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Sunday, January 28, 2018

Mailvox: Lessons in Gamma, extended edition

Back in October 2016, a website designer named Allen Ayler deigned to offer his assistance to Infogalactic. I turned him down because I did not like the way he approached me. After he angrily demanded on Gab that I make our email discussions a matter for public discussion, I did so. This was how it ended, or so I thought.
Guys, I admitted already that my initial "dignify me wit a response" was too pushy, however it wasn't an insult like his response was when he proceeded to throw at me by insinuating I am a "diva big dog." I took offense to that, and proceeded to unload and make myself look ridiculous. I apologize for my unprofessionalism. I was not necessarily approaching this like I typically do, since in my mind I wasn't "applying" for a job. Regardless, I should have kept my demeanor and offense in check.

That being said, I will retain that I have zero interest in working with anyone who says,  "If you can't deal with the fact that the big dogs on this project are insanely busy, you won't fit in. There simply isn't space for divas and egos on the team" to people trying to help. It's a completely asinine and hypocritical response, and was uncalled for. I am honest enough to admit my fault, yet all I hear is unaccountability and yet more insults from Vox. I can tell you, if you didn't insinuate I was a diva ego we would be square and I would never have popped off. I would have apologized for my pushy request for a response after getting ignored and dicked around for two weeks.

But let me dissect this a bit, you say an alpha just doesn't respond to gammas, and gammas just use baseless insults and never stop messaging looking for revenge, right? How does that differ from you posting my info so you can have your biased minions seek me out and attack me? Basically you are taking the weight of the gamma work off your shoulders and having every here do it for you. Gammas use baseless insults, but nearly everyone who simply disagrees with you, you call a gamma, yet that is not a baseless insult in and of itself?

Everyone clearly sides with Vox here, yet I didn't open up the dialogue with insults. I may have been a tad pushy after getting ignored for two weeks, but at least it was not an insult.

Another thing, in the professional field, when someone responds to you by saying, "If you can't deal with the fact I am busy then..." Basically what it says is, "I am important than you." And when you have people offering to give their time and services way for free, it's pretty offensive.

So yea, you dicked me around and ignored me for two weeks, my request for a response was not an insult (but yes it was pushy), but your reply actually was insulting, and oozed of self-importance, as I have outlined. Now all my responses after your reply was totally unprofessional. I make no lies or excuses about that. And yes I do regret the way I asked for a response, but not because I want to join the team, but because we are playing on the same #MAGA team, and we really need to stick together at a time like this instead of create divide. Now, if there is any empathy and rationality in you, Vox, then you will accept my apology and hopefully at least acknowledge that your response to my pushy request for a reply was also a bit too harsh. That is all I ask for.

Also, since you proved me wrong about your website traffic, I will humbly remove my false review claim that you are being dishonest about it. I really do try to be a man of integrity, it's too bad we got off like this. I hope this gesture can help show that.
To which I replied on Oct 26, 2016: No worries. It's over and done with as far as I'm concerned. I also publicly accepted his apology at Alpha Game.

But of course, nothing is ever over when a Gamma is involved. Hadley wins his bet. Today, 15 freaking months later, I received this pair of emails in quick succession, both completely out of the blue.
\ugh... hey deluded big dog, your site looks horrid. LMFAO. And your wife is a slut cunt bitch, btw.
Cheers,
Allen Ayler

How mentally and emotionally stunted to you have to be to make it part of your life's missions to paint yourself as an "alpha"? LOL still hilarious to this day.
Cheers again,
your #1 gamma, fucking dork child.
How very professional. The underlying reason here is that Gammas never forget a crime against them, and by crime, they mean anything that causes them to feel humiliation. And once humiliated, they never stop looking to seek revenge for it and take the shot that will restore the balance of the universe. Needless to say, I feel entirely justified about my decision to keep this gentleman well the hell away from Infogalactic and every other project in which I have any involvement whatsoever. This is why an understanding of human socio-sexuality is so important. You simply cannot permit Gammas in any position of importance and it is vital for every project leader to avoid relying upon them for any critical matter.

The problem is that while Gammas are often very knowledgeable and detail-oriented subject matter experts, they are socially fragile, emotionally volatile, and can seldom bear to take any criticism or endure any reaction to their advice or assistance other than enthusiastic acceptance. To make matters worse, they are often ambitious and pursue responsibility, only to shirk it once they have it and try to avoid making decisions or actually doing anything due to their crippling fear of failure. Think about John Scalzi and his successful decade-long pursuit of a big book contract, which was promptly followed by his inability to deliver books on the contract's schedule. That is a textbook example of Gamma success gone awry; if events proceed according to form, Scalzi will probably blow up the publishing arrangement in some way long before delivering the final book.

Gamma is not an insult per se. It is a clearly defined, demonstrably observable male behavioral pattern. The relevant fact of the matter here is that this pattern of behavior is familiar and predictable, because that is simply how gammas tend to react in certain specific situations. And the reason that gammas get called out so often for it here is because non-gammas don't behave this way and therefore don't require being addressed in a similar manner.

Every gamma would do well to recall four things:
  • You don't get any say in how other people treat you. You can only control how you respond to it. People will judge YOU by that response, not the people to whom you are responding.
  • When angry or upset, keep your mouth shut until you cool down.
  • When you screw up, stop digging. Just stop.
  • Everyone knows you aren't laughing no matter how vehemently you insist you are.
And if you ever wondered why I neither like nor tolerate Gammas, this should suffice to explain why. They simply cause more trouble than anyone can possibly be worth.

Labels: ,

124 Comments:

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 28, 2018 11:07 AM  

I'm sure Spacebunny swooned with joy at that steamy pile of compliments.

Anonymous SticksandStones January 28, 2018 11:08 AM  

Wow. That's a LOT of rent-free living in someone else's head.

Now I understand every stalker, ever.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 28, 2018 11:11 AM  

It's funny to note how the Internet allows Gamma types to flourish. You can't send messages like that to people standing in front of you. Only on the Internet.

Anonymous Baseball Savant January 28, 2018 11:11 AM  

I don't think Infogalactic looks bad. I quite like it.

Blogger GreenEyedJinn January 28, 2018 11:14 AM  

Huh. I wonder how all those woke-looking women on Allen's FB page appreciate the misogyny of "your wife is a slut cunt bitch"?

Anonymous daddynichol January 28, 2018 11:14 AM  

15 months of marinating in his anger and all he can muster is just two blurbs? After reading his long initial screed, I would think he would have written a book length diatribe. Like Scalzi, his quantity and quality decline over time.

Anonymous roadrage January 28, 2018 11:15 AM  

Question.
If someone IS a gamma, or at any rate displays said characteristics, is there any way that it can be fixed? Does repentance and restoration figure at all?

Blogger VD January 28, 2018 11:25 AM  

If someone IS a gamma, or at any rate displays said characteristics, is there any way that it can be fixed? Does repentance and restoration figure at all?

Yes. First stop lying to others. Then stop lying to yourself. Then start achieving something, anything.

Anonymous ZhukovG January 28, 2018 11:34 AM  

@roadrage: I am no expert on the subject, but I suspect that by adulthood or perhaps even adolescence once place in the hierarchy is fixed.

That said, by honestly recognizing your place, you can then learn to modify your behavior in more positive ways.

A favorite verse that speaks to me on the subject is the following:


2 Corinthians 10:5(KJV)

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You cannot help the first feeling that you have about something, but you can control what you do with it.

Blogger Dave January 28, 2018 11:42 AM  

they never stop looking to seek revenge for it and take the shot that will restore the balance of the universe

That was it? That was the ultimate revenge he's been saving up for 15 months? FAIL.

Blogger BlowMe January 28, 2018 11:43 AM  

From Bittergammaboy's webpage:

"Currently residing in Portland, OR..."

We're shocked.

"My work ethic is friendly and collaborative..."

Clearly Why, I'd bet that right now Vox is regretting his decision to decline your offer.

Anonymous Dave January 28, 2018 11:43 AM  

they never stop looking to seek revenge for it and take the shot that will restore the balance of the universe

That was it? That was the ultimate revenge he's been saving up for 15 months? FAIL.

Anonymous Rigel Kent January 28, 2018 11:48 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:@roadrage: I am no expert on the subject, but I suspect that by adulthood or perhaps even adolescence once place in the hierarchy is fixed.

If this were true, then studying game would be useless. Changing your place hierarchy is the whole point of Game. It can be hard, and it's probably harder for gammas than anyone else due to their desire to not admit to being wrong, ever. But it is possible.

Blogger Koanic January 28, 2018 11:51 AM  

The worst thing about this is that he appears to actually like Blippi.

Blogger Nate January 28, 2018 11:54 AM  

Absolutely correct. gammas lie because they are a lie. All of their self worth is based on lies. Deep down they know this. The first step to fixing this is to do something honest. Accomplish some small honest thing and start basing your self worth on that rather than the lie.

Blogger wreckage January 28, 2018 11:56 AM  

Embrace failure. Pursue courageous failure. Reject pridefullness in favour of courage. Accept other people and do not expect them to fill emotional needs you yourself can't really articulate anyway; be grateful for what esteem or affection you get - thankful and surprised.

That's my experience, anyway, dealing with proto-gamma emotions.

Blogger Johnny January 28, 2018 11:56 AM  

but I suspect that by adulthood or perhaps even adolescence once place in the hierarchy is fixed.

The rule in the past in the US was that you could manage one step up in the hierarchy, and only very rarely more than than. Old Abe Lincoln was a huge exception. Other places most people were locked into their class.

Blogger Mint January 28, 2018 11:57 AM  

Dear sweet Ganesha, he sounds like a rejected girl. Brokenhearted but still wants to gain your attention any way she can.

On several email interactions with VD, there were times he was surprisingly prompt and replying in relatively short time. Surprising because I know how many projects he handles at once at the same time. There were times when I didn't get any replies. Well, the world doesn't end, life goes on. That's it.

What a broken world we live in when people like this man going around demanding attention from a man known for his cruelty artistry. Mr Ayler hasn't make peace with himself and his place in this world. When he has, he would not have needed others to reaffirm his self worth.

Blogger seeingsights January 28, 2018 11:57 AM  

I notice that Gammas and worse insult Vox Day's hot wife.

Blogger wreckage January 28, 2018 11:59 AM  

Oh, the other thing is, drop the "I have nothing to prove" lie.
Of course you have something to prove. Over and over again, you have to prove the world wouldn't be that much better off if you were dead. Don't try to will the question away, don't try to suppress that fear. Embrace it as an emotional engine of achievement.

Anonymous ZhukovG January 28, 2018 12:01 PM  

@seeingsights: The unreformed Gamma stews in a pot of jealousy.

Anonymous lpdbw January 28, 2018 12:02 PM  

I feel entirely justified about my decision to keep this gentleman well the hell away from Infogalactic

"Gentleman" is not the word that comes to mind after his comments about Spacebunny. "Slimy toad" might be a better choice.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 28, 2018 12:03 PM  

I'm going with the 4th beer. What's the over/under on that?

On "how to stop being Gamma", there's also a physical component. Exercise and regular fasting will help significantly with that aspect.

Anonymous O.C. January 28, 2018 12:03 PM  

WTF? Was this guy on drugs when he wrote this or off his meds? I honestly can't tell.

Blogger wreckage January 28, 2018 12:04 PM  

@18 they have to. They can't say "well, Vox is smart as hell, and a bodybuilder, and from a pretty wealthy family, so yuh, that's how it goes. My GF is awesome though. In my league and awesome."

If they were capable of that they'd be right back in Delta territory straight away. Hell, some of them would have a shot at Alpha if they weren't so obsessed with being Alpha, and being seen to be Alpha.

OpenID markstoval January 28, 2018 12:20 PM  

That shot at Spacebunny was just uncalled for and slimy. I follow her on Twitter and find her to be a very nice person --- even her insults are ladylike.

I also find any "man" who goes after a fellow's family to be despicable no matter the circumstances.

Blogger Johnny January 28, 2018 12:20 PM  

After all this time I would think there was some triggering event that brought Vox to mind. If the guy is as petty as is alleged here, it could be he is having some problem that was predicted by Vox.

I wonder how well he gets along with other people. With staff. Depending on how you read it there is a hint of a problem in the now old response.

>>Everyone clearly sides with Vox here... (A couple of paragraphs later.) we really need to stick together at a time like this instead of create divide. (Addressed to Vox, but possably reflecting difficulties generally.)

I wish him well in his GAB project, but it would seem he has too much stuff going on for a working relationship.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket January 28, 2018 12:21 PM  

I would go with looking glass' suggestion. That's his fourth beer courage coming out. Identifying gammas is a positive skips so you can get the hell away from them and their bizarre persecuted secret king complex as quickly as possible.

Hell my dad is a huge gamma. Really fucked up my childhood. Was great finding alpha game and bring able to label his behavior. Before that I just called him incredibly passive aggressive.

Blogger VD January 28, 2018 12:23 PM  

I also find any "man" who goes after a fellow's family to be despicable no matter the circumstances.

I tend to agree except in the case of reprisals. Reprisals are always justified.

Anonymous bw1 January 28, 2018 12:29 PM  

"After all this time I would think there was some triggering event that brought Vox to mind."

This is what happens when someone who just can't let something go has a moment of lowered inhibitions. Others have alluded to the fourth beer.

That's why it so resembles the voicemails that result from drunk dialing by a disgruntled ex.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd January 28, 2018 12:31 PM  

They should accept that everybody can't be alpha. It's not so bad being a retainer if you have a worthy lord. There's protection in that that allows you the security to pursue your own goals.
It's far easier and to me more desirable to be a retainer, but I guess if you've never achieved anything on your own, you don't have the validation necessary to loyally acquiesce to another's authority or acknowledge another's superiority.

Blogger Koanic January 28, 2018 12:38 PM  

Why should man, who is base, base his self-worth on the deeds of his vanity during his days under the sun? I suppose Nebuchadnezzar had vegan pride.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket January 28, 2018 12:38 PM  

It is always amusing to see low SMV men assert totally incorrect assumptions about high SMV women. It's pure ego protection.

Such as the hot women are dumb trope. The assertion that there is an inverse correlation between hotness and intelligence. The opposite is actually true. Dumb women lack the future time orientation to diet and exercise properly so they get fat, then to express their inner pain and mental illness they dye their hair blue. Intelligent women are smart enough to both make themselves highly attractive and to understand how this will benefit them.

Low SMV men will make similar claims about attractive women and promiscuity. "That hot women is a slut!", which again if nothing more than blatant pathetic ego protection. Hot women end up with fewer partners over their lifetime than fat blue haired freaks and the explanation is quite simple. Men are the gatekeepers of relationships. An intelligent attractive woman is not a woman that an intelligent attractive men is going to let get away. Men lock those women down.

The fat blue haired future car ladies? Sure most of them are bangeable up until around age 24, but guys do realize that true commitment means you would be stuck with that freak for decades and decades after she spoils. So they get pumped and dumped.

Highly attractive women do indeed have it all. People just want to believe that everyone is "equal" so there is some giant karma balancing act. Surely that hot woman must be borderline retarded, now we're equal! Ridiculous but amusing to watch.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener January 28, 2018 12:47 PM  

Dude needs a Snickers bar.

Anonymous Weak January 28, 2018 12:51 PM  

The Delta Man series of posts at Alpha Game are an excellent roadmap for a gamma who wants to reform. It's very difficult to do. As an adult, that gamma mindset is hard wired, and present in almost every behavior. Also, everyone in the gammas life will reinforce the old gamma behaviors, because that's what they know.

It takes not just a desire to change, but also a strong mindset and courage to fire people from their life that try to drag them back to gammahood. And of course, if they had a strong mindset and courage, they wouldn't be gammas in the first place. So it's very difficult.

Pity the gamma. Be patient and helpful with the aspiring delta. There will be backslides.

Hopefully Delta Man comes back. His posts were life changing.

Anonymous Huh January 28, 2018 1:00 PM  

You printed his emails and dissected them 15 months ago. Why would he think you wouldn't do the same to his latest outburst? Is he a masochist? Or does the Secret King have a way to imagine that you printing his pathetic insults makes him The Winner?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 28, 2018 1:03 PM  

"Hell, some of them would have a shot at Alpha if they weren't so obsessed with being Alpha, and being seen to be Alpha."

Shortcuts through deception have a way of biting you in the tush.

"This is what happens when someone who just can't let something go has a moment of lowered inhibitions."

See, it has to be either that or he's off his meds. Anything else just blows my mind with the random inanity.

"I suppose Nebuchadnezzar had vegan pride."

You lost me on that one. Weren't old 'Nezzar and his chosen the carnivores in the club?

"Such as the hot women are dumb trope. The assertion that there is an inverse correlation between hotness and intelligence"

Hmmn, depends. Definitely seen some hot dumb women. Like all tropes, however, it's not necessarily even generally true. Some are legitimately dumb because they're adapted to the leeway pretty much everyone gives them. That being said, most men aren't looking for particular intelligence in a woman anyway, so it's not even an effective insult.

"The opposite is actually true. Dumb women lack the future time orientation to diet and exercise properly so they get fat"

I'll agree that overweight women do not have a tendency toward intelligence.

"Low SMV men will make similar claims about attractive women and promiscuity. "That hot women is a slut!"

I'd be more inclined to say that they'll make unsubstantiated claims to that effect, and gossip continually about the substantiated ones. Telling someone in private "dude you don't want her she has a track record" can happen without being gamma. Reminds me of a lambda buddy I had in the military. Everybody warned him, but he didn't listen and got taken for a ride.

Blogger Dave January 28, 2018 1:03 PM  

fourth beer

Fourth beer?!? So you're saying he drinks like a girl?

Blogger tuberman January 28, 2018 1:08 PM  

Major problem with being Gamma is one gets cut off from any growth. Many teenage guys go through this, and do get over it, as they find out that they do not know everything, despite making, what they thought was great efforts. Humbly learning through failure, is an anti-fragile way to check for Truth again. Chaos becomes a wake up call.

This is also where a high or at least decent IQ comes in, as in, at a certain level, smart people are challenged by people smarter, or more experienced, or that see deeper than they do. They can respond by looking deeper themselves, rather than attacking and blaming.

Blogger Doug Cranmer January 28, 2018 1:10 PM  

That's quite good. Thank you.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker January 28, 2018 1:11 PM  

Speaking of Infogalactic, how is that project going?

Blogger Koanic January 28, 2018 1:22 PM  

> You lost me on that one.

Daniel 4.

Anonymous English Tom January 28, 2018 1:22 PM  

Surely everyone can understand how important it is to restore the balance of the universe.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 28, 2018 1:22 PM  

"This is also where a high or at least decent IQ comes in, as in, at a certain level, smart people are challenged by people smarter, or more experienced, or that see deeper than they do."

I'd tend to disagree on that count. There's a threshold above where that would seem to kick in, but there's also a reason for Vox's midwit category. Smart enough to expect to be the smartest in the room, but not smart enough to keep them aware that that's not always going to be the case, and even if it is it doesn't necessarily matter.

Blogger haus frau January 28, 2018 1:23 PM  

"hey deluded big dog, your site looks horrid. LMFAO. And your wife is a slut cunt bitch, btw.
Cheers,"

So what exactly did he expect the outcome from this bitchy little email to be? 15 months after the fact. It is a foreign mentality and I'm baffled why he sent this. Does he envision VD crying into his wine over this? He knows from experience that his emails will be published and open for public criticism.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 28, 2018 1:27 PM  

"Daniel 4."

Well played.

Blogger pyrrhus January 28, 2018 1:30 PM  

Unhinged would be a mild description of this jerk...

Blogger rws January 28, 2018 1:32 PM  

@44

When you are desperate for attention any attention will do.

Blogger Silly but True January 28, 2018 1:39 PM  

Don't you know. Allen...
Thinks it's time for change;
Wants to be an activist;
Wants to speak his mind...
https://www.behance.net/gallery/20810239/VoteOverIt-

Blogger mickthequick1976 January 28, 2018 1:39 PM  

Not as well versed on the Gamma stuff as I should be, but to insult another man's wife like that is beyond the pale. Makes me think he is mentally ill and should spend some time in psych ward.

Blogger pdwalker January 28, 2018 1:43 PM  

Wow. Just... wow.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener January 28, 2018 1:54 PM  

OTOH maybe this is Allen's roundabout way of putting in a job application at Google.

Blogger tuberman January 28, 2018 1:54 PM  

43. AA

"I'd tend to disagree on that count. There's a threshold above where that would seem to kick in, but there's also a reason for Vox's midwit category. Smart enough to expect to be the smartest in the room, but not smart enough to keep them aware that that's not always going to be the case, and even if it is it doesn't necessarily matter."

Yes but, I am talking a different level than mid-wit. The level I'm talking about already hides intelligence from most mid-wits, as he would be left out or even persecuted. They learn to speak and interact on a buddy level at a young age with sports, adventures, and so forth. Some of their intelligence still leaks out to "friends," but they are cool enough to be acceptable, as they become good at sports, and games, and even add to adventures with their imagination. But they are always selected second or third for team sports and not first, and they know it. They continue to read, and pursue mathematics, and etc, as they enjoy them, but keep such work to themselves.

When these genius and semi-genius IQ types get out in the broader world they soon learn that many have gone further than them, and they are not threatened, as they see these as possible ways to advance further in their searches. People who have read lots of intelligent people, already know their are people that have abilities beyond themselves, and even search out material that will add to this.

Mid-wits do get stuck, through envy usually, but not even all mid-wits are Gammas. The mid-wits do fit in with normal people easier, as they don't get the envy.

This thing goes way beyond just IQ, with curiosity, research, depth, and experience in many dimensions are factors, but without high IQ's most will do further work only for narcissistic personal contradictions. Mid-wits get caught up in creating high positions in life, and leave behind Truth as a major desire.

The efforts to get a PhD in Social Sciences, or to be a MD of some kind, usually means that you "play the game," which is okay, as long as you keep perspective. Most people looking for a position at the highest levels, sell their souls to whatever is the current trends. They have no perspective, or overview of the whole forest, and will attack those who do.

Blogger Johnny January 28, 2018 2:01 PM  

>>I suppose Nebuchadnezzar had vegan pride.

Old Nebu would kill you if you requested an audience and he disapproved. Not the sort who would worry his own self image.

Anonymous Jo January 28, 2018 2:06 PM  

[b]To make matters worse, they are often ambitious and pursue responsibility, only to shirk it once they have it and try to avoid making decisions or actually doing anything due to their crippling fear of failure.[/b]

This is an interesting insight. An inflated sense of self coupled with a lack of courage.

How would you recommend the Gamma overcome the crippling fear?

(I imagine your answer might be: by failing. But then, if that is indeed an answer, how does the Gamma push past the initial crippling fear to fail for the sake of lesson?)

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 28, 2018 2:11 PM  

"When you are desperate for attention any attention will do."

"A kiss with a fist is good for some. A kiss with a fist is better than none."

Anonymous Philalethes January 28, 2018 2:11 PM  

Sad. Very sad. Having had to struggle with some Gamma traits in my own personality — though fortunately I've never self-destructed like this poor guy — I sympathize with the Gamma plight. It isn't as if the Gamma consciously decided to be that way; it's usually (always?) a product of influences and experiences early in life that form the personality long before any kind of self-reflection is an option.

Of course, that's not an excuse — as my Zen teacher once said, "There are no excuses." (This was a few years before his behavior became so flagrant that he got caught — and began offering excuses, which he hasn't stopped in 34 years.) But there are reasons, and if the Gamma type can see them, he can stop trying to defend an indefensible position, and begin to rebuild his personality on a more functional plan.

Actually, his earlier essay, though overlong, sounded at least semi-reasonable. These latest messages, however, are completely off-base. My first thought was, somebody hacked his email? Or maybe some traumatic incident has set him off?

Hmm… a little research: "Currently residing in Portland, OR, with my awesome wife and our two amazing kids…." As somebody noted, Portlandia does not augur well for sanity over time. He appears to have at least alt-right sympathies (for instance, he posts an Alex Jones video on his Facebook page) — which would make Portland even harder for him, especially if he needs external validation.

Otoh, his Facebook postings tend toward bromides of the sort that the SJW mind is fond of, which does not suggest intellectual depth. Is there such a thing as a right-wing SJW? There certainly is, though I don't know have a name for the type.

There are photos at his Facebook of him with a woman; one dated 2013 has a comment from a friend that his girlfriend is pretty. Well, sort of, but apparently she did take his name when they married in September 2014 (according to his Facebook).

His last Facebook posting is of one of their children, in August 2015; nothing since then. His wife's Facebook is up to date, with lots of pictures of her and the two boys, but none of him since 2014 (her very first post, in 2009, declares she met him that year). Under Relationships, she says nothing about being married. I also note that, from the dating on the pictures, she must have been pregnant nearly to term in September 2014 — which his Facebook says was when they were married.

One of the photos (on her page, not his) looks sort of like a wedding picture (well, it's from her brother's wedding, she says); she looks proprietary, he looks proud if maybe a little scared.

Am I detecting a pattern here — unfortunately very common these days? A possible reason why he is presently losing it, having perhaps suffered a major blow to his fragile self-esteem?

I feel like I should apologize for looking so closely at the personal lives of these people — but they did post all this stuff for the world to see. Sad.

Looking at his website, if that's really his work, he has real talent — and should concentrate on doing well what he does well, and feeling good about it, to start the necessary rebuilding.

As for the slur on Spacebunny, that is utterly unconscionable, not to mention utterly inapplicable. She's about as far from being any of those things as any woman I know of.

Anonymous Godfrey January 28, 2018 2:12 PM  

God how I feel better about myself after reading this.

Blogger tuberman January 28, 2018 2:29 PM  

O.T. The Will Caligan's Comics Campaign is less than $4K away from Book 3 being put out, and with an additional $7.5K it will be fully colored on the inside.

Blogger BlowMe January 28, 2018 2:30 PM  

"And your wife is a slut cunt bitch, btw."

Notice how he did not include the adjective "ugly" in the list of Spacebunny's fictitious attributes.

Looking at Ayler's wife, you'll know why:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209548290879861&set=ecnf.1104919156&type=3&theater

I get the feeling Ayler's wife's attempts at sluttery would be about as successful as her husband's attempts to get Vox to recruit him.

Blogger Snowdens Jacket January 28, 2018 2:34 PM  

This makes me very happy I do not have a Facebook or any social media presence what so ever.

Blogger Cubby8126 January 28, 2018 2:38 PM  

I imagine hitting the gym and getting jacked is a sure fire way to deal with any amount of gamma.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants January 28, 2018 2:47 PM  

Someone waited 15 months to email a comeback to you? Why would you ever let someone know they ever crossed your mind, again? The ultimate dismissal is never thinking of someone, ever again. That's quite embarrassing for a grown man to act in such a manner.

Blogger tublecane January 28, 2018 2:55 PM  

The most interesting part to me is the idea that he's only acting like a diva because you called him a diva, rather than you accurately noticing his diva-ness. Reminds me of accusing someone of being in denial, to which it's perfectly acceptable to respond: "I am not!" Though that is funny, superficially.

If, however, you go on to say, "I swear, I'm not. I am so not in denial. No denial here. No, no, no. No, I tell you! How could anyone possibly think I'm in denial when I'm not? I'm just not. Not, not, not!" someone might get the idea that the person who brought it up was on to something.

Blogger Scott C January 28, 2018 2:59 PM  

Vox, didn't you say that you were bullied by gammas in junior high school, back when you were an omega? You have quite a history with these creatures it seems.

Anonymous Sheiko29 January 28, 2018 3:10 PM  

*I suspect that by adulthood or perhaps even adolescence once place in the hierarchy is fixed.*

This has certainly been my observation. Reinforced by a recent 10-year HS reunion.

*I imagine hitting the gym and getting jacked is a sure fire way to deal with any amount of gamma.*

I'd imagine ANY sort of objective accomplishment would help (no, video games do not count). But lifting has the added benefit of visibly changing a person for the better. Any able-bodied guy under 45 should at least get to a 1000 lbs total. Many 17 year-old lineman/linebackers do that with relative ease. Just don't forget the prehab!

Anonymous GenXsly January 28, 2018 3:22 PM  

This post is timely, because of a recent email I got from my elder brother. I've long suspected my older (situation-ally Alpha) brother is really just another gamma with high IQ and brilliance in a few areas. He does well when in charge of areas that he rightfully knows how to run--but he gets DEEP passive-aggressive Gamma with guys--as it turns out--like me (military vet, cop, bjj, etc) in othe areas. I've always been his younger "kid brother", but I noticed that he goes emotionally off the deep end at times--with a little less vitriol but all the same emotion and anger you see in the original emails VD posted. Even if the words are different, it's the same substance.

He's in his late 50s now, and I was thinking of VD's advice. But how to you tell a otherwise successful guy he's gamma? and how can he change? Should he change? I wouldn't be invested except that man, sometimes I just want to tell him, "man, you're my brother and I love you, but FFS, STFU and learn..yes, even sometimes from me" My guess is, other Alpha's or even successful betas have probably been driving away by him.

I've noticed with my brother and other gammas (long before I knew the term), they get off on attacking you, or your profession at the margins, like catty women. Little slams on the military, when I was active duty, comments directed at some composite that are really directed at me, and LOTS of secret King stuff..."you could never make it in MY world" chatter. They also like to immediately try to mitigate or downplay a condescending remark, as if to qualify it. It's attack and retreat, take cover. Then act surprised if you took it like it was intended, then they sermonize how you don't get it. Etc.

It's really annoying, because I pride myself on knowing when I don't know things, and learning from guys around me, even guys that I'm "smarter" than (like in BJJ) who guide me through new areas of life and learning. The more I have grown and learned--and learned to STFU and listen to men who know better--and realized I was that guy at times to others, whom THEY learned from, the less I can stand being around guys like my brother, who are experts in EVERYTHING, or if you point that out, they go on about how you're missing some obscure point of what they really meant. Always coupled with the implied rolling of the eyes--that you are too stupid apparently to understand the deeper, intellect framework they working with and under.

Anyone else dealing with this with a family member? It's sad, because I basically have had to cut him off, because I frankly, even as a younger brother who always fit that mold, I just want to choke him out to humble his ass.

Blogger bob kek mando January 28, 2018 3:43 PM  

36. Huh January 28, 2018 1:00 PM
Or does the Secret King have a way to imagine that you printing his pathetic insults makes him The Winner?



those desperate for attention will garner negative attention by purposely offending people if they can't manage to get positive attention.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Narcissistic_supply

Blogger Daniel H January 28, 2018 3:46 PM  

Can someone give me a quick rundown on Gamma vs Omega. I get the impression they are somewhat similar.

Blogger Thucydides January 28, 2018 3:53 PM  

@64
Funny you mentioned high school. I recently met a person who evidently remembered me from high school (although I really didn't remember him at all), and what struck me as bizarre about the encounter was the amount of effort this guy was putting into getting me to "remember" him.

Now I won't claim to have been anything special in high school, but the deep seated frustration that this person had because after 20 + years I didn't remember *him* was amazing. If Allen Ayler was that strung out after just 15 months, I can only imagine something like that marinating in a persons mind for decades.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright January 28, 2018 3:53 PM  

Was he drunk?

You wife is such a classy lady. Only a blind insane man could think otherwise.

Blogger James Parliament January 28, 2018 4:06 PM  

I also thought he sounded drunk compared with the earlier complaints.

Anonymous Jo January 28, 2018 4:28 PM  

@66 Daniel -- I don't claim to be an expert, but no, I don't believe Gammas and Omegas are similar. For more information, check out Alpha Game. There's a good breakdown of each of the types there.

My example may be lacking, but here's my off the top understanding. Imagine an office environment.

That guy everyone avoids is the Omega. He's deformed in some manner. I mean, you know the Omega. He's hopelessly off-key from the rest of the social group.

The Gamma is tricky, but noticeable if you pay attention. He's the "harmless" guy who might be socializing with the women in the office. Often, I believe, he'll present himself as somewhat of a leader of the lower ranking members of the office. But you'll notice he doesn't bond well with the regular men in the office. Probably avoids playing football at the office picnic, for instance, or only briefly talks to the higher status men before retreating to "his" domain in the office. You might not notice this, but the Gamma will almost certainly work to undermine the higher status men from afar. Passive aggressive quips in meetings, perhaps, or maybe he'll be in the middle of the gossip hub, oh-so-slyly inserting eye rolls and such when higher status men are mentioned and praised. "Why don't you like Charlie?" someone might ask the Gamma. "Oh, I don't dislike him, I just don't think he's that impressive. I mean, he's nice, he is. I like him, but boy, have you ever tried to sit through one of his "glory days" stories?"

Alphas & Betas & Deltas are the rest of the fellows in the office, and they fall into obvious positions in the hierarchy.

As I mentioned above, take my thoughts on this subject with a grain of salt. I'm no expert. This is just what I've gathered so far.

Anonymous patrick kelly January 28, 2018 4:33 PM  

RE: "Yes. First stop lying to others. Then stop lying to yourself. Then start achieving something, anything."

This and other advice like it has made this blog a life changing event for me.

I've had some drunk game sessions where I said stuff in game chat I later regretted. Got me unfriended or blacklisted by some, but never punished by whatever game ptb.

Anonymous DissidentRight January 28, 2018 4:38 PM  

> get humiliated by Vox
> whine to wifey
> ‘apologize’ to Vox

15 months later

> have wifey problems
> wifey uses shiv: “Vox was right about you”
> it’s super triggering!

Blogger Rashadjin January 28, 2018 4:58 PM  

@66 Daniel H

You could look up some of Vox's socio-sexual hierarchy posts. Not hard to find. But the simplest gist is that the Omega is bottom wrung and okay-ish with it. They're out of the game and so have opted out themselves. If I remember right.

The Gamma is more like someone who got crushed by the socio-sexual hierarchy instead of side-lined and ignored, and typically early on. There's a couple pathways to getting crushed, like having an over-inflated ego drunk on self-esteem run face first into reality. But it's usually subtler than that, more like the over-inflated ego drunk on self-esteem combined with a subconscious that knows that the Gamma is incapable of actually doing what the Gamma's ego has been conditioned to think he's capable of doing. And so, he becomes The Secret King. Crippled via the need to be as good as he thinks is being perpetually deadlocked with the reality that he isn't. Externally, the Gamma's social environment is a fragile facade at best and roughly non-existent at worst, and so they're subjected to a mix of nothing and failure. There's no one there to pick them up from those initial failures, dust them off, and help them across the finish line. The process of learning from failure is never experienced, and so the experience is twisted back and deadended at the state of failure which is never to be risked.

I've come to believe that the backstabbing Gamma reflexes are there so that any guy who finds himself in this position will be driven to take down the tyrannical Alpha who's made his life a living hell. That would work once upon a time, in small tribes, where the Gamma self-immolates against a despotic Alpha and everyone else is better off for losing the both of them. The problem these days is that the despotic Alpha is the State and Society, and so our poor Gammas lash out at anyone who vaguely fills that Alpha-esque spot in their social contexts, being unable to touch the people responsible for making their lives what they are.

Which is where I dance on the topic of 'no excuses'. There's a lot of ruin and a lot of people to blame in the life of your typical Gamma. That should not be ignored or downplayed, but it's also true that the appropriate response for the Gamma is to take control of his own destiny, to take the broken years of misery that he has been handed by everyone around him and fix it all himself. The responsibility for his life and his actions are ultimately the Gamma's.

And yes, the Gamma is basically always a 'he'. It's the male mentality's response to a particular life situation, even if that male mentality happens to be riding around in a woman.

The female mentality's response is what The Last Psychiatrist and Dr. Jordan Peterson call Borderline. Which is why I get annoyed when people around here pretend BPD is narcissistic in nature or try to make Gamma a subset of BPD or something. Where the Gamma is inherently subversive and backstabby, the Borderline is inherently submissive and passive. So you want a Borderline in a position of responsibility and authority about as much as you want a Gamma within a five mile radius of you, but the two are quite different.

The fun twist is that the a male Borderline will experience Gamma impulses, but won't act on them unless certain conditions are met.

Blogger Johnny January 28, 2018 5:10 PM  

@65 GenXsly

A low level of passive-aggressive is common. I find myself doing it and it happens with others. Being a put down artist seems to be more common among women than men, but some men do it also. Men are socially competitive with other men, and lots of men don't like thinking that some other man can do something, anything, better then they can.

Among my neighbors there are two brothers who can't get together without getting into a fight. Yelling and anger with a chance for a real physical confrontation. The older brother is hardly smarter than the younger, but likes to harass people on a low level, and has an easy time inflaming his younger brother. I am reminded of a scene out of the movie Goodfellas. A made man mobster makes Tommy so mad he ends up killing him. (a real life reenactment)

I doubt a categorical criticism would be helpful. Too ego challenging. Something that may be helpful is to flesh out their argument for them and encourage them to detail it. Don't address it as a personal criticism, merely a statement of fact. Something like, "What particular abilities do you think I am lacking to make it in your world?" (His response here.) "Perhaps I misunderstood you. You hinted (or said) that I couldn't make it in your world. Were you in error? Etc. The Socratic method actually. Avoid any sign of personnel offense and don’t argue back other than forcing them to flesh out detail. Or explicitly state what they hint at. As in "Do you mean to say..." This is best done if you have prior preparation. You anticipate the putdown and have had time to think about it.

People are the way they are and are not going to change because I don't like it. Ditto for you also I suppose.

Blogger Wyndie January 28, 2018 5:11 PM  

I’ve been an IT Manager for over 20 years and I have had the unfortunate experience of hiring a few gammas. Does anyone know any interview questions that could help ID potential gamma applicants?

Blogger tuberman January 28, 2018 5:21 PM  

Yeah, go past the tech questions and hit them with legit conflict questions, and ask about resolution of real world problems. Of course this works best in a non-converged company.

Blogger LP9 January 28, 2018 5:33 PM  

It is appalling to insult Spacebunny she is a wonderful person I miss her at social media.

People dont understand that Vox wasn't being insulting or rejecting he simply made a choice of whom to bring on board. Freedom of association, freedom of thought for whom to work with, what's the problem here?

Vox was entirely reasonable, its a bummer over a year later this person returns all upset...still; "As I said previously, Allen is obviously not psychologically suited to work in the high-trust, high-pressure, high-performance environment of the sort we have in the Vanilla Fork/Neapolitan Spoon project. That's fine. Most people aren't. It's an unusual and uniquely challenging project and there are probably plenty of other projects for which he is perfectly suitable. Not only do we not want him in the project, but he is absolutely right to not want to be a part of it. Not being a good fit should not be seen as a form of rejection, merely as a recognition of the obvious."

Money is time, time is money; info g, alt hero, publishing, many multiple projects are all looking great; bringing in trouble is a money and time drain, reminds me of offspring, keep em' separated

To my knowledge no one around here attacked Allen and Allen had no busy writing a jacked review at Amazon.

Allen's wife and mother are all voting POTUS Trump. Triggered.

65 Let them go, its ok to drift from family that are toxic towards you, dont worry about feelings, prayers or holidays, let them go, they are not changing and that is ok, not your problem, not your baggage. in time the family member's that take their side will find out you were right.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 28, 2018 5:40 PM  

Wyndie wrote:I’ve been an IT Manager for over 20 years and I have had the unfortunate experience of hiring a few gammas. Does anyone know any interview questions that could help ID potential gamma applicants?


"What was your worst experience in high school? And how did you respond to it?"


The big thing you are looking for is, does he view himself as a "secret king?"

Does he think he merits accolades beyond what he really does?

Gammas always want to be lauded for their intellect. They feel they should be getting the rewards that "the jocks" do because of their IQ.

Blogger LP9 January 28, 2018 5:53 PM  

75 Ask them anything within the law regarding conflict crisis management and keep the cringe/deception radar on. Run personality tests those usually reveal followers not that its a bad thing depending on skills required of them for the role or project. During any physical exams, screen for high or low T, slide it in with the drug test, certain corps do that without anyones knowledge as there is a war on men by women and weak men in HR its how women ruined business via HR and totally stifle production.

Blogger Calven January 28, 2018 5:54 PM  

Kind of like years of trolling the SFWA and Tor because of hurt feelings on a Nebula award jury?
As far as long term impotent rage goes, this guy is an amateur.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 28, 2018 5:55 PM  

@66 Daniel H

Somewhat similar, in that they're both definitely low-status. However, Gammas tend to think really highly of themselves and basically think they should be Alphas. Because they don't have the Alpha goods, they constantly try to sabotage those who do have more Alpha traits than they do, along with their followers.

Omegas have basically either given up, or if they haven't, they regard other humans as dangerous, unpredictable animals who will turn on them on a whim. They don't have any of the Alpha entitlement that Gammas do, but they very easily turn into full-blown misanthropes. They're not all like that, but it's definitely a tendency.

Anonymous GenXsly January 28, 2018 5:57 PM  

Johnny, thanks. What started my recent reflection was that I sent my brother an email with a meme, and he freaked out and went all anti-Trump. He gets anxiety about alpha males, he doesn't even realize how obvious it is. He went into a lavish SJW "response" (to a simple joke/meme) that it was like a Rorschach test, peering into his inner insecurities.

I want to force feed him the red pill, but he is so deeply invested into his (fake libertarian) center-left ideology that he might be suicidal if he ever came to terms with the truth. Btw, his wife hasn't slept with him in nearly 20 years, as he told me, and he is losing his grip on his business. Lastly, the gal he was trying to maintain as a side-piece apparently soft-extorted him--and then he confided to me he basically couldn't normally get it up to even bang her. Sad.

I recommended he turn to Christ, and I was being serious...it's been crickets since. Maybe I'll hear from him in 15 months.



Blogger VFM #7634 January 28, 2018 6:00 PM  

@73 Rashadjin

Actually, I really think Omegas are the ones that get crushed by the hierarchy and learn to adapt by staying the h*ll out of the way. It's the Gammas who don't get spanked enough growing up. Omegas are familiar with failure (they tend to expect it) while Gammas try their hardest not to expose themselves to it, including by brainwashing themselves that it didn't happen when it does.

Blogger VD January 28, 2018 6:04 PM  

Kind of like years of trolling the SFWA and Tor because of hurt feelings on a Nebula award jury?

It's nothing like that at all. Especianlly since it wasn't my feelings that were hurt about being on any of the three Nebula award juries on which I served. All without incident or conflict.

I'm not the one who got rid of them altogether either.

Blogger VD January 28, 2018 6:05 PM  

I really think Omegas are the ones that get crushed by the hierarchy and learn to adapt by staying the h*ll out of the way.

Exactly. Omega is not optional. They know there is no place for them. They just want to avoid being trod upon.

Blogger Zarathustra's Bastard January 28, 2018 6:16 PM  

It seems to me that men who are getting something done tend to have time for other men who are getting something done. Us habitual daydreamers just aren't so useful or respectable.

Was it Heartiste who says 'your mission, not your woman'? Make that 'your mission, not your ego' and a lot of a gamma crap'd be cut out then and there. One of the best things about having a mission is it forces upon you an awareness of your own weakness, and no-one else to blame.

Anonymous Icicle January 28, 2018 6:19 PM  

Ask them anything within the law regarding conflict crisis management and keep the cringe/deception radar on. Run personality tests those usually reveal followers not that its a bad thing depending on skills required of them for the role or project.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Snakes_in_Suits

I highly recommend this book.

Blogger tublecane January 28, 2018 6:22 PM  

@59-"Ayler's wife's attempts at sluttery would be about as successful as her husband's attempts to get Vox to recruit him"

Any woman can be a slut. Even he-she "women." It doesn't require any special attainment, just a pulse and men nearby willing to give it a go.

Blogger SciVo January 28, 2018 7:05 PM  

VD wrote:If someone IS a gamma, or at any rate displays said characteristics, is there any way that it can be fixed? Does repentance and restoration figure at all?

Yes. First stop lying to others. Then stop lying to yourself. Then start achieving something, anything.


I'm pretty sure that for most, this would also require replacing a dependence on chemical intoxicants with an acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

O.C. wrote:WTF? Was this guy on drugs when he wrote this or off his meds? I honestly can't tell.

Embrace the healing power of "and".

Weak wrote:Pity the gamma. Be patient and helpful with the aspiring delta. There will be backslides.

Hopefully Delta Man comes back. His posts were life changing.


I agree. Even just the concept that Delta is a worthy aspiration is something our sick culture has lost, that needs to be said out loud. And that it's as simple as checking your ego at the door and putting your nose to the grindstone.

Jo wrote:[b]To make matters worse, they are often ambitious and pursue responsibility, only to shirk it once they have it and try to avoid making decisions or actually doing anything due to their crippling fear of failure.[/b]

This is an interesting insight. An inflated sense of self coupled with a lack of courage.

How would you recommend the Gamma overcome the crippling fear?

(I imagine your answer might be: by failing. But then, if that is indeed an answer, how does the Gamma push past the initial crippling fear to fail for the sake of lesson?)


I think that Gamma sociosexual status is coterminus with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, so the first answer is to consciously work on immediate reciprocity. Then once repetition has made it a habit, pretend to be an extra in someone else's movie (even if you don't really believe it), start small, and work up. Pretend you're in the background of a montage in some war or sports movie where everyone's working together and someone has to be the guy who just moves dirt or tackles practice dummies, and that's you. But for the 2 seconds that what you're doing matters, everyone is rooting for you and cheers, because you tipped the balance for the team.

Daniel H wrote:Can someone give me a quick rundown on Gamma vs Omega. I get the impression they are somewhat similar.

Other good answers have already been given, but let me make it visceral: when some guy asks to form or join a tabletop RPG, an omega may smell like rotten meat or have lice visibly crawling in his beard, while a gamma may be rocking a pussy hat. Omega rage is misanthropic, because they're rejected by everyone; gamma rage is misogynistic, because they're not as accepted by women as they feel they deserve.

Blogger billo January 28, 2018 7:27 PM  

I missed the original interaction that was described, but I keyed on this bit:

"If you can't deal with the fact that the big dogs on this project are insanely busy, you won't fit in. There simply isn't space for divas and egos on the team" to people trying to help...

I just got through reading an article on a software site (which, unfortunately, I can't remember) where the author said almost exactly the same thing about people wanting to collaborate on a project who are not willing to do the work to come up to speed on their own. The author notes that he is very busy trying to get a project done, and while he welcomes help, he does not welcome people who take more effort *from him* in getting up to speed than their contributions will be worth.

In other words, he doesn't mind teaching and mentoring in a project if there's a net benefit for him, but he's not interested in delaying the project to do it. He points out that a lot of younger people entering the workforce, however, see it the opposite way -- that the obligation of people to mentor and help them along is *greater* than the need to finish the project in a timely manner or to provide an excellent product.

I've seen this in younger staff where I work, where we have had a couple flounce off the job complaining that we did not accommodate them enough or provide enough support to them as individuals. Our response was that we provided the *resources* to come up to speed, but they have to take the initiative themselves to get better and to solve problems on their own. They simply can't be calling at all hours for trivial things. All that bought us were a bunch of complaints to HR on their way out the door.

I think it has to do, perhaps, not so much with this alpha/gamma stuff that folk here seem so interested in as much as a generational thing. To some of these younger workers, the job apparently exists for their benefit instead of them working in order to benefit the project. Being insulted when someone says "Look, this is something you should work out for yourself -- I'm very busy right now," is a symptom of that, I think. This tendency to be petulant and insulting in personal terms also seems to be a facet of this.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 28, 2018 7:59 PM  

I think it is also telling that he insists on ignoring the fact that VD describes himself as a sigma, not an alpha.

But anyway, I have to be honest: Elliot Rodger's rampage doesn't exactly fit my taxonomy, because he actually killed more men than women in what I would describe as a misogynistic gamma rage, because it transmuted into misanthropy from him hating men too for being more successful with women.

But I still think that's different from just hating everyone back like an omega.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 28, 2018 8:11 PM  

@SciVo

Omegas do have some Gamma traits, and some more than others. The fact that Elliot Rodger was rejected by society completely rather than being reluctantly accepted as a male feminist or class clown would be marks him as Omega.

It may be too simplistic to state that a Sigma is what happens when an Omega manages to get rid of all Gamma tendencies he has, but it does sort of make sense to me.

Anonymous RedJack January 28, 2018 8:21 PM  

Second that recommendation.

Blogger Ben Cohen January 28, 2018 8:50 PM  

Harry Browne said that the greatest trait of a salesman is honesty and that it works in all aspects of life.

Question: What do you call people that drain your energy when you're around them?

Anonymous SciVo January 28, 2018 8:52 PM  

I guess if Elliot Rodger didn't even really have any male friends, which is implied by his choice to first stab all his roommates to death, then what we're looking at is omega rage rationalizing itself to wish it were a gamma even. Such a weird guy.

P.S. What's up with the Blogger "Conflicting edits" error message? That does not seem particularly explanatory or useful.

Anonymous SciVo de Implorable January 28, 2018 8:54 PM  

Ben Cohen wrote:Question: What do you call people that drain your energy when you're around them?

Emotional vampires.

Blogger Jail Cussox January 28, 2018 9:53 PM  

VD,
Read this over again. You made the correct choice: this is unprofessional conduct that could only end in disaster if you had proceeded to include him.

If Allen is reading this: Wish you the best of luck; beware: often how you respond to disappointment is how you respond to everything else. You have a wife and kids. I'd hate for you to call them "ugly cunt" for not eating their vegetables.

Blogger Jail Cussox January 28, 2018 9:58 PM  

A prospect... if you have life coaching to sell them.

Or...

...Productivity Suck.
High-maintenance.
Energy Vampire.
Time-wasters.

...the type of person who will call you up thinking you care about her gossip when you don't and will waste hours regaling you about details easily solved by jusy talking to the person directly. Yeah, no thanks. I make it very clear I am not their therapist.

Or I lay down boundaries and commit them to rules both orally and in writing that get results.

Blogger Forge the Sky January 28, 2018 10:14 PM  

@65  GenXsly

Hard to tell from a distance of course, but the behavior you describe is consistent with alpha. In a rare similarity, alpha and gamma are united in that they both highly value position in the hierarchy.

The difference is, alphas will tend to assert their superiority in the face of a demonstration of value. Gammas tend to react to an attack on their position.

Bystander: "I have a great X!"
Alpha: (puffs out chest) "I have an even BIGGER X!"
Gamma: (rolls eyes, sarcastic) "Good for you."

Bystander: "You aren't as X as you think you are"
Alpha: lol
Gamma: REEEEEEEEEE

Blogger VFM #7634 January 28, 2018 10:32 PM  

@SciVo

I find it easiest to think of Elliot Rodger as a Gamma-Omega. Worst possible thing to be, except for Gamma-Omega-Lambda I guess.

His full-blown Secret King complex distinguishes him from most other Omegas, who have moderate Gamma traits similar to, say, Deltas.

Anonymous Motley Crue January 28, 2018 10:34 PM  

To GenXSly...

"But how to you tell a otherwise successful guy he's gamma?"

You don't, since the SS hierarchy is artificially created and emotionally induced.

"They also like to immediately try to mitigate or downplay a condescending remark, as if to qualify it. It's attack and retreat, take cover."

That is not "gamma" behavior. It is simply rude conduct.

"The more I have grown and learned--and learned to STFU and listen to men who know better..."

A tremendous quality to possess.

"Should he change?"

Be a Christian man. Show your concern about his personality flaws. State how you want to help him. Demonstrate patience. Do not fall trap to anti-Godly masculinity.

"It's sad, because I basically have had to cut him off, because I frankly, even as a younger brother who always fit that mold, I just want to choke him out to humble his ass."

Perhaps these words of wisdom will help--The opposite of ego is humility. In the book of Micah we read, “What does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God” (Micah 6:8). One verse that epitomizes why we are to be humble is Peter’s exhortation in his first epistle: “All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble” (1 Peter 5:5).

Blogger Rashadjin January 28, 2018 10:47 PM  

@83 VFM #7634

Fair points those. The misanthrope Omega who safely snarks from the bleachers is a good picture for them.

The making of the Gamma is a bit more complicated. In an old thread, someone recalled a story where a character was wandering down a hallway and, inside his head, he could feel all their scorn and mocking jokes radiating in at him as he kept his eyes down and trod along - the ultimate social reject who had fully internalized it. That seems about right for the making of a Gamma mindset whereas it doesn't look like most Omegas internalize it to that degree. So Gamma Variant A could be the Omega who got completely crushed rather than sidestepping via the snark, sarcasm, and middle-finger to society route. The internalization produced enough resentment to turn the Omega into a Gamma.

And then Gamma Variant B is the narcissistic type. They didn't get all the cookies they were promised in life and, for whatever reason, went Secret King instead of becoming competent. They chose resentment and bitterness toward society instead of looking to and correcting their own faults. I get the sense that Gamma Variant Bs aren't natural Omegas, it's just that the resentment, backstabbiness, and narcissism radiates off them to the point where society and/or women shun them as if they were a natural Omega.

Blogger Rashadjin January 28, 2018 11:17 PM  

@101 Cont...

Which was to say. Most Gammas are Gamma Variant B because the narcissism factor helps a lot. But you end up with some Gamma Variant A's simply due to getting nothing from society but the worst on offer. They expect to be treated with a little dignity and respect, generally about what's right for Omega (which is less than one would hope for in) and not even getting that little dignity and respect shifts them Gamma.

To the Secret King mentality on Gamma A's, they do have some talents and intelligence that never get developed because society crushes them out of trying. Add a little bit of self-esteem culture in public ed, and you get a Gamma Secret King out of someone who isn't actually narcissistic.

Blogger Lazarus January 28, 2018 11:17 PM  

P.S. What's up with the Blogger "Conflicting edits" error message? That does not seem particularly explanatory or useful.

Before you Publish, copy your comment so you can paste and try again.

Blogger SciVo January 28, 2018 11:18 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:I find it easiest to think of Elliot Rodger as a Gamma-Omega. Worst possible thing to be, except for Gamma-Omega-Lambda I guess.

There you go. A narcissistic outcast. Fits.

Blogger SciVo January 28, 2018 11:20 PM  

Lazarus wrote:P.S. What's up with the Blogger "Conflicting edits" error message? That does not seem particularly explanatory or useful.

Before you Publish, copy your comment so you can paste and try again.


I actually use the Lazarus plugin, but for some reason I had to switch up names for a bit there.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 28, 2018 11:53 PM  

@Rashadjin

Yeah, your Variant A sounds like the Elliot Rodger-type Gamma-Omega I was discussing with SciVo, while Variant B is a regular Gamma. If I've read things correctly.

Anonymous fop January 28, 2018 11:57 PM  

Hey Allen! Have you ever eaten Tide Pods?!? They are delicious! I know it sounds weird but they are! You should totally try them!

Blogger Nate73 January 28, 2018 11:58 PM  

I think gammas react psychologically as if they were one step above the bottom of the hierarchy and any further threat or humiliation would put them at the bottom and spell actual or merely genetic death, as would be common thousands of years ago in a tribal setting. That's why they fight tooth-and-nail and will never let the issue go, because if you "win" then they perceive that as utter destruction (metaphorically).

Vox gave an example awhile ago of a man who thought his contributions to a team entitled him to make suggestions on how it was run, and the leader slapped him down hard, and the guy freaked out. In that case he *thought* his work had been steadily raising his social rank somehow, when in fact it had not. For someone who thought they had improved their position, it's jarring and frightening to suddenly find it was an illusion all along. Like if you bought a house and afterward found out your bank account had $500 in it and not $500,000 like you believed.

Blogger Forge the Sky January 29, 2018 12:16 AM  

"Vox gave an example awhile ago of a man who thought his contributions to a team entitled him to make suggestions on how it was run, and the leader slapped him down hard, and the guy freaked out."

This is symptomatic of a person who has been propagandized re: equality and meritocracy. Though in theory these are excellent things for ones feelings, they are rarely successfully implemented. This is partly because of defects in human nature and partly due to a real need for hierarchy to direct effort.

Even if a king is a lousy physical specimen and an incompetent fighter, his fit and competent soldiers still need to obey his commands for tactical reasons. It might burn at times but it must be understood.

Not understanding this is a result of the insulation of prosperity.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 29, 2018 12:24 AM  

@93 Ben Cohen

Question: What do you call people that drain your energy when you're around them?
---

Energy vampires

Blogger Rashadjin January 29, 2018 12:37 AM  

@106 VFM #7634 | @108 Nate73

Combining in VFM #7634's observation that Gammas wrongly imagine themselves to be Alphas and Nate73's bit about fighting for not last status and misjudging status contributing to the Gamma mindset...

It's funny, but I think my Variant A, crushed Omegas, are actually the normal Gammas, the ones that should show up in the wild as a society correcting feature hidden in the back wiring of the human psyche. It's the Variant B's, the narcissistic ones unable to accept their real status, that are unnatural. Our culture of self-esteem and narcissism is synthetically producing Gammas.

Blogger Scott C January 29, 2018 1:53 AM  

Bystander: "I have a great X!"
Alpha: (puffs out chest) "I have an even BIGGER X!"
Gamma: (rolls eyes, sarcastic) "Good for you."

What if the Alpha doesn't have a bigger X, but insists that he does anyway? Surely you've run across males who say things like that, but can't deliver. It's like they're trying to fool everyone into thinking they have a bigger X with blind confidence.

Blogger Thot January 29, 2018 2:01 AM  

He has some interesting illustrations on his site but I wasn't impressed with any of his web design work. Also, if he came away with the impression that Vox is just an egotistical asshole why not just go about his life and think "wow I dodged a bullet there, at least I won't be having to deal with that on a daily basis"? Why stew on it?

Blogger Roger Hill January 29, 2018 4:16 AM  

Of course Allen will read this post by Vox and seethe. But its not as if he hasn't been seething already.
This sort of person is the kind that seeks revenge for the rest of his life. Don't sign for any packages from his zip code.

I had to let go of an employee about 8 months ago due to an ethical violation. When confronting him about it, his response was to review the list of all the other wonderful things he had done and rage at me for calling his behavior unethical. I happened to run into him this past week. Considering the time that had lapsed and the fact that he had already found "a much better position" elsewhere (he made sure to describe it in those words in a text) I figured he and I would at least be cordial. Instead, he picked right back up where the dispute had ended. It blew my mind.

Blogger pdwalker January 29, 2018 4:18 AM  

@113 Thot - because he is a gamma, and something triggered his inner rage. @56 Philalethes may have nailed it. Perhaps he is separated from his wife and somehow he blames VD for his downfall. Or perhaps he's had too much to drink and all his inner disappointments have come to the fore, looking for a target.

No matter how you cut it, he behaviour is classic gamma.

(If I behaved like that, I think I'd rather want to shoot myself)

Anonymous GodEmperorMemes January 29, 2018 5:57 AM  

I would've been more surprised if it *hadn't* been Portland, TBH.

Blogger Phunctor January 29, 2018 5:58 AM  

Why stew on it?

He was going to succeed in infiltrating Barad-Dur. So Sure. And then, discovery! Oh, preciousss

Blogger justthinkin January 29, 2018 7:40 AM  

Thank you for this discussion! My brother-in-law started drunk-texting my husband the night of the election (starting at 2 AM and on until after 7) about how the world was going to end because Trump, and it was all our fault. Blaming his baby brother for ALL of his problems, including those he had before my husband was born. He follows up regularly but the messages have morphed into blaming me for corrupting my husband, replete with ugly insults and accusations. These are the only two left in the family and my husband is reluctant to break off the relationship completely and wants to respond to each hit, while I advise a short and sweet "I'm not the cause of your problems and as much as I'd like to help, I'm not equipped. Get professional help." But the rage behind it all is frightening to both of us, and my question is, "Do these gammas you speak of tend to go postal?", 'cuz he knows where we live.

Blogger SciVo January 29, 2018 2:39 PM  

justthinkin wrote:These are the only two left in the family and my husband is reluctant to break off the relationship completely and wants to respond to each hit, while I advise a short and sweet "I'm not the cause of your problems and as much as I'd like to help, I'm not equipped. Get professional help." But the rage behind it all is frightening to both of us, and my question is, "Do these gammas you speak of tend to go postal?", 'cuz he knows where we live.

It's not so much that they tend to go postal (or there would be a lot more mass shootings), as that those who go postal tend to be gammas or omegas. But still, it sounds like he's working himself up into a lather, so I would suggest being mindful of human suggestibility, and saying what you want him to do instead of what you don't.

For example, a good response would be, "If you can't say anything nice, then please leave us alone." As persuasion goes, it's an improvement on the old saying, that to an irrational person would put the options of "say something nice" and "say anything at all" in his head. And if he literally can't think of a single nice thing to say, then you really are better off with the alternative of him leaving you alone.

Blogger SciVo January 29, 2018 8:03 PM  

The idea being that hopefully he would start saying nice things instead of leaving you alone. But you can't control that, so at least offer acceptable alternatives.

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