get" or being "hateful".

Quoting scripture here and the ensuing sword fights are often a distraction from and the result of not really understanding the context or emphasis of the original post.

This blog is not a church or a bible study, and Vox has ubber ninja philosophical, logical, and other linguistic dueling skillz you cannot imagine. Even if he's wrong or in error, most readers are not capable of countering with a worthy rebuttal or critique, and you are not likely among those who can. I know I'm not.

Just some friendly advice. Come here to learn or be entertained, take home some inspiration and food for thought rather than to defend whatever you feel like Vox has offended.

Blogger VD December 09, 2017 12:33 PM  

Same with a lot of other things in life.

That is readily apparent. You live life with a spirit of fear.

Your life isn't over. So stop doing it.

Anonymous Pitcrew December 09, 2017 12:33 PM  

@75
Jimbo, that's like 75% white at the least. In Latin America you'd be a catch. Better you married some SJW white shitlib chick than a black guy, or a muzzie. Now go do your duty. Crowd out the negroids from making mulatto SJW's.

@179
Only caveat is high level White democrats who are actively betraying the U.S. , The West and their race on a daily basis. Those white "people" need to be destroyed. Don't worry Kong, it's only a few thousand psychopaths, no loss.

Anonymous Godfrey December 09, 2017 12:36 PM  

Wake up men. Finding a wife is work. In my father's day women made an effort to find a husband. That's not the way it is anymore. Most women have no idea how to get a quality man. YOU have to make the effort now.

Stop complaining and get to work. The pickings are slim, but you have to dig to find treasure.


My advice:

Stay away from career women

Focus on young working women with an associates degree or below (e.g. waitresses, secretaries,clerical admin., etc.). They're all over the place, you just have to pay attention.

Go to Church get involved in the church's singles group

Network, network and network with friends, family and business associates (e.g. have a married friend? Work that angle and ask the wife if she knows of any single women in the market for a man.

Be approachable and have positive energy

Don't waste time on party girls. Time passes swiftly.

Don't be afraid to go young. Men mature later than women and the best women are off the market early.

No sex. It clouds the judgement.

Find a woman who has a good relationship with her father and who likes children. Be observant.

And finally, get used to failure and rejection. Get burned? Then it wan't meant to be. Learn from it, move on the wiser for it without bitterness.

Anonymous crushlimbraw December 09, 2017 12:38 PM  

The fact we have to accept is that every institution which defines our culture has been lost by the church and conservatives over the last 100 some years - every freaking one! So that is our starting point for a possible support group. When your pastor tells you to stop being John Wayne, get the hell out that church!
The problem is the same in most churches. Forget the schools - they are all now fully engaged in destroying Western Civilization. So now what?
It finally dawned on me about 12 years ago that I have a role in this - read a few books - stumbled upon Vox Popoli - and have now accepted my God given role as a fully engaged patriarch in my family. Funny thing - it was one of my sons-in-law who called me that first!
In any case, for the most part, it has been a bit lonely outside of my family - my old friends still alive can't carry on a conversation beyond the basic dailies and have no interest.
The reality we have to face as men of the west is that 'broad is the way to perdition and narrow is the gate to life - and few that find it' - but great change throughout history was never established by the majority.

Blogger S1AL December 09, 2017 12:39 PM  

Skydiving isn't necessary to the perpetuation of civilization. Children are.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 12:44 PM  

"Go to Church get involved in the church's singles group "

I would add do this on your terms, know what they are ahead of time, and don't be afraid to make enemies and ruffle feathers a bit. That will likely make you more attractive to more women to choose from, and eventually either confirm your decision about a particular church or to move on.

As usual I speak from my own experience of failure and offer what I consider to be learning from my mistakes. Go get em' tiger.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 09, 2017 12:44 PM  

Crushlimbraw points to the better way. As does VD - who even gives the post-Christians the old Roman option. Both are better and more honorable (even the blood-soaked Roman one) than whining, laying down in the mire and putting up your face to that your masters can stomp on it forever.

Anonymous Andy December 09, 2017 12:44 PM  

TradCon gonna TradCon.

Blogger James December 09, 2017 12:45 PM  

VD is calling me and others cowards without knowing us, based on our lack of desire to get married and have kids. How can he win a debate on this subject without knowing more about us? He might be right, we might be cowards, but, I'm saying that the mere fact of our MGTOW-ness in and of itself is insufficient to prove it, which makes him look less than his usual brilliant. In any case, I'm not going to do something I think is stupid just because someone on the interwebs called me a coward.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 12:46 PM  

Regarding the OP, here's a true story that is only a parable by accident:

One time, my dad told me to my face that he intends not to leave a single cent of his wealth as inheritance because "you can't take it with you". As he said this, I noted a confused mess of emotions in his face, as if he was ashamed but couldn't understand why. He's got an IQ around 110 and it's primarily nonverbal, so most of his worldview comes from Rush Limbaugh, Hal Lindsey, and Alex Jones.

Now, should I have argued the point? I think the answer is no, because parents are immune to their children's beliefs and it could only have started another shouting match about money (and my lack thereof, at the time). The Bible says I should honor my parents, which precludes sterile arguments that merely express disgust and change no one's mind.

Instead, I focused on surviving. Now that I've survived, I'm going to give him a call, and talk about anything except money.

Anonymous Pitcrew December 09, 2017 12:47 PM  

@188
Why commit suicide?
Go down fighting taking bastards with you.

See the Beast. Look it in its eyes. Fight it and those who follow it.

Anonymous FP December 09, 2017 12:55 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:That story of the white guy murdered in that hotel has spread from local news, to liveleak, to now Gateway Pundit.

Welcome to the result of drug war culture, especially there on the border in Arizona. Blatant man-slaughter if not 2nd degree murder caught on camera.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 09, 2017 12:57 PM  

@Pitcrew: Agreed. That was kind of the point of #188. Crushlimbraw's tale is one of victory at the micro-level against the system.

@James. Maybe you have the divine gift of chastity. If so this discussion really does not apply to you as such a gift would have the effect of removing your chip from the table.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 1:00 PM  

I watched that video. The poor guy reached back for something. The verdict was correct.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 09, 2017 1:01 PM  

At what point do men shake the dust off their feet?

Serious question. There always comes a point when you have to retreat and let things fall apart.

I agree that most men need to man up and be better than low-deltas, gammas, or omegas, but even the alphas won't take foolish risks.

I say all of this, by the way, fully aware that there are men who use the MGTOW moniker as an excuse to not take risk at all. Those are not the kind of men I am talking about.

Blogger pnq8787 December 09, 2017 1:02 PM  

The effect of MGTOW on the demographic decline of the "West" is minimal. Men are not the limiting factor in reproduction, women are. MGTOW is simply oberving that many of the men who do marry are sacrificed to the Gynocentric Gods upon the Feminist pyramid. For many men, juice isn't worth the squeeze. The fact that white women aren't having enough children isn't due to MGTOW, it's due to the fact that they don't want to have children. The refusal of MGTOW men to get married amounts to nothing. Even if a high proportion of men die in battle, it has little to no effect on the overall future population. Think of the baby boom after WW2. As individuals we tend to overestimate our own significance.

Blogger Dire Badger December 09, 2017 1:03 PM  

Cecil Henry wrote:MGTOW is a symptom.

Stop the navel gazing and focus on the causes.



It's a symptom of the same cowardice that granted universal suffrage.

That IS the cause.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 1:07 PM  

"There always comes a point when you have to retreat and let things fall apart."

MGTOW is retreating before engaging in any combat on a battlefield, except maybe against the fear in the mind, and surrendering that one.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 09, 2017 1:10 PM  



Sure, if you insist on marrying a 9. Unless you're a throwback to traditional Eagle Scout & Alpha as F, your odds of landing such a rarity are low, and once YOU are too old to ask out 16 year olds, your choices shrink, but only those who are deluded about THEIR OWN value are without hope even today.

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