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Tuesday, February 06, 2018

Fakes on the Fake Right

Some of you may remember Eli Mosley, Richard Spencer's right-hand guy, who bravely leaped to Spencer's defense over the latter's failure to pay royalties, provide reports, release the rights, or respond to a contractually required demand for arbitration on the part of one of his Radix authors. Now the New York Times has published an expose on him which serves to demonstrate that not all hit pieces are without merit.

As it turns out, Mosley is a military fraud. And I very much doubt his stolen valor is going to enhance the image of the Fake Right among the U.S. military or combat veterans.
After a short time filming behind the scenes with Eli and his associates, a theme emerged. He kept emphasizing a connection between the military and the alt-right. He said many of his compatriots were veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan who had become disillusioned with the American political system after fighting in unwinnable conflicts. In his telling, members of the alt-right were patriotic Americans who had come to their extreme worldview through honorable life experience, not hatred.

He mentioned that he too had served in Iraq. But when I asked him to elaborate, he waved off the question. “It was boring.”

Boring? I had heard soldiers say they experienced periods of boredom on deployment, but I had never heard anyone sum up time in a war zone that way. I emailed the Army to verify details of his service. While I waited to hear back from them, my colleagues and I combed through alt-right podcasts in which he talked about his life.

The podcasts were laced with the most abhorrent racist vulgarities I had ever heard. Not only did they reveal more about Eli’s war story, but they also gave me insight into how he talked before he became media conscious and sanitized his message. With me, he insisted that the media unfairly applies labels like white supremacist and neo-Nazi to members of the alt-right “to browbeat white people out of identity politics.” But in the podcasts, recorded less than a year ago, he and his friends were unabashedly racist and anti-Semitic. He also spun tales of being embedded with the Iraqi Army, of being on the lookout for Chechen snipers, and of killing “muds,” a racial slur for Arabs.

When I got paperwork back from the Army and the National Guard confirming that he had never deployed, I was not surprised. At the same time, I couldn’t believe he would lie so boldly, first to his fellow members of the alt-right and then to a Times reporter, on camera.

His parents declined to speak with me, but I called some of his former friends and fellow soldiers, who told me Eli had wanted to deploy but his timing was off: He graduated from high school in 2010 and went straight on to a couple of semesters of college; by the end of 2011, the last troops had left Iraq. They also confirmed that Eli’s unit in the Pennsylvania National Guard did not deploy anywhere else during the roughly six years he served, and neither did he.
At this point, it is becoming increasingly apparent that Mike Cernovich was correct all along and Richard Spencer really is controlled opposition. That, or Spencer's natural ability to surround himself with leftists and frauds while staggering from one obvious and easily avoidable PR disaster to the next without ever losing the media spotlight is the most highly developed since Hillary Clinton's.

There is nothing - nothing - even remotely genuine about the Fake Right, and at this point, you would almost have to be retarded in order to take them seriously. They are strawmen set up in order to be taken down.

These people are stupid.

Labels: ,

249 Comments:

1 – 200 of 249 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous johnc February 06, 2018 10:08 AM  

The way things are going there's not going to be any Alt-Right left before long.

Anonymous Faceless February 06, 2018 10:14 AM  

I know a lot of hicks (I use the term out of love; it's our term, like nerfherder) who served in Iraq, especially at the start of things. They all have some form of PTSD or anger issue, but they never talk like this clown about their time there. What a fraud.

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 10:16 AM  

The way things are going there's not going to be any Alt-Right left before long.

That's absurd. Do you really think labels are reality? The Alt-Right is considerably more influential than it has ever been, and its influence is rapidly growing.

What part of "it doesn't matter what it's called" do you find hard to understand?

And why do you think the media, from the New York Times to Buzzfeed and Bleeding Cool, is so desperate to destroy the credibility of every single figure on whom they can convincingly pin the label? Because the ideas are disappearing?

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 10:16 AM  

Here's another supposed movement heavy that I've never heard of before, despite placing myself outside mainstream conservatism for more than a decad, as well as being a conscious Race Realist since 2012. (Thanks, George Zimmerman.)

Just as I had never heard of Richard Spencer before "Hail Trump." Though I think I had actually read Radix before. My encounter with one of their books left me with an impression of leftism, on account of a quibble over referring to illegals riding the mass migration wave as "invaders" and an apology for abortion.

Blogger bw February 06, 2018 10:19 AM  

If they didn't exist, they'd HAVE to create them.
And they do.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) February 06, 2018 10:21 AM  

Who is Eli Mosley?

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 10:25 AM  

Busted

The funny thing is they guy would get a fair measure of respect for having served in the National Guard without deploying. PA is a military friendly state.

Folks who fake military honors/service records are not quite right in the head. It is as if they have failed to get the "Army Values" and see the external validation of honor as the real thing.

Also maybe an old guy thing, but why would one expect a 27 year old fellow to be a leader in such a movement. A bit too young to have developed the character or wisdom needed to actually lead. There is a reason we have old guys (over 40) run things.

Blogger Koanic February 06, 2018 10:36 AM  

You take that back about Nazi Mr. Rogers. He's GOT A NICE SWEATER

Anonymous fop February 06, 2018 10:38 AM  

How long before we find out he's also gay, jewish, and worked for the Obama campaign?

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco February 06, 2018 10:38 AM  

"Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward — reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know."

(Michael Crichton, “Why Speculate?,” 2002)

Blogger SmockMan February 06, 2018 10:40 AM  

Never heard of this leader of the alt right...

Anonymous Charlottesvillain February 06, 2018 10:40 AM  

Nothing like Milo, Posobiec, or Loomer.

Anonymous Die Fledermaus February 06, 2018 10:41 AM  

As for controlled opposition, I was fairly sure from the start Cernovich was right about this one - And the reason is I've seen it before. One of the absolutely verified cases of controlled opposition was a dude called Avishai Raviv, who operated in Israel in the 90's as an "extreme right wing leader" but actually he was a Shin Beth agent designed to sniff out right wingers. This of course failed spectacularly, as Raviv failed to prevent the Rabin assassination despite knowing the assassin personally. But the point being - Spencer acts JUST like him. The same air of self importance, the same focus on ridiculous ceremonies with high media profile. If he's not FBI or Secret Service I'd be VERY surprised (Well, unless he's CIA, but the Shin Beth at least had the jurisdiction to run that kinda operation...)

Blogger Robert Browning February 06, 2018 10:42 AM  

The Christian part of the Alt-right are still there and are still sincere and honest in their beliefs and purpose. The Christians will lead.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass February 06, 2018 10:46 AM  

What a loser.

Blogger John M February 06, 2018 10:48 AM  

Alt Right is a stupid label, because the views expressed by the vast majority of the so called Alt Right have always been part of mainstream Conservatism and nothing controversial at all. Cuckservatism have always been the real Alt Right, so too the Alt Retards.

Anonymous Hrw-500 February 06, 2018 10:51 AM  

It wasn't long before some folks come to his rescue and how they nicknamed the New York Time from what I saw on this archived copy on the Wayback Machine.

Blogger The Kurgan February 06, 2018 10:55 AM  

Well I've been saying it for years.
A decade and change in South Africa convinces one that heavily racist whites are basically retarded inbreeds. And it really doesn't matter what country they are from.
Like any monomania, it's an indication of a strangled intelligence.

Anonymous VFM #3606 February 06, 2018 11:01 AM  

These nazi hippies pretend to be Major Dick Winters but they shrivel like major winter dick.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 11:04 AM  

@16-If they used to be mainstream--and some of them were about a half-second ago--they're not right now. Or at least aren't recognized as such. PC moves ridiculously fast. (Too fast for its own good, actually.)

I sincerely believe that if someone was given the chance to present alt-right views to the public so as not to be disqualified for essentially social reasons, and at the same time the madness underneath Conservatism Inc. were laid, the alt-right would immediately supplant mainstream conservatism.

But that's not going to happen, so "alternative" it is.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 11:06 AM  

@19-Dick Winters kilt real Nazis, as I recall.

Maybe je wouldn't have had to had FDR not been a dope, but that's another matter.

Blogger tuberman February 06, 2018 11:10 AM  

fop wrote:How long before we find out he's also gay, jewish, and worked for the Obama campaign?

Spencer's family has long connections to the Bush family, and the Bush family is as evil as the Clinton's, and that's pretty evil.

Anonymous custer is coming back February 06, 2018 11:13 AM  

Controlled opposition, says the red indian who earns money by peddling books by such luminaries as (((Martin van Creveld))) whilst mocking anything resembling white nationalism and sowing hatred and distrust into that same alt-right circle whose though leader he claims to be.

Blogger Dire Badger February 06, 2018 11:16 AM  

Military service IS boring. Interspersed with a lot of suck and the occasional sheer terror.

Anonymous fellow right winger February 06, 2018 11:18 AM  

@12
We mustn't ever trust anything about those guys that comes from MSM, but we MUST trust every single thing that they write about the Fake Right! That is the Tru Right way!

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 11:20 AM  

Spencer has never explained why he invited enemy forces (SJW journos from The Atlantic into the NPI conference held around Trump's inaugural). That turned out se well for everyone..... That said the linked report is from the Carlos Slim blog, hardly a credible source of information and one actively involved in trying to overthrow the Trump administration. They can't even tell the truth about Walter Duranty, 85 years later.

Anonymous Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) February 06, 2018 11:20 AM  

Controlled opposition, says the red indian who earns money by peddling books by such luminaries as (((Martin van Creveld))) whilst mocking anything resembling white nationalism and sowing hatred and distrust into that same alt-right circle whose though leader he claims to be.

Someone appears unable to read and comprehend at the same time.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 06, 2018 11:23 AM  

I figured Spencer was a jackass from the moment I confirmed he supported the EU and pan-Europeanism, but the extent of it is beyond what I had imagined. Spencer is definitely controlled opposition; whether he's aware of that fact or not, I can't say.

Anonymous Rohme February 06, 2018 11:25 AM  

"When I got paperwork back from the Army and the National Guard confirming that he had never deployed"
Because Army would never lie and disown someone like him, because Army is totally not controlled by NeoCon/NeoLib deep state... Because they are not about as trustworthy a source on something like this like NYTard itself.

You are pathetic.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 11:30 AM  

OT: I just noticed someone copied something I posted to this site about the Nunes memo, word-for-word, on what you might call a civic-nationalist blog.* Which I honestly don't resent. Just pointing it out to bolster the repeated warning that people pay attention to what we write here.

Also, I like to highlight Vox's influence in the right-o-sphere.

*They took it in an a direction more critical of Jews with an added comment, I think because I made a joking reference to Talmudic scholars.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 06, 2018 11:30 AM  

@29 If that's an apt description of the Army, what kind of person would volunteer for it?

Blogger elad sputnik February 06, 2018 11:33 AM  

Crew (not the one who makes stupid claims) wrote:Someone appears unable to read and comprehend at the same time.

Pretty sure that's just the troll that's been posting here for a while, you can tell by the name he uses. Amusingly subtle as in Custer was an incompetent General who got scalped.

Blogger c0pperheaded February 06, 2018 11:34 AM  

Another one bites the dust. Look, if you think you are a leader of the Alt-Right, you are not. I'm not following Eli Mosley or Spencer into battle. Doesn't mean I wouldn't fight next to them, but for fuck's sake.

Blogger JohnofAustria February 06, 2018 11:37 AM  

Well, there are quite a few well-known AR vets with proven records. The Vandal brothers are acknowledged veterans, but they don't hang out with Spencer at all. The guy who ran the security detail for Spencer and others at Charlottesville and Auburn is. All part of the TRS network, heck some lefty paper did a profile on the Vandals, but it was pretty small potatoes.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 11:37 AM  

Not sure about how deep the connection between Spencer and Eli Mosley (who I'd never head of before) is. Apparently led something called Indentity Evropa. Mosley claims to have served in PA National Guard (and there were plenty of NG units shipped over to fight the Neo-Kohannim's War in Iraq which accomplished zero apart from trillions of spending to enrich the usual suspects, leaving plenty of actual white Americans without limbs, etc.). The Littlest Chickenhawk, lest we forget, was one of the most ardent cheerleaders for this disaster.

Here's OD's response to the Carlos Slim blog's hit piece. Why would anyone sensible take a statement like "When I got paperwork back from the Army and the National Guard confirming that he had never deployed" from a person employed by (((fake news))). After all there's even a best-selling book whose title notes that they always lie.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora February 06, 2018 11:38 AM  

Spencer is a fraud. Jared Taylor and American Renaissance are banned off Twitter while Spencer isn't? That screams controlled opposition.

Blogger Alexandros February 06, 2018 11:39 AM  

I would love to see a new internet bloodsports on warski live where VD takes Spencer down.

Anonymous MMinLamesa February 06, 2018 11:39 AM  

VD, do you really have such a low opinion of your followers? You are basically trying to deflect their attention from the memo by focusing them on petty internecine squabbling. Only way for it to be more obvious would be if you were openly begging them to talk about Spencer, Superbowl or whatever crap and to ignore the hot issue.

Anonymous The Gods of Copybook Headings February 06, 2018 11:39 AM  

Muchness of trolls today; another sortie over the target.

The fear...it emanates.

Blogger Alexandros February 06, 2018 11:42 AM  

Wow, like clockwork huh? Low energy slurs. Look at all the low effort bantz showing up in the comments; if this a preview of what VD X Spencer internet bloodsports would look like, I'd pay top dollar if warski could set that up.

Anonymous FP February 06, 2018 11:43 AM  

Drama and Dickie Spence go hand in hand. Perhaps this Mosley will learn not to talk to the MSM and keep his ego in check.

Its like the 60s-90s never happened. Spencer is either CoIntelPro or one big useful idiot.

Anonymous MMinLamesa February 06, 2018 11:43 AM  

ALSO, it will be delicious to see people using this against you in the future. Basically you will trust the legacy media frauds as long as it suits you.

Blogger Dirtnapninja February 06, 2018 11:45 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger c0pperheaded February 06, 2018 11:46 AM  

MMinLamesa wrote:VD, do you really have such a low opinion of your followers? You are basically trying to deflect their attention from the memo by focusing them on petty internecine squabbling. Only way for it to be more obvious would be if you were openly begging them to talk about Spencer, Superbowl or whatever crap and to ignore the hot issue.

Yes, I for one am incapable of thinking about more than one thing per day. Thanks a lot Vox.

MMinLamesa wrote:ALSO, it will be delicious to see people using this against you in the future. Basically you will trust the legacy media frauds as long as it suits you.

Delicious? Homo

Blogger tuberman February 06, 2018 11:46 AM  

The Bush family are Nazi, just a fact. They get along will with all the other Deep State people, and are, in fact, high up in the globalist Cabal...lower level puppet masters rather than puppets.The older Bush had strong connections with Europe's Reich during the 1930's.

NAZIS ARE JUST TOOLS LIKE OTHER SOCIALISTS, the biggest leaders are pulling the highest strings. The Bush Family has gotten very high up for an "American" family. You get high up, by going to nasty initiations, and indulging in hideous activities (Demonic). This will take a while to reveal. Just know that the Bush family let the 9-11 families leave right after the Towers Attack, and they did know about the attack and used it (Prince Dopey financed it though).

Nazis have always been a part of the Globalists game plan, and Spencer wants in to the game.

Blogger Dirtnapninja February 06, 2018 11:47 AM  

VD wrote:That's absurd. Do you really think labels are reality? The Alt-Right is considerably more influential than it has ever been, and its influence is rapidly growing.

What part of "it doesn't matter what it's called" do you find hard to understand?

And why do you think the media, from the New York Times to Buzzfeed and Bleeding Cool, is so desperate to destroy the credibility of every single figure on whom they can convincingly pin the label? Because the ideas are disappearing?


The basic maxim of activism is that Ideas are more popular then Movements. What you call yourself isnt as important as what you believe. Someone may not label himself as alt-right. But if he believes the same thing, what he calls himself is irrelevant.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera February 06, 2018 11:48 AM  

I'll repeat my question: What does a militaristic dandy believe?

Blogger August February 06, 2018 11:48 AM  

At some point I started to wonder if someone wasn't funding Spencer in order to screw with the right anti-war movement. Think about it- even the fake right is anti-war. And logically, being anti-war is one of the reasons you'd need an 'alt-right' moniker, to distinguish yourself from the pro-war cucks.
If you are pro-war (right or left), you'd need to derail a rising right wing anti-war movement, and it seems the alt-right=Nazi narrative showed up on time to keep the gears grinding in the Middle East.

Blogger Alexandros February 06, 2018 11:50 AM  

How do you people even find these posts? It's like you co e out of the wood work every time your boss is exposed on this blog. Are you doing it for free? Do something productive at least and convince Spencer to do another internet bloodsports on warskii again, this time with someone actualky able to articulate his thoughts like VD

Blogger Dangeresque February 06, 2018 11:51 AM  

The physiognomy of Spencer always seemed off to me. He's just too soft and acne ridden to be of the right. Can't think of anyone else on the right that I get that same gut feeling from...

Blogger tuberman February 06, 2018 11:51 AM  

38. MMinLamesa

Not to worry, lots of other people working on the Memo. I have read it, and know key points, and have seen over a hundred memes on the memo, and yep, it is important.

But there are other issues, and I do not find this distracting.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 11:51 AM  

Spencer is a fraud. Jared Taylor and American Renaissance are banned off Twitter while Spencer isn't? That screams controlled opposition.

It's only a factor to add to the assessment. After all, VD is not entirely banned from twitter. Neither is Trump, for that matter. Spencer's NPI got into serious trouble with the IRS - due more to his own mismanagement than the general politically motivated "investigations" carried out at behest of Deep State. There are a lot of issues with Spencer, but repeating allegations from a known Deep State organization like the lying Carlos Slim Blog simply undermines your own credibility.

Anonymous Athor Pel February 06, 2018 11:51 AM  

I wondered if Eli's National Guard unit was psyops. Psycological Operations for the non-informed. They do straight news, propaganda, disinfo, everything a media company and advertising agency does plus military grade mind-fuckery.

From what I could find there isn't a psyops unit in the Penn. ANG. Doesn't mean little stolen-valor Eli Mosley isn't a bought agit-prop asset though.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 11:52 AM  

Vox, if Spencer, Anglin, and all those in their orbit, are Fake Right; and if, as you claim, "The Alt-Right is considerably more influential than it has ever been, and its influence is rapidly growing," then who do you consider the most prominent leaders of the *real* Alt Right?

Blogger Eric Steiger February 06, 2018 11:53 AM  

There is no doubt that Spencer is controlled oppostion, the only question is whether he's in on the gag. The more I see from him, the more I think he really is just that blind. Perhaps it's a willful blindness, because he's clearly not a stupid man.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 11:53 AM  

@38-It's been a mere four days since the memo was released, and a cursory glance informs me in that time Vox has posted two threads on the memo and two separate ones on the FBI (one of which was a joint FBI/CIA Deep State thread).

That's some sophisticated attention-deflection.

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 11:53 AM  

Rohme,

The Army for all its faults takes this kind of thing seriously and would not lie about a deployment. They cannot.

Every solider when he gets in is told to keep his own 201 file, as things can and will get lost, unit S1s can and do fail to file stuff and so-on. When you are separated from the service you go over your service record to make sure it is correct in MILPERs and you get a hard copy of your DD214. I assure you, as deployment would have authorized him to get a Iraq campaign medal that he would have gotten a copy of his DD214 and the deployment would have been on it. Also because of service related conditions that arise decades after, the personnel sergeant would be sure to make sure that was on his DD214. if there was a question or error in the records, they would resolve it.

Also your DD214 will determine if you can join the American legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars, so he would have checked prior to separation.

If he got it and there was an error, he could have file a DD215, which would be easy, based on the unit correcting the record electronically or his own orders which he should have kept a copy of.


All this fellow would have to do is send the reporter a copy of his DD214 if he was deployed to Iraq and the controversy would be over.

He is busted.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera February 06, 2018 11:58 AM  

The question of whether controlled opposition is conscious or unconscious is mostly academic. Everyone who is controlled by sin is controlled opposition.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 11:58 AM  

@51-Trump being on Twitter is neither here nor there. First of all, he's not alt-right. More importantly, he's the frickin' president of the United States. They wouldn't dare ban him.

They probably wouldn't ban major candidates for high office, either, but looking backwards they definitely wish they could have strangled him in the crib, so to speak. Which means maybe they'll ban Trump-y candidates in future. But not the Man himself.

Blogger Alexandros February 06, 2018 11:58 AM  

They're grasping at straws in an attempt to do some deflection of their own. Their best bantz are all indian related and no one ts thats an effective attack; VD clearly doesnt care and no reader here is a WN who carss about that racial purity garbage anyway.

Still, I want to see this brought to warskii live. If we can convince spencer to do it, the spectacle would be amazing. Internet bloodsports will teuly be the defining feature of 2018.

Anonymous fellow right winger February 06, 2018 11:59 AM  

Pay no attention at the fact that our fellow white right winger Vox Day's previous brave attack on Spencer and this NYT article poppet out strangely close together. Just a coincidence, there is no organised media attack on Spencer. Keep fighting the controlled opposition, my fellow genuine oppositionaries.

Blogger tuberman February 06, 2018 12:00 PM  

The Globalists make tons of money from orchestrated wars, thus they pay off the Right to create them as well as the Left. Parasite are helped by constant war. Neocons and Nazis are just tails to today's SJWs and Marxists heads. Different sides, but same coin.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 12:02 PM  

@57-I wouldn't call it academic. If they unconsciously controlled, they can "get woke" and stop sabotaging the movement.

If they know they're controlled opposition, they should be forcibly disbanded and either scattered, if they're footsoldiers, or executed*, if they're leaders.

*Metaphorically.

Anonymous Patron February 06, 2018 12:04 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:Vox, if Spencer, Anglin, and all those in their orbit, are Fake Right; and if, as you claim, "The Alt-Right is considerably more influential than it has ever been, and its influence is rapidly growing," then who do you consider the most prominent leaders of the *real* Alt Right?

"I am the leader of GamerGate, and you can too."

Also remember that VD defines the Alt-Right as a philosophy, not a movement. There is no leader of the socialist philosophy, or the libertarian philosophy, etc.

Alexandros wrote:I would love to see a new internet bloodsports on warski live where VD takes Spencer down.

Definitely, although I think it would work better on a JFG stream, with no Andy Warski interrupting all the time. I just wonder if VD has the time to do it, given everything else he's working on. I've messaged JFG & Warski to try and get them to arrange something, but that's about all I can do.

Blogger Koanic February 06, 2018 12:06 PM  

> The question of whether controlled opposition is conscious or unconscious is mostly academic.

It's not academic to Spencer's neck.

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 12:06 PM  

JFG would love Vox, no question.

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 12:09 PM  

VD, do you really have such a low opinion of your followers?

To the contrary. I have an extremely low opinion of you Fake Right Alt-Retards. You morons have been trying to get me to join you since before the election. Mosley himself was the one who invited me to speak in Charlottesville.

Of course, I knew better than to do anything that stupid and declined the opportunity.

You are basically trying to deflect their attention from the memo by focusing them on petty internecine squabbling.

It's not internecine. We are the Right. You are the Left. We have nothing to do with you. We worship God and follow Jesus Christ.

Who do you serve?

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 12:12 PM  

tuberman wrote:
The Bush family are Nazi, just a fact. They get along will with all the other Deep State people, and are, in fact, high up in the globalist Cabal...lower level puppet masters rather than puppets.The older Bush had strong connections with Europe's Reich during the 1930's.

NAZIS ARE JUST TOOLS LIKE OTHER SOCIALISTS, the biggest leaders are pulling the highest strings. The Bush Family has gotten very high up for an "American" family. You get high up, by going to nasty initiations, and indulging in hideous activities (Demonic). This will take a while to reveal. Just know that the Bush family let the 9-11 families leave right after the Towers Attack, and they did know about the attack and used it (Prince Dopey financed it though).

Nazis have always been a part of the Globalists game plan, and Spencer wants in to the game.


Yes, there were some very odd connections with Hitler from a number of influential families in both the Banana Republic situated in Sodom-on-Potomac and the Banana Empire headquartered in London. What's with the attraction to a movement which was a) fundamentally leftist in nature; b) killed more whites (by 2 to 1) than non-whites; c) not only lost badly, but so badly that it effectively emasculated Germany for many decades?? Even now, the Germans weakly submit to their extermination at the hands of the cloud people and their armies of dindu and kebab imported for this purpose. I've had serious misgivings about Spencer ever since he invited The Atlantic into the NPI conference. It's not as if anyone working for The Atlantic, the epitome of (((fake news))) would ever write anything except a hit piece on NPI and what it was supposed to stand for. (Spencer is out of NPI now, as I understand it).

Blogger Koanic February 06, 2018 12:13 PM  

> Mosley himself was the one who invited me to speak in Charlottesville.

Oh man. Point for Vox. They had really slick posters.

I doubt Identity Europa's dead but they'll need a new leader after this headshot.

Just imagine how differently things could've gone if someone took care of Hitler early.

Anonymous johnc February 06, 2018 12:17 PM  

@3 And why do you think the media, from the New York Times to Buzzfeed and Bleeding Cool, is so desperate to destroy the credibility of every single figure on whom they can convincingly pin the label? Because the ideas are disappearing?

I doubt the goal of the media apparatus is to simply destroy the non-existent credibility of various actors. I suspect the goal is to bring greater awareness to the alt-right. They want to build this label up and control it's definition to the wider public. They want to make "alt-right" the new "racist", but scarier.

Anonymous English Tom February 06, 2018 12:26 PM  

I fail to comprehend how anyone can claim to be a nationalist whilst seeking to emulate the structures of the EU. Sheer total lunacy. Regarding controlled opposition (here in the UK) check out the YouTube channel: Joe Owens talking sense. Very informative.

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 12:29 PM  

Folks defending the Eli guy.....

How do explain the lack of a DD214? He has a copy, his comment of how he does not have one in the link # 35 is bunk, they have no idea about what they are talking about. That happens at separation. If he lost it he can get a replacement on-line. File a form 180. Every state DMNA has a link:

https://dmna.ny.gov/forms/sf180/


Are you really willing to hitch your wagon to a guy who is lying about his service record? That really is a sign of something being off in the guy's head. He did not get the "Army Values", you do not want him in a leadership position.

Also if a group of people will not self discipline and eject the loonies from their ranks, you can be sure your enemies will do it for you in the worst possible way. You will suffer for it, even if they do not catch it, as such folks will make poor decisions.

Oh Vey...

For example, choosing the name of British Fascist is not likely to help you will folks in the middle.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 12:29 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:... who do you consider the most prominent leaders of the *real* Alt Right?

I am, and so can you.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 12:32 PM  

""I am the leader of GamerGate, and you can too."

Also remember that VD defines the Alt-Right as a philosophy, not a movement. There is no leader of the socialist philosophy, or the libertarian philosophy, etc."

I know that Vox believes that the Alt Right has no official leadership. Nevertheless, like any movement, it does have an organic leadership. There is a reason why he frequently attacks Spencer and Anglin as "Fake Right": these men have prominent platforms and large followings, as does Vox himself. Anyone with a large following of his political views is a thought leader of some sort. If Spencer and Anglin are indeed Fake Right, then they are incontestably *leaders* of the Fake Right; moreover, if they are Fake Right, then the size and reach of the Fake Right is almost certainly growing just a quickly as that of the real Alt Right.

I'm just asking Vox who he believes are the organic (as opposed to official) thought leaders of the real Alt Right--besides himself?

Vox: "It's not internecine. We are the Right. You are the Left. We have nothing to do with you. We worship God and follow Jesus Christ.

Who do you serve?"

Vox, you seem to imply here that the true Alt Right is necessarily Christian. And in your heuristic the other day for distinguishing Left from Right, you placed "anti-Christian" on the Left, and Christian on the Right.

Is it your view that one must be a Christian in order to belong to the real Alt Right? Or would it be enough for someone to be a culturally pro-Christian pagan or atheist?

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 12:33 PM  

Here is the Indentity Evropa website. Looks more Alt-Lite than anything else.

Anonymous English Tom February 06, 2018 12:34 PM  

... The war in Iraq which accomplished zero.

The invasion of Iraq was stage one of the Kurdistan project. It's achievement was immense. It did nothing good for the USA but for a "shitty little country in the Middle East" the reward was incredible.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 12:35 PM  

OT Again: I see the left has finally discovered the old story about Bolsheviks killing the first person who stops clapping at the end of party speeches because Trump said something about Democrats sitting on their hands during the State of the Union.

Trump: Making Stalin Evil Again.

Anonymous johnc February 06, 2018 12:38 PM  

@70 I fail to comprehend how anyone can claim to be a nationalist whilst seeking to emulate the structures of the EU.

Cognitive dissonance is a real thing. How can it be explained? We're all susceptible to it. Even here, just bring up religion and watch as intelligent people can quite easily pretzel-twist themselves into holding the most absurdly inconsistent positions possible.

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 12:41 PM  

How can one be a culturally pro-Christian pagan?

Pagans reject the Christ, unless they were born pagans and were not exposed. Seems to me the last folks that could claim that were in the far eastern Baltics (Pomerania, Prussia, Lithuanian, Latvia, and Estonia)around 1237 (give or take a few decades).

Modern Pagans are....well fakes, they have simply rejected the G-D of their fathers for something a lot less wholesome.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 12:41 PM  

@77-Could you explain what that has to do eut h cognitive dissonance?

Sounds to me as if the problem is a lack of cognitive dissonance. Just like hearing dissonant tones makes me want to shut music off, feeling dissonant ideas would make me want to reconcile them.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 12:44 PM  

Are you really willing to hitch your wagon to a guy who is lying about his service record? That really is a sign of something being off in the guy's head. He did not get the "Army Values", you do not want him in a leadership position.

Also if a group of people will not self discipline and eject the loonies from their ranks, you can be sure your enemies will do it for you in the worst possible way. You will suffer for it, even if they do not catch it, as such folks will make poor decisions.


That much is true. If he's lying about it, he should absolutely go down for it. He would be completely unsuitable for leadership. It's that simple. Your problem is in taking the word of an organization whose track-record for the last century is nothing but lies at face value. It's an unreliable report from known liars. It's not as if the Carlos Slim Blog hasn't made up stories out of whole cloth in the past. They are completely disreputable. Mosley's inability to quickly refute the claim with the requisite paperwork does not bode well for him.

Anonymous fellow right winger February 06, 2018 12:46 PM  

@73

True Right is made of good JudeoChristians, yes. What kind of question is that in the first place?
Atheists and pagans have nothing to fear as long as they follow the basic tenets of Judeo Christ, ie as long as they are not race realists, nationalists or anything as silly as that. In case that you are some of those sinful things, you are Fake Right and you go to hell. Kisses!

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 12:47 PM  

@81-Hell or Judeo-hell?

Blogger Duck February 06, 2018 12:47 PM  

Eli Mosley might be guilty or not, but that is beside the point. What is apparent at first glance is preparedness to believe the NYT, with no reservations, when what it publishes fits the desired narrative.

This way, even if it turns out that this story is indeed true, this blog has yet again demonstrated that denouncing the "fake right" takes priority before anything else.

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 06, 2018 12:50 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:How can one be a culturally pro-Christian pagan?

I describe Jordan Peterson as a Jungian pagan.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 12:52 PM  

@76:

Here's the quote:

The director of the local paper factory, an independent and strong-minded man, stood with the presidium. Aware of all the falsity and all the impossibility of the situation, he still kept on applauding! Nine minutes! Ten! In anguish he watched the secretary of the District Party Committee, but the latter dared not stop. Insanity! To the last man! With make-believe enthusiasm on their faces, looking at each other with faint hope, the district leaders were just going to go on and on applauding till they fell where they stood, till they were carried out of the hall on stretchers! Then, after eleven minutes, the director of the paper factory assumed a businesslike expression and sat down in his seat. And, oh, a miracle took place! Where had the universal, uninhibited, indescribable enthusiasm gone? To a man, everyone else stopped dead and sat down. They had been saved!
… That same night the factory director was arrested. They easily pasted ten years on him on the pretext of something quite different. But after he had signed Form 206, the final document of the interrogation, his interrogator reminded him: "Don’t ever be the first to stop applauding."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

The hapless factory director was not executed, but shipped off to the gulag where he was probably worked to death.

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 12:54 PM  

If Spencer and Anglin are indeed Fake Right, then they are incontestably *leaders* of the Fake Right; moreover, if they are Fake Right, then the size and reach of the Fake Right is almost certainly growing just a quickly as that of the real Alt Right.

Yes. No. Not even close. Look at the objective measures, not the media coverage or the self-inflating claims.

Vox, you seem to imply here that the true Alt Right is necessarily Christian. And in your heuristic the other day for distinguishing Left from Right, you placed "anti-Christian" on the Left, and Christian on the Right.

In the West, it is. You are not truly part of Christendom if you are not a Christian. You're just visiting.

Is it your view that one must be a Christian in order to belong to the real Alt Right? Or would it be enough for someone to be a culturally pro-Christian pagan or atheist?

Define "belong". Do you consider me to be Italian? I don't. That doesn't mean I don't support the Italians. But I know I am not Italian. I am merely pro-Italian. That being said, I think it is enough to insist that the leaders of the Christendom be Christian.

However well-intentioned, however, genuinely supportive of the West they might be, the non-Christians will go off course sooner rather than later. Which, you will note, almost always happens to nations led by foreign nationals. They might start well. They might mean well. But it won't end well.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera February 06, 2018 12:55 PM  

Duck wrote:Eli Mosley might be guilty or not, but that is beside the point. What is apparent at first glance is preparedness to believe the NYT, with no reservations, when what it publishes fits the desired narrative.

This way, even if it turns out that this story is indeed true, this blog has yet again demonstrated that denouncing the "fake right" takes priority before anything else.


If my opinion means anything to you, I'll ask you not to join in this chorus, and if possible call off anyone you can influence. Vox has a predictable response to this stuff and there's no use for escalating this thing.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 12:55 PM  

@78-By being a Pagan who promotes the culture of Christian civilizations? Maybe not the explicitly Christian parts, but other parts.

Anonymous Patron February 06, 2018 12:55 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:Vox, you seem to imply here that the true Alt Right is necessarily Christian. And in your heuristic the other day for distinguishing Left from Right, you placed "anti-Christian" on the Left, and Christian on the Right.

Is it your view that one must be a Christian in order to belong to the real Alt Right? Or would it be enough for someone to be a culturally pro-Christian pagan or atheist?


Check out the 16 points. VD makes the (IMHO entirely true) argument that Christianity is one of the fundamental pillars of Western / European civilisation (though not necessarily other civilisations). Pretty sure he's also said in the past that you don't have to be a Christian to (a) recognise this fact, and (b) to support this.

Blogger Geoarrge February 06, 2018 12:55 PM  


"Aw, cute, you think you can start a political revolution? Well, guess what? This man is now your Fuhrer. Doesn't matter if you'd never heard of him before 2016. Doesn't matter if you're nuanced and careful about your arguments. You belong to him. If you try to overthrow him, we will protect him. You cannot reject the label. We will keep pinning it to you. You have stepped in the Bog of Eternal Stench. Groveling won't help, but it will amuse us." --Fakenews Media

Anonymous FP February 06, 2018 12:58 PM  

File under: Attention whores fall in love?

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2018/02/blind-items-revealed-2_5.html

"This foreign born still one hit wonder apparently is hooking up with this alt right guy who has been in the news more this past year for who has punched him and arrested him than anything else. This would win the 2018 strangest coupling and it is only three days in.

Iggy Azalea/Richard Spencer"

Blogger OGRE February 06, 2018 1:00 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:I figured Spencer was a jackass from the moment I confirmed he supported the EU and pan-Europeanism, but the extent of it is beyond what I had imagined. Spencer is definitely controlled opposition; whether he's aware of that fact or not, I can't say.

It was clear he was a jackass from the Hail Trump moment.

Who the hell purposefully puts forth that type of optic? And at that particular moment in time. The most likely answer is that he's someone who is actively working to discredit the Alt-Right. A less likely alternative is that he is so deluded that he actually believes Nazi imagery is a strong sell to the American public, a belief that is downright absurd on its face.

You can tell a lot about a book by its cover, because the publisher chooses to present it that way. Just look at the image Spencer cultivates for himself. The way he walks and talks, the way he dresses, his facial expressions. Aside from the sweater vests, nothing about the man suggests conservative or Christian in any way.

Hell he hardly comes off as an adult male--more like a preppy high school kid who has neither athletic, academic or even musical ability, and depends on Daddy's money to maintain a level of social status above AV club nerd.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 1:04 PM  

Sam the Man: "How can one be a culturally pro-Christian pagan?"

Easily. One would be pagan in one's own beliefs and private behavior, while affirming the cultural and political dominance of Christianity for pragmatic and civilizational reasons. There are many such people.

"Pagans reject the Christ, unless they were born pagans and were not exposed. Seems to me the last folks that could claim that were in the far eastern Baltics (Pomerania, Prussia, Lithuanian, Latvia, and Estonia)around 1237 (give or take a few decades)."

In fact, there are many people in Eastern Europe and Russia today who are outwardly Christian, but who practice a kind of instinctive paganism in their daily lives.

I myself know quite a few Russian girls who are entirely untroubled by attending an Eastern Orthodox Eucharistic service, and then practicing witchcraft two hours later. They do it all the time. And you wouldn't believe the sex lives of these girls, though they try to be discreet about it.

But they would be furious at anyone who blasphemed Jesus.


Blogger VD February 06, 2018 1:04 PM  

Your problem is in taking the word of an organization whose track-record for the last century is nothing but lies at face value.

Why do you think I am doing that? Do you really think this is the first I'd heard about it? I was already well aware the guy is a fraud. He lied directly to me about another matter.

What is apparent at first glance is preparedness to believe the NYT, with no reservations, when what it publishes fits the desired narrative.

No, when what it publishes fits what I already know. Mosley is a liar. I knew that for an absolute fact.

This way, even if it turns out that this story is indeed true, this blog has yet again demonstrated that denouncing the "fake right" takes priority before anything else.

First, I note that Spencer has already initiated damage control and is trying to distance himself. Second, denouncing the Fake Right is absolutely a priority, because even the SJWs know better than to show up and try to attack me here. I will continue to attack the Fake Right and expose them for the frauds they are until every last attack on me and my family are removed from Gab and Twitter.

They are the enemy, second only to the pedophiles as far as I am concerned. I despise them even more than I despise the SJWs. Not even the SJWs attacked my wife as grotesquely as they did. I will never, ever, show them any mercy.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 1:05 PM  

The invasion of Iraq was stage one of the Kurdistan project. It's achievement was immense. It did nothing good for the USA but for a "shitty little country in the Middle East" the reward was incredible.

Yes, but there are some folks here who would never be the first to stop applauding Murika's bestest friend in the whole wide world, where the Judeo-Christ wrote the Scofield bible. I expect that Carlos Slim's Blog has precious little to say about the very nationalistic move by that country to expel dindu invaders, because (as noted in the linked article), the very same folks who advocated for Mesopotamian misadventures the loudest also are the loudest and well-financed supporters of facilitating the invasion of the the place once known as the USA, and various nations now part of the EUSSR's open-air gulag for the native populace.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 06, 2018 1:10 PM  

@83 That's entirely fitting. The enemy within your ranks is the most dangerous.

@91 Completely agreed OGRE. Also I get the vibe of wrongness from Spencer that I would describe as "crisis actor at a Star Trek convention."

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 1:11 PM  

Duck,

No. It is very easy to refute such a false charge. You show a copy of your DD214. If you do not have it you get a copy by filing a form 180 (which can be done electronically. If in error you correct it by filing a DD215 with the supporting information from you 201 file or if you just left, your old unit S1. Actually they could correct the record on MILPERs electronically. Actually not sure about the latter, once the person is separated from service.


His equivocation is a sign he is a lying liar who lies. This is not rocket science, there is not a vast machinery to defraud E3 guardsmans from their awards. It just does not happen, the folks in the system care about such things.


For example: Deploying to Kuwait is not the same as Iraq. You are not eligible for the Iraq Campaign medal unless you spent 30 days in Iraq or were shot at one day in Iraq. He knows that. Now it he qualified under the latter (i.e. drove into Iraq and was mortared), he would also be eligible for the CAB, which he would have. Now there are a few of the hard core special forces types who have distain for awards, but the average Guardsman is very concerned about getting every single award he is entailed to. That is not an insult, it is just true. Men serve for both honor and recognition of it, this fellow has none. Faking records in the military is not acceptable.

Everything from his mouth as to explanation shows he is lying. Something is off in his brain.

Anonymous Tsalal February 06, 2018 1:19 PM  

On Richard Spencer. The man is Jewish peerage, a spook and most likely related to the Bushes.

http://mileswmathis.com/spence.pdf

As for Anglin, if he is a psyops, he's the best damn one I've seen.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 1:19 PM  

"Check out the 16 points. VD makes the (IMHO entirely true) argument that Christianity is one of the fundamental pillars of Western / European civilisation (though not necessarily other civilizations). Pretty sure he's also said in the past that you don't have to be a Christian to (a) recognise this fact, and (b) to support this."

From the 16 points: "The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy."

You're right that he affirms Christianity as a civilizational pillar, but he also includes the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy. And you're right that the 16 points do not specifically say that one has to be a Christian in order to be Alt Right.

But a number of Vox's more recent comments have seemed quite a bit more strenuously Christian, as well as anti-pagan, so I am seeking clarification.

Anonymous Pol Mordreth February 06, 2018 1:20 PM  

#78: I am Pagan, as I revolted against the churchianity all around me as a young man. Growing up there were no churches in my area, of any denomination, that I could find that followed the bible. As a disillusioned young man I turned to neo-paganism, because at least the practitioners that I knew actually followed their tenets. I am culturally Christian, as I was raised in rural America, and I firmly believe that a muscular Christianity is essential for western civilization. It can tolerate a low percentage of people like me, who keep their heads down and are outwardly culturally Christian, but that is all. In fact, I would prefer to live under an expressly Christian society where I had to cover my beliefs than this wild disaster that is neo-paganism running the country.

Regards,
Pol

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 1:20 PM  

tublecane wrote:@81-Hell or Judeo-hell?

Hell. Fake Christians get real Hell.

Real Christ has champagne for his real friends and real pain for his sham friends.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 1:22 PM  

Why do you think I am doing that? Do you really think this is the first I'd heard about it? I was already well aware the guy is a fraud. He lied directly to me about another matter.

I wasn't talking to you, but to Sam. If Mosley is lying about his record he should absolutely go down for it (as noted). If he lied to you directly about something else, that means there could very well be a pattern of mendacity here which only adds to his credibility problem. (Keep in mind I never even head of Eli Mosley before today. I have known of Identity Evropa before but not paid any attention to them.) As for Richard Spencer, he's never given a satisfactory answer for inviting The Atlantic (and possible actors) to the NPI conference. All this did was give the enemy the optics they wanted. Cernovich called that one correctly.

Blogger pyrrhus February 06, 2018 1:24 PM  

@94 It's becoming dramatically obvious that America has only one real enemy in this world, which is a tiny country in the ME that stole its atomic energy program and materials from the US, attacked a US warship and almost sank it, and has a vast number of DC politicians on the payroll....the (((NYT))) is not likely to want to discuss any of this history.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman February 06, 2018 1:35 PM  

The minute I first saw him, I've always hated Spencer. He seemed so smug yet so soft and not that smart. A combination of mid-wit and pussy. Then he was side-slapped by that smelly leftist with a dookie fetish and what does this George Rockwell wannabe do ...but cry. Not get pissed and chase the soyboy down..but cry. On camera no less. In twenty plus years in the timber industry, Ive rubbed shoulders with some truly tough men... and these armchair nazis come across as downright comical. Like theyre still in sixth grade or something.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman February 06, 2018 1:42 PM  

The minute I first saw him, I've always hated Spencer. He seemed so smug yet so soft and not that smart. A combination of mid-wit and pussy. Then he was side-slapped by that smelly leftist with a dookie fetish and what does this George Rockwell wannabe do ...but cry. Not get pissed and chase the soyboy down..but cry. On camera no less. In twenty plus years in the timber industry, Ive rubbed shoulders with some truly tough men... and these armchair nazis come across as downright comical. Like theyre still in sixth grade or something.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 1:43 PM  

Vox: "They are the enemy, second only to the pedophiles as far as I am concerned. I despise them even more than I despise the SJWs. Not even the SJWs attacked my wife as grotesquely as they did. I will never, ever, show them any mercy."

I don't know who said what about Vox's wife, but comments like this make me wonder how much of Vox's war against these guys is personal, rather than philosophical and political.

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 1:43 PM  

@98 But a number of Vox's more recent comments have seemed quite a bit more strenuously Christian, as well as anti-pagan, so I am seeking clarification.

You don’t have to be Christian, but you have to be Christian-friendly, or at least neutral. If you’re anti-Christian, you’re not (Alt) Right. As Vox reminds us, it’s about Truth vs. lies. Paganism is a lie, so naturally the Fake Right is crazy about it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 1:46 PM  

Jack, something may easily be all of the above.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 1:50 PM  

DissidentRight: "You don’t have to be Christian, but you have to be Christian-friendly, or at least neutral. If you’re anti-Christian, you’re not (Alt) Right. As Vox reminds us, it’s about Truth vs. lies. Paganism is a lie, so naturally the Fake Right is crazy about it."

Ok. But if the real Alt Right views paganism as a lie, then how do we reconcile that with the inclusion in the 16 points of the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy as one of the three foundational pillars of the West?

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 1:51 PM  

@104 make me wonder how much of Vox's war against these guys is personal, rather than philosophical and political.

Vox’s philosophical and political enemies attack him all the time. Apparently he often doesn’t even notice. And I doubt he always responds even if he does. But few of these enemies were retarded enough to attack his family. That’s kind of personal, isn’t it?

Blogger Duck February 06, 2018 1:56 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:It is very easy to refute such a false charge.

That's fine, but look at the blog post here. It doesn't go into the ways of refuting the charges - in fact your comments have been much more clarifying in that regard. It merely copies a part of the NYT article - the part that is really just hearsay to be honest - and affirms it as true. Vox then responds in comments that he's after the fake/alt/whichever the name right due to personal reasons.

Imo VD went the wrong way about this. I get he is being attacked on a personal basis, I get attacks on the family must be infuriating, but if appearance is presented that you are motivated personally, you can be easily counter attacked. It doesn't even matter for that purpose if the core of the story is true or not, as I said.

Anyhow waiting for Mosley's announced response and then attacking based on that (or lack of it) would have been better. Maybe I can too easily afford to be dispassionate, being an ocean and a culture removed from America and American issues. But I still think this should have been handled differently.

Blogger Dirtnapninja February 06, 2018 1:57 PM  

Koanic wrote:Oh man. Point for Vox. They had really slick posters.

I doubt Identity Europa's dead but they'll need a new leader after this headshot.


Mosely is not involved with IE anymore.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 1:58 PM  

"if the real Alt Right views paganism as a lie, then how do we reconcile that with the inclusion in the 16 points of the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy"

Binary thinking strikes again. Actions are black and white. Most people (and consequently nations and civilizations) are some shade of grey.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 1:58 PM  

@102. I rather doubt that tiny country is the only enemy, or even a major enemy. The famous Non-Existent Lobby which Must not be Named probably gets more actual votes in terms of the periodic fake-elections held from ardent followers of the Judeo-Christ more than from the resident tribe members, very few of whom bother to go to a country where the tribe are the clear (and growing) majority. The tribe over here nevertheless are very adamant that tax-dollars be sent all the time to prop up said country, and that the Banana Empire's legions be sent to fight its wars.

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 1:59 PM  

@107 with the inclusion in the 16 points of the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy as one of the three foundational pillars of the West?

The word “pagan” does not appear in point 4 of the 16 points. You added it, why? (Paganism is not part of the legacy, look up the definition of legacy. The legacy is Graeco-Roman philosophy and history, which is not a lie.)

But if the real Alt Right views paganism as a lie

Everyone views paganism as a lie, beginning with neo-pagans. There is no one, anywhere, who actually believes Odin is real.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy February 06, 2018 1:59 PM  

fellow right winger wrote:Pay no attention at the fact that our fellow white right winger Vox Day's previous brave attack on Spencer and this NYT article poppet out strangely close together.
Thank you for pointing out that the burst of (((Nazi Clown))) trolling was coordinated with the rest of the Swamp Left. Good to know that you folks really are willing Clown agents.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 2:01 PM  

"I get he is being attacked on a personal basis, I get attacks on the family must be infuriating, but if appearance is presented that you are motivated personally, you can be easily counter attacked."

By concern trolls like you? I'll take complete honesty over (evil)politically motivated omission any day.

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 2:01 PM  

Not an expert on this, but is not paganism synonymous with rejection of the Father-in-Heaven or G-D of the Abrahamic religions?

If so is not Paganism a form of demon worship, at least according to Abrahamic religions? The one post where eastern Girls did witchcraft tends to support that view, such conduct is condemned by Moses, which is observed by Abrahamic creeds.

If the first two are correct, how could pagan support western Christendom? They are at their core against it.

Of course I do not really know that much about it so feel free to correct me where the logic is wrong.

Anonymous Patron February 06, 2018 2:04 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:DissidentRight: "You don’t have to be Christian, but you have to be Christian-friendly, or at least neutral. If you’re anti-Christian, you’re not (Alt) Right. As Vox reminds us, it’s about Truth vs. lies. Paganism is a lie, so naturally the Fake Right is crazy about it."

Ok. But if the real Alt Right views paganism as a lie, then how do we reconcile that with the inclusion in the 16 points of the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy as one of the three foundational pillars of the West?


Isn't it possible that there can be elements of the truth to paganism (or Islam, or Communism, or whatever), even though the whole is false? A good liar will add in enough of the truth to make his lie seem more convincing (see Satan tempting Eve)... similarly, why can't the early pagans have incorporated aspects of the truth into their beliefs, even if they got the rest wrong? Could you even develop a religion that is 100% wrong and have it survive more than a generation? Doesn't seem likely to me...

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 2:06 PM  

DissidentRight: "Vox’s philosophical and political enemies attack him all the time. Apparently he often doesn’t even notice. And I doubt he always responds even if he does. But few of these enemies were retarded enough to attack his family. That’s kind of personal, isn’t it?"

Oh, I'm not arguing that they don't deserve Vox's wrath. I don't know what they said, but it wouldn't surprise me if they do deserve it.

Nevertheless, a personally motivated war, however justified, is different from a philosophically and politically motivated war.

Vox's vendetta against the "Alt Retards" and the "Fake Right" has always felt more personal to me than his fights against his other usual enemies.

This new information (new to me, anyway) explains some things.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 2:08 PM  

"a personally motivated war"

It's funny how a confession that personal attacks have occurred and provided some motivation automatically makes the entire motivation personal in the minds of the dishonest.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 2:09 PM  

That's called projection, by the way.

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 2:17 PM  

I don't know who said what about Vox's wife, but comments like this make me wonder how much of Vox's war against these guys is personal, rather than philosophical and political.

Embrace the healing power of AND. The difference is that my enmity is now implacable. I would cheerfully ally with Scalzi against them; even his behavior was less egregious.

Blogger Duck February 06, 2018 2:19 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:By concern trolls like you? I'll take complete honesty over (evil)politically motivated omission any day.

You know, not every disagreement with the object of your idolatry is due to "concern trolls" and "dishonesty".

It's funny, really. I came to this blog to enjoy the amusement afforded by the personality cult displayed in the comment section. After a while I learned to appreciate many of the actual articles being commented. But this is not one such article. I reserve the right to disagree without being an evil, leftist concern troll.

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 2:20 PM  

Imo VD went the wrong way about this. I get he is being attacked on a personal basis, I get attacks on the family must be infuriating, but if appearance is presented that you are motivated personally, you can be easily counter attacked.

You clearly don't grasp the difference between someone who is triggered and an utterly implacable enemy.

That's why most sensible people never attack families.

Anonymous The Cooler February 06, 2018 2:22 PM  

Jack Burroughs is what happens when a human being is genetically spliced with a red herring.

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 2:22 PM  

Patron,

Modern Paganism is made up stuff. Modern pagans who identify as such have rejected Abrahamic religions as being weak, in particular Christianity as a slave's religion. They seem to worship strength and self will.

How could they be supporters of western Christendom, they fundamentally hold it in contempt? As this society is Christian, they rejected it, they are apostates who have embraced some rather unsavory thingies for temporary advantage. Or so they think.

Islam and Torah Judaism have equal distain for such folks.

Now an agnostic or an atheist are not the same as a pagan, they simply do not really have an opinion as to the spiritual realm or believe only in a material universe. Modern Pagans have embraced a spiritual entity or entities, simply not the G-D of their fathers.

I would note witchcraft, divination and other such stuff is prohibited to the Abrahamic religions. Agnostics and Atheists do not do such things. Pagans do. They are, by the standards of Christendom, Judaism and Islam, evil or at least under the influence of same.

At least that is my understanding.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 2:30 PM  

DissidentRight: "The word “pagan” does not appear in point 4 of the 16 points. You added it, why? (Paganism is not part of the legacy, look up the definition of legacy. The legacy is Graeco-Roman philosophy and history, which is not a lie.)"

I added it because the Graeco-Roman legacy is pagan, and I was talking about paganism. You can limit that legacy to philosophy and history if you want. But you'll need to be explicitly about it, because that limitation is not implied by the word, "legacy." There are many spiritually pagan influences from ancient Greece and Rome on the West, especially during the Renaissance. Hermeticism is certainly of pagan provenance, and nobody can deny its influence on Renaissance-era thinking.

Moreover, Greek philosophy--including Vox's beloved Aristotle--is still very pagan in certain ways. For instance, Plato and Aristotle were both initiates of the Eleusinian mysteries, a life-changing religious rite of the Goddess cult of Demeter and Persephone.

So it isn't going to be easy to separate Greek philosophy from Greek paganism.

"Everyone views paganism as a lie, beginning with neo-pagans. There is no one, anywhere, who actually believes Odin is real."

Many people believe that Odin is literally real. I actually know a girl who thinks she has had sex with Odin on the Astral plane. I know another girl who believes she has sex with Loki.

I know guys who invoke Odin's energy, aid, and protection when they think they are going to get into a fight. This is not merely a symbol to them. They believe that Odin's presence can be literally summoned, and that he can drive them more intensely into the frenzy of battle.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 2:31 PM  

"I reserve the right to disagree without being an evil, leftist concern troll."

One may easily disagree without producing malicious false assumptions. ("Vox then responds in comments that he's after the fake/alt/whichever the name right due to personal reasons." < This is a lie by omission.) One may also study history to avoid those same false assumptions.

You did neither.

Blogger Duck February 06, 2018 2:33 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:Now an agnostic or an atheist are not the same as a pagan, they simply do not really have an opinion as to the spiritual realm or believe only in a material universe. Modern Pagans have embraced a spiritual entity or entities, simply not the G-D of their fathers.

It's not my impression honestly. It looks to me as if the "pagans" really just try to make their materialist worldview more exotic and cool, and most of the spiritual stuff is there for appearances and as an attempt to present a false continuity with a real, past tradition.

On the other hand it's hard to pinpoint what paganism in the modern sense even is. Every adherent seems to have their own interpretation. Worship of strength and will as universal among them is something that I'd agree with, but that can work even for materialistic people and doesn't require proper spiritual element. But who knows.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 2:35 PM  

"I added it because the Graeco-Roman legacy is pagan"

"Because a people were pagan absolutely everything they produced was too. They didn't produce anything else whatsoever."

You need to learn to draw Venn diagrams. You need to learn badly.

Blogger Duck February 06, 2018 2:35 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:You did neither.

You're so cute in your attempt to get that 5% fire resist bonus from Vox Day noticing you.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 2:38 PM  

Vox: "Embrace the healing power of AND. The difference is that my enmity is now implacable. I would cheerfully ally with Scalzi against them; even his behavior was less egregious."

Fair enough. Both can be true.

But for a long time you said nothing against these guys. Or if you did, you were pretty measured about it. Then, sometime late last year--after Charlottesville, I guess?--your enmity against them exploded.

So you suddenly went from being a relatively quiet, principled critic (to take you at your word), to a ruthlessly outspoken, implacable enemy.

I have been wondering what the cause was of this sudden, open hostility.

I guess now I know.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 06, 2018 2:44 PM  

"Look, if you think you are a leader of the Alt-Right, you are not."

LMAO

"VD, do you really have such a low opinion of your followers? You are basically trying to deflect their attention from the memo by focusing them on petty internecine squabbling. Only way for it to be more obvious would be if you were openly begging them to talk about Spencer, Superbowl or whatever crap and to ignore the hot issue."

ROFLMAO

Stop, you guys are killing me, can't catch my breath from so much LOL.

Yeah Vox, please stop claiming to lead the Alt-Right and pay some attention to the memo.

BWAHAHAHAHAH...hah....ha...

Reading comprehension optional I guess.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 2:46 PM  

Azure: "It's funny how a confession that personal attacks have occurred and provided some motivation automatically makes the entire motivation personal in the minds of the dishonest."

I never said, or implied, that the personal dimension of Vox's war against the "Fake Right" somehow invalidates his entire motivation.

I was just noting--as I have on this blog before--that this war has a different tone from his other wars. The personal dimension explains that difference.

In Vox's own words, it's why he is more than merely their principled enemy; he is their "implacable enemy."

Blogger S1AL February 06, 2018 2:47 PM  

It's funny to hear the Johnny-come-lately trolls complain about the "sudden shift".

Vox tolerated the idiots for far longer than most of the commenters. FAR longer.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 2:53 PM  

"Vox tolerated the idiots for far longer than most of the commenters. FAR longer."

But that's my point: for a long time, Vox tolerated them, and then suddenly he didn't. Why did he stop tolerating them?

Now I know the answer to that question.

Blogger S1AL February 06, 2018 2:58 PM  

It wasn't sudden. You weren't around for the lengthy transition.

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 3:00 PM  

@131 because that limitation is not implied by the word, "legacy.”

Yes it is. The legacy is what was handed down. The philosophy and legal systems were handed down. Paganism was not, it was overwritten and replaced by Christianity. The fact that that various stylistic elements of pagan religions were handed down and mixed with Christianity is of no more consequence than the fact that various stylistic elements of Christianity have been handed down to moderns, post-moderns, and post-post moderns. In both cases the style is empty of substance.


Many people believe that Odin is literally real. I actually know a girl who thinks she has had sex with Odin on the Astral plane. I know another girl who believes she has sex with Loki.

I know guys who invoke Odin's energy, aid, and protection when they think they are going to get into a fight. This is not merely a symbol to them.


I stand corrected. None of Fake Right leaders and 'philosophers' running around promoting paganism as a replacement to Christianity believe Odin is real.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil February 06, 2018 3:03 PM  

"moreover, if they are Fake Right, then the size and reach of the Fake Right is almost certainly growing just a quickly as that of the real Alt Right."

I'm guessing they inflate their website traffic with Chinese bots, the same as they accused major news sites of doing.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:03 PM  

Sam the Man: "I would note witchcraft, divination and other such stuff is prohibited to the Abrahamic religions. Agnostics and Atheists do not do such things. Pagans do. They are, by the standards of Christendom, Judaism and Islam, evil or at least under the influence of same."

I think you're closing in on the real conflict here. The issue is not that Pagans are necessarily anti-Christian, it's rather that doctrinal Christians are going to be anti-pagan.


Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil February 06, 2018 3:07 PM  

"I stand corrected. None of Fake Right leaders and 'philosophers' running around promoting paganism as a replacement to Christianity believe Odin is real."

weev might...... weev might believe ANYTHING.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 3:09 PM  

"You're so cute"

So you have no refutation to the charge of you being a concern troll. Check. Double down on more lies please.

"I never said, or implied, that the personal dimension of Vox's war against the "Fake Right" somehow invalidates his entire motivation."

"vendetta". Stop digging. By definition the word implies that there is no other motivation.

"this war has a different tone"

So we've skipped straight over "penumbra" and "emanation" to "tone" now, have we? You're still trying oh so hard to say that the point is invalid or biased because of your feelings. Check and check.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:10 PM  

S1AL: "It wasn't sudden. You weren't around for the lengthy transition."

You don't know how long I was reading this blog before I started commenting on it.

Blogger S1AL February 06, 2018 3:10 PM  

I'm a Christian, and I believe that Odin is, to some extent, real. Spirit being, ancient ancestor, whatever. That doesn't make paganism any less ridiculous.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 06, 2018 3:12 PM  

So it isn't going to be easy to separate Greek philosophy from Greek paganism.

Someone who understands this should realize that Christianity and Western Civilization are equally inseparable.

Blogger S1AL February 06, 2018 3:13 PM  

"You don't know how long I was reading this blog before I started commenting on it."

It doesn't matter. The shift wasn't sudden. So you either weren't around for it or you're lying. Or just really stupid. So take your pick.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:18 PM  

Azure: "vendetta". Stop digging. By definition the word implies that there is no other motivation."

To quote Vox's own reply to me: "Embrace the healing power of AND."

One can have a personal vendetta against someone AND a principled philosophical and political hostility, too. At the same time.

"So we've skipped straight over "penumbra" and "emanation" to "tone" now, have we? You're still trying oh so hard to say that the point is invalid or biased because of your feelings. Check and check.'

I never once spoke the words, "penumbra" or "emanation" in that thread. You are quoting your own attempt to satirize my views as my actual views.

And you're right. There is no such thing as the tone of an argument. No one is ever observably more hostile in one context than in another.

Only someone who is addicted to his own subjective feelz could ever make such an pseudo-observation.

Never mind that Vox himself concedes that he is indeed more hostile toward these guys--an "implacable enemy"--because of their personal attacks on his wife.

That's just a coincidence, though. It's impossible that I could have noticed any actual difference in the tone of his behavior toward them, because obviously tone does not exist.

Anonymous TheTruthIsAlwaysUnacceptable February 06, 2018 3:22 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:DissidentRight: "You don’t have to be Christian, but you have to be Christian-friendly, or at least neutral. If you’re anti-Christian, you’re not (Alt) Right. As Vox reminds us, it’s about Truth vs. lies. Paganism is a lie, so naturally the Fake Right is crazy about it."

Ok. But if the real Alt Right views paganism as a lie, then how do we reconcile that with the inclusion in the 16 points of the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy as one of the three foundational pillars of the West?


One of the important things I learned along the way was that at a very fundamental level "All Truth is God's Truth" and if anything is truth, it reflects the reality of what God has declared. That is why Paul can argue against pagans rejecting God in Romans 1:19-21 "19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

Every culture has had people who have glimpsed aspects of the truth of God manifest in his creation and incorporated that truth into their understanding.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 3:26 PM  

@98-"but he also includes the pagan Graeco-Roman legacy"

That is just a legacy, because the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations are dead. Christianity lives.

It's possible that an underground tradition of paganism has survived from the age of barbarism in Europe, but I severely doubt it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 3:29 PM  

"One can have a personal vendetta against someone"

You using solely the term vendetta means you lied. You did in fact imply.

"I never once spoke the words, "penumbra" or "emanation" in that thread."

I never said you did. Stop assuming, it makes you an ass-ume.

"No one is ever observably more hostile in one context than in another."

A spoonful of sarcasm helps the disingenuity go down huh?

"Only someone who is addicted to his own subjective feelz could ever make such an pseudo-observation."

Do you not read what you type, or are you going for a record?

I stand corrected, a barrelfull of sarcasm helps the disingenuity go down.

"That's just a coincidence, though."

So, this entire kerfuffle is due to you making a blithe and inane observation about intensity rather than you making a jab from another thread you got dogpiled in. I believe that too /sarc.

You're still trying to imply that his shift was "sudden" on the subject. It wasn't. You're still trying because you're still trying to imply that your feelings about the Nazis being right-wing are legitimate -- or at least that the opposing points are just based on feelz too.

Stop projecting. Stop digging.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:30 PM  

S1AL: "It doesn't matter. The shift wasn't sudden. So you either weren't around for it or you're lying. Or just really stupid. So take your pick."

I've been reading this blog since 2015. I certainly can't claim to have read every single post Vox has made, but I read it as regularly then as I do now.

And it is definitely my impression that Vox became suddenly much more aggressive toward Spencer and the boys in the latter part of last year. And I am definitely not alone in this view.

Perhaps he seriously criticized them before last Fall in posts I missed. But Vox himself agrees that he became more hostile toward them after they attacked his wife.

Unless I'm wrong about the timing of when the attacks on Vox's wife happened, then my sense is that I noticed the change in his tone toward them at that time.

We can argue about the meaning of the word, "sudden." Whatever. The point is that Vox became noticeably more aggressive toward those guys sometime soon after Charlottesville.

Anonymous The Cooler February 06, 2018 3:32 PM  

The Graeco-Roman legacy is Graeco-Roman.

It is no more 'Pagan' than it is epicurean, monadic, triangular, Panpsychist or fucking prone to wearing a toga.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 3:33 PM  

@107-There's nothing to reconcile. Ancient Greek and Roman cultures are at the foundation of Western civilization, and nany of their ideas and forms persist to this day. But they do not. Christianity does.

If you fancy yourself to be a part of Roman civilization, you're either deluded or merely play-acting. But you can be a Christian.

Blogger SirHamster February 06, 2018 3:34 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:But for a long time you said nothing against these guys. Or if you did, you were pretty measured about it. Then, sometime late last year--after Charlottesville, I guess?--your enmity against them exploded.

The Alt-Retards broke truce, because Retard and Fake Right.

That is how you know they're on the Left - they don't love Truth, and all of their behavior reflects it.

Not allies, and no thinking Right-winger should leave his back open to them.

Blogger Dire Badger February 06, 2018 3:34 PM  

A Traitor is incomparably more dangerous, and more evil, than an outright enemy.

Enemies get treated as prisoners of war. They get traded, they get ransomed, they get treated with a modicum of respect.

A traitor, however, builds your trust, takes advantage of your good nature, and stabs you in the back. There is no honor in a traitor, and traitors and their companion spies get hanged.

And for the most part, hanging is too good for them.

You must deal with a traitor before you deal with an enemy. They are more important targets. That is why draining the FBI is more important than killing off MS13. That is why exposing fake right frauds is more important than attacking the left.

Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 3:35 PM  

139 Jack B.

You are doing a classic inversion of the source of hostility.
Christians, to my understanding look at Agnostics, Atheists, Jews and Muslims as lost souls who have not yet gotten the memo on "The Way" to the Father in heaven (G-D), which is by a certain JC that they can walk with him.

I understand JC says at one point "those not against us are for us" or something to that effect. In essence until someone has a made a decision against the Father-In-Heaven they still are savable. I think it is a wee bit more complex than that but that will do for a first order answer.

The Modern Pagans have explicitly rejected the Father in Heaven for something else.

Now it is my understanding that Christians are not even really hostile of those folks, if they are willing to repent (have a change of heart) and walk at least away from their former master(s) and put their faces in a direction towards the Father in Heaven. According to the Christian creed, they will not be able to see his face, but with JC they will have "The way" of knowing the father unlike any other method. JC, so to speak, relieves the "sin of the world" and so allows folks to get back to the relationship they should have with G-D.

The modern so-called pagans who are not willing to make that step, they are too much in love with themselves, their will and their temporal strength. It is the Pagans who have contempt for the Christians, whereas the latter feel sorrow for the former benighted souls. Pagans are inherently hostile to the Creator of this world, having in some way allied themselves with a certain prince instead. Such adherents will seek ill of the Christians; it is their nature, which they most certainly will not even realize, so cleaver are their master(s).

Or so say the Christians, at least that is my understanding of it. The hostility is on the Pagans side, not the Christians. Oddly enough it took me some time to see that was true of Judaism as well, most of the hostility is on the Jewish side, the Christians seek to convert (often very ineptly I might add).

Your statement was an inversion of the truth.



Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 3:35 PM  

"I am definitely not alone in this view."

You're definitely appealing to bandwagon fallacy on you-fabricated "other entities" for the umpteenth time.

Just give it up and go make some sock puppets already. At least it'll look to other people like you're not delusional until they check the IP address.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 3:41 PM  

@151-This comment is incomprehensible to me. "Pagan" is a word used by Christians to mean "non-Christian." Of course Graeco-Roman culture is pagan, at least up until Constantine.

It most definitely is pagan more than it is epicurean, monadic, or panpsychist. (I'll grant you toga-proneness, though there were plenty who didn't wear togas. I won't guess as to the precise extent they were triangular, so nevermind that.) Because this or that individual could have been epicurean, etc., but they certainly weren't all epicurean.

On the other hand, they were all pagans prior to Christ. And given that Christians were very much a minority until such time as their religion was recognized by the Roman empire, they were mostly pagan afterwards, too.

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 3:47 PM  

Now I know the answer to that question.

Not exactly. The shift in tone came first. That was when I came across information about Richard Spencer that forced me to conclude he was fundamentally dishonest, totally disorganized, and lacked character.

But it wasn't personal until the Gab attacks.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:47 PM  

Azure: "You using solely the term vendetta means you lied. You did in fact imply."

To be an "implacable enemy" of someone because they insulted your wife is, in fact, to have a kind of vendetta against them. But having a vendetta does not exclude the possibility of having other, more philosophical motives, too. There is no contradiction there. I don't have to list all the other possible motives one might have in order for them to be relevant and real. Where there is no contradiction, there is no implication. I was merely commenting on the personal dimension of his war against them, so I spoke of his vendetta.

"I never said you did. Stop assuming, it makes you an assume."

You put the words, "penumbra," and "emanation" in quotation marks. You were pretending to quote me from the earlier thread.

JB: "No one is ever observably more hostile in one context than in another."

Azure: "A spoonful of sarcasm helps the disingenuity go down huh?"

I was making explicit the subtext of your objection to my use of the word, "tone." If you really think it's objectionable for me to notice a difference in the tone of Vox's aggression toward the "Fake Right," and if you really want to class it together with ethereal abstractions like "penumbra" and "emanation," then what what else could you mean?

How can you both a) have a problem with my use of the word, "tone," while b) objecting to my summary of the meaning of your objection?

What is wrong with that summary? What DO you mean by your objection? Honestly, I will be surprised if your answer makes sense. I don't think you know what you mean.

"So, this entire kerfuffle is due to you making a blithe and inane observation about intensity rather than you making a jab from another thread you got dogpiled in."

You are the one who referred, very disingenuously, to that other thread, Azure. I am only referring to it because you did.

And if there is any "kerfuffle" in this thread, it's only because guys like you have insisted on making frivolous and querulous objections to a very simple and obvious point, the truth of which even Vox himself admits.


Blogger SirHamster February 06, 2018 3:47 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:Your statement was an inversion of the truth.

Revealing the anti-Christian nature of pagans.

Jack Burroughs wrote:I myself know quite a few Russian girls who are entirely untroubled by attending an Eastern Orthodox Eucharistic service, and then practicing witchcraft two hours later. They do it all the time. And you wouldn't believe the sex lives of these girls, though they try to be discreet about it.

But they would be furious at anyone who blasphemed Jesus.


That's a rather blasphemous lifestyle they're practicing. So not all that furious.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:49 PM  

Vox: "
Not exactly. The shift in tone came first. That was when I came across information about Richard Spencer that forced me to conclude he was fundamentally dishonest, totally disorganized, and lacked character.

But it wasn't personal until the Gab attacks."

Ok, thank you for the clarification.

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 3:50 PM  

@143 I'm a Christian, and I believe that Odin is, to some extent, real. Spirit being, ancient ancestor, whatever.

There is kind of a big difference between “real ancient ancestor” and “real spirit being”. There are many created spirits, many of whom are in rebellion against God, and at least a few of whom have deceitfully appeared to men. But that's not the same thing as saying that Odin is a real god, let alone worthy of real worship.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 3:51 PM  

"That's a rather blasphemous lifestyle they're practicing. So not all that furious."

Welcome to the Slavic mind, my friend.

But they WOULD be furious. If you blasphemed Jesus in their presence, they would cast a spell on you to retaliate!

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 3:53 PM  

@113-"Paganism is not part of the legacy, look up the definition of legacy. The legacy is Graeco-Roman culture and history"

Granted, but it may not as easy as you might think to separate history and philosophy from religion, at least farther back than two seconds ago when some of humanity started trying to go without religion en masse.

Which isn't to say the religions of ancient Greece and Rome are part of Western civilization as we know it. But their mythologies are, for one. And enough other things are to the point where I think it's okay to mention paganism.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 3:57 PM  

@117-There is indeed an element of truth in the ancient pagan religions of the civilizations at the fountainhead of Western civilization. Which is why Greek and Roman mythology are taught in Western schools and permeate Western culture.

Well, that and they're just good stories.

Blogger Komuzo February 06, 2018 3:59 PM  

In the second epistle of John, the author talks about people who claim to be brothers in the faith but deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. He says to not have any friendly relations with such people. Don't greet them in public or invite them into your home. And Galatians revolves around the issue of enemies claiming to be allies and yet distorting the message of the apostles. The tone in both cases is severe. Paul even says of the fakers, "I wish they would mutilate themselves."

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 4:00 PM  

@126-Hermeticism is rather out of the mainstream of Western civilization. I don't think anyone needs to specify its exclusion whenever they invoke the name of Western civilization, anymore than they'd need to addend "except communism."

Blogger JACIII February 06, 2018 4:03 PM  

Vox tolerated alt-retard cause he's a pollyanna and sees good, or at least potential in people. He thought they could learn. They can't; thus, alt-retard.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 4:05 PM  

@125-"Now an agnostic or an atheist are not the same as a pagan"

True. To Christians the term means those who profess beliefs in religions besides Christianity. But agnostics and atheists didn't much exist before recently. I don't know how, for instance, they would have referred to an atheist in the 400s A.D. If not as "pagan," then perhaps as: "Aaah! Kill it with fire!"

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 4:06 PM  

JB: "I am definitely not alone in this view."

Azure: "You're definitely appealing to bandwagon fallacy on you-fabricated "other entities" for the umpteenth time."

I dunno, Azure. Is it still the bandwagon fallacy when Vox himself agrees that there was a shift in tone?

Vox: "Not exactly. The shift in tone came first. That was when I came across information about Richard Spencer that forced me to conclude he was fundamentally dishonest, totally disorganized, and lacked character.

But it wasn't personal until the Gab attacks."

Now, he says I was wrong about the initial cause of the shift in tone. That's fine. So he learned some bad stuff about Spencer, and that's what caused it. And then it was intensified by the personal attacks.

But Vox agrees that there was an observable shift in tone.






Anonymous Sam the Man February 06, 2018 4:06 PM  

Jack B.

I know more than a few Slavic types, Lithuanians to be exact. They tend to be devote Catholics.

They themselves make a very clear distinction between the Christian Lithuanians and the "dark ones" (their description), who still practice pagan stuff underneath a veneer of Christen covering.

Same is true of the Poles I know, except they assume all pagans have been killed off or are Russians, which they view with deep suspicion.

I do not believe you regarding the duel nature of these chicks. These Pagans may ape civilized behavior, but it is all deception. Every one can have but one true master, be it the G-D in heaven, or something else. You must make a choice and that choice will affect your attitudes, actions and what is important to you.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 4:06 PM  

"You put the words, "penumbra," and "emanation" in quotation marks. You were pretending to quote me from the earlier thread."

Lying again. I was pretending nothing. Are you even familiar with scare quotes?

"If you really think it's objectionable for me to notice a difference in the tone of Vox's aggression toward the "Fake Right,"

I think falsely claiming to notice something is objectionable because I think lying is objectionable.

"How can you both a) have a problem with my use of the word, "tone," while b) objecting to my summary of the meaning of your objection?"

Very easily. You need to stop making assumptions.

"You are the one who referred, very disingenuously, to that other thread, Azure."

Direct question: What was your purpose in "noticing" a difference in tone?

No more moving the goalposts for you with your games of implication and "but I didn't actually say".

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 4:07 PM  

@143 The modern so-called pagans who are not willing to make that step, they are too much in love with themselves, their will and their temporal strength. It is the Pagans who have contempt for the Christians

Exactly. They want to justify human dominance, and revel in it. That is why they reject the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Because His kingdom is not of this world. It’s always been this way: “foolishness to Greeks”. What kind of a God dies, let alone dies for his enemies?

most of the hostility is on the Jewish side

Same thing. Jews couldn’t (can’t) handle the fact that 0% of the Messiah’s mission was to create a political order. If Jesus had risen from the dead and proceeded to overthrow the Romans, you can bet they would have all believed.

@164 Which isn't to say the religions of ancient Greece and Rome are part of Western civilization as we know it. But their mythologies are, for one. And enough other things are to the point where I think it's okay to mention paganism.

Not only the mythologies, but some of the religious/cultural stylistic elements. But I think the term “mythology” illustrates my point. What was once theology is now mythology. The pagan substance is gone. That’s the point.

OpenID markstoval February 06, 2018 4:08 PM  

"... Not even the SJWs attacked my wife as grotesquely as they did. I will never, ever, show them any mercy."

Good on you Vox.

Glad to see that in print --- I feel that way about anyone who would dare mess with my wife.

Anonymous The Cooler February 06, 2018 4:12 PM  

"Pagan" is a word used by Christians to mean "non-Christian." Of course Graeco-Roman culture is pagan, at least up until Constantine.

Jack is sticking a qualifier, i.e. 'Pagan', on to "Graeco-Roman legacy" that does not inhere that which it qualifies, insofar as Pagan-ism not only does not endure in any authentic sense, but died 1,000 years ago. As such, 'Pagan' -- as an -ism -- is inherently non-legacious (if I may be allowed to possibly invent a word), regardless of from whence it comes and regardless of the glancing knowledge we have of it's historicity and authentic practice at the time it lived.

The phrase "Pagan Graeco-Roman" is word salad; like round square. Or, and if you prefer, like "epicurean, monadic, triangular, Panpsychist, fucking-prone-to-wearing-a-toga, Pagan, Graeco-Roman legacy.

Aspects are are only conditionally valid -- i.e. meaningful -- qualifiers.

There is that which endures, but the legacy itself is not only any one of the things that have. As such, the proper qualification of the legacy is as it is supposed to be -- Graeco-Roman.

Further qualification is an exercise in rationalization and manipulation.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 4:13 PM  

@139-"The issue is not that Pagans are necessarily anti-Christian"

If you'll remember, we were talking about Western Civilization, not Christianity. Christianity is actually bigger than the West, and exists outside of it.

The claim was that those who aren't Christian are enemies of the West, or at least shall be the first to falter. Not that pagans are anti-Christian.

Actually, I think most people assume there are no actual pagans among Westerners, in the modern sense of religion outside the major world religions. Wiccans, for instance, are just pretending, and people genuinely practicing alternative religion live elsewhere.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 4:16 PM  

@175-I can see that, and I agree that the Graeco-Roman legacy within Western civilization is not pagan.

Whatever residue there is of Greek and Roman religion in the philosophy, history, and mythology we learn, none of us actually believes in it as religion. Which makes Jack's quibbling beside the point.

Blogger Feather Blade February 06, 2018 4:20 PM  

and of killing “muds,” a racial slur for Arabs.

"Muds"? Really?

I wouldn't have thought there was enough rain in the area for that to be a viable insult.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 4:22 PM  

Sam the Man: "I do not believe you regarding the duel nature of these chicks. These Pagans may ape civilized behavior, but it is all deception. Every one can have but one true master, be it the G-D in heaven, or something else. You must make a choice and that choice will affect your attitudes, actions and what is important to you."

Maybe. But I don't think that they are being deceptive. They are more just swampily indifferent to the supposed problems of incoherence and self-contradiction.

These are serenely complex and paradoxical people. I know Russian guys who are the same way.

It's just a different kind of mind. I doubt Rasputin would have had the same degree of sexual success with Catholic girls in Northern Europe.

Blogger tublecane February 06, 2018 4:24 PM  

@173-I see the point. All Westerners learn who Hercules is, but no one believes he was a demigod.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 4:24 PM  

"Jack is sticking a qualifier, i.e. 'Pagan', on to "Graeco-Roman legacy" that does not inhere that which it qualifies, insofar as Pagan-ism not only does not endure in any authentic sense, but died 1,000 years ago."

Paganism is an eternal human possibility. Nothing spiritual ever dies; it merely hibernates.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning February 06, 2018 4:25 PM  

Many controlled-opposition figures (and the subset, entertainers) are from the Peerage and old money. Here is a very long list of them, showing the family interconnections that go back centuries- http://mileswmathis.com/updates.html

Here's the jacket on Richard Bertrand Spencer- http://mileswmathis.com/spence.pdf

Spencer is supposed to be a white supremacist and Trump supporter. However, in
my opinion it is all another act. He is creating one side of a manufactured story, to divert you away from more important things. Also to keep racial tensions high. Why do I say that? Note his last name: SPENCER. He is from the top families. Think Spencer-Churchill, the Dukes of Marlborough. Then think Winston Churchill. Then think Lady Diana Spencer. All the same family...



Blogger August February 06, 2018 4:27 PM  

Bombard's take on Spencer is interesting:

https://youtu.be/f4rVpItCyD0

Anonymous Trump Voter and shitpoaster February 06, 2018 4:27 PM  

Spend any time on Gab, Twitter, MPC (or with Ricky Vaughn, Heartise, etc) and you will discover most on the alt-right consider BOTH Spencer and Vox Day to be frauds.

Spencer and Vox Day are 2-sides of the same coin, the homo coin.

Blogger S1AL February 06, 2018 4:28 PM  

"Actually, I think most people assume there are no actual pagans among Westerners, in the modern sense of religion outside the major world religions."

Not until they start hanging people on trees to invoke Odin. And even the neos are a tiny, tiny fraction.

"All Westerners learn who Hercules is, but no one believes he was a demigod."

Depends on what you mean. I find it striking that the description of the Nephilim is in line with pagan fables.

Anonymous The Cooler February 06, 2018 4:28 PM  

I'm pretty convinced you're actually a chick, Jack.

Blogger LP9 February 06, 2018 4:29 PM  

Ha, its why Sargon and Styx played with RS for fun, they knew who RS was.

A while back I initially thought RS was ok out of a willingness to not insult my own generation or our poor younger people, give them a chance, etc., but after observations I gave until 2019 for RS to be exposed due to this serious point, "Cernovich was correct all along and Richard Spencer really is controlled opposition. That, or Spencer's natural ability to surround himself with leftists and frauds while staggering from one obvious and easily avoidable PR disaster to the next..." The PR messes were cringe level obvious.

(People still don't understand you can't fool Cerno but the NYT can fool people. However it was already floating around online and at social media last year Eli Kline Mosley wasn't 'kosher' but another deception another non entity really, non story but important to document the Fake Right matter. Also important to note that if Eli was 18 in 2010 that places him at the age where the pre frontal cortex isn't there anyhow.)

It is nice to read how the thread reverts back to God, we need the Lord.

OT: Nice to hear Tara is away from Bre, Mark as those two were talking with David Boomer Duke again, Tara was not present and really doesn't belong around that group. Bre announced Tara has gone onto to other projects, good.

You should have heard how Duke was poisoning, manipulating, playing daddy, playing nicey nice and gaming those young people - freedom of association, I dont care, none of my business, just an observation from what I heard. Tara went onto to better things, she is too intelligent for that nonsense.

Anonymous The Cooler February 06, 2018 4:29 PM  

"Jack"

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 06, 2018 4:29 PM  

"Perhaps he seriously criticized them before last Fall in posts I missed."

FYI, Jack:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/09/of-alt-right-and-alt-retard.html
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/09/no-mercy-for-alt-retards.html

These would be the two points of concern.

"You are the one who referred, very disingenuously, to that other thread, Azure."

Only if you're not carrying baggage. Your actions indicate that you're carrying baggage.

Anonymous Eyes Wide Open February 06, 2018 4:33 PM  

Rumor has it that Koanic was trolling VD on Twitter as “Vox Day’s Son” so it’s pretty hilarious to see Koanic here playing both sides.

Blogger Alexandros February 06, 2018 4:39 PM  

Patron wrote:Definitely, although I think it would work better on a JFG stream, with no Andy Warski interrupting all the time. I just wonder if VD has the time to do it, given everything else he's working on. I've messaged JFG & Warski to try and get them to arrange something, but that's about all I can do.

Yeah, I'd also prefer it if they just let the two go at eachother. That being said, did you see the Sargon/Spencer debate? Warski stood off to the side the entire time; it was great and the level of bantz was truly bloodsport tier. It's a shame Sargon wasn't used to that, which is why I think VD x Spencer or even Enoch would be amazing.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 4:40 PM  

Azure: "I think falsely claiming to notice something is objectionable because I think lying is objectionable."

Even Vox agrees that there was a change in tone. Why do you think I'm lying to have noticed something that Vox himself agrees was so?

JB: "How can you both a) have a problem with my use of the word, "tone," while b) objecting to my summary of the meaning of your objection?"

Azure: "Very easily. You need to stop making assumptions."

I predicted that your answer would not make sense, and I was right. It doesn't.

You haven't even tried to explain what is wrong with noticing a change in the tone of Vox's hostility toward the "Fake Right." You have merely objected to this observation by mocking it.

Azure: "Direct question: What was your purpose in "noticing" a difference in tone?"

I didn't have purpose in noticing it;I just noticed it. I DID have a purpose in wanting to explain the tonal shift that I had noticed, though. That was why I mentioned it in this thread. Because Vox had said something that was a possible explanation.

Since then, he has further clarified the explanation.

That was why I bought it up: I wanted to explain the shift in tone that I had observed awhile back. It's a perfectly straightforward reason.

What exactly is your problem with it?

Anonymous DissidentRight February 06, 2018 4:48 PM  

@180 It’s kinda like how post-Christians have relegated our theology to mythology. Everyone knows the story of Jesus rising from the dead (and for that matter of Adam and Eve and Noah), but they don’t believe it’s real.

That’s why I don’t like neo-pagans. It’s just role-play. They still think paganism is just mythology.

Blogger Duck February 06, 2018 4:49 PM  

Jack Burroughs wrote:What exactly is your problem with it?

His problem is that he's a sycophant.

Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 4:50 PM  

JB: ""Perhaps he seriously criticized them before last Fall in posts I missed."

Azure: "FYI, Jack:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/09/of-alt-right-and-alt-retard.html
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/09/no-mercy-for-alt-retards.html

These would be the two points of concern."

What's your point? Both of those links are from last Fall, which is exactly when I detected the shift in tone that you mysteriously object to my having noticed.

JB: "You are the one who referred, very disingenuously, to that other thread, Azure."

Azure: "Only if you're not carrying baggage. Your actions indicate that you're carrying baggage."

My only "baggage" is the observable fact that you were referring to that other thread. Am I supposed to pretend not to notice what you are obviously doing?

What is this problem you have with my noticing things that are blatantly true?






Blogger Jack Burroughs February 06, 2018 4:52 PM  

Duck: "His problem is that he's a sycophant."

I think you're right, Duck. That's why he makes these incredibly frivolous objections: he wants to defend his hero from perceived attacks, even when there is no attack to defend him from.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 06, 2018 4:56 PM  

But for a long time you said nothing against these guys. Or if you did, you were pretty measured about it. Then, sometime late last year--after Charlottesville, I guess?--your enmity against them exploded.

So you suddenly went from being a relatively quiet, principled critic (to take you at your word), to a ruthlessly outspoken, implacable enemy.


I expect there's a reason for this - assuming your timeline is basically correct. Also note that VD has attacked Nazism as being of the left for a very long time. This is not a new position at all.

*Charlottesville was a clearly a trap. There were obviously some folks who were urging lots of people who oppose the globalist-deep state to walk into the trap set for them in Charlottesville. There are numerous serious questions about Spencer, Janson Kessler and (now, it would appear) Eli Mosley. Perhaps some of this could be attributed to stupidity, but not the whole stinking pile. The odd thing is that despite the trap and the opportunity it afforded (((fake news))), nearly all allegations made by (((fake news))) have now be discredited:

Heather Heyer, the SJW would could have been Harvey the Hutt's bastard spawn, died of a heart attack brought on by her own bad lifestyle.

James Fields, the driver of the "car of piece" which never struck Heyer, was being chased by Antifa armed with AR-15. As there are questions about the background of 'Fields' hiself, this would not be inconsistent with a false-flag op.

The only Nazis in the parade were actors, probably paid for by the folks who set the trap to begin with.

The chopper that went down killing a couple of state police, blamed on the "Nazis rioting in Charlottesville" by (((fake news))), went down miles away and had nothing to do with the event.

The result of marching into this trap that was carefully laid was damaging, so it's entirely understandable that folks like VD (and others), who spent much time and effort to fight the SJW enemy only to see much damage done, were quite angry at the leaders and organizers of the event who were either too stupid to see it was a trap and why, or enemy infiltrators. It's also had the unfortunate effect of creating a lot of division in the ranks.

*As noted already, the retarded followers of Anglin, et al resorted to attacking VD's family. This is beyond the pale and the type of thing only an SJW does. You don't do this type of thing to your own side, even if you really disagree them sharply about some issue.

The thing that's sort of amusing is watching all kinds of folks point and shriek at Anglin for being "Nazi". Anglin is a splendid example of the maleducated product of USSA public edumacayshun. The man has no idea what actual Nazism was, or is. 99% percent of the so-called Nazism is moronic larping, which has clearly ourgrown whatever usefulness it might have had by this stage. It is not implausible that the idiocy of Charlottesville was partly responsible for delaying the drainage of the swamp.

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