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Friday, December 15, 2017

Never trust the moderates

They will sell out you and their previously professed principles in favor of their new friends on the other side in a heartbeat, as the True Finns learned the hard way.
The Finns Party, formerly called “True Finns”, rose from obscurity during the euro zone debt crisis with an anti-EU platform, complicating the bloc’s bailout talks with troubled states. It expanded into the second-biggest parliamentary party in 2015 and joined the government, but then saw its support drop due to compromises in the three-party coalition.

This June, the party picked a new hard-line leadership and got kicked out of the government, while more than half of its lawmakers left the party and formed a new group to keep their government seats.

Huhtasaari, 38, who was picked as deputy party leader in June, said voters were still confused after the split-up but that the party would eventually bounce back.

“The game is really brutal. The biggest parties want us to disappear from the political map. No one is in politics looking for friends.”

The Finns party ranks fifth in polls with a support of 9 percent, down from 17.7 percent in 2015 parliamentary election, while the new “Blue Reform” group, which has five ministers, is backed by only 1-2 percent.
This is why moderates can only be permitted in support positions and should never be allowed in positions of leadership, policy-making, or personnel. They love to talk about principles for the reason that they don't actually have any, and use these nonexistent principles as an excuse to break promises and commit betrayals whenever it suits them.

It's not necessary, and it's not possible, to spurn them entirely. There are enough of them that they have to be accepted. And this is fine, this is not a problem, so long as they are not allowed into any positions of power or influence despite their best efforts.

That being said, it won't be surprising if the True Finns end up outperforming their 2015 results, while their short-sighted sell-outs vanish from the political scene.

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45 Comments:

Anonymous Steve December 15, 2017 5:48 AM  

The moderates should call themselves the Partly True Finns or the I Can't Believe It's Not True Finns.

Blogger Desillusionerad December 15, 2017 5:55 AM  

Not to be entirely picky, but the direction of travel is the wrong way - it's more accurate to say that the moderates shouldn't have tolerated the extremists.
Problem is that regardless of the electoral outcome Huhtasaari is too politically toxic to be part of any government.
Any vote for the True Finns will in actual practice be a vote for the left wing.

Anonymous rien December 15, 2017 5:56 AM  

No nationalist organisation should be formed without knowledge of r/K theory. (check the anonymous conservative site)
While the sixteen points are a good handle on the situation, an organisation should have background knowledge beyond this.

Blogger Lovekraft December 15, 2017 6:01 AM  

The Merkel Rule of, being barren and not truly caring about her legacy which one who has children would be concerned about, in full display.

These authoritarians should, however, face the consequences at some point down the road when they realize how little the next generation appreciates them being sold out.

Which begs the next question: how to ensure this happens when they are 'insulated.'

Anonymous Ages December 15, 2017 6:02 AM  

A vote for a moderate is a vote for the left, because moderates ALWAYS break left.

Blogger Cecil Henry December 15, 2017 6:23 AM  

Moderates always have the liberal mentality: you can betray those who you don't need to fear. For Stalin the Menshiviks were the worst enemy, not the traditionalists.

Whites so often think they can succeed on their individual merits ... and they can.

But this individual streak of independence hides the insidious reality of 'diversity':

Our individual virtue enables our collective dispossession
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Utpk_RyKlU

Anonymous Pug December 15, 2017 6:27 AM  

@Desillusionerad

Spoken like a true moderate.

Proud moderate spectator.

Anonymous ZhukovG December 15, 2017 6:30 AM  

Principles are what you will die for. Everything else is just a preference.

Blogger VD December 15, 2017 6:46 AM  

Not to be entirely picky, but the direction of travel is the wrong way - it's more accurate to say that the moderates shouldn't have tolerated the extremists.

Go cuck somewhere else. We know we're not on your side and you're not on ours.

Blogger Desillusionerad December 15, 2017 6:48 AM  

Pug wrote:@Desillusionerad

Spoken like a true moderate.

Proud moderate spectator.



Just out of curiosity are you an American or European?
If you are the former, you are clearly out of your pool, if the latter, you are an idiot.
Absent actual influence, a political party is meaningless - There is no point in putting forth ideologically pure candidates that wont have any influence.

Blogger Jew613 December 15, 2017 6:50 AM  

No one likes moderates, they are cowards who support whoever seems to be winning at any given moment.

Blogger Desillusionerad December 15, 2017 6:56 AM  

VD wrote:

Go cuck somewhere else. We know we're not on your side and you're not on ours.


Really? - Let's pretend the True fins does a great election and gets 25% of the seats.
How much power will they have? 0.00%.
Internal party politics matters much, much, less than in the US VD.
This was not a primary where the 'right' candidate won, because multi party proportional voting systems don't work that way. There is no doubt whatsoever that the True Finns will be roundly ignored by the other parties, just like the Sweden Democrats.
You are applying the axioms of euclidean geometry to non-euclidean geometry.

Blogger Phillip George December 15, 2017 7:09 AM  

The question isn't how to fight moderates. It's how to fight deep state AI algorithm bastards.
Buoyed by there success in stealing Alabama they certainly want the world next.
Extremely right is the only right that works. MEME.

Extremely correct. Extremely right. Extremely poised. Extremely functional. Extremely Alive. Extremely convincing and extremely convinced. Extremely cogent. Extremely articulate. Extremely well mannered. Extreme.

Extreme. Extreme. Extreme.

There. i just said the E word.

naysayers can fuck up and die. Especially if they are AI election thieving algoirthms

Blogger Phillip George December 15, 2017 7:09 AM  

their their

Anonymous CoolHand December 15, 2017 7:12 AM  

@12 Influence in a parliamentary gov't for "unpopular" parties is a step function.

At some point, they will have enough seats that it doesn't matter if nobody else likes them, the other parties will have no choice but to bury the hatchet with them, lest their own influence suddenly drop to zero.

Many things seem impossible right up to the moment that they happen.

Blogger Tupla-J December 15, 2017 7:18 AM  

@2 is correct about one thing - that the nationalists took over the True Finns party, which was originally founded by and for its former head, Timo Soini. Soini was perfectly happy to admit nationalists to his side in name, while never actually taking their side. He was the ultimate moderate and got outed as he chose to cuck instead of doing what the people desperately wished for. So people voted for the nationalist candidate who took over the party and true to his egoism Soini was happy to try and destroy what he created rather than hand it over to someone people could count on. He got his 30 silver.

Our system has devolved into a two party system, much like the Swedish one. It's SD vs. everyone else there, and the Finns against everyone else here. I don't think we'll take simple majority just yet for at least a decade, our people is really slow to grasp the obvious. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for it every way we possibly can.

Anonymous Rien December 15, 2017 7:23 AM  

@Desillusionerad

If you are willing to give up on principles for power, then why have any principles at all?

Because "a little" is better than "none"?

That is exactly the slippery slow that got us where we are!

Anonymous Rien December 15, 2017 7:24 AM  

slow = slope !

Blogger Desillusionerad December 15, 2017 7:25 AM  

@15 sure - For example, the Sweden democrats are probably going to be allowed out of the 'cordon sanitare' next election in Sweden (I fucking hope so at least) - But that's taken them 12 years, even more out of parliament, for Jimmie shape SD into something presentable, I'm sure there were a more right wing option running against him then, if that guy would have won, no one would know who the fuck SD are today.

And again, the True Finns were/are in power right now - They got to influence policy, right now, and consequently Finland haven't marched willingly into genocide like Sweden.
The new hard line wing, they wont be in power and while ideological purity appeals to the party members, it doesn't appeal to the voters or the other parties. All this does is make it more likely for a left wing government to take power.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 15, 2017 7:32 AM  

Moderates are the veil underneath evil hides.
If you don't pick a side the best you can hope for is not becoming collateral damage.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 15, 2017 7:47 AM  

You are applying the axioms of euclidean geometry to non-euclidean geometry.

Soooo..... you posit that nothing ever changes.

Concrete thinking of a concrete mind, ignorant AF of history, much less socionomic theory.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 15, 2017 7:48 AM  

@ Phillip George, or who, whom.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 15, 2017 7:53 AM  

No one seems to understand that the entire world is Pompeii in the shadow of Mt. VesuviDebt.

Bretton Woods ended almost 50 years ago. Its successor is as unstable as nitroglycerin in quantity.

Every bit of political inertia will detonate immediately after markets Hindenburg.

Blogger Desillusionerad December 15, 2017 8:06 AM  

@dc.Sunsets

Nope.
This analogy was about political systems, where the rules for one political system does not relate to the rules of other political systems.
American politics follows a different set of axioms than European.

Blogger tuberman December 15, 2017 8:18 AM  

Yes, correct, moderates should only be allowed lower status until long-time proof of loyalty to effective measures.

Blogger Jonathon Davies December 15, 2017 8:24 AM  

See Exhibit A: Theresa May

Blogger Aeoli December 15, 2017 8:42 AM  

This is why moderates can only be permitted in support positions

They must also be restricted to interchangeable positions, so that their defection would have negligible effect. If they think they're important, it increases the temptation to defect.

positions of leadership, policy-making, or personnel.

These are all the same thing, and efforts to deconstruct this truth are intentional. Personnel is policy, policy is leadership.

Anonymous Reenay December 15, 2017 8:53 AM  

Moderates are like that kid that doesn't try hard until he sees who's the winning team, then joins that team. It might work for a while... until you get your ass kicked for being such a slippery little shit.

Anonymous Neo December 15, 2017 8:57 AM  

"Moderate" by definition is a lack of commitment to any side. Why anybody would trust these people to lead their definitively right-wing or left-wing movement is beyond me.

Also "moderate" politics is dead. In a polarized era, appeasing to the non-committed middle is a waste of time. And it will usually lead to humiliating defeat. Because the non-committed middle will abandon you at the first sign of a controversy. And even if you're non-controversial, they won't bother to get off their ass to vote.

For all the whining about "Both Trump and Hillary are bad", the third party candidates only managed a measly 5% of the vote COMBINED. And look at the social media stats. Committed right/left wingers get huge followings and engagement. Moderate cucks get nothing.

Now these "moderates" may be non-committed due to simple cowardice or due to some noble reason. It doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, appeasing to them is a waste of time.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 15, 2017 9:14 AM  

Moderates exist in the Muddy Middle, a zone of uselessness with a rapidly declining population.

Political triangulation of the middle no longer works when "the middle" is nothing but a deepening chasm between camps that no longer can tolerate each other.

Compromise is loss when the opponent is insane AF. Compromise brought us coerced enabling of self-destructive impulsiveness. Compromise established a State Religion of Self-abnegation in favor of those who hate us.

I'm happy to see the moderates between me and my adversaries; fewer bullets will reach my layer, having found homes in those who can't grasp reality.

Blogger Robert Divinity December 15, 2017 9:16 AM  

They love to talk about principles for the reason that they don't actually have any, and use these nonexistent principles as an excuse to break promises and commit betrayals whenever it suits them.

-----

Now these "moderates" may be non-committed due to simple cowardice or due to some noble reason. It doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, appeasing to them is a waste of time.

The path of least resistance for decades was to placate the communists and tut-tut anyone who didn't embrace globalist utopianism. That increasingly isn't the case. Moderates now are one confused bunch of SOBs as they try to pose as moral superiors without fear of consequences. Once it becomes as painful for them to confront the Right as it is to challenge the left-wing, they will disappear into the mist. That day isn't far off, either.

Anonymous Dividualist December 15, 2017 10:17 AM  

VD

I think it is not as much about trusting moderates as about the specifics of European coalitionary governments - minor coalition partners get always shafted because they cannot get their values properly represented in the government. This happens to libs as well, like the LibDems in the UK, there is just no reason why anyone should vote for them after the coalition with the Tories, that government represented Tory politics, people who want Tory politics will vote Tory, people who don't want Tory politics will vote Labour but nobody has any reason to vote LibDem.

It is just the logic of coalitionary governments.

Generally speaking the wise thing to do is to never enter coalitions as a minority partner, just support them from the outside, and demand high price for every support. That way you don't get the blame. Always be major coalition partner or stay outside.

The problem is even "far" right parties like to have some sweet, sweet power, positions and money for them and thus the lure to enter government as a minor partner is too strong. But it destroys them.

We see the same thing in Austria now. Kurz and Strache are negotiating about things like smoking bans and family welfare. Strache clearly cannot get any serious invasion-stopping in the agreement. So what is the point? Strache enters the government because he want positions, money and power but basically nothing of a "far" right problem will get implemented, so I am fairly sure they are destroyed and next time "far" right voters will find a new party for them. Which I would not even mind as Strache was never a reliable guy.

Blogger tweell December 15, 2017 10:34 AM  

Hakkaa paalle!

Anonymous Avalanche December 15, 2017 10:51 AM  

My wise friend, after I sent him a culled selection of y'all's comments, writes:

The information on the Finns was very interesting and the lesson drawn is critically important.

Moderates do "always break left" as one commentator said.

The worst feature of being in these coalition governments is that you get the blame but don't really have the power.

Hitler was right to reject out of hand any idea of serving in a coalition government until his party could be in charge and actually lead the government. Only then did he agree to a coalition.

The Republican Party in America is much like a coalition government.

The "angry Whites" make up 2/3rds of their votes but the Head Table is run by sociopaths committed to the System and to the 1%.

What Whites need (termination of immigration, expulsion of immigrants and their families, trade protection, an end to affirmative action, shutting down anti-White hate propaganda disguised as "toleration" and "education", purging the FBI and other political police of anti-Whites) is subordinated to tax gifts to the mega-rich and encouragement of more immigration so as to enable the robber barons to pay less to workers. This reeking dinner is disguised by massive spices of anti-abortion talk (talk only), anti-gay marriage sabre rattling, pointless ad hoc attacks on unimportant Democratic celebrities like Michelle Obama and so on.

We get even less from our coalition government than the True Finns got.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 15, 2017 11:45 AM  

@33 A fan of Eric Flint, eh?

@34 +1 Insightful.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 15, 2017 11:52 AM  

We get even less from our coalition government than the True Finns got.

Debateable, but we're really only arguing about the difference between nothing and less than nothing anyway. As for the Finns, they has more liberty as the Duchy of Finland under the Russian Empire than they do as an okrug of the EUSSR. There is no independence without leaving the EUSSR, and as has been seen with the British okrug, this is not allowed regardless of how the zeks vote. St. Breivik was right.

Anonymous Bad Attitude December 15, 2017 12:02 PM  

When I read the headline, I thought the article was going to be about John McCain or Marco Rubio.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 15, 2017 12:10 PM  

The underlying problem we see with folks like the True Finns and other nationalists is that they continue to believe in the system. They fail to understand that the system has been rigged for decades by the cloud people and their nomenklatura, and that time is rapidly running out as the dindu and kebabs keep coming - in preparation for the cloud people's final solution for the natives. This is something Breivik understood. The only way to participate in such rigged systems to to 'game the system'. In other words, a Cloward-Piven strategy on steroids. The objective is not to participate in the cloud-people's fake representative regime, but to make it collapse as soon as possible, because the faster it goes down the greater the odds for the targets of genocide to survive. Worse is better.

Blogger DonReynolds December 15, 2017 2:24 PM  

Moderates are the worst sort of salesmen because they never manage to sell at retail. They think salesmanship is cutting the price to the bone, even if it cuts their own commission as long as they make the sale. I have zero respect for any salesman who cuts the price. The best salesmen I have ever seen make the sale without gimmics, without gifts, without cash rebates, without discounts. They sell the product, just short of holding the customer down by the hair. They do not beg for the sale, they make the customer want the product. Those are salesmen.

The only thing WORSE than the moderates who will bargain away everything in order to make a deal are the WAIT AND SEERS. The Wait And Seers will rob your organization of every ounce of initiative, insist on complete inaction, waiting for the very last moment before doing anything. Never let the Wait And Seers decide when to begin, because there is never a good time for them. They love to plan but nothing ever gets done, because they are too busy waiting until all choices are exhausted and the obvious is stomping their eyes out. Wait and See is not a plan.

Blogger jaakkeli December 15, 2017 3:53 PM  

@2 : N"it's more accurate to say that the moderates shouldn't have tolerated the extremists."

Such bullshit. That's literally what happened here - the party leadership realized that they're never going to get cabinet seats for themselves if they maintain opposition to gay marriage, population replacement and the European Union so they proceeded to transform the party into a "regular", "non-toxic" party.

The party rebelled against this and the leadership was prepared for it by dumping their own party and setting up a new one that literally only exists so that the former True Finn leaders can sit in as cabinet ministers in the government as formal members of a "political party" that only exists on paper and has no organization.

The distinction is not between "moderates" and "extremists", the "moderates" are simply sellouts who dropped all their stated beliefs and campaign promises so that they could get well-paying cabinet positions and the "extremists" are the people who kept the party line which is actually very mild alt-lite stuff about how "immigrants need to adjust to our values" and such.

Literally people who had spent 20 years building up a political career as the main opponents of immigration in the country got elected and then once in government they exploded immigration to levels not seen ever before. People who opposed gay marriage for 20 years legalized it and are now going in front of TV cameras to speak about how the translaw is the next social justice cause that they'll support.

The only way you're not "toxic" in this media climate is if you're 100 % on board with the social justice agenda. Huhtasaari could go "moderate" AKA pro-mass-immigration, pro-LBGT, pro-EU and drop the "toxic" label like the old leadership did but why? What would be the point of voting for her then?

Blogger Eric Slate December 15, 2017 5:28 PM  

It's a sad development for society when people who protect the nation are thought of as extremists...

Blogger DonReynolds December 15, 2017 5:55 PM  

Eric Slate wrote:It's a sad development for society when people who protect the nation are thought of as extremists...

In case you have not heard, being a Patriot is considered extremism. Among the Mexican militants, being a Patriot and respecting the Rule of Law is definitely extremism. They said I was "a conservative, a rightist, and therefore a racist". (I never considered Mexican a race....nor is illegal alien, or drug smuggler, or criminal, or Hispanic.)

Blogger Desillusionerad December 15, 2017 6:24 PM  

@40

Timo Soini founded the party - Therefore the 'moderates' can't have been 'infiltrating' the party.
See @16.

jaakkeli wrote:Literally people who had spent 20 years building up a political career as the main opponents of immigration in the country got elected and then once in government they exploded immigration to levels not seen ever before. People who opposed gay marriage for 20 years legalized it and are now going in front of TV cameras to speak about how the translaw is the next social justice cause that they'll support.

The only way you're not "toxic" in this media climate is if you're 100 % on board with the social justice agenda. Huhtasaari could go "moderate" AKA pro-mass-immigration, pro-LBGT, pro-EU and drop the "toxic" label like the old leadership did but why? What would be the point of voting for her then?


In a coalition government you have to compromise - look at Sweden for the future.
Besides, this is a bit misleading to start with her, as the split was precipitated by the election of Jussi Halla-aho, I kinda like him - But he is to toxic to deal with as far as the other parties are concerned.
To a large extent here, it's not a policy problem, it's a person problem -

Blogger The Chortling December 16, 2017 8:20 PM  

Crazy post on FB by an IBM executive

Vijay Vijayasankar
Chandler, AZ ·
Nearly two decades ago in LA , there was an Indian store I and a bunch of Indian colleagues used to shop in . The shopkeeper was an older man from the same state in India - Kerala - that I am from . He would ask any new Indian face the same question “Are you a citizen or on an H1B?”. We were all on H1Bs at the time - and he would immediately start on the “you are the reason my kids can’t find a job” tirade at the top of his voice - with the same thick Indian accent that we (The H1B bad guys) had . Then at work we used to hear from second generation Chinese Americans the same “you are the reason we won’t get raises”.

It has always amused and amazed me that naturalized immigrants and their kids can forget their past so darn fast and be all up in arms against the next wave of immigrants. Remember this is all legal immigration we are talking about here - tax paying , non law breaking , highly skilled people .

Many of these naturalized folks got to this country on H1Bs because American companies brought them over from China and India and so on as part of outsourcing efforts . Globalization led them to have the life they lead now . But the moment their passports changed - they become super against globalization .
It doesn’t make me angry in the least - but it does make me quite sad when I see this behavior.

Blogger Randell Gary December 20, 2017 5:35 PM  

Worse than useless, as they are. They'll say anything for a pat on the head and name recognition.

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