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Thursday, February 01, 2018

The crime of noticing

West Ham United is under fire because the director of transfers is both astute enough to realize that fielding an all-African soccer team is sub-optimal player management and naive enough to have explained his reasoning.
Henry sent an email on January 27 — in response to an inquiry about a footballer of Cameroonian descent — to another senior West Ham official and an agent. In the email, Henry wrote: 'We don't want any more Africans and he's not good enough. I sent Thomas to watch him and the other lad last week and he said no. If Palace take them good luck.' Sportsmail knows the identity of both recipients but a stipulation before being sent the email was that they should remain anonymous.

Henry was asked if there is a club policy regarding African players. Initially he replied 'no', only to be informed that we understand he has told more than one agent in the last month that the club does not want any more African players.

Henry then confirmed it was true and suggested it was a policy supported by club management. 'Yeah,' Henry replied. 'Because we had three and we felt we didn't particularly want any more African players.'

Asked why, Henry replied: 'Erm, no reason. It's nothing racist at all. It's just sometimes they can have a bad attitude.

'We had problems with Sakho, with Diafra Sakho. We find that when they are not in the team they cause mayhem. It's nothing against the African race at all.

'I mean, look, there are top African players. There's not a problem with them. It's just sometimes they cause a lot of problems when they are not playing, as we had with Diafra. He's left, so great. It's nothing personal at all.'

Asked if he thought his view was discriminatory towards African players, Henry asked: 'In what way?'

Asked then if he thought his comments amounted to a slight on African players, he replied: 'No. I don't know what you are trying to get at here. All I said was, look, we have a great lad in Kouyate, he's brilliant, a great player for us, he's a good lad.

'But the likes of Sakho have caused mayhem. When he's not playing … he always wants a new deal. That's all it was. It was nothing discriminatory at all.

'I could say we get offered Russian players. I just find with Russian players that they don't settle in England. It's like Italians. How many Italians come and settle in England? As a club we are not discriminatory at all.

'If you've got too many, they all sit together and it becomes a situation where you can have problems. But then you can have problems with English players. I don't know what you are driving at.'
The ironic thing is that West Ham already has six Africans on the first team that the director brought in. So, the man is clearly not racist or unwilling to employ Africans. What is he supposed to do, bring in more players they think aren't good enough to start and are likely to cause trouble because they have too much time on their hands?

This is one reason I never explain myself or my reasoning to anyone anymore, except when I feel that doing so is going to serve my objectives in some way. I certainly don't explain myself in response to questions, much less demands that I do so. It is almost as important to never explain your reasons for your actions as it is to never apologize. Just as an apology is taken by some as an admission of guilt, an explanation is taken as an invitation to a debate.

Consider the difference when you're asked if you are going to go somewhere you don't want to go.
  1. Are you going to the meeting? No. Why not? I am not going. Um, well, okay....
  2. Are you going to the meeting? No. Why not? Well, I'm busy. Come on, I can see that you're not that busy. Well, also, I don't like so-and-so. I don't think he's going to be there. And even if he is, you can just ignore him. But... but I don't want to go! Well, you have no reason not to go. Disqualified. See you there at three!
No matter what reasoning you provide, someone can always invent an excuse to not accept that reasoning and then insist that you have to do what you don't want to do or that you truly are what you deny being. So don't give them the opening. All Henry should have said was "no, we don't want him." That would have saved him his job and his club a considerable amount of trouble.

And when people ask "why", just tell them "what part of 'no' did you find hard to understand? I am not in the habit of explaining myself." While there are those to whom we owe explanations, the vast majority of people who ask for explanations do not merit them. I get emails every day asking me to explain my position on X, Y, or Z. In most cases, I simply ignore them.

The only correct response to "I don't understand why you believe XYZ" is "I don't care what you understand." The vast majority of people demanding explanations are not seeking to learn, they are seeking to argue.

Labels: ,

86 Comments:

Blogger Ransom Smith February 01, 2018 8:14 AM  

Soccer has its own "immigration act" of sorts.
Post Bosman ruling and the changes to the rules regarding foreign born players.

Blogger Eric Steiger February 01, 2018 8:21 AM  

Explaing oneself is what a subordinate generally must do to their superiors or, at best, what you do with a partner.
You don't explain yourself to an adversary unless you want to send the message that they have power over you.
It also brings to mind the old political adage, "if you're explaining, you're losing."

Anonymous Weak February 01, 2018 8:22 AM  

Also, they play the African Cup of African Nations of Africa around every four months. The players are constantly away on international duty. Why sign a player who is never available?

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. February 01, 2018 8:23 AM  

Asked why, Henry replied [...]

Asked if he thought his view was discriminatory towards African players, Henry asked [...]

Asked then if he thought his comments amounted to a slight on African players, he replied [...]

*Facepalm*

Blogger Robert What? February 01, 2018 8:24 AM  

@Vox, good and useful tips. Thanks.

Blogger James Parliament February 01, 2018 8:26 AM  

Absolutely true. One of many examples Vox has set that readily improved my life.

I tried to share it with a friend of mine. He could not bring himself to adopt it right away, but experience is teaching him to reconsider.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. February 01, 2018 8:27 AM  

One would be hard-pressed to find very many instances in which it's not better to be thought of as a giant dick.

Blogger Desdichado February 01, 2018 8:31 AM  

It's a legacy of our high trust, benefit of the doubt culture. Most people (including myself) have a hard time rejecting what appear to be overtures to merely be reasonable, because it's genetically encoded in us by this point.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. February 01, 2018 8:34 AM  

Being ashamed of one's severity is actually a very new phenomenon, Desdichado. And quite exorcisable.

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 8:38 AM  

Most people (including myself) have a hard time rejecting what appear to be overtures to merely be reasonable, because it's genetically encoded in us by this point.

How many times do you need to learn otherwise before you stop assuming the improbable?

Blogger Desdichado February 01, 2018 8:42 AM  

A lot of times, apparently. Behavior that's both genetically and culturally ingrained is a hard habit to break.

Sometimes it helps to have it pointed out a few times as a reminder, so that's nice.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 01, 2018 8:42 AM  

I explain myself to my employees because I want them to understand my intent, and because they are going to do what I tell them. Generally, I don't bore others with my reasoning.

Anonymous Rigel Kent February 01, 2018 8:46 AM  

This is a tactic you learn in sales. When the prospect explains why they don't want to buy your product you turn that explanation around on them as to why they should buy it. After a while you learn to do that with pretty much any reason they give.

It doesn't work all the time of course, nothing does. But when a prospect starts explaining themselves instead of just giving a flat no, I know my odds of making a sale are much better.

Blogger Johnny February 01, 2018 8:50 AM  

Somehow I am always surprised again when somebody fails to know that the whole area of race is a minefield not to be stepped into except for those who are SJW's spouting doctrine. And of course his opinions are racist, by what we currently call racist in the public square. I believe in some situations explanations are appropriate. It depends on the person, the circumstance, and giving it some thought before the mouth opens.

As for how other people act, most of us pass on explaining to salespeople, and that is common enough that a lot of sales people accept it. The high pressure salesperson is the one who pushes for an explanation, or wants to argue with the reason.

Anonymous Reenay February 01, 2018 8:50 AM  

STEM nerds have it the worst; we explain ourselves more for our own benefit, ala Debugging Rubber Duck. But generally, agreed. It's better to not give reasons to other people.

Anonymous Jordi February 01, 2018 8:53 AM  

Nice piece of advice
Do not explain yourself. I usually do or when I want thé person receiving thé explanation to endorse my viewpoint
Otherwise explaining oneself is just giving room for arguing

Anonymous Rocklea February 01, 2018 8:54 AM  

"I mean, look, there are top African players. There's not a problem with them."

This reminds me of the way my grandfather and his brother used to talk. They'd quite often finish each others sentences, and when talking of Aboriginals they knew, usually through hiring them for shearing or some such, they'd say things like, "He was a darkie, but there was nothin wrong with im." And my grandfather would echo with his stutter, "N-na-nothing wrong with im."

The point being, differences were implicitly understood and obvious to the point of requiring no further explanation. No racism. Just reality. Noticing differences is now a sin. And pretending that there are no differences, while pointing out the sin of those who notice differences, is quite a feat.

As far as the Beautiful Game goes, one of my all time favourite players was Roger Milla, for Cameroon. At 38, he scored 4 goals in the 1990 World Cup. He was a darkie, but there was nothin wrong with im.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. February 01, 2018 8:56 AM  

All one ever really needs to do is be nice. As Dalton, the greatest philosopher of the 20th century, so eloquently provided the proof for:

Dalton: People who want to have a good time won't come to a slaughterhouse, and we've got entirely too many troublemakers here..Too many uhh, 40 year old adolescents, felons, power drinkers, and trustees of modern chemistry...It's going to change.

Hank: Yeah, that sure sounds great...but a lot of the guys who come in here we can't handle one-on-one, even two-on-one.

Dalton: Don't worry about it; all you have to do is follow 3 simple rules: One, never underestimate your opponent..expect the unexpected; Two, take it outside, never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary; and Three...be nice.

Hank: [Incredulously] Come on!!

Dalton: If somebody gets in your face and calls you a cocksucker I want you to be nice.

Hank: [With resignation] Ok

Dalton: Ask him to walk, be nice. If he won't walk, walk him, but be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you and you will both be nice. I want you to remember that it's the job, it's nothing personal.

Steve: Being called a cocksucker isn't personal?

Dalton: No, it's two nouns combined to elicit a prescribed response.

Steve: What if somebody calls my Mama a whore?

Dalton: Is she?

[everybody snickers]

Dalton: I want you to be nice... until it's time to not be nice.

Bouncer: So, uh, how are we supposed to know when that is?

Dalton: You won't. I'll let you know. You are the bouncers, I am the cooler. All you have to do is watch my back and each others... and take out the trash.

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 9:01 AM  

STEM nerds have it the worst; we explain ourselves more for our own benefit

I once listened to an engineer explain to an Italian woman why he didn't believe U.S. income taxes were legitimate and that was why he wasn't paying them.

She was a ticket agent at the Milan airport. All she did was ask to see his passport. For identification.

That was the moment that I decided I would never feel the need to explain anything to anyone. Ever since, I have considered unrequested explanations to be acts of narcissistic self-destruction.

Don't kid yourself. STEM nerds explain themselves for exactly the same reason that some women like to stare at themselves in a mirror for hours.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd February 01, 2018 9:10 AM  

I have explained myself every way possible my entire life, and received horrible results. This advice has really hit home. It is something I would have never discovered on my own. Thank you.
OT-
Do blacks excel at soccer the same way they do in some other sports? I'm totally uninformed but I'm also under the impression that they do not, given the article. Though it was the off the field risks that were at play, here. They can compete just as effectively as other groups at MMA, but they don't dominate MMA like they do basketball, football, etc.

Blogger Zerk J February 01, 2018 9:12 AM  

I want to know which white cuckholds are paying good money to worship and cheer these African players. My God, the white race is pathetic.

Blogger Gordon Scott February 01, 2018 9:21 AM  

Too many more muslim Africans, and they'll be demanding the team drop the word "Ham."

It would do no good to explain that it's a shortened version of "Hammersmith."

Blogger Ben Kurtz February 01, 2018 9:24 AM  

A good lawyer understands this by second nature. I've seen it up close and it is something to behold: When and to whom you explain things. And how much. And just how complete and truthful the explanation needs to be.

To someone on the "other" side, the lawyer's client's own confidential facts and reasons are very carefully measured out and rationed, depending on need and circumstances. Often, a question or remark that would elicit an extended discussion from a normal human will get a one-word answer from a lawyer who is in full-lockdown mode. I now do this from time to time with my wife and it has worked wonders.

On-side, discussion is a lot more free and frank (that's what lawyer-client privilege is meant to promote), but everyone has his own interests to some extent or another --
and there are things you don't bring up even with your lawyer.

Blogger SemiSpook37 February 01, 2018 9:29 AM  

Well, that kind of explains why they've been stuck at the bottom of the PL table for most of this season. Then again, being a ManU supporter, haven't really cared all that much about how WHU's doing, either.

What I run into when I get in a situation where a simple "No" doesn't suffice (most of the time it's with my oldest) is the demand that I provide some explanation as to why it's just "No." This often devolves into an accusation that I'm "lecturing" someone about something because I just HAVE to talk about it.

More often than not, it's more of a punishment from me because, as they say, "You asked for it."

I've discovered (at least from the retail example) that the simple phrase of "just looking" tends to ward off any would-be commission hounds pretty quick. Makes my shopping life an absolute breeze when that happens. The only reason I engage with a retail associate of any stripe is if I'm ready to purchase something or I cannot decipher their archaic setup to find the item(s) I need in a relatively quick fashion.

Of course, in the latter case, once I find whatever it was I was looking for, a similar line to "just looking" gets tossed out, just to let them know they've done what I've needed them to do, nothing more.

Blogger Ceerilan February 01, 2018 9:29 AM  

This reminds me of Charles Dance being asked to explain the difference between "gay" and "homosexual". His response: "no".

How long will it be, though, before people in polite company can state the obvious generalizations, just like liberals feel safe doing about conservatives.

Blogger KingTooter February 01, 2018 9:37 AM  

Brilliant -- I learned this lesson a long time ago, most people just want to argue and love the sound of their own voice (which usually grates one's last nerve.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 01, 2018 9:37 AM  

Because answering a question with a question is seen as a dick move to us righteous true conservatives.

Blogger S1AL February 01, 2018 9:39 AM  

"Don't kid yourself. STEM nerds explain themselves for exactly the same reason that some women like to stare at themselves in a mirror for hours."

And the corollary -

"Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig. After a while, you realize the pig likes it."

Anonymous Looking Glass February 01, 2018 9:48 AM  

All chains of the question "Why?" end, eventually, with "because it is". And only explain your reasoning to the actually interested. Learned that trick a long time ago.

Anonymous Parlous Rodomontade February 01, 2018 10:02 AM  

"Are you coming to the meeting?"
"No, I'm too busy."
"You don't seem busy."
"I will make it a point to be too busy."

Anonymous Ghost Who Walks February 01, 2018 10:03 AM  

"Don't complain, don't explain."
Old and very wise advice.

Blogger Rashadjin February 01, 2018 10:06 AM  

@VD

Don't kid yourself. STEM nerds explain themselves for exactly the same reason that some women like to stare at themselves in a mirror for hours.

*Snrks* You really do have a limited frame when it comes to people, Vox.

Sure, some people talk so they can hear their own voice, but others talk because that's how they think. Speaking a problem helps them process it through the optimal/different set of mental wiring. Partly because speaking a problem helps them organize and clarify a problem. I do this via writing, often.

And sometimes it's both.

Dr. Jordan Peterson is one of those for whom talking out a problem with others helps him think it through, although he's genuinely looking for good feedback to help organize, define and emphasis the pieces too.

Blogger g wood February 01, 2018 10:11 AM  

Or as Don Corleone put it, never let anyone outside the family know what you're thinking.

Blogger Duh-ave February 01, 2018 10:11 AM  

Best response witnessed against "sidewalk superintendents" was "watcha doin?" "Minding my own business". It replaced "why do you ask" and the continual responding to a question with a question that always followed.

Blogger Rashadjin February 01, 2018 10:14 AM  

Oh, and VD's engineer explaining why he doesn't pay income taxes is assuaging guilt. He knows the laws, so is seeking social approval for skirting/breaking them so he doesn't have to feel bad about it anymore.

Repeat as necessary with anyone unlucky enough to be available.

Anonymous fop February 01, 2018 10:22 AM  

"What's your name?"
"Fuck you. That's my name."

Blogger Patrick Pham February 01, 2018 10:28 AM  

Speaking as someone who likes to explain things in conversation, I think that it's cool if someone tells me to shut the fuck up and get to the point. It communicates to me that they already know the subject as well as I do. If they ask for clarification later, tough titties. It's always better to define your terms rather than have your opponent guess (or worse, maliciously ascribe to) your positions.

Blogger owlish February 01, 2018 10:29 AM  

Bull. He's a therapist. Any explanation he gives is designed to influence the person listening.

OpenID widlast February 01, 2018 10:31 AM  

There's an old saying:

"Never explain, your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway."

Blogger Lazarus February 01, 2018 10:32 AM  

English club West Ham don suspend director of player recruitment Tony Henry over claims wey im say di club no go sign any more African players.

UK paper Daily Maildey report say Henry bin report say African players dey "cause palava" when dem no dey inside di team.

Naor statement na im West Ham say dem no go ever tolerate any type of discrimination and because of dis, "we don act quick-quick, because of di way dis claims dey very serious."


As e be so, dem don suspend Henry, while dem dey do "full and thorough investigation."

Di statement continued add say: "Di West Ham United family na one wey be say everybodi, no matter dia gender, age, ability, race, religion or sexual orientation, dey feel welcome."

"Di club no go talk any word again, until investigation don finish."



https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/sport-42902570

Anonymous JAG February 01, 2018 10:40 AM  

That pidgin policy of BBC is why Mike Judge should be considered on the same level as Nostradamus.

Blogger Johnny February 01, 2018 10:41 AM  

Back when I watched the TV news, I noticed how many people feel a need to the pushy press reporter. Generally a bad idea. Even "No comment" is a comment.

I got into a abrasive conversation with a police man once. I guess he didn't like me or something. I solved it by walking away, no comment necessary. Had he detained me I believe I would have 'stonewalled' it.

Anonymous DissidentRight February 01, 2018 10:46 AM  

STEM nerds explain themselves for exactly the same reason that some women like to stare at themselves in a mirror for hours.

Guilty…

"Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig. After a while, you realize the pig likes it.”

LOL.

Blogger Rashadjin February 01, 2018 10:49 AM  

@owlish

That's because you're a jaded cynic who thinks it's all about manipulation for certain people.

And you didn't read the introduction to his new book where you get a witness account of Peterson talking things out in groups.

And you don't believe Peterson's idea where people look to peers and social circles to figure out if they're doing the right thing. (He does.)

Which is another reason people explain themselves. They're implicitly asking "is this correct?" Which is a bit of an extension of a lack of confidence in our society. Also, the people doing this only to argue with you aren't willing to be wrong (probably bacause narcissism and/or avoiding negative feelings associated with making mistakes).

Blogger Stephen Wyndham February 01, 2018 10:57 AM  

When I was attending college, we had soccer team that was mostly foreigners from South America and Africa. There were problems with the most of the Africans on the team and everyone else. It seems that most of our Africans were Nigerians of the Hausa tribe, who were Muslims. The were tall, athletic, and arrogant. They considered their fellow students to be infidel dogs who were beneath them. After a few years the Coach, who was Lebanese-American, stopped recruiting Hausa players. The Nigerians that we’re from the Christian Igbo tribe fit in great.

Blogger Lazarus February 01, 2018 11:09 AM  

Just as an apology is taken by some as an admission of guilt, an explanation is taken as an invitation to a debate.

The Hoodie has this down pat. Henry should have just said, "We are getting ready for Brighton."

Blogger Jack Amok February 01, 2018 11:09 AM  

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/sport-42902570

Wha di be make sexy bin dey goat?

Anonymous c matt February 01, 2018 11:15 AM  

Wynn @19 - do blacks dominate? No. They do have certain genetic advantages as a group (quickness/speed), but the skills involved (trapping, dribbling, passing) can't be acquired simply through force. There is a huge, huge requirement for acquiring "touch", which is why juggling the ball should be taught early and often, even though it is never used per se during the game - it helps you develop a feel for the ball and hence control. There is also "field vision" which, again, is not something that having simple physical prowess guarantees. It has to be developed, and to some extent, just seems innate to certain players. Making the right pass, at the right time, to the right player, with just the right speed on the pass ("weight") is something you see in white players more than you see in blacks. Not that there are no black players who can do such things, but the top ones that come to mind are mostly white players (Messi, Iniesta, Da Silva, Fabregas - Beckham was pretty good at it to, especially from set pieces).

Anonymous OppenheimersBlockchain February 01, 2018 11:19 AM  

I wonder has anyone investigated impact of diversity on core support of a team like West Ham. Obviously in professional sport it’s about being the best irrespective of race so it’s fairly meritorious. Just pondering if the White British support has increased or declined over the years as number of African players has increased. Ie if West Ham was entirely African would this cause consternation in any great way?

Blogger Jack Amok February 01, 2018 11:24 AM  

Instead of having an entire "pidgin" section to their website, wouldn't it be more effective for the beeb to just play videos of the fake sign language guy from the Saint Nelson Mandela funeral?

Blogger pyrrhus February 01, 2018 11:30 AM  

As a great man once said "never explain, never complain."

Blogger Resident Moron™ February 01, 2018 11:36 AM  

One reason is a reason.
More than one reason is an excuse.

That’s my rule of thumb. If I give you my reason I don’t expect to litigate it or anyone to necessarily share it. It’s MY reason.

Anonymous Naga February 01, 2018 11:46 AM  

Thank you. You have the best strats. I had never considered communication in a strategic sense; why people ask for info or talk trash. It's like a great burden is lifted from my mind, finally separating the emotions from the actions.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 01, 2018 11:50 AM  

"The only correct response to "I don't understand why you believe XYZ" is "I don't care what you understand." The vast majority of people demanding explanations are not seeking to learn, they are seeking to argue."

The seeking out argument bothers me, but no so much as those who think their desire and ability to do so makes them smarter.

My less alpha go to answer to "I don't understand why..." is simply "I understand" back at them. I understand they want to argue, debate, and convince me of their opinion, but I don't care to participate any longer in this conversation. If I need to, I just walk away at that point.

Then there is the annoying, "yes, but don't you think...". No, I told you what I thought, you disagree, may not even understand, I might even be wrong, and that's OK with me, but I have little motivation to continue that discussion.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira February 01, 2018 12:01 PM  

This is great advice. It really works.

Blogger Nate February 01, 2018 12:11 PM  

This is why The Hoodie and Saban act the way they do at Press Conferences.

Blogger Nate February 01, 2018 12:11 PM  

"The Hoodie has this down pat. Henry should have just said, "We are getting ready for Brighton."

We're talking about Brighton today. Does anyone have any questions about Brighton?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 01, 2018 12:16 PM  

@34 Oh, and VD's engineer explaining why he doesn't pay income taxes is assuaging guilt. He knows the laws, so is seeking social approval for skirting/breaking them so he doesn't have to feel bad about it anymore.

Spot on. Needlessly detailed explanations are a red flag for guilt, often resulting from ongoing deception on the part of the speaker.

Anonymous CC February 01, 2018 12:30 PM  

OppenheimersBlockchain wrote:I wonder has anyone investigated impact of diversity on core support of a team like West Ham. Obviously in professional sport it’s about being the best irrespective of race so it’s fairly meritorious. Just pondering if the White British support has increased or declined over the years as number of African players has increased. Ie if West Ham was entirely African would this cause consternation in any great way?



No the core support for all the English clubs outside the biggest global brands has pretty much remained native English. When you watch matches on television, you'll see a mass of mostly white faces with ethnics and foreigners interspersed. Racist abuse from the terraces was very common in the 1970s and 80s but that was suppressed just like it was elsewhere in the public square.

Ticket prices have driven away younger and poorer support, but there's no complaints about the makeup of the teams these days. Every top side has a squad that is about half non-white, and most of the players aren't even English anyway. People accept this now I think, because all players have freedom of contract, they used to be beholden to their clubs and as a result weren't paid very well. As someone else noted this was overturned in the European Court with the Bosman ruling in the 90s allowing players to move clubs whenever their contract was up. Now they can go where the money is and richer clubs will always end up with the best players from all over the world. For fans, the club is the most important thing and the players are mostly just passing through just like many pro sports in America.

Besides, if people aren't complaining that their major cities are becoming majority non-White, they're hardly complain about the makeup of the football teams. I think football/sports is still somewhere people can feel safe expressing tribal solidarity, but it has also been invaded by the SJWs and PC culture to an extent. For example, we get "Say no to racism" commercials during every European game and occasionally football people are scapegoated like this transfer director, but as yet there hasn't been any so egregious that would turn people away (unlike the NFL). I wonder if that will happen and what form it might take...

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 12:42 PM  

*Snrks* You really do have a limited frame when it comes to people, Vox.

You're wrong, self-defensive, and not particularly popular. You're also a Gamma, given the way you not only snark, but are attempting to make it about me rather than the point.

Sure, some people talk so they can hear their own voice, but others talk because that's how they think. Speaking a problem helps them process it through the optimal/different set of mental wiring.

Total bullshit. That's just how dorks like you rationalize your narcissism and your desperate need to show off. The reason we all know it is bullshit is because you exhibit exactly the same behavior when you have already processed the matter, are firmly attached to the conclusion, and are merely informing someone of your opinion.

Trying to get a STEM guy to stop talking after you've accepted his point before he has explained it to his satisfaction is like King Canute trying to hold back the water.

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 12:43 PM  

Spot on. Needlessly detailed explanations are a red flag for guilt, often resulting from ongoing deception on the part of the speaker.

If that is true, then what on Earth do all the STEM nerds feel guilty about? Existing?

Blogger Wynn Lloyd February 01, 2018 12:52 PM  

Thank you. That's extremely interesting. "Touch" sounds important for young players. Perfect skill for my eight year old to start developing.

Blogger DonReynolds February 01, 2018 1:05 PM  

The crime is one of going the wrong way on a one-way street. Had he said he already had enough English players and wanted to diversify his team with Eskimos or Swahilis or Ainu, none of the Leftist Liberals would have raised an eyebrow.

But Diversity does not mean Diverse or varied. Diversity means progressively more Negro until the entire organization is Negro.....players, staff, and ownership. There is no possibility of stopping short of the goal of Diversity, which is the complete elimination of all whites...and ultimately everyone else who is not a Negro Afrikan.

Blogger crazyivan498 February 01, 2018 1:25 PM  

Great post. Very practical. Thank you

Blogger Rashadjin February 01, 2018 1:26 PM  

@VD

I'm making it about you, Vox, because you do have a limited frame when it comes to people, and someone should remind you of it here and there. Think back to that thread about stepping up the comments section, where, towards the end, someone pointed out all the sycophants you have around here. He wasn't wrong. And yes, I'm playing both sides of that line as it suits my purposes.

And I write down logic problems to step out the pieces. It's not a rare observation to see people doing the same sort of thing when talking about problems. Is it really so hard for you to grasp the concept that some people use discussion to think? Is it really so hard to imagine humans developing habits that effectively create systems of distributed intelligence?

But no, you're stuck with your cute 'narcissism explains all' theory and are doubling down with lame insults. You do not understand what I am, despite me dropping hints like crazy. As much as you're a genius in the spectrum that makes you incredibly good at history, you really suck at people, Vox.

Blogger HalibetLector February 01, 2018 1:26 PM  

Rashadjin wrote:Sure, some people talk so they can hear their own voice, but others talk because that's how they think. Speaking a problem helps them process it through the optimal/different set of mental wiring. Partly because speaking a problem helps them organize and clarify a problem.

I do know people who need to talk out loud in order to think, but they don't explain anything while they're doing it. They mostly ask, then answer their own questions. Or they just ramble aimlessly. It's quite literally "thinking out loud."

Blogger Seshep-ankh Atum February 01, 2018 1:57 PM  

"You do not understand what I am"

Oh, but he does:

1.You're wrong
2. self-defensive
3. not particularly popular.
4. You're also a Gamma.
5. A dork....(That's just how dorks like you rationalize your narcissism and your desperate need to show off)
6. A narcissist...(see above)
7. A show off......(see above)

You've been eviscerated. And only one can do that in such an effective manner, The Dark Lord.

Blogger Rashadjin February 01, 2018 2:20 PM  

@Seshep-ankh Atum

See sycophant exhibit A.

Repeats Vox as if his words were gospel. Gives no corroborating support like a dim-bulb who doesn't understand how dialectics work.

Now and again, I get this odd impression that Vox uses sock puppets around here. But that's probably just tools like you throwing off my pattern detection.

Anywho, thanks for making the sycophant point clear.

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 2:25 PM  

I'm making it about you, Vox, because you do have a limited frame when it comes to people, and someone should remind you of it here and there.

No, Rashadjin, you're making it about me because you are a Gamma and that is what Gammas always do.

And I write down logic problems to step out the pieces. It's not a rare observation to see people doing the same sort of thing when talking about problems. Is it really so hard for you to grasp the concept that some people use discussion to think?

No, it's not, particularly for those who can't think well enough to work out all of the steps on their own. But you see, you're observably not intelligent enough to grasp the point that I was making, which is that the narcissistic STEM nerds you are defending do exactly the same thing when they have already worked out the solution to the problem as well as when no one is challenging their conclusion or asking for an explanation.

So, your argument is simply not relevant here. Neither I nor anyone else takes any issue with people discussing problems they are trying to sort out. But that's not what we are talking about, and in your gamma sensitivity, you leaped in to simultaneously a) offer an irrelevant non-defense as well as b) go on the attack to change the subject.

As much as you're a genius in the spectrum that makes you incredibly good at history, you really suck at people, Vox.

That observably isn't true. You are just projecting your own lack of popularity and low social rank. You really need to learn to control your reactions and look before you leap; a little self-control goes a long way when it comes to social interactions.

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 2:29 PM  

Now and again, I get this odd impression that Vox uses sock puppets around here.

Seems... gets this odd impression... Gamma confirmed.

Now you're really reaching.

Blogger Koanic February 01, 2018 2:30 PM  

> then what on Earth do all the STEM nerds feel guilty about? Existing?

A low guilt threshold can be triggered by all sorts of things, just like a low anger, fear or happiness threshold.

Guilt is only one causal factor for nerd overexplanation. It may not be conscious or rational, but it is certainly on display in the appeasing mannerisms of characters such as Leonard and Howard from the Big Bang Theory.

Liar's tells occur as variations from the baseline, and are not useful for evaluating the baseline. E.g. someone who makes little eye contact may be rigidly truthful.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 01, 2018 2:32 PM  

If that is true, then what on Earth do all the STEM nerds feel guilty about? Existing?

Knowing they're not as intelligent and knowledgeable as they pretend to be. People who are secure in their knowledge don't need to obsessively explain minutiae to others who are clearly uninterested and for no discernible purpose. That's my theory anyway.

Anonymous Opus February 01, 2018 2:48 PM  

When I was younger West Ham was my local professional soccer team. It was also local in that most of the players came from the locality - I once went round to Jimmy Greaves house - he was in the garden mowing, to get his autograph; they were like me - it is said after all that West Ham won the World Cup - but now you could not pay me to watch them. I can not relate.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 01, 2018 2:59 PM  

"And I write down logic problems to step out the pieces. It's not a rare observation to see people doing the same sort of thing when talking about problems."

You're not even talking about the same thing. The original context is people trying to start or continue an argument or debate, or impress someone with that cool smart stuff they know.

That is not problem solving, corporate or otherwise.

Neither are games of "gotcha".

Blogger Rashadjin February 01, 2018 3:09 PM  

@VD "...when they have already worked out the solution to the problem as well as when no one is challenging their conclusion or asking for an explanation."

Those (reasonable) assumptions you're focusing in on weren't specified previously. The discussion was:

STEMS guy: we explain for our own benefit (too).
VD: Here's this engineer anecdote. It's all narcissism.
Rashadjin: That's actually a guilt reflex. Here's some other reasons people explain themselves.
VD:Here's the list of factors/motives I'm assuming are conclusive and would mean I'm right, because assumptions, which I will project across all cases because the anecdote is the universe. And you not sharing these assumptions and incredibly limited behavior model means you're wrong because MPAI.

Foul play, Vox. You should be better than this by now. And it's not me who's reaching. You've been projecting like hell all through this.

But since fair's fair, and to give away one thing you don't understand about me:

Rashadjin - "Sin Spirit" or "The spirit born from this era's sin."

I'm a Shadow Projection, you Gamma relapsing twit. I don't give a damn if I'm popular; it's not in the job description.

One thing about Gamma's I didn't fully process through before is what constitutes "backstabby". Part of it is an inability to let go of slights/betrayals that impact perceived social standing.

You've built yourself around your superior intellect, and you've a very hard time coming to grips with its limitations. You've not escaped those old impulses quite yet, Vox.

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 3:34 PM  

Foul play, Vox. You should be better than this by now. And it's not me who's reaching. You've been projecting like hell all through this.

It's always amusing when Gammas run textbook Gamma routines while simultaneously trying to deny it. You're still trying to talk about me rather than the subject at hand. This is what, your fifth or sixth off-topic post, because it is so vitally important to police my behavior.

You do care that you're not popular, it burns you and angers you to even have your low social status and unpopularity noticed. And you're neither the first nor the fiftieth to have run through this same routine. You Gammas pull the same nonsense every single time. It's what you do and who you are.

Blogger Nate73 February 01, 2018 4:02 PM  

Maybe when emailing people I listen to on youtube I should preface the message with "I am a humble student, eager for wisdom. Now could you explain X?". Is that better or worse than the standard "Hello, I love your show/channel/blog! But could you explain X?"?

Anonymous CPEG February 01, 2018 5:42 PM  

"Knowing they're not as intelligent and knowledgeable as they pretend to be. People who are secure in their knowledge don't need to obsessively explain minutiae to others who are clearly uninterested and for no discernible purpose. That's my theory anyway."

I am sure that happens, but consider that there is one group of smart people who DOES typically explain at length the minutiae of their methodology for reaching their conclusions and how you can use that methodology to reach other conclusions, and that group of people is STEM professors in STEM classrooms.

STEM nerds need but the single step of internalizing it as "this is how smart people explain things," and neglecting the distinction of WHICH smart people explaining WHICH things.

Anonymous BBigGayKoranBurner February 01, 2018 6:22 PM  

Now and again, I get this odd impression that Vox uses sock puppets around here. But that's probably just tools like you throwing off my pattern detection.

It's easy enough to trigger spergs to out themselves. Wearing a WHITE LIVES MATTER shirt in crowded public makes a younger version of Barbra Specter appear, who will redpill normies far better than you could

Blogger VD February 01, 2018 6:38 PM  

STEM nerds need but the single step of internalizing it as "this is how smart people explain things," and neglecting the distinction of WHICH smart people explaining WHICH things.

To WHOM, WHEN, and WHY....

Blogger Daniel February 01, 2018 7:56 PM  

No they will never dominate. See brazil national team. Mixed

Anonymous Wooly February 01, 2018 11:57 PM  

VD: The vast majority of people demanding explanations are not seeking to learn, they are seeking to argue.

Yes. The VHIQ bartender where I work asked me, day one, because of some conversation, "Oh!, so you're a believer?" I said, "Yessir." "We're going to have some great debates!"

I said, pointedly, "No. We aren't." And I don't, even though every conversation ends up on his There Is No God fixation, and every day he tries to throw barbs at me about Idiot Christians.

The guy is very intelligent, but he has his demons.

Put it this way: if he ever ends up mass-killing people in a church, I'm not going to be the guy on the news that says, "OMG! I can't believe he did this!" I'm just going to nod, and say, "Yep."

Blogger Rashadjin February 02, 2018 11:46 PM  

Show a little mercy, Vox. I hadn't realized responding directly to the blog owner and the points he raises within a discussion could constitute an off-topic response. You might want to write that rule down somewhere, or you could stop being a petty little Gamma.

Foul play, Vox.

The reason I noted my habit of writing logic problems out was to show solidarity, a bit of kindness, to the good STEM folk you were maliciously and indiscriminately smearing with narcissism, some of whom were engaged with the exchange. So of course you made your banal assumptions, turned that bit of light right back around, and tried to shiv me with it like a little Gamma bitch. Double unfortunate that I don't care about your feeble pokes to my intellect. I'm not the one whose social standing depends on it. This would be you projecting.

Foul play, Vox.

Then there's the sock puppet - Seshep-ankh Atum. Really, I can't believe anyone short of your lame alter-ego trying to drum up the appearance of support could write out this line - "You've been eviscerated. And only one can do that in such an effective manner, The Dark Lord."

Pathetic. The real sycophants around here would like to think they could eviscerate me just the same. Or they would, if you manage to find any delusional enough to think that's what happened here. Then you issued a non-denial deflection, and if there's anything we've learned from pedos, swamp critters and the MSM, a non-denial is the next best thing to an admission of guilt.

Foul play, Vox.

But I was wrong about you, and oh my poor intellectual standing for admitting it. You're not a relapsed Gamma. You never stopped being a Gamma. Congratulations to that, for it looks like you graduated from my Variant A (Crushed Omega) to my Variant B (Narcissistic Omega+ with obsessive-compulsive status insecurities) somewhere along the line.

Which is why there's a Gamma under every rock and in every shadow for you, Vox. Which is why you'll process everything I've written here through the Gamma pattern once more. Because it's what you know best. It's what you are. And for that, it's all you see (projection). Which is part of the reason your students have a hard time figuring out what a Gamma looks like, exactly. Your filter blurs it all to hell.

Also, that 'obsessive-compulsive insecurities about intellectual social status' piece might have something to do with the decline in comment quality around here. Like maybe you drive away all the real competition sooner or later. The upshot is that it's easy to feel condescendingly superior with a small, shallow pond.

But that small, shallow pond should be proud of itself. I had this (comment #30) all prepared to remind the sycophants that you don't give a damn about what they think. That the only reason they're here is to bask in your intellect so you can play Alpha. I mean Sigma. I mean Gamma with carefully edited status insecurities.

But they didn't show up. Maybe it's happenstance, but maybe I underestimated them and was wrong to.

Now where was I? Oh yes.

So I could be trying to take the Alpha Intellect spot on someone else's blog. At least until you spam and ban me like all the other losers who tried.

Or, and bear with me here, Orrrr.... Narcissism attracts me like a wounded little birdie flopping around in front of a kitty kat.

Double down again, Vox. Every word you say, every word you have ever said, is fuel to this fire.

You do not understand what I am.

OpenID paulmurray February 03, 2018 7:33 AM  

Engineers explain things because they enjoy teaching. It's an instinctive male thing to want to pass down the knowledge.

Blogger Rashadjin February 04, 2018 1:57 PM  

Heh. Not even the sock puppet has denied it, and that'd be an irresistible thing to crow over.

This path feels like it's come to an end. The gleam about this place has faded, my hunt is over, and as fun as it's been, I have greater things to become than another voice wandering around this blog. So. Time to be finished with it.

I want the regulars to remember this moment, and any who stumble across these words, because Vox will return to the narcissistic delusion that he is so superior to all you ants that nothing you say is worthy of effecting his thinking (again here, #30). Simply put, humans don't work that way. Even the stupid seeps in after a while, which is why you prune and tend your social circles. You are not better than the people around you because, whether you like it or not, you become the people you choose to have around you.

And returning to that delusion is most likely why Vox hasn't responded to me, why he has, yet again, exited stage left when things go badly for him. It's not a lie if he never admits the moments he was wrong. It's not a lie if the cognitive dissonance runs him off and fuzzes the events out of active memory. Sort of like how sock puppets aren't exactly a lie either.

But not all of him agrees. Like a SJW who projects and amplifies her sins upon the world to minimize and alleviate her own the guilt, I think Vox reflexively calls everyone a liar to alleviate the subliminal guilt from his own tiny process lies. That, and the misanthropy.

In the deleted DarkStream about Moira/The Last Closet, Vox wondered at the "banal" thinking of Corrupted Logos toward which he has taken another step. He probably has his other reasons, his rationalizations, but it appears very likely that the real reason Vox deleted that DarkStream is because he couldn't take the hypocrisy of keeping it, a monument to the failures of IQ, around. The show of intellectual superiority must go on, after all.

I should have predicted this outcome - the 'Exit Stage Left' tactic is such a common one for him (cognitive dissonance is a mean mistress) - but I didn't. Anywho, I believe it appropriate I leave this note.

-

We have been kind and patient with you, vox dei, but all gods die. Even yours. Even you.

Spiritus Sanctus Dei

Blogger Kurt February 06, 2018 9:46 PM  

"I never explain anything." -- Mary Poppins

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