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Friday, January 19, 2018

Who subsidizes whom?

California politicians are worried about their taxpayers' new inability to offset against their Federal taxes:
The Republican-backed federal tax bill flipped the tables on a never-ending question for California politicians: Will high taxes lead the state’s wealthiest residents to flee the Golden State for the comparable tax havens of Florida, Nevada and Texas?

Republicans reliably raise that alarm when Democrats advocate for tax increases, like the 2012 and 2016 ballot initiatives that levied a new income tax on very high-earning residents.

But now, with the federal tax bill cutting off deductions that benefited well-off Californians, the state’s Democrats suddenly are singing the GOP song about a potential millionaire exodus.

“People with higher incomes pay a lot more money, and some of them may be tempted to leave,” Gov. Jerry Brown said when he unveiled his 2018-19 budget proposal last week. “This was an assault by the Republicans in Congress against California.”

That fear animates Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction, as well as other proposals that Assembly leaders have hinted they’re preparing to offer. De Leon’s bill cleared a second committee this week and is on its way to a vote on the Senate floor. Trump administration officials say it won’t pass muster with the IRS.

Democratic state lawmakers are worried because California relies so heavily on the income taxes it collects from high earners to fund government services. The state’s wealthiest 1 percent, for instance, pay 48 percent of its income tax, and the departure of just a few families could lead to a noticeable hit to state general fund revenue.

“It is a genuine concern and that’s why the legislatures in high-tax states are swinging into action immediately,” said Katie Pratt, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles who specializes in taxes.

The new federal tax law poses problems for high earners in the Golden State because it caps two deductions that Californians used to limit their federal income tax liability, restricting their ability to write off mortgage interest and their state and local taxes.
Come now. Every time the issue gets raised in Minnesota, the newspapers produce one argument after another to explain why people don't move based on tax rates. Because great schools! And art! And people!

Of course, since liberals and progressives are totally incapable of keeping two thoughts in their head at the same time, the fact that moving a bunch of Mexicans and Somalis might degrade the value of those competing factors never occurs to them.

Labels: ,

99 Comments:

Blogger Jon D. January 19, 2018 12:14 PM  

People with higher incomes are just now going to be tempted to leave? Brown is apparently drunk. I hang in successful circles, and dozens of folk I know have moved their businesses and residences out of California in the last 10 years because of absurd state taxes already. This just compounds what's already going on.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 19, 2018 12:17 PM  

How does collapse occur? Slowly at first, and then very suddenly!

The key is not to be left holding the bag.

Blogger Madame Ringading January 19, 2018 12:17 PM  

It's reminding me of how Rome depopulated in ancient antiquity. Not necessarily because of wars and decadence, though they were factors. It was a combination of of a grasping central government and the influx of incompatible populations. Those that had an out, whether a country villa or opportunities elsewhere, took it.

Anonymous Tipsy January 19, 2018 12:21 PM  

It's always informative to check prices on uHaul. The cost for going from San Jose, CA to Austin TX is more than twice the other way around.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 19, 2018 12:22 PM  

I read this article yesterday. I loved the discombobulated response from the CA state government at the realization that people wouldn't want to stay and pay taxes.

Blogger Miguel January 19, 2018 12:23 PM  

Wait. Werent the New Americans living in California, and their "work ethic", good for the economy?

Anonymous a_peraspera January 19, 2018 12:28 PM  

California's leaders observably don't care whether the inhabitants of their state can generate tax dollars. If they did care, then they wouldn't be importing millions of Mexicans and Central Americans with low earning (or taxpaying) power.

If California politicians cared about generating tax dollars, they would promote policies that attract and retain high-earning populations. Instead they promote policies guaranteed to chase high-earning folks away (except for the ultra-high earners with gates, limos and bodyguards).

Again it's not about logic but status and virtue signaling.

Anonymous TD January 19, 2018 12:29 PM  

Sure they can keep two thoughts in their head at once, if they are mutually exclusionary:
"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them... all this is indispensably necessary"

Infogalactic seems responsive and fast now.

Anonymous GregMan January 19, 2018 12:29 PM  

We are seeing the same dynamic here in the People's Republic of New York. The progs who have run the place since forever are panicking now that the sheeple are going to have to pay the full amount of the outrageous state and property taxes they fleece us for, without deductibility. Good.

Anonymous Anonymous January 19, 2018 12:30 PM  

Really doesn't matter. There's a half dozen major faults ready to unzip. When they do SoCal will be a wasteland.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 19, 2018 12:32 PM  

The God Emperor knows what he's doing. Decades of the NWO controlling everything have left our Congress critters weak and incapable of independent thought of their connection to the central core is disrupted by a change agent. Hence, they are unable to resist Trump 's stratagems.

Blogger Brett baker January 19, 2018 12:34 PM  

The sad part is, many of those moving will vote for the same kind of politicians in their new home state.

Blogger Dave January 19, 2018 12:34 PM  

allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction

Can't wait to see Charity Navigator give a rating t the State of California for Financial Health and Accountability & Transparency as they do other charities. Pretty sure they would end up at the bottom.

Blogger Brett baker January 19, 2018 12:34 PM  

The sad part is, many of those moving will vote for the same kind of politicians in their new home state.

Blogger Rick January 19, 2018 12:36 PM  

"Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction"

Yeah, that'll work. California will allow it, don't you know. Heck, they won't even complain. In fact, California will allow you to attach a big fat hashtag nevertrump bumper sticker on your Federal returns where the check is supposed to go. IRS will love it. Like, totally allowed.

Blogger Allen L. January 19, 2018 12:43 PM  

It would be nice if California provided a sanctuary status for my money being in my pocket.

Blogger Desdichado January 19, 2018 12:48 PM  

Rick wrote:Yeah, that'll work. California will allow it, don't you know. Heck, they won't even complain. In fact, California will allow you to attach a big fat hashtag nevertrump bumper sticker on your Federal returns where the check is supposed to go. IRS will love it. Like, totally allowed.
Between this and the story at Breitbart today that California State Laws prohibit employers from cooperating with ICE and they're warning that they will prosecute, makes me wonder if in retrospect we're seeing the first shots at Fort Sumter. When the state government stands up to the federal government and says, "Make me" there's only two possible reactions. Both are ugly.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 19, 2018 12:49 PM  

@8: Infogalactic seems responsive and fast now.

This is great to hear and may be because I have hunted down and blocked all those damn people out there using hosting sites to trawl through Infogalactic at high rates. We used to see lots of them.

I need a better approach to handling that problem, but that will have to wait a bit.

Blogger Nate73 January 19, 2018 12:49 PM  

When it says high earners, doesn't it really mean Silicon Valley? Sure that Severin guy left but realistically could big companies like google or facebook really leave California?

Anonymous Jonathan January 19, 2018 12:54 PM  

Plenty of people are also fleeing Illinois. The politicians spin it by saying people are moving in as well, but when you replace solid citizens who pay taxes with 3rd worlders who only take you end up with a terrible state.

Blogger Not a lefty January 19, 2018 1:00 PM  

I beg your pardon! It's formally the Soviet Socialist Republic of New York.

Anonymous Thales January 19, 2018 1:00 PM  

Meanwhile, the High Speed Boondoggle keeps eating cash.

Anonymous deplorable me January 19, 2018 1:02 PM  

What's that saying about doubling down? Looks like Cali politicians are trying to double down on stupid:

https://www.mrctv.org/blog/california-dems-proposing-business-tax-hike-counter-gop-tax-cuts

Anonymous Brick Hardslab January 19, 2018 1:04 PM  

Californians have literally ruined my state. They have been fleeing since the seventies at least.

Blogger Artisanal Toad January 19, 2018 1:04 PM  

Inevitably this flight from taxes leads to the Californication of other states as the fleeing high net worth individuals bring their idiotic beliefs with them and pollute their new home. This is exacerbated due to the higher social status they have due to their wealth. If they bring their businesses with them, they have a bully pulpit to promulgate their stupidity.

I remember the crash of Colorado Springs around 1990 when companies like DEC shut down their units and laid off a lot of people. Real Estate prices crashed and there was a general exodus as people scrambled to find work. I had two friends who were Air Force enlisted men that picked up Victorian homes downtown for $70k - $80k. They rented rooms to cover the mortgage, slowly made improvements and sold them a decade later for ~$500k. Another friend was an instructor at the Air Force Academy and he picked up a suburban home for way less than the cost to build it.

A lot of folks from California moved in during that time-frame, attracted by the very low real estate prices and quality of life. Colorado Springs changed and became far more "progressive" compared to what it once was and in part, it was the decision of Focus on the Family to move in and establish their headquarters there. Churchian cucks, all of them, but they were proud evangelical conservative republicans.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 19, 2018 1:06 PM  

Nate73 wrote:When it says high earners, doesn't it really mean Silicon Valley? Sure that Severin guy left but realistically could big companies like google or facebook really leave California?
SV, Hollywood, Financial Services, Aerospace.
Google could leave SV in a week. literally. It would take some time to move the drones' work to Utah, or Texas, or Georgia, but the top executives are only a couple dozen people.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab January 19, 2018 1:07 PM  

Did you guys turn up the spam filter? Is Google messing with you? I've seen legit comments from regulars here just disappear when I reload.

Anonymous Roundtine January 19, 2018 1:08 PM  

New York is also cooking up plans. Note in the article they say the state will come out ahead from the tax cuts. All the worry is over a potential exodus of wealthy. Democrat NY and CA are contemplating a major tax reform effort solely to benefit the 1%. The irony amuses me.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 19, 2018 1:08 PM  

Miguel wrote:
Wait. Werent the New Americans living in California, and their "work ethic", good for the economy?

That's what Jorge and ¡Jeb! always said - and still bleat from time to time. The thing is, any state that wanted to preserve itself should keep the criminals who inhabit billionaire's row in San Francisco out by assessing a poll tax on them of 70-percent of their assets. Welcoming them in is like welcoming in bubonic plague. They're the folks who made Californistan what it is today. Now they're unhappy that they might have to pay more taxes??? As the late (((Leona Helmsley))) boasted, taxes are for little people. (Not for the Too Big to Jail crowd).

Anonymous Peter B January 19, 2018 1:08 PM  

a_peraspera wrote:California's leaders observably don't care whether the inhabitants of their state can generate tax dollars. If they did care, then they wouldn't be importing millions of Mexicans and Central Americans with low earning (or taxpaying) power.

If California politicians cared about generating tax dollars, they would promote policies that attract and retain high-earning populations. Instead they promote policies guaranteed to chase high-earning folks away (except for the ultra-high earners with gates, limos and bodyguards).

Again it's not about logic but status and virtue signaling.


It's not just about status signaling, it's about status acquisition. The illegals vote for you, you not only get a lot of perks of office and the chance to move up to the big trough in DC, your actions in office get you a better chance of doing enough favors for the right people to earn you some of that high income. If "earn" is the right word.

Also, the more you depress the real income of lower status people, the better off you are in comparison.

Speaker of the California Assembly Alex Rendon returned from a Democrat mission t Mexico and proclaimed:

there is no sensible place for barriers between California and Mexico.

In this view, Mexicans who violate U.S. immigration law are only entering their own country and not illegal in any sense. They are therefore entitled to education, medical care, drivers’ licenses, welfare, and in-state college tuition. False-documented illegals also vote in federal, state and local elections, the imported electorate of California’s ruling class Democrats. California secretary of state Alex Padilla conveniently refuses to reveal voter information and will not cooperate with federal probes of voter fraud."

The Democrats in California are starting to sound like the PRI in Mexico.

There's a new proposal to partition California into an eastern strip that includes San Diego and the north coast.

There's Calexit.

There's the recurring cannabis fueled dream of the State of Jefferson.

There's the Aztlan movement supported by the government of Mexico.

Last but not least, the earthquake that Californians call "the big one" is overdue.

Good times.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 19, 2018 1:09 PM  

Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction

It's been long said, by the Right, that the Left views Taxes Paid as "charity", but I guess it's nice to see that argument proven.


@19 Nate73

Apple, for however much they spent in SV on the new building ($5 billion?), is basically going to setup a massive shop somewhere else. Amazon is making a 2nd HQ in some other State, specifically to keep WA in line to not doing anything stupid. Google & Facebook don't really have prime facilities built up anywhere else within the USA to move their HQs. Intel could move at a drop of a hat, right along with most of the other big Semiconductor companies. IBM wouldn't have much issue joining everyone else in TX.

Basically, most older, big companies can easily move. Some of the bigger, new ones don't have the easy ability to, yet. If other States, that aren't Texas, weren't in such a mess themselves, they'd be flying people to talk to the big SV companies and try to find a deal to move their HQs.


As for CA itself, I look forward to having the State declared in Rebellion, cancelling their Electoral College Votes until some time after re-construction and executing the current leadership.

Anonymous Anonymous January 19, 2018 1:09 PM  

Matthew / Marku

What am I doing that causes my comments to be spammed when I use my Google ID?

Blogger SQT January 19, 2018 1:10 PM  

I live in NorCal in a pretty conservative area (everyone I know voted Trump even though it's pointless in this state) and leaving the state is a regular topic of conversation.

People in my particular circle are high earners and we all know we're throwing money away if we stay. My husband already has seen a large number of his wealthy clients leave the state. Brown is right to be worried.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella January 19, 2018 1:11 PM  

New Orleans was wealthy. Then they elected a diverse city council. An erratic, diverse city council. Now NOLA is a shell of a city, filled with tourists and vibrants. The ring of suburbs around the city are prosperous and stable, however.

The wealthy have gates and private guard services, as well as a high tolerance for corruption and squalor. It's okay to be rich there. It's hell on earth for poor, white, young people.

Anonymous Blastmaster January 19, 2018 1:11 PM  

Charitable deduction? Does this mean the. Federal taxes I have been paying were voluntary?

Blogger Silly but True January 19, 2018 1:14 PM  

Let California run with the theory of their solution and everyone needs to black knight the shit out of it: taxes are actually not an obligation but rather is actually charity.

Charity n. The voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need.

Blogger James Dixon January 19, 2018 1:17 PM  

> “This was an assault by the Republicans in Congress against California.”

You can almost hear the "And that's our job", can't you?

> That fear animates Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction

I'm sure the IRS will be suitably impressed by California law, aren't you?

> The state’s wealthiest 1 percent, for instance, pay 48 percent of its income tax, and the departure of just a few families could lead to a noticeable hit to state general fund revenue.

Heh. The phrase "hoist with his own petard" comes to mind.

> There's a half dozen major faults ready to unzip. When they do SoCal will be a wasteland.

Assuming the fires and mudslides don't take it out first.

> Between this and the story at Breitbart today that California State Laws prohibit employers from cooperating with ICE and they're warning that they will prosecute...

Whereas if they don't cooperate the Fed's can prosecute. I guess they'll have to decide if they prefer state or federal prison. Or maybe they should just leave California.

> ...but realistically could big companies like google or facebook really leave California?

Sure they could. They do it all the time. Connecticut was sure GE wouldn't leave too.

Anonymous tublecane January 19, 2018 1:18 PM  

What do they mean, "will?" Doesn't the past exist? Don't we have some kind of record as to how taxes effect the population? You know, like they keep track of which toilet seat covers are preferred by 24-25 year-old lesbian double-amputee?

Naw, when it's something as important as tax policy, the mindset is always This Time Is Different.

Anonymous Elder Son January 19, 2018 1:24 PM  

The sad part is, many of those moving will vote for the same kind of politicians in their new home state.

Yeah. When I lived in Colorado several years ago, everyone in Colorado, thought everyone in Colorado, was from California. Dig the cogniv?

Seriously, you think millions of Californians have moved to every other state of the union and voted for your own dumbocraps and repukocraps? That if you removed all ex-Californians from every other state of the union, your state would be a utopia? It's a cop-out. As red as pure American blood?

California, in its current state, is a problem. But, it is not your states problem.

BTW, the moajority of California's leaving the state are from San Berdoo County, and the cities inland west, excluding the beach cities.

Anyhow, it's not a perfect solution, but it is a start:

About New California

Blogger Wynn Lloyd January 19, 2018 1:35 PM  

Overall, 60,000 whites leave the state per year. Not good.

Anonymous WaterBoy January 19, 2018 1:36 PM  

"That fear animates Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction..."

So the California government is finally willing to admit that they've mismanaged the state finances so badly that they now have to accept charity?

Funny, too, that the last time I checked, charity was voluntary. Will the State of California stop prosecuting those who stop paying their state taxes?

Poorly thought out idea.

Anonymous Krymneth January 19, 2018 1:40 PM  

They must really have nothing if they're still babbling about the theory that they can classify the California state tax as a charitable donation, because that was a transparently absurd legal theory when I first heard it several weeks ago. Anyone who has even a slight inkling as to how that works knows that gibbering lunacy.

Anonymous Peter B January 19, 2018 1:40 PM  

Elder Son wrote:...it's not a perfect solution, but it is a start:

About New California


One big problem I see is that New California includes all of California's border with Mexico, so illegals will have to cross New California to get to the Prog coastal strip.

Another is that the California legislature will have to approve it and pretty much all the state's water comes from what would be New California.

I think it's more likely that the devolution of the USA will begin in California than that New California is formed. I'd really like to be wrong about that, though.

Blogger Theophilus Chilton January 19, 2018 1:42 PM  

Come now. Every time the issue gets raised in Minnesota, the newspapers produce one argument after another to explain why people don't move based on tax rates. Because great schools! And art! And people!

Because everyone wants to live near Somalis.

Blogger mjusiq January 19, 2018 1:42 PM  

And in Europe the same trend - this is even news from The Fake News CNN from 2016: 10 000 millionairs fled France last year - 7000 from Paris, 6% of its millionairs:http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/01/news/millionaires-fleeing-france/index.html

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 19, 2018 1:46 PM  

In Los Angeles and San Diego it's not hard to find people who live there but say they don't. They picked up 2nd homes around Los Vegas or Yuma specifically for the purpose of declaring residence outside of California.

Blogger JACIII January 19, 2018 1:46 PM  

Dear California,
Squeal piggy! Squeal!
Sincerely,
The Rest of Us.

Blogger Starboard January 19, 2018 1:53 PM  

Apologies for the OT, but on the pedophile prosecution front:

Dr. Nassar was a well respected USA Gymnastics doctor until he pleaded guilty to molesting underage gymnasts. At his sentencing this week he complained that it's to difficult for him to listen to his victims.

"Larry Nassar Complains It’s Too Hard To Listen To Victims’ Stories, Judge Eviscerates Him"

http://www.scarymommy.com/larry-nassar-letter-to-judge-victims-stories/

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/16/98-women-and-girls-speaking-their-mind-larry-nassar-little-girls-grow-into-strong-women-who/1036575001/

One little girl, Kyle Stephens, was 5 or 6 six when it started.

"Stephens’s family often spent Sundays with the Nassars, the mothers cooking dinner while Nassar played with the children. Stephens was 6 the first time a game of hide-and-seek took a detour into the boiler room, she said, and 12 when she decided to tell her parents what Nassar was doing to her.

Standing a few feet behind her, Stephens’s mother wept Tuesday as her daughter explained what happened next: Nassar said their daughter was lying, and the parents believed him. They made Stephens apologize."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/at-larry-nassar-sentencing-hearing-a-parade-of-horror-and-catharsis/2018/01/18/19bed832-fc55-11e7-8f66-2df0b94bb98a_story.html?utm_term=.eb5ade34c7de

Blogger JACIII January 19, 2018 1:53 PM  

WaterBoy wrote:"That fear animates Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction..."

So the California government is finally willing to admit that they've mismanaged the state finances so badly that they now have to accept charity?

Funny, too, that the last time I checked, charity was voluntary. Will the State of California stop prosecuting those who stop paying their state taxes?

Poorly thought out idea.


I'm sure the IRS is totally going to fall for that.

Blogger James Dixon January 19, 2018 1:56 PM  

> Did you guys turn up the spam filter? Is Google messing with you? I

Google really isn't liking Pale Moon any more. :(

Anonymous GregMan January 19, 2018 1:57 PM  

"I beg your pardon! It's formally the Soviet Socialist Republic of New York."

Forgive me, Comrade Not a lefty. Hail Lenin!

Anonymous Jeff January 19, 2018 1:58 PM  

I just returned from renewing my driver's license and I have some good news, some bad news and some really bad news.

The good news is that the lineup was only 20 minutes long.

The bad news is that I was the only white guy in line.

The really bad news is most of the others in line were Asian women drivers.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction January 19, 2018 2:11 PM  

I would not be surprised if the Trump administration limited deductions specifically to hurt California and her sanctuary cities.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 19, 2018 2:12 PM  

I would guess a lot of the folks fleeing California are also firearms rights refugees. CA used to be a shooters paradise, all the big gun publishing magazines were based in CA in 1988, after moving out of Illinois in the late 1960s/early 1970s.

Now CA, CT, MA and New York are pretty much a gun person's worst nightmare, soon to be followed by NJ if the current legislation blocked by Christy is enacted.

Living in PA, I note we have benefited from a lot of these gun rights refugees, they are the traditional sort and PA is (less Philly which is becoming a giant slum) becoming more of an "alt-right" state. Very pro gun, very few folks seem at all upset about the "shitty" country comments (if true) and I live within driving distance of the NJ and NY border.

Which is very interesting as it makes the contrast between the free states and the leftist states even more extreme. We are slowly splitting into different nations with different values. It does indicate this will not end well.

Go Trump!

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 2:14 PM  

@37
Seriously, you think millions of Californians have moved to every other state of the union and voted for your own dumbocraps and repukocraps?

Demonstrably.
Have seen it in my state elections where a retired Bay Area exec out spent the local by about 5 : 1 and became a state Senator. The money spent came out of his own pocket and from Cali donors but a lot of the local work was done by other Californicators who had been here maybe 2 years.

Cali / Mexico colonization of Colorado has changed it hugely, Hickenlooper would never have been Governor in the 90's. Out of state money plus out of state voters.

Friends in Idaho say much the same thing about Boise.

Californicators should have to go back.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 2:20 PM  

@31 SQT
I live in NorCal in a pretty conservative area (everyone I know voted Trump even though it's pointless in this state) and leaving the state is a regular topic of conversation.

If you're far enough north, you could leave to the state of Jefferson without moving. If enough neighbors agree.

Anonymous DaveA January 19, 2018 2:20 PM  

Best case scenario: This brings liberal states around to supporting a repeal of the 16th Amendment, so that each state can decide for itself what tax rate is appropriate, instead of sending all its money off to a distant federal government that doesn't share its values.

Blogger Lazarus January 19, 2018 2:21 PM  

Meanwhile, in New York:

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced legislation to close the carried interest loophole, deliver fairness to all New York taxpayers, and help alleviate the impacts of the Trump administration's federal tax plan. This proposal will fix and equalize the tax treatment of income for private equity investors. Currently, investors pay lower tax rates than ordinary New Yorkers on their income by way of the carried interest loophole. The "Fairness Fix" could raise nearly $1.1 billion annually.

Anonymous BBGKB January 19, 2018 2:25 PM  

de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction

I propose being able to write off the portion of taxes I have to pay for crackbabies be considered charity.

the newspapers produce one argument after another to explain why people don't move based on tax rates

CA Millionaires if you move you wont get to see black/brown people shitting in the streets. By writing off state income taxes people in rural areas subsidize things like Free Truvada Prep clinics & abortions.

Fort Sumter. When the state government stands up to the federal government and says, "Make me" there's only two possible reactions. Both are ugly.

Don't shoot until you see the brown of Mike Bloomberg's teeth!

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 2:26 PM  

About New California

LOL! Move those deck chairs further back so they don't get wet from the seawater!

Blogger Lazarus January 19, 2018 2:28 PM  

Under the Census Bureau's new way to calculate poverty rates, California now ranks #1

Anonymous Elder Son January 19, 2018 2:30 PM  

Californicators should have to go back.

Meh. If I lived in your state, you'd probably call me the next thing to Hitler.

Re: Colorado. This was in the 80's.

retired Bay Area exec out spent the local by about 5 : 1: It's to bad that people are swayed by... money? I'll grant you that donations from any other state should not be allowed in anothers state election. And yes, there we go again, "We lost because Californians! It's all their fault! Because... local work!" I don't buy it for a second. You're just to lame to admit that your own locals are going lame. Some that I can admit about my own locals. It's embarrassing. Be embarrassed about your own and admit it.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 2:32 PM  

@56 Lazarus
Currently, investors pay lower tax rates than ordinary New Yorkers on their income by way of the carried interest loophole. The "Fairness Fix"

LOL! I'm sure that will go over well in Manhattan, especially Wall Street, not to mention the Hamptons. Trump totally anticipated this reaction.

Trump 2016 for the LOLZ!

Blogger Unknown January 19, 2018 2:32 PM  

Money is like water. It will always find its way down. California to Mexico. Build the wall and watch it flow.

Blogger SQT January 19, 2018 2:32 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:@31 SQT

I live in NorCal in a pretty conservative area (everyone I know voted Trump even though it's pointless in this state) and leaving the state is a regular topic of conversation.

If you're far enough north, you could leave to the state of Jefferson without moving. If enough neighbors agree.


That's the dream. But Ca is so necessary for the dems in national elections that I have a hard time believing this will ever happen.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 19, 2018 2:33 PM  

de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction

So, how is that going to work?

Will you be able to tell your employer not to deduct any state or local taxes from your pay? Will you get to keep your money if you decline to donate it to the state and city?

I don't think they have thought this out too well, but then it's mostly wetbacks jabbering on.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 2:39 PM  

Californicators should have to go back.

Meh. If I lived in your state, you'd probably call me the next thing to Hitler.


Nah, but I'd help pack your U-Haul.

Re: Colorado. This was in the 80's.

So? Hickenlooper could not have been elected back then I am sure, but demographic changes plus Bloomberg money did the job. Liberteeenies got "muh POT!" and everyone else got a stupid ban on gun magazines.

retired Bay Area exec out spent the local by about 5 : 1: It's to bad that people are swayed by... money? I'll grant you that donations from any other state should not be allowed in anothers state election.

It was in 2008, a very big year for progtards. Plus he spent about $85K out of his own pocket, pretty big money at our level. But he also ran in a state Senate district drawn to include the biggest upscale retirement area here.

And yes, there we go again, "We lost because Californians! It's all their fault! Because... local work!"

Cool story, bro. Fact remains that if I move enough Mexicans into your area, politics will change toward the D's. If I move enough Chinese in, same result.

If enough Californians move in? Same result.

I don't buy it for a second. You're just to lame to admit that your own locals are going lame. Some that I can admit about my own locals. It's embarrassing. Be embarrassed about your own and admit it.

There's lots to be embarrassed about around here, but demographic change is demographic change is demographic change. Move enough "conservatives" from someplace like SoCal or NYC into a normal area and the politics will change.

Californicators ought to have to go back. How about a case of ammo in the trunk as a going away present?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 19, 2018 2:43 PM  

Lazarus wrote:Currently, investors pay lower tax rates than ordinary New Yorkers on their income by way of the carried interest loophole. The "Fairness Fix" could raise nearly $1.1 billion annually.
The "Fairness Fix" could drive nearly $200BB in wealth to Connecticut and New Jersey.
FTFY

Blogger bob kek mando January 19, 2018 2:43 PM  

Gov. Jerry Brown said, “This was an assault by the Republicans in Congress against California.”

no Jerry. this was a personal assault. against you.

i think you should secede. there's no other option for a man of Integrity.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 19, 2018 2:47 PM  

I fully support Jerry Brown in this initiative.

Because, honestly, I kind of like my targets packed into a nice tight group.

Anonymous bearspaw January 19, 2018 2:56 PM  

If the IRS puts the kibosh on Cali plans to put the burden back on the feds, never fear. Those Dem rascals are nothing if not persistent. The next step will be to retro tax those who leave for x number of years.

Blogger pyrrhus January 19, 2018 3:03 PM  

“This was an assault by the Republicans in Congress against California.”
Yes, astonishing and beautiful! Also against New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Oregon....
It's incredibly stupid (and therefore typical) to think that paying taxes could ever be a charitable deduction, but SJWs in California are special.....

Blogger pyrrhus January 19, 2018 3:05 PM  

If the IRS puts the kibosh on Cali plans to put the burden back on the feds, never fear. Those Dem rascals are nothing if not persistent. The next step will be to retro tax those who leave for x number of years.

That has been specifically struck down in some of the Court's Interstate Commerce decisions, so not going to happen....

Anonymous bearspaw January 19, 2018 3:17 PM  

@70 When Rush Limbaugh moved his operation to Florida year's ago he claimed he was forced to prove he was no longer a resident. The state claimed he still made revenue in NY so was subject to taxes. I don't know how that ended up, but I think the state legislators could conjure up some law (s) to attempt to claw back some money.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener January 19, 2018 3:21 PM  

When Trump said Mexico was going to pay for the wall, who saw it taking this form?

Blogger James Dixon January 19, 2018 3:23 PM  

> I don't know how that ended up, but I think the state legislators could conjure up some law (s) to attempt to claw back some money.

Good luck collecting.

Anonymous Elder Son January 19, 2018 3:35 PM  

@64 Because YOUR LOCALS don't have the sense to say... But, but, but... he/she is from MexiKaliForniKation.

FFS. Some of you actually believe that if your local/state elections are won by a lib/cuck... IT'S THOSE CALEEFERNIANS! Suck it up and consider that just maybe your state(s) are just going lib/cuck. Because we all know that every state educational system, except Calif., are filled to the brim with virtuous cuckservatives. And, are all White.

Blogger bob kek mando January 19, 2018 3:58 PM  

VD
Who subsidizes whom?




hey, hey, hey. i have it from ALL the finest economists that California pays way more per capita than most other states in the union.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 19, 2018 3:59 PM  

Blastmaster wrote:
Charitable deduction? Does this mean the. Federal taxes I have been paying were voluntary?

Absolutely. I think it was Beelzebubba or perhaps Algore who referred to taxes as "voluntary contributions". I think the Gatti family used this term for monies paid as monthly contributions for "fire insurance" and the like. Completely voluntary. Just don't be the first to stop volunteering. VD's dad stopped volunteering and look what happened to him.

Blogger Ingot9455 January 19, 2018 3:59 PM  

@70 @71 Rush has mentioned that he has to track every minute of every hour he spends in NY so as to prove that he doesn't do any 'work' there - or else they'll tax and audit him.

Anonymous WaterBoy January 19, 2018 4:17 PM  

JACIII @47: "I'm sure the IRS is totally going to fall for that."

It should be noted that contributions to certain government entities are deductible, per Publication 526. The idea isn't really that farfetched, as this paper discussing its merits demonstrates.

However, as has been noted several times here, charitable contributions are made voluntarily, while paying assessed taxes are not. IANAL, but it occurs to me that it there's a point it's liable to get hung up on in tax court, it would be here.

If California is going to pursue this option, it would probably need to do an extreme overhaul to its tax system.

Anonymous WaterBoy January 19, 2018 4:27 PM  

BTW, this gift/tax question is related to the same What Is A Tax question we've encountered several times here in Colorado over TABOR.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 19, 2018 5:03 PM  

@50 Jeff
The really bad news is most of the others in line were Asian women drivers.
---

I have heard of the infamous DWA - Driving While Asian.

Blogger Will January 19, 2018 5:19 PM  

Around 2000, Cali hit those making $1M/year with a 10% additional tax. There were 15k in that group. 1/3 of them beat feet! The state claimed they broke even. Bull, they didn't look to see how much business and jobs left with them.

Recently, they added an additional 3% to that millionaires tax rate. They attempted this a couple times some years earlier, but couldn't pass it. So, figure their tax fiasco memories only last perhaps 15 years.

Anonymous Anonymous January 19, 2018 5:20 PM  

The charitable contributions idea is a DOA. Origin of the claim doctrine shuts it down immediately

Anonymous TD January 19, 2018 6:22 PM  

@56 And 2019 headlines will feature 1.2 billion lost from investors decamping.

Anonymous Pitchfork Rebel January 19, 2018 6:24 PM  

"That fear animates Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction"

Geez, he's stupid. States are already qualified organizations according to the IRS, but taxes are not charitable contributions. Oh yeah, his bill would do nothing about changing FEDERAL tax law.

Anonymous Pitchfork Rebel January 19, 2018 6:25 PM  

"That fear animates Senate President pro tem Kevin de León’s bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction"

Geez, he's stupid. States are already qualified organizations according to the IRS, but taxes are not charitable contributions. Oh yeah, his bill would do nothing about changing FEDERAL tax law.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 7:04 PM  

@76
@64 Because YOUR LOCALS don't have the sense to say... But, but, but... he/she is from MexiKaliForniKation.


Dude, this is the wrong place for a true belief in magic dirt.

Blogger James Dixon January 19, 2018 7:14 PM  

> hey, hey, hey. i have it from ALL the finest economists that California pays way more per capita than most other states in the union.

Would you believe the LA Times? "In 2015, the New York state comptroller did another study without all that imaginary balanced-budget nonsense. The conclusion was that California got back 99 cents on the dollar."

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-skelton-california-taxes-washington-20171009-story.html

Anonymous Sam Fisher January 19, 2018 9:23 PM  

I work in legal. Two funny things.
1. Everyone hates Fulton County (Atlanta) Courts and says they are the worst anywhere.
2. We also have dealings in Florida. Last year Miami courts apparently had such a budget crunch they changed their policy to only answering the phone 9am-12noon. Funny a county of 2.7 million people cant afford courts that answer the phone 9-5 like any other... Maybe the hispanic tax base doesnt pay well.

Blogger Dwight House January 19, 2018 9:25 PM  

We Californian lawmakers plan to announce a solution that will address these budget shortfalls. We will solve this problem by increasing the minimum wage to a "livable standard." This plan is expected to work by... some method, we're not really sure, but it makes us feel good and Paul Krugman likes it, so we are going to go with that.

Wait, where are you going?

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 11:25 PM  

We are seeing the same dynamic here in the People's Republic of New York.

You've been seeing that dynamic in NY (and NJ, and other long-time democrat hellholes) for decades. It's what drove so many I-Love-NY types to California, which they ruined.

All you folks saying Californians have ruined your states? What you're really seeing is the inevitable results of the New Yorkers, Joiseyites and Oakies who ruined California finally running out of resources to strip mine in CA and moving on to the next victim.

CA is a big state. It took a while for the toxic waste pouring in from the North East to fill it up. But it finally did and now it's spilling over onto the rest of you. I grew up with it.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 11:38 PM  

bill that would allow California residents to write off their state taxes on their federal returns as a charitable deduction

If I was the G-E, I'd tweet a link to the IRS guidelines on filing for 501(c)3 status and say "unlike my predecessor, my administration is committed to fairly reviewing charitable status. I look forward to receiving CA's application"

Followed by a tweet pointing out it would be a violation of Federal Civil Rights to use law enforcement to compel anyone to make charitable contributions. Actually, even better would be to let the law pass and then prosecute the CA treasurer for attempting to compel people to make charitable contributions. Not to mention mail fraud for mailing people their tax forms...

Blogger Revelation Means Hope January 20, 2018 1:55 AM  

Riding my motorcycle to and from work each day, I get to lane split and thereby see hundreds more cars than I used to in my commute. I watch every car like a hawk, and also observe who is texting, eating, putting on makeup, and so forth.

Asian women aren't the greatest drivers. Neither are all our muslim imports driving the new taxis for Uber and Lyft.

No, by far the $hittiest drivers are black women. As soon as I see certain car behaviors like erratic drifting, slowing and speeding up, slow drifting, I make a personal bet what kind of driver I'll see when I pass.

Yep.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 20, 2018 2:25 AM  

@92
Actually, even better would be to let the law pass and then prosecute the CA treasurer for attempting to compel people to make charitable contributions.

Perp walk! Perp walk! Perp walk! With leg irons!

Anonymous Hoss January 20, 2018 9:09 PM  

Republicans should beat California to the punch and do away with all charitable tax deductions.

Anonymous MaMu77 January 21, 2018 7:16 PM  

And yet, they're still generously compensated to raise children on their lonesome. I don't want to become the cross-minority "black" version of BBGKB (BBBKB, I guess), but this is what happens when the government decides that a group of people who are too young to vote or drink or sign contracts or work are somehow magically able to raise functional (not great, good, decent or even competent) adults.

Real talk, I live around nothing but black people (yes, there's more diversity every day, but virtually every person who I speak to on a daily basis is Caribbean or African). Dead broke black families with fathers create children with more self-control than the single mothers with good jobs. It's the worst thing about current African American culture. It's not the violence, the idiocy or the race-based monomania that black single mothers had/have reduced my race to, it's the self-satisfied self esteem and (simultaneous, albeit rarely if ever noted) lack of self worth that is the hallmark of black America.

Blogger Stan_qaz January 23, 2018 12:54 AM  

A few years back California and a few other states were taxing retirements of non-residents that had earned the retirement by working in state. That did not go well for them as they were forced to abandon the taxes.

https://www.sapling.com/7751181/california-income-taxable-outside-california

There is an Recreational Vehicle (motorhomes and trailers mostly) business, Escapees RV Club, that caters to retired RV folks by among many other good things, offering domiciles in Texas, Florida and South Dakota, all no income-tax states. By far the largest number of members are from CA for some reason.

Domicile via mail service: https://escapees.com/support/mail-service

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