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Tuesday, February 27, 2018

She had to go back

And she is glad she did. To paraphrase the Israeli who sent me this link, her grandfather should resign from the U.S. Senate and follow suit:
Nesya Lieberman, the granddaughter of former United States Senator Joe Lieberman, made Aliyah today from Atlanta, Georgia through Nefesh B’Nefesh, in cooperation with the Ministry of Aliyah and Integration, the Jewish Agency of Israel, Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael and JNF-USA. The 20-year-old will be attending Ulpan at Kibbutz Sde Eliyahu upon her arrival to improve her Hebrew skills in preparation of beginning a year volunteering for National Service.

She grew up attending Jewish day schools, and has spent a significant amount of time regularly visiting the country with her family as well as participating in various touring and learning programs in Israel.

Nesya has been planning to move to Israel for some time, as she feels a responsibility to live in Israel and strengthen the country through her Aliyah.
In case it still isn't obvious to you that individuals such as Joe Lieberman are not, and never were, Americans, the actions of his granddaughter should suffice to prove the point once and for all. Lieberman and company are just passing through, and regardless of whatever propaganda they have successfully sold to the American people over time, they have known that all along.

“Jews have been praying for a return to Israel for millennia, and I'm fortunate enough to live in a time when such a return is possible. Why would I live anywhere else? Israel is my home....
- Nesya Lieberman

Joe Lieberman's grandparents immigrated to the United States. His grandaughter emigrated. That is only three generations that were even fully resident in the USA! Giving a nomadic people any voice in government isn't merely a potentially fatal mistake, it is objectively and observably insane! Doing so is absolutely guaranteed to lead to conflict and the adoption of policies that are not in the interest of the nation, as we have repeatedly witnessed throughout 19th, 20th, and 21st century American history.

This is why immigrants should not be permitted to vote for the subsequent three generations and should not be permitted to hold government office until the sixth generation that is fully resident there. Immigrants and their descendants don't have "dual loyalties". They don't have any loyalty to the nation through which they are passing at all. They may well have affection for it. They may well have great respect for it. They may well be grateful to it and wish it well.

But whether they do or not, they are not members of it. They don't identify with it. They cannot, by the Aristotelian principle of non-contradiction. If Nesya Lieberman is a member of the Jewish nation, and there is no reason to deny that, then neither she nor any of her forebears were ever members of the American nation.

A man cannot serve two masters.

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51 Comments:

Blogger VD February 27, 2018 8:33 AM  

Don't try to hijack the mic again, Cecil Henry. Trying to change the topic and direct traffic to your blog is not good form.

Blogger Andrew February 27, 2018 8:35 AM  

The Overton Window is certainly shifting. Case in point:

With all this talk of Russian interference, and foreign meddling in US affairs, I have been able to, on two occasions, drop a couple red pills by also pointing out Jewish influence by just commenting on the number of US/Israel dual citizens that serve in the US Congress.

Each time it was meant with, "wow, you're right".

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira February 27, 2018 8:36 AM  

Vox, sometimes the rhetoric in blog titles alone gets me chuckling before I even start reading.

Also had a good laugh seeing how fast the Voxiversity video was locked down. Why didn't I see that coming?

Blogger JACIII February 27, 2018 8:39 AM  

Is there enough land in Israel for all these Jews? Are they gonna start calling for "elbow room"?

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira February 27, 2018 8:40 AM  

@3 That's an interesting thought!

Blogger Looking Glass February 27, 2018 8:41 AM  

Congrats to Nesya! May she flourish in her home land and make it great again.

I've quite liked most of the Israelis I've dealt with. Having to build & defend a homeland has radically changed them. Their diaspora cousins should take up the offer, before the door gets closed on them.

Blogger Looking Glass February 27, 2018 8:44 AM  

@3 JACIII

Given the geography, there's little in the way of areas to really move into that isn't due North in Lebanon. So, not really. And the other locals couldn't win a direct war against Israel, but they know pretty well how to make an occupation completely unacceptable to the Israeli population.

Korean Armistice-like aggression levels is the de facto state of affairs for indefinite future. If they get too chummy with everyone else? Well, there's an R.E.M. song for that occasion.

Blogger hewhofuckscouchs February 27, 2018 8:46 AM  

Sounds like she's already happier for it. We'd be doing the rest of her people and our own progeny a favor.

Blogger Antony February 27, 2018 8:47 AM  

Maybe links to the ministry of Aliyah should be sent to all (((dual nationality))) senators and congressmen ?!

Also, one meme that could gain popular traction is something along the lines of - there should be no dual nationality senators,congressmen or CIA employees ; after all, it is perfectly reasonable and logical not to have people in sensitive posts with divided loyalties.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2018 8:51 AM  

God Bless her. May many others follow her noble example.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 27, 2018 8:55 AM  

My guess is that she went out of her small tiny little progressive bubble to other progressive bubbles and found toxic anti-semitism and saw the writing on the wall.

No one hates another Democratic voter like another Democratic voter, they get lucky as hell that there is always a Republican or conservative willing to play the stooge so the D voters have their "common enemy."

Take that shit school district in Broward all D voters and see how much effort it takes to keep them separate from one another and when they don't they fall upon themselves. (You think those fame whore twinks associate on campus with the Trayvons?)

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 27, 2018 8:58 AM  

Support Israel, support aliyah.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 27, 2018 9:04 AM  

Antony wrote:Also, one meme that could gain popular traction is something along the lines of - there should be no dual nationality senators,congressmen or CIA employees ; after all, it is perfectly reasonable and logical not to have people in sensitive posts with divided loyalties.

Indeed. I'm sure that almost all Americans have no idea how many of their "reps" have dual citizenship. And if they knew, and thought about it for a bit, they'd be outraged.

It really is rather unbelievable when you first hear about it. WTF?!

Blogger Wynn Lloyd February 27, 2018 9:08 AM  

They are an admirable nation in many ways. She sounds like quite the sensible young woman. She is emigrated despite the compulsory year of a service, which indicates that she definitely loves her people. Admirable. Hopefully she will live a blessed life over there.

Blogger Uncle John's Band February 27, 2018 9:09 AM  

The relief at escaping the cognitive dissonance of trying, impossibly, to serve two masters is palpable in her writing.

Blogger MendoScot February 27, 2018 9:13 AM  

Related: I couldn't understand how murderous, transgender rapist Mark Jones could be invited to address the House of Lords until I saw who invited him.

"Lord" Patel.

He must go back.

Blogger YIH February 27, 2018 9:15 AM  

JACIII wrote:Is there enough land in Israel for all these Jews? Are they gonna start calling for "elbow room"?
Though they've ''given back'' territory, who's to say they can't at least attempt to reclaim it? They might have to displace the local population, but that's doable.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 27, 2018 9:17 AM  

The young woman is also going to be taking Senator DiFi on her one way journey, maybe have tea with David Brooks' son as well while over there.

See the people of color don't really want a healing and the goofy whites who bought that nonsense are digging deep into their pockets for those few magic coins they were given and finding nothing but pocket lint and are asking WTF.

Blogger Aeroschmidt February 27, 2018 9:19 AM  

May God bless and keep Jews in Israel.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2018 9:36 AM  

"Is there enough land in Israel for all these Jews? Are they gonna start calling for "elbow room"?"

why do you think they are kicking the darkies out?

Blogger Thucydides February 27, 2018 9:36 AM  

While it is easy to entice people to go back to their homes when they are successful, prosperous and orderly like Israel, it will be orders of magnitude more difficult to return people to nations that have become "shitholes" through war, corruption or endemic mismanagement.

And for the American black population, where is "home", exactly? I doubt any current resident of the United States could successfully determine their point of origin, much less be able to learn the local languages and cultures enough to assimilate in some random African nation (which is essentially what would happen in any sort of repatriation exercise).

Being parasites on the body politic of a wealthy nation like the United States is far more enticing than the alternatives, which makes thinking and planing such exercises extremely difficult.

Blogger Shimshon February 27, 2018 9:41 AM  

Regarding available land, if you've ever driven through Samaria in particular, but also Judea, there are vast tracts of undeveloped and uncultivated state-owned land, much of it in close proximity to major urban development like Tel Aviv (and thus potentially very valuable). For now, it's politics that leaves that land empty.

Beer Sheva is an up and coming Israel-scale metropolis that has lots of available space.

The Bedouin are a constant problem though, squatting everywhere they can.

Less well-publicized is that many thousands of "West Bank" and Gaza Arabs self-expatriate every year, and there are villages suffering from the same depopulation effect Vox probably sees in Italy. As the stigma to sell land to Jews (and the threat of death) wears down, I have no doubt you will see Jews start to move in.

Blogger Lazarus February 27, 2018 9:41 AM  

@8
Maybe links to the ministry of Aliyah should be sent to all (((dual nationality))) senators and congressmen ?!

Have at 'er.


We invite you to explore the possibilities of Aliyah.


Blogger Cecil Henry February 27, 2018 9:41 AM  

@1:

Something's wrong.

They're parallel situations, and exemplify the same thing. Rather well in fact. She's moving one way for exactly the same reason Jews everywhere push the invasion of the West.

There is the one for the same reason there is the other.

OpenID paworldandtimes February 27, 2018 9:45 AM  

And for the American black population, where is "home", exactly?

One proposal: the Yanks who colonize VA, NC et al. have to to back.

And blacks return to the their ancestral plantation lands, to pre-Civil Rights arrangements (or to pre-Civil War arrangements, if that is their real desire) - or to Liberia.

Blogger Ben Kurtz February 27, 2018 9:47 AM  

"This is why immigrants should not be permitted to vote for the subsequent three generations and should not be permitted to hold government office until the sixth generation that is fully resident there."

It's a darn shame that those Founding Fathers, who dispossessed certain of your ancestors, thought differently of the matter: The U.S. Constitution provides for federal control of immigration and naturalization, and the series of federal Naturalization Acts passed between 1790 and 1802 basically settled on a requirement that the prospective immigrant be a free white person of good character who had met a residency requirement that varied between 2 and 14 years, depending on the version of the law in force at the time. The citizenship and residency qualifications for federal elected office are also far looser than the criteria you propose.

So your proposal has the merit of being tremendously more restrictive than any policy every adopted by our Republic. Congratulations.

But I submit that the Americans of the 18th and 19th centuries would not have done such an efficient job dispossessing those ancestors of yours, and beating back the ambitions of various European powers, had they adopted criteria similar to the ones you propose here. And they knew it. So they didn't.

All of which is to say that the balance of immigration and assimilation is something that always has and always will need to yield, to some extent or another, to policy.

I would agree with you that the balance of immigration and assimilation in America struck since the 1965 reforms is manifestly the wrong one and serves no sane policy.

But likewise, a balance that requires one to use a D.A.R. membership card for the purposes of registering to vote also gets it wrong, and does not serve policy.

Maybe you're just staking out the strongest position you can logically justify with any plausible argument, in an attempt to widen the Overton Window. If that is the case, good luck to you then, good sir!

Blogger VD February 27, 2018 9:51 AM  

It's a darn shame that those Founding Fathers, who dispossessed certain of your ancestors, thought differently of the matter.

It is. That's why the nation they established was invaded, settled, and conquered. They were great men. But they were unable to plan properly for the future. We would do well to learn from their failures.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 27, 2018 10:14 AM  

Thucydides wrote:And for the American black population, where is "home", exactly? I doubt any current resident of the United States could successfully determine their point of origin, much less be able to learn the local languages and cultures enough to assimilate in some random African nation (which is essentially what would happen in any sort of repatriation exercise).

That is not the problem of White Americans. If Blacks are wise, they will behave themselves in such a manner it does not become their problem. We have already learned that most Blacks aren't that wise.

OpenID rockcreekmillandheritagefarm February 27, 2018 10:39 AM  

https://govbanknotes.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/us-senators-and-us-representatives-that-are-israel-dual-citizens/

Only one R in the whole list. Not surprised.

Blogger SDaly February 27, 2018 10:45 AM  

Just rename Liberia to Wakanda, millions of blacks would self-deport.

Blogger NeoNietzsche: February 27, 2018 11:58 AM  

@13 "She is emigrated despite the compulsory year of a service, which indicates that she definitely loves her people. Admirable."

EXCEPT she has a built-in escape valve: she gets over there, discovers she's NOT deliriously happy as she thinks she will be -- and BACK SHE WILL COME!

Reminds me of that negress raving about how happy she is in Africa... you DON'T seen hundreds more following her...

Blogger NeoNietzsche: February 27, 2018 12:01 PM  

@20 "any current resident of the United States could successfully determine their point of origin"

That's what Liberia was for. Maybe we need to go clear it out, set it up a second time (or make a new one?), and then pay them, "chip 'em," and ship 'em to get them to leave here!

Blogger Richard Gadsden February 27, 2018 12:26 PM  

Also, one meme that could gain popular traction is something along the lines of - there should be no dual nationality senators, congressmen or CIA employees; after all, it is perfectly reasonable and logical not to have people in sensitive posts with divided loyalties.

Australia is currently demonstrating why that doesn't work as written. It's pretty easy to be technically a citizen of a bunch of countries without knowing, and hostile political opponents can dig it up and get people kicked out. For instance, anyone in the direct line of inheritance from a German is a German citizen without doing anything about it, even if no ancestor of theirs has lived in Germany for centuries. There are probably forty or fifty million German citizens living in the United states without knowing that they are.

Moreover, it would allow any hostile government to nominate anyone as a citizen and thereby end their political career. One new law in North Korea that grants citizenship to anyone elected to the US Senate or Congress and that would bring the US government to a halt.

Finally, I find it interesting that you wouldn't want President Trump to hold elected office, he being second generation himself.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 27, 2018 12:30 PM  

Is she trying to escape assimilation? She must assimilate and if not can she explain why she won't assimilate?

Blogger Lovekraft February 27, 2018 12:52 PM  

How very convenient of them to have an 'exit' strategy. F'in hypocrites.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2018 1:29 PM  

" But they were unable to plan properly for the future. We would do well to learn from their failures."

its silly to cast that aspersion on them. You cannot plan for every possibility... and suicidal globalists and mass easy movement of people is not something someone would predict in 1780.

Blogger Ben Kurtz February 27, 2018 1:55 PM  

@20

VD writes:

"It is. That's why the nation they established was invaded, settled, and conquered. They were great men. But they were unable to plan properly for the future. We would do well to learn from their failures."

I give them far more credit than that. They planned very well and played the hand they were dealt most deftly. Had they not adopted the immigration policies they did in the 1790s and 1800s, the United States would likely have been "invaded, settled, and conquered" far sooner than 1965+, or even 1892+ (the year Ellis Island was opened, to pick a semi-symbolic date), which is a point you have not dealt with.

Take a look at 19th century history of the American continent: The driving motivation behind the French desire to sell Louisiana was that they couldn't hold it; meaning, among other things (yes, Haiti and all that), they didn't have enough loyal colonists to settle the territory densely and keep the Americans and British in Canada at bay. The driving motivation behind Russia's sale of Alaska half a century later was essentially the same story. The driving motivation behind Texas' drive for independence and merger with the U.S. was, again, Mexico's inability to populate the territory faster than the English-speaking Texians (who mostly came from elsewhere) were populating it. Same goes for the Mormon colony in Utah, the U.S. conquest of the entire American Southwest, and the U.S. possession of the Pacific Northwest -- except, in the case of Oregon, substitute British for Mexican, when it comes to who couldn't populate or hold the territory.

Had the Founding Fathers adopted a policy in the early days of the Republic remotely similar to what you are proposing here, it seems certain that the United States would have lacked the manpower necessary to colonize the entire continent in the name of a single political union. Understanding the consequences of such a failure verge deeply into the realm of speculation, but it is not hard to imagine that another colonial or continental power could have conquered or partitioned the U.S., undoing the work of the Founding Fathers and totally re-writing our history: Perhaps the French would have sold Louisiana to the British in Canada; perhaps the British would have prevailed in the War of 1812 and re-established dominion over some or all of the colonies; perhaps the American Southwest would have always remained Mexican; perhaps things would have moved along independently through the first half of the 19th century to an alternative-history version of our Civil War, but this time with enough powerful, interested neighbors around that things turn out much differently -- the South manages to induce Canada to join part-way through and conquer the North, or the North teams-up with an independent German-speaking Texan republic to conquer and partition the South. Or the war stalemates and the South gains independence, meaning North America is left with perhaps half a dozen medium-sized, European-style powers (U.S., C.S., Canada, Texas, Mexico, ??) sitting in uneasy equilibrium at the dawn of the 20th century. Who was saying that the Great War *had* to be fought principally in Europe?

I'm having too much fun here. The point is that there were obvious good policy reasons for the Founding Fathers to have adopted their immigration policies, and I think you have been too quick to overlook them. And that this sort of analysis informs the way we ought to think about 1892+ immigration policy.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 27, 2018 1:58 PM  

Nate wrote:its silly to cast that aspersion on them. You cannot plan for every possibility... and suicidal globalists and mass easy movement of people is not something someone would predict in 1780.

They did their best. We need to learn from their mistakes.

Blogger VD February 27, 2018 2:09 PM  

Had the Founding Fathers adopted a policy in the early days of the Republic remotely similar to what you are proposing here, it seems certain that the United States would have lacked the manpower necessary to colonize the entire continent in the name of a single political union.

So what? That would not have been a bad thing; the Civil War would not have been fought and what will likely be an even nastier series of post-collapse wars would be avoided.

The point is that there were obvious good policy reasons for the Founding Fathers to have adopted their immigration policies, and I think you have been too quick to overlook them.

There were, but they were too short-sighted. You are wrong. I have not overlooked them at all.

Blogger VD February 27, 2018 2:10 PM  

its silly to cast that aspersion on them. You cannot plan for every possibility... and suicidal globalists and mass easy movement of people is not something someone would predict in 1780.

It's not an aspersion. It's a fact. And some of them did foresee the problems, such as Ben Franklin.

Blogger Ben Kurtz February 27, 2018 2:36 PM  

@37

"but they were too short-sighted"

In the long run, we're all dead.

So it's a bit of a slippery thing to argue that their ideal time horizon should have been 50 years versus 100 years versus 242 years and counting; it's an even slipperier thing to argue the point without choosing a position -- you certainly have not given any indication of what you're arguing for when you speak about being wrongly short-sighted versus being correctly far-sighted.

It seems fairly clear to me that the Founding Fathers were operating on perhaps a 100 year horizon at the outside. Which is a lot longer than most, and perhaps the best anyone can possibly do within the limits of human wisdom. I give them a hell of a lot of credit for that, and think the key focus of the discussion now needs to be what to do about the aftermath of the 1965 floodgate-opening.

Fixating on the unspecified super-long-term perspective that historical or contemporaneous figures should have taken doesn't strike me as the greatest idea. Hitler may have dreamed of a Thousand Year Reich, and his architect Albert Speer came up with explicit theories of the long-term "ruin value" of buildings -- designing things so that when they eventually fell into ruins, like the buildings of ancient Rome, they would at least remain aesthetically pleasing even beyond the thousand year mark. Of course, Hitler's regime was gone in 12 years. Which only goes to suggest that, perhaps, being overly fixated on the super-long-term might not do you or your posterity that many favors in the short-, medium- and regular long-terms.

Blogger Brick Hardslab February 27, 2018 2:49 PM  

We would have absolutely been able to colonize the continent. No doubt it would have taken a bit longer but not much. And Benjamin Franklin noted that there was a lot of land here. That made a different sort of arrangement possible. We are of course working hard to destroy that big advantage we had over Europe. There is no reason the third most populated nation in the world needs more people. Not one single more.

Blogger Nakota Publishing February 27, 2018 2:57 PM  

I wonder, how common is US/Israeli dual citizenship? Could we get rid of a lot of disloyal Zionists by forcing them to pick one or the other? After all, the Bible says something about serving two masters.

Blogger Al February 27, 2018 3:35 PM  

“Crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection.”

-Pope Innocent III

“Ungrateful for favours and forgetful of benefits, the Jews return insult for kindness and impious contempt for goodness. They ought to know the yoke of perpetual enslavement because of their guilt. See to it that the perfidious Jews never in the future grow insolent, but that they always suffer publicly the shame of their sin in servile fear.”

-Pope Gregory IX

“It would be licit to hold Jews, because of their crimes, in perpetual servitude, and therefore the princes may regard the possessions of Jews as belonging to the State.”

-St. Thomas Aquinas

“Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads in saying: ‘His blood be on us and our children’; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the end of time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood.”

-St. Alphonsus Liguori

“If someone should kill the beloved son of a man, and then stretch forth their hands still stained with blood to the afflicted father, asking for fellowship, would not the blood of his son, still visible on the hand of his murderer, provoke him to just anger instead? And such are the prayers of the Jews, for when they stretch forth their hands in prayer, they only remind God the Father of their sin against His Son. And at every stretching forth of their hands, they only make it obvious that they are stained with the blood of Christ.”

-St. Basil the Great

“Any inequality today is a horror. For the Catholic Church [the actual Catholic Church, not the post Second Vatican Council abomination represented by the perfidious likes of Pope Francis], it’s not at all a horror. God has designed everything unequal, practically everything: the flowers, the animals, the plants, the mountains, the nations, the peoples, the races, the sexes, the individuals, everything in God’s creation is unequal. What God plans is a great variety, and an order in the variety, with some things higher and some things lower. And St. Paul says in the Epistle to the Romans, ‘Don’t start questioning God on why he put this lower and put that higher.’ It’s like a building, that stone is lower than that stone and that stone is higher…. Compare blacks with whites, broadly speaking, blacks will be superior in some things and whites will be superior in others. But generally speaking, the blacks are lower down on the wall and the whites are meant to be higher up on the wall. That’s just the way it is. That’s the reality. When the whites stopped doing what they should be doing, which is leading the blacks, then….”

-Bp. Richard Williamson (2008 lecture on The Sillon, No. 3 in the Stockholm Conferences 2008 audio series at the St. Marcel Initiative website)

Blogger liberranter February 27, 2018 5:43 PM  

Is there enough land in Israel for all these Jews? Are they gonna start calling for "elbow room"?

The term Lebensraum is Yiddish as well as German.

Blogger Jew613 February 27, 2018 7:02 PM  

Antony, there are lots of Jews in the American government almost no dual Israeli-American citizens hold elected office. So throwing dual citizens out of office wouldn't be nearly enough.

I can tell you I have never felt a moment of greater joy then when I made Aliyah. When we return home we kiss the ground in joy. Every Jew should do it, we and the goyim would be much happier.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 28, 2018 8:59 AM  

Jew613 wrote:Antony, there are lots of Jews in the American government almost no dual Israeli-American citizens hold elected office. So throwing dual citizens out of office wouldn't be nearly enough.


Does that mean those Jews in American government could not make aliyah, or does it mean they just haven't picked up their Israeli passport yet?

Blogger Al February 28, 2018 1:40 PM  

"I can tell you I have never felt a moment of greater joy then when I made Aliyah. When we return home we kiss the ground in joy. Every Jew should do it, we and the goyim would be much happier."

I'm a Zionist precisely so that Jews can experience this joy. The Jews need somewhere to go after we cleanse our lands of their presence. Let Israel be that place.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 28, 2018 3:38 PM  

For once, I agree with Al.

Blogger Jew613 February 28, 2018 5:08 PM  

They are not Israeli citizens. If they were to make Aliyah they could hold office. I will remind you other countries such as Ireland & Hungary have right if return laws for their people as well.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 28, 2018 7:13 PM  

Jew613 wrote:They are not Israeli citizens.

Not citizens, but in the sense of ``They didn't pick up their passports yet,'' not in the sense of ``They can never be citizens,'' correct?

So, most Jewish Congressmen have not availed themselves of their right to get a passport from a place where they would have no power and perks. That doesn't reassure me that their loyalties are not divided.

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