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Thursday, January 18, 2018

Winning: corporate tax edition

Say what you will about the God-Emperor, but his policies actually work as designed:
Apple just announced on Wednesday it will bring back hundreds of billions of dollars from overseas to fund investment in the U.S. and likely increase its capital returns.

"Apple, already the largest US taxpayer, anticipates repatriation tax payments of approximately $38 billion as required by recent changes to the tax law. A payment of that size would likely be the largest of its kind ever made," the company said in the release.

Using the new 15.5 percent repatriation tax rate, the $38 billion tax payment disclosed by Apple means they are planning a $245 billion repatriation.

The tax overhaul, which President Donald Trump signed into law last month, also lowered the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent.

After the repatriation tax payment, the company will have $207 billion left over from the move it can use for investments, acquisitions, stock buybacks or larger dividends. Apple said it plans more than $30 billion in capital expenditures in the U.S. during the next five years.

Apple had $252.3 billion in overseas cash as of the end of September quarter, according to SEC filings, so that means the company is paying tax on nearly all of that foreign cash.
$38 billion is a lot of money. And I note that it's considerably more than the $21.6 billion the Department of Homeland Security said it would cost to build a big beautiful wall on the southern border.

Also, there are going to be some very sad European bankers and investment managers this morning. All those glorious fees gone in the blink of an eye. No wonder they hate the God-Emperor so much. It was very smart to make the repatriation fee even lower than the reduced corporate tax fee.

Labels: ,

82 Comments:

Blogger Abyssus Invocat January 18, 2018 8:08 AM  

Reactions to PDT when does what he says he would do remind of the shock on the faces of churchians when they discover that the Pope really is Catholic.

Blogger Shimshon January 18, 2018 8:09 AM  

I think a new "winning" label is called for. Still not tired.

Blogger Gordon Scott January 18, 2018 8:11 AM  

$200 billion is serious money to anyone but the Pentagon. One can invest in a whole lot of innovation.

Or, Apple can hire thousands of tranny handicapped queer dragonkin! Imagine how much fun those office parties could be....

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 18, 2018 8:16 AM  

If I were an odd combination of cynical and naive I'd call that baiting the trap. However since I'm a different combination of cynical and naive, reasonably these companies certainly checked the continual tax fee before even considering moving money back through the one-time-cheap-ticket system.

Blogger Shimshon January 18, 2018 8:16 AM  

It's more a tax on foreign profits than a repatriation tax. It's paid regardless of fund movement. It looks like Apple, like many companies, is figuring that if they have to pay a US tax on foreign profits, it may as well repatriate them. That's probably because they will get a bigger RoI on spending the money domestically, especially with a competitive new tax regime in place.

Blogger The Rev January 18, 2018 8:18 AM  

Twitter comments indicate he's backing off from DACA friendliness too.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 18, 2018 8:20 AM  

The Corporate Tax Rate was one of those easy fixes that even the Europeans have done, but the Multi-nationals in the States had already found ways around the issue. Still, it's hilarious to see this happening.

Apple, Google, Facebook et al had been offering Corporate Bonds against the money, since it would cost so much to move it on-shore, so the ones really "having a sad" will be the bond underwriters.

Inter-related to this is what is coming next: In-sourcing. The rise of mostly robotic factories in consumer goods means you aren't getting any actual cost savings by building in China and then having the completed parts shipped. (Along with potential tariffs on finished goods to come.) It's going to be a while, but expect Apple to probably be the first to go that way for significant parts of their global distribution chain.

Still, I'm not tired of winning.

Blogger James Dixon January 18, 2018 8:27 AM  

The only bad news for Apple investors in this is from this Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-tax/apple-to-pay-38-billion-in-repatriation-tax-idUSKBN1F62FJ

Which indicates Apple is looking at building a new campus. That often the sign of a company that has peaked and is on it's way down.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 18, 2018 8:30 AM  

@5 The Rev

Trump's position on DACA probably hasn't changed, but there's never been a deal to be had. Dems & GOPe are in "give us amnesty and enjoy it" mode. Trump never takes a sucker's deal, so he's been Machiavellian the whole way down. (He also just signaled NAFTA's end, but that was a given on Jan 20th, 2017.)

If the Swamp wanted a deal, some sort of "Renewal Work Permit", under a current category, would have been political doable for the MAGA base and the Middle, as long as it solved the rest of the current structural problems. But, no, the Swamp refuses. Okay.

Say it with me, "Emergency Budgetary Powers". Also, Trump can put all of the hurt on the Federal workers who all vote Democrat anyway. What do you think 2-week loss of pay will do to them? I hope those Federal Employee Unions are ready for what's coming next.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 18, 2018 8:30 AM  

"Twitter comments indicate he's backing off from DACA friendliness too."

That would be a perfect seesaw attack after "shitholes". "Oh, those places aren't shitholes? Cool, we're sending the dreamers back to fulfill their dreams in the commendable countries of their birth."

Anonymous Looking Glass January 18, 2018 8:32 AM  

@7 James Dixon

Apple has been building up a CPU & GPU department in Austin for about a year, so expect them to also start looking at building their own Fabrication plants. Apple is going to look to vertically integrate the entire consumer products part of their company. They've got enough Cash to do it, but it'll take time to build up the necessary staff.

Blogger James Dixon January 18, 2018 8:33 AM  

> Twitter comments indicate he's backing off from DACA friendliness too.

He made the deal clear to them. Fund the wall, end chain migration, and end the immigration lottery and they could have DACA. They said no, we'd rather shut the government down. He said, that's fine with me.

Blogger James Dixon January 18, 2018 8:35 AM  

> Say it with me, "Emergency Budgetary Powers". Also, Trump can put all of the hurt on the Federal workers who all vote Democrat anyway. What do you think 2-week loss of pay will do to them? I hope those Federal Employee Unions are ready for what's coming next.

He can start by laying off the ninth district court. Can you imagine the screams from the media?

Blogger James Dixon January 18, 2018 8:37 AM  

> Apple has been building up a CPU & GPU department in Austin for about a year,

I had heard they were exploring he option. I hadn't realized they were that far along.

Blogger pdwalker January 18, 2018 8:39 AM  

All that fresh, new, tax money. Just imagine how fast the government can piss it away.

Now imagine Trump allocating all that money for the wall, and the peppering the wall with “proudly sponsored by Apple” signs.

(Yes, I know that’s not the way it works, but I can amuse myself with crazy ideas)

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 18, 2018 8:39 AM  

Isn't voters in the employ of the government logically a sort of conflict of interests? Maybe we should force the fedgov "to be in all ways above reproach."

Drain the swamp.

Blogger The Kurgan January 18, 2018 8:44 AM  

Abyssus,
Except, that as an actual Catholic, I know very well that the current "Pope" is not even marginally Christian, never mind Catholic.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 18, 2018 8:57 AM  

@13 James Dixon

Know a guy in the space & region, Apple has been hiring all of the talent they can find and have made clear they're going to have a big Austin presence. Their recent A11 launch is as much of their own IP as possible, which means they're headed towards "in-house".

Give them 4-5 years and they'll be running their own CPUs in their Macintosh products, add in a robotic factor and they can build all of their NA & European supply somewhere in NA with a very tiny staff. Given the Cash they have, there's little reason not to go that way. There is actual ROI to be had with 50+ Billion investments, which is rare to find.

@15 Azure Amaranthine

Yup, even FDR knew that, but Democrats needed money, thus Public Unions.

Anonymous Reenay January 18, 2018 9:03 AM  

Good news. Next step: dissociating the Deep State from the corporates. No more spying consumer devices.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope January 18, 2018 9:15 AM  

One interesting fact about Apple. They are spending a lot of money around their headquarters, and it is known that there are a lot of well paid workers around there. Not far away, there are LOTS and LOTS of illegals in San Jose.

So, the next little expectation is greatly increased crime, such as auto burglaries. Sure enough, up over 30% in that area in the last year. San Francisco too.

Blogger seeingsights January 18, 2018 9:26 AM  

A strong economy is also good foreign policy. The Trump tax cuts now puts competitive pressure on Europe. This puts additional strain on the European Union.
In 1981, Reagan tax cuts were enacted. Then years later, the Soviet Union collapsed.
In ten years, the European Union will be gone.

Anonymous Andrew E. January 18, 2018 9:28 AM  

If the Swamp wanted a deal, some sort of "Renewal Work Permit", under a current category, would have been political doable for the MAGA base and the Middle, as long as it solved the rest of the current structural problems.

This is what the Goodlatte Bill in the House did, which NumbersUSA actually endorsed after opposing all legislative amnesties since their founding in 1996. It gave DACA holders renewable 3-year work permits in exchange for basically the White House's full 70-point immigration plan. And with the DACA holders being such a well-defined group (thanks to Obama and his database) it would probably be very difficult for the courts to try and break the amnesty open for everyone as is Ann Coulter's greatest fear.

Blogger pyrrhus January 18, 2018 9:29 AM  

The EU is cringing at Trump's tax cuts and repatriation incentives, because the EU is a strip mining operation...38 billion from Apple, pretty soon we're talking real money!

Blogger pyrrhus January 18, 2018 9:32 AM  

"And with the DACA holders being such a well-defined group (thanks to Obama and his database) it would probably be very difficult for the courts to try and break the amnesty open for everyone as is Ann Coulter's greatest fear."

Afraid not, because the present Federal Courts have gone full commie as a result of the infiltration of law schools in the '70s and '80s...Until those Judges are replaced, any amnesty is an open invitation to open borders...

Anonymous Andrew E. January 18, 2018 9:37 AM  

Until those Judges are replaced, any amnesty is an open invitation to open borders...

Enforcing the existing laws is an open invitation to open borders with the current judiciary. So we have that problem regardless.

Anonymous Whiskey January 18, 2018 9:39 AM  

Drumph is not “Machiavellian all the way down” he is Big Macs sitting on Filet O’Fishes on top of hot air. If you Alt-Right retards don’t get it yet, check your tiki torches at the last-stand bunker. Drumph is finished, will be impeached and this Apple deal will never ever happen.

Blogger SemiSpook37 January 18, 2018 9:39 AM  

Abyssus Invocat wrote:Reactions to PDT when does what he says he would do remind of the shock on the faces of churchians when they discover that the Pope really is Catholic.

Agree with the Kurgan on this one. Membership with the Society of Jesus doesn't automatically consider one to be a practicing Catholic. See James Martin as another example of this.

In that same vein, I wonder how much it hurt for Tim Cook to actually admit that this was happening for Apple, given that he actually opposed Trump in the first place?

Anonymous WinstonWebb January 18, 2018 9:52 AM  

Put a date and reason for impeachment on that prediction, Whiskey, or admit that YOU are all "hot air".

Anonymous Looking Glass January 18, 2018 10:07 AM  

@21 Andrew E.

It would have been an "acceptable" deal, which is exactly why the Left & the Swamp can't allow it. 25% of the DACA would get booted within 3 years for criminal charges anyway, so everything + kitchen sink for a small number of work permits would have been a great deal for the Country and 95% of people. Problem is the Swamp has its own interests, though the one where they drive the country to impale them on spears still really does strike me as self-defeating.

The real fun is going to be seeing what the Trump Team has planned for "Emergency Budgetary Powers". They've known this was always possible since the Fall, so Trump will clearly have explicit things planned. We're a little over 3 weeks from the signing of a tax bill that screwed over a lot of Blue States, so this is going to be a riot.

For any that are going to be caught up in the carnage, might I recommend a Dave Ramsey course? Though that would have been better 6 months ago.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 18, 2018 10:09 AM  

"Enforcing the existing laws is an open invitation to open borders with the current judiciary."

It's pretty simple, just as it always has been. Either you kill the traitors opening the gates, or your posterity disappears in a haze of fecal parasites.


Don't touch the poop. Don't let it through your gates. Don't touch the troll or shill poop either.

Anonymous WinstonWebb January 18, 2018 10:12 AM  

...might I recommend a Dave Ramsey course?

Dude is spot on when it comes to debt, but his investment advice has very little value.

Anonymous Philalethes January 18, 2018 10:15 AM  

Apple shuttle buses rerouted following suspected attacks

Anonymous Sorcerygod January 18, 2018 10:17 AM  

The good news on the corporate front is more mixed on our individual front. I mean, DAMN, the avg wage per employee has been STAGNANT for decades, hasn't it?

It's tax season again, and that means the corporations pretend we pay our taxes while they actually shoulder the burden for us.

In point of fact, in Canada at least, the only taxes are the federal and provincial sales taxes. Absent Alberta (which until the oil runs out has no provincial sales tax), the combined basic tax is about 13%. That's the basic real tax of citizens. Companies pay all the rest.

Why? Well, check this scenario: You get hired, and the boss-man goes, "Well, Bob, you're very impressive. You'll have a starting salary of $75,000 . . ."

Then you do the math and "after taxes" this might amount to $40,000. But wait. Do you actually take $35,000 from your wallet --

[continues:]

jump to My Article on PersCorp Taxes

Blogger JACIII January 18, 2018 10:20 AM  

The Kurgan wrote:Abyssus,

Except, that as an actual Catholic, I know very well that the current "Pope" is not even marginally Christian, never mind Catholic.



Getting a little slow in your old age, Kurgan. That comment went unrefuted for 36 minutes. My worldview was starting to shift...

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 18, 2018 10:21 AM  

It seems likely that a lot of that money being repatriated will be used for SJW causes, like propping up more Elizabeth-Holmes-like endeavors. Although, that might not be a bad thing as they all fail spectacularly.

Blogger bob kek mando January 18, 2018 10:33 AM  

did you forget your /sarc tag, Whiskey?

or are you wearing your dress into the women's rest room?

Blogger James Dixon January 18, 2018 10:40 AM  

> Dude is spot on when it comes to debt, but his investment advice has very little value.

That's putting it mildly.

Blogger Miguel January 18, 2018 10:44 AM  

No wonder that even low-IQ enrichers have doubled their support for him.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 18, 2018 11:01 AM  

"when they discover that the Pope really is Catholic"

Hope you aren't referring to Frankie the Marxist. Unlike with being an American, a piece of paper is not enough to make one a Catholic. You actually have to believe in the religion, which Frankie clearly doesn't.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 18, 2018 11:01 AM  

This is low-hanging fruit and has been for years. Except for the "can't do that because reasons" Gordian knot in Swampistan on the Potomac.

Not tired of winning! Actually looking forward to a SOTU for once!

Blogger tuberman January 18, 2018 11:02 AM  

pdwalker wrote:All that fresh, new, tax money. Just imagine how fast the government can piss it away.

Now imagine Trump allocating all that money for the wall, and the peppering the wall with “proudly sponsored by Apple” signs.

(Yes, I know that’s not the way it works, but I can amuse myself with crazy ideas)


Nah, you amuse yourself with cuck ideas. Please try to control spouting shear stupidity.

The God Emperor has put in place a couple of the best people to prevent bankruptcy in history. There will be only spending that is necessary to save the country. He knows one of the several ways the Globalists can regroup and hide, so they can come back again later, is to bankrupt the USA, and for his own grandchildren sake, he will not let that happen.

There is nothing that has happened so far in the Trump administration that even suggests that your take on things has any clue. There IS a new sheriff in town, so why do you suppose he will do the same as the last three decades. Who are you? Tell us about your stance, completely, and don't just snark at the present administration from hiding.

Anonymous Just another commenter January 18, 2018 11:03 AM  

That is unpossible. According to Princess Pelosi, it will be nothing but crumbs that the tax bill will leave Americans.

Blogger tuberman January 18, 2018 11:24 AM  

37. VFM #7634,

Yep, the current pope is not a Catholic at all, and is at least a Marxist, but there is evidence that he's much worse then what most think of as a Marxist. Should all come out some day.

Then again, many, many Churchian Churches have more to hide than just convergence too. All that Globalist money coming to them -- some are in deep, and some are just fools.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 18, 2018 11:32 AM  

There's a lot more than just Apple's quarter-trillion dollars to be repatriated. Most of the big tech companies have been accumulating cash in Europe for decades because of repatriation taxes. Microsoft, Intel, Oracle... expect them to have bundles to bring back too.

On the immigration front, we had a recruiting/hiring status meeting with all the hiring managers from the Seattle area studios this week. One of the other guys reported that the Dot-Indian QA tech he made an offer to months ago couldn't get her H1-B transferred.

Blogger James Dixon January 18, 2018 11:46 AM  

> One of the other guys reported that the Dot-Indian QA tech he made an offer to months ago couldn't get her H1-B transferred.

Trumps been working on this, but it's obviously been a back burner issue. There were a couple of news stories about the extent to which H1-B's have taken over the market:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/more-than-half-of-seattles-software-developers-were-born-outside-u-s/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/17/h-1b-immigrants-make-up-nearly-three-quarters-of-silicon-valley-tech-workforce-report-says/

The sooner he attacks this full bore, the better.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 18, 2018 11:55 AM  

On the immigration front, we had a recruiting/hiring status meeting with all the hiring managers from the Seattle area studios this week. One of the other guys reported that the Dot-Indian QA tech he made an offer to months ago couldn't get her H1-B transferred.

Oh, I weep for them. NOT! Send them back! And stop giving spouses work permits as well. American Jobs For Americans FIRST!

Anonymous Jack Amok January 18, 2018 11:58 AM  

Trumps been working on this, but it's obviously been a back burner issue. There were a couple of news stories about the extent to which H1-B's have taken over the market:

Yeah, Redmond is Little Mumbai. Certainly didn't seem to be a requirement for an H1-B that the applicant know how to write code, but at least it appears they were required to know how to use indoor plumbing, so we're better off than Paris.

Blogger Rony Atlia January 18, 2018 12:09 PM  

7 College
7 College Degree 1st Year Result
39th BCS Circular

Blogger tuberman January 18, 2018 12:17 PM  

The last comics I read, were the Classic Comics, and at a fairly early age, as I'd read the Classic comics a couple of times, then go directly to reading the novels.

Lots of cuck reviewers seem to getting extra views from their YT thoughts on Alt*Hero, and that's great for this period. It gets the word out, and many customers will see for themselves.

Appreciate the broad line from Arkhaven, and I am stoked! I'll probably buy full Quantum Mortis book soon to read ahead of the comic editions. SF the way it use to be.

Blogger tuberman January 18, 2018 12:23 PM  

One thing at a time. Trump needs India right now to keep his thumb on China's expansion . Tata has strong influence on India, but many in India want Nationalism, and Tata is Globalist. Tata is the biggest influence over H!B expansion into USA.

Blogger tuberman January 18, 2018 12:31 PM  

Should be interesting as Tata IS GLOBALIST, meaning they help hire many Muslims (especially Pakis, but not only), and this is not popular with most Indian Nationalists. How can this be played? Connect the dots (pun intended).

Blogger Brett baker January 18, 2018 12:40 PM  

We will allow hot, single females in though, right?

Blogger Brett baker January 18, 2018 12:43 PM  

$38 billion would go a long way towards fixing our inland waterways.

Blogger Brett baker January 18, 2018 12:44 PM  

$38 billion would go a long way towards fixing our inland waterways.

Blogger Brett baker January 18, 2018 12:44 PM  

We will allow hot, single females in though, right?

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 18, 2018 12:59 PM  

We will allow hot, single females in though, right?

I hope so but generally they won't be coming from India.

Blogger Dedd Sirius January 18, 2018 1:21 PM  

Plenty of hot chicks already inside the border. If you want a foreign hot chick go bang her in Bangladesh but she has to stay there. Not even any more hot Russian chicks can come in.

Blogger tuberman January 18, 2018 2:13 PM  

Brett baker wrote:We will allow hot, single females in though, right?

All hot females of this type are interested in chain migrating their whole family over through you, and you can still see this on any college campus. It's their game.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella January 18, 2018 2:18 PM  

The high school robotics league challenge this year is to build a robot that can scan a pattern, grab a brick and put it in the pattern grid, almost like a warehouse robot. It's an international competition.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 18, 2018 2:33 PM  

I am hearing that H1B extensions are also facing more scrutiny and being rejected more often. Sounds good to me.

Anonymous Blastmaster January 18, 2018 3:14 PM  

There are hot chicks in Bangladesh?

Blogger Gary January 18, 2018 3:25 PM  

US budget deficit last year was $670 billion.
$38 billion is chicken-feed.
The US and its dollar are toast, 2031, mark the year.

Blogger mike18xx January 18, 2018 3:28 PM  

$85B will keep this bloated sow government operating for seven and half days. After that, it's back to you rolling the pig.

-- The federal budget is over $4 trillion now.

Anonymous Jeff January 18, 2018 4:13 PM  

US Budget deficit last year was $670 billion.
$38 billion is chicken-feed.
The US and its dollar are toast, 2031, mark the year.


The Japanese govt deficit is way larger than the that of the US yet Japan is still fine (weird but fine).

The US may indeed be toast by 2031 but it won't be due to the govt deficit.

The difference between Japan and the USA is that the former is still a nation.

The difference between the US and Japan

Blogger Dire Badger January 18, 2018 4:37 PM  

Of course, the Nevertrumpers over at Zerohedge are probably patting each other on the back at some imagined mistake that just proves he is an evil, stupid, jew-loving Fraud.

Blogger Gary January 18, 2018 4:53 PM  

@Jeff,

The Yen will also be very toasty by 2031 and sterling, but not the mighty euro. I have no doubt that America's combined trade/budget deficits will sink the USD to oblivion. The world is already heading elsewhere, or hadn't you noticed? Say bye bye to USD reserve status, hello to wheelbarrows.

Blogger CJ January 18, 2018 7:02 PM  

We will allow hot, single females in though, right?

To borrow somebody else's line, if Miss World contestants were massing on the southern border, the feminists of America would be chanting, "Donald Trump, build the wall!"

Blogger Azure Amaranthine January 18, 2018 7:26 PM  

"All hot females of this type are interested in chain migrating their whole family over through you"

Yeah, that's pretty much universally true. Low hanging fruit has something of a tendency to be poisoned.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 18, 2018 8:17 PM  

@42 Jack Amok

One of the other guys reported that the Dot-Indian QA tech he made an offer to months ago couldn't get her H1-B transferred.
---

Back to the shithole and hire an American to do that job.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 18, 2018 8:24 PM  

@57 Ariadne Umbrella
The high school robotics league challenge this year is to build a robot that can scan a pattern, grab a brick and put it in the pattern grid, almost like a warehouse robot. It's an international competition.
---

Could these robots be tweaked to do something such as BUILD A WALL ?

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 18, 2018 9:23 PM  

@67: The bricks are likely less than 1kg in weight ... so the robots are not much use. And a lot of the H1Bs do the coding for their kids.

Anonymous Mr. Rational January 18, 2018 11:09 PM  

We will make the H-1B's program the robots with which we wall them out.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 12:15 AM  

The bricks are likely less than 1kg in weight ... so the robots are not much use. And a lot of the H1Bs do the coding for their kids.

My son's team, all White kids, mopped the floor with the H1B Jrs. And it's the 15 / 16 year olds doing the programming (but you're probably right about the H1Bs doing it for their kids - which probably explains their poor performance). It was pretty funny, in one match, our team had a malfunction and the robot died half way through. The H1B team from one of the Redmond schools were high-fiving each other that they beat my kid's team in that match, because we were considered almost unbeatable. But we still won the tourney (fixed the bot between matches) and are competing for State finals next month.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 12:18 AM  

Back to the shithole and hire an American to do that job.

Yeah, I managed to hire several American QA techs last year (though one of them is second generation Chinese, but at least he was born on the Magic Dirt).

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 12:49 AM  

A field guide to Dot-Indian H1-Bs (though some have 'graduated' to green card / permanent resident status)

Type 1 - the competent unicorns.
Even with an average IQ of 80, a billion people are bound to produce a few good software engineers. These are them. They were the pioneers, the ones who 20-25 years ago convinced US tech execs that Indians were naturally good programmers. These unicorns, most of whom have been here for 2+ decades and are pushing middle aged, can be trusted to write functional software, but they have three disadvantages:

1) there aren't very many of them.
2) they cost as much as an equivalent American
3) they are highly prone to nepotism, meaning they bring in...

Type 2 - the nearly-competent cheap pool
Fifteen years ago, these were the typical H1-Bs from India, significantly below-average programmers who would work for peanuts and, with the right combination of supervision and obfuscation from the Type 1's who hired them, could appear to be creating functional software, though it was at best a short-term success and would soon implode.

Type 3 - the Itinerant Incompetents
Today's prototype H1-B, these are the hordes of Pajeets and Sanjays who drift back and forth across the continent with a typical tenure of 6 to 12 months (never more than 18) with any one company, the length of the tenure determined by how long it took the company to a) realize Sanjay was completely incompetent and b) get the machinery in motion to fire him.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 1:19 AM  

Type 2 - the nearly-competent cheap pool

Can confirm. Some of them drifted back into grad school where they write bizarre code that only has to work once to get a passing grade. They also cheat in ridiculous ways like stealing other students code but failing to edit the comments that include stuff like "author / date / rev number". Duh.

They all have to go back.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 19, 2018 1:20 AM  

Type 3 - the Itinerant Incompetents

Don't they all work for Microsoft on the latest revision to Windows?

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 1:29 AM  

Don't they all work for Microsoft on the latest revision to Windows?

Actually, that's mostly the Type 2's. The Type 3's are spread across the country, ruining smaller tech projects from sea to shining sea.

Possibly because MSFT had a large number of Type 1's - who knew the real score back home - they tended not to bring the Type 3's to Redmond. The difference between 2 and 3 is the 2's can be made to appear - for a short time - to be succeeding. The 3's are... well not even their most determined nepotistic countrymen can hide the fail.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 19, 2018 11:40 AM  

@72: 3) they are highly prone to nepotism, meaning they bring in...

You are absolutely correct. I have seen it many times in Silicon Valley and the value of the unicorns does not outweigh the fuck-up they bring in.

To get a real idea of what Indian programmers are capable of, find out how many Indians are contributing to open source software projects compared with White Americans or White Europeans or Whites in a few other places.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) January 19, 2018 12:23 PM  

@76: And, compare the number of open source contributors from India with their population (1.3B?) and contrast that with White contributors.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 19, 2018 12:47 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:Don't they all work for Microsoft on the latest revision to Windows?
given that there are over 100 within 80 feet of me, and none of them work for MS, I'd have to give that a big "no".

Two words, that should strike fear into any tech's heart,
Tech Mahindra.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 19, 2018 11:49 PM  

given that there are over 100 within 80 feet of me, and none of them work for MS, I'd have to give that a big "no".

Yep, MSFT's problems isn't having the Type 3s, who will cause a project to fail within months or even weeks. It's that they have had the Type 2 - who can usually limp along for a while but will cause failure eventually - for a long time.

Not to mention, they made a Type 2 their CEO...

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